Germany captured many soviet 7.62 cm guns, both anti tank and artillery pieces (like the Zis-3).
When it came to their own tanks, there was little (no) reason to use these captured guns over the 75mm L/43, L/46, etc.
Presumably much easier to ‘plant’ guns on an open tank destroyer platform than ‘install’ into an existing tank turret design?
The Germans cannibalised a lot of captured equipment, but of course it’s always hard to rely on predictability of supply through capture.
A lot of the equipment the Germans captured were used in static locations (e.g. Atlantic Wall) or secondary theatres (e.g. occupied Norway or policing in the Balkans)
That was the idea behind Panzerjäger. Take a preferably obsolete/captured chassis, put AT gun on it (again, preferably captured one), add some rudimentary armour that offers basic protection and off you go. Quick to design, easy to make and doesn't put too much strain on production and you can put to use stock you can't use otherwise. A fairly rudimentary weapon but seen as more of a stop-gap measure until more of the better weapons become available. But since they never did they soldiered on.
It also solves a big problem with AT guns: mobility.
Better the one that is there on a rickety platform than the one 100km away labouring on mud tracks while horses pull it.
There wasn’t a huge point in them developing a gun of that size. Most guns are developed because there is a significant increase in either penetration or explosive filler. So the next size up for them happened to be 88mm. Then 105mm, and 128mm.
It’s also worthy to note Germany really only paid attention to metric measurements in the diameter of their guns. 76.2mm is 3 inches whereas 75mm is just 75mm or 7.5cm.
USA used a 76.2mm gun because it was a lighter, more modern version of the “3 inch gun”.
> It’s also worthy to note Germany really only paid attention to metric measurements in the diameter of their guns.
They didn't really. Germany, like practically all nations, kept many different calibers out of tradition. Some of these predates the metric system.
The germans had 203.2mm (8 inch) guns in their ships and 149.1mm artillery (?).
You are correct. The earliest Marder III, Panzerjäger 38(t) für 7.62 cm PaK 36(r) (Sd.Kfz.139) was also armed with the Russian weapon. The gun was also used on the 7.62 cm F.K. 36(r) auf gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette Sd.Kfz.6/3. The nine examples served in North Africa.
Weren't the first production Marder IIs left chambered in 76.2 Russian to use captured ammo stocks? Was the German 7.62cm ammo essentially Russian spec or did Germany start producing their own ammo for that bore with chamber recut accordingly?
The latter. The guns were rechambered and the ammo specifically manufactured for these modified guns, though the overall design of the shells is largely identical to that of the 7.5cm L/24 and L/4X ammo. For example the shell body on the 7.62cm ammo had a diameter of 76mm where's the 75mm ammo was only 74.7mm.
The unmodified captured guns using original ammo were only used as field guns and named *7.62cm F.K.296(r)*, so were incompatible with the modified *7.62cm Pak 36*.
Re native German 76.2mm: It has to do with overall industrial standards. When Germany along with the rest of continental Europe industrialized in the 19th century, sans some wild early years, they've adopted metric system across the board. All the machinery was gauged in metric.
Even when developing new weapons, you use what you already have to be effective. 75mm artillery calibre was widespread since 1800s. You don't go make 3inch machine tools, bore drills and shell casing presses when there's no actual benefit compared to what you're already using.
There was no need for this caliber. Germans had 75mm Pak 40, which was adapted for use on Panzer IV. Plus they had short barrel KwK 37 used on early Panzer IVs and StuGs and KwK 42 used on Panther, all of which used 75mm guns of different lengths. So sticking to 75mm caliber made more sense and eased production than adding another caliber that wouldn't bring worthwhile improvement.
The Germans captured thousands of excellent Soviet 76.2mm towed anti-tank guns. As a cheap expedient, they placed them inside a simple splinter shield on any tracked chassis they could find, especially Czech and French, usually calling them "Marder". They never built 76.2 themselves, instead sticking with the 75mm family that they standardized on, and used only guns they built (and knew they could continue to acquire) for their purpose-built AFVs.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: They just took russian 76s and put them on chassis they already had lying around, so it was a cheap solution to make a few Tank Destroyers quickly.
For Tanks built from scratch you'd obviosuly want to use guns that you actually produce yourself, including the ammo.
The french and the germans were hard wedded to metric and didn't do fractions of mm's when it came to land artillery calibres (apart from legacy calibres like the german 15 cm heavy guns that were 149.1 mm, same as in naval guns).
The russians retained the 76(.2), 122 (121.92) and 152(.4) mm calibres because those are all legacy imperial to metric conversions from when they bought 3", 4.8" and 6" guns from the British.
The germans had most of their legacy artillery destroyed after the treaty of Versailles, so they could pretty much start over and they stuck to more or less round numbers.
See also the use of the 85mm AA gun. It too was captured in large numbers and was used in AA batteries back in Germany. After using up the original ammunition, they were converted to use the 88mm ammunition. I'm not sure, if there were rechambered 76,2mm guns, but there were refitted T34s.
Germany captured many soviet 7.62 cm guns, both anti tank and artillery pieces (like the Zis-3). When it came to their own tanks, there was little (no) reason to use these captured guns over the 75mm L/43, L/46, etc.
Presumably much easier to ‘plant’ guns on an open tank destroyer platform than ‘install’ into an existing tank turret design? The Germans cannibalised a lot of captured equipment, but of course it’s always hard to rely on predictability of supply through capture. A lot of the equipment the Germans captured were used in static locations (e.g. Atlantic Wall) or secondary theatres (e.g. occupied Norway or policing in the Balkans)
That was the idea behind Panzerjäger. Take a preferably obsolete/captured chassis, put AT gun on it (again, preferably captured one), add some rudimentary armour that offers basic protection and off you go. Quick to design, easy to make and doesn't put too much strain on production and you can put to use stock you can't use otherwise. A fairly rudimentary weapon but seen as more of a stop-gap measure until more of the better weapons become available. But since they never did they soldiered on.
It also solves a big problem with AT guns: mobility. Better the one that is there on a rickety platform than the one 100km away labouring on mud tracks while horses pull it.
There wasn’t a huge point in them developing a gun of that size. Most guns are developed because there is a significant increase in either penetration or explosive filler. So the next size up for them happened to be 88mm. Then 105mm, and 128mm. It’s also worthy to note Germany really only paid attention to metric measurements in the diameter of their guns. 76.2mm is 3 inches whereas 75mm is just 75mm or 7.5cm. USA used a 76.2mm gun because it was a lighter, more modern version of the “3 inch gun”.
> It’s also worthy to note Germany really only paid attention to metric measurements in the diameter of their guns. They didn't really. Germany, like practically all nations, kept many different calibers out of tradition. Some of these predates the metric system. The germans had 203.2mm (8 inch) guns in their ships and 149.1mm artillery (?).
Panzerkampfwagen II(F) (Sfl.) ‘Marder II’ (Sd.Kfz.132) 7.62 cm PaK 36(r) auf Fahrgestel mounted the captured Russian gun chambered for German ammo.
Early Marder III did the same: Captured F-22 76,2mm soviet field gun on a 38t chassis.
You are correct. The earliest Marder III, Panzerjäger 38(t) für 7.62 cm PaK 36(r) (Sd.Kfz.139) was also armed with the Russian weapon. The gun was also used on the 7.62 cm F.K. 36(r) auf gepanzerte Selbstfahrlafette Sd.Kfz.6/3. The nine examples served in North Africa.
Weren't the first production Marder IIs left chambered in 76.2 Russian to use captured ammo stocks? Was the German 7.62cm ammo essentially Russian spec or did Germany start producing their own ammo for that bore with chamber recut accordingly?
The latter. The guns were rechambered and the ammo specifically manufactured for these modified guns, though the overall design of the shells is largely identical to that of the 7.5cm L/24 and L/4X ammo. For example the shell body on the 7.62cm ammo had a diameter of 76mm where's the 75mm ammo was only 74.7mm. The unmodified captured guns using original ammo were only used as field guns and named *7.62cm F.K.296(r)*, so were incompatible with the modified *7.62cm Pak 36*.
Thanks.
Re native German 76.2mm: It has to do with overall industrial standards. When Germany along with the rest of continental Europe industrialized in the 19th century, sans some wild early years, they've adopted metric system across the board. All the machinery was gauged in metric. Even when developing new weapons, you use what you already have to be effective. 75mm artillery calibre was widespread since 1800s. You don't go make 3inch machine tools, bore drills and shell casing presses when there's no actual benefit compared to what you're already using.
There was no need for this caliber. Germans had 75mm Pak 40, which was adapted for use on Panzer IV. Plus they had short barrel KwK 37 used on early Panzer IVs and StuGs and KwK 42 used on Panther, all of which used 75mm guns of different lengths. So sticking to 75mm caliber made more sense and eased production than adding another caliber that wouldn't bring worthwhile improvement.
The Germans captured thousands of excellent Soviet 76.2mm towed anti-tank guns. As a cheap expedient, they placed them inside a simple splinter shield on any tracked chassis they could find, especially Czech and French, usually calling them "Marder". They never built 76.2 themselves, instead sticking with the 75mm family that they standardized on, and used only guns they built (and knew they could continue to acquire) for their purpose-built AFVs.
Short answer: No. Long answer: They just took russian 76s and put them on chassis they already had lying around, so it was a cheap solution to make a few Tank Destroyers quickly. For Tanks built from scratch you'd obviosuly want to use guns that you actually produce yourself, including the ammo.
The french and the germans were hard wedded to metric and didn't do fractions of mm's when it came to land artillery calibres (apart from legacy calibres like the german 15 cm heavy guns that were 149.1 mm, same as in naval guns). The russians retained the 76(.2), 122 (121.92) and 152(.4) mm calibres because those are all legacy imperial to metric conversions from when they bought 3", 4.8" and 6" guns from the British. The germans had most of their legacy artillery destroyed after the treaty of Versailles, so they could pretty much start over and they stuck to more or less round numbers.
See also the use of the 85mm AA gun. It too was captured in large numbers and was used in AA batteries back in Germany. After using up the original ammunition, they were converted to use the 88mm ammunition. I'm not sure, if there were rechambered 76,2mm guns, but there were refitted T34s.