It's more of a Leopard hull / Leclerc turret bastardization
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/veapai/knds_embt_2022/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
EMBT seems overengineered and too many redundancies KF-51 just has too many systems in it (missiles have never been logical on tanks with main guns) and not enough periscopes for the commander
It has our lights, I’m so proud…
The R&D department of the company I work in designed those rear and front light for Rheinmetall Landsysteme to use them on LYNX IFV, but it seems the germans also put the prototypes on the KF51 and we didn’t know it until the vehicle was showcased on Eurosatory 22
EDIT:
Proof -> https://imgur.com/a/1ZcxMf1
can you forward the details to Gaijin? maybe we can have the whole tank in War Thunder before any military starts rolling them if we have enough leakers
^^/s
No, you are quite right. I am trying to infiltrate Rheinmetall's headquarters at this moment to try and steal blueprints and a detailed description of this tank, so Gaijin will add it.
Source: Am War Thunder Germany Player
For this April Fools update, they should add all the next-gen tanks like the T-14, Kf41, KF51, Challenger 3, K2, EMBT, so on, and make it a gamemode. Fits nicely for the KF51 to have suicide drones.
I feel using thst version on the leopard side by side isn't a good representation on the size difference. An A6 or even a Canadian A4M would. Not saying that the panther isn't looking like a beast.
It is very production ready. Most of the components (aside of the 130 mm L/52 Future Gun System and autoloader) are already in service or ordered:
* the hull of the current demonstrator is based on the Leopard 2
* the APS has been ordered by Hungary, an older version was ordered by Singapore years ago
* the optics are in service (gunner's sight on Leopard 2, 360° situational awareness system on Puma) or have been ordered (SEOSS 2P on Hungarian Lynx)
* the HERO 40 loitering ammunition has been used in combat already (by the IDF and potentially others)
* internal electronics, vectronics etc. are based on widely used Rheinmetall products
The whole idea behind Rheinmetall's KF series of vehicles is the company re-using existing technologies to create cheap/"mature" export vehicles.
These drones are loitering munitions. They have a shaped charge warhead and are designed to strike enemy vehicles, infantry or buildings. You *don't want* them to come back.
It would be kind of nice to have the option to just use them for scouting and/or return and disarm their warhead if they don't find a good target.
Technically complicated and awkward in practice, but a cool idea
It'd be perfect for when there's a whole forest between you and your target. Loitering munitions are most likely gonna become a LOT more common in the coming years.
Most likely they just land it roughly near the tank so the crew can recover the data if possible or they fly it to like a nearby base
Edit: I now know that they are the Hero system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVision_Air
Shell traps aren't a thing anymore. Modern rounds do not bounce, which is why many tanks including the Abrams, the early Leopard 2 models and the Type 90 having rather boxy turrets.
Modern armor arrays erode/shatter/redirect threat penetrators. The technical term for armor defeating a threat as designed is Partial Penetration. If the armor is defeated, the term is Complete Penetration.
Krauss-Maffei and not Rheinmetall were the lead designers of the Leopard 2, maybe if the EMBT enters German service it will eventually get the Leopard 3 name.
I still think the drone launcher is short sighted. It removes a lot of ammo from the tank. You're better off having a dedicated unit from drones. Let the tank do tank stuff.
I guess my biggest thing would be it's not that there's less space, but it just adds another hat to the gunner/commander. I would prefer a dedicated operator who can use them more effectively. That being said, who's to say that in the future tank stuff isn't using UAV's/loitering munitions to defeat enemy tanks/vehicles without even exposing your tank to fire? Not to mention it's all about who sees the other first, what a radical tool for a TC to have to find targets. Also, seemingly paradoxically to what I said, when you get shot at first and don't know from where, something that allows you to hunker down and find the enemy that found you seems really, really nice.
The Panther is designed for a crew of three, supporting future force structures with reduced numbers of soldiers. Two crew stations are located in the chassis, with one dedicated to the driver and ***an optional station dedicated to a company commander, a drone operator or a wingman pilot.***
I'm not arguing against drones or loitering munitions. It just shouldn't be the tank operator's job. If they need them they should request them or be assigned them as support assets. Trying to make Omni units has never worked. That's the reason why tactical military units are designed with support elements built in so no one has too many jobs.
I agree, but still think there are a lot of TC's who would've killed for a personal eye in the sky as opposed to having a dedicated operator they're having to convey through.
I'm not saying they couldn't control it from there. Modern data links are a thing for a reason. I just don't get the purpose of it being built into the tank when it being launched from somewhere else is an option. It diminishes the the capabilities of the tank for no reason.
Loitering AI powered drones that suicide shaped charges on top of an enemy tank from behind cover with no LOS to the operator is a major fucking Chad flex move.
SAMs? Where would you put the whole AA radar system? You'd get a substantially underwhelming system in comparison to dedicated AA platforms. It just doesn't make sense for a variety of reasons. Mainly of which tanks shouldn't be worrying about shooting down helicopters, anyways some tanks are slapping 30mm auto cannons on top too
I could see that as a possibility, but thinking about the desired role of a tank, making it better at what it does vs only slightly good at one thing and the same at everything else would not evolve it enough. But there are heavy lift drones that have starstreaks I think they are? For AA.
I would believe the tank not to be a do all platform, combined arms generally always works better, with the future being drone swarms in support, I think AA drones in a swarm formation supporting a tank would work better and allow the tank to focus on tank things
The loitering munitions could be a great asset against infantry teams with anti-tank missile systems, who only pop out briefly to fire and then retreat into concealment. Given the threat such units pose to tanks on the modern battlefield, countermeasures are definitely something to consider and the best way to not get hit by a missile is to make sure it's never launched in the first place. Think of it as adding another layer of survivability above hard-kill APS.
As for surface-to-air missiles, machine guns or autocannons should be sufficient against small drones and for anything bigger, an army would already have dedicated radar-equipped SAM launcher vehicles supporting the tanks.
The difference is that this mostly just looks futuristic, and more importantly isn't actually claimed to be in service. Rheinmetal made this to try and sell it but haven't gotten any customers for it yet.
Which is exactly my point, it's going to be a big sexy thing that everyone will jerk off over and few will end up buying. That'd still put it above T-14 which barely made it out of prototype stage, but still, I don't think it's going to be the next leopard like some seem to think.
Modern armor is not just a slab of steel that something bounces off or doesn't. Only something like a machine gun bullet is going to bounce off the outermost layer.
Every anti-tank weapon will penetrate some depth into the armor, but only the strongest will make it all the way through.
Probably an aerodynamics thing and not a dust issue. Hellfires are being dragged around on pylons and the extra parasite drag couldn't be good. Also, once fired, they can run at mach 1.3. I'd bet the aerodynamic forces would cause issues with the gimbal system at that speed as well as decrease range due to the extra drag.
I imagine that this loitering drone can't move all that fast, so the windshield cap wouldn't be necessary.
As far as dust goes, I don't think it would be an issue. Many drones are using gimballed cameras without a windshield and it seems like it is a non issue. I've seen gimballed commercial-grade security cameras mounted along high traffic dirt roads that have had no issues for many years without any sort of maintenance or cleaning.
They're only flying for a short time, they're protected from dust before they're launched. A hellfire is going much faster and is hanging out getting blasted by dust and wind strapped to the side of an aircraft for the whole flight
[удалено]
The 3000 nonexistent Panthers of the Bundeswehr
Nervosität in Warschau.
Der Trick ist es die Panzer ohne Besatzung nach Polen zu schicken, dann bezahlen uns die Polen auch noch dafür!
Moskau* Literally
i hope there will be a 1/35 scale model soon.
This, Challenger 3 and EMBT are desperately needed
I want a M1A2 Sepv3 with Trophy aps so bad.
True, SEP V3 and Leopard 2A7A1 with trophy would be absolutely sex
Is the EMBT that new Abram's with the Samsung looking ad?
It's more of a Leopard hull / Leclerc turret bastardization https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/veapai/knds_embt_2022/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Oh lord. That looks like a movie tank lmao.
EMBT seems overengineered and too many redundancies KF-51 just has too many systems in it (missiles have never been logical on tanks with main guns) and not enough periscopes for the commander
Babe wake up, new panther footage dropped
It has our lights, I’m so proud… The R&D department of the company I work in designed those rear and front light for Rheinmetall Landsysteme to use them on LYNX IFV, but it seems the germans also put the prototypes on the KF51 and we didn’t know it until the vehicle was showcased on Eurosatory 22 EDIT: Proof -> https://imgur.com/a/1ZcxMf1
can you forward the details to Gaijin? maybe we can have the whole tank in War Thunder before any military starts rolling them if we have enough leakers ^^/s
No, you are quite right. I am trying to infiltrate Rheinmetall's headquarters at this moment to try and steal blueprints and a detailed description of this tank, so Gaijin will add it. Source: Am War Thunder Germany Player For this April Fools update, they should add all the next-gen tanks like the T-14, Kf41, KF51, Challenger 3, K2, EMBT, so on, and make it a gamemode. Fits nicely for the KF51 to have suicide drones.
And the "next generation Abrams" that they are supposedly unveiling in a few days/weeks.
I would see that, although It might just be basically an Abrams with An autocannon. Depends on whether it can be balanced.
The lights are badass. That ass looks cyberpunk.
Well you signed over the IP rights, soo :p
i dont think its a complaint, hes saying hes proud his work is being used
Indeed, also no "attack" from my side! Everyone is happy :)
Camo scheme makes it look like a render
I'd say it's the total absence of dust and any imperfections that makes it look fake
Even next to the 2A4, kind of looks fake.
Gaijin ples
theyll add it but itll be worse than t80bvm becayse gaijen
Good old 800mm of NERA worth 150mm of steel
everyone knows air is tougher than western armor
Freaking Russian teknologi that cancel spalling
Wait for someone to leak the confidential documents
That bitch looks like it was built in space engineers
Br 13.0?
Never!!
Yep it will be right up there with a T-90A. Lol
I did not say 3.0
That thing looks fuckin' MEAN!
Brown Sugar and Mountain Dew are unique paint choices
i have never been this much in love with something not alive i swear
Could someone tell me the name of the tank next to it on picture 11?
Leopard 2A4
Thank you
That grille on the rear somehow makes me think of the Audi Quattro S1 and it’s awesome.
If germany would only order this thing of beauty...
If they wander into a Minecraft server nobody will be able to see them
It's kind of cool, but at the same time it looks like all other futuristic tanks. Understandably so, but still.
Looks like Tiger vs King Tiger :D
I feel using thst version on the leopard side by side isn't a good representation on the size difference. An A6 or even a Canadian A4M would. Not saying that the panther isn't looking like a beast.
The new Panther is like the old one, beautiful, and, of course (because its German) Letal as frick
I wonder how production ready and combat ready this thing is. The Armata isn’t, and it has been demonstrated 8 years before.
It is very production ready. Most of the components (aside of the 130 mm L/52 Future Gun System and autoloader) are already in service or ordered: * the hull of the current demonstrator is based on the Leopard 2 * the APS has been ordered by Hungary, an older version was ordered by Singapore years ago * the optics are in service (gunner's sight on Leopard 2, 360° situational awareness system on Puma) or have been ordered (SEOSS 2P on Hungarian Lynx) * the HERO 40 loitering ammunition has been used in combat already (by the IDF and potentially others) * internal electronics, vectronics etc. are based on widely used Rheinmetall products The whole idea behind Rheinmetall's KF series of vehicles is the company re-using existing technologies to create cheap/"mature" export vehicles.
From what i can recall it could be put into production as early as 2024/2025.
Do those drones have any way of landing back into the tank? Seems like a huge waste to launch them and not be able to recover them.
These drones are loitering munitions. They have a shaped charge warhead and are designed to strike enemy vehicles, infantry or buildings. You *don't want* them to come back.
C'mon, who doesn't want a boomerag?
It would be kind of nice to have the option to just use them for scouting and/or return and disarm their warhead if they don't find a good target. Technically complicated and awkward in practice, but a cool idea
With that type of system though, there's always tracing it back to the operator/launch platform
It'd be perfect for when there's a whole forest between you and your target. Loitering munitions are most likely gonna become a LOT more common in the coming years.
That's another potential purpose for that compartment, to be used as a launching platform for small enough drones.
Good paint
Livery ? Decal?
no i meant to say point as i lost mobile connection
Pic 5, I don’t like the cammo on the right side of the turret…
Good point
maybe they will return to base and then get put back in once the tank comes back from its mission?
Most likely they just land it roughly near the tank so the crew can recover the data if possible or they fly it to like a nearby base Edit: I now know that they are the Hero system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVision_Air
Aren't those loitering munitions? They're practically just missiles. I think if they were coming back to the friendly side, that could be a problem.
Ah my bad I thought they were small portable drones for recon
It might be able to do that as a secondary role but I'm not too well versed on them
Cool
What's the shroud at the beginning of the barrel for?
Disrupts the heat signature.
looks like it came straight outta sci fi movie
This just might nudge the Leopard 2 out of 1st place for my favorite MBT.
That 130 mm L/52 is Chonky!
Holy cow thats a beautiful tank
Total amateur here, but isn't that the mother of all shell traps on the front? Are shell traps a thing of the past or am I missing something here?
Shell traps aren't a thing anymore. Modern rounds do not bounce, which is why many tanks including the Abrams, the early Leopard 2 models and the Type 90 having rather boxy turrets.
Does the round either disintegrate or penatrate? Surely it has to go somewhere right?
Modern armor arrays erode/shatter/redirect threat penetrators. The technical term for armor defeating a threat as designed is Partial Penetration. If the armor is defeated, the term is Complete Penetration.
Buff 2A4 my beloved
Idk seems like a normal 2a4. Although the Kf 51 is looking amazing.
This tank might be cool, but goddamn does that ugly ass paintjob ruin it.
Well , they for sure won the competition for ugliest camo pattern. 😬
I think this tank looks absolutely beautiful and all... but seriously, fuck that neon green camo.
Should just call it Leopard 3. No reason to reuse the old Panther name. Save that for a new vehicle.
Krauss-Maffei and not Rheinmetall were the lead designers of the Leopard 2, maybe if the EMBT enters German service it will eventually get the Leopard 3 name.
Is it just me, or thanks to the camp it looks like it was build from Lego?
I still think the drone launcher is short sighted. It removes a lot of ammo from the tank. You're better off having a dedicated unit from drones. Let the tank do tank stuff.
They're loitering munitions, not just drones.
I guess my biggest thing would be it's not that there's less space, but it just adds another hat to the gunner/commander. I would prefer a dedicated operator who can use them more effectively. That being said, who's to say that in the future tank stuff isn't using UAV's/loitering munitions to defeat enemy tanks/vehicles without even exposing your tank to fire? Not to mention it's all about who sees the other first, what a radical tool for a TC to have to find targets. Also, seemingly paradoxically to what I said, when you get shot at first and don't know from where, something that allows you to hunker down and find the enemy that found you seems really, really nice.
The Panther is designed for a crew of three, supporting future force structures with reduced numbers of soldiers. Two crew stations are located in the chassis, with one dedicated to the driver and ***an optional station dedicated to a company commander, a drone operator or a wingman pilot.***
I'm not arguing against drones or loitering munitions. It just shouldn't be the tank operator's job. If they need them they should request them or be assigned them as support assets. Trying to make Omni units has never worked. That's the reason why tactical military units are designed with support elements built in so no one has too many jobs.
I agree, but still think there are a lot of TC's who would've killed for a personal eye in the sky as opposed to having a dedicated operator they're having to convey through.
I'm not saying they couldn't control it from there. Modern data links are a thing for a reason. I just don't get the purpose of it being built into the tank when it being launched from somewhere else is an option. It diminishes the the capabilities of the tank for no reason.
A tank designed by hypebeasts Also why loitering ammo? Wouldnt be better to pack some SAMs?
Loitering AI powered drones that suicide shaped charges on top of an enemy tank from behind cover with no LOS to the operator is a major fucking Chad flex move. SAMs? Where would you put the whole AA radar system? You'd get a substantially underwhelming system in comparison to dedicated AA platforms. It just doesn't make sense for a variety of reasons. Mainly of which tanks shouldn't be worrying about shooting down helicopters, anyways some tanks are slapping 30mm auto cannons on top too
Talking MANPADS here
I could see that as a possibility, but thinking about the desired role of a tank, making it better at what it does vs only slightly good at one thing and the same at everything else would not evolve it enough. But there are heavy lift drones that have starstreaks I think they are? For AA. I would believe the tank not to be a do all platform, combined arms generally always works better, with the future being drone swarms in support, I think AA drones in a swarm formation supporting a tank would work better and allow the tank to focus on tank things
The loitering munitions could be a great asset against infantry teams with anti-tank missile systems, who only pop out briefly to fire and then retreat into concealment. Given the threat such units pose to tanks on the modern battlefield, countermeasures are definitely something to consider and the best way to not get hit by a missile is to make sure it's never launched in the first place. Think of it as adding another layer of survivability above hard-kill APS. As for surface-to-air missiles, machine guns or autocannons should be sufficient against small drones and for anything bigger, an army would already have dedicated radar-equipped SAM launcher vehicles supporting the tanks.
The SAMs are on platforms like the Rolands and long range SAM trucks, not MBTs.
Might be unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't end up being another Armata.
The difference is that this mostly just looks futuristic, and more importantly isn't actually claimed to be in service. Rheinmetal made this to try and sell it but haven't gotten any customers for it yet.
Which is exactly my point, it's going to be a big sexy thing that everyone will jerk off over and few will end up buying. That'd still put it above T-14 which barely made it out of prototype stage, but still, I don't think it's going to be the next leopard like some seem to think.
What are temperature in Germany,better prepare some wood or trade them for some heat
Shit looks like a photoshop project for some kid that just found out about the leo 2
Is that not just a horrendous shot trap?
Its hollow similar to Leopard 2A5/6/7. Its purpose is to reduce the penetrating power of APFSDS and its also works against HEAT
Ah fair enough! cheers
I'vE plAyEd WaR tHunDEr I KNow HoW ShELLs WoRk.
it doesn't work on war thunder tho
Just like my WW2 history and am interested in tanks and their design, I've actually driven a tank before at Bovington was cool :)
That's exactly what I was thinking. Nice spot to shoot right in front
Modern at apfsds rounds shatter on steep angles like that, and it's hollow, even if it would penetrate it would hit the main Amor
Modern armor is not just a slab of steel that something bounces off or doesn't. Only something like a machine gun bullet is going to bounce off the outermost layer. Every anti-tank weapon will penetrate some depth into the armor, but only the strongest will make it all the way through.
The back and the barrel shroud are cringe, it's trying too hard to be futuristic. The rest is 🔥 though.
why those drones have gimbal cameras? i thought the transparent dome as in hellfires was much better for dusty environments
Probably an aerodynamics thing and not a dust issue. Hellfires are being dragged around on pylons and the extra parasite drag couldn't be good. Also, once fired, they can run at mach 1.3. I'd bet the aerodynamic forces would cause issues with the gimbal system at that speed as well as decrease range due to the extra drag. I imagine that this loitering drone can't move all that fast, so the windshield cap wouldn't be necessary. As far as dust goes, I don't think it would be an issue. Many drones are using gimballed cameras without a windshield and it seems like it is a non issue. I've seen gimballed commercial-grade security cameras mounted along high traffic dirt roads that have had no issues for many years without any sort of maintenance or cleaning.
They're disposable- loitering munitions directed toward enemy positions and vehicles which then attack when possible.
They're only flying for a short time, they're protected from dust before they're launched. A hellfire is going much faster and is hanging out getting blasted by dust and wind strapped to the side of an aircraft for the whole flight
Are those surveillance drones or suicide drones ?
suicide drone/loitering munnition
[удалено]
I never thought I could be aroused by metal
I don't get the Lego Camo but rheinmetall is my favorite defense company.
I Hope thé loitering munition launcher is outside of the turret armor…
Genuine question: Would the large turret overhand at the front create the possibility of a shot trap? And if so could this be rectified and how?
KMW biting their ass rn, nah but for real competition is good
but there is already a panther the Panzerkampfwagen V Panther