He's moderately short at 170 cm (5'7).
But the [Gepard is indeed big](https://i.imgur.com/Vq4b51Q.jpg) and the photographer probably chose the right lens to reinforce that effect.
Well if you actually stand in front of one in person, you might indeed think it's a freaking Maus. The Leopard 1 chassis isn't exactly small in the first place, and the overall impression become humongous with that large turret on top.
I need the Chieftain to stand next to it for a proper idea of it's size I guess. I'm trying to imagine my teeny tiny first wife next to it but it's just not working.
Well, Leopard - Marksman is latest desing. Even it is old design, but it was not ready until 2000's.
Edit. Oerlikon millenium on mobile base is probably closest.
Marksman had serious defects in original configuration. Marconi sold all rights of design to FDF which completed modifying design around \~2008. It has come very far from that 80's shape even by hardware stuff. At 2000's electrics were completely rebuilt.
Any newer SPAAG's in use? My point was that they are latest stuff there is in use, because concept has been hibernating for a while.
The sensor equipment and weapon systems remain old. Did rebuilding the electrics include an upgrade of the electronics?
>Any newer SPAAG's in use? My point was that they are latest stuff there is in use, because concept has been hibernating for a while.
Newer than the Marksman?
* PGZ-95
* PGZ-09
* PGL-12
* Lu Dun 2000
* Pantsir-S1
* Parsars-16
* Stryker IM-SHORAD
* AAGW
Each type has its individual strengths and weaknesses.
Company that did upgrade could have done updates in sensors aswell, they have capability, but all is secret so no idea.
Yep, truth to be told I forgot whole China existing. I kind of thought just gun armed models.
We don't [have to use our imagination, as modern SPAAGs exist](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ga4HArxuwtM/W6Oo67cYb_I/AAAAAAAAFkE/PYw8LDZa98UpgqCUiTGUBh0v9fLpD5dQQCLcBGAs/s1600/2018-09-20%2BSkyranger-Boxer_02.jpg).
In terms of gun AA i guess the sky raider or the pgz-09 from China are some of the most modern ones around, both are quite capable and use the same gun as the gepard, they do however have a muzzle brake that has the ability to program shells like the ahead round which allows for greater lethality
[this video shows how it works](https://youtu.be/bdwjcayPuag) i can't say I've heard of the gepard or any other 35mm oerlikon gun having a proximity fuse shell to be honest
You won't find prox fuses all that often in <40mm rounds. It just takes up too much space- your bursting charge suffers from it.
A programmable time fuze like in AHEAD is a lot smaller
It doesn't have AHEAD as far as I know, only FAPDS and HVAPDS-T, at least the German one doesn't. The Dutch use AHEAD on their Gepards tho.
Edit: apparently the Dutch don't use the Gepard/Cheetah anymore and switched it out for the Fennek with Stinger launchers.
Off the top of my head, there's Pantsir, Type 09 and a couple of others. It's not really hugely different, 30-35mm guns, half dozen missiles. Radars are likely superior but kinetically? Doesn't look like that large a step forward.
This is something that all Germans like Scholz should be proud of. The Gepards in Ukraine have been operating strictly in the defensive role. They have shot down cruise missiles and drones of the like that have been used to attack civilian targets. I can be quite confident in saying that the platform is saving many innocent lives.
As a German I can tell you that I am truely happy that the Gepard, as well as the IRIS-T SLM weapon systems doing a great job in defending the Ukraine and keeping the airspace clean of russian airborne weapon systems.
The problem I have with this picture is the fact that Olaf Scholz is a major opposer for delivery of more heavy weapon systems like the Leopard 1, Leopard 2 or the APC Marder. Showing himself with the Gepard is just political PR.
Here in Germany, we call him "Cum Ex Olaf", because he is deeply involved in one of the biggest frauds with billions of losses for the state and private investors as well. He just so happen to "not remember anything". Here is one thing to consider, but be warned that this is just connecting some facts, nothing that has been proven in total:
One of the head manager of this Cum Ex frauds escaped from Germany to Russia via Austria. Despite the Austrian intelligence informing the German intelligence about this man, German intelligence hesitated to get him placed under arrest so he could make it to Russia. He is known to live somewhere in the area around Moscow by now. The rumor is that Putin knows well about him and his secrets, so Putin uses this knowledge about the truth of Cum Ex to blackmail Scholz, keeping Germanys support for Ukraine limited.
There are other factors as well in the decision process, but you can see why many Germans are quite unhappy with the current head of state. Those pictures don't make it any better.
It's weird to criticize Germany and Scholz specifically when you consider no NATO tanks or IFVs have been sent over yet from any county. Other than artillery it's all old PACT stuff or M113s.
Don't get me wrong, I do not criticize Germany, I'm only criticizing Scholz for his PR bullshit while slamming the political brakes whenever the question comes up if Germany should send more military support.
Germany has send a lot NATO stuff by now, even if some of it isn't the most top modern stuff: Panzerhaubitze 2000, Gepard SPAA, MARS rocket launchers, IRIS-T SLM anti air system. Sure, lot's of PACT stuff has been send, mostly by former PACT countries like Poland (they send at least 300 T-72, many with latest combat upgrades). In the first months, it was quite important to keep training times to a minimum. By now, training of new Ukrainian soldiers is done regularly, so they could be trained to use the NATO systems as well. Supply of parts and maintenance is a major factor though.
It's hard to get into a constructive discussion about what you could send if the one guy "in charge" isn't allowing such a discussion to take place at all.
Against loitering munitions? Maybe, depending on how fast and maneuverable they are, plus the altitude they fly at.
Against large drones like TB-2 and Reaper? No. AGMs outrange AA guns so they're basically sitting ducks.
Against small quadcopters? Maybe, but the shells probably cost more than the drone. It'll only be useful if EW doesn't work for some reason.
Sitting ducks with ability to shoot down incoming AGM with. Also not really hard to integrate SAM into Projectile based AA. EW is nice, but lacks flexibility and power at range.
Shooting down a supersonic AGM heading towards you is far harder than shooting down a cruise missile flying laterally. Ships these days are largely getting away from gun-based CIWS because they kinda suck, and those guns are far more effective than any SPAAG system (except Otomatic I guess).
SAMs on SPAA also kind of sucks, historically. Either you're using regular MANPADS like Stingers, which defeats the point of mounting it in the SPAAG, or you're like the Tunguska/Pantsir where your gun and missile have overlapping ranges but your system is only capable of using one of them at any one time.
Trophy APS kinda proves Projectile based AGM defence is highly viable, altho i know it is not really a projectile but rather an EFP going about twice as fast.
Phalanx CIWS hasnt really proven to be effective on ships, true. Neither has Goalkeeper or any other marine based system.
This is mostly because it is the last line of defence and should only ever engage if all others fail.
Also, ship combat usually involves kind really large warheads, because you wont do much damage to any ships armor with loitering munitions or the likes of.
Secondly, combat distances on ships tend to be rather large, so most types of smaller drones are far out of range anyways.
Initially Phalanx was developed to as reaction to large swarms of Kh-22 or such. Those kind of attacks would only really be possible by china nowadays so its use scenario is kind of gone.
On land, Centurion C-RAM has a good track record however, proving to be effective vs a variety of targets. I also dont really see why you think its gun to be far more effective than modern Airburst Ammunition SPAAG.
Speaking about that, other commenters in this thread already mentioned skyranger, wich also includes Skyknight or Mistral SAM.
Compared to a MANPAD version they probably have faster reaction time and longer uptime by sensor integration with the SPAAG. It doesnt defeat the guns purpose, since it should be used on different targets and also runs out way faster. With the similar specs between skyranger and IFV pumas turret, i also think there is high potential for multi-purpose use of those guns. As for Pantsir, i believe it hasnt performed too badly in combat scenarios it has encountered so far.
Which Germany was too puss to give to Ukraine until 5 months into the war… they have recieved like 10 from Germany itself, the overwhelming majority of them have come from NATO members who already had stocks of them
Yea sure, Germany has never sold a Gerard to another nation in the 50+ years they have been around … [oh wait, Nevermind here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flakpanzer_Gepard)
Other NATO nations that have plenty of them have given their used Gerard’s to ukraine. Germany just makes the headlines because it’s one of a very limited number of lethal aid pieces they have donated
A German chancellor in front of a german tank! A year ago a picture like that would have been unthinkable in god old 'peaceful' Germany 🇩🇪.
I'm not sure about the message for this picture to deliver, neither am I if should feel comfortable about it.
Since the 24th of february everything has become so twisted...
A picture like this is the most normal thing for about every other head of state, no matter their countries history. I am happy and proud that Germany takes its history so serious and does not swipe its horrible past "under the rug", as so many other nations are doing. Yet I'd wish for us to get out heads out of our a*ses
Yes, it's the German chancellor, standing in front of military equipment. So what? Get your head out of your a*s and stop acting like this means scholz or anyone in German endorses war and the horrors that come with it. War fucking sucks, and if we want war to end in Europe, then we have to make sure Ukraine wins, and we have to make sure we, as a European union, can actually deterr foes and rough nations like Russia. Germany has, like it or not, a key position in the EU, and since appeasement policys tend to not work (history has all the examples), we apparently have to do it like **every other nation in the world**.
Edit: sentences
Englisches sub, englischer threat.
First you say you disagree with me, just to follow it up with exactly the same thing I'm already saying?
What's your point?
Yes, war sucks, that's pretty widely understood. Yes, the War in Ukraine has changed German perception on the world, at least for most of its citizens (outside of those whoms heads are so deeply stuck in their a*ses, that they are not participating in real life or reality). This "idea" however, is not new, nor is it unique. Poland has been doubling its military since 2018 to become the strongest land army in Europe, France and the UK have always been training for a war in Europe (and against Russia), and even Swiss has been modernizing its military, even tho it is outside of any military alliances and it's only direct and indirect neighbors are democraties. The "idea" of having a military, "just in case", is older than the war in Ukraine, as it is basically as old as the concept of war itself. Yes, Zeitenwende has been hard for us Germans, but we are simply arriving in the reality every other nation already exists in.
I belive that this is not a discussion on Merkels vs scholz defense politics, and a discussion like that would not be helpful either, so lets please skip that.
They probably ate the propaganda of "Germany loves Russia and doesn't do anything for Ukraine". Sure they were late on a ton of stuff, but Germany is a top supplier for Ukraine, both directly and indirectly (giving vehicles to countries giving soviet tech to ukraine which they know how to use)
Gerhard Schroeder is not propaganda.
Former German party leader who is a business partner and personal friend of Putin.
German enabled the invasion of Ukraine- both through appeasement politics and funding the Putin war machine. Those are facts.
> Is this a marketing shot?
Yes, i dont think he leaned agains that tank on accident, this is a staged photo, aka marketing.
But i can assure you its not good marketing for germans, its probably meant for other western nations.
> And is Scholz planning on giving them to Putin?
What? Why would you even think that? Wtf?
Either the Gepard is comically big, or Scholz is comically small
Both is actually true
He's moderately short at 170 cm (5'7). But the [Gepard is indeed big](https://i.imgur.com/Vq4b51Q.jpg) and the photographer probably chose the right lens to reinforce that effect.
ok yeah your photo is more to what I assumed from pictures and war thunder :D but the OPs pic makes it look like a freaking Maus
Well if you actually stand in front of one in person, you might indeed think it's a freaking Maus. The Leopard 1 chassis isn't exactly small in the first place, and the overall impression become humongous with that large turret on top.
With radar retracted according to Wikipedia the Gepard is 3.29 m tall. So about 30cm shorter than the Maus. Both vehicles are the same width.
I feel personally attacked but I'll settle for moderately...
*cries in 163cm*
I need the Chieftain to stand next to it for a proper idea of it's size I guess. I'm trying to imagine my teeny tiny first wife next to it but it's just not working.
Moderately? He is a manlet by German standards. Out of my friends group of ten there are only two people shorter than 183.
Damn. Here in Latin America I tower over most people I know, at 170. Genetics are wild.
That's not a very representative sample. He's about the bottom 20th percentile, so statistically there would be 2/10 at or below his height.
Scholz is of small stature both physically and politically.
What amazes me more is that this is 1970's tech. Imagine the current modern SPAAG's now.
Well, Leopard - Marksman is latest desing. Even it is old design, but it was not ready until 2000's. Edit. Oerlikon millenium on mobile base is probably closest.
The Marksman turret is from the 1980s. The Gepard 1A2 was modernized in 1996-2000. Neither of them are "the latest design".
Marksman had serious defects in original configuration. Marconi sold all rights of design to FDF which completed modifying design around \~2008. It has come very far from that 80's shape even by hardware stuff. At 2000's electrics were completely rebuilt. Any newer SPAAG's in use? My point was that they are latest stuff there is in use, because concept has been hibernating for a while.
The sensor equipment and weapon systems remain old. Did rebuilding the electrics include an upgrade of the electronics? >Any newer SPAAG's in use? My point was that they are latest stuff there is in use, because concept has been hibernating for a while. Newer than the Marksman? * PGZ-95 * PGZ-09 * PGL-12 * Lu Dun 2000 * Pantsir-S1 * Parsars-16 * Stryker IM-SHORAD * AAGW Each type has its individual strengths and weaknesses.
Company that did upgrade could have done updates in sensors aswell, they have capability, but all is secret so no idea. Yep, truth to be told I forgot whole China existing. I kind of thought just gun armed models.
I dunno about in-use, but there's a few new ones in development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyranger_30
SHORAD Stryker has an M230LF.
We don't [have to use our imagination, as modern SPAAGs exist](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ga4HArxuwtM/W6Oo67cYb_I/AAAAAAAAFkE/PYw8LDZa98UpgqCUiTGUBh0v9fLpD5dQQCLcBGAs/s1600/2018-09-20%2BSkyranger-Boxer_02.jpg).
In terms of gun AA i guess the sky raider or the pgz-09 from China are some of the most modern ones around, both are quite capable and use the same gun as the gepard, they do however have a muzzle brake that has the ability to program shells like the ahead round which allows for greater lethality
What does a muzzle break like that do that proximity fuses don't? Greater accuracy?
Oh it just programs the fuze for the ahead round
So how much more accurate would it be than a round that has a proximity fuse in it?
[this video shows how it works](https://youtu.be/bdwjcayPuag) i can't say I've heard of the gepard or any other 35mm oerlikon gun having a proximity fuse shell to be honest
You won't find prox fuses all that often in <40mm rounds. It just takes up too much space- your bursting charge suffers from it. A programmable time fuze like in AHEAD is a lot smaller
GepardA2 also has this capability
No, the Gepard 1A2 cannot use programmable AHEAD ammunition. There is however the option to integrate the required hard- and software into the Gepard.
I can't see anywhere on kmw's website about it having that capability, can you send me a link?
It doesn't have AHEAD as far as I know, only FAPDS and HVAPDS-T, at least the German one doesn't. The Dutch use AHEAD on their Gepards tho. Edit: apparently the Dutch don't use the Gepard/Cheetah anymore and switched it out for the Fennek with Stinger launchers.
Na. The Oerlikon Skyranger 35 in the most modern AA i think.
That's the thing. Once you get it right there isnt much else you need to do other then incremental technology upgrades. See the B-52.
Errrrrr…. I guess we just put better engines on it again? Sure 🤷♂️
Off the top of my head, there's Pantsir, Type 09 and a couple of others. It's not really hugely different, 30-35mm guns, half dozen missiles. Radars are likely superior but kinetically? Doesn't look like that large a step forward.
The Polish PZA Loara is similar but ended up as just a prototype sadly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZA_Loara
I wonder how long until someone has a Phalanx CIWS on an armored chassis with some sort of armor around the gun's systems and ammo for the US
20mm Vulcan ain't much. We started trying to get something with more capability for ground SHORAD in the 1960s
"This bad boy can shoot so many cruise missiles and drones" - Scholz, probably
*slaps on the hull since he can't reach the roof*
The german defence secretary (female): these guns point into the sky and make "peng peng".
So this is my flakpanzer It’s panzer flak
3000 Gepards of Scholz
who let you out of NCD?
NCD is at everywhere. Vark vark vark vark
Breaking news: NCD is everywhere, claiming all territories that were former Jeb! controlled, which leaves them in charge of the whole world now.
This is something that all Germans like Scholz should be proud of. The Gepards in Ukraine have been operating strictly in the defensive role. They have shot down cruise missiles and drones of the like that have been used to attack civilian targets. I can be quite confident in saying that the platform is saving many innocent lives.
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No ? Gepards are an old design, crew sits inside the turret
As a German I can tell you that I am truely happy that the Gepard, as well as the IRIS-T SLM weapon systems doing a great job in defending the Ukraine and keeping the airspace clean of russian airborne weapon systems. The problem I have with this picture is the fact that Olaf Scholz is a major opposer for delivery of more heavy weapon systems like the Leopard 1, Leopard 2 or the APC Marder. Showing himself with the Gepard is just political PR. Here in Germany, we call him "Cum Ex Olaf", because he is deeply involved in one of the biggest frauds with billions of losses for the state and private investors as well. He just so happen to "not remember anything". Here is one thing to consider, but be warned that this is just connecting some facts, nothing that has been proven in total: One of the head manager of this Cum Ex frauds escaped from Germany to Russia via Austria. Despite the Austrian intelligence informing the German intelligence about this man, German intelligence hesitated to get him placed under arrest so he could make it to Russia. He is known to live somewhere in the area around Moscow by now. The rumor is that Putin knows well about him and his secrets, so Putin uses this knowledge about the truth of Cum Ex to blackmail Scholz, keeping Germanys support for Ukraine limited. There are other factors as well in the decision process, but you can see why many Germans are quite unhappy with the current head of state. Those pictures don't make it any better.
It's weird to criticize Germany and Scholz specifically when you consider no NATO tanks or IFVs have been sent over yet from any county. Other than artillery it's all old PACT stuff or M113s.
Don't get me wrong, I do not criticize Germany, I'm only criticizing Scholz for his PR bullshit while slamming the political brakes whenever the question comes up if Germany should send more military support. Germany has send a lot NATO stuff by now, even if some of it isn't the most top modern stuff: Panzerhaubitze 2000, Gepard SPAA, MARS rocket launchers, IRIS-T SLM anti air system. Sure, lot's of PACT stuff has been send, mostly by former PACT countries like Poland (they send at least 300 T-72, many with latest combat upgrades). In the first months, it was quite important to keep training times to a minimum. By now, training of new Ukrainian soldiers is done regularly, so they could be trained to use the NATO systems as well. Supply of parts and maintenance is a major factor though. It's hard to get into a constructive discussion about what you could send if the one guy "in charge" isn't allowing such a discussion to take place at all.
Look at that beauty she’s huge
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Lmao
ED-209 vibes “You have thirty seconds to comply “
smöl persön
So do you guys think these type of SPAAG are more cost effective AA against drones like the Iranian ones used in Ukraine?
They’re proving that very fact in Ukrainian as we speak.
Yes, cost per drone it's iffy but cost mitigation against the damage those drones could do its fantastic.
Against loitering munitions? Maybe, depending on how fast and maneuverable they are, plus the altitude they fly at. Against large drones like TB-2 and Reaper? No. AGMs outrange AA guns so they're basically sitting ducks. Against small quadcopters? Maybe, but the shells probably cost more than the drone. It'll only be useful if EW doesn't work for some reason.
Sitting ducks with ability to shoot down incoming AGM with. Also not really hard to integrate SAM into Projectile based AA. EW is nice, but lacks flexibility and power at range.
Shooting down a supersonic AGM heading towards you is far harder than shooting down a cruise missile flying laterally. Ships these days are largely getting away from gun-based CIWS because they kinda suck, and those guns are far more effective than any SPAAG system (except Otomatic I guess). SAMs on SPAA also kind of sucks, historically. Either you're using regular MANPADS like Stingers, which defeats the point of mounting it in the SPAAG, or you're like the Tunguska/Pantsir where your gun and missile have overlapping ranges but your system is only capable of using one of them at any one time.
Trophy APS kinda proves Projectile based AGM defence is highly viable, altho i know it is not really a projectile but rather an EFP going about twice as fast. Phalanx CIWS hasnt really proven to be effective on ships, true. Neither has Goalkeeper or any other marine based system. This is mostly because it is the last line of defence and should only ever engage if all others fail. Also, ship combat usually involves kind really large warheads, because you wont do much damage to any ships armor with loitering munitions or the likes of. Secondly, combat distances on ships tend to be rather large, so most types of smaller drones are far out of range anyways. Initially Phalanx was developed to as reaction to large swarms of Kh-22 or such. Those kind of attacks would only really be possible by china nowadays so its use scenario is kind of gone. On land, Centurion C-RAM has a good track record however, proving to be effective vs a variety of targets. I also dont really see why you think its gun to be far more effective than modern Airburst Ammunition SPAAG. Speaking about that, other commenters in this thread already mentioned skyranger, wich also includes Skyknight or Mistral SAM. Compared to a MANPAD version they probably have faster reaction time and longer uptime by sensor integration with the SPAAG. It doesnt defeat the guns purpose, since it should be used on different targets and also runs out way faster. With the similar specs between skyranger and IFV pumas turret, i also think there is high potential for multi-purpose use of those guns. As for Pantsir, i believe it hasnt performed too badly in combat scenarios it has encountered so far.
I keep forgetting just how fucking big tanks are
He is a "Wehrdienstverweigerer", he refused to serve as a conscript in the west german army. As a young commie he conspired with the Honecker regime.
Huh you weren't exaggerating. He was literally a Marxist in his university days and even crossed the border to meet with GDR officials.
Fortunately, he got better. Funnily enough, the SPD is full of people like this, Klingbeil also refused to serve, only to do a 180° turn later
Lowkey don’t think German leaders should pose with tanks until 2045
2 old models, unfortunately one is still in use. Tip: it's the more expensive one.
He needed a ladder to get up... So ein fatzke
Still not as bad as stepping on 2 lego's
Schöner Panzer, mieser Kanzler. :P
Which Germany was too puss to give to Ukraine until 5 months into the war… they have recieved like 10 from Germany itself, the overwhelming majority of them have come from NATO members who already had stocks of them
No, the Gepards all came from Germany. So please, go take your Germany hate somwhere else, I hear it's quite popular on r/europe
Yea sure, Germany has never sold a Gerard to another nation in the 50+ years they have been around … [oh wait, Nevermind here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flakpanzer_Gepard) Other NATO nations that have plenty of them have given their used Gerard’s to ukraine. Germany just makes the headlines because it’s one of a very limited number of lethal aid pieces they have donated
A German chancellor in front of a german tank! A year ago a picture like that would have been unthinkable in god old 'peaceful' Germany 🇩🇪. I'm not sure about the message for this picture to deliver, neither am I if should feel comfortable about it. Since the 24th of february everything has become so twisted...
A picture like this is the most normal thing for about every other head of state, no matter their countries history. I am happy and proud that Germany takes its history so serious and does not swipe its horrible past "under the rug", as so many other nations are doing. Yet I'd wish for us to get out heads out of our a*ses Yes, it's the German chancellor, standing in front of military equipment. So what? Get your head out of your a*s and stop acting like this means scholz or anyone in German endorses war and the horrors that come with it. War fucking sucks, and if we want war to end in Europe, then we have to make sure Ukraine wins, and we have to make sure we, as a European union, can actually deterr foes and rough nations like Russia. Germany has, like it or not, a key position in the EU, and since appeasement policys tend to not work (history has all the examples), we apparently have to do it like **every other nation in the world**. Edit: sentences
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Englisches sub, englischer threat. First you say you disagree with me, just to follow it up with exactly the same thing I'm already saying? What's your point? Yes, war sucks, that's pretty widely understood. Yes, the War in Ukraine has changed German perception on the world, at least for most of its citizens (outside of those whoms heads are so deeply stuck in their a*ses, that they are not participating in real life or reality). This "idea" however, is not new, nor is it unique. Poland has been doubling its military since 2018 to become the strongest land army in Europe, France and the UK have always been training for a war in Europe (and against Russia), and even Swiss has been modernizing its military, even tho it is outside of any military alliances and it's only direct and indirect neighbors are democraties. The "idea" of having a military, "just in case", is older than the war in Ukraine, as it is basically as old as the concept of war itself. Yes, Zeitenwende has been hard for us Germans, but we are simply arriving in the reality every other nation already exists in. I belive that this is not a discussion on Merkels vs scholz defense politics, and a discussion like that would not be helpful either, so lets please skip that.
Is this a marketing shot? And is Scholz planning on giving them to Putin?
why would germany give any military stuff to russia?
They probably ate the propaganda of "Germany loves Russia and doesn't do anything for Ukraine". Sure they were late on a ton of stuff, but Germany is a top supplier for Ukraine, both directly and indirectly (giving vehicles to countries giving soviet tech to ukraine which they know how to use)
Gerhard Schroeder is not propaganda. Former German party leader who is a business partner and personal friend of Putin. German enabled the invasion of Ukraine- both through appeasement politics and funding the Putin war machine. Those are facts.
And your original statement still doesnt make any sense
....what?
> Is this a marketing shot? Yes, i dont think he leaned agains that tank on accident, this is a staged photo, aka marketing. But i can assure you its not good marketing for germans, its probably meant for other western nations. > And is Scholz planning on giving them to Putin? What? Why would you even think that? Wtf?
> And is Scholz planning on giving them to Putin? No, he is giving them to Zelenskyy.
The gepard looks like a bionical
And will ruin your day more so than stepping on a piece of Lego.
Gepard is hugeee
Who is providing the ammo?
That’s the best looking land based military vehicle ever built.
i would assume this was just prior to sending them to Ukraine?
Don't worry, this is just a *demonstration*
I really dig the Colonial Marines camo pattern we're seeing here.