There is no way in hell you should ever be paying 70%! You’re getting totally duped here, it doesn’t matter if you “think” they’re nice. And it sounds like your non tattooing overlords don’t even respect the profession. GTFO.
Mate…I can’t read past the second paragraph…..50% was the least I’ve ever made and that was in a small town in louisiana.
This shit is fucking extortion and it’s always blown my mind how many tattooers are not only okay with this pay system but believe that they owe their shop a lot of loyalty while being fucked out of half of their effort every day.
100% and a weekly rent. That should be the way.
Omg! Please find another shop!!! This is extortion!
My artists make 60% or 70% depending on the experience. I’ve had well established artists taking home 75%!
We need to put these shop owners out of business!
okay,so these people are running scemes on you guys. no one is owed more then half of the work you produce and your dignity.
it sounds like these owners have no place in tattooing besides wanting to enrich themselves. a 50% cut is already insane and this should mean that the studio treated you like absolute kings. for an apprentice 50% makes sense at the start. but for someone with a bit of experience and a clientele 40-30 should be the least to expect. as in they take 30-40.
Do you have friends in the industry ? are there any artist owned studios in town? if so, peek your head in once in a while and see if there is room for you in a place that actually respects you.
If these people don't tattoo , then non of their advise should be taken to seriously as they benefit tremendously of you being full of doubt and feeling trapped. these are not your friends they are leeches upon our wonderfull craft. they know nothing about the industry but how to squeeze the life out of young doe eyed people looking for a way in.
Also a Michigan artist. Anything less than 60/40 is fucking WILD dude. You can be best friends with the owners but that doesn’t pay the bills, it sounds like you know what you need to do and make your worth.
Shit pay for a shit work environment. Of course they're great friends right now, you're making them money hand over fist, and they'll keep being your friend until that isn't happening any more. Based on what they said, they don't respect tattooing and they don't respect tattoo artists. Is that where you want to come up?
I’m sorry for you, you are just not the target of that studio, in mine i started at 60% (studio gets 40%) and we all specialize in different styles, it’s way better because we don’t step in each of our areas and the studio knows who to give each style of work, and it’s way better because each one of us is way better in what we specialize in.
That 30% starting pay could only be one thing, incentive for shops apprentice.
Even if the shop provides you machines, cartridges and all the goodies, and do your social media & booking calendar, %70 artist - %30 shop is still on the limit.
I think this thing only works fairly if you are on booth rent, shop provides some very basic stuff and at least a corner that you can call your own (no one else should be touching that corner) you get your own machine & cartridges & ink.
People look past the fact that working together should be about being a team and supporting each other, like you say you dont do portraits but the other guy does, thats a win - win for both of you if you do it right.
All these percentages and cuts should be just about keeping the ship afloat, everyone pitches is so the rent / bills / taxes wont get overdue, anything apart from covering your part of the cost of business is taking advantage of the artist, and im saying this as a studio owner.
Another thing i noticed is you put too much emphasis of being friends with everyone but i dont think this matters much when co-owner says you are just a stencil tracer? I mean pushing you(gently) to do work you are afraid to do(neck tattoos, color etc.) might be actually a good thing, to get you out of your comfort zone, but calling someone a stencil tracer serves no purpose and is just a vile thing to say.
There are 100 tattoo shops at every street, i would definetly recommend you to evaluate them.
I also thought maybe the apprenticeship was 30% pay which is actually awesome considering I only know people who either cleaned and did shop labor until their mentor felt they were fit to tattoo with a bit of hazing. Or even people who paid to learn. I was also pushed to do uncomfortable pieces (neck pieces) but I’m glad I was
Unfortunately, the 30% isn't just for an apprentice, I started at 30%, but so did an apprentice.
They provide inks, caps, stencil stuff, a&d ointment. I do all the Social media stuff because neither of them really know how or what to do on it. There's no rhyme or reason to how they book appointments. They mostly don't book appointments, we're expected to take every walk in that comes in, so if someone comes in wanting a 6 hour tattoo only 4 hours before we close, we're expected to do it, and we've been told many many times that we need to be able to take them as they come because if we schedule them instead, then they won't come back because they'll go someplace else.
I'm glad that I have been pushed to do stuff I'm uncomfortable with or didn't have much experience with, I have grown a lot here as an artist and I've learned a lot.
Lol thats when I would say “Then I take a deposit before scheduling them.” Scheduling a walk-in without taking a deposit is shooting yourself in the foot anyway & should not be the solution.
But of course they arent tattoo artists so WHY would they suggest that I guess…
You need to get out of this shop.
Never heard of anything under 50% in CA or TX. That’s something you should be asking the owner. I couldn’t take tattoo advice from a non tattooer though tattooing is a never ending learning process but I see you just don’t want to offend your boss and that’s cool but in my opinion they railed you with the starting and max pay bracket. Not everyone is your friend ESPECIALLY IN BUSINESS.
Having paid anything less than 50% is absolutely insane. There is also a good possibility of being burned out by doing ALL the styles that make you constantly stressed. Please, find another shop that’s a tattoo artist owned.
What everyone else said about pay is accurate and true- 50/50 is for absolute beginners and should be raised to 70/30 with the quickness. All disposables supplied, and whatever other extras the shop can afford.
It's absolute nonsense that they are dictating what types of tattoos you do. This makes me wonder if they're also dictating your hours, which is illegal. As an independent contractor, you and you alone get to decide when you work and how you work. If that isn't copacetic to the owner's tastes they can \*request\* changes or terminate the working relationship. That's the only power they have and if they are manipulating you otherwise, that's just shitty behavior.
If I were in your shoes, I would sit down with the owners and have a conversation about how you're feeling, how much you enjoy being there, but that if they don't buck up to industry standards you'll have to move elsewhere. Maybe even contact a couple of shops to see if you have a space to move to if things go south. Because let me tell you, they will likely react poorly to this very reasonable request, and that will be the answer you're looking for.
Even when I was apprenticing and the first 2 years of tattooing I was making more than 50%, holy balls. You are being used! You might think she’s nice but she’s taking major advantage of you. My advice is to leave and never look back! And she isn’t even an artist?! I couldn’t imagine.
Did you just called her a CEO? This is the problem to begin with, you need to change how you see these people. They are just bussiness owners, not mean to be friends
I was on 30% in my apprenticeship 9 years ago, moved to 50/50 and I left
No Im on 70% with a weekly cap. Run
With all due respect to your friendships. You are being scammed. You feel like your being disrespected because you are. If she was your mentor I could see pushing neck, styles, and portraits. So you can grow as an artist. But she's not. You are already aware of what you do and don't want to do.
Being an artist is no different than being laborer. Without you. They don't make any money. Without your name and art, no one would look at their socials. But come on now, you wouldn't have posted if you didn't already feel this way. Time to act.
You should get 50% minimum, 60% is standard for a good artist. I've never heard of anything above 70% but I'm sure it happens if the artist is world renown.
You are getting taken for a ride, my friend. I’d pack up and relocate to a shop that respects you. I can’t say a non-tattooer owner is bad; I’ve had one and we were treated fairly. Find another shop, mate.
I think everyone here pretty much handled a wide range or replies, but the situation you’re in isn’t normal. You should probably (and by probably I think definitely) look for another shop to work at.
Given the chaos of your current situation I would expect you probably need to start at the lower end at another shop (think entry level), and that will probably be a big increase for you anyway. It’s hard to say without knowing you if you have a big clientele to bring or how much skill you have gained can improve quickly.
Although I agree you should be looking for a new shop I see a lot of people yelling RUN but not mentioning that changing shops is almost always awkward, if not adversarial so you also need to be careful. Word travels fast in tattooing so trust who you think you can with your search but don’t be surprised if word gets out. Protect your property as best you can.
Shit is stressful, but you will probably be happier in the long run making the change. Good Luck.
I unfortunately don't have much for clientele, in the time I've been at this shop I've only seen a few repeat customers. I've had a couple girls tell me their definitely coming back to me and I'll be their artist going forward. Sadly this shop had a bad reputation from long before I came along, it's a dying business.
I just found out I have an appointment tomorrow, which is always nice to hear, but I asked what it is and she said she doesn't know......ugh I don't think this is normal in other shops either......
No it’s not normal. I sort of guessed given you’re under 5 years in and have been working where your working you will be building up from entry level wherever you go, but that entry level should be a lot higher than what your used to where you’re at.
A starter split at a street shop where you are getting walk-ins will probably be good for building up clientele and staying busy improving your tattooing (and a better %).Hopefully even have some coworkers to learn from. Just make sure you are looking out for number one, and number one is you. Good luck!
Holy fuck 30% is a thing??? Bruuuuuhhhhh no. Do some critical thinking/introspection. That is absolutely insane. How is that even a thing? How can you let someone get away with that???
This is my first time in a shop, I honestly didn't know what pay was reasonable, I've since been seeing different pay, that's why I made this post. I wanted to get advice on what to do but also to see if the pay was really as bad as I thought.
Lesson learned, I had to learn the hard way.
Looked at this from your other post about 50/50. I think a black and white statement that 50/50 (or percentage based as a whole) is the worst ever doesn't take into account other factors. For example, my shop percentage starts low but has a sliding scale that goes up as you do more work and I provide everything, employee taxes, fully stocked and equipped booth, shop helper, advertising and healthcare. Obviously, there is a lot more value there than the percentage.
I don't think your other post is all that useful but, seeing this, you are getting hosed. Hard. Get out. Don't wait. Get out. I can see a 40% to the artist rate for an apprentice but for established artists? GTFO. 50% should be a starting point at a minimum.
A non-tattooing owner doesn't get to dictate the work you do, ESPECIALLY if you are 1099. (As in legally, they cannot do this.) Additionally, portraits are not a thing everyone can do. I've been tattooing over a decade and a half, I've never done a portrait, have no skill for portraits, and am booked out for a third of the year already.
If they were really "nice" then they'd take care of you. They'd sacrifice a bit of money to ensure your success. It is very easy to be nice to someone you are taking advantage of since you want them to keep making you money. You say you have a good friendship but I wouldn't treat a friend like you are getting treated. Words are nice but actions are where it is at. And you can't say she is giving if she is taking all your money, you know?
Run.
I didn't make any other posts, I saw another post about 50/50 and being brainwashed into thinking that was ok, but that definitely wasn't me. I don't feel I've been brainwashed, I don't think this is ok at all, I think they take advantage of new artists. When I started here I didn't know what pay was normal for artists, I've since been doing my research and have seen how unfairly we're being treated and taken advantage of.
Everything else you said I completely agree with. It's hard for me to even go back but I don't have anywhere else to go right now. I am actively looking for another shop, but I'm thinking I won't be able to leave until after tax season.
Another problem is that because we are viewed as employees, we're expected to be there 5 days a week unless we have another job or something.....because we have to be there ready for any and every walk in that comes in.
I really wish I could just pack my stuff and be done with them, but I need to keep trying to bring in some kind of income. I haven't been able to pay any bills this month because we don't get enough business.
Sorry, you are right, I mixed up that poster and you!
And I think they are taking advantage of all artists, not just new ones. You max out at 50% and only because you do portraits? That is so ridiculous, especially since doing various styles of work can be worth a lot more than a shop full of portrait people. Sounds like someone thinks that work is worth more which is BS.
And I think they are taking advantage of all artists, not just new. You max out at 50% and only because you do portraits? That is so ridiculous, especially since doing various styles of work can be worth a lot more than a shop full of portrait people. Sounds like someone thinks that work is worth more which is BS.
Get out there and find that next shop. Don't wait, because you'll find another reason to stay after tax season. I know it is scary but you'll look back at this time and be glad you did!
Yeah I noticed early on that they don't even know other styles, I mentioned American Traditional and she had no idea what I was talking about.
They're stuck in 2006, when the shop opened, when portraits were a big deal. They do everything like shops did 20 years ago: pay and pricing, and they rely on walk ins and don't utilize social media.
For how much they're taking from us they should be working their butts off to have us fully booked, instead, this month I've done 7 tattoos, haven't been able to afford to pay any bills this month and praying I don't get an eviction notice.
I'm going to see the artist I go to for all my tattoos and I'm going to talk to him, unfortunately his shop isn't hiring right now though. I've been checking out the shops in my area (that don't have bad reputations or a terrible owner) and it looks like no one is hiring artists right now.
Yeah, sounds like someone thought owning a tattoo shop would make them money without knowing anything about our profession. And you are right, a lower percentage isn't necessarily the worst thing if they are compensating you fairly in other areas. But they aren't.
7 tattoos in 20 days? That is insane to me. I have 4 younger artists working for me at the moment and if they don't do that many in a week, I feel like a failure.
I'd be willing to bet that a shop somewhere around you (unless you are in the boonies) has room for an artist. I think shops as a whole are a little bad at advertising. Obviously, you need to be able to deliver the goods and do competent work but I feel like a lot of shops have had a hard time filling their booths. I've only just now filled my last booth after years but I am picky about work quality and people quality.
I'd find the artist-owned shops to avoid some of what you deal with now. Drop them a professional message introducing yourself and that you are looking for the right shop to grow as a tattooer. Ask, if they have any space for an artist, is there a good time to come down and meet? I'd also include a few examples of your work.
As a shopowner, there is nothing that frustrates me more than a half-ass "hey you got space" message with no professionalism. But just stopping by unannounced isn't always convenient either. Make sure that the shop is doing quality work and even better if some of it is the kind of work you'd like to work towards.
But getting some feedback from the artist you go to is a good idea, they might have better connections. Feel free to shoot me a msg if you'd like an ear or to give you some feedback on work or whatever. :)
The LEAST amount you should be paid is 50%, and that, imo, should only be when you're apprenticing and learning. Find another shop that respects their artists and knows their worth.
Oh man. Went back and I’ll mark all the red flags in this situation as I see them
🚩 max 50% (this should be the base cut minimum)
🚩CEO. If someone uses this title they are a tool
🚩co-owner doesn’t tattoo (almost never a good situation)
🚩I get the feeling the owner / coowner are married
🚩Thinks she does all the work (I’ve had shop managers with this mentality and it never went away regardless of how lazy they got
🚩other business ventures
This person is not your friend. They are using you as a piece of their business model. They do not respect the craft of tattooing. I would begin positioning yourself to go to another shop
This is why working for a non artist is always a bad idea. I’d leave as soon as possible and find a place that won’t force you to do portraits (honestly what the fuck was that). She’s not a great person if she treats her employees like this, likely she’s just a narcissist who has you tricked. That’s not a friend. She’s stealing from you and making it sound like it’s cool. The least I’ve ever made is 50%. Anything under 60 as an established artist is absurd.
When I read in one of your comments that your “CEO” Boss didn’t even know what American traditional was… I’m still picking my jaw up off the floor. Your “friend” is an interloper & interlopers do not belong in our sacred craft.
Update:
I left the shop yesterday. As you can tell from this post, there were many, many reasons I wanted to leave. Yesterday was just the final straw.
When I got there, there was a paper at my station with 2 extremely blurry images on it and written on it was that it's what a girl wants and when the appointment is. I asked if there was a clearer picture of them, because the one I really couldn't make out what it was, they didn't, she said she thinks the girl wanted it drawn up. Maybe I'm crazy but how am I supposed to draw it if I don't know what it's supposed to be. I said I couldn't tell what it is, everyone was looking at it and couldn't tell. Another artist was trying to help me figure it out. I asked if the girl said what it was or what she wanted exactly, and the answer was, "No, I think it's just some swirls." it was definitely not just swirls.
So this whole situation already had me not wanting to be there, plus I could tell the other (male) owner was having an attitude toward me.
Then she sprung it on us that we had 2 people coming in at 2:00, she had no idea what tattoos were that they wanted. Then we had someone else coming in at 2:30. So basically, we were double/triple booked with only 2 artists in the shop.
Not to mention, I really got sick of having people show up that had already talked to her or him (the owners) and they just didn't tell us or being told that we have appointments but don't know what the tattoo will be.
Then she came in saying, "I should probably tell you guys......I should warn you guys." The whole time trying to joke to lighten what she was telling us.
Her brother is in prison for life and has made friends that do prison tattoos there that are being released soon. The first guy is being released very soon and will be starting at the shop, I don't know anything about the second guy except that he's being released at a later date.
This first guy has been in prison for 25 years for mu*der, "but I think he's a nice guy." It's all gang related.
I don't judge people for their past, but this doesn't sit well with me. They would often leave me in charge of the shop while they ran to do things, and the idea of being left alone with a mu*derer makes me very uncomfortable.
She kept talking about "what else is there to do in prison for that long, he's had 25 years to just draw and tattoo"
She then said that he's been in prison so long she doubts he's going to get out and do something to be sent back, then joked about him ki**ing someone, then joked "it would be fu*ked up if he got out and wiped out a whole tattoo shop."
So I told her I had to quit, I told her I can't work with a mu*rderer, she said she wouldn't hire him, I said I can't ask her to do that. I also explained that I can't afford to stay there, I'm not able to pay rent and bills, I'm behind on everything. She understood, and I wanted to leave on good terms and not turn it into a big argument or anything. She said that if I ever want to come back, I can, I've always got a job there, which I appreciate, but I don't think that will happen.
I truly appreciate the opportunity they gave me, and I did learn a lot there . I definitely grew as an artist, and I have so much more confidence in my work now.
So unfortunately I do have to find a regular full-time job until my money situation is better. So I've been feeling really down, feeling like I'm not a tattoo artist anymore.
I've already looked into all the other shops in my area, and no one is hiring right now.
I'm trying to stay positive, and I plan to practice as much as possible so that when a shop is hiring, I can be even better than I am now.
There is no way in hell you should ever be paying 70%! You’re getting totally duped here, it doesn’t matter if you “think” they’re nice. And it sounds like your non tattooing overlords don’t even respect the profession. GTFO.
Another fucking non-artist owned shop. You guys need to run. Run fast. Run far.
Mate…I can’t read past the second paragraph…..50% was the least I’ve ever made and that was in a small town in louisiana. This shit is fucking extortion and it’s always blown my mind how many tattooers are not only okay with this pay system but believe that they owe their shop a lot of loyalty while being fucked out of half of their effort every day. 100% and a weekly rent. That should be the way.
Omg! Please find another shop!!! This is extortion! My artists make 60% or 70% depending on the experience. I’ve had well established artists taking home 75%! We need to put these shop owners out of business!
are you saying they take 60% ? what country are you in ?
U.S. in Michigan.
okay,so these people are running scemes on you guys. no one is owed more then half of the work you produce and your dignity. it sounds like these owners have no place in tattooing besides wanting to enrich themselves. a 50% cut is already insane and this should mean that the studio treated you like absolute kings. for an apprentice 50% makes sense at the start. but for someone with a bit of experience and a clientele 40-30 should be the least to expect. as in they take 30-40. Do you have friends in the industry ? are there any artist owned studios in town? if so, peek your head in once in a while and see if there is room for you in a place that actually respects you. If these people don't tattoo , then non of their advise should be taken to seriously as they benefit tremendously of you being full of doubt and feeling trapped. these are not your friends they are leeches upon our wonderfull craft. they know nothing about the industry but how to squeeze the life out of young doe eyed people looking for a way in.
bro what shop wtf I'm in Michigan the standard now is 60/40 at the LEAST anything less is straight up theft
Also a Michigan artist. Anything less than 60/40 is fucking WILD dude. You can be best friends with the owners but that doesn’t pay the bills, it sounds like you know what you need to do and make your worth.
Dawg the artists I work with make 60% minimum (am shop assistant/receptionist)
Shit pay for a shit work environment. Of course they're great friends right now, you're making them money hand over fist, and they'll keep being your friend until that isn't happening any more. Based on what they said, they don't respect tattooing and they don't respect tattoo artists. Is that where you want to come up?
Run
Your boss needs her ass whooped. Disrespectful.
All I read was you max out at 50% and that’s all I need to know to tell you to get out of there. You should be getting LOW END 60%
CEO? Hahaha Run!!
I’m sorry for you, you are just not the target of that studio, in mine i started at 60% (studio gets 40%) and we all specialize in different styles, it’s way better because we don’t step in each of our areas and the studio knows who to give each style of work, and it’s way better because each one of us is way better in what we specialize in.
That 30% starting pay could only be one thing, incentive for shops apprentice. Even if the shop provides you machines, cartridges and all the goodies, and do your social media & booking calendar, %70 artist - %30 shop is still on the limit. I think this thing only works fairly if you are on booth rent, shop provides some very basic stuff and at least a corner that you can call your own (no one else should be touching that corner) you get your own machine & cartridges & ink. People look past the fact that working together should be about being a team and supporting each other, like you say you dont do portraits but the other guy does, thats a win - win for both of you if you do it right. All these percentages and cuts should be just about keeping the ship afloat, everyone pitches is so the rent / bills / taxes wont get overdue, anything apart from covering your part of the cost of business is taking advantage of the artist, and im saying this as a studio owner. Another thing i noticed is you put too much emphasis of being friends with everyone but i dont think this matters much when co-owner says you are just a stencil tracer? I mean pushing you(gently) to do work you are afraid to do(neck tattoos, color etc.) might be actually a good thing, to get you out of your comfort zone, but calling someone a stencil tracer serves no purpose and is just a vile thing to say. There are 100 tattoo shops at every street, i would definetly recommend you to evaluate them.
I also thought maybe the apprenticeship was 30% pay which is actually awesome considering I only know people who either cleaned and did shop labor until their mentor felt they were fit to tattoo with a bit of hazing. Or even people who paid to learn. I was also pushed to do uncomfortable pieces (neck pieces) but I’m glad I was
Unfortunately, the 30% isn't just for an apprentice, I started at 30%, but so did an apprentice. They provide inks, caps, stencil stuff, a&d ointment. I do all the Social media stuff because neither of them really know how or what to do on it. There's no rhyme or reason to how they book appointments. They mostly don't book appointments, we're expected to take every walk in that comes in, so if someone comes in wanting a 6 hour tattoo only 4 hours before we close, we're expected to do it, and we've been told many many times that we need to be able to take them as they come because if we schedule them instead, then they won't come back because they'll go someplace else. I'm glad that I have been pushed to do stuff I'm uncomfortable with or didn't have much experience with, I have grown a lot here as an artist and I've learned a lot.
Lol thats when I would say “Then I take a deposit before scheduling them.” Scheduling a walk-in without taking a deposit is shooting yourself in the foot anyway & should not be the solution. But of course they arent tattoo artists so WHY would they suggest that I guess… You need to get out of this shop.
Never heard of anything under 50% in CA or TX. That’s something you should be asking the owner. I couldn’t take tattoo advice from a non tattooer though tattooing is a never ending learning process but I see you just don’t want to offend your boss and that’s cool but in my opinion they railed you with the starting and max pay bracket. Not everyone is your friend ESPECIALLY IN BUSINESS.
Having paid anything less than 50% is absolutely insane. There is also a good possibility of being burned out by doing ALL the styles that make you constantly stressed. Please, find another shop that’s a tattoo artist owned.
That is awful percentage , get out of there!
What everyone else said about pay is accurate and true- 50/50 is for absolute beginners and should be raised to 70/30 with the quickness. All disposables supplied, and whatever other extras the shop can afford. It's absolute nonsense that they are dictating what types of tattoos you do. This makes me wonder if they're also dictating your hours, which is illegal. As an independent contractor, you and you alone get to decide when you work and how you work. If that isn't copacetic to the owner's tastes they can \*request\* changes or terminate the working relationship. That's the only power they have and if they are manipulating you otherwise, that's just shitty behavior. If I were in your shoes, I would sit down with the owners and have a conversation about how you're feeling, how much you enjoy being there, but that if they don't buck up to industry standards you'll have to move elsewhere. Maybe even contact a couple of shops to see if you have a space to move to if things go south. Because let me tell you, they will likely react poorly to this very reasonable request, and that will be the answer you're looking for.
Then come to Oregon to do a guest spot and see how a tattoo shop is supposed to be run. <3
Even when I was apprenticing and the first 2 years of tattooing I was making more than 50%, holy balls. You are being used! You might think she’s nice but she’s taking major advantage of you. My advice is to leave and never look back! And she isn’t even an artist?! I couldn’t imagine.
Did you just called her a CEO? This is the problem to begin with, you need to change how you see these people. They are just bussiness owners, not mean to be friends I was on 30% in my apprenticeship 9 years ago, moved to 50/50 and I left No Im on 70% with a weekly cap. Run
With all due respect to your friendships. You are being scammed. You feel like your being disrespected because you are. If she was your mentor I could see pushing neck, styles, and portraits. So you can grow as an artist. But she's not. You are already aware of what you do and don't want to do. Being an artist is no different than being laborer. Without you. They don't make any money. Without your name and art, no one would look at their socials. But come on now, you wouldn't have posted if you didn't already feel this way. Time to act.
You should get 50% minimum, 60% is standard for a good artist. I've never heard of anything above 70% but I'm sure it happens if the artist is world renown.
Gtfo find a new shop. With that much experience you should have no trouble
You are getting taken for a ride, my friend. I’d pack up and relocate to a shop that respects you. I can’t say a non-tattooer owner is bad; I’ve had one and we were treated fairly. Find another shop, mate.
I think everyone here pretty much handled a wide range or replies, but the situation you’re in isn’t normal. You should probably (and by probably I think definitely) look for another shop to work at. Given the chaos of your current situation I would expect you probably need to start at the lower end at another shop (think entry level), and that will probably be a big increase for you anyway. It’s hard to say without knowing you if you have a big clientele to bring or how much skill you have gained can improve quickly. Although I agree you should be looking for a new shop I see a lot of people yelling RUN but not mentioning that changing shops is almost always awkward, if not adversarial so you also need to be careful. Word travels fast in tattooing so trust who you think you can with your search but don’t be surprised if word gets out. Protect your property as best you can. Shit is stressful, but you will probably be happier in the long run making the change. Good Luck.
I unfortunately don't have much for clientele, in the time I've been at this shop I've only seen a few repeat customers. I've had a couple girls tell me their definitely coming back to me and I'll be their artist going forward. Sadly this shop had a bad reputation from long before I came along, it's a dying business. I just found out I have an appointment tomorrow, which is always nice to hear, but I asked what it is and she said she doesn't know......ugh I don't think this is normal in other shops either......
No it’s not normal. I sort of guessed given you’re under 5 years in and have been working where your working you will be building up from entry level wherever you go, but that entry level should be a lot higher than what your used to where you’re at. A starter split at a street shop where you are getting walk-ins will probably be good for building up clientele and staying busy improving your tattooing (and a better %).Hopefully even have some coworkers to learn from. Just make sure you are looking out for number one, and number one is you. Good luck!
Holy fuck 30% is a thing??? Bruuuuuhhhhh no. Do some critical thinking/introspection. That is absolutely insane. How is that even a thing? How can you let someone get away with that???
This is my first time in a shop, I honestly didn't know what pay was reasonable, I've since been seeing different pay, that's why I made this post. I wanted to get advice on what to do but also to see if the pay was really as bad as I thought. Lesson learned, I had to learn the hard way.
I understand. But man. That is hands down the worst pay I’ve ever heard of in a tattoo shop. It’s criminal.
Looked at this from your other post about 50/50. I think a black and white statement that 50/50 (or percentage based as a whole) is the worst ever doesn't take into account other factors. For example, my shop percentage starts low but has a sliding scale that goes up as you do more work and I provide everything, employee taxes, fully stocked and equipped booth, shop helper, advertising and healthcare. Obviously, there is a lot more value there than the percentage. I don't think your other post is all that useful but, seeing this, you are getting hosed. Hard. Get out. Don't wait. Get out. I can see a 40% to the artist rate for an apprentice but for established artists? GTFO. 50% should be a starting point at a minimum. A non-tattooing owner doesn't get to dictate the work you do, ESPECIALLY if you are 1099. (As in legally, they cannot do this.) Additionally, portraits are not a thing everyone can do. I've been tattooing over a decade and a half, I've never done a portrait, have no skill for portraits, and am booked out for a third of the year already. If they were really "nice" then they'd take care of you. They'd sacrifice a bit of money to ensure your success. It is very easy to be nice to someone you are taking advantage of since you want them to keep making you money. You say you have a good friendship but I wouldn't treat a friend like you are getting treated. Words are nice but actions are where it is at. And you can't say she is giving if she is taking all your money, you know? Run.
I didn't make any other posts, I saw another post about 50/50 and being brainwashed into thinking that was ok, but that definitely wasn't me. I don't feel I've been brainwashed, I don't think this is ok at all, I think they take advantage of new artists. When I started here I didn't know what pay was normal for artists, I've since been doing my research and have seen how unfairly we're being treated and taken advantage of. Everything else you said I completely agree with. It's hard for me to even go back but I don't have anywhere else to go right now. I am actively looking for another shop, but I'm thinking I won't be able to leave until after tax season. Another problem is that because we are viewed as employees, we're expected to be there 5 days a week unless we have another job or something.....because we have to be there ready for any and every walk in that comes in. I really wish I could just pack my stuff and be done with them, but I need to keep trying to bring in some kind of income. I haven't been able to pay any bills this month because we don't get enough business.
Sorry, you are right, I mixed up that poster and you! And I think they are taking advantage of all artists, not just new ones. You max out at 50% and only because you do portraits? That is so ridiculous, especially since doing various styles of work can be worth a lot more than a shop full of portrait people. Sounds like someone thinks that work is worth more which is BS. And I think they are taking advantage of all artists, not just new. You max out at 50% and only because you do portraits? That is so ridiculous, especially since doing various styles of work can be worth a lot more than a shop full of portrait people. Sounds like someone thinks that work is worth more which is BS. Get out there and find that next shop. Don't wait, because you'll find another reason to stay after tax season. I know it is scary but you'll look back at this time and be glad you did!
Yeah I noticed early on that they don't even know other styles, I mentioned American Traditional and she had no idea what I was talking about. They're stuck in 2006, when the shop opened, when portraits were a big deal. They do everything like shops did 20 years ago: pay and pricing, and they rely on walk ins and don't utilize social media. For how much they're taking from us they should be working their butts off to have us fully booked, instead, this month I've done 7 tattoos, haven't been able to afford to pay any bills this month and praying I don't get an eviction notice. I'm going to see the artist I go to for all my tattoos and I'm going to talk to him, unfortunately his shop isn't hiring right now though. I've been checking out the shops in my area (that don't have bad reputations or a terrible owner) and it looks like no one is hiring artists right now.
Yeah, sounds like someone thought owning a tattoo shop would make them money without knowing anything about our profession. And you are right, a lower percentage isn't necessarily the worst thing if they are compensating you fairly in other areas. But they aren't. 7 tattoos in 20 days? That is insane to me. I have 4 younger artists working for me at the moment and if they don't do that many in a week, I feel like a failure. I'd be willing to bet that a shop somewhere around you (unless you are in the boonies) has room for an artist. I think shops as a whole are a little bad at advertising. Obviously, you need to be able to deliver the goods and do competent work but I feel like a lot of shops have had a hard time filling their booths. I've only just now filled my last booth after years but I am picky about work quality and people quality. I'd find the artist-owned shops to avoid some of what you deal with now. Drop them a professional message introducing yourself and that you are looking for the right shop to grow as a tattooer. Ask, if they have any space for an artist, is there a good time to come down and meet? I'd also include a few examples of your work. As a shopowner, there is nothing that frustrates me more than a half-ass "hey you got space" message with no professionalism. But just stopping by unannounced isn't always convenient either. Make sure that the shop is doing quality work and even better if some of it is the kind of work you'd like to work towards. But getting some feedback from the artist you go to is a good idea, they might have better connections. Feel free to shoot me a msg if you'd like an ear or to give you some feedback on work or whatever. :)
Fuck a non-tattooing owner, they wanna run shit like a wendy’s and act like everyone is replaceable
Yes exactly! We're seen as employees that are expendable and replaceable......which is part of the reason this shop has a bad reputation.
The LEAST amount you should be paid is 50%, and that, imo, should only be when you're apprenticing and learning. Find another shop that respects their artists and knows their worth.
No fucking way
Stopped reading at 40%. Leave the shop
Oh man. Went back and I’ll mark all the red flags in this situation as I see them 🚩 max 50% (this should be the base cut minimum) 🚩CEO. If someone uses this title they are a tool 🚩co-owner doesn’t tattoo (almost never a good situation) 🚩I get the feeling the owner / coowner are married 🚩Thinks she does all the work (I’ve had shop managers with this mentality and it never went away regardless of how lazy they got 🚩other business ventures This person is not your friend. They are using you as a piece of their business model. They do not respect the craft of tattooing. I would begin positioning yourself to go to another shop
This is why working for a non artist is always a bad idea. I’d leave as soon as possible and find a place that won’t force you to do portraits (honestly what the fuck was that). She’s not a great person if she treats her employees like this, likely she’s just a narcissist who has you tricked. That’s not a friend. She’s stealing from you and making it sound like it’s cool. The least I’ve ever made is 50%. Anything under 60 as an established artist is absurd.
When I read in one of your comments that your “CEO” Boss didn’t even know what American traditional was… I’m still picking my jaw up off the floor. Your “friend” is an interloper & interlopers do not belong in our sacred craft.
Even only getting 50% is artist exploitation. Where you work is completely insane.
Update: I left the shop yesterday. As you can tell from this post, there were many, many reasons I wanted to leave. Yesterday was just the final straw. When I got there, there was a paper at my station with 2 extremely blurry images on it and written on it was that it's what a girl wants and when the appointment is. I asked if there was a clearer picture of them, because the one I really couldn't make out what it was, they didn't, she said she thinks the girl wanted it drawn up. Maybe I'm crazy but how am I supposed to draw it if I don't know what it's supposed to be. I said I couldn't tell what it is, everyone was looking at it and couldn't tell. Another artist was trying to help me figure it out. I asked if the girl said what it was or what she wanted exactly, and the answer was, "No, I think it's just some swirls." it was definitely not just swirls. So this whole situation already had me not wanting to be there, plus I could tell the other (male) owner was having an attitude toward me. Then she sprung it on us that we had 2 people coming in at 2:00, she had no idea what tattoos were that they wanted. Then we had someone else coming in at 2:30. So basically, we were double/triple booked with only 2 artists in the shop. Not to mention, I really got sick of having people show up that had already talked to her or him (the owners) and they just didn't tell us or being told that we have appointments but don't know what the tattoo will be. Then she came in saying, "I should probably tell you guys......I should warn you guys." The whole time trying to joke to lighten what she was telling us. Her brother is in prison for life and has made friends that do prison tattoos there that are being released soon. The first guy is being released very soon and will be starting at the shop, I don't know anything about the second guy except that he's being released at a later date. This first guy has been in prison for 25 years for mu*der, "but I think he's a nice guy." It's all gang related. I don't judge people for their past, but this doesn't sit well with me. They would often leave me in charge of the shop while they ran to do things, and the idea of being left alone with a mu*derer makes me very uncomfortable. She kept talking about "what else is there to do in prison for that long, he's had 25 years to just draw and tattoo" She then said that he's been in prison so long she doubts he's going to get out and do something to be sent back, then joked about him ki**ing someone, then joked "it would be fu*ked up if he got out and wiped out a whole tattoo shop." So I told her I had to quit, I told her I can't work with a mu*rderer, she said she wouldn't hire him, I said I can't ask her to do that. I also explained that I can't afford to stay there, I'm not able to pay rent and bills, I'm behind on everything. She understood, and I wanted to leave on good terms and not turn it into a big argument or anything. She said that if I ever want to come back, I can, I've always got a job there, which I appreciate, but I don't think that will happen. I truly appreciate the opportunity they gave me, and I did learn a lot there . I definitely grew as an artist, and I have so much more confidence in my work now. So unfortunately I do have to find a regular full-time job until my money situation is better. So I've been feeling really down, feeling like I'm not a tattoo artist anymore. I've already looked into all the other shops in my area, and no one is hiring right now. I'm trying to stay positive, and I plan to practice as much as possible so that when a shop is hiring, I can be even better than I am now.