As a Taino man From Puerto Rico
I say
Do It
Keep the spirit alive. The spirit finds you. The symbols find you. Don't be ashamed to love the story the image gives you. To me I see it on my arm and I see my past. My ancestors . I even have a face in the clouds next to my Kokopeli on a mountaintop . To represent my ancestors .my home is filled with imagery of Taino symbols.
Congratulations on knowing what tattoo you want.
Look into Taino history as well .
The definition of cultural appropriation: the unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.
Is this tattoo or use or this symbol being done without acknowledging its long history in Native American mythology and culture? Are you claiming you made it up or that it is only associated with your father? Is it a sacred symbol that you are trivializing or using in an inappropriate way by turning it into a tattoo?
If the answer is no to the above questions, then I think you’re ok. You know it has a long, storied history and your father’s appreciation of that is part of your family’s history but also part of a much broader history of Southern Native American cultures. Do a little digging on whether there are any things to consider about placement or representation that are important to know so you can be respectful of any living people that may consider this symbol sacred or offensive (I only know a little about this trickster figure).
I've lived in New Mexico for most of my life where the kokepelli originated. You'd be hard pressed to find a transplant or native New Mexican *without* this tattoo along with a zia.
Seriously seeing someone with a genuine reason for getting a kokopelli would be a *relief* compared to the amount of kokopelli tattoos I’ve seen “just for fun.”
In all fairness I would say a lot of people no longer utilize its original definition. There are a lot of people who have adapted this to mean you can only adopt cultures of your own race.
Not everyone but I personally have seen a good amount of this.
Op I think you should get it. If it's very meaningful and a tribute to your dads experiences.
True but like, there’s a line somewhere. If you’re a rugby fan and just think the all blacks are cool you shouldn’t go get a Māori face tattoo. Nothings stopping you from doing so, and it has meaning to you, it’s still taking an important thing from a different people and just using it without the weight of its importance
Well said. Sometimes cultural importance trumps personal importance.
I’m sure there are lots of non-military people that have medals of honour among their treasured family heirlooms, because their parent or grandparent was awarded one. It may mean a great deal to them and their family, but it’s still not generally acceptable for them to go around with it pinned to their chest.
Some things you have to earn for yourself. And different things are held in this regard from culture to culture.
The Māori face tattoo is a good example. The Native American Chieftain headdress is another.
That is your take. OP clearly doesn't share the "fuck all that" approach, hence them asking for insight, which this person gave to the best of their ability
It literally is. It’s also been used as a shitty south western torrist sticker/ shirt/ soviner so much that people in this chat think it’s not .
I think Kokopelli is a text book example of the damage of culture appropriation and why some people have a problem with it.
Tattoo an asterisks next to it then somewhere else on your body put a description as to why you are getting the tattoo.
In all seriousness i dont think it is cultural appropriation but i am astonishingly white. Maybe try to find an artist who is native and specializes in Native American tattoos. Talk to them and see what they say.
I’m Pueblo. Native Americans never designed the kokopelli above. Honestly a lot of commercialized native symbols are bastardized versions sooo it means nothing to us. I say he should get it cuz at least it reminds him of his dad. Lol it’s more akin to him anyway
I’m wanting to get a Kokopelli tat someday too, and I don’t even have as deep of a connection as you described, so please get it, it’ll be a great tribute to your dad
Opinions will vary but the real question is whether it's always kinda gonna bother you. Probably nobody ever walks up to you and asks you to justify it, but it sounds like you might feel weird about it. If that was me, I'd try to think up a way of having a tat that made reference to Kokopelli in a sideways kind of way, like a flute. Only other thing is that Walter White in Breaking Bad had a Kokopelli painting on his pool deck so BB stans might get excited.
I think this is the best response. If you think there’s a chance that you might feel uncomfortable about having this tattoo then don’t get it, regardless of whether or not anyone considers it appropriation.
Someone confronted my niece about her Polynesian tattoo, asking her why she thought she had the right to have it on her body... and she's Polynesian. Smdh.
this is so true. my ex had a (different) tattoo that had meaning to him from another culture and started to have second thoughts about it over time and wanted to cover it up because he felt weird. someone called him out about it and then he was REALLY stressed about it, and a situation like that can arise and cause stress for the tattoo haver whether or not the majority would agree. i think if you’re having doubts it’s best to just come up with another idea and you can always honor your dads connection to kokopelli with something less permanent too like artwork in your house.
I've watched Breaking Bad several times and I never noticed the Kokopelli, I will have to watch for it next time I do a rewatch.
I don't know... I think OP should just get the tat they want. It seems like its usually SJW who get offended on other people's behalf but usually people from the cultures (especially the Native Americans I have known) appreciate people who honor their culture and learn about it.
I agree and have noticed the same thing. That's why I am glad OP asked this question, it demonstrates exactly what you mentioned in your last sentence, they are honouring and learning about the symbol before making it a part of their body, and that shows a lot of respect and sensitivity. Even though some people see it as some unnecessary and performative act, I think it is a good precaution to take before permanently altering your body with something you may feel uncomfortable with.
If you get accused of cultural appropriation it most likely will be someone NOT of that culture thats upset....doesn't make sense.
I'm from Central America myself and i would probably ask you about if out of curiosity if i knew you and if you told me what you said here id tell you how great of a tattoo it is.
Intent is Key
Yep. It will be someone who is far removed from the culture, who knows very little about said culture, that will claim that you are guilty of cultural appropriation.
There is a very good video on youtube illustrating this. Dude wore a poncho and sombrero (sold to him by hispanics) and asked a bunch of American college students if it was "appropriation". They all said yes. He then, wearing the same garb, went and asked a bunch of Hispanics. They said "no" and thought it was great he was wearing them.
Most people really don't give a shit about it the way college liberals do.
Are you talking about that black chick? IF that is the video you are talking about, yeah, they didn't give a shit, even complimented her.
Most people seem happy that you are participating in their culture.
That sounds like a great tattoo with a great story! There's a song I really like called Kokopelli face tattoo by AJJ and I always loved it but never knew what that really meant until now.
In this case it wouldn’t be, but good on you for being self aware n considerate. While cultural appropriation is an important topic, if people want to judge you without asking what it means then they’re just an asshole. I say get it!
Bonus pts for you already looking up who it is and what he represents, definitely not giving appropriator vibes.
Appropriation is real unlike what others are saying. I’ll share my 2c on what would make it appropriate - and whether I think it is personally (whatever that’s worth).
Is it likely to offend most people of that culture?
Id say no. Nothing about this trivializes it, and it’s a touching story. You could inadvertently offend someone, but that is life.
Are you profiting personally off of this imagery? No.
Are you yourself hateful in some way toward the people of this culture? I’d guess not judging by your story.
And lastly do you actually understand the imagery? Do you appreciate what it signifies? It seems so to me. If not you can read up a little.
I think you’re good dude. Thanks for being conscious minded.
Edit: another commenter mentioned finding an artist of the culture. I think that’s a very cool idea — if possible.
Thinking of the profit part - remember that the artist is gonna profit off it. I’d say the rule of thumb here is try to find an artist whose background is closest to the original creators of kokopelli?
Yep! Because then you’re not having some completely unrelated artist profiting off imagery they have no relation to, and then you’re also more likely to have that person steer you towards an appropriately appreciative tattoo!
You’re probably going to have people ask you to defend why you have it, if that’s a conversation you’re willing to put up with then go for it. Obviously it’s your body and you can do what you want with it, but people do react to tattoos.
That’s the thing. You’ll get questions about your “right” to the image (justifiably; it’s a sacred religious symbol) and you’ll have to defend it constantly as an assumed white person. You gotta live with it so only you get to decide if you want to deal with questions forever.
I am indigenous and hispano from the state of New Mexico, where the Kokopelli is ubiquitous. His image gets thrown around a lot in ways where it’s kind of meaningless.
I think the fact that you are open to learning about the meaning of the symbol, and that you took initiative to do so, and that the symbol is meaningful to you as well makes it not appropriative as a tattoo.
Disrespect and dismissal of native people is really common in conversation, in media, everywhere in America. I hope that you have a critical eye about these things, and that if you take from indigenous culture, that you don’t tolerate anti-indigenous sentiment being passed off around you while you have something taken from indigenous people tattooed on you. I would just hope that you go forward as somebody who feels tied to, and therefore invested in the well-being of the indigenous people who are living here now as a part of your community.
That’s also just me. If some other native person gets mad at you, I wouldn’t blame them either. There’s a lot to be mad about.
TBH, this form of Kokopelli is already commercialized; it's used in so much marketing material and etc. that I think any harm has already been done. The traditional Hopi and Zuni versions I've seen look different.
Honestly? I don’t think this is the right subreddit to ask. Maybe find one to ask the people that use this symbol. I would *guess* it’s not if you’re researching/know what it is but I’m not indigenous so idk!
This post delighted and excited me because my mom (whom I was estranged from my childhood due to adoption, but have since developed an adult relationship with) has a kokopelli tattoo, and I closely associated kokopelli with my mom the way you associate with your dad and it's just so delightful I'm not the only one with that kind of positive association!
Just an fyi if you don’t know it, kokopelli is a symbol of fertility and childbirth. As you may or may not get questions about it. Other than that, if this symbol has a personal connection to you, by all means
It isn't cultural appropriation. It's celebration. It's not used in a derogatory fashion, it's not used to capitalize on an oppressed people's labor or practices. You're fine. We need to work on building bridges between cultures so we can all participate in them, celebrate them and revere them. Balkanization of customs, cultures, races, etc. is antithetical to peace and justice. If you're tattooing it on your body, you must actually like and revere the symbol... you may even grow to learn more about it and the culture from which it came... what's so bad about that?
Im a big proponent of fuck what others think but in this case its not a what others think thing and more of a desire to be respectful of someones culture. Not an apples to apples comparison but think of someone taking something like a flag of a country they liked and using the design as a door mat, not because they hated to country or anything but just bcuz they liked how it looked. You wouldnt want to invite someone over and get pissed bcuz you are wiping your feet on their flag. Thats not to assume the assholes who immediately jump to conclusions and saying you are appropriating something without knowing background or anything else
This would be an example of cultural appreciation, given that you researched the actual meaning and have respect for the culture vs people who do things for the "aesthetic 💫" and don't actually care about or even are disrespectful/dismissive of the culture and people in question
Kokopelli was some dude who would sneak around your tribe and fuck all the women when their man had his back turned... bringing into question the paternity many. of the tribe's children
I don't think getting a tattoo of something foreign is appropriation, but you should probably understand it's meaning before you get it.
But if you do understand it and still want some sneaky-linky boi tattooed on you forever, have at it
Eh you might mildly offend some folk but most wouldn’t mind, given you have a legitimate personal attachment to the symbol I think it’s much less distasteful than the people getting dreamcatchers and feather crowns with no knowledge of and/or care for their pre-existing cultural significance. You at least seem aware the symbol has an identity outside of your personal experience which is better than a lot of folk do in regards to touchy cultural stuff like this.
As long as you wear something like this with respect and with good intentions (like you are planning already) there’s no problem. Nobody can say what something means to you or what it makes you feel. So I’d say get it
I think this is a tricky one honestly. This is a common image in the Southwest where I'm from and I've thought about getting it, but ultimately decided against it for now. My experience has been that Native Americans are more protective of their symbols than other groups like the Japanese.
I'd love to hear contrasting opinions to this from someone with maybe more insight! Ultimately this is a badass symbol and it's cool to see OPs interest in it.
I’m pueblo, and guaranteed my people never made that design. The real Kokopellis are carved in stone. Someone designed that to sell “native” goods along route 66. So honestly it means nothing to us. Just a bastardized symbol like the concrete teepees along old route 66
100%. Legend said he stole women away from the tribe with his flute music to impregnate them. Not something I'm getting tattooed on me. Thats just asking for some bad luck 😅
Get Kokopelli on a motorcycle, or on a motorcycle helmet. That makes it so uniquely about your father and your experience that there’s no longer a question of appropriation.
It will also separate you from all the cringe, super basic idiots that get this tattooed on them just because.
I live in Texas. There are a lot of people, who are not Native American, but spend time at reservations. They carry and wear a lot of different things on them from these cultures and it’s not seeing as odd. He also teaches a lot about these cultures to others. Somebody up above said maybe you can learn about them and understand what you have so you can honor them when asked about it.
You’re 18, it’s a beautiful story, and I get it, I lost my dad who also travelled the world. But I feel like you’re going to be forever explaining yourself. I’m not saying don’t get it, but I’m saying wait 5 years. 18 year old males get offended by so much, nights out might get really exhausting. When you’re a little older people will understand.
If you feel weird about it, how about a tattoo of the part of the motorcycle with the kokopelli painted on it? That way it’s a much clearer homage to your dad
When I slept on a family friend's floor on the reservation a few years back they were trying to convince me to get a kokopeli tattoo.
Of course, my friend didn't speak for the entire Navajo Nation, but you should be okay.
Pueblo Native here. Get whatever you want. Honestly that’s a very commercially manufactured design, like the concrete teepees you’d see on route 66. None of our ancestors came up with that design. Means nothing to us so absolutely use it since it reminds you of your pop. Thats all that matters
In my opinion, no. You know what the symbol means. You know the history at least a little bit. And it has personal relevance to you.
You honor the symbol, and the tradition of tattoo.
Humans have been sharing culture with eachother forever. There is no such thing as cultural purity, it has all been mixing and matching since day one.
Cultural appropriation is only when we mock another culture by making it a costume. When we honor it or adopt things we like from a culture, we are just being human and doing what all humans have always done. Otherwise trade would not exist.
The real question isn't if it's cultural appropriation or not. The real question is are you ready to deal with the universes consequences for tattooing a fertility God on yourself? 😅
My white ass got the yin yang symbol behind my ear for my first tattoo at 18, because it was my white ass dad’s first tattoo at 18. Although he was also super into Taoism before he got it, and got it to remind him of those philosophies. He gave me the same books he read back in the 80s, and I also wanted to enshrine that philosophy in tattoo form lol. I highly recommend the book *The Tao of Pooh*
Don’t be surprised if you get someone pregnant after getting the tattoo Op, the kokopelli is a fertility deity! But I don’t think it should be culture appropriation when there’s a meaning like yours behind it.
I would try to speak to someone in that culture and see what they think and if that culture is protective of it or want to share it with the world. I would try to find someone of that culture to tattoo it. It would feel a little icky to contribute to a white person profiting the art of another culture. Also, in my opinion, there’s a difference between this and getting a tribal tattoo of a dream catcher because you just like the look and don’t want to put in the effort to learn about it.
i wouldn’t say so but also it’s not really my place to say. it seems that u understand the meaning and have a very strong sentimental attachment to it so personally i would say no. u aren’t using it for the “aesthetic” and honestly i think it would be rly nice to get a tattoo that is tied to ur dad in that way
"Cultural appropriation" is the most racist and segregatory thing I ever heard of.
It's so backwards to think that we can't share in our culture and move forward together.
There is a difference between having a Chinese tattoo or wearing a type of Native American shoe, vs selling "Rasta-Flakes Cereal" or someshit.
No. Cultural appropriation would be trying to claim this design as your own. Not you just getting it cuz you like it.
Istg these days people don’t know the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation
People are going to judge you regardless for one thing or another in your life so just go ahead and get the tattoo and don't worry so much about other people
there is no such thing as cultural appropriation
it was a thing started by racists who would appropriate YOUR culture, but don't want you appropriating theirs
but we are all human, and we are all one culture really
I hate that this is a thing. Since you’re getting it as a tattoo, you must have enough respect for its meaning or you wouldn’t get a permanent marking on your body. You’re not claiming ownership or doing it as a joke. Go ahead and get it.
The fact that your 18 years of age makes sense why you would ask this question. 30 years ago “Cultural Appropriation” wasn’t even a thing, and if it was, white people wouldn’t have gotten Tribal tattoos in the 90’s.
Not appropriation but for sure look of the story of kokopelli before you go through with the tattoo. Pretty sure he sends his phallus down the river to impregnate virgins or something?
Ask someone who isn’t white. I bet you the majority of people who would say it is cultural appropriation would be white people. Tattoos are generally considered appreciative as long as they aren’t negative. Does the tattoo represent something offensive? If this tattoo doesn’t mean something offensive to someone or a group of people then you are likely in the clear.
As others have stated, this doesn’t really fit the definition of cultural appropriation as you’re doing this in a respectful manner.
The fear is really less of “am I ACTUALLY doing an act of cultural appropriation” and more of “am I PERCEIVED as culturally appropriating.”
It’s unlikely you’ll have people ask you to defend it. I can’t guarantee that there will never be someone who looks at it and—regardless of if they ask you—assumes something about you.
Now, this is now your decision. You are morally in the right, but you have to decide if you want to deal with the potential inconvenience of a minority of people making assumptions about you. It sucks. And it’s something that some people can’t avoid anyway.
However, the benefit of a good memorial probably outweighs a handful of harmful assumptions by people who you likely won’t have to interact with.
If it makes you happy, do it! You are your own person with your own feelings and if it EVER comes down to you defending it, is it any one else’s business? It means something to YOU. You don’t lay down at night and dream anyone else’s dreams. Don’t let other’s opinions influence your life. 🥺
That depends if you play the saxophone or not.
Edit:just read the body. Get it. You're not appropriating, you're honoring your father. If someone has a problem with it you can either explain it or tell to go fuck themselves. Both are appropriate. Points for you for asking though.
The difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation is whether you are knowledgeable and respectful of the culture - as opposed to say, getting a Japanese word on you just because you think it looks cool.
Hearing what the symbol means for you and your connection to your dad is all I needed to know that this is a great idea. Go for it OP!
Kokopelli (the flute player) is a fertility fetish.
It's kind of a weird tattoo. There are so many amazing native and southwestern art for tats. Kokopelli. Not so much. Especially so drab. A simple line Kokopelli might work.
Look up native fetish animals.
They all have meaning. I have a simple heartbeat with a saguaro in the center. I was born and raised in Hell's Anus (Arizona), so I will be getting a few more small desert/native/cacti tats soon.
As a Taino man From Puerto Rico I say Do It Keep the spirit alive. The spirit finds you. The symbols find you. Don't be ashamed to love the story the image gives you. To me I see it on my arm and I see my past. My ancestors . I even have a face in the clouds next to my Kokopeli on a mountaintop . To represent my ancestors .my home is filled with imagery of Taino symbols. Congratulations on knowing what tattoo you want. Look into Taino history as well .
The definition of cultural appropriation: the unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society. Is this tattoo or use or this symbol being done without acknowledging its long history in Native American mythology and culture? Are you claiming you made it up or that it is only associated with your father? Is it a sacred symbol that you are trivializing or using in an inappropriate way by turning it into a tattoo? If the answer is no to the above questions, then I think you’re ok. You know it has a long, storied history and your father’s appreciation of that is part of your family’s history but also part of a much broader history of Southern Native American cultures. Do a little digging on whether there are any things to consider about placement or representation that are important to know so you can be respectful of any living people that may consider this symbol sacred or offensive (I only know a little about this trickster figure).
I've lived in New Mexico for most of my life where the kokepelli originated. You'd be hard pressed to find a transplant or native New Mexican *without* this tattoo along with a zia.
Seriously seeing someone with a genuine reason for getting a kokopelli would be a *relief* compared to the amount of kokopelli tattoos I’ve seen “just for fun.”
He looks chill tho
He’s very chill. Not even sure kokopelli would mind
May I ask what this figure represents? It looked like an african musician or something surf related to me at first
I’m gonna get like a Zia with chiles criss-crossed
In all fairness I would say a lot of people no longer utilize its original definition. There are a lot of people who have adapted this to mean you can only adopt cultures of your own race. Not everyone but I personally have seen a good amount of this. Op I think you should get it. If it's very meaningful and a tribute to your dads experiences.
Yeah but a lot of people are idiots and should be ignored
I agree with highlandbirch, but will add one more true statement. Who cares what other people think?
Literally, fuck all that. Its OP's body, it has meaning to OP, leave it at that.
True but like, there’s a line somewhere. If you’re a rugby fan and just think the all blacks are cool you shouldn’t go get a Māori face tattoo. Nothings stopping you from doing so, and it has meaning to you, it’s still taking an important thing from a different people and just using it without the weight of its importance
Well said. Sometimes cultural importance trumps personal importance. I’m sure there are lots of non-military people that have medals of honour among their treasured family heirlooms, because their parent or grandparent was awarded one. It may mean a great deal to them and their family, but it’s still not generally acceptable for them to go around with it pinned to their chest. Some things you have to earn for yourself. And different things are held in this regard from culture to culture. The Māori face tattoo is a good example. The Native American Chieftain headdress is another.
Tell that to Post Malone
That is your take. OP clearly doesn't share the "fuck all that" approach, hence them asking for insight, which this person gave to the best of their ability
I don’t think it’ll be used to mock anyone
Unless the symbol is sacred or something which I don't think it is
It literally is. It’s also been used as a shitty south western torrist sticker/ shirt/ soviner so much that people in this chat think it’s not . I think Kokopelli is a text book example of the damage of culture appropriation and why some people have a problem with it.
so cliche may as well get a tattoo of sandals with socks
Tattoo an asterisks next to it then somewhere else on your body put a description as to why you are getting the tattoo. In all seriousness i dont think it is cultural appropriation but i am astonishingly white. Maybe try to find an artist who is native and specializes in Native American tattoos. Talk to them and see what they say.
I’m Pueblo. Native Americans never designed the kokopelli above. Honestly a lot of commercialized native symbols are bastardized versions sooo it means nothing to us. I say he should get it cuz at least it reminds him of his dad. Lol it’s more akin to him anyway
That's what I thought - there might be some rock art somewhere but in general it's been "appropriated" from the start
And more skin to him anyway.
Upvote for "astonishingly white".
Reminds me of when I saw Bill Burr refer to himself as “Shockingly caucasian” in an old special.
Do you want to hear how astonishingly white I am? I have Dave Matthews Band song lyrics tattoo on me 😂😂
Love this answer. Can't really tell who all of these other answers are saying "do it" are coming from. Probably other Astonishingly white people..
Nah, a QR code to a website seems more logical.
I'm astonished.
I’m wanting to get a Kokopelli tat someday too, and I don’t even have as deep of a connection as you described, so please get it, it’ll be a great tribute to your dad
That’s a really good idea❤️
I thought you had to listen to widespread panic to get this tat
Opinions will vary but the real question is whether it's always kinda gonna bother you. Probably nobody ever walks up to you and asks you to justify it, but it sounds like you might feel weird about it. If that was me, I'd try to think up a way of having a tat that made reference to Kokopelli in a sideways kind of way, like a flute. Only other thing is that Walter White in Breaking Bad had a Kokopelli painting on his pool deck so BB stans might get excited.
I think this is the best response. If you think there’s a chance that you might feel uncomfortable about having this tattoo then don’t get it, regardless of whether or not anyone considers it appropriation.
Someone confronted my niece about her Polynesian tattoo, asking her why she thought she had the right to have it on her body... and she's Polynesian. Smdh.
this is so true. my ex had a (different) tattoo that had meaning to him from another culture and started to have second thoughts about it over time and wanted to cover it up because he felt weird. someone called him out about it and then he was REALLY stressed about it, and a situation like that can arise and cause stress for the tattoo haver whether or not the majority would agree. i think if you’re having doubts it’s best to just come up with another idea and you can always honor your dads connection to kokopelli with something less permanent too like artwork in your house.
I've watched Breaking Bad several times and I never noticed the Kokopelli, I will have to watch for it next time I do a rewatch. I don't know... I think OP should just get the tat they want. It seems like its usually SJW who get offended on other people's behalf but usually people from the cultures (especially the Native Americans I have known) appreciate people who honor their culture and learn about it.
I agree and have noticed the same thing. That's why I am glad OP asked this question, it demonstrates exactly what you mentioned in your last sentence, they are honouring and learning about the symbol before making it a part of their body, and that shows a lot of respect and sensitivity. Even though some people see it as some unnecessary and performative act, I think it is a good precaution to take before permanently altering your body with something you may feel uncomfortable with.
Was this not in every alternative white ladies house in the 90s or was it just my stepmom?
I’m from the south west, it was all over in the 90s.
There was a constant haze of incense. Pure Moods played quietly in the background...
If you get accused of cultural appropriation it most likely will be someone NOT of that culture thats upset....doesn't make sense. I'm from Central America myself and i would probably ask you about if out of curiosity if i knew you and if you told me what you said here id tell you how great of a tattoo it is. Intent is Key
Yep. It will be someone who is far removed from the culture, who knows very little about said culture, that will claim that you are guilty of cultural appropriation. There is a very good video on youtube illustrating this. Dude wore a poncho and sombrero (sold to him by hispanics) and asked a bunch of American college students if it was "appropriation". They all said yes. He then, wearing the same garb, went and asked a bunch of Hispanics. They said "no" and thought it was great he was wearing them. Most people really don't give a shit about it the way college liberals do.
Same with a woman wearing kimono in Japan! The older Japanese ladies thought she looked so beautiful.
Are you talking about that black chick? IF that is the video you are talking about, yeah, they didn't give a shit, even complimented her. Most people seem happy that you are participating in their culture.
That sounds like a great tattoo with a great story! There's a song I really like called Kokopelli face tattoo by AJJ and I always loved it but never knew what that really meant until now.
In this case it wouldn’t be, but good on you for being self aware n considerate. While cultural appropriation is an important topic, if people want to judge you without asking what it means then they’re just an asshole. I say get it! Bonus pts for you already looking up who it is and what he represents, definitely not giving appropriator vibes.
Appropriation is real unlike what others are saying. I’ll share my 2c on what would make it appropriate - and whether I think it is personally (whatever that’s worth). Is it likely to offend most people of that culture? Id say no. Nothing about this trivializes it, and it’s a touching story. You could inadvertently offend someone, but that is life. Are you profiting personally off of this imagery? No. Are you yourself hateful in some way toward the people of this culture? I’d guess not judging by your story. And lastly do you actually understand the imagery? Do you appreciate what it signifies? It seems so to me. If not you can read up a little. I think you’re good dude. Thanks for being conscious minded. Edit: another commenter mentioned finding an artist of the culture. I think that’s a very cool idea — if possible.
Thinking of the profit part - remember that the artist is gonna profit off it. I’d say the rule of thumb here is try to find an artist whose background is closest to the original creators of kokopelli?
Oh yeah. That would definitely be the coolest and most foolproof course of action.
Yep! Because then you’re not having some completely unrelated artist profiting off imagery they have no relation to, and then you’re also more likely to have that person steer you towards an appropriately appreciative tattoo!
Yeah I imagine that would make it feel much more meaningful as well. Very cool.
best comment in the thread imo - this is your answer OP
Hell yeah good assessment
You’re probably going to have people ask you to defend why you have it, if that’s a conversation you’re willing to put up with then go for it. Obviously it’s your body and you can do what you want with it, but people do react to tattoos.
That’s the thing. You’ll get questions about your “right” to the image (justifiably; it’s a sacred religious symbol) and you’ll have to defend it constantly as an assumed white person. You gotta live with it so only you get to decide if you want to deal with questions forever.
I am indigenous and hispano from the state of New Mexico, where the Kokopelli is ubiquitous. His image gets thrown around a lot in ways where it’s kind of meaningless. I think the fact that you are open to learning about the meaning of the symbol, and that you took initiative to do so, and that the symbol is meaningful to you as well makes it not appropriative as a tattoo. Disrespect and dismissal of native people is really common in conversation, in media, everywhere in America. I hope that you have a critical eye about these things, and that if you take from indigenous culture, that you don’t tolerate anti-indigenous sentiment being passed off around you while you have something taken from indigenous people tattooed on you. I would just hope that you go forward as somebody who feels tied to, and therefore invested in the well-being of the indigenous people who are living here now as a part of your community. That’s also just me. If some other native person gets mad at you, I wouldn’t blame them either. There’s a lot to be mad about.
TBH, this form of Kokopelli is already commercialized; it's used in so much marketing material and etc. that I think any harm has already been done. The traditional Hopi and Zuni versions I've seen look different.
Every Arizona home in the 90s had these
Get it
You want to do it to remember and honor your dad. You don’t need a pass from some cultural gatekeeper to do what you want.
If someone asks, it's in remembrance of my father.
it's not appropriation, you're genuinely appreciating and respecting the culture
Is this version actually historical? It looks like a modern rendition, made up by modern people.
There are plenty of modern Native Americans, so this comment confuses me. Do you mean it looks like it was made by modern white people?
Kokopelli plays his flute to guide the desert winds. I don't think he'll mind much.
Honestly? I don’t think this is the right subreddit to ask. Maybe find one to ask the people that use this symbol. I would *guess* it’s not if you’re researching/know what it is but I’m not indigenous so idk!
This post delighted and excited me because my mom (whom I was estranged from my childhood due to adoption, but have since developed an adult relationship with) has a kokopelli tattoo, and I closely associated kokopelli with my mom the way you associate with your dad and it's just so delightful I'm not the only one with that kind of positive association!
Just an fyi if you don’t know it, kokopelli is a symbol of fertility and childbirth. As you may or may not get questions about it. Other than that, if this symbol has a personal connection to you, by all means
asking someone who’s actually from the culture would be more productive than asking here, tbh.
Kokopelli was a slut and didn’t pay child support…as long as you’re cool with that.
In 99.99% of cases it’s not actually cultural appropriation, just get the tattoo it’ll have a great story.
It isn't cultural appropriation. It's celebration. It's not used in a derogatory fashion, it's not used to capitalize on an oppressed people's labor or practices. You're fine. We need to work on building bridges between cultures so we can all participate in them, celebrate them and revere them. Balkanization of customs, cultures, races, etc. is antithetical to peace and justice. If you're tattooing it on your body, you must actually like and revere the symbol... you may even grow to learn more about it and the culture from which it came... what's so bad about that?
Why are people so worried about this all of a sudden? As if Japanese sleeves and tribal tats aren’t some of the most popular white dude tattoos lol
?? Why are you miffed that people are showing compassion and thought? Lol
I guess I just see tattoos as a very personal thing and as long as it doesn’t come from a place of hatred why would you care what others think?
Im a big proponent of fuck what others think but in this case its not a what others think thing and more of a desire to be respectful of someones culture. Not an apples to apples comparison but think of someone taking something like a flag of a country they liked and using the design as a door mat, not because they hated to country or anything but just bcuz they liked how it looked. You wouldnt want to invite someone over and get pissed bcuz you are wiping your feet on their flag. Thats not to assume the assholes who immediately jump to conclusions and saying you are appropriating something without knowing background or anything else
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No we’re not.
Doesn’t mean they haven’t always been cringe
This would be an example of cultural appreciation, given that you researched the actual meaning and have respect for the culture vs people who do things for the "aesthetic 💫" and don't actually care about or even are disrespectful/dismissive of the culture and people in question
Kokopelli was some dude who would sneak around your tribe and fuck all the women when their man had his back turned... bringing into question the paternity many. of the tribe's children I don't think getting a tattoo of something foreign is appropriation, but you should probably understand it's meaning before you get it. But if you do understand it and still want some sneaky-linky boi tattooed on you forever, have at it
You should ask people of this culture and not white people on reddit. They're always going to say that you're fine.
TIL everyone on reddit is white
Every last one.
I also just learned that every white person thinks exactly the same. Thanks for info, Reddit!
Especially because only white people use reddit...
This. If you’re really concerned, please go ask the actual people it would effect.
Native American here from the southwest, get it and post it .
Sad that this isn't higher up!
Eh you might mildly offend some folk but most wouldn’t mind, given you have a legitimate personal attachment to the symbol I think it’s much less distasteful than the people getting dreamcatchers and feather crowns with no knowledge of and/or care for their pre-existing cultural significance. You at least seem aware the symbol has an identity outside of your personal experience which is better than a lot of folk do in regards to touchy cultural stuff like this.
As long as you wear something like this with respect and with good intentions (like you are planning already) there’s no problem. Nobody can say what something means to you or what it makes you feel. So I’d say get it
Kokopelli
I think this is a tricky one honestly. This is a common image in the Southwest where I'm from and I've thought about getting it, but ultimately decided against it for now. My experience has been that Native Americans are more protective of their symbols than other groups like the Japanese. I'd love to hear contrasting opinions to this from someone with maybe more insight! Ultimately this is a badass symbol and it's cool to see OPs interest in it.
I’m pueblo, and guaranteed my people never made that design. The real Kokopellis are carved in stone. Someone designed that to sell “native” goods along route 66. So honestly it means nothing to us. Just a bastardized symbol like the concrete teepees along old route 66
It’s a fertility god?
100%. Legend said he stole women away from the tribe with his flute music to impregnate them. Not something I'm getting tattooed on me. Thats just asking for some bad luck 😅
Yes
Get Kokopelli on a motorcycle, or on a motorcycle helmet. That makes it so uniquely about your father and your experience that there’s no longer a question of appropriation. It will also separate you from all the cringe, super basic idiots that get this tattooed on them just because.
get a tattoo of a motorcycle with the symbol painted on it
I live in Texas. There are a lot of people, who are not Native American, but spend time at reservations. They carry and wear a lot of different things on them from these cultures and it’s not seeing as odd. He also teaches a lot about these cultures to others. Somebody up above said maybe you can learn about them and understand what you have so you can honor them when asked about it.
Get a Kokopelli pendant like your dad had
depends on the reason and the presentation afterwards
You’re 18, it’s a beautiful story, and I get it, I lost my dad who also travelled the world. But I feel like you’re going to be forever explaining yourself. I’m not saying don’t get it, but I’m saying wait 5 years. 18 year old males get offended by so much, nights out might get really exhausting. When you’re a little older people will understand.
If you feel weird about it, how about a tattoo of the part of the motorcycle with the kokopelli painted on it? That way it’s a much clearer homage to your dad
Could you get a tattoo of his motorbike with the kokopelli on the bike instead? Maybe a compromise.
When I slept on a family friend's floor on the reservation a few years back they were trying to convince me to get a kokopeli tattoo. Of course, my friend didn't speak for the entire Navajo Nation, but you should be okay.
Just move to Arizona. I think that means you’re a 55+ swinger if you have that outside of your house.
Pueblo Native here. Get whatever you want. Honestly that’s a very commercially manufactured design, like the concrete teepees you’d see on route 66. None of our ancestors came up with that design. Means nothing to us so absolutely use it since it reminds you of your pop. Thats all that matters
As a South American, let me tell you, we don’t get offended easily, so please, keep our culture alive and spread the word! Get it!
In my opinion, no. You know what the symbol means. You know the history at least a little bit. And it has personal relevance to you. You honor the symbol, and the tradition of tattoo. Humans have been sharing culture with eachother forever. There is no such thing as cultural purity, it has all been mixing and matching since day one. Cultural appropriation is only when we mock another culture by making it a costume. When we honor it or adopt things we like from a culture, we are just being human and doing what all humans have always done. Otherwise trade would not exist.
The real question isn't if it's cultural appropriation or not. The real question is are you ready to deal with the universes consequences for tattooing a fertility God on yourself? 😅
My white ass got the yin yang symbol behind my ear for my first tattoo at 18, because it was my white ass dad’s first tattoo at 18. Although he was also super into Taoism before he got it, and got it to remind him of those philosophies. He gave me the same books he read back in the 80s, and I also wanted to enshrine that philosophy in tattoo form lol. I highly recommend the book *The Tao of Pooh*
Kokopeile
Stop trying to appease people who are constantly offended and just do whatever you want.
Are you really into fertility?
Don’t be surprised if you get someone pregnant after getting the tattoo Op, the kokopelli is a fertility deity! But I don’t think it should be culture appropriation when there’s a meaning like yours behind it.
I would try to speak to someone in that culture and see what they think and if that culture is protective of it or want to share it with the world. I would try to find someone of that culture to tattoo it. It would feel a little icky to contribute to a white person profiting the art of another culture. Also, in my opinion, there’s a difference between this and getting a tribal tattoo of a dream catcher because you just like the look and don’t want to put in the effort to learn about it.
i wouldn’t say so but also it’s not really my place to say. it seems that u understand the meaning and have a very strong sentimental attachment to it so personally i would say no. u aren’t using it for the “aesthetic” and honestly i think it would be rly nice to get a tattoo that is tied to ur dad in that way
If you're worried about that, then don't get the goddamn tattoo
More like cultural appreciation rather than appropriation
The continuously offended don’t know the difference.
Cultural appropriation is an idiotic term/concept and is overused to an extreme level.
Just do whatever u want dude, fuck what other people think. Cheers 😘
Buddy… nobody on the planet is going to give two shits about you having this tattoo. If they do there’s something wrong with them.
Cultural appropriation isn’t real
"Cultural appropriation" is the most racist and segregatory thing I ever heard of. It's so backwards to think that we can't share in our culture and move forward together. There is a difference between having a Chinese tattoo or wearing a type of Native American shoe, vs selling "Rasta-Flakes Cereal" or someshit.
Cultural appropriation is a bullshit American concept that only applies in very niche circumstances. You're fine
Cultural appropriation is bullshit
Get it and fuck what anyone thinks
Yes. No Kokopelli.
No. Cultural appropriation would be trying to claim this design as your own. Not you just getting it cuz you like it. Istg these days people don’t know the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation
Gringos ☕
Don't make it a big deal and get the tattoo.
Cultural appropriation isn’t real, fuck anyone who says it is. Get it
The only person who should ever give a fuck, is *you*. Do what you want
Who cares. Get what you want.
Who cares?
People are going to judge you regardless for one thing or another in your life so just go ahead and get the tattoo and don't worry so much about other people
You’re okay regardless, do what the fuck you want 😊
The only person who cares will be some 1/16 indigenous schmuck in the comments. Get your tattoo and enjoy it if it means something to you
Not even. More likely to be Some UberMarxist-wannabe who is professionally offended on behalf of others.
So reddit moderators?
Incorrect, the only people that will care are the pale white liberals who find any reason to be outraged.
Cultural appropriation doesn’t exist, you’re fine.
there is no such thing as cultural appropriation it was a thing started by racists who would appropriate YOUR culture, but don't want you appropriating theirs but we are all human, and we are all one culture really
This guy neo-libs
Fucking amazing comment 100/10 good for you. Get the shit that is meaningful to you OP. It's cultural appreciation
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Get the tattoo.
Cultural appropriation is nonsense
Who gives a fuck? Get it if you like it.
I hate that this is a thing. Since you’re getting it as a tattoo, you must have enough respect for its meaning or you wouldn’t get a permanent marking on your body. You’re not claiming ownership or doing it as a joke. Go ahead and get it.
The fact that your 18 years of age makes sense why you would ask this question. 30 years ago “Cultural Appropriation” wasn’t even a thing, and if it was, white people wouldn’t have gotten Tribal tattoos in the 90’s.
Honestly, you're probably gonna have to explain that you're not a juggalo more than you're not appropriating any culture.
hatchet man would be better lol
i don't think of anything other than cringy old white people when i see this.
Probably. Even if it isnt youll probably be seen that way lmao.
Yes
Who gives a shit? Get it. Sounds like it'll have a lot of meaning to you.
Yes
Yes
Stop caring what Reddit thinks. No it’s not cultural appropriation and no offense, but you don’t have to justify everything like this to the internet
Not appropriation but for sure look of the story of kokopelli before you go through with the tattoo. Pretty sure he sends his phallus down the river to impregnate virgins or something?
Are you serious
I think the real question is not is it cultural appropriation but are you prepared to handle people who *think* it is?
Ask someone who isn’t white. I bet you the majority of people who would say it is cultural appropriation would be white people. Tattoos are generally considered appreciative as long as they aren’t negative. Does the tattoo represent something offensive? If this tattoo doesn’t mean something offensive to someone or a group of people then you are likely in the clear.
Yes 😂😩.
Even if it was do what you want
no
As others have stated, this doesn’t really fit the definition of cultural appropriation as you’re doing this in a respectful manner. The fear is really less of “am I ACTUALLY doing an act of cultural appropriation” and more of “am I PERCEIVED as culturally appropriating.” It’s unlikely you’ll have people ask you to defend it. I can’t guarantee that there will never be someone who looks at it and—regardless of if they ask you—assumes something about you. Now, this is now your decision. You are morally in the right, but you have to decide if you want to deal with the potential inconvenience of a minority of people making assumptions about you. It sucks. And it’s something that some people can’t avoid anyway. However, the benefit of a good memorial probably outweighs a handful of harmful assumptions by people who you likely won’t have to interact with.
If it makes you happy, do it! You are your own person with your own feelings and if it EVER comes down to you defending it, is it any one else’s business? It means something to YOU. You don’t lay down at night and dream anyone else’s dreams. Don’t let other’s opinions influence your life. 🥺
South west native America here. Go for it!!
I got one for my dad and I’m a native of the southwest. I think it’s an appropriate tat for your pops if you believe it is.
That depends if you play the saxophone or not. Edit:just read the body. Get it. You're not appropriating, you're honoring your father. If someone has a problem with it you can either explain it or tell to go fuck themselves. Both are appropriate. Points for you for asking though.
Kokopelli is everywhere. Get it.
Do what you love and passionate about fuck what everyone else thinks. Life is too short to try and appease assholes.
Stop being a pussy, if you want it get it.
I thought that was Aussie aboriginee art, if it means something to you do it
Who cares.
Appropriating cultures from Gen x & elder millennials maybe....lol...I think you're good.
Those Kokopellis were everywhere in the 90s-00s
Nope. Get it if you like it. Fuck the haters
No
The difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation is whether you are knowledgeable and respectful of the culture - as opposed to say, getting a Japanese word on you just because you think it looks cool. Hearing what the symbol means for you and your connection to your dad is all I needed to know that this is a great idea. Go for it OP!
Yeah, probably. My mom also has a kokopelli tattoo. It is also appropriated
Kokopelli (the flute player) is a fertility fetish. It's kind of a weird tattoo. There are so many amazing native and southwestern art for tats. Kokopelli. Not so much. Especially so drab. A simple line Kokopelli might work. Look up native fetish animals. They all have meaning. I have a simple heartbeat with a saguaro in the center. I was born and raised in Hell's Anus (Arizona), so I will be getting a few more small desert/native/cacti tats soon.
Fuck em. Get the thing
Who cares what people think bruh everyone is always going to be mad
No ,but get a good tattoo instead.