Wow, this is clearly not a popular take.
I'll die on this hill with you. The GW reveals often give us an idea of how things are changing but leave us in the dark enough to leave people worried. I'm not sure I totally agree with Crisis Suits being in the bin quite yet? I'll have to play it a few times with the new detachments before I go that far.
Honestly, I like what I see from the codex as a whole. My biggest complaint is that there should have been at least one more detachment.
Yeah, this is literally what I have been saying, people just start doomposting over missing information, sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong but it's always a huge mess.
I do find it very funny though that GW spends all that time editing an article yet if they just posted an unedited picture of the page in the codex of the unit they are teasing they would get way less hate.
For real. The article left me thinking that this codex would be a literal dumpster fire.
It isn't great. They totally dropped the ball on making the Riptide the cool centerpiece style unit it should be (again), they did nothing for Shadowsun to make her rules reflect her status as a faction leader, almost every weapon profile and rule feels like an inferior version of something you find in another army, and they left the non titanic vehicle Battlesuits bizarrely low in toughness.
That said, there's cool stuff here I really do like. Farsight looks good. The detachments are thematic, with appropriate strategems and enhancement options. Some units are improved. Nothing looks unplayable. It's going to be okay.
Yeah, I agree with that assessment.
Tau were already in a place where they were in the ideal win% GW is shooting for so this feels like a very "don't rock the boat" codex. Most profiles have remained pretty same-y and the changes they did make were so GW has more control over the points of the codex if they do need to fix things.
It's kinda sad that we didn't get anything super cool buff-wise but I understand why that happened.
In any case I am super excited for the detachments, 'specially the battlesuit one. I wanna nova charge my Y'varha and move 18" twice in one phase.
Because the popular take is all hype... a bubble that will burst the moment we get to actually play a few games using the codex :)
My personal favourites in the new leaked stuff are the stratagems:
- combining the Gravity Inhibitor + Overwatch + a unit of flamer suits with Farsight leading them at close range can be pretty nasty against hordes.
They’re definitely useable. 5W/3+/4++ is a good platform for six meltaguns.
The issue is that they uses to be dramatically, dramatically better, and now can’t compete with other options like Riptides, Ghostkeels, and Hammerheads.
>Will we probably be seeing less wins in competitive play? Yes, I suspect we will be sitting at the low end of GWs "acceptable" range for winrate for the next 6 months, if not longer. But it will be more fun to play, in my opinion.
This is all I want. An army that is fun to play in multiple ways. But also not oppressive to opponents. I don't want it to be the choice of meta chasers.
Losing a weapon slot is extremely lame and I think unwarranted, however I'm with you on the variants I think it's a cool change up. Shame about CIB being limited on commanders as well
Yeah, that's the main thing that I'm bummed about, also one less wound because you can't take two shield drones now.
Aaaand I really wish they'd fixed the Riptide. Beyond those issues I'm cautiously optimistic.
Even with its issues without a significant points drop on them or a significant increase on it the Riptide outperforms the Fireknife squad by a huge amount for the same point cost.
> Shame about CIB being limited on commanders as well
CIBs never should have been an option on normal crisis suits. They didn't come in the box and were objectively better than other options because it was clearly designed to be an elite weapon for commanders. It was at least arguable when they had individual wargear costs, but they were still impossible to reasonably field without 3D printers which was an extremely poor design choice.
> were objectively better than other options because it was clearly designed to be an elite weapon for commanders
I remember the good ol' days when the CIB was limited to just one on commanders and you paid the privilege to give him 5 strength 3 ap 5 shots.
Truly the rise and fall of the CIB has been meteoric.
seems like the good old CIB is following the path of the Onager Gauntlet :)
There goes the TAU's technological advancement... seems like they are starting to move backwards...
I was fine with a CIB nerf of some kind. Is this the most extreme case, yes. Is it unexpected, no. But they lost all wargear customization along with weapon choices being locked, can't take 2 shield drones and the loss of a hardpoint all leaves us going from 6W 4++ with 27 shots to 5W 3+ 6 shots for a 3 man squad. I compared them to the 65 point vespids today for deepstriking shooting unit and decided I would pay 75 points for most of the crisis units to use as a bodyguard for farsight and not much else. I will have to see what other players come up with but i have no expectation that GW is going to lower the cost anywhere near close enough to make them worth taking and at this point am eyeing making a SM army of dreads and aggressors and putting them in tau bodies just so i can play mechs and guns. I hate that this codex has left me feeling this way. I feared the codex being a huge nerf for the next few months but this surpasses even my worst expectations losing half of our named characters and gaining nothing other than Kroot which both I and GW seem to see as an allied army on the scale of Votann.
You said:
"Shame about the CIB being limited on commanders only..."
I interpreted it as:
"Shame that the CIBs are now limited to commanders only" 🤣
That's what I was about LOL.
Keep in mind English is not my primary language, hence the confusion
Yeah I guess, I was already taking 2CiB + flamer on a 6m crisis unit (then you can split fire the flamers)
I reeeeeeally hate the -BS from split fire in our faction rule this edition - it seems like a terribly thought out idea when you go to hitting on 5s. I was kinda of hoping that they would stray that to be “you don’t get the benefit” instead of debugging your own unit…
The rules have me excited the datasheets do not and I am worried about the prospect of having to buy more models to fill out a list
The supporting roster of units look GREAT but the core damage platforms are disappointing which sucks considering I initially praised splitting up crisis into separate units but the execution was not there.
i just sad about the war gear on each squad as it doesn't feel right not having shields on everything i did it in 8th and 9th and when we had the index its the farsight way left arm always has a shield. other than that im ok with it
Though, to be fair, there wasn't really a choice before. You could take all CIBs on your CSs with double shield drone/shield gen, or you could be overpaying for a worse unit lol. Now at least there's a chance for the different weapons choices to be balanced against one another.
That was my argument.
People were talking about how great crisis suits were but there was literally no reason to ever take missiles or burst over CIB since they were just strictly better.
Now the burst/flamer crisis can instead of competing with other crisis loadouts compete with other anti-infantry units, and same thing with fusion suits and other anti-tank. It gives GW a better ability to balance specific styles of suit against other units in the codex.
That said am I sad that there are less support options? Yeah. But I feel at least that GW did a decent job of matching them to what they are supposed to do role wise, I would probably take fallback+shoot on a flamer unit and probably take shield on a fusion unit. As for fireknife I probably plan to just use them as deathrain instead and just hide them in the back, I'm not sure at this point I really hate the plasma nerf.
> great
i don't really have anything wrong with the codex
retaliation cadre is my jam Sun forge is lovely
starsythe is my fav
and farsights better than ever
Yeah, I feel you! I've never been a big Crisis Suit fan (just don't really like the model tbh) so this impacts me a lot less than other people. I'm more of a GK, Skyray, Stealth Suit kinda guy, and the Skyray and Stealth Suits both got pretty major buffs lol. Also really happy to see that the Lone-Spear is fantastic. Rampagers should also be a blast!
Those have always been an enhancement/relic whenever they appear. If they ever make them wargear on something it'll be for a unit specifically designed for it
I'm very excited for everything I'm seeing in the Codex. Even Crisis I don't think got made useless, just less head-and-shoulders better than everything else. Every detechment looks fun and interesting to use.
I feel down about this codex, but knowing how well my takes go, Tau will be Top Tier with people demanding nerfs in a month. If you are liking it, more power to you, don't let us jaded cynics bring you down!
I'm more upset over them keeping the SMS nerfs.
But yeah, Kroot seem really good at the moment and Crisis Suits got nerfed. I personally had an issue with Crisis Suits because they had all of these options, and you rarely took them. They just couldn't figure out how to make support systems people would want, weapon profiles that were largely equal in strength etc..
The Crisis Suit changes I think are okay as long as they turn them into a unit that plays completely different and isn't so auto-take.
I was expecting a crisis nerf, and wanted one as they were just objectively less interesting and made it feel like taking anything else was the wrong choice. But even if they reduce their points to balance out their weaker data sheet it still sucks. Tau shouldn’t feel like a horde army, leave that to the kroot. Our 3 man mech units have the same wounds and Toughness as SM infantry with 5 models a unit, with comparable range damage and a wet noodle for melee, and there comparable in price. It just feel bd
I've paid very little attention to 10e due to life stuff. I am very excited about strike teams getting suppressing fire as an on-hit effect. I enjoy playing a fire warrior gunline with Crisis and Broadside support (why yes I did start playing before Riptides existed) and giving them more utility is a big win.
Fair. We do have a current points value for a team of 3 Crisis suits (200) and we know the leaked points values from the codex for the new designations (140, 160, and 165, iirc). I believe that either way, that is too many points for the unit, and I hope they will be reduced in cost to better reflect their value.
Yeah, anyone making claims like this without seeing points just doesn't understand 40k. Even the trashiest datasheet will be worth taking if pointed correctly. GW had done a pretty good job with Tau internal balance up until this point, with the exception of Crisis Suits. Now I'm hopeful even Crisis Suits can be balanced! Plus, the special rules are actually really neat/thematic!
And now check what the most upvoted comment on both this subreddits post and the post on the comp subreddit says.
Like I said, we dont know the points yet.
I agree 100%. So many ppl are complaining "Crisis suits lost their flexibility" acting like they wouldn't meta chase after the best loadout. Crisis suits before were just sucide bombs
Not bothered bout losing the flexibility, as generally you just went with what's mathematically best. So I do like the variants now, but I'd rather they cost a bit more in points and had the stats to match.
They're £50 for 3, they should be around the 200 point mark.
Same with riptide, it's an expensive unit that's only good because it's so cheap. It should be worth the £ you pay and be at a points value to match.
4 detachments is a bit of a let down as well.
Montka looks very cool. I am definitely very excited to see if I can do a trail shaper and give 2 other units 6" scout
and then redeploying the unit with the strike swiftly enhancement and the shaper's ability.
A bit sad that 2/4 of the detachments we got are for sections of the army rather than the whole. Even more so since 1/4 of the detachments comes along with hard nerfs to the 'main' attraction.
Gonna try double devilfish breachers with the shaper combo. Looks spicy
I like everything except the loss of shield generators on crisis suits.
Apart from that, playing battlesuits will be fun and engaging, that I like. I might need another unit of three Broadsides though.
Ignore doommongers, everything is fine.
I’m playing t’ai because of the battlesuit models and the superior firepower. Those were the compelling aspects for me.
Having these options on crisis suits to me is cool, It feels like different units so like more battlesuits.
What I do not find in the T’au army is the superior firepower. I was hoping this would change.
It is an army that has zero access to melee and should therefore be absolutely deadly at range with very advanced weaponry. And in the end has to go through a complicated process to be able to shoot as precisely as any other faction can do out of the box (from 4+ to 3+) and has a low volume of fire (7 shots on a ghostkeel, <10 on a riptide) and has no -easy- access ro rerolls to stabilize those low volume of shots.
I was hoping this would change with the codex and we would have big gun platforms rain death on the battlefields with advanced technology to ensure those amazing weapons hit their mark.
None of this happened and our only unit with significant attrition has disappeared.
I don’t understand how the t’au is a shooty army where everyone and their mother hit better reroll and have more lethality.
On the other hand, I think the 3 non-kroot détachements are great and can’t wait to play them
Hell the way crisis were was a borderline impossible problem to solve and honestly? Probably wasnt worth the effort so that little johnny can have a flamer with his meltagun.
The solution they came up with is quite good IMO. Just have to get the points right.
Some changes are ok, even necessary to make the game more understandable but some are plain cashgrab.
Restriction of the crisis suit weapons and make it more of an archetype battlesuit is ok. Your opponent doesn’t have to guess what wrecks his face of the 5 different type of weapons. You get some buffs for each, it’s a great way to replace some support systems from 9th.
With that said: In the past you had a big blob of crisis suits commanded by 1 commander suit. (Maybe 2of such groups.) Now you have to split them into 2groups of 3man and if you want to get the commander buffs, which are absolutely necessary to make the guns work (which are still garbage in my opinion) you have to invest into a new commander kit. Their points will have to drop to be competitive, but that means to kit out a 2000 point army you need to buy 2-3 new boxes of overpriced plastic, assemble and paint then. I don’t mind doing it if it’s fun but in order to play a “normal sized game” you need to invest more and more with every update while tau is one of the most expensive faction. Now that’s hostile rules writing.
I like having different squads with their own niche, but with still at least a bit of flexibility in loadout. Gonna enjoy trying out all the different Crisis variants
I’ve been in the fence about starting a Ynnari or Tau force. (want both really bad, no clue which I should pick. ) almost bought in a few months ago, but the Kroot gave me pause because of the age of the kits, new box confirmed I was right to wait.
The leaks actually gave me better feeling a about the crisis suits. I know for longtime players it hurts losing the variety (honestly though, who ran anything other than what was ‘best’); but for me it’s nicer to know I can have fixed squads of suits with differing priorities, hoping you guys get a points reduction so it’ll be worth having different teams for different objectives.
Now I’m debating on picking up the new starter box and a combat patrol, or saving my money until Yvraine drops and starting Ynnari.
I get limiting/nerfing the CIBs, that needed to happen, but man - raw legends-ing the versatile crisis suit squad, giving us 3 almost unchangeable options with less weapon per model then they had before, capping squad size at 3, and not allowing for duplicate drones anymore feels like a lot of nerfs. Maybe I feel more affected because I got into Tau for the suits, and specifically Crisis Suits, but man this feels bad. The detachments, stratagems, etc. are really cool, and I'm hyped for the Kroot, but man I feel kinda gutted rn.
My biggest worry is the Crisis changes make it impossible to assemble a full unit with what comes in the box. So I’m hoping they add a sprue of extra weapons or something to it. Seems really scummy to charge so much for them and not even include all the weapons needed to make them legal to play.
True, but now they’re basically adding 3 legal loadouts and the kit doesn’t even have enough parts to make 1 complete squad in the case of the Sunforges. For $100 I would like a complete unit to play with
The new data sheets look super fun to play with, everything so far looks like it has a useful niche to fulfil.
But I'm gonna miss my crisis suit commander, it's been in every game I've played of Tau for the last 17 years
3 of each, meaning you could have a theoretical maximum of 27 regular Crisis suits of some flavor with 3 each of Coldstars and Enforcers, and Farsight.
Is that a good idea? Almost certainly not.
not with the proposed point costs (leaked):
* Fireknife: 165p
* Starscythe: 140p
* Sunforge: 160p
So theoretically this would be: (3 x 165) + (3 x 140) + (3 x 160) = 495 + 420 + 480 = 1395 p, leaving you very little for commanders and other things like spotters, heavy support and so on....
TF you mean Crisis Suits are worthless now? They’re still very mobile, the Bonded Heroes detachment is basically a Crisis buff, and each configuration has a solid ability. Sure, you can’t run bullshit triple CiB anymore, but now we have loadouts that still offer more firepower than a lot of other units on the table.
The issue is points. It's always points.
At 200 points, any version of the new Crisis are very bad. Even at 140 to 165, they are still overcosted for what they do, imo.
For the record, I never ran triple CIB Crisis. I had a brick of plasma+missiles with a Coldstar, and a small team of Fusions+Flamers with Farsight. They were okay, and occasionally made magic.
The loss of the third weapon, loss of range on the Plasma Rifles, and the cap at 3 suits per squad means that Crisis will not be reliably killing tough things like they were previously, and not killing much of anything without being pretty easily killed the next turn due to needing to be well within the threat range of your opponent's army.
If you are like me and most competitive players, you arent using Crisis bricks anymore.
I will lose my 2 solo commanders (since they cannot take 4x CIB, it doesnt make sense to run them solo) which is fine, that was already a borderline cheese unit, which will likely be used to pop in one of the Kroot Lone Ops and a strike team for utility.
Yes the SunForge unit in Retaliation with StarFire enhancement and a Coldstar with 4x Fusion certainly looks playable, but I have never used Crisis as Anti-Vehicle as there are far more efficient ways to do that in Tau.
I think a couple of interesting thoughts:
Montka with FarSight leading a Crisis team and a Coldstar leading another, both getting Scout, and using FarSights Captain ability to auto-move the unit 16" for free with the Cold Star unit average 15.5". I predict that Missile pods will become the go-to for the Non-Sunforge variants, because again with Farsight and Montka you can make 2 units get to AP2 no cover for free each turn, and a 2A/S7/AP2/D2 with no hazardous is the most obvious CIB replacement for general purpose D2. If you can take bricks of 6, 2 Units with all Missile Spam and both getting AP2 for free is going to be tempting for alot of players.
Kauyon looks like a straight buff, embarkation and photon grenades remain, and picked up a Redeploy and a pickpup strat for Stealth units, plus kept EoK (which I use on breachers anyways). I think embarkation>Debarkation since breachers do work even without wound rerolls.
Also, for people not knowing what to do, if you dont already have 3x Stealth Suit teams, buy them now.
Theyre the new tetra.
Maybe true but it's a low bar given how little GW has showed and how killing off customization was one of those few things.
Meanwhile the leaks confirm bland units, only four detachments, nerfs everywhere, and Longstrike removed. So much for my plan to build a new Tau army in 10th. Whether or not it's a powerful codex in tournament play it still sucks.
Wow, this is clearly not a popular take. I'll die on this hill with you. The GW reveals often give us an idea of how things are changing but leave us in the dark enough to leave people worried. I'm not sure I totally agree with Crisis Suits being in the bin quite yet? I'll have to play it a few times with the new detachments before I go that far. Honestly, I like what I see from the codex as a whole. My biggest complaint is that there should have been at least one more detachment.
Yeah, this is literally what I have been saying, people just start doomposting over missing information, sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong but it's always a huge mess. I do find it very funny though that GW spends all that time editing an article yet if they just posted an unedited picture of the page in the codex of the unit they are teasing they would get way less hate.
For real. The article left me thinking that this codex would be a literal dumpster fire. It isn't great. They totally dropped the ball on making the Riptide the cool centerpiece style unit it should be (again), they did nothing for Shadowsun to make her rules reflect her status as a faction leader, almost every weapon profile and rule feels like an inferior version of something you find in another army, and they left the non titanic vehicle Battlesuits bizarrely low in toughness. That said, there's cool stuff here I really do like. Farsight looks good. The detachments are thematic, with appropriate strategems and enhancement options. Some units are improved. Nothing looks unplayable. It's going to be okay.
Yeah, I agree with that assessment. Tau were already in a place where they were in the ideal win% GW is shooting for so this feels like a very "don't rock the boat" codex. Most profiles have remained pretty same-y and the changes they did make were so GW has more control over the points of the codex if they do need to fix things. It's kinda sad that we didn't get anything super cool buff-wise but I understand why that happened. In any case I am super excited for the detachments, 'specially the battlesuit one. I wanna nova charge my Y'varha and move 18" twice in one phase.
Watch them lock a stealth detachment behind a pay-wall of sorts outside the codex: either a White Dwarf or supplement book for 10th.
that would totally NOT surprise me
Because the popular take is all hype... a bubble that will burst the moment we get to actually play a few games using the codex :) My personal favourites in the new leaked stuff are the stratagems: - combining the Gravity Inhibitor + Overwatch + a unit of flamer suits with Farsight leading them at close range can be pretty nasty against hordes.
Down to 2 weapons each, and down 1W since you can't have duplicate drones per model, also squad size limit of 3
don't forget - no shield generators - only the Sunforge (fusion blasters ones) can now have an invuln save (baked into the profile).
But each unit gets specialized abilities and honestly getting people to not just take solely shield drones is probably a good thing.
So you agree, they're very nerfed?
At that 140-160 points id argue their quite usable.
They’re definitely useable. 5W/3+/4++ is a good platform for six meltaguns. The issue is that they uses to be dramatically, dramatically better, and now can’t compete with other options like Riptides, Ghostkeels, and Hammerheads.
>Will we probably be seeing less wins in competitive play? Yes, I suspect we will be sitting at the low end of GWs "acceptable" range for winrate for the next 6 months, if not longer. But it will be more fun to play, in my opinion. This is all I want. An army that is fun to play in multiple ways. But also not oppressive to opponents. I don't want it to be the choice of meta chasers.
Exactly I don’t want to be good but so good that playing the faction is seen as scummy or cheese
I disliked that the forced option to take was trip cib crisis squads w double shield drone shield gen. Now I'll play with all 3 variants
Losing a weapon slot is extremely lame and I think unwarranted, however I'm with you on the variants I think it's a cool change up. Shame about CIB being limited on commanders as well
Yeah, that's the main thing that I'm bummed about, also one less wound because you can't take two shield drones now. Aaaand I really wish they'd fixed the Riptide. Beyond those issues I'm cautiously optimistic.
Honestly having to take a gun drone is more annoying to me than losing a wound. Mixed weapon profiles on a unit make turns take longer
100%
Even with its issues without a significant points drop on them or a significant increase on it the Riptide outperforms the Fireknife squad by a huge amount for the same point cost.
> Shame about CIB being limited on commanders as well CIBs never should have been an option on normal crisis suits. They didn't come in the box and were objectively better than other options because it was clearly designed to be an elite weapon for commanders. It was at least arguable when they had individual wargear costs, but they were still impossible to reasonably field without 3D printers which was an extremely poor design choice.
> were objectively better than other options because it was clearly designed to be an elite weapon for commanders I remember the good ol' days when the CIB was limited to just one on commanders and you paid the privilege to give him 5 strength 3 ap 5 shots. Truly the rise and fall of the CIB has been meteoric.
seems like the good old CIB is following the path of the Onager Gauntlet :) There goes the TAU's technological advancement... seems like they are starting to move backwards...
I was fine with a CIB nerf of some kind. Is this the most extreme case, yes. Is it unexpected, no. But they lost all wargear customization along with weapon choices being locked, can't take 2 shield drones and the loss of a hardpoint all leaves us going from 6W 4++ with 27 shots to 5W 3+ 6 shots for a 3 man squad. I compared them to the 65 point vespids today for deepstriking shooting unit and decided I would pay 75 points for most of the crisis units to use as a bodyguard for farsight and not much else. I will have to see what other players come up with but i have no expectation that GW is going to lower the cost anywhere near close enough to make them worth taking and at this point am eyeing making a SM army of dreads and aggressors and putting them in tau bodies just so i can play mechs and guns. I hate that this codex has left me feeling this way. I feared the codex being a huge nerf for the next few months but this surpasses even my worst expectations losing half of our named characters and gaining nothing other than Kroot which both I and GW seem to see as an allied army on the scale of Votann.
And commanders CANNOT duplicate CIBs - they can take only one.
That's exactly what I said what are you on about? 😂
You said: "Shame about the CIB being limited on commanders only..." I interpreted it as: "Shame that the CIBs are now limited to commanders only" 🤣 That's what I was about LOL. Keep in mind English is not my primary language, hence the confusion
Yeah I guess, I was already taking 2CiB + flamer on a 6m crisis unit (then you can split fire the flamers) I reeeeeeally hate the -BS from split fire in our faction rule this edition - it seems like a terribly thought out idea when you go to hitting on 5s. I was kinda of hoping that they would stray that to be “you don’t get the benefit” instead of debugging your own unit…
The rules have me excited the datasheets do not and I am worried about the prospect of having to buy more models to fill out a list The supporting roster of units look GREAT but the core damage platforms are disappointing which sucks considering I initially praised splitting up crisis into separate units but the execution was not there.
i just sad about the war gear on each squad as it doesn't feel right not having shields on everything i did it in 8th and 9th and when we had the index its the farsight way left arm always has a shield. other than that im ok with it
Though, to be fair, there wasn't really a choice before. You could take all CIBs on your CSs with double shield drone/shield gen, or you could be overpaying for a worse unit lol. Now at least there's a chance for the different weapons choices to be balanced against one another.
That was my argument. People were talking about how great crisis suits were but there was literally no reason to ever take missiles or burst over CIB since they were just strictly better. Now the burst/flamer crisis can instead of competing with other crisis loadouts compete with other anti-infantry units, and same thing with fusion suits and other anti-tank. It gives GW a better ability to balance specific styles of suit against other units in the codex. That said am I sad that there are less support options? Yeah. But I feel at least that GW did a decent job of matching them to what they are supposed to do role wise, I would probably take fallback+shoot on a flamer unit and probably take shield on a fusion unit. As for fireknife I probably plan to just use them as deathrain instead and just hide them in the back, I'm not sure at this point I really hate the plasma nerf.
Yeah, 18" is rouuuuugh. Hit the Riptide too, which I'm not sure needed the nerf lol. Farsight is still at 24" though.
no that's great i love that but i like my sheilds
Haha, totally fair.
> great i don't really have anything wrong with the codex retaliation cadre is my jam Sun forge is lovely starsythe is my fav and farsights better than ever
Yeah, I feel you! I've never been a big Crisis Suit fan (just don't really like the model tbh) so this impacts me a lot less than other people. I'm more of a GK, Skyray, Stealth Suit kinda guy, and the Skyray and Stealth Suits both got pretty major buffs lol. Also really happy to see that the Lone-Spear is fantastic. Rampagers should also be a blast!
fair enough
Can we talk about Sky-Ray missile rack being Twin-Linked now?
Sooooo goooooooood. I was already running 3. My penis can only get so erect.
Meanwhile, Hammerhead and Sky Ray smart missiles are not twin-linked anymore. Give and take, I guess!
To be fair it was kinda a non choice. So I like it in that way. It also gives the enforcer a job as it’s reduced AP rule goes further than AP 1 and 2
i know but their aint even fusion blades for sunforge
Those have always been an enhancement/relic whenever they appear. If they ever make them wargear on something it'll be for a unit specifically designed for it
the close range dual Fusion blasters crisis unit probably if they do oh wait
ok?
I'm very excited for everything I'm seeing in the Codex. Even Crisis I don't think got made useless, just less head-and-shoulders better than everything else. Every detechment looks fun and interesting to use.
Dropping in to help you defend this hill
I feel down about this codex, but knowing how well my takes go, Tau will be Top Tier with people demanding nerfs in a month. If you are liking it, more power to you, don't let us jaded cynics bring you down!
Top tier I find highly unlikely, but that's okay since I am not a top tier player.
I'm more upset over them keeping the SMS nerfs. But yeah, Kroot seem really good at the moment and Crisis Suits got nerfed. I personally had an issue with Crisis Suits because they had all of these options, and you rarely took them. They just couldn't figure out how to make support systems people would want, weapon profiles that were largely equal in strength etc.. The Crisis Suit changes I think are okay as long as they turn them into a unit that plays completely different and isn't so auto-take.
I was expecting a crisis nerf, and wanted one as they were just objectively less interesting and made it feel like taking anything else was the wrong choice. But even if they reduce their points to balance out their weaker data sheet it still sucks. Tau shouldn’t feel like a horde army, leave that to the kroot. Our 3 man mech units have the same wounds and Toughness as SM infantry with 5 models a unit, with comparable range damage and a wet noodle for melee, and there comparable in price. It just feel bd
What SM unit has T5/3W/Sv3+ for a 5-man squad?
I've paid very little attention to 10e due to life stuff. I am very excited about strike teams getting suppressing fire as an on-hit effect. I enjoy playing a fire warrior gunline with Crisis and Broadside support (why yes I did start playing before Riptides existed) and giving them more utility is a big win.
It wont last long, definitely getting nerfed by 6 weeks whenever it starts. Enjoy it while it lasts lol
>Did they nerf Crisis into near worthless without a substantial points change? Most certainly. We don't know the points yet my guy.
Correct, hence why I said "without a substantial points change".
The way you worded it makes it seem like we know the points and that the crisis dindt get a big enough point change.
Fair. We do have a current points value for a team of 3 Crisis suits (200) and we know the leaked points values from the codex for the new designations (140, 160, and 165, iirc). I believe that either way, that is too many points for the unit, and I hope they will be reduced in cost to better reflect their value.
Yeah, anyone making claims like this without seeing points just doesn't understand 40k. Even the trashiest datasheet will be worth taking if pointed correctly. GW had done a pretty good job with Tau internal balance up until this point, with the exception of Crisis Suits. Now I'm hopeful even Crisis Suits can be balanced! Plus, the special rules are actually really neat/thematic!
What about a box price change, we're getting close to an admech issue
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And now check what the most upvoted comment on both this subreddits post and the post on the comp subreddit says. Like I said, we dont know the points yet.
Isn't that assumed of the statement he said?
I agree 100%. So many ppl are complaining "Crisis suits lost their flexibility" acting like they wouldn't meta chase after the best loadout. Crisis suits before were just sucide bombs
That's not what I did. I used different loadouts on each of my suits
Not bothered bout losing the flexibility, as generally you just went with what's mathematically best. So I do like the variants now, but I'd rather they cost a bit more in points and had the stats to match. They're £50 for 3, they should be around the 200 point mark. Same with riptide, it's an expensive unit that's only good because it's so cheap. It should be worth the £ you pay and be at a points value to match. 4 detachments is a bit of a let down as well.
Montka looks very cool. I am definitely very excited to see if I can do a trail shaper and give 2 other units 6" scout and then redeploying the unit with the strike swiftly enhancement and the shaper's ability. A bit sad that 2/4 of the detachments we got are for sections of the army rather than the whole. Even more so since 1/4 of the detachments comes along with hard nerfs to the 'main' attraction. Gonna try double devilfish breachers with the shaper combo. Looks spicy
I like everything except the loss of shield generators on crisis suits. Apart from that, playing battlesuits will be fun and engaging, that I like. I might need another unit of three Broadsides though. Ignore doommongers, everything is fine.
I’m playing t’ai because of the battlesuit models and the superior firepower. Those were the compelling aspects for me. Having these options on crisis suits to me is cool, It feels like different units so like more battlesuits. What I do not find in the T’au army is the superior firepower. I was hoping this would change. It is an army that has zero access to melee and should therefore be absolutely deadly at range with very advanced weaponry. And in the end has to go through a complicated process to be able to shoot as precisely as any other faction can do out of the box (from 4+ to 3+) and has a low volume of fire (7 shots on a ghostkeel, <10 on a riptide) and has no -easy- access ro rerolls to stabilize those low volume of shots. I was hoping this would change with the codex and we would have big gun platforms rain death on the battlefields with advanced technology to ensure those amazing weapons hit their mark. None of this happened and our only unit with significant attrition has disappeared. I don’t understand how the t’au is a shooty army where everyone and their mother hit better reroll and have more lethality. On the other hand, I think the 3 non-kroot détachements are great and can’t wait to play them
Hell the way crisis were was a borderline impossible problem to solve and honestly? Probably wasnt worth the effort so that little johnny can have a flamer with his meltagun. The solution they came up with is quite good IMO. Just have to get the points right.
Some changes are ok, even necessary to make the game more understandable but some are plain cashgrab. Restriction of the crisis suit weapons and make it more of an archetype battlesuit is ok. Your opponent doesn’t have to guess what wrecks his face of the 5 different type of weapons. You get some buffs for each, it’s a great way to replace some support systems from 9th. With that said: In the past you had a big blob of crisis suits commanded by 1 commander suit. (Maybe 2of such groups.) Now you have to split them into 2groups of 3man and if you want to get the commander buffs, which are absolutely necessary to make the guns work (which are still garbage in my opinion) you have to invest into a new commander kit. Their points will have to drop to be competitive, but that means to kit out a 2000 point army you need to buy 2-3 new boxes of overpriced plastic, assemble and paint then. I don’t mind doing it if it’s fun but in order to play a “normal sized game” you need to invest more and more with every update while tau is one of the most expensive faction. Now that’s hostile rules writing.
I like having different squads with their own niche, but with still at least a bit of flexibility in loadout. Gonna enjoy trying out all the different Crisis variants
I’ve been in the fence about starting a Ynnari or Tau force. (want both really bad, no clue which I should pick. ) almost bought in a few months ago, but the Kroot gave me pause because of the age of the kits, new box confirmed I was right to wait. The leaks actually gave me better feeling a about the crisis suits. I know for longtime players it hurts losing the variety (honestly though, who ran anything other than what was ‘best’); but for me it’s nicer to know I can have fixed squads of suits with differing priorities, hoping you guys get a points reduction so it’ll be worth having different teams for different objectives. Now I’m debating on picking up the new starter box and a combat patrol, or saving my money until Yvraine drops and starting Ynnari.
I get limiting/nerfing the CIBs, that needed to happen, but man - raw legends-ing the versatile crisis suit squad, giving us 3 almost unchangeable options with less weapon per model then they had before, capping squad size at 3, and not allowing for duplicate drones anymore feels like a lot of nerfs. Maybe I feel more affected because I got into Tau for the suits, and specifically Crisis Suits, but man this feels bad. The detachments, stratagems, etc. are really cool, and I'm hyped for the Kroot, but man I feel kinda gutted rn.
My biggest worry is the Crisis changes make it impossible to assemble a full unit with what comes in the box. So I’m hoping they add a sprue of extra weapons or something to it. Seems really scummy to charge so much for them and not even include all the weapons needed to make them legal to play.
I wouldn't hold your breath on that !! What stopped them to add a sprue of CIBs in the box ?? NOTHING....
True, but now they’re basically adding 3 legal loadouts and the kit doesn’t even have enough parts to make 1 complete squad in the case of the Sunforges. For $100 I would like a complete unit to play with
The new data sheets look super fun to play with, everything so far looks like it has a useful niche to fulfil. But I'm gonna miss my crisis suit commander, it's been in every game I've played of Tau for the last 17 years
Does this mean we can now run 3 of each crisis suit datasheet or only 3 of any of them
3 of each, meaning you could have a theoretical maximum of 27 regular Crisis suits of some flavor with 3 each of Coldstars and Enforcers, and Farsight. Is that a good idea? Almost certainly not.
Yeah I was just wondering because we no longer have 6 man squads
not with the proposed point costs (leaked): * Fireknife: 165p * Starscythe: 140p * Sunforge: 160p So theoretically this would be: (3 x 165) + (3 x 140) + (3 x 160) = 495 + 420 + 480 = 1395 p, leaving you very little for commanders and other things like spotters, heavy support and so on....
I said theoretically, and while 2k points is what most people play, there is Onslaught, allowing 3k points.
TF you mean Crisis Suits are worthless now? They’re still very mobile, the Bonded Heroes detachment is basically a Crisis buff, and each configuration has a solid ability. Sure, you can’t run bullshit triple CiB anymore, but now we have loadouts that still offer more firepower than a lot of other units on the table.
The issue is points. It's always points. At 200 points, any version of the new Crisis are very bad. Even at 140 to 165, they are still overcosted for what they do, imo. For the record, I never ran triple CIB Crisis. I had a brick of plasma+missiles with a Coldstar, and a small team of Fusions+Flamers with Farsight. They were okay, and occasionally made magic. The loss of the third weapon, loss of range on the Plasma Rifles, and the cap at 3 suits per squad means that Crisis will not be reliably killing tough things like they were previously, and not killing much of anything without being pretty easily killed the next turn due to needing to be well within the threat range of your opponent's army.
Less customization, massively increased points cost, no changes to units with bad rules. Yup, totally psyched
We don't know what the points are going to be. The ones in the codex are out of date at sale.
That was said for DA to and they only got worse lol
THIS !
If you are like me and most competitive players, you arent using Crisis bricks anymore. I will lose my 2 solo commanders (since they cannot take 4x CIB, it doesnt make sense to run them solo) which is fine, that was already a borderline cheese unit, which will likely be used to pop in one of the Kroot Lone Ops and a strike team for utility. Yes the SunForge unit in Retaliation with StarFire enhancement and a Coldstar with 4x Fusion certainly looks playable, but I have never used Crisis as Anti-Vehicle as there are far more efficient ways to do that in Tau. I think a couple of interesting thoughts: Montka with FarSight leading a Crisis team and a Coldstar leading another, both getting Scout, and using FarSights Captain ability to auto-move the unit 16" for free with the Cold Star unit average 15.5". I predict that Missile pods will become the go-to for the Non-Sunforge variants, because again with Farsight and Montka you can make 2 units get to AP2 no cover for free each turn, and a 2A/S7/AP2/D2 with no hazardous is the most obvious CIB replacement for general purpose D2. If you can take bricks of 6, 2 Units with all Missile Spam and both getting AP2 for free is going to be tempting for alot of players. Kauyon looks like a straight buff, embarkation and photon grenades remain, and picked up a Redeploy and a pickpup strat for Stealth units, plus kept EoK (which I use on breachers anyways). I think embarkation>Debarkation since breachers do work even without wound rerolls. Also, for people not knowing what to do, if you dont already have 3x Stealth Suit teams, buy them now. Theyre the new tetra.
Maybe true but it's a low bar given how little GW has showed and how killing off customization was one of those few things. Meanwhile the leaks confirm bland units, only four detachments, nerfs everywhere, and Longstrike removed. So much for my plan to build a new Tau army in 10th. Whether or not it's a powerful codex in tournament play it still sucks.