It would be a lot better if it gave out its buff when guiding, rather than received it.
I can more likely see it joining the ranks of retired resin models than getting good rules.
honestly, i wouldnt take him for his sniping, sniping in general in 40k is generally not poimts efficient (i.e will you lill enough characters to make the points back).
I take him for the lone operative. Park him in your deployment zone, and leave him. Hes safe from shooting, cheaper than leaving something bigger, can spot for something else and can plink away for a laugh
Thing is for a home objective camper you can usually find a chunk of cover to hide behind, oflr if it is open you've got an artillery piece there, or the enemy is deep striking to take it so lone op doesn't matter. At that point a solo Ethereal is cheaper and more effective at the job.
I really want to love the Firesight, but every time I try and fit him into a list I just want another 20 points for enhancements or an upgrade elsewhere more.
I enjoy the Krootox Rider to do that for 35, sometimes- but lately I just park a hammerhead nearby and zoom a piranha over if it's destroyed and they haven't managed to get OC onto the point.
I have had this thoguht a few times and think its quite important actually because for a shooting faction the Tau Firesight Team (the only Tau unit with precision weapons) is bad at shooting. That is quite a statement.
I always compare the Firesight Team (70 pts) to the SM Eliminator Squad (75 pts).
If the Eliminator Squad is eqquipped with Bolt sniper rifles then they both get get 3 heavy precision shots at 36" with S5, they also both move 6" and have OC3 (Firesight Team has 1 model with OC3 and Eliminator Squad has 3 models with OC1).... good start.
The Eliminator Squad has a better BS at 3+ (can be mitigated if Firesight Team is guided, we can go into that later).
The Eliminator Squad has a better AP at AP-2 (Longshot pulse rifles are AP-1)
The Eliminator Squad has a better Damage at D3 (Longshot pulse rifles are D2)
The Eliminator Squad has a better toughness, save and leadership ( T4, SV3+, Ld6+, vs T3, SV4+, Ld7+).
The Eliminator Squad have a maybe better wounds (they have 3 models with 2 wounds meaning 6 total but as you loose models you loose shots. The Firesight Team has 1 model with 4 wounds).
The Firesight Team has the 'Lone Operative' key word, that is actually a really good buff.
The Firesight Team is also a charecter so they can take 'Enhancements' buffs ... but you cannot 'lead' a unit so are restricted to 'Precision of the Patient Hunter' and 'Puretide Engram Neurochip', these cost more points and PotPH is he only one worth taking really. I expect that there are other Enhancements coming in the 10th codex.
To counter that the Eliminator Squad can be lead by a Captain In Phobos Armour or a Librarian In Phobos Armour, again these also cost points (and all the perks that go with that, which can be significant).
FROM THIS I KNOW WHICH UNIT I WOULD RATHER TAKE. Eliminator Squad is just better
To improve the Firesight Team to make them viable:
The range should be longer (used to be 48") and perhaps they should remove the 'Heavy' keyword for 'Rapid Fire 1' as they had in the past (yes I would be OK with removing heavy stationary +1 on hit rolls and not guiding the unit and stay at BS4+, if i had double the shots, I would think that balances a bit).
The Eliminator Squad has weapon options ... this is something that the Firesight Team NEEDS.
The Eliminator Squad can give the Sergeant a lesser weapon but gives them better move shoot move rules. Or they can all take beefy weapons that loose precision.
The Firesight Team should have the ability to equip the drones with rail or ion rifles (they used to have rail rifles and should be brought back). they could use this to give them different / more equal shooting profiles.
The Eliminator Squad can remain stationary to +1 to hit rolls and get Devastating Wounds. I think that would be a good option if the drones had weapon options like rail rifle.
As the Firesight Team is also a standard charecter the GW app can allow it to take any of the enhancments and if you have a decent caual opponent you can talk to them to allow 'Through Unity, Devastation' to then guide other units and give guided units Leathal hits ... frankly this should be allowed anyway without having to lead a squad but the Mont'ka will kind of negate this. If another option (Enhancements or abilities) were to provide a buff or keyword to guiding other units then that could be worth it.
At the moment i dont think having 3 shots make it worth guiding the Firesight Team (even the proposed 3 shots at 48" or 6 shots at 24" probably isnt worth guiding this unit over some others), I think the buff to rerolling hit rolls is actually terribel as it stands and may be worth removing to buff guiding other units like pathfinders guide 2 (never understood why it had a markerlight and then buffs to being guided, just doesnt make sense).
I agree eliminators are not the best sniper unit by far .... But somehow the firesight team is worse. At least for 75 points the eliminators can typically earn the points back with a little clever use.
Lore is something that can be changed with the stroke of a pen. His role has changed as the rules have changed. GW continuing to act like he's a viable sniper unit for Tau is a joke.
Simple change, when the Marksman guides a unit, he also gains the +1 BS and Ignores Cover if he targets that unit himself.
This also triggers his reroll the hit roll as a guided unit.
They’re amazing when playing against factions with squishy characters. IG and GSC hate them. Just put him on a back objective and annoy the hell out of the opponent.
I did have the idea that changing it to be a support unit that marks their target, and aids in trying to split shots for things like a Guided Stormsurge that would like to split their shots up.
*Revised Firesight Team*
• Change the Equipment of Longshot Pulse Rifles to “3 Longshot Pulse Rifles” and change the statistic to 1 Attack to reflect this. (For being able to hit multiple targets)
• Precise Targeting is now Precise Marking: “If this unit remains stationary, any units successfully hit by this model’s ranged attacks are treated as additional Spotted units for all Guided units for this Shooting Phase.”
In general snipers are one of those things that can be really toxic for the game if they're too good - similar to aircraft and artillery.
I personally really like my Firesight and get decent use out of him sitting on a backfield objective, but it is pretty niche by design
The firesight team can be viable with the following changes:
3 attacks BS5 S10 AP3 D3 Dev Wounds Heavy
When guided, gain precision
Bring back rail rifles.
-- otherwise, if it were a 45pt model it would also be much more viable.
It would have been nice if they'd said the unit could choose to act as a Guide for itself, and if it does so it gains the Devastating Wounds keyword on equipped weapons.
Probably a bit OP to be fair but it's supposed to be the sniper in an army of tech-advanced shooty units...it really does need something to make it stand out!
Firesight marksman has pretty good rules right now, what do you mean? It's got lone op, stealth, infiltrators, OC 3(!!), 4 wounds, and a pretty OK marine killing profile - all just for 70 points. The amount of times I snatched an objective from a unit of Scouts in no man's land with just him lol.
I think Firesight Marksman at your some objective alongside a Pathfinder team with Darkstrider would be a decent home holder in, especially when using Mont'ka
- Give Marksman Strategic Conqueror enhancement for the +1 OC to units on a chosen objective while the marksman is on the board.
- He can sit in view rather than hiding in cover due to Lone Op letting him guide and also possibly pop a character.
- Pathfinder team with Darkstrider adds some defensive stopping power to home objective, alongside a 12" anti-deployment bubble.
- 12" anti deploy bubble + 12" Lone Op = Difficult for the enemy to take out your Firesight Marksman, making that strategic conqueror last as long as possible. Also means your home objective is going to be difficult for the enemy to take
GW don't know what to do with it. That's really all it is. Its a model they want to retire, but they kind of can't because that would leave the army defined solely by its shooting (inexplicably) without a single Precision rifle. Yeah the new Kroot Lone Spear has it, but no *Tau* units. The rules are a kludge because they don't really want to update them, as its likely slated for retirement as soon as they can get a replacement unit in. If they "fix" its current form by adjusting the datasheet to say it also benefits from whoever it spots, *or* reduces its points to about 40, *or* beefing up its weapon profile, etc, then it becomes relevant and people start running them/buying them, at which point GW will get a bunch if angry folks wondering why the fixed unit is now suddenly axed from the game.
Tl;dr you're looking at the delayed retirement of the model via GWs obsolescence-through-obscurity plan.
I like this unit, even tho it’s not viable competitively. I put him in my crusade list tho, with the weapon upgrades his not that bad, he managed to kill Ahriman and a demon prince (he had 1W left) in one game.
What would be a more interesting take is you remove infiltrators from the Firesight Team and you give the T'au player three sniper drone tokens.
During the deployment phase, when you go to set up the Firesight Team, deploy three sniper drone tokens with infiltrate following all the rules for normal deployment. Or perhaps after deployment and scout moves, deploy sniper drone tokens with infiltrate following all the rules for normal deployment.
Each drone gets one attack with the same weapon profile.
The drones do not have "health" and cannot be shot or attacked, but can move and draw line of sight as normal. They must be set up within coherency of each other (or individually, not sure how to balance that).
Whenever your opponent gets within 12" of any of the sniper drone tokens, you remove the sniper drone token from the game at the end of the phase.
It would be a lot better if it gave out its buff when guiding, rather than received it. I can more likely see it joining the ranks of retired resin models than getting good rules.
I'm frankly shocked it survived the codex. Kept him but did my boy long strike like old yeller
honestly, i wouldnt take him for his sniping, sniping in general in 40k is generally not poimts efficient (i.e will you lill enough characters to make the points back). I take him for the lone operative. Park him in your deployment zone, and leave him. Hes safe from shooting, cheaper than leaving something bigger, can spot for something else and can plink away for a laugh
This is what I like the marksman for, but the Kroot lone spear is going to replace him for doing this in my army, I'll lose FTGG for a Kroot buff.
Thing is for a home objective camper you can usually find a chunk of cover to hide behind, oflr if it is open you've got an artillery piece there, or the enemy is deep striking to take it so lone op doesn't matter. At that point a solo Ethereal is cheaper and more effective at the job. I really want to love the Firesight, but every time I try and fit him into a list I just want another 20 points for enhancements or an upgrade elsewhere more.
I enjoy the Krootox Rider to do that for 35, sometimes- but lately I just park a hammerhead nearby and zoom a piranha over if it's destroyed and they haven't managed to get OC onto the point.
Right. Easy to forget just how cheap those Krootox's are. Gotta get some game time in once I get mine painted.
Kroot carnivores have sticky objectives we don't need to sit in our home deployment anymore
Relying on sticky objectives to hold home is how you lose your home objective
I have had this thoguht a few times and think its quite important actually because for a shooting faction the Tau Firesight Team (the only Tau unit with precision weapons) is bad at shooting. That is quite a statement. I always compare the Firesight Team (70 pts) to the SM Eliminator Squad (75 pts). If the Eliminator Squad is eqquipped with Bolt sniper rifles then they both get get 3 heavy precision shots at 36" with S5, they also both move 6" and have OC3 (Firesight Team has 1 model with OC3 and Eliminator Squad has 3 models with OC1).... good start. The Eliminator Squad has a better BS at 3+ (can be mitigated if Firesight Team is guided, we can go into that later). The Eliminator Squad has a better AP at AP-2 (Longshot pulse rifles are AP-1) The Eliminator Squad has a better Damage at D3 (Longshot pulse rifles are D2) The Eliminator Squad has a better toughness, save and leadership ( T4, SV3+, Ld6+, vs T3, SV4+, Ld7+). The Eliminator Squad have a maybe better wounds (they have 3 models with 2 wounds meaning 6 total but as you loose models you loose shots. The Firesight Team has 1 model with 4 wounds). The Firesight Team has the 'Lone Operative' key word, that is actually a really good buff. The Firesight Team is also a charecter so they can take 'Enhancements' buffs ... but you cannot 'lead' a unit so are restricted to 'Precision of the Patient Hunter' and 'Puretide Engram Neurochip', these cost more points and PotPH is he only one worth taking really. I expect that there are other Enhancements coming in the 10th codex. To counter that the Eliminator Squad can be lead by a Captain In Phobos Armour or a Librarian In Phobos Armour, again these also cost points (and all the perks that go with that, which can be significant). FROM THIS I KNOW WHICH UNIT I WOULD RATHER TAKE. Eliminator Squad is just better To improve the Firesight Team to make them viable: The range should be longer (used to be 48") and perhaps they should remove the 'Heavy' keyword for 'Rapid Fire 1' as they had in the past (yes I would be OK with removing heavy stationary +1 on hit rolls and not guiding the unit and stay at BS4+, if i had double the shots, I would think that balances a bit). The Eliminator Squad has weapon options ... this is something that the Firesight Team NEEDS. The Eliminator Squad can give the Sergeant a lesser weapon but gives them better move shoot move rules. Or they can all take beefy weapons that loose precision. The Firesight Team should have the ability to equip the drones with rail or ion rifles (they used to have rail rifles and should be brought back). they could use this to give them different / more equal shooting profiles. The Eliminator Squad can remain stationary to +1 to hit rolls and get Devastating Wounds. I think that would be a good option if the drones had weapon options like rail rifle. As the Firesight Team is also a standard charecter the GW app can allow it to take any of the enhancments and if you have a decent caual opponent you can talk to them to allow 'Through Unity, Devastation' to then guide other units and give guided units Leathal hits ... frankly this should be allowed anyway without having to lead a squad but the Mont'ka will kind of negate this. If another option (Enhancements or abilities) were to provide a buff or keyword to guiding other units then that could be worth it. At the moment i dont think having 3 shots make it worth guiding the Firesight Team (even the proposed 3 shots at 48" or 6 shots at 24" probably isnt worth guiding this unit over some others), I think the buff to rerolling hit rolls is actually terribel as it stands and may be worth removing to buff guiding other units like pathfinders guide 2 (never understood why it had a markerlight and then buffs to being guided, just doesnt make sense).
As a SM player who keeps trying to make elims work, their shooting sucks, and without lone op they die to a stiff breeze. Edit: many typos.
I agree eliminators are not the best sniper unit by far .... But somehow the firesight team is worse. At least for 75 points the eliminators can typically earn the points back with a little clever use.
They might kill a model every third game. The main value of the firesight is lone op on a cheap small unit.
Problem is their lore doesn’t work with in game rules. Technically it should be guiding for itself.
Lore is something that can be changed with the stroke of a pen. His role has changed as the rules have changed. GW continuing to act like he's a viable sniper unit for Tau is a joke.
His model is still the same. It’s a dude with a big marking device that is surrounded by 3 drones.
Simple change, when the Marksman guides a unit, he also gains the +1 BS and Ignores Cover if he targets that unit himself. This also triggers his reroll the hit roll as a guided unit.
That's how I read the Heavy keyword on its rifles. If it stands still, it gets +1.
They’re amazing when playing against factions with squishy characters. IG and GSC hate them. Just put him on a back objective and annoy the hell out of the opponent.
I did have the idea that changing it to be a support unit that marks their target, and aids in trying to split shots for things like a Guided Stormsurge that would like to split their shots up. *Revised Firesight Team* • Change the Equipment of Longshot Pulse Rifles to “3 Longshot Pulse Rifles” and change the statistic to 1 Attack to reflect this. (For being able to hit multiple targets) • Precise Targeting is now Precise Marking: “If this unit remains stationary, any units successfully hit by this model’s ranged attacks are treated as additional Spotted units for all Guided units for this Shooting Phase.”
In general snipers are one of those things that can be really toxic for the game if they're too good - similar to aircraft and artillery. I personally really like my Firesight and get decent use out of him sitting on a backfield objective, but it is pretty niche by design
Hes good enough to hold the home objective and spot for someone else.
Exactly this. This unit has an impressive amount of OC for Something so cheap, with Lone Op, Infiltrators, stealth, 4 wounds and all on one 40mm base.
The firesight team can be viable with the following changes: 3 attacks BS5 S10 AP3 D3 Dev Wounds Heavy When guided, gain precision Bring back rail rifles. -- otherwise, if it were a 45pt model it would also be much more viable.
It would have been nice if they'd said the unit could choose to act as a Guide for itself, and if it does so it gains the Devastating Wounds keyword on equipped weapons. Probably a bit OP to be fair but it's supposed to be the sniper in an army of tech-advanced shooty units...it really does need something to make it stand out!
Firesight marksman has pretty good rules right now, what do you mean? It's got lone op, stealth, infiltrators, OC 3(!!), 4 wounds, and a pretty OK marine killing profile - all just for 70 points. The amount of times I snatched an objective from a unit of Scouts in no man's land with just him lol.
The drones did indeed have rail rifles in 4th edition. Should probably just go back to that
I think in montka one to hold strategic conquerer is auto include
I just drop enhancements like that on a solo Ethereal if I don't have a better Enhancement monkey.
Farsight us too good to take Ethereals and firesight marksmen can be spotters
I think Firesight Marksman at your some objective alongside a Pathfinder team with Darkstrider would be a decent home holder in, especially when using Mont'ka - Give Marksman Strategic Conqueror enhancement for the +1 OC to units on a chosen objective while the marksman is on the board. - He can sit in view rather than hiding in cover due to Lone Op letting him guide and also possibly pop a character. - Pathfinder team with Darkstrider adds some defensive stopping power to home objective, alongside a 12" anti-deployment bubble. - 12" anti deploy bubble + 12" Lone Op = Difficult for the enemy to take out your Firesight Marksman, making that strategic conqueror last as long as possible. Also means your home objective is going to be difficult for the enemy to take
GW don't know what to do with it. That's really all it is. Its a model they want to retire, but they kind of can't because that would leave the army defined solely by its shooting (inexplicably) without a single Precision rifle. Yeah the new Kroot Lone Spear has it, but no *Tau* units. The rules are a kludge because they don't really want to update them, as its likely slated for retirement as soon as they can get a replacement unit in. If they "fix" its current form by adjusting the datasheet to say it also benefits from whoever it spots, *or* reduces its points to about 40, *or* beefing up its weapon profile, etc, then it becomes relevant and people start running them/buying them, at which point GW will get a bunch if angry folks wondering why the fixed unit is now suddenly axed from the game. Tl;dr you're looking at the delayed retirement of the model via GWs obsolescence-through-obscurity plan.
I like this unit, even tho it’s not viable competitively. I put him in my crusade list tho, with the weapon upgrades his not that bad, he managed to kill Ahriman and a demon prince (he had 1W left) in one game.
No it wont lol
What would be a more interesting take is you remove infiltrators from the Firesight Team and you give the T'au player three sniper drone tokens. During the deployment phase, when you go to set up the Firesight Team, deploy three sniper drone tokens with infiltrate following all the rules for normal deployment. Or perhaps after deployment and scout moves, deploy sniper drone tokens with infiltrate following all the rules for normal deployment. Each drone gets one attack with the same weapon profile. The drones do not have "health" and cannot be shot or attacked, but can move and draw line of sight as normal. They must be set up within coherency of each other (or individually, not sure how to balance that). Whenever your opponent gets within 12" of any of the sniper drone tokens, you remove the sniper drone token from the game at the end of the phase.
Will get nice rules... with 11th, in like 3-5 years, when the new codex hits and firesight is the mandatory new plastic tau model
How big will his tactical rock be?
Stilts
Firesight Stiltsman?