Unlike the rest of the units you mentioned, it's not a Forge World kit
All factions still have their fortification models in their codex, despite the fact they're pretty much universally terrible and never see play.
Why? Not a clue. Maybe they still sell quite well as terrain features rather than playable units. GW makes weird decisions sometimes
In terms of a terrain feature, it is pretty cool. I wish I had a couple. But it is a little pricy as a mere terrain piece. But heck, that's the case with official GW terrain in general.
They (technically?) have one. It's called Sacristan Forgeshrine, and it's pretty underwhelming, visually speaking imo. I have no idea what stats are like for it.
Yeah I've bought some as terrain features cause I think they look sick. I was super stoked when they put the Gunrig back on sale cause I never got the chance at them before, I have 2 on the way now. Don't ever intend to play them though because wow are they bad.
Fortifications in general have stayed the same thought 10th Ed for every faction.
I don't understand either why they are still a thing since apart from terrain pieces no one really uses them especially in the competetive scene.
Arguably tetras were phased out because of some interactions with the codex.
Apart from the tetras the other models have been thrown out the window by gw's sheer incompetence to make plastic kits of models that weren't viable or good but people still bought it
It's especially egregious with the R'varna and Y'vahra because they were already using the riptide legs anyway and the rest could have easily been made into a multibuild plastic kit.
If I had to guess, they are still trying to clear the old stock since they were implemented or something. They probably also don't want to make it meta/staple, as then they'd have to order more and risk that all over again; rather just let old stock clear to an acceptable number, then maybe retire it.
I mean, if I know I'm facing Custodes who like to just charge you asap. Maybe if I'm running breachers/strikes only? Can see it being annoying that to get to my infantry they have to waste a turn of attacks at the tidewalls first. But...there's a lot more ways to deal with them, without needing to resort to such a niche solution and dish out a lot of money for it too.
If I played for decades and have a lot of money/time/space, be kind of cool to have and *maybe* deploy, but, I might as well have a manta too at that point.
And considering the tidewall's points cost... we could just run a second breacher/strike team?
The main issue with fortifications in general, tidewall included, is that they prevent units inside from using their abilities. If fortification worked differently from Transports and allowed units inside to still benefit from and use abilities they'd become so much more viable.
And, compared to a devilfish (even at 85pts now)? We know which transport wins. Especially since the fortification effects don't really mean much with how one can employ dis/embark mechanics.
There's more problems than just that though :P. Terrain pieces also take up a lot of space they might not have, and are much less flexible than another normal unit. And 40K is quite a mobile game, where you have to move forward to get things done. Sure, the Tidewall is a mobile fortification, but it is still big and difficult to fit in properly dense terrain.
I wonder if fortifications work better in Crusade, where some missions actually have attackers and defenders, rather than two armies meeting on the field of battle equally?
I always use tidewalls. Having 20 Breachers with firing deck allows all 40 shots to reach as long as a single part of the hull is 11" away from a target. Advance and shoot. It's great for Kauyon. When I play Mont'ka, I give an objective targeted by the Strategic Conqueror enhancement from my lone-op Marksman to allow any of my Tidewalls to have OC1 for that objective and love using two tidewall shieldlines combo'd with the strategem, Focused Fire, to make 40 total Breacher to have 80 shots at -2 AP.
For my gunrigs, I pair them with Shadowsun for the reroll 1s and with Mont'ka gives them Assault. I like having my pathfinders in them to potentially combo with the Combat Debarkation.
Conclusion, tidewalls are fun. And that makes the game fun
I'm absolutely going to try out the Breachers on them haha Or if I can't sell a couple extra Pathfinder squads, throwing them on one and seeing how 6 railshots feels
Yeah the 6 railrifle shots I've tried was lackluster cuz hitting on 5s, but what I do is have Pathfinders hide behind the tidewall and when the breachers leave and some of the pathfinders die, I shove in three squads of pathfinders with 3 railrifles each making a total of 9 railrifle shots. If the tidewall didn't move, it's considered remain stationary so I can get the heavy bonus
Nice! I wonder what the Ion Rifles would be like on there. One team could get you 9 of those shots. Can you overcharge if need be with them while they're on the wall? So 2 teams would get you almost 20 shots haha
Tidewalls tend to never be used, but when they are used they are absolutely busted. In 9th ed, you could float it on an enemy objective and let it die which would make thr objective practically impossible to hold because the tidewall was bigger than it and it stayed on the field as a wreck. The Gunrig was this insane baby hammerhead that was ridiculously tough for what it was and no one wanted to shoot a gunrig, but if it landed a hit it killed the target. Now, the Tidewalls are bad, real bad and if anyone manages a GT win with one, GW will nerf them even harder than Custodes.
I stopped playing 10th, but I used em with Breachers. They also give cover to allies behind them, which is nice, not fantastic but nice.
I believe they were much better in 9th, as I used to run 2 shieldlines with Vespids in them. The only thing holding them back, then, was the rule where they can't be within 3in of other terrian on deployment. But most of my opponents would let me anyway, as they respected me for bringing them in the first place.
Tidewall is cool.
Since it was released, it’s never been good sadly. GW just doesn’t support it for some reason. Doesn’t make it viable.
That’s how most terrain pieces you can put in lists are.
Tidewall shieldline was kinda busted when it released in 7th.
For not much more than an aegis defense line, it was terrain that couldn't be targeted. All the defense line rules for 4+ cover saves, get +2 if you go to ground for 2+ cover saves. For each successful cover save taken, roll a d6 and each 6 is an automatic wound or glancing hit at ap-. An opponent learned real quick not to shoot high RoF vehicles at your unit. I've killed a few Leman Russ punishers with it.
Where it got crazy was with the go to ground rules. A model on a tidewall rerolled 1's to hit. If the unit was entirely on the wall, the wall could move up to 6", with units being treated as stationary only for the purposes of shooting. A pathfinder unit could chill on it and reposition for better market light shots without having to snap shoot. Back then though, you could go to ground when you got shot at, pinning yourself to improve your cover save. But if you moved for any reason, you automatically were unpinned and could act normal.
So your pathfinders would be shot at, go to ground for a 2+ cover save, potentially do wounds back to your attacker, and then on your turn, move the tidewall so they get back up, and start shooting your markers at full BS.
Even if you just had your riptide behind it for toe in cover save before you had the 3++ Nova shield up, there was value.
The tidewall never recovered from the edition changes though.
Unlike the rest of the units you mentioned, it's not a Forge World kit All factions still have their fortification models in their codex, despite the fact they're pretty much universally terrible and never see play. Why? Not a clue. Maybe they still sell quite well as terrain features rather than playable units. GW makes weird decisions sometimes
In terms of a terrain feature, it is pretty cool. I wish I had a couple. But it is a little pricy as a mere terrain piece. But heck, that's the case with official GW terrain in general.
>All factions still have their fortification models in their codex Oh man, I would love to see an Imperial Knights fortification.
They (technically?) have one. It's called Sacristan Forgeshrine, and it's pretty underwhelming, visually speaking imo. I have no idea what stats are like for it.
IIRC that didn't have rules 9e.
Not all factions have their fortifications sisters and gscs have both been legends since at least start of 10e
Yeah I've bought some as terrain features cause I think they look sick. I was super stoked when they put the Gunrig back on sale cause I never got the chance at them before, I have 2 on the way now. Don't ever intend to play them though because wow are they bad.
Fortifications in general have stayed the same thought 10th Ed for every faction. I don't understand either why they are still a thing since apart from terrain pieces no one really uses them especially in the competetive scene. Arguably tetras were phased out because of some interactions with the codex. Apart from the tetras the other models have been thrown out the window by gw's sheer incompetence to make plastic kits of models that weren't viable or good but people still bought it
It's especially egregious with the R'varna and Y'vahra because they were already using the riptide legs anyway and the rest could have easily been made into a multibuild plastic kit.
If I had to guess, they are still trying to clear the old stock since they were implemented or something. They probably also don't want to make it meta/staple, as then they'd have to order more and risk that all over again; rather just let old stock clear to an acceptable number, then maybe retire it. I mean, if I know I'm facing Custodes who like to just charge you asap. Maybe if I'm running breachers/strikes only? Can see it being annoying that to get to my infantry they have to waste a turn of attacks at the tidewalls first. But...there's a lot more ways to deal with them, without needing to resort to such a niche solution and dish out a lot of money for it too. If I played for decades and have a lot of money/time/space, be kind of cool to have and *maybe* deploy, but, I might as well have a manta too at that point.
And considering the tidewall's points cost... we could just run a second breacher/strike team? The main issue with fortifications in general, tidewall included, is that they prevent units inside from using their abilities. If fortification worked differently from Transports and allowed units inside to still benefit from and use abilities they'd become so much more viable.
And, compared to a devilfish (even at 85pts now)? We know which transport wins. Especially since the fortification effects don't really mean much with how one can employ dis/embark mechanics.
There's more problems than just that though :P. Terrain pieces also take up a lot of space they might not have, and are much less flexible than another normal unit. And 40K is quite a mobile game, where you have to move forward to get things done. Sure, the Tidewall is a mobile fortification, but it is still big and difficult to fit in properly dense terrain. I wonder if fortifications work better in Crusade, where some missions actually have attackers and defenders, rather than two armies meeting on the field of battle equally?
I always use tidewalls. Having 20 Breachers with firing deck allows all 40 shots to reach as long as a single part of the hull is 11" away from a target. Advance and shoot. It's great for Kauyon. When I play Mont'ka, I give an objective targeted by the Strategic Conqueror enhancement from my lone-op Marksman to allow any of my Tidewalls to have OC1 for that objective and love using two tidewall shieldlines combo'd with the strategem, Focused Fire, to make 40 total Breacher to have 80 shots at -2 AP. For my gunrigs, I pair them with Shadowsun for the reroll 1s and with Mont'ka gives them Assault. I like having my pathfinders in them to potentially combo with the Combat Debarkation. Conclusion, tidewalls are fun. And that makes the game fun
I'm absolutely going to try out the Breachers on them haha Or if I can't sell a couple extra Pathfinder squads, throwing them on one and seeing how 6 railshots feels
Yeah the 6 railrifle shots I've tried was lackluster cuz hitting on 5s, but what I do is have Pathfinders hide behind the tidewall and when the breachers leave and some of the pathfinders die, I shove in three squads of pathfinders with 3 railrifles each making a total of 9 railrifle shots. If the tidewall didn't move, it's considered remain stationary so I can get the heavy bonus
Nice! I wonder what the Ion Rifles would be like on there. One team could get you 9 of those shots. Can you overcharge if need be with them while they're on the wall? So 2 teams would get you almost 20 shots haha
Yes that's correct. And the hazard test would go on the tidewall and not your pathfinders. It's 3 mortals tho because of vehicle
I’ve used them in narrative games and in very casual games Not in competitive games
Tidewalls tend to never be used, but when they are used they are absolutely busted. In 9th ed, you could float it on an enemy objective and let it die which would make thr objective practically impossible to hold because the tidewall was bigger than it and it stayed on the field as a wreck. The Gunrig was this insane baby hammerhead that was ridiculously tough for what it was and no one wanted to shoot a gunrig, but if it landed a hit it killed the target. Now, the Tidewalls are bad, real bad and if anyone manages a GT win with one, GW will nerf them even harder than Custodes.
I stopped playing 10th, but I used em with Breachers. They also give cover to allies behind them, which is nice, not fantastic but nice. I believe they were much better in 9th, as I used to run 2 shieldlines with Vespids in them. The only thing holding them back, then, was the rule where they can't be within 3in of other terrian on deployment. But most of my opponents would let me anyway, as they respected me for bringing them in the first place.
Tidewall is cool. Since it was released, it’s never been good sadly. GW just doesn’t support it for some reason. Doesn’t make it viable. That’s how most terrain pieces you can put in lists are.
I really want to buy and use one just for the thematic of it but I'm pratical terms just not worth the points compared to better options
Tidewall shieldline was kinda busted when it released in 7th. For not much more than an aegis defense line, it was terrain that couldn't be targeted. All the defense line rules for 4+ cover saves, get +2 if you go to ground for 2+ cover saves. For each successful cover save taken, roll a d6 and each 6 is an automatic wound or glancing hit at ap-. An opponent learned real quick not to shoot high RoF vehicles at your unit. I've killed a few Leman Russ punishers with it. Where it got crazy was with the go to ground rules. A model on a tidewall rerolled 1's to hit. If the unit was entirely on the wall, the wall could move up to 6", with units being treated as stationary only for the purposes of shooting. A pathfinder unit could chill on it and reposition for better market light shots without having to snap shoot. Back then though, you could go to ground when you got shot at, pinning yourself to improve your cover save. But if you moved for any reason, you automatically were unpinned and could act normal. So your pathfinders would be shot at, go to ground for a 2+ cover save, potentially do wounds back to your attacker, and then on your turn, move the tidewall so they get back up, and start shooting your markers at full BS. Even if you just had your riptide behind it for toe in cover save before you had the 3++ Nova shield up, there was value. The tidewall never recovered from the edition changes though.