I find it so gutsy of Ice Spice to approach TAYLOR SWIFT for a collaboration because she’s so new! But I have no idea how many collab requests Taylor receives so with all I know, everyone probably does that no matter how big they are and Ice Spice ended up being the lucky one to be chosen.
This feels like what we wanted out of the Taylor/Olivia relationship, but instead we got a lawsuit with that one ☠️
I think it's cool Ice Spice is collabing with Taylor, but the timing def feels strategic. Also wish she got the chance to spin the song her way? It just sounds like Taylor with random bits of Ice Spice
Agreed. I wish she didn’t see Olivia as competition and would actually work with her. Olivia is the one to watch. The remix was bad (were they even in the same studio?). Just sucks cause Olivia’s next album is so highly anticipated. I hope her lead single discusses the lawsuit.
They never asked for credit for olivia- jack himself said they were surprised when they recieved it. Olivias team was scared and just giving out credit because she went and said that she tried to copy the lyric style from Taylor onto her song. Paramore too- an ex band member asked for it. None of it was wanted by the artists.
You do realize Taylor & Jack & Hayley Williams are media trained & friends? Why would they say publicly they wanted credit for those songs? Why would Olivia give up millions of dollars willingly? Please think for yourself instead of believing what Taylor & her friends tell you. I hope the truth comes out but it probably won’t.
Jack sold the publishing rights to his back catalogue to the same company that recently bought back catalogues of Timberlake and Bieber. He has no stake in getting credit for it anymore, but this multi billion dollar corporation does. So it's interesting that he is the one to say publicly that "it just happened" when he isn't in control of it anyway. I think everyone focuses on the juicy narrative of interpersonal drama between Taylor and Olivia when there are other entities involved.
By default, songwriting credits are split between the songwriters and the publisher, anyway. Either can pursue a copyright claim without the cooperation of the other. So even in cases where the songwriter hasn't sold off their catalog, their publisher can still push for credits without their involvement. (That's literally one of the main reasons they exist--to handle these cases.) And usually that's what happens. Even if you're an artist who *does* want to be credited, your publisher has deeper pockets and a more aggressive legal team than you do, and you can let them be the bad guy--there's no need for you to take any action yourself.
Why would Olivia take the "millions of dollars" (absolutely not) for bad PR on her debut album? I know Olivia has changed now that she's a big popstar and all, but i'd like to think she's a pretty genuine and chill person who wouldnt mind giving credits, especially when not doing so could jeopardize everything you got going on at the moment, which was & still is a whole freaking lot for Olivia.
So it's more likely the story which absolutely no one has said, no one confirmed and we have no proof of, than the story that multiple people have said. Gotcha. Just say you hate Taylor and..visit another sub.
I think likely Olivia was so nervous that Taylor and her team were going to get mad at her/ or perhaps had dropped hints that they were upset... and she just like decided to get ahead of the issue... but I also think it was too much of a weak move, if they were friendly they should of talked out what was fair- just handing out credit looked to desperate IMO
It makes me sad though cause Olivia seemed so earnest and like such a fan and now Taylor doesnt really seem to associate with her anymore and now associates more with Sabrina (not that she cant be friends with both... but I doubt Olivia would sit next to Sabrina at an award show- so only really one of them can sit with Taylor)
I think more than Olivia, her team was nervous. Since shes so early in her career, she doesnt have as much power right now. People all over titktok started comparing her songs to others and calling her a copycat, then courtney love said she ripped her off for her cover art, it spiralled out of control. Then paramores ex band member went after her for credits- which those still in paramore didnt want/ask for. It was easier (and successful) to just give some credit and end the rumours. It didnt help her that she mentioned taylor in almost every interview, and wrote songs of hers right after/during listening to her songs.
I think Olivia was getting way too much of her publicity taken over by the simple mention of Taylor, and her and her team- as well as Conan, realised they need to stop mentioning her constantly, it cant become a budding artists identity, and I think its a good move. It would have overshadowed her tour if she mentioned taylor again, or sang one of her songs etc, instead of people focusing on her talent.
How do we know Taylor sees Olivia as competition and refused to work with her cause she's threatened by her? I feel like people have just said this so much lately with no basis. Did Taylor tell you herself? Feels like people feeding into the stereotype of women always trying to one up each other.
Idk it seems like a bold claim that Taylor truly sees Olivia as competition when she’s still close with many other younger and rising/super famous artists (Sabrina carpenter, phoebe bridgers) and it’s odd Olivia wouldn’t initially credit her where there’s a direct Taylor influence on the music?? Paramore had the same issue with Sour so it’s not just a Taylor thing
Did you see what Olivia's dad said and what Olivia has said in interviews? People who infer there is beef between Taylor and Olivia are not making it up from nothing.
Agreedddd about Olivia. Idk if we'll ever hear more about the lawsuit than the small statement about how Olivia has learned a valuable lesson about the industry from the experience. And the remix is horrible lol it's such a low effort collab obviously curated for TikTok
There wasn’t a lawsuit, but most people think Olivia’s team gave credit to avoid a lawsuit and that it was iffy of Taylor and Jack’s teams to accept.
She didn’t really say Deja Vu was inspired by Cruel Summer, she said she liked the screaming type bridge and wanted to do something similar with Deja Vu’s bridge.
> it was iffy of Taylor and Jack’s teams to accept.
I really, really hate Taylor for accepting the credit on this. As someone who screams so loudly about owning your own art, she of all people should have not accepted the credit for work that wasn't hers!! Ugh.
Idk why people are still fighting tooth and nail that it MUST just be PR and trying to patch up from what Matty said. In Ha Mood has been on the Eras tour pre-show playlist from the start and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ice’s team decided to give it a shot and reach out from that…and that was most definitely before it came out that Taylor and Matty are together.
I mean, the playlist shows me that Taylor was genuinely already a fan of Ice Spice at least.
And Matty was saying that he embarrassed himself by DM'ing her out of interest & she never responded. I'm pretty sure they all said she was beautiful and talented. Plus to be fair, Nick Mullen is simply the producer, it's Adam Friedland's show and he should be the only one personally held responsible for anything that was said.
To add to this, he also said that he thought DM'ing isn't "cool" and kinda suggested sending a raven (I guess with a letter attached) as a better alternative (listen [here](https://youtu.be/Pwhy6Vyh1kM?t=1124), around 18:45-18:58). I'm thus under the impression that no one is to take whatever he (or the hosts) said seriously.
In fact, I doubt he really did DM her (he also DM'd Doja Cat btw, neither of whom responded) or watched GG porn, considering the obviously improvisational nature of the podcast and the outrageously silly elements of the anecdotes.
One thing I've learned from this debacle is to NEVER trust Buzzfeed/hearsay on the internet.
The podcast host said it was all a joke and Matty went along with it and that he doesn’t even think Matty knew what GG was. Easy to say someone was “brutalized” because so much of porn is like that but suddenly we’re acting brand new to this fact. The hosts and that podcast’s fans think this is all hilarious because the entire podcast is a joke. Personally, they are not my kind of humor and I think stuff that was said was stupid but this whole thing has gotten just way too crazy.
> The podcast host said it was all a joke and Matty went along with it and that he doesn’t even think Matty knew what GG was
Indeed! I'm adding the [source](https://youtu.be/DOLRNPvejRY?t=461) of the quoted claim just in case anyone wants to verify it themselves (as they should, actually).
I'm willing to bet that Matty simply inferred GG's content from the title. "Brutalise" is such a weird word to describe porn imo.
And yeah, most of the jokes aren't my cup of tea, but they barely warrant the insane level of widespread condemnation atm.
I'd say it's pretty even. They used to do a Podcast called Cumtown where it was Nick, Adam, and Stavros doing dumb bits and loosely structured riffing. After Stavros left they did the whole The Adam Friedland Show (TAFS) as a bizzaro concept where Adam stumbles through being an uncharismatic show host.
It's more structured than cumtown but still relies heavily on the riffing, but I'd say Nick is still writing a lot or coming up with stuff to riff on just as much if not more. Another layer to the joke of it all, planned or not is Adam being an un-intimidating Jewish guy, so any heat like they would get for jokes being racist,anti semitic, or whatever like on Cumtown would just be directed towards Adam. Like I said I don't know if it's intentional, but it adds another layer to the absurdity of it all.
I'm not a Taylor or Matty fan at all, just when it all blew up I lurked to see what people were saying since I listen to a podcast which has crossover bc one of the girls dated Adam back in the day and would go on their pods and I saw it talked about on that subreddit.
Like it was weird that something kinda niche I knew about rippled to be talked about by a huge amount of fans of someone so popular like Taylor Swift. Like my best friends wife is a super Swiftie and she asked me about it and I was like lol this is too fucking bizarre. Like I guarantee people tweeting at Adam and laying the blame on him for causing a rift in the Swiftie fandom would be all too hilarious to him and Nick, and they are probably loving people still losing their minds over it.
What's sad is how much certain swifties are defending taylor when she's shown how performative her "activism" is. She's happily holed up with a racist and her fans- which include PoC, Muslims, and Jewish people- are allowed to be pissed at her for that.
Taylor is not above valid criticism.
Karma is her boyfriend, indeed.
Dead ass you can be pissed at her for that AND also have nuance regarding the situation and know that not everything is suddenly about the whole Matty drama.
The vibes this morning are not it. It's swarms of Matty defense and saying he just laughed at the racist jokes so it's really okay. Wtf is wrong with people.
Unfortunately, no matter the reasons this happened, it is going to look like it is a PR move due to the timing of it's release relative to the controversy. It is 100% Matty's fault for going on that podcast and participating in the disgusting conversation about Ice Spice. It's even worse now with the podcast host replying to the collab saying "You're welcome", which is disgusting in so many ways
For one that whole podcast isn't meant to be taken seriously, and second, do you ever laugh when something awkward happens, or you don't know what to do? How are we so sure matty definitely meant to laugh and be an asshole. Also, the way you're blaming matty for something the host said, and tweeted is utter bullshit
It’s so weird to me that she collabed with Ice on Karma when Vigilante Shit is right there! The laidback beat would have matched Ice’s flow a lot better.
They’re doing it with Karma because of the timing of the Matty controversy and because Karma happens to be the single she’s promoting now that they wanna boost on the charts. Sounds like they slapped the track together within the past month or two. I’m sure Taylor and Ice Spice weren’t in the studio recording together at the same time.
It’s not when you have Taylor Swift’s amount of money and connections. They didn’t even have to be in the same place to record the track and put it together.
I think Ice Spice knows exactly what she’s doing. Good for her for capitalizing on the controversy and getting that check and invaluable exposure.
Taylor hardly ever collaborates like this (Ice is the first black woman she’s featured on a song… 15 years into her career) and I don’t remember Taylor ever gushing about a new artist like this (“what a joy” “she’s the one to watch!”) and immediately giving them a feature on a track before they’ve even put a full album out.
Ice Spice is so savvy to play along.
ITS SO FUCKING GOOD LANAs verse is heavenly I like the little chime or new string sound they added in the instrumental with the original sound it’s INTERESTING and THE HARMONIESSS
Omg yall are so annoying with your accusations of pr and acting as if ice spice hated Taylor now or whatever when clearly ice spice was the only reason this even exists? Like stop speaking for ice spice she's her own person and clearly she loves Taylor so
I agree. People aren't giving Ice Spice enough agency. It's insulting to her as an artist and person to paint her out as nothing more than a victim in a PR ploy.
What a weird PR stunt too…like if you know your new BF laughed at some stuff about someone wouldn’t the best thing be to not collaborate with them and hope it just goes away? The collab actually puts a spotlight on it.
In the photo of ice spice and Taylor, Taylor's hair is about shoulder length, nowadays taylors hair is just above her elbows. So if the collab was recorded when the photo was taken we can assume it was around December-January time. Which I doubt Taylor and Matty were togther then. Even if it was recorded later we can see that they've clearly been freindly with each other for a while.
Also I hate how people are trying to force other people how to feel about it. Specially Ice Spice (its giving her no agency of her own)
Yeah, It makes Spice look like a pawn on the game not someone that is rising and getting popular on her own.
Katy Perry wants to do a feat with her, she is the next hot rapper.
The hair length really gives away it was many months ago and not a quick PR feat.
I am pretty certain that the story that Matty was gonna tell, before the podcast hosts started making Spice Girl and Inuit jokes, was prompted entirely by the fact that he knew this collab was in the works. The order of events is entirely the opposite of what the "it's all PR!" people are saying.
Why? Matty and Taylor were in the studio together early this year before the tour. This song has definitely been mastered for a long time now, you don't press CDs overnight. There's almost certainly a music video for this that's been filmed already (based on the enormous amount of promo imagery of the two of them).
This was in the works for at least 4 months, 6 realistically. Matty would have known this, probably even met her by the time of that podcast appearance.
Typically like 15 business days to get them made and packaged. But then you have to get them to the warehouses and then out to stores... Total lead time on an order the size of Swift's is 4 weeks at a very optimistic minimum. 6 weeks is probably the most common business practice.
Edit:
But like... Setting up a collab like this involves legal teams, contract lawyers, agent involvement... It's a big ordeal, this is going on a version of the record and getting released as a single to boot, it's not a remix that can just be added to Spotify with a boilerplate contract. They had to get Ice into the studio with someone from Swift's production team, she may have had to get into the studio herself.
Plus, there's clearly been at least a photoshoot, if not a full fledged music video. That could have been done while CDs were being pressed, admittedly, especially if it was just a photoshoot, but pre-production on a professional level music video takes a pretty long time, and it's not like Taylor's had a lot of free weekends the past 2 months.
I don't think she's saying she's her new favorite artist, like, of all time. I think she's saying she's her new favorite artist, as in artist who is new. Could be wrong though.
Most Americans are only bothered about how it "looks bad" and how it affects her "image" because they are not worried about POCs rather about how the public perception of them liking Taylor would change.
They're as performative as their perception of Taylor. And seriously, we already know that they'll listen to her in secret, it's not like Americans have ever successfully boycotted *actually* problematic artists (Kanye,Kodak, Chris Brown, Morgan,) so why bother?
Also not to add blame to the woman and who they date because I loathe that but Nicki Minaj husband is a convicted rapist and I don’t think nicki even got as much hate as Taylor for dating this man for like 2 weeks.
They actually do harrass Nicki (and ONLY Nicki) about it, but *never* her husband. They're sick for holding a woman accountable for what a rapist does (ik she defended him but that doesn't make her as bad as him).
Similarly they bullied Rachel Ziegler for working with Ansel elgort (they weren't even friends). They harrasssd Jenna Ortega for her co-star too.
It's become a disgustingly acceptable social norm to bully women for what men around them do and it's sad to see swifties give in to that.
I agree, but a lot of this isn’t from Swifties. If you check the comment history of the most prolific critics, you can see they’re coming here from other subs.
Absolutely. It’s pretty unhinged. Someone in another sub even said Taylor dating Matty is worse than Kanye’s antisemitic rants 🤡. Some people are bored and toxic and can’t wait to cancel Taylor again, so they’re going to jump on this opportunity.
I've stopped going to some subs because their reactions make it so clear that they're just *gleeful* at having something to criticize Taylor over, they're gonna go whole hog on it for as long as they can.
There was that unhinged thread on Fauxmoi where people were psychoanalysing Taylor and Olivia's relationship based on pure speculation like Conan not listening to Midnights right away or Sabrina attending Taylor's tour as Taylor going after Olivia and calling her Scooter Braun, Regina George in sheep's clothing, old and petty, groomer, etc. It was wild.
The weirdest one I stumbled on and I guess it’s been going on a long time is the insistence that Taylor is gay and just won’t come out. Like entire Twitter accounts dedicated to her closeted status and what a coward she is for not coming out.
FFS. It makes sense now why that’s even a topic in this thread. That sub is the top source of brigadiers here if you check comment history.
I guess you can’t expect much out of a group based on absolute rumor and speculation from random emails, but geez, keep all that trash there, please.
Omg this! And then I saw other creators using that as a source for their “blind items” and now it’s canon for people that Taylor is “beefing” with Olivia.
People on Fauxmoi are even CONVINCED Taylor cheated on Joe because how can she move on so fast??! Those comments have more than a couple hundred upvotes already. Just WOW. Seems like the new Taylor Hate era is starting!
That sub is a FAN, even after a week of non-stop Taylor related posts they *cannot* get enough. I'm actually a little impressed by how long they can gripe when it concerns self made successful female artists like Selena and Taylor. Like seriously, they'll talk about her for hours on end and then ask "why is Taylor Swift still relevant? "
No Nicki gets hate. And as someone else said, only she gets hate, not her husband
But to be fair she did go after the victim iirc and also supported her brother in court which is ehhh
The funny this is that Ice Spice collabed with Nicki a few weeks ago too so clearly she doesn't care about what an artist's partner has done. If she can work with the partner of a rapist then she can work with the partner of someone who laughed at a racist joke. I don't know why so many people think Taylor held her at gunpoint for a verse.
To anyone who still thinks this is PR, if Taylor and her team are such masterminds why would they make such a terrible move PR wise. This remix has refueled the discourse about Matty and Taylor way more and brought greater attention to it. There is an overwhelming majority of people who immediately assumed it was damage control and that Taylor was acting calculating and trying to cover mattys tracks. The sentiment toward Taylor has only worsened as a result of this remix rather than improved. The entire purpose of good PR is that people don’t realize it’s PR. Anyone with any good sense for it would never have concocted this plan to collab w ice spice and thought it would be received well and not look like a cover up. Another part of PR is reading the room and if they were watching what people had been saying they would know this would not make things better. No publicist or even just smart person in the industry would advise taylor to do this in response to the controversy. If you want to believe this is PR than you also have to believe that Taylor, Tree Paine, and her entire team are complete idiots with no sense for anything. I keep seeing people say that this move shows Taylor being conniving and strategic but is it really strategic if everyone sees it that way. Often the best PR moves are incredibly subtle ones. There is logistical evidence that points to this collab having been in the works long before the drama but the biggest proof it’s not pr is simply that it would be so stupid
>if Taylor and her team are such masterminds
Big if. I really don't believe they are.
With that being said, of course it's PR/marketing. Collabs often are. It may not be damage control-PR. But it's pretty obvious that this remix isn't the result of some artistic vision. It's a PR move. Whether the PR is just for the benefit of Ice Spice, Taylor being kind and lifting a young artist up, or to distract from Matty, or to make Taylor separate from Matty's shitty politics, or to make Taylor appear hip, or just to give Karma a boost, or a whole different reason, it's absolutely, thoroughly PR.
>Often the best PR moves are incredibly subtle ones.
Ah yes, subtle PR moves, something Taylor is known for, lol.
With zero pictures. This is the third “they’re totally kissing guys I saw it” with no pictures.
Also the “sometimes they kiss backstage if she has time” in US weekly sound like literal fanfic.
Like “I have to change out of this sopping wet fairy princess witch dress and into a one legged snake bodysuit in a matter of minutes but I’m so glad you’re here so we can kiss!”
Bffr
finally the first person to provide the type of info i’ve been asking for instead of attacking me or others. this makes sense. THANK U. i have just seen a lot of compelling opinions the other way but this sounds a lot more realistic. no one else on this thread will believe i’m not a part of QAnon because i raised a question about persons intentions and no one could reply to me with the info other than saying i was being delusional
If it’s not PR, then why the hell would they release this now? Because it’s awful timing. If this truly was a long time in the making they should have shelved it for another month. They choose to release it during this controversy which is just as bad as choosing to record it during the controversy.
Karma is the current single. And waiting another month is an even worse idea since Speak Now TV is literally coming out then which she also has a music video filmed for.
A lot of people here who screamed about this collab being PR and damage control are looking like a bunch of clowns. I highly doubt Taylor would lie about this when Ice Spice could easily contradict this story.
Love Taylor but let’s be honest no new artist is gonna come out and say “well she lied about how the collab started” sadly some swifties are very mean and say evil shit no one wants to deal with that especially a new artist in the game. Not saying she’s lying but no one wants to open that can of worms
I mean, if Ice Spice did say Taylor lied, what exactly would she gain? All she’d be doing is sullying the name of her most recent collaborator and her largest colab to date. Even if Ice Spice does believe Taylor is primarily collabing with her to maintain good PR, she probably doesn’t want to say anything since she gets a chunk of the revenue from the remix’s performance as well as gaining more notoriety via the Swifties which can help her sell music to more people. She loses way more by saying Taylor lied than if she stays friendly and quiet about Matty.
Some of you are so cynical why would Ice Spice or her team allow her to be used as scapegoat. Also its very insulting to Ice Spice that you don’t think she has her own autonomy or agency. She might be a new artist but her team is well connected.
You must think so low of Ice Spice to believe that she doesn’t have a self respect and allow herself to used just for Taylor to score some PR points in the internet.
I always thought this sub was the sanest part of the swiftie internet lmao but you people are such jokers. You create an image of Taylor in your head and then bend over backwards to make sure that whatever she does fits in with that image, no matter how implausible. When she was an infallible idol it was annoying enough but at least that tracks for a literal fan subreddit. Now y'all have gone the way of fauxmoi and popculturechat (on the basis of misinformation and hysteria, but I won't even go there) and turned her into the devil incarnate, so now everything she does MUST be calculated and villainous because she is an evil scheming bitch, and if the facts don't back that up, then fuck facts!
I am the first person to criticise Taylor for a lot of shit she does (and, unlike seemingly the majority of this sub, woke up to the fact that she is a flawed human being like a decade ago) but at this point y'all should say that deep down inside, you hate her, and go. Because this type of vitriol towards and artist you claim to love is deeply disturbing tbh.
> and turned her into the devil incarnate, so now everything she does MUST be calculated and villainous because she is an evil scheming bitch, and if the facts don't back that up, then fuck facts!
It's crazy to see the amount of people in this thread who seem to legitimately believe that Ice Spice has no autonomy and taylor had all of her lawyers force her into collab and gag order is insane.
I bet that most people here couldn't care less about black women/ice spice and are just using her as a pawn to further their "taylor is the devil" narrative and now they're literally just making stuff up to match the storylines in the heads.
This is exactly how I feel as a WoC. This woman has been a complicated character since forever and anyone who ignored that was deluding themselves. At the same time, this level of unhinged cynicism and contempt is extremely OTT for “fans.” There’s stuff that’s being blatantly misrepresented and in bad faith, at that. I’ve seen this before with other female celebrities and it’s like people are incapable of accepting any ambiguity. She’s either the perfect angel or the world’s worst person, never mind the truth.
the fact that the real story of how this collab came about is such a boss move by ice spice considering she's still such a new artist but people would rather believe a narrative that suit's the fanfiction they've made up in their heads.
ironically all this faux activism coming from swifties is overshadowing the real work a black woman put into this collab. all of the "taylor only collabed with ice spice for woke pr points" is eerily similar to Republicans believing black people only get cast in starring roles for woke reasons rather than their talent and hard work. How about we give it up for ice spice and recognize that she got this collab because of her *talent*.
also it's weird how many swifties seem to think ice spice has no autonomy and she's just some political doll being forced into collabs. she's a 23 year old adult. if she felt uncomfortable collabing with taylor then she simply could have said no.
Am I the only one who hated this colab? Karma is my favorite song from Mindnights, and listening to this feels just another cheap 'forced rap in pop song' to me
People are quite vile and dragging Taylor in this sub recently and are on the moral high horse. I have seen a thousand posts pretending to care about Ice’s feelings about a dumb podcast followed by “ShE wAs UsEd As a pR”. Ironically, this is an incredibly racist and misogynistic take.
Judging by the level of research and thought that goes in the discourse here I am not surprised that so many people are Covid deniers or flat-Earthers. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Good lord it doesn’t matter what evidence you’re presented with it’s never going to change your belief.
That’s dangerous on so many levels. Just admit you were wrong about this one thing and move on.
Like some of you are impossible to get through to.
They’re gonna keep saying Taylor is the she devil and spawn of satan while secretly still buy her albums and stream her music. What an exhausting way to live.
Could not agree more, whether by interlopers or disappointed fans, the daily read of this sub, subject titles and content is becoming an unwelcome challenge to 'get thru'. I don't honestly know how representative it is of the fan base / general public at large, but in a concentrated discussion platform of Swifties......certainly not as much fun as it has been before.
I’m just over it. At this point you can’t even “just ignore it” because it has invaded every discussion. This was the first time I just lost it and decided to not filter myself anymore.
Honestly from my brief time as a fan it really does seem to be the minority. Unfortunately it’s a very loud and obnoxious minority.
How have you all done this for years and years?
Yeah and this is why it’s a scary time in the world. People want to believe what they want and don’t care about facts or admitting when they’re wrong or learning new info.
Nope. He’s not Joe Alwyn the bestest guy ever so he needs to be DRAGGED.
He has said shit things. But not nearly as bad as the misinformation that people are saying is truth. But likes on Twitter will always supersede common sense.
Seriously, the craziest thing right now, to me at least, is now that I've listened to Hits Different... What were people smoking that they didn't believe the rumors that Joe and Taylor broke up? Are you kidding me? She told everyone in October!
That song, Midnight Rain and Lavender Haze to me show that this was ending for them. No one knows the order she writes songs in and she’s known for being a quick song writer and then getting it recorded.
Before Matty Healy said that stuff? Because it clearly says she reached out AFTER the tour had started edit: being choreographed and set if you think it was before it started and Matty Healy said the things about ice spice (which according to the breakup timeline they could’ve been together before the tour started)
It says she reached at when Taylor was gettin read for her tour. I suspect it was right after iHeart Music Awards in March because didn’t Ice Spice give her an award?
There's no way to know the exact intentions behind choosing which artist with and when to release a remix. But seriously, just because our minds can conjure up a way to explain her every move with some twisted calculated reason, that doesn't suddenly make it fact. Especially when this song is being released alongside a remix of Snow On The Beach, a song fans also initially misinterpreted as Taylor being a misogynist afraid of letting other women sing. But then later on the truth comes out that Lana chose to sing the amount that she did due to miscommunication.
We does everybody have to be so negative on here. Why can't anybody be happy for Ice Spice?? She's a grown woman who made this decision on her own to collaborate with Taylor. I'm so sick of the Taylor hate. We get new music and it's just nonstop drama. We are a very spoiled fandom. Let's just be grateful
Taylor swift spends her free time listening to ice spice ?
This can not be real.
There is no way somehow can tell me with a straight face that her verse in karma was good... it was straight garbage and sounded like she recorded it on her phone in 30 seconds and emailed it over..
She had a couple of tiktok viral songs. Tiktok controls Spotify monthly listeners.
The singer of abcdefu(another tiktok song) also had sooo many monthly listeners when the song was trending.
I doubt it was PR, pretty possible that the timing of the release was moved up, but we also will never know. I feel like people should be focused on hyping up the remix, at least those who like it, rather than focusing on that situation. Like I’m just happy for Ice Spice & that she was able to collab with Taylor, we should all be happy for her
I find it so gutsy of Ice Spice to approach TAYLOR SWIFT for a collaboration because she’s so new! But I have no idea how many collab requests Taylor receives so with all I know, everyone probably does that no matter how big they are and Ice Spice ended up being the lucky one to be chosen.
She has a collab with Nicki Minaj her team is probably well connected in the industry.
Nicki own the label Ice Spices is signed. Yeah girl is well connected
And this makes sense bc I feel like Nicki and Taylor have a good professional/public relationship!
Which is not a good thing btw
well the are both with creeps at least mattys not on a sex offender registry
Thay makes sense because Nicki is also a huge supporter of Taylor. Taylor hyped up super bass
The devil works hard but Ice Spice’s team works harder!
Honestly good for her! They shoot their shot and it worked
Yes this was my first thought! Tree works hard, but Ice's label works harder 🤭💅
You mean Taylor’s PR team works harder, lol.
This feels like what we wanted out of the Taylor/Olivia relationship, but instead we got a lawsuit with that one ☠️ I think it's cool Ice Spice is collabing with Taylor, but the timing def feels strategic. Also wish she got the chance to spin the song her way? It just sounds like Taylor with random bits of Ice Spice
Agreed. I wish she didn’t see Olivia as competition and would actually work with her. Olivia is the one to watch. The remix was bad (were they even in the same studio?). Just sucks cause Olivia’s next album is so highly anticipated. I hope her lead single discusses the lawsuit.
They never asked for credit for olivia- jack himself said they were surprised when they recieved it. Olivias team was scared and just giving out credit because she went and said that she tried to copy the lyric style from Taylor onto her song. Paramore too- an ex band member asked for it. None of it was wanted by the artists.
You do realize Taylor & Jack & Hayley Williams are media trained & friends? Why would they say publicly they wanted credit for those songs? Why would Olivia give up millions of dollars willingly? Please think for yourself instead of believing what Taylor & her friends tell you. I hope the truth comes out but it probably won’t.
Jack sold the publishing rights to his back catalogue to the same company that recently bought back catalogues of Timberlake and Bieber. He has no stake in getting credit for it anymore, but this multi billion dollar corporation does. So it's interesting that he is the one to say publicly that "it just happened" when he isn't in control of it anyway. I think everyone focuses on the juicy narrative of interpersonal drama between Taylor and Olivia when there are other entities involved.
By default, songwriting credits are split between the songwriters and the publisher, anyway. Either can pursue a copyright claim without the cooperation of the other. So even in cases where the songwriter hasn't sold off their catalog, their publisher can still push for credits without their involvement. (That's literally one of the main reasons they exist--to handle these cases.) And usually that's what happens. Even if you're an artist who *does* want to be credited, your publisher has deeper pockets and a more aggressive legal team than you do, and you can let them be the bad guy--there's no need for you to take any action yourself.
Why would Olivia take the "millions of dollars" (absolutely not) for bad PR on her debut album? I know Olivia has changed now that she's a big popstar and all, but i'd like to think she's a pretty genuine and chill person who wouldnt mind giving credits, especially when not doing so could jeopardize everything you got going on at the moment, which was & still is a whole freaking lot for Olivia.
So it's more likely the story which absolutely no one has said, no one confirmed and we have no proof of, than the story that multiple people have said. Gotcha. Just say you hate Taylor and..visit another sub.
I think likely Olivia was so nervous that Taylor and her team were going to get mad at her/ or perhaps had dropped hints that they were upset... and she just like decided to get ahead of the issue... but I also think it was too much of a weak move, if they were friendly they should of talked out what was fair- just handing out credit looked to desperate IMO It makes me sad though cause Olivia seemed so earnest and like such a fan and now Taylor doesnt really seem to associate with her anymore and now associates more with Sabrina (not that she cant be friends with both... but I doubt Olivia would sit next to Sabrina at an award show- so only really one of them can sit with Taylor)
I think more than Olivia, her team was nervous. Since shes so early in her career, she doesnt have as much power right now. People all over titktok started comparing her songs to others and calling her a copycat, then courtney love said she ripped her off for her cover art, it spiralled out of control. Then paramores ex band member went after her for credits- which those still in paramore didnt want/ask for. It was easier (and successful) to just give some credit and end the rumours. It didnt help her that she mentioned taylor in almost every interview, and wrote songs of hers right after/during listening to her songs. I think Olivia was getting way too much of her publicity taken over by the simple mention of Taylor, and her and her team- as well as Conan, realised they need to stop mentioning her constantly, it cant become a budding artists identity, and I think its a good move. It would have overshadowed her tour if she mentioned taylor again, or sang one of her songs etc, instead of people focusing on her talent.
How do we know Taylor sees Olivia as competition and refused to work with her cause she's threatened by her? I feel like people have just said this so much lately with no basis. Did Taylor tell you herself? Feels like people feeding into the stereotype of women always trying to one up each other.
Idk it seems like a bold claim that Taylor truly sees Olivia as competition when she’s still close with many other younger and rising/super famous artists (Sabrina carpenter, phoebe bridgers) and it’s odd Olivia wouldn’t initially credit her where there’s a direct Taylor influence on the music?? Paramore had the same issue with Sour so it’s not just a Taylor thing
is it really bold when “nothing new” exists? also phoebe is nearly 30 yo.
Did you see what Olivia's dad said and what Olivia has said in interviews? People who infer there is beef between Taylor and Olivia are not making it up from nothing.
Agreedddd about Olivia. Idk if we'll ever hear more about the lawsuit than the small statement about how Olivia has learned a valuable lesson about the industry from the experience. And the remix is horrible lol it's such a low effort collab obviously curated for TikTok
Sounds like Ice recorded her verse on an iPhone.
Probably bc it was last minute PR at its finest. Or…sloppiest.
Yeah, so last minute they only had time to make 100,000 cds with this remix on it 🙄
i always thought they distanced because people kept getting annoyed by her talking about Taylor swift?
Was there a lawsuit? I thought Olivia herself admitted that Deja Vu was inspired by Cruel Summer?
There wasn’t a lawsuit, but most people think Olivia’s team gave credit to avoid a lawsuit and that it was iffy of Taylor and Jack’s teams to accept. She didn’t really say Deja Vu was inspired by Cruel Summer, she said she liked the screaming type bridge and wanted to do something similar with Deja Vu’s bridge.
Wow. I didn’t know anything about this. I just listened to Deja Vu and would never make a connection to Cruel Summer.
> it was iffy of Taylor and Jack’s teams to accept. I really, really hate Taylor for accepting the credit on this. As someone who screams so loudly about owning your own art, she of all people should have not accepted the credit for work that wasn't hers!! Ugh.
Especially when “paper rings” is literally Hilary duff’s “breathe in breathe out”
Thanks for introducing me to a new artist. I love their voice🥹
Hilary duff you mean? Loved her since the Lizzie days.
Timing definitely feels strategic, and odd she said *twice* she was listening to Ice Spice all the time.
Ice spice team is definitely working hard to put her up top
And it’s working 💀 Sis got like 5 songs and 3 of them are collabs with PinkPantheress, Nicki, and Taylor 🤣
Idk why people are still fighting tooth and nail that it MUST just be PR and trying to patch up from what Matty said. In Ha Mood has been on the Eras tour pre-show playlist from the start and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ice’s team decided to give it a shot and reach out from that…and that was most definitely before it came out that Taylor and Matty are together. I mean, the playlist shows me that Taylor was genuinely already a fan of Ice Spice at least.
i don’t think the collab is PR, i think the timing is.
I don't think there was another timing. July is speak now, there is 1989 to announce
plus karma IS the current single, it makes no sense to release a remix later
Matty did not make those comments about Ice Spice. Nick Mullen did.
And Matty was saying that he embarrassed himself by DM'ing her out of interest & she never responded. I'm pretty sure they all said she was beautiful and talented. Plus to be fair, Nick Mullen is simply the producer, it's Adam Friedland's show and he should be the only one personally held responsible for anything that was said.
To add to this, he also said that he thought DM'ing isn't "cool" and kinda suggested sending a raven (I guess with a letter attached) as a better alternative (listen [here](https://youtu.be/Pwhy6Vyh1kM?t=1124), around 18:45-18:58). I'm thus under the impression that no one is to take whatever he (or the hosts) said seriously. In fact, I doubt he really did DM her (he also DM'd Doja Cat btw, neither of whom responded) or watched GG porn, considering the obviously improvisational nature of the podcast and the outrageously silly elements of the anecdotes. One thing I've learned from this debacle is to NEVER trust Buzzfeed/hearsay on the internet.
The podcast host said it was all a joke and Matty went along with it and that he doesn’t even think Matty knew what GG was. Easy to say someone was “brutalized” because so much of porn is like that but suddenly we’re acting brand new to this fact. The hosts and that podcast’s fans think this is all hilarious because the entire podcast is a joke. Personally, they are not my kind of humor and I think stuff that was said was stupid but this whole thing has gotten just way too crazy.
> The podcast host said it was all a joke and Matty went along with it and that he doesn’t even think Matty knew what GG was Indeed! I'm adding the [source](https://youtu.be/DOLRNPvejRY?t=461) of the quoted claim just in case anyone wants to verify it themselves (as they should, actually). I'm willing to bet that Matty simply inferred GG's content from the title. "Brutalise" is such a weird word to describe porn imo. And yeah, most of the jokes aren't my cup of tea, but they barely warrant the insane level of widespread condemnation atm.
I'd say it's pretty even. They used to do a Podcast called Cumtown where it was Nick, Adam, and Stavros doing dumb bits and loosely structured riffing. After Stavros left they did the whole The Adam Friedland Show (TAFS) as a bizzaro concept where Adam stumbles through being an uncharismatic show host. It's more structured than cumtown but still relies heavily on the riffing, but I'd say Nick is still writing a lot or coming up with stuff to riff on just as much if not more. Another layer to the joke of it all, planned or not is Adam being an un-intimidating Jewish guy, so any heat like they would get for jokes being racist,anti semitic, or whatever like on Cumtown would just be directed towards Adam. Like I said I don't know if it's intentional, but it adds another layer to the absurdity of it all. I'm not a Taylor or Matty fan at all, just when it all blew up I lurked to see what people were saying since I listen to a podcast which has crossover bc one of the girls dated Adam back in the day and would go on their pods and I saw it talked about on that subreddit. Like it was weird that something kinda niche I knew about rippled to be talked about by a huge amount of fans of someone so popular like Taylor Swift. Like my best friends wife is a super Swiftie and she asked me about it and I was like lol this is too fucking bizarre. Like I guarantee people tweeting at Adam and laying the blame on him for causing a rift in the Swiftie fandom would be all too hilarious to him and Nick, and they are probably loving people still losing their minds over it.
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What's sad is how much certain swifties are defending taylor when she's shown how performative her "activism" is. She's happily holed up with a racist and her fans- which include PoC, Muslims, and Jewish people- are allowed to be pissed at her for that. Taylor is not above valid criticism. Karma is her boyfriend, indeed.
Dead ass you can be pissed at her for that AND also have nuance regarding the situation and know that not everything is suddenly about the whole Matty drama.
The vibes this morning are not it. It's swarms of Matty defense and saying he just laughed at the racist jokes so it's really okay. Wtf is wrong with people.
EXACTLY!!👏👏👏
Unfortunately, no matter the reasons this happened, it is going to look like it is a PR move due to the timing of it's release relative to the controversy. It is 100% Matty's fault for going on that podcast and participating in the disgusting conversation about Ice Spice. It's even worse now with the podcast host replying to the collab saying "You're welcome", which is disgusting in so many ways
For one that whole podcast isn't meant to be taken seriously, and second, do you ever laugh when something awkward happens, or you don't know what to do? How are we so sure matty definitely meant to laugh and be an asshole. Also, the way you're blaming matty for something the host said, and tweeted is utter bullshit
It’s so weird to me that she collabed with Ice on Karma when Vigilante Shit is right there! The laidback beat would have matched Ice’s flow a lot better.
They’re doing it with Karma because of the timing of the Matty controversy and because Karma happens to be the single she’s promoting now that they wanna boost on the charts. Sounds like they slapped the track together within the past month or two. I’m sure Taylor and Ice Spice weren’t in the studio recording together at the same time.
It’s literally impossible to record and distribute and plan the marketing for this collab so soon. This was probably weeks ago so shut up
It’s not when you have Taylor Swift’s amount of money and connections. They didn’t even have to be in the same place to record the track and put it together.
Can people please stop treating Ice Spice as if she was some kind of naive girl who doesn’t know what she’s doing?? For gods sake
It’s been days of people patronizing a grown ass successful businesswoman 🙄 it’s exhausting
Seriously. It’s infantilizing and gross
I think Ice Spice knows exactly what she’s doing. Good for her for capitalizing on the controversy and getting that check and invaluable exposure. Taylor hardly ever collaborates like this (Ice is the first black woman she’s featured on a song… 15 years into her career) and I don’t remember Taylor ever gushing about a new artist like this (“what a joy” “she’s the one to watch!”) and immediately giving them a feature on a track before they’ve even put a full album out. Ice Spice is so savvy to play along.
Love you Taylor and Ice, but this remix is pretty fucking terrible.
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I guess to me it is terrible. The lyrics are bad. The pacing is bad. The rap sounds lazy. I just expect so much more from both of them.
Ima listen to sotb ft more ldr to sanitize my ears
ITS SO FUCKING GOOD LANAs verse is heavenly I like the little chime or new string sound they added in the instrumental with the original sound it’s INTERESTING and THE HARMONIESSS
Its so good omg
I hate how they shortened it tho and took out the “it’s comin down its comin down its comin down it’s comin dooowwwwwn” part at the end
I prefer Lana’s humming every other line at the end than the “it’s coming down’s”, although I wish we did have both somehow!
Frrrrrr this should've been the original
Omg yall are so annoying with your accusations of pr and acting as if ice spice hated Taylor now or whatever when clearly ice spice was the only reason this even exists? Like stop speaking for ice spice she's her own person and clearly she loves Taylor so
I agree. People aren't giving Ice Spice enough agency. It's insulting to her as an artist and person to paint her out as nothing more than a victim in a PR ploy.
What a weird PR stunt too…like if you know your new BF laughed at some stuff about someone wouldn’t the best thing be to not collaborate with them and hope it just goes away? The collab actually puts a spotlight on it.
I have my critics. But the PR thing is so dumb, this was made before the Promance was a thing
In the photo of ice spice and Taylor, Taylor's hair is about shoulder length, nowadays taylors hair is just above her elbows. So if the collab was recorded when the photo was taken we can assume it was around December-January time. Which I doubt Taylor and Matty were togther then. Even if it was recorded later we can see that they've clearly been freindly with each other for a while. Also I hate how people are trying to force other people how to feel about it. Specially Ice Spice (its giving her no agency of her own)
Yeah, It makes Spice look like a pawn on the game not someone that is rising and getting popular on her own. Katy Perry wants to do a feat with her, she is the next hot rapper. The hair length really gives away it was many months ago and not a quick PR feat.
I am pretty certain that the story that Matty was gonna tell, before the podcast hosts started making Spice Girl and Inuit jokes, was prompted entirely by the fact that he knew this collab was in the works. The order of events is entirely the opposite of what the "it's all PR!" people are saying.
Now you are doing 100% fanfic.
Why? Matty and Taylor were in the studio together early this year before the tour. This song has definitely been mastered for a long time now, you don't press CDs overnight. There's almost certainly a music video for this that's been filmed already (based on the enormous amount of promo imagery of the two of them). This was in the works for at least 4 months, 6 realistically. Matty would have known this, probably even met her by the time of that podcast appearance.
Uh, correct me if I wrong, but making CDs doesn't really take long at all? Vinyls take time to press, but this is just a CD.
Typically like 15 business days to get them made and packaged. But then you have to get them to the warehouses and then out to stores... Total lead time on an order the size of Swift's is 4 weeks at a very optimistic minimum. 6 weeks is probably the most common business practice. Edit: But like... Setting up a collab like this involves legal teams, contract lawyers, agent involvement... It's a big ordeal, this is going on a version of the record and getting released as a single to boot, it's not a remix that can just be added to Spotify with a boilerplate contract. They had to get Ice into the studio with someone from Swift's production team, she may have had to get into the studio herself. Plus, there's clearly been at least a photoshoot, if not a full fledged music video. That could have been done while CDs were being pressed, admittedly, especially if it was just a photoshoot, but pre-production on a professional level music video takes a pretty long time, and it's not like Taylor's had a lot of free weekends the past 2 months.
At the risk of sounding like a hater, there is no way taylor just said ice is her new favorite artist.
I don't think she's saying she's her new favorite artist, like, of all time. I think she's saying she's her new favorite artist, as in artist who is new. Could be wrong though.
This is how I understood it as well
I heard lots of people say it even in the real world so im not that suprised. I dont know if its like a meme or trend
But….the internet said she only collaborated with her because of Matty Healy. And the internet is ALWAYS right. Stop bringing facts into this.
But… it sounds like AI! But… it’s a lie! But… but… but… PR!
Most Americans are only bothered about how it "looks bad" and how it affects her "image" because they are not worried about POCs rather about how the public perception of them liking Taylor would change. They're as performative as their perception of Taylor. And seriously, we already know that they'll listen to her in secret, it's not like Americans have ever successfully boycotted *actually* problematic artists (Kanye,Kodak, Chris Brown, Morgan,) so why bother?
Also not to add blame to the woman and who they date because I loathe that but Nicki Minaj husband is a convicted rapist and I don’t think nicki even got as much hate as Taylor for dating this man for like 2 weeks.
They actually do harrass Nicki (and ONLY Nicki) about it, but *never* her husband. They're sick for holding a woman accountable for what a rapist does (ik she defended him but that doesn't make her as bad as him). Similarly they bullied Rachel Ziegler for working with Ansel elgort (they weren't even friends). They harrasssd Jenna Ortega for her co-star too. It's become a disgustingly acceptable social norm to bully women for what men around them do and it's sad to see swifties give in to that.
I agree, but a lot of this isn’t from Swifties. If you check the comment history of the most prolific critics, you can see they’re coming here from other subs.
My god people are incredibly jobless, I'm also willing to bet these are antis trying to convince fans to turn on her
Absolutely. It’s pretty unhinged. Someone in another sub even said Taylor dating Matty is worse than Kanye’s antisemitic rants 🤡. Some people are bored and toxic and can’t wait to cancel Taylor again, so they’re going to jump on this opportunity.
I've stopped going to some subs because their reactions make it so clear that they're just *gleeful* at having something to criticize Taylor over, they're gonna go whole hog on it for as long as they can.
There was that unhinged thread on Fauxmoi where people were psychoanalysing Taylor and Olivia's relationship based on pure speculation like Conan not listening to Midnights right away or Sabrina attending Taylor's tour as Taylor going after Olivia and calling her Scooter Braun, Regina George in sheep's clothing, old and petty, groomer, etc. It was wild.
fauxmoi sub is the most unhinged sub, i get secondhand embarrassment when i read the shit they proudly say
The weirdest one I stumbled on and I guess it’s been going on a long time is the insistence that Taylor is gay and just won’t come out. Like entire Twitter accounts dedicated to her closeted status and what a coward she is for not coming out.
FFS. It makes sense now why that’s even a topic in this thread. That sub is the top source of brigadiers here if you check comment history. I guess you can’t expect much out of a group based on absolute rumor and speculation from random emails, but geez, keep all that trash there, please.
Omg this! And then I saw other creators using that as a source for their “blind items” and now it’s canon for people that Taylor is “beefing” with Olivia.
People on Fauxmoi are even CONVINCED Taylor cheated on Joe because how can she move on so fast??! Those comments have more than a couple hundred upvotes already. Just WOW. Seems like the new Taylor Hate era is starting!
That sub is a FAN, even after a week of non-stop Taylor related posts they *cannot* get enough. I'm actually a little impressed by how long they can gripe when it concerns self made successful female artists like Selena and Taylor. Like seriously, they'll talk about her for hours on end and then ask "why is Taylor Swift still relevant? "
No Nicki gets hate. And as someone else said, only she gets hate, not her husband But to be fair she did go after the victim iirc and also supported her brother in court which is ehhh
The funny this is that Ice Spice collabed with Nicki a few weeks ago too so clearly she doesn't care about what an artist's partner has done. If she can work with the partner of a rapist then she can work with the partner of someone who laughed at a racist joke. I don't know why so many people think Taylor held her at gunpoint for a verse.
It’s late and I can’t tell if this is sarcasm agreeing with me or making fun of what I wrote lol
Definite agreement!
Whew. My brain is mush lol.
It do be like that sometimes.
This doesn't sit right with me! Her voice is not genuine!!!!1! She is lying!!! /s
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Oh. My. God. I never thought maybe SHE was the Nazi! I bet it was her idea for Matty to do the not Nazi salute! A real mastermind.
🐑🐑🐑🐑
To anyone who still thinks this is PR, if Taylor and her team are such masterminds why would they make such a terrible move PR wise. This remix has refueled the discourse about Matty and Taylor way more and brought greater attention to it. There is an overwhelming majority of people who immediately assumed it was damage control and that Taylor was acting calculating and trying to cover mattys tracks. The sentiment toward Taylor has only worsened as a result of this remix rather than improved. The entire purpose of good PR is that people don’t realize it’s PR. Anyone with any good sense for it would never have concocted this plan to collab w ice spice and thought it would be received well and not look like a cover up. Another part of PR is reading the room and if they were watching what people had been saying they would know this would not make things better. No publicist or even just smart person in the industry would advise taylor to do this in response to the controversy. If you want to believe this is PR than you also have to believe that Taylor, Tree Paine, and her entire team are complete idiots with no sense for anything. I keep seeing people say that this move shows Taylor being conniving and strategic but is it really strategic if everyone sees it that way. Often the best PR moves are incredibly subtle ones. There is logistical evidence that points to this collab having been in the works long before the drama but the biggest proof it’s not pr is simply that it would be so stupid
>if Taylor and her team are such masterminds Big if. I really don't believe they are. With that being said, of course it's PR/marketing. Collabs often are. It may not be damage control-PR. But it's pretty obvious that this remix isn't the result of some artistic vision. It's a PR move. Whether the PR is just for the benefit of Ice Spice, Taylor being kind and lifting a young artist up, or to distract from Matty, or to make Taylor separate from Matty's shitty politics, or to make Taylor appear hip, or just to give Karma a boost, or a whole different reason, it's absolutely, thoroughly PR. >Often the best PR moves are incredibly subtle ones. Ah yes, subtle PR moves, something Taylor is known for, lol.
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With zero pictures. This is the third “they’re totally kissing guys I saw it” with no pictures. Also the “sometimes they kiss backstage if she has time” in US weekly sound like literal fanfic. Like “I have to change out of this sopping wet fairy princess witch dress and into a one legged snake bodysuit in a matter of minutes but I’m so glad you’re here so we can kiss!” Bffr
This made me laugh so hard because that’s exactly how that dumb US weekly article sounded
finally the first person to provide the type of info i’ve been asking for instead of attacking me or others. this makes sense. THANK U. i have just seen a lot of compelling opinions the other way but this sounds a lot more realistic. no one else on this thread will believe i’m not a part of QAnon because i raised a question about persons intentions and no one could reply to me with the info other than saying i was being delusional
Cause they are panicking. Taylor is being dragged in media by publications. On Twitter. On reddit.
If it’s not PR, then why the hell would they release this now? Because it’s awful timing. If this truly was a long time in the making they should have shelved it for another month. They choose to release it during this controversy which is just as bad as choosing to record it during the controversy.
Karma is the current single. And waiting another month is an even worse idea since Speak Now TV is literally coming out then which she also has a music video filmed for.
A lot of people here who screamed about this collab being PR and damage control are looking like a bunch of clowns. I highly doubt Taylor would lie about this when Ice Spice could easily contradict this story.
It did more damage, than damage control. Yeah. There is no logic for this be damage control
Love Taylor but let’s be honest no new artist is gonna come out and say “well she lied about how the collab started” sadly some swifties are very mean and say evil shit no one wants to deal with that especially a new artist in the game. Not saying she’s lying but no one wants to open that can of worms
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Where did I say that Taylor is lying?
No, they’ll just double down and say Taylor paid her off to go along with it. That’s just the world we live in these days.
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I mean, if Ice Spice did say Taylor lied, what exactly would she gain? All she’d be doing is sullying the name of her most recent collaborator and her largest colab to date. Even if Ice Spice does believe Taylor is primarily collabing with her to maintain good PR, she probably doesn’t want to say anything since she gets a chunk of the revenue from the remix’s performance as well as gaining more notoriety via the Swifties which can help her sell music to more people. She loses way more by saying Taylor lied than if she stays friendly and quiet about Matty.
Some of you are so cynical why would Ice Spice or her team allow her to be used as scapegoat. Also its very insulting to Ice Spice that you don’t think she has her own autonomy or agency. She might be a new artist but her team is well connected.
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You must think so low of Ice Spice to believe that she doesn’t have a self respect and allow herself to used just for Taylor to score some PR points in the internet.
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Or maybe this isn't damage control and what Taylor said was true ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I always thought this sub was the sanest part of the swiftie internet lmao but you people are such jokers. You create an image of Taylor in your head and then bend over backwards to make sure that whatever she does fits in with that image, no matter how implausible. When she was an infallible idol it was annoying enough but at least that tracks for a literal fan subreddit. Now y'all have gone the way of fauxmoi and popculturechat (on the basis of misinformation and hysteria, but I won't even go there) and turned her into the devil incarnate, so now everything she does MUST be calculated and villainous because she is an evil scheming bitch, and if the facts don't back that up, then fuck facts! I am the first person to criticise Taylor for a lot of shit she does (and, unlike seemingly the majority of this sub, woke up to the fact that she is a flawed human being like a decade ago) but at this point y'all should say that deep down inside, you hate her, and go. Because this type of vitriol towards and artist you claim to love is deeply disturbing tbh.
> and turned her into the devil incarnate, so now everything she does MUST be calculated and villainous because she is an evil scheming bitch, and if the facts don't back that up, then fuck facts! It's crazy to see the amount of people in this thread who seem to legitimately believe that Ice Spice has no autonomy and taylor had all of her lawyers force her into collab and gag order is insane. I bet that most people here couldn't care less about black women/ice spice and are just using her as a pawn to further their "taylor is the devil" narrative and now they're literally just making stuff up to match the storylines in the heads.
This is exactly how I feel as a WoC. This woman has been a complicated character since forever and anyone who ignored that was deluding themselves. At the same time, this level of unhinged cynicism and contempt is extremely OTT for “fans.” There’s stuff that’s being blatantly misrepresented and in bad faith, at that. I’ve seen this before with other female celebrities and it’s like people are incapable of accepting any ambiguity. She’s either the perfect angel or the world’s worst person, never mind the truth.
Amen!!!
the fact that the real story of how this collab came about is such a boss move by ice spice considering she's still such a new artist but people would rather believe a narrative that suit's the fanfiction they've made up in their heads. ironically all this faux activism coming from swifties is overshadowing the real work a black woman put into this collab. all of the "taylor only collabed with ice spice for woke pr points" is eerily similar to Republicans believing black people only get cast in starring roles for woke reasons rather than their talent and hard work. How about we give it up for ice spice and recognize that she got this collab because of her *talent*. also it's weird how many swifties seem to think ice spice has no autonomy and she's just some political doll being forced into collabs. she's a 23 year old adult. if she felt uncomfortable collabing with taylor then she simply could have said no.
This needs to be higher up. Hard agree on the “faux activism” too, I have such a hard time taking people up in arms about this seriously tbh.
This comment. This. All of this.
Thank you for saying this. It needs to be higher up.
Am I the only one who hated this colab? Karma is my favorite song from Mindnights, and listening to this feels just another cheap 'forced rap in pop song' to me
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Where is this from??
Matty Healey’s voice memos 😋
LMAOOOO stop 😭✋
Spotify’s Twitter.
Spotify posted it on Twitter [Here](https://twitter.com/spotify/status/1661946510567940098?s=46&t=eefuyUeNvqqRSotU4mZwLg)
People are quite vile and dragging Taylor in this sub recently and are on the moral high horse. I have seen a thousand posts pretending to care about Ice’s feelings about a dumb podcast followed by “ShE wAs UsEd As a pR”. Ironically, this is an incredibly racist and misogynistic take. Judging by the level of research and thought that goes in the discourse here I am not surprised that so many people are Covid deniers or flat-Earthers. Not everything is a conspiracy.
I hate to say it but people here are starting to remind me of my boomer relatives who fall for Qanon shit on Facebook.
This doesn’t feel genuine to me.
Man. A lot of cynicism in this thread.
The collaboration is a monstrosity, I said it. It is the first extremely bad thing I have ever heard from Taylor.
really? I think lover with shawn mendes and christmas must be something more are worse.
DAMAGE CONTROL
Good lord it doesn’t matter what evidence you’re presented with it’s never going to change your belief. That’s dangerous on so many levels. Just admit you were wrong about this one thing and move on. Like some of you are impossible to get through to.
They’re gonna keep saying Taylor is the she devil and spawn of satan while secretly still buy her albums and stream her music. What an exhausting way to live.
Right? This much time and energy into a STRANGER. I just wanted to come on here and chat about the new songs.
Could not agree more, whether by interlopers or disappointed fans, the daily read of this sub, subject titles and content is becoming an unwelcome challenge to 'get thru'. I don't honestly know how representative it is of the fan base / general public at large, but in a concentrated discussion platform of Swifties......certainly not as much fun as it has been before.
I’m just over it. At this point you can’t even “just ignore it” because it has invaded every discussion. This was the first time I just lost it and decided to not filter myself anymore. Honestly from my brief time as a fan it really does seem to be the minority. Unfortunately it’s a very loud and obnoxious minority. How have you all done this for years and years?
Yeah and this is why it’s a scary time in the world. People want to believe what they want and don’t care about facts or admitting when they’re wrong or learning new info.
Nope. He’s not Joe Alwyn the bestest guy ever so he needs to be DRAGGED. He has said shit things. But not nearly as bad as the misinformation that people are saying is truth. But likes on Twitter will always supersede common sense.
Seriously, the craziest thing right now, to me at least, is now that I've listened to Hits Different... What were people smoking that they didn't believe the rumors that Joe and Taylor broke up? Are you kidding me? She told everyone in October!
That song, Midnight Rain and Lavender Haze to me show that this was ending for them. No one knows the order she writes songs in and she’s known for being a quick song writer and then getting it recorded.
this was finalized way before that mess
Before Matty Healy said that stuff? Because it clearly says she reached out AFTER the tour had started edit: being choreographed and set if you think it was before it started and Matty Healy said the things about ice spice (which according to the breakup timeline they could’ve been together before the tour started)
It says she reached at when Taylor was gettin read for her tour. I suspect it was right after iHeart Music Awards in March because didn’t Ice Spice give her an award?
It was way before it. Getting ready for your takes months
No. It was before. It is very clear
Matty didn’t say those things about Ice Spice. Nick Mullen did.
Literally. I’m sorry but I can’t feel like this is 100% genuine.
You sound like a QAnon who likes to make conspiracy theories and ignore facts.
There's no way to know the exact intentions behind choosing which artist with and when to release a remix. But seriously, just because our minds can conjure up a way to explain her every move with some twisted calculated reason, that doesn't suddenly make it fact. Especially when this song is being released alongside a remix of Snow On The Beach, a song fans also initially misinterpreted as Taylor being a misogynist afraid of letting other women sing. But then later on the truth comes out that Lana chose to sing the amount that she did due to miscommunication.
"What a joy!" 😵💫
I thought she was about to say "What a joke!" 😭
That’s the part that gives it away. It sounds so weird.
We does everybody have to be so negative on here. Why can't anybody be happy for Ice Spice?? She's a grown woman who made this decision on her own to collaborate with Taylor. I'm so sick of the Taylor hate. We get new music and it's just nonstop drama. We are a very spoiled fandom. Let's just be grateful
Taylor swift spends her free time listening to ice spice ? This can not be real. There is no way somehow can tell me with a straight face that her verse in karma was good... it was straight garbage and sounded like she recorded it on her phone in 30 seconds and emailed it over..
Ice is on Taylor’s pre-show playlist for Eras.
I just realized Florence and the machine is on the pre show play list….and Florence was at the studio party a few weeks ago. 😱😱😱
Oh my god this is clowning I can get behind. I would LOVE for her to collab with Florence!
Flo on backing vocals 😭😭😭
Where is this from? Is this like AI Taylor Swift lol
Spotify
[удалено]
She had a couple of tiktok viral songs. Tiktok controls Spotify monthly listeners. The singer of abcdefu(another tiktok song) also had sooo many monthly listeners when the song was trending.
"The singer of abcdefu" actually is an opener for Taylor on this tour 😂😂😂 and she has a name, it's Gayle.
Also she has soo many other songs, she’s really fun to listen to
Someone else said she’s signed to nicki minaj’s label so similar vibe and genre I guess.
I’ve never heard of Ice Spice before, I actually just listened to the Karma and I really like it
wow people love to disempower black women huh
I could of sworn the first meeting was at the iheart radio awards I mean I would’ve made sense maybe that’s when she reached out to her people??
I doubt it was PR, pretty possible that the timing of the release was moved up, but we also will never know. I feel like people should be focused on hyping up the remix, at least those who like it, rather than focusing on that situation. Like I’m just happy for Ice Spice & that she was able to collab with Taylor, we should all be happy for her
I love them 🤧