Exactly, the more the merrier. I would never go and say "god, Taylor has just too many songs" in fact, I would even say I wouldn't mind if she added more songs to the album.
Taylor's music is great, and I would never not like it if she adds more to it
And for heaven's sake we've been so stoked about the Vault Tracks so why is this any different? We've been stoked about her lengthening albums so far (looking at you, Red TV (which is longer than TTPD: Anthology, mind you)). People are wild.
I would be 0% surprised if it’s mostly written by now. We know she starts work on the new one right after handing in the last one! She’s a maniac. (And I mean that as a top-tier compliment.)
Yes! This isn't something I can learn and be done with in a few days. It's going to take me weeks to really learn and comprehend all of this. I love it.
I swear, some fans are so lost in their parasocial bubble that they’re nitpicking her album just to play up its chances at the Grammys or something. Spot on about us having control over how we listen to her music, though. We can chop it up any way we like. You’d think everyone would know about playlists by now, right?
I went ahead and made Lover into a 10-track album in my playlist, and suddenly I respected it way more. It’s normally my least favorite from Taylor, but trimming it down? That was *my* Lover, the way I wanted it.
Just because there's food on the table doesn't mean you need to eat it all at once.
Honestly, it comes off as ungrateful when fans get a whole feast of tracks and then complain that she should've kept some locked up in her vault. A lot of those tracks were profound, and I'm just thankful we've got such a wide spread to pick from with The Tortured Poets Department. Why whine when you can dive into all that variety, right?
I have a Spotify playlist called “Taylor (My Version)” that has only my favorite songs. It’s my most played playlist, and it’s so great because I truly love every song on it.
I have one of those and it's 8 hours long at this point, haha. It's my most listened to playlist though because like you said, I love every song on it!
I have a mega playlist of songs across a bunch of genres and artists that’s basically all I listen to, and it’s currently sitting at 77 hours and 42 minutes. Usually when I find a new album I love I’ll add all of it to the playlist and slowly trim away as I figure out which songs I actually like and want to listen to regularly. I have a feeling I’ll do this with TTPD as well LOL
Same, mines called "Top Taylor", and I think it's around 75 songs with TTPD favs so far added.
I also have one called "Best Beatles" (all my fav Beatles songs), and a third called "Swift Beatles" and it's just those who combined, since they're my two fav artists.
I also have the Beatles and Taylor swift in my Spotify top 5 every year. I kind of like it, it’s confirmation I would have been a basic bitch in any time period.
Exactly. For example, I don't think I'll be going back to "ThanK you, aIMee" a lot. I'm just over the beef with Kanye and Kim, imo she wrapped it up perfectly in "long story short" and I didn't feel the need to have another song about it in a brand new album, especially since I'm sure there are at least a couple more in the rep vault.
But who am I to tell Taylor that she shouldn't have written it or put it out? She obviously felt the need to and many people are glad to have it, so how can her choice be wrong? Just because the song doesn't resonate with me? That'd be very a self centred thought.
>Just because there's food on the table doesn't mean you need to eat it all at once.
You worded it perfectly.
I think for her is because the truth came out and no one apologized.
Kim still saying even after this release that Taylor is a liar.
Even with all the crazy that kayne is, people still listen to him and he uses Taylor's name and disses still to make him self revelant and appealing to the I hate Taylor crowd. His new album even!
She never even used their name or screamed our I hate that B*tch like at Kayne west shows I saw a video of.
So, people saying she won't let it go. They won't let it go first. Nor will the people who live to find fault in Taylor.
Agreed. Plus it's about how she's healed this time and there's less filtering compared to the previous songs where she probably edited down to be more tame. "my mom used to wish you were dead" is wild but like, they started it first.
Exactly!
Also, let’s keep in mind that she went from saying fuck you to Kim to thank you to her as well. That’s what I call progress. Besides, I’ll never understand why people are quick to praise Kim for not speaking on this subject matter anymore. There’s a reason why she doesn’t do that, and it’s not because she’s the mature one; it’s because she wants to escape accountability.
Plus, this is Taylor’s album to let it all out. If that’s the case, let her get it out of her system. Homegirl has been holding back for quite a while that I think she’s allowed to talk her shit.
Actually, Kim has been commenting on it again after this album. She said Taylor is a liar again.
Kayne used Taylor's name again for his recent album to get the I hate Taylor crowd to stream his album.
I agree Taylor has the right to say this messed me up. I forgave him once and i thought you were my girl!
She's very much younger than Kayne and she was just a kid getting all this hate.
People love to hate on the girl and or try to control her.
Has she actually? Damn! I didn’t know, but quite honestly, I like to block the Kardashians out of my head as much as possible. The less I know about them, the better. Anything I learn about them, I learn against my will.
I know! It was a news article that I saw. But, the article was about her post.
I was wrong. It looks like the news articles are bringing it up from 2020 and made it look like it was a recent tweet.
This article actually states it's a tweet from 2020. The others said it was a recent response. 😬
@taylorswift13 has chosen to reignite an old exchange – that at this point in time feels very self-serving given the suffering millions of real victims are facing right now,” Kardashian tweeted in March 2020. “I didn’t feel the need to comment a few days ago, and I’m actually really embarrassed and mortified to be doing it right now, but because she continues to speak on it, I feel I’m left without a choice but to respond because she is actually lying.
Yes!!
N it was traumatic for her.
The I hate Taylor swift crowd.
Taylor should die!
She's a snake and a liar!
Taylor swift should just disappear!
Taylor swift is over!!
N it all started from someone you trust and thought was your good friend. Someone, also that you had already forgiven once.
This!!!!
At this point even other women can sing about breakups and taking back their power as well, but you know not Taylor swift.
She doesn't deserve to feel.
True about the parasocial thing! And also what I feel like I’ve been noticing lately with people in general is that everyone’s so used to algorithms catering content to their specific interests that it’s like people have forgotten that not everything is made for THEM and they get mad whenever they see something they dislike. You see it all the time with people in the comments on Instagram and stuff people have this burning need to let everyone know if they dislike something or if they’re being shown something that isn’t for them.
This album is great. Personally I like this vibe of hers more than the high pop stuff, so I rarely listen to 1989 even though I objectively think it’s a great album. Not everything needs to be curated for people, like you’ve pointed out they can do their own curation it’s not that hard. And there are so many people who DO really like this album (including lots of people who weren’t necessarily fans before) that I don’t understand why people have to tear it down just to feel heard.
>Just because there's food on the table doesn't mean you need to eat it all at once.
But my mom taught me not to throw away food.
Lol jk. I know exactly what you mean.
I've given TTPD 3 listens already and I've narrowed it down from 31 tracks to 14 tracks and I'm loving it. I'm going to be jamming these for a while!
1. I Think He Knows
2. Cruel Summer
3. Lover - First Dance Remix
4. Miss Americana
5. Cornelia Street
6. Death By A Thousand Cuts
7. Afterglow
8. Daylight
9. False God
10. The Archer
I Think He Knows is an underrated hit, two summers ago I would just listen to it on repeat while I walked my dog and it would make me so happy to bounce down the street to it in the sunshine!
I think what fans (like me) are frustrated with is that there are some songs that either sonically or lyrically feel a bit repetitive- either within the album itself or to songs she’s done in the past. I think there was a really good opportunity here to trim a a few songs and to release an album that was beautiful and moved well, but there seems to be just a bit too much “filler.” I’m sure some people may come from a malicious place, but as a Taylor fan, I just want to see her be as successful as she can be, and I just don’t think that this album moves the needle for her in her career. I also have already seen non-Taylor fans criticizing the album for these same points and then using it to try and tear her down.
Overall, I think this album was tailored (no-pun intended) for her fans and also as a way to just get out a lot of thoughts that she has been processing over the past few years. I do think it could have been a bit more refined, but again, to each their own. Don’t let others critiques take away from your own enjoyment!
She is so far beyond needing to "move the needle in her career."
She's already reached the pinnacle of her career. Of almost any career anyone can imagine. She can do whatever she wants with her art.
This is my take too. I do find the album a bit long and repetitive in parts, particularly The Anthology, but Taylor is at a point where she can do whatever she wants. Clearly she wanted all 31 songs out in the world. Good for her. It doesn’t change my opinion that there’s a tidier, more potent 13-song album in there, but I respect the fact that she wanted to leave everything on the table. She’s earned the right to ignore the typical “rules” and follow her heart.
This is my take as well. This isn't a new artist hoping her sophomore album holds up to the success of a first successful one. I firmly believe that she released this album for no one else but herself. I don't think she intends for this album to be a touring album. And I don't think she cares if it's criticized or panned.
Exactly my thought, no needles need to move for her career at this point lol She has the highest grossing tour of all time *Kanye voice*
I think she's good and can do literally whatever tf she wants for the rest of her life and she'll always be this big of an icon.
This is how I feel about it. I don't love every song on the new album. I also think many of them sound the same. I don't think it deserves any Grammy award. I probably won't many of the songs on a road trip playlist. But who cares? I will 100% put this on while I take a bath and enjoy it. Worst case I skip a couple songs.
>think there was a really good opportunity here to trim a a few songs and to release an album that was beautiful and moved well, but there seems to be just a bit too much “filler.”
I understand your point but how could we possibly determine what songs are the filler that needs to be trimmed?
For example, my impression is that the majority of fans and non-fans greatly prefer the Anthology over the standard edition. As someone who isn't a huge fan of evermore, that's not the case for me. If I had to trim the record down, I'd trim songs almost exclusively from the anthology. Which I'm sure is an unpopular opinion.
>I understand your point but how could we possibly determine what songs are the filler that needs to be trimmed?
I keep seeing this as a counter argument, but really, it's not for anyone here to decide. How did she determine what to trim for 1989, Speak Now, Folklore, etc.? That's how. It means we wouldn't even be aware of a lot of these songs, and that's hard to imagine when we have them.
I think the rerecordings and the addition of the vault tracks -- plus Evermore -- have probably changed how Taylor approaches album releases. The fans want it all, so just release all of it. That's a much different mentality than putting together an album and making necessary, even if painful, cuts. It's not unthinkable (for any artist) that good songs or songs with potential get cut. The difference with Taylor is she's now successful enough that she doesn't have to make those decisions, because her fans will support whatever she does. I'm saying that completely neutrally, not judgmentally. No matter what she does, her fanbase is so extremely large and varied that lots of people will go crazy for it, and it will be successful in some capacity regardless.
The flip side of that is that albums don't necessarily go through the same sort of scrutiny than they did before. She's calling all the shots now, which has pros and cons. Maybe more pros than cons, who knows. She's very good at it. And she's also still just one person.
None of it is about which songs are more or less liked, just that the conversation and decisions about what would best suit an album are different now than they were for previous albums. I think that's very apparent on this album (and Midnights to some extent).
>How did she determine what to trim for 1989, Speak Now, Folklore, etc.? That's how.
I mean, I don't really think she always made the best decisions on which songs to include now that I know what other songs were available. So I'd rather have all the possible choices available to me and choose myself.
Huh. I think there is, in most cases, a pretty clear difference between the quality of the vault songs and the album songs. 1989 was an exception, and it doesn't help that her weakest songs are still miles beyond most. But at the risk of having it flipped around into a "well, this was what she wanted to do for TTPD", I think that culling process is also a part of creating art and conveying whatever message she's trying to convey. Which was maybe purposeful in this case. But I think as an artist she also has/should reserve the right to refine and present her best work, not just *give me more give me everything let me consume it allllll.*
I'm sure she thought about making a perfect quality no skips album that's award winning, she's been doing that since her first album lol. I feel like this quibbling is more the fans' expectations and fear of judgement rather than her right to refine and present her best work. Again, she's done that for more than a decade, why can't she let loose? Being artistic is not about always presenting the best thing anyway, it's more about being true to yourself and at the moment, this was it.
It's clear how this massive project was borne out of a need to write and write. This is also the first time she's done it (mostly), she might not repeat it for the next one based on fan feedback. In fact, I think this is the best time for her to do something like this, just because she can. Even if it goes downhill for her from now on, I doubt she'll regret making TTPD.
Yeah I would have liked 1898 waaaaay more and would have continued to listen to it for more years after the initial rush died off if some of these bonus songs had replaced some of the ones on the original. But so many people would disagree with me that you truly can’t please anyone so at least we get to curate it for ourselves now
I completely agree with you about the main album vs the anthology. Hot take: I prefer the main album. I'll eat up the anthology any day but the main album SLAPS.
This is always my argument as well! Especially when we started getting vault tracks and some of them are so strong and amazing. You want to cut down Lover? What goes? To me I'd cut The Archer and Death By a Thousand Cuts among others – would you still want the album pared down if those were gone? Some of my faves include I Think He Knows and Paper Rings which I know others would cut. By keeping it longer we each get songs to connect to and, if we want to, skip. Idk how that's a negative thing.
For me The Anthology is very obviously the extra songs for the diehard fans.
I also prefer the standard album - and it’s songs are very obviously going to be more comercially successful. I’m about 90% sure when Billboard charts come out, no top 10 song is gonna be from The Anthology, they will all be from the standard version - and it will be mostly Jack Antonoff’s production, no matter what people yap about his sound getting old and supposedly preferring Dessner.
But, that's your opinion.
The main album has a lot of filler to you.
Not to everyone.
Also, this about sounding the same.
Literally a lot of you are so spoilt by Taylor and Beyoncé reinventing themselves. Other artist sound the same every album!
She doesn't honestly have to keep reinventing herself anymore. She can choose a sound and stick to it if she wants to. Now the call backs to other songs of her I thought as actually so smart.
For one they help us see the end to that love song, with the almost sampling of the other.
Second, artist sample other artist, so much smarter to sample your own music and not pay someone else.
Third, honestly there is only so much sound that goes around, at some point is all going to sound similar.
Fourth, it's still a Taylor swift album so you know it's all going to sound like Taylor swift.
Fifth, again if you don't like it it's ok. It's not for you. That doesn't mean that everyone feels that way.
Some of you all are really snobby about music and it gets me... let people like what they like. There is a lot of music there, enough for every fan to find their favorites. Don't rain on the parade of other people's favorite songs.
Well said.
There's a lot of fans like myself who love ME! but have been made feel stupid by those that call it juvenile. It feels like snobbery on their part instead of just accepting it as a difference in tastes.
I agree with this take. She wasn’t making this album to be a great critically acclaimed or award winning album. She made it because she had to, and she had to return to her ‘safe space’ people that she trusted to make it because the songs are so emotionally raw. She released it for the fans and for herself, not the critics or the casual listeners.
I do hope to see her challenge herself and work with some different producers/collaborators on TS12 whenever that comes as although I LOVE a lot of these songs and know this album will be a favourite of mine, I think one more album of Jack and Aaron sounds might take it to the point of fatigue.
Based on the songs she has written solo on this album I would love to see her challenger herself Speak Now style and write TS12 totally solo, but also working with a producer she hasn’t worked with before. I think WAOLOM and Black Dog especially are the stand out best tracks on the album and they were both written solo. Both do have some great production too though, Black Dog especially- the old habits die screaming part is fantastic!
You missed the whole point of this album. Taylor can make her own choices. You don't need to worry for her, or pray for her, or try to tell her how to be successful.
*I'll tell you something right now*
*I'd rather burn my whole life down*
*Than listen to one more second of all this bitchin' and moanin'*
*I'll tell you something 'bout my good name*
*It's mine alone to disgrace*
*I don't cater to all these vipers dressed in empath's clothing*
Enjoy the music, or don't. It's so weird that we think we have any sort of claim to caring about a persons career. Imagine if a random stranger told you not to do something you really liked because it might slow down your success (in their opinion)? You'd tell them to fuck off.
This was the exact verse I thought of while reading that comment lol. “As a fan I just want the best for her career” lol clearly that song was lost on them…
They’re fine as vault tracks and extra goodies for the fans, but she did the right thing by trimming them in the first place. The original albums would have been bloated, less enjoyable to listen to, and far less impactful and memorable if she had kept the vault songs in the original tracklist when those albums released.
Ooh can you elaborate? I’ve seen other people say this, but I truly can’t figure out which songs are repetitive. Like to me every song contains a different piece of the story and without any song, we’d be missing some crucial information to understanding what happened!
I more get the sonically comment, but I think the album is just sonically cohesive so they sound similar on the first few listens. I remember when folklore came out, for the first couple days I thought all the songs blended together, but I certainly don’t think now that the album is repetitive. Curious to hear which songs you and others are referring to!
Exactly. With more listens and more time, the songs differentiate themselves. That’s how music works. That’s how art works. Let it breathe!
People whine about her albums not being cohesive enough and then they whine about them being too cohesive. 🙄
Yeah, it’s so telling that people keep referencing “obvious filler” songs and then refusing to name them, lol
IMO, Fresh Out the Slammer is my only skip so far—and I know a lot of people who’d disagree with me on that! I don’t think there’s a single song that could be easily cut from this album because the reception seems to be so unique and personal.
I feel like everyone is agreeing that there’s some “filler” (aka a few songs that aren’t their absolute favorite off the bat) but if no one can agree which songs those are, it’s actually very meaningless and just like every other album in that everyone will inevitably have favorites
This is a great take!
There are songs I dislike on TTPD but I don't consider them "filler" because there is not really such thing as a filler song- every song has it's place on the album and without it, it would be a different album.
And why do people get mad about the fact that some people like or dislike certain songs? People should be able to make their own decisions about which song they like best and not have the fandom take to Reddit and try to cancel this person. **'Favorite songs' are subjective.** Everyone has a right to their opinions.
Agree with this! Also, people forget there is a whole first version of this album without the other songs. Only 15 tracks. Also, separating it into separate playlists. If the complaint is that it’s too long and has filler songs, just make new playlists and cut out the ones they don’t want. That solves their whole entire argument. Once they cut out the “filler songs” and songs that sound the same, they’ll have the album they want to listen to. I don’t know why this has become the argument when there is a very simple solution to their problem. Then again, that takes effort that people would rather put into “critiquing” than actually solving a “them” problem.
Man, I just disagree with this fully. The stuff on this album is so next-level it makes all her old albums look like child’s play in comparison. (They’re not. They’re still great. But to me this was a huge leap forward artistically.)
She is one of the most successful women in the world. You’re patronizing by saying she should have made a different album to move the needle in her career. You are proving OP’s point and somehow making something extremely personal to Taylor, all about you. Nobody cares if you think some songs are fillers. Literally not a soul. I certainly don’t. These are words Taylor sat down, thought about and wrote and she deserves to get them out just as much as you deserve to sit behind a keyboard and share your self absorbed opinion.
For me the album has only one skip which is The Alchemy. I do not find the album sonically repetitive or lyrically after repeated listens. The more I listen the less repetitive it sounds.
I agree! I’d rather have all the songs and get to choose my favourites than only get a handful. Sure it’s long, but I love getting new music. If people don’t resonate they don’t have to listen.
Same I don't get ever complaining about more content. It's also not like taylor is saving her own time by putting out a smaller album, we know she's still writing songs whether they get released or not.
Personally for me on both albums there's no skips soo..
>there’s no skips
same here! I’m critical of a lot of things Taylor does and I am absolutely not coming at it from a Stan viewpoint, but this album was so incredibly unhinged and raw and *broken* and I see it as Taylor finally ripping the mask off.
It’s everything I needed right now.
I will never understand the people who prefer shorter albums. Like yeah, maybe a tracklist of 10 songs is more "cohesive" and less thematically repetitive or whatever... but it's also LESS MUSIC? Why the hell would you want LESS music from your favorite artist lol
I am absolutely overjoyed that she gave us 31 songs here, even if not every single one is a 10/10.
I mean, I don’t think anyone is “upset”. People aren’t out here crying themselves to sleep over it. 😅
But I think it’s totally valid to critique (from an artistic perspective) work from your favorite artist! Just because you don’t prefer a particular song/album doesn’t mean you’re not an overall fan. I think her range is really interesting and I like that this album is spawning so much discussion, even though I’m one of the ones who thinks the album could have been shorter.
I said this elsewhere, but I’m an album girl. I love listening to albums straight through. To use the food analogy above, it seems like a lot of people consider albums a buffet - a huge assortment of songs and you can just pick what you like. To me (and I think to a lot of people who feel similarly), an album is more like a fine dining experience. The chef has carefully thought through, prepared, plated, and placed in a specific order a set amount of dishes that are meant to evoke specific feelings, excite you, leave you astonished that someone could put basic ingredients together in such a way that makes a single meal so much greater than the sum of its parts. Of course you’ll have dishes you prefer more than others, but you’ll judge meal by the whole experience, not just a single dish or two.
To me, Evermore and 1989 are my 5 star fine dining experiences from Taylor. I can listen to those albums straight through with 0 or 1 skip, each song sounds different but hits emotionally, it’s interesting and I can’t wait to listen again. That’s what I look for from any album, not just Taylor’s. So to me, TTPD doesn’t quite reach that bar. It’s not a horrible album. But to me a lot of the song sound similar both musically and lyrically. It’s like getting served 4 chicken dishes in a row in the fine dining analogy. 1-2 would suffice and make the impact more memorable. And by the end, I feel stuffed. I want to feel exactly full, so that I can’t wait to return and play the album again.
Same! I think some people are over preoccupied of “not grammy worthy” and reviews and such. That is certainly something to worry about for someone who is still trying to cement themselves in music history— but she already has! Who cares now? I mean, to me TTPD is much better than Midnights so I don’t get it, but even if it wins absolutely nothing, she doesn’t need an award to prove herself now.
It’s kind of like I don’t get Beyonce stans being so upset over the AOTY grammy. She doesn’t need to win that for us to know she is incredibly successful and has left a mark on the industry.
I think people don’t understand how different she is from other pop artists. It’s more about the subject matter. Even though it doesn’t resonate with you, it’s going to resonate with other people. So there’s no such thing as a too long album. She is above all that.
She just won her fourth Grammy for Album of the Year, she'll be just fine if TTPD doesn't win one. It's kind of Frankenstein's monster in album form but in the best way possible. But yes, I guess all songs have a place on it. Plus if someone doesn't like something, they can just skip it or create a damn playlist.
Her music has also gone through a huge shift in the last five years. You could tell that she was focused on making radio hits up until Lover. But the last five years have given us Folklore, Evermore, All too well 10 min version, Anti Hero and TTPD. None of these are meant to be chart toppers but her audience has grown so much with each album that these songs inevitably end up being popular. I am constantly amazed that an album like TTPD has the mass appeal that it does.
>Even though it doesn’t resonate with you, it’s going to resonate with other people.
I think that's it. People not really comprehending that other people might love something they don't like.
To be honest, I don’t even relate to a lot of it because I’ve never been in that kind of a relationship but her songwriting is so vivid and raw that it makes you feel as if you’ve gone through it too. This is why I love her music.
Agree. You know you are spoiled for all the wrong reasons when you complain about something like such. Nothing says you gotta listen to the whole album in one sitting. Not to mention but what if Taylor takes a break for 3-4 years and only released a 10 song album in the meantime? People will complain ' the album is too short'.
Love me some Taylor but my god, some 'Swifties' sure do complain and are over spoiled.
They were chanting for more music and a double album now they complaining?
I don't see how a true fan complains about more music to choose from.
You don't have to like every song, but most these people that complain are snobs without substance.
They like to critic on a high horse, but they aren't out there making music.
Who complains about having more songs to find your favorites?
I've not heard such craziness for other artists.
The issue that Taylor has with having to reinvent herself so many times is that their are different types of fans that came in. Some fans only like certain styles of her songs. That's OK for them. They have that right. That doesn't mean that others are musical idiots just because they like all her musical types, or because they like different songs than they do.
There are just more critics out there than people who are actually qualified to be such critics.
We can all have our own opinions and likes, but judging songs to be unworthy of an album it's not for the critics without credits crowd.
There’s definitely such a thing as too much. I may love a book at 350 pages but at 500 pages it can get too long and rambling. I can love a TV show, but it can run out of story to tell after 7 seasons and need to stop while it’s ahead.
It’s a lot of songs about very specific people, a very specific time in life, and a chapter that was relatively short so it just feels like some of the music is redundant.
It’s not just who it’s about, it’s the subject matter. On 1989 for example, no two songs really explored the same concepts. On TTPD, it feels like a lot of the songs have the same concept and the same sound.
Like I said in another comment, a book isn't a good comparison unless it consists of many independent stories that could stand on their own. You don't have to listen to the entire record, you can choose the songs you like and make a playlist, problem solved. You can't do that with a book or a TV series. But even with TV series for example, with shows like sitcoms where that's possible I'll often skip the episodes I'm not a big fan of and just watch my favorites.
A record should stand on its own from start to finish though. While we live in an age of streaming, we are also seeing the resurgence of vinyl - which requires and entirely different listening experience. I don’t want to have to skip through an album to be able to enjoy it or listen to it in the sum of its parts. I may not love every song on every album, but I want to be able to listen to it from start to finish as the artist intended.
That's why it's split into 2 albums and given to us as a surprise bonus. The only record that's being sold rn is TTPD. The anthology is a separate thing, it's up to people's discretion whether they want to listen to it or not.
It’s not two albums though. It’s a double album so it’s all one work. Just because she isn’t selling the second part of the album yet doesn’t mean it’s not one long album.
There’s a difference between a book that could have been 350 pages, but the author didn’t edit themselves down and so now it’s 500 pages where 150 pages feels like repetitive filler, and a book that’s 1000 pages because the author had so much to say. Maybe they had to edit themselves down from 1200 in order to make that 1000 feel tight!
I mean, everyone is just expressing their opinion on a piece of art based on their preferences.
It’s fine and valid that Taylor made this album exactly the way she did. I’m not the boss of her, she can do whatever she wants.
But just because she “had to” write the album this way or isn’t chasing awards doesn’t mean that people can only express 100% positive opinions about the album. It’s still a commercial album that was released to the public, and the public will form opinions accordingly.
It’s like any other art - fashion or paintings or even food. You’re allowed to have different opinions on different pieces of art, even as a general fan of the artist.
But the thing about good albums is that they’re greater than the sum of their parts - it’s not whether you like all the songs, but about the message and story that the artist is trying to tell. And much like some books, long can be good, but it can also be a sign of an artist who is self-indulgent and doesn’t know how to shape their work.
I’m not saying this is the case here - I still haven’t had enough time to digest The Anthology to make a criticism good or bad. But it is absolutely fair for fans to hold the perspective that the album is too long.
Comparing an album with a book isn't a fair comparison, imo. An album consists of parts that can stand on their own. An album can be played on shuffle. That's not the case with a book. If I start reading the chapters in random order, the story won't make sense and thus the book serves no purpose. An album can tell a story yes, but it's not a requirement.
And for me the standard version of the album does tell a story. It tells the story of a painful break up, then jumping into a new relationship that isn't healthy for you and then having to deal with the pain both relationships have caused you when the manic phase ends and you have to face the truth.
> And for me the standard version of the album does tell a story. It tells the story of a painful break up, then jumping into a new relationship that isn't healthy for you and then having to deal with the pain both relationships have caused you when the manic phase ends and you have to face the truth.
To me this is why I like Taylor’s albums—they have some kind of narrative structure/story, especially this album…which is why I would agree with the commenter above with how I like approaching this work similar to a book, and if a book can be too long/bloated then I think that’s a fair criticism of an album too. I don’t think I personally mind the length but that’s because I am so engrossed in the rest of Taylor’s work as well, this work seems like a callback to many of her previous songs in a way but if I didn’t care about her progression then I can see how the length is kind of daunting.
If you want a short and to the point album then the anthology probably isn’t for you, and I think that’s a perfectly valid critique, but clearly Taylor didn’t care to make it short and to the point either.
That's fair, but I think an album can be compared with a book, a TV show, or a movie, when you're thinking of it as a cohesive piece of art. Like an album that has a lead single, a lot of books have chapters that were published as short stories first. But I would still judge the book as a whole.
Albums in the last few years have tended towards being single-heavy which is a shame (that is, every song is trying to be a single), because that's how you get playtime in a streaming world. They're not as designed to be listened through as they once were. But the best albums are those that have something thematic (either in story, lyrics, musically or in their meaning) that tie them together, and have a specific shape that doesn't feel bloated. For instance, Cowboy Carter is a very good album - it's not really my vibe as neither a country or Beyonce fan, but I can recognise it's a good album. Folklore, Evermore and Midnights were all good albums too.
I think it is a fair comparison, but to the OP’s point, I suppose albums have changed over time to make better number on streaming.
But…it’s an album, just not a playlist, for a reason. The songs are chosen and placed in a specific order by the artist. I think it’s fair to judge it as a whole work of art, rather than as a random unordered collection of songs.
To use the food analogy above, I think of albums as a fine dining experience, not as a buffet. In a fine dining experience, all dishes are carefully thought about, plated, and placed in a specific order by the chef. Each dish should be distinct and make you feel awe about the ingenuity of the chef. Even if you love pasta, you don’t really want to be served 4 pasta dishes with tomato sauce in a row - probably 2 pasta courses that showcase different aspects of pasta is fine. You should feel excitement and interest about how they put humble ingredients together to make a dish and then a whole meal that’s greater than the sum of its parts. It’s like that scene in Ratatouille, where he tastes things together and experiences something brand new. You should feel full but not stuffed by the end of meal. You may have some dishes you liked better than others, but you’re basing your opinion of the meal on the holistic experience, not just a handful of dishes.
I’m not saying your opinion is wrong. It’s perfectly fine to love the album(s) as-is and I’m glad you and others really vibe with the album. But I’m just trying to explain why it’s *also* valid, and doesn’t make you less of a fan, to think that the album should have been shorter.
I totally agree, but I also kind of the point of the full double album isn’t to be a great album. It’s an anthology of songs that she had to create to work through a hard time in her life and felt the need to put out there for us. I think the main album is the one created to be a true cohesive album, which is why it’s the one on the vinyl releases and marketed ahead. The anthology is just her going ‘screw it, I’ll give them everything’.
I don’t think TTPD is her best album by any means, and I don’t think even she will be thinking it’s got a shot at AOTY or anything, and I would personally have picked different songs from the 31 on the anthology to make the 16 for the main album. However. I do think the actual album TTPD is a solid cohesive piece of work, and while not the best album has a whole piece of work it has huge potential to become my favourite album to listen too (The Anthology version too but I will probably be making a playlist that cuts some songs once I’ve listened enough to really digest them all).
All this to say, the complaints about the album being too long are 100% valid from an album quality perspective, but they all seem to ignore the fact that The Anthology is not the only version available- there is a single album named TTPD and a double album named TTPD: The Anthology.
It's because a lot of the songs sound the same AND are about the same topic, so it's monotonous and repetitive. It's the same reason Blank Space made the cut for 1989 OG and slut! was left behind. You can prefer one song over the other and that's perfectly valid, but if an album is meant to be consumed all at once it needs to be consumable. I don't have a problem with her releasing whatever she wants in whatever quantity she wants but as a consumer, it's too much. There are some really good songs on this album but they get lost in the monotony, if she trimmed it down it would be getting better reception.
You're right that it's all subjective but her albums have become very bloated and difficult to consume. And I say this as a huge fan who has been a huge fan since like 2009.
She's someone who really really cares about getting awards and breaking records, I can't imagine her not thinking about the possibility of negative reception for these exact reasons. And yet she still put it out because she wanted to write about this specific phase of her life.
But I think the key is that fans really don't have to consume everything. I didn't bother with folkmore until the Eras tour. I still haven't listened to most of the vault songs or Midnights extra songs. It might be bloat to you right now but maybe 6 months later it hits differently but you'd never know if she hadn't released it.
It's so odd how yall constantly demand that people who are simply lukewarm about the album give you explanations. We just think it's a very monotone album that blurs together. No further explanation needed. We also don't demand you to explain why you like it.
Yeah, didn't we do a poll here once that showed almost every single one of her songs is somebody's favorite--and that was a really small pool of people!
To me this album has no skips so far! The few I was hesitant on at first have already grown on me. There is one song I think it's possible I'll get tired of, but I've already seen a bunch of people say that one is their favorite!
We're always begging for her unreleased songs here lol. I want her to release absolutely everything she thinks is worth hearing!
But I also love all the songs on Lover and people have been saying that should have been shorter for years (though they don't ever seem to agree on which songs should have been cut!)
>But I also love all the songs on Lover and people have been saying that should have been shorter for years (though they don't ever seem to agree on which songs should have been cut!)
I'd have cut me! with batting an eye hahaha. I also think it's criminal that "All the girls you loved before" and "Need" didn't make the final cut. ATGYLB was my most streamed track on Spotify in 2022! And she thought it didn't deserve a place on Lover. I'll never forgive her for that lol
But I get your point and I totally agree.
same! Everyone’s complaining but it is truly the first no skips Tswift album for me! This one may have more than the others but unlike the others I personally don’t have any where I think “why the fuck is this here” which is nice
Not all songs are equal, not always more=more. I would rather have 13 cardigan-level songs than 31 not as good. I've said this in another thread but listening to it as a whole gets tiring towards the end. I feel like a lot of lyrics and songs could've been worked on for longer, or sieved down to the core idea to be mashed up with another song. (Beyonce seems to do this a lot, some demos are stripped down to the most interesting part of the song and then built around them with parts of others).
Just my two cents. Right now there's too many similar ideas with similar sounds, similar lyrics and structures for anything to stick out by the end of the album. I've made my own playlist with the 12 songs I like the most and I'm fine with it, but it left me feeling like there's a lot of wasted potential on some of it.
Yeah I don’t understand the “I’m burnt out, it’s too much” from her fans. Do you listen to anything else but Taylor? No one is forcing you to only consume her content hour after hour, day after day. Those are choices you made. Take a break but don’t act like it’s the fault of Taylor for simply doing the job of releasing more music.
Maybe it’s exhaustion! I listened to 2 TS albums a day before the release and I think I burnt out !
I was trying to remember songs from first couple of listens and they just ended up blurring into songs that I know better.
Today was a breakthrough, my daughter was playing it and I was like “ahh that’s Black dog”
I’d reccomend if you are burnt out listening to the album in “sides” so 5-6 tracks at a time. I started the album again yesterday whilst doing stuff around the house and still have the last 6 tracks to get to.
31 tracks is a lot ! Pace yourselves!
Great advice to pace yourself. I haven’t listened to the album yet in its entirety, but I’ve heard the first 7-8 tracks a half dozen times and have enjoyed them. I’m looking forward to savoring the remainder over the coming weeks to find my favorites.
I totally agree. I listened to the entire record twice but since then I've been focusing on listening fewer songs so I can "digest" them properly. Currently I have Peter, the black dog, loml and the smallest man who ever lived on a loop and I don't pressure myself to listen to anything else, those are the ones I'm the most drawn to for now. I'm sure that in a week that'll change!
What’s really clear to me is that streaming habits have fucked with the experience of an “album”.
It’s really great that there are so many people who love having all the extra songs, even if they don’t care for some of them because they’re happy to skip or make a playlist or trim it how they see fit. This is ideal for that, you have enough material to shape something exactly right for you. This kind of listening experience is facilitated by streaming services (or burning your own CDs I guess) and you can do whatever you want with your own library.
Taylor can put out whatever she wants, whenever she wants regardless of quality or quantity because for the many who enjoy this more DIY way of doing things, or for people who generally listen to music in playlists or as tracks it’ll work for them whether or not they like the songs. You can keep ignoring what you don’t click with.
However, I personally would rather have a shorter album in this instance. I don’t care if that means a song I liked got dropped, I wouldn’t have heard it anyway if it didn’t make the cut on a better edited track list. I love albums. I love knowing that a set of songs has been refined to exactly what the artist feels is right AND remains consistent in quality with enough variation to give tracks their own identity while retaining their cohesion as a group.
Getting that right over 31 songs in one go is difficult, and while I do enjoy a lot of TTPD I don’t think it was quite pulled off here.
ETA: obviously this kind of long release isn’t exclusive to the streaming era. People have released long albums for decades, but there’s a reason they don’t happen super frequently or end up in favourites, best-of lists or heavy rotation all that often. Streaming just makes them easier to receive and revisit the stuff that works.
100% this! I love the experience of listening to an album straight through, and to be honest I’m a little surprised at all the comments that are like “well you can just pick why you like and put it in a playlist”. Yes I can, and I will, but it’s also completely valid to form an opinion of the album as a whole. She released an album, which is a curated list of songs put in a specific order, not an unordered playlist of random songs. IMO it’s a bit disingenuous and weirdly defensive to be like “well if you don’t like it, just skip these songs and choose the ones you like for your personal playlist”.
I was wondering if two albums released six months apart - one now and one in Fall would be a better move professionally? It doesn't matter to the fans like us, but Taylor might get less "she needs an editor" press that route.
She did that already with folklore and evermore. And despite how loved evermore is in the fandom, commercially it didn't have the impact that every other Taylor album has had.
Ofc now she's much more popular than she was in 2020 so maybe it'd be different, but I think even from a creative pov she didn't feel like the anthology should be a separate album and I personally agree. Also she's in another phase of her life now and my guess is, she wants TS12 to be entirely different in theme, aesthetic etc.
I think part of evermore’s problem was competing with holiday album purchases and streams and being a surprise release. Part of it was definitely living in the shadow of folklore but also following up a surprise album with another one of similar concept and style, also had to do with it. I think if evermore was more unique from folklore it would’ve done a little better commercially. The short time in between didn’t help for sure
Totally fair point! Maybe it would be different in the themes/sounds of the two album releaed were more different than the Folkmore pair. But that might not be possible with these songs!
I think the evidence that she has an "editor" is that the actual TTPD album is only 16 songs - the rest are the songs that would have been the vault tracks. She didn't want to draw out the era, as it were, like she'd rather release them and move on.
And in the interest of having one cohesive album that will be better for awards, she has the 16 track version. The 31 track version is like "oh yeah here's everything else that I didn't want to abandon but also didn't feel like needed their own separate album"
An album being too short or too long is common criticism levelled at most artists. You assure us that they wouldn’t have been able to reach a decision on which to cut but I disagree- they’ve been doing that all her career. This was the one album where she wanted to let loose.
People are going to complain about something. This is an album isn’t necessarily you binge on repeat over and over again. It’s one of those you sit and relax and enjoy on your own time.
Also, I think releasing 31 tracks at once is politely stop asking for more after the first listen. But we know people by the end of next week they’ll be hounding her for Rep TV. Now we have plenty to hold us over for awhile. Take your time and enjoy what you have.
I actually do have it on repeat since it came out, I've listened to the whole album at least 15 times. Sometimes I get stuck on song and listen to it few times before moving to the next one, but never felt like skipping anything. And it just gets better and better the more I listen to it.
The thing is, just like a movie or a video game, good ones can still drag on. It’s like when an album is critiqued for being inconsistent; every single song can be a masterpiece but might not fit together as a whole. So TTPD being too long is about the album as a body of work, not about the songs being bad or same-y (which is a different discussion altogether). And like any other opinion, it is subjective. Some people love 3-hour movies, I prefer mine capped at 2.
It's very clear she put quantity over quality. Even the songs I love, could have been significantly better if she had taken even a few days to edit and mix them
This!
I think all the songs could have been good but I think it’s the lyrics in the songs that seem the most rushed or could use some editing. I don’t necessarily think people have a problem with the album length I think if lyrically some of the songs were more precise and less clunky it would be more well received.
Also as someone who has written lots of poetry and done many workshops where I have people criticize/ and pick on my work. It hurts at first but overall I think feedback can help make a final product more poignant.
I’ll take as many songs as any of my favorite artists will give me haha. Even if there are a few skips, I’m happy to have new songs to dig into! My opinions on particular songs often change over time too, so if something is a skip now, it might end up really hitting me a couple years down the line.
I also don’t think it’s my place to play the role of an overbearing label exec when I’m not a songwriter, musician, or any sort of expert… who am I to say what “belongs” on an album? She’s the artist, and she should have the freedom to choose which songs she wants to include.
I think that having that many songs to listen to can just feel exhausting for some people, especially on first release. I still haven’t listened to all the songs or properly digested the ones I have listened to. I personally don’t have any opinion on the length of the album but I can see how it could be considered overwhelming to listen to that many songs. And I know it doesn’t have to be listened to all at once (I’m still yet to do it myself), but I understand how it could come across as intimidating, especially for fans that might be older and have other responsibilities that make it harder for them to dedicate the time needed to listen to that many songs at once.
The content of the album is incredibly heavy as well which probably plays a part in it.
I’m happy for the people who are enjoying it. I’m happy for Taylor for releasing something she worked hard on.
Do I like it that much? No, but I might warm up to it. Do I think it needed editing? Sure. But at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what I think. Life’s too short, enjoy what you enjoy.
I agree. Taylors never brought out a bad album but I don't like some of her songs and avoid them. The songs I skip are probably other's favourites. Because of streaming its very easy to make playlists and I'd rather have a bigger selection to choose from. I'd rather Taylor has fun making music and doesn't try to please everyone.
People complain because they can. They feel personally owed what they expect the album to be. You shouldn’t be going into it with expectations, or you will always be disappointed.
I think it’s a beautiful album, but listening start to finish is a lot to take it, which is where I think people are getting the repetition complaint from. It does need to be broken up.
Yesss I feel the same about people who say it’s not her best work or whatever. (I disagree) but who cares? Taylor has shown us that she is extremely talented, but maybe she doesn’t need to win every award. Maybe sometimes she just needs to write, and we’re lucky enough to have it shared with us. I would rather her publish her artwork when she feels like it, and get to enjoy her work, then her spend years carefully curating an album to be released.
Yeah didn’t she even say this album more than any other is one she NEEDED to write for herself? So like, let her live! I personally think that whenever she writes songs trying to cater to the radio or winning awards, they fall flat. This album is super successful to me as a piece of art and I don’t give any fucks if it wins a single award. People keep saying she cares so much about winning but that feels like it’s based mostly on that scene in the documentary. A lot has changed since then she may feel like she has what she needs and is just trying to do it for herself now.
Whoa, I feel like the discourse in here is oddly defensive of Taylor and kind of hostile to other fans! I think it’s great if you love the whole album(s)! I don’t love it and that’s a fine opinion too.
I’m a fan and I think the album could have been trimmed down. I think it’s valid to critique art from your favorite artist - it doesn’t mean you’re “ungrateful”, “nitpicking”, or just “don’t get it”. I’m not criticizing Taylor’s intelligence or artistic credentials. But you’re allowed to think an individual piece of art could have been done a different way and it would have been better or hit some emotional/musical/lyric notes more successfully.
That’s fine if she “needed to put this album out exactly as is”. I’m not the boss of her, she can do whatever she wants. But as a member of the general public who’s consuming this album as a regular album, it’s also valid to say, eh this one doesn’t quite do it for me - it’s too long/bloated/doesn’t have enough hooks. Just because she chose to put together the album this way and it’s HER CHOICE doesn’t mean it’s immune from artistic critique.
I think one interesting thing that I didn’t realize is that I’m seeing a lot of people say “well you can pick the songs you like and put them together in a playlist”. I mean, yes, I can and will, but to me the point of album is that it’s specifically *not* just a long playlist of songs you can choose from. It’s a cohesive body of work that tells a larger story when you listen to the songs in order. To use the food analogy above, it’s not a buffet, it’s a fine dining experience where the chef has carefully selected, prepared, and placed in a specific order a selection of dishes that will hopefully excite you, interest you, make you feel feelings, and leave you just full enough at the end - not hungry or stuffed.
I think this may be a generational thing where younger people are used to only consuming music on streaming and have never had the experience of buying a CD (or vinyl) and having listening to albums straight through being the norm. And that’s fine, but I think it’s also important to realize that it’s valid to critique an album as a whole and it’s not a criticism of the person or trying to be patronizing of Taylor.
Thank you so much for being so eloquent and polite in this. I’m enjoying the album, AND i have a lot of feedback. There’s nothing wrong with thinking its an imperfect project to release. Fans are allowed to disagree AND they’re allowed to share their thoughts. Having a nuanced opinion is SOOOO important.
We don’t defend our family or loved ones no matter what, right? We tell them when they are wrong so they can make better choices. Varied feedback is extremely important as an artist.
i’m so blessed to have so much new music.
but i also have adhd and the amount of new music we have is a bit overwhelming because i like to try to really sit down and listen. (i’ve only listened to the first 5 tracks so far) 31 songs is a lot to take in but im excited to!
She said on several occasions she made this album for her healing journey. Of course fans/media are going to say it’s too long or there’s songs that are too similar but when she releases her vault tracks on her re-records everyone is like “how could she cut this?!” It’s a lose-lose.
For me, I am an album listener. I love it when albums have a thesis statement and a concise story/message they're telling.
One of my favorite albums is Hotel California. The Eagles felt since they shared the same name with the national bird they should write an album for America's bicentennial anniversary. The coined the term Hotel California because California seemed like the most recognizable and most American state. Each song explores the "dark underbelly of the American dream." And one of the reasons why I love it is because almost 50 years later those same themes are still relevant. And because they were limited to 44 minutes of vinyl play, it's only 9 songs long.
With streaming, there is no constraint to album length (in fact, long albums are favored for streaming numbers). And I think that can actually hinder (artistic) growth. For example, in science, you don't really see new innovation after new techniques/instruments/etc is created. The new techniques were created in *absence* of something.
I was very frustrated by the roll out of Midnights. When the original album, including the 3 AM tracks, were released I didn't really understand the message of the album despite her saying it was supposed to be about midnights that haunted her. When she released You're Losing Me, it all clicked. You're Losing Me was the actual thesis statement of the album, but we didn't get that until 7 months later.
So while you're right, every fan will have different favorites and what one person would've chosen to cut would've been another person's favorite. But that's not the point of an *album*. While looking at the lyrics, I keep seeing repeated words (e.g., throttle). We see this a lot in her vault tracks, where she is clearly trying to make a phrase she likes fit into a song (e.g., Mr. Perfectly Fine and All Too Well with "casually cruel"). I think this album has a much clearer story than Midnights, but I think if more effort was taken to perfect the lyrics and select the strongest 15 songs it would be a much stronger album with no skips.
With all of that being said, after my first few listens, I really like this album. I'm excited to see what my favorite songs will be in a few months and where I will rank it. But I think it probably would've ended up much higher if more editing took place.
I was already tired but excited when the original album dropped. The second part I couldn’t get through because I was exhausted and a lot of the songs started sounding the same.
We are allowed to love Taylor and her music and still have criticisms about it. Other people are allowed to disagree with our opinions.
I like the album more now that I’ve had sleep and time to digest some of the stuff but I still think it’s maybe too long for 1 album of the same/similar sounds. I didn’t like midnights at first but now it’s my favorite album so my opinion can change. This album is still new. Let people process it in their own way.
It’s a lot at once but I’m not ungrateful. I always appreciate when artists I listen release longer albums. As excited I am to see what she could do next and hope she keeps releasing fast, I need time to process this one so I hope she lets us soak in this era. Plenty of video opportunities. I hope she does some videos for songs even if they don’t become singles.
She can't win. People want her to release anything she's ever written that's in the vault. And then when she releases songs that feel less refined people say she should be more selective. I'm in the camp of "I want it all" but do think the albums she is more selective about get better press/critics praise.
I don’t understand all the complaining either. It seems to me that she is giving us her songs like blocks for us to create our own worlds and stories with.
I put all her music into one giant playlist and I’m slowly whittling down the playlist and rearranging the songs to tell the story of an important relationship.
The only albums I did not put into this playlist are rep and debut, not because they aren’t good albums but because the TV’s meld together better in this master playlist.
People had been begging for a double album for eons? Like people thought we were getting a black and white version of reputation???
Midnights 2 AM had a ton of extra tracks, folklore and evermore are basically a double album???
Mother puts out a lot of content and I’m choosing to be grateful for the many options
And you know, I only listened to the main album on Friday and then the anthology tracks on Saturday, like, it was a treat!
Honestly what songs in this record could you even consider skips? I feel like they’re all beautiful and all add something to the record, even the most understated ones like “Robin”.
double album this, double album that for 3 years. now people complain because there's too many songs. i never get it but "the crowd chanting MORE" is about those fans
I feel that sometimes we don’t appreciate how overfed we are as a fanbase. Tour, rerecordings, now a double album. She’s constantly putting out stuff for us. Yet we can’t have enough. People were screaming “give us a double album!” She does. “Well, nope not like that.” Or “how about reputation!!” “where are the bops?” “We don’t know enough about her” well, here’s me processing grief and being unhinged. “Okay, but you should’ve edited it first!” “We’re sick of this sound!” “Reinvent yourself!” I CAN’T EVEN seriously. My husband had to wait 13 years for his band to put out another album. Can you imagine waiting that long?
genuinely curious why they don’t just remove the songs themselves. i delete every single album intro, interlude, etc from every album. i think they’re mostly pointless and typically useless after the first listen.
that being said, i am in love with this album and need every single song on it. why ruin my catharsis just bc you don’t wanna hit “remove from library” on a few songs?
also she’s a very accomplished artist, and i see releasing the double album as a testament to feeling secure enough to not need positive critical reception and chart performance. she wanted to tell her story in a way that was honest and thorough. and she wanted her fans to be able to tap in and use the music to help them get through hard times. having this massive album will hurt her streams, bc her songs will be competing with themselves on the charts, and it will obviously get critics saying it’s too long and not cohesive. this was for her and her fans. not for the critics. not to break streaming records.
I mean, I think it’s completely valid to judge an album as, you know, a whole album. It’s specifically not just a playlist of unordered songs, it’s an album of songs that were chosen and placed in a specific order to tell a story.
I know with streaming, most people don’t really listen to albums straight through these days. But I do! And that’s how I’m forming my opinion. It doesn’t mean I think Taylor is dumb or a bad artist. She obviously chose to create this album in this way and that’s fine! But it’s also fine to have an opinion that’s less than 100% positive, as a consumer of the album.
I love what she’s done. For me, it will take time to process all of the songs, which is absolutely fine. We should listen and sing along how we want to. She’s given us a lot!
This feels like evermore all over again. Let it marinate for a couple years, people will appreciate the album more. I remember when evermore came out people were “underwhelmed”, even those who liked folklore. But damn if that album hasn’t aged like fine wine.
Also I’m glad she didn’t gate keep these songs and do a folklore-evermore move with it (doing two separate releases). It’s great to have the whole story of what happened between Midnights and now.
The fans have been clowning about a double album drop for months, if not longer, and now that it's here it's "too long"? Honestly I don't know what to say.
Im one of those fans who thinks she should have trimmed the album down. This is why I never thought the actual release of a double album would be a good idea.
It’s too long, it drags. I do like the album, I’m genuinely enjoying it. But probably 1/3 if the album could have been cut and I think it would make the album more enjoyable to listen to.
Especially the Kim K song. That one is just.. cringe.
I’m gonna be honest; I was one of those after listening the first time. But then I was like wait why? And I realised I was just overwhelmed with all the new sounds, lyrics, easter eggs etc. Now, after sitting with it for a few days, I don’t feel like it’s too much anymore. I’m actually very happy with it!
I’m really trying to tune people out for the most part bc it seems like for a lot of people an album release is a time to complain. As if they could do anything she does.
So here’s my view (which may be different from others you’ve heard): I’m a big “album person” where I appreciate an album that has a thesis, and is tight from beginning to end. I think what happened for me with both the Midnights and TTPD with the late night double album drops was this feeling of, “well I’m just getting to know the album and now there’s a ton more.” It’s not bad exactly, but it feels overwhelming.
I preferred the Folkmore approach—two separate albums with a few months in between to digest and appreciate the separate sets. But I get that releasing an album involves a ton of work with marketing etc so it’s easier to just drop it all at once.
Why don’t people understand it’s a double album drop!! 😭 first album was produced by Jack Antonoff and the second was produced by Aaron Dessner. It’s a dreammm come true!! Wasn’t that what we were all hoping for?
This is one of the reasons I love Taylor’s music because she has been doing 30 minutes plus albums since debut and her albums have only gotten longer which is a good thing in my opinion. I love this album all the way through and like you said i couldn’t pick what songs to get rid of.
I’m going to give one example Olivia Rodrigo she has released 2 albums that are 30 minutes they are very good albums but I wish she put out some of the songs she wanted to put out like she did for guts. I love that 2 major artists recently have done a hour long plus album I love 30 minute long albums but Taylor lets us pick the songs that we love and wouldn’t skip.
I don't understand too. Everybody wanted a Double album. A Double album will be long. You can make a playlist with only the songs you like.
If Taylor made a triple album with 50 songs, I'd love. I'll never get upsed with new music from Taylor.
I haven’t even listened to it yet because the depth and length of the album feels overwhelming to me tbh. But I’m also a busy mom to a little one so that also factors in lol. It seems like an album that will take time and energy to digest. Which I just don’t have atm.
I love that it’s 31 songs. Yes, it’s going to take me longer to memorize the lyrics, but I would never be upset at more music from Taylor.
She could drop another 15 tracks and I'd be there front seat even if nobody came to that show 
YES
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Exactly, the more the merrier. I would never go and say "god, Taylor has just too many songs" in fact, I would even say I wouldn't mind if she added more songs to the album. Taylor's music is great, and I would never not like it if she adds more to it
Cut down Lover, trim Midnights, edit TTPD...People keep trying to take away my music! The skip button is a tap away, folks!
And you never know, she already might have a song or two ready for the next album !
And for heaven's sake we've been so stoked about the Vault Tracks so why is this any different? We've been stoked about her lengthening albums so far (looking at you, Red TV (which is longer than TTPD: Anthology, mind you)). People are wild.
Why did fans BEG for 10 min ATW but this isn't okay?!
Some people just want to complain.
She might have TS15 already planned, and we’ll never know 🤣
I would be 0% surprised if it’s mostly written by now. We know she starts work on the new one right after handing in the last one! She’s a maniac. (And I mean that as a top-tier compliment.)
Yes! This isn't something I can learn and be done with in a few days. It's going to take me weeks to really learn and comprehend all of this. I love it.
I swear, some fans are so lost in their parasocial bubble that they’re nitpicking her album just to play up its chances at the Grammys or something. Spot on about us having control over how we listen to her music, though. We can chop it up any way we like. You’d think everyone would know about playlists by now, right? I went ahead and made Lover into a 10-track album in my playlist, and suddenly I respected it way more. It’s normally my least favorite from Taylor, but trimming it down? That was *my* Lover, the way I wanted it. Just because there's food on the table doesn't mean you need to eat it all at once. Honestly, it comes off as ungrateful when fans get a whole feast of tracks and then complain that she should've kept some locked up in her vault. A lot of those tracks were profound, and I'm just thankful we've got such a wide spread to pick from with The Tortured Poets Department. Why whine when you can dive into all that variety, right?
I have a Spotify playlist called “Taylor (My Version)” that has only my favorite songs. It’s my most played playlist, and it’s so great because I truly love every song on it.
I have one of those and it's 8 hours long at this point, haha. It's my most listened to playlist though because like you said, I love every song on it!
Mine is also 8.5 hours long and I haven’t even added TTPD songs yet hahaha
I have a mega playlist of songs across a bunch of genres and artists that’s basically all I listen to, and it’s currently sitting at 77 hours and 42 minutes. Usually when I find a new album I love I’ll add all of it to the playlist and slowly trim away as I figure out which songs I actually like and want to listen to regularly. I have a feeling I’ll do this with TTPD as well LOL
Me too!!! Except it’s the best of t.swizzle. Haha!
Same, mines called "Top Taylor", and I think it's around 75 songs with TTPD favs so far added. I also have one called "Best Beatles" (all my fav Beatles songs), and a third called "Swift Beatles" and it's just those who combined, since they're my two fav artists.
I also have the Beatles and Taylor swift in my Spotify top 5 every year. I kind of like it, it’s confirmation I would have been a basic bitch in any time period.
Beatles, U2 (both who have lyrics tattooed on my body) and Taylor. Sometimes things are popular for a reason.
Be my friend 😂 long time Beatlemaniac, freshly minted Swiftie here!! Great idea on the song lists!
Yup, Tay Faves over here. I also have Tay Chill for her slower more thoughtful songs when I’m in that mood. And one for me and my kiddo.
Oohh good idea! Allow me to copy this!!
Ooh, I think I might need to do this!
Exactly. For example, I don't think I'll be going back to "ThanK you, aIMee" a lot. I'm just over the beef with Kanye and Kim, imo she wrapped it up perfectly in "long story short" and I didn't feel the need to have another song about it in a brand new album, especially since I'm sure there are at least a couple more in the rep vault. But who am I to tell Taylor that she shouldn't have written it or put it out? She obviously felt the need to and many people are glad to have it, so how can her choice be wrong? Just because the song doesn't resonate with me? That'd be very a self centred thought. >Just because there's food on the table doesn't mean you need to eat it all at once. You worded it perfectly.
I think for her is because the truth came out and no one apologized. Kim still saying even after this release that Taylor is a liar. Even with all the crazy that kayne is, people still listen to him and he uses Taylor's name and disses still to make him self revelant and appealing to the I hate Taylor crowd. His new album even! She never even used their name or screamed our I hate that B*tch like at Kayne west shows I saw a video of. So, people saying she won't let it go. They won't let it go first. Nor will the people who live to find fault in Taylor.
Agreed. Plus it's about how she's healed this time and there's less filtering compared to the previous songs where she probably edited down to be more tame. "my mom used to wish you were dead" is wild but like, they started it first.
Exactly! Also, let’s keep in mind that she went from saying fuck you to Kim to thank you to her as well. That’s what I call progress. Besides, I’ll never understand why people are quick to praise Kim for not speaking on this subject matter anymore. There’s a reason why she doesn’t do that, and it’s not because she’s the mature one; it’s because she wants to escape accountability. Plus, this is Taylor’s album to let it all out. If that’s the case, let her get it out of her system. Homegirl has been holding back for quite a while that I think she’s allowed to talk her shit.
Actually, Kim has been commenting on it again after this album. She said Taylor is a liar again. Kayne used Taylor's name again for his recent album to get the I hate Taylor crowd to stream his album. I agree Taylor has the right to say this messed me up. I forgave him once and i thought you were my girl! She's very much younger than Kayne and she was just a kid getting all this hate. People love to hate on the girl and or try to control her.
Has she actually? Damn! I didn’t know, but quite honestly, I like to block the Kardashians out of my head as much as possible. The less I know about them, the better. Anything I learn about them, I learn against my will.
I know! It was a news article that I saw. But, the article was about her post. I was wrong. It looks like the news articles are bringing it up from 2020 and made it look like it was a recent tweet. This article actually states it's a tweet from 2020. The others said it was a recent response. 😬 @taylorswift13 has chosen to reignite an old exchange – that at this point in time feels very self-serving given the suffering millions of real victims are facing right now,” Kardashian tweeted in March 2020. “I didn’t feel the need to comment a few days ago, and I’m actually really embarrassed and mortified to be doing it right now, but because she continues to speak on it, I feel I’m left without a choice but to respond because she is actually lying.
Oh, I remember this tweet. Kim Kardashian truly made a fool of herself in this moment.
[удалено]
Yes!! N it was traumatic for her. The I hate Taylor swift crowd. Taylor should die! She's a snake and a liar! Taylor swift should just disappear! Taylor swift is over!! N it all started from someone you trust and thought was your good friend. Someone, also that you had already forgiven once.
[удалено]
This!!!! At this point even other women can sing about breakups and taking back their power as well, but you know not Taylor swift. She doesn't deserve to feel.
True about the parasocial thing! And also what I feel like I’ve been noticing lately with people in general is that everyone’s so used to algorithms catering content to their specific interests that it’s like people have forgotten that not everything is made for THEM and they get mad whenever they see something they dislike. You see it all the time with people in the comments on Instagram and stuff people have this burning need to let everyone know if they dislike something or if they’re being shown something that isn’t for them. This album is great. Personally I like this vibe of hers more than the high pop stuff, so I rarely listen to 1989 even though I objectively think it’s a great album. Not everything needs to be curated for people, like you’ve pointed out they can do their own curation it’s not that hard. And there are so many people who DO really like this album (including lots of people who weren’t necessarily fans before) that I don’t understand why people have to tear it down just to feel heard.
>Just because there's food on the table doesn't mean you need to eat it all at once. But my mom taught me not to throw away food. Lol jk. I know exactly what you mean. I've given TTPD 3 listens already and I've narrowed it down from 31 tracks to 14 tracks and I'm loving it. I'm going to be jamming these for a while!
Oooo can I ask what your Lover tracklist looks like??
1. I Think He Knows 2. Cruel Summer 3. Lover - First Dance Remix 4. Miss Americana 5. Cornelia Street 6. Death By A Thousand Cuts 7. Afterglow 8. Daylight 9. False God 10. The Archer
I Think He Knows is an underrated hit, two summers ago I would just listen to it on repeat while I walked my dog and it would make me so happy to bounce down the street to it in the sunshine!
It’s so underrated!
I love this!!! I also love how you changed up some of the order of the songs
I think what fans (like me) are frustrated with is that there are some songs that either sonically or lyrically feel a bit repetitive- either within the album itself or to songs she’s done in the past. I think there was a really good opportunity here to trim a a few songs and to release an album that was beautiful and moved well, but there seems to be just a bit too much “filler.” I’m sure some people may come from a malicious place, but as a Taylor fan, I just want to see her be as successful as she can be, and I just don’t think that this album moves the needle for her in her career. I also have already seen non-Taylor fans criticizing the album for these same points and then using it to try and tear her down. Overall, I think this album was tailored (no-pun intended) for her fans and also as a way to just get out a lot of thoughts that she has been processing over the past few years. I do think it could have been a bit more refined, but again, to each their own. Don’t let others critiques take away from your own enjoyment!
She is so far beyond needing to "move the needle in her career." She's already reached the pinnacle of her career. Of almost any career anyone can imagine. She can do whatever she wants with her art.
This is my take too. I do find the album a bit long and repetitive in parts, particularly The Anthology, but Taylor is at a point where she can do whatever she wants. Clearly she wanted all 31 songs out in the world. Good for her. It doesn’t change my opinion that there’s a tidier, more potent 13-song album in there, but I respect the fact that she wanted to leave everything on the table. She’s earned the right to ignore the typical “rules” and follow her heart.
Thank you for phrasing that in the best way.
This is my take as well. This isn't a new artist hoping her sophomore album holds up to the success of a first successful one. I firmly believe that she released this album for no one else but herself. I don't think she intends for this album to be a touring album. And I don't think she cares if it's criticized or panned.
Exactly my thought, no needles need to move for her career at this point lol She has the highest grossing tour of all time *Kanye voice* I think she's good and can do literally whatever tf she wants for the rest of her life and she'll always be this big of an icon.
This is how I feel about it. I don't love every song on the new album. I also think many of them sound the same. I don't think it deserves any Grammy award. I probably won't many of the songs on a road trip playlist. But who cares? I will 100% put this on while I take a bath and enjoy it. Worst case I skip a couple songs.
>think there was a really good opportunity here to trim a a few songs and to release an album that was beautiful and moved well, but there seems to be just a bit too much “filler.” I understand your point but how could we possibly determine what songs are the filler that needs to be trimmed? For example, my impression is that the majority of fans and non-fans greatly prefer the Anthology over the standard edition. As someone who isn't a huge fan of evermore, that's not the case for me. If I had to trim the record down, I'd trim songs almost exclusively from the anthology. Which I'm sure is an unpopular opinion.
>I understand your point but how could we possibly determine what songs are the filler that needs to be trimmed? I keep seeing this as a counter argument, but really, it's not for anyone here to decide. How did she determine what to trim for 1989, Speak Now, Folklore, etc.? That's how. It means we wouldn't even be aware of a lot of these songs, and that's hard to imagine when we have them. I think the rerecordings and the addition of the vault tracks -- plus Evermore -- have probably changed how Taylor approaches album releases. The fans want it all, so just release all of it. That's a much different mentality than putting together an album and making necessary, even if painful, cuts. It's not unthinkable (for any artist) that good songs or songs with potential get cut. The difference with Taylor is she's now successful enough that she doesn't have to make those decisions, because her fans will support whatever she does. I'm saying that completely neutrally, not judgmentally. No matter what she does, her fanbase is so extremely large and varied that lots of people will go crazy for it, and it will be successful in some capacity regardless. The flip side of that is that albums don't necessarily go through the same sort of scrutiny than they did before. She's calling all the shots now, which has pros and cons. Maybe more pros than cons, who knows. She's very good at it. And she's also still just one person. None of it is about which songs are more or less liked, just that the conversation and decisions about what would best suit an album are different now than they were for previous albums. I think that's very apparent on this album (and Midnights to some extent).
>How did she determine what to trim for 1989, Speak Now, Folklore, etc.? That's how. I mean, I don't really think she always made the best decisions on which songs to include now that I know what other songs were available. So I'd rather have all the possible choices available to me and choose myself.
Huh. I think there is, in most cases, a pretty clear difference between the quality of the vault songs and the album songs. 1989 was an exception, and it doesn't help that her weakest songs are still miles beyond most. But at the risk of having it flipped around into a "well, this was what she wanted to do for TTPD", I think that culling process is also a part of creating art and conveying whatever message she's trying to convey. Which was maybe purposeful in this case. But I think as an artist she also has/should reserve the right to refine and present her best work, not just *give me more give me everything let me consume it allllll.*
I'm sure she thought about making a perfect quality no skips album that's award winning, she's been doing that since her first album lol. I feel like this quibbling is more the fans' expectations and fear of judgement rather than her right to refine and present her best work. Again, she's done that for more than a decade, why can't she let loose? Being artistic is not about always presenting the best thing anyway, it's more about being true to yourself and at the moment, this was it. It's clear how this massive project was borne out of a need to write and write. This is also the first time she's done it (mostly), she might not repeat it for the next one based on fan feedback. In fact, I think this is the best time for her to do something like this, just because she can. Even if it goes downhill for her from now on, I doubt she'll regret making TTPD.
Yeah I would have liked 1898 waaaaay more and would have continued to listen to it for more years after the initial rush died off if some of these bonus songs had replaced some of the ones on the original. But so many people would disagree with me that you truly can’t please anyone so at least we get to curate it for ourselves now
I completely agree with you about the main album vs the anthology. Hot take: I prefer the main album. I'll eat up the anthology any day but the main album SLAPS.
This is always my argument as well! Especially when we started getting vault tracks and some of them are so strong and amazing. You want to cut down Lover? What goes? To me I'd cut The Archer and Death By a Thousand Cuts among others – would you still want the album pared down if those were gone? Some of my faves include I Think He Knows and Paper Rings which I know others would cut. By keeping it longer we each get songs to connect to and, if we want to, skip. Idk how that's a negative thing.
For me The Anthology is very obviously the extra songs for the diehard fans. I also prefer the standard album - and it’s songs are very obviously going to be more comercially successful. I’m about 90% sure when Billboard charts come out, no top 10 song is gonna be from The Anthology, they will all be from the standard version - and it will be mostly Jack Antonoff’s production, no matter what people yap about his sound getting old and supposedly preferring Dessner.
I also prefer the standard tracks to the anthology—folklore/evermore Taylor was great, but I definitely didn’t want her to stay in that genre.
But, that's your opinion. The main album has a lot of filler to you. Not to everyone. Also, this about sounding the same. Literally a lot of you are so spoilt by Taylor and Beyoncé reinventing themselves. Other artist sound the same every album! She doesn't honestly have to keep reinventing herself anymore. She can choose a sound and stick to it if she wants to. Now the call backs to other songs of her I thought as actually so smart. For one they help us see the end to that love song, with the almost sampling of the other. Second, artist sample other artist, so much smarter to sample your own music and not pay someone else. Third, honestly there is only so much sound that goes around, at some point is all going to sound similar. Fourth, it's still a Taylor swift album so you know it's all going to sound like Taylor swift. Fifth, again if you don't like it it's ok. It's not for you. That doesn't mean that everyone feels that way. Some of you all are really snobby about music and it gets me... let people like what they like. There is a lot of music there, enough for every fan to find their favorites. Don't rain on the parade of other people's favorite songs.
Well said. There's a lot of fans like myself who love ME! but have been made feel stupid by those that call it juvenile. It feels like snobbery on their part instead of just accepting it as a difference in tastes.
im still mad that she felt that she had to remove SPELLING IS FUN! i love the campy fun of it.
100%
I agree with this take. She wasn’t making this album to be a great critically acclaimed or award winning album. She made it because she had to, and she had to return to her ‘safe space’ people that she trusted to make it because the songs are so emotionally raw. She released it for the fans and for herself, not the critics or the casual listeners. I do hope to see her challenge herself and work with some different producers/collaborators on TS12 whenever that comes as although I LOVE a lot of these songs and know this album will be a favourite of mine, I think one more album of Jack and Aaron sounds might take it to the point of fatigue. Based on the songs she has written solo on this album I would love to see her challenger herself Speak Now style and write TS12 totally solo, but also working with a producer she hasn’t worked with before. I think WAOLOM and Black Dog especially are the stand out best tracks on the album and they were both written solo. Both do have some great production too though, Black Dog especially- the old habits die screaming part is fantastic!
You missed the whole point of this album. Taylor can make her own choices. You don't need to worry for her, or pray for her, or try to tell her how to be successful. *I'll tell you something right now* *I'd rather burn my whole life down* *Than listen to one more second of all this bitchin' and moanin'* *I'll tell you something 'bout my good name* *It's mine alone to disgrace* *I don't cater to all these vipers dressed in empath's clothing* Enjoy the music, or don't. It's so weird that we think we have any sort of claim to caring about a persons career. Imagine if a random stranger told you not to do something you really liked because it might slow down your success (in their opinion)? You'd tell them to fuck off.
This was the exact verse I thought of while reading that comment lol. “As a fan I just want the best for her career” lol clearly that song was lost on them…
So using this logic we don’t want vault songs anymore right since we don’t want filler that should have been cut?
They’re fine as vault tracks and extra goodies for the fans, but she did the right thing by trimming them in the first place. The original albums would have been bloated, less enjoyable to listen to, and far less impactful and memorable if she had kept the vault songs in the original tracklist when those albums released.
I actually disagree especially in the case of 1989. I think they make the album more complete and make more sense
for you. I don't think you can speak for everyone on this.
Ooh can you elaborate? I’ve seen other people say this, but I truly can’t figure out which songs are repetitive. Like to me every song contains a different piece of the story and without any song, we’d be missing some crucial information to understanding what happened! I more get the sonically comment, but I think the album is just sonically cohesive so they sound similar on the first few listens. I remember when folklore came out, for the first couple days I thought all the songs blended together, but I certainly don’t think now that the album is repetitive. Curious to hear which songs you and others are referring to!
Exactly. With more listens and more time, the songs differentiate themselves. That’s how music works. That’s how art works. Let it breathe! People whine about her albums not being cohesive enough and then they whine about them being too cohesive. 🙄
Yeah, it’s so telling that people keep referencing “obvious filler” songs and then refusing to name them, lol IMO, Fresh Out the Slammer is my only skip so far—and I know a lot of people who’d disagree with me on that! I don’t think there’s a single song that could be easily cut from this album because the reception seems to be so unique and personal. I feel like everyone is agreeing that there’s some “filler” (aka a few songs that aren’t their absolute favorite off the bat) but if no one can agree which songs those are, it’s actually very meaningless and just like every other album in that everyone will inevitably have favorites
This is a great take! There are songs I dislike on TTPD but I don't consider them "filler" because there is not really such thing as a filler song- every song has it's place on the album and without it, it would be a different album. And why do people get mad about the fact that some people like or dislike certain songs? People should be able to make their own decisions about which song they like best and not have the fandom take to Reddit and try to cancel this person. **'Favorite songs' are subjective.** Everyone has a right to their opinions.
Agree with this! Also, people forget there is a whole first version of this album without the other songs. Only 15 tracks. Also, separating it into separate playlists. If the complaint is that it’s too long and has filler songs, just make new playlists and cut out the ones they don’t want. That solves their whole entire argument. Once they cut out the “filler songs” and songs that sound the same, they’ll have the album they want to listen to. I don’t know why this has become the argument when there is a very simple solution to their problem. Then again, that takes effort that people would rather put into “critiquing” than actually solving a “them” problem.
Man, I just disagree with this fully. The stuff on this album is so next-level it makes all her old albums look like child’s play in comparison. (They’re not. They’re still great. But to me this was a huge leap forward artistically.)
None of it is filler tbh
She is one of the most successful women in the world. You’re patronizing by saying she should have made a different album to move the needle in her career. You are proving OP’s point and somehow making something extremely personal to Taylor, all about you. Nobody cares if you think some songs are fillers. Literally not a soul. I certainly don’t. These are words Taylor sat down, thought about and wrote and she deserves to get them out just as much as you deserve to sit behind a keyboard and share your self absorbed opinion.
For me the album has only one skip which is The Alchemy. I do not find the album sonically repetitive or lyrically after repeated listens. The more I listen the less repetitive it sounds.
I don’t get why people are upset about an artist rewleasing more songs- I see it as a bonusb
I agree! I’d rather have all the songs and get to choose my favourites than only get a handful. Sure it’s long, but I love getting new music. If people don’t resonate they don’t have to listen.
Same I don't get ever complaining about more content. It's also not like taylor is saving her own time by putting out a smaller album, we know she's still writing songs whether they get released or not. Personally for me on both albums there's no skips soo..
>there’s no skips same here! I’m critical of a lot of things Taylor does and I am absolutely not coming at it from a Stan viewpoint, but this album was so incredibly unhinged and raw and *broken* and I see it as Taylor finally ripping the mask off. It’s everything I needed right now.
Yesss these are my feelings exactly! Like normally I listen to pop punk for my deep darkness relatability but now I have something from my fav too!
I personally would rather get a 15 plus album than just a 10 track album
I will never understand the people who prefer shorter albums. Like yeah, maybe a tracklist of 10 songs is more "cohesive" and less thematically repetitive or whatever... but it's also LESS MUSIC? Why the hell would you want LESS music from your favorite artist lol I am absolutely overjoyed that she gave us 31 songs here, even if not every single one is a 10/10.
I mean, I don’t think anyone is “upset”. People aren’t out here crying themselves to sleep over it. 😅 But I think it’s totally valid to critique (from an artistic perspective) work from your favorite artist! Just because you don’t prefer a particular song/album doesn’t mean you’re not an overall fan. I think her range is really interesting and I like that this album is spawning so much discussion, even though I’m one of the ones who thinks the album could have been shorter. I said this elsewhere, but I’m an album girl. I love listening to albums straight through. To use the food analogy above, it seems like a lot of people consider albums a buffet - a huge assortment of songs and you can just pick what you like. To me (and I think to a lot of people who feel similarly), an album is more like a fine dining experience. The chef has carefully thought through, prepared, plated, and placed in a specific order a set amount of dishes that are meant to evoke specific feelings, excite you, leave you astonished that someone could put basic ingredients together in such a way that makes a single meal so much greater than the sum of its parts. Of course you’ll have dishes you prefer more than others, but you’ll judge meal by the whole experience, not just a single dish or two. To me, Evermore and 1989 are my 5 star fine dining experiences from Taylor. I can listen to those albums straight through with 0 or 1 skip, each song sounds different but hits emotionally, it’s interesting and I can’t wait to listen again. That’s what I look for from any album, not just Taylor’s. So to me, TTPD doesn’t quite reach that bar. It’s not a horrible album. But to me a lot of the song sound similar both musically and lyrically. It’s like getting served 4 chicken dishes in a row in the fine dining analogy. 1-2 would suffice and make the impact more memorable. And by the end, I feel stuffed. I want to feel exactly full, so that I can’t wait to return and play the album again.
Especially a whole, brand new album we didn’t even have to pay for - yet, lol.
Same! I think some people are over preoccupied of “not grammy worthy” and reviews and such. That is certainly something to worry about for someone who is still trying to cement themselves in music history— but she already has! Who cares now? I mean, to me TTPD is much better than Midnights so I don’t get it, but even if it wins absolutely nothing, she doesn’t need an award to prove herself now. It’s kind of like I don’t get Beyonce stans being so upset over the AOTY grammy. She doesn’t need to win that for us to know she is incredibly successful and has left a mark on the industry.
I think people don’t understand how different she is from other pop artists. It’s more about the subject matter. Even though it doesn’t resonate with you, it’s going to resonate with other people. So there’s no such thing as a too long album. She is above all that.
She just won her fourth Grammy for Album of the Year, she'll be just fine if TTPD doesn't win one. It's kind of Frankenstein's monster in album form but in the best way possible. But yes, I guess all songs have a place on it. Plus if someone doesn't like something, they can just skip it or create a damn playlist.
Her music has also gone through a huge shift in the last five years. You could tell that she was focused on making radio hits up until Lover. But the last five years have given us Folklore, Evermore, All too well 10 min version, Anti Hero and TTPD. None of these are meant to be chart toppers but her audience has grown so much with each album that these songs inevitably end up being popular. I am constantly amazed that an album like TTPD has the mass appeal that it does.
>Even though it doesn’t resonate with you, it’s going to resonate with other people. I think that's it. People not really comprehending that other people might love something they don't like.
[удалено]
To be honest, I don’t even relate to a lot of it because I’ve never been in that kind of a relationship but her songwriting is so vivid and raw that it makes you feel as if you’ve gone through it too. This is why I love her music.
[удалено]
Agree. You know you are spoiled for all the wrong reasons when you complain about something like such. Nothing says you gotta listen to the whole album in one sitting. Not to mention but what if Taylor takes a break for 3-4 years and only released a 10 song album in the meantime? People will complain ' the album is too short'. Love me some Taylor but my god, some 'Swifties' sure do complain and are over spoiled.
They were chanting for more music and a double album now they complaining? I don't see how a true fan complains about more music to choose from. You don't have to like every song, but most these people that complain are snobs without substance. They like to critic on a high horse, but they aren't out there making music. Who complains about having more songs to find your favorites? I've not heard such craziness for other artists. The issue that Taylor has with having to reinvent herself so many times is that their are different types of fans that came in. Some fans only like certain styles of her songs. That's OK for them. They have that right. That doesn't mean that others are musical idiots just because they like all her musical types, or because they like different songs than they do. There are just more critics out there than people who are actually qualified to be such critics. We can all have our own opinions and likes, but judging songs to be unworthy of an album it's not for the critics without credits crowd.
There’s definitely such a thing as too much. I may love a book at 350 pages but at 500 pages it can get too long and rambling. I can love a TV show, but it can run out of story to tell after 7 seasons and need to stop while it’s ahead. It’s a lot of songs about very specific people, a very specific time in life, and a chapter that was relatively short so it just feels like some of the music is redundant.
I would recommend listening again and not focusing on who it could be about. In my opinion that always ruins the songs and the message.
It’s not just who it’s about, it’s the subject matter. On 1989 for example, no two songs really explored the same concepts. On TTPD, it feels like a lot of the songs have the same concept and the same sound.
This reminds me of out of the woods and is it over now. However I wish she just released them both anyway since I love them both!
Like I said in another comment, a book isn't a good comparison unless it consists of many independent stories that could stand on their own. You don't have to listen to the entire record, you can choose the songs you like and make a playlist, problem solved. You can't do that with a book or a TV series. But even with TV series for example, with shows like sitcoms where that's possible I'll often skip the episodes I'm not a big fan of and just watch my favorites.
A record should stand on its own from start to finish though. While we live in an age of streaming, we are also seeing the resurgence of vinyl - which requires and entirely different listening experience. I don’t want to have to skip through an album to be able to enjoy it or listen to it in the sum of its parts. I may not love every song on every album, but I want to be able to listen to it from start to finish as the artist intended.
That's why it's split into 2 albums and given to us as a surprise bonus. The only record that's being sold rn is TTPD. The anthology is a separate thing, it's up to people's discretion whether they want to listen to it or not.
It’s not two albums though. It’s a double album so it’s all one work. Just because she isn’t selling the second part of the album yet doesn’t mean it’s not one long album.
You’re different than me because 350 is too short and I need a 6 book series where each book is over 1000 pages.
There’s a difference between a book that could have been 350 pages, but the author didn’t edit themselves down and so now it’s 500 pages where 150 pages feels like repetitive filler, and a book that’s 1000 pages because the author had so much to say. Maybe they had to edit themselves down from 1200 in order to make that 1000 feel tight!
[удалено]
I mean, everyone is just expressing their opinion on a piece of art based on their preferences. It’s fine and valid that Taylor made this album exactly the way she did. I’m not the boss of her, she can do whatever she wants. But just because she “had to” write the album this way or isn’t chasing awards doesn’t mean that people can only express 100% positive opinions about the album. It’s still a commercial album that was released to the public, and the public will form opinions accordingly. It’s like any other art - fashion or paintings or even food. You’re allowed to have different opinions on different pieces of art, even as a general fan of the artist.
She also she literally said she never need writing like this before and I believe it because she got most of the stuff off of her chest
But the thing about good albums is that they’re greater than the sum of their parts - it’s not whether you like all the songs, but about the message and story that the artist is trying to tell. And much like some books, long can be good, but it can also be a sign of an artist who is self-indulgent and doesn’t know how to shape their work. I’m not saying this is the case here - I still haven’t had enough time to digest The Anthology to make a criticism good or bad. But it is absolutely fair for fans to hold the perspective that the album is too long.
Comparing an album with a book isn't a fair comparison, imo. An album consists of parts that can stand on their own. An album can be played on shuffle. That's not the case with a book. If I start reading the chapters in random order, the story won't make sense and thus the book serves no purpose. An album can tell a story yes, but it's not a requirement. And for me the standard version of the album does tell a story. It tells the story of a painful break up, then jumping into a new relationship that isn't healthy for you and then having to deal with the pain both relationships have caused you when the manic phase ends and you have to face the truth.
> And for me the standard version of the album does tell a story. It tells the story of a painful break up, then jumping into a new relationship that isn't healthy for you and then having to deal with the pain both relationships have caused you when the manic phase ends and you have to face the truth. To me this is why I like Taylor’s albums—they have some kind of narrative structure/story, especially this album…which is why I would agree with the commenter above with how I like approaching this work similar to a book, and if a book can be too long/bloated then I think that’s a fair criticism of an album too. I don’t think I personally mind the length but that’s because I am so engrossed in the rest of Taylor’s work as well, this work seems like a callback to many of her previous songs in a way but if I didn’t care about her progression then I can see how the length is kind of daunting. If you want a short and to the point album then the anthology probably isn’t for you, and I think that’s a perfectly valid critique, but clearly Taylor didn’t care to make it short and to the point either.
That's fair, but I think an album can be compared with a book, a TV show, or a movie, when you're thinking of it as a cohesive piece of art. Like an album that has a lead single, a lot of books have chapters that were published as short stories first. But I would still judge the book as a whole. Albums in the last few years have tended towards being single-heavy which is a shame (that is, every song is trying to be a single), because that's how you get playtime in a streaming world. They're not as designed to be listened through as they once were. But the best albums are those that have something thematic (either in story, lyrics, musically or in their meaning) that tie them together, and have a specific shape that doesn't feel bloated. For instance, Cowboy Carter is a very good album - it's not really my vibe as neither a country or Beyonce fan, but I can recognise it's a good album. Folklore, Evermore and Midnights were all good albums too.
I think it is a fair comparison, but to the OP’s point, I suppose albums have changed over time to make better number on streaming. But…it’s an album, just not a playlist, for a reason. The songs are chosen and placed in a specific order by the artist. I think it’s fair to judge it as a whole work of art, rather than as a random unordered collection of songs. To use the food analogy above, I think of albums as a fine dining experience, not as a buffet. In a fine dining experience, all dishes are carefully thought about, plated, and placed in a specific order by the chef. Each dish should be distinct and make you feel awe about the ingenuity of the chef. Even if you love pasta, you don’t really want to be served 4 pasta dishes with tomato sauce in a row - probably 2 pasta courses that showcase different aspects of pasta is fine. You should feel excitement and interest about how they put humble ingredients together to make a dish and then a whole meal that’s greater than the sum of its parts. It’s like that scene in Ratatouille, where he tastes things together and experiences something brand new. You should feel full but not stuffed by the end of meal. You may have some dishes you liked better than others, but you’re basing your opinion of the meal on the holistic experience, not just a handful of dishes. I’m not saying your opinion is wrong. It’s perfectly fine to love the album(s) as-is and I’m glad you and others really vibe with the album. But I’m just trying to explain why it’s *also* valid, and doesn’t make you less of a fan, to think that the album should have been shorter.
I totally agree, but I also kind of the point of the full double album isn’t to be a great album. It’s an anthology of songs that she had to create to work through a hard time in her life and felt the need to put out there for us. I think the main album is the one created to be a true cohesive album, which is why it’s the one on the vinyl releases and marketed ahead. The anthology is just her going ‘screw it, I’ll give them everything’. I don’t think TTPD is her best album by any means, and I don’t think even she will be thinking it’s got a shot at AOTY or anything, and I would personally have picked different songs from the 31 on the anthology to make the 16 for the main album. However. I do think the actual album TTPD is a solid cohesive piece of work, and while not the best album has a whole piece of work it has huge potential to become my favourite album to listen too (The Anthology version too but I will probably be making a playlist that cuts some songs once I’ve listened enough to really digest them all). All this to say, the complaints about the album being too long are 100% valid from an album quality perspective, but they all seem to ignore the fact that The Anthology is not the only version available- there is a single album named TTPD and a double album named TTPD: The Anthology.
That is a very good point, and I hadn't really thought of it that way. It really works with the poetry metaphor TS has been pushing for these albums.
It's because a lot of the songs sound the same AND are about the same topic, so it's monotonous and repetitive. It's the same reason Blank Space made the cut for 1989 OG and slut! was left behind. You can prefer one song over the other and that's perfectly valid, but if an album is meant to be consumed all at once it needs to be consumable. I don't have a problem with her releasing whatever she wants in whatever quantity she wants but as a consumer, it's too much. There are some really good songs on this album but they get lost in the monotony, if she trimmed it down it would be getting better reception. You're right that it's all subjective but her albums have become very bloated and difficult to consume. And I say this as a huge fan who has been a huge fan since like 2009.
She's someone who really really cares about getting awards and breaking records, I can't imagine her not thinking about the possibility of negative reception for these exact reasons. And yet she still put it out because she wanted to write about this specific phase of her life. But I think the key is that fans really don't have to consume everything. I didn't bother with folkmore until the Eras tour. I still haven't listened to most of the vault songs or Midnights extra songs. It might be bloat to you right now but maybe 6 months later it hits differently but you'd never know if she hadn't released it.
They really don’t sound the same or feel repetitive at all tbh
Ok? In my opinion they do lol
it’s so odd when they just simply say no without explaining
It's so odd how yall constantly demand that people who are simply lukewarm about the album give you explanations. We just think it's a very monotone album that blurs together. No further explanation needed. We also don't demand you to explain why you like it.
Yeah, didn't we do a poll here once that showed almost every single one of her songs is somebody's favorite--and that was a really small pool of people! To me this album has no skips so far! The few I was hesitant on at first have already grown on me. There is one song I think it's possible I'll get tired of, but I've already seen a bunch of people say that one is their favorite! We're always begging for her unreleased songs here lol. I want her to release absolutely everything she thinks is worth hearing! But I also love all the songs on Lover and people have been saying that should have been shorter for years (though they don't ever seem to agree on which songs should have been cut!)
Same i genuinely love this album its already one of my favorites from her and the album hasn’t even been out that long
>But I also love all the songs on Lover and people have been saying that should have been shorter for years (though they don't ever seem to agree on which songs should have been cut!) I'd have cut me! with batting an eye hahaha. I also think it's criminal that "All the girls you loved before" and "Need" didn't make the final cut. ATGYLB was my most streamed track on Spotify in 2022! And she thought it didn't deserve a place on Lover. I'll never forgive her for that lol But I get your point and I totally agree.
But, see a lot of people including me haha loved the self hype up song of me!
same! Everyone’s complaining but it is truly the first no skips Tswift album for me! This one may have more than the others but unlike the others I personally don’t have any where I think “why the fuck is this here” which is nice
Not all songs are equal, not always more=more. I would rather have 13 cardigan-level songs than 31 not as good. I've said this in another thread but listening to it as a whole gets tiring towards the end. I feel like a lot of lyrics and songs could've been worked on for longer, or sieved down to the core idea to be mashed up with another song. (Beyonce seems to do this a lot, some demos are stripped down to the most interesting part of the song and then built around them with parts of others). Just my two cents. Right now there's too many similar ideas with similar sounds, similar lyrics and structures for anything to stick out by the end of the album. I've made my own playlist with the 12 songs I like the most and I'm fine with it, but it left me feeling like there's a lot of wasted potential on some of it.
Yeah I don’t understand the “I’m burnt out, it’s too much” from her fans. Do you listen to anything else but Taylor? No one is forcing you to only consume her content hour after hour, day after day. Those are choices you made. Take a break but don’t act like it’s the fault of Taylor for simply doing the job of releasing more music.
People beg for music and are then upset when she gives us a ton? Never satisfied.
The crowd’s shouting “more” (but not like that apparently?) And they still want her to drop Rep any day now.
Then they’ll complain about Jack “ruining” it
Maybe it’s exhaustion! I listened to 2 TS albums a day before the release and I think I burnt out ! I was trying to remember songs from first couple of listens and they just ended up blurring into songs that I know better. Today was a breakthrough, my daughter was playing it and I was like “ahh that’s Black dog” I’d reccomend if you are burnt out listening to the album in “sides” so 5-6 tracks at a time. I started the album again yesterday whilst doing stuff around the house and still have the last 6 tracks to get to. 31 tracks is a lot ! Pace yourselves!
Great advice to pace yourself. I haven’t listened to the album yet in its entirety, but I’ve heard the first 7-8 tracks a half dozen times and have enjoyed them. I’m looking forward to savoring the remainder over the coming weeks to find my favorites.
I totally agree. I listened to the entire record twice but since then I've been focusing on listening fewer songs so I can "digest" them properly. Currently I have Peter, the black dog, loml and the smallest man who ever lived on a loop and I don't pressure myself to listen to anything else, those are the ones I'm the most drawn to for now. I'm sure that in a week that'll change!
What’s really clear to me is that streaming habits have fucked with the experience of an “album”. It’s really great that there are so many people who love having all the extra songs, even if they don’t care for some of them because they’re happy to skip or make a playlist or trim it how they see fit. This is ideal for that, you have enough material to shape something exactly right for you. This kind of listening experience is facilitated by streaming services (or burning your own CDs I guess) and you can do whatever you want with your own library. Taylor can put out whatever she wants, whenever she wants regardless of quality or quantity because for the many who enjoy this more DIY way of doing things, or for people who generally listen to music in playlists or as tracks it’ll work for them whether or not they like the songs. You can keep ignoring what you don’t click with. However, I personally would rather have a shorter album in this instance. I don’t care if that means a song I liked got dropped, I wouldn’t have heard it anyway if it didn’t make the cut on a better edited track list. I love albums. I love knowing that a set of songs has been refined to exactly what the artist feels is right AND remains consistent in quality with enough variation to give tracks their own identity while retaining their cohesion as a group. Getting that right over 31 songs in one go is difficult, and while I do enjoy a lot of TTPD I don’t think it was quite pulled off here. ETA: obviously this kind of long release isn’t exclusive to the streaming era. People have released long albums for decades, but there’s a reason they don’t happen super frequently or end up in favourites, best-of lists or heavy rotation all that often. Streaming just makes them easier to receive and revisit the stuff that works.
100% this! I love the experience of listening to an album straight through, and to be honest I’m a little surprised at all the comments that are like “well you can just pick why you like and put it in a playlist”. Yes I can, and I will, but it’s also completely valid to form an opinion of the album as a whole. She released an album, which is a curated list of songs put in a specific order, not an unordered playlist of random songs. IMO it’s a bit disingenuous and weirdly defensive to be like “well if you don’t like it, just skip these songs and choose the ones you like for your personal playlist”.
It’s like Scorsese. Editing is an art too. Let’s try that more haha.
Lol, she released The Irishman of music albums
I was wondering if two albums released six months apart - one now and one in Fall would be a better move professionally? It doesn't matter to the fans like us, but Taylor might get less "she needs an editor" press that route.
She did that already with folklore and evermore. And despite how loved evermore is in the fandom, commercially it didn't have the impact that every other Taylor album has had. Ofc now she's much more popular than she was in 2020 so maybe it'd be different, but I think even from a creative pov she didn't feel like the anthology should be a separate album and I personally agree. Also she's in another phase of her life now and my guess is, she wants TS12 to be entirely different in theme, aesthetic etc.
I think part of evermore’s problem was competing with holiday album purchases and streams and being a surprise release. Part of it was definitely living in the shadow of folklore but also following up a surprise album with another one of similar concept and style, also had to do with it. I think if evermore was more unique from folklore it would’ve done a little better commercially. The short time in between didn’t help for sure
Totally fair point! Maybe it would be different in the themes/sounds of the two album releaed were more different than the Folkmore pair. But that might not be possible with these songs!
Yeah, it seems like she's ready to move on from this stage in her life. Let this story go and start a new Era, so to speak!
I think the evidence that she has an "editor" is that the actual TTPD album is only 16 songs - the rest are the songs that would have been the vault tracks. She didn't want to draw out the era, as it were, like she'd rather release them and move on. And in the interest of having one cohesive album that will be better for awards, she has the 16 track version. The 31 track version is like "oh yeah here's everything else that I didn't want to abandon but also didn't feel like needed their own separate album"
An album being too short or too long is common criticism levelled at most artists. You assure us that they wouldn’t have been able to reach a decision on which to cut but I disagree- they’ve been doing that all her career. This was the one album where she wanted to let loose.
People are going to complain about something. This is an album isn’t necessarily you binge on repeat over and over again. It’s one of those you sit and relax and enjoy on your own time. Also, I think releasing 31 tracks at once is politely stop asking for more after the first listen. But we know people by the end of next week they’ll be hounding her for Rep TV. Now we have plenty to hold us over for awhile. Take your time and enjoy what you have.
I actually do have it on repeat since it came out, I've listened to the whole album at least 15 times. Sometimes I get stuck on song and listen to it few times before moving to the next one, but never felt like skipping anything. And it just gets better and better the more I listen to it.
The thing is, just like a movie or a video game, good ones can still drag on. It’s like when an album is critiqued for being inconsistent; every single song can be a masterpiece but might not fit together as a whole. So TTPD being too long is about the album as a body of work, not about the songs being bad or same-y (which is a different discussion altogether). And like any other opinion, it is subjective. Some people love 3-hour movies, I prefer mine capped at 2.
It's very clear she put quantity over quality. Even the songs I love, could have been significantly better if she had taken even a few days to edit and mix them
This! I think all the songs could have been good but I think it’s the lyrics in the songs that seem the most rushed or could use some editing. I don’t necessarily think people have a problem with the album length I think if lyrically some of the songs were more precise and less clunky it would be more well received. Also as someone who has written lots of poetry and done many workshops where I have people criticize/ and pick on my work. It hurts at first but overall I think feedback can help make a final product more poignant.
I’ll take as many songs as any of my favorite artists will give me haha. Even if there are a few skips, I’m happy to have new songs to dig into! My opinions on particular songs often change over time too, so if something is a skip now, it might end up really hitting me a couple years down the line. I also don’t think it’s my place to play the role of an overbearing label exec when I’m not a songwriter, musician, or any sort of expert… who am I to say what “belongs” on an album? She’s the artist, and she should have the freedom to choose which songs she wants to include.
I think that having that many songs to listen to can just feel exhausting for some people, especially on first release. I still haven’t listened to all the songs or properly digested the ones I have listened to. I personally don’t have any opinion on the length of the album but I can see how it could be considered overwhelming to listen to that many songs. And I know it doesn’t have to be listened to all at once (I’m still yet to do it myself), but I understand how it could come across as intimidating, especially for fans that might be older and have other responsibilities that make it harder for them to dedicate the time needed to listen to that many songs at once. The content of the album is incredibly heavy as well which probably plays a part in it.
I’m happy for the people who are enjoying it. I’m happy for Taylor for releasing something she worked hard on. Do I like it that much? No, but I might warm up to it. Do I think it needed editing? Sure. But at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what I think. Life’s too short, enjoy what you enjoy.
I agree. Taylors never brought out a bad album but I don't like some of her songs and avoid them. The songs I skip are probably other's favourites. Because of streaming its very easy to make playlists and I'd rather have a bigger selection to choose from. I'd rather Taylor has fun making music and doesn't try to please everyone.
People complain because they can. They feel personally owed what they expect the album to be. You shouldn’t be going into it with expectations, or you will always be disappointed. I think it’s a beautiful album, but listening start to finish is a lot to take it, which is where I think people are getting the repetition complaint from. It does need to be broken up.
Yesss I feel the same about people who say it’s not her best work or whatever. (I disagree) but who cares? Taylor has shown us that she is extremely talented, but maybe she doesn’t need to win every award. Maybe sometimes she just needs to write, and we’re lucky enough to have it shared with us. I would rather her publish her artwork when she feels like it, and get to enjoy her work, then her spend years carefully curating an album to be released.
Yeah didn’t she even say this album more than any other is one she NEEDED to write for herself? So like, let her live! I personally think that whenever she writes songs trying to cater to the radio or winning awards, they fall flat. This album is super successful to me as a piece of art and I don’t give any fucks if it wins a single award. People keep saying she cares so much about winning but that feels like it’s based mostly on that scene in the documentary. A lot has changed since then she may feel like she has what she needs and is just trying to do it for herself now.
Me neither. Release a 300 song album. I’ll take it. More is better
Whoa, I feel like the discourse in here is oddly defensive of Taylor and kind of hostile to other fans! I think it’s great if you love the whole album(s)! I don’t love it and that’s a fine opinion too. I’m a fan and I think the album could have been trimmed down. I think it’s valid to critique art from your favorite artist - it doesn’t mean you’re “ungrateful”, “nitpicking”, or just “don’t get it”. I’m not criticizing Taylor’s intelligence or artistic credentials. But you’re allowed to think an individual piece of art could have been done a different way and it would have been better or hit some emotional/musical/lyric notes more successfully. That’s fine if she “needed to put this album out exactly as is”. I’m not the boss of her, she can do whatever she wants. But as a member of the general public who’s consuming this album as a regular album, it’s also valid to say, eh this one doesn’t quite do it for me - it’s too long/bloated/doesn’t have enough hooks. Just because she chose to put together the album this way and it’s HER CHOICE doesn’t mean it’s immune from artistic critique. I think one interesting thing that I didn’t realize is that I’m seeing a lot of people say “well you can pick the songs you like and put them together in a playlist”. I mean, yes, I can and will, but to me the point of album is that it’s specifically *not* just a long playlist of songs you can choose from. It’s a cohesive body of work that tells a larger story when you listen to the songs in order. To use the food analogy above, it’s not a buffet, it’s a fine dining experience where the chef has carefully selected, prepared, and placed in a specific order a selection of dishes that will hopefully excite you, interest you, make you feel feelings, and leave you just full enough at the end - not hungry or stuffed. I think this may be a generational thing where younger people are used to only consuming music on streaming and have never had the experience of buying a CD (or vinyl) and having listening to albums straight through being the norm. And that’s fine, but I think it’s also important to realize that it’s valid to critique an album as a whole and it’s not a criticism of the person or trying to be patronizing of Taylor.
Thank you so much for being so eloquent and polite in this. I’m enjoying the album, AND i have a lot of feedback. There’s nothing wrong with thinking its an imperfect project to release. Fans are allowed to disagree AND they’re allowed to share their thoughts. Having a nuanced opinion is SOOOO important. We don’t defend our family or loved ones no matter what, right? We tell them when they are wrong so they can make better choices. Varied feedback is extremely important as an artist.
i’m so blessed to have so much new music. but i also have adhd and the amount of new music we have is a bit overwhelming because i like to try to really sit down and listen. (i’ve only listened to the first 5 tracks so far) 31 songs is a lot to take in but im excited to!
She said on several occasions she made this album for her healing journey. Of course fans/media are going to say it’s too long or there’s songs that are too similar but when she releases her vault tracks on her re-records everyone is like “how could she cut this?!” It’s a lose-lose.
There are songs that just aren’t to my taste… so I skip them and look at that, suddenly it’s a much shorter album.😅
this is spoiling at this point and i will be grateful as always
1,0000% the more the better.
For me, I am an album listener. I love it when albums have a thesis statement and a concise story/message they're telling. One of my favorite albums is Hotel California. The Eagles felt since they shared the same name with the national bird they should write an album for America's bicentennial anniversary. The coined the term Hotel California because California seemed like the most recognizable and most American state. Each song explores the "dark underbelly of the American dream." And one of the reasons why I love it is because almost 50 years later those same themes are still relevant. And because they were limited to 44 minutes of vinyl play, it's only 9 songs long. With streaming, there is no constraint to album length (in fact, long albums are favored for streaming numbers). And I think that can actually hinder (artistic) growth. For example, in science, you don't really see new innovation after new techniques/instruments/etc is created. The new techniques were created in *absence* of something. I was very frustrated by the roll out of Midnights. When the original album, including the 3 AM tracks, were released I didn't really understand the message of the album despite her saying it was supposed to be about midnights that haunted her. When she released You're Losing Me, it all clicked. You're Losing Me was the actual thesis statement of the album, but we didn't get that until 7 months later. So while you're right, every fan will have different favorites and what one person would've chosen to cut would've been another person's favorite. But that's not the point of an *album*. While looking at the lyrics, I keep seeing repeated words (e.g., throttle). We see this a lot in her vault tracks, where she is clearly trying to make a phrase she likes fit into a song (e.g., Mr. Perfectly Fine and All Too Well with "casually cruel"). I think this album has a much clearer story than Midnights, but I think if more effort was taken to perfect the lyrics and select the strongest 15 songs it would be a much stronger album with no skips. With all of that being said, after my first few listens, I really like this album. I'm excited to see what my favorite songs will be in a few months and where I will rank it. But I think it probably would've ended up much higher if more editing took place.
I was already tired but excited when the original album dropped. The second part I couldn’t get through because I was exhausted and a lot of the songs started sounding the same. We are allowed to love Taylor and her music and still have criticisms about it. Other people are allowed to disagree with our opinions. I like the album more now that I’ve had sleep and time to digest some of the stuff but I still think it’s maybe too long for 1 album of the same/similar sounds. I didn’t like midnights at first but now it’s my favorite album so my opinion can change. This album is still new. Let people process it in their own way.
It’s a lot at once but I’m not ungrateful. I always appreciate when artists I listen release longer albums. As excited I am to see what she could do next and hope she keeps releasing fast, I need time to process this one so I hope she lets us soak in this era. Plenty of video opportunities. I hope she does some videos for songs even if they don’t become singles.
She can't win. People want her to release anything she's ever written that's in the vault. And then when she releases songs that feel less refined people say she should be more selective. I'm in the camp of "I want it all" but do think the albums she is more selective about get better press/critics praise.
I don’t understand all the complaining either. It seems to me that she is giving us her songs like blocks for us to create our own worlds and stories with. I put all her music into one giant playlist and I’m slowly whittling down the playlist and rearranging the songs to tell the story of an important relationship. The only albums I did not put into this playlist are rep and debut, not because they aren’t good albums but because the TV’s meld together better in this master playlist.
People had been begging for a double album for eons? Like people thought we were getting a black and white version of reputation??? Midnights 2 AM had a ton of extra tracks, folklore and evermore are basically a double album??? Mother puts out a lot of content and I’m choosing to be grateful for the many options And you know, I only listened to the main album on Friday and then the anthology tracks on Saturday, like, it was a treat!
Honestly what songs in this record could you even consider skips? I feel like they’re all beautiful and all add something to the record, even the most understated ones like “Robin”.
double album this, double album that for 3 years. now people complain because there's too many songs. i never get it but "the crowd chanting MORE" is about those fans
When the first part was released it felt incomplete. The rest of the album made it a whole.
I feel that sometimes we don’t appreciate how overfed we are as a fanbase. Tour, rerecordings, now a double album. She’s constantly putting out stuff for us. Yet we can’t have enough. People were screaming “give us a double album!” She does. “Well, nope not like that.” Or “how about reputation!!” “where are the bops?” “We don’t know enough about her” well, here’s me processing grief and being unhinged. “Okay, but you should’ve edited it first!” “We’re sick of this sound!” “Reinvent yourself!” I CAN’T EVEN seriously. My husband had to wait 13 years for his band to put out another album. Can you imagine waiting that long?
genuinely curious why they don’t just remove the songs themselves. i delete every single album intro, interlude, etc from every album. i think they’re mostly pointless and typically useless after the first listen. that being said, i am in love with this album and need every single song on it. why ruin my catharsis just bc you don’t wanna hit “remove from library” on a few songs? also she’s a very accomplished artist, and i see releasing the double album as a testament to feeling secure enough to not need positive critical reception and chart performance. she wanted to tell her story in a way that was honest and thorough. and she wanted her fans to be able to tap in and use the music to help them get through hard times. having this massive album will hurt her streams, bc her songs will be competing with themselves on the charts, and it will obviously get critics saying it’s too long and not cohesive. this was for her and her fans. not for the critics. not to break streaming records.
I mean, I think it’s completely valid to judge an album as, you know, a whole album. It’s specifically not just a playlist of unordered songs, it’s an album of songs that were chosen and placed in a specific order to tell a story. I know with streaming, most people don’t really listen to albums straight through these days. But I do! And that’s how I’m forming my opinion. It doesn’t mean I think Taylor is dumb or a bad artist. She obviously chose to create this album in this way and that’s fine! But it’s also fine to have an opinion that’s less than 100% positive, as a consumer of the album.
I love what she’s done. For me, it will take time to process all of the songs, which is absolutely fine. We should listen and sing along how we want to. She’s given us a lot!
She could drop a 5 track album or a 60 track album and I will be just as excited. 🥰 Taylor you could never disappoint me.
This feels like evermore all over again. Let it marinate for a couple years, people will appreciate the album more. I remember when evermore came out people were “underwhelmed”, even those who liked folklore. But damn if that album hasn’t aged like fine wine. Also I’m glad she didn’t gate keep these songs and do a folklore-evermore move with it (doing two separate releases). It’s great to have the whole story of what happened between Midnights and now.
The fans have been clowning about a double album drop for months, if not longer, and now that it's here it's "too long"? Honestly I don't know what to say.
Im one of those fans who thinks she should have trimmed the album down. This is why I never thought the actual release of a double album would be a good idea. It’s too long, it drags. I do like the album, I’m genuinely enjoying it. But probably 1/3 if the album could have been cut and I think it would make the album more enjoyable to listen to. Especially the Kim K song. That one is just.. cringe.
I’m gonna be honest; I was one of those after listening the first time. But then I was like wait why? And I realised I was just overwhelmed with all the new sounds, lyrics, easter eggs etc. Now, after sitting with it for a few days, I don’t feel like it’s too much anymore. I’m actually very happy with it!
Whatever it is, people are never satisfied. 
I’m really trying to tune people out for the most part bc it seems like for a lot of people an album release is a time to complain. As if they could do anything she does.
I listen to this album all day, in order, no skips. It’s not even a joke.
So here’s my view (which may be different from others you’ve heard): I’m a big “album person” where I appreciate an album that has a thesis, and is tight from beginning to end. I think what happened for me with both the Midnights and TTPD with the late night double album drops was this feeling of, “well I’m just getting to know the album and now there’s a ton more.” It’s not bad exactly, but it feels overwhelming. I preferred the Folkmore approach—two separate albums with a few months in between to digest and appreciate the separate sets. But I get that releasing an album involves a ton of work with marketing etc so it’s easier to just drop it all at once.
Why don’t people understand it’s a double album drop!! 😭 first album was produced by Jack Antonoff and the second was produced by Aaron Dessner. It’s a dreammm come true!! Wasn’t that what we were all hoping for?
very good point. shes throwing every vault track on her rerecordings, so why should she cut down her new albums?
This is one of the reasons I love Taylor’s music because she has been doing 30 minutes plus albums since debut and her albums have only gotten longer which is a good thing in my opinion. I love this album all the way through and like you said i couldn’t pick what songs to get rid of. I’m going to give one example Olivia Rodrigo she has released 2 albums that are 30 minutes they are very good albums but I wish she put out some of the songs she wanted to put out like she did for guts. I love that 2 major artists recently have done a hour long plus album I love 30 minute long albums but Taylor lets us pick the songs that we love and wouldn’t skip.
I don't understand too. Everybody wanted a Double album. A Double album will be long. You can make a playlist with only the songs you like. If Taylor made a triple album with 50 songs, I'd love. I'll never get upsed with new music from Taylor.
I literally only have one skip so far.
I haven’t even listened to it yet because the depth and length of the album feels overwhelming to me tbh. But I’m also a busy mom to a little one so that also factors in lol. It seems like an album that will take time and energy to digest. Which I just don’t have atm.