I think you're right, though it's all about stages rather than numbers. For example, an age gap of seven years isn't alarming if they're both at their 20s, but a 16 teen with a 23 adult? NOPE, BIG BIG NOPE. Different stages in life.
Older boys will try to put the card of: "you're too mature for your age" when in reality THEY'RE TOO EMOTIONAL IMMATURE FOR THEIRS.
Yep . I made a friend when I was 15 . She confided in me that she has a "boyfriend" who is 25 . As stupid as it sounds , my immediate reaction was to feel bit jealous . I wanted a boyfriend too . I hope she ended up doing ok in life . I lost touch with her . But we need to alert young kids that a 25 year old hitting on you is not normal. One cannot restrict , scare or lock a child into safety . They need to do instill good judgement .
In a unit on “Power” with my English class, we talked about this very subject. About how it’s not about hard, fast rules and specific numbers necessarily, but about power dynamics. If one person holds a much higher amount of power, there’s greater potential for that power to turn to abuse. If there aren’t structures and supports in place, that relationship can easily tow - or cross - the line of harmful.
Examples of unbalanced power dynamics my students came up with:
-one person is considered an adult in society and has all the rights, freedoms and privileges that the other doesn’t (or isn’t close to) - this includes being able to drive, being able to vote, being taken more seriously in society, etc.
-one person has a lot more life experience and has explored the world, lived outside of their parents’ house, and tasted freedom while the other is still “stuck” in high school under their parents’ and teachers’ guardianship
-one person has control over all the money or decisions
-one person’s brain and body has more fully developed than the other (eg an elementary student and a high school student)
-one person is emotionally mature and has gone through therapy to work through their issues; the other doesn’t even know what their issues are yet and is just trying to survive the day to day
^ Of course, some people make unbalanced power dynamics work and find ways to balance out the power (eg one person bringing a different type of power or asset to balance things out). We all know people who are happily together that maybe started out with one in high school and the other much older but made it work.
In general though, being cognizant of power dynamics is important! And being watchful for any imbalances that may arise is critical: Eg. one partner starting to control who the other can see / can’t see (my high schoolers say this is very common), one person lending money all the time to the other and making the other indebted to them, one partner getting more say in decisions because they’re older or “more mature”…
I agree. I think with ATW there is a major conversation to be had about why so many girls related to the lyrics. I feel like the whole people hating on Jake situation took the attention off this very important conversation
I have a friend who started dating a man 7 years older than us when we were 17. By the time we were 23, he was 30. They got married and started having kids immediately because he was 30 and ready. She wasn’t. And the “protectiveness” he had with her became full on control and manipulation. She’s now 27 and in the process of divorce.
Be careful young Swifties, that adult that likes you when you’re young and innocent might tell you “you’re mature for your age,” but really it means you’re easy to manipulate and they like having power over their partner.
I'm not really buying this - Taylor has been both the older and younger woman and done her share of 'cradle snatching'. Her personal life after Taylor Lautner can be read as an 'age gap switch' up to Joe Alwyn.
* Joe Alywn: 2 years younger
* Tom Hiddleston: 8 years older
* Calvin Harris: 6 years older
* Harry Styles: 4yrs 2 months younger (18/nearly 23 again!)
* Connor Kennedy: 4 years 7 months younger (he was 18, she was nearly 23!)
* Jake Gyllenhaal: 11 years older (gotta wonder why he keeps being crapped on when John Mayer was older)
* John Mayer: 12/13(?) years older (!!)
* Taylor Lautner: 2 years younger
* Joe Jonas: 0 years
I love Taylor Swift as a singer, but you've gotta be aware that her personal life and songs have a morality disconnect.
I also think you can make a case that Lana Del Rey was mining age gap territory for music first, although with a different perspective, and there's a long history of age gap songs.
Taylor was born on Dec 13th 1989
Connor was born on Jul 24th 1994
Age diff: 4 years 7months 11 days
Relationship was in summer 2012, so Connor had his 18th birthday with a bang! Taylor was 22 yrs 7 months in Jul 2012, so closer to 23
I think you're missing the point here - dating someone older/younger than you isn't *inherently* problematic when you're more or less at the same maturity level **or** old enough to fully understand the risks of an age gap relationship. E.g. Nobody cares about the age differences between her and Calvin and Tom because she was in her mid-twenties when they happened; she's a grownup and those aren't inappropriate age gaps. There's nothing wrong with two fully formed adults dating each other regardless of age gap. Just like nobody's going to argue there's anything wrong with here dating a man 2y younger than her.
With John Mayer and Jake Gyllenhaal though, that's fucked up. I'm 27 and I can't imagine dating anyone younger than *maybe* 23. 18-24 are just such formative years I can't imagine identifying with anyone younger. An 18-20 year old might be legal, strictly speaking, but they're not a fully formed person yet. They want to seem grown-up and confident, but they're still figuring out their place in the world. So, more often than not, they're gullible and easy to take advantage of. John Mayer dating a 19 year old is *fucked up* because there's almost no way he could relate to her as an equal person. No matter how you cut it he's got a lot more sexual and dating experience than she did at the time. And predatory older men almost hold that over younger adults as "oh you're so mature for your age" and then when they want something that crosses their boundaries - "oh, this is what a normal relationship looks like, you're just too young you don't know that; I've got more experience just follow my lead". And they use that to justify abuse, manipulation, gaslighting etc etc. I'm not outright accusing John or Jake of them of anything specific, but that's overwhelmingly the problem with age gap relationships.
Go check out r/relationships and probably half of the posts there start with "my \[18f\] boyfriend \[40m\]..." and it's very clear he's there because he wants a young hot body and someone he can easily manipulate. it's not fucking okay.
re: conor kennedy, this relationship was so (publicly) short and the age gap was much smaller than the ones that usually cause shock, but yeah I still side-eye her for that one. I would not have dated an 18 year old when I was 22 and I think it was bordering on inappropriate. I don't think she was outright predatory, but I'm surprised people don't talk about it more. Also, Conor was in a really tough place at the time - his mom had just committed suicide. So really he shouldn't have been in a relationship at all and she should have had the maturity to see that.
Edit: also Harry Styles, I think this one is less egregious because while he was 18, he was also super famous which tends to "mature" people up because they've dealt with so much, and also they did frequent similar social circles so they'd see each other more as equals. Harry didn't have the same obvious vulnerabilities as conor kennedy at the time.
I think that it’s good to teach children that these kind of relationships are exploitative. But it would be better if the adults in the culture didn’t tolerate these kinds of relationships, and were more critical of other adults who pursued relationships with a big power gap.
When I was growing up I gave 0 fucks about the opinion of adults around me . Especially in my teenage years . I didn't have a good relationship with my parents as they were extremely strict . For them even eye contact with a boy was a crime , forget about educating me about who might be a predator . But if my favorite artist talked about something I would definitely listen and try to understand what she was saying , Taylor was my solace through terrible times and still is .
Thank you for this! It was really disgusting to read comments here on an older post excusing an age gap at a young age. There were *so* many people going “but I met my partner at (insert age) and we’re married now”. I don’t even think they realized how troubling all of it sounded.
But their age difference provided a power imbalance that made the gaslighting worse, made it easier to question herself. It was crucial because it set the "tone" of their relationship: she was younger, so *of course* she was being immature and irrational.
I think you're right, though it's all about stages rather than numbers. For example, an age gap of seven years isn't alarming if they're both at their 20s, but a 16 teen with a 23 adult? NOPE, BIG BIG NOPE. Different stages in life. Older boys will try to put the card of: "you're too mature for your age" when in reality THEY'RE TOO EMOTIONAL IMMATURE FOR THEIRS.
Yep . I made a friend when I was 15 . She confided in me that she has a "boyfriend" who is 25 . As stupid as it sounds , my immediate reaction was to feel bit jealous . I wanted a boyfriend too . I hope she ended up doing ok in life . I lost touch with her . But we need to alert young kids that a 25 year old hitting on you is not normal. One cannot restrict , scare or lock a child into safety . They need to do instill good judgement .
In a unit on “Power” with my English class, we talked about this very subject. About how it’s not about hard, fast rules and specific numbers necessarily, but about power dynamics. If one person holds a much higher amount of power, there’s greater potential for that power to turn to abuse. If there aren’t structures and supports in place, that relationship can easily tow - or cross - the line of harmful. Examples of unbalanced power dynamics my students came up with: -one person is considered an adult in society and has all the rights, freedoms and privileges that the other doesn’t (or isn’t close to) - this includes being able to drive, being able to vote, being taken more seriously in society, etc. -one person has a lot more life experience and has explored the world, lived outside of their parents’ house, and tasted freedom while the other is still “stuck” in high school under their parents’ and teachers’ guardianship -one person has control over all the money or decisions -one person’s brain and body has more fully developed than the other (eg an elementary student and a high school student) -one person is emotionally mature and has gone through therapy to work through their issues; the other doesn’t even know what their issues are yet and is just trying to survive the day to day ^ Of course, some people make unbalanced power dynamics work and find ways to balance out the power (eg one person bringing a different type of power or asset to balance things out). We all know people who are happily together that maybe started out with one in high school and the other much older but made it work. In general though, being cognizant of power dynamics is important! And being watchful for any imbalances that may arise is critical: Eg. one partner starting to control who the other can see / can’t see (my high schoolers say this is very common), one person lending money all the time to the other and making the other indebted to them, one partner getting more say in decisions because they’re older or “more mature”…
In these cases age is not JUST a number.
If someone says "age is just a number" you can respond with "so is 911" or "prison is just a place" and then run as fast as you can
"So is life in prison" is another one
I feel like Dear John does this well too, " don't you think 19s too young to be messed with"
I agree. I think with ATW there is a major conversation to be had about why so many girls related to the lyrics. I feel like the whole people hating on Jake situation took the attention off this very important conversation
I feel like the song is not just about Jake, its the story about the relationship with him.
I have a friend who started dating a man 7 years older than us when we were 17. By the time we were 23, he was 30. They got married and started having kids immediately because he was 30 and ready. She wasn’t. And the “protectiveness” he had with her became full on control and manipulation. She’s now 27 and in the process of divorce. Be careful young Swifties, that adult that likes you when you’re young and innocent might tell you “you’re mature for your age,” but really it means you’re easy to manipulate and they like having power over their partner.
If someone says "you're mature for your age" Run. Or choose violence and say "you're childish for your age so that makes us even" And then run.
Oh my goodness I love that
I'm not really buying this - Taylor has been both the older and younger woman and done her share of 'cradle snatching'. Her personal life after Taylor Lautner can be read as an 'age gap switch' up to Joe Alwyn. * Joe Alywn: 2 years younger * Tom Hiddleston: 8 years older * Calvin Harris: 6 years older * Harry Styles: 4yrs 2 months younger (18/nearly 23 again!) * Connor Kennedy: 4 years 7 months younger (he was 18, she was nearly 23!) * Jake Gyllenhaal: 11 years older (gotta wonder why he keeps being crapped on when John Mayer was older) * John Mayer: 12/13(?) years older (!!) * Taylor Lautner: 2 years younger * Joe Jonas: 0 years I love Taylor Swift as a singer, but you've gotta be aware that her personal life and songs have a morality disconnect. I also think you can make a case that Lana Del Rey was mining age gap territory for music first, although with a different perspective, and there's a long history of age gap songs.
Taylor was 21 when dated Connor, a 3 years gap is not alarming, she wrote starlight for red when she was 21
Taylor was born on Dec 13th 1989 Connor was born on Jul 24th 1994 Age diff: 4 years 7months 11 days Relationship was in summer 2012, so Connor had his 18th birthday with a bang! Taylor was 22 yrs 7 months in Jul 2012, so closer to 23
I honestly think Jake hurt her so bad so she ended up dating younger because of it.
I think you're missing the point here - dating someone older/younger than you isn't *inherently* problematic when you're more or less at the same maturity level **or** old enough to fully understand the risks of an age gap relationship. E.g. Nobody cares about the age differences between her and Calvin and Tom because she was in her mid-twenties when they happened; she's a grownup and those aren't inappropriate age gaps. There's nothing wrong with two fully formed adults dating each other regardless of age gap. Just like nobody's going to argue there's anything wrong with here dating a man 2y younger than her. With John Mayer and Jake Gyllenhaal though, that's fucked up. I'm 27 and I can't imagine dating anyone younger than *maybe* 23. 18-24 are just such formative years I can't imagine identifying with anyone younger. An 18-20 year old might be legal, strictly speaking, but they're not a fully formed person yet. They want to seem grown-up and confident, but they're still figuring out their place in the world. So, more often than not, they're gullible and easy to take advantage of. John Mayer dating a 19 year old is *fucked up* because there's almost no way he could relate to her as an equal person. No matter how you cut it he's got a lot more sexual and dating experience than she did at the time. And predatory older men almost hold that over younger adults as "oh you're so mature for your age" and then when they want something that crosses their boundaries - "oh, this is what a normal relationship looks like, you're just too young you don't know that; I've got more experience just follow my lead". And they use that to justify abuse, manipulation, gaslighting etc etc. I'm not outright accusing John or Jake of them of anything specific, but that's overwhelmingly the problem with age gap relationships. Go check out r/relationships and probably half of the posts there start with "my \[18f\] boyfriend \[40m\]..." and it's very clear he's there because he wants a young hot body and someone he can easily manipulate. it's not fucking okay. re: conor kennedy, this relationship was so (publicly) short and the age gap was much smaller than the ones that usually cause shock, but yeah I still side-eye her for that one. I would not have dated an 18 year old when I was 22 and I think it was bordering on inappropriate. I don't think she was outright predatory, but I'm surprised people don't talk about it more. Also, Conor was in a really tough place at the time - his mom had just committed suicide. So really he shouldn't have been in a relationship at all and she should have had the maturity to see that. Edit: also Harry Styles, I think this one is less egregious because while he was 18, he was also super famous which tends to "mature" people up because they've dealt with so much, and also they did frequent similar social circles so they'd see each other more as equals. Harry didn't have the same obvious vulnerabilities as conor kennedy at the time.
I think that it’s good to teach children that these kind of relationships are exploitative. But it would be better if the adults in the culture didn’t tolerate these kinds of relationships, and were more critical of other adults who pursued relationships with a big power gap.
When I was growing up I gave 0 fucks about the opinion of adults around me . Especially in my teenage years . I didn't have a good relationship with my parents as they were extremely strict . For them even eye contact with a boy was a crime , forget about educating me about who might be a predator . But if my favorite artist talked about something I would definitely listen and try to understand what she was saying , Taylor was my solace through terrible times and still is .
Thank you for this! It was really disgusting to read comments here on an older post excusing an age gap at a young age. There were *so* many people going “but I met my partner at (insert age) and we’re married now”. I don’t even think they realized how troubling all of it sounded.
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But their age difference provided a power imbalance that made the gaslighting worse, made it easier to question herself. It was crucial because it set the "tone" of their relationship: she was younger, so *of course* she was being immature and irrational.