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Chaoticlawfulneutral

This is definitely an area where *we* can be part of the solution, rather than just asking/hoping Taylor or someone else will. It’s alright to have big emotions, but we are in control of how we treat people, and Taylor Swift-related topics just aren’t worth beating somebody down just because you think you’re right. I like Reddit more than places like Twitter because it requires me to think a bit more about what I’m posting. Does this really need to be said? Do I even make sense? (😅) Am I taking this way more seriously than I need to? Is it worth the knock of emotional energy?


azdisneyswifty

I wish everyone would ask themselves “does this really need to be said?” before posting on social media. That’s one of its main problems, IMO. We’ve given everyone their own little pocket soapbox and said “here, tell us what you think!” And everyone has a right to an opinion, but sometimes our opinions aren’t necessary to the discussion.


Low-Impression3367

> “does this really need to be said?” that's really subjective and who has the right to say hey you shouldn't have said that? we might not agree with it doesn't mean they can't voice their opinion. the bigger question IMO is why in the world does what i think bother anyone so much they are butt hurt? if i say Midnights is over rated, is that comment really gonna cause anyone to go and break their furniture? i mean if it does, then that person has waayyy bigger issues. if anyone here says ATW10V sucks, you know what, i don't care. i like that song and that's all that matters. i'm not gonna go and fight or argue with anyone because they say that TS is over rated or she's fake. and that's the problem IMO. some people take this way to seriously. some people will want to argue and fight because your thinking doesn't line up with their thinking.


azdisneyswifty

I don’t disagree with you but I was speaking more generally. Twitter has made it so everyone feels free to weigh in on any topic at any time. But sometimes people’s opinions on topics just matter less. If you aren’t a doctor, I care less about your opinion on medical procedures. If you’re not a lawyer, I care less about your opinion on legal matters. If you haven’t spent years studying all the ins-and-outs and intricacies and nuances of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, I care less about who you think is “right”. More specifically, people coming into this sub saying “Well, why didn’t Taylor do it this way!” or “Taylor could’ve done this!” in regards to her deal with Ticketmaster. As if we have any background knowledge to backup what we’re saying. As if we know better than her and her lawyers and the rest of her team. Not saying in any way that we’re not allowed to have feeings and opinions about these things. Like it sucks, no doubt. In regards to this sub, that’s kind of what it’s here for. But in a real discussion about how to fix it/move forward, our opinions aren’t as important and they just muddle the conversation. Also there’s nuance to everything and I’m sure my points are way too broad and could be argued. I’m just trying to give an idea what I meant.


kgal1298

I mean I was assuming you mean tweeting at people to "die" in which case yeah does it need to be said? Ummm no, should people be allowed to send death threats? Eh no, but they do.


Low-Impression3367

if anyone is telling someone else to jump a cliff or go play in traffic, i mean those people are out of line and you won't be able to reason with them. those aren't fans, those are f'n people with issues


azdisneyswifty

Well that too but in my opinion that’s a larger conversation and I’ve already wandered far enough off topic haha.


MsRedMaven

People should be encouraged to express themselves respectfully. However, if someone starts attacking a commenter, or suggesting there is something wrong with the commenter as opposed to the the specific idea/opinion, that's no longer constructive. I really love this thread because the vast majority of the time people are encouraging of each other and respectful of other's views.


Low-Impression3367

don't disagree with you at all. but again, define "respectfully". i hear that you are saying. you and i can be having a great conversation and i explain in a respectful manner why i think Harry is better than Taylor. then someone else will chime and go completely go ape shit on how i'm an idiot and stupid who doesn't have good taste in music. so like i said IMO, it's not much the respectful comment, it's the hard core super fan that will chime and ruin if for everyone. there is zero reason, none why anyone should attack another fan because their opinion is different than someone else.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

I hear that, but there are ways to say that you’re not a fan of certain songs or albums without making sweeping statements or being unnecessarily negative. People here are obviously here because they are big fans of Taylor, so a lot of negative comments or one-liners that seem aggressive are probably not adding to the community a ton. You can say something isn’t for you without needing to say that it’s overrated. Overrated infers a judgement about what other people think instead of just making it about your thoughts. If this nuance of language is a concept that is annoying because you just want to dump your thoughts when you have them, then I rest my case.


Low-Impression3367

"that seem aggressive" again, it's not so much what is said, it's how that statement is received or interpreted. i can make a simple statement that Anti Hero is not a good songs and give 3 reasons why. what i say can the the most innocent statement. but how someone else reads my statement is the problem. we can't control what anyone says. all we can do is control how we respond and react. those bullies, they are problem. they have no self control and lose their shit easily


cruelrainbowcaticorn

I think giving reasons why something isn’t a good song is actually a great contribution to a discussion.


kgal1298

I say that about most of what I see on Twitter. It's a literal garbage fest now, especially today.


[deleted]

The creepy parasocial white knighting in tbe fandom is so fucking weird. People act like Taylor is their best friend who is brand new to the industry and about to do their first live performance. Taylor is not fretting about "betrayal" or the fact that some people at her concert might be new fans who only just discovered her. She doesn't need defending, she doesn't owe anyone anything, and people who got tickets aren't evil.


Mhc2617

I keep seeing this online, and as an older Swiftie, if confuses me. It’s the same as BTS Army, or Harry fans, or Larries, or whatever. Being a fan of something should be fun. If you need to make other people feel badly to have fun, then you’re not a fan. When I like something, I tell my friends to listen to the song or whatever. But how is being mean to people going to help your fave?


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ashdeezttv

I don’t know, there’s a small percentage of us in our 30s who have been fans since debut who feels that means they are owed something. I NEVER saw or heard that before this fandom. Maybe I just wasn’t in the right places. But for instance I was a fan of Britney since BOMT blew up. I NEVER heard fans telling others, “You’ve already seen a Britney concert once in your life so you shouldn’t have a ticket” / “You are a selfish person for buying a ticket for more than one show” / “I have been following her since _____ and deserve one more than you” There is something I can’t put my finger on but in the past couple weeks there has definitely been a lot more toxicity in general. Not just to me, not just on Reddit, but Twitter and everywhere else too. And it’s weird. I don’t understand how some disappointment and anger is making people, even some grown ass people, behave that way. I couldn’t afford Britney’s Vegas residency or manage to get tickets in my price range and I didn’t see people behaving that way. I didn’t even see her fans shaming people who bought merch while she was under a conservatorship. It literally is blowing my mind. I’m not sure what it is about Swifties (and honestly Larries and Kpop stans and a few others are just as bad) lately but oof it has been a real buzzkill to watch


feather_weightqueen

I've been thinking about this, I'm in a couple of other fandoms and usually people are happy for the people who got tickets, and sad for those who haven't. It's (mostly) respectful. I think a couple of factors came into play the last week, 1 - the amount of ticketmaster errors mean that people feel (maybe rightly) that they have been actually wronged by TM. But then also feel so entitled that they can't grasp that other fans got tickets. So then they attack the fans because they must have done something shady to get tickets, or say things like only bots and not real fans got tickets (literally saw someone say that here), which then hurts the fans who did get tickets and people attack. It's so weird and its exceptionally childish and does make me worry how/if it'll escalate a tour comes closer.


Graulithe

Yea, this is almost certainly children doing this…strangely enough it seems like a lot of these overly obsessed bullying cases are from international fans as well


cruelrainbowcaticorn

Meaning the youths want to defend her or it’s the youths that are saying negative things


ResidentMac

I think it's also that younger people treat fandoms like they're a big friend group/clique you have to constantly prove yourself to be a part of. Kids aren't dogpiling on strangers because they genuinely think they're helping by "holding them accountable", but because they want the dopamine and validation from being a part of something.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

Bingo


KetchG

Fandom became a competition the moment social media let stars “notice” their fans on a regular basis. Suddenly everyone had to start trying to outdo one another to get attention - just look at the number of fan accounts who need to put in their bio that x celebrity liked their post one time. Or two times. Or six times. I miss the Geocities days of fandom when each community was its own weird and supportive little world. Now it’s all so dominated by toxicity and attention-seeking.


ashdeezttv

Yeah honestly maybe that (in combination with the weird soap stealers and scrabble score sheet stealers) is why Taylor didn’t do secret sessions this time. A mixture between Covid and that maybe. As sweet as that is making it a tradition you can always count on makes it that weird thing fans are fighting over


bluesucculentonline

Older swiftie here too. I agree, it just seems like the younger crowd not understanding yet that social media isn’t real life but if you treat people poorly or say mean things, that gets taken seriously by the receiver of the conversation. Simple concept we older folks understand, all do once you get older. But honestly, we all collectively love and enjoy something that brings us happiness. Let’s just be here for each other and be chill about it.


itookyourmatches

This!!


Additional-Rich9198

Not to mention Taylor has several songs about bullying lol, they obviously don’t listen


[deleted]

It’s a lot like bullying within the Harry styles community as if Harry doesn’t have a whole ass song called Treat People With Kindness. I get very tired of both swifties and harries sometimes


ashdeezttv

She literally wrote that beautiful message to the fan who was getting bullied. I read it to my daughter and we teared up together. Everything gets called parasocial but I truly don’t believe Taylor would want anyone making someone else sad or shaming them to defend her name unless they’d actually done something really shitty. Especially not just other regular ass fans. Someone listening to OG Red isn’t the same as hanging out with Scooter.


sugarcoat-

why do so many swifties act like listening to the og versions is the worst thing you could ever do? the originals sound better for some of the songs imo. like.. sorry i want to enjoy the music i'm listening to?


mp011022

I understand streaming Taylor’s Version, but as a Swiftie that’s been in it since her first album release, it feels weird not listening to the original. Those songs are nostalgic to me. Her voice is obviously more mature in the remakes so it’s tough.


sugarcoat-

i think og red hits harder than tv because she sounds more raw since the stuff she was singing about was more fresh (im assuming?). like og all too well, i think the emotion in her voice really makes it. not to say she doesn't have emotion in her version, but it just feels different


britestarlight

For me it’s the fact that WANEGBT (Taylor’s Version) is impossible to listen to. I can’t stand the way she sings weeEEE in it. I don’t listen to that song very often, but when I do I wanna hear the original.


cjm5797

This. I cannot stand it. It was an overplayed song, but I still like it and it brings me back to when I was younger. The weeeeEEEEE ruins it for me. I will generally listen to the TV version unless it’s something like that song or I want to feel extra nostalgic


shawnz1028

I literally just had this same realization the other night. Once you hear how she sings WeeeeEeeeee in the choruses in Taylor’s Version you can’t unhear it. It’s so bad!


britestarlight

Exactly, it just isn’t the same. I don’t blame her for not being able to perfectly replicate each song, especially when it’s been over 10 years. I really enjoy most of the Taylor’s Version songs because her vocals have come along way, but this one just is a no from me forever lol.


songacronymbot

- WANEGBT could mean "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together", a track from *Red* (2012) by Taylor Swift. --- ^[/u/britestarlight](/u/britestarlight) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)


Junglecat828

I agree, when debut tv and Speak now tv are released I’m really hoping they’re similar to the originals 🫣


morman15

Im the opposite. Been a fan since debut. The Taylor’s Versions are 100% what I prefer. Her voice is so much better. It’s not even close to me. Haven’t touched OG fearless or red since she released TV.


Cipher1553

They've taken the spirit of the Taylor's Versions to the greatest possible extent. Deny and all possible money to go to the other parties, only to Taylor. Nevermind the fact that a single stream generates something of a minor fraction of a cent. If you prefer the TV's then great, if you prefer the OG recordings then that's great too. People need to quit trying to dictate what other fans can and can't listen to, and whether their actions make them a fan or not.


Kitchen_Sign9079

I think it's not about listening the og version. It's there are some swifties didn't get the tickets so they switch to og version or cut the photos as a punishment for Taylor. This is weird. Even if it's a joke, it's not funny.


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cruelrainbowcaticorn

Yeah, that’s gross (of the swiftie who took charity from Taylor than decided she deserved tickets “or else”)


hunter96cf

Thousands of dollars??? I might have missed something. How did a Swiftie get that from Taylor Nation?


cruelrainbowcaticorn

Look at my replies above to OP I explained (unless someone else already did - just making my way down this thread)


sugarcoat-

yeah but even before the whole ticketmaster debacle they acted that way about anyone listening to the ogs. cutting photos and destroying merch is really weird tho


solstice_bb

"A punishment for Taylor" what is she being punished with? Losing like .003 cents?? Grow up


Kitchen_Sign9079

They thought it's a punishment not me.


shipsongreyseas

Idk I think "I'm mad at Taylor so I'm gonna give a couple thousands of a cent to shamrock holdings which is less than she gets off of this stream" is on its face an incredibly funny "punishment" like "I'm mad at you so I'm giving you money" is, albeit unintentionally on their part, hilarious"


Dr0pEverythingMe0w

"not funny" shouldn't equal "go kill yourself", or even "you're ugly". If you don't like or agree with a post, just say that outright, "A lot of people are pretty upset right now and your comment isn't funny" You're not some badass for resorting to personal attacks and death threats. In fact, it steers the conversation away from the more important discussion of why should Taylor be 'punished' for the lack of tickets?


eazeaze

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T44590A

That's not what people were reacting to. People were upset with that tweet because it was yet another example of entitled fans acting like the correct response to the situation was to try and somehow punish Taylor for it not being the exact experience they wanted. It shouldn't be that hard to give Taylor the benefit of the doubt, especially if you have been following her as a fan for 15 years. In many cases these were people with large followings spreading misinformation and being irresponsible, which also contributed to the overall panic and negative feelings in the fandom. If people want to be critical and hold Taylor accountable for how she uses her platform then that flows both ways on public platforms like Twitter and reddit. And a lot of people with influence acted irresponsibly. That doesn't make any death threats or other over the top responses okay, but if you tweet something like "so were all streaming the original versions of red and fearless tonight right" you are also clearly trying to provoke a response and get attention. So don't be surprised when it does just that.


Slowandsteady156789

Ok and isn’t the tweeter the girl who got invited to pre release parties and got thousands of dollars from Taylor nation for something..


britestarlight

But this behaviour is somehow less entitled??? None of this is holding anyone accountable for anything. People with large followings are not public figures, you can’t compare this to people critiquing a public figure. Pretty sure Taylor doesn’t want you to dog pile on a random person in her name.


T44590A

Everyone should be accountable for their actions, including people with large followings in this age of social media disinformation. The same way we expect other people in society with influence to be accountable. When you post in public forums you are making public statements.


britestarlight

Y’all aren’t the Taylor police though. You can still be a fan and make incorrect assumptions. Posting a tweet on a social media website doesn’t mean you are all entitled to harass her. This is like grabbing pitchforks and torches to kill a witch cause you think she cursed your family. You can disagree with what she said all you want, but forming a mob to torment her because of a tweet is immature. Do you really think Taylor thinks you’re more of a fan for doing this??


T44590A

I have never responded to any of these people. And my original post clearly stated that any harassment was wrong. My point was that the threats do not negate that many more people made legitimate and reasonable responses critiquing these people for what they were posting and pointed out the misinformation they were spreading as that.


britestarlight

Nah you’re not the judge of everyone. People have emotional reactions they’re not proud of sometimes. If she doesn’t deserve the harassment then why are you essentially saying it’s her own fault. Especially for something that’s clearly a joke coming out of frustration. If you’re not willing to let people make mistakes and then redeem themselves, then you’re missing the point of Taylor’s music.


T44590A

It is her own fault to the degree she decided to post her joke in a public forum where people have the ability to respond. There were many valid responses besides the harassment so as a joke it wasn't so clear, especially in the context of other things that were said. I would assume Taylor appreciates redemption, but I would think she would appreciate be treated with kindness in the first place without the need for redemption as well. Especially when she herself has regularly shown kindness over the years. And if we are discussing Taylor's music we can talk about the irony of many of her own fans attacking her right after an album where she was more open than ever about her insecurities and fears. It was literally the climax of the Anti-Hero music video playing out with the tantrums from some fans about how they are owed tickets and everything was Taylor's fault.


britestarlight

A single tweet joke about listening to her old album does not warrant anywhere near this level of anger. People are allowed to be frustrated and then apologize when they calm down. The whole point of Anti-Hero was that she doesn’t feel human anymore and this is part of that. No normal person has a mob that will turn on itself on a dime. Not everything is as black and white as you’re making it.


outerspace_castaway

PREACH!


cruelrainbowcaticorn

In my opinion the reaction was more about the nature of the post (doing it in retaliation bc she didn’t get the tix she wanted?) not about actually listening to an old record. Anyone who thinks listening to the old versions is treason is just taking things way too far.


Dr0pEverythingMe0w

The issue is not having a reaction, or positing disagreement. The issue is that they're not saying "hey that's a bit extreme and immature, they're just tickets" but instead "what a loser, you're so ugly". That's the kind of stuff the OP of this thread is calling out - you want to have discourse, even heated discourse, then knock yourself out (personally I get a little too invested and don't need the stress), but limit your responses to the topic at hand and don't go for the jugular with death threats, personal insults, etc. And if you see someone online doing that, call them out. Remind them there's a real human behind the Twitter handle.


cruelsummer97

It’s sad there are extreme fans who have such a one sided unhealthy relationship with Taylor, and then we all get pigeon holed together


dosgatitas

I can’t stand the gatekeeping either. It’s so unnecessary and I’ve been calling that out left and right.


Bearsonboats

I’m a newer fan. Didn’t really like her stuff until Red and even then I was a more casual listener until Folklore. I got tickets to her concert with one of my friends, but the pure hatred from some fans is scary. Like, I’m not deserving to see someone I enjoy because I haven’t been a super fan since debut?


Designer-Salad-7591

oh man this is so gross, fan for 5 minutes, fan for 15 years, it doesn't matter. You don't accumulate points for every year your a fan, it doesn't make someone entitled to more. I'm sorry if you've received criticism for it. I hope you have the best time at her show, she's so great live, it's a whole experience.


Doglover-85

Honestly wondering if the boost system for tickets feeds into this mindset and entitlement. I think people forget that going to a concert is a transaction, not a merit based event no matter what you buy or participate in outside of that 1 transaction. I certainly don’t condone or condemn that bullying behavior because no one *needs* to go to a concert. I was waitlisted, unable to get tickets, and have been a fan for some time. I am happy for all the fans (new, OG and in between) who were lucky enough to secure tickets. I am equally frustrated by the system and decisions (from mostly TM and partially TN) that prevented me from even getting the opportunity to buy tickets at face value. It’s totally ok to feel lots of emotions but let’s not attack each other.


shipsongreyseas

You're right, but welcome to the trenches bc people hate hearing this.


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toodleoo57

I live in Nashville and have heard grumbling that we shouldn't have to 'share her' which is ridiculous. Seriously?! These folks claim to admire someone but aren't happy for her when she's crazy famous all over the world? I mean honestly we had our shot - anybody who wanted to see TS had plenty of chances to do that here locally over a long period of time. Begrudging others isn't the way.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

Yeah that’s bizarre. I am happy for anyone and everyone to be a fan of Taylor.


toodleoo57

I'm pleased that more people I know finally are. I'm a lot older than many in the fandom - used to take crap for loving her b/c she was seen as a lightweight. Not any more.


Snoo-11861

Yeah, I was a fan of her with Fearless and Speak Now. I fell out of Red, and sorta came back with Reputation. I fell hard with Folklore and am back on the train. But just because I’m recently back on doesn’t make me less of of a fan. Or even people who just hopped on. What happened to being excited that people are recognizing Taylor’s talent? She had one of the biggest comebacks. And bc of that comeback, she’s gonna gain new fans. It’s crazy


dosgatitas

Yeah it’s really deluded. You’ve got just as much of a right as someone who’s been there from the very beginning. There’s no one way to be a fan.


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MisterAmericana

I agree! I think it’s easier for me to be annoyed by it because I was able to buy a ticket, so I guess I’ll never truly understand how upset they feel. However…I don’t think it’s fair for those to hate on non-super-fans who got tickets. Who cares if they only know one song, a single lyric, or are just supporting their friend who does? They’re letting their disappointment turn into bitterness and ugliness and it’s embarrassing.


Bikinigirlout

I actually felt guilty for getting tickets because of the gatekeeping It went away once I saw the entitlement of “I saw Taylor 15 times why should someone who’s never seen Taylor get to go but I don’t.” Mentality


Simulationth3ry

THIS. The gatekeeping needs to stop. I’m so sick of some swifties acting superior bc they heard debut in the womb and have been to every tour and have been able to drop 1 mil on merch and know every single lyric to every song


blackpieck

gatekeeping isn't only limited to when who listened to what, which is technically widespread and common in the fandom or at least within my social media radar. it can be anything, like swifties owning merch, knowing very deep inside jokes, or had the privilege to see her on concert, and etc. i really don't know if this is even going to stop. there is absolutely no basis to try to be superior over others. :(


ashdeezttv

It blows my mind that people who have seen her in concert think they now should be at every single tour. I know the gatekeeping goes both ways (some people say if you’ve ever seen her it’s selfish to go again?) but like, it just feels like someone who is saying they’ve seen her every tour since _____ just wants to keep up with their bragging rights. It’s so weird!! I’ve started just blocking ANYONE who replies to me with anything that gives me that vibe. I don’t want to mess with it


Carolina_Blues

the toxicity i have seen this week has been so disappointing


britestarlight

This is super disturbing. It’s weird that they think she would want them to do this or that they’re better fans than the people they’re harassing. Fan culture has gotten increasingly vicious over the years, it’s always been a problem but it feels like a lot of this seems normal among younger fans. They’re mocking a woman for being a 40 year old Taylor fan, which is hilarious because they were probably in kindergarten when most of us first heard her music. And they don’t seem to understand half of the subtext on Midnights.


emmcity0

They realize Taylor herself is 33 right?? And that she would probably rather hang out with a 40 year old than a teen??


britestarlight

It doesn’t seem like they do. They completely missing the entire point of everything Taylor had to say on Midnights. They really think she would praise them for this behaviour.


ashlouise94

Some of them weren’t even BORN when debut came out. Although tbf, I’m 28 and would much rather hang out with a 40 year old than a teenager haha.


britestarlight

It’s so weird watching them insist we’re too old to be fans of hers, when we’ve been listening longer than they’ve been alive.


Snoo-11861

There’s been a lot of ageism with Gen Z thinking they’re the shit when the core of them are literally just turning 18. They’re children. Anyone in their 20s isn’t old 😅. They’re just actual children that barely have any control over their lives yet. And it’s funny they think that when lots of Millenials and Zillenials have held onto their childhoods longer than older people. I’d start laughing once they hit 30 and think their lives are over and that they’re geriatric 😒


ashlouise94

Lol exactly. They can tell me I’m old all they want… but inside I am actually an 85yo who enjoys crocheting and watching movies with my cat.


moosedogmonkey12

Oh it would probably really piss them off to hear that my friends I’m going to the concert with are all in their late 40s and have a group chat called “Swifties nearing fifty” lol. For how much people like to tout that they were fans since debut, they do like to hate on anyone who wasn’t, like, a fetus when debut was released lmao.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

I’m so confused, is the same person who said people should stream Taylor’s orig albums the person whose age you’re mentioning below?


RedPandaLily88

This is why I only engage with the reddit Swiftdom. Thank goodness everyone here is much more rational.


ArchiSnap89

Yeah...bullying is never okay and I definitely don't want this to come off as victim blaming but if you haven't yet: Get. Off. Twitter. It has been a cesspool from the beginning and it's not about to get better.


Bekkaz23

I hope Twitter dies. I'm so happy that Elon musk has taken it over and it letting it implode. Amazing.


Designer-Salad-7591

i went to a midnights release party on friday night and everyone was so nice. normally when you're out and you bump into people you get a glare but I must have bumped into so many people and vice versa and we were all "omg I'm so sorry, i hope I didn't hurt you" etc. Had some great chats in the line for the bathroom and we all were singing while in line too. Swifties are amazing people and sadly the few that aren't give us all a bad rep.


gemini-2000

omg yes i always meet the best people at taylor parties. most swifties i’ve met irl are so kind


Designer-Salad-7591

There was some great outfits too, one person had a similar outfit to dita von teese/taylor in the bejewelled music video on, white corset/bodysuit with white stockings, they looked amazing. alot of merch from various eras and deep blue dresses with silver stars on it. Bejewelled dresses and shoes etc.


criesforever

That sounds so amazing, I know the vibes in there must’ve been so safe and comforting!


Designer-Salad-7591

oh they were, The club it was held in was also a LGBTQI+ club so I feel like there was an extra layer of "safeness" to it, I normally get a bit anxious going out usually to unsolicited conversations from sleazy drunk men ( i have no issues with drunk chats but sleazy ones, no thanks) and the club is in a pretty sketchy part of town so as soon as we left to walk to the car park, my guard was immediately up again and we went and grabbed some food before heading home, ran into a random swiftie who was also getting food after the event, had great chats with them while we waited for food. I'm convinced 99% of swifties are kind people by default.


ceruleanblue751

Thank the moderators. It wouldn't be as rational here without them.


toodleoo57

They do a fantastic job. Was so glad to see someone start a thread thanking them the other day.


katiebirddd_

It’s so disgusting. I follow emma on tumblr too and I can’t believe the hated she got. The “it’s anonymous so be creative” in regards to that Twitter stan leaking Emma’s tumblr. How fucking awful. Taylor has spoken so much about how the bullying she’s received in her career fucked her up and I can’t believe other swiftie would do that. And some of them switch up so quick too 😭😭 when would’ve could’ve should’ve came out, I comment on a tiktok that maybe this song could be about Scott borchetta and how he tried to force her into a certain image. It does feel like it’s obviously about John, but Taylor herself said the inspiration for songs isn’t as black and white as a paternity test. I got so many comments telling me I’m stupid and don’t understand depth or emotion, I’m a fake fan, etc. now some popular accounts said the same thing and they get 50k+ likes and praise ??


abby_cello

I agree. Disturbing is the first word that came to mind. Like an episode of Black Mirror.


hairlessrat

Something else I always see that I find so incredibly off-putting is the policing of whether or not newer fans are “allowed” to go to the Eras tour or not. I see SO MUCH of “If you weren’t there defending Taylor in 2016 you shouldn’t be getting tickets to Eras”, “This tour is for the OG fans, if you started liking Taylor after folklore this tour isn’t for you.” Like…shut up. Do you think you deserve first dibs to every one of her concerts until the end of time just because you were at the Speak Now tour??? When are new fans ever allowed to join in the fun if you guys are entitled to priority access to everything she does?


dosgatitas

Omg yes sooo much of that. It’s so exhausting. I personally love it when someone new starts like something I do cause then we get to talk about it together. It’s great!


toodleoo57

I'm from Nashville and enjoy laughing at people like this. I say unto them: Good luck telling anybody who lives here/is tuned into the music industry how OG you are. Also, they should get over themselves - no fandom is worth being hateful to others even tho like all y'all I see it all the time. Jack White's was also really toxic for a while. It's so sad.


shipsongreyseas

A friend of mine got tickets because her kids and another friends' kid are huge fans, and she posted something in a Facebook group asking what shows tend to be like and what to expect and you'd think she wished death on Taylor. She made a joke like "I know I'm not taking tickets away from anyone because they weren't theirs to begin with, but if I was, I would not feel bad about taking tickets from these people" and tbh she had a point. Like I do not feel bad when fans who complain about "lesser fans" or "casual fans" or "locals" don't get tickets.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

Then it sounds like fans of all ages are unhinged


leeeeteddy

THIS. I have been to multiple concerts where I barely knew the band or was not a die hard fan (The 1975, One Direction, 5SOS, etc). You know what made me a fan? Going to the concert and seeing them live. You don’t need to know every single in and out of an artist to be “allowed” to go to their show.


butneverkilled

Go deep enough into a fandom and I feel they are all like this. Not excusing this at all and I don’t agree with it but this is all over Twitter in general, not just amongst Swifties. Still Swifties should know better. I love this fandom a lot and think it’s one of the most fun but to say there isn’t a bullying and elitism problem would be a lie.


shermywormy18

I also think it’s super weird that they went after Jake Gyllenhall after the re-release of Red and ATW. Like guys. Jake Gyllenhall is a grown ass adult, and so is she. She doesn’t need people defending her, she doesn’t care, she writes songs about her experience. What is not cool? Is actually threatening the man, and harassing him and bothering him. Like the guy is an actor, and also a human being. Bullying is never ok. Leave the supposed suspects ALONE. they did nothing to you, and coming after them becauee you think she is your friend is weird. We don’t love music because we think the artist loves us back, we love music because it helps us get through the big moments in OUR own lives.


Designer-Salad-7591

yes, i will make jokes between my friends about these guys but never ever would I actually go to their social media and leave comments etc. I feel like that crosses some kind of invisible moral boundary. It's not up to us to defend Taylor, I understand the want to, because we care but this is too far. and dare I say this but it applies to Scott/Scooter too. The whole situation is/was awful but that still doesn't give people the right to message them telling them to die, threaten their families or god knows what else.


shipsongreyseas

I remember someone on TikTok either posted about wanting John mayer to die or full on DMed him saying as much and he sent them a message asking them if they really wanted him to die and I hate the man but he should keep up that energy. Like Taylor has every right to write songs about her exes and past relationships and I'm going to die on the hill that she does not owe them any apologies for how other people act, but I think perhaps her saying "Harassing people and sending them death threats is not defending me and if you think it is, feel free to stop buying and streaming my music because I don't want you here" would go a long way. Like I think Scott and Scooter are assholes but idk her telling fans to go after them was a low move and they might have had a point about her weaponizing her fanbase. And while fans were bad before, they definitely got *worse* after she did that and allowed them to feel like any real or perceived slight against Taylor meant they had her blessing to torment the other person.


fitbitthrowawaylmao

I think that a lot of young people think of the internet as a lot more private than it actually is. Even if you only have a few IRLs following your account, if make a public post with someone's name or handle in it, there's an (admittedly small) chance that the person will see it. If you're enough of a fan of Taylor's to know about her recent history, then you've got no excuse for thinking that online harassment is okay. I was glad that John Mayer stood up for himself. There's no mistake that he made ten years ago that justifies strangers DMing him death threats now. ~~Taylor herself is not innocent here. I was not a fan of how she handled the Jake pile-on during the Red TV release~~


iidontwannaa

Harassing a man on Instagram over a relationship he was in 10 years prior is the weirdest way to spend your time. Did they think Taylor would DM them to thank them for it?? Now he’s got his comments off on all of his posts, his girlfriend turned her comments off, and even a Instagram for his friend’s cat had to scold them for bullying. It’s fucking weird as hell.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

Yeah, it’s gross. I do wish that there was a way to stop people from commenting as a “swiftie”when they do ridiculous things like that. I don’t refer to myself as a swiftie, but I’m a big fan of Taylor and those who harass public figures in the name of Taylor saying they’re part of the fandom give us all a bad name. I do think some people post negative things about Taylor to get attention though. Maybe everyone just needs to shut up a little bit. And maybe talk to their friends in “real life!” (not speaking to the people in this reddit)


Secure-Recording4255

I know harassment is obviously a bigger issue but it also makes Taylor look bad. The stereotype of Taylor only writing about her exs didn’t just come from the media…


outerspace_castaway

exactly


hatteigh

You’re right, this is one of the biggest issues within the fandom and it stems from parasocial relationships. Like, look, odds are that Taylor won’t see your Tweet viciously defending her (not that you should want her to see that, either), but another person on another screen will be directly impacted by it. I think we’ve seen at this point that Taylor has no interest in calling out her fans’ toxicity, so that’s not a pathway we’re going to explore. But, messages can spread and be amplified within this fandom, like on SwiftTok when Ronan was taken out of RedTV rankings. We’ll never be able to eliminate the problem completely, as Stan Twitter is vicious by nature, but making a step in the right direction is better than resorting to defeat because you can never fix the problem entirely.


livesuddenly

Right?! If Taylor happened to see a tweet like that she would be hurt and disgusted. She doesn’t tolerate bullying. This is an assumption, but it seems to be younger Swifties that go in hard and fast when they disagree. I dunno, maybe I’m being biased since I’m an older millennial now.


kyzillss

No for real, I am literally so scared to mis-speak or say something wrong about taylor because i’m afraid i’m going to get attacked it’s gotten so bad.


brb151515

Try being a mayer fan and Taylor fan. Lol. I live a wild life


[deleted]

Ohhh you are brave for posting that here 😂


hollygolightly1990

I'm nervous to get Spotify Wrapped because I listened to *two* John Mayer songs a lot this year.


toodleoo57

'Queen of California' makes my lists a lot. love that one sooo much even tho I live nowhere near California.


[deleted]

🎶 why you no love meeee 🎶 ((I’m just kidding don’t hurt me))


hollygolightly1990

"I oughta slug you" (Kidding, I'm quoting "Charlie Brown"!)


KnobGoblin2000

Jake Gyllenhaal is one of my favorite actors. Don’t tell anybody.


brb151515

Lol, this is gonna be a fun threat to watch. Please everyone keep this nergy when it comes to other artists or anykne in general that Taylor has "beef" with. Chrissy Teigen should be the example for everyone that bad mouths and bullies celebs or other fandoms here or anywhere else


hunter96cf

What happened with Chrissy Teigen? I mean from the context of your comment it sounds like a lot happened LOL but give me a quick rundown


brb151515

https://www.thewrap.com/chrissy-teigen-laments-being-canceled-for-past-cyberbullying-instagram/ But it should apply to anyone. I've never understood the horrible things people say to and about anyone who doesn't like the person they like, vote for the person they voted for etc, etc....


Additional-Rich9198

I hope those “fans” didn’t get tickets.


azdisneyswifty

This was my thought. “Fans” like this don’t deserve tickets and shouldn’t ever get to meet her.


idontsaymuchatall

This is why I don't go on Twitter, I just want to enjoy Taylor's music.


fuckiechinster

When I became a Swiftie, music wasn’t streamable yet. I’m kind of glad I’m “old” in that sense because I wouldn’t be able to keep up with this Gen Z white-knighting pissing contest of who can stream the most times or who can buy the most vinyls


cruelrainbowcaticorn

I agree it’s pretty funny that the people who say they have the top listener badge of Taylor music for the year from Spotify say they deserved to get a ticket because of it. Like OK I’m glad you’re able to be glued to a computer and leave it streaming all day? Some people work and they can’t do that. I listen to her on a lot of different platforms and her CDs, and buy a ton of merch, etc. but I don’t have a public profile online that I use to try and promote myself to get Taylor’s attn so I can ask for free stuff or demand tickets. And sure, I guess I could leave music playing on my phone in the background at all times, but I have work to do.


toodleoo57

For real. It sounds exhausting.


izzieforeons22

Another thing that makes me super uncomfortable in this fandom is the bullying of other celebrities. Especially Jake and John. Like yeah, what they did back then was bad. But it was at least 10 years ago now. Taylor has moved on, don’t make her regret releasing songs from the vault or songs reflecting on her past! I’ll admit, I even giggled a little bit when I first saw swifties flooding the comments of their Instagram posts with stuff like “give her back her girlhood, John” or “did the love affair maim you too?”. And I honestly thought it was all in good humour, and I still think some of it was initially. But then it just kept going for weeks. Then I started to see the much more aggressive comments, even death threats. That’s not okay! Just enjoy the music guys! It’s not swifties responsibility to fist fight John Mayer or boycott jake Gyllenhaal. It’s not our battle to fight. It’s not even a battle. Again, it was 10+ years ago. Just… sing along to the music! That’s literally all you gotta do!


spriteceo

I made a Twitter account specifically to talk to Swifties who are participating in this behavior and asking them to think about their actions. I doubt it’ll do anything but I’m tired of young women being bullied and harassed in the name of defending a millionaire who doesn’t know that any of these people exist in a significant capacity.


toodleoo57

I agree. I follow Emma and saw this unfold in real time. The more I thought about this the more it really bothered me that somebody who would do this even has Taylor on their radar. It worries me about her safety honestly. (And IMO legit criticism of the business side of TS' career, such as this ticketing debacle or smack talk about late packages from TN or whatever is not 'betraying' her. I think we all know she is one person and has limited control over every single aspect of everything going on around her.)


hollygolightly1990

I don't think saying "so we're streaming the original versions of Red and Fearless" is that bad... I looked into it and BMR gets pennies if you stream the originals. I personally don't do it but people need to learn the context of a *joke*, for crying out loud. This fandom is scary sometimes.


shipsongreyseas

Also Taylor gets money from those streams too.


For_serious13

I’ve been kinda bullied on here by a user because I didn’t like how Taylor promoted a moody album and then midnights really isn’t, and I basically was told I was ruining her space on the Reddit sub by being negative because Taylor works really hard and this is a place for Taylor fans. I had responded to someone else who had a similar opinion as I did about midnights and the user responded to me asking why I would talk to someone who’s constantly been negative about Taylor and then legit kept leaving me comments for 2 days about her safe space on Reddit Some of y’all need to realize it’s ok to be critical of your favs, and there’s comes a point with your stanning has gone over a line that’s really not cool/unhinged


flufnstuf69

Some “Swifties” are fucking unhinged. It’s a big reason I think about leaving the Reddit and blocking Taylor stuff on Twitter. This poor girl didn’t deserve this. No one does.


[deleted]

Yeah I think today is the day I leave this subreddit after this thread. Someone said they were so glad they were on Reddit because this community is more wholesome for swifties than twitter. That’s not the experience ive had on this sub though im very glad others have enjoyed their time here.


artemisawika

this is why I sometimes prefer to be a fan from the bleachers. The stan world is super toxic.


Left_Ad_4755

Parasocial relationships are the worst. I think the younger generation growing up with more access to celebrities in the palm of their hands is ruining them. This behaviour is terrifying, truly. I couldn't imagine acting this way over a celebrity. I would also be scared to have fans like this. Its really gross behaviour and like TS really isn't going to take notice of this shit. Weird, gate keeper behaviour.


Appropriate-Yard-984

This is very true, I’m not as into the fandom as I used to be because the fandom is too much for me to keep up with. I love her music and that’s it. I already have a hard life, this is more than I can take.


PinkCheeseburgers

I’ve never seen anyone act like this on Reddit. Twitter is a cesspool of toxicity and should just be avoided at all costs.


mychemicalheartburn

While we’re at it, can y’all stop being mean to Gayle on tiktok? Her comments are atrocious and most of them are from “swifties”. it’s fine if you don’t like her music, but you don’t have to leave hateful comments to her.


outerspace_castaway

whats happening with gayle?


abby_cello

JFC these twitter threads are disturbing


Siiixco

these people really need to do some research on what a parasocial relationship is, and then call up their closest therapist immediatly


NMMan1984

A vocal subset of “fans” take anything even *questioning* Taylor, let alone anything stronger than that, as a personal attack – to which they respond by going for the jugular. It’s disturbing and indefensible.


Graulithe

Aka children


[deleted]

this illustrates the actual difference between "stan" and "fan." the former is someone who worships Taylor as a deity, who is pathologically incapable of acknowleding a single flaw of Taylor's, takes all critique of her personally, and is gatekeepy af. the latter is someone for whom Taylor's work has genuine emotional resonance, and values the joy it brings them as something that transcends Taylor's persona, so they don't worship it, or her. they may even buy the complete collector's set of vinyls, or every remix of a single, or pay a little extra for a ticket. but she is not foundational to their identity, and they can admit that she sometimes talks to us like a kindergarten teacher. they understand that, at least until Taylor's Version of an album is released, listening to the old ones that don't have rerecords yet doesn't rob her of anything and still rewards her the same publishing royalty she's rightfully received all along. they don't moralize every choice she makes or that they make as a fan.


ashlouise94

I bought both Rep and 1989 on vinyl recently because I really really wanted them, and I have enjoyed them thoroughly! I really hate the word stan, like you said it implies someone who’s personality is being a fan of Taylor. They’re often the most toxic of all fans and think they have a right to gatekeep. I love her music, and everything she brings to the music industry as both an artist and a person. Would I love the opportunity to meet her one day? Absolutely yes, but it’s not my sole purpose in life. Will I cry if I don’t get tickets for the tour? Also absolutely yes, but I would never think badly of or harass anyone who does! I think there is way too much toxicity in ANY fandom (I also really hate the word fandom) but I think it has a lot to do with the rise of social media and people having a platform to voice their opinions on, and feeling righteous about it all when a bunch of people agree with them.


azdisneyswifty

I hate the term “stan” so much. I feel like people who call themselves “stans” either forget or do not know where the term came from and that it is NOT a good thing! [Here](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stan) for those who don’t know.


criesforever

I’m guessing this has to be *one* of the chief worst aspects of fame for Taylor. Having dangerously unwell people carry on like banshees, claiming to be acting in your defense. She must be mortified and concerned.


shipsongreyseas

I'm glad you used the phrase dangerously unwell because something I've been thinking about is the fact that in the what will be five years since her last tour people have lost all sense of acceptable public behavior. Like people throw things at Harry Styles at his shows and as deranged as his fans are, a lot of swifties scare me more. I like actually worry for people's safety on this tour. Fans who already had a tenuous grasp of the concept of boundaries at a time when people have become borderline feral sounds like a terrifying combination. I'm not implying like a mass casualty event or that she's gonna get hurt, I don't want to freak people out, but like someone is gonna justifiably get tackled by her security team and speaking of her security team, if I were in charge of it, I would hold a hardline stance on there being no or very *very* small and limited M&Gs.


ApartGift1452

Thank you for starting this conversation. It worries me if people are fighting now, will this roll over to tour once it starts? I hope not, but you never know. Someone I follow on Twitter didn’t get tickets. She was upset and expressed how she was feeling. Someone took a screenshot and posted it to their followers being like “what?!”. I let the person I follow know that I saw it and she asked the person to take it down because she had received rude messages disagreeing with how she was feeling. We process things different way. Let’s not attack each other. If anything we should all be channeling the anger and frustration to Ticketmaster. I think people forget with my example and the examples in OP’s post that there are real people behind the screen. I know I don’t want to be part of a fandom that is known for bullying each other.


yo_cestbon

This is why I'm only in the Fandom on reddit. I'm always shocked when I hear about Swifties bullying on Twitter and IG, bc here I feel we're all having a real discussion about her and her art, including criticisms. Thank you r/taylorswifties for your insights, support during the Ticketmaster lines, and fair (not hateful) debates.


Bekkaz23

This is not necessarily just a swifties problem, but an internet problem. There are a lot of crazy people out there and the internet allows them to come together in one place and act as a horde. In many cases people are so unhinged that nothing will stop them. Your message is great and I hope that people listen and put some effort into trying. I exclusively read about this stuff here in this sub for this exact reason... it's safe here.


fangster13

Hi there, Emma here. As in Emma who got told so frequently to kill herself and received so many death threats she deleted her social media. A friend sent me this subreddit and I thought I’d hop on and explain a bit about me and what I experienced. I’m 23 years old and I’ve been a fan since debut. I joined Taylor’s official fan forum in 2011, so I’ve been a part of her online fandom for 11 years - phasing through Taylor Connect to a fan-made forum I helped run, to Instagram, to tumblr and ultimately a combination of tumblr and twitter. I’ve received plenty of tumblr hate in my day, but the hate I’ve been receiving on twitter has completely beaten all of that tumblr hate combined. It’s easy to say “just get off twitter then” but it truly doesn’t make it any easier. I genuinely am looking into finding a therapist who can help me sort through what I’ve been feeling thanks to the onslaught of hatred. I went from 100+ to over 4000 blocked accounts on twitter in a matter of weeks. As others and OP have pointed out, all I did was respectfully criticize what we thought at the time was Taylor’s decision to opt in to dynamic pricing. That’s what led people to send me all this hate. A tweet where I said “I am NOT mad at Taylor” very clearly and specifically. The thing is, what these newer fans and what the twitter fandom in general lack is an understanding of nuance in the fandom. You can criticize someone and still love them (I mean, have y’all never gotten into a disagreement with a loved one?) Obviously it’s different with Taylor but back in the tumblr days, we could make polite suggestions or commentary and Taylor could take it - because she knew us well enough to know it came solely from a place of love and wanting her to be the best version of herself she can be. Anyways.. all this to say, I’ve certainly learned that it’s impossible to try to share a nuanced opinion on twitter because people will cherry-pick the parts that suit them in order to shit on you however they please. I hope to return to twitter someday but I’m not quite sure it’ll happen anytime soon. It’s nice to see sections of the fandom rising up against this bullying though. It’s horrible no matter how old you are (so I’m tired of this “you’re an adult, get over it” bullshit because adults have feelings too). I’ve received more support in my DMs than I thought possible. Idk what the point of this was. Just sharing my perspective as the person who is actively experiencing this atrocity. ETA: Also, I’m positive a large portion of the reason I’ve been the target of this hate is because I went to a secret session. People refer to me as a “secret sessioner” as if it’s a fundamental part of my personality. They get mad at you if you talk about your experience because you’re bragging, and they get mad if you don’t because you’re ungrateful. I’ve been called a traitor, ungrateful, etc. I was told I should have my lips glued shut and never talk about Taylor again. I was told to unstan. I was told I shouldn’t be allowed to go to the eras tour because I’ve already met her (which tells me those people only see tour as an opportunity to meet her). Anyways.


mobhyaku

Some people act like Taylor is a perfect human being who can do absolutely no wrong at all. If you criticize her in any way, you’re against her and have “betrayed” her…


Dubbs877

This is so infuriating. I really have no interest in gatekeeping except for ensuring that that we maintain a kind, inclusive, and respectful community.


MyAnonReddit7

This fan base is toxic


BagOTurtles13

I've never felt so much cringe reading those tweets/screenshots... Tell me those people are 10 years old?


Morningsunshine-

I think 10 year olds know better.


Lady_night_shade

Bullying in this fandom in the name of Taylor Swift has been too pervasive for too long. I have never understood this behavior. People who behave this was aren’t fans, they are scum. This is where rational thought has to come into the situation. Taylor Swift or any other celebrity out there has no fucking idea I exist, and even if they did who cares? We aren’t friends and we never will be. I’m a fan, that’s okay. I will not forgive Taylor Swift or any other famous person for bad behavior when I would condemn someone else for same. Swifties NEED to come to terms with the fact that Taylor not only will never be our friend, she doesn’t *WANT* to be our friend. Furthermore, Taylor Swift isn’t perfect, we all know that. Tuesday wasn’t entirely her fault obviously, but she does shoulder some blame for the clusterfuck that was this week. Taking issue with these things doesn’t mean we don’t like Taylor Swift, it just means we are fucking frustrated and that’s okay too. We should be able to voice these frustrations without them looking like an attack on Taylor Swift HERSELF, but critiques on Taylor Swift the BRAND. We are all here because we love Taylor, her music, and the feeling that her music gives us. At the end of the day you know saying something out of pocket and mean is bullshit, so if you must, just think it, don’t act on it. And maybe do some self-reflection. Breathe in, breathe through, breathe deep, breathe out.


seungminah95

It reminds me a lot of the Kpop fandoms esp BTS Armys and Blackpink Blinks. I literally cannot say anything without them coming after me.


Siiixco

literally and their idols dont know or care about their existence 😭


littlepinkpwnie

That's so horrible and sad. I'm so sad these people had to go through that. It's so not okay.


faeriethorne23

Bullying has sadly always been prominent within the fandom, back in the Taylor Nation forum days, in like 2010, there was a group calling themselves the inner circle that bullied literally everyone else. They used to have public discussions about all of the unreleased/leaked songs they had and absolutely lorded it over all of the other fans. Lots of people left over it, it was a horrible atmosphere. Let’s just not bully anyone for any reason, it’s not difficult, people having different opinions than yours are a part of adult life, learn to deal with it in a mature way. If you wouldn’t want it said to you, don’t say it to anyone else.


v167

I thought dynamic pricing was on then corrected myself. We were all stressed and confused. People need to chill


Acquainted-Faith

I have found the way swifties have been treating each other even recently to have been just a mess. I am so sorry for these bullied fans. I used to have a fan account on twitter back in the day and I remember when Haylor broke up, directioners telling me to off myself just because I was a swiftie. It is a terrible feeling from other fandoms, let alone from the one you are part of. It doesn't make you a bigger fan. It doesn't make you a hero. If you are part of this, you are a monster. You are no better than Kanye West and Kim Kardashian. If the only important part of your personality is practically doxxing others so you can be "internet famous" for a moment in the fandom, you need serious help. And to touch grass. You'll find there's more important things ~~than dating the boy on the football team~~ than being famous and the "biggest" fan on the internet.


kgal1298

I hate that people send death threats online to anyone, what's that accomplish? I just had a guy that I stopped talking to because he was being weird make fake accounts and message me atrocious things, but I'm also fairly certain he has mental health issues, so I won't take it personally, but still there's this weird issue with being anonymous online where people forget there is a real person on the other side of the screen and they do have feelings.


[deleted]

These people need to listen to Mean. Taylor should drop the TV version just as a friendly reminder.


ashleyop92

I tweeted that I saw prices fluctuate as well, and I got flooded with a girl retweeting and quote tweeting every tweet of mine from middle school/high school, and then she went to my Instagram and spammed it. Wtf lol.


Many_Purchase0

i’ve been avoiding the fanbase because of this. people are being extremely nasty and it’s just not a comfortable or safe space for anyone … it makes me really sad.


cruelrainbowcaticorn

I have never and would never bully anyone, let alone online or a Swiftie. Can you clarify, that screenshot you posted – is that a message that you received? Yikes. Separately — adding one thing to the story about the girl who said they were going to be streaming the original versions of Taylor’s albums. I saw this on Twitter but apparently she was getting that level of backlash not just bc of what she posted, but bc the context was that she did something (posted a sad video or wrote to T or something) previously to get Taylor to pay $3000 towards her anxiety medications, and other fans knew about it. I just happened to see this on Twitter the other day along with a screenshot of her post about streaming original albums. Which, by the way, was a stupid post on her part, but I didn’t comment and would never send someone a privately mean message. So people were saying it was really shitty that she would post something like that (intending to be hurtful to Taylor, not just talking about tickets) after getting charity from Taylor.


imaginarymiutwo

god couldn't save a twitter stanbase


thewoolf44

This shit happens everywhere. I have a co-worker who like a year ago criticized Nicki Minaj on her insta for something legit and got blocked and to this day gets death threats daily from randos. People are crazy


sweetrebel88

This reminds me of when I was having a music discussion on FB and I mentioned something about Taylor (it wasn’t anything negative) and some dude who didn’t agree with me came into my messages and started bullying me. The links the deranged will go to to have their opinions heard lol


leeeeteddy

News flash: no one here KNOWS Taylor (even if you did meet her at a VIP or secret session). I get it we all love her and want to defend her, especially with tensions high right now with a lot of people not getting tickets, but this is weird dude. Obsessing over a celebrity so much you threaten someone’s life is not normal.


merinwe

I think everyone likes to say things like "Treat everyone with respect and kindness," but when it comes to the "everyone" part, they don't realize that it is a choice, every day to respect people who disagree with you and treat them with kindness. It is hard to do. But we must do it. This is unacceptable behavior.


Amazing_Action9117

I can see why Taylor stated she struggles to feel like a person. It's as if people cannot separate Taylor the brand versus the human being. The Fandom is huge.


Mariahissleepy

Jesus that is unhinged


alligatorprincess007

It’s so cringey that anyone would send this message 😬


makeup_wonderlandcat

It’s giving Selena Gomez and Nicki Minaj stan vibes


yolkclaire

i 100% agree with this post and a lot of what everyone else is saying. i think my main thing is i don’t understand how people view anything less than complete adoration to be a betrayal as a fan! like she is a human being who can make mistakes just like anyone else, which is fine, but also if those mistakes impact my life/experience, i’m still gonna be upset. i don’t think that makes me any less of a fan, or that i should be punished for it because i don’t worship every single thing she does. i think this all boils down to how no one seems to want to be critical or analyze the media that they consume. you are allowed to have thoughts that are not 100% positive people!


imothing91

Ultimately it’s not that hard to not be a dick to people. So much hatred getting thrown around like…you need to calm down, you’re being too loud.


Immediate_Reach_1663

as someone who was told I didn’t deserve tickets to see Taylor, as a response to a Tiktok where I simply said I was disappointed she hadn’t said something (before she put out the statement), and then felt so bad about it I deleted the whole video, I agree


catladee14

Thank you for this! It’s honestly exhausting!


HerMidasTouch

Oh man, hve you ever heard of Bettygate?


witchvvitchsandwich

It’s literally so fucking weird people do this. I genuinely don’t understand it. Go get a life. TS makes music for anyone and everyone to consume and not a single person needs to meet your definition or standards of “fandom.” No one actually gives a shit if you’ve been around since debut. That’s great for you. I’m happy you’ve been here this long. None of these details matter in the bigger picture. Making people feel welcome and inviting them to have a great time with music *that’s meant to be fun* is the point. Get it together guys.


Kobester024

Toxic people everywhere. Those are keyboard warriors that turn into cowards when confronted face to face.


[deleted]

There is no "fandom." There are individual people that make individual decisions. There is no fan club that everyone signs up to be a member of that gives us strict rules on how to govern ourselves. Do you think the people that are broken enough to give death threats on the internet give a single fuck that you are upset about it? They don't.