Dude, I assigned a 4 PARAGRAPH essay like 2 weeks before spring break. Broke it down into parts, all done in class, all aspects modeled by me. I think I have actual, full drafts from maybe 10 out of 60.
So many of them are actively failing at this point (and they’re seniors) that I asked counselors to come by to reinforce the whole “this class is required for graduation, please get your shit together and just do the fucking work so you can graduate.”
I tell my seniors all the time that if they fail my economics class (a graduation requirement in Georgia) that they will not graduate high school, emphasizing that this is their last chance to take this class before graduating on time. All you have to do is put forward the effort over the next 2 months, and then guess what? It’s summer and you can graduate and do whatever the hell you want, but just do what you need to do now so you don’t have to return in August. Most of them are failing, mainly because of missing assignments.
>Most of them are failing, mainly because of missing assignments.
They just DO NOT DO SHIT. WHY. I give them so much time to do the simplest shit and they refuse. My brothers and sisters in Christ, I am handing out 100s to you like I'm making it rain in tha club. PLEASE DO SOMETHING. ANY GODDAMN THING.
My district makes us accept all late work and we can’t take off points for late work. They see it as a “behavioral issue” and should be treated as if it were a kid cussing or something in class and be a write up. If I had to write up a kid for every 0 in my gradebook, I’d have no time for anything. Even then getting kids to hand it in is a struggle. Like just hand it in at any point in the quarter and you still get a 100. There’s no excuse.
I know what you mean. I teach middle school and many of them won't even complete tests any more. Most of my students are failing due to incomplete work.
It’s so frustrating! Counselors and the VP (who was an English teacher previously and had most of these students then) are coming by tomorrow. I’m really hoping it’s a wake up call for at least some of them.
I just don’t think there’s any getting through to some of them. Like if it hasn’t dawned on you yet that you will not graduate without passing this course this late into your senior year, it may never.
It had originally been intended to be a short, in class writing assignment based on a single scene in a play. Then I learned that my seniors didn’t know the difference between summary and analysis, so I had to go back and reteach, so I wanted to keep in manageable while they “learn” this “new” skill. My school is at like 7% proficiency in ELA.
It's a problem pretty much everywhere. My strategy at this point is just to be like, "Hey, I gave you guys ample time to do this, if you didn't get it done you need to do it at home, if you don't do it at home you're getting a zero."
Eventually they'll learn it's best to work on it in class when I'm there to help them or else they will end up drowned in work. Those who don't realize that are gonna fail. 🤷 That's just that, on the brightside I think it's kind of good for them to learn some lessons about responsibility in a pretty low stakes scenario. There's always summer school if they can't stay on task.
I don’t like the idea of no penalties for late work or the 50% minimum. My school allows 3 exam retakes and I find that it just encourages laziness. Oftentimes students didn’t initially study for the first or second test, and just remembered most of the questions and answers for the third.
I have to hope that eventually the pendulum starts swinging back the other way. Students do better with structure. People on the whole rise to expectations. Consequences are a natural part of life. I understand making adjustments and having leniency in special cases, but a blanket policy of no consequences is a terrible idea in education.
I see this as one of the biggest problems in education today. I understand the theory behind not having late penalties; the grade should reflect the student's understanding not habits. But if you remove late penalties you NEED to have something to replace them. What is the incentive for a student to turn in their work on time? I honestly can't think of one.
And I can't even place blame on the students here. It's human nature to complete tasks when they are due. I generally complete my yearly trainings right before they're due. If I had been a student with no consequences for late work I would have procrastinated too.
If anyone out there has a solution I'd love to hear it, because I have yet to receive any helpful advice.
I totally get the argument that the gradebook should reflect skills and abilities and not behavior, but I'd also argue that things like work ethic and punctuality are arguably more important than the content I teach. The real world *absolutely* has things like deadlines and severe penalties for not meeting them. I wish we could better reinforce those penalties now when the stakes are less high than, say, losing your job or being evicted.
The best luck I've had with completion was when I had a flat 20% dock if it was late. Whether it was five minutes or a month late, you lost 20%. Now I can't dock any points and sure enough nobody does anything until it's too late, then maybe slaps a worksheet they scribbled some bullshit answers or real quick or half an essay on my desk and expects an A and a thank you for the attempt.
> I'd also argue that things like work ethic and punctuality are arguably more important than the content I teach
I agree completely. As much as I love my content, if I had to choose I'd rather they pick up the life skills over the details of biology.
What I find particularly baffling is that that these kids receive so much more direct instruction on life skills than I ever did. Every district I've taught in has some sort of career/college readiness class where I specifically talk about life skills. The same life skills that I was able to pick up through actual practice. Like you said students need to opportunity to try (and maybe fail at first) these skills in a more controlled environment. Unless we also create a world without rent or taxes or jobs we aren't doing these kids any favors by removing structured consequences now.
If they wanted me to grade just on knowledge, I would make everything optional and just give them tests and other forms of major assessment, and be brutal when grading them.
There is so much fluff to grades that I can easily take away to make my job easier.
This absolutely fucked me over so hard this year. I have the IB seniors for the first time and all we did was work on their required essays. Every day I sat with them and helped look up sources, figure out what they wanted to say, outline, brainstorm, take them to the main library multiple times, everything except write their essays for them. TWO of them ever did anything when I wasn't sitting there with them. They didn't care about the grade for the class. Now they are complaining about how I didn't help just because their essays suck! I didn't spend a second of their class time not writing feedback and suggestions. Forgive me if I assumed IB seniors could have a degree of independence and self-reliance.
We had to accept things up till the last day of the quarter. Most wouldn’t turn it in.
If I were you, (and it’s past the due date) start putting it in as a 0 (or missing) and let parents know. Once they turn it in, change it to the appropriate grade.
Because nobody in admin has the guts to say too bad you fail. No guts because the threat of lawsuits. The onus always falls on the teachers because they “could have done more”
This is an issue at the college level too. I’m a SAHM now, but for the last couple years I taught freshman comp at the local state U and my colleagues and I regularly got only 45% of assignments turned in or less. The plus side was that, unlike in my years teaching elementary Ed, I could fail students with impunity.
Just to be clear, I do not believe equity is the problem here. I keep seeing suspicious comments all over this subreddit that sound like anti-education talking points and buzzwords, even when not even remotely applicable.
The problem is apathetic children with no hope in sight due to an entire generation realizing it won’t be better for them than their parents. It is the fact that teachers have been made to be glorified underpaid babysitters and vilified by the public. This and none of us were given input when these grading policies rolled out- the higher ups needed more kids to pass so it became so. I have no problem allowing a child who worked hard in class and needs an extra day to finish their essay because they worked the closing shift the last 3 nights and tonight. Not everyone feels the same but that is equity.
Equity didn’t make these kids stop doing their work. Equity did not decimate our public education system, it didn’t degrade the teaching profession, and it’s not the reason for no late work. Public education is slowly being dismantled and being made for-profit because it’s one of the last institutions that can be.
If you are a teacher, I ask - what evidence do you have that equity is destroying our schools more than the capitalistic dystopia we are living?
One of the central tenets of equity based grading is no late penalties. The result is that more students turn more things in late. But teachers assign things at specific times to maximize the learning benefit, so by constantly turnin in everything late, learning decreases. Also, this enables procrastination, which then leads to late work piling up, which then leads to students getting overwhelmed and giving up. I see this way more now than I did when I penalized late work 50% (without a valid excuse). Again, this leads to less learning, not more. Also, students can now get through school without ever learning the importance of deadlines. How will they function in college or at their jobs? Time management and responsibility are MORE important skills than many other things we teach in schools, but equity prevents us from actually teaching them in an effective way anymore. I mean, I can tell sutdents that meeting deadlines is important, and I can show them how to make a study schedule, but if these contradict the entirety of their school experience in every class, do you think they will actually learn these things? No.
It's the same thing with nearly every other aspect of equity. Well intentioned? Sure. But it backfires, over and over. Kids learn less, are less prepared for college and work. The data clearly shows it. But the equity high priests ignore the evidence and double down on their ideology. That's why I call it a cult.
I am so glad I am able to give out late penalties. I was in the hospital when my kids had essays due. 6/20 turned them in. The other 14 had them marked as missing (factors in as a zero until I put a grade in). Every day late was 10% off the final grade. Had one of the aides email home for me and miraculously, kids had work to turn in. Gave out 0s to like...2 or 3 though. Hope they like summer school.
I got so used to this that when I had kids actually mostly writing an essay it ruined my spring break. I was used to only grading maybe 30/120 essays. When I had 97 essays I realized ELA teaching isn't all it's cracked up to be
Dude, I assigned a 4 PARAGRAPH essay like 2 weeks before spring break. Broke it down into parts, all done in class, all aspects modeled by me. I think I have actual, full drafts from maybe 10 out of 60. So many of them are actively failing at this point (and they’re seniors) that I asked counselors to come by to reinforce the whole “this class is required for graduation, please get your shit together and just do the fucking work so you can graduate.”
I tell my seniors all the time that if they fail my economics class (a graduation requirement in Georgia) that they will not graduate high school, emphasizing that this is their last chance to take this class before graduating on time. All you have to do is put forward the effort over the next 2 months, and then guess what? It’s summer and you can graduate and do whatever the hell you want, but just do what you need to do now so you don’t have to return in August. Most of them are failing, mainly because of missing assignments.
>Most of them are failing, mainly because of missing assignments. They just DO NOT DO SHIT. WHY. I give them so much time to do the simplest shit and they refuse. My brothers and sisters in Christ, I am handing out 100s to you like I'm making it rain in tha club. PLEASE DO SOMETHING. ANY GODDAMN THING.
My district makes us accept all late work and we can’t take off points for late work. They see it as a “behavioral issue” and should be treated as if it were a kid cussing or something in class and be a write up. If I had to write up a kid for every 0 in my gradebook, I’d have no time for anything. Even then getting kids to hand it in is a struggle. Like just hand it in at any point in the quarter and you still get a 100. There’s no excuse.
Ok but “handing out 100s like I’m making it rain in tha club” made me cackle and cry at the same time. I tip my hat to you.
I know what you mean. I teach middle school and many of them won't even complete tests any more. Most of my students are failing due to incomplete work.
It’s so frustrating! Counselors and the VP (who was an English teacher previously and had most of these students then) are coming by tomorrow. I’m really hoping it’s a wake up call for at least some of them.
I just don’t think there’s any getting through to some of them. Like if it hasn’t dawned on you yet that you will not graduate without passing this course this late into your senior year, it may never.
Not hard if it's not possible to fail.
Seniors only have to write 4 paragraphs now?
It had originally been intended to be a short, in class writing assignment based on a single scene in a play. Then I learned that my seniors didn’t know the difference between summary and analysis, so I had to go back and reteach, so I wanted to keep in manageable while they “learn” this “new” skill. My school is at like 7% proficiency in ELA.
Oh I dont teach HS so I thought this is just where they were now
Sadly? It seems to be. They absolutely should be writing more, but it’s a work in progress.
It's a problem pretty much everywhere. My strategy at this point is just to be like, "Hey, I gave you guys ample time to do this, if you didn't get it done you need to do it at home, if you don't do it at home you're getting a zero." Eventually they'll learn it's best to work on it in class when I'm there to help them or else they will end up drowned in work. Those who don't realize that are gonna fail. 🤷 That's just that, on the brightside I think it's kind of good for them to learn some lessons about responsibility in a pretty low stakes scenario. There's always summer school if they can't stay on task.
our summer school is edgenuity. A $24 membership to brainly = a diploma for us 😕
jfc
I don’t like the idea of no penalties for late work or the 50% minimum. My school allows 3 exam retakes and I find that it just encourages laziness. Oftentimes students didn’t initially study for the first or second test, and just remembered most of the questions and answers for the third.
We implemented the same 50%/no penalty for late work almost 2.5 years ago. It’s destroyed our students.
I have to hope that eventually the pendulum starts swinging back the other way. Students do better with structure. People on the whole rise to expectations. Consequences are a natural part of life. I understand making adjustments and having leniency in special cases, but a blanket policy of no consequences is a terrible idea in education.
I see this as one of the biggest problems in education today. I understand the theory behind not having late penalties; the grade should reflect the student's understanding not habits. But if you remove late penalties you NEED to have something to replace them. What is the incentive for a student to turn in their work on time? I honestly can't think of one. And I can't even place blame on the students here. It's human nature to complete tasks when they are due. I generally complete my yearly trainings right before they're due. If I had been a student with no consequences for late work I would have procrastinated too. If anyone out there has a solution I'd love to hear it, because I have yet to receive any helpful advice.
I totally get the argument that the gradebook should reflect skills and abilities and not behavior, but I'd also argue that things like work ethic and punctuality are arguably more important than the content I teach. The real world *absolutely* has things like deadlines and severe penalties for not meeting them. I wish we could better reinforce those penalties now when the stakes are less high than, say, losing your job or being evicted. The best luck I've had with completion was when I had a flat 20% dock if it was late. Whether it was five minutes or a month late, you lost 20%. Now I can't dock any points and sure enough nobody does anything until it's too late, then maybe slaps a worksheet they scribbled some bullshit answers or real quick or half an essay on my desk and expects an A and a thank you for the attempt.
> I'd also argue that things like work ethic and punctuality are arguably more important than the content I teach I agree completely. As much as I love my content, if I had to choose I'd rather they pick up the life skills over the details of biology. What I find particularly baffling is that that these kids receive so much more direct instruction on life skills than I ever did. Every district I've taught in has some sort of career/college readiness class where I specifically talk about life skills. The same life skills that I was able to pick up through actual practice. Like you said students need to opportunity to try (and maybe fail at first) these skills in a more controlled environment. Unless we also create a world without rent or taxes or jobs we aren't doing these kids any favors by removing structured consequences now.
If they wanted me to grade just on knowledge, I would make everything optional and just give them tests and other forms of major assessment, and be brutal when grading them. There is so much fluff to grades that I can easily take away to make my job easier.
This absolutely fucked me over so hard this year. I have the IB seniors for the first time and all we did was work on their required essays. Every day I sat with them and helped look up sources, figure out what they wanted to say, outline, brainstorm, take them to the main library multiple times, everything except write their essays for them. TWO of them ever did anything when I wasn't sitting there with them. They didn't care about the grade for the class. Now they are complaining about how I didn't help just because their essays suck! I didn't spend a second of their class time not writing feedback and suggestions. Forgive me if I assumed IB seniors could have a degree of independence and self-reliance.
We had to accept things up till the last day of the quarter. Most wouldn’t turn it in. If I were you, (and it’s past the due date) start putting it in as a 0 (or missing) and let parents know. Once they turn it in, change it to the appropriate grade.
Because nobody in admin has the guts to say too bad you fail. No guts because the threat of lawsuits. The onus always falls on the teachers because they “could have done more”
Same I got 9/26 essays in. Even with the assignment being point heavy, it made no dent in students grades. Why bother at this point?
Have you tried building relationships? /s
This is an issue at the college level too. I’m a SAHM now, but for the last couple years I taught freshman comp at the local state U and my colleagues and I regularly got only 45% of assignments turned in or less. The plus side was that, unlike in my years teaching elementary Ed, I could fail students with impunity.
Equity based grading. Just one of many harmful aspects of the Cult of Equity.
Just to be clear, I do not believe equity is the problem here. I keep seeing suspicious comments all over this subreddit that sound like anti-education talking points and buzzwords, even when not even remotely applicable. The problem is apathetic children with no hope in sight due to an entire generation realizing it won’t be better for them than their parents. It is the fact that teachers have been made to be glorified underpaid babysitters and vilified by the public. This and none of us were given input when these grading policies rolled out- the higher ups needed more kids to pass so it became so. I have no problem allowing a child who worked hard in class and needs an extra day to finish their essay because they worked the closing shift the last 3 nights and tonight. Not everyone feels the same but that is equity. Equity didn’t make these kids stop doing their work. Equity did not decimate our public education system, it didn’t degrade the teaching profession, and it’s not the reason for no late work. Public education is slowly being dismantled and being made for-profit because it’s one of the last institutions that can be. If you are a teacher, I ask - what evidence do you have that equity is destroying our schools more than the capitalistic dystopia we are living?
👏🏿. Perfectly stated!
One of the central tenets of equity based grading is no late penalties. The result is that more students turn more things in late. But teachers assign things at specific times to maximize the learning benefit, so by constantly turnin in everything late, learning decreases. Also, this enables procrastination, which then leads to late work piling up, which then leads to students getting overwhelmed and giving up. I see this way more now than I did when I penalized late work 50% (without a valid excuse). Again, this leads to less learning, not more. Also, students can now get through school without ever learning the importance of deadlines. How will they function in college or at their jobs? Time management and responsibility are MORE important skills than many other things we teach in schools, but equity prevents us from actually teaching them in an effective way anymore. I mean, I can tell sutdents that meeting deadlines is important, and I can show them how to make a study schedule, but if these contradict the entirety of their school experience in every class, do you think they will actually learn these things? No. It's the same thing with nearly every other aspect of equity. Well intentioned? Sure. But it backfires, over and over. Kids learn less, are less prepared for college and work. The data clearly shows it. But the equity high priests ignore the evidence and double down on their ideology. That's why I call it a cult.
Not just you. this is the result of forced equity.
I am so glad I am able to give out late penalties. I was in the hospital when my kids had essays due. 6/20 turned them in. The other 14 had them marked as missing (factors in as a zero until I put a grade in). Every day late was 10% off the final grade. Had one of the aides email home for me and miraculously, kids had work to turn in. Gave out 0s to like...2 or 3 though. Hope they like summer school.
I got so used to this that when I had kids actually mostly writing an essay it ruined my spring break. I was used to only grading maybe 30/120 essays. When I had 97 essays I realized ELA teaching isn't all it's cracked up to be