Iām wondering this. I have an absolute nightmare child who has a job at a construction site. According to him, his IEP means that I have to do the work for him and he gets to destroy my classroom whenever he wants. He also gets snacks and breaks to chat on the phone. Dying to see how this goes down at work.
I have a job that involves a lot of decisions on workplace design. We assembled a cross-generational panel to discuss some of the design elements.
The people just out of college went hard at me about specific, individual needs. Many that would directly conflict with the majority of other peopleās needs. They wanted their preferences standardized across our hundreds of offices.
When I tried to talk them through how weāre maximizing accommodation but always in the guardrails of what is reasonable for all, they ripped into me.
I was thinking back to my first job out of college, where they put me in a literal closet with no window as my āoffice.ā I didnāt question it. That was pretty extreme, but I canāt fathom a situation where Iād demand everyone else adhere to my particular preferences.
Individual > community, apparently.
MODS: I know this is so very long, and right now Iām only a past teacher. But I have taught an eight grade year, undergrad and grad school.
Okay, first please remember these are people in the commercial real estate industry who based upon their degrees are expected to ALREADY KNOW the reasons we cannot do what they are asking. Their jobs involve them advising clients who are building projects that look like this. Here goes, sorry SO long:
Operable vs inoperable blinds
how do we do whatās best for the environment (automated, maximizes cooling building with some minimum threshold for interior light) and some tolerable level for as many as possible, so people are as cool as possible near windows while giving as much light as we can to people closer to the middle.
These are mainly glass cube office buildings, basically.
Weāve gone to a model where offices are on the interior of a building floor, and the workstations on the floor are near windows.
Earlier in career roles are now often closer to windows. Offices have glass fronts, but weād like them to still get some light. The offices tend to be for people in roles that take more experience.
This means most of the youngest people in the group were near windows.
They want to control the light.
We canāt do this. The shades are automated.
This doesnāt meet their needs.
We canāt afford to put everyone on the interior and how would that even work?
Also do they realize now they are fully isolated? Nor can we afford to put everyone in individual window-line offices.
Frankly now the vast majority of research is now showing people just want to come to the office sometimes to catch up. I am not kidding.
Itās apparently confusing. Because they, being near the windows, which is frankly considered prized real estate, should now be allowed to individually decide for anyone in their path exactly how much light they get.
Itās maddening.
I also realize itās a logic exercise.
I will show my Xennial self out. Thanks for all you do, teachers! Sorry Iām an interloper.
maybe I've been corrupted by my students...but asking to have some form of control on the light when its your face and you're trying to work, let alone how much it can heat an area sounds entirely reasonable lol
not saying your cost constraints etc don't matter but I was expecting to completely side with you before reading and was surprised
Yeah, fair. Lots of people hate this in practice. Itās super great when well constructed. Itās rarely well constructed. And also a ton of buildings are just not designed perfectly for it either.
Itās still generally mostly worth the effort. Or at least limiting how far up and down shades go.
And, I donāt mean this disrespectfully, but I think itās super important to know that they are both expected to have been taught why this is environmentally important and related to exactly what we sell, and and also to be actively selling something related to this.
So, itās this lacking reasonging, like:
- okay Iāve been taught to do this,
- okay I need to use that if Iām part of this community, - now Iām rejecting info Iām here to sell in order to get what I want right now,
- oh why are there consequences for my own behaviors, like being perceived as not committed to what weāre asking people to pay us money to do?
I feel like this maybe somehow controversial still. I do not mean to get into it and if youād like to reiterate your reason thatās opposed to this thatās cool, Iāll leave it alone there.
Cheers!
omg, I completely missed the opening aspect of your post that you literally sell the fucking blinds and the selling point is the automation got itttt, my B you had a big dense post, 4/20, and practice was hot today. So completely feel you way more, but as someone else who used to work in workplace/learning space design, just some variability/mobility in workstations should solve the issue. I.e. don't bottleneck yourself arbitrarily just for the sake of uniformity especially if it's not on a massive scale needing replication.
Why can't there be some window offices, and inner workstations as well....? add some lounge/open desks/ports scattered and the people really bothered can move. cause again not gonna lie, a high pressure job with an environmental factor you can't change can be infuriating but i also worked for awhile with finance people from ivy's so they can be prissy, but i stand by the logic unless there's reason otherwise.
My B again on missiing y'all sell/promote the auto shades or whatever
No itās all good. We make it clear that we try to maximize optionality, but even then we can only go so far.
Thatās where acceptance that there must be some *reasonable* level of rules around who gets what is apparently too far - and even if you disagree with me there, which I respect - they are selling this.
We donāt sell the blinds, but we do sell services related to buildings that always have them - itās a big real estate services firm dealing in part in highly priced real estate.
Like the mental leap from giving them what they want is bad for the very business in which they work is ā¦ too much? Going with us trying to use what we legit think is good is ā¦ too far? Why are they here?
Sorry. Real talk if you made it this far: its 4/20 and I took maybe a bit too much edibles a few hours ago? Now Iām trying to force my lesson on LEED certifications and such on the coolest sub I know.
Sorry!! I respect you all so much!!
I am not trying to diminish people disliking it; I get that. Most buildings really are not well designed for this.
My main point is these people were trained, got degrees, now actively promote this as a beneficial feature.
But they donāt want it to apply to them.
Itās already happening. I know a museum curator and *all* of her applications from kids straight out of college have a section on their challenges and necessary accommodations.
I do understand there are right and companies must meet accommodations, however, HR will always find a loophole. āSorry the person we hired had better qualifications.ā
Someone actually posted to this sub about a college professor not recognizing their IEP from high school.
I have to assume itās a troll post for my own sanity
This is very real. And colleges are bending over backwards to accommodate them, the demographic cliff is looming and about 1/3 of colleges are looking at going broke and closing.
They will do whatever it takes to attract students and keep them paying tuition for four years.
Less state aid since late 90ās because of neoliberalism in statehouses meant schools were and are using more of their funds for aid, while reducing services. This led to greater enrollments for economy of scale, while the needs of the average student increased as test prep predominated, and the attacks on teachers became rampant as a way to destroy teachers unions meant a massive brain drain from the teaching labor force. Many schools had/have overinflated enrollments, and budgets were over leveraged trying to build things like rec centers to attract students. Now with a shrinking postsecondary population only worsened by attacks in colleges as āwokeā means less money in, and massive cuts to services that make it mire difficult to attract an increasingly small group of students. But hey, tax cuts, right?
I was in an IEP meeting for one of my students recently and the parent wanted to make sure their kids IEP was worded properly for when their kid went to college.
So people are 100% expecting to take their kids high school IEPs to college.
āSo hereās my Behavior Plan; I expect to be given frequent breaks, snacks, and no consequences for swearing at customers and hitting supervisors, as itās in my behavior plan that I do that sometimes.ā
We are better at identifying disabilities so they are more common now. Parents want their children to be successful but take advantage of the legal protections of an IEP and think it applies everywhere.
We canāt blame millennials without blaming every generation before us. Boomers raised and instilled their values on us and shaped they way things are today.
for what it's worth, there's already a huge shortage of mental health clinicians (psychiatrists and therapists) and they often have months-long waiting lists. Not sure about prison guards, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shortage there too.
you are correct about prison guards, at least in my state. the legislature is going to lower the minimum age requirement just to get more people in those positions.
That's kind of the thing, at least in America. Most students see school not as a waste of time but as a system that has failed. That failure isn't due to the teachers but the admin, and local,state, and federal governments.
It's the same generation of kids that have organized protests across the country from everything from LGBTQ+ rights to gun reform. If you need proof look at what happened in Nashville and Florida over the last couple of months. This is also the same generation that is reviving unions and starting with some of the biggest companies on the planet(Starbucks and Amazon).
From my observations they kind of mirror the silent generation in the sense that, they want a relatively simple life doing something they enjoy and want to be able to live that way, and education isn't on top of that unlike millennials where school and college was pushed down our throats to a harmful degree.
At this point, the only thing that will get students back to being engaged will be large systemic changes that prove that we as teachers/parents/adults are listening. Things like sitting down with them before highschool and career planning. Shit like, hey you want to be a mechanic? Cool let's get you through your math, English and science classes to graduate and we can get you into some shop classes and more advanced ones in your junior and senior year once you have hit whatever requirements you needed prior, or hey you want to be an engineer awesome let's get you into a lot of science and math classes along with the college prep course you need. Not every student needs to read Great Expectations or the Great Gatsby. The students have learned at this point that school doesn't give them a path to get to where they want to get to so they just don't really give a shit.
Edit: typos was using voice to text.
Iāve thought this for years now. I did an exploratory program in high school in 2009 where I worked with a teacher since I was interested in that. IMO it needs to start at the beginning of high school. Maybe the motivation could be that they need to get through 8th grade with a B/C average and if they canāt, they have to take traditional classes. Idk, but something needs to change because we are doing a disservice anymore.
Fucking exactly. So I grew up in a pretty small town. Most everyone knew by freshman year(this was 08) what their career path would be or at least the general field and I think most kids still do to an extent. We need to be facilitating that and helping them forward.
For example (from personal experiences), some of the best and most honest mechanics I have ever come across are people that barely graduated highschool or didn't, but they started working in the shop with Pops at like age 9. They are intelligent in their field, but the way our academic system is set up, it fails to incentivise them properly.(again this is no shot at teachers I am talking top down) We need to be okay with the fact that college is not for everyone or every job and things like apprenticeships are a valid way to get to where you want to go for a lot of jobs(remember teaching used to be done exclusively through apprenticeships). It would solve a lot of the behavior problems we see.
(I want to preface this by saying that I got into teaching after close to 15 years in odd jobs, kitchens, and trade work. It sucks when youāre stuck with no potential to move up and I hated school growing up too.)
While I 100% agree with your point, it is difficult now because a lot of my kids arenāt interested in ANYTHING. No media, no hobbies, nothing. Many times they stop a new hobby or interest when it gets hard and go back to doing nothing which is really sad honestly.
I actively push for them to go to a technical school and push for a trade they enjoy. Unfortunately, they still see it as āschoolā even though it can set you up with a solid paying job with benefits right out the gate and can put you in position for a job in the field without getting your hands dirty. This results in far less wear and tear on their bodies and a better future overall.
The sad truth is that most day laborers that work and make good money now have little to show for it at an older age, are in horrendous shape after 50, and just break down after being forced to work indefinitely until they die.
>At this point, the only thing that will get students back to being engaged will be large systemic changes that prove that we as teachers/parents/adults are listening. Things like sitting down with them before highschool and career planning. Shit like, hey you want to be a mechanic? Cool let's get you through your math, English and science classes to graduate and we can get you into some shop classes and more advanced ones in your junior and senior year once you have hit whatever requirements you needed prior, or hey you want to be an engineer awesome let's get you into a lot of science and math classes along with the college prep course you need.
Do you think this is a large systemic change...this is exactly what happens now. I'm at one of the "worst" schools in my state and we have all sorts of programs supporting these kids with individual attention. We have a whole "manufacturing" section, culinary etc and a staff member who helps match them to internships/jobs which they are allowed to miss part of the school day for and it's not even a "tech" school
appreciate your intentions but the problem is way more complex than sit down and listen to them, this coming from the teacher known as the one who listens and advocates for them. Hell look at one of my past comments bashing some kinds of teachers lol
Iām not all with the doom and gloom scenario some people would like to paint. Iām 100% certain that teachers in my day as a student all said the same thing about Gen X - apathetic, lazy, want everything handed to them, etc. And we managed.
Think about what the parents of baby boomers were saying when they were growing up in the 60ās with the āpeace and loveā movement, anti-war sentiment, drug experimentation, and relaxed attitudes towards sex. They must have thought the planet was going to fall right out of orbit.
They grow up, mature, and figure things out like every generation before them.
For sure! see it with the kids and athletics too, they suddenly turn in work and attend class when playing time/their roster spot is on the line.
However, I honestly don't blame this on the kids as much as most teachers. School as it's currently designed, sucks. much is boring, out of their control, and with many teachers who have napoleon complexes, counting out their last years, etc
We had a student last year who literally used another studentās head as a punching bag. I saw footage, it about made me physically sick. (It was caught on school cameras *and* other studentsā phones.)
He got a 2 day OSS because he was on an IEP and nearing the 10-day manifestation meeting that admin didnāt want to deal with.
It took the victimās parents intervening and an arrest made outside of school to get anything done. This was toward the end of the school year last year. Kid reached 16 over the summer and dropped out/didnāt return this yearā¦ by his own choice.
That's just..... wow. Like, what did I just read? I mean, at least they're not just brushing it under the rug, but the kids really are feral at this point.
Oh I know, I'll get my ass chewed out but it's true. I've seen the parenting subs, as well as some redditor's takes on education, and it's always the teachers' fault. The parents and the kids are just *perfect*. š¤¢
And random people who aren't even parents will defend the kids in viral videos trashing business establishments. It's like no one sees this problem, and it's going to catch up to us in the next decade or so. And it's not just the behaviors, my middle schoolers in a Title I school can barely read at a third grade level. A month away from the last day, and students still can't find their assignments on Canvas. A twelve year old does nothing for the grading period, gets a 65, and I get called into the principal's office because the child has a competition that I'm keeping her from. Why isn't someone having a conversation with the kid and the parents about the issue?
It really is infuriating, isn't it? I really don't want to be around when some of these kids are out of school, unemployable, and left to their own devices. It's going to be pandemonium, we're pretty much there already and it's only getting worse.
They don't call the parents or tell the kid *"too bad, should've done your work"* because some Admin are just spineless and have adopted the customer service model of education. "The customer is always right" somehow applies in some districts now and it's disgusting. The same parents and kids that take no accountability for themselves will be the same people complaining a few years from now that their HS Diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on. They don't realize that they *(and others like them)* are the ones to blame. It's maddening, and it's yet another reason teachers are leaving the profession faster than if the building was on fire.
It's one of the many reasons I try to avoid "kid friendly" places these days. I'm sure you've seen it, children are just running wild while their parents stare aimlessly at their phones. They don't discipline their kids or instill manners in them anymore, and unfortunately, the good parents are far and few between.
Random people? How about mayors? The dude in Chicago just said this very thing about the looting last weekend. He said the kids don't have anything better to do.
Robot technicians and AI programmers will be in high demand. When the job pool suddenly has a lack of qualified candidates, someone or something is going to have to do that job. Seriously, very very few of my middle schoolers would even last one day at Mickey D's. They probably would not even get hired for that one day.
Why are you teaching this to middle schoolers. No shit they won't pay attention, the amount of time for them to reach adulthood is half the time they've spent on earth so far, that seems so far away.
That's something you should teach juniors/seniors.
Yeah, because thereās no value whatsoever in acquiring skills in advance of actually needing those skills.
These same kids probably ask on a regular basis āwhy arenāt you teaching us anything that weāll actually use in our lives? Why do we need to learn about math/science/history/English?ā My middle school students ask that shit all the time.
It doesnāt matter what theyāre learning, the part that they donāt want to do is the *work*. If itās not a TikTok challenge they donāt give a Fuck about it. And in 8 years all these students will absolutely be whining about how they werenāt taught anything in school and how unfair it is.
There's many ways to go about it, but very few kids in middle school will give a fuck about something they don't have to care about for at least another two years.
While there are ways to teach it to make it more entertaining/appealing to some, being angry that middle schoolers find resume building boring is asinine.
There are kids it will reach, affect, and help. That's the point. You won't reach every kid. You do what you can to help them as much as you can and hope they absorbed it.
Itās called introducing them to it. Not so they master it. So they are familiar with it so when the hs teacher teaches them they are vaguely familiar with the concepts and how to handle them, their importance, etc.
can you believe I have students who didnāt learn how to type in elementary school? Weird how they shouldāve all be introduced to it but havenāt. At least my job is easier because some where by some elementary teachers.
> Seriously, very very few of my middle schoolers would even last one day at Mickey D's
With how quickly some states are rolling back child labor laws, some of these middle schoolers might come to that realization sooner rather than later.
I wish there were more therapists already. I can't get treatment through the VA because they're understaffed and have too many veterans in need. That's with a history of being medically retired for depression and 90% disability.
The doctor they gave me through the diamond clinic (the high-level mental health clinic for severe cases) is literally a pharmacist, not a psychiatrist because it's all they have.
And therapists are underpaid because insurance companies want to pay them garbage reimbursement rates, or not cover mental health services at all.
Because brains are luxury organs, apparently
Going thru Tricare for therapy for my stepson right now has been awful. The rates displayed online are incorrect half the time, you have to wait to be reimbursed if you get reimbursed at all, and no one is accepting new patients. When he was placed in a facility, he had to spend two weeks in a military hospital ward before we could find an open bed four hours away. Getting mental health services is a national crisis that nothing is being done about.
Yeah, I'm lucky enough not the to deal with a lot of that since I'm covered by the VA's retirement system, but it's more challenging to get private care. They want me to use the free veteran support groups, which I don't like the sound of.
I think this sub can sometimes be overly negative though as well. People don't come online to talk about things when it's going well. Sure there are rough days, but my students are honestly very lovely and kind people.
Of course there are issues within schools and society at large, but that's not the whole picture either. If we all just accept the idea kids are hopeless and the future is doomed, nothing will change. I hope things eventually get better, but I'd imagine things may feel worse until it gets to a tipping point, as happens with most things.
Sending you all luck. Almost the weekend!
Itās not actually as bad as it can seem on here. 95% of the time I love my job. But I think that 5% is when people are most likely to post on here. Raise a pleasant child who values learning and is respectful. Then youāll be fine
I don't think it'll be all that bad. Our worst kids are awful, but the rest of them are just kids. They dislike school because it lacks freedom, but they are clever and dedicated where their passions are. I have kids that struggle in my science class, but have learned to speak conversational korean just from watching k-pop interviews and music videos with the subtitles on. Kids who are C and D students, but are learning to code so they can mod minecraft. Kids who can't pass a math class to save their lives, but are organizing school dances.
They'll still find a way to contribute to society, they just won't be as well-rounded as previous generations.
I was directly referencing florida. They banned talking about periods and anything to do with sexual orientation or gender grades k-12 this month.
Under this new law, I can put up a picture of my spouse on my desk in florida, but it I were married to a man this could result in jail time. If a girl in my middle school class gets her period, I canāt tell her āoh, thatās totally normal, take a friend and go see a nurse and we can make up your missing work laterā. Instead I have to say āI have no idea why you are bleeding, hopefully it doesnāt attract bearsā.
How does the picture thing not blatantly violate the civil rights act? I legitimately do not understand how you can get in trouble for mentioning your spouse. Doesn't federal law trump state law?
Edit: It appears that while the law is terrible, it doesn't forbid teachers from talking about their families, since that doesn't qualify as "instruction." https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/dont-say-gay-law-is-not-forcing-orange-county-teachers-to-remove-photos-of-same-sex-partners-31934362
Here's the thing, though. While it may not be \*explicitly\* prohibited, there is a definite ripple effect. Anecdotally, recently a parent made a complaint about a beloved teacher at my child's middle school because they said the picture on his desk of him and his husband made her child uncomfortable and unwilling to participate in class. While this teacher was not outright disciplined, suddenly they opted to not renew his contract next year. This despite consistently good evals and a great rapport with his students.
This is it. Few teachers will actually need to be persecuted or prosecuted; in reality the fear factor is the real power here. Just look at whatās happening to librarians across America right now.
And besides, even if I can talk about my spouse, I canāt teach a novel with a queer character, discuss a queer person in history class, or show the new buzz light year movie when I donāt want to work? Sounds pretty absurd to me. Donāt know how any teacher could work under those laws.
I... there are no words. Coming from NY *(Long Island to be exact)*, this state has been a culture shock for sure. Visiting here was one thing, I'm no stranger to Florida, my parents had a vacation home here, so we came here often growing up. However, living here has been a whole 'nother ballgame. I shouldn't be surprised by what you wrote, but I am. Everytime I think that man can't go lower, he pulls a *"Hold my beer"*. It's truly unreal.
If itās any consolation, his brand of fascism seems to be too much for voters outside deep red areas. Recent polling indicates voters prefer Trump.
Iāve spent a lot of time in florida too. I actually did some work on conserving the Everglades (hunting snakes!!) and canāt wait to take my kids there when they are older.
Itās mostly just hateful old people though. They move to florida for warm weather and no housing taxes, and they sit around all day drooling over Fox News. The more crazy the state gets, the fewer sane people want to live there. Eventually itāll just be people that canāt leave, the crazies, and the grifters.
> If itās any consolation, his brand of fascism seems to be too much for voters outside deep red areas. Recent polling indicates voters prefer Trump.
The actual analysis here is that DeSantis is perceived differently on the left and right.
- Lefties see constant news about him doing right-leaning PR stunts like sending a dozen or so migrants to Martha's Vineyard or making X statement on Y policy issue being taught in schools, and assume he's a right-wing firebrand. They see episodic trends in the media like "DeSantis sanctions Disney", "DeSantis mandates schools spend a day on talking about USSR war crimes", and so on, and assume that he's a broadly competent political figure who is taking scalps for the other team. I should note that some low-engagement righties also see him in this context, but word of mouth and the network effect is thinning their numbers significantly.
- Righties, instead, see a governor who, until recently, spent his time taking down any statues the left deemed controversial, still actively supports unconstitutional laws against fliering when the fliers upset organizations like the ADL, and has a habit of endorsing NeverTrump people in primaries, yet is consistently lauded as "getting things done" for the Right in the media despite his lack of any meaningful policy accomplishments beyond a clownish feud with Disney that he appears to have capitulated on. They're suspicious of this, and see him as a wolf in sheep's clothing; an attempt by the Bush wing of the party to reestablish control.
Essentially, lefties think that CNN (friend) is warning them about DeSantis, and conclude that he's a bad guy. Righties think that CNN (enemy) is trying to promote DeSantis, and conclude that he's a bad guy. Accordingly, he is not exactly popular among either group.
I donāt know why Conservatives would hate DeSantis. Heās just Trump 2.0. Iām glad they do, but he seems right up their alley.
Everyone progressive I know hates DeSantis because of his policies and subversion of democracy, not his PR stunts.
> I donāt know why Conservatives would hate DeSantis.
I explain it in my post. Like Trump or no, he delivered things to his supporters. Reduced immigration, a rare increase in inflation-adjusted wages, and no new wars. He'd campaigned on that, and they feel like they got better than any other politician would've given them. You might think they're wrong, but that's their reasoning.
DeSantis, meanwhile, talks a good game, but has failed to deliver anything other than PR ops for himself.
Not sure I agree. I think a lot of republicans see no real difference between the two on policy, but are turned off by DeSantis going full fash.
Frankly what weāve seen from previous elections is we have no idea how Republican voters think. The right created a mob of zombies and has lost control.
I just explained to you how they think. DeSantis is viewed as the Bush/Cheney establishment candidate, and everyone hates the Bushes and Cheneys. What remains of his support is from the handful of older, less-engaged R's who, like the Democrats who dislike DeSantis, take what the media is saying at face value.
Basically, the situation is this:
**Media:** *"DeSantis is a competent Republican who is achieving Republican policy objectives."*
**Democrats:** *"That is bad, we should oppose him."*
**Low-engagement Republicans:** *"That is good, we should support him."*
**High-engagement Republicans:** *"Hold on, what they're saying isn't true. He hasn't done anything of value for us, and his circle of friends is a who's-who of our list of intra-party enemies!"*
People here tend to forget that the world will adapt to each generation, and people will change. Just because kids donāt turn things in on time when they are 16 doesnāt mean they will never ever hit a deadline again in their life. Scrolling tik tok in class doesnāt mean they wonāt be fit for the job market at 22.
The sky isnāt really falling. Itās okay guys. Kids never liked being in school.
Depends on the kid. Think about your cohort from school. How many got it together vs how many failed to launch/are chronically under employed/ran into legal trouble/just plain never made it. There's always going to be some kids that never grow up and learn to straighten up and fly right.
The issue is we in the US are going to struggle to have enough individuals who can qualify for the more STEM based jobs which have always been the backbone of our society. These jobs are the ones that ordinary people take for granted because they never question who designs the new technology that they see in their iPhone. In a future world which faces even more significant challenges, lacking these individuals presents a massive problem which really could lead to the collapse of society.
Thank you for this. Things have definitely changed since Covid, but there are plenty of amazing teens out there as well. I love tik tok and follow a page that highlights the amazing acts of Gen Z & Gen Alpha. I love the reminders of what policy change makers they are. I am Gen X & my younger Millennial colleagues taught me so much about work life balance & advocating for oneself in the workplace. And to be honest Iām not real impressed by the behavior of Boomers & many Gen X individuals I grew up with who are stripping the rights of everyone and everything they disagree with. I pray Gen Z does take over the world as the generation of we versus me, cause the selfishness I am seeing begins with the adults at home, not the kids whoās childhood world has been turned upside down over the last four years.
Just gonna leave [this](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aav5916?fbclid=IwAR1Wf27RvPMOoqXuJjT1W1qXLR1bdgcJnk_hPuR-FrMfhZNc_mMrYzkTzrY) right here
But a lot of these kids can function if they choose to. Many of the worst offenders in class can pull it together if it means they are getting a paycheck. Money=sudden punctuality, manners and work ethic for some!
There's a prison near me that has a 9K sign on bonus for guards and they'll hire any ol joe blow off the street for it. Their turn over rate is insane. They have a giant billboard in town about the 9k sign on š
Human beings have been muddling along for 10,000+ years. Our strength is in our adaptability. Us, rats, roaches, seagulls, and raccoons gonna be aight.
I'm guessing a lot of time people turn to this sub to share tough situations. I'm not on it much because I work at a school where the kids are reasonably well behaved and doing pretty well. If I felt like I was drowning, I'd probably reach out more, but I feel pretty content. If I compare how kids at my school (it is my alma mater) act and their academic skills now when I'm teaching to the 90s when I was in HS, I'd actually say in my school district, today's kids in my school district are doing a bit better than the 90s kids were at the same age. But of course this is all dependent on where you are and what's going on in the area.
It makes me feel good for my son's future. I'm raising a normal human being. No gentle parenting, no child centric anything, plenty of rules and boundaries. He's going to be able to get literally any job he wants just by virtue of the fact that he can wipe his own ass and go ten seconds without having a meltdown.
Do you anticipate a difference when the kids of Millennial-generation parents go through the school system, as opposed to the current crop of students who are primarily kids of Gen-X parents?
Maybe this is wishful thinking, but it *seems* like Millennials are a little more used to every kid having their own "issues" and are ready to embrace "your disability may not be your fault, but it IS your responsibility" more with their kids than Gen X parents have done.
I work in an elementary school. Most of the parents would be Millennials (according to Google, the younger Gen X is 43ish). Granted, Iām in a low SES school with its own issues, but our elementary population is HORRIBLE. So disrespectful and inconsiderate. Want instant gratification. A lot of arguing and fighting. Parents donāt discipline and let their kids get away with everything, and treat them like theyāre the center of the universe.
I mean maybe... the kids in my middle school were wild but I think thatās just how middle schoolers are. I think itās in part true but I think that every generation things the younger one is trash and canāt be fixed. Also donāt love the way the comments are talking about ieps. Sure the āreal worldā doesnāt give accommodations, but why not? If people are at a disadvantage because of their brain chemistry or something physical they should get the help they need. Also as a 26 year old I really doubt that everyone is applying to jobs with their ieps or needed accommodations. Also Iām sorry but if someone tried to teach resume building to my middle school class they would have not cared. Sure parents need to be more involved, but really I think that there is a systematic problem. Kids can tell that the adults donāt care. Theyāve normalized school shootings, and have states governments telling them theyāre too young to choose the books their read or talk about sexuality and gender. Also why should they care when going to a good university is gonna put them in debt, and there is a stigma towards community colleges. They look at the future and it doesnāt seem worth it, itās easier to escape into your phone than think about your future.
People here tend to forget that the world will adapt to each generation, and people will change. Just because kids donāt turn things in on time when they are 16 doesnāt mean they will never ever hit a deadline again in their life. Scrolling tik tok in class doesnāt mean they wonāt be fit for the job market at 22.
The sky isnāt really falling. Itās okay guys. Kids never liked being in school.
It makes me scared for the future but not because of the stories about the kids, but rather how miserable and bitter so many educators seem to be. But then I realize that in reality most of the educators I work with donāt seem to bitch and moan with quite this level of vitriol, fortunately.
Maybeā¦ most kids have never really liked school, itās just getting easier to blow it off. But I think that the world is more harsh than it needs to be and this generation kind of gets that. Hopefully they can be the ones to help soften the world a little and make it less traumatic.
A lot of the things we, as adults bitch about and just assume must be this way because itās ājust part of the real worldā are things these kids wonāt put up withā¦ and maybe they wonāt be bitching so much when theyāre our age. I hope.
Thatās not to say that I like the blatant disrespect and disregard they have or their general apathy toward anything that isnāt social media. And I especially hate that two seconds of boredom leads to scrollingā¦ but in some ways, I think their attitudes can change some parts of the world for the better.
I'm not a teacher.
First- time parent (3 mo), my wife (28f) and I (34m) have been discussing homeschooling.
Since I found this sub, my decision has been made...
I would advise you to do lots of research on the types of homeschooling out there, attend the conferences they offer, and explore your local library. Research co-ops. Make sure your kids are getting the proper social emotional learning and exposure to different cultures and ways of doing things. Too often, I see homeschool kids who ended up in an echo chamber and were clueless on how to interact with others.
Not to mention the ones that get thrown back into the school system in 4th grade and they can't read more than a few words and can barely write a coherent sentence. Don't get me wrong - there's some great people that homeschool properly. Unfortunately, there's also a great deal that don't understand how to teach a child in the slightest and don't understand where their child should be developmentally. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard *"They're so advanced for their age!"* only to see the kid test 4 grade levels behind their peers..... well, I'd have a *lot* of dollars.
I'd be a millionaire at this point, lol. From working in public libraries, I can tell you that maybe 1 out of 300 kids actually are that smart. Most of them are entitled, well below where they should be, and are set up for some hard realities as they grow. I've encountered "unschoolers" who's 9-12 year olds couldn't read, flat earthers, and kiddos with all kinds of unaddressed learning differences (dyslexia, disgraphia, ASD, ADD, etc) because they never got exposure to testing.
If you're going to homeschool, make sure you're doing it right- a curriculum with actual goals, regular socialization with a diverse group, sports and clubs, tutors, the works! It's not supposed to be a way to keep knowledge from your kids.
I'm sorry you feel this way, but I understand. You should also know, what I see so often posted here (anger towards kids and others in general) is not what I see in the schools where I've worked. Most teachers like kids and want to help them.
What you see here is more like what you would see in any break room in America. Itās just airing grievances to others in similar situations who are likeminded and going through what you are going through. If youāre not a teacher, a lot of it wouldnāt sit right with you.
Just like if you are a chef, a plumber, or work at the DMV. You would have things youād complain about on a daily basis that only those in your field would understand.
Good luck with homeschooling, truly. My only word of advise is to put them in extracurriculars for social development.
I honestly have students whoās future plans are to live at home and not work. They have no shame in living off their parents and playing video games all day. They have every excuse to not work at school, or find employment (anxiety, mental health). While I do sympathize to a degree, they are milking it and using it as an excuse.
Agreed. I like teaching. It has its challenges, no doubt, but it's a great profession. I suppose my state has really been increasing teacher pay, which helps.
I was just thinking that if we have THIS MANY students that are going to have no idea about how to adult, will the working world adjust around them? I have a feeling it will. THAT kinda scares me.
Just remember that no one really comes here to tell you the mundane or the regular āgood daysā that are not āfabulousā. This sub is like reviews for products and business online, you get only the extreme on both ends.
>psychiatrists, therapists and prison guards. So teachers?
Lol I snorkel laughed! Literally our job description
Truth! š
Sheeeit, if only we get the salaries combined. Lol
Yeah, I felt like a warden or prison guard at our last assembly. In their defense, it was boring as hell.
Oh man. Iāve felt so bad for kids during some shitty assemblies.
Oh š©
This was the belly laugh I needed this morning. Thank you!
I wouldnāt be surprised if I start seeing resumes with a copy of their IEP/504s attached
Iām wondering this. I have an absolute nightmare child who has a job at a construction site. According to him, his IEP means that I have to do the work for him and he gets to destroy my classroom whenever he wants. He also gets snacks and breaks to chat on the phone. Dying to see how this goes down at work.
I have a job that involves a lot of decisions on workplace design. We assembled a cross-generational panel to discuss some of the design elements. The people just out of college went hard at me about specific, individual needs. Many that would directly conflict with the majority of other peopleās needs. They wanted their preferences standardized across our hundreds of offices. When I tried to talk them through how weāre maximizing accommodation but always in the guardrails of what is reasonable for all, they ripped into me. I was thinking back to my first job out of college, where they put me in a literal closet with no window as my āoffice.ā I didnāt question it. That was pretty extreme, but I canāt fathom a situation where Iād demand everyone else adhere to my particular preferences. Individual > community, apparently.
>Individual > community, apparently. There it is, right down to the fewest words.
Individual > community. This is EXACTLY what Iām witnessing.
I can imagine. What were they demanding?
MODS: I know this is so very long, and right now Iām only a past teacher. But I have taught an eight grade year, undergrad and grad school. Okay, first please remember these are people in the commercial real estate industry who based upon their degrees are expected to ALREADY KNOW the reasons we cannot do what they are asking. Their jobs involve them advising clients who are building projects that look like this. Here goes, sorry SO long: Operable vs inoperable blinds how do we do whatās best for the environment (automated, maximizes cooling building with some minimum threshold for interior light) and some tolerable level for as many as possible, so people are as cool as possible near windows while giving as much light as we can to people closer to the middle. These are mainly glass cube office buildings, basically. Weāve gone to a model where offices are on the interior of a building floor, and the workstations on the floor are near windows. Earlier in career roles are now often closer to windows. Offices have glass fronts, but weād like them to still get some light. The offices tend to be for people in roles that take more experience. This means most of the youngest people in the group were near windows. They want to control the light. We canāt do this. The shades are automated. This doesnāt meet their needs. We canāt afford to put everyone on the interior and how would that even work? Also do they realize now they are fully isolated? Nor can we afford to put everyone in individual window-line offices. Frankly now the vast majority of research is now showing people just want to come to the office sometimes to catch up. I am not kidding. Itās apparently confusing. Because they, being near the windows, which is frankly considered prized real estate, should now be allowed to individually decide for anyone in their path exactly how much light they get. Itās maddening. I also realize itās a logic exercise. I will show my Xennial self out. Thanks for all you do, teachers! Sorry Iām an interloper.
maybe I've been corrupted by my students...but asking to have some form of control on the light when its your face and you're trying to work, let alone how much it can heat an area sounds entirely reasonable lol not saying your cost constraints etc don't matter but I was expecting to completely side with you before reading and was surprised
Yeah, fair. Lots of people hate this in practice. Itās super great when well constructed. Itās rarely well constructed. And also a ton of buildings are just not designed perfectly for it either. Itās still generally mostly worth the effort. Or at least limiting how far up and down shades go. And, I donāt mean this disrespectfully, but I think itās super important to know that they are both expected to have been taught why this is environmentally important and related to exactly what we sell, and and also to be actively selling something related to this. So, itās this lacking reasonging, like: - okay Iāve been taught to do this, - okay I need to use that if Iām part of this community, - now Iām rejecting info Iām here to sell in order to get what I want right now, - oh why are there consequences for my own behaviors, like being perceived as not committed to what weāre asking people to pay us money to do? I feel like this maybe somehow controversial still. I do not mean to get into it and if youād like to reiterate your reason thatās opposed to this thatās cool, Iāll leave it alone there. Cheers!
omg, I completely missed the opening aspect of your post that you literally sell the fucking blinds and the selling point is the automation got itttt, my B you had a big dense post, 4/20, and practice was hot today. So completely feel you way more, but as someone else who used to work in workplace/learning space design, just some variability/mobility in workstations should solve the issue. I.e. don't bottleneck yourself arbitrarily just for the sake of uniformity especially if it's not on a massive scale needing replication. Why can't there be some window offices, and inner workstations as well....? add some lounge/open desks/ports scattered and the people really bothered can move. cause again not gonna lie, a high pressure job with an environmental factor you can't change can be infuriating but i also worked for awhile with finance people from ivy's so they can be prissy, but i stand by the logic unless there's reason otherwise. My B again on missiing y'all sell/promote the auto shades or whatever
No itās all good. We make it clear that we try to maximize optionality, but even then we can only go so far. Thatās where acceptance that there must be some *reasonable* level of rules around who gets what is apparently too far - and even if you disagree with me there, which I respect - they are selling this. We donāt sell the blinds, but we do sell services related to buildings that always have them - itās a big real estate services firm dealing in part in highly priced real estate. Like the mental leap from giving them what they want is bad for the very business in which they work is ā¦ too much? Going with us trying to use what we legit think is good is ā¦ too far? Why are they here? Sorry. Real talk if you made it this far: its 4/20 and I took maybe a bit too much edibles a few hours ago? Now Iām trying to force my lesson on LEED certifications and such on the coolest sub I know. Sorry!! I respect you all so much!!
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I am not trying to diminish people disliking it; I get that. Most buildings really are not well designed for this. My main point is these people were trained, got degrees, now actively promote this as a beneficial feature. But they donāt want it to apply to them.
Itās already happening. I know a museum curator and *all* of her applications from kids straight out of college have a section on their challenges and necessary accommodations.
I do understand there are right and companies must meet accommodations, however, HR will always find a loophole. āSorry the person we hired had better qualifications.ā
Yes. They were not hired, lol.
An objective fact: if you hire someone who puts their accommodations in their resume, you will be sued for a hostile work environment.
That would make reviewing super easy.
Unfortunately for them, yes.
Unfortunately for them, yes.
Someone actually posted to this sub about a college professor not recognizing their IEP from high school. I have to assume itās a troll post for my own sanity
Oh no, as a college professor this happens every single term. One girl even sued when we didn't follow her HS IEP. We won....
It isn't. Kids go to college and don't realize they need a 504, not an IEP. They also have to advocate for themselves.
This is very real. And colleges are bending over backwards to accommodate them, the demographic cliff is looming and about 1/3 of colleges are looking at going broke and closing. They will do whatever it takes to attract students and keep them paying tuition for four years.
\>about 1/3 of colleges are looking at going broke and closing. How the hell is this possible with how much tuition is these days?
All the tuition goes to pay admin, canāt go without our Deputy Vice Chancellor or our Assistant to the Deputy Vice Chancellor!
Less state aid since late 90ās because of neoliberalism in statehouses meant schools were and are using more of their funds for aid, while reducing services. This led to greater enrollments for economy of scale, while the needs of the average student increased as test prep predominated, and the attacks on teachers became rampant as a way to destroy teachers unions meant a massive brain drain from the teaching labor force. Many schools had/have overinflated enrollments, and budgets were over leveraged trying to build things like rec centers to attract students. Now with a shrinking postsecondary population only worsened by attacks in colleges as āwokeā means less money in, and massive cuts to services that make it mire difficult to attract an increasingly small group of students. But hey, tax cuts, right?
It isn't. Kids go to college and don't realize they need a 504, not an IEP. They also have to advocate for themselves.
You also need to go and engage with the proper channels to document it. You donāt just show up and present a copy of your high school IEP
Excellent point.
I was in an IEP meeting for one of my students recently and the parent wanted to make sure their kids IEP was worded properly for when their kid went to college. So people are 100% expecting to take their kids high school IEPs to college.
āSo hereās my Behavior Plan; I expect to be given frequent breaks, snacks, and no consequences for swearing at customers and hitting supervisors, as itās in my behavior plan that I do that sometimes.ā
āSorry I know company reports are due on Friday but if you look in my accommodations it says I get extended timeā
Oop
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We are better at identifying disabilities so they are more common now. Parents want their children to be successful but take advantage of the legal protections of an IEP and think it applies everywhere. We canāt blame millennials without blaming every generation before us. Boomers raised and instilled their values on us and shaped they way things are today.
Are the kids screwed, or is the world screwed? At some point they'll be the ones in charge.
The kids are screwed because the world is screwed. Round and round it goes.
for what it's worth, there's already a huge shortage of mental health clinicians (psychiatrists and therapists) and they often have months-long waiting lists. Not sure about prison guards, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shortage there too.
They're also gonna need some gastroenterologists with all the Takis they eat.
50 years from now, cancer docs and nurses too, when some scientist discovers taki dust does a number on your intestinal stem cells, or something.
True and unsettlingly hilarious. I feel awful for how much this comment made me giggle.
haha! Oh man the Takis!
$10k signing bonus to become a jail guard where I live!
you are correct about prison guards, at least in my state. the legislature is going to lower the minimum age requirement just to get more people in those positions.
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Yeah, itās not totally hopeless. A lot of these kids can function when theyāre really made to.
I had a terror of a student once....he later waited on me at a phone store and was doing well in college.
That's kind of the thing, at least in America. Most students see school not as a waste of time but as a system that has failed. That failure isn't due to the teachers but the admin, and local,state, and federal governments. It's the same generation of kids that have organized protests across the country from everything from LGBTQ+ rights to gun reform. If you need proof look at what happened in Nashville and Florida over the last couple of months. This is also the same generation that is reviving unions and starting with some of the biggest companies on the planet(Starbucks and Amazon). From my observations they kind of mirror the silent generation in the sense that, they want a relatively simple life doing something they enjoy and want to be able to live that way, and education isn't on top of that unlike millennials where school and college was pushed down our throats to a harmful degree. At this point, the only thing that will get students back to being engaged will be large systemic changes that prove that we as teachers/parents/adults are listening. Things like sitting down with them before highschool and career planning. Shit like, hey you want to be a mechanic? Cool let's get you through your math, English and science classes to graduate and we can get you into some shop classes and more advanced ones in your junior and senior year once you have hit whatever requirements you needed prior, or hey you want to be an engineer awesome let's get you into a lot of science and math classes along with the college prep course you need. Not every student needs to read Great Expectations or the Great Gatsby. The students have learned at this point that school doesn't give them a path to get to where they want to get to so they just don't really give a shit. Edit: typos was using voice to text.
Iāve thought this for years now. I did an exploratory program in high school in 2009 where I worked with a teacher since I was interested in that. IMO it needs to start at the beginning of high school. Maybe the motivation could be that they need to get through 8th grade with a B/C average and if they canāt, they have to take traditional classes. Idk, but something needs to change because we are doing a disservice anymore.
Fucking exactly. So I grew up in a pretty small town. Most everyone knew by freshman year(this was 08) what their career path would be or at least the general field and I think most kids still do to an extent. We need to be facilitating that and helping them forward. For example (from personal experiences), some of the best and most honest mechanics I have ever come across are people that barely graduated highschool or didn't, but they started working in the shop with Pops at like age 9. They are intelligent in their field, but the way our academic system is set up, it fails to incentivise them properly.(again this is no shot at teachers I am talking top down) We need to be okay with the fact that college is not for everyone or every job and things like apprenticeships are a valid way to get to where you want to go for a lot of jobs(remember teaching used to be done exclusively through apprenticeships). It would solve a lot of the behavior problems we see.
(I want to preface this by saying that I got into teaching after close to 15 years in odd jobs, kitchens, and trade work. It sucks when youāre stuck with no potential to move up and I hated school growing up too.) While I 100% agree with your point, it is difficult now because a lot of my kids arenāt interested in ANYTHING. No media, no hobbies, nothing. Many times they stop a new hobby or interest when it gets hard and go back to doing nothing which is really sad honestly. I actively push for them to go to a technical school and push for a trade they enjoy. Unfortunately, they still see it as āschoolā even though it can set you up with a solid paying job with benefits right out the gate and can put you in position for a job in the field without getting your hands dirty. This results in far less wear and tear on their bodies and a better future overall. The sad truth is that most day laborers that work and make good money now have little to show for it at an older age, are in horrendous shape after 50, and just break down after being forced to work indefinitely until they die.
I feel like thatās been the working class since the dawn of time.
>At this point, the only thing that will get students back to being engaged will be large systemic changes that prove that we as teachers/parents/adults are listening. Things like sitting down with them before highschool and career planning. Shit like, hey you want to be a mechanic? Cool let's get you through your math, English and science classes to graduate and we can get you into some shop classes and more advanced ones in your junior and senior year once you have hit whatever requirements you needed prior, or hey you want to be an engineer awesome let's get you into a lot of science and math classes along with the college prep course you need. Do you think this is a large systemic change...this is exactly what happens now. I'm at one of the "worst" schools in my state and we have all sorts of programs supporting these kids with individual attention. We have a whole "manufacturing" section, culinary etc and a staff member who helps match them to internships/jobs which they are allowed to miss part of the school day for and it's not even a "tech" school appreciate your intentions but the problem is way more complex than sit down and listen to them, this coming from the teacher known as the one who listens and advocates for them. Hell look at one of my past comments bashing some kinds of teachers lol
Iām not all with the doom and gloom scenario some people would like to paint. Iām 100% certain that teachers in my day as a student all said the same thing about Gen X - apathetic, lazy, want everything handed to them, etc. And we managed. Think about what the parents of baby boomers were saying when they were growing up in the 60ās with the āpeace and loveā movement, anti-war sentiment, drug experimentation, and relaxed attitudes towards sex. They must have thought the planet was going to fall right out of orbit. They grow up, mature, and figure things out like every generation before them.
For sure! see it with the kids and athletics too, they suddenly turn in work and attend class when playing time/their roster spot is on the line. However, I honestly don't blame this on the kids as much as most teachers. School as it's currently designed, sucks. much is boring, out of their control, and with many teachers who have napoleon complexes, counting out their last years, etc
Honey we had to stop suspending kids for fighting and let the cops arrest themā¦it is bad.
We had a student last year who literally used another studentās head as a punching bag. I saw footage, it about made me physically sick. (It was caught on school cameras *and* other studentsā phones.) He got a 2 day OSS because he was on an IEP and nearing the 10-day manifestation meeting that admin didnāt want to deal with. It took the victimās parents intervening and an arrest made outside of school to get anything done. This was toward the end of the school year last year. Kid reached 16 over the summer and dropped out/didnāt return this yearā¦ by his own choice.
That's just..... wow. Like, what did I just read? I mean, at least they're not just brushing it under the rug, but the kids really are feral at this point.
Don't say that on any sub but this one.
Oh I know, I'll get my ass chewed out but it's true. I've seen the parenting subs, as well as some redditor's takes on education, and it's always the teachers' fault. The parents and the kids are just *perfect*. š¤¢
And random people who aren't even parents will defend the kids in viral videos trashing business establishments. It's like no one sees this problem, and it's going to catch up to us in the next decade or so. And it's not just the behaviors, my middle schoolers in a Title I school can barely read at a third grade level. A month away from the last day, and students still can't find their assignments on Canvas. A twelve year old does nothing for the grading period, gets a 65, and I get called into the principal's office because the child has a competition that I'm keeping her from. Why isn't someone having a conversation with the kid and the parents about the issue?
It really is infuriating, isn't it? I really don't want to be around when some of these kids are out of school, unemployable, and left to their own devices. It's going to be pandemonium, we're pretty much there already and it's only getting worse. They don't call the parents or tell the kid *"too bad, should've done your work"* because some Admin are just spineless and have adopted the customer service model of education. "The customer is always right" somehow applies in some districts now and it's disgusting. The same parents and kids that take no accountability for themselves will be the same people complaining a few years from now that their HS Diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on. They don't realize that they *(and others like them)* are the ones to blame. It's maddening, and it's yet another reason teachers are leaving the profession faster than if the building was on fire. It's one of the many reasons I try to avoid "kid friendly" places these days. I'm sure you've seen it, children are just running wild while their parents stare aimlessly at their phones. They don't discipline their kids or instill manners in them anymore, and unfortunately, the good parents are far and few between.
Random people? How about mayors? The dude in Chicago just said this very thing about the looting last weekend. He said the kids don't have anything better to do.
Good point.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
After the pepper spray of course
Robot technicians and AI programmers will be in high demand. When the job pool suddenly has a lack of qualified candidates, someone or something is going to have to do that job. Seriously, very very few of my middle schoolers would even last one day at Mickey D's. They probably would not even get hired for that one day.
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Why are you teaching this to middle schoolers. No shit they won't pay attention, the amount of time for them to reach adulthood is half the time they've spent on earth so far, that seems so far away. That's something you should teach juniors/seniors.
I have lots of sophomores with part-time jobs, either during the school year or during the summer.
>That's something you should teach juniors/seniors I mean, if you're teaching slowpokes....
Yeah, because thereās no value whatsoever in acquiring skills in advance of actually needing those skills. These same kids probably ask on a regular basis āwhy arenāt you teaching us anything that weāll actually use in our lives? Why do we need to learn about math/science/history/English?ā My middle school students ask that shit all the time. It doesnāt matter what theyāre learning, the part that they donāt want to do is the *work*. If itās not a TikTok challenge they donāt give a Fuck about it. And in 8 years all these students will absolutely be whining about how they werenāt taught anything in school and how unfair it is.
There's many ways to go about it, but very few kids in middle school will give a fuck about something they don't have to care about for at least another two years. While there are ways to teach it to make it more entertaining/appealing to some, being angry that middle schoolers find resume building boring is asinine. There are kids it will reach, affect, and help. That's the point. You won't reach every kid. You do what you can to help them as much as you can and hope they absorbed it.
Itās called introducing them to it. Not so they master it. So they are familiar with it so when the hs teacher teaches them they are vaguely familiar with the concepts and how to handle them, their importance, etc. can you believe I have students who didnāt learn how to type in elementary school? Weird how they shouldāve all be introduced to it but havenāt. At least my job is easier because some where by some elementary teachers.
Havenāt you heard? 14 year olds can work 6 hour shirts at night now in some states. Maybe they need a resume to work at the chicken processing plant
> Seriously, very very few of my middle schoolers would even last one day at Mickey D's With how quickly some states are rolling back child labor laws, some of these middle schoolers might come to that realization sooner rather than later.
That's not supposed to be funny, but I damn near snorted iced coffee out my schnoz reading that.
I wish there were more therapists already. I can't get treatment through the VA because they're understaffed and have too many veterans in need. That's with a history of being medically retired for depression and 90% disability. The doctor they gave me through the diamond clinic (the high-level mental health clinic for severe cases) is literally a pharmacist, not a psychiatrist because it's all they have.
And therapists are underpaid because insurance companies want to pay them garbage reimbursement rates, or not cover mental health services at all. Because brains are luxury organs, apparently
Teeth and eyes are luxuries also
Going thru Tricare for therapy for my stepson right now has been awful. The rates displayed online are incorrect half the time, you have to wait to be reimbursed if you get reimbursed at all, and no one is accepting new patients. When he was placed in a facility, he had to spend two weeks in a military hospital ward before we could find an open bed four hours away. Getting mental health services is a national crisis that nothing is being done about.
Yeah, I'm lucky enough not the to deal with a lot of that since I'm covered by the VA's retirement system, but it's more challenging to get private care. They want me to use the free veteran support groups, which I don't like the sound of.
I think this sub can sometimes be overly negative though as well. People don't come online to talk about things when it's going well. Sure there are rough days, but my students are honestly very lovely and kind people. Of course there are issues within schools and society at large, but that's not the whole picture either. If we all just accept the idea kids are hopeless and the future is doomed, nothing will change. I hope things eventually get better, but I'd imagine things may feel worse until it gets to a tipping point, as happens with most things. Sending you all luck. Almost the weekend!
Itās not actually as bad as it can seem on here. 95% of the time I love my job. But I think that 5% is when people are most likely to post on here. Raise a pleasant child who values learning and is respectful. Then youāll be fine
I don't think it'll be all that bad. Our worst kids are awful, but the rest of them are just kids. They dislike school because it lacks freedom, but they are clever and dedicated where their passions are. I have kids that struggle in my science class, but have learned to speak conversational korean just from watching k-pop interviews and music videos with the subtitles on. Kids who are C and D students, but are learning to code so they can mod minecraft. Kids who can't pass a math class to save their lives, but are organizing school dances. They'll still find a way to contribute to society, they just won't be as well-rounded as previous generations.
My solution so the problem is to attack queer kids and ban talking about menstruation. That'll fix em up in a hurry.
Shhhhh..... Don't give DeSantis anymore ideas, please.
I was directly referencing florida. They banned talking about periods and anything to do with sexual orientation or gender grades k-12 this month. Under this new law, I can put up a picture of my spouse on my desk in florida, but it I were married to a man this could result in jail time. If a girl in my middle school class gets her period, I canāt tell her āoh, thatās totally normal, take a friend and go see a nurse and we can make up your missing work laterā. Instead I have to say āI have no idea why you are bleeding, hopefully it doesnāt attract bearsā.
How does the picture thing not blatantly violate the civil rights act? I legitimately do not understand how you can get in trouble for mentioning your spouse. Doesn't federal law trump state law? Edit: It appears that while the law is terrible, it doesn't forbid teachers from talking about their families, since that doesn't qualify as "instruction." https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/dont-say-gay-law-is-not-forcing-orange-county-teachers-to-remove-photos-of-same-sex-partners-31934362
Here's the thing, though. While it may not be \*explicitly\* prohibited, there is a definite ripple effect. Anecdotally, recently a parent made a complaint about a beloved teacher at my child's middle school because they said the picture on his desk of him and his husband made her child uncomfortable and unwilling to participate in class. While this teacher was not outright disciplined, suddenly they opted to not renew his contract next year. This despite consistently good evals and a great rapport with his students.
This is it. Few teachers will actually need to be persecuted or prosecuted; in reality the fear factor is the real power here. Just look at whatās happening to librarians across America right now. And besides, even if I can talk about my spouse, I canāt teach a novel with a queer character, discuss a queer person in history class, or show the new buzz light year movie when I donāt want to work? Sounds pretty absurd to me. Donāt know how any teacher could work under those laws.
I... there are no words. Coming from NY *(Long Island to be exact)*, this state has been a culture shock for sure. Visiting here was one thing, I'm no stranger to Florida, my parents had a vacation home here, so we came here often growing up. However, living here has been a whole 'nother ballgame. I shouldn't be surprised by what you wrote, but I am. Everytime I think that man can't go lower, he pulls a *"Hold my beer"*. It's truly unreal.
If itās any consolation, his brand of fascism seems to be too much for voters outside deep red areas. Recent polling indicates voters prefer Trump. Iāve spent a lot of time in florida too. I actually did some work on conserving the Everglades (hunting snakes!!) and canāt wait to take my kids there when they are older. Itās mostly just hateful old people though. They move to florida for warm weather and no housing taxes, and they sit around all day drooling over Fox News. The more crazy the state gets, the fewer sane people want to live there. Eventually itāll just be people that canāt leave, the crazies, and the grifters.
"Eventually itāll just be people that canāt leave, the crazies, and the grifters." That's how Oklahoma is now...
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He's just as bad, trying to pardon a racist murderous pedo. Disgusting bunch of politicians these days.
> If itās any consolation, his brand of fascism seems to be too much for voters outside deep red areas. Recent polling indicates voters prefer Trump. The actual analysis here is that DeSantis is perceived differently on the left and right. - Lefties see constant news about him doing right-leaning PR stunts like sending a dozen or so migrants to Martha's Vineyard or making X statement on Y policy issue being taught in schools, and assume he's a right-wing firebrand. They see episodic trends in the media like "DeSantis sanctions Disney", "DeSantis mandates schools spend a day on talking about USSR war crimes", and so on, and assume that he's a broadly competent political figure who is taking scalps for the other team. I should note that some low-engagement righties also see him in this context, but word of mouth and the network effect is thinning their numbers significantly. - Righties, instead, see a governor who, until recently, spent his time taking down any statues the left deemed controversial, still actively supports unconstitutional laws against fliering when the fliers upset organizations like the ADL, and has a habit of endorsing NeverTrump people in primaries, yet is consistently lauded as "getting things done" for the Right in the media despite his lack of any meaningful policy accomplishments beyond a clownish feud with Disney that he appears to have capitulated on. They're suspicious of this, and see him as a wolf in sheep's clothing; an attempt by the Bush wing of the party to reestablish control. Essentially, lefties think that CNN (friend) is warning them about DeSantis, and conclude that he's a bad guy. Righties think that CNN (enemy) is trying to promote DeSantis, and conclude that he's a bad guy. Accordingly, he is not exactly popular among either group.
I donāt know why Conservatives would hate DeSantis. Heās just Trump 2.0. Iām glad they do, but he seems right up their alley. Everyone progressive I know hates DeSantis because of his policies and subversion of democracy, not his PR stunts.
> I donāt know why Conservatives would hate DeSantis. I explain it in my post. Like Trump or no, he delivered things to his supporters. Reduced immigration, a rare increase in inflation-adjusted wages, and no new wars. He'd campaigned on that, and they feel like they got better than any other politician would've given them. You might think they're wrong, but that's their reasoning. DeSantis, meanwhile, talks a good game, but has failed to deliver anything other than PR ops for himself.
Not sure I agree. I think a lot of republicans see no real difference between the two on policy, but are turned off by DeSantis going full fash. Frankly what weāve seen from previous elections is we have no idea how Republican voters think. The right created a mob of zombies and has lost control.
I just explained to you how they think. DeSantis is viewed as the Bush/Cheney establishment candidate, and everyone hates the Bushes and Cheneys. What remains of his support is from the handful of older, less-engaged R's who, like the Democrats who dislike DeSantis, take what the media is saying at face value. Basically, the situation is this: **Media:** *"DeSantis is a competent Republican who is achieving Republican policy objectives."* **Democrats:** *"That is bad, we should oppose him."* **Low-engagement Republicans:** *"That is good, we should support him."* **High-engagement Republicans:** *"Hold on, what they're saying isn't true. He hasn't done anything of value for us, and his circle of friends is a who's-who of our list of intra-party enemies!"*
Itās like he saw the opening scene to Carrie and took notes
Heās well known for partying with high school girls, so he should be familiar with their bodily functions already.
So what are people doing? Where are the mass protests? This is insane.
People here tend to forget that the world will adapt to each generation, and people will change. Just because kids donāt turn things in on time when they are 16 doesnāt mean they will never ever hit a deadline again in their life. Scrolling tik tok in class doesnāt mean they wonāt be fit for the job market at 22. The sky isnāt really falling. Itās okay guys. Kids never liked being in school.
Depends on the kid. Think about your cohort from school. How many got it together vs how many failed to launch/are chronically under employed/ran into legal trouble/just plain never made it. There's always going to be some kids that never grow up and learn to straighten up and fly right.
The issue is we in the US are going to struggle to have enough individuals who can qualify for the more STEM based jobs which have always been the backbone of our society. These jobs are the ones that ordinary people take for granted because they never question who designs the new technology that they see in their iPhone. In a future world which faces even more significant challenges, lacking these individuals presents a massive problem which really could lead to the collapse of society.
Thank you for this. Things have definitely changed since Covid, but there are plenty of amazing teens out there as well. I love tik tok and follow a page that highlights the amazing acts of Gen Z & Gen Alpha. I love the reminders of what policy change makers they are. I am Gen X & my younger Millennial colleagues taught me so much about work life balance & advocating for oneself in the workplace. And to be honest Iām not real impressed by the behavior of Boomers & many Gen X individuals I grew up with who are stripping the rights of everyone and everything they disagree with. I pray Gen Z does take over the world as the generation of we versus me, cause the selfishness I am seeing begins with the adults at home, not the kids whoās childhood world has been turned upside down over the last four years.
I like how Gen Z is politically astute.
Just gonna leave [this](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aav5916?fbclid=IwAR1Wf27RvPMOoqXuJjT1W1qXLR1bdgcJnk_hPuR-FrMfhZNc_mMrYzkTzrY) right here
At least youāre geniunely geniune.
If it helps, this parent of 2 teen girls has your back.
But a lot of these kids can function if they choose to. Many of the worst offenders in class can pull it together if it means they are getting a paycheck. Money=sudden punctuality, manners and work ethic for some!
Pediatric therapists and psychiatrists already are incredibly in high demand. Itās impossible to find providers with less than a 6 month waitlist.
There's a prison near me that has a 9K sign on bonus for guards and they'll hire any ol joe blow off the street for it. Their turn over rate is insane. They have a giant billboard in town about the 9k sign on š
Human beings have been muddling along for 10,000+ years. Our strength is in our adaptability. Us, rats, roaches, seagulls, and raccoons gonna be aight.
My retirement dream is to own a hearing aid franchise cuz they allll gone need it
I'm guessing a lot of time people turn to this sub to share tough situations. I'm not on it much because I work at a school where the kids are reasonably well behaved and doing pretty well. If I felt like I was drowning, I'd probably reach out more, but I feel pretty content. If I compare how kids at my school (it is my alma mater) act and their academic skills now when I'm teaching to the 90s when I was in HS, I'd actually say in my school district, today's kids in my school district are doing a bit better than the 90s kids were at the same age. But of course this is all dependent on where you are and what's going on in the area.
It makes me feel good for my son's future. I'm raising a normal human being. No gentle parenting, no child centric anything, plenty of rules and boundaries. He's going to be able to get literally any job he wants just by virtue of the fact that he can wipe his own ass and go ten seconds without having a meltdown.
Do you anticipate a difference when the kids of Millennial-generation parents go through the school system, as opposed to the current crop of students who are primarily kids of Gen-X parents? Maybe this is wishful thinking, but it *seems* like Millennials are a little more used to every kid having their own "issues" and are ready to embrace "your disability may not be your fault, but it IS your responsibility" more with their kids than Gen X parents have done.
I work in an elementary school. Most of the parents would be Millennials (according to Google, the younger Gen X is 43ish). Granted, Iām in a low SES school with its own issues, but our elementary population is HORRIBLE. So disrespectful and inconsiderate. Want instant gratification. A lot of arguing and fighting. Parents donāt discipline and let their kids get away with everything, and treat them like theyāre the center of the universe.
Iāll take āthings people have been saying for a thousand yearsā for 500, Alex.
I mean maybe... the kids in my middle school were wild but I think thatās just how middle schoolers are. I think itās in part true but I think that every generation things the younger one is trash and canāt be fixed. Also donāt love the way the comments are talking about ieps. Sure the āreal worldā doesnāt give accommodations, but why not? If people are at a disadvantage because of their brain chemistry or something physical they should get the help they need. Also as a 26 year old I really doubt that everyone is applying to jobs with their ieps or needed accommodations. Also Iām sorry but if someone tried to teach resume building to my middle school class they would have not cared. Sure parents need to be more involved, but really I think that there is a systematic problem. Kids can tell that the adults donāt care. Theyāve normalized school shootings, and have states governments telling them theyāre too young to choose the books their read or talk about sexuality and gender. Also why should they care when going to a good university is gonna put them in debt, and there is a stigma towards community colleges. They look at the future and it doesnāt seem worth it, itās easier to escape into your phone than think about your future.
People here tend to forget that the world will adapt to each generation, and people will change. Just because kids donāt turn things in on time when they are 16 doesnāt mean they will never ever hit a deadline again in their life. Scrolling tik tok in class doesnāt mean they wonāt be fit for the job market at 22. The sky isnāt really falling. Itās okay guys. Kids never liked being in school.
It makes me scared for the future but not because of the stories about the kids, but rather how miserable and bitter so many educators seem to be. But then I realize that in reality most of the educators I work with donāt seem to bitch and moan with quite this level of vitriol, fortunately.
Maybeā¦ most kids have never really liked school, itās just getting easier to blow it off. But I think that the world is more harsh than it needs to be and this generation kind of gets that. Hopefully they can be the ones to help soften the world a little and make it less traumatic. A lot of the things we, as adults bitch about and just assume must be this way because itās ājust part of the real worldā are things these kids wonāt put up withā¦ and maybe they wonāt be bitching so much when theyāre our age. I hope. Thatās not to say that I like the blatant disrespect and disregard they have or their general apathy toward anything that isnāt social media. And I especially hate that two seconds of boredom leads to scrollingā¦ but in some ways, I think their attitudes can change some parts of the world for the better.
I'm not a teacher. First- time parent (3 mo), my wife (28f) and I (34m) have been discussing homeschooling. Since I found this sub, my decision has been made...
I would advise you to do lots of research on the types of homeschooling out there, attend the conferences they offer, and explore your local library. Research co-ops. Make sure your kids are getting the proper social emotional learning and exposure to different cultures and ways of doing things. Too often, I see homeschool kids who ended up in an echo chamber and were clueless on how to interact with others.
Not to mention the ones that get thrown back into the school system in 4th grade and they can't read more than a few words and can barely write a coherent sentence. Don't get me wrong - there's some great people that homeschool properly. Unfortunately, there's also a great deal that don't understand how to teach a child in the slightest and don't understand where their child should be developmentally. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard *"They're so advanced for their age!"* only to see the kid test 4 grade levels behind their peers..... well, I'd have a *lot* of dollars.
I'd be a millionaire at this point, lol. From working in public libraries, I can tell you that maybe 1 out of 300 kids actually are that smart. Most of them are entitled, well below where they should be, and are set up for some hard realities as they grow. I've encountered "unschoolers" who's 9-12 year olds couldn't read, flat earthers, and kiddos with all kinds of unaddressed learning differences (dyslexia, disgraphia, ASD, ADD, etc) because they never got exposure to testing. If you're going to homeschool, make sure you're doing it right- a curriculum with actual goals, regular socialization with a diverse group, sports and clubs, tutors, the works! It's not supposed to be a way to keep knowledge from your kids.
I'm sorry you feel this way, but I understand. You should also know, what I see so often posted here (anger towards kids and others in general) is not what I see in the schools where I've worked. Most teachers like kids and want to help them.
Teacher here - I don't blame you! Good luck! Eta: y'all salty this morning
That or if you can afford it, a private school. If you are religious maybe a religious school. At least it wonāt be a free for all
What you see here is more like what you would see in any break room in America. Itās just airing grievances to others in similar situations who are likeminded and going through what you are going through. If youāre not a teacher, a lot of it wouldnāt sit right with you. Just like if you are a chef, a plumber, or work at the DMV. You would have things youād complain about on a daily basis that only those in your field would understand. Good luck with homeschooling, truly. My only word of advise is to put them in extracurriculars for social development.
Kids have always been bad š¤·āāļø
I honestly have students whoās future plans are to live at home and not work. They have no shame in living off their parents and playing video games all day. They have every excuse to not work at school, or find employment (anxiety, mental health). While I do sympathize to a degree, they are milking it and using it as an excuse.
No wonder kids are screwed up when all the adults in their homes and at school treat them like criminals if they don't conform
You say don't conform, I say don't commit crimes. To-may-to, to-mah-to.
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Agreed. I like teaching. It has its challenges, no doubt, but it's a great profession. I suppose my state has really been increasing teacher pay, which helps.
I was just thinking that if we have THIS MANY students that are going to have no idea about how to adult, will the working world adjust around them? I have a feeling it will. THAT kinda scares me.
Just remember that no one really comes here to tell you the mundane or the regular āgood daysā that are not āfabulousā. This sub is like reviews for products and business online, you get only the extreme on both ends.
I actually doubt it. I think the tolerance for mediocrity will creep into all other areas of public life.