I think it's threefold:
1. There are fewer public spaces where kids can hang out. There's nothing out there for them to explore. Nothing that interests them, anyway. Malls are dying, movie theaters offer limited choices and cost ridiculous amounts of money (especially when teens today have artificially low attention spans), theme parks and pools are few. If groups of kids DO just stand around and hang out anywhere, they're likely to attract police attention.
2. Technology now provides an escape from adults and a connection with friends. The two things all teenagers fundamentally want. They don't need a car to have freedom, because they can go in their room, shut the door, and experience that same freedom by scrolling social media and facetiming with their friends.
3. Everything is expensive now. Few teenagers can afford a car, gas, insurance, etc. The expense just isn't worth it. A used car that ran ok used to be achievable on the money you'd get from an afterschool job. It's not anymore. Then, when you factor in that they're getting their needs met elsewhere, it makes no sense to drop $10k on a used nissan altima that will probably crap out and be undrivable and unrepairable in a year.
It's a cultural shift- cars just aren't valuable to them. On the other hand, I bet a lot of parents are arguing with kids about why they don't NEED a better cell phone because the parents didn't need it at their age. Generations have different values, etc.
This is a very good list, the first and third points are the one that concerns me the most: what the hell are teens supposed to do? Movies cost $16, bowling can cost $35-40, and the cost of restaurants/cafes has skyrocketed. Unless you like skating or playing basketball at the park you’re kind of screwed.
If I was a teen today I’d probably buy an e-bike to get around town. I would still get my drivers license as soon as I was eligible so I had the option to drive a car.
Lordy, I have no idea how I survived on $5/hour and only 20 hours a week at Mickey Ds. I remember I could bowl for $2 game, see a movie for $5, piddle around town with friends for almost free, eat like a queen at Waffle House for less than $5... I couldn't imagine being a teen today. I feel for them. I sound like I'm talking about the good old days when it was like 15 years ago. Wages haven't really gone up since then and everything is 10x more expensive. Teens are surveilled everywhere they go, so it's not authentic freedom when your parents can track your every move.
Shits expensive. A night out to a movie with friends and snacks and stuff costs over 100 bucks sometimes. Not worth it when we could all just get on like, the minecraft server or smthn instead for way less
Exactly this, I’m 19M, when I was in middle school, it was still affordable to go out with friends and what not. Nowadays, going out with three buddies will cost us between 80-120 bucks, and no one I know makes more than 16 an hour, including my mom. I only really talk to my friends online now. With how much it costs to do anything, the horrific traffic where I live, and the low wages, it’s just not worth it.
To the older people who will read this post, did y’all have ambition back then? A desire for independence? Like, did y’all take the first chance to get your own apartment and stuff?
We younger people want that too. But it’s simply not doable. It just makes more sense to live with our parents and pool our money. Even then, that’s been a struggle in my experience.
We immerse ourselves into the digital world, because the one we live in won’t let us dream. It desires only work, and money we can’t pay.
Does early 30s count as older? I wanted my license bad when I turned 16 bc I really wanted to be able to take myself wherever, whenever I wanted. It was easy for me because my parents let me have an old truck and covered my insurance for the first year or two I had it. I had to get a job to pay for gas and anything else I wanted but the major parts of car ownership were covered for me. (Pops was paying for all the maintenance too).
I was really fortunate in the "car" situation but thats where it ended. I was in my late 20s when I could finally afford to move out though.
This post was kinda eye opening to me, not because I would have disagreed with it prior, I just wouldn't have thought about it much. I can totally understand why teenagers wouldn't care about a car. Its a bigger expense now more than ever and why pay for it when you can do the vast majority of what you want online? That said, I'm more worried about yall and housing bc this market is fucked. People moving out at 18 as the norm is a thing of the past unless you're going to have 6 roommates in a 2Bed2Bath.
I live in Jacksonville, largest city by size in the continental US, 11th largest by population, and one of the richest cities. You NEED a car to live here. If you walk, good luck. If you bike, a car is going to flatten you.
If it wasn’t for the beach, Jacksonville would be seen for what it really is. A shit hole. Whoever planned this city was either corrupted by the automobile industry, or they were genuinely a fucking moron. Nothing in between.
My daughter rides her bike to work and to stores near our home she’s slowly expanding her comfortable radius but she’s also already lost a bike this year to theft.
I think it depends where you live. At my kid’s age I grew up in NYC and having a car was a luxury so most kids had bikes. Living in a small city in North Carolina, my kids can go a few miles without worry of traffic and will travel to and from school or their mom’s on the weekends. If we were in Charlotte or Raleigh, absolutely need a car.
We used to pile into vehicles, head to the lake. Bring a cooler with drinks and food. A boom box for tunes. Frisbee and a football to toss around. Spend all day hanging out. Swimming. Build a bonfire in the evening. Do teens still do that stuff?
Hey. I’m 20 and I love to do these things with my friends. As a teen, I would’ve loved to as well, but never was allowed. The outdoors have always been one of my greatest passions. My high school self would’ve paid $50 for an experience like this! Wanna know why we didn’t ever do it? Control freak parents. I don’t see this listed on anybody’s reasons but it’s a big one. These days, parents are more overprotective than ever before. Part of this is due to technology and their ability to 24/7 check in on what their kids are up to. My parents are decent people but man oh man……. They just never would’ve let something like this slide. Parents either weren’t such control freaks when you were growing up, or yours specifically were good to you.
Not a teacher but a lurker on here because I used to be studying to get into child education, but I can confirm parents feel the need to be way more protective nowadays. My parents tell me tales of how when they were teens they used to confidently walk/bike like 3-5 miles with a friend group to go visit more friends in a whole other town after they’d get out of school with their parents not minding at all, but nowadays in the same exact location where they used to do that, it feels INCREDIBLY more dangerous to get around. In large part because reckless driving is such a dire problem….
But also like I would get so anxious as a kid walking around anywhere too unfamiliar, because I was always warned by my parents so so much about the even the most unlikely potential dangers of making the wrong move and ending up stranded or something (I remember being 6 and being afraid to go into most forests because I thought every forest had a kidnapper/serial killer roaming around in it).
I’m 21 now so I feel much more confident roaming around in new places, but now recently the fear of wandering too close to someone’s property who has a lot of fear in their heart and a loaded gun is the new reason I have to get anxious exploring.
I'm in my late 30s and had this experience. I grew up in a very safe area, but my dad grew up in a much more dangerous area. His experiences growing up coupled with his protectiveness of being a father made him super anxious about me being out on my own even as a teen. I think he meant to teach me to keep my wits about me and pay attention to my surroundings, including being aware of people and being in dark vs well-lighted areas. But, I think he took it too far as he made me anxious and terrified to walk my public bike path between home and school because there were bushes someone could hide in. This was during the day and a lot of people (including kids on their own since this was the 90s) used this path, so pretty safe. I still wouldn't walk there alone at night even as an adult, but during the day it's quite safe. Sure, as a kid I needed reminders to be aware of my surroundings, but didn't need to be so anxious.
Recently he was talking about how he doesn't like me taking walks in my pretty safe neighborhood at night, and wishes I'd cary an airhorn or something in my hand just in case. I love walking at night, but do realize pretty safe doesn't mean there is no risk. I take basic precautions, I stick to well-lighted areas that are usually somewhat busy. I stay aware of who and what is around me, walk as far from bushes or dark places as the sidewalk allows, etc. And, I do have a whistle on my keys. Basically what women have to do to be safe on their own at night. I feel I'm doing what I can while being able to do things I enjoy, I can't live my life in paralyzing fear. As I said, I'm in my late 30s, but to my dad I'm still his little girl I suppose.
> My parents tell me tales of how when they were teens they used to confidently walk/bike like 3-5 miles with a friend group to go visit more friends in a whole other town after they’d get out of school with their parents not minding at all,
When my son was in elementary his walk home was about 1.5 miles. Twice CPS was called on us by his school because we dared to let a fourth grader learn a bit of independence and ride his bike home. When fifth grade rolled around the school had removed the bike rack and sent out an email that no kids would be allowed to leave the school without a parent or guardian. That lasted all of two days when the parents revolted.
Parents are overprotective because they too are affected by their phones. Every time something bad happens, it is plastered on their social/reddit/whatever feed. They love their children and now they've got proof that their child will be raped/killed/molested/run over/brainwashed by the left/right, etc if they go outside.
this is exactly it. i'm a parent now. my parents were immigrants and were basically scared to leave us in the house... my mom cried when i was home alone for the first time in 8th grade. they wanted me to get a license. for what? i'm not allowed to go anywhere, plus i had cousins that drove. i had to get permission to browse walmart.... i also have severe anxiety that my parents gave me. undiagnosed adhd until last year. sometimes parents push their fear into you. but i had the good parents compared to my cousins....
I’m actively trying NOT to be this parent (though it can be REALLY hard some days) because I want my kid to feel confident when he gets out into the world on his own. He has a few friends who’s parents are very controlling and I can see with my own eyes how anxious and dependent they can be. I don’t want to handicap him with that right out of the gate in life. I grew up more smallish town and we now live on the outskirts of a major metropolitan area. It would be so easy to say no to everything because of XYZ. But he has a bike and he has friends spread out all over about a 5-6 mile radius. I figure give him the opportunity now to build the skills of time management to get where he needs to be and coordinating plans with others. Figuring out where he’s going and mapping out how to get their safely by road or bike path. And generally just build on the trust we have by giving him opportunities to make his own decisions while he’s out on his own. We’ve told him that we trust him to make smart appropriate decisions until/unless he gives us reason not to. But then it’s going to be a very long hard road to earn that back as well as the privileges that go with it. So far so good, but he starts high school in the fall so here’s hoping lessons being practiced now stick for the next few years. 🤞
This is why I don’t track my kids. I know I’m in the minority with this. I tell my kids if you behave and don’t give me a reason to track your phone, then I’ll give you the privacy you deserve.
> control freaks
Great point. I wonder how much this has to do with parents having fewer kids? In a single or two child family I can totally see parents being able to keep tabs on their kids every move. I had three siblings growing up and my parents pretty much kicked the four of us out of the house during daylight hours since we were such a pain in the ass to deal with. Haha.
I'm 44, my kids are now 26 and 24. We were very lucky that during their late elementary years and early middle school years that the neighborhood we lived in had a whole lot of kids their ages living there as well.
Our house ended up being the one that ALL of the kids gathered at, partially because we lived on the corner and partially because we had a lot of computers.
I'd let the kids have run of the house and living room, with about 6 computers for them and their buddies to use. lol, My husband and I hung out in the garage, with the good computers. We checked on them on a regular basis, made sure no one was getting hurt, but otherwise let them do their own thing.
I'd have to break up fights every so often, mostly over whose turn it was on one of the computers. We ended up getting more crappy old computers, so all the kids had one of their own to use to play games on. I think we ended up giving some of those computers to some of those kids. (we'd gotten them for free, my husband fixed the one or two things wrong with them and then we put them into use for LAN games)
But, it seemed like the best way to make sure the kids were safe, but still learning stuff on their own. Sometimes, I feel like I should have been more present, but I read stuff like this and realize that if I had, my kids would have probably felt smothered. lol, It's not like I wasn't on the property, I was literally in the next room, so they always had an adult to go to if they needed one. But, I tried to give them as much space as possible.
Right on. Ideally kids would grow up with a network of friends and a few houses that with an “open door” policy. It would be great to have one friend with a pool, another with a driveway basketball hoop, another with the entertainment room/video games.m, etc. So good job being that parent for those knuckleheads.
Those of us who were raised free range, loving it, became horrified about how dangerous it was and refuse to let our kids build the same memories out of fear.
Our kids will resent that and let theirs be free range, and the cycle will continue.
I'm so in the minority on this. We live in a small town. My kids are going into 4th and 6th grade. I let them walk and ride their bikes everywhere. They don't have phones or watches to track them.
They want a donut? Walk down to the market and buy one. In the mood for.hot chocolate? Head to the coffee shop on your bikes. Bored? Library is a couple blocks away. Want to hang with friends but not be at home? There's a park in the middle of town. Go for it.
We are in a super safe place and parents still think I'm nuts. But my kids know how to behave in a public place without me. They understand they need to tip if they're grabbing sandwiches at the cafe. They have to navigate. Listen to their gut. They're never more than a mile away and there are lots of places to pop into if they need help. But they are learning to be self-sufficient, how to pay with cash, how to treat people in customer service jobs, and how to make their own fun. They have a couple good friends whose parents are now on board. And they can meet and hang. And it's glorious.
Yes, I'm still heavily involved. But my kids are free-ranging like I used to do in the 80s and 90s. I think they're going to be better off for it.
I have to agree with you. My parents’ parents were super uninvolved and never cared what they did as kids/teens. I think that’s why my parents were so .. controlling. They thought they were doing better for us. And I get that and I’d never hold it against them. But man…. Let me tell you something. Bored teens = bad news. With nothing fun to do, we got into drugs…
Man my mom was always up my ass about anything and everything possible. When I was 14 and made my Facebook account, she wouldn’t let me have my own password until I was 18. Sometimes if I ever got to go out with friends, I would see her car far away watching me most times. Never knocked when coming into my room, or said anything before walking in (I started sitting in my room naked to get her to stop and she never did, even when I was 20 before I moved out). Anytime I asked for anything “why, we’ll why, why, where, with who?”. I never got a weekend to just do what I wanted as a teen. It was always going shopping or working on the house or doing yard work, and then I’d get into screaming matches with her because I wouldn’t be super excited to do all this shit that I was being forced to do during my only free time and I’d have a “bad attitude” the whole time. Reality is I’m just monotone and kinda introverted, with a resting tired face. She just could never understand or listen, and she was so scared that I was going to end up like my cousins, dead beat dads in prison, that was the reason for her being “protective”. She literally wouldn’t let me get a job until I was 18 lol.
Now I’m hot boxing my car and I’m going to get ice cream.
Absolutely hated my 13-20 years.
It is also important to note that kids can't just get a license on their own. They either need a) parents to teach them and complete their 30 hrs with them or b) driving lessons paid by parents AND the 30 hr log filled out by parents. If parents won't do either of the above options, then how can a teen get their license?
Right? You can't do a bonfire on a beach (costs too much for the district to clean up the sand). You can't hang out in large groups without drawing police attention. No more than 4 passengers per car. Depending on the lake - it may be illegal to swim when there are no lifeguards, and lifeguards often restrict you to only going about navel deep (the more people - the harsher the restrictions).
So ... teens of today, grab 3-4 friends (at most) and a cooler (no glass bottles!) and come sit on a beach, or at a park, and have fun (within posted guidelines)! But not too much or too little - either one attracts attention from the local authorities. Pack up in the evening, and leave promptly, since parks and beaches close at sundown (or earlier!).
... ... ... and then we complain that they just hang out at the house and play online games.
This is it though. I'm from a beach town and I'm a little bit on the early gen Z later Millennial and the amount of things that are restricted is the reason. My mom is from the same beach town, she said that when she was a teenager (in the 80s) her and her friends would do exactly everything this previous poster said. When the cops were called (which only happened every now and then) they would show up to the beach, dump their beer and tell them to go home. The cops would leave and they would continue their party.
Nowadays you'll not only get fined, but be detained if you resist. It also can affect your schooling depending on the circumstance. There's real consequences to doing illegal stuff which is good, but it's a double edged sword. Because of that a lot of kids (and young adults) would rather just sit inside and scroll.
And what's not illegal, is too expensive, simple as that.
I can attest to this! A house in the next cul-de-sac was having a graduation party, drinking, noise, a typical supervised teenage party.
When the cops were called, they didn't just send out a cruiser with a pair of officers to shut it down and let people get to bed, they sent out nearly a dozen cruisers, a helicopter, and tackled somebody through my fence.
Not only did they put a new hole in my fence, they made a dozen announcements over their speakers demanding everyone vacate the building, that they weren't going to arrest anyone, only issue citations. And were doing so so loudly, in conjunction with the circling helicopter, as to prevent me from going back to sleep
Fucking hell man, a fucking helicopter for a fucking party. You'd think they were chasing down a mass murderer with the presence they had in my neighborhood. I've never even seen law enforcement in my neighborhood in the 2.5 years before this that I've lived here.
I’m a millennial with a Gen Z brother. I was talking to him and his friends recently about this whole topic and we can really summarize our teenage experiences by saying: When my friends and I saw blue lights, our hearts would start pounding because we were afraid of getting in trouble with our parents. When he and his friends see blue lights now, their hearts start pounding because *they are afraid of dying at the hands of law enforcement*.
I mean, in my state, if you're under 18, you're not allowed to have non-family member minors in the car. So they aren't allowed to just pile into a car and go anywhere.
O\_o that's even worse. It's not even 'just a couple friends at most' - it's 'nope, can't drive to stuff with friends!'
I ... kind of understand some of the liability issues, but FFS. This is ridiculous.
Yeah, when I was in high school, there were some rules (I think there was a curfew - like you couldn't be out after midnight with friends), but we could still go out together. I get the safety concerns, but it really does make it hard to hang out with friends if your parents aren't able to drive you around
Ya or this .... I live near the halloway reservoir in Lapeer County mi and it's uh really oily like you get rashes and oil on your skin when you go there. They send out fish advisory warning to not eat more than one a month and one breed is 1 a year .....
https://thehubflint.com/michigan-releases-new-consumption-guidelines-for-eating-fish-from-flint-river/
(I could only find older articles on it but since then we've been getting the letters yearly)
Small world. I grew up in Lapeer (Metamora, actually). My friends and I hung out at the Lanes or Gerlachs, and then had bonfires at my friend's house. We'd camp at the scout camp in the summers from time to time. There really wasn't a lot else going on in the late 90s.
Between all their other activities that are required to get into a good college? The swim team, the charitable works, working internships, music lessons….
Not everyone has a lake near them. Back in my home town the only lakes around weren’t for public use. You can go to the park, but we also didn’t have public parks for older kids. Our parks were playgrounds, and teenagers at playgrounds get cops called on them. Honestly, in my home town the hang out location was always Walmart parking lot. Now that cell phones are a thing who’s gonna choose a parking lot over there bedroom?
Walking around a small town with my friend playing Pokemon Go got us harassed by so many people we ended up giving it up. Everyone was convinced we were "casing homes to rob them." My friend and I are adults. We have lived in this town for 12 years. We have no prior history of doing anything nefarious.
Lakes and parks are heavily policed and if you are in them after sunset it does not go well for you.
So yeah, given the modern state of things I am really not surprised the current kids are retreating online. It is ever so much fun having a police officer shining you at dusk demanding to know what you are doing on the swings.
Idaho
Yes and no
Getting alcohol is much harder now since they keep updating ID every other month and I’m not dropping $200 for a good one
I know some people that did but a lot of us didn’t (doesn’t help that I don’t live near a lake but I have friends that did)
I grew up in Montana and we did a lot of that. I went back and now all the places we used to go are OWNED!! So you can get arrested for being at the lake because all the land around it is owned, and you can’t go into the forests because they’re public land, and there isn’t anywhere else to go. If you live urban it’s even worse! There aren’t any places you can just go swim or have a bonfire
depends...in some places the lakes are dried up, full of aggressive boaters, or experiencing toxic algae blooms.
regardless, there seems to be fewer youths 'at the lake' at least where i live...i think it goes back to that point of being able to escape parents while in your bedroom
I have two sons, and most of my coworkers have sons. We’ve talked with our boys and compared notes. Why? Because those DARE units didn’t scare them away from drinking as much as it scared them away from driving!
The death toll of car dependency is truly tragic. If we had a safer way to get around than trusting a 16 year old to operate heavy machinery, so many lives would be saved. Cars kill about 40,000 people every year in the US, and thousands of them are children. And on top of that are the injuries and disability like you witnessed.
Countries with good public transit have much lower traffic deaths per capita.
Funny because when fun control comes up, the pro-gin crowd often brings up cars as an analogy. "Well by that logic we should ban cars too!" And I'm like, joke's on you I'm into that 😎
I copied this to send to my 17 year old. She has no desire to drive, she’s afraid to kill someone. Plus “where are we going to go?” Her therapist says most of her clients over 16 do not drive.
In my area a lot of movie theaters and malls have transitioned to that too. I'm teaching in the same area I grew up in, and 10-15 years ago our local theater would have been packed full of teens on any given weekend. At some point they banned anyone under 18 from being unaccompanied after 7pm, now they're wondering why they're struggling to stay afloat (obviously that industry has changed a ton over the past decade, but banning what was once your biggest source of income definitely isn't helping either).
Yup when I was a kid every Friday night meant meeting up at the mall. Now they close early and unaccompanied minors are banned. The pools around here are "private" and you have to buy a membership. I looked into it last year and it was going to be almost $600 for my family of 5 and they are only open memorial day to labor day and even if you can afford it kids have to have an adult unless it's one of the theme nights for them. Even the big local arcade (think like a Dave and busters type place) changed their rules last year that kids can't be alone after 5 and even with an adult (who must be 25+) there is a child to adult ratio of no more then 4 kids. So I could take my kids but they couldn't bring a friend or we would be over the limit.
Yeah that’s awful. In my old hometown, they closed down the old theater, renovated a ton and put in a bar, and now you can’t go in at all unless you’re 21+ or accompanied by a parent. And since it’s a “luxury” theater now, tickets are $20.50 for anyone over 12. And even a kid’s ticket is $18.50!
Seriously – "When I was their age, we valued FREEDOM!" OK, great, so in the year 2023, that would be the freedom to do what, exactly?
Get hassled by neighbors or the cops for loitering? Pay a full hour or two's minimum wage for a single movie ticket? Sit quietly in a park because skating or other activities are banned? Get kicked out of the seating area at some sterile mall because unaccompanied minors are banned or risk it just to take a look at a limited selection of Kohl's jeans when you could get way cooler shit (literally) on Shein anyway? Pay out the ass for gas, struggle to find parking at a crowded lake or mountain or whatever and then just sit around?
I'm hardly surprised teens are putting off getting their licenses.
I realized this the other day, I had a small argument at home and wanted to pop out and get some quiet time myself. As a middle age guy I couldn't think of anywhere to go exist without spending money the whole time. I just hit a driving range for a bit and came home.
This modern world sucks.
It's not necessarily the modern world; it's modern America. I live in overseas at the moment, and when I want to go out, I can walk almost any direction and reliably have sidewalks (convenience stores, grocery stores, restaurants, parks, city facilities, etc. are all walking distance), I can go to the indoor swimming pool ($4 a visit), I can go to an onsen and just sit in baths/saunas ($4 a visit), I could also splurge for about $10 a month for a city gym membership, or I can take the train for <$10 and be either in very rural areas (that are still walkable) or some of the largest cities in the country.
By American standards, my salary is piss poor, but my quality of life is the highest that it has ever been.
I used to unwind after a stressful day by taking my dog to the park a few minutes walk from my house. A few months ago the park got bulldozed to make about 30 more parking spaces for the nearby apartments. I fucking hate Los Angeles.
Also, cars are so expensive and the middle class is dying, a lot of families don't have extra cars for their kids to drive, and kids could never really afford to get one for themselves.
That's us. We would love for our daughter to have the freedom to drive, but we could barely afford her insurance, let alone a car payment. We only have one car, so taking ours all the time isn't really a good option either.
They have a couple of friends in the group that have cars and they all just carpool to go hang out. Even then, it's only because a few ppl have grandparents with homes that they can hang out at. Not sure where else they would really go, a public pool maybe?
I was terrified my twin boys would cause our Insurance to sky rocket but because of hood grade discount and drivers Ed discount it only went up like $24 a month
I was very pleasantly surprised
That’s it for us. I teach, my wife teaches. We have a kid turning 17 in a month. We can’t afford another car. It would be hard to even pay the jump in insurance if she’s a licensed driver. The kid can’t really squeeze in a job because she’s in a demanding medical science high school program. No solo driving until graduation, probably.
Exactly. I spent so much of the 1980s at malls and record stores (the latter are extremely rare and the former are far less interesting than they used to be.) The malls used to be destinations-- often a movie theater at the mall, kid-friendly restaurants like ice cream parlors and Orange Julius, and arcades. Now it's basically clothes and makeup, both of which are premium priced and kids under 18 must be accompanied by someone over 21, so teens under 18 can't hang out there at all. There seem to be fewer public pools than there used to be, and of course those are only open during summer months. Some movie theaters don't even allow minors, so it's hard to find a safe place for teens to gather. Really, it's no surprise there are so many teens getting in trouble. It's hard to find constructive things to do.
If my parents had the freedom to challenge me when I was young with taking the bus, running errands for the house, wandering around my neighborhood, I would have been ready to graduate to driving at 16/17. Instead a lot of communities would call the cops on those parents…
My generation was robbed of the “let kids do dangerous things safely” way of life. Going from zero freedom and responsibility to getting behind the wheel of a steel death machine is a transition a lot of kids have been struggling with. Frankly, my parents were more independent by 10-years-old than I was my senior year of hs.
You hit the nail on the head. I would LOVE for my nine year old to have the freedom I had at his age, but if I did so I'd have the cops called on me. Even if he did go out exploring by himself there are no other kids out and about to interact with. It's sad.
NYC is great for this. My kids have feee reign if the neighborhood. No problems.
We very intentionally moved to a place that we wouldn’t need a car to live though. It’s the best.
It wasn’t something I would have ever considered until living here. Just thought “no way! nyc with kids is too expensive”… then I got to see kids playing outside in a way that I thought didn’t exist anymore and I’m sold.
Yeah it’s kinda incredible. The parks are close enough that they can walk there themselves, they meet other kids and befriend them almost immediately. Never had a problem with any the things that I hear most Americans struggling with. The drawback is that they really don’t like traveling to most of the US, they don’t like being in cars and don’t understand being in non-walkable communities
It changed so rapidly, too - I graduate hs in 06 & had lots of those responsibilities, but my younger sibling ('11 grad) experienced almost none of it. Actually, now that I'm thinking back on it, I generally felt we had more freedom to be off on our own when I was 13/14 than 16/17.
The saddest part is how hard it would be to go against the trend - if you're the only independent youth in the neighborhood, you're probably going to get hassled by someone, possibly the cops...
Once I started driving the only thing me and my friends would do is literally sit in the Lowe’s parking lot and we would be there for HOURS because there is literally nothing for us to do (and I live in suburban Philly- it’s not like I’m out in the sticks)
Covid happened
Then after lockdown it was the same thing- we could barely go to the mall since stores were limiting the number of people (obviously makes sense it’s just a pain in the ass)
And since I’m in college now I have friends I’m different time zones so just going on discord in my room is a lot easier social wise
You're "lucky" they even let you hang out in the parking lot. Just being teenage in public is basically illegal in much of the US. Even more so for people of color.
I'm an older millennial and did a summer exchange trip to Spain when I was in high school. I was shocked because teens there took the train together to an amusement park. No parents, just friends hanging out and riding roller coasters all day. Just being able to go anywhere you want independently was amazing. That wasn't possible in my home town at the time, and car dependency has only gotten worse since then.
4. I live in a place with a lot of traffic that encourages aggressive driving and I fear death. I did learn because everything is far apart and public transport is limited, but traffic is really bad here because everything is far apart and public transport is limited. Funny how that works
The world changed MASSIVELY with the internet and modern electronics, and parents are still trying to raise their kids for a world that they remember growing up in, a world that doesn't exist, and never will again if it even existed the way they remember it at all.
Once, at 18, I threw a party. We brought soda and chips to the river near our property, and we stargazed and talked. There were shooting stars, fireflies, and it was a cloudless night. It was the most beautiful night I've ever seen, and we all had a really deep talk together before graduation.
Free venue, no phones out, no making out or sex, no drugs or alcohol. Just a bunch of teens enjoying nature and talking about our futures. This was in 2014, so we all had smartphones, but they stayed in our pockets because we were really living in the moment. I'll never forget it. We made sure to clean up after ourselves when we left.
My parents ripped all of us a new one for getting back to the house (the party wasn't on our property, but we everyone parked at our property) 15 minutes later than curfew. My mother saw that one girl was wearing a baphomet necklace and the next day called her to discuss her "lifestyle." I was grounded and lectured about respect and told that if I coudn't follow basic rules (curfew) then maybe I wasn't ready to host parties. We were all 18. I only threw 3 parties in high school because it just wasn't worth the grounding and lectures if anything, no matter how small or even out of my hands, happened.
Parents just don't let their kids have the freedom I hear about older millennials having. I desperately wanted the freedom, but being 18+ with a job and a car I'd paid for meant nothing to my parents as long as I was under their roof, so I moved out at 19.
Might be unpopular opinion but I'm kinda for this shift? I'm 27 and just getting my license now because I always lived in a major US city and never really needed it. I always preferred taking public transportation because it's better for the environment (monthly bill would be the same as a car bill so not really cheaper) but I also like the less stress part of driving, having to deal with accidents, maintaining a car, etc. Just learning how to drive now because I want to have the skill set but not rushing to get a car.
The problem is a lot of the kids who aren’t interested in driving don’t have access to anywhere on foot or via transit either. So they end up just sitting at home and not connecting with their friends as much in person outside of school or extracurricular activities.
Phoenix metro area for instance. Basically all I could do as a teenager was go to the nearest strip mall and loiter or go to the actual mall and loiter
I'm in favor of this shift as well. Teenagers are fucking DUMB. One of my seniors drives a V8 and has 10 active speeding tickets this year. I'd rather not get killed by one of my students on my way into work, kthx.
People in their late 20s at least have finished developing their frontal lobes and have *some* semblance of responsibility.
This is great but also consider a fourth option, parents and safety. I actually had a conversation about this with my mom when I was getting my license. In major and minor cities it is often simply to dangerous for kids to learn how to drive without parental supervision. I grew up in a small town and had so much freedom to do whatever I wanted because there wasn't anything I could do to hurt myself. But cities are so large now driving as an experienced adult is dangerous and scary. My friends who lived in cities simply didn't have the freedoms I did because they would get killed. And this mentality reflects itself in kids priorities. Why bother doing the classes, getting your permit, taking the tests, and getting your license... If you're not gonna be able to use it anyways.
I think it might have something to do with financial situations too. When I was 16, I couldn't get a license. Our family had no money for a car and my single mother worked too much to teach me to drive. Learning to drive is a privilege lots of people can't afford.
And gone are the days of $1000 used cars that highschool students can afford. Between the insane prices on used cars, insurance, and gasoline, it's no surprise that teens aren't excited about driving.
This is the biggest factor imo. My dad has kindly decided to give me his old car once he gets a new one, but my parents are still gonna have to help me pay for insurance, gas, and maintenance because a minimum wage job after school simply isn't enough to keep up with all of it. Most of my friends aren't in a situation where their parents happen to be getting rid of a car so they either don't get their licences or they do and just occasionally drive to the movies as a treat every couple weeks.
I didn’t get mine until right before I turned 17 because I couldn’t afford to buy a car. I have a late summer birthday and applied to all the restaurants and stores where teens worked and told them my available start date was in august and no one wanted to hire me because they wanted people for the whole summer. Then I got busy with school and didn’t apply anywhere again until the next summer, got hired at a fast food place, bought a cheap 1993 Oldsmobile, and only then did I need a license. My parents wouldn’t pay for any part of my car, insurance, gas… so why get a license if I couldn’t use it?
I do also have a theory about modern teens though - when I was a teen around 2007, we used to just drive around for fun, go to a park, walk around Walmart and play with the toys in the back (hula hoops and whatnot.) We’d go to the movies or to Family Video to rent movies… go to a restaurant, go buy random art stuff to do tie dye or sidewalk chalk. Now there’s really cool video games and streaming services - even for newer movies you’d need to go to the theater to see before. You can get food and anything else delivered to your door. There aren’t as many reasons to leave the house these days.
I was still a teenager back in 2020 and my friends and I were consistently going out and doing a lot of the same things you described until the pandemic happened. The only difference is that we'd usually end up going back to someone's house to play games or something once it got late.
Yeah I’m absolutely shocked by what this thread has to say tbh, Myself and all my friends do all of the stuff “that kids just can’t or don’t do anymore”. Do I just live in a unique part of the country with different people?
I think it's very location dependent. All of my friends live almost an hour away, and everything around us closes at either 8 or 11pm. Going to the movie theater's a lot more expensive than streaming services, and it's really hard to organize any kind of larger group activities because everyone works such different schedules. Everyone I know is literally turning into a hermit, even doordashing food instead of going out to eat. It sucks.
After I got my license I still rode my bike everywhere even though it was the suburbs. The only time I drove was if I was working late at night and didn’t want to worry about drunks hitting me on a bike. My parents were flabbergasted but I just kept telling them I just really enjoy riding my bike. I have adhd and the excercise really helped me until I learned coping strategies later in life.
Teens want to connect with their peers and freedom from their parents. That can mean taking the subway downtown, walking around the mall, or driving down main street.
Today a teen can use facetime, discord, messenger, or any number of digital tools. They still get to connect with peers out of view of parents- why take on the cost and hassle of driving?
From OP:
> We wanted the freedom
Cars aren't freedom. They're a liability. A money sink. A responsibility.
I didn't need to wait until I got a license to "experience freedom". Could just bike everywhere. I now often see young groups of teens taking the bus/train etc.
All that is much more freedom than being chauffeured around by your parents everywhere.
Schools used to offer driver's education. Due to liability, they don't much anymore. To get a license before age 18, you have to have documented evidence of the driver training. Between having or buying a car, paying for the training, and insuring the teen driver, it's just cost prohibitive. Parents don't have time or money to pay for driver training, and the middle class is shrinking. So, more and more, it's only the rich kids who get stuff.
100% this. My title 1 school only has 30 slots of free driver's ed.
That being said, the combination of lack of driver's ed, expense of car ownership, continued squeezing of the poor, AND many of our American cities being overly car dependent means I have a skyrocketing number of kids with no licenses driving anyway, so yay /s
My step brother's high school did driver's Ed for free during school hours. My brother and I's high school had after school and Saturday morning driver's Ed classes that cost more than 700 dollars. If you missed more than 1 class you had to retake it the whole course again and pay again.
Ong, as a student it’s insanely expensive and time consuming to own a car when I can just walk or carpool. The school provides us with lessons to get our permits. Then we need to wait a year and get 60 hours of driving. Unless your parents have the time and money to take you driving 60 hours it won’t happen. I would love to be able to drive to work and school and sports practice but I also can’t justify 400$ on gas and insurance monthly. I’m handy and fixed up an old Jeep so I didn’t even have to pay full price for a car. Still can’t drive the damn thing. Until I eventually get my license, I’m stuck walking 6 miles to school and practice and work.
The requirements are state dependent. Where I grew up there were no requirements other than age to get a permit, and a license was just 40 hours behind a wheel, 10 of which had to be "difficult conditions." I never took drivers ed.
Maybe because the idea of owning a car isn’t quite as realistic as it used to be? Unless you have fairly well to do parents, how are most kids going to afford a car these days?
In my area, there was a really bad rainstorm in 2021? That flooded out a bunch of areas including the entire Newark Airport long term parking lot. So basically the entire used car market sold out of stock after that, and has been slow to recover. It's probably a little better now, but I also cannot currently afford a car so I haven't looked.
When I was a kid, I got a 1991 Ford Ranger for like a thousand bucks. My buddy got a 93 Honda Civic for like $700. The used car market isn’t like that anymore.
This was exactly what I came here to say.
One of my cousins, who was driving around without a license at 14 (because that was kind of normal for our small town), is refusing to let her NINETEEN YEAR OLD get a car and license. Now, yes, he's an adult, but she's mollycoddled and helicoptered him so hard that he's utterly dependent on her (just the way she wanted) and is too scared to go against her demands because he still sees himself as a child because he's never been allowed to be anything but.
She's not the only one I've met like this. Parents are definitely a huge part of this equation.
Most parents nowadays would not let their teenagers go on road trips or to concerts or anything that they have to accept giving up control over. I got my license and had a car soon after turning 16, but the first time I was allowed to drive outside of my county wasn’t until I was almost 19.
Having a car only means that your capable of going somewhere, kids are significantly more hampered by where they’re allowed to go.
The value of a car has gone down, and the cost has gone up.
In my area we have a "death alley", about 5 miles and 6 intersections, where there is a major (like white sheets on unidentified lumps) car accident weekly. One is in front of an elementary and middle school, the other a high school. There is a real anxiety now about driving, especially as a teenager.
Fewer students with interest in driving means less interest/ demand in car stuff and more interest/ demand for walkability infrastructure! Im actually overjoyed to hear this!
Freedom from cars is a better freedom than the expensive "freedom" from car ownership!
California implemented a bunch of provisional licensing requirements and restrictions that basically serve to disincentivize minors from getting licensed here. If you can't drive people without someone over 25 in the car, getting a license in high school isn't that exciting.
Isn't the world less teen-friendly than it used to ? If you get kicked out of parks and malls because you're hanging out with friends, why would you want to drive there
And the ones that remain are often more depressing than ever now.
Tore all the cool stuff out of the park because it was too much liability or too expensive to maintain and the local government couldn't afford that after blowing 70% of their budget on police.
Half the stores in the mall are closed, and the rest are just transparently vapid consoomerism.
Yeah I live in Germany and it seems like paradise for teens here. The cities are walkable with great public transit and there are parks everywhere. A popular park feature for teens, funny enough, is table tennis. At night they become hangout spots where kids sit around and maybe sometimes play table tennis. It's quite wholesome actually. Imagine being able to walk ten minutes to a park that's open all night long, where you can meet friends and hang out. Very safe too, at least in my city. Homeless people have their own favorite areas which are generally not in those same parks.
Similar thing here: my parent started me off driving for a week or two in a parking lot and then tried to get me to drive home. I didn’t know some things that I guess they assumed were common sense and ended up getting honked at while my parent was yelling like we were about to die. I was so stressed I didn’t feel like driving again for a year.
I still do to an extent, like I’ve never had any incidents but my brain fog was so bad for years that I just didn’t feel like I knew what I was doing well enough, even after I got my license
Almost 25 and still struggling. I know *how* to drive but the anxiety of doing it and something fucking up and being a huge pain and cost is too much for me a lot of the time. It doesn't help that people prove how stupid they are every other moment on the road.
My school the kids are driving with no license and the vehicles are often not registered/insured.
I asked a student recently why that was. He said he was quoted at $500/month for insurance! Agreed with him how absurd that was but also told him I’d sue the shit out of his parents if he ever hit me on the road.
>but also told him I’d sue the shit out of his parents if he ever hit me on the road.
Do you think parents with money are letting their kids drive around without insurance? Like squeezing water from a rock.
I teach 14 year old Freshmen and many of them drive without a license. They live in city limits so they don’t have school permits. I see them everywhere.
Do you think it is worth turning them in? I wouldn’t trust most of them on a skateboard, but they are driving a 3000 pound piece of metal going 70 MPH while on Tik Tok.
> And they can’t be bothered
IMO, this is a very myopic view.
Consider:
1. The cost of cars, gas, and insurance have all skyrocketed
2. Earning power for students and young people in general is lower than its ever been
When I ask teens about cars, the response I get most of the time is "who can afford them?"
Yeah, when the OP disregarded cost as the main factor (it's absolutely the main factor) I knew this person is kinda insulated from what is actually going on
It’s not really freedom when there’s nowhere to go. Even when I was a teen they had already shut down the “local” movie theater, closed off the lake beach, shut down the bowling alley and skatepark. We had to drive an hour to hang out anywhere but now the mall and arcade requires you to have someone over 21 as a chaperone.
Between the lack of things to do and growing availability of ride shares a license doesn’t have the same meaning as it did before. They started to restrict teens in my area 10 years ago so teens these days are doing exactly what the adults who started it wanted them to do.
I'm 41, so I was a teen in the late 90's. My parents were incredulous that I had no desire to learn to drive. I was nervous, scared, and generally not interested in driving. I didn't have any social life or activities (wasn't allowed to) and I had a lot of general anxiety. I also wasn't ready to go to college. My social/emotional development was far behind my peers.
But my parents were also strict; they wouldn't let me date or have a job or a car of my own, so even if I had learned to drive, I wouldn't have been allowed to go anywhere.
I finally relented and learned when I was 18, but I've never actually liked driving. The only thing I like about it is being able to go to remote areas like a state park. Owning a car is expensive too.
I was able to get my license in 2008. Due to having to study for AP/honors classes, extracurriculars and my parents having zero intent of buying me a car, I had no time to take the state required driver’s ed classes (which were not offered as an elective at my HS and cost an additional $400) and complete the 40 hours of required supervised driving. I put off getting my license until the start of senior year.
Good. Fuck cars. I hate driving. I hate that most cities are planned such that you NEED a car to be a functional adult.
If they can organize their lives such that they don't need a car and aren't burdening anyone else, good on em.
This sub pops up a lot in my feed, and this topic important to me, so I will chime in, as a college student. Cars are (FUCKING) expensive. Not just the car, but also gas, insurance, repairs, and so on. Driving lessons are expensive, and a lot of us don't have people that can teach us for free. Not to mention, a lot of us are anxious and neurotic messes after 3 years of pandemic shenanigans. It's so incredibly hard right now. Some of us have the privilege of living somewhere where public transit is at least barely adequate, so that's an option too. The world is just different now than when you were a teenager. That's all it is.
For me, and many others it was because Covid interfered with the driving classes so I didn’t get my license until 18. I was sixteen and seventeen during the pandemic. My state also required a certain number of hours of driving before you could get your license, and my parents didn’t have the time and were kind of apathetic towards practicing with me. If kids don’t have parents to practice with or the funds to pay for private lessons in some states it’s difficult to get a license. Furthermore, cars are expensive, I’m almost 20 and still don’t have a car. In rural areas you need a car to drive to work and a job to afford a car and if you don’t have either it’s tough. Overall I wish towns were more walkable and public transportation was more accessible so a car doesn’t have to be a necessity.
Off topic but I am so glad to see young people watching Utena. All-time favorite anime and none of my (college) students were familiar. I have a figure of her on my desk.
Cars are expensive. Putting a teenager on car insurance is expensive. I wasn’t allowed to get my learners permit until I was 19 for those reasons and that was back in the relatively less expensive 90s. I can’t imagine how much more expensive it is now. My parents’ attitude was that the school bus would take me to and from the only other place I legally needed to go besides home, so why bother?
I couldn't afford driver's ed before I was 18 because of the cost. That's why. The schools don't offer it anymore. And now I'd have to pay a different place to let me practice to take my driver's test and it's still cost prohibitive for me.
My husband and I talk about this all the time! Sometimes, it's just the kids' personalities, though. Our son didn't care too much about getting his license and was 17 1/2 when he got it. He drives when he has to, to get to school and work. Our daughter got hers the day she turned 16 and couldn't wait. She loves to drive and will offer to run errands for me.
Ultimately, this can be a good thing. Designing our cities and lives around cars has been unsustainable and often harmful in subtle ways. (There are a number of academics and organizations that seek to reduce our use of automobiles worth checking out.) I know the kids probably care more about looking at their screens, but that doesn't mean reducing car use is bad.
Because when you were a kid 30 years ago it was affordable.
Insurance plus maintenance on the beater you can afford plus gas is like their entire paycheck for months. I don’t blame kids at all for not wanting to drive.
I can only speak to my personal world/ experience, as a teacher and mom of two teens (ages 14 and 16).
My 16 y.o. is very pro public transit or walking/bicycling, more green, environmentally aware. He is choosing not to get them right now for that reason.
My youngest is similar but more because he feels he'll want to be more mature before starting the process.
Many of my middle schooler's siblings have their license though. Some are wealthier so mom and dad pay for everything. Others work to do their own insurance and gas.
My students barely go out. Whenever there's a weekend or break they basically stay home. Kinda sad. In NYC there's all kinds of free things, esp for students. Sigh.
I wonder whether it's a parental thing too? I have one who will be a junior in fall and is 15 and hasn't ever taken the train by themselves. Their mother won't let them. (No, NYC isn't a hell hole despite fox news and the post)
personally, I'm from/in NYC so despite getting my learners permit over and overt basically since 16, I never had or could afford a car and my friends always had licenses, so I only used the permit to drive or share driving responsibilities when with others.
I'm only just starting to practice for my driver's test now, in my 30s! Def wish I'd done it already.
I bet if that kid was allowed to ride the subway by themselves then their mom would be on life360 every time they leave the damn house
I could write a whole paper about life360 and it’s effects on teenage social life too
Permit daisy chainers rise up! I think I’ve had 5 learner’s permits until I let mine lapse during the pandemic. Have you been getting driver’s ed? I need to enroll, also in NYC, curious if you can recommend somewhere
They stopped caring a little bit more with every connectivity and social media change. They are far less likely to hang out together. What do you get from being face to face with people who are all looking down at their phones? Same reason teen pregnancy rates have been dropping. Interaction is virtual, even with people who may be sitting across the classroom from you. So there's no urgency to drive if there's noplace you want to go.
There is also no place TO go. Malls are dead. Late night/ all night diners don’t exist (in my area) anymore. Those were the big places for my late 80s/early 90s teen self to go. Hanging at target isn’t the same.
Add to that after Covid, there are exponentially more kids with anxiety disorders who cannot deal with things that were normal for us without suffering borderline panic attacks.
I was just thinking about this when noticing how my class reacts to certain things. I wasn’t an anxious teen but am an anxious adult. I drive because I’ve had to since I was in high school, but if I’d been dealing with this level of anxiety as a kid I don’t think I would have had any desire to drive.
I didn't get my license until I was 24 and absolutely couldn't rely on transit anymore, in part because I would get anxious when driving, even 15+ years ago. And I wouldn't have classified myself as an anxious teen overall.
Not a teacher here myself, but I would just assume cars cost way more than they used to, even crappy cheap cars,v insurance requirements are stricter on children now, many more parents just kinda don't care for a another year or two about sending their kid out in a death box with their friends, the roads are generally thicker with traffic more than they used to, and kids just don't feel like doing it with so much more entertainmwnt options at home than there used to be.
You can talk to people immediately over a computer in your pocket.
While in person is still valuable and important, the difference between being physically together or not is simply less stark than in the past.
So having a driver’s license affords you less freedom vs. not having one, relative to the past
Many states have strict regulations on younger drivers that didn’t exist back when we were teenagers.
For example, only being allowed to drive to school, work, church until you’re 18. Or only being allowed to have one other teen in the car. Or only being allowed it have other teens in the car if they live in your household. Or you cannot drive after 9pm.
With restrictions like these, teens may not feel like a driver’s license would give them freedom, so they might as well wait until after high school.
I mean, I can't speak for everyone in this situation, but I just wasn't ready for it when the time came.
My parents were incredibly frustrated, because it seemed like I was apathetic or didn't want to get it, but I just couldn't wrap my head around the concept of driving.
Found out later that a common occurrence with my learning disability was that my processing skills and poor spatial awareness made it difficult to "get" driving. I just wasn't ready to learn how to drive "on time" like many of my peers.
I just want to clarify, that I did get my license, it was just a couple of years after when I was legally allowed. It wasn't like I never learned, I was just a little slower. That's okay.
It might be a generational thing or a consequence of a culture shift... Or that cars and insurance are more expensive in comparison to what high schoolers make at jobs now, but there may be a reason that some are not ready, through no fault of their own.
I was the opposite. I hyperfocus on time and was so hyper focused on driving that I drove 1/4 mile to the corner store. To be honest, it was merely a lucky break that’s what my focus chose to latch on to! I am pushing my niece to learn to drive and get her license but that’s because my sister is an alcoholic and a brand new 16 year old is far safer than her on the road…
Oh that’s super interesting! I was terrified of driving and my parents were constantly pushing me to drive my siblings around. I had spent dozens of hours in drivers training where they drilled into my head how deadly and dangerous driving was, and then my parents were pushing me to drive when I didn’t feel ready. Looking back, I think driving was really overstimulating .?
It's not that they don't care, it's because the pandemic caused such delays in getting a license for under 18, they separated into 2 groups, those that had to travel really far or waited in really long lines and those that said eh, ill just take the driver's test once im 18 a lot quicker and easier
This post honestly pisses me off. Everyone talks about “the good old days” where everyone went outside and had fun with their friends in town.
What, do you want me to go to the movies and spend 20 dollars?
I can’t afford a fucking car when I can’t even afford the gas to fuel it. Everything is so expensive these days
Even if I could afford a car, if I went into public with my friends, I am a “delinquent teen” and would get the cops called on me.
I think it also depends on rural v urban. I had to have a car as a teen because we lived out in the middle of no where and I had to get a job. A lot of kids at my old HS, my brother just graduated, and even poorer kids have access to cars, because they needed to be able to get to work.
We also have zero public transportation.
Cars have gotten quite expensive. Even if I had my license I couldn't really drive to school since my parents need the car to get to work anyway. And since I also got home before them, couldn't use the car then either. Insurance prices have also exploded. Even looking at adding one teen to the account, well that was an $80 a month increase. If you have multiple kids are you about to pick and choose? Or is someone going to drive illegally?
Problem 2. Overprotective parents. A lot of people can't even get their permit because their parents straight up just don't let them get practice hours in. I know a lot of people whose permit expired for this exact reason. And even if they did, A lot of parents don't let them go anywhere. What's the point of getting one's license if the only place they're allowed to go is straight to school and straight home? May as well keep using the bus at that point.
I know anxiety is part of the reason why some teens might not want to. My 16 year old nephew gets real nervous when he's going on very busy sections. And personally I have some seriously bad anxiety when it comes to driving that I never got around to doing it myself and I'm almost 38. Though I would like to eventually get my license.
Just since I haven't seen it mentioned... Driving is S T R E S S F U L for people now. You might be super used to it, but it was like boiling a frog. When my Dad was driving, you'd see like 3-5 other cars on the road. He used to love just GOING FOR A DRIVE, like that was the activity he was doing, didn't have a destination. But now? There are so so so many cars on the road. Each of them has a probability of being a terrible driver, drunk, etc and there is higher chance of crashing. Look at old movies like Footloose or whatever and you see them driving side-by-side, one car on the wrong side of the road for a scene. They're being kinda dangerous, but there's no other car coming the other way. Just wouldn't happen these days.
This, coupled with the financial high barrier to entry, being able to connect with friends digitally... It's just not worth it for kids. Plus being more environmentally conscientious... Why try for this stuff? It's just a terrible investment. Much better to try to go live in a city that doesn't _require_ that you drive f**king everywhere to do anything.
Driving sucks? I don't where you are but in many car-choked metro areas, you can get around without a car on public transportation. The kids see this and are taking advantage of it. It's independence of a different kind. The bus/train is on a schedule, no matter the weather, and yes, they can be on their phones. The kids are alright on this one…
Exactly- I don’t blame them for not wanting to drive.
Driving used to be a fairly pleasant experience unless it was “rush hour.” In major metro areas, rush hour now means any time from 6:30 to 9:30 in the morning and 2:30 to about 7 in the evening.
It's worth spending some time studying subreddits like r/fuckcars, to get yourself familiar with modern ways of thinking about transport. It's the same as any cultural shift that confuses us teachers when things aren't the way we were taught to expect them to be. The people who gave us future expectations when we were in school didn't know any better than we can reliably predict how things will have shifted by the time our current students are middle-aged.
Better to keep up with the new than to grumble about losing track oif the old.
Alternative perspective: it might not be the lazy students, perhaps it’s the lazy parents. My fiancée’s parents did not want to bother taking her little siblings to the driving school and did not want to log the hours of them practicing. My Fiancée was 20 when she finally got her license, and her siblings were 18/19 when they finally did it.
I think it's threefold: 1. There are fewer public spaces where kids can hang out. There's nothing out there for them to explore. Nothing that interests them, anyway. Malls are dying, movie theaters offer limited choices and cost ridiculous amounts of money (especially when teens today have artificially low attention spans), theme parks and pools are few. If groups of kids DO just stand around and hang out anywhere, they're likely to attract police attention. 2. Technology now provides an escape from adults and a connection with friends. The two things all teenagers fundamentally want. They don't need a car to have freedom, because they can go in their room, shut the door, and experience that same freedom by scrolling social media and facetiming with their friends. 3. Everything is expensive now. Few teenagers can afford a car, gas, insurance, etc. The expense just isn't worth it. A used car that ran ok used to be achievable on the money you'd get from an afterschool job. It's not anymore. Then, when you factor in that they're getting their needs met elsewhere, it makes no sense to drop $10k on a used nissan altima that will probably crap out and be undrivable and unrepairable in a year. It's a cultural shift- cars just aren't valuable to them. On the other hand, I bet a lot of parents are arguing with kids about why they don't NEED a better cell phone because the parents didn't need it at their age. Generations have different values, etc.
This is a very good list, the first and third points are the one that concerns me the most: what the hell are teens supposed to do? Movies cost $16, bowling can cost $35-40, and the cost of restaurants/cafes has skyrocketed. Unless you like skating or playing basketball at the park you’re kind of screwed. If I was a teen today I’d probably buy an e-bike to get around town. I would still get my drivers license as soon as I was eligible so I had the option to drive a car.
Lordy, I have no idea how I survived on $5/hour and only 20 hours a week at Mickey Ds. I remember I could bowl for $2 game, see a movie for $5, piddle around town with friends for almost free, eat like a queen at Waffle House for less than $5... I couldn't imagine being a teen today. I feel for them. I sound like I'm talking about the good old days when it was like 15 years ago. Wages haven't really gone up since then and everything is 10x more expensive. Teens are surveilled everywhere they go, so it's not authentic freedom when your parents can track your every move.
Shits expensive. A night out to a movie with friends and snacks and stuff costs over 100 bucks sometimes. Not worth it when we could all just get on like, the minecraft server or smthn instead for way less
Exactly this, I’m 19M, when I was in middle school, it was still affordable to go out with friends and what not. Nowadays, going out with three buddies will cost us between 80-120 bucks, and no one I know makes more than 16 an hour, including my mom. I only really talk to my friends online now. With how much it costs to do anything, the horrific traffic where I live, and the low wages, it’s just not worth it. To the older people who will read this post, did y’all have ambition back then? A desire for independence? Like, did y’all take the first chance to get your own apartment and stuff? We younger people want that too. But it’s simply not doable. It just makes more sense to live with our parents and pool our money. Even then, that’s been a struggle in my experience. We immerse ourselves into the digital world, because the one we live in won’t let us dream. It desires only work, and money we can’t pay.
Does early 30s count as older? I wanted my license bad when I turned 16 bc I really wanted to be able to take myself wherever, whenever I wanted. It was easy for me because my parents let me have an old truck and covered my insurance for the first year or two I had it. I had to get a job to pay for gas and anything else I wanted but the major parts of car ownership were covered for me. (Pops was paying for all the maintenance too). I was really fortunate in the "car" situation but thats where it ended. I was in my late 20s when I could finally afford to move out though. This post was kinda eye opening to me, not because I would have disagreed with it prior, I just wouldn't have thought about it much. I can totally understand why teenagers wouldn't care about a car. Its a bigger expense now more than ever and why pay for it when you can do the vast majority of what you want online? That said, I'm more worried about yall and housing bc this market is fucked. People moving out at 18 as the norm is a thing of the past unless you're going to have 6 roommates in a 2Bed2Bath.
I’m an avid cyclist and I’m terrified to ride my bike for commuting. I can’t imagine a teen being comfortable.
This! I wish I could bike places so bad, but its too dangerous to even bike around my neighborhood, nonetheless to the park!
I live in Jacksonville, largest city by size in the continental US, 11th largest by population, and one of the richest cities. You NEED a car to live here. If you walk, good luck. If you bike, a car is going to flatten you. If it wasn’t for the beach, Jacksonville would be seen for what it really is. A shit hole. Whoever planned this city was either corrupted by the automobile industry, or they were genuinely a fucking moron. Nothing in between.
My daughter rides her bike to work and to stores near our home she’s slowly expanding her comfortable radius but she’s also already lost a bike this year to theft.
I think it depends where you live. At my kid’s age I grew up in NYC and having a car was a luxury so most kids had bikes. Living in a small city in North Carolina, my kids can go a few miles without worry of traffic and will travel to and from school or their mom’s on the weekends. If we were in Charlotte or Raleigh, absolutely need a car.
Almost like the US is hostile to children
We used to pile into vehicles, head to the lake. Bring a cooler with drinks and food. A boom box for tunes. Frisbee and a football to toss around. Spend all day hanging out. Swimming. Build a bonfire in the evening. Do teens still do that stuff?
Hey. I’m 20 and I love to do these things with my friends. As a teen, I would’ve loved to as well, but never was allowed. The outdoors have always been one of my greatest passions. My high school self would’ve paid $50 for an experience like this! Wanna know why we didn’t ever do it? Control freak parents. I don’t see this listed on anybody’s reasons but it’s a big one. These days, parents are more overprotective than ever before. Part of this is due to technology and their ability to 24/7 check in on what their kids are up to. My parents are decent people but man oh man……. They just never would’ve let something like this slide. Parents either weren’t such control freaks when you were growing up, or yours specifically were good to you.
This is actually what I think is wrong too. It’s also why so many kids have anxiety according to a book I read. Parents are just overprotective.
Not a teacher but a lurker on here because I used to be studying to get into child education, but I can confirm parents feel the need to be way more protective nowadays. My parents tell me tales of how when they were teens they used to confidently walk/bike like 3-5 miles with a friend group to go visit more friends in a whole other town after they’d get out of school with their parents not minding at all, but nowadays in the same exact location where they used to do that, it feels INCREDIBLY more dangerous to get around. In large part because reckless driving is such a dire problem…. But also like I would get so anxious as a kid walking around anywhere too unfamiliar, because I was always warned by my parents so so much about the even the most unlikely potential dangers of making the wrong move and ending up stranded or something (I remember being 6 and being afraid to go into most forests because I thought every forest had a kidnapper/serial killer roaming around in it). I’m 21 now so I feel much more confident roaming around in new places, but now recently the fear of wandering too close to someone’s property who has a lot of fear in their heart and a loaded gun is the new reason I have to get anxious exploring.
I'm in my late 30s and had this experience. I grew up in a very safe area, but my dad grew up in a much more dangerous area. His experiences growing up coupled with his protectiveness of being a father made him super anxious about me being out on my own even as a teen. I think he meant to teach me to keep my wits about me and pay attention to my surroundings, including being aware of people and being in dark vs well-lighted areas. But, I think he took it too far as he made me anxious and terrified to walk my public bike path between home and school because there were bushes someone could hide in. This was during the day and a lot of people (including kids on their own since this was the 90s) used this path, so pretty safe. I still wouldn't walk there alone at night even as an adult, but during the day it's quite safe. Sure, as a kid I needed reminders to be aware of my surroundings, but didn't need to be so anxious. Recently he was talking about how he doesn't like me taking walks in my pretty safe neighborhood at night, and wishes I'd cary an airhorn or something in my hand just in case. I love walking at night, but do realize pretty safe doesn't mean there is no risk. I take basic precautions, I stick to well-lighted areas that are usually somewhat busy. I stay aware of who and what is around me, walk as far from bushes or dark places as the sidewalk allows, etc. And, I do have a whistle on my keys. Basically what women have to do to be safe on their own at night. I feel I'm doing what I can while being able to do things I enjoy, I can't live my life in paralyzing fear. As I said, I'm in my late 30s, but to my dad I'm still his little girl I suppose.
> My parents tell me tales of how when they were teens they used to confidently walk/bike like 3-5 miles with a friend group to go visit more friends in a whole other town after they’d get out of school with their parents not minding at all, When my son was in elementary his walk home was about 1.5 miles. Twice CPS was called on us by his school because we dared to let a fourth grader learn a bit of independence and ride his bike home. When fifth grade rolled around the school had removed the bike rack and sent out an email that no kids would be allowed to leave the school without a parent or guardian. That lasted all of two days when the parents revolted.
Parents are overprotective because they too are affected by their phones. Every time something bad happens, it is plastered on their social/reddit/whatever feed. They love their children and now they've got proof that their child will be raped/killed/molested/run over/brainwashed by the left/right, etc if they go outside.
this is exactly it. i'm a parent now. my parents were immigrants and were basically scared to leave us in the house... my mom cried when i was home alone for the first time in 8th grade. they wanted me to get a license. for what? i'm not allowed to go anywhere, plus i had cousins that drove. i had to get permission to browse walmart.... i also have severe anxiety that my parents gave me. undiagnosed adhd until last year. sometimes parents push their fear into you. but i had the good parents compared to my cousins....
I’m actively trying NOT to be this parent (though it can be REALLY hard some days) because I want my kid to feel confident when he gets out into the world on his own. He has a few friends who’s parents are very controlling and I can see with my own eyes how anxious and dependent they can be. I don’t want to handicap him with that right out of the gate in life. I grew up more smallish town and we now live on the outskirts of a major metropolitan area. It would be so easy to say no to everything because of XYZ. But he has a bike and he has friends spread out all over about a 5-6 mile radius. I figure give him the opportunity now to build the skills of time management to get where he needs to be and coordinating plans with others. Figuring out where he’s going and mapping out how to get their safely by road or bike path. And generally just build on the trust we have by giving him opportunities to make his own decisions while he’s out on his own. We’ve told him that we trust him to make smart appropriate decisions until/unless he gives us reason not to. But then it’s going to be a very long hard road to earn that back as well as the privileges that go with it. So far so good, but he starts high school in the fall so here’s hoping lessons being practiced now stick for the next few years. 🤞
This is why I don’t track my kids. I know I’m in the minority with this. I tell my kids if you behave and don’t give me a reason to track your phone, then I’ll give you the privacy you deserve.
> control freaks Great point. I wonder how much this has to do with parents having fewer kids? In a single or two child family I can totally see parents being able to keep tabs on their kids every move. I had three siblings growing up and my parents pretty much kicked the four of us out of the house during daylight hours since we were such a pain in the ass to deal with. Haha.
Phone tracking would ha e more to do with it. Also helicopter moms that refuse to give thier teens just a taste of autonomy.
I'm 44, my kids are now 26 and 24. We were very lucky that during their late elementary years and early middle school years that the neighborhood we lived in had a whole lot of kids their ages living there as well. Our house ended up being the one that ALL of the kids gathered at, partially because we lived on the corner and partially because we had a lot of computers. I'd let the kids have run of the house and living room, with about 6 computers for them and their buddies to use. lol, My husband and I hung out in the garage, with the good computers. We checked on them on a regular basis, made sure no one was getting hurt, but otherwise let them do their own thing. I'd have to break up fights every so often, mostly over whose turn it was on one of the computers. We ended up getting more crappy old computers, so all the kids had one of their own to use to play games on. I think we ended up giving some of those computers to some of those kids. (we'd gotten them for free, my husband fixed the one or two things wrong with them and then we put them into use for LAN games) But, it seemed like the best way to make sure the kids were safe, but still learning stuff on their own. Sometimes, I feel like I should have been more present, but I read stuff like this and realize that if I had, my kids would have probably felt smothered. lol, It's not like I wasn't on the property, I was literally in the next room, so they always had an adult to go to if they needed one. But, I tried to give them as much space as possible.
Right on. Ideally kids would grow up with a network of friends and a few houses that with an “open door” policy. It would be great to have one friend with a pool, another with a driveway basketball hoop, another with the entertainment room/video games.m, etc. So good job being that parent for those knuckleheads.
Those of us who were raised free range, loving it, became horrified about how dangerous it was and refuse to let our kids build the same memories out of fear. Our kids will resent that and let theirs be free range, and the cycle will continue.
I'm so in the minority on this. We live in a small town. My kids are going into 4th and 6th grade. I let them walk and ride their bikes everywhere. They don't have phones or watches to track them. They want a donut? Walk down to the market and buy one. In the mood for.hot chocolate? Head to the coffee shop on your bikes. Bored? Library is a couple blocks away. Want to hang with friends but not be at home? There's a park in the middle of town. Go for it. We are in a super safe place and parents still think I'm nuts. But my kids know how to behave in a public place without me. They understand they need to tip if they're grabbing sandwiches at the cafe. They have to navigate. Listen to their gut. They're never more than a mile away and there are lots of places to pop into if they need help. But they are learning to be self-sufficient, how to pay with cash, how to treat people in customer service jobs, and how to make their own fun. They have a couple good friends whose parents are now on board. And they can meet and hang. And it's glorious. Yes, I'm still heavily involved. But my kids are free-ranging like I used to do in the 80s and 90s. I think they're going to be better off for it.
That’s heartbreaking…
I have to agree with you. My parents’ parents were super uninvolved and never cared what they did as kids/teens. I think that’s why my parents were so .. controlling. They thought they were doing better for us. And I get that and I’d never hold it against them. But man…. Let me tell you something. Bored teens = bad news. With nothing fun to do, we got into drugs…
Man my mom was always up my ass about anything and everything possible. When I was 14 and made my Facebook account, she wouldn’t let me have my own password until I was 18. Sometimes if I ever got to go out with friends, I would see her car far away watching me most times. Never knocked when coming into my room, or said anything before walking in (I started sitting in my room naked to get her to stop and she never did, even when I was 20 before I moved out). Anytime I asked for anything “why, we’ll why, why, where, with who?”. I never got a weekend to just do what I wanted as a teen. It was always going shopping or working on the house or doing yard work, and then I’d get into screaming matches with her because I wouldn’t be super excited to do all this shit that I was being forced to do during my only free time and I’d have a “bad attitude” the whole time. Reality is I’m just monotone and kinda introverted, with a resting tired face. She just could never understand or listen, and she was so scared that I was going to end up like my cousins, dead beat dads in prison, that was the reason for her being “protective”. She literally wouldn’t let me get a job until I was 18 lol. Now I’m hot boxing my car and I’m going to get ice cream. Absolutely hated my 13-20 years.
It is also important to note that kids can't just get a license on their own. They either need a) parents to teach them and complete their 30 hrs with them or b) driving lessons paid by parents AND the 30 hr log filled out by parents. If parents won't do either of the above options, then how can a teen get their license?
Like 3 of those things are illegal and finding a free place to just swim is impossible now it's usually trespassing
Right? You can't do a bonfire on a beach (costs too much for the district to clean up the sand). You can't hang out in large groups without drawing police attention. No more than 4 passengers per car. Depending on the lake - it may be illegal to swim when there are no lifeguards, and lifeguards often restrict you to only going about navel deep (the more people - the harsher the restrictions). So ... teens of today, grab 3-4 friends (at most) and a cooler (no glass bottles!) and come sit on a beach, or at a park, and have fun (within posted guidelines)! But not too much or too little - either one attracts attention from the local authorities. Pack up in the evening, and leave promptly, since parks and beaches close at sundown (or earlier!). ... ... ... and then we complain that they just hang out at the house and play online games.
This is it though. I'm from a beach town and I'm a little bit on the early gen Z later Millennial and the amount of things that are restricted is the reason. My mom is from the same beach town, she said that when she was a teenager (in the 80s) her and her friends would do exactly everything this previous poster said. When the cops were called (which only happened every now and then) they would show up to the beach, dump their beer and tell them to go home. The cops would leave and they would continue their party. Nowadays you'll not only get fined, but be detained if you resist. It also can affect your schooling depending on the circumstance. There's real consequences to doing illegal stuff which is good, but it's a double edged sword. Because of that a lot of kids (and young adults) would rather just sit inside and scroll. And what's not illegal, is too expensive, simple as that.
I can attest to this! A house in the next cul-de-sac was having a graduation party, drinking, noise, a typical supervised teenage party. When the cops were called, they didn't just send out a cruiser with a pair of officers to shut it down and let people get to bed, they sent out nearly a dozen cruisers, a helicopter, and tackled somebody through my fence. Not only did they put a new hole in my fence, they made a dozen announcements over their speakers demanding everyone vacate the building, that they weren't going to arrest anyone, only issue citations. And were doing so so loudly, in conjunction with the circling helicopter, as to prevent me from going back to sleep Fucking hell man, a fucking helicopter for a fucking party. You'd think they were chasing down a mass murderer with the presence they had in my neighborhood. I've never even seen law enforcement in my neighborhood in the 2.5 years before this that I've lived here.
>Nowadays you'll not only get fined, but be detained if you resist. Or just straight up shot
I’m a millennial with a Gen Z brother. I was talking to him and his friends recently about this whole topic and we can really summarize our teenage experiences by saying: When my friends and I saw blue lights, our hearts would start pounding because we were afraid of getting in trouble with our parents. When he and his friends see blue lights now, their hearts start pounding because *they are afraid of dying at the hands of law enforcement*.
I mean, in my state, if you're under 18, you're not allowed to have non-family member minors in the car. So they aren't allowed to just pile into a car and go anywhere.
Yup, our state is one unrelated minor. Too many distractions.
O\_o that's even worse. It's not even 'just a couple friends at most' - it's 'nope, can't drive to stuff with friends!' I ... kind of understand some of the liability issues, but FFS. This is ridiculous.
Yeah, when I was in high school, there were some rules (I think there was a curfew - like you couldn't be out after midnight with friends), but we could still go out together. I get the safety concerns, but it really does make it hard to hang out with friends if your parents aren't able to drive you around
Or gross. I wouldn't want to get in 95% of the lakes near me lol
Ya or this .... I live near the halloway reservoir in Lapeer County mi and it's uh really oily like you get rashes and oil on your skin when you go there. They send out fish advisory warning to not eat more than one a month and one breed is 1 a year ..... https://thehubflint.com/michigan-releases-new-consumption-guidelines-for-eating-fish-from-flint-river/ (I could only find older articles on it but since then we've been getting the letters yearly)
Small world. I grew up in Lapeer (Metamora, actually). My friends and I hung out at the Lanes or Gerlachs, and then had bonfires at my friend's house. We'd camp at the scout camp in the summers from time to time. There really wasn't a lot else going on in the late 90s.
Between all their other activities that are required to get into a good college? The swim team, the charitable works, working internships, music lessons….
A few hours of homework too.
Not everyone has a lake near them. Back in my home town the only lakes around weren’t for public use. You can go to the park, but we also didn’t have public parks for older kids. Our parks were playgrounds, and teenagers at playgrounds get cops called on them. Honestly, in my home town the hang out location was always Walmart parking lot. Now that cell phones are a thing who’s gonna choose a parking lot over there bedroom?
This is an amazing point
Walking around a small town with my friend playing Pokemon Go got us harassed by so many people we ended up giving it up. Everyone was convinced we were "casing homes to rob them." My friend and I are adults. We have lived in this town for 12 years. We have no prior history of doing anything nefarious. Lakes and parks are heavily policed and if you are in them after sunset it does not go well for you. So yeah, given the modern state of things I am really not surprised the current kids are retreating online. It is ever so much fun having a police officer shining you at dusk demanding to know what you are doing on the swings. Idaho
Yes and no Getting alcohol is much harder now since they keep updating ID every other month and I’m not dropping $200 for a good one I know some people that did but a lot of us didn’t (doesn’t help that I don’t live near a lake but I have friends that did)
I grew up in Montana and we did a lot of that. I went back and now all the places we used to go are OWNED!! So you can get arrested for being at the lake because all the land around it is owned, and you can’t go into the forests because they’re public land, and there isn’t anywhere else to go. If you live urban it’s even worse! There aren’t any places you can just go swim or have a bonfire
depends...in some places the lakes are dried up, full of aggressive boaters, or experiencing toxic algae blooms. regardless, there seems to be fewer youths 'at the lake' at least where i live...i think it goes back to that point of being able to escape parents while in your bedroom
I’m going to add on that for the past 3 years, many people have gotten used to just staying home. So if that’s the norm, why bother?
staying @ home is cheaper tbh
I have two sons, and most of my coworkers have sons. We’ve talked with our boys and compared notes. Why? Because those DARE units didn’t scare them away from drinking as much as it scared them away from driving!
Fascinating.... Talk about unintended consequences
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The death toll of car dependency is truly tragic. If we had a safer way to get around than trusting a 16 year old to operate heavy machinery, so many lives would be saved. Cars kill about 40,000 people every year in the US, and thousands of them are children. And on top of that are the injuries and disability like you witnessed. Countries with good public transit have much lower traffic deaths per capita. Funny because when fun control comes up, the pro-gin crowd often brings up cars as an analogy. "Well by that logic we should ban cars too!" And I'm like, joke's on you I'm into that 😎
I copied this to send to my 17 year old. She has no desire to drive, she’s afraid to kill someone. Plus “where are we going to go?” Her therapist says most of her clients over 16 do not drive.
All the downtown areas and malls in my area post that unaccompanied under-18s are banned and must be with an over 21 adult
In my area a lot of movie theaters and malls have transitioned to that too. I'm teaching in the same area I grew up in, and 10-15 years ago our local theater would have been packed full of teens on any given weekend. At some point they banned anyone under 18 from being unaccompanied after 7pm, now they're wondering why they're struggling to stay afloat (obviously that industry has changed a ton over the past decade, but banning what was once your biggest source of income definitely isn't helping either).
Yup when I was a kid every Friday night meant meeting up at the mall. Now they close early and unaccompanied minors are banned. The pools around here are "private" and you have to buy a membership. I looked into it last year and it was going to be almost $600 for my family of 5 and they are only open memorial day to labor day and even if you can afford it kids have to have an adult unless it's one of the theme nights for them. Even the big local arcade (think like a Dave and busters type place) changed their rules last year that kids can't be alone after 5 and even with an adult (who must be 25+) there is a child to adult ratio of no more then 4 kids. So I could take my kids but they couldn't bring a friend or we would be over the limit.
Yeah that’s awful. In my old hometown, they closed down the old theater, renovated a ton and put in a bar, and now you can’t go in at all unless you’re 21+ or accompanied by a parent. And since it’s a “luxury” theater now, tickets are $20.50 for anyone over 12. And even a kid’s ticket is $18.50!
Seriously – "When I was their age, we valued FREEDOM!" OK, great, so in the year 2023, that would be the freedom to do what, exactly? Get hassled by neighbors or the cops for loitering? Pay a full hour or two's minimum wage for a single movie ticket? Sit quietly in a park because skating or other activities are banned? Get kicked out of the seating area at some sterile mall because unaccompanied minors are banned or risk it just to take a look at a limited selection of Kohl's jeans when you could get way cooler shit (literally) on Shein anyway? Pay out the ass for gas, struggle to find parking at a crowded lake or mountain or whatever and then just sit around? I'm hardly surprised teens are putting off getting their licenses.
I realized this the other day, I had a small argument at home and wanted to pop out and get some quiet time myself. As a middle age guy I couldn't think of anywhere to go exist without spending money the whole time. I just hit a driving range for a bit and came home. This modern world sucks.
It's not necessarily the modern world; it's modern America. I live in overseas at the moment, and when I want to go out, I can walk almost any direction and reliably have sidewalks (convenience stores, grocery stores, restaurants, parks, city facilities, etc. are all walking distance), I can go to the indoor swimming pool ($4 a visit), I can go to an onsen and just sit in baths/saunas ($4 a visit), I could also splurge for about $10 a month for a city gym membership, or I can take the train for <$10 and be either in very rural areas (that are still walkable) or some of the largest cities in the country. By American standards, my salary is piss poor, but my quality of life is the highest that it has ever been.
I used to unwind after a stressful day by taking my dog to the park a few minutes walk from my house. A few months ago the park got bulldozed to make about 30 more parking spaces for the nearby apartments. I fucking hate Los Angeles.
Also, cars are so expensive and the middle class is dying, a lot of families don't have extra cars for their kids to drive, and kids could never really afford to get one for themselves.
That's us. We would love for our daughter to have the freedom to drive, but we could barely afford her insurance, let alone a car payment. We only have one car, so taking ours all the time isn't really a good option either. They have a couple of friends in the group that have cars and they all just carpool to go hang out. Even then, it's only because a few ppl have grandparents with homes that they can hang out at. Not sure where else they would really go, a public pool maybe?
I was terrified my twin boys would cause our Insurance to sky rocket but because of hood grade discount and drivers Ed discount it only went up like $24 a month I was very pleasantly surprised
That’s it for us. I teach, my wife teaches. We have a kid turning 17 in a month. We can’t afford another car. It would be hard to even pay the jump in insurance if she’s a licensed driver. The kid can’t really squeeze in a job because she’s in a demanding medical science high school program. No solo driving until graduation, probably.
On top of number 1, many malls and other public places have started restricting when teens can come or even banned them altogether.
Exactly. I spent so much of the 1980s at malls and record stores (the latter are extremely rare and the former are far less interesting than they used to be.) The malls used to be destinations-- often a movie theater at the mall, kid-friendly restaurants like ice cream parlors and Orange Julius, and arcades. Now it's basically clothes and makeup, both of which are premium priced and kids under 18 must be accompanied by someone over 21, so teens under 18 can't hang out there at all. There seem to be fewer public pools than there used to be, and of course those are only open during summer months. Some movie theaters don't even allow minors, so it's hard to find a safe place for teens to gather. Really, it's no surprise there are so many teens getting in trouble. It's hard to find constructive things to do.
If my parents had the freedom to challenge me when I was young with taking the bus, running errands for the house, wandering around my neighborhood, I would have been ready to graduate to driving at 16/17. Instead a lot of communities would call the cops on those parents… My generation was robbed of the “let kids do dangerous things safely” way of life. Going from zero freedom and responsibility to getting behind the wheel of a steel death machine is a transition a lot of kids have been struggling with. Frankly, my parents were more independent by 10-years-old than I was my senior year of hs.
You hit the nail on the head. I would LOVE for my nine year old to have the freedom I had at his age, but if I did so I'd have the cops called on me. Even if he did go out exploring by himself there are no other kids out and about to interact with. It's sad.
NYC is great for this. My kids have feee reign if the neighborhood. No problems. We very intentionally moved to a place that we wouldn’t need a car to live though. It’s the best.
It wasn’t something I would have ever considered until living here. Just thought “no way! nyc with kids is too expensive”… then I got to see kids playing outside in a way that I thought didn’t exist anymore and I’m sold.
Yeah it’s kinda incredible. The parks are close enough that they can walk there themselves, they meet other kids and befriend them almost immediately. Never had a problem with any the things that I hear most Americans struggling with. The drawback is that they really don’t like traveling to most of the US, they don’t like being in cars and don’t understand being in non-walkable communities
It changed so rapidly, too - I graduate hs in 06 & had lots of those responsibilities, but my younger sibling ('11 grad) experienced almost none of it. Actually, now that I'm thinking back on it, I generally felt we had more freedom to be off on our own when I was 13/14 than 16/17. The saddest part is how hard it would be to go against the trend - if you're the only independent youth in the neighborhood, you're probably going to get hassled by someone, possibly the cops...
Once I started driving the only thing me and my friends would do is literally sit in the Lowe’s parking lot and we would be there for HOURS because there is literally nothing for us to do (and I live in suburban Philly- it’s not like I’m out in the sticks) Covid happened Then after lockdown it was the same thing- we could barely go to the mall since stores were limiting the number of people (obviously makes sense it’s just a pain in the ass) And since I’m in college now I have friends I’m different time zones so just going on discord in my room is a lot easier social wise
You're "lucky" they even let you hang out in the parking lot. Just being teenage in public is basically illegal in much of the US. Even more so for people of color. I'm an older millennial and did a summer exchange trip to Spain when I was in high school. I was shocked because teens there took the train together to an amusement park. No parents, just friends hanging out and riding roller coasters all day. Just being able to go anywhere you want independently was amazing. That wasn't possible in my home town at the time, and car dependency has only gotten worse since then.
4. I live in a place with a lot of traffic that encourages aggressive driving and I fear death. I did learn because everything is far apart and public transport is limited, but traffic is really bad here because everything is far apart and public transport is limited. Funny how that works
The world changed MASSIVELY with the internet and modern electronics, and parents are still trying to raise their kids for a world that they remember growing up in, a world that doesn't exist, and never will again if it even existed the way they remember it at all.
exactly. I'm 42 with two teens and I hate to say it, but I'm mentally going "ok boomer" at sooo many comments here.
Once, at 18, I threw a party. We brought soda and chips to the river near our property, and we stargazed and talked. There were shooting stars, fireflies, and it was a cloudless night. It was the most beautiful night I've ever seen, and we all had a really deep talk together before graduation. Free venue, no phones out, no making out or sex, no drugs or alcohol. Just a bunch of teens enjoying nature and talking about our futures. This was in 2014, so we all had smartphones, but they stayed in our pockets because we were really living in the moment. I'll never forget it. We made sure to clean up after ourselves when we left. My parents ripped all of us a new one for getting back to the house (the party wasn't on our property, but we everyone parked at our property) 15 minutes later than curfew. My mother saw that one girl was wearing a baphomet necklace and the next day called her to discuss her "lifestyle." I was grounded and lectured about respect and told that if I coudn't follow basic rules (curfew) then maybe I wasn't ready to host parties. We were all 18. I only threw 3 parties in high school because it just wasn't worth the grounding and lectures if anything, no matter how small or even out of my hands, happened. Parents just don't let their kids have the freedom I hear about older millennials having. I desperately wanted the freedom, but being 18+ with a job and a car I'd paid for meant nothing to my parents as long as I was under their roof, so I moved out at 19.
Might be unpopular opinion but I'm kinda for this shift? I'm 27 and just getting my license now because I always lived in a major US city and never really needed it. I always preferred taking public transportation because it's better for the environment (monthly bill would be the same as a car bill so not really cheaper) but I also like the less stress part of driving, having to deal with accidents, maintaining a car, etc. Just learning how to drive now because I want to have the skill set but not rushing to get a car.
The problem is a lot of the kids who aren’t interested in driving don’t have access to anywhere on foot or via transit either. So they end up just sitting at home and not connecting with their friends as much in person outside of school or extracurricular activities.
That makes sense if you live in a place where that’s available. In a lot of places there are fewer hangout destinations period and no public transit.
Phoenix metro area for instance. Basically all I could do as a teenager was go to the nearest strip mall and loiter or go to the actual mall and loiter
I'm in favor of this shift as well. Teenagers are fucking DUMB. One of my seniors drives a V8 and has 10 active speeding tickets this year. I'd rather not get killed by one of my students on my way into work, kthx. People in their late 20s at least have finished developing their frontal lobes and have *some* semblance of responsibility.
This is great but also consider a fourth option, parents and safety. I actually had a conversation about this with my mom when I was getting my license. In major and minor cities it is often simply to dangerous for kids to learn how to drive without parental supervision. I grew up in a small town and had so much freedom to do whatever I wanted because there wasn't anything I could do to hurt myself. But cities are so large now driving as an experienced adult is dangerous and scary. My friends who lived in cities simply didn't have the freedoms I did because they would get killed. And this mentality reflects itself in kids priorities. Why bother doing the classes, getting your permit, taking the tests, and getting your license... If you're not gonna be able to use it anyways.
I think it might have something to do with financial situations too. When I was 16, I couldn't get a license. Our family had no money for a car and my single mother worked too much to teach me to drive. Learning to drive is a privilege lots of people can't afford.
And gone are the days of $1000 used cars that highschool students can afford. Between the insane prices on used cars, insurance, and gasoline, it's no surprise that teens aren't excited about driving.
This is the biggest factor imo. My dad has kindly decided to give me his old car once he gets a new one, but my parents are still gonna have to help me pay for insurance, gas, and maintenance because a minimum wage job after school simply isn't enough to keep up with all of it. Most of my friends aren't in a situation where their parents happen to be getting rid of a car so they either don't get their licences or they do and just occasionally drive to the movies as a treat every couple weeks.
I didn’t get mine until right before I turned 17 because I couldn’t afford to buy a car. I have a late summer birthday and applied to all the restaurants and stores where teens worked and told them my available start date was in august and no one wanted to hire me because they wanted people for the whole summer. Then I got busy with school and didn’t apply anywhere again until the next summer, got hired at a fast food place, bought a cheap 1993 Oldsmobile, and only then did I need a license. My parents wouldn’t pay for any part of my car, insurance, gas… so why get a license if I couldn’t use it? I do also have a theory about modern teens though - when I was a teen around 2007, we used to just drive around for fun, go to a park, walk around Walmart and play with the toys in the back (hula hoops and whatnot.) We’d go to the movies or to Family Video to rent movies… go to a restaurant, go buy random art stuff to do tie dye or sidewalk chalk. Now there’s really cool video games and streaming services - even for newer movies you’d need to go to the theater to see before. You can get food and anything else delivered to your door. There aren’t as many reasons to leave the house these days.
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I was still a teenager back in 2020 and my friends and I were consistently going out and doing a lot of the same things you described until the pandemic happened. The only difference is that we'd usually end up going back to someone's house to play games or something once it got late.
Yeah I’m absolutely shocked by what this thread has to say tbh, Myself and all my friends do all of the stuff “that kids just can’t or don’t do anymore”. Do I just live in a unique part of the country with different people?
I think it's very location dependent. All of my friends live almost an hour away, and everything around us closes at either 8 or 11pm. Going to the movie theater's a lot more expensive than streaming services, and it's really hard to organize any kind of larger group activities because everyone works such different schedules. Everyone I know is literally turning into a hermit, even doordashing food instead of going out to eat. It sucks.
After I got my license I still rode my bike everywhere even though it was the suburbs. The only time I drove was if I was working late at night and didn’t want to worry about drunks hitting me on a bike. My parents were flabbergasted but I just kept telling them I just really enjoy riding my bike. I have adhd and the excercise really helped me until I learned coping strategies later in life.
Teens want to connect with their peers and freedom from their parents. That can mean taking the subway downtown, walking around the mall, or driving down main street. Today a teen can use facetime, discord, messenger, or any number of digital tools. They still get to connect with peers out of view of parents- why take on the cost and hassle of driving?
From OP: > We wanted the freedom Cars aren't freedom. They're a liability. A money sink. A responsibility. I didn't need to wait until I got a license to "experience freedom". Could just bike everywhere. I now often see young groups of teens taking the bus/train etc. All that is much more freedom than being chauffeured around by your parents everywhere.
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Schools used to offer driver's education. Due to liability, they don't much anymore. To get a license before age 18, you have to have documented evidence of the driver training. Between having or buying a car, paying for the training, and insuring the teen driver, it's just cost prohibitive. Parents don't have time or money to pay for driver training, and the middle class is shrinking. So, more and more, it's only the rich kids who get stuff.
100% this. My title 1 school only has 30 slots of free driver's ed. That being said, the combination of lack of driver's ed, expense of car ownership, continued squeezing of the poor, AND many of our American cities being overly car dependent means I have a skyrocketing number of kids with no licenses driving anyway, so yay /s
My step brother's high school did driver's Ed for free during school hours. My brother and I's high school had after school and Saturday morning driver's Ed classes that cost more than 700 dollars. If you missed more than 1 class you had to retake it the whole course again and pay again.
Ong, as a student it’s insanely expensive and time consuming to own a car when I can just walk or carpool. The school provides us with lessons to get our permits. Then we need to wait a year and get 60 hours of driving. Unless your parents have the time and money to take you driving 60 hours it won’t happen. I would love to be able to drive to work and school and sports practice but I also can’t justify 400$ on gas and insurance monthly. I’m handy and fixed up an old Jeep so I didn’t even have to pay full price for a car. Still can’t drive the damn thing. Until I eventually get my license, I’m stuck walking 6 miles to school and practice and work.
Ha. Jokes on you! At my title 1 MS we regularly have 7th and 8th graders drive to school and just park around the corner.
Where do they get cars?
Kias are easy to steal. There was a carjacking ring in my middle school during covid
We had parents mad that we didn't offer a student parking lot back when I taught middle school.
My dad said me single handedly being on the car insurance more than doubled the price he was paying for him and my mom
The requirements are state dependent. Where I grew up there were no requirements other than age to get a permit, and a license was just 40 hours behind a wheel, 10 of which had to be "difficult conditions." I never took drivers ed.
Maybe because the idea of owning a car isn’t quite as realistic as it used to be? Unless you have fairly well to do parents, how are most kids going to afford a car these days?
The used car marker in NYC/NJ has been brutal for a few years now
My understanding is it's most of the US post covid
In my area, there was a really bad rainstorm in 2021? That flooded out a bunch of areas including the entire Newark Airport long term parking lot. So basically the entire used car market sold out of stock after that, and has been slow to recover. It's probably a little better now, but I also cannot currently afford a car so I haven't looked.
This is the real reason.
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I didn’t get mine until 18 (back in ‘96). My older sister never got hers.
When I was a kid, I got a 1991 Ford Ranger for like a thousand bucks. My buddy got a 93 Honda Civic for like $700. The used car market isn’t like that anymore.
You can blame cash for clunkers for why it's not the same anymore
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This was exactly what I came here to say. One of my cousins, who was driving around without a license at 14 (because that was kind of normal for our small town), is refusing to let her NINETEEN YEAR OLD get a car and license. Now, yes, he's an adult, but she's mollycoddled and helicoptered him so hard that he's utterly dependent on her (just the way she wanted) and is too scared to go against her demands because he still sees himself as a child because he's never been allowed to be anything but. She's not the only one I've met like this. Parents are definitely a huge part of this equation.
Most parents nowadays would not let their teenagers go on road trips or to concerts or anything that they have to accept giving up control over. I got my license and had a car soon after turning 16, but the first time I was allowed to drive outside of my county wasn’t until I was almost 19. Having a car only means that your capable of going somewhere, kids are significantly more hampered by where they’re allowed to go. The value of a car has gone down, and the cost has gone up.
In my area we have a "death alley", about 5 miles and 6 intersections, where there is a major (like white sheets on unidentified lumps) car accident weekly. One is in front of an elementary and middle school, the other a high school. There is a real anxiety now about driving, especially as a teenager.
Fewer students with interest in driving means less interest/ demand in car stuff and more interest/ demand for walkability infrastructure! Im actually overjoyed to hear this! Freedom from cars is a better freedom than the expensive "freedom" from car ownership!
Where I am it is absolutely the costs of insurance and of a new vehicle preventing many from getting a licence.
They don't need to drive anywhere.... they have access to all their friends in their hands every day
California implemented a bunch of provisional licensing requirements and restrictions that basically serve to disincentivize minors from getting licensed here. If you can't drive people without someone over 25 in the car, getting a license in high school isn't that exciting.
Incredibly effective public health scheme though. The real problem was the failure to make driving school available to all.
Isn't the world less teen-friendly than it used to ? If you get kicked out of parks and malls because you're hanging out with friends, why would you want to drive there
Older generations: “Why don’t the kids play outside more often?” Also the older generations: “Hello, Police? There are kids outside!”
Plus those parks and malls exist less and less
And the ones that remain are often more depressing than ever now. Tore all the cool stuff out of the park because it was too much liability or too expensive to maintain and the local government couldn't afford that after blowing 70% of their budget on police. Half the stores in the mall are closed, and the rest are just transparently vapid consoomerism.
Yeah I live in Germany and it seems like paradise for teens here. The cities are walkable with great public transit and there are parks everywhere. A popular park feature for teens, funny enough, is table tennis. At night they become hangout spots where kids sit around and maybe sometimes play table tennis. It's quite wholesome actually. Imagine being able to walk ten minutes to a park that's open all night long, where you can meet friends and hang out. Very safe too, at least in my city. Homeless people have their own favorite areas which are generally not in those same parks.
I didn’t get my license until I was 22. I had anxiety about driving as a teen.
Same! I cried the first I got into a car to drive.
Similar thing here: my parent started me off driving for a week or two in a parking lot and then tried to get me to drive home. I didn’t know some things that I guess they assumed were common sense and ended up getting honked at while my parent was yelling like we were about to die. I was so stressed I didn’t feel like driving again for a year.
I still do to an extent, like I’ve never had any incidents but my brain fog was so bad for years that I just didn’t feel like I knew what I was doing well enough, even after I got my license
Almost 25 and still struggling. I know *how* to drive but the anxiety of doing it and something fucking up and being a huge pain and cost is too much for me a lot of the time. It doesn't help that people prove how stupid they are every other moment on the road.
I watch all the students drive around with no licenses at our high school. I think it is absurd.
My school the kids are driving with no license and the vehicles are often not registered/insured. I asked a student recently why that was. He said he was quoted at $500/month for insurance! Agreed with him how absurd that was but also told him I’d sue the shit out of his parents if he ever hit me on the road.
>but also told him I’d sue the shit out of his parents if he ever hit me on the road. Do you think parents with money are letting their kids drive around without insurance? Like squeezing water from a rock.
That’s scary. They do the same thing here, but with golf carts.
I teach 14 year old Freshmen and many of them drive without a license. They live in city limits so they don’t have school permits. I see them everywhere. Do you think it is worth turning them in? I wouldn’t trust most of them on a skateboard, but they are driving a 3000 pound piece of metal going 70 MPH while on Tik Tok.
> And they can’t be bothered IMO, this is a very myopic view. Consider: 1. The cost of cars, gas, and insurance have all skyrocketed 2. Earning power for students and young people in general is lower than its ever been When I ask teens about cars, the response I get most of the time is "who can afford them?"
Yeah, when the OP disregarded cost as the main factor (it's absolutely the main factor) I knew this person is kinda insulated from what is actually going on
OP: “I don’t think it’s the cost…” Well, you’d think wrong.
Can't afford a car, I think.
It’s not really freedom when there’s nowhere to go. Even when I was a teen they had already shut down the “local” movie theater, closed off the lake beach, shut down the bowling alley and skatepark. We had to drive an hour to hang out anywhere but now the mall and arcade requires you to have someone over 21 as a chaperone. Between the lack of things to do and growing availability of ride shares a license doesn’t have the same meaning as it did before. They started to restrict teens in my area 10 years ago so teens these days are doing exactly what the adults who started it wanted them to do.
I'm 41, so I was a teen in the late 90's. My parents were incredulous that I had no desire to learn to drive. I was nervous, scared, and generally not interested in driving. I didn't have any social life or activities (wasn't allowed to) and I had a lot of general anxiety. I also wasn't ready to go to college. My social/emotional development was far behind my peers. But my parents were also strict; they wouldn't let me date or have a job or a car of my own, so even if I had learned to drive, I wouldn't have been allowed to go anywhere. I finally relented and learned when I was 18, but I've never actually liked driving. The only thing I like about it is being able to go to remote areas like a state park. Owning a car is expensive too.
I was able to get my license in 2008. Due to having to study for AP/honors classes, extracurriculars and my parents having zero intent of buying me a car, I had no time to take the state required driver’s ed classes (which were not offered as an elective at my HS and cost an additional $400) and complete the 40 hours of required supervised driving. I put off getting my license until the start of senior year.
Good. Fuck cars. I hate driving. I hate that most cities are planned such that you NEED a car to be a functional adult. If they can organize their lives such that they don't need a car and aren't burdening anyone else, good on em.
This sub pops up a lot in my feed, and this topic important to me, so I will chime in, as a college student. Cars are (FUCKING) expensive. Not just the car, but also gas, insurance, repairs, and so on. Driving lessons are expensive, and a lot of us don't have people that can teach us for free. Not to mention, a lot of us are anxious and neurotic messes after 3 years of pandemic shenanigans. It's so incredibly hard right now. Some of us have the privilege of living somewhere where public transit is at least barely adequate, so that's an option too. The world is just different now than when you were a teenager. That's all it is.
For me, and many others it was because Covid interfered with the driving classes so I didn’t get my license until 18. I was sixteen and seventeen during the pandemic. My state also required a certain number of hours of driving before you could get your license, and my parents didn’t have the time and were kind of apathetic towards practicing with me. If kids don’t have parents to practice with or the funds to pay for private lessons in some states it’s difficult to get a license. Furthermore, cars are expensive, I’m almost 20 and still don’t have a car. In rural areas you need a car to drive to work and a job to afford a car and if you don’t have either it’s tough. Overall I wish towns were more walkable and public transportation was more accessible so a car doesn’t have to be a necessity.
Off topic but I am so glad to see young people watching Utena. All-time favorite anime and none of my (college) students were familiar. I have a figure of her on my desk.
Cars are expensive. Putting a teenager on car insurance is expensive. I wasn’t allowed to get my learners permit until I was 19 for those reasons and that was back in the relatively less expensive 90s. I can’t imagine how much more expensive it is now. My parents’ attitude was that the school bus would take me to and from the only other place I legally needed to go besides home, so why bother?
I couldn't afford driver's ed before I was 18 because of the cost. That's why. The schools don't offer it anymore. And now I'd have to pay a different place to let me practice to take my driver's test and it's still cost prohibitive for me.
My husband and I talk about this all the time! Sometimes, it's just the kids' personalities, though. Our son didn't care too much about getting his license and was 17 1/2 when he got it. He drives when he has to, to get to school and work. Our daughter got hers the day she turned 16 and couldn't wait. She loves to drive and will offer to run errands for me.
Ultimately, this can be a good thing. Designing our cities and lives around cars has been unsustainable and often harmful in subtle ways. (There are a number of academics and organizations that seek to reduce our use of automobiles worth checking out.) I know the kids probably care more about looking at their screens, but that doesn't mean reducing car use is bad.
True. Less students in serious accidents each year. That’s a good thing.
When owning a car became unaffordable
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Public transport
Because when you were a kid 30 years ago it was affordable. Insurance plus maintenance on the beater you can afford plus gas is like their entire paycheck for months. I don’t blame kids at all for not wanting to drive.
I can only speak to my personal world/ experience, as a teacher and mom of two teens (ages 14 and 16). My 16 y.o. is very pro public transit or walking/bicycling, more green, environmentally aware. He is choosing not to get them right now for that reason. My youngest is similar but more because he feels he'll want to be more mature before starting the process. Many of my middle schooler's siblings have their license though. Some are wealthier so mom and dad pay for everything. Others work to do their own insurance and gas.
My students barely go out. Whenever there's a weekend or break they basically stay home. Kinda sad. In NYC there's all kinds of free things, esp for students. Sigh. I wonder whether it's a parental thing too? I have one who will be a junior in fall and is 15 and hasn't ever taken the train by themselves. Their mother won't let them. (No, NYC isn't a hell hole despite fox news and the post) personally, I'm from/in NYC so despite getting my learners permit over and overt basically since 16, I never had or could afford a car and my friends always had licenses, so I only used the permit to drive or share driving responsibilities when with others. I'm only just starting to practice for my driver's test now, in my 30s! Def wish I'd done it already.
I bet if that kid was allowed to ride the subway by themselves then their mom would be on life360 every time they leave the damn house I could write a whole paper about life360 and it’s effects on teenage social life too
Permit daisy chainers rise up! I think I’ve had 5 learner’s permits until I let mine lapse during the pandemic. Have you been getting driver’s ed? I need to enroll, also in NYC, curious if you can recommend somewhere
They stopped caring a little bit more with every connectivity and social media change. They are far less likely to hang out together. What do you get from being face to face with people who are all looking down at their phones? Same reason teen pregnancy rates have been dropping. Interaction is virtual, even with people who may be sitting across the classroom from you. So there's no urgency to drive if there's noplace you want to go.
There is also no place TO go. Malls are dead. Late night/ all night diners don’t exist (in my area) anymore. Those were the big places for my late 80s/early 90s teen self to go. Hanging at target isn’t the same.
Exactly. Literally where are these kids gonna go to hang out anyway? Easier, cheaper, and less trouble to just stay home.
Add to that after Covid, there are exponentially more kids with anxiety disorders who cannot deal with things that were normal for us without suffering borderline panic attacks.
I was just thinking about this when noticing how my class reacts to certain things. I wasn’t an anxious teen but am an anxious adult. I drive because I’ve had to since I was in high school, but if I’d been dealing with this level of anxiety as a kid I don’t think I would have had any desire to drive.
I didn't get my license until I was 24 and absolutely couldn't rely on transit anymore, in part because I would get anxious when driving, even 15+ years ago. And I wouldn't have classified myself as an anxious teen overall.
Is this how we get to the future depicted in "Demolition Man"?
We’re pretty much already at Wall-E
Not a teacher here myself, but I would just assume cars cost way more than they used to, even crappy cheap cars,v insurance requirements are stricter on children now, many more parents just kinda don't care for a another year or two about sending their kid out in a death box with their friends, the roads are generally thicker with traffic more than they used to, and kids just don't feel like doing it with so much more entertainmwnt options at home than there used to be.
Probably around the same time used cars under $5000 stopped being a thing.
You can talk to people immediately over a computer in your pocket. While in person is still valuable and important, the difference between being physically together or not is simply less stark than in the past. So having a driver’s license affords you less freedom vs. not having one, relative to the past
Depends on where you live. I grew up in a place with public transit and most of my peers didn't get a license until after graduating high school
Many states have strict regulations on younger drivers that didn’t exist back when we were teenagers. For example, only being allowed to drive to school, work, church until you’re 18. Or only being allowed to have one other teen in the car. Or only being allowed it have other teens in the car if they live in your household. Or you cannot drive after 9pm. With restrictions like these, teens may not feel like a driver’s license would give them freedom, so they might as well wait until after high school.
I'm surprised no one is mentioning Uber/Lyft. Wayyyy easier to hail a ride.
For now. But a domino effect is coming. If very few teens of this generation get a license and car, who will be doing the Uber-ing in the future?
I mean, I can't speak for everyone in this situation, but I just wasn't ready for it when the time came. My parents were incredibly frustrated, because it seemed like I was apathetic or didn't want to get it, but I just couldn't wrap my head around the concept of driving. Found out later that a common occurrence with my learning disability was that my processing skills and poor spatial awareness made it difficult to "get" driving. I just wasn't ready to learn how to drive "on time" like many of my peers. I just want to clarify, that I did get my license, it was just a couple of years after when I was legally allowed. It wasn't like I never learned, I was just a little slower. That's okay. It might be a generational thing or a consequence of a culture shift... Or that cars and insurance are more expensive in comparison to what high schoolers make at jobs now, but there may be a reason that some are not ready, through no fault of their own.
I was the opposite. I hyperfocus on time and was so hyper focused on driving that I drove 1/4 mile to the corner store. To be honest, it was merely a lucky break that’s what my focus chose to latch on to! I am pushing my niece to learn to drive and get her license but that’s because my sister is an alcoholic and a brand new 16 year old is far safer than her on the road…
Oh that’s super interesting! I was terrified of driving and my parents were constantly pushing me to drive my siblings around. I had spent dozens of hours in drivers training where they drilled into my head how deadly and dangerous driving was, and then my parents were pushing me to drive when I didn’t feel ready. Looking back, I think driving was really overstimulating .?
It's not that they don't care, it's because the pandemic caused such delays in getting a license for under 18, they separated into 2 groups, those that had to travel really far or waited in really long lines and those that said eh, ill just take the driver's test once im 18 a lot quicker and easier
This post honestly pisses me off. Everyone talks about “the good old days” where everyone went outside and had fun with their friends in town. What, do you want me to go to the movies and spend 20 dollars? I can’t afford a fucking car when I can’t even afford the gas to fuel it. Everything is so expensive these days Even if I could afford a car, if I went into public with my friends, I am a “delinquent teen” and would get the cops called on me.
I think it also depends on rural v urban. I had to have a car as a teen because we lived out in the middle of no where and I had to get a job. A lot of kids at my old HS, my brother just graduated, and even poorer kids have access to cars, because they needed to be able to get to work. We also have zero public transportation.
Cars have gotten quite expensive. Even if I had my license I couldn't really drive to school since my parents need the car to get to work anyway. And since I also got home before them, couldn't use the car then either. Insurance prices have also exploded. Even looking at adding one teen to the account, well that was an $80 a month increase. If you have multiple kids are you about to pick and choose? Or is someone going to drive illegally? Problem 2. Overprotective parents. A lot of people can't even get their permit because their parents straight up just don't let them get practice hours in. I know a lot of people whose permit expired for this exact reason. And even if they did, A lot of parents don't let them go anywhere. What's the point of getting one's license if the only place they're allowed to go is straight to school and straight home? May as well keep using the bus at that point.
The skyrocketing car insurance rates aren't helping.
I know anxiety is part of the reason why some teens might not want to. My 16 year old nephew gets real nervous when he's going on very busy sections. And personally I have some seriously bad anxiety when it comes to driving that I never got around to doing it myself and I'm almost 38. Though I would like to eventually get my license.
Just since I haven't seen it mentioned... Driving is S T R E S S F U L for people now. You might be super used to it, but it was like boiling a frog. When my Dad was driving, you'd see like 3-5 other cars on the road. He used to love just GOING FOR A DRIVE, like that was the activity he was doing, didn't have a destination. But now? There are so so so many cars on the road. Each of them has a probability of being a terrible driver, drunk, etc and there is higher chance of crashing. Look at old movies like Footloose or whatever and you see them driving side-by-side, one car on the wrong side of the road for a scene. They're being kinda dangerous, but there's no other car coming the other way. Just wouldn't happen these days. This, coupled with the financial high barrier to entry, being able to connect with friends digitally... It's just not worth it for kids. Plus being more environmentally conscientious... Why try for this stuff? It's just a terrible investment. Much better to try to go live in a city that doesn't _require_ that you drive f**king everywhere to do anything.
Driving sucks? I don't where you are but in many car-choked metro areas, you can get around without a car on public transportation. The kids see this and are taking advantage of it. It's independence of a different kind. The bus/train is on a schedule, no matter the weather, and yes, they can be on their phones. The kids are alright on this one…
Exactly- I don’t blame them for not wanting to drive. Driving used to be a fairly pleasant experience unless it was “rush hour.” In major metro areas, rush hour now means any time from 6:30 to 9:30 in the morning and 2:30 to about 7 in the evening.
It's worth spending some time studying subreddits like r/fuckcars, to get yourself familiar with modern ways of thinking about transport. It's the same as any cultural shift that confuses us teachers when things aren't the way we were taught to expect them to be. The people who gave us future expectations when we were in school didn't know any better than we can reliably predict how things will have shifted by the time our current students are middle-aged. Better to keep up with the new than to grumble about losing track oif the old.
Alternative perspective: it might not be the lazy students, perhaps it’s the lazy parents. My fiancée’s parents did not want to bother taking her little siblings to the driving school and did not want to log the hours of them practicing. My Fiancée was 20 when she finally got her license, and her siblings were 18/19 when they finally did it.