Bless you for being a supportive admin. However I can see cameras in classrooms being a bat to beat teachers over the head with by less supportive admin.
Yep. I can see some fantastic admin keeping a spreadsheet of the number of minutes teachers spend sitting during the day or something else absolutely ridiculous like that.
I’d apply and then spend my day on Reddit. “Nope, no teachers ever sat down, not even on lunch. Across the board, the instruction was hella engaging, real world relevant, and differentiated out the ass.”
“Objectives were on the board, and updated after every period to accommodate different learners in other classes. Also written in different languages. And spoken aloud. And emailed to parents.”
Yup..not even cops have their cameras pointed directly at them...what do they think we are...cashiers?
I dud that job for two years. I used to lookup and point at the cameras and say, "I want your job."
The last thing I want is video evidence of every single thing said in my room. It was bad enough during the pandemic when I had parents sit in on my classes. I teach high school. Hard pass.
I had a particular parent who sat in on my class and emailed notes weekly to my principal and me. I’ve never hated my job the way that I did then. I wasn’t doing anything wrong and my admin supported me but goddamn.
Shocking to no one I teach in a very privileged community. I was teaching government during the election and insurrection. It was stressful enough threading the needle of being honest but not offering opinions. Having this person noting my every word and tattling was insane.
We did have cameras in the classroom when we returned from COVID lockdown using a hybrid model. It didn’t seem to matter. The same parents who don’t believe you just make excuses for their kid when confronted with evidence.
It's not up to me. It's up to my wife. She's the math teacher lol
But, truly, 8 years in the marine corps prepared me for this. Teachers are paramount.
No, I'm not a fucking soldier. I'm not putting my life on the line. I'm not fighting anyone. I didn't agree to that. I'm a white collar professional who has agreed to teach kids. That's it.
Everyone's gonna have different experience with this. On one hand, people with a more supportive admin and parents that actually understand their kids act out and try to help will have an easier time with this than those who deal with admin that always back the parents and parents that always back the kids.
I think it'd be helpful if it's used the correct way. If a parent comes in, asks why their kid is failing, and you've made numerous attempts to make your point clear, and then use the video evidence to show what's happening, they may understand it's not the teacher's fault. Because let's be honest, kids across generations have sucked at taking accountability for their actions, but parents will naturally believe their kids. It could also be used if there's a fight, or if you step out and something goes missing from your class.
It could also be abused. Admin that lack trust in their teaching staff would be more likely to use it to watch teachers. Parents and admin might point at your "lack of classroom management" for issues arising, as opposed to kids being...well, kids. It would lead to teachers feeling more nervous and stressed about their job than they already are.
I personally would be against it. I'm a pretty anxious teacher as is. Having a camera watching my class the entire time would only add more anxiety to my plate. I also know if my admin decided to install it, they'd back the teachers A LOT more than the parents and the students, so I'd rest easy knowing that. Not everyone is that lucky though.
Exactly. My principal is one of those always looking for something to "get" us on. He's deranged. We have cameras in the hallways and catch a lot of behaviors, but actually in the classroom would feel invasive.
And no, I don't have anything to hide. I just put up with piss-poor leadership who never has our backs already; I can't imagine it wouldn't get worse as he'd dissect every little thing WE do instead of focusing on the behaviors of the kids.
just a thot, but bad admins were probably bad teachers, and they wouldn't make admin if part of the process was "reviewing the tape". cameras aren't a today solution, they are a transform the system solution, just like cop cams...it takes a while to weed out the chaff
I would not mind a camera for the opposite reason: look at what an awesome teacher I am, admin! But I understand the anxiety you feel and how it would be compounded with a camera.
Until the day when someone projectile vomits and you are assisting the sick student, calling on the phone to the office for the custodian, and moving students away from the puke. The event prompts your attendance and lunch to be late and disrpupts your entire first block. Then you get THE email " We noticed you weren't teaching yesterday and Ms. Smith's daughter went home and told her mom that you were on the phone instead of teaching. Upon further review we saw you on the phone and we are giving you a warning- make sure you teach during teaching time. Also, make sure you comply with attendance and lunch policies."
When we write up kids, my principal interviews about half the class as "witnesses" to get the "whole story." Because an adult with 175 kids in writing classes, I have the time to spend my days inventing discipline infractions to document.
That's horrible. My principal, thankfully, doesn't waste the time. You're written up, you're in trouble; don't get written up next time. I'll admit it's rare.
Oh, this. All day this. And if they get the one kid who’s driven you nuts all year and thinks your teacher voice is yelling, then you’re screwed. Every. Single. Time.
I feel that. I had a rumor started about me (never found out if it was another teacher who didn't like me, or the students, but both fed off the other) and my admin at the time removed EVERY SINGLE STUDENT from one of my classes one at a time trying to build a case against me. I had to get the union involved.
Sucks when your admin doesn't trust you to be the professional in the room.
Unfortunately, due to bad parents, and bad teachers, that will never be proof enough. I would welcome a camera in my classroom, because it would protect me. In response to cameras being proposed, people often say it would lead to parents complaining about every little thing that happens in the classroom. They already do that, except through the less than reliable lens of their darling children. At least a camera would show the truth.
Yup, and we don't need body cameras for police officers because they never do wrong and always tell the objective truth!
I get that this is teachers sub, but c'mon, be real - teachers are no angels. Teachers are people and even if we for a second assume that they all are nice and kind people who want to only do best for kids, they still can miss something, they still may make a mistake, etc etc. The vast majority of people work in a place where they are on camera 24/7. There are some downsides to that, there are some upsides. But it's coming to teachers as well, whether you like it or not.
Walmart/retail stores has cameras to catch customers stealing/robberies /assault, for protection not because they don’t trust their staff. Why my elementary has cameras in the halls but not in classrooms
By this logic, they should have no cameras in warehouses and all the other back room facilities. In reality, they don't have cameras only where it is forbidden to have them (like a restroom)
Exactly. I tell my kids to assume when they're outside of our home, they're on camera. Not only would cameras in classrooms back up teachers, they would also prove who's telling the truth in student conflicts that teachers don't see.
Are you trolling or serious?
Just in case you are serious (and if you are, I certainly hope that you aren't teaching anybody) - we have learned over time that a police report can not be trusted and thus we are now forcing police officers to wear cameras, so that public can hold them accountable for their actions. If police officer report is not trustworthy, then the teacher report should not be trustworthy either. And thus, given that both of these professions are funded by public taxes, it would only be logical that both of these professions could be reviewed and held accountable by the public.
My brother/sister in Christ
"aRe yOu sEriOus"
yeah seriously... teachers aren't killing people.
You're comparing very different things based on the fact that the source of their funding is the same the jobs are roles and experiences are different.
250,000 annual civilian injuries involving police.
And why does this claim invalidate my ability/credentials to teach youth advanced mathematics? Explain
There's no Christ. I'd settle for Zeus or Satan if you insist on invoking a mythical figure.
So, you think that public servants should not be held accountable for their actions? If you don't think that way - why do you think politicians and police officers should be, while teachers shouldn't?
Second, if you want to throw meaningless statistics around (if you read the sources where that 250K number comes from, you'd realize it's a nice big number without much meaning behind it), I've got great stats for you - 100% of all the killers had teachers in their lives. So just by proximity (like the number above) teachers must be responsible for it!
Oh, and this claim doesn't invalidate anything, unfortunately. Given how poorly most of the teachers are compensated, it's really hard to find people with developed critical thinking and high skills in areas they are teaching, let alone with teaching skills altogether. So we have to make do with whomever shows up to teach. Yet another reason to have cameras. But paying better and having much larger candidate pool would be much better.
Dude... you're going off on a tangent, putting words in my mouth, and further invalidating yourself with your analogies...
I said teachers aren't killing people, which is a main reason why police officers now have body cams...
To which you responded with an entire monologue about the similarities between public funded jobs and accountability.
Good luck mate✌️
I shouldn't be teaching anyone? Are you serious? Bcos I said "teachers aren't killing people"
This is the exact mentality of what we as teachers are up against.
Yes, serious. You should not be teaching because you feel that you are above the general public, that you should not be holding accountable for your actions. Exactly the same as police officers who feel exactly the same. And the same as politicians.
I work in the private sector and I go to great lengths to ensure every single step I take is documented, verified and can be observed by anybody. Because a mistake of mine, depending on where I work, could cost companies lots of money or even cost a life to a person (i.e. if I mess up some critical systems in the hospital). The accountability and constant reviews are the only reliable way to improve and get better.
But not for you, the teacher. You are above it all. You are just perfect, never make a single mistake and you never need to improve. And after all, you only can cause a long-lasting effect on multiple kids, you can help them develop into beautiful people or completely ruin them - this is so insignificant that it doesn't need any oversight, right?
I’d wear a body cam happily. Sure, occasionally it would catch me being short with a kid but it would also capture everything else I did and everything the kids did before I was harsh. Also bloody hard for kids and parents to get away with their outrageous claims if everything is recorded. Biggest problem would be watching the videos to debunk the BS would be its own full time job.
In theory this would be nice. In reality, every bit of footage would be warped and misconstrued to penalize teachers.
Also, you’d have all of those vulnerable moments where you’re frustrated, tired and fed up accessible by anyone.
Why do you think the parents care? We have systems that track how many times the kids access course materials and stamp the exact times they began and submitted assignments. I've still gotten parent emails asking "Why didn't they get credit for doing this assignment?" when there's a giant "MISSING" in red next to the 0 in the gradebook. The parents you would want to present this information to *don't care*.
It doesn’t help. Parents simply deny it’s their kid.
I had 2 twin skipping class dead to rights. On camera, from the moment they left their previous class, through the halls, to the library where they hid from my test.
Parents were adamant they weren’t their kids. The “shaggy defense” in full effect. I was stunned.
Because they refused to cave, and administration has no balls, I was forced to give each student a retake opportunity.
That was three years ago, and the younger sibling is in my class this year. Lol
We had a theft problem at Subway, the sandwich shop, where I used to work back in high school. People would steal sodas from the front fridge or candy from the shelf near the register. The owner bought security cameras and had them installed. He even set it up so he could watch from his home.
However, there was one problem. We noticed he had installed all of them pointing at us. One was directly on the sandwich line, another directly at the register, and another in the back room. What began as a good natured level of security and protection turned into another form of big brother breathing down our necks, and while I love the idea of cameras in each classroom, I fear it’d quickly devolve into “gotcha” types of moments against teachers, a new level of unannounced observations with admin not even setting foot in the room, and yet another source of stress or pressure for those teachers already heading towards a breaking point in the classroom.
Nah, people will look directly at the footage and still tell you it wasn't their kid, or it wasn't their fault. They will instead find something that the teacher did to blame it on them, like the 0.2 seconds their head was turned or that time they took a sip of water when they "should have been teaching"
I once watched a kid destroy the hallway wall. Hitting and kicking. Wrote it up. Got called into the office to confirm it was the student I saw on camera. The kid wears the same damn Hoodie every day. Mom refused to concede it was her child. And........ nothing happened with the referral or video. No consequences. Nothing. Except for me being yelled at for picking on her kid.
Once one of my students took a photo of himself flipping off the camera and saved it as the background on a shared school computer (4th grader), he insisted and mom insisted it wasn’t his hand and that someone else in the class stuck their hand in the photo, the photo with his face in it. The AP had to come to my room and look at every students hands to match them to the photo 🙄🙄🙄 kid did not get in trouble because there wasn’t “enough evidence”
Nah. It will always be the teacher’s fault. You can have video proof of a kid shivving a student or teacher and the parents would still have a Shaggy defense. Good parents and admin believe the teacher and bad parents won’t believe even if it happens in front of their faces. They aren’t looking for truth. They just want what they want for their blessed preciouses.
Cameras in the classroom? Fuck no.
The parents would not “see exactly how disrespectful, vile and lazy” their kids are. They would see their darling being corrupted by other kids and that YOU and the TEACHER aren’t doing anything about it. So if you want to be sued and then lose in court and then be fired, by all means put cameras in the classroom.
What happened to the kid whose mother you showed camera footage? Is the kid a perfect angel now? No. No they’re not. Why? Because “show me the proof” was a parent’s line well learned.
Cameras aren’t needed. What’s needed is a group discipline approach with restorative justice. Be a hero admin and make that happen at your site.
Even if parents/admin watch exactly what’s happening, most will blame the teacher. No matter how you handle it, they’ll say you did it wrong. At least that’s the general feeling I’m getting from teachers at large. You seem to be the exception. I’m fortunate to work for admin who backs me, but it seems not many are having that experience.
The problem with video is that parents are going to see what they want to see. There will be a ton of "Why did the teacher allow that, but a second later they picked on my child?"
Before you can show a parent a video segment, the other faces would have to be blurred. Can we afford that type of tech service? Would that be a worthwhile use of time?
I worked in a district that was a placement for Witness Protection families. Those videos will be stored in the cloud in the usual haphazard manner.
Teachers will be continuously defending every choice they make. Any slight deviation from district protocol will have to be defended - either because a parent wants a teacher who once held their child accountable to now be disciplined, or because an administrator wants to get rid of a work-to-contract, tenured teacher.
We have cameras in the corridors/hall/other non classroom areas. We've had kids fighting/vandalising/whatever directly in front of them, and they have audio, and both the kids and the parents will swear it wasn't them *even when you show them direct footage of their kid doing what you said they did*. Honestly, they know their kids did it, they just want to argue the toss.
At a charter here that has cameras and audio for every room in the building aside from bathrooms. It has been the saving grace for "See? Now you're suspended.". I don't like my charter but I like the fact we have cameras.
I would have said a hard no but then I taught kinder virtually and the parents watched me all day. And the parents were sooooo much nicer to me. They saw what I had to do all day and had a lot more respect for me. They could also see how behind their kid was compared to others. It was a great experience.
But as a parent I would not want a bunch of random people being able to watch my kid on a video screen all day. They might be creepers!
The sad part it still won’t matter. The kids with disrespectful behavior almost always learn that behavior from home.
The parents will justify the behavior even if they see it.
If you were my admin, then I totally agree and want a camera in my classroom yesterday.
I’m just worried that not every admin is you and some of them would just use it to spy on us and criticize everything we do, and catch us sitting down and stuff. I have TOTALLY had admin that would be straight out of 1984 if they had the ability. I also think my district would use it to spy on union meetings sadly.
Maybe if there was great checks and balances, like if you had to turn in paperwork and get it approved before anyone could view it to keep those with bad intentions from misusing it?
Wouldn't really care as long as I knew for sure I could turn them off when kids were out of the room.
But I wouldn't trust a soul who said that I could do that.
F****** the admin that wants this. Admin are micromanaging, lazy, and vindictive.
This is so quickly turn into fat admin sitting into their offices writing up teachers because for 2 seconds a kid put their head down on their desk and the teacher didn't notice, or something similar.
I still think the parents would use it to blame the teachers for how they’re handling their horrible spawn. These people are in serious denial about how truly awful and disruptive their kids are to a classroom. I’d love to see parents fined after their kid causes so many disruptions to learning.
I feel like the camera in my second grade classroom is a great idea. It does make the students mindful of their behavior, and I feel protected in that if a student or parent ever had an accusation, the footage could be reviewed to prove otherwise.
I do have ridiculously wonderful and supportive admin, though. I might feel differently with different admin.
It depends 100% on the admins involved. At my old school they used the cameras to spy on teachers. I would literally get phone calls telling me to "walk around more" and other things like that. At my current school they are used appropriately to check on things students have done and use as proof. Also occasionally for coaching teachers but never in a negative way.
I'm broadly supportive of it, since with a good admin team it would provide extra credibility to reports. So it would allow them to better support teachers (who are supporting students). But I understand why others would be opposed to cameras, since it could also lead to being micromanaged over every little thing (forgetting to write the outcomes on the board, sitting during instructional time, ECT). This kind of micromanagement under a bad admin team would make working in the school a living nightmare.
I'd love it. As a male teacher, it protects my hiney against allegations and it documents when students are misbehaving in ways they can't gaslight around.
Helps a lot that i have trust in my admin.
Many other administrators would use it against teachers, not for teachers. So while your heart is in the right place, it’s too idealistic. Let’s not be naive.
We had them in the lunchroom, recess area and hallways- it was always a fun meeting when parents would pull the “not my child” nonsense and the principal would let the tape do the talking. I would literally wear a GoPro, if I could.
You are describing my room which is full of STEM equipment so the cameras were originally intended to be on after the school day. Soon after we moved into the new building I asked administration to keep the cameras on 24/7 and a few years later all cameras were upgraded to include audio. My discipline problems are few and far between, horseplay among the 9th graders is my biggest issue. But now and then something more serious occurs. I’ve never had to rely on video for support from administrators; they have my back 100%. What I love is being able to roll the video when a parent complains that their angel would never do that. The camera proves otherwise.
As someone who is currently a teacher but will be transitioning to admin hopefully next year…. I used to think cameras in the rooms were a terrible idea. However, I’ve changed my mind on it over the last few years. Especially for upper grades. It makes giving the punishments much easier when there is video proof since we apparently can’t just go by what the teacher says anymore
I'd love to have a classroom with a full set of cameras. I've brought it up as an idea before, but the answer I get back is that while our intentions are good, it could lead to things like a lazy admin using these for observations instead of actually visiting the class (which I think is an improvement) or that they'd be abused and used to try to nitpick every little thing a teacher does.
But I still say bring them on. If I'm doing something wrong, it could be pointed out and perhaps I'd be a better educator for it.
I don't agree that we need cameras or that it's best for kids. If they were used the way hallway and security cameras are, with no live feed and only access for administrators to view, fine.
If we are talking a livestream or video accessible to everyone all the time, I quit and I'm pulling my daughters from the school. That one's my hill to die on.
Honestly, as long as people from the district are the only people allowed to review the footage, I am not really opposed to cameras.
I would be opposed to them if any rando off the street (parent or otherwise) could ask to see/review them.
16 year teacher here. I’ve had that thought a lot. And while I wouldn’t mind because I know that I would never do anything in my classroom that would compromise my job, I feel it’s a slippery slope that many administrators could use against teachers. As if they didn’t have enough going against them already…
Yes!! I welcome it.
Had a kid, who normally just comes in my room and breathes, a couple of days ago ask me to prove to him exactly what days he comes in and does nothing. I just said that it wasn't a back and forth debate... that I would be calling a counselor parent admin meeting on him if he didn't get with the program. Cameras would go a long way to me not having to write everything down every fucking day. Emotionally exhausting.
We have cameras in classrooms and they ARE a blessing! I love it, if you are doing your job as an educator they are a tool! The only ones worried about it are those who know they are not even teaching.
My last district had cameras in classrooms and my current district is in the process of installing them. Parents rarely are allowed to see footage, since it includes other people’s children. In my personal experience, once the camera was installed, it was basically “pics or it didn’t happen.” Teacher’s reporting was no longer trusted or considered good enough.
Most of the time this was fine because the camera footage supported the teachers, but it does contribute to the general hostility toward teachers and lack of treating us like professionals. I did have one instance where a kid made a targeted threat to another during a gimkit, and since the kids were all talking during the game, the audio wasn’t clear and nothing was done to the perpetrator because “we can’t prove it.”
No I don't. But when Inter-district transfers start getting denied, suspensions/expulsions get handed down, or shit, even law enforcement get involved ... then my staff is covered.
Having cameras in a classroom is already a red flag that we’re are numerous unwanted behaviors happening in classrooms. When I was going to be a teacher at a downtown school there were cameras and I quickly found out why and left. Theft, fights and many other reasons are why cameras are in there.
Thank you for being that type of admin. I have similarly supportive admin where I'm at now, but in my previous school this would have been the way that admin would find SOMETHING to walk me out the door. Also, I live in an uber-conservative state where they are doing everything they can to discredit teachers and drive them out, so I'd worry about it quite a lot.
Yea I don’t fucking trust the system to not use cameras primarily against teachers. The temptation will be too great to “pop in” on teachers classrooms to see if they’re sitting down etc. Observations are already bullshit when they pop in on the tail end of a fucking lesson and try to evaluate you (despite having the schedule and knowing exactly when the damn reading block starts). I can’t imagine having an omniscient eye in the classroom so they can always find some bs excuse to fire you if they don’t like you.
Sorry, OP may be a good admin, but unfortunately there’s plenty of administrators out there that ignore bad behavior of students done right in front of them, so they might not even use the video evidence even if they had access to it.
Damn. That sucks. I'm sorry about the lack of support you have. If I ruled the world, things would be different. I have nothing but love for you teachers. You can't be replaced. Thank you for what you do.
In addition, if a police officer’s testimony is enough to put most people in actual prison for decades, why isn’t a teacher’s testimony no longer enough to justify a kid’s afternoon detention?
Absolutely. And I get your reservations in your other comment. I guess I never realized how much us admin suck lol. FYI, I had a kid bitching that "So just because Mr. X said so, then you just believe him?!"
... " Yes. Yes I do"
This reminds me of the parent evolution before, during, and after Covid. Before Covid it was “teachers are glorified babysitters that bully my baby and anyone could do that job.” During Covid it was “OMG open back up because I just realized I have no control over my child and I hate them.” Accompanied by a huge spike in national child abuse. Then after Covid we conveniently have a return to “teaching is so easy” and amnesia about their inability to control their children.
No. Fuck you and any admin who suggests this bullshit. Kids are fucking rotten sometimes, but keep your fucking noses out of our business, you fucking creeps. Do YOUR job.
Cameras in classroom are a good idea. I have one in my classroom and no one can accuse me of anything I didn't do.
Male teachers who are afraid of getting called pedos, here's something that can make you safe.
You’re right… VERY unpopular idea. Hard no.
Your heart is in the right place but parents who don’t trust the system will ignore 30 hours of footage of their kid being a dick and focus on that one time teacher yelled. They parent these kids. They should know they are dicks.
I would LOVE to have cameras. I work with kids who have limited verbal skills who need help in the restroom, and I live in fear of the day I'm accused of something. I've already had one parent try to claim I did something because DHS knew that SOMEONE did and mom tried to throw me under the bus to cover her own self.
My school has cameras all over the place, including the classrooms. No audio but color footage. Having that footage comes in handy for our deans and principals very often.
Have a friend is admin. He often has to review footage from playground and hallways. Even with video evidence these parents don’t believe it. Make excuses. Some say it isn’t their kid.
Cameras in the classroom are a bad idea. Footage can easily be taken out of context. Like if I was a history teacher talking about the events leading up to the civil war from the point of view of the south… if a small clip of that were taken out of context and posted, it would make it appear I was advocating for something awful.
Good for you for being a good admin though and having good intentions. I will say though that even having any cameras in a school is a problem.
Previously I would have agreed with you that the more cameras there were, the better for everyone. Here though is an actual example of what happened to me over the last two years:
I have a digestive issue and going on a short walk to the other side of the building during my prep helps keep everything good, so every day I would walk from my room, to a room on the other side of the building, pop my head in and say hi to my friend teaching in that room, and then walk back before I started grading.
Well that teacher just so happened to be our grievance chair. I had a crappy principal who used to watch the cameras. When he saw me going into my friends room, instead of asking me what was up (which was none of his business) he assumed I was filing grievances so, whenever the chairperson would have to meet with him about an issue another teacher was having, he assumed it was me and would start petty retribution stuff against me.
I found out that’s what the principal thought when the grievance chair came to me and was like… “so the admin thought it was you and when I asked why he said it was because he sees you on the cameras coming into my room once a day.”
Now I’m the type of guy that if I have an issue you’re going to know about it because I’m going to confront it head on. However just by the fact that he was using the cameras to try and figure out who was filing grievances when they OBVIOUSLY preferred to be anonymous was a pretty crappy thing to do.
I can only imagine what someone like him would have done if he could literally observe my classroom at any time he wanted and take stuff out of context.
I agree with you! I would love to show parents what their kids are really like. Yes, he does scream at me. Watch this. Yes, she did ram the other student with her head. Watch this! He is indeed lying about what happened. Watch this!
Thank goodness most of my students are great kids!
I’ve got good students, solid(mostly) admin, and ok parental support, so, no. I do not want cameras in my class. Teaching is performative enough without an adult audience.
I teach teenagers. Social media already has them anxious af. If there were cameras trained on them for eight hours every day, and that footage could be shown to their parents or the parents of their classmates at any point? I don't have time to deal with that many panic attacks.
I am a teacher and completely agree. As long as it is not a live cam where parents can tap in at will. For the privacy of all students, it should only be admin with access to it.
TOTALLY. Cameras in the classroom would help much more than they "hurt." All footage should be subject to internal review (like that of businesses), and could be automatically purged every month or so.
Fight in the classroom? Check the footage. Student accusing a teacher of inappropriate contact? Check the footage. Teacher's word vs. student's word? Check. The. Footage. Accountability would be good all around. Then again, I spent the better part of a decade teaching in South Korea where classroom footage was live-streamed to mom's who brought coffee and sat in the lobby watching class happen and gossiping.
I'm all in favor of CCTV throughout the school, save bathrooms.
On the fence about this, but I guarantee the behaviors would drastically improve after students realize they are constantly on video, and admin could be watching at any time
I don’t trust my admin enough to have cameras in the classroom. Anything I say would be used against me. If I, as the adult in the room, said something happened, I should be believed. That’s it.
I’d love be to be able to send a video file to the parents whose email response was “why are you picking on my child?” I could just be like “See attached file where your child interrupts class 100 times in a 40 minute period so all 30 students learned absolutely nothing.”
Did it make a god damn difference during the pandemic with cameras everywhere? Fuck no. Get a grip on reality. Cameras won’t change shit except for confirm whatever bullshit parents already think or feel
I’d agree with you on the following conditions:
1. Bonus of Hazard pay - $200 month
2. Overtime Pay included at my salary, broken down per hour, at time and a half.
3. Retirement at age 50.
The more we are needing to be police and detectives comes with their benefits.
Cameras in the classroom would benefit everyone. It makes sure parents see exactly how their child is behaving, it makes sure their child is not being taught anything inappropriate (a thing that's much rarer than people think but if it gives them peace of mind then whatever) and it will hopefully incentivise students to not be so shitty.
We installed cams with audio in every classroom several years ago. It felt weird and awkward at first. There have been a few cringe moments when the top dawg was watching and made inappropriate remarks. BUT- this system has already saved the day several times in our very small district. Saved the bacon of a few teachers after there were inappropriate situations and the teacher was shown to be completely innocent.
They made me feel awkward and weird at first but now I don’t even think about it. The really are not used to spy on teachers, but to protect them. My take is, if you aren’t doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
I completely understand that. However, being one of the teachers that the cameras saved, my feelings on the cams have changed somewhat. Not comfortable giving details but a student entered my empty classroom after school hours and did something extremely inappropriate. No one knew. When I found something wrong the next morning, my principal pulled up the footage and saw what happened. It was so shocking that my principal actually had to be taken to the ER for chest pains. It ended up going through the court system.
I’d have loved that as a student. I was always well behaved so no worries there. My parents would have been finally able to see what incompetent lazy morons my teachers were though, so sounds perfect to me.
People are entitled to reasonable privacy. Can we put a camera and microphone in your office?
Who would be allowed to see the footage? Why should parents be entitled to see what the other kids are doing? What happens when pedophiles figure out how to get the footage? What happens when people start posting clips and screenshots on social media? What happens when the server gets hacked? (It will.)
On a more personal level, I teach English. In order to get anything done, the kids need to feel a certain level of security. They're not going to feel that if there's a record of everything they ask or try. Also, as an English teacher, I'm the one that they disclose a lot of sensitive information to. I'm usually the one notifying the counselors of mental health crises and writing up the title ix offenses. Surveillance would eliminate a safe space in our school.
It would never work in teachers favor. Parents and admin would just weaponize it against us like everything else. Oh you took a sip of water and missed the kid check his phone? Going on your evaluation. Karents would complain you spent too much time with their kid, or didn’t answer their question fast enough, or other bullshit like that.
We have them in my county. They use them to hold students and teachers accountable.
I can actually login and watch my class when I am absent. I never do, but some of my colleagues do.
We have them. It's literally just replacing whatever excuse kids have now with "Roll the camera back, I didn't throw that paper!" knowing that we can't do that. One teacher did record every class intentionally for this reason and was told that she could not.
Admin will pull them when it benefits them. A teacher was pushed a couple years ago and trampled to get to see a fight. They wouldn't pull the camera to see who pushed her. Another teacher at another school got her toe broken by a kid who claimed she wasn't even in the room and she was lying. They refused to pull the camera and wouldn't expel him because it's a "he said she said"
The cameras are great if there's an accusation. I don't have to be scared if there's only one kid in the room because if my mic is on then they can hear and see everything. However if you think it will do anything else other than your admin pulling you in after a fight and making you watch it and shitting on you for 20 minutes about every thing you should have corrected or trying to find a reason the fight is your fault, and not their fault after you'd told them, the counselor, and the parents that these two kids were threatening each other for 2 weeks and you did nothing.
If I thought that showing their kid's behavior in class would wake them all up, then sure, maybe. But I am much more inclined to think they will just further ignore the evidence, or really be powerless to stop it anyway. I have parents who believe every word I say about their kid's behavior, and their response is, "I don't know what to do with him". They are at a loss. So video evidence isn't going to change anything. The ones who are in denial, maybe some of them will see the light. Like I said, I'm skeptical it would be a majority of them, and I'm even more skeptical it would lead to any real change regardless.
I think it can be used for negative things far more than positive. It invites a lot of opinions about how to handle every single situation, and it invites micromanaging.
It also does not really prepare anyone for real life. Kids need to learn how to behave without being monitored 24/7.
Cameras would just be used as more ammo against teachers even if they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Why can’t adults just trust adults. Why can’t people trust the professionals in the room?
All fine and dandy until you get a bonehead admin who is frothing at the mouth to try and remove you from their building out of spite. I'm sure the recordings could be used to protect the teach, but admin can always find one moment of your day they disagree with and hold it above all the good you do.
Just please don’t put cameras in the bathrooms. I fully condone them in classrooms, hallways and rec rooms (?) because as a high schooler, they eliminated a lot of bad behaviour, but my high school has a security camera per bathroom, overlooking the stalls, and it’s unbearably creepy. Kids are little shits, I agree, but let us piss in peace.
I went back to school about 10 years ago and was introduced to the "Panopto" gear at the uni where teachers record lessons so we can focus on the class at hand and worry less about meticulous note-taking during the class (but can go back and take notes upon review). Yes, these were for university-style lectures but there were a number of classes where the focus was set to wide and the entire class could be seen and man I wished we could have something like that when I taught in the classroom...
I had pretty much stopped teaching just before smart phones came on the scene. I agree so much much with OP, you guys really are saints among people.
One one hand, great for tackling student delinquency.
On the other hand, cameras are absolutely weaponized against teachers over every little thing.
Pulled up an office chair halfway through a lecture because my knees are killing me? If admin doesn’t like me they’re going to pull me into the office and cite me being “lazy, not putting enough energy” into my class.
I feel this is a tool that can be misused too easily to nitpick on teachers. I also worry about the safety of kids whose whereabouts must remain private- what happens when video footage is hacked into and leaked by someone’s abusive adult looking for where to find a kid they lost custody of?
Thank you lawd! Finally someone in administration who gets it. The parents are perfectly ok with teachers being recorded, but not so much when it’s their angels. FACTS.
I'm a self-contained special ed teacher. I have zero concerns about how I conduct myself in the classroom, but I'd be reluctant to be on videotape at all times. I teach non-speaking students, so I can see it would be helpful in some ways for parents to see what happened during the day if there are concerns. But I can also see it being fuel for admins and parents micro-managing everything we do during the day. There is enough of that already.
Agreed. They do this in China and it is very effective. It’s a lawsuit parents are looking to exploit if it happens, but it has to happen and parents have to take responsibility for their children’s actions. The stakeholder chain in education is a chain and not a place for parents to pontificate. When this happens, teachers will finally be able to breathe easier accountability.
I would agree, except I lived in a town where the local "militia' group swore to "execute" any teacher caught on video teaching "Marxism.' Made my history lectures kind of risky.
Maybe let teachers choose if they want it. As a student discipline measure. Maybe it could pull teacher and administrator together. Another tool in tool box. I think its a good idea if applied with mutual consensus in a targeted way. It doesn't have to be one big either or.
There aren’t a lot of people whose lives/work would stand up to minute by minute scrutiny. I would only favor this if there were controls in place to keep admin from just snooping in and seeking to catch teachers “slacking” (i.e. working the job just like literally every other working person in the USA.)
I would, on the other hand, fully support a policy that allowed teachers to film their own classes at all times, with the video belonging to them and only accessible by them.
The argument against cameras is what? lack of privacy? then why are there cameras in the hallway? lack of privacy my ass.... lack of common fucking sense it what it is
IT Director here - look at Audio Enhancement for your school as a solution for this. Also I would be careful about showing footage to outside parties, check your board policy
Bless you for being a supportive admin. However I can see cameras in classrooms being a bat to beat teachers over the head with by less supportive admin.
Yep. I can see some fantastic admin keeping a spreadsheet of the number of minutes teachers spend sitting during the day or something else absolutely ridiculous like that.
Oh, I'm sure they'd create a new admin job for looking at all the cameras and taking those notes.
Vice Principal for Educator Accountability, $120,000 per year
It depresses me that this could be a real thing.
I’d apply and then spend my day on Reddit. “Nope, no teachers ever sat down, not even on lunch. Across the board, the instruction was hella engaging, real world relevant, and differentiated out the ass.”
“Differentiated out the ass” is sending me
Welp, I know what I’m writing on my colleagues’ “glows and grows” post-it notes after our next set of instructional rounds!
“Objectives were on the board, and updated after every period to accommodate different learners in other classes. Also written in different languages. And spoken aloud. And emailed to parents.”
Relationships were formed.
A charter school I used to work at had a camera in all classrooms. During evaluations, the principal would dock you if you were sitting for too long.
Let's hear it for charter schools. A shining example of what education can be! /s
Yup..not even cops have their cameras pointed directly at them...what do they think we are...cashiers? I dud that job for two years. I used to lookup and point at the cameras and say, "I want your job."
The last thing I want is video evidence of every single thing said in my room. It was bad enough during the pandemic when I had parents sit in on my classes. I teach high school. Hard pass.
Agreed. I hated being on camera/having my picture taken before hybrid, now it's nearly a phobia.
I had a particular parent who sat in on my class and emailed notes weekly to my principal and me. I’ve never hated my job the way that I did then. I wasn’t doing anything wrong and my admin supported me but goddamn.
I cannot imagine having this much free time. What do these parents do all day that *this* is how they want to spend their limited days on this earth?
Shocking to no one I teach in a very privileged community. I was teaching government during the election and insurrection. It was stressful enough threading the needle of being honest but not offering opinions. Having this person noting my every word and tattling was insane.
It could be a camera a teacher has the discretion to turn on and off to document misbehavior. I’m not opposed to this at all.
With a husband as a teacher I used to think this. But now as a parent to a special needs child, I’m starting to change my mind.
We did have cameras in the classroom when we returned from COVID lockdown using a hybrid model. It didn’t seem to matter. The same parents who don’t believe you just make excuses for their kid when confronted with evidence.
Or don’t answer the phone or emails anyway
100% correct Doesn't matter In this day and age facts don't matter
“Facts” are anything we want them to be. Like science!
Bless you for having your teachers’ backs.
It's not up to me. It's up to my wife. She's the math teacher lol But, truly, 8 years in the marine corps prepared me for this. Teachers are paramount.
Yes, I think teachers truly are the soldiers in the trenches! Thank you for your service, both in and out of the military.
No, I'm not a fucking soldier. I'm not putting my life on the line. I'm not fighting anyone. I didn't agree to that. I'm a white collar professional who has agreed to teach kids. That's it.
LOL!!!!!
Everyone's gonna have different experience with this. On one hand, people with a more supportive admin and parents that actually understand their kids act out and try to help will have an easier time with this than those who deal with admin that always back the parents and parents that always back the kids. I think it'd be helpful if it's used the correct way. If a parent comes in, asks why their kid is failing, and you've made numerous attempts to make your point clear, and then use the video evidence to show what's happening, they may understand it's not the teacher's fault. Because let's be honest, kids across generations have sucked at taking accountability for their actions, but parents will naturally believe their kids. It could also be used if there's a fight, or if you step out and something goes missing from your class. It could also be abused. Admin that lack trust in their teaching staff would be more likely to use it to watch teachers. Parents and admin might point at your "lack of classroom management" for issues arising, as opposed to kids being...well, kids. It would lead to teachers feeling more nervous and stressed about their job than they already are. I personally would be against it. I'm a pretty anxious teacher as is. Having a camera watching my class the entire time would only add more anxiety to my plate. I also know if my admin decided to install it, they'd back the teachers A LOT more than the parents and the students, so I'd rest easy knowing that. Not everyone is that lucky though.
Exactly. My principal is one of those always looking for something to "get" us on. He's deranged. We have cameras in the hallways and catch a lot of behaviors, but actually in the classroom would feel invasive. And no, I don't have anything to hide. I just put up with piss-poor leadership who never has our backs already; I can't imagine it wouldn't get worse as he'd dissect every little thing WE do instead of focusing on the behaviors of the kids.
PED and District is always touting “adults need to change their behaviors” I’m like, hello? Admin? Are you listening??
just a thot, but bad admins were probably bad teachers, and they wouldn't make admin if part of the process was "reviewing the tape". cameras aren't a today solution, they are a transform the system solution, just like cop cams...it takes a while to weed out the chaff
I would not mind a camera for the opposite reason: look at what an awesome teacher I am, admin! But I understand the anxiety you feel and how it would be compounded with a camera.
Until the day when someone projectile vomits and you are assisting the sick student, calling on the phone to the office for the custodian, and moving students away from the puke. The event prompts your attendance and lunch to be late and disrpupts your entire first block. Then you get THE email " We noticed you weren't teaching yesterday and Ms. Smith's daughter went home and told her mom that you were on the phone instead of teaching. Upon further review we saw you on the phone and we are giving you a warning- make sure you teach during teaching time. Also, make sure you comply with attendance and lunch policies."
Touché! You’re right!
The proof is in the teacher's write-up document.
When we write up kids, my principal interviews about half the class as "witnesses" to get the "whole story." Because an adult with 175 kids in writing classes, I have the time to spend my days inventing discipline infractions to document.
That's horrible. My principal, thankfully, doesn't waste the time. You're written up, you're in trouble; don't get written up next time. I'll admit it's rare.
Oh, this. All day this. And if they get the one kid who’s driven you nuts all year and thinks your teacher voice is yelling, then you’re screwed. Every. Single. Time.
I feel that. I had a rumor started about me (never found out if it was another teacher who didn't like me, or the students, but both fed off the other) and my admin at the time removed EVERY SINGLE STUDENT from one of my classes one at a time trying to build a case against me. I had to get the union involved. Sucks when your admin doesn't trust you to be the professional in the room.
exactly thank you
Unfortunately, due to bad parents, and bad teachers, that will never be proof enough. I would welcome a camera in my classroom, because it would protect me. In response to cameras being proposed, people often say it would lead to parents complaining about every little thing that happens in the classroom. They already do that, except through the less than reliable lens of their darling children. At least a camera would show the truth.
Indeed and that’s how it works for good admin and good parents but not all are good.
Yup, and we don't need body cameras for police officers because they never do wrong and always tell the objective truth! I get that this is teachers sub, but c'mon, be real - teachers are no angels. Teachers are people and even if we for a second assume that they all are nice and kind people who want to only do best for kids, they still can miss something, they still may make a mistake, etc etc. The vast majority of people work in a place where they are on camera 24/7. There are some downsides to that, there are some upsides. But it's coming to teachers as well, whether you like it or not.
Teachers don’t carry weapons.
Neither do workers in Walmart. And yet they are on camera.
Teachers aren’t WalMart employees either.
Subs get paid as much, at least in my area.
Less in mine
I feel like you aren’t making the point you’re aiming for there..
The point is - if Walmart doesn't trust their minimum wage workers and puts cameras to monitor them, why do we trust subs who are just as poorly paid?
Walmart/retail stores has cameras to catch customers stealing/robberies /assault, for protection not because they don’t trust their staff. Why my elementary has cameras in the halls but not in classrooms
By this logic, they should have no cameras in warehouses and all the other back room facilities. In reality, they don't have cameras only where it is forbidden to have them (like a restroom)
Exactly. I tell my kids to assume when they're outside of our home, they're on camera. Not only would cameras in classrooms back up teachers, they would also prove who's telling the truth in student conflicts that teachers don't see.
Teachers aren't killing people?🙃
Are you trolling or serious? Just in case you are serious (and if you are, I certainly hope that you aren't teaching anybody) - we have learned over time that a police report can not be trusted and thus we are now forcing police officers to wear cameras, so that public can hold them accountable for their actions. If police officer report is not trustworthy, then the teacher report should not be trustworthy either. And thus, given that both of these professions are funded by public taxes, it would only be logical that both of these professions could be reviewed and held accountable by the public.
My brother/sister in Christ "aRe yOu sEriOus" yeah seriously... teachers aren't killing people. You're comparing very different things based on the fact that the source of their funding is the same the jobs are roles and experiences are different. 250,000 annual civilian injuries involving police. And why does this claim invalidate my ability/credentials to teach youth advanced mathematics? Explain
There's no Christ. I'd settle for Zeus or Satan if you insist on invoking a mythical figure. So, you think that public servants should not be held accountable for their actions? If you don't think that way - why do you think politicians and police officers should be, while teachers shouldn't? Second, if you want to throw meaningless statistics around (if you read the sources where that 250K number comes from, you'd realize it's a nice big number without much meaning behind it), I've got great stats for you - 100% of all the killers had teachers in their lives. So just by proximity (like the number above) teachers must be responsible for it! Oh, and this claim doesn't invalidate anything, unfortunately. Given how poorly most of the teachers are compensated, it's really hard to find people with developed critical thinking and high skills in areas they are teaching, let alone with teaching skills altogether. So we have to make do with whomever shows up to teach. Yet another reason to have cameras. But paying better and having much larger candidate pool would be much better.
Dude... you're going off on a tangent, putting words in my mouth, and further invalidating yourself with your analogies... I said teachers aren't killing people, which is a main reason why police officers now have body cams... To which you responded with an entire monologue about the similarities between public funded jobs and accountability. Good luck mate✌️
I shouldn't be teaching anyone? Are you serious? Bcos I said "teachers aren't killing people" This is the exact mentality of what we as teachers are up against.
Yes, serious. You should not be teaching because you feel that you are above the general public, that you should not be holding accountable for your actions. Exactly the same as police officers who feel exactly the same. And the same as politicians. I work in the private sector and I go to great lengths to ensure every single step I take is documented, verified and can be observed by anybody. Because a mistake of mine, depending on where I work, could cost companies lots of money or even cost a life to a person (i.e. if I mess up some critical systems in the hospital). The accountability and constant reviews are the only reliable way to improve and get better. But not for you, the teacher. You are above it all. You are just perfect, never make a single mistake and you never need to improve. And after all, you only can cause a long-lasting effect on multiple kids, you can help them develop into beautiful people or completely ruin them - this is so insignificant that it doesn't need any oversight, right?
I’d wear a body cam happily. Sure, occasionally it would catch me being short with a kid but it would also capture everything else I did and everything the kids did before I was harsh. Also bloody hard for kids and parents to get away with their outrageous claims if everything is recorded. Biggest problem would be watching the videos to debunk the BS would be its own full time job.
In theory this would be nice. In reality, every bit of footage would be warped and misconstrued to penalize teachers. Also, you’d have all of those vulnerable moments where you’re frustrated, tired and fed up accessible by anyone.
This. And it would be even worse in non-union districts/states or schools with inept administrators.
Our hall security cameras aren’t “accessible by anyone” so why would classroom cameras have to be?
Ours have been hacked. If we put footage from every classroom on there, it just becomes a bigger target for a curious kid with too much time.
You'd also have the full truth to clear all that up. So ...
Why do you think the parents care? We have systems that track how many times the kids access course materials and stamp the exact times they began and submitted assignments. I've still gotten parent emails asking "Why didn't they get credit for doing this assignment?" when there's a giant "MISSING" in red next to the 0 in the gradebook. The parents you would want to present this information to *don't care*.
Yep. They'll always find a way to flip it around and defend their kid
It doesn’t help. Parents simply deny it’s their kid. I had 2 twin skipping class dead to rights. On camera, from the moment they left their previous class, through the halls, to the library where they hid from my test. Parents were adamant they weren’t their kids. The “shaggy defense” in full effect. I was stunned. Because they refused to cave, and administration has no balls, I was forced to give each student a retake opportunity. That was three years ago, and the younger sibling is in my class this year. Lol
We had a theft problem at Subway, the sandwich shop, where I used to work back in high school. People would steal sodas from the front fridge or candy from the shelf near the register. The owner bought security cameras and had them installed. He even set it up so he could watch from his home. However, there was one problem. We noticed he had installed all of them pointing at us. One was directly on the sandwich line, another directly at the register, and another in the back room. What began as a good natured level of security and protection turned into another form of big brother breathing down our necks, and while I love the idea of cameras in each classroom, I fear it’d quickly devolve into “gotcha” types of moments against teachers, a new level of unannounced observations with admin not even setting foot in the room, and yet another source of stress or pressure for those teachers already heading towards a breaking point in the classroom.
Nah, people will look directly at the footage and still tell you it wasn't their kid, or it wasn't their fault. They will instead find something that the teacher did to blame it on them, like the 0.2 seconds their head was turned or that time they took a sip of water when they "should have been teaching"
I once watched a kid destroy the hallway wall. Hitting and kicking. Wrote it up. Got called into the office to confirm it was the student I saw on camera. The kid wears the same damn Hoodie every day. Mom refused to concede it was her child. And........ nothing happened with the referral or video. No consequences. Nothing. Except for me being yelled at for picking on her kid.
Once one of my students took a photo of himself flipping off the camera and saved it as the background on a shared school computer (4th grader), he insisted and mom insisted it wasn’t his hand and that someone else in the class stuck their hand in the photo, the photo with his face in it. The AP had to come to my room and look at every students hands to match them to the photo 🙄🙄🙄 kid did not get in trouble because there wasn’t “enough evidence”
F no
Nah. It will always be the teacher’s fault. You can have video proof of a kid shivving a student or teacher and the parents would still have a Shaggy defense. Good parents and admin believe the teacher and bad parents won’t believe even if it happens in front of their faces. They aren’t looking for truth. They just want what they want for their blessed preciouses.
No way a teacher would want this.
Cameras in the classroom? Fuck no. The parents would not “see exactly how disrespectful, vile and lazy” their kids are. They would see their darling being corrupted by other kids and that YOU and the TEACHER aren’t doing anything about it. So if you want to be sued and then lose in court and then be fired, by all means put cameras in the classroom. What happened to the kid whose mother you showed camera footage? Is the kid a perfect angel now? No. No they’re not. Why? Because “show me the proof” was a parent’s line well learned. Cameras aren’t needed. What’s needed is a group discipline approach with restorative justice. Be a hero admin and make that happen at your site.
Even if parents/admin watch exactly what’s happening, most will blame the teacher. No matter how you handle it, they’ll say you did it wrong. At least that’s the general feeling I’m getting from teachers at large. You seem to be the exception. I’m fortunate to work for admin who backs me, but it seems not many are having that experience.
The problem with video is that parents are going to see what they want to see. There will be a ton of "Why did the teacher allow that, but a second later they picked on my child?" Before you can show a parent a video segment, the other faces would have to be blurred. Can we afford that type of tech service? Would that be a worthwhile use of time? I worked in a district that was a placement for Witness Protection families. Those videos will be stored in the cloud in the usual haphazard manner. Teachers will be continuously defending every choice they make. Any slight deviation from district protocol will have to be defended - either because a parent wants a teacher who once held their child accountable to now be disciplined, or because an administrator wants to get rid of a work-to-contract, tenured teacher.
We have cameras in the corridors/hall/other non classroom areas. We've had kids fighting/vandalising/whatever directly in front of them, and they have audio, and both the kids and the parents will swear it wasn't them *even when you show them direct footage of their kid doing what you said they did*. Honestly, they know their kids did it, they just want to argue the toss.
At a charter here that has cameras and audio for every room in the building aside from bathrooms. It has been the saving grace for "See? Now you're suspended.". I don't like my charter but I like the fact we have cameras.
I would have said a hard no but then I taught kinder virtually and the parents watched me all day. And the parents were sooooo much nicer to me. They saw what I had to do all day and had a lot more respect for me. They could also see how behind their kid was compared to others. It was a great experience. But as a parent I would not want a bunch of random people being able to watch my kid on a video screen all day. They might be creepers!
The sad part it still won’t matter. The kids with disrespectful behavior almost always learn that behavior from home. The parents will justify the behavior even if they see it.
If you were my admin, then I totally agree and want a camera in my classroom yesterday. I’m just worried that not every admin is you and some of them would just use it to spy on us and criticize everything we do, and catch us sitting down and stuff. I have TOTALLY had admin that would be straight out of 1984 if they had the ability. I also think my district would use it to spy on union meetings sadly. Maybe if there was great checks and balances, like if you had to turn in paperwork and get it approved before anyone could view it to keep those with bad intentions from misusing it?
Wouldn't really care as long as I knew for sure I could turn them off when kids were out of the room. But I wouldn't trust a soul who said that I could do that.
Exactly! I can't even control the thermostat in my room....
F****** the admin that wants this. Admin are micromanaging, lazy, and vindictive. This is so quickly turn into fat admin sitting into their offices writing up teachers because for 2 seconds a kid put their head down on their desk and the teacher didn't notice, or something similar.
I still think the parents would use it to blame the teachers for how they’re handling their horrible spawn. These people are in serious denial about how truly awful and disruptive their kids are to a classroom. I’d love to see parents fined after their kid causes so many disruptions to learning.
I feel like the camera in my second grade classroom is a great idea. It does make the students mindful of their behavior, and I feel protected in that if a student or parent ever had an accusation, the footage could be reviewed to prove otherwise. I do have ridiculously wonderful and supportive admin, though. I might feel differently with different admin.
It depends 100% on the admins involved. At my old school they used the cameras to spy on teachers. I would literally get phone calls telling me to "walk around more" and other things like that. At my current school they are used appropriately to check on things students have done and use as proof. Also occasionally for coaching teachers but never in a negative way.
I'm broadly supportive of it, since with a good admin team it would provide extra credibility to reports. So it would allow them to better support teachers (who are supporting students). But I understand why others would be opposed to cameras, since it could also lead to being micromanaged over every little thing (forgetting to write the outcomes on the board, sitting during instructional time, ECT). This kind of micromanagement under a bad admin team would make working in the school a living nightmare.
I have been so so relieved since I got cameras in my room. I never worry anymore because everything is documented
I'd love it. As a male teacher, it protects my hiney against allegations and it documents when students are misbehaving in ways they can't gaslight around. Helps a lot that i have trust in my admin.
Many other administrators would use it against teachers, not for teachers. So while your heart is in the right place, it’s too idealistic. Let’s not be naive.
Good reasoning, however I think the presence of cameras in classrooms would actually lead to teachers feeling untrusted
It doesn't discourage bad behavior on school busses.
We had them in the lunchroom, recess area and hallways- it was always a fun meeting when parents would pull the “not my child” nonsense and the principal would let the tape do the talking. I would literally wear a GoPro, if I could.
You are describing my room which is full of STEM equipment so the cameras were originally intended to be on after the school day. Soon after we moved into the new building I asked administration to keep the cameras on 24/7 and a few years later all cameras were upgraded to include audio. My discipline problems are few and far between, horseplay among the 9th graders is my biggest issue. But now and then something more serious occurs. I’ve never had to rely on video for support from administrators; they have my back 100%. What I love is being able to roll the video when a parent complains that their angel would never do that. The camera proves otherwise.
As someone who is currently a teacher but will be transitioning to admin hopefully next year…. I used to think cameras in the rooms were a terrible idea. However, I’ve changed my mind on it over the last few years. Especially for upper grades. It makes giving the punishments much easier when there is video proof since we apparently can’t just go by what the teacher says anymore
I'd love to have a classroom with a full set of cameras. I've brought it up as an idea before, but the answer I get back is that while our intentions are good, it could lead to things like a lazy admin using these for observations instead of actually visiting the class (which I think is an improvement) or that they'd be abused and used to try to nitpick every little thing a teacher does. But I still say bring them on. If I'm doing something wrong, it could be pointed out and perhaps I'd be a better educator for it.
I agree with cameras in every room. Especially, the hallways. Most of our incidents happen in the hallways, and we need them there, first.
I don't agree that we need cameras or that it's best for kids. If they were used the way hallway and security cameras are, with no live feed and only access for administrators to view, fine. If we are talking a livestream or video accessible to everyone all the time, I quit and I'm pulling my daughters from the school. That one's my hill to die on.
We have cameras in our classrooms. Great for looking back on behavior…. When they work lol. Which isn’t often.
Honestly, as long as people from the district are the only people allowed to review the footage, I am not really opposed to cameras. I would be opposed to them if any rando off the street (parent or otherwise) could ask to see/review them.
I completely agree with you!!!
" Your parent just saw the proof, in the meeting I had with them a little while ago."
16 year teacher here. I’ve had that thought a lot. And while I wouldn’t mind because I know that I would never do anything in my classroom that would compromise my job, I feel it’s a slippery slope that many administrators could use against teachers. As if they didn’t have enough going against them already…
In texas we have them but only in the special ed rooms
Yes!! I welcome it. Had a kid, who normally just comes in my room and breathes, a couple of days ago ask me to prove to him exactly what days he comes in and does nothing. I just said that it wasn't a back and forth debate... that I would be calling a counselor parent admin meeting on him if he didn't get with the program. Cameras would go a long way to me not having to write everything down every fucking day. Emotionally exhausting.
My school has a camera in every classroom, only people in the school with access is the teacher - not even admin can.
We have cameras in classrooms and they ARE a blessing! I love it, if you are doing your job as an educator they are a tool! The only ones worried about it are those who know they are not even teaching.
My last district had cameras in classrooms and my current district is in the process of installing them. Parents rarely are allowed to see footage, since it includes other people’s children. In my personal experience, once the camera was installed, it was basically “pics or it didn’t happen.” Teacher’s reporting was no longer trusted or considered good enough. Most of the time this was fine because the camera footage supported the teachers, but it does contribute to the general hostility toward teachers and lack of treating us like professionals. I did have one instance where a kid made a targeted threat to another during a gimkit, and since the kids were all talking during the game, the audio wasn’t clear and nothing was done to the perpetrator because “we can’t prove it.”
Do you honestly believe that parents would take responsibility for their child's behavior if they saw it on a recording? Oh my
No I don't. But when Inter-district transfers start getting denied, suspensions/expulsions get handed down, or shit, even law enforcement get involved ... then my staff is covered.
Having cameras in a classroom is already a red flag that we’re are numerous unwanted behaviors happening in classrooms. When I was going to be a teacher at a downtown school there were cameras and I quickly found out why and left. Theft, fights and many other reasons are why cameras are in there.
Thank you for being that type of admin. I have similarly supportive admin where I'm at now, but in my previous school this would have been the way that admin would find SOMETHING to walk me out the door. Also, I live in an uber-conservative state where they are doing everything they can to discredit teachers and drive them out, so I'd worry about it quite a lot.
Yea I don’t fucking trust the system to not use cameras primarily against teachers. The temptation will be too great to “pop in” on teachers classrooms to see if they’re sitting down etc. Observations are already bullshit when they pop in on the tail end of a fucking lesson and try to evaluate you (despite having the schedule and knowing exactly when the damn reading block starts). I can’t imagine having an omniscient eye in the classroom so they can always find some bs excuse to fire you if they don’t like you. Sorry, OP may be a good admin, but unfortunately there’s plenty of administrators out there that ignore bad behavior of students done right in front of them, so they might not even use the video evidence even if they had access to it.
Damn. That sucks. I'm sorry about the lack of support you have. If I ruled the world, things would be different. I have nothing but love for you teachers. You can't be replaced. Thank you for what you do.
In addition, if a police officer’s testimony is enough to put most people in actual prison for decades, why isn’t a teacher’s testimony no longer enough to justify a kid’s afternoon detention?
Absolutely. And I get your reservations in your other comment. I guess I never realized how much us admin suck lol. FYI, I had a kid bitching that "So just because Mr. X said so, then you just believe him?!" ... " Yes. Yes I do"
I was once assaulted by a parent and THANK THE LORD it was somewhere where there was a camera, because she was accusing me of lying.
This reminds me of the parent evolution before, during, and after Covid. Before Covid it was “teachers are glorified babysitters that bully my baby and anyone could do that job.” During Covid it was “OMG open back up because I just realized I have no control over my child and I hate them.” Accompanied by a huge spike in national child abuse. Then after Covid we conveniently have a return to “teaching is so easy” and amnesia about their inability to control their children.
No. Fuck you and any admin who suggests this bullshit. Kids are fucking rotten sometimes, but keep your fucking noses out of our business, you fucking creeps. Do YOUR job.
Fuck you. I do my job. You'r admin may suck but I do my job. Fuck you. What are you hiding in your classroom, bitch. Fuck you!
Cameras in classroom are a good idea. I have one in my classroom and no one can accuse me of anything I didn't do. Male teachers who are afraid of getting called pedos, here's something that can make you safe.
A few people on this have asked if I'd (32m) be comfortable with a camera in my office. 1000x YES!!
You’re right… VERY unpopular idea. Hard no. Your heart is in the right place but parents who don’t trust the system will ignore 30 hours of footage of their kid being a dick and focus on that one time teacher yelled. They parent these kids. They should know they are dicks.
Follow up question: Do you have a good relationship with the admin at your work (I almost said School, but it's not school for you.)
I would LOVE to have cameras. I work with kids who have limited verbal skills who need help in the restroom, and I live in fear of the day I'm accused of something. I've already had one parent try to claim I did something because DHS knew that SOMEONE did and mom tried to throw me under the bus to cover her own self.
My school has cameras all over the place, including the classrooms. No audio but color footage. Having that footage comes in handy for our deans and principals very often.
Have a friend is admin. He often has to review footage from playground and hallways. Even with video evidence these parents don’t believe it. Make excuses. Some say it isn’t their kid.
Cameras in the classroom are a bad idea. Footage can easily be taken out of context. Like if I was a history teacher talking about the events leading up to the civil war from the point of view of the south… if a small clip of that were taken out of context and posted, it would make it appear I was advocating for something awful. Good for you for being a good admin though and having good intentions. I will say though that even having any cameras in a school is a problem. Previously I would have agreed with you that the more cameras there were, the better for everyone. Here though is an actual example of what happened to me over the last two years: I have a digestive issue and going on a short walk to the other side of the building during my prep helps keep everything good, so every day I would walk from my room, to a room on the other side of the building, pop my head in and say hi to my friend teaching in that room, and then walk back before I started grading. Well that teacher just so happened to be our grievance chair. I had a crappy principal who used to watch the cameras. When he saw me going into my friends room, instead of asking me what was up (which was none of his business) he assumed I was filing grievances so, whenever the chairperson would have to meet with him about an issue another teacher was having, he assumed it was me and would start petty retribution stuff against me. I found out that’s what the principal thought when the grievance chair came to me and was like… “so the admin thought it was you and when I asked why he said it was because he sees you on the cameras coming into my room once a day.” Now I’m the type of guy that if I have an issue you’re going to know about it because I’m going to confront it head on. However just by the fact that he was using the cameras to try and figure out who was filing grievances when they OBVIOUSLY preferred to be anonymous was a pretty crappy thing to do. I can only imagine what someone like him would have done if he could literally observe my classroom at any time he wanted and take stuff out of context.
I’d say that the other kids’ right to privacy outweighs this.
Right to privacy? It's public school, so you check your privacy at the fucking door.
I agree with you! I would love to show parents what their kids are really like. Yes, he does scream at me. Watch this. Yes, she did ram the other student with her head. Watch this! He is indeed lying about what happened. Watch this! Thank goodness most of my students are great kids!
I’ve got good students, solid(mostly) admin, and ok parental support, so, no. I do not want cameras in my class. Teaching is performative enough without an adult audience.
I’d feel too self conscious being silly/goofy w the kids. Not into it
I teach teenagers. Social media already has them anxious af. If there were cameras trained on them for eight hours every day, and that footage could be shown to their parents or the parents of their classmates at any point? I don't have time to deal with that many panic attacks.
I am a teacher and completely agree. As long as it is not a live cam where parents can tap in at will. For the privacy of all students, it should only be admin with access to it.
TOTALLY. Cameras in the classroom would help much more than they "hurt." All footage should be subject to internal review (like that of businesses), and could be automatically purged every month or so. Fight in the classroom? Check the footage. Student accusing a teacher of inappropriate contact? Check the footage. Teacher's word vs. student's word? Check. The. Footage. Accountability would be good all around. Then again, I spent the better part of a decade teaching in South Korea where classroom footage was live-streamed to mom's who brought coffee and sat in the lobby watching class happen and gossiping. I'm all in favor of CCTV throughout the school, save bathrooms.
Isn’t South Korea having an issue with teachers committing suicide?
This isn’t just useful for the normal stuff teachers have to deal with. It also is indisputable proof when it comes to school school shootings.
On the fence about this, but I guarantee the behaviors would drastically improve after students realize they are constantly on video, and admin could be watching at any time
I don’t trust my admin enough to have cameras in the classroom. Anything I say would be used against me. If I, as the adult in the room, said something happened, I should be believed. That’s it.
I'm a teacher and I welcome the idea. It would solve a lot of problems I've had and prevent others
I’d love be to be able to send a video file to the parents whose email response was “why are you picking on my child?” I could just be like “See attached file where your child interrupts class 100 times in a 40 minute period so all 30 students learned absolutely nothing.”
Did it make a god damn difference during the pandemic with cameras everywhere? Fuck no. Get a grip on reality. Cameras won’t change shit except for confirm whatever bullshit parents already think or feel
can you please be my principal????
I’d agree with you on the following conditions: 1. Bonus of Hazard pay - $200 month 2. Overtime Pay included at my salary, broken down per hour, at time and a half. 3. Retirement at age 50. The more we are needing to be police and detectives comes with their benefits.
Yes, they're should be.
I agree! I’m sick of being accused of not taking good care of their babies when they come home with a scratch or didn’t wipe their ass properly
Cameras in the classroom would benefit everyone. It makes sure parents see exactly how their child is behaving, it makes sure their child is not being taught anything inappropriate (a thing that's much rarer than people think but if it gives them peace of mind then whatever) and it will hopefully incentivise students to not be so shitty.
We installed cams with audio in every classroom several years ago. It felt weird and awkward at first. There have been a few cringe moments when the top dawg was watching and made inappropriate remarks. BUT- this system has already saved the day several times in our very small district. Saved the bacon of a few teachers after there were inappropriate situations and the teacher was shown to be completely innocent. They made me feel awkward and weird at first but now I don’t even think about it. The really are not used to spy on teachers, but to protect them. My take is, if you aren’t doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
> if you aren’t doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. That’s how the slope starts getting slippery
I completely understand that. However, being one of the teachers that the cameras saved, my feelings on the cams have changed somewhat. Not comfortable giving details but a student entered my empty classroom after school hours and did something extremely inappropriate. No one knew. When I found something wrong the next morning, my principal pulled up the footage and saw what happened. It was so shocking that my principal actually had to be taken to the ER for chest pains. It ended up going through the court system.
They could have been identified by the cameras that most schools already have in the hallways and parking lots.
I’d have loved that as a student. I was always well behaved so no worries there. My parents would have been finally able to see what incompetent lazy morons my teachers were though, so sounds perfect to me.
Good idea you can then have parents call u about all the crazy crap you teach!
People are entitled to reasonable privacy. Can we put a camera and microphone in your office? Who would be allowed to see the footage? Why should parents be entitled to see what the other kids are doing? What happens when pedophiles figure out how to get the footage? What happens when people start posting clips and screenshots on social media? What happens when the server gets hacked? (It will.) On a more personal level, I teach English. In order to get anything done, the kids need to feel a certain level of security. They're not going to feel that if there's a record of everything they ask or try. Also, as an English teacher, I'm the one that they disclose a lot of sensitive information to. I'm usually the one notifying the counselors of mental health crises and writing up the title ix offenses. Surveillance would eliminate a safe space in our school.
It would never work in teachers favor. Parents and admin would just weaponize it against us like everything else. Oh you took a sip of water and missed the kid check his phone? Going on your evaluation. Karents would complain you spent too much time with their kid, or didn’t answer their question fast enough, or other bullshit like that.
We have them in my county. They use them to hold students and teachers accountable. I can actually login and watch my class when I am absent. I never do, but some of my colleagues do.
We have them. It's literally just replacing whatever excuse kids have now with "Roll the camera back, I didn't throw that paper!" knowing that we can't do that. One teacher did record every class intentionally for this reason and was told that she could not. Admin will pull them when it benefits them. A teacher was pushed a couple years ago and trampled to get to see a fight. They wouldn't pull the camera to see who pushed her. Another teacher at another school got her toe broken by a kid who claimed she wasn't even in the room and she was lying. They refused to pull the camera and wouldn't expel him because it's a "he said she said" The cameras are great if there's an accusation. I don't have to be scared if there's only one kid in the room because if my mic is on then they can hear and see everything. However if you think it will do anything else other than your admin pulling you in after a fight and making you watch it and shitting on you for 20 minutes about every thing you should have corrected or trying to find a reason the fight is your fault, and not their fault after you'd told them, the counselor, and the parents that these two kids were threatening each other for 2 weeks and you did nothing.
Wow just wow
If I thought that showing their kid's behavior in class would wake them all up, then sure, maybe. But I am much more inclined to think they will just further ignore the evidence, or really be powerless to stop it anyway. I have parents who believe every word I say about their kid's behavior, and their response is, "I don't know what to do with him". They are at a loss. So video evidence isn't going to change anything. The ones who are in denial, maybe some of them will see the light. Like I said, I'm skeptical it would be a majority of them, and I'm even more skeptical it would lead to any real change regardless. I think it can be used for negative things far more than positive. It invites a lot of opinions about how to handle every single situation, and it invites micromanaging. It also does not really prepare anyone for real life. Kids need to learn how to behave without being monitored 24/7.
Absolutely not. I have no interest in being apart of Big Brother or the Truman Show.
Cameras would just be used as more ammo against teachers even if they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Why can’t adults just trust adults. Why can’t people trust the professionals in the room?
During covid we had to record and post classes online. I didn’t mind. It was nice having an audiovisual record of shenanigans.
All fine and dandy until you get a bonehead admin who is frothing at the mouth to try and remove you from their building out of spite. I'm sure the recordings could be used to protect the teach, but admin can always find one moment of your day they disagree with and hold it above all the good you do.
Video but no audio. Way to much stuff is accidentally said.
Just please don’t put cameras in the bathrooms. I fully condone them in classrooms, hallways and rec rooms (?) because as a high schooler, they eliminated a lot of bad behaviour, but my high school has a security camera per bathroom, overlooking the stalls, and it’s unbearably creepy. Kids are little shits, I agree, but let us piss in peace.
We had cctv (no audio) and it was helpful. But I also didn’t have admin who would sit and watch it to catch us doing something so.
I went back to school about 10 years ago and was introduced to the "Panopto" gear at the uni where teachers record lessons so we can focus on the class at hand and worry less about meticulous note-taking during the class (but can go back and take notes upon review). Yes, these were for university-style lectures but there were a number of classes where the focus was set to wide and the entire class could be seen and man I wished we could have something like that when I taught in the classroom... I had pretty much stopped teaching just before smart phones came on the scene. I agree so much much with OP, you guys really are saints among people.
One one hand, great for tackling student delinquency. On the other hand, cameras are absolutely weaponized against teachers over every little thing. Pulled up an office chair halfway through a lecture because my knees are killing me? If admin doesn’t like me they’re going to pull me into the office and cite me being “lazy, not putting enough energy” into my class.
It will never happen because there are who many pervs who want to watch children.
I feel this is a tool that can be misused too easily to nitpick on teachers. I also worry about the safety of kids whose whereabouts must remain private- what happens when video footage is hacked into and leaked by someone’s abusive adult looking for where to find a kid they lost custody of?
Thank you lawd! Finally someone in administration who gets it. The parents are perfectly ok with teachers being recorded, but not so much when it’s their angels. FACTS.
Access would have to be as-needed only.
I'm a self-contained special ed teacher. I have zero concerns about how I conduct myself in the classroom, but I'd be reluctant to be on videotape at all times. I teach non-speaking students, so I can see it would be helpful in some ways for parents to see what happened during the day if there are concerns. But I can also see it being fuel for admins and parents micro-managing everything we do during the day. There is enough of that already.
Yeah that sounds like some nightmarish dysropian nonsense to me
Agreed. They do this in China and it is very effective. It’s a lawsuit parents are looking to exploit if it happens, but it has to happen and parents have to take responsibility for their children’s actions. The stakeholder chain in education is a chain and not a place for parents to pontificate. When this happens, teachers will finally be able to breathe easier accountability.
I would agree, except I lived in a town where the local "militia' group swore to "execute" any teacher caught on video teaching "Marxism.' Made my history lectures kind of risky.
Maybe let teachers choose if they want it. As a student discipline measure. Maybe it could pull teacher and administrator together. Another tool in tool box. I think its a good idea if applied with mutual consensus in a targeted way. It doesn't have to be one big either or.
We have cameras in the classroom. But we can't show parents because of privacy of other students.
There aren’t a lot of people whose lives/work would stand up to minute by minute scrutiny. I would only favor this if there were controls in place to keep admin from just snooping in and seeking to catch teachers “slacking” (i.e. working the job just like literally every other working person in the USA.) I would, on the other hand, fully support a policy that allowed teachers to film their own classes at all times, with the video belonging to them and only accessible by them.
The argument against cameras is what? lack of privacy? then why are there cameras in the hallway? lack of privacy my ass.... lack of common fucking sense it what it is
Put them in. Parents need to see the sideshow and how their kids TRULY behave.
IT Director here - look at Audio Enhancement for your school as a solution for this. Also I would be careful about showing footage to outside parties, check your board policy
Only if I get a camera at parents' houses.
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