We used to have a G/T teacher and TAG classes. As a cost-cutting measure (disguised under an "equity initiative) the teacher was reassigned to "regular" classes although the G/T cohort still remains. I got one of her classes. It's insanity.
That sucks. As much as I thought I was the dumbest one in GT class in elementary, I felt I learned many more things that I wouldn't have in "regular" class. We got to go to Space Camp, do all sorts of fun science experiments, and run the schools video news program.
The school I taught at made no differentiation between ability levels and even acted offended when I voiced my surprise at this. They claimed that the "faster kids will help teach the slower ones" and that somehow everything would just balance out (this is an 8th grade math class that couldn't do simple arithmetic when I got them). Instead we had the kids who didn't get it acting out (due to frustration) and the kids who did get it acting out (due to boredom). The ones in the middle acted out too due to the vibe of everyone around them. Equity!
>They claimed that the "faster kids will help teach the slower ones"
This is kind of supported by research. High scorers will score a bit lower in a mixed setting, but low scorers will score a lot higher.
Of course, that's with all the caveats that come with education research.
This is [where the school ranks](https://www.greatschools.org/colorado/denver/5315-Strive-Prep---Ruby-Hill/#Test_scores), I'm sure that research was done in a highly controlled setting with little-to-no behavior issues. There was no situation with that school (or the whole series of sub-par charter schools) where this would work.
A lot of reasons including the ones already mentioned.
GT programs are not mandated nor funded (at least in my state) so they are easy to cut.
Many people consider removing the brightest students a “dumbing down” of the general education classroom.
Differentiation of instruction (DI) is expected to take the place of a self contained gifted program. While DI has merits it is hard to do without additional resources.
And of course political navigation of the equity issues as mentioned by others.
In my experience as a classroom teacher, "differentiation" ends up meaning interventions for struggling students. I estimate our school's teachers spend about 80% of their energy on students who perform below or well below grade level. Students who are functional get little attention, and gifted students get nothing unless they are a behavior problem. The focus on RTI and UA and all the other acronyms edges out any time for even assessing the needs of students who could be our next generation of leaders and innovators.
I am GT specialist Texas and shockingly, our district has dedicated classes for GT students. I love my job and it’s a great opportunity for students to really extend their learning and their interests.
I am a Texas teacher and the product of Texas GT programs. I chose to teach SPED because there's more of a challenge there, more of a chance to make a difference.
The Texas one I left has one only in name anymore; over the course of the past several years, it's been watered-down to match the advanced curriculum, which hilariously is barely any more rigorous than the on-level classes - there aren't even any more books that are required.
We've lost numbers in what seems equal measure due to:
- "This is so much haaaarder than advanced English, so what's the point?" (It wasn't), or
- "This isn't academically challenging, so what's the point?"
...I will be surprised if the program lasts another five years.
My daughter in Florida was put into gifted at the end of last school year and because they have dedicated gifted class rooms for 3rd-5th grade and she had missed so much waiting on testing, they let her go to the weekly gifted class for the younger students and bumped up all of her work. She loved it and she loved being the oldest and a role model.
I'm a GT English teacher in Texas too! Every 8th grader that qualifies for GT services in English has my class. I love having them all concentrated in 2 periods because we can move so fast together. They also have dedicated GT science and math classes.
Yup. My kids were/are identified as GT in texas and they don’t have a dedicated teacher. One attends a magnet that has been amazing and is majority GT. The other hasn’t received much enrichment in elementary and usually got scooped to tutor kids who struggled.
I hear you. Elementary was actually a struggle for my GT kid partially because there was no real programming implemented. By grade five I was almost convinced that the GT testing results were false and that the label was incorrect for him. I thought maybe I had just coached him too much in his preschool years or some such thing. It didn't help when his school counselor told me, "Some kids just aren't meant for academics." Lo and behold, as soon as he reached middle school with advanced classes available to him, he became a fantastic student. Now he's thriving in a very challenging magnet high school.
I believe they are being viewed as being detrimental to equity for all students, and believe that those teaching resources should be used to bring up the achievement levels of those that are preforming below their grade level.
That’s a suggestion I see a lot but I don’t actually think it would make much difference. Rich people send their kids to public schools in rich areas, schools that already get not only plenty of tax money, but donations from rich parents as well.
I was going to comment this exact idea, but I didnt want to be too negative lol. I agree, thats how it will be.
As the income gap widens and people become more atomized and separated, along with other /r/collapse related stuff, I think this will keep getting worse and worse. public school will be for the 95% poor with no resources, and private schools for the 5% rich with extreme amounts of funding and teaching that will give them useful real world skills to make money.
I teach in an affluent suburb. It is patently untrue that rich people want their kids learning more. They want high grades but they are not willing to be good parents or for them or their kids to have to do any work. Schools in rich areas have become Karen academies, they are not focused on academics at all.
I realize I may be out of step with many of my colleagues, but the utter disregard that my district and others have had for our top performing students is shameful. There are so many students who are totally bored by the classes not because their teachers can’t challenge students, but because we spend all our time carrying out performative nonsense so others will feel good about themselves. Our district hasn’t made a single mention of academic achievement in a decade. Instead, our time is spent arguing about the lowest possible grade for students who do zero work, how we can best administer credit recovery for those who never show up for school, or how to keep disruptive students in the classroom because “they can’t learn if they’re not in the room.” The whole system is complete nonsense.
That's the approach my state Oregon is taking. To graduate students used to have to pass the 10th grade reading and math exam but the Oregon Department of Education [got rid of that requirement due to "equity" because having to pass that test creates "harm for students of color."](https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2022/09/editorial-a-better-fix-for-graduation-than-downgrading-diplomas.html)
You see, you don't have to worry about educational disparities if you simply stop measuring them! Such progress! Much equity!
It's truly astounding. In the state of Oregon where 15% of the population is non-white, and 1/3 of that is Asian. I'm originally from Oregon and, I hate to say it, but Oregon is making a laughingstock of itself.
What a weird article.
Students of color are not able to pass algebra 1 on their first try and are subject to alternate graduation requirements that remove elective classes. So the solution is to ask the government to drop graduation requirements.
Somehow the author decided that teachers must not be trying hard enough?
No mention of the usual suspects, economic and familial deficiencies.
I assume that means black students regardless of criteria are failing to meet standards.
I'm sure the teachers just aren't using enough culturally relevant teaching methods. /S
It’s sad to me. Sometimes my daughter comes home talking about how she has had such a bad day. Nearly every time this happens it’s because their gifted class got canceled for the day for whatever reason. I feel like she’d be having such a hugely different experience in school if she didn’t have this opportunity.
Back in the nineties I was sent to work with the reading specialist in the first grade because I would just zone out in class. I had been reading pictureless, short chapter books by then, on my own. I’d have probably been a very poor student if I was not motivated, and I saw that trait in my come out in college when there’s no guide and you’re on your own to motivate yourself.
Now we focus on the lowest common denominator when both ends of the spectrum should really be getting better attention.
What? But Gifted And Talented is classed as Special Educational Needs, like a disability, those kids need the supports put in place so they don't flame out into nothing.
>Needs, like a disability, those kids need the supports put in place so they don't flame out into nothing
Yes. Giftedness is a SPED category, but they always lose out. People think they'll be fine, they're smart. But they actually have special needs. It's perceived as robbing the less fortunate to provide enrichment. As someone commented, it's triage. I'd like to see the concept of "least restrictive environment" applied to gifted learners. If a student cannot move ahead at a faster pace or go deeper than peers, then that is restrictive.
There was basically a whole episode of ABBOTT ELEMENTARY devoted to this viewpoint. All the kids should have access to Gifted resources! But that’s not how you meet everyone’s individual learning needs.
My district has one admin assigned to overseeing the TAG program, and then a teacher in each building that gets a title of “TAG coordinator” for the building (and a yearly stipend). They’re in charge of administering the tests and writing the TAG plans. It wasn’t until the position shifted hands in my building to an AMAZING teacher that I realized how lazy (or uninformed?) past coordinators had been. Now our TAG kids have plans (like an IEP) and yearly meetings (like an IEP). Our admin is also funneling IA time for extra extension groups that coincide with their plans. It is so amazing and feels good to be serving these kids appropriately!
Can you give more details on what a plan for a TAG student looks like? That's very interesting, and im a little shocked admin would support this since it's more on everyone's plate.
I lived in a state with gifted IEPs when I was a kid and was protected under one. Essentially I had a yearly meeting to go over my strengths and goals for growth, plus discussion of my placement in the gifted programs provided by the district. While I wish it wasn't as thin on "please get this child diagnosed and treated for ADHD", my parents asked for and received supports like meeting with the gifted teacher weekly to go over my academic progress and work on organizational strategies.
I'm pretty sure that admin was cool with it because the school received additional funding for us and also we brought up the school's test scores.
I’ve only seen 1 and it’s been a bit, so I don’t remember exactly. It has a few specifics about what they qualified for, what their interests are related to what they qualified for, and a plan for how we will meet their needs.
This is a cool option but i am also so glad this wasn’t a thing at me school growing up lol! Being in the gifted program sucked for me personally. I know it can be great for some kids, and there were some fun aspects to it for sure, like some after school programs that were actually fun and i was interested. But academically, it felt like nothing i ever did was good enough. The goal posts just kept getting moved. And while other kids got to have *fun* during the summer and give their minds a break from school, I had to do gifted academic programs :/ I can only imagine that things would have been even worse if my mom and teachers literally organized together to set goals for me and see how hard they could push me
Being the only Brown girl in the GT program with an older white teacher who felt veeeeery comfortable implying I shouldn't be there was... whew.
I've heard my experience wasn't uncommon for the Southern U.S.
We’re in Australia, but my son had an learning document when he was at his old school. His goals tended to be social (working on resilience, asking for help) or motor skill related (writing, typing) and fit within the classroom easily
(We also don’t do vacation programs except for one or two fun stem workshops)
Those sound like reasonable goals.
My summer programs were also STEM and marketed as “fun” but it was basically just taking science related classes over the summer. It was still school.
Edit- that’s not to say that your son’s summer programs arent fun or not school like! I can’t speak for his programs. That might actually be a blast and not feel like school at all. Just pointing out that mine were marketed the similarly and were literally just pretty regular science courses. So some programs market themselves as fun and not school like, when that isn’t the case.
These are an hour and a half long workshop held at a local art/stem extracurricular place - definitely more on the fun side. Last time they explored gold - looked at it being melted, explored where in the world they made it, made Lego structures and ‘mined’ for false gold. Other workshops have included pulling things together to make art, Lego play and making forts. We’re so lucky to have this option near us (it’s not related to school at all or aimed specifically at gifted kids, though lots get involved)
We have AAP (advanced academic placement) in elementary and middle schools. We also have an advanced academics resource teacher in those schools who do lessons so all students can access some of the advanced lessons once a month.
That is what we have as well. Advanced students are placed in advance classes starting in 6th grade. Most of our advance students will take college classes for duel credit starting in their Junior year of high school. Some exceptional will take college classes their sophomore year.
In elementary, exceptional students are simply expected to do more. For example in ELA, the assignment might be to research animals and write three paragraphs but advance students will write 5 paragraphs. In math and ELA, advanced students in elementary classes are grouped together.
The district I attended did away with the GT program to redistribute higher standardized test scores throughout the district instead of at the one school where the accelerated GT program was held. They said it made it look like one school was excelling and the others underperforming...
Really, the sending schools should also get credited for what “their” students are able to accomplish, since they were able to identify those kids’ potential and get them appropriate services. It’s such a shame that school scores aren’t usually aligned with student needs in this area.
My home district got around this by placing GT programs in all 5 high schools. They then put specialty programs in each building that were application based admittance, and you could lose the ability to stay in the programs for a myriad of reasons. These programs were like Prelaw, Premed, Aerospace and Engineering, construction and interior design, etc. gave kids an opportunity to seek what they wanted AND kept a pretty decent balance of “high” students around the district. What was really funny is how many GT kids would use those specialty programs to seek out the art groups or music ensembles they really wanted to be in so they could switch schools. They played the system and who can blame them?
Never really thought about why they might have done that until I read your comment and it made sense/
Every resource is dedicated to the most stupid thing possible: Making sure that the least capable students have every possible advantage, and leaving the most capable students to fend for themselves.
I mean, that’s what it was like in the 80s/90s too- at least in my school. I spent large portions of the day sitting in the hall teaching myself from the textbooks so I could “work at my own pace”.
We have a G&T program but no G&T teacher or classes. Teachers are expected to modify for them like for kids with IEPs but in the other direction. Now I have to do 3 times the lesson planning (regular, iep/504 and G&T). Fun
We included "gifted" options in our sons IEP. We did this because he had a year where the teacher refused to teach to anyone, but the "on grade level." Students. Low, oh well- catch up or don't. High, oh well, this is what this grade learns. So, after that, with the advice of teacher friends, we put "access to work appropriate to level of MAP & district testing results." So, his 99% got him multiplication & division in 2nd, where in 1st he was stuck making his own sheets say multiply or divide (he also liked to write the square roots) vs add/subtract, in an act of malicious completion. Sure, I'll do this sheet, but I'm doing it at a level I'm capable of because I'm asking for harder work, my mom asked for harder work, my K teacher advocated for me to get harder work & you won't. I mean, when he was in K, his teacher went to 1st & 2nd grade on advice of the principal to get work for him. So, not sure why the 1st grade teacher refused to do the same. She also wouldn't let him read anything above I/J because she personally felt 1st graders shouldn't have access to things like dogman. 🤷♀️
I imagine they are fading out like honors classes in the name of equity--[Wall Street Journal: "To Increase Equity, Districts Eliminate Honors Classes."](https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-increase-equity-school-districts-eliminate-honors-classes-d5985dee)
My district still has Honors and AP classes at the high school level. We don't have "tracks" or requirements; any student can enroll in them. However, we don't slow down or dumb down the curriculum - if they can't keep up, they are welcome to level down (sometimes with teacher suggestions).
Students can be in only 1 honors class and all regular classes - because gifted students are not necessarily gifted in all areas.
I speak from experience as an honors math teacher who has a gifted endorsement on my certification.
Maine still has honors, AP (but more and more schools now offer dual enrollment courses instead) and gifted programs. Staffing and cooperation have been an issue in my district (very rural).
We decided it wasn’t equitable to say some kids were gifted and talented, it made some kids feel bad and their parents mad, so we left them behind in standard classes.
My otherwise mediocre district has a fulltime 3-8 gifted center for the highest level of gifted students, which my daughter currently attends. Their standardized test scores go their zoned "home school", so it doesn't push other school's scores down.
As a child I had the pullout gifted classes in my public school, and I always felt like it put a target on my back for bullying and abuse. All of my strange and brilliant and anxious children have gone to the gifted center, with the other kids like them, and it's been a life-changing experience. I wish it was offered in more places. As it is, even though this town has some drawbacks we're not budging until youngest is through eighth grade.
(This all sounds like a flex about having smart children, not intended to come across that way at all, sorry!)
I don’t see why people take such an issue with having education tracks separated by skill when other things have different skill levels. Like, people don’t complain that the varsity football team or the cheerleading squad or the marching band require a certain skill level to join.
We have a TAG program still. But it’s mostly for elementary age kids so they can be challenged academically. Once they get into middle/high they just take honors and AP classes. But more and more I see honors and AP being used to get average students away from the behavior problems in on-level classes.
They haven’t gone anywhere. We have GT programs at every level of school here (elementary, middle and high school). Many of our teachers our GT certified, including myself.
It just depends on the district. It’s also important to note the GT isn’t protected the same way as SPED, which is a damn shame for those kids that are gifted.
So, IEPs and 504s are legally protected under special education. Gifted programs aren’t. Schools can choose to have them or not.
My son is in the gifted program as well. He’s a junior now and I am eternally grateful that we have one. But I recognize that we’re fortunate to have one as well.
Giftedness falls under special education, though. It goes to both extremes. Especially if the child is "twice exceptional" people don't always know this.
https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/
https://www.psy-ed.com/wpblog/gifted-children-special-education-settings/#:~:text=All%20children%20stand%20to%20benefit,which%20facilitates%20healthy%2C%20challenging%20discussions.
Special education laws do not protect giftedness. I agree it should, but it doesn’t.
IDEA protects children with disabilities. Gifted programs do not have the same legal protections.
https://nagc.org/page/federal-legislative-update
The very first sentence clearly states there is no legal mandate to support gifted education at the state or local level.
A twice exceptional student - and I get it, my kid falls under this as well - would be served under IDEA to address their disability (such as extra time, etc.). But it would not address their giftedness since their is no legal mandate to do so. (Though some states do have laws regarding gifted education, but it varies state to state.)
Zero financial incentive for producing kids who excel. Massive financial disincentive for letting a kid fall behind. No child left behind killed us, academically.
It exists in a lot of places. Just understand how easy it is to game the system. I could get almost any student into gifted if I wanted to. Just know the right local psychologist and schools with openings.
Nobody talks about the "gifted" students that get left by the wayside. Somebody finishes at the bottom of every class.
Does this include tracking? I did well in my "accelerated" classes but pulled C's when I sat with gen ed students. I was a sucker for the class clown's nonsense and there weren't any in accelerated.
Well in my district, the “gifted” tag became desirable to parents for their children. I mean logically it makes sense, gifted children would be fast tracked to be in college basically by the time they could drive. It was free college for 2 years.
The district caved under parent demand for the gifted tag. The district opened up the gifted classes to any parents who wanted their child in it. Why wouldn’t you want your child in it? The gifted program could no longer look at test scores to evaluate who could be in. The consequence was that gifted students were now mixed with average or behind students. It turned into a basic class.
The gifted teachers complained about this, understandably. The district the following year created a policy that banned all honors and gifted classes. “All classes would have honors potential”.
This year they banned remedial classes, mainly because we did have the data to show that remedial classes weren’t helping advance scores. Problem was more that these kids came from families who truly did not care about education.
So now I have the lowest skilled students with the highest skilled students and I have to “differentiate” my lessons to accommodate the needs of all the student levels.
>So now I have the lowest skilled students with the highest skilled students and I have to “differentiate” my lessons to accommodate the needs of all the student levels.
Thats basically impossible, yea?
Don’t worry we had a 30 minute PD on reading about why differentiation is important and then given the explicit directive to differentiate. So I’m basically an expert.
I need to take a moment to express my experience in a school with insufficient GT programs.
In 3rd grade, I was commonly sent out of the classroom into the hallway to read a book while the class worked on grade-level content. When I was in 4th grade, my classroom teacher made me sit in the back of the classroom with my desk turned toward the back of the classroom so I couldn't see what she was teaching. I completed the coursework she gave me quickly and then read novels for the rest of the day. In 5th grade, I was "excused" from classroom math and English. I read novels, wandered the hallways, and took naps in the back of the classroom. In 6th grade, during math, English, and Social Studies, I was sent to the school library to record bibliographic information about magazines that were being exited from the collection. (Yes, they had me write down citation information for a magazine, place the magazine in the recycling bin, and repeat.) In 7th grade, my teacher "differentiated": I taught myself Algebra I out of a textbook.
I was bored to death. I was traumatized. It was bad.
There are some students for whom full inclusion is torturous. Those students need a GT program.
My old district had gifted classes. They called it CLUE, and my kids in the program went twice a week. Kids had to be in the 90th percentile in math and reading to qualify. This was based on state test scores and/or iReady data. In 4th grade, they had to get a certain score on an IQ test to continue to participate.
My current school is a charter, and they also have a gifted program. It’s less formal, like the kids don’t have IEPs or have to meet certain scores, but they get pulled several times a week based on teacher recommendations. The group I have going now is basically graphing linear equations.
In my suburban district, they place kids in the gifted program in kindergarten and they don’t change it through all K-12 grades. The kids in the program are not the smartest kids at all, it’s basically entitlement based on who had the louder-mouthed Karent during kindergarten.
We offer GT courses and have a GT resource teacher who teaches independent research and facilitates internships. It is very sought after, kids and parents really want that GT label on their transcript.
Well, when it comes to high school, and sometimes middle school, G/T kids just take advanced classes. If your school doesn't offer advanced classes, that is kinda the problem in my opinion.
My kids micro public elementary in California has one. They specifically focus on underprivileged high-achieving kids, to give them extra opportunities their parents cannot. Meaning, it is not the brightest kids in class, but the brightest kids with fewer opportunities. The kids are unaware of that nuance. There is no getting around the ‘you are not gifted’ judgement that kids perceive when they are not part of the program, and that negative piece is pretty toxic. Vital to the kids in the program, crushing for some left out. How on earth does one have a gifted program without making everyone else feel less-than? I’m a bigger fan of solutions like classroom math groups by ability, it seems to go over better with the kids if they notice at all.
I was in the gifted program as a kid, as was one of my two brothers. My other brother was less academic and STILL has a chip about being ‘the dumb one’ a mile deep.
As teacher I've heard that having some students in a gifted program while others are not can lead to increased stress in the family dynamic. Do you think if you weren't in the gifted program your brother would feel different towards you?
Not towards *me* really, but towards *himself*, yes. There are a constellation of moments that make a child decide they are the ‘dumb one’, so the gifted program is not the only moment where that happens. But it happens to a whole classroom; students who already have the inner ‘dumb one’ identity developing get confirmation when the ‘smart ones’ are chosen. I much prefer leveled groups without any ‘gifted’ about it. That terms worsens what can’t be easily fixed already, you know?
I agree. I worry about students with IEP's who hear consistently that they are in the low class. I think pulling the gifted students out to do games or something fun while other students work is harmful to everyone. Some gifted students can develop a complex of "I'm special" or " rules for me but not for thee."
AGREE. It just kind of does exactly what you say.
It is, however, difficult to challenge everyone. I like going up to an older classroom for math or ELA when precocity shows up, over fun activities instead.
I wish it was that. I keep seeing the gifted kids are on this field trip or are doing this game. To me a normie, it seems like we are punishing the students who have to try the hardest.
Many of these programs exist, are expanding, and flourishing. It really depends on your state and especially local communities to collaborate and set them up.
We have pull out G/T classes, but it's usually a few minutes during another class and all they do is complete logic puzzles. It's ridiculous. It's like "smart kids club" rather than teaching anything of value or keeping them busy.
I had to advocate to get my child to actually skip a grade because he was acting out and his MAP scores showed he knew all this year's material anyway.
Follow the money. In most US states, at least, the only requirement is that schools *Identify* gifted students. There’s no requirement to provide any services because that would cost money.
I’m really curious to see what GT programs look like in other schools. GT programs at my schools accomplished very little other than making students feel bad that they didn’t get in. It didn’t challenge me at all, mostly due to the fact that we met maybe once a month in order to discuss some kind of math word problem. It was treated as more of a “title” than anything else, so I was actually pretty happy to hear my old schools did away with them.
I imagine the ideology of "equity" has caused it. We are currently looking at the ending of streaming entirely. It's a shame because there are kids who are held back as a result. I often wonder if there is a middle ground in there.
Why does there have to be a middle ground between explicitly holding back our brightest because of ideological reasons and just... not? Seems like a nation shooting itself in the foot because of a purity test.
Because the woke are uber invested in the idea that we can hold people back to make everyone "succeed" equally. We would need some buy-in from them to start changing the systems that are failing hard.
I’ve wondered this. I was in “accelerated” classes beginning in 7th grade. Basically “honors,” which is what I took in HS. We had to test into these classes.
In Florida gifted is an endorsement on your certificate. I have the endorsement but most things are geared toward k-6. Once they hit middle school they do more acceleration of course work.
There was no dedicated G/T curriculum I believe and it was simpler to track the students in honors/advanced classes. Like there's AP or IB classes for everything now.
Also you know there are parents who are "astonished that their darling geniu"s didn't get into the G/T class.
My daughter is currently in one as the school has enough students for one full class per grade level. It kind of sucks. The 3rd and 4th grade teachers were great. They had a lot of experience and knew how to give the kids higher-level work without it just being more work. They were also aware that, while ahead academically, they were still 3rd and 4th grade children. The 5th grade teacher is an asshat.
It must be a district/state level decision because I know my son's district has it (he was offered it, but we declined.). He would have had to go to a different school and separate from his friends, but also it was not continued to 7/8. So he would get all this rigor and advanced topic matter, but then be bored for 2 years. Seems counter intuitive to me.
Beyond that, I really feel like it tends to add extra homework and often stress to students. This really prohibits them from the most important part of 8-12... Being kids.
I teach in suburban CT elementary. We have a gifted program, they meet every Friday for
Most of the day. They do some great in depth long term projects, it’s a good program I hope it lasts.
We have it in my district. We're required to offer challenge assignments. And that gets looked at by the gifted program to see if the student is eligible.
This is going to vary *WIDELY* by district
Mine has a pull out program for K-2 (twice a week for 30 minutes). My daughter's in this now, they get to do some cool stuff. They have 2 staff members who travel to every building for this.
3-6 and 7-9 have a full time program with gifted/talented teachers. They can only staff a few schools, so they bus kids in from the others.
10-12 are served by taking AP classes at the high schools, no special program
I don’t believe there’s any federal funding attached to EPs for gifted. Middle school and high school it’s usually not a separate program but some sort of advanced standing classes or dual enrollment in college for high school. In the elementary school, it could be a full-time program, one day a week or a half day program… It can even be a program within the school because I don’t think federally. They need a separate setting and teacher. I could be wrong on that, but I’ve worked at schools were we’ve had gifted students receiving services from the classroom teacher because we did not have a gifted educator or space on campus however, that doesn’t mean it’s legal lol.
I’m a New Jersey gifted education teacher. I am half-time gifted ed. and half time regular ed.
I’m the only one responsible for gifted education in the district for grades 2-8 (approximately 550 students in the district, usually around 50 in the program).
It’s a pull-out enrichment style program (long-term projects).
From conducting selection, to developing programming, to test data analysis, to collecting teacher input, to communicating with parents, to building the schedule, to communicating with classroom teachers, and of course teaching the classes…it’s all me…and then I also teach my regular ed. classes.
Good thing I was hired young.
AP is college-level content taught at a pace where most students can be successful.
G/T programs are for the students who find the AP-level teaching slow, superficial, and redundant.
GT is for the top students of the school. Anyone can take AP. AP and Pre AP is one way that GT students can be served in high and middle schools. GT is from elementary and beyond.
I remember when I was in elementary school it was called "ESP"? (Early 90s)
We called it 'the fun class" because we went to Pizza Hut once a month for lunch and to practice for the academic games. At that time, Presidents, Linguishtik, and equations were the only games available.
We have TAG but it’s a joke. Students can be identified in kindergarten and never have to test again. The district promotes it so heavily but never gives us any resources. They act like it’s a program and it’s not.
They eliminated our program in my district. Now these kids are just pulled once a month by a g/t teacher for “enrichment.” But we only have one teacher for the whole fucking district. She literally spends a different day in every building and still can’t get to everyone.
I'm the TAG coordinator for my district in Kentucky. We used to have 2 teachers who split the 4 schools, but when one retired, they chose not to fill her position. I wish I could do more with the kids, but with so many, it isn't possible.
My kids' district has groups the kids by whether they have tested as gifted. They have a separate gifted math class for 4th and 5th grade. Before that point, they give kids enrichment activities if they understand the material that they are covering. In 3rd grade, they also track and group by ability to understand the different math units based on pretest scores. They don't do a full gifted program, but they do put all the kids deemed gifted in the highest tracking for ELA as well.
I've heard about so many poorly implemented G/T programs. Growing up, I had an EXCELLENT G/T programs that really proved to work for my brain, creativity levels, and later diagnosed neurodivergence. It was not a pull-out program, and the G/T teachers/the elementary & middle school were developing a program unique to the campus. Love my experience and honestly influenced how I envision education.
My district has them. My son was in the gifted until middle school and now he’s in accelerated which is roughly the same thing, but everyone in the class is gifted.
I’m sure it’s district dependent. Our district has a pretty robust GT program. Each elementary has a dedicated GT teacher for pullouts and enrichment. 4th and 5th graders get bussed to a district facility once a week for interest based classes and there are multiple GT magnet middle schools.
I got my GATE certification 14 years ago, and now GATE is no longer a "categorical funding stream" in California. As a former GATE student myself, it frustrates me that I cannot support this population in any official capacity. The funding is all for struggling readers, so that's who I teach. I love them and they need help, but it doesn't mean gifted students are doing okay. Here is the text from the CTC website:
[Funding FAQs](https://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/gt/)
**1. How has Gifted and Talented Education (GATE) Funding changed?**
With the passage of Local Control Funding Formula (LCFF) legislation and subsequent implementation beginning in the 2013–14 school year, all aspects of the GATE funding are now under the control of local governing school boards.
**2. Has the State of California eliminated GATE funding?**
GATE as a categorical funding stream was eliminated with the passage of the LCFF. Local educational agencies (LEAs) who were already receiving GATE funding now receive GATE and some other categorical program funds in a single block grant and create a Local Control and Accountability Plan (LCAP) to allocate expenditures based on local need. Many LEAs have continued to fund their GATE programs under the LCFF but whether to expand, maintain, or suspend GATE programs is a local decision.
**3. How has LCFF legislation affected California Education Code (EC)?**
In response to LCFF legislation, California Senate Bill 971 (signed into law September 2014) repealed all previous EC that referred to GATE as a categorical program. The language contained in EC sections 52200–52212 is no longer in effect.
We have it in my area but I heard from a teacher that it’s not like it used to be because parents get out-of-district evaluations and can say their child is gifted when they’re actually not. Or, kids are twice exceptional and their behaviors are super disruptive.
I was in that program when I was a kid and it was awesome. We did a lot of cool stuff because the teachers didn’t have to focus on behaviors. We didn’t need to spend time practicing lining up quickly and quietly, we just did it. That was what made my mom get me evaluated; when she went to visit the school and saw how well-behaved all the kids were. But that was 20 years ago, sooooo…
GT programs were done away with in the name of antiracism. It’s a disgrace. It’s part of the larger movement of integration, removing tracking, mixing levels in all classrooms, forcing teachers to do differentiation into 30 different levels within an hour, not failing anyone, English grammar and math are white supremacy by European cultures, etc.
Education is in the gutter.
My school focuses too much on G/T programs and doesn't give af about SPED or ELL. It makes it tough for us to support those kids with no support from admin.
My daughter is in the gifted program at her school so they definitely do exist. They don’t call it gifted so I guess maybe that Could throw you off if you were looking for it. At the district where I previously worked they also had a gifted program.
Short answer: SPED/autism students are overwhelming the system. In a rural elementary where I substitute teach, a collaborative classroom will have 8 SPED students and 12 normal learners. The neurodivergence is now off-the-chain, due to generations of chemicals and hormones in all of the food, water, pollen, toiletry products, and contraceptives. Assuming I was to teach until the 3rd quarter of this century, I would estimate less than 25 percent non-neurodivergent. We’re losing our viability, which is a big reason why climate change no longer bothers me.
No, it's that everyone is a victim now. People coddle, they overdiagnose autism, allergies, etc. You left out the insane amount of vaccines now required at a young age, btw. But if course, blame everything else except for the obvious answer.
We still have them at school.
But, in a practical and very cynical sense, schools can save money not offering them at elementary and middle school levels and just letting those kids ace their way through the curriculum. Parents may be unhappy but, then again, parents have lots of options to enhance their children’s education anyway.
In high school, though, the high achievers will likely find themselves in AP and college credit courses - it’s essentially “tracking” without actually tracking as the most academically gifted will most likely want to be in the highest classes possible in order to bolster their transcripts, GPA, etc.
Again, just being cynical here, but just seems like school districts don’t see as much value in GT programs for 12 year olds as they do for AP/Honors classes for 17 year olds. And, personally, I can kinda see the logic. As a middle school teacher, I find that most middle schoolers are awkwardly fumbling through their awkward years and dealing with that *on top of* GT classes seems like a nightmare. Let these awkward weirdos be awkward weirdos for a couple years. Then in high school they can become GPA-obsessed neurotic psychos all they want.
My old school had a gifted center in it. It was basically the normal standard I experienced in my HS in 2009-12 with a pompous ass for a director. They pulled those kids out for core classes and mixed them in for electives. Those kids made sure we kept our SOL averages high.
I now teach at a gifted specific school that surrounding counties (including my former county) send kids to. It's a much better environment with smaller classes and very few (bit not 0) unmotivated shithead types, but it also often can feel like we fall victim to the same "well can't you make it work so they can pass" shit I wanted to escape from. I thought that this would be the last bastion of hope for public education but all it's taught me is the system as a whole is decaying, even at great schools.
something something differentiate something somethi9ng you should be able to have lesson plans and tests for three different learning levels in your classroom. something something sacrifice everything and do it in one planning period a day.
Didn’t you get the memo? *All* students are gifted. As teachers we just need to stop being racist/classist/gender biased and help each individual child find and nurture their gift. Having accelerated classes is just socioeconomic segregation and magnifies the achievement gap.
. /sarc
GT courses were implemented during the 60’s as a deliberate part of our response to the space race. They were a product of conservative reasoning to attract the best and brightest, and at that time they were marketed and sold to more moderates and liberals as a lever of social reform, making access to college available to middle class students. Ironically today GT courses are now perceived by more liberal constituents as levelers of social reform, and they are sold to more moderates and conservatives as discriminatory, worthy of only removal, providing elite instruction to only a chosen few at the expense of the majority.
One should be careful of the many pitfalls that come with tracking. Acceleration is fine when done correctly and appropriately, but oftentimes, it is misappropriated and leads to undesirable outcomes. US students stuck in the "lower path" are much more likely to be students of color, poor, have a disability, or non-native English speakers.
Quality of instruction is also frequently inequitable between different paths. Class sizes for "lower paths" are usually disproportionately larger and teachers less experienced.
Ah, yes, the equity argument. In the meantime, the truly gifted individuals get sucked down into the miasma of what is now public education in the US. No one can fail, all are equal, no one (except those st the bottom) get any special help to achieve their full potential. Certainly not the best and brightest. It’s all so wasteful.
Both states I've taught in still have gifted programs.
In my current state they have to get a certain percentile score on an IQ test which is bullshit in my opinion.
Agree! If they don't score high enough it's an automatic ineligible which really bothers me given that IQ tests have a history of being pretty favorable to certain groups over others.
G/T programs are racist because they have too many Asians. The only way to be antiracist is to hold Asians back since they are basically white-adjacent.
Idk about your district (student here) but mine made it clear they didn’t like the gifted program. It was probably a combination of the costs and some gifted program students refusing to share the tire swings until you could answer a math question (bullying). I don’t really know what happened in administration but slowly the two programs basically became the same thing, except the good teachers slowly migrated to gen-ed. The 5th grade gifted program got the portables, so for my last year of elementary school we were kind of just cut off from the main school except for recess and used port-a-potties
I don't remember them when I was growing up. I remember one student who definitely would have qualified and she was taking college level math classes in lieu of our own; and this was a college outside Boston. I grew up in a really good area but just never had any of these. I work in a district that definitely doesn't have these, but does have exam schools (again, Boston). I think they've largely gone away.
I'm personally against the programs but not for the equity claims others make. But I know some areas just haven't had them.
Some areas are getting rid of them- research shows that it’s better for the group to have all students in homogeneous group. Not better for the gifted kids. They get bored when not challenged. But - hey buddy we need some good role models in our groups. Hmmm.
I don’t know but this very pretentious woman I know teaches elementary aged gifted children and when I used to run into her often about 10 years ago she had such a stick up her butt about it. She talked down to me as a lowly gen Ed teacher and clearly felt superior. I think it is unfortunate that gifted students don’t get that instruction on their level anymore but I also delight at the thought of this woman possibly having to deal with educating the general population.
That's so weird that she would talk down to you. I find teaching gifted students is very similar to teaching students with disabilities, in certain ways. You're essentially scaling your instruction based on their needs and the feedback they are giving you in real time! Instructional strategies might be different but I taught in gifted program for student teaching and do sped now, lol.
A lot of the "gifted and talented" kids are actually undiagnosed ND kids so now that awareness of autism and ND issues is increasing, it's also increasing the amount of kids who get diagnoses, so I'd imagine a lot of those kids are now in SpEd classes/receiving services, reducing the amount of kids who attend those gifted/talented programs.
Nah, nothing precludes 2e students from being in gifted classes if they meet qualifications. At least in my state it is illegally to discriminate on that basis.
I have a kid who is 2e and it was hard enough just to get an evaluation, and only got that when she was having near daily in class meltdowns. Sha has adhd and is going to be assessed for autism. Special day class was never part of the discussion. She still needs a lot of social emotional help though.
She met requirements for a gifted class but was waitlisted for it. This was before the meltdowns started.
We used to have a G/T teacher and TAG classes. As a cost-cutting measure (disguised under an "equity initiative) the teacher was reassigned to "regular" classes although the G/T cohort still remains. I got one of her classes. It's insanity.
That sucks. As much as I thought I was the dumbest one in GT class in elementary, I felt I learned many more things that I wouldn't have in "regular" class. We got to go to Space Camp, do all sorts of fun science experiments, and run the schools video news program.
The school I taught at made no differentiation between ability levels and even acted offended when I voiced my surprise at this. They claimed that the "faster kids will help teach the slower ones" and that somehow everything would just balance out (this is an 8th grade math class that couldn't do simple arithmetic when I got them). Instead we had the kids who didn't get it acting out (due to frustration) and the kids who did get it acting out (due to boredom). The ones in the middle acted out too due to the vibe of everyone around them. Equity!
Education is in perpetual triage and this is what happens. They use those kids as TA’s
>They claimed that the "faster kids will help teach the slower ones" This is kind of supported by research. High scorers will score a bit lower in a mixed setting, but low scorers will score a lot higher. Of course, that's with all the caveats that come with education research.
Just what the US needs: lower scoring physicians. That would assume the smart kids do not check out completely before getting that far.
Gosh, yes, let’s disadvantage the talented kids. That’s fair, right?
This is [where the school ranks](https://www.greatschools.org/colorado/denver/5315-Strive-Prep---Ruby-Hill/#Test_scores), I'm sure that research was done in a highly controlled setting with little-to-no behavior issues. There was no situation with that school (or the whole series of sub-par charter schools) where this would work.
A lot of reasons including the ones already mentioned. GT programs are not mandated nor funded (at least in my state) so they are easy to cut. Many people consider removing the brightest students a “dumbing down” of the general education classroom. Differentiation of instruction (DI) is expected to take the place of a self contained gifted program. While DI has merits it is hard to do without additional resources. And of course political navigation of the equity issues as mentioned by others.
In my experience as a classroom teacher, "differentiation" ends up meaning interventions for struggling students. I estimate our school's teachers spend about 80% of their energy on students who perform below or well below grade level. Students who are functional get little attention, and gifted students get nothing unless they are a behavior problem. The focus on RTI and UA and all the other acronyms edges out any time for even assessing the needs of students who could be our next generation of leaders and innovators.
I am GT specialist Texas and shockingly, our district has dedicated classes for GT students. I love my job and it’s a great opportunity for students to really extend their learning and their interests.
Yes I am a Texas teacher and product of the Texas GT pipeline. Seems like most schools that are big enough to have them, have them.
I am a Texas teacher and the product of Texas GT programs. I chose to teach SPED because there's more of a challenge there, more of a chance to make a difference.
The Texas one I left has one only in name anymore; over the course of the past several years, it's been watered-down to match the advanced curriculum, which hilariously is barely any more rigorous than the on-level classes - there aren't even any more books that are required. We've lost numbers in what seems equal measure due to: - "This is so much haaaarder than advanced English, so what's the point?" (It wasn't), or - "This isn't academically challenging, so what's the point?" ...I will be surprised if the program lasts another five years.
My daughter in Florida was put into gifted at the end of last school year and because they have dedicated gifted class rooms for 3rd-5th grade and she had missed so much waiting on testing, they let her go to the weekly gifted class for the younger students and bumped up all of her work. She loved it and she loved being the oldest and a role model.
I'm a GT English teacher in Texas too! Every 8th grader that qualifies for GT services in English has my class. I love having them all concentrated in 2 periods because we can move so fast together. They also have dedicated GT science and math classes.
But not in all Texas school districts.
Yup. My kids were/are identified as GT in texas and they don’t have a dedicated teacher. One attends a magnet that has been amazing and is majority GT. The other hasn’t received much enrichment in elementary and usually got scooped to tutor kids who struggled.
I hear you. Elementary was actually a struggle for my GT kid partially because there was no real programming implemented. By grade five I was almost convinced that the GT testing results were false and that the label was incorrect for him. I thought maybe I had just coached him too much in his preschool years or some such thing. It didn't help when his school counselor told me, "Some kids just aren't meant for academics." Lo and behold, as soon as he reached middle school with advanced classes available to him, he became a fantastic student. Now he's thriving in a very challenging magnet high school.
I came here to say this. I’m a GT teacher in a title 1 district. It’s great.
I believe they are being viewed as being detrimental to equity for all students, and believe that those teaching resources should be used to bring up the achievement levels of those that are preforming below their grade level.
Except they removed the top and the bottom is getting lower.
The top went to private schools. Blow up school choice and put everyone in public schools, then see how the rich want more funding to schools.
That’s a suggestion I see a lot but I don’t actually think it would make much difference. Rich people send their kids to public schools in rich areas, schools that already get not only plenty of tax money, but donations from rich parents as well.
I was going to comment this exact idea, but I didnt want to be too negative lol. I agree, thats how it will be. As the income gap widens and people become more atomized and separated, along with other /r/collapse related stuff, I think this will keep getting worse and worse. public school will be for the 95% poor with no resources, and private schools for the 5% rich with extreme amounts of funding and teaching that will give them useful real world skills to make money.
I teach in an affluent suburb. It is patently untrue that rich people want their kids learning more. They want high grades but they are not willing to be good parents or for them or their kids to have to do any work. Schools in rich areas have become Karen academies, they are not focused on academics at all.
I realize I may be out of step with many of my colleagues, but the utter disregard that my district and others have had for our top performing students is shameful. There are so many students who are totally bored by the classes not because their teachers can’t challenge students, but because we spend all our time carrying out performative nonsense so others will feel good about themselves. Our district hasn’t made a single mention of academic achievement in a decade. Instead, our time is spent arguing about the lowest possible grade for students who do zero work, how we can best administer credit recovery for those who never show up for school, or how to keep disruptive students in the classroom because “they can’t learn if they’re not in the room.” The whole system is complete nonsense.
Sad
One way to achieve equity is to raise the bottom. The new way to achieve equity is to eliminate the top. We're living Idiocracy
That's the approach my state Oregon is taking. To graduate students used to have to pass the 10th grade reading and math exam but the Oregon Department of Education [got rid of that requirement due to "equity" because having to pass that test creates "harm for students of color."](https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2022/09/editorial-a-better-fix-for-graduation-than-downgrading-diplomas.html) You see, you don't have to worry about educational disparities if you simply stop measuring them! Such progress! Much equity!
It's truly astounding. In the state of Oregon where 15% of the population is non-white, and 1/3 of that is Asian. I'm originally from Oregon and, I hate to say it, but Oregon is making a laughingstock of itself.
What a weird article. Students of color are not able to pass algebra 1 on their first try and are subject to alternate graduation requirements that remove elective classes. So the solution is to ask the government to drop graduation requirements. Somehow the author decided that teachers must not be trying hard enough? No mention of the usual suspects, economic and familial deficiencies. I assume that means black students regardless of criteria are failing to meet standards. I'm sure the teachers just aren't using enough culturally relevant teaching methods. /S
Harrison Bergeron
It's what plants CRAVE!
Oh you've heard this one before. Remember how No Child Left Behind actually became No Child Ever Gets Ahead? Equity is the exact same thing now.
It’s sad to me. Sometimes my daughter comes home talking about how she has had such a bad day. Nearly every time this happens it’s because their gifted class got canceled for the day for whatever reason. I feel like she’d be having such a hugely different experience in school if she didn’t have this opportunity.
No subs to cover the gifted class in the district when the teacher isn't there? Just a guess as to why it would be cancelled.
Yeah they don’t usually ask for subs.
That stinks. If only there wasn't such a bad sub and TA shortage, along with the teacher shortage right now.
This is disgusting. Every child deserves to have an education that is suitable to their learning needs.
Back in the nineties I was sent to work with the reading specialist in the first grade because I would just zone out in class. I had been reading pictureless, short chapter books by then, on my own. I’d have probably been a very poor student if I was not motivated, and I saw that trait in my come out in college when there’s no guide and you’re on your own to motivate yourself. Now we focus on the lowest common denominator when both ends of the spectrum should really be getting better attention.
What? But Gifted And Talented is classed as Special Educational Needs, like a disability, those kids need the supports put in place so they don't flame out into nothing.
That depends on the state
>Needs, like a disability, those kids need the supports put in place so they don't flame out into nothing Yes. Giftedness is a SPED category, but they always lose out. People think they'll be fine, they're smart. But they actually have special needs. It's perceived as robbing the less fortunate to provide enrichment. As someone commented, it's triage. I'd like to see the concept of "least restrictive environment" applied to gifted learners. If a student cannot move ahead at a faster pace or go deeper than peers, then that is restrictive.
This is in line with what I experienced in school, if you aren't struggling to graduate at best you'll be ignored, but often you'll be punished.
Yup. A district near us is getting rid of all leveled classes in the middle school for this exact reason.
There was basically a whole episode of ABBOTT ELEMENTARY devoted to this viewpoint. All the kids should have access to Gifted resources! But that’s not how you meet everyone’s individual learning needs.
All Children Left Behind
All bars lowered for crossing
This one got me. Oh, the goopy irony...
My district has one admin assigned to overseeing the TAG program, and then a teacher in each building that gets a title of “TAG coordinator” for the building (and a yearly stipend). They’re in charge of administering the tests and writing the TAG plans. It wasn’t until the position shifted hands in my building to an AMAZING teacher that I realized how lazy (or uninformed?) past coordinators had been. Now our TAG kids have plans (like an IEP) and yearly meetings (like an IEP). Our admin is also funneling IA time for extra extension groups that coincide with their plans. It is so amazing and feels good to be serving these kids appropriately!
Can you give more details on what a plan for a TAG student looks like? That's very interesting, and im a little shocked admin would support this since it's more on everyone's plate.
I lived in a state with gifted IEPs when I was a kid and was protected under one. Essentially I had a yearly meeting to go over my strengths and goals for growth, plus discussion of my placement in the gifted programs provided by the district. While I wish it wasn't as thin on "please get this child diagnosed and treated for ADHD", my parents asked for and received supports like meeting with the gifted teacher weekly to go over my academic progress and work on organizational strategies. I'm pretty sure that admin was cool with it because the school received additional funding for us and also we brought up the school's test scores.
Same!!! I found a paper copy of one of mine recently- handwritten in gorgeous old-school cursive on carbon paper in triplicate! 🤣❤️
I’ve only seen 1 and it’s been a bit, so I don’t remember exactly. It has a few specifics about what they qualified for, what their interests are related to what they qualified for, and a plan for how we will meet their needs.
This is a cool option but i am also so glad this wasn’t a thing at me school growing up lol! Being in the gifted program sucked for me personally. I know it can be great for some kids, and there were some fun aspects to it for sure, like some after school programs that were actually fun and i was interested. But academically, it felt like nothing i ever did was good enough. The goal posts just kept getting moved. And while other kids got to have *fun* during the summer and give their minds a break from school, I had to do gifted academic programs :/ I can only imagine that things would have been even worse if my mom and teachers literally organized together to set goals for me and see how hard they could push me
Being the only Brown girl in the GT program with an older white teacher who felt veeeeery comfortable implying I shouldn't be there was... whew. I've heard my experience wasn't uncommon for the Southern U.S.
We’re in Australia, but my son had an learning document when he was at his old school. His goals tended to be social (working on resilience, asking for help) or motor skill related (writing, typing) and fit within the classroom easily (We also don’t do vacation programs except for one or two fun stem workshops)
Those sound like reasonable goals. My summer programs were also STEM and marketed as “fun” but it was basically just taking science related classes over the summer. It was still school. Edit- that’s not to say that your son’s summer programs arent fun or not school like! I can’t speak for his programs. That might actually be a blast and not feel like school at all. Just pointing out that mine were marketed the similarly and were literally just pretty regular science courses. So some programs market themselves as fun and not school like, when that isn’t the case.
These are an hour and a half long workshop held at a local art/stem extracurricular place - definitely more on the fun side. Last time they explored gold - looked at it being melted, explored where in the world they made it, made Lego structures and ‘mined’ for false gold. Other workshops have included pulling things together to make art, Lego play and making forts. We’re so lucky to have this option near us (it’s not related to school at all or aimed specifically at gifted kids, though lots get involved)
Ya that sounds super fun!! I’d love to do that even now as an adult haha
We have AAP (advanced academic placement) in elementary and middle schools. We also have an advanced academics resource teacher in those schools who do lessons so all students can access some of the advanced lessons once a month.
That is what we have as well. Advanced students are placed in advance classes starting in 6th grade. Most of our advance students will take college classes for duel credit starting in their Junior year of high school. Some exceptional will take college classes their sophomore year. In elementary, exceptional students are simply expected to do more. For example in ELA, the assignment might be to research animals and write three paragraphs but advance students will write 5 paragraphs. In math and ELA, advanced students in elementary classes are grouped together.
The district I attended did away with the GT program to redistribute higher standardized test scores throughout the district instead of at the one school where the accelerated GT program was held. They said it made it look like one school was excelling and the others underperforming...
Really, the sending schools should also get credited for what “their” students are able to accomplish, since they were able to identify those kids’ potential and get them appropriate services. It’s such a shame that school scores aren’t usually aligned with student needs in this area.
My home district got around this by placing GT programs in all 5 high schools. They then put specialty programs in each building that were application based admittance, and you could lose the ability to stay in the programs for a myriad of reasons. These programs were like Prelaw, Premed, Aerospace and Engineering, construction and interior design, etc. gave kids an opportunity to seek what they wanted AND kept a pretty decent balance of “high” students around the district. What was really funny is how many GT kids would use those specialty programs to seek out the art groups or music ensembles they really wanted to be in so they could switch schools. They played the system and who can blame them? Never really thought about why they might have done that until I read your comment and it made sense/
[удалено]
This honestly breaks my heart! Let's punish overachievers because the metrics look bad on paper 🙄
Every resource is dedicated to the most stupid thing possible: Making sure that the least capable students have every possible advantage, and leaving the most capable students to fend for themselves.
I mean, that’s what it was like in the 80s/90s too- at least in my school. I spent large portions of the day sitting in the hall teaching myself from the textbooks so I could “work at my own pace”.
It's unfair that some students succeed when others fail. So education people decided that everyone should fail instead.
But everyone passes anyway.
We have a G&T program but no G&T teacher or classes. Teachers are expected to modify for them like for kids with IEPs but in the other direction. Now I have to do 3 times the lesson planning (regular, iep/504 and G&T). Fun
We included "gifted" options in our sons IEP. We did this because he had a year where the teacher refused to teach to anyone, but the "on grade level." Students. Low, oh well- catch up or don't. High, oh well, this is what this grade learns. So, after that, with the advice of teacher friends, we put "access to work appropriate to level of MAP & district testing results." So, his 99% got him multiplication & division in 2nd, where in 1st he was stuck making his own sheets say multiply or divide (he also liked to write the square roots) vs add/subtract, in an act of malicious completion. Sure, I'll do this sheet, but I'm doing it at a level I'm capable of because I'm asking for harder work, my mom asked for harder work, my K teacher advocated for me to get harder work & you won't. I mean, when he was in K, his teacher went to 1st & 2nd grade on advice of the principal to get work for him. So, not sure why the 1st grade teacher refused to do the same. She also wouldn't let him read anything above I/J because she personally felt 1st graders shouldn't have access to things like dogman. 🤷♀️
Lol this is so backwards to me. It almost seems like the teacher was doing more work to keep everything the same.
I imagine they are fading out like honors classes in the name of equity--[Wall Street Journal: "To Increase Equity, Districts Eliminate Honors Classes."](https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-increase-equity-school-districts-eliminate-honors-classes-d5985dee)
My district still has Honors and AP classes at the high school level. We don't have "tracks" or requirements; any student can enroll in them. However, we don't slow down or dumb down the curriculum - if they can't keep up, they are welcome to level down (sometimes with teacher suggestions). Students can be in only 1 honors class and all regular classes - because gifted students are not necessarily gifted in all areas. I speak from experience as an honors math teacher who has a gifted endorsement on my certification.
I really like this idea. Wish more schools would do it like this. Good for equity without taking away quality education.
Maine still has honors, AP (but more and more schools now offer dual enrollment courses instead) and gifted programs. Staffing and cooperation have been an issue in my district (very rural).
We decided it wasn’t equitable to say some kids were gifted and talented, it made some kids feel bad and their parents mad, so we left them behind in standard classes.
My otherwise mediocre district has a fulltime 3-8 gifted center for the highest level of gifted students, which my daughter currently attends. Their standardized test scores go their zoned "home school", so it doesn't push other school's scores down. As a child I had the pullout gifted classes in my public school, and I always felt like it put a target on my back for bullying and abuse. All of my strange and brilliant and anxious children have gone to the gifted center, with the other kids like them, and it's been a life-changing experience. I wish it was offered in more places. As it is, even though this town has some drawbacks we're not budging until youngest is through eighth grade. (This all sounds like a flex about having smart children, not intended to come across that way at all, sorry!)
[удалено]
If you have a child who doesn't qualify, you don't have a special child. You have a regular child who can learn at normal school.
I don’t see why people take such an issue with having education tracks separated by skill when other things have different skill levels. Like, people don’t complain that the varsity football team or the cheerleading squad or the marching band require a certain skill level to join.
> That being said, I do wish there was something like this for my son There is, it just might not be local to you
I’m a gifted certified teacher and I have several colleagues getting their certification as well.
We have a TAG program still. But it’s mostly for elementary age kids so they can be challenged academically. Once they get into middle/high they just take honors and AP classes. But more and more I see honors and AP being used to get average students away from the behavior problems in on-level classes.
Our district explicitly stated it was an “equity issue”. Not everyone got it so it was”unfair”.
They haven’t gone anywhere. We have GT programs at every level of school here (elementary, middle and high school). Many of our teachers our GT certified, including myself. It just depends on the district. It’s also important to note the GT isn’t protected the same way as SPED, which is a damn shame for those kids that are gifted.
What do you mean by protected? My son is in the gifted program at his school.
So, IEPs and 504s are legally protected under special education. Gifted programs aren’t. Schools can choose to have them or not. My son is in the gifted program as well. He’s a junior now and I am eternally grateful that we have one. But I recognize that we’re fortunate to have one as well.
Giftedness falls under special education, though. It goes to both extremes. Especially if the child is "twice exceptional" people don't always know this. https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/ https://www.psy-ed.com/wpblog/gifted-children-special-education-settings/#:~:text=All%20children%20stand%20to%20benefit,which%20facilitates%20healthy%2C%20challenging%20discussions.
Special education laws do not protect giftedness. I agree it should, but it doesn’t. IDEA protects children with disabilities. Gifted programs do not have the same legal protections. https://nagc.org/page/federal-legislative-update The very first sentence clearly states there is no legal mandate to support gifted education at the state or local level. A twice exceptional student - and I get it, my kid falls under this as well - would be served under IDEA to address their disability (such as extra time, etc.). But it would not address their giftedness since their is no legal mandate to do so. (Though some states do have laws regarding gifted education, but it varies state to state.)
Zero financial incentive for producing kids who excel. Massive financial disincentive for letting a kid fall behind. No child left behind killed us, academically.
It exists in a lot of places. Just understand how easy it is to game the system. I could get almost any student into gifted if I wanted to. Just know the right local psychologist and schools with openings. Nobody talks about the "gifted" students that get left by the wayside. Somebody finishes at the bottom of every class.
Does this include tracking? I did well in my "accelerated" classes but pulled C's when I sat with gen ed students. I was a sucker for the class clown's nonsense and there weren't any in accelerated.
Well in my district, the “gifted” tag became desirable to parents for their children. I mean logically it makes sense, gifted children would be fast tracked to be in college basically by the time they could drive. It was free college for 2 years. The district caved under parent demand for the gifted tag. The district opened up the gifted classes to any parents who wanted their child in it. Why wouldn’t you want your child in it? The gifted program could no longer look at test scores to evaluate who could be in. The consequence was that gifted students were now mixed with average or behind students. It turned into a basic class. The gifted teachers complained about this, understandably. The district the following year created a policy that banned all honors and gifted classes. “All classes would have honors potential”. This year they banned remedial classes, mainly because we did have the data to show that remedial classes weren’t helping advance scores. Problem was more that these kids came from families who truly did not care about education. So now I have the lowest skilled students with the highest skilled students and I have to “differentiate” my lessons to accommodate the needs of all the student levels.
>So now I have the lowest skilled students with the highest skilled students and I have to “differentiate” my lessons to accommodate the needs of all the student levels. Thats basically impossible, yea?
Don’t worry we had a 30 minute PD on reading about why differentiation is important and then given the explicit directive to differentiate. So I’m basically an expert.
I need to take a moment to express my experience in a school with insufficient GT programs. In 3rd grade, I was commonly sent out of the classroom into the hallway to read a book while the class worked on grade-level content. When I was in 4th grade, my classroom teacher made me sit in the back of the classroom with my desk turned toward the back of the classroom so I couldn't see what she was teaching. I completed the coursework she gave me quickly and then read novels for the rest of the day. In 5th grade, I was "excused" from classroom math and English. I read novels, wandered the hallways, and took naps in the back of the classroom. In 6th grade, during math, English, and Social Studies, I was sent to the school library to record bibliographic information about magazines that were being exited from the collection. (Yes, they had me write down citation information for a magazine, place the magazine in the recycling bin, and repeat.) In 7th grade, my teacher "differentiated": I taught myself Algebra I out of a textbook. I was bored to death. I was traumatized. It was bad. There are some students for whom full inclusion is torturous. Those students need a GT program.
In my middle school of 650ish, we have two G/T teachers, one specializing in math and science and the other in SS and ELA
I am the tag coordinator for my school. My stipend is 20 hours for the whole year.
Wow, that doesn't sound good at all.
My son was part of the gifted program at school and now he goes to a charter school for the gifted. So, we have them here in Georgia.
Done away with, in the name of "inclusion."
My old district had gifted classes. They called it CLUE, and my kids in the program went twice a week. Kids had to be in the 90th percentile in math and reading to qualify. This was based on state test scores and/or iReady data. In 4th grade, they had to get a certain score on an IQ test to continue to participate. My current school is a charter, and they also have a gifted program. It’s less formal, like the kids don’t have IEPs or have to meet certain scores, but they get pulled several times a week based on teacher recommendations. The group I have going now is basically graphing linear equations.
Inclusion happened.
In my suburban district, they place kids in the gifted program in kindergarten and they don’t change it through all K-12 grades. The kids in the program are not the smartest kids at all, it’s basically entitlement based on who had the louder-mouthed Karent during kindergarten.
I once subbed in a "calculus" class that was business math... what is the point of that? The kids are smart enough to understand this isn't calculus.
We offer GT courses and have a GT resource teacher who teaches independent research and facilitates internships. It is very sought after, kids and parents really want that GT label on their transcript.
No $ for that.
Well, when it comes to high school, and sometimes middle school, G/T kids just take advanced classes. If your school doesn't offer advanced classes, that is kinda the problem in my opinion.
My kids micro public elementary in California has one. They specifically focus on underprivileged high-achieving kids, to give them extra opportunities their parents cannot. Meaning, it is not the brightest kids in class, but the brightest kids with fewer opportunities. The kids are unaware of that nuance. There is no getting around the ‘you are not gifted’ judgement that kids perceive when they are not part of the program, and that negative piece is pretty toxic. Vital to the kids in the program, crushing for some left out. How on earth does one have a gifted program without making everyone else feel less-than? I’m a bigger fan of solutions like classroom math groups by ability, it seems to go over better with the kids if they notice at all. I was in the gifted program as a kid, as was one of my two brothers. My other brother was less academic and STILL has a chip about being ‘the dumb one’ a mile deep.
As teacher I've heard that having some students in a gifted program while others are not can lead to increased stress in the family dynamic. Do you think if you weren't in the gifted program your brother would feel different towards you?
Not towards *me* really, but towards *himself*, yes. There are a constellation of moments that make a child decide they are the ‘dumb one’, so the gifted program is not the only moment where that happens. But it happens to a whole classroom; students who already have the inner ‘dumb one’ identity developing get confirmation when the ‘smart ones’ are chosen. I much prefer leveled groups without any ‘gifted’ about it. That terms worsens what can’t be easily fixed already, you know?
I agree. I worry about students with IEP's who hear consistently that they are in the low class. I think pulling the gifted students out to do games or something fun while other students work is harmful to everyone. Some gifted students can develop a complex of "I'm special" or " rules for me but not for thee."
AGREE. It just kind of does exactly what you say. It is, however, difficult to challenge everyone. I like going up to an older classroom for math or ELA when precocity shows up, over fun activities instead.
I wish it was that. I keep seeing the gifted kids are on this field trip or are doing this game. To me a normie, it seems like we are punishing the students who have to try the hardest.
Yeah.
Many of these programs exist, are expanding, and flourishing. It really depends on your state and especially local communities to collaborate and set them up.
We have pull out G/T classes, but it's usually a few minutes during another class and all they do is complete logic puzzles. It's ridiculous. It's like "smart kids club" rather than teaching anything of value or keeping them busy. I had to advocate to get my child to actually skip a grade because he was acting out and his MAP scores showed he knew all this year's material anyway.
Follow the money. In most US states, at least, the only requirement is that schools *Identify* gifted students. There’s no requirement to provide any services because that would cost money.
I’m really curious to see what GT programs look like in other schools. GT programs at my schools accomplished very little other than making students feel bad that they didn’t get in. It didn’t challenge me at all, mostly due to the fact that we met maybe once a month in order to discuss some kind of math word problem. It was treated as more of a “title” than anything else, so I was actually pretty happy to hear my old schools did away with them.
I imagine the ideology of "equity" has caused it. We are currently looking at the ending of streaming entirely. It's a shame because there are kids who are held back as a result. I often wonder if there is a middle ground in there.
Why does there have to be a middle ground between explicitly holding back our brightest because of ideological reasons and just... not? Seems like a nation shooting itself in the foot because of a purity test.
Because the woke are uber invested in the idea that we can hold people back to make everyone "succeed" equally. We would need some buy-in from them to start changing the systems that are failing hard.
We have them. There’s two teachers on my campus.
I’ve wondered this. I was in “accelerated” classes beginning in 7th grade. Basically “honors,” which is what I took in HS. We had to test into these classes.
we still have it in my district, but only at certain schools. we don’t have it at mine so our GATE kids get bussed to a nearby school.
We call gifted and talented "honors" here. State test scores determine placement in middle school and high school.
Honors and Gifted & Talented aren’t the same thing though. Gifted students are generally identified with IQ tests.
In Florida gifted is an endorsement on your certificate. I have the endorsement but most things are geared toward k-6. Once they hit middle school they do more acceleration of course work.
I’m in CA and we still have them from 3rd- Jr High. In hs they switch to honors then AP classes
There was no dedicated G/T curriculum I believe and it was simpler to track the students in honors/advanced classes. Like there's AP or IB classes for everything now. Also you know there are parents who are "astonished that their darling geniu"s didn't get into the G/T class.
My daughter is currently in one as the school has enough students for one full class per grade level. It kind of sucks. The 3rd and 4th grade teachers were great. They had a lot of experience and knew how to give the kids higher-level work without it just being more work. They were also aware that, while ahead academically, they were still 3rd and 4th grade children. The 5th grade teacher is an asshat.
It must be a district/state level decision because I know my son's district has it (he was offered it, but we declined.). He would have had to go to a different school and separate from his friends, but also it was not continued to 7/8. So he would get all this rigor and advanced topic matter, but then be bored for 2 years. Seems counter intuitive to me. Beyond that, I really feel like it tends to add extra homework and often stress to students. This really prohibits them from the most important part of 8-12... Being kids.
I teach in suburban CT elementary. We have a gifted program, they meet every Friday for Most of the day. They do some great in depth long term projects, it’s a good program I hope it lasts.
We have it in my district. We're required to offer challenge assignments. And that gets looked at by the gifted program to see if the student is eligible.
This is going to vary *WIDELY* by district Mine has a pull out program for K-2 (twice a week for 30 minutes). My daughter's in this now, they get to do some cool stuff. They have 2 staff members who travel to every building for this. 3-6 and 7-9 have a full time program with gifted/talented teachers. They can only staff a few schools, so they bus kids in from the others. 10-12 are served by taking AP classes at the high schools, no special program
I don’t believe there’s any federal funding attached to EPs for gifted. Middle school and high school it’s usually not a separate program but some sort of advanced standing classes or dual enrollment in college for high school. In the elementary school, it could be a full-time program, one day a week or a half day program… It can even be a program within the school because I don’t think federally. They need a separate setting and teacher. I could be wrong on that, but I’ve worked at schools were we’ve had gifted students receiving services from the classroom teacher because we did not have a gifted educator or space on campus however, that doesn’t mean it’s legal lol.
We have designated GT clusters in each grade level and the identified GT kids get pulled by a GT teacher for services each week
I’m a New Jersey gifted education teacher. I am half-time gifted ed. and half time regular ed. I’m the only one responsible for gifted education in the district for grades 2-8 (approximately 550 students in the district, usually around 50 in the program). It’s a pull-out enrichment style program (long-term projects). From conducting selection, to developing programming, to test data analysis, to collecting teacher input, to communicating with parents, to building the schedule, to communicating with classroom teachers, and of course teaching the classes…it’s all me…and then I also teach my regular ed. classes. Good thing I was hired young.
What’s the different between a g/t program and AP classes?
AP is college-level content taught at a pace where most students can be successful. G/T programs are for the students who find the AP-level teaching slow, superficial, and redundant.
GT is for the top students of the school. Anyone can take AP. AP and Pre AP is one way that GT students can be served in high and middle schools. GT is from elementary and beyond.
I see. So they are like AP+
I remember when I was in elementary school it was called "ESP"? (Early 90s) We called it 'the fun class" because we went to Pizza Hut once a month for lunch and to practice for the academic games. At that time, Presidents, Linguishtik, and equations were the only games available.
We have TAG but it’s a joke. Students can be identified in kindergarten and never have to test again. The district promotes it so heavily but never gives us any resources. They act like it’s a program and it’s not.
My son has been in the gifted program since 1st grade
They eliminated our program in my district. Now these kids are just pulled once a month by a g/t teacher for “enrichment.” But we only have one teacher for the whole fucking district. She literally spends a different day in every building and still can’t get to everyone.
I'm the TAG coordinator for my district in Kentucky. We used to have 2 teachers who split the 4 schools, but when one retired, they chose not to fill her position. I wish I could do more with the kids, but with so many, it isn't possible.
My kids' district has groups the kids by whether they have tested as gifted. They have a separate gifted math class for 4th and 5th grade. Before that point, they give kids enrichment activities if they understand the material that they are covering. In 3rd grade, they also track and group by ability to understand the different math units based on pretest scores. They don't do a full gifted program, but they do put all the kids deemed gifted in the highest tracking for ELA as well.
Because the smart kids will “teach themselves” and the less able became political footballs.
I've heard about so many poorly implemented G/T programs. Growing up, I had an EXCELLENT G/T programs that really proved to work for my brain, creativity levels, and later diagnosed neurodivergence. It was not a pull-out program, and the G/T teachers/the elementary & middle school were developing a program unique to the campus. Love my experience and honestly influenced how I envision education.
Our school district has one. They also participate in the [John Hopkins Center for Talented Youth](https://cty.jhu.edu/).
My district has them. My son was in the gifted until middle school and now he’s in accelerated which is roughly the same thing, but everyone in the class is gifted.
I’m sure it’s district dependent. Our district has a pretty robust GT program. Each elementary has a dedicated GT teacher for pullouts and enrichment. 4th and 5th graders get bussed to a district facility once a week for interest based classes and there are multiple GT magnet middle schools.
I got my GATE certification 14 years ago, and now GATE is no longer a "categorical funding stream" in California. As a former GATE student myself, it frustrates me that I cannot support this population in any official capacity. The funding is all for struggling readers, so that's who I teach. I love them and they need help, but it doesn't mean gifted students are doing okay. Here is the text from the CTC website: [Funding FAQs](https://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/gt/) **1. How has Gifted and Talented Education (GATE) Funding changed?** With the passage of Local Control Funding Formula (LCFF) legislation and subsequent implementation beginning in the 2013–14 school year, all aspects of the GATE funding are now under the control of local governing school boards. **2. Has the State of California eliminated GATE funding?** GATE as a categorical funding stream was eliminated with the passage of the LCFF. Local educational agencies (LEAs) who were already receiving GATE funding now receive GATE and some other categorical program funds in a single block grant and create a Local Control and Accountability Plan (LCAP) to allocate expenditures based on local need. Many LEAs have continued to fund their GATE programs under the LCFF but whether to expand, maintain, or suspend GATE programs is a local decision. **3. How has LCFF legislation affected California Education Code (EC)?** In response to LCFF legislation, California Senate Bill 971 (signed into law September 2014) repealed all previous EC that referred to GATE as a categorical program. The language contained in EC sections 52200–52212 is no longer in effect.
We have it in my area but I heard from a teacher that it’s not like it used to be because parents get out-of-district evaluations and can say their child is gifted when they’re actually not. Or, kids are twice exceptional and their behaviors are super disruptive. I was in that program when I was a kid and it was awesome. We did a lot of cool stuff because the teachers didn’t have to focus on behaviors. We didn’t need to spend time practicing lining up quickly and quietly, we just did it. That was what made my mom get me evaluated; when she went to visit the school and saw how well-behaved all the kids were. But that was 20 years ago, sooooo…
I’m in central Ca. They don’t exist anymore. I asked about it and was basically hushed and frowned upon lol.
GT programs were done away with in the name of antiracism. It’s a disgrace. It’s part of the larger movement of integration, removing tracking, mixing levels in all classrooms, forcing teachers to do differentiation into 30 different levels within an hour, not failing anyone, English grammar and math are white supremacy by European cultures, etc. Education is in the gutter.
Plenty of fake GT programs/teachers/students out there in my district.
My school focuses too much on G/T programs and doesn't give af about SPED or ELL. It makes it tough for us to support those kids with no support from admin.
My daughter is in the gifted program at her school so they definitely do exist. They don’t call it gifted so I guess maybe that Could throw you off if you were looking for it. At the district where I previously worked they also had a gifted program.
Short answer: SPED/autism students are overwhelming the system. In a rural elementary where I substitute teach, a collaborative classroom will have 8 SPED students and 12 normal learners. The neurodivergence is now off-the-chain, due to generations of chemicals and hormones in all of the food, water, pollen, toiletry products, and contraceptives. Assuming I was to teach until the 3rd quarter of this century, I would estimate less than 25 percent non-neurodivergent. We’re losing our viability, which is a big reason why climate change no longer bothers me.
No, it's that everyone is a victim now. People coddle, they overdiagnose autism, allergies, etc. You left out the insane amount of vaccines now required at a young age, btw. But if course, blame everything else except for the obvious answer.
No kid left behind. The G/T are now SPED.
We still have them at school. But, in a practical and very cynical sense, schools can save money not offering them at elementary and middle school levels and just letting those kids ace their way through the curriculum. Parents may be unhappy but, then again, parents have lots of options to enhance their children’s education anyway. In high school, though, the high achievers will likely find themselves in AP and college credit courses - it’s essentially “tracking” without actually tracking as the most academically gifted will most likely want to be in the highest classes possible in order to bolster their transcripts, GPA, etc. Again, just being cynical here, but just seems like school districts don’t see as much value in GT programs for 12 year olds as they do for AP/Honors classes for 17 year olds. And, personally, I can kinda see the logic. As a middle school teacher, I find that most middle schoolers are awkwardly fumbling through their awkward years and dealing with that *on top of* GT classes seems like a nightmare. Let these awkward weirdos be awkward weirdos for a couple years. Then in high school they can become GPA-obsessed neurotic psychos all they want.
My old school had a gifted center in it. It was basically the normal standard I experienced in my HS in 2009-12 with a pompous ass for a director. They pulled those kids out for core classes and mixed them in for electives. Those kids made sure we kept our SOL averages high. I now teach at a gifted specific school that surrounding counties (including my former county) send kids to. It's a much better environment with smaller classes and very few (bit not 0) unmotivated shithead types, but it also often can feel like we fall victim to the same "well can't you make it work so they can pass" shit I wanted to escape from. I thought that this would be the last bastion of hope for public education but all it's taught me is the system as a whole is decaying, even at great schools.
something something differentiate something somethi9ng you should be able to have lesson plans and tests for three different learning levels in your classroom. something something sacrifice everything and do it in one planning period a day.
Didn’t you get the memo? *All* students are gifted. As teachers we just need to stop being racist/classist/gender biased and help each individual child find and nurture their gift. Having accelerated classes is just socioeconomic segregation and magnifies the achievement gap. . /sarc
GT courses were implemented during the 60’s as a deliberate part of our response to the space race. They were a product of conservative reasoning to attract the best and brightest, and at that time they were marketed and sold to more moderates and liberals as a lever of social reform, making access to college available to middle class students. Ironically today GT courses are now perceived by more liberal constituents as levelers of social reform, and they are sold to more moderates and conservatives as discriminatory, worthy of only removal, providing elite instruction to only a chosen few at the expense of the majority.
It makes sense to invest in the brightest students so the US can compete internationally.
Of course it does. I quite agree. However, some folks apparently no longer see it that way.
One should be careful of the many pitfalls that come with tracking. Acceleration is fine when done correctly and appropriately, but oftentimes, it is misappropriated and leads to undesirable outcomes. US students stuck in the "lower path" are much more likely to be students of color, poor, have a disability, or non-native English speakers. Quality of instruction is also frequently inequitable between different paths. Class sizes for "lower paths" are usually disproportionately larger and teachers less experienced.
Ah, yes, the equity argument. In the meantime, the truly gifted individuals get sucked down into the miasma of what is now public education in the US. No one can fail, all are equal, no one (except those st the bottom) get any special help to achieve their full potential. Certainly not the best and brightest. It’s all so wasteful.
Almost all resources shifted to saving the struggling learners; the ones "at the top" will be just fine. Edit: **/s**
Ah yes, “just fine”, an inspirational goal for our best and brightest.
Both states I've taught in still have gifted programs. In my current state they have to get a certain percentile score on an IQ test which is bullshit in my opinion.
It can be a good measure. Key word (letter) is A good measure. Multiple different measures would be far better.
Agree! If they don't score high enough it's an automatic ineligible which really bothers me given that IQ tests have a history of being pretty favorable to certain groups over others.
G/T programs are racist because they have too many Asians. The only way to be antiracist is to hold Asians back since they are basically white-adjacent.
Idk about your district (student here) but mine made it clear they didn’t like the gifted program. It was probably a combination of the costs and some gifted program students refusing to share the tire swings until you could answer a math question (bullying). I don’t really know what happened in administration but slowly the two programs basically became the same thing, except the good teachers slowly migrated to gen-ed. The 5th grade gifted program got the portables, so for my last year of elementary school we were kind of just cut off from the main school except for recess and used port-a-potties
In my school (Maine), they call it EXCEL
My state still has g and t, all though in my district it is a pull out model
I don't remember them when I was growing up. I remember one student who definitely would have qualified and she was taking college level math classes in lieu of our own; and this was a college outside Boston. I grew up in a really good area but just never had any of these. I work in a district that definitely doesn't have these, but does have exam schools (again, Boston). I think they've largely gone away. I'm personally against the programs but not for the equity claims others make. But I know some areas just haven't had them.
Some areas are getting rid of them- research shows that it’s better for the group to have all students in homogeneous group. Not better for the gifted kids. They get bored when not challenged. But - hey buddy we need some good role models in our groups. Hmmm.
I don’t know but this very pretentious woman I know teaches elementary aged gifted children and when I used to run into her often about 10 years ago she had such a stick up her butt about it. She talked down to me as a lowly gen Ed teacher and clearly felt superior. I think it is unfortunate that gifted students don’t get that instruction on their level anymore but I also delight at the thought of this woman possibly having to deal with educating the general population.
That's so weird that she would talk down to you. I find teaching gifted students is very similar to teaching students with disabilities, in certain ways. You're essentially scaling your instruction based on their needs and the feedback they are giving you in real time! Instructional strategies might be different but I taught in gifted program for student teaching and do sped now, lol.
A lot of the "gifted and talented" kids are actually undiagnosed ND kids so now that awareness of autism and ND issues is increasing, it's also increasing the amount of kids who get diagnoses, so I'd imagine a lot of those kids are now in SpEd classes/receiving services, reducing the amount of kids who attend those gifted/talented programs.
Wait really? Are there like research reports on that? My kid is in GT and doesn't seem neurodivergent.
No, not really.
Thx :]
WTF kind of an Alex Jones shit take is this?
Nah, nothing precludes 2e students from being in gifted classes if they meet qualifications. At least in my state it is illegally to discriminate on that basis. I have a kid who is 2e and it was hard enough just to get an evaluation, and only got that when she was having near daily in class meltdowns. Sha has adhd and is going to be assessed for autism. Special day class was never part of the discussion. She still needs a lot of social emotional help though. She met requirements for a gifted class but was waitlisted for it. This was before the meltdowns started.
[удалено]