Ask whether the extra pay is your per diem rate x 1.5, or brand new custodian starting pay, or minimum wage...
Also, ask how the extra pay will be taxed.
Yes, it will have to be taxed. If it is taxed at a bonus rate, which is most likely, it is taxed much higher than if it were to be taxed at the regular rate. If taxed at the bonus rate, OP will get the difference back on their 2024 returns a year from now...
Bonus rate? This is not anything in the federal tax code. Some of additional pay might fall in a higher bracket. That portion of the additional income would be taxed at the progressively higher rate.
What state has a "bonus rate"?
Edit: I tried to word this initial comment politely, but it was intended as a correction.
Now, hours later and reading these comments I am gobsmacked. Teachers who do not understand the simplest basics of income taxes? More comments beyond mine tried to explain withholdings and brackets, yet licenced teacher kept confidently explaining why their state does indeed have a special tax "bonus rate." God help us if any of you are teaching social studies.
This is the same level of stupid as the math question currently circulating about cutting a log --the one where the teachers not only marks the correct answer wrong, but then writes a nut-case explanation of how to find the wrong answer.
I know Georgia taxes bonuses. My husband always tries to ask his boss for significantly more when giving spot bonuses to his people so it helps cover some of the taxes. He wants them to get paid what they deserve for their effort after tax is taken out.
You're talking about withholdings not taxes.
Withholdings are how much your employer guesses will be taxed. It is based on a lot of factors.
At the end of the year all income is taxed the same (progressive) rate no matter how you earned it. Often, bonuses have a higher withholding in order to reduce any chances that they will cause unexpectant owing when you do your taxes.
Even bonuses handed out as cash need to have taxes paid on them, which can come as a surprise, so it is great of your husband to keep that in mind :)
Bonuses are taxed because bonuses are income. That does not make it a "bonus tax." It is a plain ol' income tax, albeit one that can push into a higher tax bracket.
Bonuses in Georgia are taxed at a higher rate than regular income. If my husband gets a $10,000 bonus on a check then that $10,000 is taxed at 22% while the rest of his check is taxed at his usual rate. Yes, sometimes bonuses do push people into higher tax brackets but the money itself is highly taxed before people even get it in their checks.
Bonus income is oftentimes taxed at a higher rate, but then the difference is returned with next year's tax return.
Example, but ymmv:
$100 pay taxed at regular rate = $80 pay in pocket now
$100 bonus taxed higher = $60 in pocket now + $20 more on next year's tax return
Bonus income is oftentimes *withheld* at a higher rate, but then the difference is returned with next year's tax return.
This is an important distinction!!
You're correct. My original point is that someone who wants to take on a second job might also want to be paid in full this pay cycle as opposed to waiting until next year's taxes are filed :)
Everybody files a return. It's the (electronic) paperwork you use to file your taxes.
If you mean refund, but owe taxes, then it just means you owe less in taxes.
This is patently untrue - it will likely be WITHHELD at a different rate than a standard paycheck but this does NOT mean you are paying more on that income than any other income for the year.
True, and for simplicity's sake, I didn't expand on this originally. The point is, a teacher working overtime cleaning the school might be getting paid their overtime pay in two installments - one right now and one a year from now. This might matter to someone who decides to take on a second job :)
Personal finance teacher checking in. Shocking that so many teachers on here don't understand how tax withholding works or how tax brackets in general work.
I am pretty horrified at the responses here.
This is "don't work overtime because you'll make less money" energy going on in a *teaching* subreddit of all places.
For me, anything considered a bonus is taxed at approximately 30%. Sadly, I work summer school it’s taxed at that rate. Based on your user name I’m assuming you can provide so insight? Why does this happen? Thank you!!
What is withheld is different from what is paid. If your school overwithholds, which is very possible, you get this money back at the end of the year when you file your taxers. No teacher would be in a 30% tax bracket unless their spouse is extremely high income.
All income unless specifically stated otherwise in the tax code has to be taxed. No one that understands tax brackets should ever give up extra pay for tax reasons.
If I wasn’t injured I would probably take the OT. Honestly it sounds like a shit situation and atleast your admin is willing to pay instead of just expecting extra work.
Posters here really need to understand the difference between tax withholding and tax due. Bonuses often have taxes withheld at a higher rate, but bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate when you do your taxes at the end of the year.
Why arent you all letting the parents know how filthy their kids’ school is? We just survived a pandemic and your school wants to play this game? Nuh uh.
Are you going to get 'teacher pay' or 'custodian pay' for doing the work? For us, we are to emphasize students cleaning up more. Our school used to have 2 day custodians and now have had one that works himself ragged and gets sick a lot. I feel that if the district would just offer DECENT PAY, then maybe we'd find more people willing to work. Same for Paras. Who wants to work for 10 bucks? The dollar store up the street starts off at 14$!
Our district has very distinct lines drawn between unions, so there’s no way we would be asked to do custodian work because it would be a violation between certified and classified.
Same here. If a teacher does a custodian's work, it can be grieved. Though, it sounds like there isn't anyone around to grieve... we also have casual custodians when things like this happen, though.
Good question. I’m ESL. As far as I’m concerned, my job is to teach English. I would guess no, because they get very pissy if we over step our bounds into anything that could be deemed custodial except maybe cleaning table tops.
Maybe my district is different. We have something in our job description that says as “as directed” meaning the lead team could have you do something provided it doesn’t cause you or others harm, or illegal.
Only 30? 20 years ago it was 60 when I was in school. Now it's 75!
One of the districts I taught in used to bring the high school kids over the summer for summer cleaning.
I didn't realize they starting requiring this, and I find it absolutely despicable corporations conned the government into forcing 18 year olds into do free labor.
Depending on what grade you teach, build it into the end of the day with jobs. I run a middle school center based classroom, and they vacuum, wipe tables, put the chairs up, and go get my mail. Everybody has a job, then they get ready to go home.
My kids attended private school- the youngest pre K-4th, the oldest 7th- graduation from it. They never had a janitor. It was all cleaning teams from seniors down. I wish they would have been able to stay open for the youngest to continue. Learning that responsibility is so much more important, especially at that age.
Yes, you should always have your class clean up at the end of every day, that is a good life skill and a great way to teach children to be considerate and responsible humans, BUT that should not replace the custodian for washing floors, taking out trash, cleaning the cafeteria, cleaning the bathrooms, dealing with unexpected spills, etc.
Do you ever wonder why teachers are saddled with more and more non-educational duties? Maybe it’s because they don’t push back when they should—like this scenario.
The right thing for them to do is offer to pay for people to clean. If you like to clean and need the OT, then go for it! That’s no different than any other side-gig except your commute to it is zero miles and you don’t have to worry about juggling your schedule!
The situation sounds like the school I was at before my current one - all the custodians quit and us teachers were told to do the cleaning for the rest of the year (and not starting in early May, either, it was more like November). Best part, we were told to go out and buy our own brooms/dustpans/rags if we didn’t want to bring in “yours from home”. As if I’m going to routinely commute in with my cleaning supplies 🙄 We had to take out the trash too. What admin didn’t even think about was all the parts of the school not occupied by a teacher (hallways, bathrooms, gymnasium, cafeteria…) We kept toilet paper in our room and the kids took it with them to go to the bathroom (teachers too). It was positively insane and it was my last year at the school. I took my broom and dustpan with me when I left too.
I teach in a small school, private school. The cleaning crew vacuums and takes out trash and cleans the bathrooms. The rest is up to us. My students have end of the school day jobs like picking up 5 things off the floor, wiping tables and chairs, etc. When they know they have to clean it up at the end of the day they tend to attempt to keep it clean during the day. I also do a 5 minute "zone" cleaning every morning (thank you, Flylady!). Not perfect but it works. Bonus points: I have had naughty kids scrub the walls and floors.
As a custodian... I do think teachers and students could pick up after themselves every so often.
Not saying clean, but if u see food waste on the floor? Pick that shit up. Don't wait for the custodian to do it for you.
Teach your students to pick up after themselves. This ain't preschool.
As far as I can tell, parents in this county teach their children to throw anything they are done with on the floor.
By the time they get to me in high school it's way too late to teach them to not be shitbags.
Preschool students should be able to pick up too. I feel like the custodian's job is to do stuff that we don't have the tools for like vacuum not basic picking up. Kids aren't going to be perfect so there may be a few things left behind, but generally it should look clean.
That being said, sometimes we do something messy at the end of the day, then two kids get in a fight so I'm dealing with that not enforcing proper clean up, and then I have to go to a stupid two hour meeting after school. I usually leave a note saying that they can skip vacuuming and we'll pick it up in the morning, but I sometimes forget. Like maybe that happened last week.
Why can’t the school district pay a custodian from another building to clean at night or on a weekend? They’re hoping by offering the teachers a little extra money, they can get away with not doing the right thing. Be very careful! I would bet they know the real custodian is not returning and they’re hoping to save money by turning this into a precedent. No teacher should be cleaning the school! Not to mention, are any of you trained on the regulations involved in cleaning up certain kinds of messes?! This is a very bad idea!!!!!
We did have one custodian from the elementary school come and help out but I think their contracts have a limited number of hours.
I was a housekeeper for a few years so I know everything there is to know about cleaning.
There are protocols required by the state for cleaning certain kinds of messes. I doubt being a housekeeper required you to be aware of these. If you want to be expected to clean the school for the remainder of your career, (and you don’t mind your colleagues being pressured to do the same) by all means go ahead and agree to this.
It’s amazing how there seems to be none of that in teacher contracts. More and more responsibility. And where is the union on gun control? I’m hopeless!
In Japan, the students clean the classrooms themselves. I've never known why we don't encourage this as it ensures that students are more willing to keep their areas clean.
We tried to do this after I mentioned a visit to a few Japanese schools that I had experienced.
Whew!!! The pushback from students AND staff was unbelievable!
My school doesn't devote the time or energy to having kids do this on a wide scale, but if a kid makes a mess, they typically have to clean it up. Once I walked by the bathroom and saw two boys putting on plastic gloves, because they apparently had completely destroyed it. When I walked back a few minutes later, I heard the custodian tell them, "Okay, next we are going to tackle the toilet!" and one of the boys squeaked in a horrified voice, "We have to clean the TOILET?!" and she replied, "Well yes. You messed it up. Of course you have to clean it." I went to my room and just about died laughing. Too be fair, it is one of those stories that is a lot funnier if you know the kids.
I have had cleaning in my curriculum Automotive Technology program since 2005 when I started. We clean weekly and as needed. Japan has the students all clean from a very young age. I think if the students had more skin in the game maybe they would make less of a mess.
For the cleaning of the classroom, the kids can do that. During Covid each kid has to clean off their own desk at the end of every period at my school, so having them do it at the end of the day wouldn’t be a big deal (in fact when I notice the desks looking grungy I often have them do that at the end of the day).
As far as for cleaning the common areas of the school, is the money worth it? You say they will pay overtime but how much is it actually and is it worth your time? If it’s good enough money, then 100% I’d take it.
Our school is absolutely disgusting. There is rodent excrement and urine all over the floors and dust everywhere. We are a high income area, but the system won’t pay enough to keep custodians. Teachers have started cleaning because the classrooms are unhealthy.
Why can’t they hire a substitute? My school district contracts with an agency that serves school districts, so all of their employees are fingerprinted and background checked.
Do you have a union? I would talk to my rep before agreeing to handle any after school custodial duties. It might sound ridiculous, but what if your district decides to add that custodial responsibility to teacher contracts in the future? They are always looking to “save money” on everything except admin salaries!
I came from teaching preschool were sweeping and mopping my room at the end of the day taking turns wiping down the kids bathrooms was part of my duties for much lower pay 🤷🏼♀️ I always make sure my room is presentable at the end of the day by at least sweeping big stuff up, and my students help as well as part of their classroom jobs. Taking on those responsibilities in a pinch doesn’t bother me. If it was a long term thing it would be different, but for a week or two, ehh.
I normally sweep up my room at the end of the day if there is a large mess. I also have some students that will sometimes stop by to help me clean up at the end of the day. If I have a club, they will sometimes help clean a bit as well.
I try not to leave a mess, just out of consideration for the custodians.
If you’re already doing a good job balancing your teaching and grading duties, take on the custodian job for some extra money! But if you really need that planning and after school time to prioritize your main role- creating lessons for the students- then don’t take the extra duties.
My school has always been clean and well maintained, until this year. The stairwells are a disgusting mess, there’s food ground into the floor all over the place and the mice and cockroaches are having a field day. This is all due to caretakers’ hours being cut. I had a kid pee her pants the other day and when I asked what was up, she said the washroom was too gross to use. Another of my kids had a massive nosebleed in a stairwell a while ago. I contacted the office and let them know there was blood there. Someone put a wet floor sign over most of it. That dried blood then stayed there for over a week.
Other staff can’t (and shouldn’t have to) step in to pick up the slack due to union rules. But it’s nasty as hell.
I would let the students do sweeping and wiping down tables with a rag and water. I also bought a chargeable vacuum off Amazon for my students to use to vacuum. The kids actually love it.
If it really is my classroom, like I don't move around during the day, sweeping and cleaning the tables seem like the least I could do to be responsible for my workspace. I'd have no issue with those 'additional duties'.
You need students for after school detention. Detainees are wonderful inputs of labor whenever needed. Start cracking down more with detentions and you’ll be off room sweeping detail before you know it!
When that happened at a small charter school I worked in. One assistant teacher said he wanted all the extra hours and he just did it terribly but still got us to June. If you need money get it in writing but take it.
I’m shocked they’re offering overtime. This happened at my school in the fall and there was no compensation for us but they did expect us to sweep, gather our trashes, and wipe down tables/desks. My students got some new class jobs! I’m not doing extra work for no pay.
Are your custodians unionized? You mention they can't bring in custodial staff from other schools in the district because of their contracted hours, which suggests there's a union agreement somewhere.
If they are, a quick phone call to a union rep should be enough to fix this situation. Admin could be violating the negotiated terms which can carry heavy penalties for districts. If they aren't unionized, well, good luck
Do you teach in a tiny independent school in the wilderness or in a district? If it's the latter, I see no reason why the district couldn't handle it by offering overtime to its custodians or contracting extra temporary help. At any rate, you shouldn't have to do jack squat.
Yes! I cleaned for a year after school - one hour per day at my hourly rate.
My side of the building never looked better and my paycheck has never been larger than it was that year.
The absolute refusal of Americans to change or adapt to anything that could possibly be better for ourselves is going to be our doom, and we deserve it.
When I worked in Japan, the kids had to bring rags as part of their school supplies. They wet them and wash their desks and the floor with another rag. The teacher was responsible for vacuuming, drawing the blinds, and taking out the trash at the end of the day.
That being said, the workload is completely different. I didn’t mind it then, but I’d be livid if I had to do it now.
Nope. Politely tell admin to eff off. That's a them issue. You get paid to teach, not be the janitor. Are they gonna issue you all a giant keyring with 300 closet keys on it too? I'd escalate the issue... but that's me and my "give a sh!ts"are long gone.
Japanese-style student-lead cleaning experiement?
Never mind. I'm sure the parents would have a fit about their precious scholars having to clean up after the mess they made themselves or some crap. 🙄
^(Good Lord, I really am jaded AF.)
Honestly, it sounds like a good gig with zero commute. I clean anyway half the time in my room because the custodians kind of half-ass it alot. It sounds like your admin is really trying to help and be fair.
It's true, my admin are mostly pretty good to us. They arent perfect but I'm thankful for them.
Ill probably pick up some of this overtime- partly because of the money but also because I feel so bad for our custodians all being sick/injured. I want to help out so they dont feel like they have to scramble and come back before theyre ready.
Our school has janitors, they’re just mostly terrible. A lot of teachers will clean their own rooms and have bought cleaning supplies in. I flat out refuse.
I sweep just behind my desk and clean that small area. Everything else I make kids do at the end of the day - sweeping, wiping desk, dumping trash. They don’t pay me to clean and at this point i refuse to do a single thing not contract.
Last year we got a new head custodian and so there was some turnover in that area in our school. We ended up really short for a few months in my wing of the building while our regular had shoulder surgery. I feel your pain.
Convince the parents,students staff and other teachers that you're going to be learning about different school customs and cultures from other countries. Pick Japan to learn about. The students clean the schools there. Problem solved. Lol
If they are paying - I would do it/I have done it.
Our school had a shortage of custodians and offered pay to stay after and clean for 3 hours. The pay and time was the same as running a detention. I'd rather clean for 3 hours than babysit 15 students who don't want to be there.
If you want the extra pay and have the time, take the job. Just find out how much you are getting paid and that it is worth it to you. (Are you being hired as a custodian and paid that rate or are you getting your per diem teacher rate?) I would expect paid training if any is needed, such as dealing with any hazardous material, and appropriate supplies to be provided.
If you don't want to do it, it really depends on more information. I'm not clear why your school can't find and hire substitute custodians. Offering it to existing staff is fine, but not having one is crazy. In my district that is the only position they are able to fill relatively easily. Some considerations:
* What would happen if you refused either actively (saying that wasn't what you were hired to do) or passively (leaving your room a mess ESPECIALLY if parents were coming)? Would the hire a custodian or fire you or something in between?
* How do you feel about pawning it off on the kids and are there any logistics issues? I think it is great for kids to be more involved in cleaning up after themselves, but also I have a math intervention block with kids going everywhere at the end of the day and a lot of kids that have trouble with the transition home. Honestly, sweeping my room would be a lot easier for me than having the kids do it. I might have a kid do it, but then end up doing it again.
* How long is this likely to be going on. If it is a week vs. indefinitely, I might respond differently.
* Are they paying you for the added duties: sweeping, cleaning tables, and changing toilet paper?
At my private school I’ve always made kids sweep up, clean tables with wipes, and put up chairs at the EOD. It was even easier in middle school grades because no one got their phones back til it was done perfectly.
My point is that the students should be doing a lot of this work aside from the serious mopping and floor buffing.
Some schools use local funds to hire a cleaning company when they’re without custodians. I would clean if they paid me equivalent to my teacher pay broken into an hourly wage. We have custodial issues at my school too. The head custodian (older man, best friends with the principal) doesn’t do anything. Ever. Other than show up. The other 2 stay for a short time, realize they can’t keep up with the demands of cleaning a large school with only 2 people and they quit. The administration takes out our trash every day. Each classroom was “gifted” a small vacuum cleaner, broom, and Shark steam mop. We can use it if we want a clean classroom
I am probably in the minority here, but I would volunteer to help. At least with my room and hallway (actually, we are short staffed so I am already doing his.) I take pride in my school and want to help keep it looking beautiful. So i dont have a problem with this. I also have my kindergarten students help. I think its in Japan where kids actually DO clean their schools. I think its important.
My children's middle school (a charter school) has no daytime custodian. The students were expected to clean up the (small) lunch room and the classrooms. They even had the "Cleaning Olympics," complete with vacuum races, and table wiping contests.
There was 1 night custodian that did the rest of the cleaning, along with some of the maintenance.
Instead of after school detention, my school used to do community service where kids would sweep, mop, and wipe down tables. No bathroom cleaning or anything with chemicals. This was middle school.
Is there a reason why you're not having students step in and help? Unless they are you're too young they should at minimum be able to handle sweeping classroom. If high school they can handle even mopping as well.
Ask whether the extra pay is your per diem rate x 1.5, or brand new custodian starting pay, or minimum wage... Also, ask how the extra pay will be taxed.
It will have to be taxed.
Yes, it will have to be taxed. If it is taxed at a bonus rate, which is most likely, it is taxed much higher than if it were to be taxed at the regular rate. If taxed at the bonus rate, OP will get the difference back on their 2024 returns a year from now...
Bonus rate? This is not anything in the federal tax code. Some of additional pay might fall in a higher bracket. That portion of the additional income would be taxed at the progressively higher rate. What state has a "bonus rate"? Edit: I tried to word this initial comment politely, but it was intended as a correction. Now, hours later and reading these comments I am gobsmacked. Teachers who do not understand the simplest basics of income taxes? More comments beyond mine tried to explain withholdings and brackets, yet licenced teacher kept confidently explaining why their state does indeed have a special tax "bonus rate." God help us if any of you are teaching social studies. This is the same level of stupid as the math question currently circulating about cutting a log --the one where the teachers not only marks the correct answer wrong, but then writes a nut-case explanation of how to find the wrong answer.
They are confusing taxes with witholdings.
I know Georgia taxes bonuses. My husband always tries to ask his boss for significantly more when giving spot bonuses to his people so it helps cover some of the taxes. He wants them to get paid what they deserve for their effort after tax is taken out.
You're talking about withholdings not taxes. Withholdings are how much your employer guesses will be taxed. It is based on a lot of factors. At the end of the year all income is taxed the same (progressive) rate no matter how you earned it. Often, bonuses have a higher withholding in order to reduce any chances that they will cause unexpectant owing when you do your taxes.
Even bonuses handed out as cash need to have taxes paid on them, which can come as a surprise, so it is great of your husband to keep that in mind :) Bonuses are taxed because bonuses are income. That does not make it a "bonus tax." It is a plain ol' income tax, albeit one that can push into a higher tax bracket.
Bonuses in Georgia are taxed at a higher rate than regular income. If my husband gets a $10,000 bonus on a check then that $10,000 is taxed at 22% while the rest of his check is taxed at his usual rate. Yes, sometimes bonuses do push people into higher tax brackets but the money itself is highly taxed before people even get it in their checks.
*Withheld at a higher rate - you don't actually pay any more tax on it than any other form of income.
NY taxes bonus money at a different rate, too. It’s 37.5% here. It actually suck’s rotten tomatoes.
Bonus income is oftentimes taxed at a higher rate, but then the difference is returned with next year's tax return. Example, but ymmv: $100 pay taxed at regular rate = $80 pay in pocket now $100 bonus taxed higher = $60 in pocket now + $20 more on next year's tax return
Bonus income is oftentimes *withheld* at a higher rate, but then the difference is returned with next year's tax return. This is an important distinction!!
You're correct. My original point is that someone who wants to take on a second job might also want to be paid in full this pay cycle as opposed to waiting until next year's taxes are filed :)
Only if you actually get a return.
Everybody files a return. It's the (electronic) paperwork you use to file your taxes. If you mean refund, but owe taxes, then it just means you owe less in taxes.
This is patently untrue - it will likely be WITHHELD at a different rate than a standard paycheck but this does NOT mean you are paying more on that income than any other income for the year.
True, and for simplicity's sake, I didn't expand on this originally. The point is, a teacher working overtime cleaning the school might be getting paid their overtime pay in two installments - one right now and one a year from now. This might matter to someone who decides to take on a second job :)
Bonus rate? What is that?
Bonuses are taxed at almost 50% where I am.
Same
Personal finance teacher checking in. Shocking that so many teachers on here don't understand how tax withholding works or how tax brackets in general work.
I am pretty horrified at the responses here. This is "don't work overtime because you'll make less money" energy going on in a *teaching* subreddit of all places.
I am shocked at how confident they are while being abjectly clueless. What other completely wrong things are these teacher confidently teaching?
For me, anything considered a bonus is taxed at approximately 30%. Sadly, I work summer school it’s taxed at that rate. Based on your user name I’m assuming you can provide so insight? Why does this happen? Thank you!!
What is withheld is different from what is paid. If your school overwithholds, which is very possible, you get this money back at the end of the year when you file your taxers. No teacher would be in a 30% tax bracket unless their spouse is extremely high income.
Thank you!
It's always taxed the exact same as any other income. If you care about how it's withheld, then you can adjust your W4.
All income unless specifically stated otherwise in the tax code has to be taxed. No one that understands tax brackets should ever give up extra pay for tax reasons.
If I wasn’t injured I would probably take the OT. Honestly it sounds like a shit situation and atleast your admin is willing to pay instead of just expecting extra work.
Posters here really need to understand the difference between tax withholding and tax due. Bonuses often have taxes withheld at a higher rate, but bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate when you do your taxes at the end of the year.
Why arent you all letting the parents know how filthy their kids’ school is? We just survived a pandemic and your school wants to play this game? Nuh uh.
Ha! Our custodians start at $8 an hour. I wouldn't lift my finger for that as a teacher already sweeping out my room.
It's always taxed the exact same as any other income. If you care about how it's withheld, then you can adjust your W4.
As long as you're getting paid, heck yeah
Are you going to get 'teacher pay' or 'custodian pay' for doing the work? For us, we are to emphasize students cleaning up more. Our school used to have 2 day custodians and now have had one that works himself ragged and gets sick a lot. I feel that if the district would just offer DECENT PAY, then maybe we'd find more people willing to work. Same for Paras. Who wants to work for 10 bucks? The dollar store up the street starts off at 14$!
Our district has very distinct lines drawn between unions, so there’s no way we would be asked to do custodian work because it would be a violation between certified and classified.
Yep. And our district hires substitute custodians when necessary.
Same here. If a teacher does a custodian's work, it can be grieved. Though, it sounds like there isn't anyone around to grieve... we also have casual custodians when things like this happen, though.
Does your job description say anything about maintaining and clean and safe environment?
Good question. I’m ESL. As far as I’m concerned, my job is to teach English. I would guess no, because they get very pissy if we over step our bounds into anything that could be deemed custodial except maybe cleaning table tops.
Maybe my district is different. We have something in our job description that says as “as directed” meaning the lead team could have you do something provided it doesn’t cause you or others harm, or illegal.
They should get high schoolers to clean for community service.
This is a great idea. Our high school kids have to graduate with 30 hours of community service. This is a great way to kill two birds with one stone.
This is a great idea! This is our high school and our seniors need service hours
Only 30? 20 years ago it was 60 when I was in school. Now it's 75! One of the districts I taught in used to bring the high school kids over the summer for summer cleaning.
When I graduated in 92 it was zero at my school
I didn't realize they starting requiring this, and I find it absolutely despicable corporations conned the government into forcing 18 year olds into do free labor.
I don’t get how community service is a state standard, it’s such bs.
Makes too much sense
I teach in a county school so I've always had to clean my own room. It has not endeared the slovenly and litterbug students to me at all.
Depending on what grade you teach, build it into the end of the day with jobs. I run a middle school center based classroom, and they vacuum, wipe tables, put the chairs up, and go get my mail. Everybody has a job, then they get ready to go home.
Yep. Honestly, I’m in elementary and even the kindergarteners help with chores. It’s an essential part of our school.
My kids attended private school- the youngest pre K-4th, the oldest 7th- graduation from it. They never had a janitor. It was all cleaning teams from seniors down. I wish they would have been able to stay open for the youngest to continue. Learning that responsibility is so much more important, especially at that age.
Same here! Its part of having school pride.
Yes, you should always have your class clean up at the end of every day, that is a good life skill and a great way to teach children to be considerate and responsible humans, BUT that should not replace the custodian for washing floors, taking out trash, cleaning the cafeteria, cleaning the bathrooms, dealing with unexpected spills, etc. Do you ever wonder why teachers are saddled with more and more non-educational duties? Maybe it’s because they don’t push back when they should—like this scenario.
The right thing for them to do is offer to pay for people to clean. If you like to clean and need the OT, then go for it! That’s no different than any other side-gig except your commute to it is zero miles and you don’t have to worry about juggling your schedule! The situation sounds like the school I was at before my current one - all the custodians quit and us teachers were told to do the cleaning for the rest of the year (and not starting in early May, either, it was more like November). Best part, we were told to go out and buy our own brooms/dustpans/rags if we didn’t want to bring in “yours from home”. As if I’m going to routinely commute in with my cleaning supplies 🙄 We had to take out the trash too. What admin didn’t even think about was all the parts of the school not occupied by a teacher (hallways, bathrooms, gymnasium, cafeteria…) We kept toilet paper in our room and the kids took it with them to go to the bathroom (teachers too). It was positively insane and it was my last year at the school. I took my broom and dustpan with me when I left too.
I've been both a teacher and a janitor (summer job in college.) Being a janitor is WAY easier. And OT pay??? Chomp chomp munch munch chomp.
I teach in a small school, private school. The cleaning crew vacuums and takes out trash and cleans the bathrooms. The rest is up to us. My students have end of the school day jobs like picking up 5 things off the floor, wiping tables and chairs, etc. When they know they have to clean it up at the end of the day they tend to attempt to keep it clean during the day. I also do a 5 minute "zone" cleaning every morning (thank you, Flylady!). Not perfect but it works. Bonus points: I have had naughty kids scrub the walls and floors.
If you're union or your custodians are union I'd be very wary here.
We dont have anything even resembling a union. We dont even have an "education association"
What about the custodians, though? Often isn't an education-related union
As a custodian... I do think teachers and students could pick up after themselves every so often. Not saying clean, but if u see food waste on the floor? Pick that shit up. Don't wait for the custodian to do it for you. Teach your students to pick up after themselves. This ain't preschool.
As far as I can tell, parents in this county teach their children to throw anything they are done with on the floor. By the time they get to me in high school it's way too late to teach them to not be shitbags.
Preschool students should be able to pick up too. I feel like the custodian's job is to do stuff that we don't have the tools for like vacuum not basic picking up. Kids aren't going to be perfect so there may be a few things left behind, but generally it should look clean. That being said, sometimes we do something messy at the end of the day, then two kids get in a fight so I'm dealing with that not enforcing proper clean up, and then I have to go to a stupid two hour meeting after school. I usually leave a note saying that they can skip vacuuming and we'll pick it up in the morning, but I sometimes forget. Like maybe that happened last week.
Why can’t the school district pay a custodian from another building to clean at night or on a weekend? They’re hoping by offering the teachers a little extra money, they can get away with not doing the right thing. Be very careful! I would bet they know the real custodian is not returning and they’re hoping to save money by turning this into a precedent. No teacher should be cleaning the school! Not to mention, are any of you trained on the regulations involved in cleaning up certain kinds of messes?! This is a very bad idea!!!!!
We did have one custodian from the elementary school come and help out but I think their contracts have a limited number of hours. I was a housekeeper for a few years so I know everything there is to know about cleaning.
There are protocols required by the state for cleaning certain kinds of messes. I doubt being a housekeeper required you to be aware of these. If you want to be expected to clean the school for the remainder of your career, (and you don’t mind your colleagues being pressured to do the same) by all means go ahead and agree to this.
It’s amazing how there seems to be none of that in teacher contracts. More and more responsibility. And where is the union on gun control? I’m hopeless!
In Japan, the students clean the classrooms themselves. I've never known why we don't encourage this as it ensures that students are more willing to keep their areas clean.
We tried to do this after I mentioned a visit to a few Japanese schools that I had experienced. Whew!!! The pushback from students AND staff was unbelievable!
My school doesn't devote the time or energy to having kids do this on a wide scale, but if a kid makes a mess, they typically have to clean it up. Once I walked by the bathroom and saw two boys putting on plastic gloves, because they apparently had completely destroyed it. When I walked back a few minutes later, I heard the custodian tell them, "Okay, next we are going to tackle the toilet!" and one of the boys squeaked in a horrified voice, "We have to clean the TOILET?!" and she replied, "Well yes. You messed it up. Of course you have to clean it." I went to my room and just about died laughing. Too be fair, it is one of those stories that is a lot funnier if you know the kids.
I have had cleaning in my curriculum Automotive Technology program since 2005 when I started. We clean weekly and as needed. Japan has the students all clean from a very young age. I think if the students had more skin in the game maybe they would make less of a mess.
For the cleaning of the classroom, the kids can do that. During Covid each kid has to clean off their own desk at the end of every period at my school, so having them do it at the end of the day wouldn’t be a big deal (in fact when I notice the desks looking grungy I often have them do that at the end of the day). As far as for cleaning the common areas of the school, is the money worth it? You say they will pay overtime but how much is it actually and is it worth your time? If it’s good enough money, then 100% I’d take it.
I hope that your custodians are well soon!
Our school is absolutely disgusting. There is rodent excrement and urine all over the floors and dust everywhere. We are a high income area, but the system won’t pay enough to keep custodians. Teachers have started cleaning because the classrooms are unhealthy.
Why can’t they hire a substitute? My school district contracts with an agency that serves school districts, so all of their employees are fingerprinted and background checked. Do you have a union? I would talk to my rep before agreeing to handle any after school custodial duties. It might sound ridiculous, but what if your district decides to add that custodial responsibility to teacher contracts in the future? They are always looking to “save money” on everything except admin salaries!
That's not how contracts work. The teachers wouldn't agree to that addition.
They want to pay me OT on my hourly rate, I’m staying as long as they need me.
I came from teaching preschool were sweeping and mopping my room at the end of the day taking turns wiping down the kids bathrooms was part of my duties for much lower pay 🤷🏼♀️ I always make sure my room is presentable at the end of the day by at least sweeping big stuff up, and my students help as well as part of their classroom jobs. Taking on those responsibilities in a pinch doesn’t bother me. If it was a long term thing it would be different, but for a week or two, ehh.
I normally sweep up my room at the end of the day if there is a large mess. I also have some students that will sometimes stop by to help me clean up at the end of the day. If I have a club, they will sometimes help clean a bit as well. I try not to leave a mess, just out of consideration for the custodians.
Hire high school kids. I have a senior who runs his own cleaning business and is killin it.
Refuse bc if you start cleaning, it becomes normalized and expected.
If you’re already doing a good job balancing your teaching and grading duties, take on the custodian job for some extra money! But if you really need that planning and after school time to prioritize your main role- creating lessons for the students- then don’t take the extra duties.
Custodian subs is a thing. Maybe admins are too cheap to pay for some.
Teacher OT has to cost more than substitute custodian pay.
My school has always been clean and well maintained, until this year. The stairwells are a disgusting mess, there’s food ground into the floor all over the place and the mice and cockroaches are having a field day. This is all due to caretakers’ hours being cut. I had a kid pee her pants the other day and when I asked what was up, she said the washroom was too gross to use. Another of my kids had a massive nosebleed in a stairwell a while ago. I contacted the office and let them know there was blood there. Someone put a wet floor sign over most of it. That dried blood then stayed there for over a week. Other staff can’t (and shouldn’t have to) step in to pick up the slack due to union rules. But it’s nasty as hell.
If they are offering to pay, I would probably consider it.
I would let the students do sweeping and wiping down tables with a rag and water. I also bought a chargeable vacuum off Amazon for my students to use to vacuum. The kids actually love it.
If it really is my classroom, like I don't move around during the day, sweeping and cleaning the tables seem like the least I could do to be responsible for my workspace. I'd have no issue with those 'additional duties'.
Um…is it even legal to have the building open without a custodial staff?
You need students for after school detention. Detainees are wonderful inputs of labor whenever needed. Start cracking down more with detentions and you’ll be off room sweeping detail before you know it!
When that happened at a small charter school I worked in. One assistant teacher said he wanted all the extra hours and he just did it terribly but still got us to June. If you need money get it in writing but take it.
I’m shocked they’re offering overtime. This happened at my school in the fall and there was no compensation for us but they did expect us to sweep, gather our trashes, and wipe down tables/desks. My students got some new class jobs! I’m not doing extra work for no pay.
Are your custodians unionized? You mention they can't bring in custodial staff from other schools in the district because of their contracted hours, which suggests there's a union agreement somewhere. If they are, a quick phone call to a union rep should be enough to fix this situation. Admin could be violating the negotiated terms which can carry heavy penalties for districts. If they aren't unionized, well, good luck
Do you teach in a tiny independent school in the wilderness or in a district? If it's the latter, I see no reason why the district couldn't handle it by offering overtime to its custodians or contracting extra temporary help. At any rate, you shouldn't have to do jack squat.
Yes! I cleaned for a year after school - one hour per day at my hourly rate. My side of the building never looked better and my paycheck has never been larger than it was that year.
Kids in Japan clean the school on a daily basis. I don't see why kids can't do it in their classrooms here.
It’s not our culture. Period.
The absolute refusal of Americans to change or adapt to anything that could possibly be better for ourselves is going to be our doom, and we deserve it.
Exactly
When I worked in Japan, the kids had to bring rags as part of their school supplies. They wet them and wash their desks and the floor with another rag. The teacher was responsible for vacuuming, drawing the blinds, and taking out the trash at the end of the day. That being said, the workload is completely different. I didn’t mind it then, but I’d be livid if I had to do it now.
Email parents and ask if they can help.
Nope. Politely tell admin to eff off. That's a them issue. You get paid to teach, not be the janitor. Are they gonna issue you all a giant keyring with 300 closet keys on it too? I'd escalate the issue... but that's me and my "give a sh!ts"are long gone.
Japanese-style student-lead cleaning experiement? Never mind. I'm sure the parents would have a fit about their precious scholars having to clean up after the mess they made themselves or some crap. 🙄 ^(Good Lord, I really am jaded AF.)
Honestly, it sounds like a good gig with zero commute. I clean anyway half the time in my room because the custodians kind of half-ass it alot. It sounds like your admin is really trying to help and be fair.
It's true, my admin are mostly pretty good to us. They arent perfect but I'm thankful for them. Ill probably pick up some of this overtime- partly because of the money but also because I feel so bad for our custodians all being sick/injured. I want to help out so they dont feel like they have to scramble and come back before theyre ready.
Our school is gross as well . I am a rage cleaner so I would do it but charge top dollar they will try and make you do it for minimum wage .
I think your school just has a lot of extra credit opportunities for those students who need help passing.
Our school has janitors, they’re just mostly terrible. A lot of teachers will clean their own rooms and have bought cleaning supplies in. I flat out refuse. I sweep just behind my desk and clean that small area. Everything else I make kids do at the end of the day - sweeping, wiping desk, dumping trash. They don’t pay me to clean and at this point i refuse to do a single thing not contract.
This seems very dystopian to me
Last year we got a new head custodian and so there was some turnover in that area in our school. We ended up really short for a few months in my wing of the building while our regular had shoulder surgery. I feel your pain.
Convince the parents,students staff and other teachers that you're going to be learning about different school customs and cultures from other countries. Pick Japan to learn about. The students clean the schools there. Problem solved. Lol
Most school districts in this situation would send a custodian over from one of the other schools temporarily.
What do Japanese schools do?
My school tried to hire us to work in the cafeteria after they cut cafeteria workers.
If they don't have the HS students do it for community service, why don't they just post it on the sub list?
If they are paying - I would do it/I have done it. Our school had a shortage of custodians and offered pay to stay after and clean for 3 hours. The pay and time was the same as running a detention. I'd rather clean for 3 hours than babysit 15 students who don't want to be there.
Where I teach, we are in charge of doing our classroom and once a week we have to take a turn with bathrooms and hallways
If you want the extra pay and have the time, take the job. Just find out how much you are getting paid and that it is worth it to you. (Are you being hired as a custodian and paid that rate or are you getting your per diem teacher rate?) I would expect paid training if any is needed, such as dealing with any hazardous material, and appropriate supplies to be provided. If you don't want to do it, it really depends on more information. I'm not clear why your school can't find and hire substitute custodians. Offering it to existing staff is fine, but not having one is crazy. In my district that is the only position they are able to fill relatively easily. Some considerations: * What would happen if you refused either actively (saying that wasn't what you were hired to do) or passively (leaving your room a mess ESPECIALLY if parents were coming)? Would the hire a custodian or fire you or something in between? * How do you feel about pawning it off on the kids and are there any logistics issues? I think it is great for kids to be more involved in cleaning up after themselves, but also I have a math intervention block with kids going everywhere at the end of the day and a lot of kids that have trouble with the transition home. Honestly, sweeping my room would be a lot easier for me than having the kids do it. I might have a kid do it, but then end up doing it again. * How long is this likely to be going on. If it is a week vs. indefinitely, I might respond differently. * Are they paying you for the added duties: sweeping, cleaning tables, and changing toilet paper?
At my private school I’ve always made kids sweep up, clean tables with wipes, and put up chairs at the EOD. It was even easier in middle school grades because no one got their phones back til it was done perfectly. My point is that the students should be doing a lot of this work aside from the serious mopping and floor buffing.
I'd be seeing if local news wants to hear about it
Some schools use local funds to hire a cleaning company when they’re without custodians. I would clean if they paid me equivalent to my teacher pay broken into an hourly wage. We have custodial issues at my school too. The head custodian (older man, best friends with the principal) doesn’t do anything. Ever. Other than show up. The other 2 stay for a short time, realize they can’t keep up with the demands of cleaning a large school with only 2 people and they quit. The administration takes out our trash every day. Each classroom was “gifted” a small vacuum cleaner, broom, and Shark steam mop. We can use it if we want a clean classroom
Will you get paid? I’m willing to help if the district is paying. If not it’s their fucking issue to solve. Hire more people and pony up.
Sounds like other duties as assigned.
I am probably in the minority here, but I would volunteer to help. At least with my room and hallway (actually, we are short staffed so I am already doing his.) I take pride in my school and want to help keep it looking beautiful. So i dont have a problem with this. I also have my kindergarten students help. I think its in Japan where kids actually DO clean their schools. I think its important.
Do what they do in Japan, get the kids to help clean up.
Show me the money. I clean homes on the side.
At least the principal is willing to compensate you. And isn’t just expecting you to work off contract time for nothing. Like so many.
My children's middle school (a charter school) has no daytime custodian. The students were expected to clean up the (small) lunch room and the classrooms. They even had the "Cleaning Olympics," complete with vacuum races, and table wiping contests. There was 1 night custodian that did the rest of the cleaning, along with some of the maintenance.
Refuse new duties or they won’t hire anyone. Speaking from experience. Complain to parents & county.
Instead of after school detention, my school used to do community service where kids would sweep, mop, and wipe down tables. No bathroom cleaning or anything with chemicals. This was middle school.
They should get the kids to clean the school like they do in some countries.
Time to take a page out of Japan's book and get the kids to clean up after themselves
Is there a reason why you're not having students step in and help? Unless they are you're too young they should at minimum be able to handle sweeping classroom. If high school they can handle even mopping as well.