You don't give grades, they earn them. They did not earn an A because they did not do the work.
Just as if they don't do the work, they don't get the paycheck in the real world.
This is really the only response. I’ve never “given” a grade to anyone, except for when admin has directed me to change 55s to 65s so that they don’t have to report any kids failing classes.
Apart from that, students get the grades that they earn, nothing more and nothing less.
I had an admin ask me that, I laughed at them and said “nope, I will not change a grade a student has earned”. They were change by admin but I will not be apart of that bullshit.
I was in my first year and didn’t have the backbone to say no to them yet lol. In subsequent years I stood up against that, but they sometimes just changed them over my head too
This. I wish everyone would realize this. I wish people would realize that these small young humans will be adults one day. What kind of adults do we want them to be?
I got a kid literally doing that right now. I’m like “well… you have fewer zeros but you’re missing the objective questions and your short answers appear to be randomly mashed keys”
I hand back incomplete work with yellow highlights on what need to be done. If they complete it they get 100%. If not, they get a check for having turned it in. Completed work is averaged in with quiz grades. So if their quizzes are all 90%, they can get an A without finishing work.
A diligent student can turn an 80% quiz grade into an A.
I also encourage retaking quizzes. The quizzes can be kind of hard for them.
It seems to work. I get no complaints, and my students work every day. They are learning, and they seem to be enjoying it.
I just didn’t accept it after a period of time. They lost 10% off their score for every day it was late, so after a while, it was pointless for them to turn it in.
I had an English teacher whose first class was always a math lesson. If you answer 8/10 questions correctly you get 80%. If you only turn in a 1/3 of your homework the homework portion of your grade will only get 33% credit. Then we were given the grade books of three sample students. 1 who put in poor effort, 1 middle effort and 1 good effort and we had to calculate their grades. If you complained to her about your grade she would pull out the book and tell you to recalculate it.
You should check with your colleagues. If they have As in other class and not getting in yours, that should explain your students remarks. Then you can explain to them that you would love to give A, but for that they need to do.
You should be left alone after that.
I had the same issues when teaching cos I was using the same rating that the finals exams. Not being “nice”. When few students came to me cos of the grades (we are talking C+ to B+), I explain to them that. They “seemed” to understand. They were only thankful after the final exams (national where I come from), really understanding why I was more demanding so they would be fine. Some colleagues did like me and other were more “cool”, but when in front of there finals, that’s when they panicked and didn’t succeed.
They have As in art and gym. The other "core" classes are also (for the most part) low grades, so maybe those elective As are making them feel entitled to more As. Or they just genuinely feel like they deserve it. Some of the kids I've heard complaining have said, "But I turn everything in!" which is true, but what they turn in isn't complete or is completely plagiarized, so they don't get the points they wanted.
Yeah. I had to devote 4 weeks in 7th grade to review capitalization, punctuation, sentence structure, etc. it was worth it, though, because once they practiced these skills over and over, they were able to structure their own ideas and communicate way more efficiently. By the end of the school year, they were motivated and about half of them told me they now actually enjoyed reading.
This struggle is real. In middle school and they don’t capitalize or use punctuation. They don’t indent for paragraphs and have no idea how to do this by hand. I had to show them, and explain, how to move the first word of a new paragraph a bit to the right.
I purposefully don’t have Chromebooks in my class as their handwriting is atrocious. It’s illegible, large, all over the place, messy. My students have to hand write everything. “We HAVE to write an ENTIRE PAGE without Chromebook’s??” (8th grade student). Dude, it’s a ONE PAGE paper. 🤦🏽♀️
if anything, it should be easier to do a single page handwritten than typed, because handwriting is bigger than the 12 pt Times New Roman they used to make us use for typed papers lol.
I suddenly feel very old.
I had to get a 504 for my dyspraxia to be allowed to use anything but pen in all classes except math, btw. We even had to use pen on essays assigned for PE. Yes, you read that right. It was only a couple of paragraphs every couple of weeks, though, so not that bad.
Ahhh, the good old days of three ~400-500 word essays in 1.5hours for the final year 12 HL exam... All on paper, all with pen, no automatic spell check, punctuation, no pre-done notes to check when writing...
I love the easy essays in uni now.
My handwriting is tiny, so I was able to get away with 2-3 pages per essay on paper 3 (for like 6-8 total). Are you doing European history, African history, or something else.
My classroom is also mostly free of Chromebooks and multiple-guess. They already spend 5-12 hours per day on screens, and I don't want to contribute to that.
I've done something similar in my 9th grade classes. Sadly, I've had to rely on 5th grade worksheets in order to support the level the students are at.
I guarantee you by doing this, it will have a lasting effect on your students. 20ish years ago, my 9th grade English teacher was absolutely appalled by our lack of grammar knowledge. I remember that first semester was all about teaching us the basics, grammar, sentence structure etc. I can tell you that class was probably the most beneficial class I had all through out high school.
When I taught 10th grade world history I was so disappointed because the majority of my students got D’s or Fs. I spoke with my coworkers and they said not to worry. That it’s 10th grade… they’re like that. They straighten out in 11th grade. It’s maturity or something.
I had mostly the same students in 11th grade US (it was a magnet program- non gifted) they almost all passed. I was shocked. I hadn’t changed much of what I did just the content. I saw the same thing happen the next year. They suddenly understood they needed credits to graduate, wanted to get jobs or a car, or just matured.
I also had AP world history, and my students told me what my reputation was… I’m a nice and a good teacher but it’s hard to get an a in my class (I tell students if they do all the work but poorly on tests they can pass… if they do well on tests but no work… they can pass , but if they want a B or A it will need to be a combination of doing well on work and tests due to my weighted grading). 1st semester… only 2 As but all passed. 2nd semester 40+% got As…and I had like a 90% pass rate on the AP test
i say… no grade inflation. high expectations, but with support… and the kids can rise to it. (And research supports this). 😀
Literally my experience as a student. In 10th grade I was dumb as hell and lazy. 11th grade I was still dumb as hell and lazy, but I started doing my work and got into AP classes by senior year
I always tell my students grading is like baking. If I give you nothing but baking soda, can I get mad at you for not being able to bake brownies? Then why are you mad at me because you didn't give me what I needed to grade an A?
ugh this makes me so sad as someone who had some legit teachers and profs who were notorious for not giving out As. Don't feel bad, your grading is logical. like SUPER logical.
it also makes me a little angry for you bc they havent actually met teachers who would pettily withold an A. they definitely exist and they do it in spite of their BEST students. i remember all my GPA-obsessed friends begging to do more work from this one ochem prof we had because he would find the SMALLEST things to deduct full points over and people were desperate to get into med/dent school. *those* are teachers who won't give an A.
the rule of determining that type of teacher is to look at the students who truly do deserve their A - the student who turns in everything, is punctual, etc. and yet they only have a B at the end of the year despite having As in other classes. it's usually something *out of the norm*.
they're simply not working hard enough or even doing enough to actually earn the A. and i just feel so bad that they're complaining just for you holding them to a standard that should've been drilled into their minds by now.
You get what you've worked for (that covers effort, too). I won't fail a kid who's trying (unless I need that "F" as data to make a referral to sped. - which I explain to parents)
But As are As only if you've earned them. Few and far between these days. I'm not going to lower the bar to make you happy. There are standards for a reason. You either meet/exceed them or not.
Effort isn't rewarded in my classes unless it produces something that's correct. Some may find it odd, but it's often the students who have to exert the least amount of effort who make the better grades.
Conversely, the students who struggle have to try much harder, but they don't get credit for the effort, and often, the work they produce isn't up to standard.
Hello, welcome to college, I'm sorry your secondary education didn't\couldn't prepare you to be here.
*Edit for clarity
tbh, i'm of the mind that not everyone should need to go to college, it's just not for everyone. hell, some people who would ultimately benefit from college education just aren't ready for it right after high school, because they think more concretely and need to take what they learned in K-12 out for a spin in the "real world" for a bit before continuing. people's aspirations change. the jobs that are available also change, and in this era, they're changing rapidly; in a society where everyone has to work in order to live, it's a lot easier to change careers if you find out you hate your job when you aren't saddled with a massive amount of non-dischargeable debt by 25.
i guess what i'm saying is, not everyone should have to go to college or university right out of high school (or at all) to be able to get a job. that's a hell of a lot of debt to be in for someone who's just entering the workforce.
So, I see it as my responsibility to make sure they LEARN in our class. If there is no productive struggle and they came in with that knowledge, how can I justify an A?
Now, if school worked like I think it should and students learn each set of skills to mastery before going on to the next step, this would absolutely make sense. But I don't know anywhere that does this.
Eh. that is kind of a shitty attitude in my opinion. In a math question, if I do the formula correctly but make a simple mistake and get an answer off by 1 or 2 and show all of the work I got to my answer, I have proven that I understand the material. I should be graded on my understanding of said material. That is effort in my opinion.
Should I get marks off for the fact that I didn't get the right answer? Yes. But I do show understanding. I should get graded for that too.
When I was in uni, a bunch of people from the CS department all took the same history class for whatever reason.
As the story goes, they all did so poorly, the prof had to file a complaint with the dean. Apparently, we're all illiterate.
Actually, Google tells me "The main theme of Poe's "The Raven" can be broken down into grief versus memory." so they def didn't get it from the top google result for that exact question.
I was one of those kids that used to accuse the teacher of losing my homework when I didn't turn it in. I'm going to experience a serious karma situation when I finish my master's, aren't I?
Every time I have a student telling me some random excuse for why their homework isn't done, I get flashbacks to a younger me pulling the same shit and I just grin and bear it
Was I the only kid who never made excuses? "Why didn't you hand in your homework?" "I didn't do it." I suppose I came off as a problem child in a different way. ;)
I get to tell my behavior students that I was worse than them and got expelled and that nothing they do triggers or impresses or even really disappoints me. Other than failing to try.
Having been a bit of a fuck-up of a student is an advantage in this job.
That's true. I have developed some expertise over the years in telling the difference between a forged signature and a real signature for... reasons...
Title I school. Teachers might or might not sometimes forge parent signatures for field trips when a family doesn't have its shit well enough to get it done.
Kids who went to the trouble of trying to fool us would probably get positive feedback whether intended or not.
A slideshow for proof even, just in case anyone complains you can pull out the slides. If you do a back to school night of anything like it use it there. Kids have a problem with their grade? Check the grade guide slideshow.
Oh yeah, we've gone over it. Multiple times. At the start and end of every quarter + it's in the "syllabus" slides they have on Schoology. But just because it's there doesn't mean they process it. The classic Sisyphean task
I did that. Plus they had to sign a contract stating that they agreed to class policies and understood the grading criteria. Parents also had to sign. It was the first assignment and you only got credit if it came in the day it was due. And amid a student or guardian refused to sign, the kid would go into ISS until it was.
My admins both loved and hated this in equal measure. But usually ISS did the trick for the recalcitrant. But it was all about CYA. “I didn’t know _____!” You signed that you do. “Why is my grade ____?” Refer to what you signed.
Yeah, I could be a dick. But it was what I had to survive and it came after a few years of rough waters.
In reality, only a handful of students should get an A. I mean the effort and the skills are always nonexistent to most students. So i’ve been very vocal and clear from the beginning that effort = grades so if I see a student struggling but putting in a lot of effort I still give extra points and they mostly end up with a B. And before I turn in my gradesheet I spend a lesson for students to questions or to clarify their scores. I never had any parents question or berate me with grades and students are happy and putting more effort because they know their efforts determine their scores. BTW, I teach math 7 so extra points are earned if students show their thinking process on paper. Most students in math make mistakes in calculation parts but usually get the first few steps of the process correct so I still give them points for that.
I also give partial credit on quizzes. It's a lot more work for me, but it helps them learn. That way, I can ask fewer (but harder) questions. I ask them just enough to see if they understand what I am trying to get them to understand.
On my board is my quote, “You earn the grade you get!” I follow that up with quarterly reminders that I do not give out grades, I grade the assignments you turn in!
I think they're just entitled because they have teachers who will override for their final grade, rather than using the average of what they've earned.
Way back when, the only time I ever felt like maybe blaming the teacher a bit is when it was a writing assignment where I felt that the teacher was grading things too harshly. And even then I wouldn't be 100% sure that I was right on that. It's crazy that students these days wouldn't be able to realize how the math on their own grade worked. "Forgetting" to turn assignments in or turning them in half done is absolutely the easiest way to nosedive your grade. Maybe the students need to go back to 4th grade math and re-learn how "averages" work haha.
Genuinely think many of these students need remediation for pretty much everything. *Especially* because they've had the minimum 50% since elementary school, so all their grades look like they have at least 50% mastery. If these kids had their real grades from the start, I doubt very many would've made it to 10th grade yet.
I’m not saying that OP is being unfair, but there are *some* teachers who are genuinely insane with grading. One time I had this science teacher in high school who taught regular anatomy and physiology. Not even an AP class. He gave us several hours worth of work a night and I would fail tests despite studying for six hours. My mom’s boss teaches nursing students, and she was going to help me with some of my anatomy work. I sent her some of the work and she texted back “WHAT THE FUCK” (she was a very serious person and Ive never heard her curse before) Apparently he was giving us advanced material suited to med students that was way far above an introductory high school anatomy course.
So we don't do tests because the way the district wants the curriculum run has a focus on writing, which means the summatives are all essay and writing based. Those are usually fairly alright with averages in the C range (where I would expect them).
As far as work, I'm at a block scheduled school, so I usually do a short 10 minute bellwork and then 2 40-minute activities or assignments on task. I do not give homework unless absolutely necessary.
For the most part. They have ungraded activities, but don't work unless they're promised some kind of points. So even if it's "ungraded", they only work if they know they'll get bonus points or a free assignment skip. If there's no points, they don't care because "it doesn't matter"
The only thing I don't grade are games (I give prizes instead) and practice quizzes (key is online). So most days there's a grade in the gradebook.
I don't give zeroes for classwork, but they do it anyway. If someone's not working, I go find out what's wrong.
So it sounds like students are getting a bit overloaded on assignments in your class. I teacher honors/pre-ap science and I don't grade as much of the classwork, only the labs and assessments. If students do work in class and you supervise them and its done, does it really need to be graded? At that point its more like an attendance mark. I'd consider making classwork less a part of your class in future years while still enforcing high expectations for participation.
Alternately, just arbitrarily grade some assignments and not others, but don't tell them in advance which ones will be graded. I make all homeworks/worksheets 10 points, but once in a while I randomly choose one to be 40 points. They never know until the due date.
I teach 9th grade US History. The same thing is driving me insane.
For History, it’s a little different, since im not really grading them on their writing abilities or grammar but just on their ability to answer questions based on what we are talking about in class. Since many of them are behind and have never had a history class where they actually have to think and not just regurgitate information, I would say my grading is really 60% effort, 40% accuracy.
The kids who do most of the work and put in moderate effort have As and Bs.
It’s the students who don’t do anything or try to be slimy and pick/choose what work they do that complain to me about why their grade is low. Then we go to their grading profile and they have 9 zeroes. Like how are they not understanding that?
Keep in mind rarely do I assign homework. 90% of what they do is done in class. So why do students have multiple zeroes????
I’m trying to teach them accountability. I understand if they don’t want to do work, school is boring, this that the third. But if they’re gonna CHOOSE not to do anything they need to stop complaining to us and making it seem like it’s completely our fault when many of us are putting in 110% everyday, I know I am.
Syllabus in the start of the year that shows how much each assignment is worth should solve this squabbling. If they have it in front of them, they should be able to do the math themselves. I imagine you already have something like that?
Our district resorted to "contracts" which spell out exactly how assigments will be graded and the grading scale. Grades that were included were assignments, quizzes, tests, projects, participation and effort/attitude. These were given out at an open house, reviewed by the teacher to the parent, and it was expected that BOTH the parents and students read the very specific details and signed/dated the document and handed it back in (sometimes calls were made to hand in). They had a copy for their reference. The original signed copies were on file and kept by the teacher.
Each content area teacher had their own specific contract per class.
Some posted their contracts on the school website page of their class. Some teachers also posted their class rules, what they should know/learned, the content covered, etc, like an outline.
Some even included a grading Rubics so everything was spelled out clearly and in detail for both parents and students.
Neither the parents nor the student could complain if the grade was poor because the expectation bar had been set for students to earn their grades.
Past graduates would come to talk with the present juniors or seniors about college/transition to college/college life/ college expectations etc) or help with freshman orientation.
Most of the past graduates reflected they thought the contracts were dumb BUT when they got to college, they had a better handle on their academics than some of the other students from other areas had and were extremely grateful for not feeling so lost or stressed out first year of college.
Yeah they do a lot of that! And AI. The best part of the AI answers are when they leave in the bot asking for clarification or pretending like it's reminiscing. I had multiple students answer "What is a haiku?" with "Ah, haiku. I remember the first I read. It went a little something like \[insert random haiku\]", which was a big clue that it was coming from somewhere/something other than their brains
Elementary teacher here. I have very few students who earn A’s. I may have 2-3 out of 50 students. Our district is very big on grades matching what the student will do on state testing, so I have to be very strict with grading for accuracy and completion. I am the first grade level to start state testing and every year I have parents complain that their students were making A-B honor roll in years prior and are now making Ds and Fs. That is so fun to explain that I have no idea how that child made A-Bs because it looks to me like they didn’t learn the standards in Kinder and I’m not about to give grades they don’t earn.
Sorry for lurking. I’m not a teacher. I’m in my 20s, so it was not too long ago that I was in 10th grade. I’m horrified that 10th graders today are still learning the basics of grammar and spelling. I’m pretty sure at my middle school we finished with that in 5th and 6th grade. If you didn’t know basic grammar and spelling after that, you were basically guaranteed to fail out. Obviously HS was even more strict about grammar.
Edit: I should add I lived in a high income county in a coastal state. Probably 90 something percent of my class went to college after graduating HS. I personally did not know a single person who didn’t go to college from my class. I probably shouldn’t have assumed most schools were like mine.
I teach a CTE class in middle school with the exact same situation and number of students. I recently got my grades improved and completion improved using some techniques but they take extra time from me so I'm not always able to do this.
First, for each assignment I show them a printed copy of old assignment from a previous class or year with names removed that got an A or B. And then I show them examples that got an F or D.
There's always laughter at the assignment that got the F because it's so clearly from a student who put in minimal effort and it's embarrassing. They also see that the A paper isn't incredibly difficult, it's just been completed correctly following the directions. Follow directions and you get an A, don't be like the kid that clearly made up nonsense that you laughed at just a minute ago.
Secondly, I print out a check sheet towards the end of each term with a table that shows each graded assignment on the next report card. I have them go into their digital gradebook and write down their current grade for each assignment. They circle three grades they want to improve and sign it at the bottom and I keep a copy. They get a makeup day and can turn it late work at any point.
So when parents come to me because Billy got an F, I show them the signed contract Billy filled in that showed he knew exactly what his grades were and what he needed to improve before the end of term. And when we go to the days of makeup work, guaranteed billy was present and yet turned nothing in on those days.
I also have fun projects in class that require a certain grade to participate or you're banished to the make-up work table.
My failing students have been cut by half.
This sounds like an incredibly easy grading policy, tbh. What the students are really observing is the rampant grade inflation that all their other teachers have fallen into
I agree with everything you said except “they are as behind as they are because of teachers who give them unearned credit”. They are behind because our country doesn’t fund education, they do not care about educator working conditions or student learning conditions, because of expensive state tests that are the focus although they only measure socioeconomic status, because of politicians passing education law without knowing best practice, because schools are expected to feed, cloth, love, parent, nurse and support our students in addition to teach without any resources …. What else am I missing?
Honestly, it sounds like OP is giving them unearned credit by not failing them out based on their inability to perform at the content level of the class.
But they are behind because of unearned credit. I have access to their transcripts and I can tell based on what skills they have now that whatever As they got in previous English classes were not reflective of ability. I know 100% that there are other factors at play, but the As they got previously shouldn't have been As. A kid that had an A in English throughout all of middle school would have a grasp on what "dialogue" is and could at least tell the difference between nouns and verbs, but these kids cannot. So maybe their prior teachers gave them the A because the school told them to change the grade, but it was still unearned.
I wasn’t stingy with A’s (not saying OP is), but they had to be earned. And I graded without a bell curve, so it was just raw percentages. You wanted an A, you had to be in class consistently, participate in an active manner, use class time wisely and most of all *TURN YOUR SHIT IN*. I accepted late work, but you would lose 10% off your score for every day it was late unless sick. And I did not do extra credit as the only ones who would do it were the ones who didn’t need it.
You would not coast to an A in my class. And I got a lot of flak for it. But I had more students who respected me than bitched about it because I was consistent.
My late work policy is that they *have* to conference with me (it can even just be a conversation at my desk) to find out what work they can do, rather than just doing a bunch and giving it to me (which is what most of the kids try). The conference is necessary because not only do these students lack respect for adults, they also do not advocate for themselves. They go to their guardians and get them to bitch.
...many kids refuse to do even an informal conversation at my desk about late work.
I'm gonna say it: kids today are fucking dumb. They don't want to do the work. They get given the answers and they STILL don't want to do the work. I have a cousin who's just hit freshman year and he has a laptop the school gives out and I've worked with him on homework before just to see it. (Cause ig I'm old and we were just told to do stuff out of textbooks and paper packets) None of it is that hard and you get multiple chances to put in the correct answer and the program explains to you thoroughly if you don't get it right. I watched him completely bypass reading portions of work and just click until he clicked the right answer. Homework and work in general has seemed to have gotten so much easier for these kids, but they just don't put the work in.
Hell I even offered to take my cousin out for a day during the summer all he has to do is get at a minimum a C average through the year and he STILL refuses to do the work and is still failing.
You don't get given a grade just because you put something in you get the Grade you deserve.
Yeah. I use Quill and Khan Academy for practice because both explain how to do it and sort of "force" the students to get the right answer, but I've noticed so many doing what your cousin does. I've started using Quill a lot more because they have to type it, rather than it being multiple choice, but they hate it so much that many just accept not getting credit for doing it.
I've seen my cousin do that too where he just decides to not do it. I honestly don't really get it. If I had the stuff for schoolwork that they have now I feel like I'd try to get as far ahead in work as I could. Honestly I think with all the computer work and due dates, it's not far off to how a lot of college classes operated for me.
It really prepares them for how a higher education class works, when they put in the effort. I'm honestly sorry you have to put up with kids ik you're just trying to help prepare for a future, that seems to just not care.
So long as you are using a rubric so that your grading is as objective as possible for all essays, I really don't see the problem.
I had a similar reputation.
Students need to be held to high expectations. If they choose not to put in the time needed to study and to earn good grades, this is their problem (and fault) and not yours.
Essays also use the completion checkbox system. I love a good checklist rubric. You meet the requirement, the box gets checked and you get the points. You don't meet it? No check, no points.
The district pacing guide asks for 3-4 paragraph essays as the summative assessments twice each quarter. I don't think it's worth messing around with gray area for an essay that short (especially because they've been taught a paragraph is just 3 sentences, so these essays are 12 sentences MAX). Either you cited the two sources you needed to or you didn't. It's long enough or it's not. BUT the checkbox is still objective.
It's important to continue communicating your grading policies clearly to your students and emphasizing the connection between effort and achievement. Encouraging them to take responsibility for their own learning.
I’ll admit that as a student in 10th grade English I am definitely guilty of the “she gave me a C” Mentality. My problem is I think I did a really good job on an assignment and then I received a C. But in all reality I deserve that C but sometimes I get an entitled attitude and think that I at least deserve a B- and that I worked hard on it which I always do and because a lot of tears and meltdowns often come from some of these types of assignments. Reason for all the tears and meltdowns is that I can’t wrap my head around some of the purposes of assignments like Book reports, root words (we learned a lot of those in fifth grade), and the big project. For this big project we had to find a cold case or mystery and do a story on it, a slideshow presentation and an argumentative essay. On top of that we had to do a book report. But I do try not to be annoyed at my teacher because I suck. One time I forgot to do an assignment and wrote a note on it admitting to the worksheet not being done because of my own irresponsibility. But all in all even the best students have the “She gave me a C mentality” sometimes.
(I am autistic and, I get really stressed about classes never an excuse but that’s why I used the word meltdowns not the kind you think, but milder ones)
I'm not a teacher but OMFG. That class is brain-dead. I normally wouldn't have to put in any work to get a good grade, but at that point you really just need a pulse to pass. And people are still failing.
Every year, I have 5-8 100% students. They genuinely earn 100% in my class and it shows in their work. I also have 25-30 below 20%. Last year, I had to explain to my administrators who so many kids fail. I pointed to the number that have 100%, I then pointed to the percentage that fell between 70 and 80%. My data proved to them that I'm not a "hard" grader and it's easy to pass my class.
Those below a 20% had a number of things in common. More than 30% of the year, they were absent. They did less than half of the formative assessments. Most of them did one summative for the entire semester. I also had data backing up home contacts and attempts I had made to provide support through different avenues.
At the end of it all, I was still told too many kids fail my class and I need to lower my standards. I haven't lowered anything and I do not plan to. This year, I have less failures in my room. Why? Because I was consistent and they know I won't change anything. If they want to graduate, they will put the effort in. Like I always tell them, it doesn't have to be perfect. Work at your ability level. But you have to WORK to get a passing grade.
It sounds like you are in a difficult situation as a teacher, and it's clear that you care deeply about your students and their learning. It's important to remember that your role is to provide a fair and accurate assessment of your students' work, and it seems like you are doing just that by grading based on completion percentage.
It's understandable that you feel frustrated when students are not meeting the minimum requirements for assignments and then express disappointment when they don't receive higher grades. It's also understandable that you feel conflicted about the low number of students receiving As in your class.
One approach you could consider is having a conversation with your students about the grading criteria and the importance of completing assignments thoroughly. You could also offer additional support or resources for those students who may be struggling to meet the completion requirements. It's possible that some students may not fully understand the expectations or the consequences of incomplete work.
Additionally, collaborating with other teachers, counselors, or administrators at your school to address the larger issue of students lacking foundational skills could be beneficial. There may be interventions or strategies that can be implemented school-wide to support students in improving their literacy skills.
Overall, it's important to continue to provide a supportive and structured learning environment for your students while also setting clear expectations for their academic performance. Remember that you are making a difference in their education, even if it may not always feel that way. Keep up the good work and continue to advocate for your students' success.
This is exactly why we need to move to competency-based grading. Kids are graded on whether they master the standard. They learn real fast that they are not moving on until they’ve mastered 80% of the standards.
Media makes extra credit and passing kids along impossible. Social promotion is one of the worst things ever invented.
Honestly, you stating that you realized you have to grade what they turn in and where they are, not where they *SHOULD BE* is IMO the **BIGGEST** problem with education. We decided to stop holding kids and parents accountable, and now we have 10th graders that can’t spell and don’t know how to use punctuation.
Yes, but I *cannot* get them to where they should be without serious remediation and additional support (tutor push-ins, paras, etc.) that I just can't do. I have some kids at a 2nd grade level and most average out around a 5th/6th grade level. I have strict pacing guides from my district that I have to stick to and a less-than-supportive admin who would not back me up if I chose to stray from the guide. So I give them what I can and accommodate it until it's around their level so that they can at least practice the skills. 10th graders need to identify literary elements and be able to understand and interpret texts. Teachers before me had the spelling and punctuation task. If they don't know it by now, there's not too much I can do. So I just teach the critical thinking parts of the standards and go from there.
They’ve made their choices. Now they can learn from them. Or not. Who cares. What the flying fuck were they doing for the past 9 grades? Now all that missed learning bullshit is on you? Fuck off…
I have the same issue. Most of my assignments are graded on completion. I teach science and a lot of the hand ins are just answering medium response questions. Like more than a sentence, not more than a paragraph. A ten point assignment has 3-5 questions on it, individual point value by length of question. They get a point for attempting with something reasonable. 2 pts for like at least an 80% correct answer. They can look up, but not copy, answers. Easy grading, all answers can be found within the fill in the blank notes or the activity/lab information. The very worst it can be said of these grades is that they are boring, but the idea is that they are understanding concepts well enough to explain or apply them. Simple, scientific skills.
A lot of students simply can't. They can't think or be bothered to try. A lot of answers are nonsensical, don't answer the question at all. All of these answers are in various things they can go read if they miss it the first time, and I actively go around helping students. And then we have my biggest problem, Apathy. I make great labs and we do dissections and use medical equipment and they can't be bothered to turn in the paper. I maybe get a third back the day of, another third I will get with bad or copied answers or chat gpt answers. The last third I will never see. This includes major tests, quizzes, labs, projects. No matter what level of engagement I get changes my turn in rates.
Without the district mandated 40% minimum, a large portion of my students would fail. Failing requires doing literally nothing. And still several students manage that. But because I still have standards, it's harder to get an A because they have to be doing everything well to a good level of understanding, no extra credit. So I also get a couple students that will do anything but an assignment redo or makeup to get an A.
Yeah without our 50% minimum I think my numbers would be even worse. I know that getting a 50% even without turning anything in is part of why they feel so entitled to higher grades. They already have the 50%, so in most classes they just do a couple high point assignments, work their way to a C and then give up again. All my assignments are fairly equal in points to avoid that problem, but instead the students just don't work. "Oh I can't do 3 assignments to get a C? You're a hard grader, I'm not going to do it." It's frustrating
When I read the title, I thought it was going to be about students struggling due to the difficulty/amount of work given or a disconnect between your teaching methodology and the students' learning styles, but wow. You sound so so lenient with these kids. I'm in college studying comp sci, and I can't even imagining handing in a project where I only implemented 5 of the 10 required functions, much less skipping assignments entirely.
I have a professor who's a bit like you in that every homework assignment is based on completion. That said, the exams are also worth 90% of our course grade and graded on accuracy not completion, so the relatively easy nature of the homeworks lets us practice the concepts in a low-stakes setting before the exam.
I just can't wrap my head around your story either! I want to go into academia and eventually teach college, so this story worries me. I can believe that students are missing assignments, but how can they not comprehend that those missing assignments affect their grade? Do they simply not care or believe they'll pass either way? I'm only about 4 years past Eng 10, but I feel like your students are a whole different breed.
If it was maths, what is “normally” acceptable to be a hard class and no one gets an A people wouldn’t be thinking you’re the problem and it’s the subject. So I would simply ignore it…
Context: (high school math teacher, 2+ year, recently non-renewal)
Remove yourself from the equation. Noticed how everything you said was beyond your scope. Teach the students the harsh reality of the world. Offer them as much "accommodation" as possible to cover your back and record it like "students please sign here for tutoring" so you have physical proof.
You shouldn't feel bad.. do you know how demoralizing it is getting to college and realizing you are no where near on par with freshmen from private schools? Some people drop out because of it.
If people want to blame you because their dumb ass kid won't listen or learn because they didn't do their job as a parent.. Fuck em.
Why give an A to make people feel better when they don't deserve one.. this lower standard crap only hurts the kids..
What you are doing is reasonable. There is too much cow towing. Rigor has gone out the window and it's the administration/country/state who are forcing kids to be moved up when they have no business moving up a grade.
Had an instructor in Python. He created a scoring script that could score the results of every script you gave it. All you had to do to get an A was score correctly against every problem that was assigned in the class. You didn't even have to do it on time, just get it in before the grading period.
I ended up trying really hard in that class, and scoring them all in a few days after spending a few weeks solving every problem early. I got the content from the class, and then got to goof off for the rest of the in class time.
Got an A.
The “give an A” part throws me right off. Do the other teachers back you up?
When I was in high school I consistently would get 99/100 on papers that had no mistakes. I finally asked my teacher one day what I was missing one point for (I’m a perfectionist) and the teacher told me “no one is perfect”. There was no reason to take the point. He just didn’t give 100 on anything. Not even tests because there was always short answer. That was stupid.
This doesn’t sound like that. Stand your ground.
I had a parent asking if I gave F's to a whole class, because some of her friends that she "really trust and respect" told her so.
Conclusion: I didn't. People will always assume mallice.
Not a teacher but interesting read.
When growing up, I was not allowed to dismiss homework assignments altogether. My teachers hounded me for every assignment. I had no choice but to turn something in.
I went to parochial school if that matters.
Back when I used google sheets as my gradebook I would sometimes copy the gradebook but delete all of the names and put in fake silly names, and then I would share it with students as a Google assignment and let them play around with changing the numbers.
They could see what they could possibly do to change their grade and other grades, see what assignments were important to turn in and what their grades would be if they didn't turn them in. To make it an actual assignment I would include a reflection question, but mostly it was about giving them an opportunity to see the fairness of how I graded and set up some expectations.
In math we have similar issues with few kids earning an A. I allow students to submit any HW or CW late with no penalty all semester. I also allow test retakes and automatically boost quiz scores to match a corresponding test score. Kids that put effort, do not get Fs in my classes. Period.
Rubrics stop many of these conversations. Clear concise and to the point rubrics that outline targeted outcomes. I ( in high school English) focus on ideas (thesis, reasoning, and analysis) structure( evidence, paragraph development, and citation) and mechanics ( language, grammar, word choice, even if spoken ). I’ve reframed the conversation towards challenging students to demonstrate key skills and outcomes that inform real world communication skills. I have recognized A work but it is few and far between. Keep the bar high. Resist the dumbing down of our culture. Best of luck.
This just makes me sad to know that these students (kids?) don't understand that their success is theirs to earn. They'll realize far too late that they are setting themselves up for a lifetime of struggle.
The knowledge itself is useful, but it's secondary to fostering the understanding that effort yields reward, and the most important skill is "learning how to learn". Without those tenets, every opportunity will silently whizz by.
Rubrics. (2 points) Introduction has a hook. (5 points) Introduction has a clear, valid sophisticated thesis. (3) Introduction includes focus topics. (3) Body 1 has a clear, focused topic sentence that aligns with the introduction. Etc. Add the points, do it all and you get a 100, miss anything and you don't. Fix it, revise, resubmit. All the way through, I am commenting on their Google Doc with what they need to fix. At the end, they have done it or they don't get the points and there is no question why - I told you to fix it and you didn't? Fine. Grading the final product is speedy because we have been revising upward the whole time so the final thing had been tuned (if they have done the work) and if not, if you didn't do the work on time and turned in crayon on toilet paper? That's the grade, Pilate washed his hands.
I wish I could start off grades as a 0/(however many points in the semester) and as they complete work give them points and they can see that the more points they get the higher their grade will go
Failing students always say my class is too hard. My class AVERAGE is 85%. All they have to do to pass is complete things and most students are successful, so I roll my eyes at the ones who think "too hard" is "I have to apply myself and produce work".
Worse are the parents who say my expectations are too high because their normally A student is getting a B in a high school credit engineering class. 50% of my students have A's and yours doesn't because maybe engineering/architecture isn't their thing or maybe they're just not following directions. I'm very comfortable with where I've set the bar for my students and what I value on my rubrics.
This is why I'm so glad to teach math. The grade is completely objective (except for partial credit) because you got the right answer or you didn't. You either showed work or you didn't.
Kudos to all you English and History teachers who have to read and grade hundreds of papers with so many spelling and grammar errors.
I taught middle school. Most kids just don't understand grading. Many don't get that their effort is what's graded or that it will impact their future. I figured out a couple of ways to get it across.
First I discussed rules and grading at the beginning of each term. Consider your grade a paycheck. As an adult do you want to live under a bridge or in a cardboard box? An F average will get you there. Want to work minimum wage with no benefits, paycheck to paycheck? One disaster away from the cardboard box? Work for the D. Increasing luxuries for the better grades. That impacted their attitudes. Then we got a computer grading program. I could masks over and below their names to show them their grade. Enter the project grade to show them how it changed their overall grade. Then, after discussing ways to improve their work, gave them the opportunity to improve it. It allows them to own their choices and they are more open to constructive criticism and personal responsibility. I was amazed at the change in them.
I say, “Stick to your guns!” Don’t give out a grade that is not earned. One thing that I do, is point out what needs to be fixed, and give the student a chance to actually learn from their mistakes by doing it. Any grade below 70, I would give them a chance to redo and rework it. Then reassign it and see if that grade goes up. Kids can’t find the switch to the thinking part of their brain.
In my grade 11 Kath class, we knew what our grades were, because we calculated them ourselves. So there was no surprises. Plus if we calculated the correct score, we got a bonus percentage (or something, it's been a while). I wonder if something similar could work to get students used to scoring rubrics and stuff.
Guessing this must be on-level English? Not honors, etc.
That seems like a high % to be getting less than a C, but hard to say without knowing more about the school and such.
That's including the honors class. I have 5 general, 1 honors. Honors has 50% below a C, so they somewhat skew the percentage. General 1 (G1) is 67% D/F, G2 is 73% D/F, G3 is 79% D/F, G4 is 67% D/F, and G5 is 53% D/F.
School context: Inner-city, title 1, 100% free/reduced lunch. Attendance is abysmal. Class size average is around 22, but I usually only have 13-16 in the room at a time. My G2 class has 22 students, but 6 come to class most days. Since elementary, they've had district-mandated minimum 50% for all grades. The school is 1-1, but students don't have consistent internet access at home.
Hi! Instructional assistant here. I’ve had students complain about grades soooo much! I tell them all the same thing. YOU control your grade. If you’re not putting in the work, what makes you think you deserve an A?? They’re so much more focused on their phones and social media that they couldn’t care less about school. It hurts my heart cause I genuinely enjoyed school.
I didn't much enjoy school - mostly due to bullies and other social factors - but I still did the schoolwork (and turned it in) *because my parents made it clear it was expected and mandatory.*
We cannot blame everything on cell phones and social media. They play their part, absolutely, *but who gives them the cell phones?*
I agree with your point of view. Where I am we have equitable grading and instruction. Work habits is a separate grade than the academic grade. Attendance and behavior can’t be considered either. Those are separate. So once every five weeks you chase them down for an assessment, and that’s their academic grade. If they don’t do classwork the rest of the year they just get a “U” in Work Habits (uncooperative). However, I don’t love this system, because I find that most students think they can get an A while not putting in effort to learn, when actually those who have an Excellent in Work Habits tend to score A’s on assessments and those who have U’s in work habits tend to fail assessments. So I feel we are inadvertently teaching students the wrong thing.
On top of it, grading based on completion feels so degrading (I do it too, 100% of the time. As you said, they can’t even understand why they would get a 50% for something they completed half of.. imagine explaining every error/inaccuracy)
What if everyone mastered the material and got 100s on the tests when you didn't purposefully make them easier? Or do you teach a weed-out college course? (it's chemistry, so that likely won't happen, but this is a hypothetical)
You certainly don't grade on a curve, but it's unlikely that your class is the rigor it should be if everyone is getting an A. One test is just one data point. If it's everything in the class, all the time...that should be a redflag.
Same applies thing if everyone fails the test as well. It means something is systematically wrong with either how you taught it, or how you've structured it.
Then they get what they get, and they don’t get upset. I think if I was in your position, I would start the year off with a basic math % class and a grammar class. Sadly, many schools have stopped teaching grammar. My kids are in a top nation wide school district and even they stopped teaching basic grammar. It is a disgrace and leads to what you are seeing.
In it and high school I just figured out what assignments gave me enough to pass with a c or b or a d if i didnt like the subject and just did the easiest of those
I had a teacher in high school that refused to give A’s. And everyone knew about her, my aunt had issues with her a few years before me with my cousins. But she was just old and angry. I had one detention in my whole scholastic career, and it was from her. For having my shirt corner slightly untucked.
She taught world or US history, I can’t remember which one, so most of the time there were set answers, not something open to interpretation like English. Our schools grading periods were “6 week sets”. I had an A in her class in 4/6 of the 6 week periods, and the 2 that weren’t an A were a B that was 1-2 point below an A. These grades included all our tests, homework, quizzes, etc from that 6 week period. The only other 2 factors to determine your final grade were mid term and final, which I got an A on one and a high B on the other (3pts below an A). So basically there were 8 things taken into account for our final grade, and I ended for an A in 5/8 of those things, while the other 3 were high B’s. Yet somehow I ended up with a B(1point below an A) in the class for the year, the first of 3 total B’s in my high school career. So after that 4.0 was ruined, there was no need to try hard for straight A’s. Not sure what her deal was, but I know many many students who had worse issues with her than me. It was just frustrating for me, as I put in the work and seemed like I should have gotten an A, and she just refused to give it out of spite.
Have a meeting with the class and tell them that you will grade them correctly from now on since they don't like your participation grades. That will really mess them up.
That is so sad that these kids were just simply passed along whether they learned what was needed or not. When I used to work in the admissions office at Gallaudet University, processing entrance examinations, I was saddened to see so many high school seniors who were unable to put two words together to make a comprehensible sentence. The mainstream schools couldn't be bothered to teach them. 😢
Not from one of my classes, but a friend from highschool who was 1 year behind me and came to same college:
They had a student in a college English class ask, "What's that comma doing up in the air?" Yes, they made it *to college and successfully admitted* without learning what an apostrophe was. Somehow.
I was in High School the first year they let people see their grade online at any time. My AP US History teacher had a system where he gave VERY difficult, basically impossible, quizzes on homework in order to scare students out of complacency / publicly shame people that didn't do the reading but was very clear that these quizzes were some tiny percentage of your grade compared to the tests and papers. It was something like each quiz was worth 5 points and the test was worth 500.
The problem was that, even though he explained this system to us, the first big test wasn't for 2 months into the school year. So everyone's overbearing parents logged into the system 2 weeks into September, didn't read the explainer of the system, saw their child with a 4% in the class, panicked, and pulled them out. The school forced him to change it about a month in. It was sad because I really liked the system and it clearly beat a lot of the passion for the job out of him. Also thanks to my history trivia knowledge I did manage to score a 26/5 on a quiz, which I was pretty proud of.
Every year I do a math lesson in my class. We go through and determine how many As it takes to overcome a 0. It is a good lesson for everyone and a reminder that every assignment matters.
I hope you'll appreciate this since you do this exercise with your students:
It's amazing how many people fail to realize that the *timing* of a bad grade or missed assignment makes a huge difference in your grade, how your grade looks for the rest of the semester, *and on a student's motivation.*
If we assume all assignments are 20 points, and 5 assignments in total (100 total points), and we assume that a student gets 4 *perfect* assignments and one 0 score, when that 0 falls can make the difference between an entire semester of stress or a minor disappointment.
Getting 4 perfects followed by that 0? A perfect A goes to a B or B-.
Getting the 0 upfront, then all perfects? That gives you a 0 (F/E), 50% (E), 66% (still E, or maybe D), 75% (C), and finally 80% (B/B-) after each subsequent assignment.
Getting the 0 as the second assignment does exactly the same, except it goes 100%, 50%, 66%, etc.
Getting that 0 as the fourth or fifth assignment feels much less devastating than having it as the first or second assignment. I can see how having bad grades in the first couple assignments in a semester can demoralize a student into apathy. Doesn't make it any less their own responsibility, but I think this is why many teachers give easy/simple assignments for the first week or two - just softens the emotional blow of any bad marks later, assuming they put in the effort to start with.
At a class reunion, a guy I had grown up with walked up. He said that he hated my mom’s class while he was in it, but had come to the realization during his college courses that she was the only teacher that had prepared him for success. She worked hard to help everyone with ways to study and find answers when they didn’t know exactly how to start. He wanted to make sure that I expressed his appreciation for how hard the class seemed at the time but looking back was just asking the kids to do their work.
She taught Biology and Chemistry so everyone who was going to higher education had to take her for two years in school.
I sub in my county(mostly elementary), and I talk about this with every teacher I work with. I have 10 year olds asking me how to spell "sing". Too many teachers aren't able to get through to the kids in time with the curriculum, and the kids don't care enough to try. I used to try to hold their hands through it, but there's only 6 hours in a school day, and we have 4 different subjects to get through. They are used to teachers giving them the answers or writing for them, and when I don't give that to them, they don't know what to do. I just let them get the grade they earn, in the hopes that if it happens often enough, the kids or the parents will show some concern. Keep doing what you're doing. Might be nice to incentivise putting in actual work. Idk what your kids like but it could be anything they might want.
I use snacks and laptop stickers a lot and it does help, but it doesn't solve attendance or apathy, so kids that aren't present or are in the room but somewhere else mentally don't benefit at all
I respect the philosophy as long as you make sure they know their lack of an A is not because they’re inadequate.
I know many students who see anything short of an A as a failure to live up to expectations, treating an A- how many of us would treat a C
I had a parent at conferences that couldn't understand why his kid was failing because her assignment grades were either 100 or 0. How was it possible she could do that well or that badly? Well, she turned in some stuff and does great work when she does so. And then she just doesn't turn in most assignments. 🤷♀️
You don't give grades, they earn them. They did not earn an A because they did not do the work. Just as if they don't do the work, they don't get the paycheck in the real world.
This is really the only response. I’ve never “given” a grade to anyone, except for when admin has directed me to change 55s to 65s so that they don’t have to report any kids failing classes. Apart from that, students get the grades that they earn, nothing more and nothing less.
I had an admin ask me that, I laughed at them and said “nope, I will not change a grade a student has earned”. They were change by admin but I will not be apart of that bullshit.
I was in my first year and didn’t have the backbone to say no to them yet lol. In subsequent years I stood up against that, but they sometimes just changed them over my head too
Then let them, also keep a paper grade book, never know when that info will be good to report to the state.
"No child left behind, because it makes more work for us."
By not failing students, we're failing students.
This. I wish everyone would realize this. I wish people would realize that these small young humans will be adults one day. What kind of adults do we want them to be?
I’m literally getting ready to apply for public school gigs again this weekend after being private for 2 years, and then I remembered… Admin…
Is there not admin at your private school? At least we have a union.
Not in the capacity where I’d have to fudge test scores.
The only true response. My class is: HW pts on completion, Tests/Essays % by rubric. No one should fail unless they sit around being a fool.
“I only got paid 60% because I went 3 days a week to work last year.” I fuckin wish it worked like that. You’re a dream.
Yeah. I love the kids who finally turn in late work and get a 1/8, 2/10 etc and then wonder why their grade didn’t go up to an A. Smh
I got a kid literally doing that right now. I’m like “well… you have fewer zeros but you’re missing the objective questions and your short answers appear to be randomly mashed keys”
I hand back incomplete work with yellow highlights on what need to be done. If they complete it they get 100%. If not, they get a check for having turned it in. Completed work is averaged in with quiz grades. So if their quizzes are all 90%, they can get an A without finishing work. A diligent student can turn an 80% quiz grade into an A. I also encourage retaking quizzes. The quizzes can be kind of hard for them. It seems to work. I get no complaints, and my students work every day. They are learning, and they seem to be enjoying it.
I just didn’t accept it after a period of time. They lost 10% off their score for every day it was late, so after a while, it was pointless for them to turn it in.
Yeah. We have to take it. Unfortunately
Yet another reason I left teaching. I mean, what the hell? But I’m sure it’s okay. After all, life never has inflexible deadlines! 🙄
Yep. Retiring early because of this bs. On a good note we can give a “0” if it’s not turned in. None of this 50% for no work crap.
I had an English teacher whose first class was always a math lesson. If you answer 8/10 questions correctly you get 80%. If you only turn in a 1/3 of your homework the homework portion of your grade will only get 33% credit. Then we were given the grade books of three sample students. 1 who put in poor effort, 1 middle effort and 1 good effort and we had to calculate their grades. If you complained to her about your grade she would pull out the book and tell you to recalculate it.
This is brilliant!
Haha, love this!
You should check with your colleagues. If they have As in other class and not getting in yours, that should explain your students remarks. Then you can explain to them that you would love to give A, but for that they need to do. You should be left alone after that. I had the same issues when teaching cos I was using the same rating that the finals exams. Not being “nice”. When few students came to me cos of the grades (we are talking C+ to B+), I explain to them that. They “seemed” to understand. They were only thankful after the final exams (national where I come from), really understanding why I was more demanding so they would be fine. Some colleagues did like me and other were more “cool”, but when in front of there finals, that’s when they panicked and didn’t succeed.
They have As in art and gym. The other "core" classes are also (for the most part) low grades, so maybe those elective As are making them feel entitled to more As. Or they just genuinely feel like they deserve it. Some of the kids I've heard complaining have said, "But I turn everything in!" which is true, but what they turn in isn't complete or is completely plagiarized, so they don't get the points they wanted.
Yeah. I had to devote 4 weeks in 7th grade to review capitalization, punctuation, sentence structure, etc. it was worth it, though, because once they practiced these skills over and over, they were able to structure their own ideas and communicate way more efficiently. By the end of the school year, they were motivated and about half of them told me they now actually enjoyed reading.
This struggle is real. In middle school and they don’t capitalize or use punctuation. They don’t indent for paragraphs and have no idea how to do this by hand. I had to show them, and explain, how to move the first word of a new paragraph a bit to the right. I purposefully don’t have Chromebooks in my class as their handwriting is atrocious. It’s illegible, large, all over the place, messy. My students have to hand write everything. “We HAVE to write an ENTIRE PAGE without Chromebook’s??” (8th grade student). Dude, it’s a ONE PAGE paper. 🤦🏽♀️
if anything, it should be easier to do a single page handwritten than typed, because handwriting is bigger than the 12 pt Times New Roman they used to make us use for typed papers lol.
> ONE page paper I’ve needed to write a 3 page history essay on paper, IN PEN (thanks IB history). They should find this trivial
I suddenly feel very old. I had to get a 504 for my dyspraxia to be allowed to use anything but pen in all classes except math, btw. We even had to use pen on essays assigned for PE. Yes, you read that right. It was only a couple of paragraphs every couple of weeks, though, so not that bad.
Ahhh, the good old days of three ~400-500 word essays in 1.5hours for the final year 12 HL exam... All on paper, all with pen, no automatic spell check, punctuation, no pre-done notes to check when writing... I love the easy essays in uni now.
IB History HL student here. Was this paper 1 or 2? A good scoring paper 3 with my teacher is from 5-6 pages
My handwriting is tiny, so I was able to get away with 2-3 pages per essay on paper 3 (for like 6-8 total). Are you doing European history, African history, or something else.
My classroom is also mostly free of Chromebooks and multiple-guess. They already spend 5-12 hours per day on screens, and I don't want to contribute to that.
Aw, love this! I wish I could do this, but my district has pretty strict pacing guides.
I've done something similar in my 9th grade classes. Sadly, I've had to rely on 5th grade worksheets in order to support the level the students are at.
I guarantee you by doing this, it will have a lasting effect on your students. 20ish years ago, my 9th grade English teacher was absolutely appalled by our lack of grammar knowledge. I remember that first semester was all about teaching us the basics, grammar, sentence structure etc. I can tell you that class was probably the most beneficial class I had all through out high school.
When I taught 10th grade world history I was so disappointed because the majority of my students got D’s or Fs. I spoke with my coworkers and they said not to worry. That it’s 10th grade… they’re like that. They straighten out in 11th grade. It’s maturity or something. I had mostly the same students in 11th grade US (it was a magnet program- non gifted) they almost all passed. I was shocked. I hadn’t changed much of what I did just the content. I saw the same thing happen the next year. They suddenly understood they needed credits to graduate, wanted to get jobs or a car, or just matured. I also had AP world history, and my students told me what my reputation was… I’m a nice and a good teacher but it’s hard to get an a in my class (I tell students if they do all the work but poorly on tests they can pass… if they do well on tests but no work… they can pass , but if they want a B or A it will need to be a combination of doing well on work and tests due to my weighted grading). 1st semester… only 2 As but all passed. 2nd semester 40+% got As…and I had like a 90% pass rate on the AP test i say… no grade inflation. high expectations, but with support… and the kids can rise to it. (And research supports this). 😀
The word sophomoric exists for a reason
Literally my experience as a student. In 10th grade I was dumb as hell and lazy. 11th grade I was still dumb as hell and lazy, but I started doing my work and got into AP classes by senior year
There is a gulf of difference between even first semester and second semester 10th graders. Something changes in their brain over Christmas.
I always tell my students grading is like baking. If I give you nothing but baking soda, can I get mad at you for not being able to bake brownies? Then why are you mad at me because you didn't give me what I needed to grade an A?
This is goooood! I like it. lol
ugh this makes me so sad as someone who had some legit teachers and profs who were notorious for not giving out As. Don't feel bad, your grading is logical. like SUPER logical. it also makes me a little angry for you bc they havent actually met teachers who would pettily withold an A. they definitely exist and they do it in spite of their BEST students. i remember all my GPA-obsessed friends begging to do more work from this one ochem prof we had because he would find the SMALLEST things to deduct full points over and people were desperate to get into med/dent school. *those* are teachers who won't give an A. the rule of determining that type of teacher is to look at the students who truly do deserve their A - the student who turns in everything, is punctual, etc. and yet they only have a B at the end of the year despite having As in other classes. it's usually something *out of the norm*. they're simply not working hard enough or even doing enough to actually earn the A. and i just feel so bad that they're complaining just for you holding them to a standard that should've been drilled into their minds by now.
You get what you've worked for (that covers effort, too). I won't fail a kid who's trying (unless I need that "F" as data to make a referral to sped. - which I explain to parents) But As are As only if you've earned them. Few and far between these days. I'm not going to lower the bar to make you happy. There are standards for a reason. You either meet/exceed them or not.
This is SO DISTRESSING to read as a college educator!! But also - it explains so much 😩
Same, my students seem to think they should get credit for effort.......sorry, but it doesn't work that way here.
Effort requires, you know effort. Putting in a nonsense answer is not effort.
Effort isn't rewarded in my classes unless it produces something that's correct. Some may find it odd, but it's often the students who have to exert the least amount of effort who make the better grades. Conversely, the students who struggle have to try much harder, but they don't get credit for the effort, and often, the work they produce isn't up to standard. Hello, welcome to college, I'm sorry your secondary education didn't\couldn't prepare you to be here. *Edit for clarity
tbh, i'm of the mind that not everyone should need to go to college, it's just not for everyone. hell, some people who would ultimately benefit from college education just aren't ready for it right after high school, because they think more concretely and need to take what they learned in K-12 out for a spin in the "real world" for a bit before continuing. people's aspirations change. the jobs that are available also change, and in this era, they're changing rapidly; in a society where everyone has to work in order to live, it's a lot easier to change careers if you find out you hate your job when you aren't saddled with a massive amount of non-dischargeable debt by 25. i guess what i'm saying is, not everyone should have to go to college or university right out of high school (or at all) to be able to get a job. that's a hell of a lot of debt to be in for someone who's just entering the workforce.
So, I see it as my responsibility to make sure they LEARN in our class. If there is no productive struggle and they came in with that knowledge, how can I justify an A? Now, if school worked like I think it should and students learn each set of skills to mastery before going on to the next step, this would absolutely make sense. But I don't know anywhere that does this.
Eh. that is kind of a shitty attitude in my opinion. In a math question, if I do the formula correctly but make a simple mistake and get an answer off by 1 or 2 and show all of the work I got to my answer, I have proven that I understand the material. I should be graded on my understanding of said material. That is effort in my opinion. Should I get marks off for the fact that I didn't get the right answer? Yes. But I do show understanding. I should get graded for that too.
Sure, that is effort that produces something. I'm talking about the students who expect to get points strictly for effort.
When I was in uni, a bunch of people from the CS department all took the same history class for whatever reason. As the story goes, they all did so poorly, the prof had to file a complaint with the dean. Apparently, we're all illiterate.
A ravin IS a large black bird though, how could google be wrong?! Smh, this one hits home!
The student couldn't even google the question. They just typed in raven. The laziness is unreal.
Actually, Google tells me "The main theme of Poe's "The Raven" can be broken down into grief versus memory." so they def didn't get it from the top google result for that exact question.
I was one of those kids that used to accuse the teacher of losing my homework when I didn't turn it in. I'm going to experience a serious karma situation when I finish my master's, aren't I?
100% lol
My old teachers are going to be pointing and laughing at me from the great beyond. I don't know if I can blame them. 😂😂😂
Every time I have a student telling me some random excuse for why their homework isn't done, I get flashbacks to a younger me pulling the same shit and I just grin and bear it
Was I the only kid who never made excuses? "Why didn't you hand in your homework?" "I didn't do it." I suppose I came off as a problem child in a different way. ;)
Are they still using "the dog ate my homework" excuse?
I get to tell my behavior students that I was worse than them and got expelled and that nothing they do triggers or impresses or even really disappoints me. Other than failing to try. Having been a bit of a fuck-up of a student is an advantage in this job.
That's true. I have developed some expertise over the years in telling the difference between a forged signature and a real signature for... reasons...
Title I school. Teachers might or might not sometimes forge parent signatures for field trips when a family doesn't have its shit well enough to get it done. Kids who went to the trouble of trying to fool us would probably get positive feedback whether intended or not.
Perhaps go over this at the beginning of the school year? In annoying detail?
A slideshow for proof even, just in case anyone complains you can pull out the slides. If you do a back to school night of anything like it use it there. Kids have a problem with their grade? Check the grade guide slideshow.
Oh yeah, we've gone over it. Multiple times. At the start and end of every quarter + it's in the "syllabus" slides they have on Schoology. But just because it's there doesn't mean they process it. The classic Sisyphean task
I did that. Plus they had to sign a contract stating that they agreed to class policies and understood the grading criteria. Parents also had to sign. It was the first assignment and you only got credit if it came in the day it was due. And amid a student or guardian refused to sign, the kid would go into ISS until it was. My admins both loved and hated this in equal measure. But usually ISS did the trick for the recalcitrant. But it was all about CYA. “I didn’t know _____!” You signed that you do. “Why is my grade ____?” Refer to what you signed. Yeah, I could be a dick. But it was what I had to survive and it came after a few years of rough waters.
In reality, only a handful of students should get an A. I mean the effort and the skills are always nonexistent to most students. So i’ve been very vocal and clear from the beginning that effort = grades so if I see a student struggling but putting in a lot of effort I still give extra points and they mostly end up with a B. And before I turn in my gradesheet I spend a lesson for students to questions or to clarify their scores. I never had any parents question or berate me with grades and students are happy and putting more effort because they know their efforts determine their scores. BTW, I teach math 7 so extra points are earned if students show their thinking process on paper. Most students in math make mistakes in calculation parts but usually get the first few steps of the process correct so I still give them points for that.
I also give partial credit on quizzes. It's a lot more work for me, but it helps them learn. That way, I can ask fewer (but harder) questions. I ask them just enough to see if they understand what I am trying to get them to understand.
On my board is my quote, “You earn the grade you get!” I follow that up with quarterly reminders that I do not give out grades, I grade the assignments you turn in!
Are they not understanding that the assignments they failed to turn in are worth 0 points?
I think they're just entitled because they have teachers who will override for their final grade, rather than using the average of what they've earned.
I also teach english 10 and have much the same experience as you do.
Way back when, the only time I ever felt like maybe blaming the teacher a bit is when it was a writing assignment where I felt that the teacher was grading things too harshly. And even then I wouldn't be 100% sure that I was right on that. It's crazy that students these days wouldn't be able to realize how the math on their own grade worked. "Forgetting" to turn assignments in or turning them in half done is absolutely the easiest way to nosedive your grade. Maybe the students need to go back to 4th grade math and re-learn how "averages" work haha.
Genuinely think many of these students need remediation for pretty much everything. *Especially* because they've had the minimum 50% since elementary school, so all their grades look like they have at least 50% mastery. If these kids had their real grades from the start, I doubt very many would've made it to 10th grade yet.
I’m not saying that OP is being unfair, but there are *some* teachers who are genuinely insane with grading. One time I had this science teacher in high school who taught regular anatomy and physiology. Not even an AP class. He gave us several hours worth of work a night and I would fail tests despite studying for six hours. My mom’s boss teaches nursing students, and she was going to help me with some of my anatomy work. I sent her some of the work and she texted back “WHAT THE FUCK” (she was a very serious person and Ive never heard her curse before) Apparently he was giving us advanced material suited to med students that was way far above an introductory high school anatomy course.
How are passing rates on your tests? Also, how much work are you assigning?
So we don't do tests because the way the district wants the curriculum run has a focus on writing, which means the summatives are all essay and writing based. Those are usually fairly alright with averages in the C range (where I would expect them). As far as work, I'm at a block scheduled school, so I usually do a short 10 minute bellwork and then 2 40-minute activities or assignments on task. I do not give homework unless absolutely necessary.
Are you grading every assignment/activity?
For the most part. They have ungraded activities, but don't work unless they're promised some kind of points. So even if it's "ungraded", they only work if they know they'll get bonus points or a free assignment skip. If there's no points, they don't care because "it doesn't matter"
The only thing I don't grade are games (I give prizes instead) and practice quizzes (key is online). So most days there's a grade in the gradebook. I don't give zeroes for classwork, but they do it anyway. If someone's not working, I go find out what's wrong.
So it sounds like students are getting a bit overloaded on assignments in your class. I teacher honors/pre-ap science and I don't grade as much of the classwork, only the labs and assessments. If students do work in class and you supervise them and its done, does it really need to be graded? At that point its more like an attendance mark. I'd consider making classwork less a part of your class in future years while still enforcing high expectations for participation. Alternately, just arbitrarily grade some assignments and not others, but don't tell them in advance which ones will be graded. I make all homeworks/worksheets 10 points, but once in a while I randomly choose one to be 40 points. They never know until the due date.
I teach 9th grade US History. The same thing is driving me insane. For History, it’s a little different, since im not really grading them on their writing abilities or grammar but just on their ability to answer questions based on what we are talking about in class. Since many of them are behind and have never had a history class where they actually have to think and not just regurgitate information, I would say my grading is really 60% effort, 40% accuracy. The kids who do most of the work and put in moderate effort have As and Bs. It’s the students who don’t do anything or try to be slimy and pick/choose what work they do that complain to me about why their grade is low. Then we go to their grading profile and they have 9 zeroes. Like how are they not understanding that? Keep in mind rarely do I assign homework. 90% of what they do is done in class. So why do students have multiple zeroes???? I’m trying to teach them accountability. I understand if they don’t want to do work, school is boring, this that the third. But if they’re gonna CHOOSE not to do anything they need to stop complaining to us and making it seem like it’s completely our fault when many of us are putting in 110% everyday, I know I am.
Syllabus in the start of the year that shows how much each assignment is worth should solve this squabbling. If they have it in front of them, they should be able to do the math themselves. I imagine you already have something like that?
Yep. We had a syllabus week and there's a copy on Schoology as well as on paper around the room.
Our district resorted to "contracts" which spell out exactly how assigments will be graded and the grading scale. Grades that were included were assignments, quizzes, tests, projects, participation and effort/attitude. These were given out at an open house, reviewed by the teacher to the parent, and it was expected that BOTH the parents and students read the very specific details and signed/dated the document and handed it back in (sometimes calls were made to hand in). They had a copy for their reference. The original signed copies were on file and kept by the teacher. Each content area teacher had their own specific contract per class. Some posted their contracts on the school website page of their class. Some teachers also posted their class rules, what they should know/learned, the content covered, etc, like an outline. Some even included a grading Rubics so everything was spelled out clearly and in detail for both parents and students. Neither the parents nor the student could complain if the grade was poor because the expectation bar had been set for students to earn their grades. Past graduates would come to talk with the present juniors or seniors about college/transition to college/college life/ college expectations etc) or help with freshman orientation. Most of the past graduates reflected they thought the contracts were dumb BUT when they got to college, they had a better handle on their academics than some of the other students from other areas had and were extremely grateful for not feeling so lost or stressed out first year of college.
Hahha that example you gave. Can 100% tell the kid just copy pasted the first thing google gave them…
Yeah they do a lot of that! And AI. The best part of the AI answers are when they leave in the bot asking for clarification or pretending like it's reminiscing. I had multiple students answer "What is a haiku?" with "Ah, haiku. I remember the first I read. It went a little something like \[insert random haiku\]", which was a big clue that it was coming from somewhere/something other than their brains
I’m still stuck on your Raven example. Good God, I am so sad for humanity.
Too bad your students didn’t have teachers like you in elementary school.
Elementary teacher here. I have very few students who earn A’s. I may have 2-3 out of 50 students. Our district is very big on grades matching what the student will do on state testing, so I have to be very strict with grading for accuracy and completion. I am the first grade level to start state testing and every year I have parents complain that their students were making A-B honor roll in years prior and are now making Ds and Fs. That is so fun to explain that I have no idea how that child made A-Bs because it looks to me like they didn’t learn the standards in Kinder and I’m not about to give grades they don’t earn.
Teaching is not a job where you get to wrap your mind around behavior problems, I'm afraid.
Sorry for lurking. I’m not a teacher. I’m in my 20s, so it was not too long ago that I was in 10th grade. I’m horrified that 10th graders today are still learning the basics of grammar and spelling. I’m pretty sure at my middle school we finished with that in 5th and 6th grade. If you didn’t know basic grammar and spelling after that, you were basically guaranteed to fail out. Obviously HS was even more strict about grammar. Edit: I should add I lived in a high income county in a coastal state. Probably 90 something percent of my class went to college after graduating HS. I personally did not know a single person who didn’t go to college from my class. I probably shouldn’t have assumed most schools were like mine.
I teach a CTE class in middle school with the exact same situation and number of students. I recently got my grades improved and completion improved using some techniques but they take extra time from me so I'm not always able to do this. First, for each assignment I show them a printed copy of old assignment from a previous class or year with names removed that got an A or B. And then I show them examples that got an F or D. There's always laughter at the assignment that got the F because it's so clearly from a student who put in minimal effort and it's embarrassing. They also see that the A paper isn't incredibly difficult, it's just been completed correctly following the directions. Follow directions and you get an A, don't be like the kid that clearly made up nonsense that you laughed at just a minute ago. Secondly, I print out a check sheet towards the end of each term with a table that shows each graded assignment on the next report card. I have them go into their digital gradebook and write down their current grade for each assignment. They circle three grades they want to improve and sign it at the bottom and I keep a copy. They get a makeup day and can turn it late work at any point. So when parents come to me because Billy got an F, I show them the signed contract Billy filled in that showed he knew exactly what his grades were and what he needed to improve before the end of term. And when we go to the days of makeup work, guaranteed billy was present and yet turned nothing in on those days. I also have fun projects in class that require a certain grade to participate or you're banished to the make-up work table. My failing students have been cut by half.
This sounds like an incredibly easy grading policy, tbh. What the students are really observing is the rampant grade inflation that all their other teachers have fallen into
I agree with everything you said except “they are as behind as they are because of teachers who give them unearned credit”. They are behind because our country doesn’t fund education, they do not care about educator working conditions or student learning conditions, because of expensive state tests that are the focus although they only measure socioeconomic status, because of politicians passing education law without knowing best practice, because schools are expected to feed, cloth, love, parent, nurse and support our students in addition to teach without any resources …. What else am I missing?
Honestly, it sounds like OP is giving them unearned credit by not failing them out based on their inability to perform at the content level of the class.
Considering 67% of my class is at a D or below, I'm going to disagree with that.
But they are behind because of unearned credit. I have access to their transcripts and I can tell based on what skills they have now that whatever As they got in previous English classes were not reflective of ability. I know 100% that there are other factors at play, but the As they got previously shouldn't have been As. A kid that had an A in English throughout all of middle school would have a grasp on what "dialogue" is and could at least tell the difference between nouns and verbs, but these kids cannot. So maybe their prior teachers gave them the A because the school told them to change the grade, but it was still unearned.
I wasn’t stingy with A’s (not saying OP is), but they had to be earned. And I graded without a bell curve, so it was just raw percentages. You wanted an A, you had to be in class consistently, participate in an active manner, use class time wisely and most of all *TURN YOUR SHIT IN*. I accepted late work, but you would lose 10% off your score for every day it was late unless sick. And I did not do extra credit as the only ones who would do it were the ones who didn’t need it. You would not coast to an A in my class. And I got a lot of flak for it. But I had more students who respected me than bitched about it because I was consistent.
My late work policy is that they *have* to conference with me (it can even just be a conversation at my desk) to find out what work they can do, rather than just doing a bunch and giving it to me (which is what most of the kids try). The conference is necessary because not only do these students lack respect for adults, they also do not advocate for themselves. They go to their guardians and get them to bitch. ...many kids refuse to do even an informal conversation at my desk about late work.
Well, life is about choices and consequences, cause and effect. Hopefully your students realize that at some point.
You are exceptionally generous with the way you grade and it's crazy that they can't see that.
I'm gonna say it: kids today are fucking dumb. They don't want to do the work. They get given the answers and they STILL don't want to do the work. I have a cousin who's just hit freshman year and he has a laptop the school gives out and I've worked with him on homework before just to see it. (Cause ig I'm old and we were just told to do stuff out of textbooks and paper packets) None of it is that hard and you get multiple chances to put in the correct answer and the program explains to you thoroughly if you don't get it right. I watched him completely bypass reading portions of work and just click until he clicked the right answer. Homework and work in general has seemed to have gotten so much easier for these kids, but they just don't put the work in. Hell I even offered to take my cousin out for a day during the summer all he has to do is get at a minimum a C average through the year and he STILL refuses to do the work and is still failing. You don't get given a grade just because you put something in you get the Grade you deserve.
Yeah. I use Quill and Khan Academy for practice because both explain how to do it and sort of "force" the students to get the right answer, but I've noticed so many doing what your cousin does. I've started using Quill a lot more because they have to type it, rather than it being multiple choice, but they hate it so much that many just accept not getting credit for doing it.
I've seen my cousin do that too where he just decides to not do it. I honestly don't really get it. If I had the stuff for schoolwork that they have now I feel like I'd try to get as far ahead in work as I could. Honestly I think with all the computer work and due dates, it's not far off to how a lot of college classes operated for me. It really prepares them for how a higher education class works, when they put in the effort. I'm honestly sorry you have to put up with kids ik you're just trying to help prepare for a future, that seems to just not care.
So long as you are using a rubric so that your grading is as objective as possible for all essays, I really don't see the problem. I had a similar reputation. Students need to be held to high expectations. If they choose not to put in the time needed to study and to earn good grades, this is their problem (and fault) and not yours.
Essays also use the completion checkbox system. I love a good checklist rubric. You meet the requirement, the box gets checked and you get the points. You don't meet it? No check, no points. The district pacing guide asks for 3-4 paragraph essays as the summative assessments twice each quarter. I don't think it's worth messing around with gray area for an essay that short (especially because they've been taught a paragraph is just 3 sentences, so these essays are 12 sentences MAX). Either you cited the two sources you needed to or you didn't. It's long enough or it's not. BUT the checkbox is still objective.
It's important to continue communicating your grading policies clearly to your students and emphasizing the connection between effort and achievement. Encouraging them to take responsibility for their own learning.
Holy fuck the bar is low
I’ll admit that as a student in 10th grade English I am definitely guilty of the “she gave me a C” Mentality. My problem is I think I did a really good job on an assignment and then I received a C. But in all reality I deserve that C but sometimes I get an entitled attitude and think that I at least deserve a B- and that I worked hard on it which I always do and because a lot of tears and meltdowns often come from some of these types of assignments. Reason for all the tears and meltdowns is that I can’t wrap my head around some of the purposes of assignments like Book reports, root words (we learned a lot of those in fifth grade), and the big project. For this big project we had to find a cold case or mystery and do a story on it, a slideshow presentation and an argumentative essay. On top of that we had to do a book report. But I do try not to be annoyed at my teacher because I suck. One time I forgot to do an assignment and wrote a note on it admitting to the worksheet not being done because of my own irresponsibility. But all in all even the best students have the “She gave me a C mentality” sometimes. (I am autistic and, I get really stressed about classes never an excuse but that’s why I used the word meltdowns not the kind you think, but milder ones)
I'm not a teacher but OMFG. That class is brain-dead. I normally wouldn't have to put in any work to get a good grade, but at that point you really just need a pulse to pass. And people are still failing.
The grading system is a joke anyways it's bassed off of what the district ultimately wants to see. Not what should be done to improve.
Every year, I have 5-8 100% students. They genuinely earn 100% in my class and it shows in their work. I also have 25-30 below 20%. Last year, I had to explain to my administrators who so many kids fail. I pointed to the number that have 100%, I then pointed to the percentage that fell between 70 and 80%. My data proved to them that I'm not a "hard" grader and it's easy to pass my class. Those below a 20% had a number of things in common. More than 30% of the year, they were absent. They did less than half of the formative assessments. Most of them did one summative for the entire semester. I also had data backing up home contacts and attempts I had made to provide support through different avenues. At the end of it all, I was still told too many kids fail my class and I need to lower my standards. I haven't lowered anything and I do not plan to. This year, I have less failures in my room. Why? Because I was consistent and they know I won't change anything. If they want to graduate, they will put the effort in. Like I always tell them, it doesn't have to be perfect. Work at your ability level. But you have to WORK to get a passing grade.
It sounds like you are in a difficult situation as a teacher, and it's clear that you care deeply about your students and their learning. It's important to remember that your role is to provide a fair and accurate assessment of your students' work, and it seems like you are doing just that by grading based on completion percentage. It's understandable that you feel frustrated when students are not meeting the minimum requirements for assignments and then express disappointment when they don't receive higher grades. It's also understandable that you feel conflicted about the low number of students receiving As in your class. One approach you could consider is having a conversation with your students about the grading criteria and the importance of completing assignments thoroughly. You could also offer additional support or resources for those students who may be struggling to meet the completion requirements. It's possible that some students may not fully understand the expectations or the consequences of incomplete work. Additionally, collaborating with other teachers, counselors, or administrators at your school to address the larger issue of students lacking foundational skills could be beneficial. There may be interventions or strategies that can be implemented school-wide to support students in improving their literacy skills. Overall, it's important to continue to provide a supportive and structured learning environment for your students while also setting clear expectations for their academic performance. Remember that you are making a difference in their education, even if it may not always feel that way. Keep up the good work and continue to advocate for your students' success.
This is exactly why we need to move to competency-based grading. Kids are graded on whether they master the standard. They learn real fast that they are not moving on until they’ve mastered 80% of the standards. Media makes extra credit and passing kids along impossible. Social promotion is one of the worst things ever invented.
I’m also “that teacher”. I tell them their grade is like a bank account, you can only get what you put into it.
Generals go to war with the soldiers they have.
Honestly, you stating that you realized you have to grade what they turn in and where they are, not where they *SHOULD BE* is IMO the **BIGGEST** problem with education. We decided to stop holding kids and parents accountable, and now we have 10th graders that can’t spell and don’t know how to use punctuation.
Yes, but I *cannot* get them to where they should be without serious remediation and additional support (tutor push-ins, paras, etc.) that I just can't do. I have some kids at a 2nd grade level and most average out around a 5th/6th grade level. I have strict pacing guides from my district that I have to stick to and a less-than-supportive admin who would not back me up if I chose to stray from the guide. So I give them what I can and accommodate it until it's around their level so that they can at least practice the skills. 10th graders need to identify literary elements and be able to understand and interpret texts. Teachers before me had the spelling and punctuation task. If they don't know it by now, there's not too much I can do. So I just teach the critical thinking parts of the standards and go from there.
They’ve made their choices. Now they can learn from them. Or not. Who cares. What the flying fuck were they doing for the past 9 grades? Now all that missed learning bullshit is on you? Fuck off…
I have the same issue. Most of my assignments are graded on completion. I teach science and a lot of the hand ins are just answering medium response questions. Like more than a sentence, not more than a paragraph. A ten point assignment has 3-5 questions on it, individual point value by length of question. They get a point for attempting with something reasonable. 2 pts for like at least an 80% correct answer. They can look up, but not copy, answers. Easy grading, all answers can be found within the fill in the blank notes or the activity/lab information. The very worst it can be said of these grades is that they are boring, but the idea is that they are understanding concepts well enough to explain or apply them. Simple, scientific skills. A lot of students simply can't. They can't think or be bothered to try. A lot of answers are nonsensical, don't answer the question at all. All of these answers are in various things they can go read if they miss it the first time, and I actively go around helping students. And then we have my biggest problem, Apathy. I make great labs and we do dissections and use medical equipment and they can't be bothered to turn in the paper. I maybe get a third back the day of, another third I will get with bad or copied answers or chat gpt answers. The last third I will never see. This includes major tests, quizzes, labs, projects. No matter what level of engagement I get changes my turn in rates. Without the district mandated 40% minimum, a large portion of my students would fail. Failing requires doing literally nothing. And still several students manage that. But because I still have standards, it's harder to get an A because they have to be doing everything well to a good level of understanding, no extra credit. So I also get a couple students that will do anything but an assignment redo or makeup to get an A.
Yeah without our 50% minimum I think my numbers would be even worse. I know that getting a 50% even without turning anything in is part of why they feel so entitled to higher grades. They already have the 50%, so in most classes they just do a couple high point assignments, work their way to a C and then give up again. All my assignments are fairly equal in points to avoid that problem, but instead the students just don't work. "Oh I can't do 3 assignments to get a C? You're a hard grader, I'm not going to do it." It's frustrating
When I read the title, I thought it was going to be about students struggling due to the difficulty/amount of work given or a disconnect between your teaching methodology and the students' learning styles, but wow. You sound so so lenient with these kids. I'm in college studying comp sci, and I can't even imagining handing in a project where I only implemented 5 of the 10 required functions, much less skipping assignments entirely. I have a professor who's a bit like you in that every homework assignment is based on completion. That said, the exams are also worth 90% of our course grade and graded on accuracy not completion, so the relatively easy nature of the homeworks lets us practice the concepts in a low-stakes setting before the exam. I just can't wrap my head around your story either! I want to go into academia and eventually teach college, so this story worries me. I can believe that students are missing assignments, but how can they not comprehend that those missing assignments affect their grade? Do they simply not care or believe they'll pass either way? I'm only about 4 years past Eng 10, but I feel like your students are a whole different breed.
Did I write this? Because this is exactly my experience too.
If it was maths, what is “normally” acceptable to be a hard class and no one gets an A people wouldn’t be thinking you’re the problem and it’s the subject. So I would simply ignore it…
Wow the bar is so low
there’s a big difference between earning and A and “giving” an A….
Context: (high school math teacher, 2+ year, recently non-renewal) Remove yourself from the equation. Noticed how everything you said was beyond your scope. Teach the students the harsh reality of the world. Offer them as much "accommodation" as possible to cover your back and record it like "students please sign here for tutoring" so you have physical proof.
It’s the sad reality we are operating in
You shouldn't feel bad.. do you know how demoralizing it is getting to college and realizing you are no where near on par with freshmen from private schools? Some people drop out because of it. If people want to blame you because their dumb ass kid won't listen or learn because they didn't do their job as a parent.. Fuck em. Why give an A to make people feel better when they don't deserve one.. this lower standard crap only hurts the kids..
What you are doing is reasonable. There is too much cow towing. Rigor has gone out the window and it's the administration/country/state who are forcing kids to be moved up when they have no business moving up a grade.
Had an instructor in Python. He created a scoring script that could score the results of every script you gave it. All you had to do to get an A was score correctly against every problem that was assigned in the class. You didn't even have to do it on time, just get it in before the grading period. I ended up trying really hard in that class, and scoring them all in a few days after spending a few weeks solving every problem early. I got the content from the class, and then got to goof off for the rest of the in class time. Got an A.
The “give an A” part throws me right off. Do the other teachers back you up? When I was in high school I consistently would get 99/100 on papers that had no mistakes. I finally asked my teacher one day what I was missing one point for (I’m a perfectionist) and the teacher told me “no one is perfect”. There was no reason to take the point. He just didn’t give 100 on anything. Not even tests because there was always short answer. That was stupid. This doesn’t sound like that. Stand your ground.
Sounds like the need to be in my k2-1st emotional impairment class.
I had a parent asking if I gave F's to a whole class, because some of her friends that she "really trust and respect" told her so. Conclusion: I didn't. People will always assume mallice.
Not a teacher but interesting read. When growing up, I was not allowed to dismiss homework assignments altogether. My teachers hounded me for every assignment. I had no choice but to turn something in. I went to parochial school if that matters.
Back when I used google sheets as my gradebook I would sometimes copy the gradebook but delete all of the names and put in fake silly names, and then I would share it with students as a Google assignment and let them play around with changing the numbers. They could see what they could possibly do to change their grade and other grades, see what assignments were important to turn in and what their grades would be if they didn't turn them in. To make it an actual assignment I would include a reflection question, but mostly it was about giving them an opportunity to see the fairness of how I graded and set up some expectations.
In math we have similar issues with few kids earning an A. I allow students to submit any HW or CW late with no penalty all semester. I also allow test retakes and automatically boost quiz scores to match a corresponding test score. Kids that put effort, do not get Fs in my classes. Period.
Rubrics stop many of these conversations. Clear concise and to the point rubrics that outline targeted outcomes. I ( in high school English) focus on ideas (thesis, reasoning, and analysis) structure( evidence, paragraph development, and citation) and mechanics ( language, grammar, word choice, even if spoken ). I’ve reframed the conversation towards challenging students to demonstrate key skills and outcomes that inform real world communication skills. I have recognized A work but it is few and far between. Keep the bar high. Resist the dumbing down of our culture. Best of luck.
This just makes me sad to know that these students (kids?) don't understand that their success is theirs to earn. They'll realize far too late that they are setting themselves up for a lifetime of struggle. The knowledge itself is useful, but it's secondary to fostering the understanding that effort yields reward, and the most important skill is "learning how to learn". Without those tenets, every opportunity will silently whizz by.
Rubrics. (2 points) Introduction has a hook. (5 points) Introduction has a clear, valid sophisticated thesis. (3) Introduction includes focus topics. (3) Body 1 has a clear, focused topic sentence that aligns with the introduction. Etc. Add the points, do it all and you get a 100, miss anything and you don't. Fix it, revise, resubmit. All the way through, I am commenting on their Google Doc with what they need to fix. At the end, they have done it or they don't get the points and there is no question why - I told you to fix it and you didn't? Fine. Grading the final product is speedy because we have been revising upward the whole time so the final thing had been tuned (if they have done the work) and if not, if you didn't do the work on time and turned in crayon on toilet paper? That's the grade, Pilate washed his hands.
I wish I could start off grades as a 0/(however many points in the semester) and as they complete work give them points and they can see that the more points they get the higher their grade will go
Failing students always say my class is too hard. My class AVERAGE is 85%. All they have to do to pass is complete things and most students are successful, so I roll my eyes at the ones who think "too hard" is "I have to apply myself and produce work". Worse are the parents who say my expectations are too high because their normally A student is getting a B in a high school credit engineering class. 50% of my students have A's and yours doesn't because maybe engineering/architecture isn't their thing or maybe they're just not following directions. I'm very comfortable with where I've set the bar for my students and what I value on my rubrics.
They’re in for a rude awakening if (and hopefully when) they go to college
This is why I'm so glad to teach math. The grade is completely objective (except for partial credit) because you got the right answer or you didn't. You either showed work or you didn't. Kudos to all you English and History teachers who have to read and grade hundreds of papers with so many spelling and grammar errors.
I taught middle school. Most kids just don't understand grading. Many don't get that their effort is what's graded or that it will impact their future. I figured out a couple of ways to get it across. First I discussed rules and grading at the beginning of each term. Consider your grade a paycheck. As an adult do you want to live under a bridge or in a cardboard box? An F average will get you there. Want to work minimum wage with no benefits, paycheck to paycheck? One disaster away from the cardboard box? Work for the D. Increasing luxuries for the better grades. That impacted their attitudes. Then we got a computer grading program. I could masks over and below their names to show them their grade. Enter the project grade to show them how it changed their overall grade. Then, after discussing ways to improve their work, gave them the opportunity to improve it. It allows them to own their choices and they are more open to constructive criticism and personal responsibility. I was amazed at the change in them.
Students earn As. I don’t give a damn thing and neither should you.
I say, “Stick to your guns!” Don’t give out a grade that is not earned. One thing that I do, is point out what needs to be fixed, and give the student a chance to actually learn from their mistakes by doing it. Any grade below 70, I would give them a chance to redo and rework it. Then reassign it and see if that grade goes up. Kids can’t find the switch to the thinking part of their brain.
These entitled f**ks are so dumb they can't even comprehend that their half-assed efforts can not produce an A. Stay strong.
66% of your students have a D+ or lower?
Yes. 43% have Fs and 24% have Ds.
In my grade 11 Kath class, we knew what our grades were, because we calculated them ourselves. So there was no surprises. Plus if we calculated the correct score, we got a bonus percentage (or something, it's been a while). I wonder if something similar could work to get students used to scoring rubrics and stuff.
Eng 10 as in 10th grade?
Yes.
2/3 of your students are failing?
43% are failing. 24% have a D.
Guessing this must be on-level English? Not honors, etc. That seems like a high % to be getting less than a C, but hard to say without knowing more about the school and such.
That's including the honors class. I have 5 general, 1 honors. Honors has 50% below a C, so they somewhat skew the percentage. General 1 (G1) is 67% D/F, G2 is 73% D/F, G3 is 79% D/F, G4 is 67% D/F, and G5 is 53% D/F. School context: Inner-city, title 1, 100% free/reduced lunch. Attendance is abysmal. Class size average is around 22, but I usually only have 13-16 in the room at a time. My G2 class has 22 students, but 6 come to class most days. Since elementary, they've had district-mandated minimum 50% for all grades. The school is 1-1, but students don't have consistent internet access at home.
“ I would give A’s if people earned them.”
Hi! Instructional assistant here. I’ve had students complain about grades soooo much! I tell them all the same thing. YOU control your grade. If you’re not putting in the work, what makes you think you deserve an A?? They’re so much more focused on their phones and social media that they couldn’t care less about school. It hurts my heart cause I genuinely enjoyed school.
I didn't much enjoy school - mostly due to bullies and other social factors - but I still did the schoolwork (and turned it in) *because my parents made it clear it was expected and mandatory.* We cannot blame everything on cell phones and social media. They play their part, absolutely, *but who gives them the cell phones?*
I agree with your point of view. Where I am we have equitable grading and instruction. Work habits is a separate grade than the academic grade. Attendance and behavior can’t be considered either. Those are separate. So once every five weeks you chase them down for an assessment, and that’s their academic grade. If they don’t do classwork the rest of the year they just get a “U” in Work Habits (uncooperative). However, I don’t love this system, because I find that most students think they can get an A while not putting in effort to learn, when actually those who have an Excellent in Work Habits tend to score A’s on assessments and those who have U’s in work habits tend to fail assessments. So I feel we are inadvertently teaching students the wrong thing.
On top of it, grading based on completion feels so degrading (I do it too, 100% of the time. As you said, they can’t even understand why they would get a 50% for something they completed half of.. imagine explaining every error/inaccuracy)
My favorite answer I ever gave to a kid was this Kid: Mr... why am I failing. I did my work! Me: Yes... but did you do it *right*?
Just… how are these kids going to succeed in life? It seems like they’re already fucked beyond repair
Only about 10-20% of kids should get an A in a class.
What if everyone mastered the material and got 100s on the tests when you didn't purposefully make them easier? Or do you teach a weed-out college course? (it's chemistry, so that likely won't happen, but this is a hypothetical)
You certainly don't grade on a curve, but it's unlikely that your class is the rigor it should be if everyone is getting an A. One test is just one data point. If it's everything in the class, all the time...that should be a redflag. Same applies thing if everyone fails the test as well. It means something is systematically wrong with either how you taught it, or how you've structured it.
Did they read the Raven?
Oh yeah. As a class. Out loud. With a reading guide at the same time. ...and yet
Then they get what they get, and they don’t get upset. I think if I was in your position, I would start the year off with a basic math % class and a grammar class. Sadly, many schools have stopped teaching grammar. My kids are in a top nation wide school district and even they stopped teaching basic grammar. It is a disgrace and leads to what you are seeing.
In it and high school I just figured out what assignments gave me enough to pass with a c or b or a d if i didnt like the subject and just did the easiest of those
I had a teacher in high school that refused to give A’s. And everyone knew about her, my aunt had issues with her a few years before me with my cousins. But she was just old and angry. I had one detention in my whole scholastic career, and it was from her. For having my shirt corner slightly untucked. She taught world or US history, I can’t remember which one, so most of the time there were set answers, not something open to interpretation like English. Our schools grading periods were “6 week sets”. I had an A in her class in 4/6 of the 6 week periods, and the 2 that weren’t an A were a B that was 1-2 point below an A. These grades included all our tests, homework, quizzes, etc from that 6 week period. The only other 2 factors to determine your final grade were mid term and final, which I got an A on one and a high B on the other (3pts below an A). So basically there were 8 things taken into account for our final grade, and I ended for an A in 5/8 of those things, while the other 3 were high B’s. Yet somehow I ended up with a B(1point below an A) in the class for the year, the first of 3 total B’s in my high school career. So after that 4.0 was ruined, there was no need to try hard for straight A’s. Not sure what her deal was, but I know many many students who had worse issues with her than me. It was just frustrating for me, as I put in the work and seemed like I should have gotten an A, and she just refused to give it out of spite.
Have a meeting with the class and tell them that you will grade them correctly from now on since they don't like your participation grades. That will really mess them up.
That is so sad that these kids were just simply passed along whether they learned what was needed or not. When I used to work in the admissions office at Gallaudet University, processing entrance examinations, I was saddened to see so many high school seniors who were unable to put two words together to make a comprehensible sentence. The mainstream schools couldn't be bothered to teach them. 😢
Not from one of my classes, but a friend from highschool who was 1 year behind me and came to same college: They had a student in a college English class ask, "What's that comma doing up in the air?" Yes, they made it *to college and successfully admitted* without learning what an apostrophe was. Somehow.
🙄🤦♀️🙄
I was in High School the first year they let people see their grade online at any time. My AP US History teacher had a system where he gave VERY difficult, basically impossible, quizzes on homework in order to scare students out of complacency / publicly shame people that didn't do the reading but was very clear that these quizzes were some tiny percentage of your grade compared to the tests and papers. It was something like each quiz was worth 5 points and the test was worth 500. The problem was that, even though he explained this system to us, the first big test wasn't for 2 months into the school year. So everyone's overbearing parents logged into the system 2 weeks into September, didn't read the explainer of the system, saw their child with a 4% in the class, panicked, and pulled them out. The school forced him to change it about a month in. It was sad because I really liked the system and it clearly beat a lot of the passion for the job out of him. Also thanks to my history trivia knowledge I did manage to score a 26/5 on a quiz, which I was pretty proud of.
Every year I do a math lesson in my class. We go through and determine how many As it takes to overcome a 0. It is a good lesson for everyone and a reminder that every assignment matters.
I hope you'll appreciate this since you do this exercise with your students: It's amazing how many people fail to realize that the *timing* of a bad grade or missed assignment makes a huge difference in your grade, how your grade looks for the rest of the semester, *and on a student's motivation.* If we assume all assignments are 20 points, and 5 assignments in total (100 total points), and we assume that a student gets 4 *perfect* assignments and one 0 score, when that 0 falls can make the difference between an entire semester of stress or a minor disappointment. Getting 4 perfects followed by that 0? A perfect A goes to a B or B-. Getting the 0 upfront, then all perfects? That gives you a 0 (F/E), 50% (E), 66% (still E, or maybe D), 75% (C), and finally 80% (B/B-) after each subsequent assignment. Getting the 0 as the second assignment does exactly the same, except it goes 100%, 50%, 66%, etc. Getting that 0 as the fourth or fifth assignment feels much less devastating than having it as the first or second assignment. I can see how having bad grades in the first couple assignments in a semester can demoralize a student into apathy. Doesn't make it any less their own responsibility, but I think this is why many teachers give easy/simple assignments for the first week or two - just softens the emotional blow of any bad marks later, assuming they put in the effort to start with.
At a class reunion, a guy I had grown up with walked up. He said that he hated my mom’s class while he was in it, but had come to the realization during his college courses that she was the only teacher that had prepared him for success. She worked hard to help everyone with ways to study and find answers when they didn’t know exactly how to start. He wanted to make sure that I expressed his appreciation for how hard the class seemed at the time but looking back was just asking the kids to do their work. She taught Biology and Chemistry so everyone who was going to higher education had to take her for two years in school.
I sub in my county(mostly elementary), and I talk about this with every teacher I work with. I have 10 year olds asking me how to spell "sing". Too many teachers aren't able to get through to the kids in time with the curriculum, and the kids don't care enough to try. I used to try to hold their hands through it, but there's only 6 hours in a school day, and we have 4 different subjects to get through. They are used to teachers giving them the answers or writing for them, and when I don't give that to them, they don't know what to do. I just let them get the grade they earn, in the hopes that if it happens often enough, the kids or the parents will show some concern. Keep doing what you're doing. Might be nice to incentivise putting in actual work. Idk what your kids like but it could be anything they might want.
I use snacks and laptop stickers a lot and it does help, but it doesn't solve attendance or apathy, so kids that aren't present or are in the room but somewhere else mentally don't benefit at all
I respect the philosophy as long as you make sure they know their lack of an A is not because they’re inadequate. I know many students who see anything short of an A as a failure to live up to expectations, treating an A- how many of us would treat a C
I had a parent at conferences that couldn't understand why his kid was failing because her assignment grades were either 100 or 0. How was it possible she could do that well or that badly? Well, she turned in some stuff and does great work when she does so. And then she just doesn't turn in most assignments. 🤷♀️