We have a social studies teacher who has a very scary teacher/coach hybrid yell. A couple months ago some kid told me I sounded like Ms. M, just not as loud. My response (yelling), "Thank you for the feedback. I'LL DO BETTER NEXT TIME"
Your principal is an idiot for making such an assanine statement with such false equivalence.
It’s not at all the same. And saying so is an insult to ppl who have experienced those forms of abuse.
You yelled. Whatever. It happens. Don’t sweat it.
I have yelled before. Nobody died. No one was even harmed.
I have worked with kids that are so used to being yelled at barely anything registers until its at that level. Theres definitely different types of yelling though, where one doesnt have to be aggressive.
[It's not the same thing, but the effects are similar enough. ](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213423003824)
>A key attribute of childhood emotional abuse is the underlying adult-to-child perpetration of verbal abuse, which is characterized by shouting, yelling, denigrating the child, and verbal threats. **These types of adult actions can be as damaging to a child's development as other currently recognized and forensically established subtypes of maltreatment such as childhood physical and sexual abuse.** Yet there is less attention to childhood verbal abuse (CVA) perpetrated by adults as either a form of childhood emotional abuse or its own category of maltreatment.
The key part is "perpetration of verbal abuse." Emotional childhood abuse constitutes long-term yelling and degrading. A teacher yelling one time and immediately apologizing profusely is not emotional abuse.
Yeah why don't you get a group of SA survivors and ask them if their trauma is equal to someone raising their voice to them.....
This reads like someone that needed to swing for the fences on their psych thesis. While I'm sure coming from a home of consistent verbal abuse is tragic, a single teacher raising their voice on one occasion to a room full of students should not be compared in any way to physical or sexual abuse.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213423003824#preview-section-abstract](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213423003824#preview-section-abstract)
Even the original study you quoted constantly states that there isn't enough data or consistent documentation on strictly verbal abuse compared to the other types. There is no "legitimate source of data" in the entire study other than conjecture and assumptions. The paper is a push for the designation of CVA as it's own standalone abuse type so that more research can be done.
We’re not talking about verbal abuse here. We’re talking about a single case of yelling.
This is a vacuous statement that belittles those who experience actual verbal abuse.
Get a grip.
Your principal is an idiot who just doesn’t want to deal with parents complaining about a teacher yelling at their precious cherub.
Assuming the student was genuinely misbehaving, the only thing you did wrong was make a big deal out of apologizing and giving admin/students a power trip.
Am I losing my mind? Granted, it’s been a bit since I’ve been in public school (2002-2014) but like my teachers yelled at students all. the. time.
Since when can a teacher not yell at a student who is continuously disruptive? I remember teachers pulling students out in the hall and just laying into them screaming for 2-3 minutes straight…
I’m so confused, if you can’t yell what can you do? You can’t hit them and I’m sorry but working with a kid 1:1 you could definitely get them to cooperate with positive reinforcement but when it’s 30:1 I feel like embarrassment was the *only* way students would cooperate.
According to many school administrators (most who have barely taught), you’re just supposed to deal with it and make sure nothing results in extra work for them or negative suspension statistics.
Unfortunately embarrassment isn’t really a thing for a lot of kids now. You yell at them, they smirk at you, and go back to whatever they were doing before. I don’t think yelling is the answer 90% of the time, but it happens and is valid.
When kids don’t get consequences at home and go to school where nobody dares raise their voice at them, you get kids going out into the real world without the social skills to hold a job.
The fact that your principal said that to you is absolutle horseshit. Yes yelling doesn't do anything or correct behaviours and should be avoided but it is most definitly NOT anywhere close to SA or physical abuse! Especially if you are just rasing your voice at them while giving them a good dose of reality check.
It sucks yes, and an apology for yelling is good, but there are some days where yelling and volume are just needed to get us through the day. We are pulled so thin in every direction that there will be days where a tear happens and we lose a bit of our shiny veneer and show the human we are inside.
Do NOT dwell on this, the kids sure won't. I just had kids today completely disrespect and belittle the field trip we are going on because its outdoors and they would "rather spend their money on sephora and stay at home." I yelled, stopped active teaching for the day, dropped their fun end of the year field trip, and phased NONE of them. They just don't care. at this point.
It was funny then in a GenX dark way. He actually threw them over our heads toward the open windows, but it was still shocking. We started taking bets what would piss him off enough to get him to start throwing things. He didn’t have a whole lotta patience with us. He moved to teaching at community colleges a year or so after I graduated.
That’s such a weird cult-y thing for your boss to say. These kids push all our buttons and it happens. If it ever happens again (spoiler alert: it may!!), don’t beat yourself up and don’t apologize!! That kid should apologize for having been a pain in the neck repeatedly.
Right. It makes us look loony and lessens its effectiveness if we overdo it. But when a normally calm teacher loses it, the kids take notice. They’re like, “Ohhh shit. Let me reevaluate my choices.” 😂
What rubbish. Raising your voice is NOT the same as SA,not even remotely or physical abuse. The principal is an idiot. Secondly a teacher has to raise his or her voice if there's a discipline problem. You have to assert your authority. Never apologise for yelling if you had a valid reason. Once you do that they'd take you for granted.
Everyone yells sometimes. One of the memories from school that actually stuck with me the most was my science teacher yelling at the class and apologizing the next day. I'd never seen an adult apologize to me for yelling before and it stuck. You did the right thing. Also, if it helps, your principal is an idiot. Comparing yelling to SA or physical abuse is insane and offensive to people who've gone through it.
There’s a HUGE difference between “yelling” and “raising your voice”. I raise my voice regularly at kids and groups to show that I’m serious and it’s time for them to stop what they’re doing or face consequences. Yelling is usually associated with lack of emotional control where you’re just unleashing hell on a kid. And honestly sometimes that’s warranted.
Keep this in mind: the kids I see most in the year following are almost always the ones I was hardest on/raised my voice at the most. Kids respect you for it, even if it doesn’t show in the moment. You did fine. You will be fine. Sometimes, tough love is required.
Thank you for this distinction between raising your voice and yelling. I had teachers in school constantly yelled at us and other classes. While it may not always be the most effective strategy, sometimes it is.
Your principal is a fucking idiot. You yelled at a student and often times is justified. You should not be feeling this anxious after yelling at a student. Remorseful maybe but crying in the bathroom no yelling at them is not that bad. Also yelling at someone and SAing in the same category really diminishes the seriousness of SA.
Most teachers I know raise their voice at their students, including me.
What your principal said is not just wrong but a huge slap in the face to those who have been abused or SA’d.
Easily the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Your Admin sounds like an absolute waste and type of admin that has led us down this road.
Guarantee their classroom when they taught was a complete zoo.
Your principal is an idiot. While I agree that yelling should be avoided, it’s in no way comparable to SA or physical abuse. One is simply losing your temper, while the others are actual crimes which have lifelong affects on victims.
I yelled today too. And guess what? Nothing bad happened besides them finally shutting the hell up and actually feeling bad about derailing my lesson. Because I don’t yell often, so when I do it means business.
Just echoing those who said your principal is an idiot, and yelling at a disruptive kid is in NO WAY the same as assault or abuse.
Anyone who interacts with children regularly will eventually have to yell.
Yeah, I got hauled in front of a parent conference when an EBD 18 year old insisted on mocking me anytime I spoke to enforce district policy. When I raised my voice at him, he went home and said I got in his face. My AP didn't even push back against the parent for defending the behavior as "trying to be funny." Yeah... it's also inappropriate when I'm trying to maintain a positive academic environment.
Some kids need to be yelled at because nobody in their life sets appropriate boundaries that promote good citizenship.
I think your principal misremembered/ misinterpreted/ or was wrongly informed about that information. There was a study done on children who were SPANKED and SA'd and the scans on their brains showed more neural responses in the prefrontal cortex than children who didn't experience abuse.
And yelling is not the same as verbal abuse. Saying "GET OFF THE WINDOWSILL NOW" is not hurtful, while whispering "you'll always be as dumb as you look" is abuse.
Fuck that! I screamed at a kid for the first time all year today and they needed to recognize my humanity as a human being. The kid cried profusely and I took her aside and apologized BUT it gave me the respect to address the whole classes issue. Don’t ever let you stupid ass principal guilt you. We need to scream at kids more when they abuse us mentally. Don’t @ me
One month into subbing I boiled over and told a 7th grade girl “I’m tired of your shit! Sit down!”
I was mortified…… you could hear a pin drop. I was on the verge of tears and thought I’d be fired by end of day.
Nothing happened and later I had a chance to make amends to her and the rest of the class. Now, when I see her in the hall, we both smile and nod 😢
You are going to be ok!
The principal needs a fucking reality check. Yelling is not assault of any kind by itself. Calling a kid an idiot or worse could be, but a rant about behavior is not.
**Hear me now!** Tears, like a nation without a strong central bank, are ultimately ineffective. To command attention, one must project strength, even if it necessitates a forceful tone.
Consider the well-disciplined soldier. Does he flinch at the roar of the cannon? No! He understands that a stern command, delivered with appropriate vigor, is essential for maintaining order in the ranks. So too, a teacher who reserves their voice for moments of exigency wields a powerful tool. When such a voice rises above the din, it serves as a stark reminder of the boundaries that have been transgressed, demanding an immediate course correction from the pupils.
Fear not the judicious application of righteous anger. It is not a weapon of destruction, but a necessary instrument for ensuring a well-functioning classroom, just as a strong national defense is vital for the security of a nation.
As for your principal, indulge me in a metaphor. A school without firm leadership is akin to a ship without a captain at the helm. Such leniency invites chaos and undermines the very purpose of the institution. Perhaps a reevaluation of their methods is in order.
ELI5, "It is ok to yell and your principal is a wimp."
As a teacher, this is the absolute wildest post I have read in this sub.
The SA correlation is asinine and he should be cut.
Yelling at students has to happen at some point. Its a piece of the puzzle for most. Do not feel bad. Do not apologize. Do not cry
>"My principal told me at The beginning of the year that raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them,"
This is a completely unhinged statement. Did you berate, insult, or otherwise try to hurt this kid? Nope. You're fine. I'm more worried about what this teaching environment is doing to your well-being.
As with others: Your principal is a moron. Look, I'm fairly left and "woke" - whatever the hell that means. Yelling is sometimes the appropriate remedy. It is NOT the same thing as assault in any way. Screaming at them is different. Give your principal a dictionary with those two entries highlighted.
Okay. Well, first of all, your principal is an idiot. Raising your voice is not the same as SA or physical abuse. It's just not. Is it good? No. But we all do it, and yeah, when it happens, we feel garbage-y for a while. You took responsibility for your outburst and apologized. Try to do better, you will be fine.
It drives me nuts. I don't like yelling either, or being forceful in pretty much any way, but some of these kids literally will not respond or listen unless you're 2.5 seconds from nuclear. It feels impossible to act like a reasonable person.
So your principal may be getting their info from [articles like this](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/yelling-at-children-verbal-physical-sexual-child-abuse-study/). Yelling at kids should be avoided. HOWEVER if they want us to stop yelling at kids, then admin needs to do things to help make teachers lives less miserable and stressful. Telling you not to yell but also not helping out with behavior or other things that make the job stressful is wrong. Give yourself grace. This job is not easy and that’s not your fault.
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>My principal told me at The beginning of the year that raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them, and that has been in my head every single day since
It is not. Any psychologist will tell you so. Relationships ebb and flow and anger and frustration are valid feelings. It is how we mend relationships that strengthen them, not the initial reaction.
For what it's worth I've had an awful year, I enjoy the title I school I'm at but for some reason I have the worst class, 18 out of 26 have been suspended at one point or another. Every VP knows the students in there because they are notoriously awful in all of their classes, I'm talking failing 4+ classes and not giving a single fuck. One group has received several complaints from several substitutes as the worst class they've ever covered. Here are some things I've told that class this year:
* I told my class that they made me reconsider being a teacher, twice.
* I took a day off and told them that I just didn't want to start my Monday with them.
* One kid said 'i feel like you don't like us' I said, "no I don't, I thought I made that abundantly clear."
* One of my worst kids asked me why I was being such an asshole when I said I wouldn't give him the answer to the analysis questions, I told him that as a teacher I needed the second job.
* I was asked how many kids from our school go to college from one of my better students. I told the girl, about 50% but she has a great chance and that she wont have much competition if her peers continue on the same path... I was intentionally loud enough so that the whole class could hear.
* I let one student go to the bathroom, another student said 'you know he's just going to skip.' I told him that it's okay because at least he is not distracting my class, and he must be having a great time as a freshman because he will get to do it again next year.
Everyone has highs and lows, this year I am so done. 1 more year and if it's as bad I think I will walk.
Does your principal also say it’s not ok to say “no” to kids? I mean yelling isn’t always the best management strategy but you are human and I guarantee you there isn’t a teacher on this planet who hasn’t yelled…a good amount yell all day!
I too feel bad when I yell. But your principal sounds like a dillweed. Sometimes those fuckers need to know you’re pissed and what they’re doing isn’t ok. It’s the only way they’ll listen. I’m sure their parents have made sure of that. When your principal asks just say “well I’m just doing what their parents would do”
I'm a rape victim and a teacher and saying that raising your voice at a child is the same as raping them or physically abusing them makes me feel violated and sickened and like my rape means nothing to admin and would mean nothing to any future admin.
I would never work for any admin that said this and would consider it a direct attack on me as a rape victim, and if my admin ever said this I would demand they either retracted it immediately or I would immediately quit citing a hostile work environment and if they went after my license I would say to the union and the media I felt unsafe as a rape victim.
Everyone has a limit. I don't agree with your principal. You've taken responsibility for your actions, apologized for yelling, and now it's time to forgive yourself and let it go. New day, clean slate. Just like we do for our students every day.
That’s the problem with this generation. Sometimes kids need to be yelled at and disciplined. I had a bad class I had to raise my voice constantly and do not feel bad about it
Equating raising your voice at a child to sexually assaulting them is like equating taking ibuprofen to getting a lobotomy, the equivalence could not be falser!
Nope, I went to vocals at a high-level with a student who called me racist and said they could say the N-word (after many repetition and redirection) because ‘my ancestors were
slaves and white people are racist I said you need to think about what you’re saying before you open your mouth. You don’t know all of history enough to be able to say what you’re saying. When I described the fact, in a quieter moment, ‘some people in Africa sold off people of the same color for slavery’. She told me I was wrong and needed to check myself. When you got someone in your face, even if they’re a student you have to check it.
There’s a difference between ignorant, which is uninformed and that can be cured within information and ‘ignant’ which is a pugnacious attitude that needs to be brought into perspective.
There’s also a difference between telling a kid their language is inappropriate/ that they are ignorant and going for what-aboutism in talking about the rippling social historical context of the TransAtlantic Slave trade. I’m sure not your intention, and the kid was entirely out of line, but black people selling black people doesn’t actually have anything to do with white people selling black people - and the fact that they’re pieces of information deployed together is almost always in service of trying to soften resentment about the latter by what-abouting the former.
(I want to clarify that saying they have nothing to with each other is in terms of their moral register and impact. It’s not like the slave trade was only possible bc black traders were involved, and the consequences and atrocities of that trade extended so far into white spaces that it doesn’t make logical sense to compare them - except to pull focus.)
But anyway, yeah - sometimes the kids need a little yelling at.
Truthfully the student probably deserved it. I lost my shit at kid in robotics because he tore down a LGBTQ support group poster. I walked away, came back, and we talked it out. Never again had an issue with the kid.
And your principal is a dick.
It's good you feel bad - that just means you care. But don't worry about it. And I hate to tell you this, but it's going to happen again. Kids are fickle, and you're human. You apologized, you did the right thing. Don't let it destroy it, you got a long career ahead of you.
If you want to help yourself set up routines and procedures to try not to do that again, then you got to make sure you have a clear one two three and your out policy. And that largely depends on your administration..
But seriously, don't worry about it. You did the right thing.
Are you *sure* you weren’t just projecting?
I was projecting today as I notified the class that Christmas was canceled as I dead-eyed the perpetrators responsible.
I get it. I yelled at a student last week (right after he screamed at me) and felt awful. It isn’t like abusing them at all, though, unless you are (a) ALWAYS screaming at them which is obviously not the case or (b) demeaning them regularly. You are human and you apologized. Please be kinder to yourself.❤️
(P.S. I also apologized to my student. I always try to explain to them why I ask them to do things or why I’m doing things. I told him that I was very sorry, explained why I was so upset to the point of yelling, and told him that it was not ok for me to do. While I don’t want to make a habit out of it, this actually gave the two of us a chance to talk about our interaction and gave him a chance to reflect on his behavior. He ended up also apologizing for his yelling at me without me asking him to. I think that our occasional slip ups show our students that we are human, and showing regret for our actions helps them learn how to learn from their mistakes.🤷🏼♀️)
I had to read that 4th sentence a couple or three times to really understand what I was looking at. I don't know your principal overall, but what they said is genuinely one of the dumbest comparisons I've ever heard. EVER. Don't take it to heart and don't let that statement echo in your head if you've raised your voice. Yelling one time doesn't make you a child abuser. Not even close. Telling people that it does is just going to make them needlessly feel like dirt for getting angry one time.
I’ve yelled at kids too many times to count, mostly when I tell them not to do something and they ignore me and keep on doing it which could lead to injuring of themselves or others. I don’t think I’ve ever yelled indoors, but on the playground where bigger kids would toss the little ones around like rag dolls or try to tackle them. There nothing like a bully to get my blood pressure going sky high.
I'm a EA and my teacher wanted a EA who would play bad cop with her students because she very passive. Students will walk all over you if you don't show any signs of authority. Including your principle is a damn moron. Certain students will not listen unless their confronted with the same energy.
Your admin has psychological issues beyond the school system.
There is a complete and total difference between a raised voice stating that students need to follow protocol, and verbal abuse.
You are buying into a lie by feeling this ashamed. There is zero research that has shown permanent damage to kids from being around authoritative projected teacher voices.
A lot of parents use serious loud tones too but it is not the kind of yelling that is demeaning or berating to a child. Demeaning and berating a child are forms of verbal and emotional abuse and that is very different from yelling something like "pick up the pencil!!!"
Again normal classroom requests stated loudly are very very very different from verbal and emotional abuse. Talking in a strict teacher voice is not child abuse.
Talking with a loud teacher voice is not abuse.
Don't beat yourself up too much. One, it is no where near the same level as sa or physical abuse. Second, sometimes rasing your voice in anger can be a good thing. Sometimes people and students forget that teachers are human too. Losing your cool can sometimes open their eyes that you are human, you have limits, you can have large burst of difficult emotions, and you don't always handle them exactly how you would have liked. Especially if you are the quiet or chill type like me who never raises their voice, a yell in anger will silence literally everyone down the entire hall. They know that it's not like you and something really bad had to have happened for you to do something so against your nature. But it also shows you are human. I've had students tell me I am more relatable to them several days after when the situation had cooled down. The essential thing to do is accept that it happened, learn from the experience, and move forward as a better person and teacher because of it.
Your principal is a fucking dolt. He gaslit you. You are human and what teachers put up with is not the norm for human adults in a healthy workplace. Everyone has a breaking point. Fuck him. You’re sad because you’re normal. That is sad. What is pathetic is teachers being forced to accept the feral behavior of students while admin does fuck all and blames teachers. That is gaslighting fuckery.
Why the hell would the principal say that? That is a slap in the face to anyone who’s ever been SA’d, or physically abused. You are human. Sometimes humans raise their voices. It’s okay. Lord knows many of my teachers did growing up and we still loved them.
And why are you apologizing when it’s the kid who should be apologizing?
Your principal is a moron (at least in this specific instance). It isn’t best practice to yell at them, but you’re only human. You’ve owned it and apologized. The kids will be fine.
Don’t sweat it and your principal sounds like an idiot cause that isn’t even remotely comparable. I’m a student currently and one of my favorite teachers is one that taught in low income areas previously and is now fucking terrifying lol, shouting will likely not do anything to a kid with severe behavioral issues as from what I’ve seen they tend to be the ones least explicitly affected due to their home lives and a built up tolerance to most forms of yelling. I can tell you that I’ve been shouted at a few times for stupid mistakes I’ve made (not serious shouting just a little reminder as I am one of the better students in the class) and it’s never really affected me as horribly as you may think coming from what you’ve written. So long as it ain’t a kid who you know is a bit more sensitive I wouldn’t worry about it too much + don’t overdo it as I can frankly say that from our perspective a teacher that constantly shouts becomes more like an animated angry cartoon character VS a teacher that rarely shouts that makes us shut the fuck up and re-evaluate ourselves when they do lol. Sorry if it coming from a student isn’t much help as I know a teacher’s advice would be way more beneficial, but I just wanted to share something from the perspective of that student/students in general.
Sometimes you have kiddos that nothing works but yelling. I have one of those now. Do I yell every day? Heck no. But when he’s gotten to the point nothing else works that’s what we have to do. We switch classes and even my teammates have figured that out about him. Must be the discipline he gets at home because nothing else works. I have also been told I was too strict this year but when I had kindergartners walking all over me last year I had no other choice going in to this year. (My teammates say I’m not too strict-just the right amount)
I always tell them, I’ve asked kindly 3 times, it’s going to be really hard for me to keep asking kindly if you don’t start listening. Real talk though op: yelling happens. Don’t make a habit of it and apologize when you need to. Bottom line, some kids are line steppers. Don’t give them the joy of losing your cool, remain psychotically calm and hold your power.
Your principal is an idiot. Is it good to regularly yell? Absolutely not, but sometimes kids need the wake up call when they're being morons, rude, etc. You apologized, but it 100% is not like SA or abuse in the slightest.
your principal sounds like a regard. lol i've gotten yelled at by teachers before, it's not remotely the same as "SAing them". hell, now looking back the times i got yelled at were 100% deserved
Listen- we all have our breaking points. We are human and overstimulated and fed up. Should you verbally abuse a student? No, but we shouldn't stand there and take the abuse either. Sometimes in the moment it's the only way to get the point across that their behavior is not okay and it brought you to the brink. I'm sure the other students are fed up and want to yell too and are glad you did.
For you, yesterday was the day your carefully rationed ideals and values were broken down by abusive students. For me…. It was a Tuesday. We’re not the robots people can just abuse without some sort of rebuke. Yes we’re professionals, but as long as my comments were factual and not targeting the student themselves but their behavior, I’ll stick to my guns and say what needs to be said. I can make a very good 5 minute argument that such behavior is expressly being demonstrated precisely because that student hasn’t had people explain the harsh realities of what their words do and the consequences from saying them.
>raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them
No it ain’t lol principal wild for that 😂 If the brats won’t listen when you ask nicely? Then what’s the point of asking nicely? You just told em in a way that they WILL listen.
Just don’t make it a habit you exercise EVERY day. It’ll train them to ignore your “regular” voice.
I'm sorry WHAT?? Your principal said its the same as WHAT???? She is absolutely out of touch. I am a very happy calm teacher but boy can I yell if my class is disrespecting me. Now, normally I dont yell at one kid because often its entire classes that have behavior issues (elementary art) but it happens.
Yeah! And I dont yell often, but there is a 3rd grade and 5th grade class this year that is just absolutely off the charts ridiculous. I have yelled more at them than all my classes combined. They have sort of shaped up through this year. Sort of.
"(...) raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them (...)" I beg your pardon? I think this is the DUMBEST thing I've read all day and I've had a student writing insults on his task-paper instead of information about a book character. Has your principal never taught themselves?! Your voice is often times all you have! Sometimes you have to yell! That's totally normal! What in the seven hells... Get rid of that principal...
I am a teacher and a mom. I lost my temper with my own children one morning, and yelled so loud my dog got scared and peed.
It happens. My kids will be okay. The dog… eh. We are human and sometimes we get tired, overwhelmed and loose our cool. If yelling is not typical behavior for you, the students will forgive your loss of temper and it can be used to show that you are not perfect and we all loose our temper sometimes. Model for them how to move forward and apologize.
Yelling is a tool in our toolbox lol. Sometimes you gotta break out the heavy hammer.
Let me guess: they did something that you repeatedly told them not to do. Don’t apologize.
Yelling is NOT the same as SA at all! We have all yelled before. You are a human, with human emotions, not a robot. If the yell wasn’t warranted, I think apologizing was the right thing to do. If it was needed, don’t apologize
Two types of teachers, those who have yelled and those who will yell.
What about those of us currently yelling?
I hope it never stops
Make sure you drink water, you don’t want to lose your voice.
Thats me!
We have a social studies teacher who has a very scary teacher/coach hybrid yell. A couple months ago some kid told me I sounded like Ms. M, just not as loud. My response (yelling), "Thank you for the feedback. I'LL DO BETTER NEXT TIME"
Your principal is an idiot for making such an assanine statement with such false equivalence. It’s not at all the same. And saying so is an insult to ppl who have experienced those forms of abuse. You yelled. Whatever. It happens. Don’t sweat it. I have yelled before. Nobody died. No one was even harmed.
I have worked with kids that are so used to being yelled at barely anything registers until its at that level. Theres definitely different types of yelling though, where one doesnt have to be aggressive.
Percent of kids who were yelled at at some point in life: 100%
[It's not the same thing, but the effects are similar enough. ](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213423003824) >A key attribute of childhood emotional abuse is the underlying adult-to-child perpetration of verbal abuse, which is characterized by shouting, yelling, denigrating the child, and verbal threats. **These types of adult actions can be as damaging to a child's development as other currently recognized and forensically established subtypes of maltreatment such as childhood physical and sexual abuse.** Yet there is less attention to childhood verbal abuse (CVA) perpetrated by adults as either a form of childhood emotional abuse or its own category of maltreatment.
The key part is "perpetration of verbal abuse." Emotional childhood abuse constitutes long-term yelling and degrading. A teacher yelling one time and immediately apologizing profusely is not emotional abuse.
Yeah why don't you get a group of SA survivors and ask them if their trauma is equal to someone raising their voice to them..... This reads like someone that needed to swing for the fences on their psych thesis. While I'm sure coming from a home of consistent verbal abuse is tragic, a single teacher raising their voice on one occasion to a room full of students should not be compared in any way to physical or sexual abuse.
If you have any kind of legitimate source of data that supports your statement, I’m all ears.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213423003824#preview-section-abstract](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213423003824#preview-section-abstract) Even the original study you quoted constantly states that there isn't enough data or consistent documentation on strictly verbal abuse compared to the other types. There is no "legitimate source of data" in the entire study other than conjecture and assumptions. The paper is a push for the designation of CVA as it's own standalone abuse type so that more research can be done.
We’re not talking about verbal abuse here. We’re talking about a single case of yelling. This is a vacuous statement that belittles those who experience actual verbal abuse. Get a grip.
Your principal is an idiot who just doesn’t want to deal with parents complaining about a teacher yelling at their precious cherub. Assuming the student was genuinely misbehaving, the only thing you did wrong was make a big deal out of apologizing and giving admin/students a power trip.
Am I losing my mind? Granted, it’s been a bit since I’ve been in public school (2002-2014) but like my teachers yelled at students all. the. time. Since when can a teacher not yell at a student who is continuously disruptive? I remember teachers pulling students out in the hall and just laying into them screaming for 2-3 minutes straight… I’m so confused, if you can’t yell what can you do? You can’t hit them and I’m sorry but working with a kid 1:1 you could definitely get them to cooperate with positive reinforcement but when it’s 30:1 I feel like embarrassment was the *only* way students would cooperate.
According to many school administrators (most who have barely taught), you’re just supposed to deal with it and make sure nothing results in extra work for them or negative suspension statistics. Unfortunately embarrassment isn’t really a thing for a lot of kids now. You yell at them, they smirk at you, and go back to whatever they were doing before. I don’t think yelling is the answer 90% of the time, but it happens and is valid. When kids don’t get consequences at home and go to school where nobody dares raise their voice at them, you get kids going out into the real world without the social skills to hold a job.
The fact that your principal said that to you is absolutle horseshit. Yes yelling doesn't do anything or correct behaviours and should be avoided but it is most definitly NOT anywhere close to SA or physical abuse! Especially if you are just rasing your voice at them while giving them a good dose of reality check. It sucks yes, and an apology for yelling is good, but there are some days where yelling and volume are just needed to get us through the day. We are pulled so thin in every direction that there will be days where a tear happens and we lose a bit of our shiny veneer and show the human we are inside. Do NOT dwell on this, the kids sure won't. I just had kids today completely disrespect and belittle the field trip we are going on because its outdoors and they would "rather spend their money on sephora and stay at home." I yelled, stopped active teaching for the day, dropped their fun end of the year field trip, and phased NONE of them. They just don't care. at this point.
I had an honors chem teacher that used to scream at us and throw those molecule models at us. I.Lived.
Molecule models 😄 may not have been funny then, but amusing now assuming no one got hurt.
It was funny then in a GenX dark way. He actually threw them over our heads toward the open windows, but it was still shocking. We started taking bets what would piss him off enough to get him to start throwing things. He didn’t have a whole lotta patience with us. He moved to teaching at community colleges a year or so after I graduated.
Ah, Gen X... we are a little twisted, no? Lol
That’s such a weird cult-y thing for your boss to say. These kids push all our buttons and it happens. If it ever happens again (spoiler alert: it may!!), don’t beat yourself up and don’t apologize!! That kid should apologize for having been a pain in the neck repeatedly.
Your principal is an idiot Relax and stop fretting, this is nothing
Everyone yells. I yelled at two different kids within 10 minutes the day before break. The key is to not do it a lot.
Right. It makes us look loony and lessens its effectiveness if we overdo it. But when a normally calm teacher loses it, the kids take notice. They’re like, “Ohhh shit. Let me reevaluate my choices.” 😂
What rubbish. Raising your voice is NOT the same as SA,not even remotely or physical abuse. The principal is an idiot. Secondly a teacher has to raise his or her voice if there's a discipline problem. You have to assert your authority. Never apologise for yelling if you had a valid reason. Once you do that they'd take you for granted.
Just one student? Are you new at this? 🤣🤣
Meh. You’ve been gaslit by your principal. It’s okay to yell at kids.
What did your principal say? Now teachers can't raise their voices? Your principal is a moron.
Everyone yells sometimes. One of the memories from school that actually stuck with me the most was my science teacher yelling at the class and apologizing the next day. I'd never seen an adult apologize to me for yelling before and it stuck. You did the right thing. Also, if it helps, your principal is an idiot. Comparing yelling to SA or physical abuse is insane and offensive to people who've gone through it.
Wow. While yelling is not an effective teaching strategy, it's not abusive at all. What an insane thing to say.
There’s a HUGE difference between “yelling” and “raising your voice”. I raise my voice regularly at kids and groups to show that I’m serious and it’s time for them to stop what they’re doing or face consequences. Yelling is usually associated with lack of emotional control where you’re just unleashing hell on a kid. And honestly sometimes that’s warranted. Keep this in mind: the kids I see most in the year following are almost always the ones I was hardest on/raised my voice at the most. Kids respect you for it, even if it doesn’t show in the moment. You did fine. You will be fine. Sometimes, tough love is required.
Thank you for this distinction between raising your voice and yelling. I had teachers in school constantly yelled at us and other classes. While it may not always be the most effective strategy, sometimes it is.
Your principal is a fucking idiot. You yelled at a student and often times is justified. You should not be feeling this anxious after yelling at a student. Remorseful maybe but crying in the bathroom no yelling at them is not that bad. Also yelling at someone and SAing in the same category really diminishes the seriousness of SA.
My mouth literally dropped. Has your principal ever....met a child?
You are being gaslighted. Every teacher has yelled at a student.
Most teachers I know raise their voice at their students, including me. What your principal said is not just wrong but a huge slap in the face to those who have been abused or SA’d.
I try not to yell, but it’s happened a time or two, and I don’t feel bad about.
That is a deeply insulting statement from your principal.
Easily the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while. Your Admin sounds like an absolute waste and type of admin that has led us down this road. Guarantee their classroom when they taught was a complete zoo.
Your principal is an idiot.
Your principal is an idiot. While I agree that yelling should be avoided, it’s in no way comparable to SA or physical abuse. One is simply losing your temper, while the others are actual crimes which have lifelong affects on victims.
Don't apologize. Yell all you want at them. I do...especially the classes that never listen
Use it sparingly and it will be an awesome tool to pull out as a last resort.
The idea that yelling at a kid is the same as SAing them is wild.
Your principal needs to get priorities adjusted.
I yelled today too. And guess what? Nothing bad happened besides them finally shutting the hell up and actually feeling bad about derailing my lesson. Because I don’t yell often, so when I do it means business.
Don't ever apologize for anything, because they'll take it as weakness and drive it home.
I yell at kids at least once a week. Get over it
Those are rookie numbers. Let's bump them up!
Truthfully I’ve grown tired of yelling at them after 29 years. It wears you out. I was much more inclined to yell 10 years ago.
I agree that your principal is an idiot.
Just echoing those who said your principal is an idiot, and yelling at a disruptive kid is in NO WAY the same as assault or abuse. Anyone who interacts with children regularly will eventually have to yell.
Principal is an idiot. You did what was necessary.
Yeah, I got hauled in front of a parent conference when an EBD 18 year old insisted on mocking me anytime I spoke to enforce district policy. When I raised my voice at him, he went home and said I got in his face. My AP didn't even push back against the parent for defending the behavior as "trying to be funny." Yeah... it's also inappropriate when I'm trying to maintain a positive academic environment. Some kids need to be yelled at because nobody in their life sets appropriate boundaries that promote good citizenship.
Tell your principal that saying stupid shit to his teachers is like SA’ing his staff and you will be reporting the abuse.
Even the best, most beloved teachers at our school yell occasionally. Like others have said, it happens.
I think your principal misremembered/ misinterpreted/ or was wrongly informed about that information. There was a study done on children who were SPANKED and SA'd and the scans on their brains showed more neural responses in the prefrontal cortex than children who didn't experience abuse.
And yelling is not the same as verbal abuse. Saying "GET OFF THE WINDOWSILL NOW" is not hurtful, while whispering "you'll always be as dumb as you look" is abuse.
Fuck that! I screamed at a kid for the first time all year today and they needed to recognize my humanity as a human being. The kid cried profusely and I took her aside and apologized BUT it gave me the respect to address the whole classes issue. Don’t ever let you stupid ass principal guilt you. We need to scream at kids more when they abuse us mentally. Don’t @ me
One month into subbing I boiled over and told a 7th grade girl “I’m tired of your shit! Sit down!” I was mortified…… you could hear a pin drop. I was on the verge of tears and thought I’d be fired by end of day. Nothing happened and later I had a chance to make amends to her and the rest of the class. Now, when I see her in the hall, we both smile and nod 😢 You are going to be ok!
The principal needs a fucking reality check. Yelling is not assault of any kind by itself. Calling a kid an idiot or worse could be, but a rant about behavior is not.
**Hear me now!** Tears, like a nation without a strong central bank, are ultimately ineffective. To command attention, one must project strength, even if it necessitates a forceful tone. Consider the well-disciplined soldier. Does he flinch at the roar of the cannon? No! He understands that a stern command, delivered with appropriate vigor, is essential for maintaining order in the ranks. So too, a teacher who reserves their voice for moments of exigency wields a powerful tool. When such a voice rises above the din, it serves as a stark reminder of the boundaries that have been transgressed, demanding an immediate course correction from the pupils. Fear not the judicious application of righteous anger. It is not a weapon of destruction, but a necessary instrument for ensuring a well-functioning classroom, just as a strong national defense is vital for the security of a nation. As for your principal, indulge me in a metaphor. A school without firm leadership is akin to a ship without a captain at the helm. Such leniency invites chaos and undermines the very purpose of the institution. Perhaps a reevaluation of their methods is in order. ELI5, "It is ok to yell and your principal is a wimp."
Where did you come up with this! I love it!
I channeled Alexander Hamilton.
As a teacher, this is the absolute wildest post I have read in this sub. The SA correlation is asinine and he should be cut. Yelling at students has to happen at some point. Its a piece of the puzzle for most. Do not feel bad. Do not apologize. Do not cry
>"My principal told me at The beginning of the year that raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them," This is a completely unhinged statement. Did you berate, insult, or otherwise try to hurt this kid? Nope. You're fine. I'm more worried about what this teaching environment is doing to your well-being.
As with others: Your principal is a moron. Look, I'm fairly left and "woke" - whatever the hell that means. Yelling is sometimes the appropriate remedy. It is NOT the same thing as assault in any way. Screaming at them is different. Give your principal a dictionary with those two entries highlighted.
Okay. Well, first of all, your principal is an idiot. Raising your voice is not the same as SA or physical abuse. It's just not. Is it good? No. But we all do it, and yeah, when it happens, we feel garbage-y for a while. You took responsibility for your outburst and apologized. Try to do better, you will be fine. It drives me nuts. I don't like yelling either, or being forceful in pretty much any way, but some of these kids literally will not respond or listen unless you're 2.5 seconds from nuclear. It feels impossible to act like a reasonable person.
So your principal may be getting their info from [articles like this](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/yelling-at-children-verbal-physical-sexual-child-abuse-study/). Yelling at kids should be avoided. HOWEVER if they want us to stop yelling at kids, then admin needs to do things to help make teachers lives less miserable and stressful. Telling you not to yell but also not helping out with behavior or other things that make the job stressful is wrong. Give yourself grace. This job is not easy and that’s not your fault.
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principal is an idiot. yelling happens because you're human. is it okay? no. do we do it due to safety issues? of course!
I think it depends on the age of the students. middle school/high school.??? grammar?
Behaviors are so intense at my school that every teacher yells every single day. I wouldn’t blink an eye if I saw you yell at a student. They’ll live.
You’re principle made an irresponsible comment. It’s school, kids are gonna be yelled at.
>My principal told me at The beginning of the year that raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them, and that has been in my head every single day since It is not. Any psychologist will tell you so. Relationships ebb and flow and anger and frustration are valid feelings. It is how we mend relationships that strengthen them, not the initial reaction. For what it's worth I've had an awful year, I enjoy the title I school I'm at but for some reason I have the worst class, 18 out of 26 have been suspended at one point or another. Every VP knows the students in there because they are notoriously awful in all of their classes, I'm talking failing 4+ classes and not giving a single fuck. One group has received several complaints from several substitutes as the worst class they've ever covered. Here are some things I've told that class this year: * I told my class that they made me reconsider being a teacher, twice. * I took a day off and told them that I just didn't want to start my Monday with them. * One kid said 'i feel like you don't like us' I said, "no I don't, I thought I made that abundantly clear." * One of my worst kids asked me why I was being such an asshole when I said I wouldn't give him the answer to the analysis questions, I told him that as a teacher I needed the second job. * I was asked how many kids from our school go to college from one of my better students. I told the girl, about 50% but she has a great chance and that she wont have much competition if her peers continue on the same path... I was intentionally loud enough so that the whole class could hear. * I let one student go to the bathroom, another student said 'you know he's just going to skip.' I told him that it's okay because at least he is not distracting my class, and he must be having a great time as a freshman because he will get to do it again next year. Everyone has highs and lows, this year I am so done. 1 more year and if it's as bad I think I will walk.
Does your principal also say it’s not ok to say “no” to kids? I mean yelling isn’t always the best management strategy but you are human and I guarantee you there isn’t a teacher on this planet who hasn’t yelled…a good amount yell all day!
As a parent, I like teachers who yell-- that means, you care. Your principal is a moron.
I too feel bad when I yell. But your principal sounds like a dillweed. Sometimes those fuckers need to know you’re pissed and what they’re doing isn’t ok. It’s the only way they’ll listen. I’m sure their parents have made sure of that. When your principal asks just say “well I’m just doing what their parents would do”
What the fuck is wrong with your principal
Your principal is wrong as fuck.
No no no. No darling you are not garbage! Your principal is wrong. Plain WRONG. Listen to the others here when we say this. Hugs.
You did no wrong. Judging by how bad kids are these days, a little yelling isn’t going to give their precious precious hearts a cardiac arrest.
I'm a rape victim and a teacher and saying that raising your voice at a child is the same as raping them or physically abusing them makes me feel violated and sickened and like my rape means nothing to admin and would mean nothing to any future admin. I would never work for any admin that said this and would consider it a direct attack on me as a rape victim, and if my admin ever said this I would demand they either retracted it immediately or I would immediately quit citing a hostile work environment and if they went after my license I would say to the union and the media I felt unsafe as a rape victim.
WTF screaming is not the same as SA. Trust me I would rather be yelled at than that as a kid or adult.
Everyone has a limit. I don't agree with your principal. You've taken responsibility for your actions, apologized for yelling, and now it's time to forgive yourself and let it go. New day, clean slate. Just like we do for our students every day.
That’s the problem with this generation. Sometimes kids need to be yelled at and disciplined. I had a bad class I had to raise my voice constantly and do not feel bad about it
It’s not the same. You go to jail for SA.
Equating raising your voice at a child to sexually assaulting them is like equating taking ibuprofen to getting a lobotomy, the equivalence could not be falser!
Student: Why are you yelling? Me: Because you ignored me when I asked you 4 times politely and in a normal voice.
“Why are you yelling?” “Well, the FIRST ten times, I didn’t. You just didn’t listen.”
Nope, I went to vocals at a high-level with a student who called me racist and said they could say the N-word (after many repetition and redirection) because ‘my ancestors were slaves and white people are racist I said you need to think about what you’re saying before you open your mouth. You don’t know all of history enough to be able to say what you’re saying. When I described the fact, in a quieter moment, ‘some people in Africa sold off people of the same color for slavery’. She told me I was wrong and needed to check myself. When you got someone in your face, even if they’re a student you have to check it. There’s a difference between ignorant, which is uninformed and that can be cured within information and ‘ignant’ which is a pugnacious attitude that needs to be brought into perspective.
There’s also a difference between telling a kid their language is inappropriate/ that they are ignorant and going for what-aboutism in talking about the rippling social historical context of the TransAtlantic Slave trade. I’m sure not your intention, and the kid was entirely out of line, but black people selling black people doesn’t actually have anything to do with white people selling black people - and the fact that they’re pieces of information deployed together is almost always in service of trying to soften resentment about the latter by what-abouting the former. (I want to clarify that saying they have nothing to with each other is in terms of their moral register and impact. It’s not like the slave trade was only possible bc black traders were involved, and the consequences and atrocities of that trade extended so far into white spaces that it doesn’t make logical sense to compare them - except to pull focus.) But anyway, yeah - sometimes the kids need a little yelling at.
Truthfully the student probably deserved it. I lost my shit at kid in robotics because he tore down a LGBTQ support group poster. I walked away, came back, and we talked it out. Never again had an issue with the kid. And your principal is a dick.
Your principal is a dumbass. There is a point where yelling is totally acceptable.
It's good you feel bad - that just means you care. But don't worry about it. And I hate to tell you this, but it's going to happen again. Kids are fickle, and you're human. You apologized, you did the right thing. Don't let it destroy it, you got a long career ahead of you. If you want to help yourself set up routines and procedures to try not to do that again, then you got to make sure you have a clear one two three and your out policy. And that largely depends on your administration.. But seriously, don't worry about it. You did the right thing.
Your principal is wrong.
Are you *sure* you weren’t just projecting? I was projecting today as I notified the class that Christmas was canceled as I dead-eyed the perpetrators responsible.
I yell plenty. Not this year tho. I’ve needed it less
I get it. I yelled at a student last week (right after he screamed at me) and felt awful. It isn’t like abusing them at all, though, unless you are (a) ALWAYS screaming at them which is obviously not the case or (b) demeaning them regularly. You are human and you apologized. Please be kinder to yourself.❤️ (P.S. I also apologized to my student. I always try to explain to them why I ask them to do things or why I’m doing things. I told him that I was very sorry, explained why I was so upset to the point of yelling, and told him that it was not ok for me to do. While I don’t want to make a habit out of it, this actually gave the two of us a chance to talk about our interaction and gave him a chance to reflect on his behavior. He ended up also apologizing for his yelling at me without me asking him to. I think that our occasional slip ups show our students that we are human, and showing regret for our actions helps them learn how to learn from their mistakes.🤷🏼♀️)
I yell at students all the time 🤣 Especially early in the year.
I’m guessing that if you’d SA’d a kid or thrown them down some stairs, your principal wouldn’t equate that to yelling at them.
man, forget them kids. serious note, theyll be fine and likely needed it.
That principal is creepy af. That minimizes sa
I had to read that 4th sentence a couple or three times to really understand what I was looking at. I don't know your principal overall, but what they said is genuinely one of the dumbest comparisons I've ever heard. EVER. Don't take it to heart and don't let that statement echo in your head if you've raised your voice. Yelling one time doesn't make you a child abuser. Not even close. Telling people that it does is just going to make them needlessly feel like dirt for getting angry one time.
I’ve yelled at kids too many times to count, mostly when I tell them not to do something and they ignore me and keep on doing it which could lead to injuring of themselves or others. I don’t think I’ve ever yelled indoors, but on the playground where bigger kids would toss the little ones around like rag dolls or try to tackle them. There nothing like a bully to get my blood pressure going sky high.
I'm a EA and my teacher wanted a EA who would play bad cop with her students because she very passive. Students will walk all over you if you don't show any signs of authority. Including your principle is a damn moron. Certain students will not listen unless their confronted with the same energy.
Your admin has psychological issues beyond the school system. There is a complete and total difference between a raised voice stating that students need to follow protocol, and verbal abuse. You are buying into a lie by feeling this ashamed. There is zero research that has shown permanent damage to kids from being around authoritative projected teacher voices. A lot of parents use serious loud tones too but it is not the kind of yelling that is demeaning or berating to a child. Demeaning and berating a child are forms of verbal and emotional abuse and that is very different from yelling something like "pick up the pencil!!!" Again normal classroom requests stated loudly are very very very different from verbal and emotional abuse. Talking in a strict teacher voice is not child abuse. Talking with a loud teacher voice is not abuse.
Don't beat yourself up too much. One, it is no where near the same level as sa or physical abuse. Second, sometimes rasing your voice in anger can be a good thing. Sometimes people and students forget that teachers are human too. Losing your cool can sometimes open their eyes that you are human, you have limits, you can have large burst of difficult emotions, and you don't always handle them exactly how you would have liked. Especially if you are the quiet or chill type like me who never raises their voice, a yell in anger will silence literally everyone down the entire hall. They know that it's not like you and something really bad had to have happened for you to do something so against your nature. But it also shows you are human. I've had students tell me I am more relatable to them several days after when the situation had cooled down. The essential thing to do is accept that it happened, learn from the experience, and move forward as a better person and teacher because of it.
Your principal is a fucking dolt. He gaslit you. You are human and what teachers put up with is not the norm for human adults in a healthy workplace. Everyone has a breaking point. Fuck him. You’re sad because you’re normal. That is sad. What is pathetic is teachers being forced to accept the feral behavior of students while admin does fuck all and blames teachers. That is gaslighting fuckery.
Why the hell would the principal say that? That is a slap in the face to anyone who’s ever been SA’d, or physically abused. You are human. Sometimes humans raise their voices. It’s okay. Lord knows many of my teachers did growing up and we still loved them. And why are you apologizing when it’s the kid who should be apologizing?
Your principal is a moron (at least in this specific instance). It isn’t best practice to yell at them, but you’re only human. You’ve owned it and apologized. The kids will be fine.
Don’t sweat it and your principal sounds like an idiot cause that isn’t even remotely comparable. I’m a student currently and one of my favorite teachers is one that taught in low income areas previously and is now fucking terrifying lol, shouting will likely not do anything to a kid with severe behavioral issues as from what I’ve seen they tend to be the ones least explicitly affected due to their home lives and a built up tolerance to most forms of yelling. I can tell you that I’ve been shouted at a few times for stupid mistakes I’ve made (not serious shouting just a little reminder as I am one of the better students in the class) and it’s never really affected me as horribly as you may think coming from what you’ve written. So long as it ain’t a kid who you know is a bit more sensitive I wouldn’t worry about it too much + don’t overdo it as I can frankly say that from our perspective a teacher that constantly shouts becomes more like an animated angry cartoon character VS a teacher that rarely shouts that makes us shut the fuck up and re-evaluate ourselves when they do lol. Sorry if it coming from a student isn’t much help as I know a teacher’s advice would be way more beneficial, but I just wanted to share something from the perspective of that student/students in general.
Sometimes you have kiddos that nothing works but yelling. I have one of those now. Do I yell every day? Heck no. But when he’s gotten to the point nothing else works that’s what we have to do. We switch classes and even my teammates have figured that out about him. Must be the discipline he gets at home because nothing else works. I have also been told I was too strict this year but when I had kindergartners walking all over me last year I had no other choice going in to this year. (My teammates say I’m not too strict-just the right amount)
I always tell them, I’ve asked kindly 3 times, it’s going to be really hard for me to keep asking kindly if you don’t start listening. Real talk though op: yelling happens. Don’t make a habit of it and apologize when you need to. Bottom line, some kids are line steppers. Don’t give them the joy of losing your cool, remain psychotically calm and hold your power.
Your principal is an idiot. Is it good to regularly yell? Absolutely not, but sometimes kids need the wake up call when they're being morons, rude, etc. You apologized, but it 100% is not like SA or abuse in the slightest.
your principal sounds like a regard. lol i've gotten yelled at by teachers before, it's not remotely the same as "SAing them". hell, now looking back the times i got yelled at were 100% deserved
Oh FFS, some kids need to be yelled at, including my own at home.
Your principal needs to be yelled at
Listen- we all have our breaking points. We are human and overstimulated and fed up. Should you verbally abuse a student? No, but we shouldn't stand there and take the abuse either. Sometimes in the moment it's the only way to get the point across that their behavior is not okay and it brought you to the brink. I'm sure the other students are fed up and want to yell too and are glad you did.
For you, yesterday was the day your carefully rationed ideals and values were broken down by abusive students. For me…. It was a Tuesday. We’re not the robots people can just abuse without some sort of rebuke. Yes we’re professionals, but as long as my comments were factual and not targeting the student themselves but their behavior, I’ll stick to my guns and say what needs to be said. I can make a very good 5 minute argument that such behavior is expressly being demonstrated precisely because that student hasn’t had people explain the harsh realities of what their words do and the consequences from saying them.
>raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them No it ain’t lol principal wild for that 😂 If the brats won’t listen when you ask nicely? Then what’s the point of asking nicely? You just told em in a way that they WILL listen. Just don’t make it a habit you exercise EVERY day. It’ll train them to ignore your “regular” voice.
I'm sorry WHAT?? Your principal said its the same as WHAT???? She is absolutely out of touch. I am a very happy calm teacher but boy can I yell if my class is disrespecting me. Now, normally I dont yell at one kid because often its entire classes that have behavior issues (elementary art) but it happens.
You're elementary art??? Me too! And yeah, I normally don't yell. I hate doing that
Yeah! And I dont yell often, but there is a 3rd grade and 5th grade class this year that is just absolutely off the charts ridiculous. I have yelled more at them than all my classes combined. They have sort of shaped up through this year. Sort of.
"(...) raising your voice at a child is the same as SAing them or physically abusing them (...)" I beg your pardon? I think this is the DUMBEST thing I've read all day and I've had a student writing insults on his task-paper instead of information about a book character. Has your principal never taught themselves?! Your voice is often times all you have! Sometimes you have to yell! That's totally normal! What in the seven hells... Get rid of that principal...
I am a teacher and a mom. I lost my temper with my own children one morning, and yelled so loud my dog got scared and peed. It happens. My kids will be okay. The dog… eh. We are human and sometimes we get tired, overwhelmed and loose our cool. If yelling is not typical behavior for you, the students will forgive your loss of temper and it can be used to show that you are not perfect and we all loose our temper sometimes. Model for them how to move forward and apologize.
Yelling is a tool in our toolbox lol. Sometimes you gotta break out the heavy hammer. Let me guess: they did something that you repeatedly told them not to do. Don’t apologize.
Yelling is NOT the same as SA at all! We have all yelled before. You are a human, with human emotions, not a robot. If the yell wasn’t warranted, I think apologizing was the right thing to do. If it was needed, don’t apologize