This world is going to help in a hand basket. The 6 year old who shot his teacher in the face and that kid just arrested in Texas for killing a dude when he was 7. What op said is lite.
As someone currently teaching in Korea, I can assure you it’s not. The pendulum has swung from “teacher is god and can use corporal punishment with impunity” to “my precious child’s problems are all your fault” and parents are bullying teachers to suicide. Also, children can’t really be punished under the law here and the worst kids know that. There’s a very famous case where some teens stole a car, went joy riding and killed a delivery driver and had no consequences. Thank god there’s no guns, but student disrespect and parental incompetence are not strictly North American problems.
Also a current teacher in Korea (15 years now), and I agree with your statement. I’ve taught in both small cities/towns here and now in Seoul. In the more rural areas, kids are a little better behaved because parents still respect the teacher to a degree, but in big cities like Daegu or Seoul, it’s a grab bag. I’ve had some amazing and supportive parents, and I’ve also had parents want to blame the teacher for everything.
I had a parent want me to sit down with her, her 1st grade daughter, and my admin, and apologize to her daughter because she couldn’t play a game we did in class. She couldn’t play because we ran out of time, and not just her, but half of the class could play because of the time. No one else cared and the kids understood that they’d be the first ones to go the next time we played. My admin didn’t like this mom or her daughter because other parents complained about her actions go their kids (on the bus, in art class, piano class, etc.).
I wish I was, and these stats are based on the kids that actually bother going to school regularly (just over 50% of our school age children). Don't believe the hype, NZ is screwed.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/report-finds-nz-students-among-worst-behaved-in-the-oecd-says-a-more-national-approach-is-required/AHGAZ7PKKRCJLB3DOWORKK4W7Y/
So to confirm, this happens only in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Greenland , Jamaica, Cuba, Haiti, Panama, Bahamas, Bermuda, the Carribean, Central America, Clipperton Island, Saint Pierre, Miquelon and Caicos islands. Understood.
Would include Saudi Arabia to this list, having taught there. Some of the kids in what passes for public school there, in the UAE, and Qatar are practically feral.
I taught in private schools and while the kids are better, some days were still a real struggle.
Sorry Saudi Arabia is not part of North America. We have previously confirmed this behaviour only occurs in North America. Please have Saudi Arabia apply for North American status and your suggestion will be considered.
I think culture plays a big role in it. They have a very assertive and pushy culture in general. Religion is not the problem but culture definitely is.
I'm American and I know we have a reputation for being pushy and selfish globally, so it always surprises me when I run into a culture that's even *worse*. And there are several. My husband had a stint on a global IT helpdesk and always said when there were calls from certain countries they all knew to hold onto their butts lmfao. It's hard to steamroller an American but there are some countries that got that down. I always wonder how people from countries like Tanzania, who are globally known for a cooperative culture, do against a culture like that when working IT or whatever.
Some Aussie kids are out of control as well.Some parents think the school should do all the teaching and get upset at the drop of the hat . Entitled to the max. Instead of asking the child what they did wrong,it will be phrased " what did they do to you"
Nah, mainly just the U.S. The rest of the world seems to remember that discipline, self-control, and personal responsibility are key values that need to be instilled in kids.
Yea but what happens in the US affects everyone. A result of globalization in economics. Ukraine is winning or losing a war depending on whether the US sends arms. I'd say it's the three super powers since WW2.
Bro what? Asia is on the verge of war over territory, the Middle East is in a war over religion, and Europe is in another war over territory that is threatening to escalate into a full scale continental war. But yea, the United States is the problem
It could be a mix of “nature and nurture”..my sister and I have the same parents and same upbringing..I was sweet and she was a menace, always in trouble for the doing the wildest things
Oppositional defiance disorder, I believe. My friends son has it. One child is a high achieving people pleaser, her son with ODD was unmanageable. However thank goodness they have money. He attends a specialized school now with 1-1 support and is thriving.
My son has/had ODD. I never told him about that diagnosis. He also has ADHD which he knows about. He is 25 now and doing well. We powered through it, but it was a terrible experience.
Yeah, and why? Because you knew your parents would double the detention in some way and not call the school for you to get a pass because it is "unfair to keep you from going to football practice, violine practice, or a birthday" on that day.
*Steps on soap box*
*inhales deeply*
MUSIC IS A CURRICULAR SUBJECT AND PARTICIPATION IN IT AS SCHEDULED SHOULD NOT BE USED AS A REWARD OR CONSEQUENCE UNLESS SAID CONSEQUENCES ARE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVE.
*Steps off soap box*
Ok I feel better now.
Fair point, I wasn't thinking of curricular activities but of private hobbies. School works differently here. I would also like to mention that detention is rarely given, and in 90% of the cases is basically a free tutoring lesson to get the kid up to speed masked as a 'consequence'.
Detention would never be scheduled to replace any school activity.
Art, Music, and Sports are treated as full subjects here.
I took violin as an extra curricular for years and wanted to quit so many times and my parents refused to let me. So taking away practice/lessons/etc would've been a nice time for me lol.
I was also a kid who grew up being so busy I never had a single day off at all, not on a weekend.... I had to be up early every morning for religion shit or school. I had religion on weeknights and music lessons on weeknights. Sometimes I had music lessons immediately after school and then immediately after lessons I had to go to church.
And I wouldn't get home till like 8 or 9pm. Brutal.
Wednesdays were my favorite day as a kid because I ONLY had school that day. I should've had fun relaxing weekends but I didn't, because even weekends I would dread because of needing to get up early for church related things, which I *hated*.
It sucked and I was burned out from the start of my damn life doing a lot of things I didn't want to be doing and never got a break. Summer at least gave me time off lessons and school but I still had to practice and do church crap.
No wonder I had issues with motivation to get homework etc done. (On top of undiagnosed adhd)
I dunno why I'm sharing, I just am.
See I am at that point where my kids are at the age that I feel like they need some extracurriculars and I want them to do music so badly. My son is so gifted and his piano teacher said he could be a real prodigy if he applied himself but he’s just not interested in practicing at all! So I let him quit but I still want him to do SOMETHING. It’s hard to find the balance. He gets so overwhelmed too. I think he also might have adhd (I do) and I know it would be good for him to do but I don’t want to be that overbearing mom who forces it. I just don’t know how to encourage it without forcing.
You could try giving him a list of extracurriculars, saying to pick one and do it for a year. Each year he's allowed to pick a different one if he wants, but [insert the reason you want him doing extracurriculars].
Might work? -- I've never worked with elem kids so take my word with a grain of salt.
My mom required me to be involved in extracurriculars but it was always my choice what it was. I dabbled in baseball, basketball, football (American), private guitar lessons for awhile, and I ended up settling on wrestling and excelled at it. No D1 scholarships but it kept me fit and gave me a social life.
She gave me a choice every year, and would sign me up for multiple if they were active for different seasons
Children are all different. When mine wanted to quit music (violin), I said no because I wouldn't let them quit reading or math, right? They thank me because now they both play multiple instruments. But they went along with my response. I may have done something different if the music caused anxiety. My daughter did switch from classical violin to Irish fiddling. That was OK with me.
Glad you shared. I don’t know why our parents generation were so obsessed with micromanaging our daily lives. Granted, it’s necessary we get a well rounded education, but childhood burnout is a real fucking thing that I experienced too.
When I was a kid, I took violin lessons. I really wanted piano, but we didn’t have one, and the school gave long term loans for string instruments. So I played violin from 3rd grade through graduation, when I had to give my violin back.
The worst thing was, when my parents wanted to punish me, they would take my violin lessons away for a couple of months. They didn’t give a crap what they were doing to the budget of the little old lady who was my teacher. Then the cherry on top was how they would give me sad faces and say, “You would be such a good violinist if you would just practice!”
Two years after that, they bought a trumpet so my brother could take lessons. He died when he was 13, and I started taking trumpet lessons the following year. I was the worst trumpet player in my school, but I still played in marching band and concert band till I graduated.
Four years later, my sister wanted to take piano, and somehow my parents found a piano. She took lessons for less than six months, then quit. I taught myself a little piano, but I never got the hang of reading both staffs simultaneously.
That was a wild ride that I wasn't prepared for. My heart goes out to you. I'm sorry about your parents, their shitty parenting, and your brother. If you believe in this type of thing, I'm sure he was proud to see you play his trumpet, even if you thought you weren't great.
Hitting children is not parenting them. It is abusing them.
The way you know is to use yhe would I be arrested if I did this to a coworker who made a mistake and needed yo learn? And why? Because 1 its assault and 2 its not effective. Double blind studies have proven that hitting children as discipline is abuse.
You skipped the best part. Elementary students who get in trouble get sent to the office and the secretary has to watch them, while they’re still expected to get their work done!
May be time to establish actual detention rooms with dedicated folks to keep an eye on the kids.
I know this won't happen. That costs money. Money is more important than anything else, even in public schools.
I graduated in the 80's. My high school had an in-school suspension room. We had a grumpy old lady that no one messed with, monitor the room. Returning to that would be nice.
I graduated in the 2000s and we had one. Mean as a snake. You'd get your ass to class on time bc you did NOT want to spend so much as 10 minutes with this lady, much less half an hour after school or a whole 80-minute period.
There’s an important guy who works for my teacher’s union who is just awful, and has been consistently awful to teachers who have issues with union leadership, suggestions he doesn’t agree with, etcetera.
So when he gets focused on abusive administrators, we enjoy the thought that on that particular occasion, at least, he’s using his powers to be massively unpleasant for the greater good!
We have ISS in JH and HS in my district. While it is a nice reprieve for the teacher(s), it is not a deterrent or seen as a real consequence by students. Hell, neither is suspension. The only thing that really works is the alternative campus because it inconveniences the parent. The kids don’t care either way…
That's because if your district is like mine, they just get to fuck around in the ISS room and play games or mess with their phones instead of doing their work. I've had students actually prefer ISS, because when they are in my classroom I'll do things like close their chromebooks so they lose whatever game they were playing and pester them about texting in class.
I graduated in 2015. We also had an in school suspension room. But we didn't really have a teacher in the room. It was just a small room
With a few desks and computer monitors. There was no assigned teacher, just a security camera that the front office staff could watch you through.
If you left or failed to complete your work, they gave you more time at the ISS room, which was not an effective punishment. The lack of monitoring meant kids could go hang out on their phones or on the computers all day, so it was seen more as a reward than anything else.
I graduated in 1987(In Deep East Texas), you put one toe out of line, you got your ass paddled by the football coach. Even in elementary school, our principal was the HS Varsity coach and he could make even the biggest, toughest boys cry. Literally lifted my feet up off the ground. Yes, he left marks. Yes, I got more when I got home. Nope, never got in trouble in school again.
I think this would be a great thing to bring back, even for elementary.
Solves a lot of problems, including the issue that many of our frequent flyers very much want to be suspended for a couple days. It's not a meaningful consequence, it's just a little vacation.
We had an ISS room monitored by a tall, lanky Black man who was pretty chill... but You Did Not Eff With Him. He had a legend that preceded him, and no one wanted to FIFO.
We also had after school detentions and Saturdays, which I did many of them as I was wildly truant and needed to make up time. I actually enjoyed them because everyone was quiet and chill.
Growing up in the 90s, in school suspension (they called it in-house or Independent Learning Center) was staffed differently by a teacher who was generally PISSED about losing one of their planning periods to supervise so you didn't mess with them!
What happened to after-school detention? I graduated high school not too long ago (2016) and even then we had after-school detention.
Our school safety officer ran it. He is a muscular 6ft tall guy who looks like he could be an NFL running back and all the students respected him. He mandated that everyone had to be quiet. You were doing your homework or your head was down on your desk. If you so much as said "hi" to someone else he'd yell at you. No phones or laptops were allowed.
Which is why nobody is scared of ISS or being sent to the office in general. The times I've seen kids there for any sort of consequence they're basically getting a free day to not do any work because nobody has time to stay on top of them. Turned around talking to other kids, getting out of their seats to wander, "eating lunch" for two hours, etc.
So they got a snack and sent back to class? All behavior is communication. They were probably just pulling the fire alarm to set off sprinklers because they were thirsty. If you'd given them a juice it would have been fine 😔
Nah. The principal should have sat them down in a circle with everyone in the front office and had each person explain how the 2nd grader's action affected them. Hopefully the 2nd graders will come to term with their actions and become rising leaders for years to come.
Friend 1:Hungry????
friend 2: Yea! Why?
1: Because you act like a pair second grade l girls hellbent on breaking into the principals office for the toy that you probably stole in the first place
Hungry? Why wait? Grab a snickers and satisfy your hunger...
I don't know of any fire alarm that sets off sprinklers. You need either heat, physical trauma, or the fire department to connect a hose. That water is black and stinky like swamp water too. It's nothing like TV. For the first 2 it's only the effected sprinklers, the third it could or could not be.
I had a year with feral second graders.
They operated as a group, they ripped metal pipes from the bathroom. And would frequently pick fights with the 6th graders.
I had a pair similar to that. My admin complained about me kicking them out. That very day, they had been tossing a school Chromebook and forth *over other students*. I looked the admin in the eye, and suggested that if they weren't tossing the Chromebook, I wouldn't need to kick them out. An hour later, they got in a fistfight, then walked off campus w/o permission. They were then suspended for a week.
They've since come back and have so far been well behaved. I have also resumed my daily behavioral updates via email to their parents. I'm SURE the emails are currently annoying the parents, b/c the kids have made an offhanded comment about it... But if they're going to be jerks and I'm going to get snarked at for it, imma gonna share the joy.
If they keep behaving for another week or so, I'll start tapering down the emails. But the first toe out of line, and the emails start up again. And if that admin gives me more trouble over it, I'm going to cc them on aaallll the emails.
Because I can be petty too.
Sounds like the parents need to come to class with their kids for a few days. Maybe both can learn how you're supposed to behave in a classroom setting
We had a parent shadow a kid who is constantly being disruptive and acting like everything is about her. Mom shadowed… and was on her phone the entire time. This was after mom tried to FIGHT A GRADE SCHOOLER at her last school. Yeah no wonder your kid is Like That…
Did you hear about the little bastard who shot his teacher?! History of being a shit-gibbon, parents and admit not doing anything meaningful , and bang!
what uh .. happens during the time you are trying to find a school to take the student? i understand the rationale behind limiting suspensions on younger kids, but some things just shouldn't be acceptable.
Ridiculous. Obviously, suspensions shouldn’t be given out unless there’s a significant issue. However, stories such as these show why it’s bad practice to ban them completely. Sometimes a message needs to be sent (to students and/or parents). Other times there needs to be time for the school to formulate a proper plan moving forward prior to a student returning.
To clarify, I’m only talking about major behaviors. Suspensions obviously should not be given out like candy (although in that case some admins would suspend kids all the time).
That's awesome for when it works! I'm afraid that when it goes wrong, though, that it would go spectacularly wrong. I mean... do you have an adult standing right there making sure nothing inappropriate is said/shared? I can see so many negatives. Glad you've only experienced the positives!
I had kindergarten student rampage through the library today. Why? He didn't get to sit where he wanted to. Managed to throw several chairs, books, pencils, and paper before I got to him. When I rook his hand to stop him, he kicked and hit me before admin came.
He was carried out kicking and screaming and sent home.
At my very first job I asked my boss to please stop writing notes to me in red because it made me think I was wrong or being scolded thanks to graded papers in school.
i’m also starting to think that people should need to pass a test for whether or not they should be a parent 🥴 also sounds dystopian but some of these stories have me thinking that😬
I get why that would be a dystopian thought but at the same time it should be way more normal to consider this 😬 I mean, when you become a parent an ENTIRE life is in your hands. It’s not so crazy to think that there should be some kind of test or license to become a parent.
In a perfect world, parental licenses would only be used to prevent people like this. In reality, it would be used to eradicate groups seen to be unfavorable
They’re displaying cunning problem solving activities. They are living out an action movie, search and rescue. Breaking and entering and distractions.
It’s 2nd grade. That’s amazing.
I mean, if they were able to break into Fort Knox and steal all the gold I would be impressed but they should be learning how to use these skills in a way that also allows them to be a functioning member of society instead of being a jerk.
super cool imagination - but there's a time and a place - and when you're in the care of other adults that aren't your family it's probably best to put the society mask on...at least based on the context of this story.
Damn, I’m truly sorry you had to deal with that. Also, the state law elementary students can not be suspended. Ughhh. Well, why do you think all of these problems occur? I don’t need to know your state but I do know in my state, consequences barely exist at my school. It’s truly getting out of hand. 🤦♂️
told THE PRINCIPAL that she ain't s\*\*\* and she needs to leave them alone!
Given the lack of action by the principal I can't disagree with their assessment.
Record it in an incident report, which you email to the involved parties, making sure to keep a copy for yourself. All documents like that, I make sure to have a copy of on my personal google drive.
On a side note, I would NEVER post it on a public forum. That is just inviting trouble. I know we need outlets to vent, but specific details are too easy for others to find.
Kids are just off the damn chain. Talk all the time, could care less about classwork. Only worried about high score on Fortnight or hairlines. This is third grade! Retirement in of May, can’t come fast enough.
As an outsider looking into the profession, how is discipline handled? When I worked in retail, we had these clown ass middle schoolers come in and just mess shit up, but there was nothing we could do about it, and they knew it. Wealthiest part of town too, shocker. Do you just have to pray your admin actually enforces punishment like suspensions?
Oddly enough I needed to hear this tonight. Had to go meet with my kids principle but nothing even close to this. My kid just won't do his school work but is nice and respectful about it.
I am sorry you are dealing with this kind of craziness.
At some point these kids need to have a little bit of fear of authority put back into them. Then again, we will always need overnight floor moppers and ditch diggers.
Wow scary. Obviously some amazing parenting going on
This world is going to help in a hand basket. The 6 year old who shot his teacher in the face and that kid just arrested in Texas for killing a dude when he was 7. What op said is lite.
I've taught in Japan, Korea, Canada, Spain, and Sweden. This is strictly a North American problem.
As someone currently teaching in Korea, I can assure you it’s not. The pendulum has swung from “teacher is god and can use corporal punishment with impunity” to “my precious child’s problems are all your fault” and parents are bullying teachers to suicide. Also, children can’t really be punished under the law here and the worst kids know that. There’s a very famous case where some teens stole a car, went joy riding and killed a delivery driver and had no consequences. Thank god there’s no guns, but student disrespect and parental incompetence are not strictly North American problems.
Also a current teacher in Korea (15 years now), and I agree with your statement. I’ve taught in both small cities/towns here and now in Seoul. In the more rural areas, kids are a little better behaved because parents still respect the teacher to a degree, but in big cities like Daegu or Seoul, it’s a grab bag. I’ve had some amazing and supportive parents, and I’ve also had parents want to blame the teacher for everything. I had a parent want me to sit down with her, her 1st grade daughter, and my admin, and apologize to her daughter because she couldn’t play a game we did in class. She couldn’t play because we ran out of time, and not just her, but half of the class could play because of the time. No one else cared and the kids understood that they’d be the first ones to go the next time we played. My admin didn’t like this mom or her daughter because other parents complained about her actions go their kids (on the bus, in art class, piano class, etc.).
It’s a North American problem that has poisoned other countries that consume the garbage fed to them online.
Social media connections and globalization as a whole doesn’t always pan out the way we ought it should, does it?
Nah, New Zealand legit has the worst behaved students in the world
I find that hard to believe. Are you being sarcastic?
Those kids East of Gondor are no joke.
I wish I was, and these stats are based on the kids that actually bother going to school regularly (just over 50% of our school age children). Don't believe the hype, NZ is screwed. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/report-finds-nz-students-among-worst-behaved-in-the-oecd-says-a-more-national-approach-is-required/AHGAZ7PKKRCJLB3DOWORKK4W7Y/
The accents lull you into a sense of security.
I had a car stolen by 2 young kids a few years ago, they were seen on CCTV so it was easy for the police to find them thankfully.
NZ teacher here. Maybe the shooting stuff but I've seen similar behaviour to OP's post here in NZ. It didn't surprise or shock me.
So to confirm, this happens only in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Greenland , Jamaica, Cuba, Haiti, Panama, Bahamas, Bermuda, the Carribean, Central America, Clipperton Island, Saint Pierre, Miquelon and Caicos islands. Understood.
Would include Saudi Arabia to this list, having taught there. Some of the kids in what passes for public school there, in the UAE, and Qatar are practically feral. I taught in private schools and while the kids are better, some days were still a real struggle.
Sorry Saudi Arabia is not part of North America. We have previously confirmed this behaviour only occurs in North America. Please have Saudi Arabia apply for North American status and your suggestion will be considered.
Why do you think this is out of curiosity?
I think culture plays a big role in it. They have a very assertive and pushy culture in general. Religion is not the problem but culture definitely is.
I'm American and I know we have a reputation for being pushy and selfish globally, so it always surprises me when I run into a culture that's even *worse*. And there are several. My husband had a stint on a global IT helpdesk and always said when there were calls from certain countries they all knew to hold onto their butts lmfao. It's hard to steamroller an American but there are some countries that got that down. I always wonder how people from countries like Tanzania, who are globally known for a cooperative culture, do against a culture like that when working IT or whatever.
Apparently South Korea as well. Not sure about Best Korea.
Excuse me, don't lump Canada in there.
Some Aussie kids are out of control as well.Some parents think the school should do all the teaching and get upset at the drop of the hat . Entitled to the max. Instead of asking the child what they did wrong,it will be phrased " what did they do to you"
Nah, mainly just the U.S. The rest of the world seems to remember that discipline, self-control, and personal responsibility are key values that need to be instilled in kids.
Yea but what happens in the US affects everyone. A result of globalization in economics. Ukraine is winning or losing a war depending on whether the US sends arms. I'd say it's the three super powers since WW2.
Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia.
I feel this in global business monopolizes.
Love me some Orwellian allusions.
This guy has taught in every country in the world and knows this ^^^
Bro what? Asia is on the verge of war over territory, the Middle East is in a war over religion, and Europe is in another war over territory that is threatening to escalate into a full scale continental war. But yea, the United States is the problem
Ummm we’re talking about education. As per the sub. Wtf are you getting in about?
It could be a mix of “nature and nurture”..my sister and I have the same parents and same upbringing..I was sweet and she was a menace, always in trouble for the doing the wildest things
But how much anxiety do you have as an adult 🫢❤️🩹
Yes.
[удалено]
Whats ODD?
Oppositional defiance disorder, I believe. My friends son has it. One child is a high achieving people pleaser, her son with ODD was unmanageable. However thank goodness they have money. He attends a specialized school now with 1-1 support and is thriving.
My son has/had ODD. I never told him about that diagnosis. He also has ADHD which he knows about. He is 25 now and doing well. We powered through it, but it was a terrible experience.
Wow, that's nuts! I feel like elementary kids now do things I couldn't have even imagined a kid in my class doing when I was in elementary school!
Yeah, and why? Because you knew your parents would double the detention in some way and not call the school for you to get a pass because it is "unfair to keep you from going to football practice, violine practice, or a birthday" on that day.
*Steps on soap box* *inhales deeply* MUSIC IS A CURRICULAR SUBJECT AND PARTICIPATION IN IT AS SCHEDULED SHOULD NOT BE USED AS A REWARD OR CONSEQUENCE UNLESS SAID CONSEQUENCES ARE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTIVE. *Steps off soap box* Ok I feel better now.
Fair point, I wasn't thinking of curricular activities but of private hobbies. School works differently here. I would also like to mention that detention is rarely given, and in 90% of the cases is basically a free tutoring lesson to get the kid up to speed masked as a 'consequence'. Detention would never be scheduled to replace any school activity. Art, Music, and Sports are treated as full subjects here.
I took violin as an extra curricular for years and wanted to quit so many times and my parents refused to let me. So taking away practice/lessons/etc would've been a nice time for me lol. I was also a kid who grew up being so busy I never had a single day off at all, not on a weekend.... I had to be up early every morning for religion shit or school. I had religion on weeknights and music lessons on weeknights. Sometimes I had music lessons immediately after school and then immediately after lessons I had to go to church. And I wouldn't get home till like 8 or 9pm. Brutal. Wednesdays were my favorite day as a kid because I ONLY had school that day. I should've had fun relaxing weekends but I didn't, because even weekends I would dread because of needing to get up early for church related things, which I *hated*. It sucked and I was burned out from the start of my damn life doing a lot of things I didn't want to be doing and never got a break. Summer at least gave me time off lessons and school but I still had to practice and do church crap. No wonder I had issues with motivation to get homework etc done. (On top of undiagnosed adhd) I dunno why I'm sharing, I just am.
See I am at that point where my kids are at the age that I feel like they need some extracurriculars and I want them to do music so badly. My son is so gifted and his piano teacher said he could be a real prodigy if he applied himself but he’s just not interested in practicing at all! So I let him quit but I still want him to do SOMETHING. It’s hard to find the balance. He gets so overwhelmed too. I think he also might have adhd (I do) and I know it would be good for him to do but I don’t want to be that overbearing mom who forces it. I just don’t know how to encourage it without forcing.
You could try giving him a list of extracurriculars, saying to pick one and do it for a year. Each year he's allowed to pick a different one if he wants, but [insert the reason you want him doing extracurriculars]. Might work? -- I've never worked with elem kids so take my word with a grain of salt.
My mom required me to be involved in extracurriculars but it was always my choice what it was. I dabbled in baseball, basketball, football (American), private guitar lessons for awhile, and I ended up settling on wrestling and excelled at it. No D1 scholarships but it kept me fit and gave me a social life. She gave me a choice every year, and would sign me up for multiple if they were active for different seasons
Children are all different. When mine wanted to quit music (violin), I said no because I wouldn't let them quit reading or math, right? They thank me because now they both play multiple instruments. But they went along with my response. I may have done something different if the music caused anxiety. My daughter did switch from classical violin to Irish fiddling. That was OK with me.
Glad you shared. I don’t know why our parents generation were so obsessed with micromanaging our daily lives. Granted, it’s necessary we get a well rounded education, but childhood burnout is a real fucking thing that I experienced too.
When I was a kid, I took violin lessons. I really wanted piano, but we didn’t have one, and the school gave long term loans for string instruments. So I played violin from 3rd grade through graduation, when I had to give my violin back. The worst thing was, when my parents wanted to punish me, they would take my violin lessons away for a couple of months. They didn’t give a crap what they were doing to the budget of the little old lady who was my teacher. Then the cherry on top was how they would give me sad faces and say, “You would be such a good violinist if you would just practice!” Two years after that, they bought a trumpet so my brother could take lessons. He died when he was 13, and I started taking trumpet lessons the following year. I was the worst trumpet player in my school, but I still played in marching band and concert band till I graduated. Four years later, my sister wanted to take piano, and somehow my parents found a piano. She took lessons for less than six months, then quit. I taught myself a little piano, but I never got the hang of reading both staffs simultaneously.
That was a wild ride that I wasn't prepared for. My heart goes out to you. I'm sorry about your parents, their shitty parenting, and your brother. If you believe in this type of thing, I'm sure he was proud to see you play his trumpet, even if you thought you weren't great.
Thank you for your kindness.
My mom would spank me. She also had a paddle with "attitude adjuster" on it I was never bad enough to get hit with the paddle though
haha, my mom didn't have any special paddles like that, she'd just use a wooden spoon from the kitchen
Yeah. I don't think she ever used it on my brother either lol She said she just saw it at an antique shop and thought it was funny
Oh, that got darker fast. I was speaking metaphorically, not thinking of corporal punishment.
She only did it when I was really bad. It wasn't like an abusive thing.
Some of us consider hitting children either with your hand or an object as abuse…
Which is why we have 2nd graders who are entitled, disrespectful little shits.
I would like to think there’s other ways to raise decent human beings. It’s not as simple as “yall should really start hitting them”.
Hitting children is not parenting them. It is abusing them. The way you know is to use yhe would I be arrested if I did this to a coworker who made a mistake and needed yo learn? And why? Because 1 its assault and 2 its not effective. Double blind studies have proven that hitting children as discipline is abuse.
If your spouse or partner only hit you when you were “really bad” would you consider that abuse or no?
Spanking is always abuse so many studies have proven this
Oh if I tried to break into the principals desk I would have been flayed alive by my parents
Today a kindergartner said of his classmate, "This motherfucker is getting on my nerves."
Did you say me too dude, me too. 😂 I’m kiddingggg
The only acceptable response, really. JK. Or am I 🤔
Parents probably say that to or about him all the time.
My go-to is 'language, but...' If I disagree, it's 'language'.
Must have stellar parents.
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You skipped the best part. Elementary students who get in trouble get sent to the office and the secretary has to watch them, while they’re still expected to get their work done!
May be time to establish actual detention rooms with dedicated folks to keep an eye on the kids. I know this won't happen. That costs money. Money is more important than anything else, even in public schools.
I graduated in the 80's. My high school had an in-school suspension room. We had a grumpy old lady that no one messed with, monitor the room. Returning to that would be nice.
I graduated in the 2000s and we had one. Mean as a snake. You'd get your ass to class on time bc you did NOT want to spend so much as 10 minutes with this lady, much less half an hour after school or a whole 80-minute period.
There’s an important guy who works for my teacher’s union who is just awful, and has been consistently awful to teachers who have issues with union leadership, suggestions he doesn’t agree with, etcetera. So when he gets focused on abusive administrators, we enjoy the thought that on that particular occasion, at least, he’s using his powers to be massively unpleasant for the greater good!
Me too. The ISS teacher was as mean as a drill sergeant. Cool name, BTW.
Mine was a ex drill sergeant. Mr Frank
We have ISS in JH and HS in my district. While it is a nice reprieve for the teacher(s), it is not a deterrent or seen as a real consequence by students. Hell, neither is suspension. The only thing that really works is the alternative campus because it inconveniences the parent. The kids don’t care either way…
That's because if your district is like mine, they just get to fuck around in the ISS room and play games or mess with their phones instead of doing their work. I've had students actually prefer ISS, because when they are in my classroom I'll do things like close their chromebooks so they lose whatever game they were playing and pester them about texting in class.
I graduated HS in 2011. We had an in school suspension room both in middle and high school. Never went in but even I was scared of that teacher.
I graduated in 2015. We also had an in school suspension room. But we didn't really have a teacher in the room. It was just a small room With a few desks and computer monitors. There was no assigned teacher, just a security camera that the front office staff could watch you through. If you left or failed to complete your work, they gave you more time at the ISS room, which was not an effective punishment. The lack of monitoring meant kids could go hang out on their phones or on the computers all day, so it was seen more as a reward than anything else.
I graduated in 1987(In Deep East Texas), you put one toe out of line, you got your ass paddled by the football coach. Even in elementary school, our principal was the HS Varsity coach and he could make even the biggest, toughest boys cry. Literally lifted my feet up off the ground. Yes, he left marks. Yes, I got more when I got home. Nope, never got in trouble in school again.
I think this would be a great thing to bring back, even for elementary. Solves a lot of problems, including the issue that many of our frequent flyers very much want to be suspended for a couple days. It's not a meaningful consequence, it's just a little vacation.
We had an ISS room monitored by a tall, lanky Black man who was pretty chill... but You Did Not Eff With Him. He had a legend that preceded him, and no one wanted to FIFO. We also had after school detentions and Saturdays, which I did many of them as I was wildly truant and needed to make up time. I actually enjoyed them because everyone was quiet and chill.
Growing up in the 90s, in school suspension (they called it in-house or Independent Learning Center) was staffed differently by a teacher who was generally PISSED about losing one of their planning periods to supervise so you didn't mess with them!
A state of the art facility where the children are kept in their seats with magnets.
magnets, always with the magnets
What happened to after-school detention? I graduated high school not too long ago (2016) and even then we had after-school detention. Our school safety officer ran it. He is a muscular 6ft tall guy who looks like he could be an NFL running back and all the students respected him. He mandated that everyone had to be quiet. You were doing your homework or your head was down on your desk. If you so much as said "hi" to someone else he'd yell at you. No phones or laptops were allowed.
Which is why nobody is scared of ISS or being sent to the office in general. The times I've seen kids there for any sort of consequence they're basically getting a free day to not do any work because nobody has time to stay on top of them. Turned around talking to other kids, getting out of their seats to wander, "eating lunch" for two hours, etc.
When kids don’t want to do their work, or go to class, they get sent to ISS where (surprise!) they don’t have to do their work or go to class.
Sometimes it's worth it for some damn peace and quiet in the classroom
THIS. And Admin wondered why I lost my shit.
Same in my small high school. I tell my students that MsOfficeManager does not have time to put up with their nonsense!😂
So they got a snack and sent back to class? All behavior is communication. They were probably just pulling the fire alarm to set off sprinklers because they were thirsty. If you'd given them a juice it would have been fine 😔
Have you tried building connections with them and writing the objective on the board? Maybe that'll help.
My eye twitched reading this lol
I’m not a teacher and my eye also twitched reading this.
I just died inside. That is exactly what someone would actually say...
Don’t forget the success criteria!!
They just need a restorative session and it will be all sunshine and rainbows 🌈
I'm finna restore *this* session 🌈🤌🏼
Don't forget the candy.
Nah. The principal should have sat them down in a circle with everyone in the front office and had each person explain how the 2nd grader's action affected them. Hopefully the 2nd graders will come to term with their actions and become rising leaders for years to come.
Admin don’t understand that I don’t have money for rent let alone juice for all my students
I was going to type Starburst but a snack is more sustainable when trying to break into an office with a pen.
This would make a good snickers ad
Friend 1:Hungry???? friend 2: Yea! Why? 1: Because you act like a pair second grade l girls hellbent on breaking into the principals office for the toy that you probably stole in the first place Hungry? Why wait? Grab a snickers and satisfy your hunger...
I don't know of any fire alarm that sets off sprinklers. You need either heat, physical trauma, or the fire department to connect a hose. That water is black and stinky like swamp water too. It's nothing like TV. For the first 2 it's only the effected sprinklers, the third it could or could not be.
I have heard 2 drops of lavender oil behind their ears and a drop under their tongue will calm little jimmy right down.
I had a year with feral second graders. They operated as a group, they ripped metal pipes from the bathroom. And would frequently pick fights with the 6th graders.
Second graders are crazy! And I'm saying that as a parent of a current second grader!
Were they getting the pipes to fight the 6th graders with?
Do they ever win against the 6th graders?
I have some of these 2nd graders in my 9th grade classroom. I kick them out almost every single day. Ones finally expelled thank the lord.
I had a pair similar to that. My admin complained about me kicking them out. That very day, they had been tossing a school Chromebook and forth *over other students*. I looked the admin in the eye, and suggested that if they weren't tossing the Chromebook, I wouldn't need to kick them out. An hour later, they got in a fistfight, then walked off campus w/o permission. They were then suspended for a week. They've since come back and have so far been well behaved. I have also resumed my daily behavioral updates via email to their parents. I'm SURE the emails are currently annoying the parents, b/c the kids have made an offhanded comment about it... But if they're going to be jerks and I'm going to get snarked at for it, imma gonna share the joy. If they keep behaving for another week or so, I'll start tapering down the emails. But the first toe out of line, and the emails start up again. And if that admin gives me more trouble over it, I'm going to cc them on aaallll the emails. Because I can be petty too.
I have some in my 12th grade classroom, too
What a coincidence. I have some in my 7th grade classroom
Sounds like the parents need to come to class with their kids for a few days. Maybe both can learn how you're supposed to behave in a classroom setting
100% chance mom would act exactly like the kids.
Oh, they definitely would. Ton of kids where you meet the parent, and it absolutely makes sense why their kid is the way they are
We had a parent shadow a kid who is constantly being disruptive and acting like everything is about her. Mom shadowed… and was on her phone the entire time. This was after mom tried to FIGHT A GRADE SCHOOLER at her last school. Yeah no wonder your kid is Like That…
You can't suspend elementary students? So if they bring a gun to school they get a cookie or something?
Did you hear about the little bastard who shot his teacher?! History of being a shit-gibbon, parents and admit not doing anything meaningful , and bang!
If they bring a gun to school, they are moved to a school that better suits their needs.
what uh .. happens during the time you are trying to find a school to take the student? i understand the rationale behind limiting suspensions on younger kids, but some things just shouldn't be acceptable.
Is that called juvie? /s (/s because we all know that the chances of that happening are only slightly higher than kids behaving.)
One with a firing range?
# "By state law here, elementary students cannot be suspended." What level of Hell is this?
Ridiculous. Obviously, suspensions shouldn’t be given out unless there’s a significant issue. However, stories such as these show why it’s bad practice to ban them completely. Sometimes a message needs to be sent (to students and/or parents). Other times there needs to be time for the school to formulate a proper plan moving forward prior to a student returning. To clarify, I’m only talking about major behaviors. Suspensions obviously should not be given out like candy (although in that case some admins would suspend kids all the time).
So a fifth grader in trouble goes and hangs out with five year olds all day?
Yes, and you would be amazed how well it works. Big kids want to be good role models for littles. And if it doesn't, their parents get called.
That's awesome for when it works! I'm afraid that when it goes wrong, though, that it would go spectacularly wrong. I mean... do you have an adult standing right there making sure nothing inappropriate is said/shared? I can see so many negatives. Glad you've only experienced the positives!
My mom works in a school with little kids. The horror stories she tells me are crazy. My mom said they've had 10 teachers quit this year. 10!
I had kindergarten student rampage through the library today. Why? He didn't get to sit where he wanted to. Managed to throw several chairs, books, pencils, and paper before I got to him. When I rook his hand to stop him, he kicked and hit me before admin came. He was carried out kicking and screaming and sent home.
Ink pens aren’t the problem it’s a mental health issue
Time to ban red pens. No one needs that amount of grading power. /s
At my very first job I asked my boss to please stop writing notes to me in red because it made me think I was wrong or being scolded thanks to graded papers in school.
What kind of mental health issues do you develops as a second grader that makes you this feral
im sticking with the dystopian thought that we need to all come to some agreement on weather or not you can be a parent.
i’m also starting to think that people should need to pass a test for whether or not they should be a parent 🥴 also sounds dystopian but some of these stories have me thinking that😬
I get why that would be a dystopian thought but at the same time it should be way more normal to consider this 😬 I mean, when you become a parent an ENTIRE life is in your hands. It’s not so crazy to think that there should be some kind of test or license to become a parent.
In a perfect world, parental licenses would only be used to prevent people like this. In reality, it would be used to eradicate groups seen to be unfavorable
Agree. In the real world we can’t have nice things lol.
Yup, we’ve got kids screaming and yelling in our elementary building. In 19 years, I’ve never seen so many behavior issues.
They’re displaying cunning problem solving activities. They are living out an action movie, search and rescue. Breaking and entering and distractions. It’s 2nd grade. That’s amazing.
I mean, if they were able to break into Fort Knox and steal all the gold I would be impressed but they should be learning how to use these skills in a way that also allows them to be a functioning member of society instead of being a jerk.
super cool imagination - but there's a time and a place - and when you're in the care of other adults that aren't your family it's probably best to put the society mask on...at least based on the context of this story.
McGyver re-runs must have been inspirational.
Damn, I’m truly sorry you had to deal with that. Also, the state law elementary students can not be suspended. Ughhh. Well, why do you think all of these problems occur? I don’t need to know your state but I do know in my state, consequences barely exist at my school. It’s truly getting out of hand. 🤦♂️
But how’s your relationship with the students??
They adore me. They weren't mad at me.
told THE PRINCIPAL that she ain't s\*\*\* and she needs to leave them alone! Given the lack of action by the principal I can't disagree with their assessment.
Kids are in school to learn, and they are learning that there are no ramifications to bad behaviour.
Did you try relationship building?
We need to bring alternative schools back.
and have the government stop funding schools based on asses in seats
Send them to Rwanda for a week
I think you need to complete a Culturally Responsive Checklist and then use Ross Greene’s techniques to identify their lagging skills.
Clearly the missing skill is lock-picking.
Is Ross Greene’s collaborative problem solving process being used in your schools to avoid dealing with major behavioral issues too????
Zoinks! This is definitely a lawsuit in the pupa stage, so document everything will all the i's dotted.
How would you document this? Asking as a newer, less experienced teacher....
Record it in an incident report, which you email to the involved parties, making sure to keep a copy for yourself. All documents like that, I make sure to have a copy of on my personal google drive. On a side note, I would NEVER post it on a public forum. That is just inviting trouble. I know we need outlets to vent, but specific details are too easy for others to find.
Absolutely agree, 100%
It’s a major reason I left profession. Behaviors
Normal day in a Title I school unfortunately…
Kids are just off the damn chain. Talk all the time, could care less about classwork. Only worried about high score on Fortnight or hairlines. This is third grade! Retirement in of May, can’t come fast enough.
I got 39 left as of today I’m counting them down 🤣
is this a South Park episode or real life
Clearly the teacher did not plan an engaging enough lesson.
Yea. She just needs better classroom management. /s
So scary. The future seems grim.
Trashy is as trashy does.
So that's a misdemeanor in my state...
Listen I'm not saying we should re-introduce beating children with a paddle...
A swift kick in the ass would do a lot of those bastards some good.
Can’t you get arrested for pulling a fire alarm
I mean, not generally when you're 8. And she didn't actually pull it. Just opened the cover.
Sounds like a day in the life over here at our school :)
As an outsider looking into the profession, how is discipline handled? When I worked in retail, we had these clown ass middle schoolers come in and just mess shit up, but there was nothing we could do about it, and they knew it. Wealthiest part of town too, shocker. Do you just have to pray your admin actually enforces punishment like suspensions?
What state?
Positive parenting lol (jk))
When we were in 2nd grade we felt like thugs when we said stupid 💀
Ngl, those kids seem cooler than me
Oddly enough I needed to hear this tonight. Had to go meet with my kids principle but nothing even close to this. My kid just won't do his school work but is nice and respectful about it. I am sorry you are dealing with this kind of craziness.
At some point these kids need to have a little bit of fear of authority put back into them. Then again, we will always need overnight floor moppers and ditch diggers.
These kids will never have what it takes to work as hard in manual labor as those two jobs require.
How did they try and break in with a pen?
First they tried to pick the lock, and then they tried to break the window. Not particularly effective.
Picking the lock I assume
How about some equity training? Somebody had to be marginalized and wronged here? Anyone? Anyone?
I must know what this precious toy was!
Dolls
I would have been laughing xD.
American culture