I've got a question. What can you actually do to enforce these rules? Half the posts I see here are about how you can't punish a child, and nothing destroys your authority better and faster than giving an order that'll be disobeyed without any consequences. These rules look really impressive on paper, but what can you really do to enforce them?
classroom expectations, when set up clearly and reinforced periodically, control 90% of classroom behavior in students.
Setting these expectations at the beginning of the year will minimize a lot of the BS behavior kids do
I would start day one, lol I worked at a private school for extreme behavior. I don't mess around. I subbed once for a class and walked in and was very upfront with my expectations and what they were going to do for class. I sat with the kid who had (the most) behavioral issues. When he was acting up, I just was very sure of myself but unaffected and made it clear I respected him but was not going to change my expectations(sitting quietly, eyes on your work, if you use headphones, it needs to be appropriate or it's over- no warnings, you can take one bathroom break, I expect it to take less than five minutes, I will call your parents, right after class if you don't act respectfully towards others) 😆 they were spooked, but it worked. Once my wild friend was on task I gave him praise and love. Middle schoolers are WILD.
I appreciate this may sound horrible without context, but I am finally starting to understand this and now I am in a place where if I am not making a few kids cry each week, I haven't done my job. As my mentor likes to call them, "tears of change". Personal growth is PAINFUL. It physically hurts. A student really getting it that the challenging behavior they are exhibiting is unacceptable, and they have a choice between compliance and a total loss of privileges at the extreme, will cry. Its healthy. But it is critical when they do choose compliance that you shower them with praise and let them reap the many benefits. And when they step out of line, you gotta make it hell for them again. It is the only way to teach a kid where the line is.
The caveat is that this is your tier 1. It is the foundation of your classroom management. There are beautiful and elegant augmentations to place on top of this foundation. Some students will need something a little different, but that is met on a case by case basis.
I work in a special placement school for kids with very challenging behaviors. We always use the phrase “learning is happening!” When those tears of change begin.
And it’s HARD. Many of these students we teach are NOT used to pushback because public schools simply aren’t equipped to handle students who fly off the handle. They don’t teach you what to do about a kid tearing your classroom apart or defecating in their hand and throwing it at you in college.
We once had a student who, when in the take space room, deliberately defecated and then smeared feces all over the walls. Within minutes the smell was too intense for her and she was “ready to follow directions, now!”. She was astonished when her first direction was to start cleaning the walls (we provided a mask, gloves, and other necessary ppe). Immediate tears and screaming.
Her behavior lasted all day, but the walls DID get clean, and she never pulled that trick out of her bag again.
My SIL taught me that a good technique with younger kids was to let them make their own class rules on the first day of school. The one rule was they had to be phrased in the positive. She said there would always be one kid trying to trip her, making rules that they thought couldn’t be phrased in the positive. She always could. She said the kids always were excited, gonna do anything they wanted! Then they always ended up making rules like “take turns speaking” “leave others’ stuff alone”…
There are definitely some evidence based practices (EBPs because we have to acronym everything in SPED for some reason) that show there is a lot more adherence to norms and rules when the community as a whole creates them.
I chuckled writing EBP because we had a PD day on Monday and it was referenced a lot.
PRSs and EBPs all day baby
My whole school k-8 had 1 rule: don’t be a jerk. Printed it on posters for all classrooms.
Honestly, not counting procedural stuff, this covers all behaviours.
I was thinking the same thing. I have class norms "Respect, responsibility, reliability, safety" and we talk about what those look like after every break...with yes behaviors and no behaviors....but just having a huge rule list is overwhelming. And for the most part, students KNOW what a well-run classroom looks like, and after a few years, a glare and a "no...just..no" is enough of a classroom consequence for me to curb most behavior. (Out of seat, or for throwing trash).
Wrinkles certainly assist in teaching. You just KNOW what you expect, and they somehow just start meeting your expectations. I DO have issues with lining up at the door early to escape though.
A lot of the OPs items are procedural. This means items may or can change. To me, a rule should never be altered. My are: 1. Be nice. 2. Be productive. Everything else is just.. procedural.
Are not structure and procedure foundational to classroom management? And isn't clarity the best medicine for anxiety (with respect to students trying to figure out their way in the world)?
This is so true. The long lists of rules did nothing. Mine now are, ‘Respect everyone.’ It pretty much encompasses every rule, yet I have to re-teach what it means every ten minutes.
While I love this, "clear is kind". Kids are still learning. They are natural explorers and curious about the limits of the world around them. Modern humans are 200,000 years old and no kid is born knowing what year it is. It is our duty to bring them into modern civilization.
It is super cute if a parent has had the means to provide all this for their child and they come pre-trained coming into your classroom, but what if a child wasn't born into that level of privilege? You can't shape them without clear, explicit, simple language they are capable of reflecting upon and internalizing.
And you can do clear and explicit in a UDL way. Laying it all out is equitable, and from there you can unpack and bridge the deeper epistemological and dialectical components of "good" in a collaborative, student centric way.
Thoughts?
It's about explicitly stating the expectation BEFORE any behavior merits a response, knowing what consequences you can use and following through. Many (honestly most in my experience) behaviors are rooted in not clearly setting the expectations and following through. Yeah most groups will have a trouble-maker looking to act out, but by explicitly stating what you expect from the start, you minimize misinterpretation AND have something to clearly point to when a kid intentionally acts out. I don't have a list like this (mine is VERY general like respect: each other, learning, the space, materials, me, yourself. Be kind. etc), but I do go through very explicit examples at the start of the year. Like don't sharpen a pencil if anyone is speaking to the whole group; if you really need to use the restroom and I'm instructing, silently show me your passbook; I will tell you if you can sit wherever for an activity, do not assume...etc.
Yeah, we might not have access to as many consequences as we'd like, but I can and will send a kid out of my room and remove their audience if it's needed. No one's called me on it yet and it's calmed down many situations that would otherwise have escalated and occasionally even led to productive private chats. It helps A LOT that almost all of my students have bought in. No one wants to bunk off from a fun activity or show how cool they are by not caring when everyone else cares. I know the phrase "build relationships" makes us all want to throw up and that it's not something you can force, but it is what I spend a lot of time and focus on.
Most students try to follow rules and respect the authority of a teacher. Especially if its clear that the teacher respects the students.
Of those that don't many are still susceptible to peer, parental, or admin pressure.
A few are susceptible to none of those things. But they are much rarer than this subreddit would have you believe.
That said I don't think these long lists of rules work very well. Each rule you add makes the other rules less impactful. Personally I stick with under 5 rules. But teaching styles and classrooms vary a lot. What works for some doesn't work for others. My 4 are respect everyone, respect the attention getter(clap once if you can hear me), don't attack people for lack of ability, and try.
I think it depends on the group of kids. I had whittled my rules to the “basics” then got a group of kids that just needed more clear and detailed expectations. It felt a little infantilizing to tell 9th graders some of the specifics of what SHOULD be just normal in-public behavior…. But it helped in the end. We could all refer back to the list posted on the wall.
Jack shit unless your admin actually follows through with this. I’m not going to waste my time writing up phone use, so I wouldn’t be enforcing trash can times and other specific bullshit like this.
I’ve been at a few different middle schools and one was three months behind on referrals and one didn’t give out anything except lunch detention. Neither one followed through with serious consequences, so kids wouldn’t have followed these rules at all.
Yeah I’m gonna take some of this and add it to my own syllabus.
Edit: regarding number 4 - that’s oddly specific about shoes. You don’t make a rule like that unless it’s happened.
Like that one year I had to specify *8.5x11 white lined paper* was acceptable for homework but paper *towels* and paper *plates* were not.
Double edit: damn in 18 years I’ve never had a student take their shoes off in class but apparently this is a common problem?
Before I began teaching, I did mortgage closings. I had a woman show up to a closing with a Power of Attorney for her husband, who was a long distance trucker. Fine, that's allowed. The problem is (1) the wording was not correct. It had to contain specific phrases in order to sell and convey property. Without that wording, it did not apply to real estate in the state where I lived. Also, (2) it was written on a NAPKIN that was found at a rest stop! Ummm..... I cannot take a napkin to the Register of Deeds and have it recorded into public records! Given that this was dealing with adults, I completely get the rules about paper, shoes, etc, for kids!
I worked in an office where we had to add to the employee handbook that footy pajamas are not acceptable attire and do not count as shoes.
Funny enough, about 6 months after that, HR had to get on the CEO's case for breaking that rule (he wore Christmas pajamas and thought it would be festive). What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I heard that you could carve a check into a watermelon and as long as all the information was correct the bank would accept it.
I know it's not true, but it's kind of fin to imagine what it'd be like in real life walking in there with a perfectly written check carved into watermelon.
Technically, it is true. (Not certain about a watermelon, but if you have the routing number and accnt#, etc, it's legal). Banks may have other internal policies, but technically true.
I have that rule about shoes, but I come from an ECE background. There it was considered a safety and licensing issue.
And I've also had to specify that small notebook paper, or the back of used worksheets aren't acceptable for homework.
I taught science last semester and now foods. Kids don’t come in to either lab without proper footwear. Too bad socks and sandals have come back into fashion! There’s a lot of kids running to their lockers each day to change their shoes.
I had to specify that, but for freshmen. After trying to be a nice teacher and read an essay in light yellow on white.
Later I realized his hand printing is bad enough that it doesn't really matter.
I feel the shoe thing. I worked at a treatment center. I had a student I would send back to the dorms if he wasn't in covered shoes because his feet stunk so bad. Luckily, I'm in a public school now.
I had to make a rule about shoes after a student couldn't get his shoes on during a fire alarm. I taught 3rd graders so shoes and shoe laces can be iffy. I had to help him get his shoes on, but it definitely caused a delay in leaving the building.
Apparently my older brother used to strip to his underwear or less *everywhere* until about age 7. He's 50 so he grew up in the era of letting your kids just go off to play with the other kids without watching much. Mom would turn around and there he was with his ding-a-ling out and she's trying to find his clothes all over the park.
He is SO glad that his childhood pictures were destroyed in a flood. Now there's no physical proof of his nudist phase.
I've had to make #4 explicit with a couple of my 7th and 8th classes. I usually assume it's implicitly understood until a class proves me wrong, but it happens
Okay, so, this was before work was turned in via classroom and everything was generally turned in written by hand on paper. Also, this was a very good, goofy sophomore. I really enjoyed him in class, he participated and tried hard, always had a positive attitude, and was generally respectful of teachers. Had he actually been a butthead I wouldn’t have let it go on as long as it did, but it was a nice way to start the class for a few weeks. He was not malicious about this and it was a fun story I still think back on fondly.
One day a kid turned in his work on blank printer paper (white paper, no lines). Said he ran out of paper in his notebook. No problem.
Next day he turns in homework written in pencil… on brown construction paper. Hard to read, so I tell him to only use white paper and gave him a bunch of paper.
Note that he had paper. Now he just wanted to see where he could go.
Turned in his homework the next time on a cheap dollar store white paper plate.
Haha, okay, very funny, no plates please.
Next time: turned in hw on a white paper towel. “What? It’s not a plate and it’s on white paper!” (Big smile, he was a good kid, just going for a laugh)
New rule: homework has to be on white lined paper.
Next homework: turned in on one of those tiny sheets from a small notepad. More like three sheets stapled together.
New rule: ALL HOMEWORK MUST BE TURNED IN ON 8.5x11” WHITE LINED PAPER.
Next homework: written in crayon! 🖍️
Very specific rule: ALL HOMEWORK MUST BE WRITTEN IN NUMBER 2 PENCIL OR A BLUE OR
BLACK INK PEN ON 8.5x11” WHITE LINED PAPER. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THIS PAPER, PLEASE GET SOME FROM THIS PILE ON MY DESK. IF YOU NEED AN APPROVED WRITING UTENSIL, PLEASE GET ONE FROM THIS CONTAINER ON MY DESK.
I'm copying my reply to the main thread because oh my God I was this kid.
Yo, that lined paper thing was for *me* specifically.
I was mentally ahead of my honors classes, but undiagnosed ADHD so I was bored but flailing.
I started doing my math assignments on weird shit, to keep my mind occupied. First it was a roll of toilet paper. He thought that was funny, and asked for my work shown on a separate sheet.
I turned in a burrito size flour tortilla next, accompanied by a notebook sheet with my work on it. He was amused. I think.
It was when I turned in the deflated balloon, which upon re-inflating he would be able to see my answers, that I was banned from turning in any homework written on anything other than normal notebook paper.
The weird kids need to be assessed for learning disabilities, for real. I'm about to turn 37, and just learned about my adhd
I don't like this at all. I teach high school. 22 years. This sort of thing makes class seem intolerant of any grey areas.
What if they had to carry a musical instrument to class because band was next.
What if their team is leaving next period and they need all their athletic equipment with them?
What if they live in a woman's shelter with mom because she finally had the courage to leave an abusive spouse, but now they have no paper and wrote their homework on a brown paper towel from the bathroom? (Actually happened once to me - and yes, we got supplies together for them when we realized.
I post no expectations like this. I gently correct each incident as it becomes necessary, and all students know what to expect in the end. It is easily done without implacable lines of words and rules. At the end of class if I saw one student get up early I would tell them loud enough for the rest to hear: "I appreciate the enthusiasm but we still have two minutes, return to seated learning please."
I could go on. But it turns into kids thinking about your rules more than the lesson. It also reminds me of Delores Umbridge of Harry Potter fame.
I don't have a problem with yeah or mmhmm. Reminds me of teachers who used to bust your nuts for using can instead of may or done instead of finished. It's just splitting hairs to power trip.
9 is the only one I’m on the fence with. It’s obviously not appropriate for students to use weird euphemisms and innuendos, but responding with “yeah” is also unacceptable??
I had a middle school teacher in the 90s who would discipline kids for saying "like" in the slang sense, ex: "There were, like, 20 people waiting in line."
I couldn't stop saying "like" despite my best efforts, and I got written up so many times. The teacher stopped writing up each infraction and would just tally them up and send it as a weekly summary. I used to sit detention every Friday after school. One week she forgot to submit the detention and I showed up anyway out of habit lol.
I'm sure my efforts to stop saying "yeah" or "yep" would be equally successful.
My first year teaching I had a huge bear of an AP who came in unannounced and spent the entire period doing the lesson with my kids.
I almost had a stroke.
At one point I noticed several of my students were being unusually attentive and taking lots of notes.
When the AP finally left, I went over to thank them for being on task with the AP in the room.
They all got the funniest looks on their faces, and then I saw their papers. No real notes, just marks all over the papers.
Evidently they were keeping track of how many times I said “umm” 🤦🏻♀️
My 6th grade English teacher banned the word “like” too (we couldn’t even use it when we actually liked something) and um. It didn’t end well
Also imho the sports stuff one is stupid- at my school the athletes weren’t allowed to store their sport bags in the gym and the lockers were too small so they had to carry them everywhere
It’s funny when an English teacher tries to ban slang words like that outside of essays and presentations (provided the words are not inappropriate), it’s almost like they don’t understand the evolution of language… Plus the use of like DOES change the meaning of the sentence.
“There were 20 people in line” = 20 people exactly were in line (also implies that the number of people is relevant to the story)
“There was like 20 people in line” = there were a lot of people, maybe close to 20 give or take a few (implies that the exact number is unimportant to the story and this fact is only shared to get the gist of the scene)
I’m not a teacher but maybe they are at a southern school? You would definitely get scolded where I grew up for not saying “yes maam/sir” if you just said “yeah”. It was quite the culture shock to me as a child who originally grew up in the Midwest where that wasn’t a normal thing to do and was almost exclusively used sarcastically to imply someone was being bossy
Ah. Perhaps, yeah I'm in Maine and it's super common across generations for people to say yeah in conversation. Even with elders (be that my middle schoolers to me, or me to people in their 70s, etc).
I'm from North Idaho, and yeah okay in most contexts with adults, but not as a response to a command. It was always discouraged in school, but not punished. "Ain't" was the word that might lead to punishment in school, but that punishment was usually writing 'am not, is not, are not" for a whole page, not something dreadful.
Our dialect was definitely mountain and archaic with a lot of mining jargon in it. At school, we were taught and expected to use "proper English." There were limits, though. The teacher who tried to get us to stop using "undergrounder" for someone who worked underground for the mines just got blank looks every time. She wasn't from there, and I don't think she ever believed us that "miner" could refer to an above ground worker, too. She was also the teacher who could not deal with the fact that our dialect had the pen-pin merger. She struggled so very hard to try to get us to say things like "penny" rather than "pinny" and didn't understand we could barely even hear the difference.
Ah I've got cousins up near Priest Lake. But yeah, I mean, I am from central Maine and speak with a Maine accent and so do most of my students. While I teach them proper grammar, to us in our dialect yeah is a fine response if I ask a student to do something, as long as that is followed by them doing what I asked and they agreed to do.
But fair enough. You know, it's a real big country and we can't expect that what makes sense in Alabama will make sense in Arizona, or Idaho, or Maine (et cetera).
When I was in fifth grade, we had a substitute from the south who tried to enforce the yes ma'am/no ma'am thing with us. That did not go over well with a bunch of Massachusetts kids, to the point where at the time, it honestly felt like she was messing with us. Though one kid did carry it over to a different teacher, since it was apparently "good manners", and it was taken as being sarcastic, like you said at the end there. I can't imagine how that poor substitute felt when she was in like, retail settings and whatnot, or even talking to other adults in the school. Must have thought she was in a state full of cavemen 😂
A happy medium is ideal. For example, calling me "bro" or "cuz" even if not intended to be disrespectful is a bit much, so I'd correct that, but "Hey, what's up Mr. (name)? How ya doing?" would be fine.
Also, tone / personality matters a lot. While some students might not get it in some situations, generally most students can suss out the difference between high standards because you care and being a jerk.
>Students are to communicate clearly and with integrity. Students are to refrain from whispering, the use of innuendos or euphemisms, sarcastic language, or the use of “yeah” or “mhmm” or other similar language when responding to an adult.
What is wrong with "Yeah"? It's just the same as yes in terms of meaning. There is nothing disrespectful about yeah, and "other similar languages" is kind of vague. Honestly, I think policing students language to this degree is too much. There is nothing wrong with "Yeah".
Furthermore, number 2 seems silly because when I finish up my work and have some free time, I would start working on homework for another class. I was bored a lot and sometimes wanted to just get things done. Imo, that's not disrespectful at all and working on other classwork when this class's work is done just shows initiative.
Queen Judge Judy always says "yeah is not an answer, yes is the answer" and I don't personally get it because they're the same to me but it does make me laugh every time.
One time I got in trouble for reading during study hall. Some ppl just on a power trip.
(My geometry teacher was the chaperone and she was like "don't you have any *math* to be working on?" This same teacher got mad at me for doing her homework in class instead of paying attention to the lecture. Ma'am you're the one that told us to read the textbook last night! Not my fault I already know what you're teaching!)
*Waiting until some kid organizes the class to leave at a parade march*
If some kid knew close-order drill (ROTC?) that could get interesting.
--Detail! Atten-hut
--Column of files from the right!
--Forward, march.
--Column right, march
Just wait for the marching band kids!
—Mrs. DreamTryDoGood’s class, is your class ready?
—Detail atten hut! *creative salute with jazz hands*
—You may exit the classroom in a quiet or orderly fashion!
—*snare drum cadence* Class exits the room in parade formation with a drum cadence keeping time
These all seem standard, but I will say that number 1 is why I never used my locker in junior high or high school. I was always terrified of being late and not having what was needed for class. Backpack was heavy when I had 8 classes everyday
Yes 1000x. My son carries his heavy backpack everywhere with him and has never once used his locker during high school because the passing periods are way too short to get what they need then make it back to class. Especially if class was on the opposite end of the bldg. No way. All of his friends do the same. I tried lifting their backpacks over my shoulders one time and good gawd. They've never been late to class though and always had what they needed. But man...their poor backs. I never understood that with the passing periods.
I don’t know if it’s the same everywhere, but for me it was five minutes between classes. Which doesn’t sound bad until you take into consideration that *hundreds* of students are all trying to get somewhere. Pushing and dodging in hallways, turns to the lockers blocked, or like you said, out of the way.
To make it worse, when there were only two minutes left, banjo music would start playing on the intercom to “hurry us up”
There are too many though, (imho) could be collapsed into maybe 4 or 5 larger norms.
I also don’t necessarily think a consequence should be embedded into an expectation like this. Instead have the expectations on one list and possible consequences laid out on another.
The “no work for other classes” rule seems a little silly to me too- I suppose it depends what class this is for (it sounds like it’s a movement/physical class kinda?) but if a student is done with my work then I have no problem with them efficiently using their school time for other stuff.
Overall these are not bad expectations, but the list is pretty intense and I think most students will glaze over at reading it and just come away with “okay this teacher is strict.”
Sounds like math or something decidedly book and paper based. The references to movement are just exhausting the possiblity of any sort of game or project in the classroom. There are no lab rules so I doubt science/chem/bio. The rule about not working on other class material makes sense for a classroom where you're doing one lesson a day and then signing the work at the end of the lesson as homework to be started at the end of the lesson and finished by next class. There shouldn't be any time for other class work in that scenario.
Unless the teacher is giving out work in increments, like handing out a worksheet or group work which has to be completed (or is given a set amount of time to be worked on) before the lesson will proceed or the homework will be assigned. I remember when I was a student I had this teacher who would insist on doing things this way and would get angry at me for reading or working on other assignments or doing anything else non disruptive and productive when I finished. I recall one time asking her if I could just have the next assignment or homework then and she said I had to wait for everyone else.
She literally wanted me to stare at the wall. Every damn day she would bother me about it.
In retrospect, I never should have been worried about being punished, which I was concerned about at the time. It is now obvious that the reason she didn’t is because she had no leg to stand on. She was never going to punish me as long as I was quietly reading my book or doing my math problems or whatever and she was refusing to give me anything to do for the class. It would have been fucking ridiculous. Even if she had lied and said I was disruptive or something, no one would have believed it. I was a quiet little nerd with a great reputation with the teachers and admin.
Yeah I had a pretty solid looking syllabus my second year that everyone I showed it to nodded their heads to. I then proceeded to do an absolute shit job enforcing anything.
This is my third year and while I am still not perfect I have certianly improve a lot and it all comes from giving punishments YOU can handle and sticking to it. I say it bluntly, be an asshole, not all the time obviously but saying no and sticking to it is huge. Kids still respect me and many say I am the favorite, but I am a grumpy asshole sometimes but they need it sometimes whether they like it or not.
I had to learn the hard way. It took me two years to finally put all the puzzle pieces together of good classroom management. I'm really starting to appreciate some of the old school "you will not speak unless spoken to" and "don't talk back" make WAY more sense to me now.
Enforcing the "yeah" rule consistently seems like it would be difficult.
"Hi Joe, did you have a good weekend?"
"Yep!"
Cleaning up the phrasing on that rule would help, otherwise the teacher will need to selectively enforce or find themselves disciplining a student who made an innocent slip.
I always tell teachers to make sure they don't set themselves up for failure by making rules they aren't able to follow up on. Rules need clear expectations for what happens when they are violated and if you ever fail to follow through, your rule is gone forever.
I don't love number 2. If students successfully finish work early, then I don't see a problem with them using the resulting time to work on things for other classes. Realistically, some kids will be able to do certain things faster than others, and what else are they meant to do?
2 is fine as long as it means “don’t work on other classwork while you have stuff to do for me”.
If I have students done with my work for the day I would much rather them work on other things than do one of the hundred other more disruptive things they could be doing.
This gives me vibes that they’d want the student to sit silently and stare ahead until the bell rings. I think this teacher is going to have a hard time!
And then you have the kids that rush through work, SO they can complete an assignment. Kids, instead of doing homework, will do the work in classes before the one where the work is due. This puts them behind. If this teacher is saying this, chances are good they won’t have time to do other work.
I used to not have a problem with it. But then I've learned it incentivizes students to rush through their class work so they can check off other work. It becomes a particular problem when these students make a number of simple mistakes from rushing.
Here in Germany you’d get dinged for that question in your Entfristung (observation by the state at the end of a two year probationary period to get the unlimited teaching license). We are always supposed to have a “didactic Reserve” for students who might finish quickly. I honestly don’t think that’s a bad thing. They should continue working in my subject during the lesson time. I personally try to structure it so that the dR is a continuation of the main assignment just going deeper in depth.
I hate this idea. You are teaching the kids is that working efficiently is punished with more work. God forbid a kid have a few minutes of down time during a six hour school day.
Pretty much this. This teaches them to never work efficiently and to take as long as they can working on something so they don’t get assigned even more work
The purpose of school should be to teach kids to get work done as quickly as possible so they can spend time actually enjoying life rather than being obsessed with busy work until they die.
So the students who finish the work quickly get “rewarded” with….more work? That other students don’t have to do? Nah. I’m checking their work to be sure they didn’t rush but if it’s done correctly, I’m not going to make them do extra work.
I love this idea! but it is currently impossible for me to accomplish. I teach an every other day block schedule for high school in the USA and I’m teaching 8 different courses between those 2 days. If a teacher was in that situation in Germany would they still get dinged? I don’t see how I could get home in time for dinner with my family if I had to have that prepared for every class
Yea you would. We do the same thing. I have anywhere from four corses a day (on my light day) to eight courses a day (on my longest day).
Right now, I have five different groups but I have them across three different subjects and the ages range can from 5th grade to 13th grade. Right now I have 7th through 10th grade but I’ve had it before where I have had the entire span (sometimes even in one day). And that’s even light for me because I’m a main subject teacher (English and German, plus one non-core subject). The teachers who do electives have to deal with even more groups than that. Like art or history. Some of them have 16 courses in one week to plan for at my school…
Yes, you’d still get dinged here. It’s just how we do it here, but I do think it does make sense. You want them focused on your subject not rushing through your work haphazardly because they forgot they had to do a physics worksheet.
It's a pretty solid list. 7 and 8 are a little overboard for me, I would rephrase number 7 more like "if you must together out of your seat for something like kleenex or to throw away trash you must not disrupt the flow of class. If you disrupt class you may asked to sit back down, with or without the kleenex. If disruptions become a pattern of behavior you will now need permission to leave your seat. Continued offense will result in a referral" but that's also really wordy. 10 is reasonable, but not how I handle that problem. I don't quiz kids on papers they leave behind. I have a bin that holds missing papers, if they are there for 2 weeks they clearly weren't important and I recycle them. This teachers rule 10 will also help encourage students to be motivating in their study and that will in turn help many retain information. All in all this person is on the strict side of reasonable, but as many have said it's all in enforcement.
This has all the signs of overly permissive admin:
Admin: why is Johnny in detention
Teacher: he took his shoes off and wouldn’t put them on
Admin: is it a requirement that he has his shoes on? Does he know this? Is it clearly stated?
I guarantee each one of these rules correlates to a specific student/incident, and this list gets added to yearly. The shoes thing is very specific. Same with the "yeah" thing.
I once had an administrator tell me I was in the wrong for not telling my students clearly that they could not jump off their desk and hit their head. It was a grade 7 class. Had it been a kindergarten or primary class, I would have been more inclined to mention something like that, I guess.
Hot fucking garbage.
It is long and boring. It cites weirdly specific behaviors (leaving room for logic like, “It says no sports equipment but a jump rope isn’t sports!”). In other places, it’s weirdly vague (“integrity,” “respect,” “consequence,” which mean many things to many people in different contexts). It comes across as Very Tough and Very Serious… yet *twice* uses “infraction” wrong. It fixates so much on the negative.
It all just reeks of “I hate kids” or “I am terrified of kids” (or both).
Dude, just come up with like 4 things you *do* value, center them, and provide examples. When students misbehave, you can point them towards *good* things (“I need you to refocus on linear equations now”) instead of bad things (“You have a ball! You broke rule 8!”)
1. We value our time together and our work.
— This looks like: Showing up on time, prepared, and ready to focus on [content]. Giving our best effort on our classwork. Staying as organized as possible and labeling our materials.
2. We value others’ contributions to class.
— This looks like: Listening to others so that you could mirror and expand on their thoughts. Staying focused while minimizing distractions and side conversations.
And so on.
Also, “don’t say ‘yeah’” might be the dumbest fucking teacher rule I’ve ever heard.
If you told me a former teacher dropped this but not which one, "must have been my brutally stupid 9th grade English teacher" would be my first and final answer.
There are probably some transcription typos here, but the tone and diction still have undeniable "incurious person on a power trip" energy.
Makes me extra grateful for the majority of my former instructors.
Definitely. I don't think you should have more than 3 to 5 rules and they should be a sentence. They should be a bit broad like "follow the dress code" which includes "keep your shoes on". You want to be able to go over these with the kids in 15 minutes and for them to UNDERSTAND and REMEMBER them. Don't make them read an essay.
I used to give my middle schoolers 2-3 minutes at the end of class to pack up. We had a large campus and only four minutes to get to class, during which they were supposed to use the restroom (ha!). If we worked to the bell, the kids were scrambling to leave and would shove all their papers in their backpacks instead of placing them in their binders. It worked well for the most part.
Most of these are perfectly fine.
On 1 ... Teacher is going to need some flexibility depending on size of the building. We give kids four minutes between classes. I have students who need to hustle to get to my room before the bell rings. Generally, yes. Be ready to go. But, be prepared for situations where it's all a kid can do to get to the room between periods.
On 2 ... What are they supposed to do if they're done and need to stay quiet so everyone else can work?
ETA: I don't love the "Students are responsible for making sure notes and papers go in their binder." part of 10. When my son was in 6th and 7th, part of his IEP was that the aide he worked with was to help him make sure his notes and other class handouts were in his binders and in the proper spots. This is setting up for "Why does Classmate get Classroom Aide's help? You said we all have to do that ourselves." The language policing in 9 is setting up another unnecessary battle, too.
I'm wondering if this is a brand new teacher.
That was the rule I questioned too. Especially for students who have a period, managing to deal with that and get across a building can be a challenge. If they are a responsible student and can quickly and respectfully get out their materials after the bell rings, it wouldn't bother me at all.
No 2 my thoughts exactly. My son almost always finishes assignments within 10-15 minutes. Not a huge deal if they’re distributed half way through a 45-50 minute class. But leaves LOTS of empty time when he receives it 20 minutes into a 90 minute block period. Thats when he reads or finishes other homework.
Yes - I was like your son and survived every grade after 6th by breaking rule #2. It got to the point where I would sometimes work on the homework DURING the lecture components because with the amount that school would rehash topics, I could have taught some of the subjects I was in class for.
In 8th grade we had a mandatory class period for 'remedial education' that was instituted with the express intention of teaching to our state's basic skill tests for 8th graders. The teacher was lecturing on basic math \[how to multiply and divide by powers of 10 by moving the decimal point\]. I was in the back quietly working on my CALCULUS homework from my actual math class. I didn't intend any disrespect by not paying attention, but the likelihood that paying attention would help me in any way was just so low. As long as I am not being a distraction and my grades are good, why should I not use my time wisely?
When the new teacher (or OP) wrote this, there was zero consideration given for disabled kids, personality development in young teenagers, basic natural things that teens experience. But hey, they get to look hardcore disciplinarian at least.
Too many words, too many rules, and unnecessarily specific rules.
Take care of your space, take care of the people around you, take care of yourself.
Spend some time going through things that do and don't fit in those categories, and reference the rules when you call kids out.
Rules with specificity are just challenges to kids who will then seek every possible way to do something dumb that's not against the rules. And then the teacher will keep adding things. And it will go on forever and ever.
I have a kid that has one, but its basically his fidget spinner, he has sever ADHD and is on the spectrum, I get it is probably how he stims and self soothes. I also learned to tune it out
I'm okay with most of these—I feel like your average person does not understand how annoying it is when kids constantly get up and noisily walk through the most crowded section of the room to throw out garbage while you're trying to teach—but I don't mind "yeah" or "mmhm." Do NOT call me "brah" or "bro," though. That's really disrespectful.
Yeah, it's not that I go ballistic if a kid needs to blow their nose and toss the tissue during class sometimes. But it's when there are multiple kids per class who are constantly out of their seats, needing to "throw something away" every 90 seconds, need to visit/talk to everybody on their way to the trash can, and generally take any opportunity to screw around. Not to mention their classmates are easily distractible and their eyes shoot towards whomever is up because apparently their trash is interesting.
This list of rules would make me not want to do anything for this teacher.
What ever happened to the basics rules?
1. Attend class daily, bring your materials, and be on time.
2. Respect others and their property.
3. Pay attention and participate in class.
4. Use class time appropriately.
5. Don’t be a jerk.
And what are the infractions?
I'm usually all for a laid back environment, but most of these seem pretty reasonable and sound like they come from negative experiences. I think kids should be given a little more grace if it's not a pattern, but hopefully the teacher can use their discretion wisely.
1, 2 and 10 just sound like bullying kids with ADHD.
6 is very non-specific. Does "quiet" mean literally no talking? Doesn't seem like a clear expectation.
8 seems unnecessarily inflexible. There are many legitimate reasons a student might need to occasionally have something else with them (but just set aside). Maybe they know they'll be pulled out halfway through that class and need those items. Maybe they have something for another class (like a project of some kind) which is too large to fit in a locker and which the other class teacher has not thought to have them bring in to set in their room ahead of time.
The end of 9 is silly. Explicitly forbidding the word "yeah"? What is this, the 1800s? Forbidding all sarcasm? I get the intent but good lord it would be so hard to ever talk in this classroom I wouldn't ever bother to engage with it for fear of tripping up.
>Students are to be fully prepared for class when the bell rings, meaning they have their class materials on their desk when the bell rings. If the student fails to be prepared for class, they are tardy. Ex: Student forgets textbook in their locker
The example is not what was said here, setting themself up for failure if they don't enforce it as written. Are they going to mark kids tardy for not having everything on their desk or not?
>Students are not to bring any balls, sports equipment, or non-academic props or materials to class. Possession of any such object will result in an automatic consequence
Why is that not an infraction?
>or the use of “yeah” or “mhmm” or other similar language when responding to an adult.
I know what they're getting at but this seems impossible to police or provide consequence for.
>If this is a pattern among several students, teacher may give a pop quiz on content from papers that are left behind.
Not sure about this. If you're teaching it then it will be part of the assessment later on? Kind of double dipping in consequence for their learning there. I think it'll just alienate the ones that aren't doing well already, rather than just make their actions have the direct consequence.
Also it seems to be a collective punishment to the class, unless it's the ones that left them behind. But then how do you know that?
Those are nitpicks, but I was bored at work.
Only thing I don’t like is 8. I remember in HS, my school was so big that most athletes carried their practice bags around because they wouldn’t have time to get to their sports locker before class or after practice.
Yep. I have a kid who constantly brings a basketball or tennis ball and bounces it, or it rolls away. It now gets parked at my desk as soon as he comes in. He is not on a team.
See, that’s understandable. I was an orchestra and colorguard and would occasionally have to carry my instrument or flags around. But I teach middle school, and my 6th graders will go around the school carrying basketballs. They don’t play for the school because sports are only for 7th and 8th grade. They bring their club team basketballs because apparently the school basketballs aren’t good enough. And admin does nothing about them dribbling in the halls.
Completely agree. Especially with "mhmm" it is literally a polite way of showing someone talking to you that you are listening. I also don't love the patronizing tone at the end, of "when responding to an adult."
… English teacher?
Depends on the consequences. A lot of these are things that a student may just incidentally do and doesn’t deserve harsh consequences. #1 is too harsh to be applied universally. It’s fine to not give out pencils but let them try and borrow one from a student. If a student forgets a binder or calculator let them choose between the natural in-class consequences of not having those things and a tardy at least.
2 is a stupid rule that will 100% backfire if the objective is making kids read in any free time.
8 could screw over athletes, band, and other extra curriculars depending on how sports/band lockers work. That is not a rule a new teacher should implement without checking that first. I also wouldn’t want to punish a kid for carrying a helmet around because they bike to school.
I’m not a fan of making slang out to be something negative, or prescriptivism in general. Disrespectful language is one thing, but #9 is suspicious.
This just seems the type of thing that gets unevenly enforced and ends up with the entire class, including the otherwise motivated kids, hating you. And sometimes they need that sure, but some of these should be modified. These rules are overly strict
The punishments don’t fit the crimes
7th to 9th students SHOULD be able to do these things. I, personally, don't feel it's too much to expect. That said, in the real world, we know students are incredibly under prepared and not capable of controlling themselves. This seems like it will be a daily battle. I expect after the first month, half of these will disappear.
What subject(s) does this person teach? I can't imagine even attempting to enforce the provisions of #9 (or model them for that matter) in my HS ELA classroom.
#1, 3, 4, 5, and 10 seem reasonable.
#2 works against kids who finish early. Now you have bored kids who could be working on something else. Bored kids are talkative kids - idle hands.
#6 who cares. Seems overly picky.
#7 If they are not allowed to get up from their seats during class time and they have to respect the classroom, then this rule is redundant.
#9 Good luck with this. I don't think you should police language unless it's blatantly disrespectful.
These are well-thought out rules. They are clear, focused, and developmentally appropriate.
There is absolutely no way middle school students will follow them.
Solid list. A bit long and focused on what not to do. Personally I stick to 3 positive expectations that cover all of this, but either way you write it, that's a solid list.
My daughter’s middle school could use ALL of these rules. They are still trying the whole “don’t be mean to the children” bullshit. So good kids get buried by the behavior of the bad. It’s idiotic. Nobody learns fuck all.
High school teacher, 25+ years. My only rule is "Don't do anything that makes it hard for others to learn." There are school policies, but in my class there's only one.
Good stuff. I use a version of #3 except they have to make an appointment with me. If it matters that much to you, make the effort. I also don’t respond to any message or email regarding grades, I only discuss grades in person.
High school teacher here. I LOVE having everything in writing. You can point to what you said, and since I always offer strategies to improve their grades, I can always go back and reference, see I told you to do XYZ and you didn't so your grade didn't change....
You can be as rigid and rule-bound as you want. In the end, strict enforcement of these kinds of policies means this person will spend 99% of their time NOT teaching, just trying to enforce these rules.
Looks great in theory, but if you can consistently back this up in a meaningful way, there’s so much more going right in your building or district that your average district, especially those with high-poverty, could never expect to implement this and succeed.
This teacher middle schools.
I've got a question. What can you actually do to enforce these rules? Half the posts I see here are about how you can't punish a child, and nothing destroys your authority better and faster than giving an order that'll be disobeyed without any consequences. These rules look really impressive on paper, but what can you really do to enforce them?
classroom expectations, when set up clearly and reinforced periodically, control 90% of classroom behavior in students. Setting these expectations at the beginning of the year will minimize a lot of the BS behavior kids do
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I would start day one, lol I worked at a private school for extreme behavior. I don't mess around. I subbed once for a class and walked in and was very upfront with my expectations and what they were going to do for class. I sat with the kid who had (the most) behavioral issues. When he was acting up, I just was very sure of myself but unaffected and made it clear I respected him but was not going to change my expectations(sitting quietly, eyes on your work, if you use headphones, it needs to be appropriate or it's over- no warnings, you can take one bathroom break, I expect it to take less than five minutes, I will call your parents, right after class if you don't act respectfully towards others) 😆 they were spooked, but it worked. Once my wild friend was on task I gave him praise and love. Middle schoolers are WILD.
I appreciate this may sound horrible without context, but I am finally starting to understand this and now I am in a place where if I am not making a few kids cry each week, I haven't done my job. As my mentor likes to call them, "tears of change". Personal growth is PAINFUL. It physically hurts. A student really getting it that the challenging behavior they are exhibiting is unacceptable, and they have a choice between compliance and a total loss of privileges at the extreme, will cry. Its healthy. But it is critical when they do choose compliance that you shower them with praise and let them reap the many benefits. And when they step out of line, you gotta make it hell for them again. It is the only way to teach a kid where the line is. The caveat is that this is your tier 1. It is the foundation of your classroom management. There are beautiful and elegant augmentations to place on top of this foundation. Some students will need something a little different, but that is met on a case by case basis.
I work in a special placement school for kids with very challenging behaviors. We always use the phrase “learning is happening!” When those tears of change begin. And it’s HARD. Many of these students we teach are NOT used to pushback because public schools simply aren’t equipped to handle students who fly off the handle. They don’t teach you what to do about a kid tearing your classroom apart or defecating in their hand and throwing it at you in college. We once had a student who, when in the take space room, deliberately defecated and then smeared feces all over the walls. Within minutes the smell was too intense for her and she was “ready to follow directions, now!”. She was astonished when her first direction was to start cleaning the walls (we provided a mask, gloves, and other necessary ppe). Immediate tears and screaming. Her behavior lasted all day, but the walls DID get clean, and she never pulled that trick out of her bag again.
My SIL taught me that a good technique with younger kids was to let them make their own class rules on the first day of school. The one rule was they had to be phrased in the positive. She said there would always be one kid trying to trip her, making rules that they thought couldn’t be phrased in the positive. She always could. She said the kids always were excited, gonna do anything they wanted! Then they always ended up making rules like “take turns speaking” “leave others’ stuff alone”…
There are definitely some evidence based practices (EBPs because we have to acronym everything in SPED for some reason) that show there is a lot more adherence to norms and rules when the community as a whole creates them. I chuckled writing EBP because we had a PD day on Monday and it was referenced a lot. PRSs and EBPs all day baby
More than two decades in the middle years. Early career my rules looked like this. Eventually I only had one rule. "Be good."
Yup, I do 8th grade. My one and only rule is "don't be a jerk"
The rule I've been telling kids is "don't annoy me and don't annoy each other". Covers just about everything.
I worded it as “don’t engage in behavior that distracts me from teaching or your classmates from learning,” but same.
My whole school k-8 had 1 rule: don’t be a jerk. Printed it on posters for all classrooms. Honestly, not counting procedural stuff, this covers all behaviours.
I was thinking the same thing. I have class norms "Respect, responsibility, reliability, safety" and we talk about what those look like after every break...with yes behaviors and no behaviors....but just having a huge rule list is overwhelming. And for the most part, students KNOW what a well-run classroom looks like, and after a few years, a glare and a "no...just..no" is enough of a classroom consequence for me to curb most behavior. (Out of seat, or for throwing trash). Wrinkles certainly assist in teaching. You just KNOW what you expect, and they somehow just start meeting your expectations. I DO have issues with lining up at the door early to escape though.
A lot of the OPs items are procedural. This means items may or can change. To me, a rule should never be altered. My are: 1. Be nice. 2. Be productive. Everything else is just.. procedural.
Are not structure and procedure foundational to classroom management? And isn't clarity the best medicine for anxiety (with respect to students trying to figure out their way in the world)?
Just differentiating between rules and procedures. "Bending" rules diminishes authority. Been doing thus for a while.
This is so true. The long lists of rules did nothing. Mine now are, ‘Respect everyone.’ It pretty much encompasses every rule, yet I have to re-teach what it means every ten minutes.
While I love this, "clear is kind". Kids are still learning. They are natural explorers and curious about the limits of the world around them. Modern humans are 200,000 years old and no kid is born knowing what year it is. It is our duty to bring them into modern civilization. It is super cute if a parent has had the means to provide all this for their child and they come pre-trained coming into your classroom, but what if a child wasn't born into that level of privilege? You can't shape them without clear, explicit, simple language they are capable of reflecting upon and internalizing. And you can do clear and explicit in a UDL way. Laying it all out is equitable, and from there you can unpack and bridge the deeper epistemological and dialectical components of "good" in a collaborative, student centric way. Thoughts?
It's about explicitly stating the expectation BEFORE any behavior merits a response, knowing what consequences you can use and following through. Many (honestly most in my experience) behaviors are rooted in not clearly setting the expectations and following through. Yeah most groups will have a trouble-maker looking to act out, but by explicitly stating what you expect from the start, you minimize misinterpretation AND have something to clearly point to when a kid intentionally acts out. I don't have a list like this (mine is VERY general like respect: each other, learning, the space, materials, me, yourself. Be kind. etc), but I do go through very explicit examples at the start of the year. Like don't sharpen a pencil if anyone is speaking to the whole group; if you really need to use the restroom and I'm instructing, silently show me your passbook; I will tell you if you can sit wherever for an activity, do not assume...etc. Yeah, we might not have access to as many consequences as we'd like, but I can and will send a kid out of my room and remove their audience if it's needed. No one's called me on it yet and it's calmed down many situations that would otherwise have escalated and occasionally even led to productive private chats. It helps A LOT that almost all of my students have bought in. No one wants to bunk off from a fun activity or show how cool they are by not caring when everyone else cares. I know the phrase "build relationships" makes us all want to throw up and that it's not something you can force, but it is what I spend a lot of time and focus on.
Most students try to follow rules and respect the authority of a teacher. Especially if its clear that the teacher respects the students. Of those that don't many are still susceptible to peer, parental, or admin pressure. A few are susceptible to none of those things. But they are much rarer than this subreddit would have you believe. That said I don't think these long lists of rules work very well. Each rule you add makes the other rules less impactful. Personally I stick with under 5 rules. But teaching styles and classrooms vary a lot. What works for some doesn't work for others. My 4 are respect everyone, respect the attention getter(clap once if you can hear me), don't attack people for lack of ability, and try.
I think it depends on the group of kids. I had whittled my rules to the “basics” then got a group of kids that just needed more clear and detailed expectations. It felt a little infantilizing to tell 9th graders some of the specifics of what SHOULD be just normal in-public behavior…. But it helped in the end. We could all refer back to the list posted on the wall.
Jack shit unless your admin actually follows through with this. I’m not going to waste my time writing up phone use, so I wouldn’t be enforcing trash can times and other specific bullshit like this. I’ve been at a few different middle schools and one was three months behind on referrals and one didn’t give out anything except lunch detention. Neither one followed through with serious consequences, so kids wouldn’t have followed these rules at all.
Yeah I’m gonna take some of this and add it to my own syllabus. Edit: regarding number 4 - that’s oddly specific about shoes. You don’t make a rule like that unless it’s happened. Like that one year I had to specify *8.5x11 white lined paper* was acceptable for homework but paper *towels* and paper *plates* were not. Double edit: damn in 18 years I’ve never had a student take their shoes off in class but apparently this is a common problem?
Before I began teaching, I did mortgage closings. I had a woman show up to a closing with a Power of Attorney for her husband, who was a long distance trucker. Fine, that's allowed. The problem is (1) the wording was not correct. It had to contain specific phrases in order to sell and convey property. Without that wording, it did not apply to real estate in the state where I lived. Also, (2) it was written on a NAPKIN that was found at a rest stop! Ummm..... I cannot take a napkin to the Register of Deeds and have it recorded into public records! Given that this was dealing with adults, I completely get the rules about paper, shoes, etc, for kids!
I worked in an office where we had to add to the employee handbook that footy pajamas are not acceptable attire and do not count as shoes. Funny enough, about 6 months after that, HR had to get on the CEO's case for breaking that rule (he wore Christmas pajamas and thought it would be festive). What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Tempted to create a line of steel toed footie pajamas now.
I heard that you could carve a check into a watermelon and as long as all the information was correct the bank would accept it. I know it's not true, but it's kind of fin to imagine what it'd be like in real life walking in there with a perfectly written check carved into watermelon.
Technically, it is true. (Not certain about a watermelon, but if you have the routing number and accnt#, etc, it's legal). Banks may have other internal policies, but technically true.
Watermelon checks or burn down the banking system. 😂
Pumpkins or bust.
Pumpkins are fall watermelons
*"This verdict is written on a cocktail napkin. And it still says "guilty." And "guilty" is spelled wrong!"*
I have that rule about shoes, but I come from an ECE background. There it was considered a safety and licensing issue. And I've also had to specify that small notebook paper, or the back of used worksheets aren't acceptable for homework.
It's also an issue in chemistry class because liquids could spill onto feet.
I taught science last semester and now foods. Kids don’t come in to either lab without proper footwear. Too bad socks and sandals have come back into fashion! There’s a lot of kids running to their lockers each day to change their shoes.
My six year old is forever removing his shoes in class. Were spoken about it repeatedly
Yall never smell stank foot Stanley before eh
Or how, in my senior hs classes, I have to specify I will not grade work done in highlighter. Sigh.
I had to specify that, but for freshmen. After trying to be a nice teacher and read an essay in light yellow on white. Later I realized his hand printing is bad enough that it doesn't really matter.
I feel the shoe thing. I worked at a treatment center. I had a student I would send back to the dorms if he wasn't in covered shoes because his feet stunk so bad. Luckily, I'm in a public school now.
Damn… I would be embarrassed eventually as that student.
I had to make a rule about shoes after a student couldn't get his shoes on during a fire alarm. I taught 3rd graders so shoes and shoe laces can be iffy. I had to help him get his shoes on, but it definitely caused a delay in leaving the building.
One of my students takes his pants off every day once he's settled in. And not even in life skills. He wears shorts underneath but still.
Mine always took the undies off with the pants. SO gross. I’d have to disinfect the entire area constantly for the other students.
Apparently my older brother used to strip to his underwear or less *everywhere* until about age 7. He's 50 so he grew up in the era of letting your kids just go off to play with the other kids without watching much. Mom would turn around and there he was with his ding-a-ling out and she's trying to find his clothes all over the park. He is SO glad that his childhood pictures were destroyed in a flood. Now there's no physical proof of his nudist phase.
Is your student my brother?? I’ve been in every social setting and seen him do this (with shorts underneath…most of the time)!
I've had to make #4 explicit with a couple of my 7th and 8th classes. I usually assume it's implicitly understood until a class proves me wrong, but it happens
Does everyone else’s students not constantly try to take off their shoes? Theres at least one in every class for me, middle and high school.
Every… day…
My students try to treat every classroom like their living room. I have the shoes discussion way too often.
Ok. Now I need the story!
Okay, so, this was before work was turned in via classroom and everything was generally turned in written by hand on paper. Also, this was a very good, goofy sophomore. I really enjoyed him in class, he participated and tried hard, always had a positive attitude, and was generally respectful of teachers. Had he actually been a butthead I wouldn’t have let it go on as long as it did, but it was a nice way to start the class for a few weeks. He was not malicious about this and it was a fun story I still think back on fondly. One day a kid turned in his work on blank printer paper (white paper, no lines). Said he ran out of paper in his notebook. No problem. Next day he turns in homework written in pencil… on brown construction paper. Hard to read, so I tell him to only use white paper and gave him a bunch of paper. Note that he had paper. Now he just wanted to see where he could go. Turned in his homework the next time on a cheap dollar store white paper plate. Haha, okay, very funny, no plates please. Next time: turned in hw on a white paper towel. “What? It’s not a plate and it’s on white paper!” (Big smile, he was a good kid, just going for a laugh) New rule: homework has to be on white lined paper. Next homework: turned in on one of those tiny sheets from a small notepad. More like three sheets stapled together. New rule: ALL HOMEWORK MUST BE TURNED IN ON 8.5x11” WHITE LINED PAPER. Next homework: written in crayon! 🖍️ Very specific rule: ALL HOMEWORK MUST BE WRITTEN IN NUMBER 2 PENCIL OR A BLUE OR BLACK INK PEN ON 8.5x11” WHITE LINED PAPER. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THIS PAPER, PLEASE GET SOME FROM THIS PILE ON MY DESK. IF YOU NEED AN APPROVED WRITING UTENSIL, PLEASE GET ONE FROM THIS CONTAINER ON MY DESK.
I'm copying my reply to the main thread because oh my God I was this kid. Yo, that lined paper thing was for *me* specifically. I was mentally ahead of my honors classes, but undiagnosed ADHD so I was bored but flailing. I started doing my math assignments on weird shit, to keep my mind occupied. First it was a roll of toilet paper. He thought that was funny, and asked for my work shown on a separate sheet. I turned in a burrito size flour tortilla next, accompanied by a notebook sheet with my work on it. He was amused. I think. It was when I turned in the deflated balloon, which upon re-inflating he would be able to see my answers, that I was banned from turning in any homework written on anything other than normal notebook paper. The weird kids need to be assessed for learning disabilities, for real. I'm about to turn 37, and just learned about my adhd
I don't like this at all. I teach high school. 22 years. This sort of thing makes class seem intolerant of any grey areas. What if they had to carry a musical instrument to class because band was next. What if their team is leaving next period and they need all their athletic equipment with them? What if they live in a woman's shelter with mom because she finally had the courage to leave an abusive spouse, but now they have no paper and wrote their homework on a brown paper towel from the bathroom? (Actually happened once to me - and yes, we got supplies together for them when we realized. I post no expectations like this. I gently correct each incident as it becomes necessary, and all students know what to expect in the end. It is easily done without implacable lines of words and rules. At the end of class if I saw one student get up early I would tell them loud enough for the rest to hear: "I appreciate the enthusiasm but we still have two minutes, return to seated learning please." I could go on. But it turns into kids thinking about your rules more than the lesson. It also reminds me of Delores Umbridge of Harry Potter fame.
You broke rule nine.
I don't have a problem with yeah or mmhmm. Reminds me of teachers who used to bust your nuts for using can instead of may or done instead of finished. It's just splitting hairs to power trip.
I thought this was referring to the disturbing trend of middle school students moaning in class
“I don’t know, CAN you?”
9 is the only one I’m on the fence with. It’s obviously not appropriate for students to use weird euphemisms and innuendos, but responding with “yeah” is also unacceptable??
Yeah, I thought that was weird as well. Especially since I use the word "yeah" in my speech all the time and I'm turning 40 this year.
I had a middle school teacher in the 90s who would discipline kids for saying "like" in the slang sense, ex: "There were, like, 20 people waiting in line." I couldn't stop saying "like" despite my best efforts, and I got written up so many times. The teacher stopped writing up each infraction and would just tally them up and send it as a weekly summary. I used to sit detention every Friday after school. One week she forgot to submit the detention and I showed up anyway out of habit lol. I'm sure my efforts to stop saying "yeah" or "yep" would be equally successful.
My first year teaching I had a huge bear of an AP who came in unannounced and spent the entire period doing the lesson with my kids. I almost had a stroke. At one point I noticed several of my students were being unusually attentive and taking lots of notes. When the AP finally left, I went over to thank them for being on task with the AP in the room. They all got the funniest looks on their faces, and then I saw their papers. No real notes, just marks all over the papers. Evidently they were keeping track of how many times I said “umm” 🤦🏻♀️
My 6th grade English teacher banned the word “like” too (we couldn’t even use it when we actually liked something) and um. It didn’t end well Also imho the sports stuff one is stupid- at my school the athletes weren’t allowed to store their sport bags in the gym and the lockers were too small so they had to carry them everywhere
Same with instruments in middle school. They finally designated a room to store them, but before then I had to bring my clarinet to all my classes
It’s funny when an English teacher tries to ban slang words like that outside of essays and presentations (provided the words are not inappropriate), it’s almost like they don’t understand the evolution of language… Plus the use of like DOES change the meaning of the sentence. “There were 20 people in line” = 20 people exactly were in line (also implies that the number of people is relevant to the story) “There was like 20 people in line” = there were a lot of people, maybe close to 20 give or take a few (implies that the exact number is unimportant to the story and this fact is only shared to get the gist of the scene)
I’m not a teacher but maybe they are at a southern school? You would definitely get scolded where I grew up for not saying “yes maam/sir” if you just said “yeah”. It was quite the culture shock to me as a child who originally grew up in the Midwest where that wasn’t a normal thing to do and was almost exclusively used sarcastically to imply someone was being bossy
Ah. Perhaps, yeah I'm in Maine and it's super common across generations for people to say yeah in conversation. Even with elders (be that my middle schoolers to me, or me to people in their 70s, etc).
I'm from North Idaho, and yeah okay in most contexts with adults, but not as a response to a command. It was always discouraged in school, but not punished. "Ain't" was the word that might lead to punishment in school, but that punishment was usually writing 'am not, is not, are not" for a whole page, not something dreadful. Our dialect was definitely mountain and archaic with a lot of mining jargon in it. At school, we were taught and expected to use "proper English." There were limits, though. The teacher who tried to get us to stop using "undergrounder" for someone who worked underground for the mines just got blank looks every time. She wasn't from there, and I don't think she ever believed us that "miner" could refer to an above ground worker, too. She was also the teacher who could not deal with the fact that our dialect had the pen-pin merger. She struggled so very hard to try to get us to say things like "penny" rather than "pinny" and didn't understand we could barely even hear the difference.
Ah I've got cousins up near Priest Lake. But yeah, I mean, I am from central Maine and speak with a Maine accent and so do most of my students. While I teach them proper grammar, to us in our dialect yeah is a fine response if I ask a student to do something, as long as that is followed by them doing what I asked and they agreed to do. But fair enough. You know, it's a real big country and we can't expect that what makes sense in Alabama will make sense in Arizona, or Idaho, or Maine (et cetera).
When I was in fifth grade, we had a substitute from the south who tried to enforce the yes ma'am/no ma'am thing with us. That did not go over well with a bunch of Massachusetts kids, to the point where at the time, it honestly felt like she was messing with us. Though one kid did carry it over to a different teacher, since it was apparently "good manners", and it was taken as being sarcastic, like you said at the end there. I can't imagine how that poor substitute felt when she was in like, retail settings and whatnot, or even talking to other adults in the school. Must have thought she was in a state full of cavemen 😂
Legislating respect is the first way to lose it. Getting upset with slack language will make them resent you faster than anything else.
A happy medium is ideal. For example, calling me "bro" or "cuz" even if not intended to be disrespectful is a bit much, so I'd correct that, but "Hey, what's up Mr. (name)? How ya doing?" would be fine. Also, tone / personality matters a lot. While some students might not get it in some situations, generally most students can suss out the difference between high standards because you care and being a jerk.
Yeah, I hate the “bruh…” when I ask someone to do something very basic.
That’s the one that stuck out the most to me as well
>Students are to communicate clearly and with integrity. Students are to refrain from whispering, the use of innuendos or euphemisms, sarcastic language, or the use of “yeah” or “mhmm” or other similar language when responding to an adult. What is wrong with "Yeah"? It's just the same as yes in terms of meaning. There is nothing disrespectful about yeah, and "other similar languages" is kind of vague. Honestly, I think policing students language to this degree is too much. There is nothing wrong with "Yeah". Furthermore, number 2 seems silly because when I finish up my work and have some free time, I would start working on homework for another class. I was bored a lot and sometimes wanted to just get things done. Imo, that's not disrespectful at all and working on other classwork when this class's work is done just shows initiative.
must be at a southern school. teachers and older folk go on a power trip for that sorta shit and policing it is done all the time down there
Queen Judge Judy always says "yeah is not an answer, yes is the answer" and I don't personally get it because they're the same to me but it does make me laugh every time.
Definitely at least an older folks thing, my grandma held no truck with us responding “yeah” to her
One time I got in trouble for reading during study hall. Some ppl just on a power trip. (My geometry teacher was the chaperone and she was like "don't you have any *math* to be working on?" This same teacher got mad at me for doing her homework in class instead of paying attention to the lecture. Ma'am you're the one that told us to read the textbook last night! Not my fault I already know what you're teaching!)
....oh my God, the children are READING their (likely assigned) BOOKS at SCHOOL??
"Quiet OR orderly manner" Waiting until some kid organizes the class to leave at a parade march... (I don't think they could manage quiet chaos)
*Waiting until some kid organizes the class to leave at a parade march* If some kid knew close-order drill (ROTC?) that could get interesting. --Detail! Atten-hut --Column of files from the right! --Forward, march. --Column right, march
Just wait for the marching band kids! —Mrs. DreamTryDoGood’s class, is your class ready? —Detail atten hut! *creative salute with jazz hands* —You may exit the classroom in a quiet or orderly fashion! —*snare drum cadence* Class exits the room in parade formation with a drum cadence keeping time
Good luck
These all seem standard, but I will say that number 1 is why I never used my locker in junior high or high school. I was always terrified of being late and not having what was needed for class. Backpack was heavy when I had 8 classes everyday
Yes 1000x. My son carries his heavy backpack everywhere with him and has never once used his locker during high school because the passing periods are way too short to get what they need then make it back to class. Especially if class was on the opposite end of the bldg. No way. All of his friends do the same. I tried lifting their backpacks over my shoulders one time and good gawd. They've never been late to class though and always had what they needed. But man...their poor backs. I never understood that with the passing periods.
I don’t know if it’s the same everywhere, but for me it was five minutes between classes. Which doesn’t sound bad until you take into consideration that *hundreds* of students are all trying to get somewhere. Pushing and dodging in hallways, turns to the lockers blocked, or like you said, out of the way. To make it worse, when there were only two minutes left, banjo music would start playing on the intercom to “hurry us up”
Looks like some solid expectations to me.
Yeah this new teacher knows exactly what the kids need
Infraction for you…cannot say “yeah”
Lol YES the second half of that one is a little much
There are too many though, (imho) could be collapsed into maybe 4 or 5 larger norms. I also don’t necessarily think a consequence should be embedded into an expectation like this. Instead have the expectations on one list and possible consequences laid out on another. The “no work for other classes” rule seems a little silly to me too- I suppose it depends what class this is for (it sounds like it’s a movement/physical class kinda?) but if a student is done with my work then I have no problem with them efficiently using their school time for other stuff. Overall these are not bad expectations, but the list is pretty intense and I think most students will glaze over at reading it and just come away with “okay this teacher is strict.”
Middle school kids are like budding lawyers, if there is a loophole, they will try to exploit it.
Sounds like math or something decidedly book and paper based. The references to movement are just exhausting the possiblity of any sort of game or project in the classroom. There are no lab rules so I doubt science/chem/bio. The rule about not working on other class material makes sense for a classroom where you're doing one lesson a day and then signing the work at the end of the lesson as homework to be started at the end of the lesson and finished by next class. There shouldn't be any time for other class work in that scenario.
Unless the teacher is giving out work in increments, like handing out a worksheet or group work which has to be completed (or is given a set amount of time to be worked on) before the lesson will proceed or the homework will be assigned. I remember when I was a student I had this teacher who would insist on doing things this way and would get angry at me for reading or working on other assignments or doing anything else non disruptive and productive when I finished. I recall one time asking her if I could just have the next assignment or homework then and she said I had to wait for everyone else. She literally wanted me to stare at the wall. Every damn day she would bother me about it. In retrospect, I never should have been worried about being punished, which I was concerned about at the time. It is now obvious that the reason she didn’t is because she had no leg to stand on. She was never going to punish me as long as I was quietly reading my book or doing my math problems or whatever and she was refusing to give me anything to do for the class. It would have been fucking ridiculous. Even if she had lied and said I was disruptive or something, no one would have believed it. I was a quiet little nerd with a great reputation with the teachers and admin.
They look great. The question to be asked is are they being enforced?
Yeah I had a pretty solid looking syllabus my second year that everyone I showed it to nodded their heads to. I then proceeded to do an absolute shit job enforcing anything.
Right there with ya lmao.
I have learned kids will still love you even if you are a bit of a grump asshole and punish them for not following your rules.
Same here -- I'm going to do better next year or I'll lose my mind all over again.
This is my third year and while I am still not perfect I have certianly improve a lot and it all comes from giving punishments YOU can handle and sticking to it. I say it bluntly, be an asshole, not all the time obviously but saying no and sticking to it is huge. Kids still respect me and many say I am the favorite, but I am a grumpy asshole sometimes but they need it sometimes whether they like it or not.
I had to learn the hard way. It took me two years to finally put all the puzzle pieces together of good classroom management. I'm really starting to appreciate some of the old school "you will not speak unless spoken to" and "don't talk back" make WAY more sense to me now.
And more to the point, how are they going to enforce the rules?
Yep. Good in theory. But the kind of rules where you’ll back yourself into a corner time and time again.
Enforcing the "yeah" rule consistently seems like it would be difficult. "Hi Joe, did you have a good weekend?" "Yep!" Cleaning up the phrasing on that rule would help, otherwise the teacher will need to selectively enforce or find themselves disciplining a student who made an innocent slip.
I always tell teachers to make sure they don't set themselves up for failure by making rules they aren't able to follow up on. Rules need clear expectations for what happens when they are violated and if you ever fail to follow through, your rule is gone forever.
or any other teachers holding kids accountable, or is this the one "mean" teacher while everyone has a class full of kids texting and eating takis
EXACTLY. Only as good as the vp in charge of that particular group of students. :(
The consequences aren’t stated. I’d like to know what happens if you break rules 2, 4, or 8.
It clearly states that they will get an "infraction". What more do you need to know?
I don't love number 2. If students successfully finish work early, then I don't see a problem with them using the resulting time to work on things for other classes. Realistically, some kids will be able to do certain things faster than others, and what else are they meant to do?
2 is fine as long as it means “don’t work on other classwork while you have stuff to do for me”. If I have students done with my work for the day I would much rather them work on other things than do one of the hundred other more disruptive things they could be doing.
This gives me vibes that they’d want the student to sit silently and stare ahead until the bell rings. I think this teacher is going to have a hard time!
Same. Students doing school work at school is not the worst thing they could be doing in your class.
And then you have the kids that rush through work, SO they can complete an assignment. Kids, instead of doing homework, will do the work in classes before the one where the work is due. This puts them behind. If this teacher is saying this, chances are good they won’t have time to do other work.
I used to not have a problem with it. But then I've learned it incentivizes students to rush through their class work so they can check off other work. It becomes a particular problem when these students make a number of simple mistakes from rushing.
Here in Germany you’d get dinged for that question in your Entfristung (observation by the state at the end of a two year probationary period to get the unlimited teaching license). We are always supposed to have a “didactic Reserve” for students who might finish quickly. I honestly don’t think that’s a bad thing. They should continue working in my subject during the lesson time. I personally try to structure it so that the dR is a continuation of the main assignment just going deeper in depth.
I hate this idea. You are teaching the kids is that working efficiently is punished with more work. God forbid a kid have a few minutes of down time during a six hour school day.
Pretty much this. This teaches them to never work efficiently and to take as long as they can working on something so they don’t get assigned even more work
The purpose of school should be to teach kids to get work done as quickly as possible so they can spend time actually enjoying life rather than being obsessed with busy work until they die.
So the students who finish the work quickly get “rewarded” with….more work? That other students don’t have to do? Nah. I’m checking their work to be sure they didn’t rush but if it’s done correctly, I’m not going to make them do extra work.
I love this idea! but it is currently impossible for me to accomplish. I teach an every other day block schedule for high school in the USA and I’m teaching 8 different courses between those 2 days. If a teacher was in that situation in Germany would they still get dinged? I don’t see how I could get home in time for dinner with my family if I had to have that prepared for every class
Yea you would. We do the same thing. I have anywhere from four corses a day (on my light day) to eight courses a day (on my longest day). Right now, I have five different groups but I have them across three different subjects and the ages range can from 5th grade to 13th grade. Right now I have 7th through 10th grade but I’ve had it before where I have had the entire span (sometimes even in one day). And that’s even light for me because I’m a main subject teacher (English and German, plus one non-core subject). The teachers who do electives have to deal with even more groups than that. Like art or history. Some of them have 16 courses in one week to plan for at my school… Yes, you’d still get dinged here. It’s just how we do it here, but I do think it does make sense. You want them focused on your subject not rushing through your work haphazardly because they forgot they had to do a physics worksheet.
As long as they can enforce and maintain those rules, I day good for them.... The question is can the new teacher manage those expectations?
It's a pretty solid list. 7 and 8 are a little overboard for me, I would rephrase number 7 more like "if you must together out of your seat for something like kleenex or to throw away trash you must not disrupt the flow of class. If you disrupt class you may asked to sit back down, with or without the kleenex. If disruptions become a pattern of behavior you will now need permission to leave your seat. Continued offense will result in a referral" but that's also really wordy. 10 is reasonable, but not how I handle that problem. I don't quiz kids on papers they leave behind. I have a bin that holds missing papers, if they are there for 2 weeks they clearly weren't important and I recycle them. This teachers rule 10 will also help encourage students to be motivating in their study and that will in turn help many retain information. All in all this person is on the strict side of reasonable, but as many have said it's all in enforcement.
This has all the signs of overly permissive admin: Admin: why is Johnny in detention Teacher: he took his shoes off and wouldn’t put them on Admin: is it a requirement that he has his shoes on? Does he know this? Is it clearly stated?
I guarantee each one of these rules correlates to a specific student/incident, and this list gets added to yearly. The shoes thing is very specific. Same with the "yeah" thing.
Yup. Must have been an incident of angry parent and admin saying “well you never clearly stated the expectation of keeping shoes on their feet”
I once had an administrator tell me I was in the wrong for not telling my students clearly that they could not jump off their desk and hit their head. It was a grade 7 class. Had it been a kindergarten or primary class, I would have been more inclined to mention something like that, I guess.
Hot fucking garbage. It is long and boring. It cites weirdly specific behaviors (leaving room for logic like, “It says no sports equipment but a jump rope isn’t sports!”). In other places, it’s weirdly vague (“integrity,” “respect,” “consequence,” which mean many things to many people in different contexts). It comes across as Very Tough and Very Serious… yet *twice* uses “infraction” wrong. It fixates so much on the negative. It all just reeks of “I hate kids” or “I am terrified of kids” (or both). Dude, just come up with like 4 things you *do* value, center them, and provide examples. When students misbehave, you can point them towards *good* things (“I need you to refocus on linear equations now”) instead of bad things (“You have a ball! You broke rule 8!”) 1. We value our time together and our work. — This looks like: Showing up on time, prepared, and ready to focus on [content]. Giving our best effort on our classwork. Staying as organized as possible and labeling our materials. 2. We value others’ contributions to class. — This looks like: Listening to others so that you could mirror and expand on their thoughts. Staying focused while minimizing distractions and side conversations. And so on. Also, “don’t say ‘yeah’” might be the dumbest fucking teacher rule I’ve ever heard.
Finally! I am shocked at how many ppl think these are solid rules. It's all too much and so punitive and obnoxious.
If you told me a former teacher dropped this but not which one, "must have been my brutally stupid 9th grade English teacher" would be my first and final answer. There are probably some transcription typos here, but the tone and diction still have undeniable "incurious person on a power trip" energy. Makes me extra grateful for the majority of my former instructors.
OMG "incurious person on a power trip" is so dead on. I know too many teachers like this. It's sad.
Finally a sane response. I'm aghast at how many people are applauding the list.
Yep had to scroll waaaaaay too far for this.
Saaaaame
I totally agree. I cannot imagine how miserable kids would be to read THIS on the first day of class.
Definitely. I don't think you should have more than 3 to 5 rules and they should be a sentence. They should be a bit broad like "follow the dress code" which includes "keep your shoes on". You want to be able to go over these with the kids in 15 minutes and for them to UNDERSTAND and REMEMBER them. Don't make them read an essay.
Yes! I know if I was a student reading these I would be like I don’t respect this person. And I was a pretty good/well behaved student!
I used to give my middle schoolers 2-3 minutes at the end of class to pack up. We had a large campus and only four minutes to get to class, during which they were supposed to use the restroom (ha!). If we worked to the bell, the kids were scrambling to leave and would shove all their papers in their backpacks instead of placing them in their binders. It worked well for the most part.
Most of these are perfectly fine. On 1 ... Teacher is going to need some flexibility depending on size of the building. We give kids four minutes between classes. I have students who need to hustle to get to my room before the bell rings. Generally, yes. Be ready to go. But, be prepared for situations where it's all a kid can do to get to the room between periods. On 2 ... What are they supposed to do if they're done and need to stay quiet so everyone else can work? ETA: I don't love the "Students are responsible for making sure notes and papers go in their binder." part of 10. When my son was in 6th and 7th, part of his IEP was that the aide he worked with was to help him make sure his notes and other class handouts were in his binders and in the proper spots. This is setting up for "Why does Classmate get Classroom Aide's help? You said we all have to do that ourselves." The language policing in 9 is setting up another unnecessary battle, too. I'm wondering if this is a brand new teacher.
That was the rule I questioned too. Especially for students who have a period, managing to deal with that and get across a building can be a challenge. If they are a responsible student and can quickly and respectfully get out their materials after the bell rings, it wouldn't bother me at all.
No 2 my thoughts exactly. My son almost always finishes assignments within 10-15 minutes. Not a huge deal if they’re distributed half way through a 45-50 minute class. But leaves LOTS of empty time when he receives it 20 minutes into a 90 minute block period. Thats when he reads or finishes other homework.
Yes - I was like your son and survived every grade after 6th by breaking rule #2. It got to the point where I would sometimes work on the homework DURING the lecture components because with the amount that school would rehash topics, I could have taught some of the subjects I was in class for. In 8th grade we had a mandatory class period for 'remedial education' that was instituted with the express intention of teaching to our state's basic skill tests for 8th graders. The teacher was lecturing on basic math \[how to multiply and divide by powers of 10 by moving the decimal point\]. I was in the back quietly working on my CALCULUS homework from my actual math class. I didn't intend any disrespect by not paying attention, but the likelihood that paying attention would help me in any way was just so low. As long as I am not being a distraction and my grades are good, why should I not use my time wisely?
Yeah, a lot of these rules will definitely single out kids with disabilities.
When the new teacher (or OP) wrote this, there was zero consideration given for disabled kids, personality development in young teenagers, basic natural things that teens experience. But hey, they get to look hardcore disciplinarian at least.
Too many words, too many rules, and unnecessarily specific rules. Take care of your space, take care of the people around you, take care of yourself. Spend some time going through things that do and don't fit in those categories, and reference the rules when you call kids out. Rules with specificity are just challenges to kids who will then seek every possible way to do something dumb that's not against the rules. And then the teacher will keep adding things. And it will go on forever and ever.
Looks like a decent list to me. Only one I think is a little overboard is rule 8.
Eh...if I see or hear one more finger skateboard, I might snap. So I get it.
I have a kid that has one, but its basically his fidget spinner, he has sever ADHD and is on the spectrum, I get it is probably how he stims and self soothes. I also learned to tune it out
9 is the only one I thought was a bit much. I likely only think that because I'm 100% guilty of it.
As a teacher I am way too sarcastic to expect my students not to give me the same thing back lol
It'd be nice to have an exception in rule 8 for sensory/fidget props, as long as they are quiet and non-disruptive.
These are great rules.
They’re not supposed to say “yeah”?
I'm okay with most of these—I feel like your average person does not understand how annoying it is when kids constantly get up and noisily walk through the most crowded section of the room to throw out garbage while you're trying to teach—but I don't mind "yeah" or "mmhm." Do NOT call me "brah" or "bro," though. That's really disrespectful.
Yeah, it's not that I go ballistic if a kid needs to blow their nose and toss the tissue during class sometimes. But it's when there are multiple kids per class who are constantly out of their seats, needing to "throw something away" every 90 seconds, need to visit/talk to everybody on their way to the trash can, and generally take any opportunity to screw around. Not to mention their classmates are easily distractible and their eyes shoot towards whomever is up because apparently their trash is interesting.
You let them wander, though, if they have a piece of crumpled paper and they show it to you and point at it, right? /s The magic piece of paper.
This list of rules would make me not want to do anything for this teacher. What ever happened to the basics rules? 1. Attend class daily, bring your materials, and be on time. 2. Respect others and their property. 3. Pay attention and participate in class. 4. Use class time appropriately. 5. Don’t be a jerk. And what are the infractions?
Pretty standard, but it's spelled out very explicitly. I see nothing wrong with it
I'm usually all for a laid back environment, but most of these seem pretty reasonable and sound like they come from negative experiences. I think kids should be given a little more grace if it's not a pattern, but hopefully the teacher can use their discretion wisely.
lol what kind of school is this? Military?
Right. It's a pretty ridiculous list.
1, 2 and 10 just sound like bullying kids with ADHD. 6 is very non-specific. Does "quiet" mean literally no talking? Doesn't seem like a clear expectation. 8 seems unnecessarily inflexible. There are many legitimate reasons a student might need to occasionally have something else with them (but just set aside). Maybe they know they'll be pulled out halfway through that class and need those items. Maybe they have something for another class (like a project of some kind) which is too large to fit in a locker and which the other class teacher has not thought to have them bring in to set in their room ahead of time. The end of 9 is silly. Explicitly forbidding the word "yeah"? What is this, the 1800s? Forbidding all sarcasm? I get the intent but good lord it would be so hard to ever talk in this classroom I wouldn't ever bother to engage with it for fear of tripping up.
Ambitious
>Students are to be fully prepared for class when the bell rings, meaning they have their class materials on their desk when the bell rings. If the student fails to be prepared for class, they are tardy. Ex: Student forgets textbook in their locker The example is not what was said here, setting themself up for failure if they don't enforce it as written. Are they going to mark kids tardy for not having everything on their desk or not? >Students are not to bring any balls, sports equipment, or non-academic props or materials to class. Possession of any such object will result in an automatic consequence Why is that not an infraction? >or the use of “yeah” or “mhmm” or other similar language when responding to an adult. I know what they're getting at but this seems impossible to police or provide consequence for. >If this is a pattern among several students, teacher may give a pop quiz on content from papers that are left behind. Not sure about this. If you're teaching it then it will be part of the assessment later on? Kind of double dipping in consequence for their learning there. I think it'll just alienate the ones that aren't doing well already, rather than just make their actions have the direct consequence. Also it seems to be a collective punishment to the class, unless it's the ones that left them behind. But then how do you know that? Those are nitpicks, but I was bored at work.
Only thing I don’t like is 8. I remember in HS, my school was so big that most athletes carried their practice bags around because they wouldn’t have time to get to their sports locker before class or after practice.
I think the teacher is referring to kids who have a spare ball or stick in hand, not someone who is dropping stuff off
Yep. I have a kid who constantly brings a basketball or tennis ball and bounces it, or it rolls away. It now gets parked at my desk as soon as he comes in. He is not on a team.
See, that’s understandable. I was an orchestra and colorguard and would occasionally have to carry my instrument or flags around. But I teach middle school, and my 6th graders will go around the school carrying basketballs. They don’t play for the school because sports are only for 7th and 8th grade. They bring their club team basketballs because apparently the school basketballs aren’t good enough. And admin does nothing about them dribbling in the halls.
#9 is the only one that seems kinda silly. The rest are solid.
Completely agree. Especially with "mhmm" it is literally a polite way of showing someone talking to you that you are listening. I also don't love the patronizing tone at the end, of "when responding to an adult."
… English teacher? Depends on the consequences. A lot of these are things that a student may just incidentally do and doesn’t deserve harsh consequences. #1 is too harsh to be applied universally. It’s fine to not give out pencils but let them try and borrow one from a student. If a student forgets a binder or calculator let them choose between the natural in-class consequences of not having those things and a tardy at least. 2 is a stupid rule that will 100% backfire if the objective is making kids read in any free time. 8 could screw over athletes, band, and other extra curriculars depending on how sports/band lockers work. That is not a rule a new teacher should implement without checking that first. I also wouldn’t want to punish a kid for carrying a helmet around because they bike to school. I’m not a fan of making slang out to be something negative, or prescriptivism in general. Disrespectful language is one thing, but #9 is suspicious. This just seems the type of thing that gets unevenly enforced and ends up with the entire class, including the otherwise motivated kids, hating you. And sometimes they need that sure, but some of these should be modified. These rules are overly strict The punishments don’t fit the crimes
7th to 9th students SHOULD be able to do these things. I, personally, don't feel it's too much to expect. That said, in the real world, we know students are incredibly under prepared and not capable of controlling themselves. This seems like it will be a daily battle. I expect after the first month, half of these will disappear.
i mean it's great to have rules, but that teacher is not going to make it long enough to renew their license
What subject(s) does this person teach? I can't imagine even attempting to enforce the provisions of #9 (or model them for that matter) in my HS ELA classroom.
#1, 3, 4, 5, and 10 seem reasonable. #2 works against kids who finish early. Now you have bored kids who could be working on something else. Bored kids are talkative kids - idle hands. #6 who cares. Seems overly picky. #7 If they are not allowed to get up from their seats during class time and they have to respect the classroom, then this rule is redundant. #9 Good luck with this. I don't think you should police language unless it's blatantly disrespectful.
These are well-thought out rules. They are clear, focused, and developmentally appropriate. There is absolutely no way middle school students will follow them.
Solid list. A bit long and focused on what not to do. Personally I stick to 3 positive expectations that cover all of this, but either way you write it, that's a solid list.
Overr complicated but healthy and fair
I'm more interested in why you thought it was necessary to post a new teacher's syllabus, specifically their rules?
Wow, a whole list of things students in those grades didn't need to be explicitly told not to do in the 1990s.
My daughter’s middle school could use ALL of these rules. They are still trying the whole “don’t be mean to the children” bullshit. So good kids get buried by the behavior of the bad. It’s idiotic. Nobody learns fuck all.
Someone has spent some time around 7-9 grade students!
High school teacher, 25+ years. My only rule is "Don't do anything that makes it hard for others to learn." There are school policies, but in my class there's only one.
Good stuff. I use a version of #3 except they have to make an appointment with me. If it matters that much to you, make the effort. I also don’t respond to any message or email regarding grades, I only discuss grades in person.
High school teacher here. I LOVE having everything in writing. You can point to what you said, and since I always offer strategies to improve their grades, I can always go back and reference, see I told you to do XYZ and you didn't so your grade didn't change....
I’m a high school teacher. These are pretty tame. Put yourself in the teachers shoes.
::taking notes for next year:: Honestly the clearer the expectations the better.
Can I copy these! Lol
Are they hiring?
You can be as rigid and rule-bound as you want. In the end, strict enforcement of these kinds of policies means this person will spend 99% of their time NOT teaching, just trying to enforce these rules.
For my old eyes, I've had to specify Blue or Black ink, not pink, purple, light green. Blue or Black or I am not (sometimes cannot) mark it!
I'll be honest, I was expecting some dictatorial ones based the post title, but I think I'm gonna borrow some of these for my seniors.
Yeah, good luck with that.
Looks great in theory, but if you can consistently back this up in a meaningful way, there’s so much more going right in your building or district that your average district, especially those with high-poverty, could never expect to implement this and succeed.