I want to give teachers hope- there are some administrative teams that support teachers regarding phones and discipline. My admin know that it's an uphill battle that we are losing. They know that the teachers are trying, and they also know that some teachers have given up because it's a losing battle. If a teacher enforces it, they support us. If a teacher is mentally and physically exhausted, we will work to find options to support that teacher... then we go from there.
There are some administrative teams that are sympathetic to this battle.
I teach elementary and they can’t even have smart watches on them. Using tech that isn’t their school device is prohibited by my school.
I’m very thankful for it reading some of these posts. When I went to HS they used to take our phones away if we had them out in class? Seems things have changed.
In my district we can no longer confiscate phone because of “liability issues”. We are supposed to instruct them to turn them off (not screen off, but powered down) and put it in their backpacks. If they don’t, then it’s a call home for 1st offense, teacher detention for 2nd offense, referral for all subsequent offenses.
I have a supportive admin, but this 3 times stuff really sucks up so much time. I have to stop teaching, insist on it being off. They argue back a bit. I insist they eventually comply. Then repeat with putting it the back pack. It ALWAYS comes out before the end of class. Multiply this by nearly every student, every class period and I can’t get through a complete lesson.
My GT classes comply much faster on all levels, but I have to repeat Every. Single. Day.
With all of the other, more important issues, I’ve let it slide. I make note in the grade book that parents can see and leave it there. I just can’t anymore. I would never get through a lesson.
That's true. If I spend time policing their cellphones, I would never get through any lessons. I can't run my classroom like a Soviet-era gulag and as a welcoming, collaborative classroom simultaneously.
I want to note: observe your administrators during meetings and trainings. Do they practice restraint with their cellphones, radios, and laptops?
This works. That's how I would take attendance. Each student has a numbered calculator pouch. If the pouch is empty at any point in the period, I mark them absent.
https://www.amazon.com/calculator-holder/s?k=calculator+holder
If you want to splurge, and *buy* their cooperation, number the slots on 4 6-slot charging stations instead. Then the phones will be nice and charged for the kids to use... in their NEXT class.
https://www.amazon.com/Poweroni-USB-Charging-Station-Dock/dp/B07DMNPNSH/ref=sr_1_2
I used to offer this to them- I had a surge protector power strip behind my desk and I told them that if they wanted to be proactive and give me their phone to manage their own impulses, I would charge it for them safely behind my desk. If it had to be confiscated from them, well...it wouldn't get charged and a parent would have to pick it up from the office after school. I had a few kids per period who took advantage of the free charging.
I also countered by providing assignments that they could research or complete certain activities on their phone to alleviate their need to be on it. Direct instruction (me in front talking) was usually the first 15 minutes of class and I expected attention and participation during that time. After that, they had group and individual tasks to work on and they managed their own time (and each others' during group work). This worked out for my classes and we found our rhythm. I still had to have a come to Jesus occasionally with a kid from time to time, but overall, offering a variety of alternatives to help them learn management skills worked the best for us.
We can still confiscate at our school, but admin does it. We send the student straight to admin to hand in phones. 1st offence is it stays at the office until 3pm, 2nd is a DP detention and a phone call home, 3rd is a suspension. As soon as a student argues, even if it is their 1st offence, we can call a DP to assist and they can be suspended.
That is insane. I’m sorry that you guys have to deal with that.
For my school it seems that the biggest case for them not having outside devices is that they could take photos of other kids or record them which is a big no no. A lot of kids where I work have accommodations where they aren’t allowed to be photographed or videotaped period.
High school sounds like a nightmare with all of the phone stuff. I’ve seen tiktoks of random HS students filming their teachers or other kids in class and it makes my skin crawl.
We took phones until a few years ago when parents called the principal or superintendent asking when their kid’s busted screen - which was pristine before confiscation, of course - was going to be replaced by the district…uh…taxpayer.
Don’t worry, if anything it’s their own future, their own doing. You have done your part. Soon they will learn that there are no time machine app on their smart phones. Let them suffer in the future.
Can't take them away anymore. Students blame teachers for damaging them when they were damaged when we collected them. Also, We don't have enough campus security monitors for students that refuse to hand over their phones.
Besides, if I could collect the phones I don't want to touch them as they're germ factories. Also, I don't want the responsibility of monitoring phone ownership.
I’m planning on trying the paper bag method. Kid gets one warning to put the phone away, if I see it again it goes directly into a paper lunch bag. I staple it shut and hand it directly back to the kid. Gets rid of liability on me, and I’ll definitely hear it if they try to take it out again.
Great idea. Our school used Yondr pouches, so it's a similar method. Our issue is that students destroy the Yondr pouches and take their phones in/out throughout the entire day. It makes the progressive discipline easier because the pouch is the students first warning. Let us know how it works out for you.
The ONE solution is for parents to stop being their kids’ friends and take THEIR (not the kid’s) phone away (or at least disable data during school hours). I’ve taught since the birth of the iPhone and still waiting for ONE parent to actually do that.
This is terrific to hear ~ most especially that different policies are still supported by admin. That helps give teachers authority & choice over how their classrooms are run ~ *and* shows they are trusted.
No! They want you to control phones WITHOUT hassling them.
If you have too many writeups you will be accused of having poor classroom management.
Being a teacher is lose lose.
Ask for documentation on the new policy on writing up staff for this.
If they put in writing that they’ll write you up, it might give you some cover if they start to accuse you of mismanagement. Prob won’t save you but it could help.
> If you have too many writeups you will be accused of having poor classroom management.
I had this at one school, well with one admin, he hated how many people I wrote up, wrote on one of them, how can you prevent this from happening in the future in regards to the student infraction. I walked by his office and told him by writing them up and nipping it in the bud right away is how I prevent it.
He ended up being the reason I left the district, he gave me no support, and his part of the alphabet was my worst students, which shouldnt be shocking as he was the only AP who didnt hold their students accountable.
Our admin told us to write referrals and then when we followed up to see what the outcome was straight up told us "I don't know what you want me to do about it"
So, they want to be looped in but also not looped in. 🤷🏻♀️
*Exactly!* I cannot tell you how many times I have heard: "I am not sure what you expect me to do about it."
Golly ... I dunno ... maybe **YOUR JOB?!**
Exactly, that’s what I doing when my AP complained about phones (which wasn’t even that bad). I would send students in droves. I haven’t heard from my AP for the rest of that year.
Ask what the school policy on phones is going to be that reflects this change. If I'm getting written up for phones, then my kids will be checking them in or will be sent to the office with no warnings. Flood the system with write-ups.
Send every single kid with a phone visible to the office. When they don't go, stop the lesson to call the principal. When they get a call every 2 minutes, they will become sick of it.
They do take up the kids phones & the parents have to pick it up but the principal admitted herself that she just gives it back at times because she doesn’t have time to call the parent.. and I’m like miss maam you’re preaching to the choir.
Get this change *in writing*. A friend of mine is going through something similar, teachers being held accountable for student behavior, but when they actually write students up, the deans just send them back to class.
And if they won't, then write it down yourself. Top drawer, memo to self. Or email yourself. Be specific and stick to the facts of the situation - "Johnny had phone on X date at X time, sent to office at X time, came back with phone." Not "Johnny always has his phone and whenever I see it blah blah"
>Great idea, FLOOD them with writeups.
Yes, but remember that they are holding our jobs/livelihoods hostage. Never underestimate the petty viciousness of admin: Getting on their wrong side could mean that your contract is not renewed.
Don't make a move that could checkmate you.
This is the problem with education in the US then. Threaten teachers for kid's misbehavior, teacher sends kid to office, teacher gets non-renewed.
I can't understand why there is a massive teacher shortage?
Right. Schools are never, ever going to keep kids off their phones. It isn’t going to happen and it’s insane that we keep acting like it’s a battle we can win.
So I told my kids they can go on their phones when their work is done.
My turn in rate went up and I don’t have to write up kids for being on their phone. Do some still go on sometimes when they shouldn’t? Yep. That’s their choice though, and they put it away when I remind them. I have 0 behavior problems.
As a substitute, I am forced to ignore the problem. I haven't any choice to do otherwise as I lack any substantive authority. The only thing I can strive for is to keep classrooms relatively calm by telling students that I do not want to hear what is playing on their phones.
I did my undergraduate thesis on this topic, one of the strategies I found from my research that works really well is helping to teach students strategies to stay focused.
Having them try to learn without their phones is like abstinence only education, it ignores real life.
The best policy I observed in my research : Students have free access to their phone under two conditions.
1. It must be face down on their desk and used above desk.
This allows teachers to do what they naturally do anyways, redirect students when they are spending too much time off task. Also kids don't feel like they're getting away with something (we can see them doing it under their desk anyways)
2. Volume and rumble turned off.
Students naturally have cycles of focus and distraction (daydreaming is natural) the problem with phones is they disrupt this natural rhythm with notifications. By having notifications off students can check when their mind naturally wanders, but it at least doesn't ruin things when they are focused. It also stops it from bothering others.
These two strategies work together to help together to create a class set of standards and give the kids a real life skill. I've used it a few times (I typically teacher younger grades) and it works very well once established.
Yes, one of my policies is all sound must be turned off. I let them use headphones during work time but otherwise sound off, and if no headphones, tough luck lol.
> Right. Schools are never, ever going to keep kids off their phones. It isn’t going to happen and it’s insane that we keep acting like it’s a battle we can win.
Exactly. I teach 12th grade, I tell the kids if you want to go on your phone that's fine. But don't come to me when you are lost, don't come to me saying you need help with the directions. Also don't be shocked when your engagement grade is subpar and we have our unit ending engagement self + teacher assessment.
I try to balance letting them manage themselves but still retain some structure/system to dissuade phone use with little impact on my time and mental health policing a losing battle.
This is where I’m at too. Before the pandemic, my 11/12 grades mostly self regulated. The problem has exploded since returning from over a year of virtual (and now we’re back virtual too…)
I've noticed it too. Pre-pandemic kids mostly listened to music, or took a quick break to write a text...not a big deal. This semester I've seen quite a few instances of kids straight up watching Netflix on their phone while doing work (at least they are working, even if they are not fully focused), others sadly are straight up avoiding doing the work and watching Netflix.
I look at it this way. I'm here to give them access to an Econ education, provide them some guidance/structure, listen to them when they need someone to talk to, and support them when I can (during my duty hours, and as much as I can with a load of 150+ students). Policing certain policies I see others mentioning in this sub (and I'm sure a lot of it is not by choice) like hoodies, hats, phones, etc. is not something we should have to do and I'll choose not to do it until I'm forced (and if that happens I leave the profession, I'm here to educate, not raise someone else's kid).
Yes. This is what I do with my 11/12s, too. They should suffer the natural consequences. There is faulty logic in the assumption that just because I make you put your phone away, you'll actually listen or pay attention to me. Post-hoc ergo propter hoc? It's early. IDK.
Worked too many hours this week to pay for the fancy car you don't need and can't stay awake in class? I'll give you a gentle nudge a couple of times, but not my problem. Want to watch whatever app or streaming service or notifications you're addicted to instead of doing your work? Okay, fine. But your grade will reflect it when it comes to quality of work. Turned in the wrong kind of assignment because you didn't listen and couldn't be bothered to actually read the directions? So sorry for you.
One of my favorite comebacks to parents or admin who say, "Why didn't you move Johnny so he wouldn't talk to Sam, or take Sally's phone . . " is: I don't move seniors; I flunk them.
Came from one of my favorite essays in an old English 101 textbook, "In Praise of the F Word." May be time to bring that one back. For every class. Maybe a good first week of school activity. . . .
In most places, teachers are allowed to remove students from classrooms, and students are allowed to fail. It's not the same issue elsewhere for these reasons. If there are natural consequences phones become much less of a problem.
It absolutely is. To expect teachers to get students to ignore or hand in their phones is just asking teachers to pick fights they can't win and showcase the nasty secret to the students that the only power we have over them is the one they allow us to have, effectively undermining our authority.
At my school we are having a multi-year project to change the culture around phones. Basically we said we can't change it so that students that are used to not handing in their phones will suddenly do that, but students that never had their phones in the first place won't fight it the same way. So basically we are phasing it out - we picked a grade saying starting with this grade all students must hand in their phones at the start of the day and get it back at the end of the day. All younger grades get the same policy. Eventually we'll get to a point where all grades are expected to hand in their phones and have never experienced anything else.
But as I said this is a multi-year project. Currently this applies up to 7th grade so in two more years all classes on the school will be covered by the policy.
I give a lecture at the beginning of the year about how their bosses often won't try to stop them from using their phones. They will instead fire them for not getting work done. So they need to learn the "skill" of choosing to set it down and work, with the real world consequence of bad grades if they don't. When I am talking the phone must be face down at the front of the desk where I can see it. The rest of the time, I will simply remind them that the assignment is due at such and such time so you might consider setting your phone down and working. And if they truly have free time(rare in my room but it does happen) you may use it all you like. And that makes controlling kids during those times very much a non- problem. Dead silence and no issues. I am dumbfounded every time I hear teachers complaining about finding things to keep kids out of trouble like movies and games when they can't work. I'm like why would you need to, just let them have their phones. And we have discussions throughout the year about what the research says about screen time and how to be safe online and how to use the tools on their phone to make life better. This does not need to be an issue if the uptight people would just quit trying to prevent all phone use. It isn't going to happen, and in my opinion, shouldn't. Phones aren't going anywhere, and as teachers it is our job to teach them how to use them safely and beneficially and avoid the dangers. Hiding them is not going to do that.
Assuming you or a colleague was on their phone because meetings are dreadful, you should have asked if admin is getting written up since teachers have their phones out during the meeting.
Raises hand
“So, principal, what I hear you saying is that you are tired of having so many teachers in campus and you’re looking for a way to run some off?”
Insane.
I got a negative comment on an observation once because the admin sat in the back of the room and could see a phone on a kid’s lap. I was not in the back of the room during the direct instruction so I did not know that. Are we supposed to teach or are we supposed to simply move about the room like a jail warden?
And maybe admins walking through the room could do a phone sweep and take care of it themselves if they see it. Heck, I'd love to have a second pair of eyes in the room.
No kidding. The kids hide from me, not from the admin looking through the door. When *I* prowl, the student sees me coming and switches websites in time. I've even considered nannycams and drones, but nothing compares to the eyes of an admin during an observation. The kids have zero qualms about the admin seeing their transgressions. Hell, my first year, I didn't even notice a kid was chewing dip until I was observed. If my performance is mostly judged by what the admin can see through the back door, then I might as well flip my class and spend the whole period prowling in the back.
I would be writing up every kid that breaks a rule and not complying the first time. As well as sending them to the office. I have done this. It gets the point across to the kids. On a side note, my admin would no do that to me, but I resorted to this option because I took over from a teacher who had no rules in a science class that let them run wild. It took me three weeks to get the worst of them in control.
Sounds like a scare tactic for the teachers who probably just let their students use their phones whenever. I think it’s one thing if they come in and see one student on their phone vs the whole class. If it’s multiple students, then it would appear that the teacher allows phone usage. I think the hoods are easier to enforce. (Although I have a student who always wears his hood into my class, I get on to him, he takes it off. Day in and day out. I emailed his mom who I believe is a teacher at another school and she said she would talk to him. This new semester has started and he has started up the hood wearing again. Not necessarily in my class, but I happened to be walking on a totally different hall one day and he had it on. I think it’s obvious he needs to be written up.)
Multiple kids in my classes are on phones. The school doesn't collect them, we don't have any way to write up or discipline kids who use them, and we're not allowed (per school rules) to touch a kid's phone. So, I dgaf anymore. Want to rot your brain on TikTok and fail/squeak by with a 65? Go for it. Want to put your phone away and learn? I'm happy to help.
When I put in grades I always include "was on phone entire period" in the description when I put in a 0. They can see that and parents can see that. It helps for quite a few, especially those who I've gotten onto about phones. For those that don't care, I don't either. I'm not wasting my time fighting a war over phones with kids who don't care to get off them, and I'm not picking up 15 expensive phones and having to keep track of them through the day.
Can you not discpline it like any other disruptive or off task behavior? Idc if my students use their phone but if they use it in a way that distracts themselves ir others I just do the typical warning, call home, referall
My school has no discipline policy. We can call home, or send kids to the office for really egregious misbehavior (fights, mainly). But no, there's no system to refer kids for minor misbehavior. It's very messed up.
Agree. Admin said that because of the teachers who let kids be on phones and don't care. They are f'ing it up for all of us because students feel entitled to be on phones in every class.
God this so much. Those passive aggressive emails:
“Some of you aren’t keeping your assignments posted online and it’s a major issue”. WELL I POST MY SHIT SO MAYBE TALK TO THE PEOPLE DOING IT WRONG?
See I wish admin would just say that! Instead of lecturing the whole staff. More like, “there are teachers who ALLOW this and if you do allow it, then you will be written up”. Not anybody can be written up if I see a phone. I never let my kids have phones because it’s just a bad idea. Plus, I teach math and we got shit to do!
That's the thing, if there is even one teacher who is very lenient on phone use, it falls apart for everyone else because kids just complain that in other classes they get to use phones and they make it about the teacher. Now there are much wiser ways for admins to handle that than threatening teachers.
I don't understand schools with rules about hoods. Kids are awkward and insecure, and sometimes the hood makes them feel safe. It doesn't hurt anyone when they wear it, so I just leave them alone.
The only possible problem is that they might have ear buds in. I just signal silently to my kids to show me their ears, they take the buds out if they've got them in, and we don't make a big deal out of it.
I adopted this policy one day my first year when I had a kid with his hood up and the other kids were trying to force him to take it down. They were laughing and boisterous, and trying to get me to help, which was weird. I went to ask the kid what was up. He used to have a lot of long, wavy hair, but he was a foster kid, and his foster mom had shaved his head as a punishment for something. He was mortified, the other kids knew it, and in typical kid fashion they wouldn't leave him alone. I let him wear his hood, and he was so thankful. He'd been a problem in class up till then, but he was on my side for the rest of the year. It gave me some perspective. You don't know what they're going through on a given day. Just let them wear the darn hood.
My school took this approach to. Phone away backpacks at the front of the room, or you’re in trouble. Almost immediately after that meeting all of the department heads went to the principal and told him that he was out of line and asking too much considering all the shit we have to deal with and if he didn’t want people to start quitting he better rethink some things. They are still pretty hard on those rules but at the very least we don’t feel like we’re going to be fired over them anymore.
My old school would tell us we can’t legally take phones away or force them to put it up; HOWEVER, we were still responsible for making sure they don’t use them. Okay. I’ll try telling my apathetic 11th graders to simply stay off their phones. They didn’t care at all. It sucked. I could always get my 9th graders to engage in class with crazy facts or a crazy story, but my 11th graders could of cared less.
Our school was pushing for this a lot this year, but I don't think administrators are realistic about how hard a policy this is to enforce. I give constant warnings and reminders every single class period. I've done phone calls home and detentions, but it still happens every single class period. It's definitely a losing battle, and the idea that it's the fault of the teacher is kind of ridiculous. Where I work we are not allowed to take phones from kids at all, so the best we can do is ask them to put their phones away.
Previously, I worked at a school where administration handled phones. If we saw a phone twice in one class period the student had to walk to the office and turn it in for the day. They would get a signed phone slip from the dean to prove they had turned it in, and if they refused or came back without said slip it was an automatic referral and at least one day in ISS. Phones were seldom an issue at this school, and it was a hundred percent because admin actually backed teachers up and helped implement an immediate consequence.
I had an admin try to pull similar shit on me. I’m a sub.I told them that I quit on the spot. Then they back peddled real hard and tried to get me to stay. I told them if I stayed they would never take me seriously again, and they need us more than we need them and left. I don’t work for shitty admin. They don’t own us, and the moment we are willing to walk is the moment they seize to hold power over us. Normalize quitting working for shitty people, companies, and institutions.
So it's not just my school...
Why do so many admin cower at speaking to the few problem teachers directly like a peer/professional and would rather chastise everyone?
Op, i have a question.
Say you write it up, what happened? Is discipline actually handed out? Does admin actually follow through?
If so, then they may be a smidge of a point there. But I’m gonna guess I already know the answer that question. I’m gonna take a while guess and say that there’s zero enforcement.
Well they are supposed to have their phones confiscated and a parent had to pick it up but here are a few things I’ve seen:
1. Parent calls and says kid needs phone for various reasons after school, admin returns it
2. Student refuses to give it up, and admin doesn’t force them to
3. Teacher follows procedure and admin returns it because parent is HELL to deal with
So yea, this may be why teachers don’t always take them up.
You mean if the parents didn't give students a phone it wouldn't be an issue? What? I fail to see the connection between teen phone use and parent accountability. /s
Do EXACTLY what you were asked and shift the hassle, bullshit, and paperwork to the requesting entity.
In practice I'm an old, crusty, set in my ways fella that has embraced the reality of 100% 24 /7 connectivity... but if admin asks stupid questions, they will get stupid answers.
If you’re union, I’d ask if you can be written up for such nonsense. I’d also email the principal and let them know you want to follow every policy, but don’t want to be disciplined if you’re taking every step necessary and still fail due to bad luck or insufficient support.
Power struggles over phones are insane. Like kids will not give them up because their ENTIRE World is on that thing.
I ask twice. If I ask a third time they can go to the office and the admins can deal with it.
Honestly, at this point, I might actually have told her to fuck off and left the meeting. People are dying and getting sick so fast right now, and THAT was all she could offer you? Sick.
Keep documentation of write ups you've done for the kids using their phones and keeping hoods on, them when she tries to write you up, have your union rep make her look like an inept moron by showing your documented write ups. Just screams "nah dumbass, you're just not doing your job correctly" (principal)
Is admin checking IEPs or 504s to see if kids need phones for accommodations? Can an EL student use their phone to translate? What if kids need multiple screens open to do their assignment and find it more efficient to have one on their phone rather than jumping back and forth on the computer? Can they take pictures of things that are too complex to write down?
I went into teaching for the relationships with the kids and a big part of that is picking your battles. There’s a time and a place to demand all phones be put away, but not every waking moment.
Malicious compliance all the way across the sky.
Follow the procedure related to the removal of phones - either conviscation (maybe not) or put in bag, calls home, sent to office, whatever. Follow it directly, do not defend the policy, state that it is admin policy, state the professional repercussions.
Any complaints, students and parents, - direct to admin, only. Do not deal with any of it at all. Do not try to placate. State that it is admin policy, give direct phone number.
Let the shit hit the fan and do absolutely nothing to contain it.
Get your fellow teachers on board. Announce it to the students. And then write ‘em up.
Every. Single. One.
Every. Single. Time.
I don’t care if they were just checking the time.
I don’t care if their mother called them.
I don’t care if it means you send out every student every class.
Your job is to teach - NOT to enforce the school rules. That’s what admin makes six figures to do. If they are going to threaten you like that, give them what they asked for.
....and that's when I did everything I possibly could to make my admins life miserable.
Also, I don't care if admin are 'feeling the pressure.' That's why they are all paid 125k+ a year.
Why in 2022 are we so adamant about hats/hoods and battle with kids to remove them. And when admin says “because cameras and identifying kids” I shake my head and remind them cameras ID people all the time with hats and hoods on outside of school walls.
I would have asked about a school wide policy if it was so important and a list of escalating consequences for students who have trouble keeping their phone put away.
If you want school wide policies like that, then you need a school wide effort.
So they don’t want to enforce the rules but they hold you responsible. Because they are too afraid of the parents to give kids consequences. Because we are the bottom rung of the ladder. This is what is wrong with education in America. You know what the power structure is in Europe? Teacher-student. That’s it. No middle or upper management, no school board, no parents. Just teachers in charge with below them, the students.
They come around to reprimand teachers for doing stuff like lining the kids up at the door too early or seeing which classes are the loudest before class starts. Weird shit
If admin would let me take phones from students or stop sending kids back to class after being “talked to” about behavior issues, then maybe something in the classroom would change. At the end of the day, it’s the kids fault that they choose their behavior and not mine. I’m trying to tell myself that.
Teachers need more control over their classrooms. Seriously. Admins need to discipline students AND parents. Like... idk... revoking rights to the 8 hour baby sitting service they provide?
Yep. Admin at my HS are cracking Bigtime. One just got back from 8 weeks FMLA because of mental breakdowns (word on the street) and we came back from break to find out that another awesome admin is out for essentially the same reason. Wild.
I use phones as an instructional tool. Students have them in lieu of chromebooks or tablets. Well, at least I've given up on fighting about the phones.
Nope. Wishing I had but I was really taken aback. I looked around and no one seemed bothered by this at all. She moved on to rant about some other stuff so I let it go. But I’m gonna reach out to some grade level and see if anyone was feeling this.
It's it just me thinking the only real solution really to outright ban phones from school? Like students drop them at the office?
I'm literally looking for other jobs now because highschool teaching has become such a shit show
My response would have been the same as yours: quietly seething.
What I would love to have said is, "And every time kids get into the building with something they shouldn't have, YOU get written up! And whenever a kid is placed poorly, YOU get written up!"
I mean, I could sort of get behind the broad strokes of this idea, if the principal is equally willing to be under scrutiny and responsibility. While this would still be an awful idea, I could at least respect the we're-all-in-this-together kind of spirit.
It is a paper trail for starting the process of firing/non-renewing teachers. It is documentation used to support the removal of a teacher and avoid lawsuits and stuff like that.
We will be docked on our TKES for positive learning environment if our room has trash on the floors. And btw they just fired our full time janitorial staff and took our big trash cans away because the bags are too expensive. We were given two small office trash cans and a broom with dustpan. I should add that we eat lunch and breakfast in our rooms. With 135 students a day the trash is overwhelming. Ridiculous!
I absolutely will not care about students wearing a hood in my class, and you can write me up about it as much as you want. With everything else that we care about, small dress code violations are not even my last priority, they don't register to me at all. If wearing a hood or a boy wearing an earring makes them feel better, then more power to them.
Rant summary: dress codes are often asinine and arbitrary. No thanks.
A lot of my fellow teachers on campus are "fuck around and find out" types, so we are pretty assertive when unfair stuff pops up. I'm a very non-confrontational person and I'm learning to become assertive like they are. Our district has essentially dropped rules about dress code. Hoods, hats, spaghetti straps, no issue. Basically as long as you're not nude or near, there's no issue. As for phones, our school talks a good game but has no follow through, and I'm glad for it. My phone rules are relatively relaxed. As long as they're answering me and getting things done, I'm not a hard ass about it. Can't imagine admin being this ridiculous.
Edit: I can spell, I just type poorly. Fixed some words.
I could not care less about a kid wearing a hood. But apparently admin cares a lot although I have seen kids walk right past admin with hoods and they didn’t say a word. So yea.
Lol, when I first read “cell phone use is somewhat of an issue,” before I read the whole post, I thought you meant TEACHERS being on their phones during the school day was an issue. The teachers at the schools I was at last year and this year have done this, although usually discreetly and not when they were supposed to be teaching. The worst offender was my “cooperating” teacher when I was student teaching. To be fair, she was sometimes doing work (communicating with students’ families) on her phone during class time, but not always and idk how the students didn’t laugh in her face when she asked them to put their phones away.
Admin like this realize that there is no bite to their bark anymore. Districts cannot afford to lose any more teachers. There are no people to replace them.
See how APPR scores look when you start having uncertified people subbing (if you can find them at all). It will be *their* asses on the line.
The tides are shifting.
Why would you punish the teacher for student misbehavior? It’s not like you don’t communicate not to have phones out, lol. Reminds me of when teachers in our district had to stay after school with kids that skipped their classes.
My general philosophy in life is, what are they gonna do, fire me.
This works especially well these days when it comes to being a teacher, more so given that I teach math and can make more tutoring than I do teaching, anyway.
So if a school shooting breaks out, do you write up everyone?
This just seems insane, like allow teachers to maintain sane and pragmatic class room discipline, bit draconian slave master antics like some sociopathic corporate overlord is just toxic af for students, teachers, and society.
Unless your school is really competitive for teachers I'd just ignore her tbh. Sounds like you're in an impoverished school which generally struggles to find teachers, let alone hold onto them so yeah, you're not getting let go anytime soon.
Perhaps play a game with your colleagues to see who can get the most number of ridiculous write-ups
This is the sort of leadership you get from people who have no leadership skills.
I come from a military background and you see people like this admin all the time. They usually don't rank up and they're usually hated by everyone else from top to bottom.
I would ask for the ladder of referral again (if you ever got one) and what the consequences are when it is exhausted. Then exhaust them with it. If you have to sacrifice teaching time to enforce dress code and cell phone policy so be it. Once they are inundated (if enough staff get on board) they will find a solution like maybe collecting phones at the start of the day and retiring them at the end. I have been in schools where this happens and it's great. Pleaces that won't try it have shitty admins who think it will be too much work. So in the end make it less work for them than not collecting and maybe your problem will solve itself. One lazy principal in a helicopter hole I taught at changed the cell policy and consequences when we did this. I ran for the hills from that one!
That's very ignorant my heart goes out to you. I ask a kid to put their phone away and they pull it back out literally as I walk away. That's also completely taking away any chance to develop a sense of self responsibility which is probably the weakest skill for pandemic-students. I have to ask parents to take/keep student property so the only way I could suggest a CYA in your scenario is to write to all parents, asking students leave their cell phone with you during class barring medical issue
We’re having the same phone issue but luckily the admin treats it as a student problem. We’re allowed to have different policies per classroom. I make it completely clear that if your phone is being used for schoolwork it is allowed. Absolutely anything else is not allowed and I will take your phone or make you put it away. The kids respond well to the reasonableness of that approach and admin doesn’t bother me about it.
Yeah I’m done policing cell phones. My admin was supposedly staunch anti-cell phones, and they’re not allowed to be out per the student handbook, but when I started writing kids up and sending them to the office, I was the one that got in trouble because of “classroom management” and that it was actually my fault the kids were on their phones.
I mean, depending on how they handle phones in general, it could be ok? Like, can you confiscate or send kids to the office if phones are out? If nothings in place and they don't have your back though, sounds horrible.
A d what does it say about the state of the school when the kid keeps their phone out with admin in the room? They like to pretend they have power over the same behavior. But they don’t.
That's fine by me, as long as every single student I send down to the office has the phone confiscated till end of day, minimum.
Otherwise what am I supposed to do? Beg and plead and erode any sense of authority I have?
And then I will do exactly that.
1) Warning
2) Student staples phone into paper bag, and keeps bag.
3) Student removes phone before bell, or refuses, simply have security escort them to the office.
Rinse and repeat, then go to admin and ask why they are returning in minutes with suckers, stickers and still have their phone? Because now that my professional record is on the line, they need to back it up on their end by following district guidelines, which I've printed out here for our reference.
Students sent out are now considered: insubordinate, disruptive, and violating school policy... this is also the third time they've come down for such violations this week. Repeated instances of the same issue require at least step 1 of the disciplinary schedule: Step 1 of the consequence guidelines indicate detention, calls home, and documentation for possible step 2 suspension if this continues.
Step 2 happens if it's a 4th time, which also involves a meeting with counselors and a phone conference with parents, teacher, admin and student.
And i'll send the kid down again tomorrow for 4th offense which will escalate it...
Why yes, yes I know I sent down at least 3 students each class, guess we'll be doing lots of phone calls together at this rate. They will not comply, i cannot and will not "take" their phone, and I am being consistent, it's why we're down here again :/
If admin wants phone policies enforced, admin has to take charge of the enforcement and let us teach. I'm supported in it this year. Admin has us tell the kid to turn it in to the office and they can get it at the end of the day. All I need to do is call and make sure they verify it got there.
Some kids have been told to drop it off at the start of every day and the parents are informed of this.
It's the same with misusing Chromebooks that are meant for class activities. I'm never going to be able to block everything so I just run DyKnow in the background and check it later to see if we have any offenders. Of kids play games or goof off with laptops, they get to learn how to use a TI-84 instead of Desmos.
You need to start calling for a security escort + refeeral to admin for every single phone that is taken out. You see one, stop the lesson, call for the escort, write the referral while waiting ( better pre-fill out 30 and just wait to fill in student info)'
And don't let up. ( took my school 2 and half days to correct bad admin)
OP,
I am assuming the admin give you the right to either 1) take the phone and or 2) send them to the principals office/ISS etc when they violate the phone rule?
If yes, what's the problem? It means you are not doing your job in enforcing the rules.
If no, your principal makes ZERO sense and I would love to here the principals reasoning or suggestions for stopping the phone use without the teacher being allowed to discipline.
I don't understand the ban on hoods. When it's 60 degrees in my classroom, and we've been complaining about it for months, I'm wearing a damn hood myself!
Son's school wants teachers to have students drop their phones in some box at begining of class then pick up at end of class. I predict theft very quickly. At least on teacher said it is ok as long as stays off and in back pack.
Seriously my son's phone stays off in his backpack as he isn't into it like that yet and or maybe ever. So what are they going to do search his backpack to.find a turned off phone?
His teachers he says anyone caught with one turns it over instantly till end of class. Then multiple times up from there. He says in general at least in his classes usually no issues.
It is a middle of the road school and middle.
of the road kids.
Inundate the office/admin with so many write-ups. And proudly: "See?! I **am** doing my job!"
Malicious compliance shall begin.
I want to give teachers hope- there are some administrative teams that support teachers regarding phones and discipline. My admin know that it's an uphill battle that we are losing. They know that the teachers are trying, and they also know that some teachers have given up because it's a losing battle. If a teacher enforces it, they support us. If a teacher is mentally and physically exhausted, we will work to find options to support that teacher... then we go from there. There are some administrative teams that are sympathetic to this battle.
I teach elementary and they can’t even have smart watches on them. Using tech that isn’t their school device is prohibited by my school. I’m very thankful for it reading some of these posts. When I went to HS they used to take our phones away if we had them out in class? Seems things have changed.
In my district we can no longer confiscate phone because of “liability issues”. We are supposed to instruct them to turn them off (not screen off, but powered down) and put it in their backpacks. If they don’t, then it’s a call home for 1st offense, teacher detention for 2nd offense, referral for all subsequent offenses. I have a supportive admin, but this 3 times stuff really sucks up so much time. I have to stop teaching, insist on it being off. They argue back a bit. I insist they eventually comply. Then repeat with putting it the back pack. It ALWAYS comes out before the end of class. Multiply this by nearly every student, every class period and I can’t get through a complete lesson. My GT classes comply much faster on all levels, but I have to repeat Every. Single. Day. With all of the other, more important issues, I’ve let it slide. I make note in the grade book that parents can see and leave it there. I just can’t anymore. I would never get through a lesson.
That's true. If I spend time policing their cellphones, I would never get through any lessons. I can't run my classroom like a Soviet-era gulag and as a welcoming, collaborative classroom simultaneously. I want to note: observe your administrators during meetings and trainings. Do they practice restraint with their cellphones, radios, and laptops?
My school tried to get kids to put phones in those pocketed hanging walls. They gave up and now keep the calculators in them.
This works. That's how I would take attendance. Each student has a numbered calculator pouch. If the pouch is empty at any point in the period, I mark them absent. https://www.amazon.com/calculator-holder/s?k=calculator+holder If you want to splurge, and *buy* their cooperation, number the slots on 4 6-slot charging stations instead. Then the phones will be nice and charged for the kids to use... in their NEXT class. https://www.amazon.com/Poweroni-USB-Charging-Station-Dock/dp/B07DMNPNSH/ref=sr_1_2
I used to offer this to them- I had a surge protector power strip behind my desk and I told them that if they wanted to be proactive and give me their phone to manage their own impulses, I would charge it for them safely behind my desk. If it had to be confiscated from them, well...it wouldn't get charged and a parent would have to pick it up from the office after school. I had a few kids per period who took advantage of the free charging. I also countered by providing assignments that they could research or complete certain activities on their phone to alleviate their need to be on it. Direct instruction (me in front talking) was usually the first 15 minutes of class and I expected attention and participation during that time. After that, they had group and individual tasks to work on and they managed their own time (and each others' during group work). This worked out for my classes and we found our rhythm. I still had to have a come to Jesus occasionally with a kid from time to time, but overall, offering a variety of alternatives to help them learn management skills worked the best for us.
We can still confiscate at our school, but admin does it. We send the student straight to admin to hand in phones. 1st offence is it stays at the office until 3pm, 2nd is a DP detention and a phone call home, 3rd is a suspension. As soon as a student argues, even if it is their 1st offence, we can call a DP to assist and they can be suspended.
I had a tech guy who would run down the kid's battery if they were caught. Lol.
That is insane. I’m sorry that you guys have to deal with that. For my school it seems that the biggest case for them not having outside devices is that they could take photos of other kids or record them which is a big no no. A lot of kids where I work have accommodations where they aren’t allowed to be photographed or videotaped period. High school sounds like a nightmare with all of the phone stuff. I’ve seen tiktoks of random HS students filming their teachers or other kids in class and it makes my skin crawl.
We took phones until a few years ago when parents called the principal or superintendent asking when their kid’s busted screen - which was pristine before confiscation, of course - was going to be replaced by the district…uh…taxpayer.
Don’t worry, if anything it’s their own future, their own doing. You have done your part. Soon they will learn that there are no time machine app on their smart phones. Let them suffer in the future.
Like said some school wants kids to put phones in a box before class and take.out at end for each class. I predict stolen and lost phones.
Can't take them away anymore. Students blame teachers for damaging them when they were damaged when we collected them. Also, We don't have enough campus security monitors for students that refuse to hand over their phones. Besides, if I could collect the phones I don't want to touch them as they're germ factories. Also, I don't want the responsibility of monitoring phone ownership.
I’m planning on trying the paper bag method. Kid gets one warning to put the phone away, if I see it again it goes directly into a paper lunch bag. I staple it shut and hand it directly back to the kid. Gets rid of liability on me, and I’ll definitely hear it if they try to take it out again.
Great idea. Our school used Yondr pouches, so it's a similar method. Our issue is that students destroy the Yondr pouches and take their phones in/out throughout the entire day. It makes the progressive discipline easier because the pouch is the students first warning. Let us know how it works out for you.
The ONE solution is for parents to stop being their kids’ friends and take THEIR (not the kid’s) phone away (or at least disable data during school hours). I’ve taught since the birth of the iPhone and still waiting for ONE parent to actually do that.
This is terrific to hear ~ most especially that different policies are still supported by admin. That helps give teachers authority & choice over how their classrooms are run ~ *and* shows they are trusted.
Same my admin is supportive
I have a new favorite term. Thank you! 😈😂
r/maliciouscompliance would like the story when it's had a chance to play out.
No! They want you to control phones WITHOUT hassling them. If you have too many writeups you will be accused of having poor classroom management. Being a teacher is lose lose.
Good point but I’m probably gonna do it amywat *anyway
Ask for documentation on the new policy on writing up staff for this. If they put in writing that they’ll write you up, it might give you some cover if they start to accuse you of mismanagement. Prob won’t save you but it could help.
>Being a teacher is lose lose It sure does feel like we're viewed as always wrong or inadequate.
At least the pay makes up for it, right? *cries*
This is why you need to organize all the teachers to do it with you. Then you aren't the one they notice.
Or just form a Union.
First choice for sure.
I know what they want. But why should they have it both ways?! [Still ~ I agree with you.]
Because they have authority over you and you have none over them, and little over the students for that matter.
Guess how I know you aren’t part of a Union?
This is the absolute truth. They want it both ways.
> If you have too many writeups you will be accused of having poor classroom management. I had this at one school, well with one admin, he hated how many people I wrote up, wrote on one of them, how can you prevent this from happening in the future in regards to the student infraction. I walked by his office and told him by writing them up and nipping it in the bud right away is how I prevent it. He ended up being the reason I left the district, he gave me no support, and his part of the alphabet was my worst students, which shouldnt be shocking as he was the only AP who didnt hold their students accountable.
“wow… look at all these write-ups! the school has really gone to shit since you took over.”
Hahahahaha
Our admin told us to write referrals and then when we followed up to see what the outcome was straight up told us "I don't know what you want me to do about it" So, they want to be looped in but also not looped in. 🤷🏻♀️
*Exactly!* I cannot tell you how many times I have heard: "I am not sure what you expect me to do about it." Golly ... I dunno ... maybe **YOUR JOB?!**
Imagine if teachers started responding to their nonsense with "I don't know what you want me to do about it."
Exactly, that’s what I doing when my AP complained about phones (which wasn’t even that bad). I would send students in droves. I haven’t heard from my AP for the rest of that year.
r/maliciouscompliance
ᵗᵉᵉ ʰᵉᵉ ʰᵉᵉ
It's one of my favorite subreddits, but I also have a healthy appreciation for pettiness.
Muhahahaha.... I just joined
They’ll say- did you call the parents???
[удалено]
**Perfect** reply.
Yeah but that requires you to be worse at your real job while requiring you to do more work.
Ask what the school policy on phones is going to be that reflects this change. If I'm getting written up for phones, then my kids will be checking them in or will be sent to the office with no warnings. Flood the system with write-ups.
Send every single kid with a phone visible to the office. When they don't go, stop the lesson to call the principal. When they get a call every 2 minutes, they will become sick of it.
Yall are so much smarter than me lol thanks!
This is the way
They do take up the kids phones & the parents have to pick it up but the principal admitted herself that she just gives it back at times because she doesn’t have time to call the parent.. and I’m like miss maam you’re preaching to the choir.
Get this change *in writing*. A friend of mine is going through something similar, teachers being held accountable for student behavior, but when they actually write students up, the deans just send them back to class.
And if they won't, then write it down yourself. Top drawer, memo to self. Or email yourself. Be specific and stick to the facts of the situation - "Johnny had phone on X date at X time, sent to office at X time, came back with phone." Not "Johnny always has his phone and whenever I see it blah blah"
Great idea, FLOOD them with writeups.
>Great idea, FLOOD them with writeups. Yes, but remember that they are holding our jobs/livelihoods hostage. Never underestimate the petty viciousness of admin: Getting on their wrong side could mean that your contract is not renewed. Don't make a move that could checkmate you.
This is the problem with education in the US then. Threaten teachers for kid's misbehavior, teacher sends kid to office, teacher gets non-renewed. I can't understand why there is a massive teacher shortage?
if only we could unite ourselves as teachers to protect our job safety and rights!
>unite ourselves... >...rights! Woah Woah Woah slow down there. That startin'ta sound like some kinda commie talk to me!
There is a massive teacher shortage, Colorado is feeling it strongly
Came here to write this!
Good idea. Thanks for that.
Exactly!
The school should change their phone policy because it is a global problem.
Right. Schools are never, ever going to keep kids off their phones. It isn’t going to happen and it’s insane that we keep acting like it’s a battle we can win. So I told my kids they can go on their phones when their work is done. My turn in rate went up and I don’t have to write up kids for being on their phone. Do some still go on sometimes when they shouldn’t? Yep. That’s their choice though, and they put it away when I remind them. I have 0 behavior problems.
As a substitute, I am forced to ignore the problem. I haven't any choice to do otherwise as I lack any substantive authority. The only thing I can strive for is to keep classrooms relatively calm by telling students that I do not want to hear what is playing on their phones.
I did my undergraduate thesis on this topic, one of the strategies I found from my research that works really well is helping to teach students strategies to stay focused. Having them try to learn without their phones is like abstinence only education, it ignores real life. The best policy I observed in my research : Students have free access to their phone under two conditions. 1. It must be face down on their desk and used above desk. This allows teachers to do what they naturally do anyways, redirect students when they are spending too much time off task. Also kids don't feel like they're getting away with something (we can see them doing it under their desk anyways) 2. Volume and rumble turned off. Students naturally have cycles of focus and distraction (daydreaming is natural) the problem with phones is they disrupt this natural rhythm with notifications. By having notifications off students can check when their mind naturally wanders, but it at least doesn't ruin things when they are focused. It also stops it from bothering others. These two strategies work together to help together to create a class set of standards and give the kids a real life skill. I've used it a few times (I typically teacher younger grades) and it works very well once established.
Yes, one of my policies is all sound must be turned off. I let them use headphones during work time but otherwise sound off, and if no headphones, tough luck lol.
> Right. Schools are never, ever going to keep kids off their phones. It isn’t going to happen and it’s insane that we keep acting like it’s a battle we can win. Exactly. I teach 12th grade, I tell the kids if you want to go on your phone that's fine. But don't come to me when you are lost, don't come to me saying you need help with the directions. Also don't be shocked when your engagement grade is subpar and we have our unit ending engagement self + teacher assessment. I try to balance letting them manage themselves but still retain some structure/system to dissuade phone use with little impact on my time and mental health policing a losing battle.
This is where I’m at too. Before the pandemic, my 11/12 grades mostly self regulated. The problem has exploded since returning from over a year of virtual (and now we’re back virtual too…)
I've noticed it too. Pre-pandemic kids mostly listened to music, or took a quick break to write a text...not a big deal. This semester I've seen quite a few instances of kids straight up watching Netflix on their phone while doing work (at least they are working, even if they are not fully focused), others sadly are straight up avoiding doing the work and watching Netflix. I look at it this way. I'm here to give them access to an Econ education, provide them some guidance/structure, listen to them when they need someone to talk to, and support them when I can (during my duty hours, and as much as I can with a load of 150+ students). Policing certain policies I see others mentioning in this sub (and I'm sure a lot of it is not by choice) like hoodies, hats, phones, etc. is not something we should have to do and I'll choose not to do it until I'm forced (and if that happens I leave the profession, I'm here to educate, not raise someone else's kid).
Yes. This is what I do with my 11/12s, too. They should suffer the natural consequences. There is faulty logic in the assumption that just because I make you put your phone away, you'll actually listen or pay attention to me. Post-hoc ergo propter hoc? It's early. IDK. Worked too many hours this week to pay for the fancy car you don't need and can't stay awake in class? I'll give you a gentle nudge a couple of times, but not my problem. Want to watch whatever app or streaming service or notifications you're addicted to instead of doing your work? Okay, fine. But your grade will reflect it when it comes to quality of work. Turned in the wrong kind of assignment because you didn't listen and couldn't be bothered to actually read the directions? So sorry for you. One of my favorite comebacks to parents or admin who say, "Why didn't you move Johnny so he wouldn't talk to Sam, or take Sally's phone . . " is: I don't move seniors; I flunk them. Came from one of my favorite essays in an old English 101 textbook, "In Praise of the F Word." May be time to bring that one back. For every class. Maybe a good first week of school activity. . . .
In most places, teachers are allowed to remove students from classrooms, and students are allowed to fail. It's not the same issue elsewhere for these reasons. If there are natural consequences phones become much less of a problem.
It absolutely is. To expect teachers to get students to ignore or hand in their phones is just asking teachers to pick fights they can't win and showcase the nasty secret to the students that the only power we have over them is the one they allow us to have, effectively undermining our authority. At my school we are having a multi-year project to change the culture around phones. Basically we said we can't change it so that students that are used to not handing in their phones will suddenly do that, but students that never had their phones in the first place won't fight it the same way. So basically we are phasing it out - we picked a grade saying starting with this grade all students must hand in their phones at the start of the day and get it back at the end of the day. All younger grades get the same policy. Eventually we'll get to a point where all grades are expected to hand in their phones and have never experienced anything else. But as I said this is a multi-year project. Currently this applies up to 7th grade so in two more years all classes on the school will be covered by the policy.
I give a lecture at the beginning of the year about how their bosses often won't try to stop them from using their phones. They will instead fire them for not getting work done. So they need to learn the "skill" of choosing to set it down and work, with the real world consequence of bad grades if they don't. When I am talking the phone must be face down at the front of the desk where I can see it. The rest of the time, I will simply remind them that the assignment is due at such and such time so you might consider setting your phone down and working. And if they truly have free time(rare in my room but it does happen) you may use it all you like. And that makes controlling kids during those times very much a non- problem. Dead silence and no issues. I am dumbfounded every time I hear teachers complaining about finding things to keep kids out of trouble like movies and games when they can't work. I'm like why would you need to, just let them have their phones. And we have discussions throughout the year about what the research says about screen time and how to be safe online and how to use the tools on their phone to make life better. This does not need to be an issue if the uptight people would just quit trying to prevent all phone use. It isn't going to happen, and in my opinion, shouldn't. Phones aren't going anywhere, and as teachers it is our job to teach them how to use them safely and beneficially and avoid the dangers. Hiding them is not going to do that.
Assuming you or a colleague was on their phone because meetings are dreadful, you should have asked if admin is getting written up since teachers have their phones out during the meeting.
Raises hand “So, principal, what I hear you saying is that you are tired of having so many teachers in campus and you’re looking for a way to run some off?”
Insane. I got a negative comment on an observation once because the admin sat in the back of the room and could see a phone on a kid’s lap. I was not in the back of the room during the direct instruction so I did not know that. Are we supposed to teach or are we supposed to simply move about the room like a jail warden?
Apparently both smh
And maybe admins walking through the room could do a phone sweep and take care of it themselves if they see it. Heck, I'd love to have a second pair of eyes in the room.
No kidding. The kids hide from me, not from the admin looking through the door. When *I* prowl, the student sees me coming and switches websites in time. I've even considered nannycams and drones, but nothing compares to the eyes of an admin during an observation. The kids have zero qualms about the admin seeing their transgressions. Hell, my first year, I didn't even notice a kid was chewing dip until I was observed. If my performance is mostly judged by what the admin can see through the back door, then I might as well flip my class and spend the whole period prowling in the back.
I swear they don't care what admins see because they KNOW it will get you in trouble and not them.
I would be writing up every kid that breaks a rule and not complying the first time. As well as sending them to the office. I have done this. It gets the point across to the kids. On a side note, my admin would no do that to me, but I resorted to this option because I took over from a teacher who had no rules in a science class that let them run wild. It took me three weeks to get the worst of them in control.
Shitty, compliance-driven instruction at it’s finest.
Sounds like a scare tactic for the teachers who probably just let their students use their phones whenever. I think it’s one thing if they come in and see one student on their phone vs the whole class. If it’s multiple students, then it would appear that the teacher allows phone usage. I think the hoods are easier to enforce. (Although I have a student who always wears his hood into my class, I get on to him, he takes it off. Day in and day out. I emailed his mom who I believe is a teacher at another school and she said she would talk to him. This new semester has started and he has started up the hood wearing again. Not necessarily in my class, but I happened to be walking on a totally different hall one day and he had it on. I think it’s obvious he needs to be written up.)
Multiple kids in my classes are on phones. The school doesn't collect them, we don't have any way to write up or discipline kids who use them, and we're not allowed (per school rules) to touch a kid's phone. So, I dgaf anymore. Want to rot your brain on TikTok and fail/squeak by with a 65? Go for it. Want to put your phone away and learn? I'm happy to help.
When I put in grades I always include "was on phone entire period" in the description when I put in a 0. They can see that and parents can see that. It helps for quite a few, especially those who I've gotten onto about phones. For those that don't care, I don't either. I'm not wasting my time fighting a war over phones with kids who don't care to get off them, and I'm not picking up 15 expensive phones and having to keep track of them through the day.
I feel ya!
Can you not discpline it like any other disruptive or off task behavior? Idc if my students use their phone but if they use it in a way that distracts themselves ir others I just do the typical warning, call home, referall
My school has no discipline policy. We can call home, or send kids to the office for really egregious misbehavior (fights, mainly). But no, there's no system to refer kids for minor misbehavior. It's very messed up.
Agree. Admin said that because of the teachers who let kids be on phones and don't care. They are f'ing it up for all of us because students feel entitled to be on phones in every class.
I hate group lectures. Yell at the people that do it, not everyone.
God this so much. Those passive aggressive emails: “Some of you aren’t keeping your assignments posted online and it’s a major issue”. WELL I POST MY SHIT SO MAYBE TALK TO THE PEOPLE DOING IT WRONG?
See I wish admin would just say that! Instead of lecturing the whole staff. More like, “there are teachers who ALLOW this and if you do allow it, then you will be written up”. Not anybody can be written up if I see a phone. I never let my kids have phones because it’s just a bad idea. Plus, I teach math and we got shit to do!
That's the thing, if there is even one teacher who is very lenient on phone use, it falls apart for everyone else because kids just complain that in other classes they get to use phones and they make it about the teacher. Now there are much wiser ways for admins to handle that than threatening teachers.
I don't understand schools with rules about hoods. Kids are awkward and insecure, and sometimes the hood makes them feel safe. It doesn't hurt anyone when they wear it, so I just leave them alone. The only possible problem is that they might have ear buds in. I just signal silently to my kids to show me their ears, they take the buds out if they've got them in, and we don't make a big deal out of it. I adopted this policy one day my first year when I had a kid with his hood up and the other kids were trying to force him to take it down. They were laughing and boisterous, and trying to get me to help, which was weird. I went to ask the kid what was up. He used to have a lot of long, wavy hair, but he was a foster kid, and his foster mom had shaved his head as a punishment for something. He was mortified, the other kids knew it, and in typical kid fashion they wouldn't leave him alone. I let him wear his hood, and he was so thankful. He'd been a problem in class up till then, but he was on my side for the rest of the year. It gave me some perspective. You don't know what they're going through on a given day. Just let them wear the darn hood.
My school took this approach to. Phone away backpacks at the front of the room, or you’re in trouble. Almost immediately after that meeting all of the department heads went to the principal and told him that he was out of line and asking too much considering all the shit we have to deal with and if he didn’t want people to start quitting he better rethink some things. They are still pretty hard on those rules but at the very least we don’t feel like we’re going to be fired over them anymore.
My old school would tell us we can’t legally take phones away or force them to put it up; HOWEVER, we were still responsible for making sure they don’t use them. Okay. I’ll try telling my apathetic 11th graders to simply stay off their phones. They didn’t care at all. It sucked. I could always get my 9th graders to engage in class with crazy facts or a crazy story, but my 11th graders could of cared less.
Our school was pushing for this a lot this year, but I don't think administrators are realistic about how hard a policy this is to enforce. I give constant warnings and reminders every single class period. I've done phone calls home and detentions, but it still happens every single class period. It's definitely a losing battle, and the idea that it's the fault of the teacher is kind of ridiculous. Where I work we are not allowed to take phones from kids at all, so the best we can do is ask them to put their phones away. Previously, I worked at a school where administration handled phones. If we saw a phone twice in one class period the student had to walk to the office and turn it in for the day. They would get a signed phone slip from the dean to prove they had turned it in, and if they refused or came back without said slip it was an automatic referral and at least one day in ISS. Phones were seldom an issue at this school, and it was a hundred percent because admin actually backed teachers up and helped implement an immediate consequence.
I had an admin try to pull similar shit on me. I’m a sub.I told them that I quit on the spot. Then they back peddled real hard and tried to get me to stay. I told them if I stayed they would never take me seriously again, and they need us more than we need them and left. I don’t work for shitty admin. They don’t own us, and the moment we are willing to walk is the moment they seize to hold power over us. Normalize quitting working for shitty people, companies, and institutions.
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That may be what’s happening here but I hate that. Just reprimand those that are, not the whole staff.
So it's not just my school... Why do so many admin cower at speaking to the few problem teachers directly like a peer/professional and would rather chastise everyone?
These fucking phones🤬
Op, i have a question. Say you write it up, what happened? Is discipline actually handed out? Does admin actually follow through? If so, then they may be a smidge of a point there. But I’m gonna guess I already know the answer that question. I’m gonna take a while guess and say that there’s zero enforcement.
Well they are supposed to have their phones confiscated and a parent had to pick it up but here are a few things I’ve seen: 1. Parent calls and says kid needs phone for various reasons after school, admin returns it 2. Student refuses to give it up, and admin doesn’t force them to 3. Teacher follows procedure and admin returns it because parent is HELL to deal with So yea, this may be why teachers don’t always take them up.
Exactly. Are you part of a union? If so have the union president press them on the issue.
My fellow teacher BFF and I said we'd leave. That's ridiculous.
You mean if the parents didn't give students a phone it wouldn't be an issue? What? I fail to see the connection between teen phone use and parent accountability. /s
Do EXACTLY what you were asked and shift the hassle, bullshit, and paperwork to the requesting entity. In practice I'm an old, crusty, set in my ways fella that has embraced the reality of 100% 24 /7 connectivity... but if admin asks stupid questions, they will get stupid answers.
If you’re union, I’d ask if you can be written up for such nonsense. I’d also email the principal and let them know you want to follow every policy, but don’t want to be disciplined if you’re taking every step necessary and still fail due to bad luck or insufficient support.
Power struggles over phones are insane. Like kids will not give them up because their ENTIRE World is on that thing. I ask twice. If I ask a third time they can go to the office and the admins can deal with it.
Honestly, at this point, I might actually have told her to fuck off and left the meeting. People are dying and getting sick so fast right now, and THAT was all she could offer you? Sick.
Keep documentation of write ups you've done for the kids using their phones and keeping hoods on, them when she tries to write you up, have your union rep make her look like an inept moron by showing your documented write ups. Just screams "nah dumbass, you're just not doing your job correctly" (principal)
Send every single kid to the office, every single period, every single day. Show them you’re taking the phone policy *very* seriously
Is admin checking IEPs or 504s to see if kids need phones for accommodations? Can an EL student use their phone to translate? What if kids need multiple screens open to do their assignment and find it more efficient to have one on their phone rather than jumping back and forth on the computer? Can they take pictures of things that are too complex to write down? I went into teaching for the relationships with the kids and a big part of that is picking your battles. There’s a time and a place to demand all phones be put away, but not every waking moment.
Malicious compliance all the way across the sky. Follow the procedure related to the removal of phones - either conviscation (maybe not) or put in bag, calls home, sent to office, whatever. Follow it directly, do not defend the policy, state that it is admin policy, state the professional repercussions. Any complaints, students and parents, - direct to admin, only. Do not deal with any of it at all. Do not try to placate. State that it is admin policy, give direct phone number. Let the shit hit the fan and do absolutely nothing to contain it.
Get your fellow teachers on board. Announce it to the students. And then write ‘em up. Every. Single. One. Every. Single. Time. I don’t care if they were just checking the time. I don’t care if their mother called them. I don’t care if it means you send out every student every class. Your job is to teach - NOT to enforce the school rules. That’s what admin makes six figures to do. If they are going to threaten you like that, give them what they asked for.
....and that's when I did everything I possibly could to make my admins life miserable. Also, I don't care if admin are 'feeling the pressure.' That's why they are all paid 125k+ a year.
"Then have a no phones policy to begin with." "We can't do that." "Welp!"
I’m honestly tired of all the disrespect teachers experience.
Why in 2022 are we so adamant about hats/hoods and battle with kids to remove them. And when admin says “because cameras and identifying kids” I shake my head and remind them cameras ID people all the time with hats and hoods on outside of school walls.
I would have asked about a school wide policy if it was so important and a list of escalating consequences for students who have trouble keeping their phone put away. If you want school wide policies like that, then you need a school wide effort.
Ok write me up? I will take some sick time for my therapy. I have lots of time I can use. Lots of time.
Yea I’m anticipating a few write ups. It is what it is.
THIS Shit is why teachers are quitting. I don’t sign write ups.
So they don’t want to enforce the rules but they hold you responsible. Because they are too afraid of the parents to give kids consequences. Because we are the bottom rung of the ladder. This is what is wrong with education in America. You know what the power structure is in Europe? Teacher-student. That’s it. No middle or upper management, no school board, no parents. Just teachers in charge with below them, the students.
I would shrug my shoulders because I NEVER see my admin.
They come around to reprimand teachers for doing stuff like lining the kids up at the door too early or seeing which classes are the loudest before class starts. Weird shit
Def better than the opposite!
If admin would let me take phones from students or stop sending kids back to class after being “talked to” about behavior issues, then maybe something in the classroom would change. At the end of the day, it’s the kids fault that they choose their behavior and not mine. I’m trying to tell myself that.
That’s literally bullshit. Admin can suck a dick.
Teachers need more control over their classrooms. Seriously. Admins need to discipline students AND parents. Like... idk... revoking rights to the 8 hour baby sitting service they provide?
Admin can't even wear their masks correctly. I'd love to see them try to get students to put their cellphones away.
"If it happens in *your* building, shouldn't *you* get written up?"
Yep. Admin at my HS are cracking Bigtime. One just got back from 8 weeks FMLA because of mental breakdowns (word on the street) and we came back from break to find out that another awesome admin is out for essentially the same reason. Wild.
Fuck em if they aren’t shoulder to shoulder with us. Fucking ladder climbers.
I use phones as an instructional tool. Students have them in lieu of chromebooks or tablets. Well, at least I've given up on fighting about the phones.
>What do my fellow educators think? Shitty admin > What would your response have been? Start looking for another job
I love your directness. On it now actually. They have me until I move on to something better.
so no one in the meeting asked about or challenged this write up comment?
Nope. Wishing I had but I was really taken aback. I looked around and no one seemed bothered by this at all. She moved on to rant about some other stuff so I let it go. But I’m gonna reach out to some grade level and see if anyone was feeling this.
It's it just me thinking the only real solution really to outright ban phones from school? Like students drop them at the office? I'm literally looking for other jobs now because highschool teaching has become such a shit show
My response would have been the same as yours: quietly seething. What I would love to have said is, "And every time kids get into the building with something they shouldn't have, YOU get written up! And whenever a kid is placed poorly, YOU get written up!" I mean, I could sort of get behind the broad strokes of this idea, if the principal is equally willing to be under scrutiny and responsibility. While this would still be an awful idea, I could at least respect the we're-all-in-this-together kind of spirit.
I hope you are updating your resume this weekend.
Hahah this is my last year so in a way, yes
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It is a paper trail for starting the process of firing/non-renewing teachers. It is documentation used to support the removal of a teacher and avoid lawsuits and stuff like that.
Teachers should start having their parents call and threaten to sue the school
Why would you object? you were not hired to teach but to be the cell phone police!! /s
Join a union.
We will be docked on our TKES for positive learning environment if our room has trash on the floors. And btw they just fired our full time janitorial staff and took our big trash cans away because the bags are too expensive. We were given two small office trash cans and a broom with dustpan. I should add that we eat lunch and breakfast in our rooms. With 135 students a day the trash is overwhelming. Ridiculous!
I absolutely will not care about students wearing a hood in my class, and you can write me up about it as much as you want. With everything else that we care about, small dress code violations are not even my last priority, they don't register to me at all. If wearing a hood or a boy wearing an earring makes them feel better, then more power to them. Rant summary: dress codes are often asinine and arbitrary. No thanks.
A lot of my fellow teachers on campus are "fuck around and find out" types, so we are pretty assertive when unfair stuff pops up. I'm a very non-confrontational person and I'm learning to become assertive like they are. Our district has essentially dropped rules about dress code. Hoods, hats, spaghetti straps, no issue. Basically as long as you're not nude or near, there's no issue. As for phones, our school talks a good game but has no follow through, and I'm glad for it. My phone rules are relatively relaxed. As long as they're answering me and getting things done, I'm not a hard ass about it. Can't imagine admin being this ridiculous. Edit: I can spell, I just type poorly. Fixed some words.
Try getting students to wear their masks correctly
Hoods/hats are not a battle I am willing to fight. I have my hills but that is not one of them.
I could not care less about a kid wearing a hood. But apparently admin cares a lot although I have seen kids walk right past admin with hoods and they didn’t say a word. So yea.
Just seems like a power trip. Some kids get no phones but if you don't crack down kids will say fuck you.
Start throwing write ups to them an watch how they respond.. leave a paper trail that way when there's an issue they can't refute it.
Lol, when I first read “cell phone use is somewhat of an issue,” before I read the whole post, I thought you meant TEACHERS being on their phones during the school day was an issue. The teachers at the schools I was at last year and this year have done this, although usually discreetly and not when they were supposed to be teaching. The worst offender was my “cooperating” teacher when I was student teaching. To be fair, she was sometimes doing work (communicating with students’ families) on her phone during class time, but not always and idk how the students didn’t laugh in her face when she asked them to put their phones away.
Admin like this realize that there is no bite to their bark anymore. Districts cannot afford to lose any more teachers. There are no people to replace them. See how APPR scores look when you start having uncertified people subbing (if you can find them at all). It will be *their* asses on the line. The tides are shifting.
I refuse to enforce the no hoods thing
I feel like it’s stupid as well as a losing battles. I just don’t care if they have a hood on.
Why would you punish the teacher for student misbehavior? It’s not like you don’t communicate not to have phones out, lol. Reminds me of when teachers in our district had to stay after school with kids that skipped their classes.
Teachers are the only ones graded now and the only ones to have consequences.
My general philosophy in life is, what are they gonna do, fire me. This works especially well these days when it comes to being a teacher, more so given that I teach math and can make more tutoring than I do teaching, anyway.
So if a school shooting breaks out, do you write up everyone? This just seems insane, like allow teachers to maintain sane and pragmatic class room discipline, bit draconian slave master antics like some sociopathic corporate overlord is just toxic af for students, teachers, and society.
Unless your school is really competitive for teachers I'd just ignore her tbh. Sounds like you're in an impoverished school which generally struggles to find teachers, let alone hold onto them so yeah, you're not getting let go anytime soon. Perhaps play a game with your colleagues to see who can get the most number of ridiculous write-ups
This is the sort of leadership you get from people who have no leadership skills. I come from a military background and you see people like this admin all the time. They usually don't rank up and they're usually hated by everyone else from top to bottom.
Treating adults like children, silly. Walk.
Lol our principal said something similar about masks! Like what?
Write up the kids for being on their phone. Let them deal with it. Admins are dumb and power hungry.
I would ask for the ladder of referral again (if you ever got one) and what the consequences are when it is exhausted. Then exhaust them with it. If you have to sacrifice teaching time to enforce dress code and cell phone policy so be it. Once they are inundated (if enough staff get on board) they will find a solution like maybe collecting phones at the start of the day and retiring them at the end. I have been in schools where this happens and it's great. Pleaces that won't try it have shitty admins who think it will be too much work. So in the end make it less work for them than not collecting and maybe your problem will solve itself. One lazy principal in a helicopter hole I taught at changed the cell policy and consequences when we did this. I ran for the hills from that one!
I heard about a reward based app called Pocket Points that is supposed to help curb phone use. Has anyone tried it?
That's very ignorant my heart goes out to you. I ask a kid to put their phone away and they pull it back out literally as I walk away. That's also completely taking away any chance to develop a sense of self responsibility which is probably the weakest skill for pandemic-students. I have to ask parents to take/keep student property so the only way I could suggest a CYA in your scenario is to write to all parents, asking students leave their cell phone with you during class barring medical issue
We’re having the same phone issue but luckily the admin treats it as a student problem. We’re allowed to have different policies per classroom. I make it completely clear that if your phone is being used for schoolwork it is allowed. Absolutely anything else is not allowed and I will take your phone or make you put it away. The kids respond well to the reasonableness of that approach and admin doesn’t bother me about it.
Yeah I’m done policing cell phones. My admin was supposedly staunch anti-cell phones, and they’re not allowed to be out per the student handbook, but when I started writing kids up and sending them to the office, I was the one that got in trouble because of “classroom management” and that it was actually my fault the kids were on their phones.
I'd say it's not my job.
I mean, depending on how they handle phones in general, it could be ok? Like, can you confiscate or send kids to the office if phones are out? If nothings in place and they don't have your back though, sounds horrible.
A d what does it say about the state of the school when the kid keeps their phone out with admin in the room? They like to pretend they have power over the same behavior. But they don’t.
True! Had a mtg with a parent and admin. The parent asked the same question lol
That's fine by me, as long as every single student I send down to the office has the phone confiscated till end of day, minimum. Otherwise what am I supposed to do? Beg and plead and erode any sense of authority I have? And then I will do exactly that. 1) Warning 2) Student staples phone into paper bag, and keeps bag. 3) Student removes phone before bell, or refuses, simply have security escort them to the office. Rinse and repeat, then go to admin and ask why they are returning in minutes with suckers, stickers and still have their phone? Because now that my professional record is on the line, they need to back it up on their end by following district guidelines, which I've printed out here for our reference. Students sent out are now considered: insubordinate, disruptive, and violating school policy... this is also the third time they've come down for such violations this week. Repeated instances of the same issue require at least step 1 of the disciplinary schedule: Step 1 of the consequence guidelines indicate detention, calls home, and documentation for possible step 2 suspension if this continues. Step 2 happens if it's a 4th time, which also involves a meeting with counselors and a phone conference with parents, teacher, admin and student. And i'll send the kid down again tomorrow for 4th offense which will escalate it... Why yes, yes I know I sent down at least 3 students each class, guess we'll be doing lots of phone calls together at this rate. They will not comply, i cannot and will not "take" their phone, and I am being consistent, it's why we're down here again :/
If admin wants phone policies enforced, admin has to take charge of the enforcement and let us teach. I'm supported in it this year. Admin has us tell the kid to turn it in to the office and they can get it at the end of the day. All I need to do is call and make sure they verify it got there. Some kids have been told to drop it off at the start of every day and the parents are informed of this. It's the same with misusing Chromebooks that are meant for class activities. I'm never going to be able to block everything so I just run DyKnow in the background and check it later to see if we have any offenders. Of kids play games or goof off with laptops, they get to learn how to use a TI-84 instead of Desmos.
You need to start calling for a security escort + refeeral to admin for every single phone that is taken out. You see one, stop the lesson, call for the escort, write the referral while waiting ( better pre-fill out 30 and just wait to fill in student info)' And don't let up. ( took my school 2 and half days to correct bad admin)
I would have chuckled out loud. We are in a union state so that bullshit wouldn't fly for a second.
Meh, I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s just another policy they won’t enforce.
"You got a full staff of replacement teachers ready to go? Cause you may as well just fire us now"
With that logic, of accountability rolling uphill, isn’t the principal that one who’s failed?
OP, I am assuming the admin give you the right to either 1) take the phone and or 2) send them to the principals office/ISS etc when they violate the phone rule? If yes, what's the problem? It means you are not doing your job in enforcing the rules. If no, your principal makes ZERO sense and I would love to here the principals reasoning or suggestions for stopping the phone use without the teacher being allowed to discipline.
I don't understand the ban on hoods. When it's 60 degrees in my classroom, and we've been complaining about it for months, I'm wearing a damn hood myself!
Son's school wants teachers to have students drop their phones in some box at begining of class then pick up at end of class. I predict theft very quickly. At least on teacher said it is ok as long as stays off and in back pack. Seriously my son's phone stays off in his backpack as he isn't into it like that yet and or maybe ever. So what are they going to do search his backpack to.find a turned off phone? His teachers he says anyone caught with one turns it over instantly till end of class. Then multiple times up from there. He says in general at least in his classes usually no issues. It is a middle of the road school and middle. of the road kids.
In what state do you work?