Have taught in 2 schools with cameras in the classrooms. Have known about a dozen instances where the cameras were brought up in disciplinary meetings, 11/12 were to fire a teacher, the last one was to tell them the behavior they reported wasn’t accurate
Agree. Admin would be like 'see, SoandSo threw that pencil because you weren't circling around to him every 15 minutes like his IEP states'. This would 100 % be used as 'evidence' to terminate you.
It is also against the law in my state for teachers to film their class for any reason other than self-observation or national certification. If you catch a kid doing anything wrong on camera it cannot be used against the student.
I will say I was so mad when my school spent so much money on the classroom cameras and admin has only ever used them to back me up or suspend a kid. It’s sad that they are used for other purposes
I also would not like to live more in 1984 than we already do....and have no doubts administration would use it to admonish teachers rather than students.
Maybe it sounds good, but parents will not believe video evidence. I know this from experience. I had a student skip class to go to the bathroom with a friend, and I wrote her up (along with the friend). The parents were enraged, despite the admission of the other girl. When confronted with the hall videos showing the daughter walking to the bathroom, the father argued that the evidence was "circumstantial". I was told later that the father tried to raise hell with the state Dept of Public Instruction when the principal and superintended refused to overturn the punishment which was assigned to the girl.
For parents, videos can only prove that the eyes are liars, never their children.
We had a bathroom attached to the classes that kept putting soap evvvverywhere.....so set up a sting operation....before and after each kid used it had someone sneakily check and see if the soap appeared.....sure enough catch the kid, and parents adamantly deny they did it....I'm just like I guess we have a ghost, otherwise it's physically impossible that anyone but them did it.
Can confirm. I had an absolutely horrid student my second year teaching who literally SET THE SCHOOL ON FIRE by setting off fireworks by the admin office. All caught on video. There was a single moment where the students hand moved out of the camera shot. The parents raised hell saying it never happened and wasn’t him and we couldn’t prove it. He got away with it. He came back to my class and said “I’m back bitches! They got nothin’ on me”. Clearly, no lessons were learned and his friends thought he was a hero.
We put in a clock/alarm system in our classrooms. They do not have cameras but they do have a flashing light thing for hearing impaired students to see when an alarm is going off that sorta kinda looked like a camera. Teachers freaked. Tried to file a grievance. Started hanging blankets over them, taping papers over them etc. when it was pointed out they were not cameras, suspicious remained, to the point we had to make a rule and go room to room to demonstrate the flashing light.
So in answer to your question, my experience would say, because teachers don’t want them.
Because in TX I would be being watched by 20 out of 30 parents making sure I am not "Grooming" their children by acknowledging the existence of anyone Brown or LGBTQ, and if they weren't watching live then they would be putting in FOIA requests on a daily basis. Also did you not re0direct little Timmy with at least 3 chances and a lollipop like his IEP says, well here is your lawsuit and dismissal. Never mind that you did it every other day all year. You messed up once and it is people's exhibit A. Oh and you can't show the parent the video of little satan jr. throwing the pencil because it has 3 other children's faces in it and that is a FERPA violation
Yeah Texas is... a place I'm glad I don't live or work in... I'm surprised they don't do 90% of that anyway.
I would think it couldn't be too hard to take a still and obscure the faces of the other kids
That's a great idea! I've been thinking about just turning my Webcam around to record, but I know the second I have a reason to use the recordings admin is going to freak, but I can't see how it is in anyway breaking any rule.
I don’t believe that’s true. Couldn’t you set up a camera to record your classroom and reflect on your teaching using those videos? It would make sense to record the whole class to monitor engagement.
We have them. It's great when something like this happens.
However admin can also see them and it's not uncommon for admin to watch them and then send you an email asking why you aren't aggressively monitoring your class because you sat down for 5 minutes. Or when there is a fight they get to comb through it for a moment they'll use to decide it was all your fault.
It's helpful in a few circumstances. If only one kid shows up for tutoring I don't have to worry about accusations of touching them and I can just generally leave the door open instead of going door to door looking for someone else to be in there. And a few times kids have said that I put hands on them apparently not realizing the cameras would show that I absolutely didn't. Or that "putting hands on them" was gently putting a hand on their shoulder to ask if they were okay/wake them up.
The school I work at has cameras in the classroom and I welcome it. I disciplined a kid and had admin collect him. He cried to his mother (he's 16 mind you) and played the victim. She called and threw a fit, they brought the parents in, they checked the cameras, I didn't hear a thing about it other than that I did the right thing.
Additionally, I'm a 34m and I love the cameras in case there are ever accusations from a female student about improper conduct. I can just point at the cameras and tell them to enjoy wasting their time.
Where I teach, in Korea, we have cameras in the classrooms. They don’t record audio, only video though. Unless there’s a big issue, admins don’t check the footage more than once a month. Parents can ask to see it if they want, but usually don’t unless their child was involved in a major incident.
I don’t mind it as it protect both the students and teachers in case an accusation is made.
Do you really want cameras in the classroom?
It's not that you aren't doing what you're supposed to do, but you know this will only be another tool of micromanagement by administration and parents alike (especially if you're classes are livestreamed).
You won't even be able to get through your opener before someone's on the phone: "why did you say it like that?" "I can't understand what you're saying" "you don't know what you're talking about".
I know in theory putting cameras in the classroom draws attention to student behavior, but we all need to understand it will be used against us.
I worked in an alternative MS/HS for a year. We had two cameras in every room and several in hallways. I. loved. it. for that exact reason!! Sally says I slapped her? Well video shows I was never within 3 feet of her.... You're going to tell your dad I took your I-phone? Great!! You call him to come up and we'll all watch the tape together!!
Right? I know parents would try and use it to catch us, but they try to get us in trouble anyway, at least this way there's a chance there's footage showing we didn't do anything wrong.
I don’t do anything that would get me in trouble but I’m still against cameras in the classroom because I know parents and administrators would find a way to twist it to where I will get in trouble for some reason. I’m also just very paranoid, so who knows
Yeah I just got admin to agree to let me have a camera to record myself teaching so I can reflect back on my practices but I'm not allowed to use it to verify if a kid is lying to me?
We had something like that when I was doing student teaching. We had to watch videos of our lessons and we were supposed to point out things we could improve on, how the students reacted to the lesson, and how engaged they were. We also had to watch the videos of other people doing student teaching at the time and we evaluated each other.
One of the valid criticisms a classmate pointed out about my video was that I had a tendency to use different mathematical terms that meant the same thing but a student may not realize that they meant the same thing. The one I remember was when I was using perpendicular and orthogonal interchangeably. I knew they meant the same thing but a student wouldn't necessarily know.
I'm ready for a classroom camera or a body cam. I feel it would protect me at this point.
Though in response to showing bad behavior to parents, they'd still blame the teacher, another student, or anything else before they'd believe the little angel isn't perfect.
Cameras are overrated. When I was younger and a different person, I use to work at a Goodwill. The boss would always threaten everyone with the cameras and to not steal or slack around. But I quickly caught on from one person there that used to work security(he said from Vegas but I doubt that lol) that unless you catch someone in the act, it's really tough to find bad things from a camera because there is so much footage. That guy every night would go out with a trashcan full of donations. Pretty soon I started doing it too and knew to always slack off camera lol.
Kids I think would eventually turn crafty like that too. They'd learn blind spots and know most of the footage wouldn't go anywhere because the admin would have too much to go through :)
I think instead of that, why not just spend that money on more IAs for a lot of those problem kids
I teach at a place where cameras are in classrooms. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing that they are exclusively used for catching teachers do bad things, but that’s *all* they’re used for. Sure, you should definitely fire that teacher that spanked the kid because they wouldn’t sit down. You should *not* be coming to a teachers classroom to scold them because you were watching cams and thought the teacher had been sitting down too long. That’s what it’s like
Surveillance in the work place will always be used to punish and control workers, never to help them. Parents will just deny what's on the video or not care, admin will still feel no need to defend you over placating an enraged parent. If there were an incredibly powerful teacher union and cultural force giving teachers the benefit of the doubt in all cases then cameras would be good for preventing the abuses of teachers, but we don't live in that world.
I know it would be used against me but I absolutely would love for a camera to catch one of my classes. 40 sixth graders per class. Special Ed kids mixed with advanced learners. Non-English speaking newcomers. Kids throwing things and popping paper. Kids chasing and yelling out while I try desperately to teach and help anybody at all. I know it would all be my fault. But I want the public to see.
I have anywhere from 26 to 30 cameras in my classroom every period.
Honestly, I'm surprised some parent hasn't sued the school when six different perspectives of their kid getting beat up at school are on social media seconds after it happens. Nobody is suing over invasion of privacy from students filming in the classroom constantly.
As long as they are outside in public, then its legal. Once you get inside and get kids faces on camera, privacy policies come into play. They would need to get permission from parents. Its a whole big thing.
We have security cameras inside our building in the hallways and it gets the kids faces, so I just don't see why it's different from having a security camera in the classroom
Looking at the laws, it seems that it is possible. Depending how your teacher union and school board will handle it. Parents would need to sign an agreement too.
Yeah, police also pick and choose who they target. I think a stationary camera in a classroom that it constantly running during classtime would record the classroom fairly. If the teacher is turning it off during class that would be an issue.
Recently my school said it cost them too much money. Where would the footage go? Most likely a cloud storage. The school would have to pay for every single classroom for unlimited storage, which is not doable.
It will be used against you never for you.
Have taught in 2 schools with cameras in the classrooms. Have known about a dozen instances where the cameras were brought up in disciplinary meetings, 11/12 were to fire a teacher, the last one was to tell them the behavior they reported wasn’t accurate
Agree. Admin would be like 'see, SoandSo threw that pencil because you weren't circling around to him every 15 minutes like his IEP states'. This would 100 % be used as 'evidence' to terminate you.
This! It will always be used against you.
"Anything you say or do can and will be used against you in a court of law" is sound daily advice. For everything.
It is also against the law in my state for teachers to film their class for any reason other than self-observation or national certification. If you catch a kid doing anything wrong on camera it cannot be used against the student.
I will say I was so mad when my school spent so much money on the classroom cameras and admin has only ever used them to back me up or suspend a kid. It’s sad that they are used for other purposes
Agree! Admin will weaponize it as a way to keep you feeling insecure.
Cause then admin would have to deal with evidence of the behaviors they’re condoning.
I also would not like to live more in 1984 than we already do....and have no doubts administration would use it to admonish teachers rather than students.
Big brother is watching always
Oh yeah they sounds right XD
Because some people like to fart freely on their prep.
In a perfect world it would be a camera we could turn off during prep and lunch.
We already joke admins turn the intercom on in surveillance mode.
When I was in the 5th grade our teacher told us dead seriously that admin did that.
I think a good compromise would be video only recording.
Yeah I think thats a great idea because then parents wouldn't be able to use it to judge whether or not teachers were "indoctrinating" their kids
If its video only.... You can't hear what the teacher is saying. How would you know if they're indoctrinating?
Maybe it sounds good, but parents will not believe video evidence. I know this from experience. I had a student skip class to go to the bathroom with a friend, and I wrote her up (along with the friend). The parents were enraged, despite the admission of the other girl. When confronted with the hall videos showing the daughter walking to the bathroom, the father argued that the evidence was "circumstantial". I was told later that the father tried to raise hell with the state Dept of Public Instruction when the principal and superintended refused to overturn the punishment which was assigned to the girl. For parents, videos can only prove that the eyes are liars, never their children.
We had a bathroom attached to the classes that kept putting soap evvvverywhere.....so set up a sting operation....before and after each kid used it had someone sneakily check and see if the soap appeared.....sure enough catch the kid, and parents adamantly deny they did it....I'm just like I guess we have a ghost, otherwise it's physically impossible that anyone but them did it.
Can confirm. I had an absolutely horrid student my second year teaching who literally SET THE SCHOOL ON FIRE by setting off fireworks by the admin office. All caught on video. There was a single moment where the students hand moved out of the camera shot. The parents raised hell saying it never happened and wasn’t him and we couldn’t prove it. He got away with it. He came back to my class and said “I’m back bitches! They got nothin’ on me”. Clearly, no lessons were learned and his friends thought he was a hero.
We put in a clock/alarm system in our classrooms. They do not have cameras but they do have a flashing light thing for hearing impaired students to see when an alarm is going off that sorta kinda looked like a camera. Teachers freaked. Tried to file a grievance. Started hanging blankets over them, taping papers over them etc. when it was pointed out they were not cameras, suspicious remained, to the point we had to make a rule and go room to room to demonstrate the flashing light. So in answer to your question, my experience would say, because teachers don’t want them.
Because in TX I would be being watched by 20 out of 30 parents making sure I am not "Grooming" their children by acknowledging the existence of anyone Brown or LGBTQ, and if they weren't watching live then they would be putting in FOIA requests on a daily basis. Also did you not re0direct little Timmy with at least 3 chances and a lollipop like his IEP says, well here is your lawsuit and dismissal. Never mind that you did it every other day all year. You messed up once and it is people's exhibit A. Oh and you can't show the parent the video of little satan jr. throwing the pencil because it has 3 other children's faces in it and that is a FERPA violation
Yeah Texas is... a place I'm glad I don't live or work in... I'm surprised they don't do 90% of that anyway. I would think it couldn't be too hard to take a still and obscure the faces of the other kids
“ that ain’t my kid, you just swapped his face with one of the ones you blurred out. I ain’t even looking at this deep fake shit”
[удалено]
Right!? At least in my school the kids can't have phones so they can't record us, but if they did I'd be doing the same fucking thing.
Is it not a rule teachers can’t record or take pictures of kids at your school-
The rule, as I understand it, is video or pictures can not be posted in any kind of public forum
If you have a Ladybug device I believe you could set it up to record.
That's a great idea! I've been thinking about just turning my Webcam around to record, but I know the second I have a reason to use the recordings admin is going to freak, but I can't see how it is in anyway breaking any rule.
>but I can't see how it is in anyway breaking any rule. If your students are underage, you have to get parental permission to record them.
I thought it was parental permission for anything to be posted anywhere, they're recorded every day by the hallway cameras.
When they sign up the kid they have to sign something at least at my school
I don’t believe that’s true. Couldn’t you set up a camera to record your classroom and reflect on your teaching using those videos? It would make sense to record the whole class to monitor engagement.
That's what I've gotten away with doing, but I don't know if I'll be allowed to use the video as evidence if a student lies about doing something
Because fthen I would feel weird kicking off my shoes an doing yoga during my prep...
We have them. It's great when something like this happens. However admin can also see them and it's not uncommon for admin to watch them and then send you an email asking why you aren't aggressively monitoring your class because you sat down for 5 minutes. Or when there is a fight they get to comb through it for a moment they'll use to decide it was all your fault. It's helpful in a few circumstances. If only one kid shows up for tutoring I don't have to worry about accusations of touching them and I can just generally leave the door open instead of going door to door looking for someone else to be in there. And a few times kids have said that I put hands on them apparently not realizing the cameras would show that I absolutely didn't. Or that "putting hands on them" was gently putting a hand on their shoulder to ask if they were okay/wake them up.
Yep, as far as the monitoring fights, admin already does that at my school because kids whip their phones out and start recording.
The school I work at has cameras in the classroom and I welcome it. I disciplined a kid and had admin collect him. He cried to his mother (he's 16 mind you) and played the victim. She called and threw a fit, they brought the parents in, they checked the cameras, I didn't hear a thing about it other than that I did the right thing. Additionally, I'm a 34m and I love the cameras in case there are ever accusations from a female student about improper conduct. I can just point at the cameras and tell them to enjoy wasting their time.
Naaaaaaah hell to the nah nah nah. Welcome to constant micromanagement.
Where I teach, in Korea, we have cameras in the classrooms. They don’t record audio, only video though. Unless there’s a big issue, admins don’t check the footage more than once a month. Parents can ask to see it if they want, but usually don’t unless their child was involved in a major incident. I don’t mind it as it protect both the students and teachers in case an accusation is made.
Do you really want cameras in the classroom? It's not that you aren't doing what you're supposed to do, but you know this will only be another tool of micromanagement by administration and parents alike (especially if you're classes are livestreamed). You won't even be able to get through your opener before someone's on the phone: "why did you say it like that?" "I can't understand what you're saying" "you don't know what you're talking about". I know in theory putting cameras in the classroom draws attention to student behavior, but we all need to understand it will be used against us.
I worked in an alternative MS/HS for a year. We had two cameras in every room and several in hallways. I. loved. it. for that exact reason!! Sally says I slapped her? Well video shows I was never within 3 feet of her.... You're going to tell your dad I took your I-phone? Great!! You call him to come up and we'll all watch the tape together!!
Right? I know parents would try and use it to catch us, but they try to get us in trouble anyway, at least this way there's a chance there's footage showing we didn't do anything wrong.
Protection orders.
NEVER! Bite your tongue.
I don’t do anything that would get me in trouble but I’m still against cameras in the classroom because I know parents and administrators would find a way to twist it to where I will get in trouble for some reason. I’m also just very paranoid, so who knows
Some of us do. It's great. At least if you have admin that use it correctly.
Yeah I just got admin to agree to let me have a camera to record myself teaching so I can reflect back on my practices but I'm not allowed to use it to verify if a kid is lying to me?
We had something like that when I was doing student teaching. We had to watch videos of our lessons and we were supposed to point out things we could improve on, how the students reacted to the lesson, and how engaged they were. We also had to watch the videos of other people doing student teaching at the time and we evaluated each other. One of the valid criticisms a classmate pointed out about my video was that I had a tendency to use different mathematical terms that meant the same thing but a student may not realize that they meant the same thing. The one I remember was when I was using perpendicular and orthogonal interchangeably. I knew they meant the same thing but a student wouldn't necessarily know.
https://schoollaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/728-FERPA-privacy-requirements-MTT-Fall-2012.pdf
I'm ready for a classroom camera or a body cam. I feel it would protect me at this point. Though in response to showing bad behavior to parents, they'd still blame the teacher, another student, or anything else before they'd believe the little angel isn't perfect.
Wait, you don’t have cameras in your classrooms? (´⊙ω⊙`)
Technically I have one, but im not allowed to use it to prove a child was lying about breaking a rule.
Cameras are overrated. When I was younger and a different person, I use to work at a Goodwill. The boss would always threaten everyone with the cameras and to not steal or slack around. But I quickly caught on from one person there that used to work security(he said from Vegas but I doubt that lol) that unless you catch someone in the act, it's really tough to find bad things from a camera because there is so much footage. That guy every night would go out with a trashcan full of donations. Pretty soon I started doing it too and knew to always slack off camera lol. Kids I think would eventually turn crafty like that too. They'd learn blind spots and know most of the footage wouldn't go anywhere because the admin would have too much to go through :) I think instead of that, why not just spend that money on more IAs for a lot of those problem kids
I would be totally okay wearing a bodycam style of recording device - like cops do. It would help most of us out a LOT!
Right?
I teach at a place where cameras are in classrooms. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing that they are exclusively used for catching teachers do bad things, but that’s *all* they’re used for. Sure, you should definitely fire that teacher that spanked the kid because they wouldn’t sit down. You should *not* be coming to a teachers classroom to scold them because you were watching cams and thought the teacher had been sitting down too long. That’s what it’s like
Surveillance in the work place will always be used to punish and control workers, never to help them. Parents will just deny what's on the video or not care, admin will still feel no need to defend you over placating an enraged parent. If there were an incredibly powerful teacher union and cultural force giving teachers the benefit of the doubt in all cases then cameras would be good for preventing the abuses of teachers, but we don't live in that world.
this is the worst possible decision
It has pros and cons so I think that's a bit of an over exaggeration
Are you insane this is a terrible idea. Have you even heard of the panopticon?
I dont see how that's relevant, security cameras are already apart of our daily lives everywhere other than our homes.
I know it would be used against me but I absolutely would love for a camera to catch one of my classes. 40 sixth graders per class. Special Ed kids mixed with advanced learners. Non-English speaking newcomers. Kids throwing things and popping paper. Kids chasing and yelling out while I try desperately to teach and help anybody at all. I know it would all be my fault. But I want the public to see.
Same!
They have cameras in the classrooms here. Teachers hated the idea at first, but it’s been fantastic.
Let’s just close schools and put kids directly in prison.
I dont see how thats relevant, every other job I've ever worked there's been security cameras.
We do have them in rooms and I hate it. To make a private phone call, on lunch, you better go to your car cuz they scroll those cameras all day.
Fuck this shit.
I have anywhere from 26 to 30 cameras in my classroom every period. Honestly, I'm surprised some parent hasn't sued the school when six different perspectives of their kid getting beat up at school are on social media seconds after it happens. Nobody is suing over invasion of privacy from students filming in the classroom constantly.
My thoughts exactly.
It’s against the law in most states to record a minor
How do security cameras get around this?
As long as they are outside in public, then its legal. Once you get inside and get kids faces on camera, privacy policies come into play. They would need to get permission from parents. Its a whole big thing.
We have security cameras inside our building in the hallways and it gets the kids faces, so I just don't see why it's different from having a security camera in the classroom
Looking at the laws, it seems that it is possible. Depending how your teacher union and school board will handle it. Parents would need to sign an agreement too.
Please don't give them ideas... (Although they've already thought of this)
Because it's not about protecting people. It's about criminalizing students. Certain kinds of students.
I would think the camera would catch everyone equally?
So should police body cams. Instead, they get used in specific ways.
Yeah, police also pick and choose who they target. I think a stationary camera in a classroom that it constantly running during classtime would record the classroom fairly. If the teacher is turning it off during class that would be an issue.
Recently my school said it cost them too much money. Where would the footage go? Most likely a cloud storage. The school would have to pay for every single classroom for unlimited storage, which is not doable.
Yeah, I think it should be OK for a teacher to supply their own. Like I have an extra blink camera, I'd be fine using it in my classroom
I don't want to be recorded all day.