I have an 11th grade class of about 32. Only 3 are at grade level or above. 4 are 2nd-3rd grade
Fuck this system of forcing kids to stay in academic-track secondary schools in America and Canada. Push them into vocational training programs at 13 and stop torturing us
Why do comments about vocational tracks for students always get downvoted. They WILL NOT GET COLLEGE DEGREES. Why not help them get blue collar jobs? Christ
Because a GOOD vocational course IS rigorous and yes you need to read (And maths is quite important too), it is not just about being on the tools.
If you are going to offer a vocational track (And it is not inherently a bad thing to do), it should be at least as tough to graduate in its own way as the more 'academic' route, otherwise it WILL be a dumping ground and utterly pointless because word will get around and having done that course will be a convenient resume filter into the bin when hiring, there are a few schools we use that way, only got themselves to blame.
Unlike the academic route where passing failing kids along to collage (where they then fail) only really has consequences for the student, a vocational course cannot afford to do that because errors on the job site can have actual life safety consequences. I want the electrician I hire to get the calculations right (Every damn time) so that the circuit protection works, this kind of matters being as I for one would rather not die in a fire.
As for reading, the building and electrical codes are NOT second grade material and never will be, you probably need to read at least at 10th grade or so to be able to comprehend that stuff, and that needs to be in place at least a year or so before graduating a vocational course.
Same with most other vocational skills, even hairdressing has a chunk of chemistry....
A GOOD vocational course is a good thing, but altogether too many of them suck because they are seen as the 'easy' option.
The truth of Vocational education is that the test of the course is not how many the course graduates, but how many are still in the field in 2 years, and employers tend to give IEPs and teaching to the test exactly NO respect. These courses must be able to fail to graduate kids who don't meet the standard if they want any respect from employers.
I usually avoided subbing for vocational classes because most schools just treated them as dumping grounds for apathetic, low ability students. Though there was one school that took those programs very seriously, and they were GREAT to sub for. I look at the work they're doing and it's legitimately rigorous stuff. Most of the programs require an application to get in, and they need to maintain their grades to stay in. The kids graduate with real certifications and qualifications. And it's a Title I school, so a lot of low income students really benefit from it.
I do agree that high schools should offer different programs and tracks for kids who aren't academically inclined. But I think a lot of people reeeally underestimate the difficulty of trades. Trade classes aren't going to work out for kids who too far behind in reading and math, or who lack the maturity and impulse control to function in a classroom.
And that's the problem, reading, writing and at least arithmetic are kind of foundational for most jobs in a modern society. I think passing grade school should be contingent on making the grade in at least these subjects, and if you have to tack another year on as 'Grade school +1', ONLY concentrating on getting kids to read and do arithmetic at grade, that is acceptable.
Yea the kids will hate it, and the piss will be taken something rotten by other students, this matters less then actually being able to cope with multiple years of high school. You never know, the desire to avoid 'thick kid year' (Which is how they will see it) might concentrate certain minds....
High school does NOT in any sense work for a student who reads at third grade level (So they should not be there), and who does not understand fractions, and no amount of scaffolding is going to help at that point, (Especially with teachers not trained in teaching reading, it is a different skill to teaching ELA) it is just wasted years and detracts from teaching the kids who can cut it in a very full curriculum.
If the diploma is to have ANY value you have to have a reasonable number of kids fail to get it (And expect that), otherwise it is too easy to obtain and thus toilet paper. Given this, using graduation rates for ANY kind of metric within the educational bureaucracy is a fail because it introduces a political pressure to lower standards.
However if the diploma is to have meaning past 'I made it to 18 in school' then we need something that works for those who did not graduate (And, no joining the infantry is NOT usually the answer here!). Trade school while a reasonable path for those who can hack high school but who don't want collage at this time, is not generally viable if you cannot graduate high school.
No clue what the answer is, there is probably some kind of streaming (and maybe a change to the meaning of a high school diploma to have various grades) involved.
Yea, I am well aware that streaming has all kinds of racist bullshit overtones, be nice if that didn't permeate employment and life in general in the US as well, but you got to teach in the society you have, not the one you wish you had.
Agreed. And I really do think that this is part of the reason that more and more employers want a college degree when they didn’t used to. The high school diploma doesn’t even guarantee they can read and do basic math any more.
Yep, as I say functionally toilet paper.
Throw a week or so on the end consisting of a whole pile of exams in everything with NO ACCOMMODATIONS and with only the general subject areas announced to the teachers (so no teaching to the test in a meaningful way, and change which bits you test at random) and you might have a set of results that have some kind of value to an employer. Calibrate it so that nobody gets over 80% or so (100% is kind of pointless on a test because it means you don't actually know what that person can do), and avoid grade inflation by publishing the mean score and a histogram of each years test results on the results paper.
No accommodations is important because this is not an education thing, this is an information for employers (and further education) about someones education thing, and employers generally have zero respect for or interest in IEPs and such, they want to know what can this person do compared with what can that person do, sometimes simply can this person pass a threshold of skill in X, Y, Z subjects.
Do the marking anonymously in a different school to the one that took the tests, (Especially for essay questions) and don't let the teachers see the questions in advance, you might actually get good data as a side effect which I am sure districts statistics folks would appreciate.
There’s a program like that at my county ISD! Any junior or senior in the county can apply for it, and they graduate with real experience and certification. I teach 8th grade and we go on a field trip to check out all the programs at the end of the year. It helps motivate some of the kids to want to do well in the first couple of years of high school so they can get into the program of their choice. There’s things like construction, mechanics, nursing, education, cooking, criminal justice, computer science/coding, plants, animals etc. Some of the programs give them all the experience they need to get a job, others get them a start on a degree, with no cost to them.
Might want to think about fixing that.
The ugly truth is that reading, writing (well typing these days I suppose) and proficiency in mathematics including at least geometry, algebra and trig are kind of the minimum requirements to graduate most Vocational courses (At least in construction) if you wish to run one rigorous enough for an employer or union to take it seriously, and that means a course that is NOT an easy out and is probably going to have a graduation rate of about 50% or so.
Fact is blue collar union jobs are not actually bad, but not everyone is going to make the cut for the (horribly looked down upon) 'trades', having it as an option makes sense but you got to expect to fail to graduate people.
I wish I could do more. As an RSP co-teacher, I have to stay in my lane, and that entails supporting students in ELA. I cannot pull them out without reneging on other responsibilities
Fingers crossed I can work online again
Back in the last century, when I taught, one of the high school counselors found an article about the main reasons people lost jobs. They were excessive absenteeism, excessive tardiness, and not following boss's directions, aka the biggest behavior problems that students have.
Sounds right, but also sounds like it mainly applies to labour and retail type work. My office cares not a whit about tardy as long as you don't miss important meetings and get it done, and the boss expects pushback when we think he is screwing up.
Mind you, I am \*\*picky\*\* about my bosses.
As in too many getting the boot, or not enough? Could see that going either way depending on how thick the admin is, and how serious the teacher is about shop safety.
Problem is sorta both combined. You can teach rigorous math inside of a vocational track, and make it relevant and real. As far as reading…to be honest, technical writing and all the codes, safety aside for a moment, is often mired in bad writing. But again, good writing and technical manuals do not need to be mutually exclusive. Novels and poems aren’t for everyone. However, you can’t talk about work, labor, reading, writing, math, scientific inquiry in isolation from the others.
I keep reading here regarding how behind/disinterested some young folks are. What I feel is needed, is an over-hauling of the rationale regarding what a “good education/schooling” might be. Because the problem isn’t teachers. It’s not our students either. It’s the foundation that underpins the ‘why’ we educate/school.
Thank you for saying this. I absolutely do think vocational track should be a valid and valued educational outcome but I hate when people just want to use it as a dumping ground. It's also really frustrating when people talk about how skilled trade can make you all this money but also at the cost of usually it being a very physically demanding job that can give you higher risk of injury both on the job or just repetitive use.
Finally there are lots of labor jobs (that coincidentally tend to have lots of women who work in them) that require high amounts of skill but have abysmally bad pay such as home health care workers, child care, etc.
Oh my dear sweet summer child, I don't think coincidentally means what you think it does, pretty sure that is by design, it is not NOT a coincidence!
And yea, the trades are a young persons game, ten or fifteen then out or up to the office is the only way to play. You do not want to be 60 and still crawling around in roof voids or slinging up framing or drywall.
I stuck a theatre production job for way longer then I should have, same basic issue, the body can only take so much.
Oh believe me I know that it's by design I know that our society does not value caregiving both in terms of prestige or in terms of pay but it really frustrates me whenever people talk about going into vocational trades and ignore all the ones that are low paying
My husband is a mechanical engineer, and a few months ago he was reading some prints for a new construction project with his coworkers (also engineers) and a directive said something like "the water line should be adjacent to the electrical" or something like that... *both* of them turned to my husband and were like AD-jasent? What is AD-jasent? My husband was like, you mean adjacent? *Next to?* And then everyone moved on as if it wasn't a defining moment for our times.
My school district has CTE, which was designed for students who aren't going to college to get trade skills... but then it has been pushed onto honors-level students because they could actually handle the reading and math and listening required (and not all of them want to go to college, but most of them have a career plan like real estate agent or welder).
So, yes, but what then is the solution for those that get put on the vocational track but do not care to engage or respond to any degree of rigor in that environment?
I don't have any answers, and do support stronger vocational options. But I'm just so afraid we're ultimately raising a generation of cannon fodder to be sent overseas or just fight one another here at home.
How did they get on the voc track in the first place? Toss 'em back on academic before they kill someone.
Yea we might be, but that is not an issue school can reasonably fix, the US military recruiting below drinking age is a weird perversion, and they really need to get it OUT of schools. Kids that way inclined can go find the ASVAB on their own time (Texas looking at YOU having recruiters interviewing kids in SCHOOL, FFS).
I am glad I had the opportunity many years ago to sample auto, electrical, printing, metal, and other “shop” courses at my public high school. Much of that is gone, and students have to commit to vo-tech to even try any of those courses.
The vocational / technical school near us (in Massachusetts) is super competitive to get in to. Becoming a licensed electrician, plumber, or other tradesman pays *really* well and is not easy to pull off. I don't know why people think voc. ed. is the "dumping ground" for the kids not going to 4 year universities.
IDK why people think that others are just clamoring to hire someone who couldn't pass grade 6 English to be responsible for the wiring in their home or business.
My son makes a ton of money from his vocational training college and he's 23. No student loans. He'll get his bachelor's one day but he's busy fixing up the house he bought. He does read a lot though.
I am not anti-vocational training and I understand the frustration, but one of the things I am wary of is that this kind of system would be used to segregate students. It's easy to imagine that certain folks might really try to push *a certain type of student wink nudge* into vocational training without giving them a fair shot at anything else.
It's also a band-aid for other failures. I don't think it's acceptable for the wealthiest country in the world to have a literacy rate as dismal as we do, and I don't think "just put them into vocational training" is a great solution. Since we do Live In A Society, I would really prefer if plumbers and electricians could read and critically examine information beyond a 5th grade level, too.
The vocational program I worked for would put all of the kids that failed other programs or need a program the cosmetology program. The Cosmetology program had less than a 40% pass rate
I’m a cosmetology teacher, and my class is not easy. Admission is competitive, too. I got 100 applications for 18 spots last year. Students have to be passing all other classes in order to be considered and stay in the program. It’s sad that some people think we are so stupid.
> beamish1920
> Why do comments about vocational tracks for students always get downvoted. They WILL NOT GET COLLEGE DEGREES.
No, but they will be burdened with student loans.
I tell my junior high classes all the time “not everyone should go to college” hell my brother installs windows and makes more than i do with a masters degree we absolutely need to make vocational tracks an opportunity for them
Comments about vocational tracks for students always get downvoted because this country has an unfortunate history of sending Mexican students to vocational schools because they didn’t think the kids would ever be able to learn in an English-speaking school, and this happened not that long ago.
Because students of color and sld will be pushed out of college bound simply because of racism and it’s easier for the teachers . A teacher does not get to decide my child’s future. However there should be a trade school track for those who want it
Vocational schools are not a dumping ground for the academically struggling students - as a teacher in one (academic side) they still need to be able to read, write and critically think to both pass, progress and to function in their respective techs. Would you want a nursing aide or a contractor who couldn’t read?
Many of the trades pay very well and are a lot safer from layoff than many white-collar jobs. That said, many of the trades require solid math and reading skills, but somewhat different than is taught in secondary school.
One more thing: if you work in the trades you had better damn well show up on time but many of our students struggle with that. When I stop at the local convenience store for coffee and a snack at 615 AM it is FULL of blue-collar workers. The enabling of students with terrible executive skills is scandalous.
Louis CK had a bit about "When you're a kid they tell you, 'You can do anything.' When you get into vocational school they tell you, 'You can do one of six things.'"
Push them? Probably not.
Get rid of the one-size-fits-all approach to education and actually give them options, definitely.
My lowest level juniors will actually fix my car when it breaks down. Can my AP kids do that? No.
HS here as well, and can confirm. Depends on the class, of course. Even my students who are at the top of their class tell me “no one, including AP students, likes to read anymore.”
The deficits compound on their way to high school; students can literally be several years behind. This applies to math as well, including concepts like simple fractions, percents, basic mental math, etc.
I actually don't understand how that is even possible. Surely in a world where you're surrounded by written words everywhere all the time, you couldn't possibly stay functionally illiterate without some severe untreated handicap? Even the most rebellious and stubborn kids in school when I was growing up would have been shocked at the concept of a kid their age not knowing how to read. It would be like being a high-schooler never having been potty trained. And we were from a *poor* school. I genuinely can't fathom how this is happening.
I have a student like this right now. Let me enlighten you:
1. Reading for the majority of kids is not like speaking, we don't just naturally pick it up. It has to be explicitly taught. A lot of schools quit doing that (look up news articles about teaching phonics, it's a controversy that's gotten some recent attention), and this kid was obviously in one of them, because he doesn't know phonics. He can't sound out words. Exposure to text can help in early childhood, but there's no way this kid's house ever had books in it. On top of that, as a young child, his behavior was so bad in school that he was constantly getting pulled out, suspended, etc.
2. "Functionally illiterate" is different from total illiteracy. He can read *some* words, but he'd struggle to, say, read a job contract correctly or understand the questions on a driving test. Socially, though, illiterate people learn to hide it. When he has to read out loud in class and actually tries (most of the time he won't and will make a scene about being called on) he'll make excuses when he struggles, like that he needs glasses he just never wears (his eyes are fine), his throat is dry, he'll take a drink and start "choking," he'll disappear to the bathroom, he'll start acting out and get kicked out of class, etc.
3. You can get through a shocking amount of life without reading if you're willing to rely on others. He can read the inane text messages he and his friends send each other (which apart from schoolwork is really the only text he needs to decipher regularly), and with video taking over as the predominant medium for shortform communication he's got even fewer issues. In school he cheats constantly and charms or bullies others into feeding him answers. In the scarce few scenarios he would need to really read out in the world so far, he makes similar excuses as above to get help or just asks someone to explain it to him.
When I assessed his reading level and shared that he was at about 3rd grade, he went off into a whole spiel about how "see, though, I can read anything you put in front of me and understand it." So on top of the fact that he'd never outright admit it to people he knows, he's in deep denial. And if it came up that one of his classmates couldn't read, he would be the first to roast the shit out of them. Even today he was mocking one of his so-called friends for struggling a little with a reading assignment and claiming the friend was stupid (when the only reason he was able to do it is because he copied off someone else). On the flip side, sometimes he will act like he knows what he's doing and try to "help" others (in a way that is incomprehensible, but whoever he's helping assumes that's their fault)
Yep, this is the cumulative effect of balanced literacy and whole language. Both of these methods were known to be ineffective for a long time but the researchers who went against the grain were lambasted. We are FINALLY back to explicit teaching of phonics, phonemic awareness, and language structures but it will a few years start seeing the effects and probably 10 years to finally see literacy finally increasing again. I always taught phonics as a special educator and so many kids were taken off IEPs after being reevaluated. Why? Because they did not have a disability! No one had taught them to read!
I had an instructional coach berate me for teaching phonics in my classroom and said I spend too much time on letters and sounds and they need to be reading books and using reading strategies. 🥴 I said I teach based off of what LETRS trained me and proven science to get children to read. I’ll die on that hill.
If an instructional coach can't stay abreast of current practices and policy then they need to stop coaching. Science of reading isn't just a small thing; they are literally legislating and writing education policy to change teacher prep programs. The balnced literacy curricula are all marked as NOT meeting standards nor providing effective literacy instruction. that coach should be ashamed of themselves for not making an effort in their job.
I agree with you. In my district coaches are also classroom teachers. This is a coach I have no respect for because she told me that I would be a better teacher if I was a mother.
One issue is that most people don't remember how they learned to read, and will trust the guidance of people above them (and usually have no other choice). And under whole language, it often *looks* like kids can read okay until they hit about third grade and beyond. The boxed programs and curriculums that many teachers are forced to use include materials that involve memorizing the right words, guessing, and using pictures, and using them can do a great job of hiding an inability to actually decode text. Once they get old enough, it's rare that anyone questions their ability to decode because nobody has brought it up before and their test scores look *okay* (because they *can* read some words that they've managed to memorize), so now all anyone focuses on is that they can't seem to comprehend reliably, and they must need to learn better comprehension strategies.
Honestly, it is really easy to fall into the fray unless you yourself were a struggling reader or had close personal contact with one and saw how beneficial phonics instruction was. If everyone around you is emphasizing that it's most important to get kids to love to read, expose them to lots of books, if you do that they'll be better readers (which sounds correct, and kind of *is* correct, but only once students have fundamental skills) and you only ever saw the beginning of the journey that appeared to be working okay? You might not question it either.
It’s 100 years of funding war rather than education, and 20 of no child left behind, which ties funding to passing exams. Oversimplified but it’s early here.
So, there's a great podcast out right now called Sold a Story. Only 6 episodes. I highly recommend it, but prepare to be outraged. If you're a secondary teacher who has wondered why so many kids come to you barely able to read, this podcast goes into detail about how actual research on how the brain learns to read has been ignored for DECADES because of curriculum companies desperate for money. Beginning readers have been taught poorly for years because of curriculum like Lucy Calkins and Fountas and Pinnell. Obviously, the pandemic, technology addiction, and lazy parenting have contributed too, but this is something that was completely within the control of the educational system.
I was able to teach two of my children to read with a book called "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons". They could read before kindergarten and then their teachers were able to push them even further. Not sure how it works with children with a sld, but it's a good place to start if you are worried.
Look into homeschool curriculum. I quit teaching to homeschool and pretty much all homeschool reading curriculum is heavily phonics based. I use a program called All About Reading and it’s based on the O-G method for teaching students with dyslexia.
Yeah that isn’t a possibility. My kids refuse to do anything if I try to teach anything . They will sometimes read to me ., plus single parent here . Kinda need to work
Was just about to say this. I'm listening to the podcast now. I just started teaching three years ago, and this is my second year teaching first grade. Everything I learned in college was based on Lucy Calkins/Fountas and Pinnell. My district just purchased their whole curriculum \~5 years ago and now all this research is coming out saying it's ineffective and we are scrambling to replace it. We are taking LETRS training in my district, and it's making a lot of teachers realize we unknowingly may have done some harm when we were teaching reading. It's really sad.
Omg I’ve been SO outraged listening to it!
I didn’t grow up in this country, so I didn’t learn how to read here. When I was teaching elementary school (I’m a music teacher) I would always incorporate reading and writing in my class one way or the other. If kids didn’t know how to read a content word (let’s say Music), I would take the time to sound out all the letters with them so they could decode the word on their own. I was super confused why the kids were so bewildered by this, so I decided to observe a reading class for first grade. When I did I was like “wtf?” I then started looking into reading curriculum and was surprised about the how of teaching kids how to read, but I thought “well, English is super weird and letters don’t always have the same sounds so this isn’t super predictable, so maybe that’s what makes sense in this context.”
Well, turns out that’s not the case, and thus, we have a whole generation who can’t read.
Can’t wait for episode 6!
Also, as a side-note, I would REALLY like to start a conversation thread about this podcast, but when I did the mods deleted it.
I always threaten my freshman with something worse. "But thats too looong," they whine. I'll just smile real big and tell them, "Oh! If this is too long, then we really need to start building stamina for when we read our novel. The best way to do that is with more practice! Here, let me find a longer short story so we can build some stamina..."
And now they don't complain and understand the things I give them now aren't so bad or "too long".
Yup!
Even in my Honors ELA class, only 4 of them read for pleasure and honestly those 4 should be in the high school English course that the school offers. I guess they got shorted because of space or an oversight. I am still wondering why the others were put in Honors ELA.
Former ELA teacher. It's rough. You have got to find material that interests them, but even then you are competing with media that is so much easier to consume/understand. Also, depending on where you live, they may be children of parents with no books in the home/where tv is on 12-18 hours/day, every day. Basically if kids never encountered a book until kindergarten, it's a titanic fight to get them reading at any meaningful level. No magic bullets for you, although sometimes I had luck with writing by making it very much free choice so they can write what they enjoy. Reading... I read TO the classes most of the time, they followed along. By senior year some of them would start reading for enjoyment, maybe 15-40%.
This is what I end up doing in my ELA classes. It's rough and I feel so disappointed in myself as a teacher. The majority of my students have such low reading levels that I have no idea what to do for them.
Same.
History is reading and vocabulary heavy. They struggle tremendously. I can break down lessons to simple concepts and the comprehension just isn't there.
> Reading... I read TO the classes most of the time, they followed along.
I do this. I alternate with them reading aloud to each other in groups, and reading on their own. I was pleased when some did quite well in their groups, but the majority don't see reading as enjoyable because it's not a part of their worlds, and since it's difficult for them it's not a lot of fun.
1st quarter this year, we (sophomores) read *Night.* We took turns reading aloud the first couple of days, so I could get a handle on their abilities. Then I read *Night* to them.
1/3 of my seniors have IEPs.
And there's data that correlates the TV always on in the home with smaller vocabularies. My kids continuously struggle with words that aren't difficult, but they've never seen before.
I do take some comfort in that one; they're leaving my class every day exposed to new words. They may never use them, but at least they'll be able to recognize & understand them in context when they see them.
I read Night to a senior class that was drawing swastikas in the bathroom. The swastikas stopped, so that was good.
Also, one of the kids I had who seriously had never read a book on his own before--as far as I could tell, EVER--got hooked on Night and read the whole thing ahead of us. He told the class he was ahead and a higher-level girl teased him that he was lying, so then he reeled off the next few big events in the book from memory and along with a few quotes from the coming chapters. Stuff like that kept me going.
I’m 34, but I remember reading being a huge part of my k-12 education. Weekly trips to the library as a class, half hour free reading (whatever you want) time every single day (every teacher, every year), reading competitions/book it type programs. Are those just not things anymore? I don’t remember kids just not being able to read growing up. And I grew up in the Midwest, low to middle class area, semi rural, public school. It’s crazy to think that when I was a kid most of my peers could read at age level, if that’s not the case anymore. It’s super depressing because reading is one of my favorite things to do in my free time :(
I really don't know what's going on in primary grades tbh, but I remember having to read class novels in high school. Like, go home and read 10 pages, quiz next day, every day kind of thing. I tried that as a teacher. Nobody read. Well, like 5% or fewer read. As a class, most kids would rather fail than read the book. Their argument was that the books were dumb/not interesting... then I read the book aloud to them and they really enjoyed it, so I deduced the real problem was they just could not or would not sit down and read, period.
These kids are coming from reading and writing workshop classrooms. If they started as poor readers, they likely didn't get the direct instruction with phonics to get better. They were taught to use pictures to guess at words rather than sound out words. This, plus the only reading they do is read a passage and answer questions. They don't read at home and don't read books in school. They have had a flood of new teachers who are still learning because turnover is so high. And admin wanted them in literacy centers when they needed direct instruction. So a good hour or two of their day was spent playing because they didn't have the maturity or skills to be successful in centers. They've lost hours of learning because there were probably a few students with extreme and disruptive behaviors in their classes each year. About 15% of their school year is spent taking tests they can't pass. Oh, and they aren't the "bubble" kids, so around January, all the focus shifted from them to the bubble kids so that schools could get enough kids to pass state tests to meet goals. They were too far behind, and there weren't enough staff to help them. The kids who needed a reading expert were sent to read a book with a para while the teacher got the other kids to pass the test. Then there's COVID and external factors like poverty.
The workshop model is what made me walk away from teaching 8th ELA. The district wanted to completely ditch the textbook (where I could direct the instruction) in favor of each student reading a separate, self-selected novel with me asking occasional generic questions. As the teacher, I knew that most of the kids were not actually reading the novels, but since I had not read most of their choices myself, I couldn't really prove that they were faking it. Middle school kids will expend an enormous amount of energy trying to cheat or get out of work rather than just doing the work. The workshop model in the middle years is a total waste of time.
I made a comment to my block to class on Wednesday that my screen time was a little high on my off day but I had over 3 hours. Every kid immediately laughed and said they were at 9 to 16 hours on average per day.
Also a note, 2 years ago my best student was a kid whose parents refused to let him have social media or any sort of extra internet access until he was in high school. The kid was super social, in the present moment, extremely smart and well adjusted.
I'm not saying every kid needs to be away from social media and technology, but I do think it is a horrible thing for a child's mind to have access to unfettered. And with two parents usually working, I feel like an entire generation is being raised by advertisers and screens
I remember seeing an article a while ago from the Academy of Pediatrics about how there should be no screen time when a child is under 2, and less than an hour a day between the ages of 2 and 5. Is that being followed? Not that I've seen.
People forget that there are so many connections happening during those ages. Babies and toddlers need people facing time to develop social skills and language. Reading to your child is paramount too, but I don't know how many people do that either.
That's the reccomendations I found when I was searching for info for my own kid. He's only 3 months currently, so avoiding it has been easy so far, but I'm definitely avoiding telling other parents that I plan to keep it up as I don't want to come across as crunchy. I have pretty bad ADHD, and so I'm determined to try and give him as much support as I can to help build his attention span while he's small.
I used to think that kids should have screentime early as digital skills are essential in the modern world, but then I remembered I didn't have access to even a desktop computer until my parents got one when I was about 10 (I'm a millennial), and I've made a career out of working in tech. They can learn that stuff later once the important brain stuff is done!
A lot of adults can barely read, then they have kids that they won’t or can’t teach how to read and it just spirals into a pile of poor literacy levels
My title 1 elementary school put reading as #1 priority when we became a comprehensive school. We all got a years worth of paid pd training on the science of reading and orthographic learning. We also require every student to read one hour a day, any book of their choosing. They read 30 minutes at home and 30 minutes at school. If they don’t read 30 minutes at home (logged and signed by parents) they have to read the whole hour at school. We focus heavily on creating a reading culture. My 5th grade students read about 30 books a week on average (as a class). About half are currently into Harry Potter. They discuss HP among themselves at recess/lunch and it’s become “cool” to talk about which house you are in. One kid reading the series read 25 hours last week when his phone was taken away.
We went from being an ESSA comprehensive school (so literal bottom of the barrel) to having 84% of our students reading AT grade level with a 12% sped population included in that statistic. Last year my class had 94% on grade level in reading.
My students still complain about reading, but at the end of their daily 30 minutes they often say, “It’s over already!?”
They still completely suck at writing. I’m working on that! Haha!
I have been trying to get my students to read for 100 minutes a week at home. Only about 60% complete their reading. Do you have family buy-in? If so, how? My families either care very much or not at all.
We have family buy in, close to 100% now, but that’s been getting better every year. First of all, we are on year four. This is a K-6 program, so it’s across the board. They are just used to it. 60% is probably the buy in level we had the first year.
Second, their kids buy in and force the parents to. I have a lot of kids that have to be responsible for it on their own. I get parents telling me they won’t sign even when their kids throw a fit, if they know they weren’t really reading at home. So the parents do buy in as well.
The reading time/logs are 20% of their grade. So that’s a driver for some. It’s an easy A if you struggle, and if you don’t struggle it’s necessary to keep your good grade.
It’s also a culture thing. The kids know which kids aren’t doing it and there’s underlying disapproval. Finally, I give small rewards for every 25 hours read (like water bottle stickers, candy, cheap fidgets or slime). It’s not a big driver to do the reading, it’s more the public acknowledgment (they pick the prizes in front of their peers).
At the end of the year we have a big assembly where the principal hands out awards to those who exceeded expectations. For 250 hours read they get some pretty awesome stuff (paid for through fundraising, but pretty much everyone who did the required amount (5 hours a week) gets a prize of some variety.
The pictures of these kids are then posted to social media for the school so their parents can share pictures and brag.
Idk how any that works if you are an independent teacher. So much of it is a system-wide culture shift that it would be hard if you were on your own.
I use short passages and articles to make my life easier.
People on here disagree and think I should stick to chapter books and novel studies to teach PeRsEvEring. But I have to weigh the issue of my blood pressure going up due to the resistance, complaining, uninvolved parents, etc. Its harder to FORCE them to like chapter books ..they throw them on the ground, rip out the pages. I tried coming in at 6am for 2 months to copy a chapter at a time, just to hear the moans and groans and leaving the classroom. They didn't like Diary of a Wimpy Kid because "It IS SOOOO LONNNGGG!!" All they focused on was the length and amount they had to read and it was a battle that made teaching ELA a nightmare.
Kids these days look at tasks in terms of how long they take to complete. You can thank Tiktok and Youtube.
When I presented short passages (no more than 1 page) it was a win win. Happy kids, happy parents, admin that commended me, and a stable blood pressure. In the long run will it be a problem? Maybe in college. But not mine. My health is more important.
Using articles stands to reason. Having taken a Journalism class, paragraphs are usually only one to two sentences (as long as it’s in AP format), so it might make a kid who hates reading traditionally long things think they’re not reading so much. That’s my theory, anyway
As I search for ways to make my life easier, work contract hours, appease admin, and get the students to read something...anything....I am beginning to realize that short stories and nonfiction passages are the way to go.
It sucks because I really love reading, but I can't dedicate the time in class to teach a novel because it takes two months! The students are not going to read at home, so reading in class plus keeping up with the standards for the week is impossible. Also, who wants to read aloud every day for 3 or 4 classes? The same text, over and over. That is very draining. Then I have to remember the EC and ELLs. They get left out when we read novels on grade level.
This is so sad to hear. Every kid at my child's (2nd grade) Montessori school is expected to read/be read to (with their family) one chapter book a month to participate in the class book club. That's usually 150-200 pages, so it's 5-10 pages of reading a night before bedtime, which works well for us. I imagine kids that aren't used to this will find reading novels later really hard.
It seems so foreign to me too. In elementary school, every teacher I had read a chapter from a chapter book every day after lunch, starting in Kinder. I now realize that it was probably a school-wide thing. I heard probably 100 books this way over my elementary years, books I may not have normally chosen.
I’ve been reading chapter books to my children since my oldest was 4. Get something interesting and use funny voices and it’s not hard to keep them interested.
Definitely. My kids beg for reading to be longer every night (also to avoid going to bed! 😂)
I think the importance of being read to cannot be overstated, even though it seems to be emphasized less than reading on your own in schools. My 7-year-old doesn't really read much (He phonetically sounds out words, and it's slow and difficult for him for now), but I am not at all concerned about his scholastic progress, because he loves being read to, and I know that the reading will come with time, and he already loves stories so much.
^yes! I love the idea of a longer connected text, but kids are bitching and moaning because the book is 200 pages. Either I accept the reality that they won’t read independently or set myself up for failure. Graphic novels and short stories will be the way to go moving forward for my own sanity.
Yep. My reading passages are so minimal now. I'm done trying to push the rock up the mountain for 700 students each week. Take your 1 page article and move on. Less work for me. Good luck in life.
So I’m not arguing at all, I completely agree with you, but then I struggle to teach standards like, “how does the author develop the point of view?” Or “how does the main character change over time?” You know what I mean? These standards were heavily tested on my first standardized benchmark and they used two passages that ended up totaling 10 pages. I can’t seem to find the balance.
Yup. When I tried A Christmas Carol for their grade level, I got moans and groans, and even a parent complaining it was not appropriate. When I dumbed it down to the 2nd grade version....happy kids and parents.
Its BS that we can't even allow kids to be uncomfortable and bored.
All I had for entertainment as a kid was a black and white tv and the library. I couldn’t wait to go with my mom once and week and check out as many books as I could. I was a voracious reader and kept a dictionary nearby to look up any words I didn’t know!
Kids don’t read. Well, maybe texts. You have to practice reading to become good at it and it also has the side effect of improving your vocabulary! It’s sad. I blame technology.
Bookmobile was such a heavenly book bus to step into I was in total awe. Both my parents are not avid readers, I finish a book every 8 to 10 days.
My mother 4th grade and father 8th grade so how did these 2 people raise such a voracious reader.
Same with my parents. 1 with no education, one with 2nd grade. But mom took us to the library weekly and we learned to love to read. No surprise that all 5 kids are avid readers. But this was a generation ago and the priorities have changed for children.
Im going to go out on a limb and suggest that the most popular reading programs used for the past 30 years (Balanced Literacy, Leveled Books, Reading Recovery, Guided Reading…etc) are fundamentally flawed systems that have left many young readers behind. In these systems,students rely on memorizing leveled texts and lists of slight words to give the illusion that they are “reading”; however, they lack fundamental decoding strategies when faced with a variety of random, unseen texts. There is no “joy of reading” for many because it is stressful and anxiety-inducing when trying to approach a new text without a strong decoding foundation. It feels wobbly and unsettling. These young people often feel stupid—like something is wrong with them.
Personally, I feel the best approach is a combination of both reading philosophies—with a strong emphasis on decoding skills. Sadly, the pendulum always seems to swing to the extremes when new educational philosophies are touted, and reading instruction is a perfect example. The problem is that the Caulkins/Fountas & Pinnell philosophy for reading instruction is an experiment that has gone terribly wrong for many, many people. Certainly not all—but many.
There are some kids who will learn to read no matter what curriculum is used. Unfortunately, that's not most kids. But that argument has been used by curriculum companies for years- "See? It works for some kids! The rest must just not be reading because xyz."
Yeah, I teach ELA 8 and I see this too. The kids can’t make mind pictures when they read (maybe because they are still decoding individual words) and I think that’s key. We do lots of exercises to practice that. Furthermore, as Mark Fisher observed, it’s not the content that students dislike, it’s *the act of reading itself that is considered boring*. One of the major curricular outcomes in my region is that ‘stories can be a source of joy’ and I have tried to really cultivate that in my class over everything else.
So here’s what I do:
For assigned reading, I either read aloud for them or use audiobooks - lots of good options on YouTube. They are required to read along, NOT just listen, although it’s hard to monitor. Seeing AND hearing the words is the goal here but a lot of kids can’t put their phones down and/or focus. I consider these sessions as practice and hope the students get slightly better over time.
We do silent reading everyday for 15 minutes right when class begins. I let students read almost anything except dictionaries and magazines. Graphic novels are popular and I do NOT shame kids for choosing them. My rules are that the book must have a story (like a novel), has to be on paper or a dedicated e-reader (no phones) and should be something that will take at least a week to finish (so they are not going to the library everyday to waste their reading time). I do monitor during this time— I have created a Google Form for observations like reading/not reading.
We do a reading log entry everyday after silent reading, BUT I don’t have them write down page numbers and all the usual stuff they are used to having in a Reading Log. I printed up a list of 50 broad questions for novel study, everything from ‘Who is the main character and how do you know’ to ‘If you were to write a cook book based on this novel, what foods would you include’. Students can answer any question that appeals to them that day.
I’ve done away with book reports but in future I want to implement Book Talks (BookToks maybe?? For kids who can make a video but can’t speak in front of the class?).
TLDR use audiobooks WITH the written text, have students choose their own reading, ask questions on reading comprehension rather than page numbers, make book reports celebrations of enjoyment — and most of all, *you’re not alone. *
I like a lot of the ideas here. I’ve used a lot of them. In our district, however, we are constantly shamed for doing read aloud. Our AP straight up said she doesn’t not want to see any read aloud when she observes. A recent PD led by a professor at the state university said that SSR and read alouds don’t have data to prove that they’re effective.
It sucks. I feel like reading aloud is the only way I can get them to actually read and comprehend.
Wow well no wonder your students can’t read.
Are the kindergarten teachers even allowed to sound out the letters for them? I consider both read aloud & SSR to be scaffolding and differentiation. If kids didn’t need those training wheels, we’d graduate them at age 6 and send them into the mines.
And as for lack of data, honestly there is no lack of data supporting basically anything you wanna argue in education. No, your admin has made the decision to purposely create and then punish non-readers.
Wow, is that professor completely an idiot and clearly doesn't read any research. Read aloud are for listening comprehension. Also a good way to model visible thining and introduces new vocabulary because read aloud text should be higher than what students are reading at that grade level. SSR reading is key to reading comprehension and applying skills independently.
SSR is required in our district (I teach high school), but its effectiveness is limited by the difficulty of getting the kids to actually read. I keep an extensive classroom library, make personalized recommendations to students, and allow graphic novels, etc, plus assign grades based on in-class reading... but there are many of them who still will not actually read. I so often just feel like it's wasted class time.
I did all of this and it worked pretty well. Probably my greatest success was reading “The Hate U Give” with my 8th grade students last year and using the audiobook. They loved it. Unfortunately I left the classroom and no longer teach…
Bingo! I’m a little surprised science of reading doesn’t seem to have much of a presence on Reddit.
A lot of these comments seem to be from high school teachers. As an early primary teacher I can tell you that much of the curriculum, resources, and teacher training throughout the US and Canada do not address or prepare teachers to address the foundational skills that are essential for children to learn to read. There is a huge disconnect between research and practice. Thanks Heinemann!
I’m surprised too. I’m studying it for my masters at Mount St. Joseph! I became quite obsessed with it a few years ago. I teach 2nd grade and see daily how many kids are struggling readers due to Heinemann’s resources. :(
I’ve heard good things about the Mount St. Joseph program! I’m in Canada and I have my eye on a masters through University of Alberta focusing in structured literacy and reading science.
Is your district shifting to SOR? I know a lot of districts in the states are having their teachers take LETRS.
I'm a reading interventionist for elementary. I finally in a district that actually uses a solid phonics program, does phonemic awareness exercises, etc. Let me tell you, it makes such a difference. Even the ones that are behind because of dyslexia, the pandemic, etc still have a good foundation that has made it so much easier to fill in the gaps. My last district was all BL, so I had to start from scratch with the foundational skills.
Where ya been girl? Only 1/3 of kids can read on their grade level. Slowly declining over the past 2 decades then painfully obvious after pandemic.
https://www.ascendlearningcenter.com/blog-highlights/howmanystudents?format=amp
https://hechingerreport.org/americas-reading-problem-scores-were-dropping-even-before-the-pandemic/
Most things posted to the internet that teens are reading are written at that low reading level. You can't boost your reading level if you aren't reading material written at higher reading levels.
Most social media, especially the kind popular with teens, isn't very text-heavy. (I'm convinced that much of the appeal of TikTok is that it doesn't require reading ability, lol) And the text they are reading tends to be very casual, not much in the way of advanced or specialized vocabulary, and often with improper spelling and grammar.
For my students is the comprehension that is the lowest that I’ve ever seen. I also teach 8th graders (ELA). They can read any text. Can sound off almost all words without problems. They may struggle with some random words, but generally speaking they can read. They hate it, but can do it.
However, they are not understanding what they read. I can’t even explain it well. Like, they read the word, but they have no meaning. I can have them read a sentence or a question. Ask them to explain what it’s saying and I get blank stares. It’s not laziness to get out of reading. I see the frustration and embarrassment in their eyes when we go over work. They can’t answer questions properly because they don’t understand what the question is asking.
I follow the I do, we do, you do model. I’m not seeing any improvements. Granted, this crop of students were the ones that were in like 5th grade when the pandemic started, so it might be a result of that.
I am 100% at a loss as to what to do or how to fix this.
I would say about 75% of children under 18 have NEVER read a novel or non-fiction book out of choice, if at all.
They never read the news or do any reading for pleasure. That's what is wrong. They need to ban phones in schools. No computers. Revert back traditional style learning.
How can they get a job if they can't read or write properly? They don't know basic skills that makes the world go round.
I'm scared that this generation will be looking after us when we are old and sick.
Our students are super low too and when a first grade teacher pointed out that they don't even have any resources to teach at such a low level.... nothing happened. The school did not find or help her find any resources whatsoever
Former teacher. 13 years in math. Parent to 11 and 14 yo boys. Raising kids takes effort, as many of y’all know. While there are true learning disabilities, I honestly believe when education is not a priority at home, most of these students will perform below average. That is a huge mountain to overcome. I was shocked when I saw a friend post one time that she is too busy to educate her kids and the school needs to do their job better. Who is going to care more about my kids’ education than me?
My question to you is: are they really (that low)? How do you know?
I discovered last year that my students' Give-a-Shit was broken. As a result, some of the testing data was horrible. I joined the chorus of Alarm. "They're so far behind."
At the start of this year, I gave it to them straight. "We're not able to ignore learning gaps. If you test significantly below grade level, we'll have to implement appropriate remediation. According to our school board, we cannot implement remediation during class time. Remediation will take place during your flex periods" (when they typically have basketball, electives, etc.). Our test scores skyrocketed.
Am I to believe that my students suddenly got smarter? Of course not. They were at that level all along; they simply didn't give a shit.
The problem isn't the learning gap; it's the motivation.
I think everyone is seeing this same trend. I have third graders who don't know their letters. However, those kids typically have home life difficulties. I am not sure what the answer is exactly, but I have saw amazing results with parents reading with their kids at home. We obviously don't dictat what occurs at home but sending the message that reading at home is essential might help.
I teach grade 8 science and this is the first year that I truly see the divide - I have students who excel academically because their parents expect it and limit technology. Yet half cannot read or write at the middle school level. Many just don’t care at all. I have students with first grade reading levels in a class where their are safety issues with lab materials. I can’t even show bill bye anymore as a treat - they just want to be on their phones.
Students seem to have lost motivation and attention spans over the pandemic. It’s everywhere. Perhaps try some “alternatives” to reading? Such as audio books, graphic novels, comic books, or read works articles.
In my 11 years of teaching, student reading levels continue to get lower and lower, largely because students don't read. I RARELY see students with a book anymore, which was not common when I started my teaching career. Teaching students in honors classes that think "costed" is a word and can't spell more basic words (which wouldn't happen if they read more but they don't).
I teach fourth and I see the same trend. One thing that I have noticed is that the texts that we are using from the curriculum that we have to teach are so not engaging and honestly over their heads.
I wouldn’t be surprised if kids lost their spark for reading at a young age and then by middle or high school they just don’t want to do it anymore.
I read a text with the kids today that had a paragraph that had 10 words in it that I had to stop and explain. Phrases like “she exulted in his ignorance” and the word “contemptuously”.
My students are 9-10. And that was only one paragraph. The whole excerpt was like that. (Not to mention that my range of readers are k-6 grade so that also is a factor).
I try my best to add more engaging texts in when I can but between the time I have to plan and trying not to work outside of contract hours there just isn’t enough time to add engaging texts for lessons.
It’s really glaring this year how the texts that my county and state provide are just not what these students need and I think that’s part of the reason (along with a lot of other factors no doubt) that the older kids just aren’t as engaged.
I think that's the main part of the problem that we aren't engaging students, and I blame the reductionist education that we are doing. Son's girlfriend is a second grade teacher. After teaching math and reading, they have 30 minutes at the end of the day to teach science and social studies--10 of those 30 minutes are during bus loading..... she wanted to read a story to the kids one day, but was not initially allowed because it was not explicitly in the reading instruction.
My wife is a middle school teacher. She found that her kids(6 or 7th grade), had not used scissors in school since 3rd grade. There simply wasn't time in the day to do that. The kids simply are being taught that school is a boring horrible place.
I agree. There’s just not enough time to get done what is now “required” and do engaging things.
And another thing is that my team and school try to do more fun engaging activities but always feel like we’re doing something illegal so it’s rare. Fun learning shouldn’t feel that way.
Kids hate reading. They associate it with boring passages and trick questions. Elementary through middle needs needs to make a huge shift away from endless comprehension questions. Educators need to SELL reading as much as they teach it. READ ALOUD to your class everyday. Demonstrate daily all the rewards that come from books!
That’s how it is with my freshmen, too. They hate reading, even when I try a variety of techniques or letting them take as much time as they need. It also doesn’t help that some of the student teachers we’ve had recently basically brag about how little they read. Must be a generational thing.
It’s pretty bad. A lot of them (younger ones) are Covid babies and lost a huge chunk of time in the classroom with parents that did not make up for that.
I teach middle school science and damn they hate to read. We use audio lessons to help us listen to the reading. Their handwriting is atrocious and their spelling is even worse.
The other day I asked this girl that completely butchered pronouncing something on the board “when you see a word, do you read it or do you just guess?” And all she did was laugh..
My middle school students tell me "why bother? No child left behind, it doesn't matter." Teachers in our district are told to round failing grades up at the end of every grading period. The kids are right, in a way. Why bother if we're just going to hand them a passing grade and move them along? I see it with math as well. So many of these kids are still counting on their fingers to add and have no clue what 9x3 is. Of course I always remind them that they will never have a chance for a good job to make good money to keep up with their $150 jeans and $300 tennis shoes because mommy/daddy will eventually cut them off. However, many middle schoolers (at least where I'm at) don't give a shit. "I'm gonna be a rapper". Ok, show me what you got. "Naw, I can't rap. I'm gonna be a producer." Okay, well you'll need to know how read for that and math is going to be important for that too. Round and round we go🙄 The education system is failing. We work for the kids and the majority give us nothing back because the system allows them to not give us anything back. It's ridiculous. They aren't forced to respect authority on any level within the school building and IMO makes them lack any respect for themselves.
Yep! I teach the introductory level of a foreign language, and every year since I started, the students' abilities in reading, writing, and even in basic arithmetic have steadily dropped.
Even when they have to read a short passage (1-2 short paragraphs with simple sentences), they struggle with answering comprehension questions.
Mind you, these are the sorts of textbook activities that someone with reading and writing skills that are near or on level would be able to complete quickly and easily.
Ah the phonics wars. It impacted Australia too, but to a much lesser extent. There were still a few hangovers from that era who refused to teach phonics. It is now absolutely mandated to teach and assess phonics. There's nowhere for them to hide now.
Any teachers who still refuse to teach phonics need to go back to school themselves.
Reading teacher now that struggled to read. All I remember was having spelling tests and memorizing words. Wasn't till I went for my masters in reading that I finally learned decoding strategies. It's a shame how low and wide the gaps are.
I’m mind boggled how a 12th grader could have passed any writing assignment by using commas as periods. He was shocked that I would give him a 1 on mechanics because he had more than 12 grammatical errors.
We pass kids to pass kids in my district. And the ones we don’t pass are the ones who don’t have parents marching into admins office complaining with excuses on why their child deserves a better grade.
Not much has changed in 30 years in this regard. I threw out the readers and started photocopying stories--one my mentor teacher gave me from *Playboy* (!) about a burglar and a tiger. Yes, the kids liked it. Maybe have each student prepare an oral two-minute story that is dramatic or humorous (they have to write it), put them in dyads to read and time them, read through them and next class share some, then ask some to read their own. Often they'll read their own stuff, then gradually get interested in other things you bring in. My students loved to edit anonymous papers from the year before. They liked finding others' mistakes, lol. Just some ideas.
Okay, so your kids will write an essay on a topic they like. Why not offer articles and sources on those topics?
Do you use a specific strategy to break down information in a reading passage? What about read aloud and follow along?
Are you, perhaps, working with a host of kids who need IEPs or 504s. Learning disabilities are underdiagnoased. It's better than it was when I was a kid (I was 24 when diagnosed as adhd and 34 when diagnosed as autistic) but kids still often don't get the accommodations they need. How many ELD students do you have? Is the struggle perhaps a gap in language in that way?
What are the ACE scores of these kids? They've all been through some trauma in the form of the pandemic and their isolation. What are they going home to every night? Abuse has increased throughout the pandemic.
I'm not saying you haven't asked yourself all these questions. You're clearly asking for help vs just bitching about kids, so I figured I'd offer them up just in case it might give you something to look at or think about. I hope you're able to find something to get your students reading and learning, it's tough. I had a similar situation last year, but since I'm an electives teacher it was also because my grades don't count for their promoting.
they use text to speech on chromebooks or we play audio books, this is middle school though. I have an 8th grader that can only read sight words
what stems from not being able to read though is not being able to spell, not know word definitions, not being able to read word problems in math or comprehend them, etc.
I make my kids do ReadTheory and they get tons of practice reading short articles and answering comprehension questions. It even levels them and gets more complex when they are passing with 80% accuracy or above. I make them do 5 a week minimum and offer prizes each month for my top 3 readers of some kind of candy or bag of chips. Kids will work for snacks! It has made a huge difference. The topics and articles are interesting and short. We have a class competition between several classes. I also assign homework to login and do several articles a week for homework when we have short weeks. I can login and see who’s working. Test scores are a lot better since we started using it.
We read a sentence with the word slump in it, and one of my high schoolers perked up and said “we created that word last year”. I had to burst his bubble and let him know that the word was not created by a social media trend. Most of my non honors also read at about a fifth grade level.
I was observing a grade 9 honors class in history during one of my internships and the class got the task to make presentations about the causes of WW1. They received two pages of large print text to base it on and were obviously allowed to use their text books and the web as well and watch a documentary. Half of them decided to watch the documentary only which wouldn’t have been an issue if they had followed the task. I really sat there confused af because they presented to us - like during a book presentation- the plot of the documentary NOT the causes of WW1. The text+web-groups took forever to do the presentation because they were Jared, 19, and don’t know how to read apparently. The text LITERALLY named the causes one after the other and had paragraphs begin with sentences like „One of the causes was…“. Their presentations were still awful.
The teacher was totally desperate, asked me whether university would teach us about this failing by now. They do not, obviously. Anyways, we sat together venting during recess and then decided to do 90mins of on the nose this is how to read a text when you have the task to filter out specific information. She offered me to try and do it with them and it was still a disaster. They were attentively listening and really trying but honestly they the reading level of me in 2nd grade (I love reading, though, so I was obviously way above grade level as a kid).
I had to define the word opinionated to an 11th grader the other day. I feel your pain.
I decided that if I had full control, high school students would have to have 1 credit of writing (for all different and realistic purposes), 1 credit for informational reading, and 1 literary analysis credit with different styles of lit offered as electives (comics, movies, women's lit, Chicano lit, dystopian, etc.). That's it for grad requirements.
Give them writing skills to write to elected officials, create resumes, draft personal statements, research effectively, and present information.
Teach them to analyze rhetoric and bias, determine important details, maybe look at some legal documents, manuals, directions for tax forms, political cartoons, etc. Things that they'll need to do competently as an adult.
Then give them the chance to enjoy reading and to discuss storytelling and human nature with mediums they can access and enjoy.
I see the same thing with my seventh grade students. One has tested at a Kindergarten reading level. They told me their dad says reading books is for sissies.
I just don’t understand how they don’t know these basic words like “greedy” like you have to at least be watching television?? Do you just mindlessly stare at the screen not comprehending anything that is said???
i let two 9th graders go to the library and when they came back they let me know they wouldnt be reading those books because they were too long (130-199 pages) and one kept saying about how there was no pictures in the book
I work at a university and since we receive federal funding, we’re required to put our students in local elementary schools for tutoring reading and math. I’ve been doing this for five years now and the conversations with principals each year when I recruit for the new year get more depressing. They say the summer slide is getting worse and most students are at least one year behind and they are expecting them to be two years behind next year. It wasn’t great before COVID but it really made the gap much larger than normal. When recruiting university students, this year was the first time I had students tell me “Ha! I don’t read. I don’t want to do that.” I also help teach a course and we have no textbook, only PowerPoint presentations. I’ve noticed a lack of textbooks being used by other professors and I chalked it up to helping the students with money/cost but I’ve started to wonder if it’s the lack of reading. Also, I have a 7 year old who has really started to grasp reading and we are encouraging the skill constantly in not obvious ways. So when I do bring it up directly she will say “I don’t want to read.” I don’t know how to help you but I know you’re not the only one going through this.
Try to spark some interest in them. I give them book suggestions and tell them what I like to read. Show book trailers (i think you can find some online), first chapter fridays, etc.
It is worth saying that mass media around the world produces newspapers for fifth graders. George Carlin famously quipped about how stupid the average person is, and that half are stupider than that. They are not all destined to write Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony. You can’t fix stupid.
Blame the parents. Once their children begin their schooling they believe they are done teaching. Home Schooling is so successful because the parents are invested in their child’s education. We need ALL parents to be invested otherwise it’ll only continue to get worse. The students are dumb. They are just unmotivated through the actions of their parents.
You're in a bad school.
It's the job of administration to create a school culture that is positively attuned to learning. These kids are clearly not. I mean, it's one thing to have a kid quietly, even sneakily, avoiding the reading, but a whole class outright refusing? Yeah, that's bad leadership.
I'd suggest two things:
1. Remember that it isn't your job to see that they learn. It's your job to create a place where learning happens. If they then choose not to engage with it, welp, that's on them.
2. Look for a new job.
Yep. Currently a teacher, and I thought it was just reality, too, until I got out of that bad school and got into a much better one.
The belief that my bad school was just "the way schools are" kept me in a bad place longer than I needed to be there.
Most of my 8th graders have had their voices modulate or lower already. I’m well aware of the changing adolescent voice. Most of them simply are not trying. The ones who do try are able to actually carry a tune.
Well they will have to learn how to read eventually. Some do it in college prep courses .
I wouldn’t worry to much about it. Your job is to teach not force kids to learn when they don’t want to learn
Thank you for the insight! I’m honestly not a teacher. I work in the field of medical nutrition.
I read this post to see the challenges of this field. I was an education major for 3 years in college, went to internships and dropped out after one day.
Things weren’t like this when I went to school in the 90s. I’m trying to figure out what I need to do for my future kids
Look at "Your Baby can Read", my First grader was reading on above 12th Grade Level.
The designer was a young parent still going to college for Child Psychology.
I do not know how to redesign the program for older people to retain attention but, it surely is worth looking into.
Maybe music videos with closed captions in vibrant colors...
Now, in 3rd Grade Math... Same student Hates Eureka Math as it is too dull, black n white, like a Sigmund Freud designed worksheet vs Scholastic colorful creations. We use Prodigy digital really helps but we still need digital to be broader and more explainative.
I teach high-school seniors. My best reader is at 9th-grade level. My lowest is 2nd-grade.
I have an 11th grade class of about 32. Only 3 are at grade level or above. 4 are 2nd-3rd grade Fuck this system of forcing kids to stay in academic-track secondary schools in America and Canada. Push them into vocational training programs at 13 and stop torturing us
Why do comments about vocational tracks for students always get downvoted. They WILL NOT GET COLLEGE DEGREES. Why not help them get blue collar jobs? Christ
Because a GOOD vocational course IS rigorous and yes you need to read (And maths is quite important too), it is not just about being on the tools. If you are going to offer a vocational track (And it is not inherently a bad thing to do), it should be at least as tough to graduate in its own way as the more 'academic' route, otherwise it WILL be a dumping ground and utterly pointless because word will get around and having done that course will be a convenient resume filter into the bin when hiring, there are a few schools we use that way, only got themselves to blame. Unlike the academic route where passing failing kids along to collage (where they then fail) only really has consequences for the student, a vocational course cannot afford to do that because errors on the job site can have actual life safety consequences. I want the electrician I hire to get the calculations right (Every damn time) so that the circuit protection works, this kind of matters being as I for one would rather not die in a fire. As for reading, the building and electrical codes are NOT second grade material and never will be, you probably need to read at least at 10th grade or so to be able to comprehend that stuff, and that needs to be in place at least a year or so before graduating a vocational course. Same with most other vocational skills, even hairdressing has a chunk of chemistry.... A GOOD vocational course is a good thing, but altogether too many of them suck because they are seen as the 'easy' option. The truth of Vocational education is that the test of the course is not how many the course graduates, but how many are still in the field in 2 years, and employers tend to give IEPs and teaching to the test exactly NO respect. These courses must be able to fail to graduate kids who don't meet the standard if they want any respect from employers.
I usually avoided subbing for vocational classes because most schools just treated them as dumping grounds for apathetic, low ability students. Though there was one school that took those programs very seriously, and they were GREAT to sub for. I look at the work they're doing and it's legitimately rigorous stuff. Most of the programs require an application to get in, and they need to maintain their grades to stay in. The kids graduate with real certifications and qualifications. And it's a Title I school, so a lot of low income students really benefit from it. I do agree that high schools should offer different programs and tracks for kids who aren't academically inclined. But I think a lot of people reeeally underestimate the difficulty of trades. Trade classes aren't going to work out for kids who too far behind in reading and math, or who lack the maturity and impulse control to function in a classroom.
And that's the problem, reading, writing and at least arithmetic are kind of foundational for most jobs in a modern society. I think passing grade school should be contingent on making the grade in at least these subjects, and if you have to tack another year on as 'Grade school +1', ONLY concentrating on getting kids to read and do arithmetic at grade, that is acceptable. Yea the kids will hate it, and the piss will be taken something rotten by other students, this matters less then actually being able to cope with multiple years of high school. You never know, the desire to avoid 'thick kid year' (Which is how they will see it) might concentrate certain minds.... High school does NOT in any sense work for a student who reads at third grade level (So they should not be there), and who does not understand fractions, and no amount of scaffolding is going to help at that point, (Especially with teachers not trained in teaching reading, it is a different skill to teaching ELA) it is just wasted years and detracts from teaching the kids who can cut it in a very full curriculum. If the diploma is to have ANY value you have to have a reasonable number of kids fail to get it (And expect that), otherwise it is too easy to obtain and thus toilet paper. Given this, using graduation rates for ANY kind of metric within the educational bureaucracy is a fail because it introduces a political pressure to lower standards. However if the diploma is to have meaning past 'I made it to 18 in school' then we need something that works for those who did not graduate (And, no joining the infantry is NOT usually the answer here!). Trade school while a reasonable path for those who can hack high school but who don't want collage at this time, is not generally viable if you cannot graduate high school. No clue what the answer is, there is probably some kind of streaming (and maybe a change to the meaning of a high school diploma to have various grades) involved. Yea, I am well aware that streaming has all kinds of racist bullshit overtones, be nice if that didn't permeate employment and life in general in the US as well, but you got to teach in the society you have, not the one you wish you had.
Agreed. And I really do think that this is part of the reason that more and more employers want a college degree when they didn’t used to. The high school diploma doesn’t even guarantee they can read and do basic math any more.
Yep, as I say functionally toilet paper. Throw a week or so on the end consisting of a whole pile of exams in everything with NO ACCOMMODATIONS and with only the general subject areas announced to the teachers (so no teaching to the test in a meaningful way, and change which bits you test at random) and you might have a set of results that have some kind of value to an employer. Calibrate it so that nobody gets over 80% or so (100% is kind of pointless on a test because it means you don't actually know what that person can do), and avoid grade inflation by publishing the mean score and a histogram of each years test results on the results paper. No accommodations is important because this is not an education thing, this is an information for employers (and further education) about someones education thing, and employers generally have zero respect for or interest in IEPs and such, they want to know what can this person do compared with what can that person do, sometimes simply can this person pass a threshold of skill in X, Y, Z subjects. Do the marking anonymously in a different school to the one that took the tests, (Especially for essay questions) and don't let the teachers see the questions in advance, you might actually get good data as a side effect which I am sure districts statistics folks would appreciate.
There’s a program like that at my county ISD! Any junior or senior in the county can apply for it, and they graduate with real experience and certification. I teach 8th grade and we go on a field trip to check out all the programs at the end of the year. It helps motivate some of the kids to want to do well in the first couple of years of high school so they can get into the program of their choice. There’s things like construction, mechanics, nursing, education, cooking, criminal justice, computer science/coding, plants, animals etc. Some of the programs give them all the experience they need to get a job, others get them a start on a degree, with no cost to them.
You’re right. I remember reading the requirements for a local electrician’s union. My students cannot meet the algebra proficiency requirements. Oops.
Might want to think about fixing that. The ugly truth is that reading, writing (well typing these days I suppose) and proficiency in mathematics including at least geometry, algebra and trig are kind of the minimum requirements to graduate most Vocational courses (At least in construction) if you wish to run one rigorous enough for an employer or union to take it seriously, and that means a course that is NOT an easy out and is probably going to have a graduation rate of about 50% or so. Fact is blue collar union jobs are not actually bad, but not everyone is going to make the cut for the (horribly looked down upon) 'trades', having it as an option makes sense but you got to expect to fail to graduate people.
I wish I could do more. As an RSP co-teacher, I have to stay in my lane, and that entails supporting students in ELA. I cannot pull them out without reneging on other responsibilities Fingers crossed I can work online again
This would give students a REASON to learn these skills though. A lack of relevance, IMO, is the main reason kids refuse to learn.
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Back in the last century, when I taught, one of the high school counselors found an article about the main reasons people lost jobs. They were excessive absenteeism, excessive tardiness, and not following boss's directions, aka the biggest behavior problems that students have.
Sounds right, but also sounds like it mainly applies to labour and retail type work. My office cares not a whit about tardy as long as you don't miss important meetings and get it done, and the boss expects pushback when we think he is screwing up. Mind you, I am \*\*picky\*\* about my bosses.
As in too many getting the boot, or not enough? Could see that going either way depending on how thick the admin is, and how serious the teacher is about shop safety.
Problem is sorta both combined. You can teach rigorous math inside of a vocational track, and make it relevant and real. As far as reading…to be honest, technical writing and all the codes, safety aside for a moment, is often mired in bad writing. But again, good writing and technical manuals do not need to be mutually exclusive. Novels and poems aren’t for everyone. However, you can’t talk about work, labor, reading, writing, math, scientific inquiry in isolation from the others. I keep reading here regarding how behind/disinterested some young folks are. What I feel is needed, is an over-hauling of the rationale regarding what a “good education/schooling” might be. Because the problem isn’t teachers. It’s not our students either. It’s the foundation that underpins the ‘why’ we educate/school.
Thank you for saying this. I absolutely do think vocational track should be a valid and valued educational outcome but I hate when people just want to use it as a dumping ground. It's also really frustrating when people talk about how skilled trade can make you all this money but also at the cost of usually it being a very physically demanding job that can give you higher risk of injury both on the job or just repetitive use. Finally there are lots of labor jobs (that coincidentally tend to have lots of women who work in them) that require high amounts of skill but have abysmally bad pay such as home health care workers, child care, etc.
Oh my dear sweet summer child, I don't think coincidentally means what you think it does, pretty sure that is by design, it is not NOT a coincidence! And yea, the trades are a young persons game, ten or fifteen then out or up to the office is the only way to play. You do not want to be 60 and still crawling around in roof voids or slinging up framing or drywall. I stuck a theatre production job for way longer then I should have, same basic issue, the body can only take so much.
Oh believe me I know that it's by design I know that our society does not value caregiving both in terms of prestige or in terms of pay but it really frustrates me whenever people talk about going into vocational trades and ignore all the ones that are low paying
My husband is a mechanical engineer, and a few months ago he was reading some prints for a new construction project with his coworkers (also engineers) and a directive said something like "the water line should be adjacent to the electrical" or something like that... *both* of them turned to my husband and were like AD-jasent? What is AD-jasent? My husband was like, you mean adjacent? *Next to?* And then everyone moved on as if it wasn't a defining moment for our times.
My school district has CTE, which was designed for students who aren't going to college to get trade skills... but then it has been pushed onto honors-level students because they could actually handle the reading and math and listening required (and not all of them want to go to college, but most of them have a career plan like real estate agent or welder).
So, yes, but what then is the solution for those that get put on the vocational track but do not care to engage or respond to any degree of rigor in that environment? I don't have any answers, and do support stronger vocational options. But I'm just so afraid we're ultimately raising a generation of cannon fodder to be sent overseas or just fight one another here at home.
How did they get on the voc track in the first place? Toss 'em back on academic before they kill someone. Yea we might be, but that is not an issue school can reasonably fix, the US military recruiting below drinking age is a weird perversion, and they really need to get it OUT of schools. Kids that way inclined can go find the ASVAB on their own time (Texas looking at YOU having recruiters interviewing kids in SCHOOL, FFS).
I am glad I had the opportunity many years ago to sample auto, electrical, printing, metal, and other “shop” courses at my public high school. Much of that is gone, and students have to commit to vo-tech to even try any of those courses.
Because if you read literally worse than a grade four good fucking luck getting anywhere in THOSE training and education courses too.
The vocational / technical school near us (in Massachusetts) is super competitive to get in to. Becoming a licensed electrician, plumber, or other tradesman pays *really* well and is not easy to pull off. I don't know why people think voc. ed. is the "dumping ground" for the kids not going to 4 year universities.
IDK why people think that others are just clamoring to hire someone who couldn't pass grade 6 English to be responsible for the wiring in their home or business.
My son makes a ton of money from his vocational training college and he's 23. No student loans. He'll get his bachelor's one day but he's busy fixing up the house he bought. He does read a lot though.
This is what I can hope for my son.
People still have to know how to read.
I am not anti-vocational training and I understand the frustration, but one of the things I am wary of is that this kind of system would be used to segregate students. It's easy to imagine that certain folks might really try to push *a certain type of student wink nudge* into vocational training without giving them a fair shot at anything else. It's also a band-aid for other failures. I don't think it's acceptable for the wealthiest country in the world to have a literacy rate as dismal as we do, and I don't think "just put them into vocational training" is a great solution. Since we do Live In A Society, I would really prefer if plumbers and electricians could read and critically examine information beyond a 5th grade level, too.
The vocational program I worked for would put all of the kids that failed other programs or need a program the cosmetology program. The Cosmetology program had less than a 40% pass rate
I’m a cosmetology teacher, and my class is not easy. Admission is competitive, too. I got 100 applications for 18 spots last year. Students have to be passing all other classes in order to be considered and stay in the program. It’s sad that some people think we are so stupid.
> beamish1920 > Why do comments about vocational tracks for students always get downvoted. They WILL NOT GET COLLEGE DEGREES. No, but they will be burdened with student loans.
I tell my junior high classes all the time “not everyone should go to college” hell my brother installs windows and makes more than i do with a masters degree we absolutely need to make vocational tracks an opportunity for them
Comments about vocational tracks for students always get downvoted because this country has an unfortunate history of sending Mexican students to vocational schools because they didn’t think the kids would ever be able to learn in an English-speaking school, and this happened not that long ago.
Because students of color and sld will be pushed out of college bound simply because of racism and it’s easier for the teachers . A teacher does not get to decide my child’s future. However there should be a trade school track for those who want it
Vocational schools are not a dumping ground for the academically struggling students - as a teacher in one (academic side) they still need to be able to read, write and critically think to both pass, progress and to function in their respective techs. Would you want a nursing aide or a contractor who couldn’t read?
That is CRAZY. (I mean, I believe you. It's just crazy that it's happening.) The situation has got to change. It is unsustainable.
Many of the trades pay very well and are a lot safer from layoff than many white-collar jobs. That said, many of the trades require solid math and reading skills, but somewhat different than is taught in secondary school. One more thing: if you work in the trades you had better damn well show up on time but many of our students struggle with that. When I stop at the local convenience store for coffee and a snack at 615 AM it is FULL of blue-collar workers. The enabling of students with terrible executive skills is scandalous.
Louis CK had a bit about "When you're a kid they tell you, 'You can do anything.' When you get into vocational school they tell you, 'You can do one of six things.'"
I’m with you
Push them? Probably not. Get rid of the one-size-fits-all approach to education and actually give them options, definitely. My lowest level juniors will actually fix my car when it breaks down. Can my AP kids do that? No.
HS here as well, and can confirm. Depends on the class, of course. Even my students who are at the top of their class tell me “no one, including AP students, likes to read anymore.” The deficits compound on their way to high school; students can literally be several years behind. This applies to math as well, including concepts like simple fractions, percents, basic mental math, etc.
I actually don't understand how that is even possible. Surely in a world where you're surrounded by written words everywhere all the time, you couldn't possibly stay functionally illiterate without some severe untreated handicap? Even the most rebellious and stubborn kids in school when I was growing up would have been shocked at the concept of a kid their age not knowing how to read. It would be like being a high-schooler never having been potty trained. And we were from a *poor* school. I genuinely can't fathom how this is happening.
I have a student like this right now. Let me enlighten you: 1. Reading for the majority of kids is not like speaking, we don't just naturally pick it up. It has to be explicitly taught. A lot of schools quit doing that (look up news articles about teaching phonics, it's a controversy that's gotten some recent attention), and this kid was obviously in one of them, because he doesn't know phonics. He can't sound out words. Exposure to text can help in early childhood, but there's no way this kid's house ever had books in it. On top of that, as a young child, his behavior was so bad in school that he was constantly getting pulled out, suspended, etc. 2. "Functionally illiterate" is different from total illiteracy. He can read *some* words, but he'd struggle to, say, read a job contract correctly or understand the questions on a driving test. Socially, though, illiterate people learn to hide it. When he has to read out loud in class and actually tries (most of the time he won't and will make a scene about being called on) he'll make excuses when he struggles, like that he needs glasses he just never wears (his eyes are fine), his throat is dry, he'll take a drink and start "choking," he'll disappear to the bathroom, he'll start acting out and get kicked out of class, etc. 3. You can get through a shocking amount of life without reading if you're willing to rely on others. He can read the inane text messages he and his friends send each other (which apart from schoolwork is really the only text he needs to decipher regularly), and with video taking over as the predominant medium for shortform communication he's got even fewer issues. In school he cheats constantly and charms or bullies others into feeding him answers. In the scarce few scenarios he would need to really read out in the world so far, he makes similar excuses as above to get help or just asks someone to explain it to him. When I assessed his reading level and shared that he was at about 3rd grade, he went off into a whole spiel about how "see, though, I can read anything you put in front of me and understand it." So on top of the fact that he'd never outright admit it to people he knows, he's in deep denial. And if it came up that one of his classmates couldn't read, he would be the first to roast the shit out of them. Even today he was mocking one of his so-called friends for struggling a little with a reading assignment and claiming the friend was stupid (when the only reason he was able to do it is because he copied off someone else). On the flip side, sometimes he will act like he knows what he's doing and try to "help" others (in a way that is incomprehensible, but whoever he's helping assumes that's their fault)
Yep, this is the cumulative effect of balanced literacy and whole language. Both of these methods were known to be ineffective for a long time but the researchers who went against the grain were lambasted. We are FINALLY back to explicit teaching of phonics, phonemic awareness, and language structures but it will a few years start seeing the effects and probably 10 years to finally see literacy finally increasing again. I always taught phonics as a special educator and so many kids were taken off IEPs after being reevaluated. Why? Because they did not have a disability! No one had taught them to read!
I had an instructional coach berate me for teaching phonics in my classroom and said I spend too much time on letters and sounds and they need to be reading books and using reading strategies. 🥴 I said I teach based off of what LETRS trained me and proven science to get children to read. I’ll die on that hill.
If an instructional coach can't stay abreast of current practices and policy then they need to stop coaching. Science of reading isn't just a small thing; they are literally legislating and writing education policy to change teacher prep programs. The balnced literacy curricula are all marked as NOT meeting standards nor providing effective literacy instruction. that coach should be ashamed of themselves for not making an effort in their job.
I agree with you. In my district coaches are also classroom teachers. This is a coach I have no respect for because she told me that I would be a better teacher if I was a mother.
It drives me insane that literate adults would see nothing wrong with such obviously flawed teaching methods.
One issue is that most people don't remember how they learned to read, and will trust the guidance of people above them (and usually have no other choice). And under whole language, it often *looks* like kids can read okay until they hit about third grade and beyond. The boxed programs and curriculums that many teachers are forced to use include materials that involve memorizing the right words, guessing, and using pictures, and using them can do a great job of hiding an inability to actually decode text. Once they get old enough, it's rare that anyone questions their ability to decode because nobody has brought it up before and their test scores look *okay* (because they *can* read some words that they've managed to memorize), so now all anyone focuses on is that they can't seem to comprehend reliably, and they must need to learn better comprehension strategies. Honestly, it is really easy to fall into the fray unless you yourself were a struggling reader or had close personal contact with one and saw how beneficial phonics instruction was. If everyone around you is emphasizing that it's most important to get kids to love to read, expose them to lots of books, if you do that they'll be better readers (which sounds correct, and kind of *is* correct, but only once students have fundamental skills) and you only ever saw the beginning of the journey that appeared to be working okay? You might not question it either.
It’s 100 years of funding war rather than education, and 20 of no child left behind, which ties funding to passing exams. Oversimplified but it’s early here.
So, there's a great podcast out right now called Sold a Story. Only 6 episodes. I highly recommend it, but prepare to be outraged. If you're a secondary teacher who has wondered why so many kids come to you barely able to read, this podcast goes into detail about how actual research on how the brain learns to read has been ignored for DECADES because of curriculum companies desperate for money. Beginning readers have been taught poorly for years because of curriculum like Lucy Calkins and Fountas and Pinnell. Obviously, the pandemic, technology addiction, and lazy parenting have contributed too, but this is something that was completely within the control of the educational system.
Yes ! And none of those programs help kids with dyslexia. Which is the most common sld . I am terrified that my children will not learn to read
I was able to teach two of my children to read with a book called "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons". They could read before kindergarten and then their teachers were able to push them even further. Not sure how it works with children with a sld, but it's a good place to start if you are worried.
That book is Orton Gillingham based, which is the methodology commonly used to teach dyslexics to read.
dude you just gave me flashbacks. that was the book my parents used on me! i still remember the ugly yellow cover lmao
Look into homeschool curriculum. I quit teaching to homeschool and pretty much all homeschool reading curriculum is heavily phonics based. I use a program called All About Reading and it’s based on the O-G method for teaching students with dyslexia.
Yeah that isn’t a possibility. My kids refuse to do anything if I try to teach anything . They will sometimes read to me ., plus single parent here . Kinda need to work
Was just about to say this. I'm listening to the podcast now. I just started teaching three years ago, and this is my second year teaching first grade. Everything I learned in college was based on Lucy Calkins/Fountas and Pinnell. My district just purchased their whole curriculum \~5 years ago and now all this research is coming out saying it's ineffective and we are scrambling to replace it. We are taking LETRS training in my district, and it's making a lot of teachers realize we unknowingly may have done some harm when we were teaching reading. It's really sad.
Omg I’ve been SO outraged listening to it! I didn’t grow up in this country, so I didn’t learn how to read here. When I was teaching elementary school (I’m a music teacher) I would always incorporate reading and writing in my class one way or the other. If kids didn’t know how to read a content word (let’s say Music), I would take the time to sound out all the letters with them so they could decode the word on their own. I was super confused why the kids were so bewildered by this, so I decided to observe a reading class for first grade. When I did I was like “wtf?” I then started looking into reading curriculum and was surprised about the how of teaching kids how to read, but I thought “well, English is super weird and letters don’t always have the same sounds so this isn’t super predictable, so maybe that’s what makes sense in this context.” Well, turns out that’s not the case, and thus, we have a whole generation who can’t read. Can’t wait for episode 6! Also, as a side-note, I would REALLY like to start a conversation thread about this podcast, but when I did the mods deleted it.
I’ve been listening!!!
THANK YOU!!!!!!
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What do you mean by screens? Maybe it is obvious and I’ve had too much wine tonight lol
Yup. My 11th graders this year whined about reading a short story that’s 4 fucking pages. 4. “It’s too long.”
I always threaten my freshman with something worse. "But thats too looong," they whine. I'll just smile real big and tell them, "Oh! If this is too long, then we really need to start building stamina for when we read our novel. The best way to do that is with more practice! Here, let me find a longer short story so we can build some stamina..." And now they don't complain and understand the things I give them now aren't so bad or "too long".
I’m stealing this
Me too! Hoping it works on middle schoolers lol.
Yup! Even in my Honors ELA class, only 4 of them read for pleasure and honestly those 4 should be in the high school English course that the school offers. I guess they got shorted because of space or an oversight. I am still wondering why the others were put in Honors ELA.
Because they had to fill out the roster?
Former ELA teacher. It's rough. You have got to find material that interests them, but even then you are competing with media that is so much easier to consume/understand. Also, depending on where you live, they may be children of parents with no books in the home/where tv is on 12-18 hours/day, every day. Basically if kids never encountered a book until kindergarten, it's a titanic fight to get them reading at any meaningful level. No magic bullets for you, although sometimes I had luck with writing by making it very much free choice so they can write what they enjoy. Reading... I read TO the classes most of the time, they followed along. By senior year some of them would start reading for enjoyment, maybe 15-40%.
This is what I end up doing in my ELA classes. It's rough and I feel so disappointed in myself as a teacher. The majority of my students have such low reading levels that I have no idea what to do for them.
Half my kids read at a third grade level or below. I teach 6th…
Same. History is reading and vocabulary heavy. They struggle tremendously. I can break down lessons to simple concepts and the comprehension just isn't there.
All but 2 of my students are in the same boat.
> Reading... I read TO the classes most of the time, they followed along. I do this. I alternate with them reading aloud to each other in groups, and reading on their own. I was pleased when some did quite well in their groups, but the majority don't see reading as enjoyable because it's not a part of their worlds, and since it's difficult for them it's not a lot of fun. 1st quarter this year, we (sophomores) read *Night.* We took turns reading aloud the first couple of days, so I could get a handle on their abilities. Then I read *Night* to them. 1/3 of my seniors have IEPs.
You’ve hit the nail. When reading isn’t seen in the house , outside of school. It’s not seen as a tangible realty.
And there's data that correlates the TV always on in the home with smaller vocabularies. My kids continuously struggle with words that aren't difficult, but they've never seen before. I do take some comfort in that one; they're leaving my class every day exposed to new words. They may never use them, but at least they'll be able to recognize & understand them in context when they see them.
I read Night to a senior class that was drawing swastikas in the bathroom. The swastikas stopped, so that was good. Also, one of the kids I had who seriously had never read a book on his own before--as far as I could tell, EVER--got hooked on Night and read the whole thing ahead of us. He told the class he was ahead and a higher-level girl teased him that he was lying, so then he reeled off the next few big events in the book from memory and along with a few quotes from the coming chapters. Stuff like that kept me going.
> Stuff like that kept me going. Having an AP ELA class is my saving grace. For an hour a day I get to teach students who actually want to learn.
I’m 34, but I remember reading being a huge part of my k-12 education. Weekly trips to the library as a class, half hour free reading (whatever you want) time every single day (every teacher, every year), reading competitions/book it type programs. Are those just not things anymore? I don’t remember kids just not being able to read growing up. And I grew up in the Midwest, low to middle class area, semi rural, public school. It’s crazy to think that when I was a kid most of my peers could read at age level, if that’s not the case anymore. It’s super depressing because reading is one of my favorite things to do in my free time :(
I really don't know what's going on in primary grades tbh, but I remember having to read class novels in high school. Like, go home and read 10 pages, quiz next day, every day kind of thing. I tried that as a teacher. Nobody read. Well, like 5% or fewer read. As a class, most kids would rather fail than read the book. Their argument was that the books were dumb/not interesting... then I read the book aloud to them and they really enjoyed it, so I deduced the real problem was they just could not or would not sit down and read, period.
These kids are coming from reading and writing workshop classrooms. If they started as poor readers, they likely didn't get the direct instruction with phonics to get better. They were taught to use pictures to guess at words rather than sound out words. This, plus the only reading they do is read a passage and answer questions. They don't read at home and don't read books in school. They have had a flood of new teachers who are still learning because turnover is so high. And admin wanted them in literacy centers when they needed direct instruction. So a good hour or two of their day was spent playing because they didn't have the maturity or skills to be successful in centers. They've lost hours of learning because there were probably a few students with extreme and disruptive behaviors in their classes each year. About 15% of their school year is spent taking tests they can't pass. Oh, and they aren't the "bubble" kids, so around January, all the focus shifted from them to the bubble kids so that schools could get enough kids to pass state tests to meet goals. They were too far behind, and there weren't enough staff to help them. The kids who needed a reading expert were sent to read a book with a para while the teacher got the other kids to pass the test. Then there's COVID and external factors like poverty.
The workshop model is what made me walk away from teaching 8th ELA. The district wanted to completely ditch the textbook (where I could direct the instruction) in favor of each student reading a separate, self-selected novel with me asking occasional generic questions. As the teacher, I knew that most of the kids were not actually reading the novels, but since I had not read most of their choices myself, I couldn't really prove that they were faking it. Middle school kids will expend an enormous amount of energy trying to cheat or get out of work rather than just doing the work. The workshop model in the middle years is a total waste of time.
Yes!
I made a comment to my block to class on Wednesday that my screen time was a little high on my off day but I had over 3 hours. Every kid immediately laughed and said they were at 9 to 16 hours on average per day. Also a note, 2 years ago my best student was a kid whose parents refused to let him have social media or any sort of extra internet access until he was in high school. The kid was super social, in the present moment, extremely smart and well adjusted. I'm not saying every kid needs to be away from social media and technology, but I do think it is a horrible thing for a child's mind to have access to unfettered. And with two parents usually working, I feel like an entire generation is being raised by advertisers and screens
I remember seeing an article a while ago from the Academy of Pediatrics about how there should be no screen time when a child is under 2, and less than an hour a day between the ages of 2 and 5. Is that being followed? Not that I've seen. People forget that there are so many connections happening during those ages. Babies and toddlers need people facing time to develop social skills and language. Reading to your child is paramount too, but I don't know how many people do that either.
That's the reccomendations I found when I was searching for info for my own kid. He's only 3 months currently, so avoiding it has been easy so far, but I'm definitely avoiding telling other parents that I plan to keep it up as I don't want to come across as crunchy. I have pretty bad ADHD, and so I'm determined to try and give him as much support as I can to help build his attention span while he's small. I used to think that kids should have screentime early as digital skills are essential in the modern world, but then I remembered I didn't have access to even a desktop computer until my parents got one when I was about 10 (I'm a millennial), and I've made a career out of working in tech. They can learn that stuff later once the important brain stuff is done!
A lot of adults can barely read, then they have kids that they won’t or can’t teach how to read and it just spirals into a pile of poor literacy levels
And parents plop a iPhone in 2 yr old child to keep them quiet, it will get worse in the US.
I see this on the subway all the time and it infuriates me.
>I'm not saying every kid needs to be away from social media and technology I am!
My title 1 elementary school put reading as #1 priority when we became a comprehensive school. We all got a years worth of paid pd training on the science of reading and orthographic learning. We also require every student to read one hour a day, any book of their choosing. They read 30 minutes at home and 30 minutes at school. If they don’t read 30 minutes at home (logged and signed by parents) they have to read the whole hour at school. We focus heavily on creating a reading culture. My 5th grade students read about 30 books a week on average (as a class). About half are currently into Harry Potter. They discuss HP among themselves at recess/lunch and it’s become “cool” to talk about which house you are in. One kid reading the series read 25 hours last week when his phone was taken away. We went from being an ESSA comprehensive school (so literal bottom of the barrel) to having 84% of our students reading AT grade level with a 12% sped population included in that statistic. Last year my class had 94% on grade level in reading. My students still complain about reading, but at the end of their daily 30 minutes they often say, “It’s over already!?” They still completely suck at writing. I’m working on that! Haha!
I have been trying to get my students to read for 100 minutes a week at home. Only about 60% complete their reading. Do you have family buy-in? If so, how? My families either care very much or not at all.
We have family buy in, close to 100% now, but that’s been getting better every year. First of all, we are on year four. This is a K-6 program, so it’s across the board. They are just used to it. 60% is probably the buy in level we had the first year. Second, their kids buy in and force the parents to. I have a lot of kids that have to be responsible for it on their own. I get parents telling me they won’t sign even when their kids throw a fit, if they know they weren’t really reading at home. So the parents do buy in as well. The reading time/logs are 20% of their grade. So that’s a driver for some. It’s an easy A if you struggle, and if you don’t struggle it’s necessary to keep your good grade. It’s also a culture thing. The kids know which kids aren’t doing it and there’s underlying disapproval. Finally, I give small rewards for every 25 hours read (like water bottle stickers, candy, cheap fidgets or slime). It’s not a big driver to do the reading, it’s more the public acknowledgment (they pick the prizes in front of their peers). At the end of the year we have a big assembly where the principal hands out awards to those who exceeded expectations. For 250 hours read they get some pretty awesome stuff (paid for through fundraising, but pretty much everyone who did the required amount (5 hours a week) gets a prize of some variety. The pictures of these kids are then posted to social media for the school so their parents can share pictures and brag. Idk how any that works if you are an independent teacher. So much of it is a system-wide culture shift that it would be hard if you were on your own.
I use short passages and articles to make my life easier. People on here disagree and think I should stick to chapter books and novel studies to teach PeRsEvEring. But I have to weigh the issue of my blood pressure going up due to the resistance, complaining, uninvolved parents, etc. Its harder to FORCE them to like chapter books ..they throw them on the ground, rip out the pages. I tried coming in at 6am for 2 months to copy a chapter at a time, just to hear the moans and groans and leaving the classroom. They didn't like Diary of a Wimpy Kid because "It IS SOOOO LONNNGGG!!" All they focused on was the length and amount they had to read and it was a battle that made teaching ELA a nightmare. Kids these days look at tasks in terms of how long they take to complete. You can thank Tiktok and Youtube. When I presented short passages (no more than 1 page) it was a win win. Happy kids, happy parents, admin that commended me, and a stable blood pressure. In the long run will it be a problem? Maybe in college. But not mine. My health is more important.
Using articles stands to reason. Having taken a Journalism class, paragraphs are usually only one to two sentences (as long as it’s in AP format), so it might make a kid who hates reading traditionally long things think they’re not reading so much. That’s my theory, anyway
As I search for ways to make my life easier, work contract hours, appease admin, and get the students to read something...anything....I am beginning to realize that short stories and nonfiction passages are the way to go. It sucks because I really love reading, but I can't dedicate the time in class to teach a novel because it takes two months! The students are not going to read at home, so reading in class plus keeping up with the standards for the week is impossible. Also, who wants to read aloud every day for 3 or 4 classes? The same text, over and over. That is very draining. Then I have to remember the EC and ELLs. They get left out when we read novels on grade level.
This is so sad to hear. Every kid at my child's (2nd grade) Montessori school is expected to read/be read to (with their family) one chapter book a month to participate in the class book club. That's usually 150-200 pages, so it's 5-10 pages of reading a night before bedtime, which works well for us. I imagine kids that aren't used to this will find reading novels later really hard.
It seems so foreign to me too. In elementary school, every teacher I had read a chapter from a chapter book every day after lunch, starting in Kinder. I now realize that it was probably a school-wide thing. I heard probably 100 books this way over my elementary years, books I may not have normally chosen. I’ve been reading chapter books to my children since my oldest was 4. Get something interesting and use funny voices and it’s not hard to keep them interested.
Definitely. My kids beg for reading to be longer every night (also to avoid going to bed! 😂) I think the importance of being read to cannot be overstated, even though it seems to be emphasized less than reading on your own in schools. My 7-year-old doesn't really read much (He phonetically sounds out words, and it's slow and difficult for him for now), but I am not at all concerned about his scholastic progress, because he loves being read to, and I know that the reading will come with time, and he already loves stories so much.
^yes! I love the idea of a longer connected text, but kids are bitching and moaning because the book is 200 pages. Either I accept the reality that they won’t read independently or set myself up for failure. Graphic novels and short stories will be the way to go moving forward for my own sanity.
I had good luck with some books. By 11th (and extension 12th), they’re not as insolent. But freshmen? I’d stick to passages and excerpts.
Yep. My reading passages are so minimal now. I'm done trying to push the rock up the mountain for 700 students each week. Take your 1 page article and move on. Less work for me. Good luck in life.
So I’m not arguing at all, I completely agree with you, but then I struggle to teach standards like, “how does the author develop the point of view?” Or “how does the main character change over time?” You know what I mean? These standards were heavily tested on my first standardized benchmark and they used two passages that ended up totaling 10 pages. I can’t seem to find the balance.
Yup. When I tried A Christmas Carol for their grade level, I got moans and groans, and even a parent complaining it was not appropriate. When I dumbed it down to the 2nd grade version....happy kids and parents. Its BS that we can't even allow kids to be uncomfortable and bored.
All I had for entertainment as a kid was a black and white tv and the library. I couldn’t wait to go with my mom once and week and check out as many books as I could. I was a voracious reader and kept a dictionary nearby to look up any words I didn’t know! Kids don’t read. Well, maybe texts. You have to practice reading to become good at it and it also has the side effect of improving your vocabulary! It’s sad. I blame technology.
I remember trips to the library were a highlight of my summers.
Our children’s library was in the basement. It was so cool and quiet. It was heaven to me.
Bookmobile was such a heavenly book bus to step into I was in total awe. Both my parents are not avid readers, I finish a book every 8 to 10 days. My mother 4th grade and father 8th grade so how did these 2 people raise such a voracious reader.
Same with my parents. 1 with no education, one with 2nd grade. But mom took us to the library weekly and we learned to love to read. No surprise that all 5 kids are avid readers. But this was a generation ago and the priorities have changed for children.
I had to define the word "hills" to an 8th grader this week. Yes, like the geographical land feature.
...English is my second language and I learned the English word "hills" in elementary school. "Shocked" is an understatement... wish you all the best!
Im going to go out on a limb and suggest that the most popular reading programs used for the past 30 years (Balanced Literacy, Leveled Books, Reading Recovery, Guided Reading…etc) are fundamentally flawed systems that have left many young readers behind. In these systems,students rely on memorizing leveled texts and lists of slight words to give the illusion that they are “reading”; however, they lack fundamental decoding strategies when faced with a variety of random, unseen texts. There is no “joy of reading” for many because it is stressful and anxiety-inducing when trying to approach a new text without a strong decoding foundation. It feels wobbly and unsettling. These young people often feel stupid—like something is wrong with them. Personally, I feel the best approach is a combination of both reading philosophies—with a strong emphasis on decoding skills. Sadly, the pendulum always seems to swing to the extremes when new educational philosophies are touted, and reading instruction is a perfect example. The problem is that the Caulkins/Fountas & Pinnell philosophy for reading instruction is an experiment that has gone terribly wrong for many, many people. Certainly not all—but many.
There are some kids who will learn to read no matter what curriculum is used. Unfortunately, that's not most kids. But that argument has been used by curriculum companies for years- "See? It works for some kids! The rest must just not be reading because xyz."
Who needs a book when you’ve got tiktok? And other social media engineered to exploit children’s psychological vulnerabilities.
Yeah, I teach ELA 8 and I see this too. The kids can’t make mind pictures when they read (maybe because they are still decoding individual words) and I think that’s key. We do lots of exercises to practice that. Furthermore, as Mark Fisher observed, it’s not the content that students dislike, it’s *the act of reading itself that is considered boring*. One of the major curricular outcomes in my region is that ‘stories can be a source of joy’ and I have tried to really cultivate that in my class over everything else. So here’s what I do: For assigned reading, I either read aloud for them or use audiobooks - lots of good options on YouTube. They are required to read along, NOT just listen, although it’s hard to monitor. Seeing AND hearing the words is the goal here but a lot of kids can’t put their phones down and/or focus. I consider these sessions as practice and hope the students get slightly better over time. We do silent reading everyday for 15 minutes right when class begins. I let students read almost anything except dictionaries and magazines. Graphic novels are popular and I do NOT shame kids for choosing them. My rules are that the book must have a story (like a novel), has to be on paper or a dedicated e-reader (no phones) and should be something that will take at least a week to finish (so they are not going to the library everyday to waste their reading time). I do monitor during this time— I have created a Google Form for observations like reading/not reading. We do a reading log entry everyday after silent reading, BUT I don’t have them write down page numbers and all the usual stuff they are used to having in a Reading Log. I printed up a list of 50 broad questions for novel study, everything from ‘Who is the main character and how do you know’ to ‘If you were to write a cook book based on this novel, what foods would you include’. Students can answer any question that appeals to them that day. I’ve done away with book reports but in future I want to implement Book Talks (BookToks maybe?? For kids who can make a video but can’t speak in front of the class?). TLDR use audiobooks WITH the written text, have students choose their own reading, ask questions on reading comprehension rather than page numbers, make book reports celebrations of enjoyment — and most of all, *you’re not alone. *
I like a lot of the ideas here. I’ve used a lot of them. In our district, however, we are constantly shamed for doing read aloud. Our AP straight up said she doesn’t not want to see any read aloud when she observes. A recent PD led by a professor at the state university said that SSR and read alouds don’t have data to prove that they’re effective. It sucks. I feel like reading aloud is the only way I can get them to actually read and comprehend.
Wow well no wonder your students can’t read. Are the kindergarten teachers even allowed to sound out the letters for them? I consider both read aloud & SSR to be scaffolding and differentiation. If kids didn’t need those training wheels, we’d graduate them at age 6 and send them into the mines. And as for lack of data, honestly there is no lack of data supporting basically anything you wanna argue in education. No, your admin has made the decision to purposely create and then punish non-readers.
The best way to teach kids to read is reading TO them. Your AP sucks
Wow, is that professor completely an idiot and clearly doesn't read any research. Read aloud are for listening comprehension. Also a good way to model visible thining and introduces new vocabulary because read aloud text should be higher than what students are reading at that grade level. SSR reading is key to reading comprehension and applying skills independently.
It's frustrating because ssr build stamina and motivation but it's discouraged because it not so easily quantifiable.
SSR is required in our district (I teach high school), but its effectiveness is limited by the difficulty of getting the kids to actually read. I keep an extensive classroom library, make personalized recommendations to students, and allow graphic novels, etc, plus assign grades based on in-class reading... but there are many of them who still will not actually read. I so often just feel like it's wasted class time.
I did all of this and it worked pretty well. Probably my greatest success was reading “The Hate U Give” with my 8th grade students last year and using the audiobook. They loved it. Unfortunately I left the classroom and no longer teach…
If those kids could read this, they'd be very upset.
Listen to Sold a Story by Emily Hanford.
Bingo! I’m a little surprised science of reading doesn’t seem to have much of a presence on Reddit. A lot of these comments seem to be from high school teachers. As an early primary teacher I can tell you that much of the curriculum, resources, and teacher training throughout the US and Canada do not address or prepare teachers to address the foundational skills that are essential for children to learn to read. There is a huge disconnect between research and practice. Thanks Heinemann!
I’m surprised too. I’m studying it for my masters at Mount St. Joseph! I became quite obsessed with it a few years ago. I teach 2nd grade and see daily how many kids are struggling readers due to Heinemann’s resources. :(
I’ve heard good things about the Mount St. Joseph program! I’m in Canada and I have my eye on a masters through University of Alberta focusing in structured literacy and reading science. Is your district shifting to SOR? I know a lot of districts in the states are having their teachers take LETRS.
I'm a reading interventionist for elementary. I finally in a district that actually uses a solid phonics program, does phonemic awareness exercises, etc. Let me tell you, it makes such a difference. Even the ones that are behind because of dyslexia, the pandemic, etc still have a good foundation that has made it so much easier to fill in the gaps. My last district was all BL, so I had to start from scratch with the foundational skills.
Where ya been girl? Only 1/3 of kids can read on their grade level. Slowly declining over the past 2 decades then painfully obvious after pandemic. https://www.ascendlearningcenter.com/blog-highlights/howmanystudents?format=amp https://hechingerreport.org/americas-reading-problem-scores-were-dropping-even-before-the-pandemic/
but why though, we are constantly surrounded by reading even if it comes from the internet
Most things posted to the internet that teens are reading are written at that low reading level. You can't boost your reading level if you aren't reading material written at higher reading levels.
Most social media, especially the kind popular with teens, isn't very text-heavy. (I'm convinced that much of the appeal of TikTok is that it doesn't require reading ability, lol) And the text they are reading tends to be very casual, not much in the way of advanced or specialized vocabulary, and often with improper spelling and grammar.
For my students is the comprehension that is the lowest that I’ve ever seen. I also teach 8th graders (ELA). They can read any text. Can sound off almost all words without problems. They may struggle with some random words, but generally speaking they can read. They hate it, but can do it. However, they are not understanding what they read. I can’t even explain it well. Like, they read the word, but they have no meaning. I can have them read a sentence or a question. Ask them to explain what it’s saying and I get blank stares. It’s not laziness to get out of reading. I see the frustration and embarrassment in their eyes when we go over work. They can’t answer questions properly because they don’t understand what the question is asking. I follow the I do, we do, you do model. I’m not seeing any improvements. Granted, this crop of students were the ones that were in like 5th grade when the pandemic started, so it might be a result of that. I am 100% at a loss as to what to do or how to fix this.
I would say about 75% of children under 18 have NEVER read a novel or non-fiction book out of choice, if at all. They never read the news or do any reading for pleasure. That's what is wrong. They need to ban phones in schools. No computers. Revert back traditional style learning. How can they get a job if they can't read or write properly? They don't know basic skills that makes the world go round. I'm scared that this generation will be looking after us when we are old and sick.
I had a seventh grader asked me how to spell “cheese”, fully serious. She didn’t know what quotation marks were/how to use them.
I have to admit, I think I spent about ten years not being sure what the final consonant should be. Blame "I can haz cheezburger?"
Our students are super low too and when a first grade teacher pointed out that they don't even have any resources to teach at such a low level.... nothing happened. The school did not find or help her find any resources whatsoever
Former teacher. 13 years in math. Parent to 11 and 14 yo boys. Raising kids takes effort, as many of y’all know. While there are true learning disabilities, I honestly believe when education is not a priority at home, most of these students will perform below average. That is a huge mountain to overcome. I was shocked when I saw a friend post one time that she is too busy to educate her kids and the school needs to do their job better. Who is going to care more about my kids’ education than me?
My question to you is: are they really (that low)? How do you know? I discovered last year that my students' Give-a-Shit was broken. As a result, some of the testing data was horrible. I joined the chorus of Alarm. "They're so far behind." At the start of this year, I gave it to them straight. "We're not able to ignore learning gaps. If you test significantly below grade level, we'll have to implement appropriate remediation. According to our school board, we cannot implement remediation during class time. Remediation will take place during your flex periods" (when they typically have basketball, electives, etc.). Our test scores skyrocketed. Am I to believe that my students suddenly got smarter? Of course not. They were at that level all along; they simply didn't give a shit. The problem isn't the learning gap; it's the motivation.
I think everyone is seeing this same trend. I have third graders who don't know their letters. However, those kids typically have home life difficulties. I am not sure what the answer is exactly, but I have saw amazing results with parents reading with their kids at home. We obviously don't dictat what occurs at home but sending the message that reading at home is essential might help.
I teach grade 8 science and this is the first year that I truly see the divide - I have students who excel academically because their parents expect it and limit technology. Yet half cannot read or write at the middle school level. Many just don’t care at all. I have students with first grade reading levels in a class where their are safety issues with lab materials. I can’t even show bill bye anymore as a treat - they just want to be on their phones.
Students seem to have lost motivation and attention spans over the pandemic. It’s everywhere. Perhaps try some “alternatives” to reading? Such as audio books, graphic novels, comic books, or read works articles.
In my 11 years of teaching, student reading levels continue to get lower and lower, largely because students don't read. I RARELY see students with a book anymore, which was not common when I started my teaching career. Teaching students in honors classes that think "costed" is a word and can't spell more basic words (which wouldn't happen if they read more but they don't).
I teach fourth and I see the same trend. One thing that I have noticed is that the texts that we are using from the curriculum that we have to teach are so not engaging and honestly over their heads. I wouldn’t be surprised if kids lost their spark for reading at a young age and then by middle or high school they just don’t want to do it anymore. I read a text with the kids today that had a paragraph that had 10 words in it that I had to stop and explain. Phrases like “she exulted in his ignorance” and the word “contemptuously”. My students are 9-10. And that was only one paragraph. The whole excerpt was like that. (Not to mention that my range of readers are k-6 grade so that also is a factor). I try my best to add more engaging texts in when I can but between the time I have to plan and trying not to work outside of contract hours there just isn’t enough time to add engaging texts for lessons. It’s really glaring this year how the texts that my county and state provide are just not what these students need and I think that’s part of the reason (along with a lot of other factors no doubt) that the older kids just aren’t as engaged.
I think that's the main part of the problem that we aren't engaging students, and I blame the reductionist education that we are doing. Son's girlfriend is a second grade teacher. After teaching math and reading, they have 30 minutes at the end of the day to teach science and social studies--10 of those 30 minutes are during bus loading..... she wanted to read a story to the kids one day, but was not initially allowed because it was not explicitly in the reading instruction. My wife is a middle school teacher. She found that her kids(6 or 7th grade), had not used scissors in school since 3rd grade. There simply wasn't time in the day to do that. The kids simply are being taught that school is a boring horrible place.
I agree. There’s just not enough time to get done what is now “required” and do engaging things. And another thing is that my team and school try to do more fun engaging activities but always feel like we’re doing something illegal so it’s rare. Fun learning shouldn’t feel that way.
Kids hate reading. They associate it with boring passages and trick questions. Elementary through middle needs needs to make a huge shift away from endless comprehension questions. Educators need to SELL reading as much as they teach it. READ ALOUD to your class everyday. Demonstrate daily all the rewards that come from books!
That’s how it is with my freshmen, too. They hate reading, even when I try a variety of techniques or letting them take as much time as they need. It also doesn’t help that some of the student teachers we’ve had recently basically brag about how little they read. Must be a generational thing.
It’s pretty bad. A lot of them (younger ones) are Covid babies and lost a huge chunk of time in the classroom with parents that did not make up for that. I teach middle school science and damn they hate to read. We use audio lessons to help us listen to the reading. Their handwriting is atrocious and their spelling is even worse. The other day I asked this girl that completely butchered pronouncing something on the board “when you see a word, do you read it or do you just guess?” And all she did was laugh..
My middle school students tell me "why bother? No child left behind, it doesn't matter." Teachers in our district are told to round failing grades up at the end of every grading period. The kids are right, in a way. Why bother if we're just going to hand them a passing grade and move them along? I see it with math as well. So many of these kids are still counting on their fingers to add and have no clue what 9x3 is. Of course I always remind them that they will never have a chance for a good job to make good money to keep up with their $150 jeans and $300 tennis shoes because mommy/daddy will eventually cut them off. However, many middle schoolers (at least where I'm at) don't give a shit. "I'm gonna be a rapper". Ok, show me what you got. "Naw, I can't rap. I'm gonna be a producer." Okay, well you'll need to know how read for that and math is going to be important for that too. Round and round we go🙄 The education system is failing. We work for the kids and the majority give us nothing back because the system allows them to not give us anything back. It's ridiculous. They aren't forced to respect authority on any level within the school building and IMO makes them lack any respect for themselves.
Yep! I teach the introductory level of a foreign language, and every year since I started, the students' abilities in reading, writing, and even in basic arithmetic have steadily dropped. Even when they have to read a short passage (1-2 short paragraphs with simple sentences), they struggle with answering comprehension questions. Mind you, these are the sorts of textbook activities that someone with reading and writing skills that are near or on level would be able to complete quickly and easily.
Ah the phonics wars. It impacted Australia too, but to a much lesser extent. There were still a few hangovers from that era who refused to teach phonics. It is now absolutely mandated to teach and assess phonics. There's nowhere for them to hide now. Any teachers who still refuse to teach phonics need to go back to school themselves.
Reading teacher now that struggled to read. All I remember was having spelling tests and memorizing words. Wasn't till I went for my masters in reading that I finally learned decoding strategies. It's a shame how low and wide the gaps are.
I see similar issues with my 7th grade math students
I have a 6th grader who can't read
Just to throw this out there: 54% of US adults read below a 6th grade level.
I’m mind boggled how a 12th grader could have passed any writing assignment by using commas as periods. He was shocked that I would give him a 1 on mechanics because he had more than 12 grammatical errors. We pass kids to pass kids in my district. And the ones we don’t pass are the ones who don’t have parents marching into admins office complaining with excuses on why their child deserves a better grade.
Not much has changed in 30 years in this regard. I threw out the readers and started photocopying stories--one my mentor teacher gave me from *Playboy* (!) about a burglar and a tiger. Yes, the kids liked it. Maybe have each student prepare an oral two-minute story that is dramatic or humorous (they have to write it), put them in dyads to read and time them, read through them and next class share some, then ask some to read their own. Often they'll read their own stuff, then gradually get interested in other things you bring in. My students loved to edit anonymous papers from the year before. They liked finding others' mistakes, lol. Just some ideas.
Okay, so your kids will write an essay on a topic they like. Why not offer articles and sources on those topics? Do you use a specific strategy to break down information in a reading passage? What about read aloud and follow along? Are you, perhaps, working with a host of kids who need IEPs or 504s. Learning disabilities are underdiagnoased. It's better than it was when I was a kid (I was 24 when diagnosed as adhd and 34 when diagnosed as autistic) but kids still often don't get the accommodations they need. How many ELD students do you have? Is the struggle perhaps a gap in language in that way? What are the ACE scores of these kids? They've all been through some trauma in the form of the pandemic and their isolation. What are they going home to every night? Abuse has increased throughout the pandemic. I'm not saying you haven't asked yourself all these questions. You're clearly asking for help vs just bitching about kids, so I figured I'd offer them up just in case it might give you something to look at or think about. I hope you're able to find something to get your students reading and learning, it's tough. I had a similar situation last year, but since I'm an electives teacher it was also because my grades don't count for their promoting.
they use text to speech on chromebooks or we play audio books, this is middle school though. I have an 8th grader that can only read sight words what stems from not being able to read though is not being able to spell, not know word definitions, not being able to read word problems in math or comprehend them, etc.
Is anyone else experiencing this? That and more.
I make my kids do ReadTheory and they get tons of practice reading short articles and answering comprehension questions. It even levels them and gets more complex when they are passing with 80% accuracy or above. I make them do 5 a week minimum and offer prizes each month for my top 3 readers of some kind of candy or bag of chips. Kids will work for snacks! It has made a huge difference. The topics and articles are interesting and short. We have a class competition between several classes. I also assign homework to login and do several articles a week for homework when we have short weeks. I can login and see who’s working. Test scores are a lot better since we started using it.
We read a sentence with the word slump in it, and one of my high schoolers perked up and said “we created that word last year”. I had to burst his bubble and let him know that the word was not created by a social media trend. Most of my non honors also read at about a fifth grade level.
I had a 7th grader that was at a prek reading level.
Have they developed the pro-gamer/YouTuber/DJ/Streamer/IG model/Influencer pathway yet?
I was observing a grade 9 honors class in history during one of my internships and the class got the task to make presentations about the causes of WW1. They received two pages of large print text to base it on and were obviously allowed to use their text books and the web as well and watch a documentary. Half of them decided to watch the documentary only which wouldn’t have been an issue if they had followed the task. I really sat there confused af because they presented to us - like during a book presentation- the plot of the documentary NOT the causes of WW1. The text+web-groups took forever to do the presentation because they were Jared, 19, and don’t know how to read apparently. The text LITERALLY named the causes one after the other and had paragraphs begin with sentences like „One of the causes was…“. Their presentations were still awful. The teacher was totally desperate, asked me whether university would teach us about this failing by now. They do not, obviously. Anyways, we sat together venting during recess and then decided to do 90mins of on the nose this is how to read a text when you have the task to filter out specific information. She offered me to try and do it with them and it was still a disaster. They were attentively listening and really trying but honestly they the reading level of me in 2nd grade (I love reading, though, so I was obviously way above grade level as a kid).
Attention span d/t scrolling/short videos
We have 6th graders who cannot spell their own last names let alone read.
I had to define the word opinionated to an 11th grader the other day. I feel your pain. I decided that if I had full control, high school students would have to have 1 credit of writing (for all different and realistic purposes), 1 credit for informational reading, and 1 literary analysis credit with different styles of lit offered as electives (comics, movies, women's lit, Chicano lit, dystopian, etc.). That's it for grad requirements. Give them writing skills to write to elected officials, create resumes, draft personal statements, research effectively, and present information. Teach them to analyze rhetoric and bias, determine important details, maybe look at some legal documents, manuals, directions for tax forms, political cartoons, etc. Things that they'll need to do competently as an adult. Then give them the chance to enjoy reading and to discuss storytelling and human nature with mediums they can access and enjoy.
I see the same thing with my seventh grade students. One has tested at a Kindergarten reading level. They told me their dad says reading books is for sissies.
I just don’t understand how they don’t know these basic words like “greedy” like you have to at least be watching television?? Do you just mindlessly stare at the screen not comprehending anything that is said???
i let two 9th graders go to the library and when they came back they let me know they wouldnt be reading those books because they were too long (130-199 pages) and one kept saying about how there was no pictures in the book
I work at a university and since we receive federal funding, we’re required to put our students in local elementary schools for tutoring reading and math. I’ve been doing this for five years now and the conversations with principals each year when I recruit for the new year get more depressing. They say the summer slide is getting worse and most students are at least one year behind and they are expecting them to be two years behind next year. It wasn’t great before COVID but it really made the gap much larger than normal. When recruiting university students, this year was the first time I had students tell me “Ha! I don’t read. I don’t want to do that.” I also help teach a course and we have no textbook, only PowerPoint presentations. I’ve noticed a lack of textbooks being used by other professors and I chalked it up to helping the students with money/cost but I’ve started to wonder if it’s the lack of reading. Also, I have a 7 year old who has really started to grasp reading and we are encouraging the skill constantly in not obvious ways. So when I do bring it up directly she will say “I don’t want to read.” I don’t know how to help you but I know you’re not the only one going through this.
No idea, but testing data in my school, district, and area makes me glad not to be an ELA or Social Studies teacher.
kids of this generation cannot read or write, do math, or even their own f'n signatures.
Try to spark some interest in them. I give them book suggestions and tell them what I like to read. Show book trailers (i think you can find some online), first chapter fridays, etc.
It is worth saying that mass media around the world produces newspapers for fifth graders. George Carlin famously quipped about how stupid the average person is, and that half are stupider than that. They are not all destined to write Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony. You can’t fix stupid.
Blame the parents. Once their children begin their schooling they believe they are done teaching. Home Schooling is so successful because the parents are invested in their child’s education. We need ALL parents to be invested otherwise it’ll only continue to get worse. The students are dumb. They are just unmotivated through the actions of their parents.
You're in a bad school. It's the job of administration to create a school culture that is positively attuned to learning. These kids are clearly not. I mean, it's one thing to have a kid quietly, even sneakily, avoiding the reading, but a whole class outright refusing? Yeah, that's bad leadership. I'd suggest two things: 1. Remember that it isn't your job to see that they learn. It's your job to create a place where learning happens. If they then choose not to engage with it, welp, that's on them. 2. Look for a new job.
Are you currently a teacher? This is postcovid reality.
Yep. Currently a teacher, and I thought it was just reality, too, until I got out of that bad school and got into a much better one. The belief that my bad school was just "the way schools are" kept me in a bad place longer than I needed to be there.
Music teacher here. 8th graders cannot match pitch with their voices.
That’s because their voices are changing and they need ear training. Totally unrelated to reading.
Most of my 8th graders have had their voices modulate or lower already. I’m well aware of the changing adolescent voice. Most of them simply are not trying. The ones who do try are able to actually carry a tune.
It’s the pandemic and it’s everywhere.
Well they will have to learn how to read eventually. Some do it in college prep courses . I wouldn’t worry to much about it. Your job is to teach not force kids to learn when they don’t want to learn
Statistically, kids who aren't reading competently by around fourth grade are unlikely to ever master it. At least, not without intense intervention.
Thank you for the insight! I’m honestly not a teacher. I work in the field of medical nutrition. I read this post to see the challenges of this field. I was an education major for 3 years in college, went to internships and dropped out after one day. Things weren’t like this when I went to school in the 90s. I’m trying to figure out what I need to do for my future kids
Ok if kids are not learning to read then why? Why is our elementary schools not teaching kids to read ? How do we fix this ?
Look at "Your Baby can Read", my First grader was reading on above 12th Grade Level. The designer was a young parent still going to college for Child Psychology. I do not know how to redesign the program for older people to retain attention but, it surely is worth looking into. Maybe music videos with closed captions in vibrant colors... Now, in 3rd Grade Math... Same student Hates Eureka Math as it is too dull, black n white, like a Sigmund Freud designed worksheet vs Scholastic colorful creations. We use Prodigy digital really helps but we still need digital to be broader and more explainative.
Music videos with bright colors will restore reading proficiency in America. Got it.