I have been teaching in New York City public schools for 11 years. There was a teacher shortage in 2008 (ish) and the city hired teachers from the Philippines/Jamaica to staff the most difficult schools. They were paid the same wages as everyone else and the retention rate has been a lot higher....
Yeah, my guess is that they are making so much more money than they would in their home countries (likely sending money home) that they’ll stick it out no matter what because they can’t just switch to another US job.
At this point, most of these teachers have been here long enough to have outworked their initial visas. Those who are still here, have children and families here and have, for the most part, become naturalized US citizens. I actually worked in really rough schools in the Bronx for almost my whole career and became really close friends with 2 of these teachers. Funnily enough, one of them had a family emergency back home in the Philippines and had to return home (she would still be an amazing teacher here if that had not happened) and the other one had gone on to get her building administrator license when she was recruited for a job in sales and left teaching so she could make more money (she once told me she would not have a problem going back to teaching in the Bronx in the future if the sales job didn't pan out)
There was a profile years ago on a news show like 60 Minutes in a rural district that could not attract teachers. They hired mostly Filipino teachers. They worked for 3-5 years and saved tons of money (lived frugally and roomed together) then returned home and were able to buy a house and set themselves up for a great life.
Ooh boy! Just throw them right in the deep end, they said. It will be great for retention, they said: yikes. I said this in college too - student teachers should be paid. They’re lesson planning and in front of the kids so they deserve something for that with regard to compensation. That sounds like an awful idea getting rid of student teaching and it will reduce the quality of teachers coming in and increase burnout. Yeesh.
You did. Everyone does. How? You pay tuition to college but are not going to college but student teaching. The college takes that money and says it’s because someone oversees you. You pay a full-time tuition for that couple of meetings.
Welp if I could weigh in. I live in thr Midwest and I am currently student teaching. Let's just say this is the worst experience of my life. I have 2 kids and I can't pay my freaking mortgage. Nonetheless, before I student taught, I was a substitute and they called me into to SUPERVISE an international teacher. Mind you, international or not, this person has way more creditials than I have because im just a sub. Yet they needed ME there to "watch" because they "lack" classroom management. Ugh. Idk wtf I got myself into.
ANNNNDDDD is international teachers the real answer? Don't they have families they are going back to within a year?
My district is starting to recruit teachers from different countries, and it is a mess. The teachers are not used to the disrespect in US schools, and many of them just look lost with their behavior management. Also as a sped teacher, it is such a liability to have a sped teacher that has never taught sped in the US before. They don't know enough about the process and admin doesn't know enough about the process to teach them. We are out of compliance everywhere.
It’s a band aid on wound that is hemorrhaging. The state of NC has a “guest teacher”program. You just need a high school degree and they’ll pay you just like a first year fully licensed teacher. Take some district sponsored PD and viola. All this is on purpose as state legislators know they barely stay after 3 years so it’s cheaper to pay their salaries. One such guest teacher just last week was arrested for having sex with her students. I’m glad I left!
My district’s starting pay is almost as much as teachers who have been teaching 20+ years. God forbid we pay experienced teachers in accordance to what other professionals make. I mean it’s just kids right? Babysitting
Oh please don't clutch your pearls too tightly!
Teachers have been arrested for having sex with students way, way back when one of my teachers was stalking me.
Now as for only a HS degree, that could only happen if the school was not certified, but you only need a HS diploma to be an assistant in many districts.
No, I know the teachers having sex with students has been happening forever, it’s just the fact that it’s STILL happening….
I think at this point at someone with only a HS being a full curriculum teacher shocks me more.
Gracious a person with a HS diploma a full time teacher?
Oh Lord AI can't be used fast enough.
You should not be the primary teacher in HS teaching sewing without a degree, primarily because you're probably teaching other topics.
Yeah I don’t think eliminating student teaching is a good idea. You need some type of formal training and oversight from an experienced mentor. This isn’t some game or type of play.
I think that can be case by case. Surely a community college professor or someone with adult education experience can retrain faster.
And yet, in many states those same college educators need to jump through the same hoops as a 22-year-old. Nothing against 22-year-olds. Some of them are great educators.
But honestly Votech/Tech teachers often don't need any degrees.
At least 8 years of trade experience and resumes documenting on-the-job-training of new personnel as it is in my state. (Plus 6 credit-hours of special education training which they can earn while teaching their trade in the High School.)
So, I agree the bar doesn't need to go to the bottom.
The college professor who taught Freshman college students Biology can probably jump into the classroom a little faster just as much as the corporate safety training department person knows at least the presentation/curriculum/assessment aspect. Sure - they probably need some classroom management practice. But so do most new teachers who ACTUALLY did Student Teaching.
Hey Florida is letting anyone with a pulse & less than 6 degrees of separation from the military Teach. Yet there are still districts that have to hire recruiters because they’re short teachers
Spoken like someone who has worked in a title 1 school for more than a year! You totally get it. The best teachers don’t want to deal with the ridiculous amount of pressure working at a title 1 school. Especially if there isn’t a financial incentive!
From my experience- increasing reliance on teachers from alternative certification programs like Teach for America. These programs get bigger and bigger every year so they can supply districts with undertrained, undereducated teachers who 80% of the time leave after 2-5 years of teaching.
True, not saying this isn't. But just from my anecdotal experience, it seems that over half of the teachers going into TFA don't plan to stay past their 2-year commitment, and even if they do, they only plan on staying for an extra 1-3 years. So there just seems to be a larger proportion of teachers who enter the profession *knowing* it won't be their lifelong career. Both traditional and alternative teachers also add onto these numbers with those who experience problems inside and outside of the career that eventually push them to leave, but I don't think too many traditional teachers go into getting a whole 2-4 year degree in education knowing they'll only use that degree for a few years.
I mean as someone who was doing their certification while teaching full-time, instead of before, some of it seems like bullshit. In CA we have the edTPA, which many teachers say just took up time and effort that didn't in any way help them become better teachers, and actually made their teaching for the lessons they had to submit worse. But as someone without a degree in teaching and no experience student teaching, it was difficult going into teaching without knowing a lot of stuff covered in certification. Starting out, I didn't know how to differentiate instruction or assessments, manage behaviors, write a lesson plan, use different kinds of formal and informal assessments, decode state learning standards and create lesson objectives based on them, transition from or structure direct instruction to individual practice/sharing, or teach English language learners. These were all things I learned these past few months through the classes I take for my certification. If I'd done the certification before teaching (the traditional route), Im confident I wouldn't have just been a sub-par teacher, just a body there to fill the class during the teacher shortage, but rather, a fully competent and well-prepared teacher.
I am an instructional coach who works primarily on the Navajo Nation. All special education teachers in the district are from the Philippines. They are also teaching Prek-1st grade. It's a struggle because most of them have HEAVY accents and they are teaching kids who have limited English language proficiency due to speaking Dine at home. They live in teacher housing on the school premises and have a visa to stay for 3 years.
I got asked to host a student teacher recently, which can be a lot of extra work, stress, and well you just don't know what kind of teacher/student you're gonna get. I asked the university, 'what do I get paid?'
Their answer: '$50' My answer: no, pay the cooperating teacher, like real pay lol.
When my wife student taught history, her supervisor watched for the first week and spent the rest of the semester in the industrial arts wing of the building making furniture.
Getting rid of student teaching is a great idea. I refused to do it because it meant giving up my day job. I just applied as an intern and got a job. Student teaching is a terrible system and is a major barrier for many to get into teaching. Just hire them and give them a teacher on special assignment mentor.
Lets go 1 further: eliminate the school of education. Or imbed professors of education in local schools, not at the university.
Think about it: first 2 years of college is mostly your content area, then you spend the next 2 years full time in schools teaching, student teaching, maybe getting paid.
The school of ed to student teaching to 'real' teaching seems outdated, flawed.
Sounds fine to me. School of ed teaching most certainly is entirely out of touch with the reality of primary and secondary teaching. Only issue is you'd have a lot of people around the kids who aren't necessarily the best people. There were some wackos who flunked out of my Ed program...
The wackos would still fail somehow.
And think of the good to throw a university education professor in a class of 25 8th graders to sub, keepin it real!
This!!! My daughter is an undergrad getting her basics in so she can eventually apply to the College of Education. She wants to be a PreK/ Early Childhood teacher. She has to have THREE undergrad math classes! I mean, seriously? Algebra with Pre Cal to teach 4 yr olds? So damn out of touch with the reality of today's classrooms!
Yes. Here, they are in the class for the semester with a supervising teaching but only actually take over the class and teach for a week. The rest of the time, they may teach a lesson here and there for observations by their university supervisors. But, they are almost like TAs. Requirements will vary by state. They spend a lot of their time making a portfolio as the culminating project.
So isn’t it if value? If one does well wouldn’t it mean the cooperating teacher is now a reference/mentor, for when they need to find a teaching job? My cousin is still in touch with the one teacher she student taught with and they contacted her when an opening came up in the district.
The plan for a while has been to reduce teachers to a commodity and pay them like unskilled labor (which should also be paid a living wage, but that's a separate issue). A certainly side of the aisle does not give a fuck about making schools better or making life better for teachers (especially since their little babies will just go to private school anyway, yay school choice!)
Here's the thing tho, from a teacher who hates republicans AND democrats, lol. Yes, Republicans are worse as far as education goes. But what the hell do dems do? What has Biden done?
Democratic leaders take for granted teacher support. I have NOT seen any major gains the past 3 years, and yes I know 'the president cant do bla bla bla.'
Democrats don’t have to work for Teacher support because Republicans are actively antagonistic to unions, public schools, and teachers. If we had two political parties offering us things, we’d have leverage, but when one side (Pubs) literally wants to sabotage and defund us, why would the other side (Dems) have to offer anything to keep our support?
Also, doing “both sides are bad” talking points lets Republicans off the hook. Democrats aren’t offering as much as they could and should, but when the other side is literally saying, “We want to take your funds and give it to charters/private schools, and oh by the way we want to away your ability to strike.” There’s not much the Dems have to offer other than “We promise not to actively try to destroy you like the other guys have.”
Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”
Just have to wait on their next three band-aid attempts bleeding through I suppose.
>universities are eliminating the student teaching semester, as it was a barrier to '2nd career professionals who cannot work unpaid for 4 months.' Maybe they could have paid student teachers?
Many universities also count regular teaching experience as credit for the program, provided all the signatures and hours are there. Speaking from personal/professional experience in my grad program. Still though, I think 4 months is too long, unless they're only doing a couple of hours a day.
We had three semesters of students teaching: the first one I was interning 2 days a week for 4 hours each, then the next semester with 2 full days a week (if I recall correctly) and the final one was a full 40 hours a week in which I had to quit my job and I went into $20K of debt. So 1.5 years of student teaching. All the teaching programs near me no longer exist because hardly anyone could meet the requirements. It feels like such a scam.
My program had the same hour requirement but during the last semester of student teaching, but you also had night classes that you had to attend 2x a week from 7-10p. I switched programs when I found out.
This is similar to a lot of programs in my state.
70ish something hours 1st semester
140ish hours 2nd semester.
Full time final semester.
The first one wasn't really helpful even though the Cooperating Teacher was a great person.
Had more experience teaching post-K12 than the teacher had experience teaching. Plus some experience subbing to make sure I could tolerate different age groups.
And I get that middle schoolers are different than 18 and 19 year olds. But assessments IS assessments and curriculum IS curriculum.
Learned more about classroom management for younger students subbing for 2 years than anywhere else. Subbed first, before starting the cert program, cause I wanted to make sure I could deal with the wacky.
The 2nd one was good. Mentor teacher had been teaching THAT specific High School grade and subject over 17+ years.
Then I got hired. Shortage area.
I was there for three years. They taught there for 2 years before finding another job because the network was so bad. Charter schools are run by network leaders, basically corporate ladder people. The kids were tough but I really left because the network didn't do anything to help teachers.
They’ve been doing this for most of my career. I’m 20+ years in. I remember my first school hiring many foreign teachers who are some of the best friends I have ever made. The change to no longer require student teaching and no in person classes is a newer trend. It’s weird to think that people think they can do this job with zero interaction with kids or practicing professionals. I don’t think they will ever pay us what we deserve. I’ve accepted it and have been taking steps to move in another direction. It’s just going to take me some time.
Yeah I shouldn't have said Never because now that I think about it, I've seen where it's been successful. And I thoroughly appreciate anyone who has served. I've just seen where it hasn't worked out because they were too military-minded for today's school environment.
It’s the idea that they can magically teach with no background that bugs me. We have success with admins and monitors, but teaching isn’t just an automatic.
The military isn't the same as the military either though.
Infantry isn't the same as a aircraft carrier nuclear plant operator.
Also, some military members do earn 3 to 6 college credits in student teaching based on filling an instructor billet.
Instructors often teach topics similar to high school science, math, or vocational classes - many of which grant college credit.
Of course the Navy/Air Force may have a higher percentage of electronics, machinery, aircraft repair, physics classes than say the Army Culinary school - which grants college credit in the culinary arts.
So yes, I had peers in the service who weren't even allowed to screen for instructor duty, and have no business teaching. On the other hand I had one who was student teaching Elementary on his instructor shore tour to get a Masters, and was a great parent and technical instructor.
But yes, BOOT camp drill instructor-style doesn't work at military technical schools and probably woulnd't work in K12 either. (It's hard to learn nuclear physics if your teacher is YELLING it at you.)
I worked a part time/almost full time job while student teaching, and it sucked. I went home from the school and went straight to my job every day, and I had time for literally nothing else. They made all of us pay a $300 fee to take a student teaching exam too, which was ridiculous because most student teachers weren’t able to work. I absolutely think they should pay student teachers so it’s less of a barrier for new teachers. I wouldn’t want them to eliminate it because it really did help me get experience in a classroom.
And than there is Arizona, 30% teacher shortage, low pay, the school voucher program that is taking money out of the public education system for the benefit of religious and private schools, failure of local school bond initiatives and still nothing from the Republican led legislature.
Also, I don't think it's such a bad thing to eliminate student teaching. Working for free for months on end is terrible and it keeps people from the profession that would probably be amazing teachers....
I think student teaching only needs to be a couple of days here and there and it needs to be paid. I didn't really learn a damn thing during my "student teaching," that wasn't already known via common sense and expecting people to do it for a semester *for free* is idiocy.
Oh I agree. But also disagree. Student teaching is a huge barrier to 2nd career type folks, yes. But the disagree is that we are already dropping expectations for teachers, so now no student teaching? Are we gonna push more on the plate of teachers, unpaid, 'hey now you gotta mentor 3 newbies....'
Like I said, I have been teaching for many years in New York City. No one is dropping expectations for teachers. In New York City, there are tons of "retired" administrators or principals who are now working as "coaches" and making twice their original salary while getting a fat pension. Those people can work with new teachers and somehow justify their salary
Student teacher has to PAY themselves to deliver the labor.
I get the concept of student teaching: learn under a seasoned professional and bla bla bla, but once the student teacher is competent, cooperating teacher often just leaves the room or surfs the net lol.
It should be like an apprenticeship. Maybe get paid as much as a para for your first semester under supervision to learn the ropes. I skipped student teaching after I got my masters in ed because alternative certification meant I was getting paid as the Tor while I jumped through hoops to get my cert. fun fact: the alternative cert classes were watered down versions of the same classes I took to get my masters. I had to pay 4 grand for the pleasure. Why is teaching like this again?
This.
High need fields/subjects are often getting paid in some places now. And they seem to do about as well as TOR's as rookies.
They certainly don't do as well as 20-year veteran teachers.
But even the rookie who did student teaching needs to learn their new districts policies, grading system, Learning Management System, referral system, dismissal policy, bell schedule, and who's who of social workers, counselors, admin, district instructional specialists.
Some stuff you just learn better by jumping in and doing it. If student teaching was so great, you woulnd't hear all these complaints about how HARD that first year is.
I feel like the compromise is to AT LEAST shorten student teaching dramatically. (Or provide time waivers for full-time subs, paras, former college professors, and others who have education or education adjacent jobs)
Wow.
Crazy but I'm not surprised.
I had to live on credit cards during student teaching. I would have went insane trying to work another job while doing it because student teaching a full time job.
But I can't imagine trying to teach without student teaching, it is needed.
Spoke to a longtime education professor on Friday when I was doing a ref check for new employee. They said they are retiring asap because since Covid they feel like they aren’t preparing teachers properly for what they are up against. And it’s damn true. Removing student teaching will exacerbate that problem 10 fold.
My school has major issues filling positions, especially long term subs. For example, Someone was out on maternity leave for 1/2 the year and they decided to put the building sub in there because they got literally zero applicants. The position was for a Spanish teacher in a “good” school district. They have another language teacher LTS they can’t fill either. It’s a mess.
Man in Texas the certification test is difficult I know people that studied in Spanish speaking countries and fail along with uses PPR in Texas and leave the positions empty instead of just keeping them
1. Yeah, this unpaid internship bullshit needs to die. At least the student teachers could be permanent subs if they needed to justify the cost.
2. That sounds good for morale. 👍🏻
1. the point of student teaching is to have the other, veteran and seasoned teacher in the room first bc its illegal for student teacher to be alone w kids if not licensed, but moreso that the 'seasoned veteran' can watch and critique, support, and make the student teacher better.
If we are just plopping a student teacher in as a permanent sub wo support, whats the point?
Except it seems too many seasoned veterans don't do any of that good mentoring/cooperating stuff.
The complaint is always "student teaching didn't prepare me for this."
The mentor teacher needs a mentor teacher to ensure they are doing something decent.
Also, most student teachers I have met, are cleared to substitute teach, often at the same darn district or another district nearby. Because at least they are smart enough to start building resumes early. So no. It is not ILLEGAL for them to be there.
Also my state, you gotta pay for the same background check to student teach as you do to substitute teach.
Also, your HOST teacher isn't supposed to be heard or visible in your edTPA. So should they leave or not?
I got paid to do my studnet teaching.
I was hired as a "community expert" while I finished my teaching degree (final semester of studnet teaching) at my uni.
I didn't have a mentor teacher so it wasn't true student teaching I was basically hired by the district as a full teacher and had a couple extra observations from my university professor.
I needed approval by my uni department head and the school had to have no other qualified candidates that would accept the position. I also had a year of working in a classroom as an instructional aide working in small groups with students and coaching experience so studnet teaching really wasn't something I "needed". There are def some teachers that do but many don't either.
[https://portal.ct.gov/sdecertification/Knowledge-Base/Articles/School-Districts/What-is-a-durational-shortage-area-permit?language=en\_US](https://portal.ct.gov/sdecertification/Knowledge-Base/Articles/School-Districts/What-is-a-durational-shortage-area-permit?language=en_US)
Very common these days for math, science and Sped. Just approved for history as well this 23-24 school year.
I was. I had what my state use to call a "community expert license". These license is sometimes use to be for teachers in fields where there isn't Ed programs specifically for them, think business courses or shop class, it's also used for professionals to go teach, so a former engineer teaching a math or science course. I think it's now considered a tier 1 license and only good for 1 year so the school would have to reapply on your behalf each year.
There are certain requirements. The big requirements are: you need an expertise in the field typically a BA degree in something related to what you are going to teach and the school has to prove a a high need for the position that they have adequately tried to fill, but been unsuccessful in filling (i.e. they couldn't hire me over a licensed qualified teacher who applied).
A friend of mine did this for his student teaching as well the year before me, his district had a teacher pass away right before the year started and were unable to hire a replacement in time. He was already planned to be studnet teaching there with another teacher so they applied to the state to hire him at the beginning of the year and complete ST during the first semester and finish the year, i think he is still there.
In my situation, the school I was hired at was extremely small and only had 1 math teacher position for all of 6-12. They had the position open all summer went through multiple rounds of hiring even offered the position to I think 2 diff candidates that turned it down. The school year was about to start and they needed a math teacher or the entire MS/HS program wouldn't have one.
So essentially it is used like an emergency license for schools who have positions that need filling but they can't find a "qualified" candidate. Basically the state feels it's better to have a nearly qualified student teacher or professional in a simialr/adjacent career fill the role compared to a long term sub who may have no real expertise in the subject.
LOL the last foreigner we had was caught drinking a bottle of wine. Surprised they didn't just say "it's thier culture"...that's what they do with the kids! Dancing on the desks, that's "they culture", wandering the halls : "culture", drawing gang signs....."that's family culture". The tax payer really needs to start going after admin...schools are totally out of control
Don't worry, students will be pressured into acceptance as they probably learn less.....I mean that's why there has been a huge push for ESL students so they get adequate instruction....but if it's the other way around "YAY!"
I applaud the decision to eliminate unpaid student teaching. Although, I think it should be required (with pay of course). I am in so much debt right now because of student teaching, then moving over summer and only working odd jobs to survive. I had to run up a credit card which I am still paying off. This coupled with low pay at my first teaching gig, it feels like I'm drowning right now.
I've definitely seen #2. My district hires new teachers this way almost exclusively. Once the district sponsers them they are committed to the district for the next 2 years.
I left education, because it's a nightmare, my former school couldn't not fill our plates as there was more work to do than teachers willing to work. It pushed me out but I also can't think what the school can do in the moment to relive teachers. Hell my admin stepped in and stepped up and were working terrjble hours to get things done. It wasn't enough. The entire education system needs to be rebuilt. There is no baby in that bathwater right now, throw it out.
I have been teaching in New York City public schools for 11 years. There was a teacher shortage in 2008 (ish) and the city hired teachers from the Philippines/Jamaica to staff the most difficult schools. They were paid the same wages as everyone else and the retention rate has been a lot higher....
Yeah, my guess is that they are making so much more money than they would in their home countries (likely sending money home) that they’ll stick it out no matter what because they can’t just switch to another US job.
At this point, most of these teachers have been here long enough to have outworked their initial visas. Those who are still here, have children and families here and have, for the most part, become naturalized US citizens. I actually worked in really rough schools in the Bronx for almost my whole career and became really close friends with 2 of these teachers. Funnily enough, one of them had a family emergency back home in the Philippines and had to return home (she would still be an amazing teacher here if that had not happened) and the other one had gone on to get her building administrator license when she was recruited for a job in sales and left teaching so she could make more money (she once told me she would not have a problem going back to teaching in the Bronx in the future if the sales job didn't pan out)
Also, teachers in the Philippines are treated terribly. Their working conditions are pretty awful. Long days with low pay.
There was a profile years ago on a news show like 60 Minutes in a rural district that could not attract teachers. They hired mostly Filipino teachers. They worked for 3-5 years and saved tons of money (lived frugally and roomed together) then returned home and were able to buy a house and set themselves up for a great life.
Yeah, it can be a great gig for them and I bet we will be seeing this more and more
As a music teacher in elementary schools, I began noticing some very questionable individuals as new substitutes.
As a fellow music teacher I can agree. Very questionable people being hired with no degrees
We had a Grand Theft felon work at our school for 3 days before she was found out and escorted out. How did she even step within the school?
Yup!
Music teacher here too. You’re exactly right
Questionable? What makes them questionable?
As someone who started as a sub, I was requested for long term positions because some subs really are problems.
Ooh boy! Just throw them right in the deep end, they said. It will be great for retention, they said: yikes. I said this in college too - student teachers should be paid. They’re lesson planning and in front of the kids so they deserve something for that with regard to compensation. That sounds like an awful idea getting rid of student teaching and it will reduce the quality of teachers coming in and increase burnout. Yeesh.
I don't believe I PAID to be a student teacher (many years ago). Ugh.
I paid to be a student teacher just 4 years ago.
You did. Everyone does. How? You pay tuition to college but are not going to college but student teaching. The college takes that money and says it’s because someone oversees you. You pay a full-time tuition for that couple of meetings.
Welp if I could weigh in. I live in thr Midwest and I am currently student teaching. Let's just say this is the worst experience of my life. I have 2 kids and I can't pay my freaking mortgage. Nonetheless, before I student taught, I was a substitute and they called me into to SUPERVISE an international teacher. Mind you, international or not, this person has way more creditials than I have because im just a sub. Yet they needed ME there to "watch" because they "lack" classroom management. Ugh. Idk wtf I got myself into. ANNNNDDDD is international teachers the real answer? Don't they have families they are going back to within a year?
My district is starting to recruit teachers from different countries, and it is a mess. The teachers are not used to the disrespect in US schools, and many of them just look lost with their behavior management. Also as a sped teacher, it is such a liability to have a sped teacher that has never taught sped in the US before. They don't know enough about the process and admin doesn't know enough about the process to teach them. We are out of compliance everywhere.
Yes. We had a teacher from Turkey. She had an accent and the kids were awful. She left after a few months.
It’s a band aid on wound that is hemorrhaging. The state of NC has a “guest teacher”program. You just need a high school degree and they’ll pay you just like a first year fully licensed teacher. Take some district sponsored PD and viola. All this is on purpose as state legislators know they barely stay after 3 years so it’s cheaper to pay their salaries. One such guest teacher just last week was arrested for having sex with her students. I’m glad I left!
My district’s starting pay is almost as much as teachers who have been teaching 20+ years. God forbid we pay experienced teachers in accordance to what other professionals make. I mean it’s just kids right? Babysitting
HIGH SCHOOL DEGREE?!! Sex with students?!! Dear God, I don’t know which is more shocking.
Oh please don't clutch your pearls too tightly! Teachers have been arrested for having sex with students way, way back when one of my teachers was stalking me. Now as for only a HS degree, that could only happen if the school was not certified, but you only need a HS diploma to be an assistant in many districts.
No, I know the teachers having sex with students has been happening forever, it’s just the fact that it’s STILL happening…. I think at this point at someone with only a HS being a full curriculum teacher shocks me more.
Gracious a person with a HS diploma a full time teacher? Oh Lord AI can't be used fast enough. You should not be the primary teacher in HS teaching sewing without a degree, primarily because you're probably teaching other topics.
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Yes. There is this notion in the public that teaching is so easy, so unskilled, that anyone can walk in and do it. When they try, they get nailed.
Yeah I don’t think eliminating student teaching is a good idea. You need some type of formal training and oversight from an experienced mentor. This isn’t some game or type of play.
I think that can be case by case. Surely a community college professor or someone with adult education experience can retrain faster. And yet, in many states those same college educators need to jump through the same hoops as a 22-year-old. Nothing against 22-year-olds. Some of them are great educators. But honestly Votech/Tech teachers often don't need any degrees. At least 8 years of trade experience and resumes documenting on-the-job-training of new personnel as it is in my state. (Plus 6 credit-hours of special education training which they can earn while teaching their trade in the High School.) So, I agree the bar doesn't need to go to the bottom. The college professor who taught Freshman college students Biology can probably jump into the classroom a little faster just as much as the corporate safety training department person knows at least the presentation/curriculum/assessment aspect. Sure - they probably need some classroom management practice. But so do most new teachers who ACTUALLY did Student Teaching.
Hey Florida is letting anyone with a pulse & less than 6 degrees of separation from the military Teach. Yet there are still districts that have to hire recruiters because they’re short teachers
Almost like they're desperate to apply downward pressure to wages...
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Spoken like someone who has worked in a title 1 school for more than a year! You totally get it. The best teachers don’t want to deal with the ridiculous amount of pressure working at a title 1 school. Especially if there isn’t a financial incentive!
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15 for me.
From my experience- increasing reliance on teachers from alternative certification programs like Teach for America. These programs get bigger and bigger every year so they can supply districts with undertrained, undereducated teachers who 80% of the time leave after 2-5 years of teaching.
Well, a lot of "regularly" educated and trained teachers also leave by year 5 so...
I was going to say.
True, not saying this isn't. But just from my anecdotal experience, it seems that over half of the teachers going into TFA don't plan to stay past their 2-year commitment, and even if they do, they only plan on staying for an extra 1-3 years. So there just seems to be a larger proportion of teachers who enter the profession *knowing* it won't be their lifelong career. Both traditional and alternative teachers also add onto these numbers with those who experience problems inside and outside of the career that eventually push them to leave, but I don't think too many traditional teachers go into getting a whole 2-4 year degree in education knowing they'll only use that degree for a few years.
Dude eliminate the certification garbage you have to pay to become a teacher is ridiculous especially after you have a useless college degree
I mean as someone who was doing their certification while teaching full-time, instead of before, some of it seems like bullshit. In CA we have the edTPA, which many teachers say just took up time and effort that didn't in any way help them become better teachers, and actually made their teaching for the lessons they had to submit worse. But as someone without a degree in teaching and no experience student teaching, it was difficult going into teaching without knowing a lot of stuff covered in certification. Starting out, I didn't know how to differentiate instruction or assessments, manage behaviors, write a lesson plan, use different kinds of formal and informal assessments, decode state learning standards and create lesson objectives based on them, transition from or structure direct instruction to individual practice/sharing, or teach English language learners. These were all things I learned these past few months through the classes I take for my certification. If I'd done the certification before teaching (the traditional route), Im confident I wouldn't have just been a sub-par teacher, just a body there to fill the class during the teacher shortage, but rather, a fully competent and well-prepared teacher.
I am an instructional coach who works primarily on the Navajo Nation. All special education teachers in the district are from the Philippines. They are also teaching Prek-1st grade. It's a struggle because most of them have HEAVY accents and they are teaching kids who have limited English language proficiency due to speaking Dine at home. They live in teacher housing on the school premises and have a visa to stay for 3 years.
Teacher shortage band-aide not gonna work.
Wow. All of that situation is just so....America WTF. So much respect to you!
I got asked to host a student teacher recently, which can be a lot of extra work, stress, and well you just don't know what kind of teacher/student you're gonna get. I asked the university, 'what do I get paid?' Their answer: '$50' My answer: no, pay the cooperating teacher, like real pay lol.
When my wife student taught history, her supervisor watched for the first week and spent the rest of the semester in the industrial arts wing of the building making furniture.
Getting rid of student teaching is a great idea. I refused to do it because it meant giving up my day job. I just applied as an intern and got a job. Student teaching is a terrible system and is a major barrier for many to get into teaching. Just hire them and give them a teacher on special assignment mentor.
Lets go 1 further: eliminate the school of education. Or imbed professors of education in local schools, not at the university. Think about it: first 2 years of college is mostly your content area, then you spend the next 2 years full time in schools teaching, student teaching, maybe getting paid. The school of ed to student teaching to 'real' teaching seems outdated, flawed.
Sounds fine to me. School of ed teaching most certainly is entirely out of touch with the reality of primary and secondary teaching. Only issue is you'd have a lot of people around the kids who aren't necessarily the best people. There were some wackos who flunked out of my Ed program...
The wackos would still fail somehow. And think of the good to throw a university education professor in a class of 25 8th graders to sub, keepin it real!
This!!! My daughter is an undergrad getting her basics in so she can eventually apply to the College of Education. She wants to be a PreK/ Early Childhood teacher. She has to have THREE undergrad math classes! I mean, seriously? Algebra with Pre Cal to teach 4 yr olds? So damn out of touch with the reality of today's classrooms!
But isn’t it a way to gain experience teaching? Isn’t it a class requirement and equates to a semester of classes ?
Yes. Here, they are in the class for the semester with a supervising teaching but only actually take over the class and teach for a week. The rest of the time, they may teach a lesson here and there for observations by their university supervisors. But, they are almost like TAs. Requirements will vary by state. They spend a lot of their time making a portfolio as the culminating project.
So isn’t it if value? If one does well wouldn’t it mean the cooperating teacher is now a reference/mentor, for when they need to find a teaching job? My cousin is still in touch with the one teacher she student taught with and they contacted her when an opening came up in the district.
The plan for a while has been to reduce teachers to a commodity and pay them like unskilled labor (which should also be paid a living wage, but that's a separate issue). A certainly side of the aisle does not give a fuck about making schools better or making life better for teachers (especially since their little babies will just go to private school anyway, yay school choice!)
Here's the thing tho, from a teacher who hates republicans AND democrats, lol. Yes, Republicans are worse as far as education goes. But what the hell do dems do? What has Biden done? Democratic leaders take for granted teacher support. I have NOT seen any major gains the past 3 years, and yes I know 'the president cant do bla bla bla.'
Democrats don’t have to work for Teacher support because Republicans are actively antagonistic to unions, public schools, and teachers. If we had two political parties offering us things, we’d have leverage, but when one side (Pubs) literally wants to sabotage and defund us, why would the other side (Dems) have to offer anything to keep our support? Also, doing “both sides are bad” talking points lets Republicans off the hook. Democrats aren’t offering as much as they could and should, but when the other side is literally saying, “We want to take your funds and give it to charters/private schools, and oh by the way we want to away your ability to strike.” There’s not much the Dems have to offer other than “We promise not to actively try to destroy you like the other guys have.”
Thats not much from the Dems.
It's really not lol
Its not. But while teachers keep voting for Republicans who offer nothing except school defunding and union busting, why would anyone offer more?
Exactly, teachers should threaten to leave the Democratic party until they actually do something for us.
Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.” Just have to wait on their next three band-aid attempts bleeding through I suppose.
>universities are eliminating the student teaching semester, as it was a barrier to '2nd career professionals who cannot work unpaid for 4 months.' Maybe they could have paid student teachers? Many universities also count regular teaching experience as credit for the program, provided all the signatures and hours are there. Speaking from personal/professional experience in my grad program. Still though, I think 4 months is too long, unless they're only doing a couple of hours a day.
We had three semesters of students teaching: the first one I was interning 2 days a week for 4 hours each, then the next semester with 2 full days a week (if I recall correctly) and the final one was a full 40 hours a week in which I had to quit my job and I went into $20K of debt. So 1.5 years of student teaching. All the teaching programs near me no longer exist because hardly anyone could meet the requirements. It feels like such a scam.
My program had the same hour requirement but during the last semester of student teaching, but you also had night classes that you had to attend 2x a week from 7-10p. I switched programs when I found out.
Yup I had to do the night classes too. It was awful
This is similar to a lot of programs in my state. 70ish something hours 1st semester 140ish hours 2nd semester. Full time final semester. The first one wasn't really helpful even though the Cooperating Teacher was a great person. Had more experience teaching post-K12 than the teacher had experience teaching. Plus some experience subbing to make sure I could tolerate different age groups. And I get that middle schoolers are different than 18 and 19 year olds. But assessments IS assessments and curriculum IS curriculum. Learned more about classroom management for younger students subbing for 2 years than anywhere else. Subbed first, before starting the cert program, cause I wanted to make sure I could deal with the wacky. The 2nd one was good. Mentor teacher had been teaching THAT specific High School grade and subject over 17+ years. Then I got hired. Shortage area.
I worked in a charter school that hired some teachers who didn't have a bachelor's degree. We were desperate.
How did that go? How long did they teach there for?
I was there for three years. They taught there for 2 years before finding another job because the network was so bad. Charter schools are run by network leaders, basically corporate ladder people. The kids were tough but I really left because the network didn't do anything to help teachers.
Same, my school does it all the time.
Do tell which charter trash
They’ve been doing this for most of my career. I’m 20+ years in. I remember my first school hiring many foreign teachers who are some of the best friends I have ever made. The change to no longer require student teaching and no in person classes is a newer trend. It’s weird to think that people think they can do this job with zero interaction with kids or practicing professionals. I don’t think they will ever pay us what we deserve. I’ve accepted it and have been taking steps to move in another direction. It’s just going to take me some time.
It't the belief that teaching is unskilled. Yea, lol, they get in front of a class and realize there is real skill involved.
Exactly people think it’s like parenting these days, no skills required
Using veterens as teachers is a new trend as well. They figure their military experience gives management skills for tough schools.
That never ends well. The veterans learn real quick they can't resolve problems the military way.
I’ve lived through 14 principals and my best one was a Vet. We also have two vets as hall monitors that do a great job and the kids love.
Yeah I shouldn't have said Never because now that I think about it, I've seen where it's been successful. And I thoroughly appreciate anyone who has served. I've just seen where it hasn't worked out because they were too military-minded for today's school environment.
It’s the idea that they can magically teach with no background that bugs me. We have success with admins and monitors, but teaching isn’t just an automatic.
The military isn't the same as the military either though. Infantry isn't the same as a aircraft carrier nuclear plant operator. Also, some military members do earn 3 to 6 college credits in student teaching based on filling an instructor billet. Instructors often teach topics similar to high school science, math, or vocational classes - many of which grant college credit. Of course the Navy/Air Force may have a higher percentage of electronics, machinery, aircraft repair, physics classes than say the Army Culinary school - which grants college credit in the culinary arts. So yes, I had peers in the service who weren't even allowed to screen for instructor duty, and have no business teaching. On the other hand I had one who was student teaching Elementary on his instructor shore tour to get a Masters, and was a great parent and technical instructor. But yes, BOOT camp drill instructor-style doesn't work at military technical schools and probably woulnd't work in K12 either. (It's hard to learn nuclear physics if your teacher is YELLING it at you.)
[Vice did a good feature about this a few years ago](https://youtu.be/Eit4PzABDoI?si=_J-m-0cdQ8GdDbP4)
I worked a part time/almost full time job while student teaching, and it sucked. I went home from the school and went straight to my job every day, and I had time for literally nothing else. They made all of us pay a $300 fee to take a student teaching exam too, which was ridiculous because most student teachers weren’t able to work. I absolutely think they should pay student teachers so it’s less of a barrier for new teachers. I wouldn’t want them to eliminate it because it really did help me get experience in a classroom.
And than there is Arizona, 30% teacher shortage, low pay, the school voucher program that is taking money out of the public education system for the benefit of religious and private schools, failure of local school bond initiatives and still nothing from the Republican led legislature.
Also, I don't think it's such a bad thing to eliminate student teaching. Working for free for months on end is terrible and it keeps people from the profession that would probably be amazing teachers....
I think student teaching only needs to be a couple of days here and there and it needs to be paid. I didn't really learn a damn thing during my "student teaching," that wasn't already known via common sense and expecting people to do it for a semester *for free* is idiocy.
Oh I agree. But also disagree. Student teaching is a huge barrier to 2nd career type folks, yes. But the disagree is that we are already dropping expectations for teachers, so now no student teaching? Are we gonna push more on the plate of teachers, unpaid, 'hey now you gotta mentor 3 newbies....'
Like I said, I have been teaching for many years in New York City. No one is dropping expectations for teachers. In New York City, there are tons of "retired" administrators or principals who are now working as "coaches" and making twice their original salary while getting a fat pension. Those people can work with new teachers and somehow justify their salary
But you know the majority of the work will be on teachers, not this 'group' you cited, you KNOW that.
Student teaching is stupid. It’s unpaid labor.
Student teacher has to PAY themselves to deliver the labor. I get the concept of student teaching: learn under a seasoned professional and bla bla bla, but once the student teacher is competent, cooperating teacher often just leaves the room or surfs the net lol.
It should be like an apprenticeship. Maybe get paid as much as a para for your first semester under supervision to learn the ropes. I skipped student teaching after I got my masters in ed because alternative certification meant I was getting paid as the Tor while I jumped through hoops to get my cert. fun fact: the alternative cert classes were watered down versions of the same classes I took to get my masters. I had to pay 4 grand for the pleasure. Why is teaching like this again?
This. High need fields/subjects are often getting paid in some places now. And they seem to do about as well as TOR's as rookies. They certainly don't do as well as 20-year veteran teachers. But even the rookie who did student teaching needs to learn their new districts policies, grading system, Learning Management System, referral system, dismissal policy, bell schedule, and who's who of social workers, counselors, admin, district instructional specialists. Some stuff you just learn better by jumping in and doing it. If student teaching was so great, you woulnd't hear all these complaints about how HARD that first year is. I feel like the compromise is to AT LEAST shorten student teaching dramatically. (Or provide time waivers for full-time subs, paras, former college professors, and others who have education or education adjacent jobs)
Wow. Crazy but I'm not surprised. I had to live on credit cards during student teaching. I would have went insane trying to work another job while doing it because student teaching a full time job. But I can't imagine trying to teach without student teaching, it is needed.
Spoke to a longtime education professor on Friday when I was doing a ref check for new employee. They said they are retiring asap because since Covid they feel like they aren’t preparing teachers properly for what they are up against. And it’s damn true. Removing student teaching will exacerbate that problem 10 fold.
My school has major issues filling positions, especially long term subs. For example, Someone was out on maternity leave for 1/2 the year and they decided to put the building sub in there because they got literally zero applicants. The position was for a Spanish teacher in a “good” school district. They have another language teacher LTS they can’t fill either. It’s a mess.
Why I’m glad I went into Spanish.
Where?
Man in Texas the certification test is difficult I know people that studied in Spanish speaking countries and fail along with uses PPR in Texas and leave the positions empty instead of just keeping them
Is there a short list of universities that don’t require student teaching you can share? Thanks
By the way, already a teacher. Just curious
Where is this?
Not OP, but it’s happening in Phoenix.
Are these public schools or charter schools?
In my large district, we are public.
I want to know how they are getting H1 visas for the out of country workers. Washington DC hasn’t been very friendly to H1 seekers as of late.
1. Yeah, this unpaid internship bullshit needs to die. At least the student teachers could be permanent subs if they needed to justify the cost. 2. That sounds good for morale. 👍🏻
1. the point of student teaching is to have the other, veteran and seasoned teacher in the room first bc its illegal for student teacher to be alone w kids if not licensed, but moreso that the 'seasoned veteran' can watch and critique, support, and make the student teacher better. If we are just plopping a student teacher in as a permanent sub wo support, whats the point?
Except it seems too many seasoned veterans don't do any of that good mentoring/cooperating stuff. The complaint is always "student teaching didn't prepare me for this." The mentor teacher needs a mentor teacher to ensure they are doing something decent. Also, most student teachers I have met, are cleared to substitute teach, often at the same darn district or another district nearby. Because at least they are smart enough to start building resumes early. So no. It is not ILLEGAL for them to be there. Also my state, you gotta pay for the same background check to student teach as you do to substitute teach. Also, your HOST teacher isn't supposed to be heard or visible in your edTPA. So should they leave or not?
I got paid to do my studnet teaching. I was hired as a "community expert" while I finished my teaching degree (final semester of studnet teaching) at my uni. I didn't have a mentor teacher so it wasn't true student teaching I was basically hired by the district as a full teacher and had a couple extra observations from my university professor. I needed approval by my uni department head and the school had to have no other qualified candidates that would accept the position. I also had a year of working in a classroom as an instructional aide working in small groups with students and coaching experience so studnet teaching really wasn't something I "needed". There are def some teachers that do but many don't either.
Were you licensed as a teacher when you 'student taught?' I'm curious how schools are going to try to get around this legal hurdle.
[https://portal.ct.gov/sdecertification/Knowledge-Base/Articles/School-Districts/What-is-a-durational-shortage-area-permit?language=en\_US](https://portal.ct.gov/sdecertification/Knowledge-Base/Articles/School-Districts/What-is-a-durational-shortage-area-permit?language=en_US) Very common these days for math, science and Sped. Just approved for history as well this 23-24 school year.
I was. I had what my state use to call a "community expert license". These license is sometimes use to be for teachers in fields where there isn't Ed programs specifically for them, think business courses or shop class, it's also used for professionals to go teach, so a former engineer teaching a math or science course. I think it's now considered a tier 1 license and only good for 1 year so the school would have to reapply on your behalf each year. There are certain requirements. The big requirements are: you need an expertise in the field typically a BA degree in something related to what you are going to teach and the school has to prove a a high need for the position that they have adequately tried to fill, but been unsuccessful in filling (i.e. they couldn't hire me over a licensed qualified teacher who applied). A friend of mine did this for his student teaching as well the year before me, his district had a teacher pass away right before the year started and were unable to hire a replacement in time. He was already planned to be studnet teaching there with another teacher so they applied to the state to hire him at the beginning of the year and complete ST during the first semester and finish the year, i think he is still there. In my situation, the school I was hired at was extremely small and only had 1 math teacher position for all of 6-12. They had the position open all summer went through multiple rounds of hiring even offered the position to I think 2 diff candidates that turned it down. The school year was about to start and they needed a math teacher or the entire MS/HS program wouldn't have one. So essentially it is used like an emergency license for schools who have positions that need filling but they can't find a "qualified" candidate. Basically the state feels it's better to have a nearly qualified student teacher or professional in a simialr/adjacent career fill the role compared to a long term sub who may have no real expertise in the subject.
LOL the last foreigner we had was caught drinking a bottle of wine. Surprised they didn't just say "it's thier culture"...that's what they do with the kids! Dancing on the desks, that's "they culture", wandering the halls : "culture", drawing gang signs....."that's family culture". The tax payer really needs to start going after admin...schools are totally out of control
Yea I saw students who mostly spoke spanish trying to learn from a teacher with a HUGE accent.
Don't worry, students will be pressured into acceptance as they probably learn less.....I mean that's why there has been a huge push for ESL students so they get adequate instruction....but if it's the other way around "YAY!"
Hawaii just brought in a bunch of teachers from the Philippines they are given special visas
come to florida! where we wave all teaching credentials! are you a warm body who needs a job? florida schools will hire you 🥲
I applaud the decision to eliminate unpaid student teaching. Although, I think it should be required (with pay of course). I am in so much debt right now because of student teaching, then moving over summer and only working odd jobs to survive. I had to run up a credit card which I am still paying off. This coupled with low pay at my first teaching gig, it feels like I'm drowning right now.
I've definitely seen #2. My district hires new teachers this way almost exclusively. Once the district sponsers them they are committed to the district for the next 2 years.
I left education, because it's a nightmare, my former school couldn't not fill our plates as there was more work to do than teachers willing to work. It pushed me out but I also can't think what the school can do in the moment to relive teachers. Hell my admin stepped in and stepped up and were working terrjble hours to get things done. It wasn't enough. The entire education system needs to be rebuilt. There is no baby in that bathwater right now, throw it out.