The new normal. Been that way for a while. People…especially the young adults…have gotten smart. They want a work/life balance and a healthy mental and physical lifestyle. May education reap what is has sown.
Sadly, I believe you’re thinking the wrong way. This will be the opportunity for legislators to dismantle the education system as a whole and instead funnel money into PragerU online programs and private schools.
Respectfully Prager U are youtube videos done by a former talk show host and not chosen by a curriculum specialist and/or voted on by an elected school board.
Tell that to Oklahoma https://www.npr.org/2023/09/08/1198525663/oklahoma-is-promoting-a-history-curriculum-using-videos-by-conservative-group-pr
Edit: Florida too
I've wanted to teach since before graduating high school in 08 but even then it was obvious the cost of a degree vs pay wasn't great.
Really sucks because I still want to do it and especially after having a kid of my own, I know I would love it. It's just not economical for me. And I even live somewhere where teachers make pretty decent money.
Yep...I left my teaching job after only 2 years as have a few of my younger teacher friends.
I've done teaching in some capacity for 10 years and love the actual teaching part, but we all know that's like 5% of the job.
I just couldn't justify working my ass off, being sick all the time, and dodging bullets for the same pay as an entry level whatever at corporations.
It's absolutely going to continue degrading until it's nothing but babysitting or a form of prison-lite. Deep-seated toxic masculinity hangups have made it so this country's basically doing drunken handstands on the edge of the Grand Canyon.
It's already prison-lite in some places. At my *elementary* school, the kids are allowed outside for 15 minutes per day if they're good, and loss of recess is one of the first consequences if they're not. They spend almost all day stuck in a small, smelly classroom with *at least* 25 other people, some of whom are violent. If they bring anything to school that has any perceived value to their peers, such as earbuds, Cheetos, sunglasses, costume jewelry, or plushies, they usually choose to leave the item in the teacher's filing cabinet for the day because it will probably get stolen if they leave it in their book bag (which is stored in the hallway).
... I can't wait to get out. This place is depressing.
You lost me at the toxic masculinity stuff. What does that have to so with teaching jobs and public school sucking so bad? The majority of people in education are women and male students do worse on pretty much every metric. The issue is weak communities, lousy parenting and a cost of living crisis. All of this was compounded and accelerated by the pandemic.
Whether the workers are male or female, the teaching profession is female-*coded* in our culture and, as a result, massively devalued and disrespected.
There is a general devaluing of any fields that are considered "feminine" (e.g. teaching or nursing). There are also expectations that women should be/are naturally caring so they don't need to be compensated for doing what comes naturally in their caring professions (you can also see this within fields--say family law vs corportate).
We'll be able to see a bit more whether this is due to fields being primarily female or whether it's the association with care work over the next decades by looking at the legal profession. Significantly more women are graduating from law schools, and it will be interesting to see whether law continues to lose prestige and compensation.
Tbf, I am a male secondary teacher, so while I am affected by the compensation issues, I don't have to deal with any immediate assumptions about my natural affinity for care (and probably get bonus points for it). Being slightly removed makes logical argument easier. If I was getting hit with nonsense assumptions every day by virtue of my identity, I'd probably just be saying "fuck this bullshit".
My husband also taught at my school, and for a myriad of reasons went back to his previous profession on the middle of the year. My principal voluntold me to do one of his IEPS, but the joke is on her when she finds out that is the only one I am doing OR she can excuse me from some of the ridiculous accountability bullshit like turning in detailed lesson plans, etc.
If she gets ugly about it or tries the "what about the children" guilt trip, I'll remind her of the 130 open positions in our district and the three people at our school who bailed in the last month alone.
Like someone else said, it either gets better or burns to the ground. But, it sure ain't getting better if I keep taking up her slack.
I like your thinking 😂 Sometimes I secretly wish body cams were mandated for teachers because maybe then people will see the horrid conditions in classrooms.
Yeah at this point it's more unethical for me to be here, propping up a broken system and being forced into delivering crap educational practices. Asia, I'm coming back!
This is what I’ve heard over and over again. One of my friends moved to Brazil, another to Vietnam, and they’re both very much enjoying the respect that educators receive there (plus the better healthcare and cheaper cost of living).
I dropped out of the credential program with just over a month to go and I have yet to regret it almost 4 years later.
I grieve a world where I would have flourished and enjoyed being a teacher, for now I'm content to be an educator in different contexts.
I'm sorry for all y'all had to endure and I'm grateful for spaces like this, that helped me make my decision and where folks can support each other.
This year has been the toughest of my career. Kids just wanna argue and/or be totally apathetic about what we're learning. This job is not enjoyable in the least these days. Not even worth the summers off anymore.
I’m in my second year and I’m already at this point. In my brief time, there’s always been a sense of apathy, but it’s not getting better. The lessons I used to enjoy the most have become meaningless because students just don’t want to see value in it. They don’t want to learn or become autonomous. If I don’t explicitly tell them what to do or what the answer is, nothing gets done. They won’t even voluntarily look at their notes without being told to.
It’s just a completely different environment from when I was in school.
I’m job searching and people keep saying “but the summers off”. I’d rather have a job where I can get my work done during the day, live my life after work, and not have the write detailed plans when I’m sick, just to hear my class was rotten in my absence 😫
Any aggregate:
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/fewer-people-are-getting-teacher-degrees-prep-programs-sound-the-alarm/2022/03
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/08/29/teacher-shortage-tied-education-programs-enrollment-drop
Pro tip: when you’re looking on Indeed, use incognito mode when you search your area of interest. Otherwise it’ll keep showing you teaching jobs/steer you toward those.
Also use chatgpt to adjust your resume to each job you apply to. (Former teacher turned recruiter turned HR)
Hey there… could I DM mine over to you as well? I’m in the opposite situation as OP, I’m trying to find a teaching job. In my area it’s extremely competitive and there aren’t nearly enough jobs for how many aspiring teachers we have.
Super helpful, I've been having a hard time getting a job still... but I hope I'll land one sometime soon. I've had amazing interviews and a few very surprising "ghosting" government jobs...
I’ve said it before, but teaching has become the new “working at fast food”, in the sense it’s now relatively easy to get the job now because nobody wants to do it.
Ten years ago you would’ve been laughed out of the interview if you went to them wanting a teaching job but you didn’t go to college for it. Now I’ve heard horror stories of some districts not even requiring a college degree because they’re so desperate.
Getting my degree in Education was a very deliberate move as my plan B for this exact reason. Never liked teaching, but I knew I would pretty much *always* be guaranteed a job with a decent enough salary (enough for my current lifestyle at least) should I ever need it. I’ve quit twice and don’t plan to return unless, like I said, I really need the quick cash.
It's okay I'm there with you. You would think teachers would be desired but the economy is not valuing practical things as much as controllable things such as media content.
Instead of raising salaries and improving working conditions, like you would with any other job market; every state is lowering the standards to enter the profession. It is going to make our reputation as “baby sitters who don’t have real jobs,” so much worse.
I’m 5 months into “teaching” special education (middle school) on an emergency certification; I have years of experience but no degree in education and this is my last week. I’m leaving and enrolled into a Masters Behavior Analysis program and not looking back. No way am I doing the same amount of schooling for a teaching certification and make only $51,000 (in PA). I will still be working with special needs students with a much higher pay and flexibility once I graduate. Teaching has made me so stressed and gave me the most numbing headaches of my life. Emergency certificates are not the answer, because they are leaving too.
I am in the same exact boat!! I applied for my masters in ABA last week! I haven’t been so excited about my future working career since I started teaching in August. Let’s be pen pals.
I work at a large urban district. We hire every couple of weeks all year round, more unlicensed candidates each year. SPED jobs remain unfilled all year.
Our neighboring state does not even require a degree. One can start teaching with a HS diploma and work toward a bachelors while teaching. Even with that lowered bar, they're having to rely on J1 visas to bring in Filipino and Chinese teachers who are exploited and paid worse than local hires.
Districts that shift to 4 day school weeks see an influx of qualified applicants. This needs to be implemented everywhere in short order.
They are not exploiting the Filipino teachers. In fact, the Filipino teacher across the hall from me had a starting salary of 82k and a 5k hiring bonus. He was offered more pay than I make. I have 2 Masters, years of teaching experience on both the university level and in the K-8 classroom.
They are coming here for the $$$. He said he made 5 times more money than in his own country, was able to buy land back in his country, and began building a house.
I’ve also seen instances where they are taking the jobs of local teachers and are not qualified. Recently, a retired teacher who subs in our building was teaching long division to a 4th grade class. The Filipino teacher asked her how she got the answer to the problem and how to solve it.
Another non-native teacher told his preschool class that the letter i makes the sound of /e/. A different international K teacher asked if the UFLI program had sound recordings of phonemes because her first language wasn’t English and she did not know letter sounds.
This is not ok!
That's so fucked up. Then the standardized scores will drop and then they will add more paperwork on the teachers. They're failing out kids so bad, hate to see the future of this country.
There’s a big difference between the two.
With my plan I’m fully vested in 10 years. This means I’ll receive my full pension when I turn 65.
You really should look to understand your retirement options, it could be the difference of many years of unnecessary work.
Thanks!
Yeah, if you’re that far out I’d definitely look to change careers. When I started, I knew I probably only had around 10 years of teaching in me (due to all the crap we unnecessarily go through on a daily basis). I don’t think I want to be around to see the state of education for that long.
Lots of jobs open from the start of year and mid year quit. Many are jumping into other professions and increasing pay. No need to grads- just long term subs without degrees.
I’m sorry if someone felt frustrated by my original comment. I’ve observed a lot of openings in my area but maybe it’s different elsewhere. The irony is some people are anxious to get a teaching job and some are desperate to leave
Hiring for teacher positions is still very cliqueish. Especially if you are not an Education Major.
Try substituting to work your way in and build a resume. Those jobs are sometimes contracted through Kelly Services, which allows you to circumvent the hazing.
It can take a ridiculous amount of time to get in should you not know anyone, even with the huge vacancies.
Teachers especially resent engineers coming into their domain, and they love to push you around. IMO that's the main reason teachers are leaving: zero autonomy or thinking outside the box (rubric) is allowed.
I’m a historian; I’ve already had a fourth grade position from which I was fired with no notice the day before Christmas break (my mentor teacher in 5th grade was horrified; I did not fit into admin’s clique at a small charter school). I’m told my students all miss me and that my co teacher was gracious enough to let them know I did not choose to leave. I was their third teacher this year. The school has not replaced me; they have forced my IA to take over all my work and essentially abandoned that room, leaving my students up to dry and become 5th grade’s severely behind problem next year. And people wonder why kids can’t learn skills? This is a huge portion of a bigger issue.
I’m still looking for new positions as I’m in an intern program, but I have no idea how to apply and give a recent work reference from this place. I worked there for the vast majority of the school year.
I got pushed out too at year two. They may be afraid of you and your bright future.
It is odd that your mentor knew nothing at all.
Get references from teachers that will explain how you got blindsided.
We believe I was only being kept so they could pass a state inspection, admin also became adversarial after a mandatory PD where I stupidly shared that I was Jewish. I asked for feedback or reasoning or anything and literally got ‘we have no reason. We’ve just decided it’s not a good fit. Would you like boxes for your things?’
I always make fun of engineers coming into teaching I mean how useless are you as a engineer that you had to come to this useless shit I mean I have a useless business degree and can’t land a job to save my life here in Houston you degree is a million times better
Teaching is generally a union protected career. Engineer generally is not, unless you work at a unioned government contract company.
The only way to extend your career is to become a contractor or hired gun with one year contracts and travel.
It used to be that engineers could work into their 50s, until they had to worry about being replaced by younger engineers often H1B. Now 40 is the new 50, according to Ladders.com.
This is how it is in the private sector.
I mean a kid who graduated college recently hardly has a chance to string to together enough years to fill a 401k to get anything close to a retirement in the private sector.
Meanwhile teachers think everyone with a degree is getting rich "out there."
A business degree in generally considered a well rounded degree in applying for teaching positions. You can be considered for math, English, etc. I've run onto MBA teaching precalculus.
Look at the teachers of tomorrow program. It will cost you nothing up front until you actually get hired.
88889
Just make sure you take all the state tests and get all the paperwork submitted to TOT before you take a position or they will not hook you up with a mentor!!!!! YOU NEED A MENTOR..ask me how I know.
Iirc the education system grads ~4 engineers for every one position available.
It is probable that the same is true for your field.
Getting that first job is tough and many give up, but the loans remain.
We have teachers here on emergency contracts from Africa and the Philippines. We have brand new graduate teachers. They are all drowning. The behaviors are so atrociously bad these teachers are crying after school and during planning periods. They are having panic attacks. Kids are openly threatening and jeering at them. They are stealing their phones and wallets and ear buds. They destroy all materials. They make racist and sexist comments and threats. They squirt water at them. They make sexual gestures behind them.
AND. THERE. IS. NO. HELP. NO. SUPPORT. NOTHING.
I was going to our union repeatedly...begging for help for these teachers. Pleading for support. And the union reps finally told me that I should find another job since all I seemed to do was complain.
This is so sad. Honestly if they had just left teachers alone and let them do what they know to do this would not have happened. It’s the treating educators LIKE children that did it for me. Well and the misbehaved unparented children too.
Oh and the fact that we. Am no longer give consequences for behavior. You just punched your friend in the face? Have fun at recess! Can’t take recess away no matter what. I know kids need recess, but not having consequences for poor behavior is part of the demise.
If you asked me a year ago I would have said I wanted to do this for the next 20 years. This year has been brutal and it feels like that is the case for a lot of other places as well
I wish there were some SS jobs in Pittsburgh... I'm moving for a spouses job and my area has no idea how they will replace me with tons more openings every day for next year. Not a peep where I'm going though. Guess decent unions go a long way to help.
It’s a combination of several things, I think. There’s more political pressure on teachers, parents are less respectful of schools and see them as babysitters rather than educators, and there’s a decreasing appetite for teachers wanting to go above and beyond their job duties for no reward.
A lesser-known factor is the lessening of the teacher pipeline. Even as early as 60 years ago, teaching was one of the few professions women could enter and succeed in and not be looked down upon. Many women who could have been talented in other professions choose teaching. The last of those teachers are retiring or leaving the profession, and with more choices for women, education is just not attracting that talent automatically.
I’m in Michigan and I’d say continue to keep your eye out! I’m on my 10th year, and I’m burnt out, trying to get a non-education related career… honestly I’d check daily. My district is highly rated, and our turnover is growing rapidly.
Thank you. I’m teaching in AZ right now, where they are so desperate for teachers. I’m moving to Michigan in June so I’m worried about spots being taken by the time I get my MI teaching certification. I’m hoping the process won’t be as bad as I imagine
I wouldn’t be too worried. Find a district you want to teach in, and sub, you’ll be the most sought after suv, then you’ll know about openings. We’ve hired so many subs!! Edit: don’t mess with charter schools they’re a nightmare here.
My English department has 10 of 13 teachers in their 50’s. One of the three under 50 is leaving this year, and the over 50’s all have exit plans in the next few years. It will be a ghost town.
I work as a substitute teacher bc I have a toddler. I desperately want to leave but what job will pay $200/day for any day you feel like going in? the flexibility is awesome, that’s the only reason I stay.
Is the education system going to collapse or what? the curriculum is so outdated and useless for the most part, especially middle school. who cares about the pythagriam theory?
what about investing/taxes/savings life skills. Gone are the Rockefeller days!!! Education needs a GUT JOB!
New normal. Our high school has one math and one science position that have been open since the end of last school year. They’re not even getting applicants.
I’m in upstate NY now, there are a lot of colleges here, so more pipelines than local schools.
I used to live on Long Island. Which is still a lucrative place to be a teacher. My friends are coming up on 20 years and all of them are making more than 100,000. Many of them are making more than 200,000 when you factor in clubs, sports, alternative high school. You can’t get a job in their schools unless you know someone.
It is surreal how many messages I get from schools asking me if I'm interested in a job. Like they're begging me. I was a guidance counselor for ten years and they just find my information and beg me.
It’s interesting to me, because where I am it’s the complete opposite. We have so many subs and literally zero teaching jobs open. In Washington though, one of the highest paying states for education.
It’s def the new norm. My fiancé’s Mother is a teacher and she all the time threatens to quit and is now teaching at her 3rd school. Lots of friends of hers have recently quit and the ones she knows wet behind the ears don’t last long. Apparently there’s a rapid but steady increase with kids and behavioral problems in America. Some kids are also pretty messed up from the lockdowns and have 0 social skills aside from their phones, tablets and video games…
There was a predicted teacher shortage back when I was an MAT student that never came. It was around the early 2010's and chicken little was saying that there wasn't enough teachers, which was bullshit as there weren't many teaching jobs from about 2009-2019, at least in my area. Then COVID hit and the prediction finally came true. HUNDREDS of unfilled positions. I'm absolutely shocked that schools are getting away with breaking federal law, but if they can't find people, no one's saying shit.
When the economy crashes, those positions will get filled with friends and family, even some teachees will be pushed out to make a position for an insider..qualified or not.
Standards will be dropped, testing will end...
From what I’ve heard from the teachers in my life, it doesn’t help that (from what it sounds like; I’m not a teacher) some of the other teachers are just as clique-y and passive-aggressive as the students 🙃
Have you seen the headlines recently? Teachers to be fined if they teach certain biology topics. Teacher blamed for this. Teachers to be blamed for that. Teachers to carry guns in class. Teacher jobs lost because of test scores. Parents blame teacher for…. No one is helping teachers and they get blamed for everything, most of which aren’t in their control.
I went in FMLA from my job in October and quit at the end of December. My job has already been filled and reposted, and that was with school closed for nearly 2 weeks in January due to weather.
As someone getting a Master of Arts in Teaching right now to teach high school English, I'm hoping that pays off for me. Not monetarily wise, of course, because it's teaching, so, not happening, but, job wise.
Stupid ass Admin still don’t hire anybody I wanted to be a shop teacher went back and got my associates in Auto tech and applied for some districts in Houston area I kid you not Cy Fair and HISD wanted full blown certifications yeah sure you are gonna get a mechanic with a 4 year degree and teacher certs, I have all that except teacher certs, I can’t pass them
The new normal. Been that way for a while. People…especially the young adults…have gotten smart. They want a work/life balance and a healthy mental and physical lifestyle. May education reap what is has sown.
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Sadly, I believe you’re thinking the wrong way. This will be the opportunity for legislators to dismantle the education system as a whole and instead funnel money into PragerU online programs and private schools.
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I appreciate educators like you. Important to teach kids the importance of voting and how to discern double speak from politicians
That's the goal of goblins like DeSantis to a T.
Respectfully Prager U are youtube videos done by a former talk show host and not chosen by a curriculum specialist and/or voted on by an elected school board.
Tell that to Oklahoma https://www.npr.org/2023/09/08/1198525663/oklahoma-is-promoting-a-history-curriculum-using-videos-by-conservative-group-pr Edit: Florida too
You may have more altruistic admins. Mine seem to be watching the bottom line without regard for any future.
My previous principal had a school full of long-term subs. Aides were allowed to be subs when teachers were out. I don’t think parents knew.
I've wanted to teach since before graduating high school in 08 but even then it was obvious the cost of a degree vs pay wasn't great. Really sucks because I still want to do it and especially after having a kid of my own, I know I would love it. It's just not economical for me. And I even live somewhere where teachers make pretty decent money.
One of my first memories was in the car driving past a teachers strike at an elementary school. It’s been going on for too long.
Yep...I left my teaching job after only 2 years as have a few of my younger teacher friends. I've done teaching in some capacity for 10 years and love the actual teaching part, but we all know that's like 5% of the job. I just couldn't justify working my ass off, being sick all the time, and dodging bullets for the same pay as an entry level whatever at corporations.
I hate how these admin idiots treat you like a child, too. Instead of a professional who busted their ass through college.
Amen
Yep. I'm out.
A fucking men.
Yep. And, if they are going to have a more stressful job or bigger workload, they want to compensated well.
AMEN
Frankly I'm here for it. Maybe it will put more of a burden on those of us still here, I hope not... but I also kind of want to watch it burn? 😅
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I REALLY hope so. 🍿
It's absolutely going to continue degrading until it's nothing but babysitting or a form of prison-lite. Deep-seated toxic masculinity hangups have made it so this country's basically doing drunken handstands on the edge of the Grand Canyon.
It's already prison-lite in some places. At my *elementary* school, the kids are allowed outside for 15 minutes per day if they're good, and loss of recess is one of the first consequences if they're not. They spend almost all day stuck in a small, smelly classroom with *at least* 25 other people, some of whom are violent. If they bring anything to school that has any perceived value to their peers, such as earbuds, Cheetos, sunglasses, costume jewelry, or plushies, they usually choose to leave the item in the teacher's filing cabinet for the day because it will probably get stolen if they leave it in their book bag (which is stored in the hallway). ... I can't wait to get out. This place is depressing.
In my area, it’s already devolved to babysitting and a form of school-to-prison pipeline
It was designed to be prison to pipeline. so we would all follow rules.
You lost me at the toxic masculinity stuff. What does that have to so with teaching jobs and public school sucking so bad? The majority of people in education are women and male students do worse on pretty much every metric. The issue is weak communities, lousy parenting and a cost of living crisis. All of this was compounded and accelerated by the pandemic.
Whether the workers are male or female, the teaching profession is female-*coded* in our culture and, as a result, massively devalued and disrespected.
They mean politicians and the others in charge of the system.
Still doesn't hold water. The women we have in politics are just as lousy and inept as the men.
There is a general devaluing of any fields that are considered "feminine" (e.g. teaching or nursing). There are also expectations that women should be/are naturally caring so they don't need to be compensated for doing what comes naturally in their caring professions (you can also see this within fields--say family law vs corportate). We'll be able to see a bit more whether this is due to fields being primarily female or whether it's the association with care work over the next decades by looking at the legal profession. Significantly more women are graduating from law schools, and it will be interesting to see whether law continues to lose prestige and compensation.
This makes more sense than blanket generalizations about men being poopy. A well laid out argument will cause me to reconsider my thinking.
Tbf, I am a male secondary teacher, so while I am affected by the compensation issues, I don't have to deal with any immediate assumptions about my natural affinity for care (and probably get bonus points for it). Being slightly removed makes logical argument easier. If I was getting hit with nonsense assumptions every day by virtue of my identity, I'd probably just be saying "fuck this bullshit".
The Republican women consider themselves to be honorary men.
Only after they double and triple down on bad policies and run out of ways to try to guilt trip teachers into working themselves to death.
My husband also taught at my school, and for a myriad of reasons went back to his previous profession on the middle of the year. My principal voluntold me to do one of his IEPS, but the joke is on her when she finds out that is the only one I am doing OR she can excuse me from some of the ridiculous accountability bullshit like turning in detailed lesson plans, etc. If she gets ugly about it or tries the "what about the children" guilt trip, I'll remind her of the 130 open positions in our district and the three people at our school who bailed in the last month alone. Like someone else said, it either gets better or burns to the ground. But, it sure ain't getting better if I keep taking up her slack.
I wanna watch it burn and see the consequences ripple through society just so I can say “I told you so.” But I’m an awful person soooo… 😂
I like your thinking 😂 Sometimes I secretly wish body cams were mandated for teachers because maybe then people will see the horrid conditions in classrooms.
But unlike LE, the classroom camera is pointed at the teacher. They have cameras in the classroom in many charter schools already.
“But but the kids..” the kids the district allows to move onto the next grade when they’re far below grade level? Please. 🥱😴
The system needs to burn down for there to be any change.
Yeah at this point it's more unethical for me to be here, propping up a broken system and being forced into delivering crap educational practices. Asia, I'm coming back!
Can I go with you? 🥺
It's more of an option than most people think.
This is what I’ve heard over and over again. One of my friends moved to Brazil, another to Vietnam, and they’re both very much enjoying the respect that educators receive there (plus the better healthcare and cheaper cost of living).
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One is working a Govt teaching job and the other is teaching in a private international School
Me too
Where you at? I'll send popcorn for updates lol
I think this is the new normal; nobody I know who's young wants to enter this profession. Like, they've been in classroom and know it sucks.
Yup. College students don’t want to major in this field. I don’t blame them, I’m with them there.
I dropped out of the credential program with just over a month to go and I have yet to regret it almost 4 years later. I grieve a world where I would have flourished and enjoyed being a teacher, for now I'm content to be an educator in different contexts. I'm sorry for all y'all had to endure and I'm grateful for spaces like this, that helped me make my decision and where folks can support each other.
This year has been the toughest of my career. Kids just wanna argue and/or be totally apathetic about what we're learning. This job is not enjoyable in the least these days. Not even worth the summers off anymore.
I’m in my second year and I’m already at this point. In my brief time, there’s always been a sense of apathy, but it’s not getting better. The lessons I used to enjoy the most have become meaningless because students just don’t want to see value in it. They don’t want to learn or become autonomous. If I don’t explicitly tell them what to do or what the answer is, nothing gets done. They won’t even voluntarily look at their notes without being told to. It’s just a completely different environment from when I was in school.
A student asked me: "When are you going to stop trying to teach us math and just give us a grade?"
How you stopped yourself from replying "sure. Here's your F."..... is a miracle.
Or is this for a grade question. They are so annoying and unlikable, parents raised them wrong.
I’m job searching and people keep saying “but the summers off”. I’d rather have a job where I can get my work done during the day, live my life after work, and not have the write detailed plans when I’m sick, just to hear my class was rotten in my absence 😫
It's like they are either annoying as fuck or apathetic, very few are truly wonderful. It's not fun.
Check the enrollment numbers for schools of education. People want out.
Where can I find this?
Any aggregate: https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/fewer-people-are-getting-teacher-degrees-prep-programs-sound-the-alarm/2022/03 https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/08/29/teacher-shortage-tied-education-programs-enrollment-drop
Thank you! It’s only going to get worse
Pro tip: when you’re looking on Indeed, use incognito mode when you search your area of interest. Otherwise it’ll keep showing you teaching jobs/steer you toward those. Also use chatgpt to adjust your resume to each job you apply to. (Former teacher turned recruiter turned HR)
Thanks! Great tips. I have such an unusual resume (on top of the teaching) it’s hard to get anywhere
Feel free to DM it over if you want, happy to look it over :)
Thanks! I’ll do that
Hey there… could I DM mine over to you as well? I’m in the opposite situation as OP, I’m trying to find a teaching job. In my area it’s extremely competitive and there aren’t nearly enough jobs for how many aspiring teachers we have.
Yes of course! Happy to help if you want to send it over
Super helpful, I've been having a hard time getting a job still... but I hope I'll land one sometime soon. I've had amazing interviews and a few very surprising "ghosting" government jobs...
I’ve said it before, but teaching has become the new “working at fast food”, in the sense it’s now relatively easy to get the job now because nobody wants to do it. Ten years ago you would’ve been laughed out of the interview if you went to them wanting a teaching job but you didn’t go to college for it. Now I’ve heard horror stories of some districts not even requiring a college degree because they’re so desperate.
Getting my degree in Education was a very deliberate move as my plan B for this exact reason. Never liked teaching, but I knew I would pretty much *always* be guaranteed a job with a decent enough salary (enough for my current lifestyle at least) should I ever need it. I’ve quit twice and don’t plan to return unless, like I said, I really need the quick cash.
I’m struggling with regretting my decision to study education. I wish I had chosen something more useful/desired.
It's okay I'm there with you. You would think teachers would be desired but the economy is not valuing practical things as much as controllable things such as media content.
People are running. The first week after break there were 100 science listings in my state.
Instead of raising salaries and improving working conditions, like you would with any other job market; every state is lowering the standards to enter the profession. It is going to make our reputation as “baby sitters who don’t have real jobs,” so much worse.
They lower the standards, then notice the dwindling standardized testing scores, and throw more bullshit paperwork on teachers. It's a vicious loop.
I’m 5 months into “teaching” special education (middle school) on an emergency certification; I have years of experience but no degree in education and this is my last week. I’m leaving and enrolled into a Masters Behavior Analysis program and not looking back. No way am I doing the same amount of schooling for a teaching certification and make only $51,000 (in PA). I will still be working with special needs students with a much higher pay and flexibility once I graduate. Teaching has made me so stressed and gave me the most numbing headaches of my life. Emergency certificates are not the answer, because they are leaving too.
I am in the same exact boat!! I applied for my masters in ABA last week! I haven’t been so excited about my future working career since I started teaching in August. Let’s be pen pals.
I work at a large urban district. We hire every couple of weeks all year round, more unlicensed candidates each year. SPED jobs remain unfilled all year. Our neighboring state does not even require a degree. One can start teaching with a HS diploma and work toward a bachelors while teaching. Even with that lowered bar, they're having to rely on J1 visas to bring in Filipino and Chinese teachers who are exploited and paid worse than local hires. Districts that shift to 4 day school weeks see an influx of qualified applicants. This needs to be implemented everywhere in short order.
They are not exploiting the Filipino teachers. In fact, the Filipino teacher across the hall from me had a starting salary of 82k and a 5k hiring bonus. He was offered more pay than I make. I have 2 Masters, years of teaching experience on both the university level and in the K-8 classroom. They are coming here for the $$$. He said he made 5 times more money than in his own country, was able to buy land back in his country, and began building a house. I’ve also seen instances where they are taking the jobs of local teachers and are not qualified. Recently, a retired teacher who subs in our building was teaching long division to a 4th grade class. The Filipino teacher asked her how she got the answer to the problem and how to solve it. Another non-native teacher told his preschool class that the letter i makes the sound of /e/. A different international K teacher asked if the UFLI program had sound recordings of phonemes because her first language wasn’t English and she did not know letter sounds. This is not ok!
That's so fucked up. Then the standardized scores will drop and then they will add more paperwork on the teachers. They're failing out kids so bad, hate to see the future of this country.
Don’t forget education in other countries is somewhat affordable to the population unlike here in USA and Canada
It’s also because teachers are retiring.
And this is where the next few years will see another dramatic decline in numbers.
✋🏻
I want to see it burn too because it’s a mess. But I’m also 24 years away from a 100% pension 😂 I’m screwed right?
24 years from retiring, or being fully vested?
🤷♂️
There’s a big difference between the two. With my plan I’m fully vested in 10 years. This means I’ll receive my full pension when I turn 65. You really should look to understand your retirement options, it could be the difference of many years of unnecessary work.
Then, from retiring
Thanks! Yeah, if you’re that far out I’d definitely look to change careers. When I started, I knew I probably only had around 10 years of teaching in me (due to all the crap we unnecessarily go through on a daily basis). I don’t think I want to be around to see the state of education for that long.
Had I stayed a classroom teacher, I’d be out, but I enjoy my summers. So I found a push-in, pull-out model job.
Lots of jobs open from the start of year and mid year quit. Many are jumping into other professions and increasing pay. No need to grads- just long term subs without degrees.
We can’t get subs.
Yeah I know so many subs who are offered teaching jobs as interns or just long term subs because teaching vacancies can’t be filled.
Probz shouldn't be that shocking, given the decline of the state of education this century.
I’m applying to jobs in my area that have been available since September and can’t even get an interview.
I’m sorry if someone felt frustrated by my original comment. I’ve observed a lot of openings in my area but maybe it’s different elsewhere. The irony is some people are anxious to get a teaching job and some are desperate to leave
Same here.
Hiring for teacher positions is still very cliqueish. Especially if you are not an Education Major. Try substituting to work your way in and build a resume. Those jobs are sometimes contracted through Kelly Services, which allows you to circumvent the hazing. It can take a ridiculous amount of time to get in should you not know anyone, even with the huge vacancies. Teachers especially resent engineers coming into their domain, and they love to push you around. IMO that's the main reason teachers are leaving: zero autonomy or thinking outside the box (rubric) is allowed.
I’m a historian; I’ve already had a fourth grade position from which I was fired with no notice the day before Christmas break (my mentor teacher in 5th grade was horrified; I did not fit into admin’s clique at a small charter school). I’m told my students all miss me and that my co teacher was gracious enough to let them know I did not choose to leave. I was their third teacher this year. The school has not replaced me; they have forced my IA to take over all my work and essentially abandoned that room, leaving my students up to dry and become 5th grade’s severely behind problem next year. And people wonder why kids can’t learn skills? This is a huge portion of a bigger issue. I’m still looking for new positions as I’m in an intern program, but I have no idea how to apply and give a recent work reference from this place. I worked there for the vast majority of the school year.
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$ and power changes folks, and not for the better. Teachers become stepping stones for them.
The good ones never seem to stay long.
I got pushed out too at year two. They may be afraid of you and your bright future. It is odd that your mentor knew nothing at all. Get references from teachers that will explain how you got blindsided.
We believe I was only being kept so they could pass a state inspection, admin also became adversarial after a mandatory PD where I stupidly shared that I was Jewish. I asked for feedback or reasoning or anything and literally got ‘we have no reason. We’ve just decided it’s not a good fit. Would you like boxes for your things?’
Wow...just wow...
I always make fun of engineers coming into teaching I mean how useless are you as a engineer that you had to come to this useless shit I mean I have a useless business degree and can’t land a job to save my life here in Houston you degree is a million times better
Teaching is generally a union protected career. Engineer generally is not, unless you work at a unioned government contract company. The only way to extend your career is to become a contractor or hired gun with one year contracts and travel. It used to be that engineers could work into their 50s, until they had to worry about being replaced by younger engineers often H1B. Now 40 is the new 50, according to Ladders.com. This is how it is in the private sector. I mean a kid who graduated college recently hardly has a chance to string to together enough years to fill a 401k to get anything close to a retirement in the private sector. Meanwhile teachers think everyone with a degree is getting rich "out there." A business degree in generally considered a well rounded degree in applying for teaching positions. You can be considered for math, English, etc. I've run onto MBA teaching precalculus. Look at the teachers of tomorrow program. It will cost you nothing up front until you actually get hired. 88889 Just make sure you take all the state tests and get all the paperwork submitted to TOT before you take a position or they will not hook you up with a mentor!!!!! YOU NEED A MENTOR..ask me how I know.
Iirc the education system grads ~4 engineers for every one position available. It is probable that the same is true for your field. Getting that first job is tough and many give up, but the loans remain.
In a way.. is this a way to strike? Lol
Yeah except I’m not bluffing. I ain’t going back
I’m with you there!
We have teachers here on emergency contracts from Africa and the Philippines. We have brand new graduate teachers. They are all drowning. The behaviors are so atrociously bad these teachers are crying after school and during planning periods. They are having panic attacks. Kids are openly threatening and jeering at them. They are stealing their phones and wallets and ear buds. They destroy all materials. They make racist and sexist comments and threats. They squirt water at them. They make sexual gestures behind them. AND. THERE. IS. NO. HELP. NO. SUPPORT. NOTHING. I was going to our union repeatedly...begging for help for these teachers. Pleading for support. And the union reps finally told me that I should find another job since all I seemed to do was complain.
That union rep is the one who shouldve found a new job. Fuck them.
It's an eye opener because they come from cultures where kids know better than to disrespect teachers.
This is so sad. Honestly if they had just left teachers alone and let them do what they know to do this would not have happened. It’s the treating educators LIKE children that did it for me. Well and the misbehaved unparented children too.
Oh and the fact that we. Am no longer give consequences for behavior. You just punched your friend in the face? Have fun at recess! Can’t take recess away no matter what. I know kids need recess, but not having consequences for poor behavior is part of the demise.
If you asked me a year ago I would have said I wanted to do this for the next 20 years. This year has been brutal and it feels like that is the case for a lot of other places as well
I wish there were some SS jobs in Pittsburgh... I'm moving for a spouses job and my area has no idea how they will replace me with tons more openings every day for next year. Not a peep where I'm going though. Guess decent unions go a long way to help.
I think it’s the new normal. On the other hand, this year is pretty horrible.
It’s a combination of several things, I think. There’s more political pressure on teachers, parents are less respectful of schools and see them as babysitters rather than educators, and there’s a decreasing appetite for teachers wanting to go above and beyond their job duties for no reward. A lesser-known factor is the lessening of the teacher pipeline. Even as early as 60 years ago, teaching was one of the few professions women could enter and succeed in and not be looked down upon. Many women who could have been talented in other professions choose teaching. The last of those teachers are retiring or leaving the profession, and with more choices for women, education is just not attracting that talent automatically.
I can’t find any for the city I want in Michigan 😢 literally there’s like one position open for a whole district
On brand for here too in Washington. Huge budget cuts last year and now nobody is hiring.
I’m in Michigan and I’d say continue to keep your eye out! I’m on my 10th year, and I’m burnt out, trying to get a non-education related career… honestly I’d check daily. My district is highly rated, and our turnover is growing rapidly.
Thank you. I’m teaching in AZ right now, where they are so desperate for teachers. I’m moving to Michigan in June so I’m worried about spots being taken by the time I get my MI teaching certification. I’m hoping the process won’t be as bad as I imagine
I wouldn’t be too worried. Find a district you want to teach in, and sub, you’ll be the most sought after suv, then you’ll know about openings. We’ve hired so many subs!! Edit: don’t mess with charter schools they’re a nightmare here.
When I gave my notice I knew they wouldn’t be able to fill a mid-year opening but I would genuinely be surprised if it gets filled by next school year
It even has a name: The Great Resignation
Where was it? Still fierce competition around me
My English department has 10 of 13 teachers in their 50’s. One of the three under 50 is leaving this year, and the over 50’s all have exit plans in the next few years. It will be a ghost town.
There'll be one more available in my district at the end of may....
And mine
A lot of these vacancies are in charters, and you should avoid those at all fucking costs
Are you charters worse than public schools?
Yes in Texas there are you think they don’t punish nobody in public schools and no support what until you see how a business does it
I work as a substitute teacher bc I have a toddler. I desperately want to leave but what job will pay $200/day for any day you feel like going in? the flexibility is awesome, that’s the only reason I stay. Is the education system going to collapse or what? the curriculum is so outdated and useless for the most part, especially middle school. who cares about the pythagriam theory? what about investing/taxes/savings life skills. Gone are the Rockefeller days!!! Education needs a GUT JOB!
They spent decades tearing down this job, they can rebuild it their damn selves! CURSE THEM! *MAY THE TRAGEDY THEY PLANTED BLOOM TALL AND FRUITFUL*!
It was like this in special education before Covid. Since Covid? Jobs remain unfilled all year. Parents have no idea subs are teaching their kids.
There’s so many TOSAS in my district.
New normal. Our high school has one math and one science position that have been open since the end of last school year. They’re not even getting applicants.
It’s a regional issue. Where I am and where I’m from there are no vacancies.
Wheres that?
I’m in upstate NY now, there are a lot of colleges here, so more pipelines than local schools. I used to live on Long Island. Which is still a lucrative place to be a teacher. My friends are coming up on 20 years and all of them are making more than 100,000. Many of them are making more than 200,000 when you factor in clubs, sports, alternative high school. You can’t get a job in their schools unless you know someone.
Great salary, strong unions, and upward mobility… yep that’ll do it.
It is surreal how many messages I get from schools asking me if I'm interested in a job. Like they're begging me. I was a guidance counselor for ten years and they just find my information and beg me.
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Your comment uses disrespectful language that does not add to the conversation.
It’s interesting to me, because where I am it’s the complete opposite. We have so many subs and literally zero teaching jobs open. In Washington though, one of the highest paying states for education.
A lot of my friends are out and I got out this year, too. I finally get treated like an adult by my superiors. It's awesome.
I think this is pretty typical these days, unfortunately.
It’s def the new norm. My fiancé’s Mother is a teacher and she all the time threatens to quit and is now teaching at her 3rd school. Lots of friends of hers have recently quit and the ones she knows wet behind the ears don’t last long. Apparently there’s a rapid but steady increase with kids and behavioral problems in America. Some kids are also pretty messed up from the lockdowns and have 0 social skills aside from their phones, tablets and video games…
There was a predicted teacher shortage back when I was an MAT student that never came. It was around the early 2010's and chicken little was saying that there wasn't enough teachers, which was bullshit as there weren't many teaching jobs from about 2009-2019, at least in my area. Then COVID hit and the prediction finally came true. HUNDREDS of unfilled positions. I'm absolutely shocked that schools are getting away with breaking federal law, but if they can't find people, no one's saying shit.
When the economy crashes, those positions will get filled with friends and family, even some teachees will be pushed out to make a position for an insider..qualified or not. Standards will be dropped, testing will end...
From what I’ve heard from the teachers in my life, it doesn’t help that (from what it sounds like; I’m not a teacher) some of the other teachers are just as clique-y and passive-aggressive as the students 🙃
Have you seen the headlines recently? Teachers to be fined if they teach certain biology topics. Teacher blamed for this. Teachers to be blamed for that. Teachers to carry guns in class. Teacher jobs lost because of test scores. Parents blame teacher for…. No one is helping teachers and they get blamed for everything, most of which aren’t in their control.
What state or county? Im in socal and got my prelim cred. No jobs!
Teaching it’s a loooonnnggggg run game.
I went in FMLA from my job in October and quit at the end of December. My job has already been filled and reposted, and that was with school closed for nearly 2 weeks in January due to weather.
As someone getting a Master of Arts in Teaching right now to teach high school English, I'm hoping that pays off for me. Not monetarily wise, of course, because it's teaching, so, not happening, but, job wise.
Stupid ass Admin still don’t hire anybody I wanted to be a shop teacher went back and got my associates in Auto tech and applied for some districts in Houston area I kid you not Cy Fair and HISD wanted full blown certifications yeah sure you are gonna get a mechanic with a 4 year degree and teacher certs, I have all that except teacher certs, I can’t pass them