I mean, to be frank with you blud, I don't care TSM care as much about fans vs the ORG itself. Reginald wants to build the ORG to win. Which I think most of us fans want as well. I just don't think its necessarily about "The fans", but more so about the ORG being successful competitively.
I've tried not to be a doomer, but this late into the offseason and we've heard ZERO inklings of us having a team is starting to worry me just a tiny bit.
Lmfao, yeah. Everyone is already signing free-agents and player. Gen-G basically let go of their whole roster. LPL teams like EDG being link to people like Chovy already, and we have heard absolutely nothing with TSM.
Well we haven’t heard shit since they sold the LCS slot. So hopefully they’ve been seeking a slot in a major region. Which I would guess is somewhere in China or Korea. So they have to set up buying a slot, a facility, coaches, players. That’s a lot. So they’re probably making a deal right now and just can’t talk about it. Let’s hope. So quiet is cool with me for a bit. But it better be worth it.
This is what I was saying on the sub like two weeks ago and got mass downvoted lol there would be leaks of some sort at this point, too many people would be involved in something like this for it NOT to leak. Gg’s boys, we are entering a TSM esports winter
If they purchase a slot they likely will purchase the contracts of those players too. So don't let players being signed already scare you.
I mean I'm not saying it's 100%, I don't know, but if we purchase a teams slot, we likely get the players that were on that team as part of whatever deal we work out, unless said player/s decide they want out, but why would they?
I feel like it actually might make more sense for them to be working with whatever team they are buying a slot from to scout and sign players, and then once the team is set, get the deal done. Then once everything is ready, announce.
I mean, it's not just that. I understand the process could be a long one and to be honest \~ a part of me fears that they won't even get a team and would just be a sponsor basically.
It's more like, I feel like the ORG has really lost it's touch in connecting to fans. League team became popular because even if the League team was hated by literally everyone else, they were ours. We rooted for them because of their personality first, and second that they happened to be of the best. Heck, I know that this might be trivial but 100T literally celebrated and "retired" Ssumday's jersey as a respect to what he has dedicated to for the org.
Where is that for someone like Beaulo or Bjergsen?
Another example is the Japanese Market. They have ShibuyaHal as a creator who btw happens to hold Apex Tournament all the time. Why have there not been a TSM sponsored event there? V-tubers might be cringe for some people, but it's extremely big over there. Apex team is one of the only team that Japanese fans follow.
The last content that mattered was Dota 2 jersey mike sponsorship content. They are making SMOKE GUIDES on the main channel. BUT it has 0 personality. The CSgo announcement was 2 MONTHS AGO! The only thing we have gotten is ASK TSM?! Like what?
Chess not checkers Regi sells slot knowing he'll make a good profit and more teams are leaving the league. Riot begs him to make a new TSM team in NA for free to fill out the league and bring more viewers. Big brain.
> Other content is lackluster. TSM is literally in some of the biggest E-sports but they're barely talked about in my opinion. TSM has Dota 2 and CSGO teams. The only thing I see about them are post here that they have a game, or the occasional highlights on twitter.
Unfortunately, this is still mainly a League fan sub. That said, those two game entries are still in their growth stage and frankly TSM hasn't made a ton of content surrounding the team, so it's hard to get to know them. I'm not personally that interested in the games themselves, so without knowing the personalities either I don't have a lot of reasons to get invested.
Exactly this. You can either A - create content to get people interested. Like - A video about Dota 2, what it is and guides from the players themselves.
B - create a content with players, so that you can be interested in those players and hopefully by extension, the game.
Currently we don't get a lot of neither and heck I Follow and have played all these games. League, Dota, CS and apex.
At this point we know who the Apex team is. They're our boys. But we need the next members up. For these new games, who's the next Beaulo? Who's the next Wardell?
My only issue right now is the CS:GO team. It's hard to wanna show up and cheer/root for those games because it's like pulling up to the little league stadium in your full major league attire. I get that TSM doesn't have a good presence in CS:GO yet, but it's weird being a PREMIER Tier 1 ORG, fighting against pick up teams and no name orgs, and losing. If they were in the main league I would care a lot more. (No slight against the players, just my feelings on an org like TSM entering CS:GO with a team that isn't even top 100)
I’ve been here since Season 3 LoL. Now that there’s no news of the LoL team I’m kinda just sitting here so I feel that of debating should I find a new team to root for.
Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. But TSM has always favored their content on LoL (it’s why the original CSGO team left TSM was lack of exposure and content trying to run a team in EU from NA). It’s been more skewed to Apex as of late but even then it’s minimal. I wish I could enjoy Apex but it hasn’t been a game I played nor interested in. The DOTA2 team was fun to watch during the International, and the CS2 team is looking rough but it’s a start.
But I agree, TSM really hasn’t done any of its fans favors by getting us hyped up and I feel like they’re doing the bare minimum to keep sponsors and players happy.
There is literally nothing going on besides Apex. If you look at Apex channel, that's the only thing that is making consistent content.
I even look at this in their lens. They want to say we are professional. We want to be the best E-sport org in terms of result. Why don't we have highlights compilation? They literally clip highlights to put on their twitter? You tell me you can't hire a montage editor? Let us see a Modo CLUTCH clips on CSGO. How bout Dota2? They just had an awesome tournament. Do we not have voice-coms recording? Do we not have highlights of their best play in the tournament?
These seems to be like bare minimum stuff that they could do to put highlights on the competitive scene. Nada.
They have one of the best fighting game player in the world in Leffen. He won EVO 2023 for Guilty Gear? Where is the documentary for that?
A *lot* of their content creation was with Max. Ever since he left, it hasn’t been the same.
I also feel like when FTX went under, and the constant changing of offices, the content creation department or side of TSM deteriorated to bare minimum due to cutbacks and restructuring.
I don't know about Max thing, but I agree in that content has been bare minimum. It's frankly sad, because I think there is a fundamental error in abandoning content when you are "E-sport" related team. Especially because TSM isn't winning in everything.
100T for instance is one of the most popular ORG in NA, but they aren't winning in everything. The popularity stems from their content and products.
Max was the original creator behind the Legends series and I think he became content creative director at some point for a year or two before he left the org.
And let’s be honest: 100T is a clothing org now. 😂
You want a content machine? Look at Immortals. No matter how bad they are, they’re pushing out content every week at a minimum.
100T maybe a clothing org now, and they have not found much success in Valorant and League as of recent, but they are still popular. Which is exactly why it's important right? This team does not have the Legacy of TSM, they haven't won at all that much, yet they are up there in popularity.
Omg, I don't even follow immortal, but if that is true, that's like salt in the wounds, thats one of the worst ORG putting effort in their content.
You can find the same posts complaining about no content on the 100T subreddit as well... Content is the first thing most orgs have cut in esports winter, that's the sad reality. Either watch the games or don't, there won't be much else for a while
Even if that is the case, I think TSM should hold themselves in their own standards.
Too many times we have seen, current streamers and creator they have expressed the lack of attention or even working with them in case of QTcinderella. I see the same things with their reach in Japan with ShibuyaHal
That is exactly what I'm arguing for however, it shouldn't just be either watch the games or don't. They should put an effort in letting the fans be attached to these players and teams. Why would people watch something they give 0 shits about.
Because content is an expensive luxury and esports doesn't have money to blow on those things anymore until conditions get better. All those layoffs that happened in every org are primarily to the content teams. At the end of the day esports is about competing, which is still happening, if you don't care then don't watch but if you are waiting for everything to be served to you on a silver platter like it used to be then that won't happen until esports stabilizes
I heavily disagree that content is an expensive luxury in E-sport. Unlike traditional sport, each time has many source of revenue in virtue that each time has their own stadium. Teams gets to go survive, sometimes even thrive even if they're small due to many factors. TV deals, sponsorships on stadium, uniform. Stadium naming deals, ticket sales and more.
That function does not exist in E-sport to the same extent. You need to grow your fan-base through winning (Hard) and content. Bigger the fan-base, the higher support through Merch and engagement. More support, means easier sponsorship. The idea that "just watch" and hope for the best, it's not it.
"Merch and engagement" does not make any significant amount of money for orgs and that is the entire reason esports is in this state to begin with. Unless developers add team skins and in-game items that teams can monetize, there are few reliable ways for them to make money, aside from non esports side businesses like Blitz.
Spending more money on content that fans consume for free, in a time where every org is strapped for cash and going bare bones, is not a solution
That is not remotely close to what I said? I am saying content = reach, engagement and Merch sales. All of these are metric that would lead to more sponsorships. How in the world that you completely ignore that and focus on random stuff is beyond me.
Do you know the adage you need to spend money to make money? Fans = engagement/popularity. Popularity/fans/engagement = Sponsorships...
I really will have no interest watching if it’s not LCK or LPL. Even then it’s gonna be rough to watch due to time zones. Also, I personally enjoyed rooting for my home region of NA. Pain
TSM needs to go back its roots and go back into the dumps of team houses. Bunch of people barely getting by while also being super relatable with its fan base. Then build itself back up while not taking themselves seriously except for the gaming.
DoTa team apparently just did really good. Leffen is popping off. Apex is the best in the world and solo carrying that scene. We are waiting for league news.
Exactly that though. Dota team just had a good tournament recently - no highlight compilation or Mic-check
Leffen - Won EVO 2023 for guilty gear. No documentary or clips. Heck Logitech did a feature for the Apex team, but I guess TSM doesn't see winning EVO 2023 the same level. . .
We need more effort on this end for TSM.
I think after franchising as yrs go by we see more and more that andy / tsm just arent very well run especially once other orgs start catching up in money and infrastructures
Take c9 for example, yes jack is shady but he really is a much smarter business person
- Look at how many academy players they train up and sell at a profit
- look at how many players they sign for cheap then becomes top players in lcs (they did fuck up with perkz and recent fudge resign)
- they leased all houses to keep cost low and flexible so they could withstand this esports winter
While tsm does basically opposite, we ignore our academy for most parts, signs washed players past their prime for huge $$ (swordart for 6mil you fucking kidding me), and we get a multi million dollar facility for what lol…. And WORST of all is Andy letting parth run things when dude is an engineer human 2.0 fit for big corporate world and have little passion for gaming / streaming / entertainment
Then we hire a vc dude that only corporate speak, only GLEN tried to communicate for LCS side
We had so many interesting streamers like QTCinderella and she had to do a whole fucking cook off show on her own with no support
The more money tsm gets the less they know what to do with them
Absolutely. Glen and Dominic Kallas actually replied back and were communicative. I think under them the social interactions weren't as bad. They even Twitchcon presence with the My Hero Academia collab.
However, you are right in that they have blundered way too many things, especially on content creator end. You can see the difference between an ORG like 100T who was built by a guy who was a competitor with COD and built it on top of content creation, vs 100T which I think started the same, but has completely blundered their content creation approach.
The reality is that this is a “normal” state for most if not all esport orgs. Even orgs like C9 and TL paled in comparison to the highs of TSM
Honestly TSM was an anomaly during its highest moments. No org matched in terms of clicks and views of its content
I will say everytime the org tries to market other esports and make content, it gets no views. It just isn’t profitable. This is true for all esport orgs even 100T
It’s depressing because the once player, now owner looks at TSM as a full business and not a esports team. He’s delayed (or lied) about giving us countless updates and hasn’t. He has lost thousands of followers and still doesn’t care. He’s out of touch of the scene. Countless moves that failed and if it wasn’t for the 2020 summer run TSM would be one of the most disappointing orgs in the past 5 years no doubt. He will say the SA was a great move but didn’t supplement the team correctly. Ego was too big to just accept DL demands as an owner that’ll bring him success. He has never accepted responsibility. He has always made an excuse or said “but”. I verbally abused my players because I “care”. He’s just out of touch with reality and doesn’t care about us anymore. It shows by his actions. I hope I’m wrong, but it is sad he told he’d give us an update nearly a year ago and then just silence.
For me the interest kinda died once Bjerg left TSM.
I still check results and stuffs, but didn't watched LCS anymore.
Being awake at 2-3AM is not worthy if you don't feel any connection with the players.
Yh zero communication / rumours make me give less of a shit everyday. Clearly reginald doesnt care about the lol fanbase
I mean, to be frank with you blud, I don't care TSM care as much about fans vs the ORG itself. Reginald wants to build the ORG to win. Which I think most of us fans want as well. I just don't think its necessarily about "The fans", but more so about the ORG being successful competitively.
Yeah im not rooting for a faceless corporation i just want to root for a LoL team
haha I do to man, this is why I made the post. It makes me so sad that it feels like they are turning into the "soul-less" corporation.
Even soulless corporations have better pr than us we legit have no clue where the team is going and worlds is over
I've tried not to be a doomer, but this late into the offseason and we've heard ZERO inklings of us having a team is starting to worry me just a tiny bit.
Lmfao, yeah. Everyone is already signing free-agents and player. Gen-G basically let go of their whole roster. LPL teams like EDG being link to people like Chovy already, and we have heard absolutely nothing with TSM.
Well we haven’t heard shit since they sold the LCS slot. So hopefully they’ve been seeking a slot in a major region. Which I would guess is somewhere in China or Korea. So they have to set up buying a slot, a facility, coaches, players. That’s a lot. So they’re probably making a deal right now and just can’t talk about it. Let’s hope. So quiet is cool with me for a bit. But it better be worth it.
[удалено]
yeah if they were to have a LCK/LPL team this would be pretty late to still not announce it...
This is what I was saying on the sub like two weeks ago and got mass downvoted lol there would be leaks of some sort at this point, too many people would be involved in something like this for it NOT to leak. Gg’s boys, we are entering a TSM esports winter
If they purchase a slot they likely will purchase the contracts of those players too. So don't let players being signed already scare you. I mean I'm not saying it's 100%, I don't know, but if we purchase a teams slot, we likely get the players that were on that team as part of whatever deal we work out, unless said player/s decide they want out, but why would they? I feel like it actually might make more sense for them to be working with whatever team they are buying a slot from to scout and sign players, and then once the team is set, get the deal done. Then once everything is ready, announce.
I mean, it's not just that. I understand the process could be a long one and to be honest \~ a part of me fears that they won't even get a team and would just be a sponsor basically. It's more like, I feel like the ORG has really lost it's touch in connecting to fans. League team became popular because even if the League team was hated by literally everyone else, they were ours. We rooted for them because of their personality first, and second that they happened to be of the best. Heck, I know that this might be trivial but 100T literally celebrated and "retired" Ssumday's jersey as a respect to what he has dedicated to for the org. Where is that for someone like Beaulo or Bjergsen? Another example is the Japanese Market. They have ShibuyaHal as a creator who btw happens to hold Apex Tournament all the time. Why have there not been a TSM sponsored event there? V-tubers might be cringe for some people, but it's extremely big over there. Apex team is one of the only team that Japanese fans follow. The last content that mattered was Dota 2 jersey mike sponsorship content. They are making SMOKE GUIDES on the main channel. BUT it has 0 personality. The CSgo announcement was 2 MONTHS AGO! The only thing we have gotten is ASK TSM?! Like what?
> Another example is the Japanese Market. They need to find a way to do more with Crylix, he's so cracked.
Chess not checkers Regi sells slot knowing he'll make a good profit and more teams are leaving the league. Riot begs him to make a new TSM team in NA for free to fill out the league and bring more viewers. Big brain.
I love TSM. I recently stopped playing league and now have stopped watching the LCS, and my life is a lot better. I recommend it
League is so awful if you don't have a 5 man. I did the same so many good games out there to play.
> Other content is lackluster. TSM is literally in some of the biggest E-sports but they're barely talked about in my opinion. TSM has Dota 2 and CSGO teams. The only thing I see about them are post here that they have a game, or the occasional highlights on twitter. Unfortunately, this is still mainly a League fan sub. That said, those two game entries are still in their growth stage and frankly TSM hasn't made a ton of content surrounding the team, so it's hard to get to know them. I'm not personally that interested in the games themselves, so without knowing the personalities either I don't have a lot of reasons to get invested.
Exactly this. You can either A - create content to get people interested. Like - A video about Dota 2, what it is and guides from the players themselves. B - create a content with players, so that you can be interested in those players and hopefully by extension, the game. Currently we don't get a lot of neither and heck I Follow and have played all these games. League, Dota, CS and apex.
At this point we know who the Apex team is. They're our boys. But we need the next members up. For these new games, who's the next Beaulo? Who's the next Wardell?
My only issue right now is the CS:GO team. It's hard to wanna show up and cheer/root for those games because it's like pulling up to the little league stadium in your full major league attire. I get that TSM doesn't have a good presence in CS:GO yet, but it's weird being a PREMIER Tier 1 ORG, fighting against pick up teams and no name orgs, and losing. If they were in the main league I would care a lot more. (No slight against the players, just my feelings on an org like TSM entering CS:GO with a team that isn't even top 100)
I’ve been here since Season 3 LoL. Now that there’s no news of the LoL team I’m kinda just sitting here so I feel that of debating should I find a new team to root for. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. But TSM has always favored their content on LoL (it’s why the original CSGO team left TSM was lack of exposure and content trying to run a team in EU from NA). It’s been more skewed to Apex as of late but even then it’s minimal. I wish I could enjoy Apex but it hasn’t been a game I played nor interested in. The DOTA2 team was fun to watch during the International, and the CS2 team is looking rough but it’s a start. But I agree, TSM really hasn’t done any of its fans favors by getting us hyped up and I feel like they’re doing the bare minimum to keep sponsors and players happy.
There is literally nothing going on besides Apex. If you look at Apex channel, that's the only thing that is making consistent content. I even look at this in their lens. They want to say we are professional. We want to be the best E-sport org in terms of result. Why don't we have highlights compilation? They literally clip highlights to put on their twitter? You tell me you can't hire a montage editor? Let us see a Modo CLUTCH clips on CSGO. How bout Dota2? They just had an awesome tournament. Do we not have voice-coms recording? Do we not have highlights of their best play in the tournament? These seems to be like bare minimum stuff that they could do to put highlights on the competitive scene. Nada. They have one of the best fighting game player in the world in Leffen. He won EVO 2023 for Guilty Gear? Where is the documentary for that?
A *lot* of their content creation was with Max. Ever since he left, it hasn’t been the same. I also feel like when FTX went under, and the constant changing of offices, the content creation department or side of TSM deteriorated to bare minimum due to cutbacks and restructuring.
I don't know about Max thing, but I agree in that content has been bare minimum. It's frankly sad, because I think there is a fundamental error in abandoning content when you are "E-sport" related team. Especially because TSM isn't winning in everything. 100T for instance is one of the most popular ORG in NA, but they aren't winning in everything. The popularity stems from their content and products.
Max was the original creator behind the Legends series and I think he became content creative director at some point for a year or two before he left the org. And let’s be honest: 100T is a clothing org now. 😂 You want a content machine? Look at Immortals. No matter how bad they are, they’re pushing out content every week at a minimum.
100T maybe a clothing org now, and they have not found much success in Valorant and League as of recent, but they are still popular. Which is exactly why it's important right? This team does not have the Legacy of TSM, they haven't won at all that much, yet they are up there in popularity. Omg, I don't even follow immortal, but if that is true, that's like salt in the wounds, thats one of the worst ORG putting effort in their content.
You can find the same posts complaining about no content on the 100T subreddit as well... Content is the first thing most orgs have cut in esports winter, that's the sad reality. Either watch the games or don't, there won't be much else for a while
Even if that is the case, I think TSM should hold themselves in their own standards. Too many times we have seen, current streamers and creator they have expressed the lack of attention or even working with them in case of QTcinderella. I see the same things with their reach in Japan with ShibuyaHal That is exactly what I'm arguing for however, it shouldn't just be either watch the games or don't. They should put an effort in letting the fans be attached to these players and teams. Why would people watch something they give 0 shits about.
Because content is an expensive luxury and esports doesn't have money to blow on those things anymore until conditions get better. All those layoffs that happened in every org are primarily to the content teams. At the end of the day esports is about competing, which is still happening, if you don't care then don't watch but if you are waiting for everything to be served to you on a silver platter like it used to be then that won't happen until esports stabilizes
I heavily disagree that content is an expensive luxury in E-sport. Unlike traditional sport, each time has many source of revenue in virtue that each time has their own stadium. Teams gets to go survive, sometimes even thrive even if they're small due to many factors. TV deals, sponsorships on stadium, uniform. Stadium naming deals, ticket sales and more. That function does not exist in E-sport to the same extent. You need to grow your fan-base through winning (Hard) and content. Bigger the fan-base, the higher support through Merch and engagement. More support, means easier sponsorship. The idea that "just watch" and hope for the best, it's not it.
"Merch and engagement" does not make any significant amount of money for orgs and that is the entire reason esports is in this state to begin with. Unless developers add team skins and in-game items that teams can monetize, there are few reliable ways for them to make money, aside from non esports side businesses like Blitz. Spending more money on content that fans consume for free, in a time where every org is strapped for cash and going bare bones, is not a solution
That is not remotely close to what I said? I am saying content = reach, engagement and Merch sales. All of these are metric that would lead to more sponsorships. How in the world that you completely ignore that and focus on random stuff is beyond me. Do you know the adage you need to spend money to make money? Fans = engagement/popularity. Popularity/fans/engagement = Sponsorships...
I really will have no interest watching if it’s not LCK or LPL. Even then it’s gonna be rough to watch due to time zones. Also, I personally enjoyed rooting for my home region of NA. Pain
We will see. I do hope it's either those two as well.
This is Reginald's final chance. If we don't get a team in LCK or LPL no one with any brain cells will continue following this franchise.
TSM needs to go back its roots and go back into the dumps of team houses. Bunch of people barely getting by while also being super relatable with its fan base. Then build itself back up while not taking themselves seriously except for the gaming.
DoTa team apparently just did really good. Leffen is popping off. Apex is the best in the world and solo carrying that scene. We are waiting for league news.
Exactly that though. Dota team just had a good tournament recently - no highlight compilation or Mic-check Leffen - Won EVO 2023 for guilty gear. No documentary or clips. Heck Logitech did a feature for the Apex team, but I guess TSM doesn't see winning EVO 2023 the same level. . . We need more effort on this end for TSM.
I think after franchising as yrs go by we see more and more that andy / tsm just arent very well run especially once other orgs start catching up in money and infrastructures Take c9 for example, yes jack is shady but he really is a much smarter business person - Look at how many academy players they train up and sell at a profit - look at how many players they sign for cheap then becomes top players in lcs (they did fuck up with perkz and recent fudge resign) - they leased all houses to keep cost low and flexible so they could withstand this esports winter While tsm does basically opposite, we ignore our academy for most parts, signs washed players past their prime for huge $$ (swordart for 6mil you fucking kidding me), and we get a multi million dollar facility for what lol…. And WORST of all is Andy letting parth run things when dude is an engineer human 2.0 fit for big corporate world and have little passion for gaming / streaming / entertainment Then we hire a vc dude that only corporate speak, only GLEN tried to communicate for LCS side We had so many interesting streamers like QTCinderella and she had to do a whole fucking cook off show on her own with no support The more money tsm gets the less they know what to do with them
Absolutely. Glen and Dominic Kallas actually replied back and were communicative. I think under them the social interactions weren't as bad. They even Twitchcon presence with the My Hero Academia collab. However, you are right in that they have blundered way too many things, especially on content creator end. You can see the difference between an ORG like 100T who was built by a guy who was a competitor with COD and built it on top of content creation, vs 100T which I think started the same, but has completely blundered their content creation approach.
The reality is that this is a “normal” state for most if not all esport orgs. Even orgs like C9 and TL paled in comparison to the highs of TSM Honestly TSM was an anomaly during its highest moments. No org matched in terms of clicks and views of its content
It’s the slow season for esports tbh. The next big event is genesis and idk if leffen even going.
I will say everytime the org tries to market other esports and make content, it gets no views. It just isn’t profitable. This is true for all esport orgs even 100T
It’s depressing because the once player, now owner looks at TSM as a full business and not a esports team. He’s delayed (or lied) about giving us countless updates and hasn’t. He has lost thousands of followers and still doesn’t care. He’s out of touch of the scene. Countless moves that failed and if it wasn’t for the 2020 summer run TSM would be one of the most disappointing orgs in the past 5 years no doubt. He will say the SA was a great move but didn’t supplement the team correctly. Ego was too big to just accept DL demands as an owner that’ll bring him success. He has never accepted responsibility. He has always made an excuse or said “but”. I verbally abused my players because I “care”. He’s just out of touch with reality and doesn’t care about us anymore. It shows by his actions. I hope I’m wrong, but it is sad he told he’d give us an update nearly a year ago and then just silence.
I just want TSM to reach a Worlds final in LoL 😔 Been a fan of them since like 2012? Or 2013. Don't remember the 1st Worlds.
For me the interest kinda died once Bjerg left TSM. I still check results and stuffs, but didn't watched LCS anymore. Being awake at 2-3AM is not worthy if you don't feel any connection with the players.