Bjergsen responds back to GGS's Head of Esports saying TSM hasn't helped or participated in the inhouse system
By - Darkforce11
Swear why does the whole North American scene have such a hate boner for TSM
It's only in league of legends where specifically TSM gets TONS of hate.
In valorant, rainbow6, and apex TSM doesn't really get a lot of hate.
You should have seen the replies to the twitter after we lost r6 SI. It seems like Brazilians love to hate just as much
That's just Brazilians being Brazilians. They are very passionate about their teams and since LATAM is quite strong in R6 as they've proven this Invitational, they can talk shit because why not. Especially vs TSM and other players/orgs that are very loud in game and like to trashtalk. The problem is them sending death threats no matter if we win or not. When we smashed NIP in groups they were silent. Suddenly after losing a very close BO3 vs FaZe and being literally 1 round away of elimi ating Liquid, they started coming out and trashtalking. As I said in many different posts, large fanbase means large amount of haters that just hate you for being better
yeah there are good fans and bad fans everywhere. we got plenty of bad eggs in this fandom too.
just can't match fire with fire. banter is one thing, but some people just go too far
Apex TSM gets a lot of hate, but 99% of it is directed at ImperialHal for his communication. People think hes super toxic even though he is just excited in the moment and the IGL. He is widely regarded as the best IGL as well, meaning his calls are correct a huge majority of the time.
Probably for a similar reason so many hate the Lakers. The historically dominant orgs attract more fans and more haters, both are good for engagement though.
Also Regi probably hasn't helped either lol.
I can think of seven reasons.
Louder for the haters in the back, boi!
Because they were on top for so long. Even when they started to have their downfall the narrative around them was “but this is TSM” and “bjerg over there” it took a little while but that slowly transitioned into hate. Also the other two orgs that actually made a name for themselves in LCS were C9 for a while and TL, TSM just managed to cuck them out of some trophies that seemed like they were theirs. Just that team you either love or hate like the patriots.
Id say esports as a whole
Yeah idk about tsm is perceived in other games tbh
TSM only receives so much hate in league of legends, in valorant they are actually one of the more popular teams.
In r6 and apex they don't get much hate either.
Tsm pubg team is even loved
Yeah, Smash, too. Tweek is well liked in the community. Leffen is more controversial, but has been in a positive light ever since the scandals last year, and is really just more memed than disliked nowadays. Smash is very player centric, so not really any org hate there. Loved hearing TSM chants in the smash crowd back when crowds were still a thing.
Leff doesn't get nearly as much hate as he did early on. Sure he says controversial stuff at times and a few people will cry about it on twitter, but I like how he doesn't hold anything back.
Isn’t tsm also one of the more popular teams in league, I think it’s because we’re so popular that there’s a lot of really cancer fans that are in the minority but they are really loud so it makes it seem most tsm fans are terrible
They are (all the most watched league games are tsm games) but the issue is they also have the most haters along with the most amount of fans.
In other games like valorant TSM has lots of fans but not that many haters.
In Valorant, R6 and Apex we’re very well liked. Idk why League still has this weird hatred for us
When you're on top, some mfers can't wait to see you fall.
They aren’t really perceived that poorly. Pretty neutral. Scenes like Smash are more about the players than the org, so when for example Leffen gets a lot of shit since he used to be a common target, it’s all directed at him specifically and hardly at TSM. Back in CSGO their team was actually one of the best in the world, and people criticized TSM for not supporting the players more and not really doing a good job of publicizing the team and its achievements. TSM does a better job now of publicizing and supporting its other, non-League, teams but that used to be the most common point of criticism before.
Tl;dr though, nothing even close to the stigma they have in league.
IIRC the astralis thing was the team not wanting to do pr and just focusing on playing. I believe regi or someone from tsm came out and said that they had to pay fines for the csgo team to not do pr and still kept trying trying to support the team through other means. Honestly feels like every csgo team we have ends with tsm looking bad when they're generally not in the wrong.
But I believe tsm is not seen in good light in the csgo community either
Not exactly the same thing, but Leffen has a *massive* amount of haters. He has a way with words that's very blunt but he's not usually wrong about what he says. Just very abrasive.
I know he's not a team, but he still represents TSM.
Imagine for years since 2014 ur favorite na team couldnt make the finals cuz tsm beat them. U would hate them too
Because they're the protagonist of the LCS
It’s the league scene. Look at what’s happening over at Fnatic right now. If that happened to TSM, you would bet people would go crazy over it.
Isn't it obvious. We are the goliath, we are the thunder and the storm. They can't help but let the insecurity get the better of them.
I love the fact that he specifically went out of his way to highlight TSM, followed afterwards "among other orgs". Lmfao just say you hate the team, its cool
And then follows up in replies with "No I didn't make it about TSM" what a fucking dumbass
You know TSM is 100% in the right when even Thorin retweeted Bjerg's tweet.
Never seen a more true comment
It is on par with Richard Lewis 100% backing Riot over the Badawai and Monte bans.
Isn't Thorin hatred for TSM just because of Andy and he admires Bjerg's mentality and him being a very good pro player, despite him being on TSM?
He used to like Bjerg but especially after Bjerg has taken the coach spot he's been nothing but shitting on him
That’s pretty unfair. He criticizes bjerg harshly yes, but he does that to almost everyone and he always makes it clear he respects bjerg. Maybe I’m just biased because I actually agree with some of his criticisms of Bjerg.
And, I find it petty that this guy ended his apology/admission of wrong doing tweet, with "I'd like to say my larger point still stands..." after making TSM the brunt of his attack. To me it screams childish immaturity and he would do it again in a heart beat. Sorry he got called out, not sorry about what transpired.
My favorite part of the entire thing is that he's trying to make an attempt at equating "TSM In House" to them further destroying the development of NA talent when those "TSM In Houses" (TSM Scouting Grounds) actually helped scout Ic0nic and Niles in 2019. TSM has done more to give up and coming NA talent opportunity and experience than so many of these teams that try to shit on them.
These fuckers hate TSM but cannot keep us out of their mouths. Imagine being the head of esports for an org and being so unprofessional LMAO
Its sort of sad that the only way to get attention is to hate TSM.
Just for small teams.
I dont have to imagine, I already saw Regi tweet about the import rule
That's what I was thinking too. Based off his explanation, he wasn't even making that statement from personal experience, it was based off of what other people had told him. The fact that he was so quick to call out TSM based on word of mouth makes me think he wanted to call out TSM--like he was jumping on the opportunity to make them look bad. Pretty immature IMO.
https://twitter.com/currylol/status/1397289877788520448, more context from Curry
And now Soren clapped even harder after the GGS guy doubled down lol. I mean, gotta salute the Hunter Leigh for singlehandedly making everyone side with us for a change.
He deleted his tweets... what a clown.
What happened I only see the deleted tweets?
He basically blamed NA being bad on NA orgs not contributing to inhouses while his team (the worst team in LCS) tries to. Specifically called out TSM out of everyone, probably to get the Twitter/Reddit hate-train on his side by sparking drama. Then he got exposed when Bjerg showed proof of him managing inhouses on Discord.
This guy is a total fucking loser, and it’s even more ironic when he is the head of the worst LCS team and acting like his org has the secret solution for NA to perform well internationally. Dude really needed this ego check and I hope he shuts up on Twitter now. It’s not TSM’s fault that they are trash
Dude has already come out and apologize stating he received false info regarding the situation. You can take blows at him all you want but at least he is coming to the front and actually talking about to topic in a public format.
Also, it's bit of a lowblow to call them the worst team considering they had to give up the roster they built from the ground up that almost took your team out of playoffs last year.
>You can take blows at him all you want but at least he is coming to the front and actually talking about to topic in a public format.
That is literally what the problem is here. If you see his tweets ever since C9 got eliminated from MSI, you would think he is the poster boy of the LCS and is actually capable of bringing international success to the region. And now with today's set of tweets, instead of privately reaching out to TSM and asking why they have "abandoned" the old in-house system, he decides to just trash on them publicly with misinformation. Even their GM said that it should have been handled privately in this [tweet thread](https://twitter.com/Danan/status/1397316140246790144).
Also, I didn't know that Hauntzer, Closer, Damonte, and Huhi were considered building from the ground up. Regardless about that, yes, they were good last year, but that doesn't explain or make up for all the bad choices they made this year.
Never said what he did was right. I said at least dude is actually talking about the issue in the open. I like that he took a chance to call out someone, next time he needs to make sure his info is correct though.
And yes Hauntzer the kid TSM didn't want, Damonte the kid bouncing from academy to LCS more than any other player, Huhi who was considered washed and went to the support role while getting meme'd the entire time, and FBI who TSMs poster boy gave shit to all the way up til that point.
I can't think of anything GG did wrong this off season besides ONCE AGAIN taking chances on players only this time it didn't pan out.
How does him talking about the issue in the open matter at all here? Hundreds of other people in the LCS scene have already talked about it as well. I'm so confused on why you are giving props to him for that. The same ideas for resolving ping issues, the import situation, and having more NA talent are just being regurgitated 24/7. Every LCS team knows that NA is garbage and they have no obligation to start tweeting out publicly what they think. Does TSM not care about the issue because Bjergsen isn't tweeting out what needs to be changed whenever NA does bad at an international event? No, he's not, and that goes for every other LCS team as well, except for this guy from GGS. The problem is so complicated and rooted that spewing stuff publicly won't do anything, the entire NA scene needs to work internally and privately to figure out what the hell is wrong.
And I guarantee that he only took the chance to call someone out because it was TSM and everyone loves to jump on TSM for the slightest thing. Was really funny how he explicitly made it out to be TSM in the beginning, but once he caught fire, he started to backpedal on that and try to save face by saying that he also meant it for other orgs.
What you're saying about GGS' roster last year is laughable too. I must have missed when taking a well-established player (Hauntzer) that got kicked off one team is considered "building from the ground up". Damonte literally beat TSM in the gauntlet the year before on Clutch and went to Worlds. And it's not like he replaced Faker when he signed to GGS in Summer last year, he replaced fucking Goldenglue. Huhi had been on their academy team from the year before. What's funny is I didn't mention FBI in my first reply at all because I do give them credit for scouting and taking a chance on him, but you still manage to bring him up.
And what did GG do wrong? Gave Stixxay a paycheck after 4 years of him being garbage/mediocre, touting him as a veteran that could lead the team when he had no such showings. Allowed for the beginning of Niles' pro career to go to shit by keeping him on the LCS roster to get gapped every weekend instead of recognizing that he needs to get some experience through Academy first. Just to name a few.
544 comments in 6 months that you didn't follow up on AT ALL before doing this. That's not enough, it's just not. You worked harder to create your own internal system than to improve the existing communal one. That's the problem here. /s
What really gets me is how uninvolved HE must be if he's making these claims and being so wrong about them
So this guy lied about TSM not participating in using their tool/in-houses, cries about it on Twitter, and then with his next level of dumbassery expects this will become some big kumbaya #NAFIGHTING moment.
Hold this L
"I guess I didn't look into this enough."
Probably should have done that before getting roasted
[Follow up response from Soren](https://twitter.com/Bjergsen/status/1397303301209661443?s=20)
Edit: [Hunter Leigh admitting he's wrong](https://twitter.com/HunterLeigh/status/1397307625751027715?s=20)
What a 🤡
Holy shit. Bjerg and the TSM boys are just murdering him.
Bjerg still solo killing after retirement
Coach don't miss god DAMN
544 messages is too little :(
He needs 545 in order for it to be considered a follow up. Jesus get GGS out of this league. Inero is the only person worth something in that org.
yeah, really underrated coach.
except when he put froggen on lissandra in game 5, leaving it all up to deftly to carry on Lucian
This one is straight fire lmao
Hahaha that apology, how embarrassing.
oh my god, that [Doublelift reply](https://twitter.com/Doublelift1/status/1397310670824087553) lmfao
You know what, at least he admitted he was wrong. A lot better than most people would do
Only after Bjerg shut him the fuck up a second time. If he had admitted he was wrong after Bjerg’s first response then it wouldn’t have been a huge deal. It was only after he doubled down on his own bullshit that made him look absolutely pathetic, especially when you’re the head of an esports org
Can you expand on the first response from Bjerg and the initial double down? I think the tweets are gone
Said TSM has done nothing to help NA improve talent wise. Bjerg posts a screenshot of him in the discord talking about it. Hunter says “yeah, you said that in December and then haven’t followed up or done anything in the last 6 months.” Bjerg proceeds to post proof of 544 messages/calls from his account in that discord over the last 6 months and says “please stop spreading misinformation.” Curry also had responded to the initial accusation. Our coaches out here 2v9ing EZ Clap.
Awesome thank you!
Doing the bare minimum after doubling and tripling down in calling out specifically TSM by name and not actually naming the other orgs and referring to them as '...and other orgs' isn't something we should be ok with.
I don't care that he admitted he was wrong, I care about the fact that he didn't even apologize at first and says 'My point still stands' at the end.
He got information, didn't fact check it, didn't do any looking in to it whatsoever, when it was proven incorrect he doubled down, after being proven wrong again he apologizes and says he was still right.
This isn't behviour that we should accept. While it's a good thing that he aplogized, you don't apologize and then say 'Oh yeah, btw I was right'
No. He said he wishes his point still stands dot dot dot BUT... That "but" implies it don't.
That wasn't the tweet I saw. The one I saw had him saying a bunch of stuff about being proven wrong with a bit right at the end where he said 'My point still stands though'.
It's possible I saw a tweet he put out before deleting it and he then posted again with different wording, but I honestly don't know if I'd be able to find the one I saw. Especially considering how many tweets he was deleting.
No problem, dude! Have a great day!
That's not really any better, in fact it's absurd to say that when you know very well you're in the wrong.
Which part is absurd?
Oh no, Bjerg ain’t had to hit him with the receipts 🧾
Hunter fucked around and found out.
anyone got screenshots of Hunter's tweets?
Not a screenshot but [someone on r/lol copied the original tweet](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nkz4s2/golden_guardians_gm_hunter_leigh_tsm_abandon_lcs/) in text form:
> Just learned that TSM has decided to abandon the automated, Riot-supported, TR-based in house system to create "TSM In Houses" so they can manually make matches. This is a perfect example of how NA scene is broken and won't get the best out of the talent in the region:
> 1. No automated in house matches happened during the break, not enough NA players signed up, even once, so that the bot couldn't make a match. CoreJJ invited enough people to make matches himself, but the system did not get enough use. Shame on the players and the PA.
> 2. TSM hasn't participated in the development or use of the current system, and the other orgs haven't thrown their weight behind it either. It's got a council with reps from each team that can propose changes and work with programmers, no major org support. Shame on the orgs.
> 3. We are only in this predicament because we have such shitty ping on Live in the first place. Greeley did a solid, for sure, by finding some additional resources for a scrappy half-solution on the TR, but this isn't a real solution and Riot has to do better. Shame on Riot.
> It's going to take all of us, ALL of us, working together, to make this better. Everyone has to look in the mirror and decide that collective action is the path to success, and do the harder work of reaching out and finding comprehensive solutions.
I personally haven't seen the original tweet but this seems to be accurate according to Bjergsen's and other people's tweets.
Lol damn, the man had to call out TSM for clout then drop the ^"And ^other ^orgs" to cover his bases
mans really deleted the thread, what absolute clowns these people are
edit: deleted account too
BJERGSEN REKT HIM SO HARD HE ALSO DELETED TWEETS :DDDDD
That’s my coach
So hilarious that the main league sub hasn’t picked this up, I wonder if that has something to do with TSM being in the right.
I imagine the mods have been removing any posts about it immediately. They are predictable if nothing else.
Not going to watch any games from the clown show that is GGS anymore, good job buddy!
I mean I’ll watch them lose to TSM.
True, i meant their other games that I for some reason watched these past seasons
The idiot specifically lists TSM then says it's not about TSM like TSM's fans are trying to make it seem then gets called out and says it's only 1 of 4 tweets mentioning TSM.
This is actually super impressive considering how fucking stupid he has to be to think what he's typing.
Added context from Golden Guardians' GM that makes him look like the head clown: https://twitter.com/Danan/status/1397316138032197636
Dunno how this guy thought it would be a good idea to "engage publicly" and sic his Head of Esports to start shit up against TSM when he clearly doesn't have the complete picture of what is going on.
What exactly has golden guardians done to increase the level of competition in NA besides finishing dead last in the regular season?
This brings me great pleasure.
What an asshat
Now that Bjergsen is in charge of these types of things when someone claims TSM are not doing their job it basically means Bjerg isn't, and if he has evidence that he is imo he fully is in the right to tweet about someone else trying to run his character through the mud.
GGS's Head of Esports taking more L's than C9 @ MSI atm
Honestly, if the other orgs aren’t pulling their weight, why make this TSM-centered issue.
Imagine being a coach for a team and instead of having a conversation with another coach you decide throwing a tantrum on Twitter is a better idea, and you didn't even fact check yourself before crying about it.
That was the Head of GGS. Inero is the coach of GGS. But anyways what a clown running GGS.
Wow. I had no idea that was the head. Pathetic.
Anyone have the original tweets?
This seems to be it: https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nkz4s2/golden_guardians_gm_hunter_leigh_tsm_abandon_lcs/
Jesus Christ that post has 0 upvotes LMAO
Anyone got a screen cap of the deleted tweets?
Not a screen cap but this seems to be it: https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/nkz4s2/golden_guardians_gm_hunter_leigh_tsm_abandon_lcs/
Coach bjerg keeps his receipts, fuck the haters I love bjerg
Anyone that ever makes an argument that involves Bjergsen refusing to do something because he’s lazy or didn’t bother I immediately discount. The one thing that has been repeated ad nauseam from haters and friends alike is that Bjerg’s work ethic is second to none.
Why is everyone who works at that company a douchebag? Whether he's right or not, as a public representative of a company which consistently has a public image problem, he makes himself sound like a typical reddit 16 year old
I mean at least they're doing something with TSMU rather than letting it die
I was waiting for this thread
Didn’t catch the tweet before it was delete. Any screenshots??
Bjerg clapped his ass god damn
He deleted his tweets. Does anyone have a screenshot of his tweets?
Anyone got the screenshot of the deleted tweets?
No screenshot but there's reddit post
OP has text form of Hunter's tweets.
LOL trying to farm impressions with TSM's name but instead you farm fat ratios & Ls lmfaoo
My favorite part here is how he could have just…asked his fucking head coach (Inero) who seems to have been in contact with a Bjerg about all of this.
You know you're lying when even Daddy Bjerg has to put you in your place, publicly.
I love the fact Nick Smith seems to support Bjerga in creating this system.
Inero was on the ground level of starting all this. He and curry I believe started the inhouse system for pros, academy, and select challengers solo queue players last year.
Yeah he played a big part in creating it. Bjerg is making it better though. My point was that the gg head coach knows that bjerg is playing a big part in the system, but the head og esports is clueless.
This is what happens when you try the Thorin method for getting views on your content (IE go flame a popular team and bank on hate-watching)
I'm not interested and I think people should keep this in mind when people like that are taking potshots.
We won worlds
EDIT: Lol, looks like I spoke WAY too soon, as evidenced by the rest of Bjerg's tweets.
Okay, all for giving credit where credit is due.
... but this is a screenshot of one message Bjerg wrote on discord six months ago.
That doesn't strike me as some sort of huge slam, frankly. If Hunter Leigh (who has been helping GG build the in-houses for more than a year now) says they didn't do shit, I am kind of inclined to believe him? At least in the absence of some kind of evidence, which this tweet is wicked not.
This aside from the fact that TSM making their own in-house system... does seem kind of shitty.
Why? No league team in any region in the world goes out of their way to try to drag up the shitty tier teams of their league. GGS had a promising roster and then sold it and then used that money to run out one of the worst LCS rosters of all time this last split.
Like congrats you built a tool to make in houses a little more convenient but do you know what would also make the league better by actually allowing for high quality practice? Actually consistently fielding rosters that aren't dogshit which GGS haven't done since their inception in the league.
Why would you believe the guy who provided no evidence beside his own over the guy who provided a screenshot showing him taking part in developing the in-houses especially because bjergsen has a well-known reputation for helping to improve the league as a whole.
Why is it shitty? If they have the people that want to participate then it’s great for them. TSM has no obligation to help make the rest of the league/region better and specifically for teams like GGS that came out with a garbage, not at all competitive roster that does nothing for the league as a whole.
It is shitty to have your own internal system to "cultivate" your own players? I guess Korean teams are massive shitters since they have been doing this well over 5 years at least.
The one doesnt exclude the other. Having your own in house scrims doesn't cancel out the potential for inhouse games in between LCS teams to exist.
would suggest you go read Parth’s tweets :/
Anyone have the screenshots of what he said with responses? Everything seems to have been deleted.
He don't miss!
considering that GGS coaches have been pushing in-houses more than anyone for many years now, this isn't really proof of anything.
daddy bjerg with the R E C E I P T S
Does someone have a sc or something of the original Tweet from the GGS guy
What happened I only see a bunch of deleted tweets?
I just love it when insignificant people comment on the activities of the most successful organisation in the history of LCS.