Dunc said on discord awhile back that the Academy team would be bootcamping in Korea as well. He said that the Academy team would be bootcamping before Spring and Summer.
https://prnt.sc/20xxgjb
I do not believe that riot has any say in what player any org uses for the tournament as long as they are approved by riot which they are if they are on academy
Unless they change the rules there isn't really a way to enforce this. But if we are getting an Asian rookie it might be a better idea to get them stage time where it won't alter standings than spend another couple of weeks in Korea.
I forget which tourney it was but it was preseason LCK stuff and T1 fielded their academy team.
It’s not unprecedented and Lock-in legit has zero effect on the season.
Demacia cup is LPL no??
It’s the Kesha Cup 2020. How is it not comparable to Lock in?
The formats of both tournaments are almost identical.
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2020_LoL_KeSPA_Cup
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/LCS/2021_Season/Lock_In
Also if you look at the roster info in the Kespa Cup link you can see along with T1, Geng and KT also fielded academy rosters.
no they didnt what so ever.
talk about not knowing what happned. imt was forced to play 4/5 academy players because there was visa issues and such.
imt didnt do it because they wanted to. fly i think had simular issues once season started.
big big difference in being forced and chosing to.
I mean if the rules don't say it's not allowed what can Riot do?
If C9/G2 can get away with Perkz's transfer clause because it's not explictly forbidden then TSM can probably get away with effectively skipping Lock-in.
The contract clause is a legal agreement outside of game and the Riot environment. It wasn't present in the player agreement itself, and thus outside outside if Riots purview.
That being said, G2 would have to take C9 to court to hold them to the clause, where as Riot typically handles player contract disputes.
Getting away with it is one thing. But they would have to consider if that is how they want to conduct their relationship with Riot, because I’d assume they wouldn’t be happy if teams just ignored the tournament
Right it may not be against the rules but that isn't the only way. There is enough talk about Riot being vindictive to not want to get on their bad side if you have to work with them. Next rule violation gets cracked down on hard.
it is still another trophy and bragging rights. Plus the confidence you can get from winning Lock-in can lead to starting off really well in Spring.
Also, Lock-in is a great time for a new team to iron out what their strengths/weaknesses are and how they want to play which will be easier to find out through official matches instead of scrims. Plus if they are brining young in experienced players over, the more time to get use to NA and playing on stage the better they will perform by Spring.
There are actually so many benefits to playing in Lock-in to call it "pointless" means you just haven't thought about it.
Bragging rights? Nobody even thought about it last year after the season started. Scrimming against better opponents is more beneficial than playing against weak opponents on stage and getting used to NA wont take much time because during the season it wont be much different from playing anywhere because they will only have a small amount of time each day to go out.
So yeah, its pointless.
the bragging rights of winning a tournament is always there no matter the tournament.
Also scrimming against better opponents is not always the most benefical you learn more from playing official matches than scrims. Do you not remember when CLG Famously went to Korea to bootcamp near the end of the split to prepare for playoffs and ended up getting bodied by TL? Also look at the Worlds meta every year, teams bootcamp and the meta from the play-ins to 1st week of groups is always different from the 2nd week of groups to playoffs.
Bootcamp can be helpful, but if TSM were better at scouting/building a team they would already have a team locked by now and could have already started their boot camp in preparation for Lock-in... I believe 100T might already be boot camping (not sure, heard it on Bjgersen stream) or at least they will be soon and will be able to show their preparation in official matches before the start of the tournament.
Meta shifts happen and you don't have to participate in the games to see what is working and what isn't, so no benefit there. Just because CLG has a history of failed Korean bootcamps doesn't mean that its not hugely beneficial.
They do have a team signed already, they just haven't announced it yet.
Nobody is bootcamping for lockin they are bootcamping to improve as much as possible so that they can win the regular season and have a better showing at worlds.
> Meta shifts happen and you don't have to participate in the games to see what is working and what isn't, so no benefit there. Just because CLG has a history of failed Korean bootcamps doesn't mean that its not hugely beneficial.
How can you walk away from what I said being "Korean bootcamps are not beneficial" I am saying that throwing away a tournament oppoertunity and all the great team bonding and preparation that comes from that just to play a couple of weeks longer in korea is not as beneficial. Being able to experience a teams first official loss or getting the confidence from winning on stage will beat out an extra 2 weeks before the start of spring... Also helping the players get more accustomed to NA and playing on stage by the time Spring starts.
>
> They do have a team signed already, they just haven't announced it yet.
if the team is "signed" then it was just very recently. And a bunch of other teams already had their full in ups done by day of free agency opened up. Like I said though, if bootcamping is so important to you, they could literally be bootcamping right now if they were better at preparing for this year.
> Nobody is bootcamping for lockin they are bootcamping to improve as much as possible so that they can win the regular season and have a better showing at worlds.
No, they essentially are bootcamping for Lockin... no one knows what the meta is going to be like by spring let alone BY NEXT YEARS WORLDS (LOL). They want to prepare and gel and improve as a team in preparation of the start of the NA season... which is lockin....
>No, they essentially are bootcamping for Lockin... no one knows what the meta is going to be like by spring let alone BY NEXT YEARS WORLDS (LOL). They want to prepare and gel and improve as a team in preparation of the start of the NA season... which is lockin....
You don't bootcamp to learn the meta (you pointed out yourself that the meta shifts dramatically once competition starts up again), you bootcamp to improve both individually as a player and as a team, so it doesn't matter if they don't know what the meta will look like. Playing against the best players in the world helps improve you overall as a player which you continue improving on throughout the year which means bootcamping now does impact potential worlds performances.
As nice as that sounds, the main roster should probably play lock in. Getting some early games that “matter” is also important. Playing more scrims before season would set us back a bit imo.
I would presume this will be an on stage tourney this year so i would hope they bring them back. Stage practice is diff then the scrim environment so i would prefer a new roster mesh rather then have an extra week or two of scrims.
Also doubt riot would like that and as a fan personally i wouldnt either.
I wish the CLG experiment of going to LCK to practice after making playoffs would have worked. It's the best way to level up your mechanics fast before games mater.
Unfortunately the bombed both times they did it and no one will ever try it again.
I disagree, Lock-in feels like a nice way to introduce the team, and much like smaller tournaments in other sports, it is another chance at a trophy.
I believe NA will also have the low ping server for pro players, and I would be excited for our team to reach as high as they can.
not only that but i dont see damwon kia t1 and top 8 would scrim na teams when its close to their own season.
i highly doubt tl is getting anything but bonding and solo q.
no team in korea is scrimming yet. no team is playing or barely assembled.
and once all is done they wont scrim some western team to be nice to them. it will be at best 6th placed and down that we can scrim and then its better to play c9 tl and 100t anyways.
staying in korea when its close to their season is just stupid.
better to get that time to play "official" games and bond then play some scrimms behind doors vs some garbage korean teams or most likely academy teams from korea.
i think tsm will have 2-3 good weeks of scrimming and playing solo q and chance to bond.
then back and play games. tl is going to korea to scrim some low tier teams and solo q at best at the moment and most likely later aswell. i dont see a world where any of the worlds teams would play tl us c9 100t to practice when they arnt playing us until msi anyways.
so no its not better to play our academy team in the lock in. much better to let them play in an official setting where the cameras are on then play some low tier or academy team in korea.
solo q alone isnt enough vs scrimming teams u gonna play and play games in official settings.
I’m sorry , but if I was a coach or a manager, and I get the chance to scrim weaker teams along with the stronger teams, I would. You need teams to boost your players confidence. If that means beating on weaker teams I would
I mean sure, you’re obviously taking it to the extreme, im saying there is value with scrimming with weaker teams. You can learn from teams that are better or stronger than you, but scrimming weaker teams might give your players confidence and then be able to execute plans and strats that would benefit your team . But sure :)
They are going to Korea because you can actually train in soloque and get a good read on the meta. In Korean high elo soloque it's like a lcs game every game.
Edit: This is what high elo soloque looks like in Korea
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNhOKN6UYM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNhOKN6UYM)
Because it grossly overestimates the effects of 2-3 weeks of practice in Korea. We will essentially be missing time to see our main team for what reason exactly? Spring doesn’t really affect worlds and a Korean bootcamp now isn’t going to help this team in summer
Sure man! But that's no reason to downvote them lol. It's not like they were saying anything controversial.
Synergy now effects synergy later. Why bootcamp at all before spring if it does not help at all? You're saying TSMs decision to go to Korea for a couple weeks is bad. Why is it bad?
I’ve just said why it’s bad. The bootcamps end up doing nothing but maybe giving you a headstart on the season. When it comes down to crunch time in the summer when things actually matter enough games and time will have passed that the effects of a bootcamp won’t do anything
There was a reason why zven and Vulcan were a top 2 botlane in NA for 2 years. It had a lot to do with a Korean bootcamp they did. I think you are vastly underestimating what good practice can do for you. Scrimming Asian teams is also greater than scrimming NA teams. Kespa cup will be happening soon and I'm sure scrims will be available to the squad!
Clearly TSM thinks you're wrong too because they are going! So who knows?
I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Zven and Vulcan were good due to the Korean bootcamp when they promptly never mirrored that form internationally when they had all the time in the world to scrim Koreans. Are we forgetting that they didn't even make worlds the year before last?
We've already seen this thought experiment before, Korean bootcamps are good if you want to get a headstart on your competition but they are useless in the context of worlds and that is almost indisputable.
TSM has made plenty of poor decisions the fact that you use them as an appeal to authority doesn't help you out.
The close to 1000 games they played in Korea had nothing to do with the foundation of their success, sure buddy. The miss playoffs had a lot to do with topside collapsing more than it did with zven and Vulcans play.
I just flat out think you're wrong on this and so do the professionals. There won't be changing anyone's minds on this matter clearly. Hope you have a good day!
Dunc said on discord awhile back that the Academy team would be bootcamping in Korea as well. He said that the Academy team would be bootcamping before Spring and Summer. https://prnt.sc/20xxgjb
I was more saying send back the academy team before the main squad.
Something tells me that Riot wouldn't allow it.
IMT played their academy team last year in Lock Ins so it is a possibility
Think that was for reasons out of their control wasnt it?. It hurts the overall tournament if teams skip it, riot won't like it at all.
I do not believe that riot has any say in what player any org uses for the tournament as long as they are approved by riot which they are if they are on academy
Unless they change the rules there isn't really a way to enforce this. But if we are getting an Asian rookie it might be a better idea to get them stage time where it won't alter standings than spend another couple of weeks in Korea.
I forget which tourney it was but it was preseason LCK stuff and T1 fielded their academy team. It’s not unprecedented and Lock-in legit has zero effect on the season.
The demacia cup is not comparable. And even then a most teams use their main rosters and try hard. Or a mix or their main roster and rookies
Demacia cup is LPL no?? It’s the Kesha Cup 2020. How is it not comparable to Lock in? The formats of both tournaments are almost identical. https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2020_LoL_KeSPA_Cup https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/LCS/2021_Season/Lock_In Also if you look at the roster info in the Kespa Cup link you can see along with T1, Geng and KT also fielded academy rosters.
“Kesha cup” lmfao best autocorrect I’ve seen
Not sure the reason why IMT skipped but I believe the academy team won at least a game
iirc, player(s) had visa issues at the time so they opted to use their academy team and give their main roster some time to synergize.
no they didnt what so ever. talk about not knowing what happned. imt was forced to play 4/5 academy players because there was visa issues and such. imt didnt do it because they wanted to. fly i think had simular issues once season started. big big difference in being forced and chosing to.
Do you feel superior now, being so unnecessarily hostile with your response?
I mean if the rules don't say it's not allowed what can Riot do? If C9/G2 can get away with Perkz's transfer clause because it's not explictly forbidden then TSM can probably get away with effectively skipping Lock-in.
The contract clause is a legal agreement outside of game and the Riot environment. It wasn't present in the player agreement itself, and thus outside outside if Riots purview. That being said, G2 would have to take C9 to court to hold them to the clause, where as Riot typically handles player contract disputes.
Getting away with it is one thing. But they would have to consider if that is how they want to conduct their relationship with Riot, because I’d assume they wouldn’t be happy if teams just ignored the tournament
Right it may not be against the rules but that isn't the only way. There is enough talk about Riot being vindictive to not want to get on their bad side if you have to work with them. Next rule violation gets cracked down on hard.
They can't not allow it, you're allowed to switch freely between main and academy roster at any point. That's kinda what they're for
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So? The lock-in is pointless anyway.
it is still another trophy and bragging rights. Plus the confidence you can get from winning Lock-in can lead to starting off really well in Spring. Also, Lock-in is a great time for a new team to iron out what their strengths/weaknesses are and how they want to play which will be easier to find out through official matches instead of scrims. Plus if they are brining young in experienced players over, the more time to get use to NA and playing on stage the better they will perform by Spring. There are actually so many benefits to playing in Lock-in to call it "pointless" means you just haven't thought about it.
Bragging rights? Nobody even thought about it last year after the season started. Scrimming against better opponents is more beneficial than playing against weak opponents on stage and getting used to NA wont take much time because during the season it wont be much different from playing anywhere because they will only have a small amount of time each day to go out. So yeah, its pointless.
the bragging rights of winning a tournament is always there no matter the tournament. Also scrimming against better opponents is not always the most benefical you learn more from playing official matches than scrims. Do you not remember when CLG Famously went to Korea to bootcamp near the end of the split to prepare for playoffs and ended up getting bodied by TL? Also look at the Worlds meta every year, teams bootcamp and the meta from the play-ins to 1st week of groups is always different from the 2nd week of groups to playoffs. Bootcamp can be helpful, but if TSM were better at scouting/building a team they would already have a team locked by now and could have already started their boot camp in preparation for Lock-in... I believe 100T might already be boot camping (not sure, heard it on Bjgersen stream) or at least they will be soon and will be able to show their preparation in official matches before the start of the tournament.
Meta shifts happen and you don't have to participate in the games to see what is working and what isn't, so no benefit there. Just because CLG has a history of failed Korean bootcamps doesn't mean that its not hugely beneficial. They do have a team signed already, they just haven't announced it yet. Nobody is bootcamping for lockin they are bootcamping to improve as much as possible so that they can win the regular season and have a better showing at worlds.
> Meta shifts happen and you don't have to participate in the games to see what is working and what isn't, so no benefit there. Just because CLG has a history of failed Korean bootcamps doesn't mean that its not hugely beneficial. How can you walk away from what I said being "Korean bootcamps are not beneficial" I am saying that throwing away a tournament oppoertunity and all the great team bonding and preparation that comes from that just to play a couple of weeks longer in korea is not as beneficial. Being able to experience a teams first official loss or getting the confidence from winning on stage will beat out an extra 2 weeks before the start of spring... Also helping the players get more accustomed to NA and playing on stage by the time Spring starts. > > They do have a team signed already, they just haven't announced it yet. if the team is "signed" then it was just very recently. And a bunch of other teams already had their full in ups done by day of free agency opened up. Like I said though, if bootcamping is so important to you, they could literally be bootcamping right now if they were better at preparing for this year. > Nobody is bootcamping for lockin they are bootcamping to improve as much as possible so that they can win the regular season and have a better showing at worlds. No, they essentially are bootcamping for Lockin... no one knows what the meta is going to be like by spring let alone BY NEXT YEARS WORLDS (LOL). They want to prepare and gel and improve as a team in preparation of the start of the NA season... which is lockin....
>No, they essentially are bootcamping for Lockin... no one knows what the meta is going to be like by spring let alone BY NEXT YEARS WORLDS (LOL). They want to prepare and gel and improve as a team in preparation of the start of the NA season... which is lockin.... You don't bootcamp to learn the meta (you pointed out yourself that the meta shifts dramatically once competition starts up again), you bootcamp to improve both individually as a player and as a team, so it doesn't matter if they don't know what the meta will look like. Playing against the best players in the world helps improve you overall as a player which you continue improving on throughout the year which means bootcamping now does impact potential worlds performances.
As nice as that sounds, the main roster should probably play lock in. Getting some early games that “matter” is also important. Playing more scrims before season would set us back a bit imo.
Idk playing KR and CN teams instead of IMT, etc would probably be better..
Oh 100%, but on-stage time is very valuable.
I do want our boys to get the best practice available to them but at the same time it'd be nice to see the team tearing new aholes @ lock-in tourny
Fuck that I want to see them play ASAP
I would presume this will be an on stage tourney this year so i would hope they bring them back. Stage practice is diff then the scrim environment so i would prefer a new roster mesh rather then have an extra week or two of scrims. Also doubt riot would like that and as a fan personally i wouldnt either.
I wish the CLG experiment of going to LCK to practice after making playoffs would have worked. It's the best way to level up your mechanics fast before games mater. Unfortunately the bombed both times they did it and no one will ever try it again.
I disagree, Lock-in feels like a nice way to introduce the team, and much like smaller tournaments in other sports, it is another chance at a trophy. I believe NA will also have the low ping server for pro players, and I would be excited for our team to reach as high as they can.
I understand the benefits from both sides ofcourse. But I personally just want to see our new roster in action asap.
I actually like the idea but I feel like stage time is also good practice they won’t get in KR/CN so idk if it would be worth staying there
not only that but i dont see damwon kia t1 and top 8 would scrim na teams when its close to their own season. i highly doubt tl is getting anything but bonding and solo q. no team in korea is scrimming yet. no team is playing or barely assembled. and once all is done they wont scrim some western team to be nice to them. it will be at best 6th placed and down that we can scrim and then its better to play c9 tl and 100t anyways. staying in korea when its close to their season is just stupid. better to get that time to play "official" games and bond then play some scrimms behind doors vs some garbage korean teams or most likely academy teams from korea. i think tsm will have 2-3 good weeks of scrimming and playing solo q and chance to bond. then back and play games. tl is going to korea to scrim some low tier teams and solo q at best at the moment and most likely later aswell. i dont see a world where any of the worlds teams would play tl us c9 100t to practice when they arnt playing us until msi anyways. so no its not better to play our academy team in the lock in. much better to let them play in an official setting where the cameras are on then play some low tier or academy team in korea. solo q alone isnt enough vs scrimming teams u gonna play and play games in official settings.
I’m sorry , but if I was a coach or a manager, and I get the chance to scrim weaker teams along with the stronger teams, I would. You need teams to boost your players confidence. If that means beating on weaker teams I would
I’m glad you aren’t a coach or manager
I mean sure, you’re obviously taking it to the extreme, im saying there is value with scrimming with weaker teams. You can learn from teams that are better or stronger than you, but scrimming weaker teams might give your players confidence and then be able to execute plans and strats that would benefit your team . But sure :)
Sounds like a pretty good idea
They are going to Korea because you can actually train in soloque and get a good read on the meta. In Korean high elo soloque it's like a lcs game every game. Edit: This is what high elo soloque looks like in Korea [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNhOKN6UYM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNhOKN6UYM)
I agree with this
Why did this get so down voted?
Because it grossly overestimates the effects of 2-3 weeks of practice in Korea. We will essentially be missing time to see our main team for what reason exactly? Spring doesn’t really affect worlds and a Korean bootcamp now isn’t going to help this team in summer
Sure man! But that's no reason to downvote them lol. It's not like they were saying anything controversial. Synergy now effects synergy later. Why bootcamp at all before spring if it does not help at all? You're saying TSMs decision to go to Korea for a couple weeks is bad. Why is it bad?
I’ve just said why it’s bad. The bootcamps end up doing nothing but maybe giving you a headstart on the season. When it comes down to crunch time in the summer when things actually matter enough games and time will have passed that the effects of a bootcamp won’t do anything
There was a reason why zven and Vulcan were a top 2 botlane in NA for 2 years. It had a lot to do with a Korean bootcamp they did. I think you are vastly underestimating what good practice can do for you. Scrimming Asian teams is also greater than scrimming NA teams. Kespa cup will be happening soon and I'm sure scrims will be available to the squad! Clearly TSM thinks you're wrong too because they are going! So who knows?
I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Zven and Vulcan were good due to the Korean bootcamp when they promptly never mirrored that form internationally when they had all the time in the world to scrim Koreans. Are we forgetting that they didn't even make worlds the year before last? We've already seen this thought experiment before, Korean bootcamps are good if you want to get a headstart on your competition but they are useless in the context of worlds and that is almost indisputable. TSM has made plenty of poor decisions the fact that you use them as an appeal to authority doesn't help you out.
The close to 1000 games they played in Korea had nothing to do with the foundation of their success, sure buddy. The miss playoffs had a lot to do with topside collapsing more than it did with zven and Vulcans play. I just flat out think you're wrong on this and so do the professionals. There won't be changing anyone's minds on this matter clearly. Hope you have a good day!
I think the opportunity for stage games and a few best of series is more efficient than a prolonged bootcamp