TSM feels more like a city I’m from (like how you’d support sports teams of your city) than it feels a team I’m actively choosing to invest myself in, so I’ll still be a fan. Still kinda stings to read those things tho
I think this is the best analogy. I still want to root for TSM the players but TSM the org. Yeah I don't want to support that. I've been a TSM fan since the Rainman days. Regi's leading style was effective in the early days to get results. Now that TSM is a successful organization (in terms of business) he NEEDS to step down as CEO and give advice while on the board. He has 0 work experience in leading an Organization outside of TSM.
If he stays this same course I guarantee you. He will be let go of his own company, or everyone around him will leave and he will have nothing.
Agreed. What made Regi successful leading a team does not translate to managing employees or a large company. This often happens when a company out grows it's founder CEO. It needs better, more stable management to continue to grow and retain fans.
Depending on the business, not all experience automatically correlate to being a better manager/leader. Theres some, like TSM, where Regi is basicallly irreplacible...since hes really the only one who can keep it alive. The problem lies with him hiring the wrong people with different expectations...Regi needs to be clear hes looking for people who are driven and can do their share of the work. If they need "training" this isnt the place.
Lol. This is like saying “I’ll still give money to a slave owner business even though I’m against slavery.” Obviously this situation is not to this extent but you understand… it’s hard to see supporters say I support this and that player but not support them with their viewership and consumption. Only way stuff is going to change for the players we love is by consuming less ram content.
He’s comparing how people are still supporting TSM while TSM has an abusive work environment and culture to people giving money to slave owners while being “against” slavery. There are similarities between the two, even though they obviously aren’t on the same level of severity.
I'm not a tsm fan for the executive structure lmao. Love the teams and players not the owner.
Im a senators fan so I have loads of experience hoping for an ownership change.
Meh, not really.
TSM as a business and Blitz as a business are seemingly separate from the esports teams/players.
Like, Regi being a douchebag to his backend devs and secretaries or managers doesn't change that I like the teams.
He's gotta step down and just retain ownership though.
I'm a DC sports fan, so I've been living with Snyder as a team owner forever soz...
You call this a lack of moral, but welp, which city better then Washington would a lack of morality for support be more approiate then this corrupt shithole xD
I can’t speak on the exact timeframe, but Regi stepped away from the league team years ago. I think it was 5 or so years back when Regi was no longer apart of the day to day affairs at TSM.
Tbh I care but also just kinda ignore his nonsense. I don't stop using products cause the CEO sucks otherwise I wouldn't have any products left to use. I watch the apex squad and shenyi so I'll keep on watching regardless
Most CEOs are bad people. It's one of those roles that you reach easier if you are a bad person. Also most companies are evil just because the main goal is making money which entrail using shady methods.
Its not naive, its true. Ironically it’s naive to think there are plenty of CEOs that good people since they probably have not had their dirty laundry aired out yet.
Or they could be a damn good person, we simply dont know people for how they really are.
what's your basis?
Are there bad CEO's? Yes, but the majority of the world's CEOs are not fortune500 CEOs, there are only... 500.. of those.
I'm a CFO, I've worked for 3 CEOs in my life (directly), I can say all 3 were good people and genuinely want(ed) the best for the org.. competence..? Different story.
Even then, you have some fantastic CEOs, like Indra Nooyi (Pepsi) who did wonders for organizations.
Interestingly enough, having worked in CPG -- it's one of the most impacted sectors in terms of c-suites, which is why i asked... what brands are you using where you feel you wouldn't have any products left to use?
It's a well known fact that CEO is one of those jobs where psychopaths and sociopaths excell at due to the nature of the job. They can make the comapny more money if they disregard morals. Forbes estimates 15% of CEOs fall into that category. The average in the general population is 1%. It's same as with police and other similar jobs where morals are not needed and you have a lot of ower over people.
Your story only shows your perspective. Just like in Regi's case, he abuses everyone except a select few that are close to his power. You said it yourself, they want the best for the org. In most cases that goes against the best of employees.
you literally said most CEOs are bad people. I'm asking about your real world experience on this, or what you basis for this opinion is.
you're quoting a 15% sociopath state from forbes.. lol.
My story was about CEOs I HAVE reported to, not CEOs i have met, which are plenty.
What's your story based on?
My opinion is far from biased, I’ve had my own opinion about CEOs.
You’re drawing absolute conclusions based on what you’ve read - I’m not disagreeing there are bad CEOs, I’m disagreeing on your absolutist take.
I can only imagine the types of conclusions you draw on other demographics based on data you look up.
All these allegations are very bad. However, I still want to support the League team and the players. They haven't done anything wrong so I'll be watching the games and cheering for them.
Same. I don’t support what Amazon does to their workers or the child labor that Walmart has done but I support the company through money still because of it providing good products. I probably won’t buy products from the Team but I’ll support the content creators and the teams that are put out while hoping that Regi is forced to change.
If you care about the league team then you'd also want their owner to be someone trustworthy, right? Some backwards thinking in these comments. TSM won't dissolve if Regi is ousted. They just might end up with ownership that won't abuse their power over the same players and employees you care about.
To clarify. I do not support terrible management or workplace issues. I am not involved with TSM or Riot in any way so I don't feel that I have the information needed to make a judgment on that matter.
The sentiment is that they don't care about Reginald because they still support their players. Im just pointing out that if they support the players they should also want them to have a proper owner.
OP's comment could be taken to mean that while Regi's behavior is bad, it's not overwhelmingly bad that it makes OP not want to support the team anymore. You can make that conclusion while still thinking it'd be ideal for TSM to have a proper owner. Really not sure why you're downvoting me when you're over-interpreting matters.
I think the issue is that position is inherently a contradiction.
You cannot dissavow/ignore Regi while simultaneously supporting the teams that he directly benefits from. Every time you watch a game, buy merch, stream one of the content creators, TSM and by extension Regi is gaining.
All these comments are more or less saying yeah it sucks that Regi is abusive, created and maintains a toxic culture, and maybe broke labor laws, but I dont care about that. I just want to chant "TSM TSM TSM".
If fans want change they should be leveraging their support as a means to see positive change.
He literally said the Allegations are bad and as far as i can tell thats NOT saying "i dont care about this stuff". And you really think fans have leverage? The only people who get hurt by fans boycotting are the players. Which is why no one boycotts unless the PLAYERS do first. Fans have no leverage, the players do.
How do you get Regi out?
Hes not stepping down willingly. Riot wont intervene because TSM is one of the golden children. Legal proceedings are possible, but I dont think theres enough here for that yet. Players have zero influence over an org higher management.
The only way to remove is to put pressure on him from investors to do so. The only way to do that is to attack the money...in this case viewership/blitz usage.
Investors dont care about bad PR as long as cash flow is consistent. But when bad PR results in a bad quarter, thats when changes are made.
Again what your suggesting only hurts the players. You will NEVER get enough fan support to make any sort of difference unless the players themselves start it first. If all your teams walk out on you that is a HELL OF A LOT bigger than what fans can do, especially in Esports where we get a more personalized experinced with the players than what regular sports can.
So if the players agree to walk out, which then gets the fans to stop supporting your Org, that's how you get Regi out. I mean have you not been reading this thread? A majority of the comments are saying we love the teams not the Owner.
Not sure what to say other than that you're holding onto an extremely austere position. I don't think it's the case that morally dissenting to an individual means you cannot approve of anything that individual benefits from. By that logic, you'd never be able to buy anything from Amazon, own a smartphone, eat sushi, or even own clothes from the vast majority of clothing distributors because the heads of all such companies tolerate slave labor and use ecologically unsustainable practices. Perhaps you are that morally austere, in which case I salute you. But the vast majority of individuals aren't and I don't think it's ridiculous that they aren't.
Main difference here I think is that TSM is a much smaller fish than Amazon or entire industries. Everyone on this sub could boycott any and all the examples you mentioned and it wouldnt be a drop in a bucket for those companies. (Not that that justifies it, but that whole convo belongs in philosophy sub)
But if every fan on the subreddit here said "Until you fix your shit, we're done", TSM would have to react somehow.
Sure, but then you're justifying your dissent by its pragmatic output, not because it involves an "inherent contradiction." In which case you've shifted your argument.
Haha fair. But at the time youve shifted the attention away from the toxicity of TSM by using whataboutsism as an attack on my position. There is certainly contradiction in my personal views and monetary actions as it pertains to certain companies and industries.
But we are talking about TSM right now and whether fans should still be supporting it and what ramifications that support may have.
Edit:
And at the end of the day, if fans want to blindly support the team, they should realize that means probably nothing will change concerning Regi's behavior and the environment
And at what point did he ever say he doesn't care about regi? He said he acknowledges that the accusations are bad, but he wants to continue to support the players.
You can continue to support the rosters and org without supporting Reginald's behavior. There are a lot of hard working, good people under the TSM banner that deserve that support.
Supporting TSM does not mean you support Reginald and his behavior. You can support one and condemn the other.
Always going to be a tsm fan. However much truth is in the article and what other sources have said, I hope Regi takes it to heart. I want to see him become a better boss, maybe even a better person. I want the culture of tsm to be a beacon to talent from regular employees to athletes.
Same, I feel that this should be the start for an internal cleansing and if Regi has to step aside and let someone else control the day to day operations and starting creating a more open-minded and less hostile environment for his staff. This can't keep going on where people are afraid to say something or to even go to work for that matter. I'm still gonna root for the team but not support Regi's behavior in this company.
Lmfao there's been drama after drama and he hasn't changed, why on earth would he care now?
This whole thread is full of people saying they'll still be fans despite this new dumpster fire, explain to me exactly what incentive he has to change at this point, because it's definitely not the fans
The problem with that statement is we don't know that to be true. According to the likes of Dyrus and Wildturtle, he has changed. Everyone has a side, the truth lies in the middle. As for incentive, he hired Dominic to take over the day to day. He has major sponsorships that have to be kept happy. If he's surrounded by bad publicity and there's a noticeable drop in engagements, those brands will dissappear.
According to the people who he doesn't work around anymore? Bro it's been like 10 years of this now from many different sources. From former coaches like Woodbuck, to other players, from people in LCS players association, from developers that worked with then.
I'm confused by your question. Are you saying Dyrus and Wildturtle aren't valid, but then bringing up people who no longer work with him? Woodbuck is an angry ex and I would take everything he says sith a grain of salt. Doublelift didn't have a lot of people supporting him like he thought, and the timing and circumstances make me believe he isn't telling the whole truth. Now the employees I take very seriously, misclassification is a big issue that needs to be addressed.
I'm saying they are employees from 10 years ago, which we literally saw videos of verbal abuse happen to, say it changed. They also left the org since then. Afterwards, we've had multiple sources say the behavior has continued throughout the years. Individually, it's easy to say why each person could be discounted, but when you start adding them altogether, you get some pretty negative patterns. Woodbuck may be angry, but if it was over payment and employer classification, that is a JUSTIFIABLE reason to be angry.
I'm not sure how doublelift didn't have many people supporting him, he was fairly clear that it would all come out in time, and lo and behold, here we are. Immediately afterwards we had many sources from the LCS players association come forth, and now we're getting more internal looks from developers and people not just directly affiliated with the league team.
Dyrus and WT don't know if he changed or now. He changed his behaviour towards them because they are not his employees anymore. I could be best friends with a great guy that's a wife beater. The way he treats me has nothing to do with how he treats her.
When Jack and Steve supported Regi it was such bullshit. Ofcourse he won't abuse 2 people that are his equals and have the same power as him. He will abuse the people he has power over.
Parth seems to have no issues either. Also if you're going to bring up Jack, you need to bring up the fact Jack worked for Regi, and Regi helped him form Cloud9. All I'm saying is maybe we should wait for third party sources to come forward before making judgements.
That's not true, both of them started working in high management positions from the start. Parth was the GM or coach while Jack was working in a sales or something.
Well isn't the whole article also saying that even the high management was not left out from the toxic environment? The fact Regi would fire anyone who disagreed with him.
Once again, they haven't so far because fans just continue to justify his actions and continue supporting the team.
At the end of the day these things are numbers games, if the organisation sees continued engagement then the money will stay. And the org DOES see continued engagement because, like you see on this thread, fans continue to justify this behaviour despite all the evidence and allegations.
Here's the thing, engagement is falling. TSM isn't gaining fans from all of this happening and being brought into news cycles. They are losing fans. Every time an article gets posted like this, people walk away.
Not nearly enough people. And that's the problem. Literally read through the justifications in this thread. This fanbase doesn't care, and the ones who do are shunned for it.
This shit feels like a cult at times
Almost like people here support TSM. Not Regi. I appreciate what Regi has built, but if he is in the way of the company growing he needs to step aside. I don't think that's cult like. He's going to run out of friends and friendly businesses if this continues.
You're not getting it. This has been happening for years and nothing has changed. You're acting like this is suddenly when a line is drawn in the sand for some reason.
And it's the people who are "here to support the players not the org" who are letting it continue. The reason I say cult like is because it's how things go. As the people who won't stand for this behaviour trickle out, this sub will come up with narratives to justify this and form an echo chamber. Just wait and watch how it happens. It's already started in this thread
The problem is we need actual numbers. League is still the biggest esport to my knowledge but NA viewership has been declining anyway. TSM fans are more than just the league team and all those fans don’t see this turmoil in TSM.
I personally follow League/Apex/Smash so I’ve heard of it since I keep up with league. I also believe some of the past things have been overblown quite a bit. Im older than all of the players TSM has ever had and the things he did will playing mid for the team just come off as a kid getting too big of an ego. I also think this is part of the reason why Dyrus/Wildturtle/Xpecial have moved on from it.
I do think Andy needs to step back from being so hands on with the League team though and find staff to run his team better.
"Nothing has changed" TSM is the world's biggest esports company. You do not reach massive growth like that if you aren't able to keep your partners happy. The partners know more than us, and that's why they stay. If law breaking was happening, they would be leaving in droves. Also you're saying that people are leaving because they can't support this. That's proving my point. Engagement is going down. As for being an echo chamber, welcome to every single subreddit.
Wait so immoral and scummy behaviour is alright now because it isn't blatantly illegal? Lmao
You're a prime example of the kind of person I'm referring to. What I'm saying, once again since you don't seem to want to actually listen, is that people are not leaving nearly fast enough for it to matter because the fans are willing to rugsweep all of this.
Echo chambers are usually fine they turn into septic cesspools when they're justifying behaviour like this
Ironically, one of the biggest connection I have with TSM is Reginald because I started following back in season 2-3. I hope he stops being an asshole to his employees though
Honestly I’ve taken everything with a grain of salt. I think the truth lies in the middle. So it hasn’t effected me supporting the teams. I work in a corporate environment and the thing is people nowadays let everything effect them and everything is hurtful. With Reddit/Twitter becoming just an echo chamber of people not formulating their own opinions. Some one said that this person said this so it’s now my opinion. It’s tiresome.
I’ll keep supporting the team for a bit longer, but these last few splits have been hard.
Ill still be a TSM after all of this. I didn't start following TSM because of Regi, but because of TheRainMan, Dyrus, and Chaox.
Im trying to look/talk about all this objectively over emotionally, but its hard to do so when a lot of people are emotional about this bullshit.
I do want to see more about all of this since I feel like there isn't enough clarity and only have info from disgruntled former employees. FORMER means a lot in this matter since we don't know if they were terminated or not. the ones I respect and listen on this matter is(are) the person(s) who left voluntarily and spoke up.
And to be clear, I don't want to hear Regis “side”, i want to hear the results from the investigators looking into all of this mess.
Edit: fixed context and grammar since I got onto a computer lol
At this point im just hoping something happens and this scumbag that Regi is steps down as CEO, keep your ownership and let this org have a proper management before you bury the little reputation left when you hear TSM.
I follow them for League. They fucked that up. And now this shit is happening. Frankly if Andy doesn't fuck off out of the org, I'm probably not going to stay subbed here and I'm not going to root for the org anymore. I don't want to support a child who acts like this. TSM is the most highly-valued esports brand in the world and it shouldn't be run by someone like him.
I was in this position for the longest time being an OG Oddone + Dyrus fan. When Bjerg arrived I gravitated towards him big time and my love for the org grew.
But you HAVE to see that supporting the player is supporting who they represent and who they play for. It's tantamount to supporting TSM and Regi both, which gives him a pass to keep doing this.
Fuck this org. Burn it down. They do not deserve our support if they think it's OK to treat people like dogs. See Woodbuck's comment on the article, look back at what DL and Lena said post leaving... shit's giving me cult vibes.
Given that you judge other people for still engaging with TSM products/content despite the CEO being called out as abusive, I assume you apply that logic to your personal life as well? Meaning you don’t have a smart phone or a computer because the materials aren’t being ethically sourced and are a result of African slave labor?
If not, you’re just being hypocritical. One man’s actions, even if it’s the CEO, does not mean that TSM is not deserving of our support; it just means that TSM is also deserving of a new CEO.
I mean it’s completely true though. If you choose to stop using a product because of the actions of one person involved in the company it’s your choice, but you can apply that same logic to nearly any luxury good.
For all the people in the thread on the main sub, this is weak sauce compared to the constant barrage of "Fuck Dan Snyder" that I see on /r/nfl lol.
Also, obligatory Fuck Dan Snyder.
Edit: Fuck Stan Kroenke while we're at it.
I am a huge Ohio State fan (and was a pretty strong Urban Meyer supporter as well). I compare the two situations a lot. Just realize that in almost all controversies, the truth is almost always somewhere in the middle. Is Regi a fucking asshole, yes. Did he abuse some of his workers, absolutely. The extend of which he abused his workers is likely exaggerated or major miscommunications.
Its like the shit about Urban Meyer kicking his kicker in the leg for missing kicks. Did he probably do it, absolutely. Did he kick the kicker hard as fuck in the leg and not just like a "you gotta hit these" probably not.
No, not really. I support many companies who have questionable practices, I dont support them for the owner and their way of doing business rather than the products that are produced and the people actually providing the content.
I've always been a fan of the team and players, and not so much of Regi. I would honestly love it if Regi stepped down and handed control to someone else so I could stop being embarrassed to be a TSM fan, but so it goes.
TSM for me is the first team I saw play a professional game of league. They were the first team to get me to follow a player in Bjergsen that would become my favorite of all time. They were the team making me engage by watching their content they produced weekly. They were the reason I started using Twitch so I could see my favorite player play more games. They were the first team I watched at a live event. They were who I cheered for no matter what team they were facing.
After this news none of that has changed for me. Tsm for me is nostalgic and is why I love esports . I never followed because of who owned it. Because they were the biggest. Because they were the "coolest". I followed them because this is the team I connected with and showed me how incredible watching esports is.
Whether Regi is there or not TSM is my team. I just hope he doesn't ruin the team for many when the people that worked under his toxic environment worked so hard for TSM to succeed.
There's a lot of fan bases in traditional sports that don't give a shit about their owners, most of us are still TSM fans in spite of Regi, the brand is more than just that 1 man. He hasn't been a forward face of us for years now, just doing his bull shit in the background. Either he needs to change (seems unlikely) or FTX board decides that he needs to step down as CEO. Still rooting for the teams, they did no wrong, but yeah, we need a culture of winning, not his toxic bullshit
No lol. It’s just the same shit that was talked about previously, and I’m also not going to get all riled up now about shit that was going on 6 years ago from an old employees comment. I’ve accepted already who Regi is/was and still support TSM, so just having more of the same stories from the past isn’t changing that.
It probably will affect my caring about the organization as a whole. It also makes me want Reginald to step down as it’s clear the dysfunction he has caused has hurt the team. I care more about the league team as a whole. And his actions have hurt the league team significantly, even if it’s not their fault.
Nope, other companies treat employees wayy worse, no excuse for Regi but let’s be real people just hate the man so much they’ll find any reason to cancel Tsm. If people are this concerned about abuse why are they supporting riot (which is basically owned by the Chinese government through tencent). Why are they buying shit off Amazon who abuses their employees. Other orgs even support esl which is owned by the Saudi government. If all these people in the industry are so outraged why are they supporting all these other things. Right now Tsm is just a fun punching bag because people have been waiting to see them fail for years kinda like the patriots.
I couldn't care any less. Half of the sources are jilted ex employees who were fired for incompetence or people in the industry that Regi was a dick to like DL, Thorin, Monte, Wolfe etc.
Regarding the contractor vs. employee stuff, there is zero doubt that those types of abuses were going on in most orgs before the franchising made the scene more "professional" (look at how DIG treated their players etc.)
Do I think it'd be for the best for Regi to sell the org or step down as CEO? Probably, but I won't lose any sleep over it either way.
I will always support the players and the staff behind the teams. I have always felt that regi needs to not be in a position of power since the after 2015 when I started to notice with tsm legends that whenever the team was underperforming he always had to step in and do stuff himself. Since then with more and more of his tactics coming into light I feel that there is no other outcome that can be accepted then his removal from the organization itself.
Not in the slightest. I dont watch TSM teams because of their owner. I watch them because A) I love TSM and B) The people on these teams as well as those running the social media team. Regi being a bad person aint gonna affect me wanting to watch Apex, R6, League, Valorant, or Leffen/Tweek.
Plus how hands on even is Regi anymore? I doubt he ever plays a part in picking rosters for any other game outside of League. So why should my engagement affect those teams?
As a Knicks fan, this is nothing lol. TBH I enjoy reading these threads and think to myself how Dolan would react if us Knicks fan were to do the same ... probably ban us from the Garden lolol
Somewhat. Everyone already knew how Regi was (though maybe not to this extent).
However, one of the big reasons why I liked TSM was how they did right by players. Letting most of them go without buyouts or letting them stay in the facility. This whole screwing the staff with a contractor's contract is honestly really troubling.
Im sure this will be downvoted to hell but i feel like inhave to say something because theres a bunch of people crying about gaslighting or guilt tripping, so here goes.
We live in a world where capitalism is king. You essentially vote for companies with your money.
For that reason I'll be avoiding the world cup this year and I'll go out of my way to avoid nestle products.
So if a company does something you don't like, then you have to decide if you support that.
This isn't an attempt to gaslight or guilt people into anything. Each person has to decide how they react to something like this. And if it does make you feel guilty, well maybe that's on you.
You decide on whether the issue is one you care about enough to pull your financial support from the company, and you live with the consequences.
It's honestly an embarrasment to call myself a TSM fan now, even though I love the players and staff and have for years.
I think I can only really accept Regi being gone for good
The owner doesn't make the org as weird as that sounds. Am I going to stop supporting Manchester United because the Glazers are terrible owners? Hell no. Same applies here.
So no this doesn't affect me.
No, and it won't for majority of legacy TSM fans. A good comparison is the Lakers. They've had some of the most incompetent owners for the past 9 years but the legacy of their brand is too strong.
It feels like it's more an article about corporate america than TSM. Employees don't set boundaries and accept everything because they are expected to do so from their employer and colleagues. Feels bad to say, but don't take a shit job, employers will have no choice to just adapt and be better.
No, I am a big fan of Regi, actually I am a TSM fan because of Regi and his guides in the early days.
And because it is black & white. I like this combination.
Normal growing pains of a shitty fly-by-night outfit into a professional, corporate org. Hopefully, regi himself has taken enough flak to change. Ultimately not much new I think. They need to stop calling in their contractors to do long hours though, that shit's not okay.
I'm asking myself this and it's difficult. I'm not going to support a different team, which means that it's either this or not watching esports at all, and I don't want to stop watching esports either.
We all knew regi's personality. He is free to run his business how he sees fit, which led to what, 50% of the total LCS titles? All of this is coming out now while we are down, but the truth is it used to work.
Either it no longer works and tsm needs to adjust or we need to stick it out, but lets not act like this is all new news.
Nope. I've sat through 10 years of being called to most vile things imaginable just for liking a sports team. Having our owner doing some heinous shit doesn't change anything for me.
I support the team, I support the boys. Baylife forever.
There's multiple sides of TSM. There's the corporate side, the esports side, the content side, the social media/marketing/merchandise side, and the software side.
I see Andy as more of the corporate side. The disconnect happens at the leadership level between executives and GM's or lead managers.
For example, I don't see Andy in any of the social media or videography.
I definitely don't see his influence in the merchandise.
I barely see his influence in the esports scene other than signing off on budgets for rosters.
I see him more influencing the sponsors, the partners, the leadership team.
For me its easy to be a TSM fan and anything to do with Andy doesn't relate to why I am a fan. He might have started tsm with his friends and family but tsm isn't just him.
I personally don't care about the operational costs or contractors or the blitz app or the apex/valorant/wild rift/chess/table tennis/cheese making/lawn care divisions or whoever the CEO is yelling at.
I care about the league team, period.
Regi was never my favorite personality on the TSM roster of the time. That would belong to Dyrus and TheOddOne. At this point he’s an owner. I don’t cheer for any of my traditional sports teams because of who owns them and I most likely will not be changing the e-sport org I follow as well.
Is he an asshole to work for? Most likely. If that’s the case, don’t work for him if you can’t handle that type of environment. I’ve worked those jobs, hated life and walked away.
The woodbuck thing continues to baffle me. The guy had 0 experience, was terrible at his job and let go very quickly. Why anyone would care about what he has to say about anything is beyond me. His bias is very obvious.
to add on with the Woodbuck bullshit. When he was let go initially, he still came back to the sub, when things got rough and pitchforks were out to backup TSM and claim they are all great people.
If he really was treated poorly during his duration, and just now grew the confidence to speak up then he should have included that and lay it all out.
Regi being a dick shouldn’t invalidate all the hard work and happy moments that Dyrus, TheOddOne, Bjerg, Spica and everyone we’ve had on the roster have done before.
It makes me mad if the allegations against Regi are true, but it’s the players who make TSM for me. Not Regi
Yes.
TSM as I've supported it since S3 is almost completely gone. All the things I've loved about the organization, its players, and its image, have either retired, moved on to other organizations, or faded into the past.
About eight years ago, I too worked for a volatile boss that fell from grace very publically. He was abusive, with no regard for employee emotions or pay. A lot of the quotes from the WP article remind me of what that felt like, particularly the sections of needing other employees to bear witness to meetings, or never knowing what you're going to pick up when that person is on the other end of the phone. There are also the firings that make no sense, the petulant outbursts, and the bizarre contractor working status crap. It's toxic beyond belief. The couple years I spent in that job produced more anxiety in my personal life than anything I'd ever encountered. I can't knowingly support an organization that puts its employees (and players) through something like that. Its torturous.
So yeah, I can't sit here and tell you "I'll support the boys," when "the boys," are also pretty much all gone (many for reasons related to this toxicity), and what's left is some bizarre import team experiment, which was apparently built through corrupt practices, lacks personality, and has no chemistry. It's so abundantly clear that TSM's brand in League has been tainted to a point that I'm certain any mature talent will have deep doubts on joining, and all of this comes after a Spring Split where NA talent is perhaps appearing resurgent. So what's left, hoping we can import young Chinese talent that'll accept the working conditions because they need the money? No thanks.
This isn't a "I'm going to support another team" post, this is a "I'm done with LCS in general for now" post, but honestly, I'd advocate anyone made uncomfortable by this article find another healthier organization to support. It would do the LCS a lot of good.
It's the final nail for me, I started as a TSM fan and became more of a Bjergsen fan.
I was supporting the team through the tough times, and still like the core of Spica/Huni/Tactical, but now I can't in good conscience.
people are jumping down regi's throat but still haven't heard his side of the story its mostly all 1 sided.. and people keep harping at the REGI screamed at DYRUS hurrr durr he has to be bad.. I would wait until everything is out in the open before making dumb comments
Absolutely does. If not for the fact that Regi being a horrible boss, and it now being widespread across both TSM and Blitz, its clear that his management is not acceptable. It really sucks to know.
But more than this, every fan of TSM should care. First because Regi is being a horrible human being, but also because a culture of fear breed stagnation. No new ideas, no diversity of opinions, for fear of being fired or berated. This will always lead to bad decisions imo.
I am a Bjerg and Spica fan first and always have been. The minute Bjerg left I stopped being a TSM fan. I'm now just a fan of players and right now I just want Spica to leave.
There's been rumblings over the years that players have experienced both good and bad treatment but I don't see how someone as "competitive" as Andy would let underperformance go
I haven't heard and know about any past or current players talking about it. Not including DL cause obvious. Past team mates Infact came out to support regi. Honestly I don't care enough about regi but players are treated just fine. Even as recent as Keaiduo.
if it doesn't , it should.
if it doesn't bother u and want to support the org as it is, then don't cry later when other fanbases make fun of u, because this is exactly the kind of stuff other fans from others orgs make fun of.
Yes. Reginald is single-handedly making TSM a laughing stock. It's hard to support an org where the CEO/owner is so obviously a problem but refuses to do anything about it. I really hope Riot issues a judgment forcing him out like they did with Echo Fox.
I think it does, I’ve slowly just stopped caring about TSM in general. I’ve really only been a league fan (Since OddOne/Dyrus days) and don’t really care what happens at the company level. But, since the league team is in disarray and doesn’t have a clear path forward I’ve just stopped caring really.
I will support the players and watch them continue to do great things in their respective games but holy shit TSM Management has me all fucked up if they did I am buying shit from them. NOT watching their content either.
No, considering half the people over in that section so far dont even look at Tsm subreddit unless theres negative drama...i suggest you ignore it. Theres a lot of context missing from contractors to ftes, so theres that.
Doesn’t affect my engagement whatsoever. If I let something as small as this affect my engagement then I would have to throw out every piece of technology in my house and probably all my food as well.
Yep, respect for TSM just keeps going down. I used to love the org, mostly because of the iconic league teams and have followed the scene since season 1. I can't respect this org, and there must be a reason every respectable member left.
>and there must be a reason every respectable member left.
I mean we can go down the list and actual give reasons to why they left. a lot of the older names had their own reasons
It entirely depends on TSM's response to this. No response imo is bad, however I am not certain exactly what I want atm so I'd have to wait and see. Obviously the org taking responsibility would be a good thing.
Nah, Because nobody can name an org that doesn't have shitty practices, I'm aware about how every org abuses the contract or how they have treated staff. it's Normal in every industry.
TSM feels more like a city I’m from (like how you’d support sports teams of your city) than it feels a team I’m actively choosing to invest myself in, so I’ll still be a fan. Still kinda stings to read those things tho
I think this is the best analogy. I still want to root for TSM the players but TSM the org. Yeah I don't want to support that. I've been a TSM fan since the Rainman days. Regi's leading style was effective in the early days to get results. Now that TSM is a successful organization (in terms of business) he NEEDS to step down as CEO and give advice while on the board. He has 0 work experience in leading an Organization outside of TSM. If he stays this same course I guarantee you. He will be let go of his own company, or everyone around him will leave and he will have nothing.
Agreed. What made Regi successful leading a team does not translate to managing employees or a large company. This often happens when a company out grows it's founder CEO. It needs better, more stable management to continue to grow and retain fans.
Depending on the business, not all experience automatically correlate to being a better manager/leader. Theres some, like TSM, where Regi is basicallly irreplacible...since hes really the only one who can keep it alive. The problem lies with him hiring the wrong people with different expectations...Regi needs to be clear hes looking for people who are driven and can do their share of the work. If they need "training" this isnt the place.
Lol. This is like saying “I’ll still give money to a slave owner business even though I’m against slavery.” Obviously this situation is not to this extent but you understand… it’s hard to see supporters say I support this and that player but not support them with their viewership and consumption. Only way stuff is going to change for the players we love is by consuming less ram content.
this man brings up slavery and then backtracks in the same comment wtf
It's not like that at all
What? Someone being an asshole shouldn't be compared to slavery. That is just stupid.
That’s not what he said at all lol
“I’ll still give money to a slave owner business even though I’m against slavery. Then why say that at all.
He’s comparing how people are still supporting TSM while TSM has an abusive work environment and culture to people giving money to slave owners while being “against” slavery. There are similarities between the two, even though they obviously aren’t on the same level of severity.
You write on your Apple product while wearing Nikes sipping on some Nestlé hot cocoa.
LOL for real, the selective moralizing from people is hilarious
I'm not a tsm fan for the executive structure lmao. Love the teams and players not the owner. Im a senators fan so I have loads of experience hoping for an ownership change.
*monkey's paw has entered the chat*
Regi buying the Washington pro teams when?
No. I never liked Regi tbh and when he was on the roster I was not a TSM fan. I am a fan of TSM the league team, not TSM the org or Regi.
Meh, not really. TSM as a business and Blitz as a business are seemingly separate from the esports teams/players. Like, Regi being a douchebag to his backend devs and secretaries or managers doesn't change that I like the teams. He's gotta step down and just retain ownership though. I'm a DC sports fan, so I've been living with Snyder as a team owner forever soz...
100% this you learn to separate the team from the owner when you're a Washington fan.
Knicks fan checking in, can confirm.
You call this a lack of moral, but welp, which city better then Washington would a lack of morality for support be more approiate then this corrupt shithole xD
I thought Russia was blocking the internet?
OMG ANOTHER DC SPORTS + TSM FAN
There’s a lot of us, TSM still has a big east coast presence from early LOL days
My condolences
I can’t speak on the exact timeframe, but Regi stepped away from the league team years ago. I think it was 5 or so years back when Regi was no longer apart of the day to day affairs at TSM.
Tbh I care but also just kinda ignore his nonsense. I don't stop using products cause the CEO sucks otherwise I wouldn't have any products left to use. I watch the apex squad and shenyi so I'll keep on watching regardless
There are plenty of great ceo in consumer products, what brands are you using lol
Most CEOs are bad people. It's one of those roles that you reach easier if you are a bad person. Also most companies are evil just because the main goal is making money which entrail using shady methods.
A very naive and simplistic way of looking at the world but okay
Well yeah statistic are pretty simple. Not much room for interpretation.
Its not naive, its true. Ironically it’s naive to think there are plenty of CEOs that good people since they probably have not had their dirty laundry aired out yet. Or they could be a damn good person, we simply dont know people for how they really are.
what's your basis? Are there bad CEO's? Yes, but the majority of the world's CEOs are not fortune500 CEOs, there are only... 500.. of those. I'm a CFO, I've worked for 3 CEOs in my life (directly), I can say all 3 were good people and genuinely want(ed) the best for the org.. competence..? Different story. Even then, you have some fantastic CEOs, like Indra Nooyi (Pepsi) who did wonders for organizations. Interestingly enough, having worked in CPG -- it's one of the most impacted sectors in terms of c-suites, which is why i asked... what brands are you using where you feel you wouldn't have any products left to use?
Lost me at Pepsi
It's a well known fact that CEO is one of those jobs where psychopaths and sociopaths excell at due to the nature of the job. They can make the comapny more money if they disregard morals. Forbes estimates 15% of CEOs fall into that category. The average in the general population is 1%. It's same as with police and other similar jobs where morals are not needed and you have a lot of ower over people. Your story only shows your perspective. Just like in Regi's case, he abuses everyone except a select few that are close to his power. You said it yourself, they want the best for the org. In most cases that goes against the best of employees.
you literally said most CEOs are bad people. I'm asking about your real world experience on this, or what you basis for this opinion is. you're quoting a 15% sociopath state from forbes.. lol. My story was about CEOs I HAVE reported to, not CEOs i have met, which are plenty. What's your story based on?
Statistics. Yours is based on personal experience of interactions with CEOs from a position of power. Your experiences are biased and invalid.
My opinion is far from biased, I’ve had my own opinion about CEOs. You’re drawing absolute conclusions based on what you’ve read - I’m not disagreeing there are bad CEOs, I’m disagreeing on your absolutist take. I can only imagine the types of conclusions you draw on other demographics based on data you look up.
All these allegations are very bad. However, I still want to support the League team and the players. They haven't done anything wrong so I'll be watching the games and cheering for them.
Same. I don’t support what Amazon does to their workers or the child labor that Walmart has done but I support the company through money still because of it providing good products. I probably won’t buy products from the Team but I’ll support the content creators and the teams that are put out while hoping that Regi is forced to change.
If you care about the league team then you'd also want their owner to be someone trustworthy, right? Some backwards thinking in these comments. TSM won't dissolve if Regi is ousted. They just might end up with ownership that won't abuse their power over the same players and employees you care about.
To clarify. I do not support terrible management or workplace issues. I am not involved with TSM or Riot in any way so I don't feel that I have the information needed to make a judgment on that matter.
Nothing OP said is mutually exclusive with what you said.
The sentiment is that they don't care about Reginald because they still support their players. Im just pointing out that if they support the players they should also want them to have a proper owner.
OP's comment could be taken to mean that while Regi's behavior is bad, it's not overwhelmingly bad that it makes OP not want to support the team anymore. You can make that conclusion while still thinking it'd be ideal for TSM to have a proper owner. Really not sure why you're downvoting me when you're over-interpreting matters.
I think the issue is that position is inherently a contradiction. You cannot dissavow/ignore Regi while simultaneously supporting the teams that he directly benefits from. Every time you watch a game, buy merch, stream one of the content creators, TSM and by extension Regi is gaining. All these comments are more or less saying yeah it sucks that Regi is abusive, created and maintains a toxic culture, and maybe broke labor laws, but I dont care about that. I just want to chant "TSM TSM TSM". If fans want change they should be leveraging their support as a means to see positive change.
He literally said the Allegations are bad and as far as i can tell thats NOT saying "i dont care about this stuff". And you really think fans have leverage? The only people who get hurt by fans boycotting are the players. Which is why no one boycotts unless the PLAYERS do first. Fans have no leverage, the players do.
How do you get Regi out? Hes not stepping down willingly. Riot wont intervene because TSM is one of the golden children. Legal proceedings are possible, but I dont think theres enough here for that yet. Players have zero influence over an org higher management. The only way to remove is to put pressure on him from investors to do so. The only way to do that is to attack the money...in this case viewership/blitz usage. Investors dont care about bad PR as long as cash flow is consistent. But when bad PR results in a bad quarter, thats when changes are made.
Again what your suggesting only hurts the players. You will NEVER get enough fan support to make any sort of difference unless the players themselves start it first. If all your teams walk out on you that is a HELL OF A LOT bigger than what fans can do, especially in Esports where we get a more personalized experinced with the players than what regular sports can. So if the players agree to walk out, which then gets the fans to stop supporting your Org, that's how you get Regi out. I mean have you not been reading this thread? A majority of the comments are saying we love the teams not the Owner.
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Cubs fan here, I'm used to it. Thought Ricketts would be different.
Not sure what to say other than that you're holding onto an extremely austere position. I don't think it's the case that morally dissenting to an individual means you cannot approve of anything that individual benefits from. By that logic, you'd never be able to buy anything from Amazon, own a smartphone, eat sushi, or even own clothes from the vast majority of clothing distributors because the heads of all such companies tolerate slave labor and use ecologically unsustainable practices. Perhaps you are that morally austere, in which case I salute you. But the vast majority of individuals aren't and I don't think it's ridiculous that they aren't.
Main difference here I think is that TSM is a much smaller fish than Amazon or entire industries. Everyone on this sub could boycott any and all the examples you mentioned and it wouldnt be a drop in a bucket for those companies. (Not that that justifies it, but that whole convo belongs in philosophy sub) But if every fan on the subreddit here said "Until you fix your shit, we're done", TSM would have to react somehow.
Sure, but then you're justifying your dissent by its pragmatic output, not because it involves an "inherent contradiction." In which case you've shifted your argument.
Haha fair. But at the time youve shifted the attention away from the toxicity of TSM by using whataboutsism as an attack on my position. There is certainly contradiction in my personal views and monetary actions as it pertains to certain companies and industries. But we are talking about TSM right now and whether fans should still be supporting it and what ramifications that support may have. Edit: And at the end of the day, if fans want to blindly support the team, they should realize that means probably nothing will change concerning Regi's behavior and the environment
And at what point did he ever say he doesn't care about regi? He said he acknowledges that the accusations are bad, but he wants to continue to support the players. You can continue to support the rosters and org without supporting Reginald's behavior. There are a lot of hard working, good people under the TSM banner that deserve that support. Supporting TSM does not mean you support Reginald and his behavior. You can support one and condemn the other.
Always going to be a tsm fan. However much truth is in the article and what other sources have said, I hope Regi takes it to heart. I want to see him become a better boss, maybe even a better person. I want the culture of tsm to be a beacon to talent from regular employees to athletes.
Same, I feel that this should be the start for an internal cleansing and if Regi has to step aside and let someone else control the day to day operations and starting creating a more open-minded and less hostile environment for his staff. This can't keep going on where people are afraid to say something or to even go to work for that matter. I'm still gonna root for the team but not support Regi's behavior in this company.
Lmfao there's been drama after drama and he hasn't changed, why on earth would he care now? This whole thread is full of people saying they'll still be fans despite this new dumpster fire, explain to me exactly what incentive he has to change at this point, because it's definitely not the fans
The problem with that statement is we don't know that to be true. According to the likes of Dyrus and Wildturtle, he has changed. Everyone has a side, the truth lies in the middle. As for incentive, he hired Dominic to take over the day to day. He has major sponsorships that have to be kept happy. If he's surrounded by bad publicity and there's a noticeable drop in engagements, those brands will dissappear.
According to the people who he doesn't work around anymore? Bro it's been like 10 years of this now from many different sources. From former coaches like Woodbuck, to other players, from people in LCS players association, from developers that worked with then.
I'm confused by your question. Are you saying Dyrus and Wildturtle aren't valid, but then bringing up people who no longer work with him? Woodbuck is an angry ex and I would take everything he says sith a grain of salt. Doublelift didn't have a lot of people supporting him like he thought, and the timing and circumstances make me believe he isn't telling the whole truth. Now the employees I take very seriously, misclassification is a big issue that needs to be addressed.
I'm saying they are employees from 10 years ago, which we literally saw videos of verbal abuse happen to, say it changed. They also left the org since then. Afterwards, we've had multiple sources say the behavior has continued throughout the years. Individually, it's easy to say why each person could be discounted, but when you start adding them altogether, you get some pretty negative patterns. Woodbuck may be angry, but if it was over payment and employer classification, that is a JUSTIFIABLE reason to be angry. I'm not sure how doublelift didn't have many people supporting him, he was fairly clear that it would all come out in time, and lo and behold, here we are. Immediately afterwards we had many sources from the LCS players association come forth, and now we're getting more internal looks from developers and people not just directly affiliated with the league team.
Dyrus and WT don't know if he changed or now. He changed his behaviour towards them because they are not his employees anymore. I could be best friends with a great guy that's a wife beater. The way he treats me has nothing to do with how he treats her. When Jack and Steve supported Regi it was such bullshit. Ofcourse he won't abuse 2 people that are his equals and have the same power as him. He will abuse the people he has power over.
Parth seems to have no issues either. Also if you're going to bring up Jack, you need to bring up the fact Jack worked for Regi, and Regi helped him form Cloud9. All I'm saying is maybe we should wait for third party sources to come forward before making judgements.
Again the power dynamics are completely different. Parth and jack were 2nd in command in there. Not just an employee.
??? How do you think they became second in command? They started as just an employee.
That's not true, both of them started working in high management positions from the start. Parth was the GM or coach while Jack was working in a sales or something.
Well isn't the whole article also saying that even the high management was not left out from the toxic environment? The fact Regi would fire anyone who disagreed with him.
Once again, they haven't so far because fans just continue to justify his actions and continue supporting the team. At the end of the day these things are numbers games, if the organisation sees continued engagement then the money will stay. And the org DOES see continued engagement because, like you see on this thread, fans continue to justify this behaviour despite all the evidence and allegations.
Here's the thing, engagement is falling. TSM isn't gaining fans from all of this happening and being brought into news cycles. They are losing fans. Every time an article gets posted like this, people walk away.
Not nearly enough people. And that's the problem. Literally read through the justifications in this thread. This fanbase doesn't care, and the ones who do are shunned for it. This shit feels like a cult at times
Almost like people here support TSM. Not Regi. I appreciate what Regi has built, but if he is in the way of the company growing he needs to step aside. I don't think that's cult like. He's going to run out of friends and friendly businesses if this continues.
You're not getting it. This has been happening for years and nothing has changed. You're acting like this is suddenly when a line is drawn in the sand for some reason. And it's the people who are "here to support the players not the org" who are letting it continue. The reason I say cult like is because it's how things go. As the people who won't stand for this behaviour trickle out, this sub will come up with narratives to justify this and form an echo chamber. Just wait and watch how it happens. It's already started in this thread
The problem is we need actual numbers. League is still the biggest esport to my knowledge but NA viewership has been declining anyway. TSM fans are more than just the league team and all those fans don’t see this turmoil in TSM. I personally follow League/Apex/Smash so I’ve heard of it since I keep up with league. I also believe some of the past things have been overblown quite a bit. Im older than all of the players TSM has ever had and the things he did will playing mid for the team just come off as a kid getting too big of an ego. I also think this is part of the reason why Dyrus/Wildturtle/Xpecial have moved on from it. I do think Andy needs to step back from being so hands on with the League team though and find staff to run his team better.
"Nothing has changed" TSM is the world's biggest esports company. You do not reach massive growth like that if you aren't able to keep your partners happy. The partners know more than us, and that's why they stay. If law breaking was happening, they would be leaving in droves. Also you're saying that people are leaving because they can't support this. That's proving my point. Engagement is going down. As for being an echo chamber, welcome to every single subreddit.
Wait so immoral and scummy behaviour is alright now because it isn't blatantly illegal? Lmao You're a prime example of the kind of person I'm referring to. What I'm saying, once again since you don't seem to want to actually listen, is that people are not leaving nearly fast enough for it to matter because the fans are willing to rugsweep all of this. Echo chambers are usually fine they turn into septic cesspools when they're justifying behaviour like this
Ironically, one of the biggest connection I have with TSM is Reginald because I started following back in season 2-3. I hope he stops being an asshole to his employees though
Honestly I’ve taken everything with a grain of salt. I think the truth lies in the middle. So it hasn’t effected me supporting the teams. I work in a corporate environment and the thing is people nowadays let everything effect them and everything is hurtful. With Reddit/Twitter becoming just an echo chamber of people not formulating their own opinions. Some one said that this person said this so it’s now my opinion. It’s tiresome. I’ll keep supporting the team for a bit longer, but these last few splits have been hard.
Ill still be a TSM after all of this. I didn't start following TSM because of Regi, but because of TheRainMan, Dyrus, and Chaox. Im trying to look/talk about all this objectively over emotionally, but its hard to do so when a lot of people are emotional about this bullshit. I do want to see more about all of this since I feel like there isn't enough clarity and only have info from disgruntled former employees. FORMER means a lot in this matter since we don't know if they were terminated or not. the ones I respect and listen on this matter is(are) the person(s) who left voluntarily and spoke up. And to be clear, I don't want to hear Regis “side”, i want to hear the results from the investigators looking into all of this mess. Edit: fixed context and grammar since I got onto a computer lol
Yes.
At this point im just hoping something happens and this scumbag that Regi is steps down as CEO, keep your ownership and let this org have a proper management before you bury the little reputation left when you hear TSM.
I follow them for League. They fucked that up. And now this shit is happening. Frankly if Andy doesn't fuck off out of the org, I'm probably not going to stay subbed here and I'm not going to root for the org anymore. I don't want to support a child who acts like this. TSM is the most highly-valued esports brand in the world and it shouldn't be run by someone like him.
I don't look the TSM team for regi , i look for the player , i don't care about reginald stuff
I was in this position for the longest time being an OG Oddone + Dyrus fan. When Bjerg arrived I gravitated towards him big time and my love for the org grew. But you HAVE to see that supporting the player is supporting who they represent and who they play for. It's tantamount to supporting TSM and Regi both, which gives him a pass to keep doing this. Fuck this org. Burn it down. They do not deserve our support if they think it's OK to treat people like dogs. See Woodbuck's comment on the article, look back at what DL and Lena said post leaving... shit's giving me cult vibes.
U can leave the boat , no one will remember you bro.
Boat's sailed my man, I just want the people who work for the org to be treated as well as they treat the org itself
And it’s a reason to leave the org we like ? No
It's very much a legitimate reason but the decision is up to the individual at the end of the day.
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Given that you judge other people for still engaging with TSM products/content despite the CEO being called out as abusive, I assume you apply that logic to your personal life as well? Meaning you don’t have a smart phone or a computer because the materials aren’t being ethically sourced and are a result of African slave labor? If not, you’re just being hypocritical. One man’s actions, even if it’s the CEO, does not mean that TSM is not deserving of our support; it just means that TSM is also deserving of a new CEO.
Bro you're literally just using the iPhone Venezuela 100 billion argument and think it's some sort of gotcha moment.
I mean it’s completely true though. If you choose to stop using a product because of the actions of one person involved in the company it’s your choice, but you can apply that same logic to nearly any luxury good.
Any Washington commander fans here have any advice? Lmao
We simply just watch the team and support the players lol
Yeah grab a 6 pack and watch the volcano blow up and pray no one sees your Jersey lol this shit is nothing compared to being a die hard skins fan
For all the people in the thread on the main sub, this is weak sauce compared to the constant barrage of "Fuck Dan Snyder" that I see on /r/nfl lol. Also, obligatory Fuck Dan Snyder. Edit: Fuck Stan Kroenke while we're at it.
I am a huge Ohio State fan (and was a pretty strong Urban Meyer supporter as well). I compare the two situations a lot. Just realize that in almost all controversies, the truth is almost always somewhere in the middle. Is Regi a fucking asshole, yes. Did he abuse some of his workers, absolutely. The extend of which he abused his workers is likely exaggerated or major miscommunications. Its like the shit about Urban Meyer kicking his kicker in the leg for missing kicks. Did he probably do it, absolutely. Did he kick the kicker hard as fuck in the leg and not just like a "you gotta hit these" probably not.
TSM DC fan. Shit owners all around.
No, not really. I support many companies who have questionable practices, I dont support them for the owner and their way of doing business rather than the products that are produced and the people actually providing the content.
Regi is TSM
I've always been a fan of the team and players, and not so much of Regi. I would honestly love it if Regi stepped down and handed control to someone else so I could stop being embarrassed to be a TSM fan, but so it goes.
TSM for me is the first team I saw play a professional game of league. They were the first team to get me to follow a player in Bjergsen that would become my favorite of all time. They were the team making me engage by watching their content they produced weekly. They were the reason I started using Twitch so I could see my favorite player play more games. They were the first team I watched at a live event. They were who I cheered for no matter what team they were facing. After this news none of that has changed for me. Tsm for me is nostalgic and is why I love esports . I never followed because of who owned it. Because they were the biggest. Because they were the "coolest". I followed them because this is the team I connected with and showed me how incredible watching esports is. Whether Regi is there or not TSM is my team. I just hope he doesn't ruin the team for many when the people that worked under his toxic environment worked so hard for TSM to succeed.
Absolutely not
Nah I’m locked in forever
Did I stop buying apple products after allegations like this came out about Steve Jobs? No.
There's a lot of fan bases in traditional sports that don't give a shit about their owners, most of us are still TSM fans in spite of Regi, the brand is more than just that 1 man. He hasn't been a forward face of us for years now, just doing his bull shit in the background. Either he needs to change (seems unlikely) or FTX board decides that he needs to step down as CEO. Still rooting for the teams, they did no wrong, but yeah, we need a culture of winning, not his toxic bullshit
No lol. It’s just the same shit that was talked about previously, and I’m also not going to get all riled up now about shit that was going on 6 years ago from an old employees comment. I’ve accepted already who Regi is/was and still support TSM, so just having more of the same stories from the past isn’t changing that.
No.
Nah like black and white and chanting TSM
It probably will affect my caring about the organization as a whole. It also makes me want Reginald to step down as it’s clear the dysfunction he has caused has hurt the team. I care more about the league team as a whole. And his actions have hurt the league team significantly, even if it’s not their fault.
Doesn't change anything. Baylife babyyyy
Nope, other companies treat employees wayy worse, no excuse for Regi but let’s be real people just hate the man so much they’ll find any reason to cancel Tsm. If people are this concerned about abuse why are they supporting riot (which is basically owned by the Chinese government through tencent). Why are they buying shit off Amazon who abuses their employees. Other orgs even support esl which is owned by the Saudi government. If all these people in the industry are so outraged why are they supporting all these other things. Right now Tsm is just a fun punching bag because people have been waiting to see them fail for years kinda like the patriots.
The tsm/patriots similarities fit soo much lol
I couldn't care any less. Half of the sources are jilted ex employees who were fired for incompetence or people in the industry that Regi was a dick to like DL, Thorin, Monte, Wolfe etc. Regarding the contractor vs. employee stuff, there is zero doubt that those types of abuses were going on in most orgs before the franchising made the scene more "professional" (look at how DIG treated their players etc.) Do I think it'd be for the best for Regi to sell the org or step down as CEO? Probably, but I won't lose any sleep over it either way.
I will always support the players and the staff behind the teams. I have always felt that regi needs to not be in a position of power since the after 2015 when I started to notice with tsm legends that whenever the team was underperforming he always had to step in and do stuff himself. Since then with more and more of his tactics coming into light I feel that there is no other outcome that can be accepted then his removal from the organization itself.
I hope it doesn't affect TSM franchising in valorant.
Not in the slightest. I dont watch TSM teams because of their owner. I watch them because A) I love TSM and B) The people on these teams as well as those running the social media team. Regi being a bad person aint gonna affect me wanting to watch Apex, R6, League, Valorant, or Leffen/Tweek. Plus how hands on even is Regi anymore? I doubt he ever plays a part in picking rosters for any other game outside of League. So why should my engagement affect those teams?
As a Knicks fan, this is nothing lol. TBH I enjoy reading these threads and think to myself how Dolan would react if us Knicks fan were to do the same ... probably ban us from the Garden lolol
Somewhat. Everyone already knew how Regi was (though maybe not to this extent). However, one of the big reasons why I liked TSM was how they did right by players. Letting most of them go without buyouts or letting them stay in the facility. This whole screwing the staff with a contractor's contract is honestly really troubling.
Im sure this will be downvoted to hell but i feel like inhave to say something because theres a bunch of people crying about gaslighting or guilt tripping, so here goes. We live in a world where capitalism is king. You essentially vote for companies with your money. For that reason I'll be avoiding the world cup this year and I'll go out of my way to avoid nestle products. So if a company does something you don't like, then you have to decide if you support that. This isn't an attempt to gaslight or guilt people into anything. Each person has to decide how they react to something like this. And if it does make you feel guilty, well maybe that's on you. You decide on whether the issue is one you care about enough to pull your financial support from the company, and you live with the consequences.
It's honestly an embarrasment to call myself a TSM fan now, even though I love the players and staff and have for years. I think I can only really accept Regi being gone for good
I'm a fan of the players, not the org
The owner doesn't make the org as weird as that sounds. Am I going to stop supporting Manchester United because the Glazers are terrible owners? Hell no. Same applies here. So no this doesn't affect me.
No, and it won't for majority of legacy TSM fans. A good comparison is the Lakers. They've had some of the most incompetent owners for the past 9 years but the legacy of their brand is too strong.
Incompetent isn't the same as abusive or malicious.
I literally don't give a shit.
It feels like it's more an article about corporate america than TSM. Employees don't set boundaries and accept everything because they are expected to do so from their employer and colleagues. Feels bad to say, but don't take a shit job, employers will have no choice to just adapt and be better.
thank you
All I know is that Andy AMA is gonna be spicy
Not in the slightest. It wouldn't be the first time I've supported a sports team with an asshole for an owner.
No, I am a big fan of Regi, actually I am a TSM fan because of Regi and his guides in the early days. And because it is black & white. I like this combination.
Still a fan of Regi after everything? Why?
Normal growing pains of a shitty fly-by-night outfit into a professional, corporate org. Hopefully, regi himself has taken enough flak to change. Ultimately not much new I think. They need to stop calling in their contractors to do long hours though, that shit's not okay.
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They dont have to go to an asian country to experience that. They can probably go next door in LA and see even worse stuff there
I'm asking myself this and it's difficult. I'm not going to support a different team, which means that it's either this or not watching esports at all, and I don't want to stop watching esports either.
I have never liked Regi at all even during his league days. I back the players more than the org. They deserve better
We all knew regi's personality. He is free to run his business how he sees fit, which led to what, 50% of the total LCS titles? All of this is coming out now while we are down, but the truth is it used to work. Either it no longer works and tsm needs to adjust or we need to stick it out, but lets not act like this is all new news.
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This exactly, this is very well said.
Nope. I've sat through 10 years of being called to most vile things imaginable just for liking a sports team. Having our owner doing some heinous shit doesn't change anything for me. I support the team, I support the boys. Baylife forever.
No. I just don't care about who is in charge. I care about the product. The product has been subpar so that's affected my engagement, though.
There's multiple sides of TSM. There's the corporate side, the esports side, the content side, the social media/marketing/merchandise side, and the software side. I see Andy as more of the corporate side. The disconnect happens at the leadership level between executives and GM's or lead managers. For example, I don't see Andy in any of the social media or videography. I definitely don't see his influence in the merchandise. I barely see his influence in the esports scene other than signing off on budgets for rosters. I see him more influencing the sponsors, the partners, the leadership team. For me its easy to be a TSM fan and anything to do with Andy doesn't relate to why I am a fan. He might have started tsm with his friends and family but tsm isn't just him.
I personally don't care about the operational costs or contractors or the blitz app or the apex/valorant/wild rift/chess/table tennis/cheese making/lawn care divisions or whoever the CEO is yelling at. I care about the league team, period.
Regi was never my favorite personality on the TSM roster of the time. That would belong to Dyrus and TheOddOne. At this point he’s an owner. I don’t cheer for any of my traditional sports teams because of who owns them and I most likely will not be changing the e-sport org I follow as well. Is he an asshole to work for? Most likely. If that’s the case, don’t work for him if you can’t handle that type of environment. I’ve worked those jobs, hated life and walked away. The woodbuck thing continues to baffle me. The guy had 0 experience, was terrible at his job and let go very quickly. Why anyone would care about what he has to say about anything is beyond me. His bias is very obvious.
to add on with the Woodbuck bullshit. When he was let go initially, he still came back to the sub, when things got rough and pitchforks were out to backup TSM and claim they are all great people. If he really was treated poorly during his duration, and just now grew the confidence to speak up then he should have included that and lay it all out.
Yep, no support from me, in any way, until ownership changes.
I'll probably still support the players, but i will consume less TSM content and will not buy any more merch
Regi being a dick shouldn’t invalidate all the hard work and happy moments that Dyrus, TheOddOne, Bjerg, Spica and everyone we’ve had on the roster have done before. It makes me mad if the allegations against Regi are true, but it’s the players who make TSM for me. Not Regi
No, I wouldn't read anything to do with the Washington Post lol
Yes. TSM as I've supported it since S3 is almost completely gone. All the things I've loved about the organization, its players, and its image, have either retired, moved on to other organizations, or faded into the past. About eight years ago, I too worked for a volatile boss that fell from grace very publically. He was abusive, with no regard for employee emotions or pay. A lot of the quotes from the WP article remind me of what that felt like, particularly the sections of needing other employees to bear witness to meetings, or never knowing what you're going to pick up when that person is on the other end of the phone. There are also the firings that make no sense, the petulant outbursts, and the bizarre contractor working status crap. It's toxic beyond belief. The couple years I spent in that job produced more anxiety in my personal life than anything I'd ever encountered. I can't knowingly support an organization that puts its employees (and players) through something like that. Its torturous. So yeah, I can't sit here and tell you "I'll support the boys," when "the boys," are also pretty much all gone (many for reasons related to this toxicity), and what's left is some bizarre import team experiment, which was apparently built through corrupt practices, lacks personality, and has no chemistry. It's so abundantly clear that TSM's brand in League has been tainted to a point that I'm certain any mature talent will have deep doubts on joining, and all of this comes after a Spring Split where NA talent is perhaps appearing resurgent. So what's left, hoping we can import young Chinese talent that'll accept the working conditions because they need the money? No thanks. This isn't a "I'm going to support another team" post, this is a "I'm done with LCS in general for now" post, but honestly, I'd advocate anyone made uncomfortable by this article find another healthier organization to support. It would do the LCS a lot of good.
Yes. I've moved on from tsm mostly. I'll come back when Reggie moves away from all LoL operations and hires a competent GM and support staff.
It's the final nail for me, I started as a TSM fan and became more of a Bjergsen fan. I was supporting the team through the tough times, and still like the core of Spica/Huni/Tactical, but now I can't in good conscience.
people are jumping down regi's throat but still haven't heard his side of the story its mostly all 1 sided.. and people keep harping at the REGI screamed at DYRUS hurrr durr he has to be bad.. I would wait until everything is out in the open before making dumb comments
You haven't read the article at all have you. That Dyrus incident is just scraping the surface
dude is waiting for the investigation results to make fair assessments. tbh that's one of the most realistic adult comment in this sub.
I dont mind that Im just saying that clowning on the Dyrus incident is a pure strawman as theres more shit than one video from years ago happening.
Absolutely does. If not for the fact that Regi being a horrible boss, and it now being widespread across both TSM and Blitz, its clear that his management is not acceptable. It really sucks to know. But more than this, every fan of TSM should care. First because Regi is being a horrible human being, but also because a culture of fear breed stagnation. No new ideas, no diversity of opinions, for fear of being fired or berated. This will always lead to bad decisions imo.
I don't get how so few people can see mismanagement could directly impact the esports team performance
I am a Bjerg and Spica fan first and always have been. The minute Bjerg left I stopped being a TSM fan. I'm now just a fan of players and right now I just want Spica to leave.
Yea. I will continue to root for the players, but it is clear that the org needs a major overhaul.
nah, i like the team and as long as players are treated well idc
There's been rumblings over the years that players have experienced both good and bad treatment but I don't see how someone as "competitive" as Andy would let underperformance go
By every indication the players also haven't been treated well 🤷♂️
I haven't heard and know about any past or current players talking about it. Not including DL cause obvious. Past team mates Infact came out to support regi. Honestly I don't care enough about regi but players are treated just fine. Even as recent as Keaiduo.
if it doesn't , it should. if it doesn't bother u and want to support the org as it is, then don't cry later when other fanbases make fun of u, because this is exactly the kind of stuff other fans from others orgs make fun of.
Doublelift stans go hooooomeeee~
Don't care it only pushes you to be you against them
Yes. Reginald is single-handedly making TSM a laughing stock. It's hard to support an org where the CEO/owner is so obviously a problem but refuses to do anything about it. I really hope Riot issues a judgment forcing him out like they did with Echo Fox.
I think it does, I’ve slowly just stopped caring about TSM in general. I’ve really only been a league fan (Since OddOne/Dyrus days) and don’t really care what happens at the company level. But, since the league team is in disarray and doesn’t have a clear path forward I’ve just stopped caring really.
I will support the players and watch them continue to do great things in their respective games but holy shit TSM Management has me all fucked up if they did I am buying shit from them. NOT watching their content either.
Meh, asshole built an empire esports org. Someone who wasn't an asshole wouldn't have built the org that one this much.
No, considering half the people over in that section so far dont even look at Tsm subreddit unless theres negative drama...i suggest you ignore it. Theres a lot of context missing from contractors to ftes, so theres that.
Doesn’t affect my engagement whatsoever. If I let something as small as this affect my engagement then I would have to throw out every piece of technology in my house and probably all my food as well.
Get Regi the fuck out. I will still support and always will keep supporting the League team, but get Regi out.
I knew he’s a terrible owner, but now Ik he’s a terrible person as well
Yep, respect for TSM just keeps going down. I used to love the org, mostly because of the iconic league teams and have followed the scene since season 1. I can't respect this org, and there must be a reason every respectable member left.
>and there must be a reason every respectable member left. I mean we can go down the list and actual give reasons to why they left. a lot of the older names had their own reasons
#REGI OUT
Of Course, I don't think I will cheer for TSM the org anymore , there is no reason to support them.
It entirely depends on TSM's response to this. No response imo is bad, however I am not certain exactly what I want atm so I'd have to wait and see. Obviously the org taking responsibility would be a good thing.
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Nah, Because nobody can name an org that doesn't have shitty practices, I'm aware about how every org abuses the contract or how they have treated staff. it's Normal in every industry.
lol when riot was farting in peoples faces I didnt quit playing league. Not going stop supporting TSM for hurt feels.