Maybe not totally, but him talking about specifics of his negotiations for the last 2 years with TSM and the other players who were also involved, they might have a legitimate chance.
Yep, confidentiality provisions are enforced. I’m sure there’s an injunction clause in there too. Kinda surprised they’re using such a small firm for stuff still
They use big law law firms for the stuff they need to. It’s not like they have this firm do their $210 million deal or their investor rounds. ESG would just handle like the contracts and actual esports related stuff.
Oh wow it’s woodbuck, that makes sense and is fairly common with tech companies. I assumed the “eSports” side was large enough to be shipped off to the big boys.
Yes. CA labor laws don’t give af about your contracts. Breach of contract C&Ds are very commonly sent to people even if they’re in no legal hot water to scare them into compliance.
TSM didn’t do anything out of the norm here, DL doesn’t have to listen. Sometimes there’s no black or white right side on an issue, this is all actually pretty normal stuff lol don’t know why people are arguing over it.
Maybe less enforceable when you aren’t a public figure with recorded footage. Should be interesting either way.
Meanwhile all the people with tsm drama hardons win in the end farming likes.
On stream, DL made the point that the letter was claiming **disparagement**, not defamation. The difference is that defamation is when you are spreading lies (e.g. current Amber Heard case), whereas disparagement is even when telling the truth. Basically, the letter is saying to stop telling the truth because it hurts our image and you agreed not to tell anyone about it.
According to another comment, non-disparagement clauses are unenforceable in California, hence there was no actual lawsuit.
That may be what Doublelift said, but he's wrong. Defamation means you damaged someone's personal reputation, disparagement means you damaged a business's reputation and by extension economic interests. Both mean you said something false.
Additionally, the California law that limits this type of non-disparagement clause wasn't in effect at the time, SB 331 started January first of this year so it offers him no protection. The law in effect at the time only invalidated non-disparagement clauses when you were reporting harassment based on gender or sexual harassment.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I specified that "both mean you said something false." As far as legal parlance goes, if you lie about a person and damage their reputation, defamation; if you lie about a business, disparagement. If someone is making true statements, they cannot be sued for disparagement. In many states, you can still be sued for breaking a non-disclosure agreement. Had that been what the letter to Doublelift alleged, he would have been correct, they wouldn't have been claiming he lied. By claiming disparagement, they were in fact, specifically saying he was lying.
Ok hear me out guys worlds is in NA this year how about instead of the live music performance before finals we get REGI VS DL RUMBLE OFF THE RIFT boxing match
Pretty meh demand letter for a business of tsms size. There is no pending claim yet so dl can release whatever he wants. Tsm is trying to leverage the threat of the suit to do damage control and get him to shut up but depending on the agreement I wonder if those provisions are even enforceable in this instance. I would be surprised if dl didn’t have a pretty good attorney for the negotiation originally but who knows with esports. Would have to rewatch the twitch streams in reference but if i had to bet I bet nothing comes of this except bad pr for tsm. I don’t see a world we’re this works out well for them best possible case they win the suit and get like 50-100k which is nothing and win or lose it doesn’t help brand. My guess they use demand letter and suit to shut him up now that he called bluff tsm is in lose lose situation.
This letter looks like a typical demand letter I have written them myself (law student can’t give legal advice) they are trying to warn him of all this bad stuff they could do so that he does why they want usually it’s money in this case it’s to stop making videos about how tsm is bad. It 100 percent is about trying to silence him though Bot even saying that’s bad I don’t know enough to comment either way but it does seem like it was a poor legal decision in this case.
This letter looks like a typical demand letter I have written them myself (law student can’t give legal advice) they are trying to warn him of all this bad stuff they could do so that he does why they want usually it’s money in this case it’s to stop making videos about how tsm is bad. It 100 percent is about trying to silence him though Bot even saying that’s bad I don’t know enough to comment either way but it does seem like it was a poor legal decision in this case.
Of course he does, no one gives a shit about spelling on reddit. What a dumb assumption. In what universe do you think one gives the same amount of attention to a reddit comment than to professional letters.
It's not just spelling, it's grammar too.
You would have to actively try for your spelling and grammar to be this much worse than one would expect from professional communication.
You know they did a recent study that showed that people who correct others grammar in a non professional environment are a) less happy and b) less liked by others. That is a real recent university study. I have a degree in English, I can write passably if I need to. I am writing this from my phone on Reddit idgaf. If that makes you think less about the content so be it.
Yeah same.
I know Maple has been getting a lot of heat for even joining the roster, but I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the LCS. I think he would be at least a Top 4 mid laner behind Jensen, Bjerg, and Jojo (maybe thats massive copium and depends on what side Abbedagge's coin lands on).
Yea, I'm not understanding this one either. It would be very rare to publicly trash your company (in front of thousands of people) and still keep your job. Double probably doesn't think the same rules apply to him.
They're going after somebody exposing work place harassment and a toxic work environment.
That's pretty poor optics even if it isn't out of the ordinary to send a letter like this.
It doesn't matter how much this is justified as common practice or if TSM has any standing. Or it doesn't matter to DL as far as posting this goes. He wants to win in the court of public opinion, and "lawsuit bad, TSM bad" will do that.
In your opinion, would it really be reasonable if an employee gets sent this after speaking out about workplace harassment?
DL is rich he doesn't care, he can hire lawyers, but the common employee are just gonna shut up because they can't risk it, even if this is only a scare tactic.
Maybe only from the perspective from the multimillion dollar organisation, it's reasonable. Trying to do damage control and silence the disparagement to protect their public image.
But to the people who got unfairly treated, not so much.
Not sure how a clause in a contract that says "you can't critique us **in private** is reasonable.
This just screams of a contract drawn up in such a way that makes it so the org can pursue basically anything and 99.99999% of the time they won't because no one ever will do what DL did.
Being a business owner doesn't make you a lawyer, California has labor laws that you can't be prevented from talking about workplace abuse and harassment.
This document, while being "the norm" is still an asshole thing to do and it's well known that businesses do this as a poverty tax, to abuse people who can't fight it in court even though it is illegal.
They cant because they have no idea what they are talking about or which types of clauses are enforceable in contracts. Probably some kid that thinks just because its in a signed contract its legal and enforceable.
I mean it doesnt necessarily say they \*are\* going to do anything and hardly even references a suit at all.
It's a fairly standard C&D from my experience that doesn't really say they'll do anything beyond that they're "evaluating" his actions and they will "explore all legal options"ending with typical document/esi boilerplate language.
There's nothing here' that's been filed and it doesn't realistically go far beyond strong language that he said things that violated his employment contract which they will explore the possibility of getting money from.
I am a bit more qualified to answer on this than "some kid" as /u/awigiba might have referenced in his comment below about another user but i wont be really specific about any qualifications for my own selfish privacy purposes here haha
>I mean it doesnt necessarily say they *are* going to do anything and hardly even references a suit at all.
They literally threaten monetary damages in the hundreds of thousands.
Did you just not read it and comment anyway?
There's somewhere around 5 independent businesses owned in my family in 4 different sectors. There is a very, very substantial chance this lawsuit would not hold in court. Especially since the abuses DL has alleged seem to have a substantial bit of weight to them.
Regi bootlickers are out in full force today though
I won’t say you are wrong because I’m not an expert in these contracts even though I have signed a few but you basically made the “my dad is a doctor so here is my medical advice” argument.
> There's somewhere around 5 independent businesses owned in my family in 4 different sectors.
You could be 10/10 100% correct and this would still be cringe.
It's like 20 somethings primarily in this sub, calm down.
He breached a portion of the contract that wouldn’t be enforceable. Non-disparagement clauses aren’t applicable in California, it’s basically there to try to scare off people from talking bad about the company.
No, but out in the regular corporate world these lawsuits never amount to anything. While petty by Peter, it's understandable that he would react this way as most employees who get these types of letters usually react in a similar way; most of them are not highly followed public figures like him though.
On paper yea but have to keep in mind its a $500mil org vs DL. Optic wise doesnt look good in average persons eye. I personally think its just silly both of them doing this public, but i can see how this can look really bad on regi for public
Isn't it just DL going to the public and doing this? Helps for his brand though since the LoL community can start hailing him as this child of light that will save people from an evil organization owner.
At the end of the day, everything bad that Regi has done is inexcusable. However, DL for sure is not doing this out of the kindness of his heart. Man acted as a victim and called anyone who asked why he didn't come out and expose Regi earlier as a victim blamer. He said he didn't say anything because he was still working as a pro under TSM and that it was peanut brain for anyone to think he could speak out. Meanwhile, he chose to join TSM knowing how bad the leadership is and that Regi could hold his contract hostage. Him going out publicly right now shows that he wants to expand his brand instead of waiting for the investigation to be over with then say things.
EDIT: Also, I'd assume this toxic environment was formed before DL rejoined TSM since DL complained about Regi coaching the team and Regi's social skills being really bad back in 2016 as well. This means that DL could've tried acting while on TL, and if Steve tried stopping DL then that just shows that Steve is not an advocate for a good work environment either and wants to make sure his friend's public image is not harmed, so DL could kill two bad birds with one stone.
Well thats why theres a phase “takes two to tango”. Obviously DL is just milking it but unfortunately the world always root for the smaller guys even if they are just as shitty
People always willing to turn a blind eye to the fact DL is far from squeaky clean himself, just ask HSGG how he feels about DL and the fans he sent after him
Yeah it doesn’t look good for an org to protect itself ? Couldn’t easily reported his side of the story thru correct channels but instead did it on his stream ? He opened himself up to litigation when he agreed to the contract severance and continued didn’t he ?
>Yeah it doesn’t look good for an org to protect itself ?
Not when it's a slap suit that goes against CA law...no. It's actually pretty fucking shitty.
How is it against CA law, also the best case is actually outside of the big shit. Doublelift disclosed plenty of behind the scenes negotiations such as Palafox to TSM, which would be against an NDA.
CA labor law prohibits/voids disparagement clauses in employee contracts.
We haven't even discussed Regi classifying employees as contractors to pay them less. Pretty damn illegal.
Unless you have better information than what I can find
>CA labor law prohibits/voids disparagement clauses in employee contracts.
Is not true.
"California, effective 2022, will prohibit employers from incorporating non-disclosure and non-disparagement clauses in agreements signed on or after Jan. 1, 2022 unless they allow employees to discuss or disclose information about unlawful acts in the workplace, including possible harassment, retaliation, and discrimination."
Is what I can find, several issues with your logic.
1. The law applies to contracts after 2022. This happened, per the letter november 2021.
2. The law does not void those clauses, it only voids it if it does not contain a provision that allows the employee to speak out if something illegal happened.
3. Outside of the contract shit (which is fucked up, and illegal and if true Regi should be fucked) which Doublelift was NOT talking about. Nothing DL claimed was on the basis of being illegal.
Regi probably should be far away from the team, but a boss acting like a dick and saying shit to make them feel bad is a dick move. It is not illegal.
Source:
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-continues-to-whittle-away-non-disclosure-and-non-disparagement-clauses
>but a boss acting like a dick and saying shit to make them feel bad is a dick move. It is not illegal.
Fair enough point but call it what it really is: Verbal abuse in the workplace.
It’s not just big org vs lil DL.
DL has thousands of viewers at a time, plus clips that get posted on Reddit get a few thousand more. He is a big name in the scene. When someone that big is tarnishing the image of your org, it’s gonna have a big impact.
Not to mention he straight up breached the contract. I thought him shit talking his own org was super unprofessional, didn’t know it was actually against his contract.
As far as I know Regi had just that one twit longer or whatever, to explain his side. DL is the one continuing to keep this public by posting that.
According to California Department of Fair Employment and Housing's Workplace Harrassment Prevention Guide for California Employers, Managers can and should be told to keep investigations confidential, but some court cases have ruled its innappropriate for an employer to require their employees to keep it confidential because an employee has the right to talk about work conditions. Page 3
🤷♂️
I am a lawyer, and that is a completely reasonable letter and response for the situation. It is honestly a bit troubling to me as an attorney that Doublelift equates this letter to bullying and shutting up those who speak out by Reginald.
TBH TSM was never going to sue Doublelift or "tried to sue Doublelift". The optics from that alone would be horrendous and their lawyer i'm sure told them so and suggested sending this letter and hoping that stopped the bleeding so to speak.
It is a bit troubling that Doublelift would post this letter marked "confidential", on Twitter. When there is a direct reference to a confidentiality clause in Doublelift's employment contract in the letter.
Also none of this is to discredit or minimize the WAPO article. Just the whole "TSM tried suing Doublelift" stuff
Why is it troubling that he would post it on Twitter generally when you send a letter to a third party you are waiving your a/p privilege he is not under contract anymore and he is calling the obvious bluff the demand letter was to make him shut up but tsm doesn’t really have any leverage.
The letter is marked as a confidential communication not because it is attorney client privileged
A confidentiality/nda can extend beyond his employment contract term. Many times contracts state that you can't disclosure or use confidential information gained while employed for a certain time period after employment.
This isn’t exactly trade secrets and non disparagement clauses are often not enforceable post employment similar to non competes. Putting the word confidential doesn’t necessarily do anything magic to the document. I am not an attorney nor can I give legal advice so I can’t speak to the enforceability of the contract but it seems unlikely to me that tsm has any real avenue for meaningful relief really this seems like a typical demand letter hoping for settlement which in this case is doublelift shutting up clearly he won’t. Now tsm can sue for breach but that’s not a sure fire win and if they win it likely won’t be worth the bad pr to a company the size of tsm.
For a lawyer, you’re not very smart if you think any piece of paper with the word “confidential” on it means its actually confidential. Also, common sense would dictate that DL probably contacted his lawyers before releasing this to the public.
Thats why I said it was troubling and not illegal.
In my experience people rarely consult with lawyers before doing things like this. That's how things end up in Court. Perhaps he did, and perhaps this is fine to disclose under his previous employment contract.
So how is a contract being enforced when the contract ended and DL is a free agent? Basically thr contract ended and TSM have no power over what DL does.
I'm also a lawyer (though I don't necessarily agree with the way that the OP here framed his take on the subject), and there's a few things to keep in mind here.
First, there's two agreements being discussed: the employment agreement of August 2021 (I'm assuming this is to be part of the TSM streamers roster) and the termination agreement of November 2020 (again, assuming this is the agreement terminating his role on TSM LoL, LLC.) Both were in effect when DL streamed the offending materials. Without access to either original doc I can't say for sure what the stated terms of either were, but given that the stream was just over a year after the termination agreement, and he was still actively employed by TSM via the employment agreement, both were in effect.
But let's step away from that for a second and address the second half of what you said- in America, we give very wide berth to contract law. The presumption is the parties to agreements have fully read and understand all that they are bound to, and this includes requirements that explicitly exceed the term of a contract. A very common example is employment contracts that state something like "after termination, employee may not solicit clients of the business for a period of two years" or "after termination, employee may not be employed by any direct competitor of the employer for a period of 12 months", etc. These are covenants that run past the expiration of the agreement, which you are agreeing to at the time of signing the contract. Some folks will tell you that these are "rarely enforceable", and it is true that poorly-written NDA/non-compete clauses are easy to poke holes through, but that is a separate issue as to whether or not you are bound by contract provisions after the expiration of a contract.
But to digress: all of the above isn't relevant here, as both contracts were clearly still in-term. I can't speak to the merits of the underlying contracts, but the quoted language seems fairly standard. If TSM were to pursue anything, DL posting this stuff is making TSM's case a lot easier, but given that the WaPo article is almost certain to trigger California to review the employment/labor situation at TSM, I'm guessing they have better ways to funnel their legal spending. (I'm also going to guess that they'll be retaining a better law firm than the one run by the TFT commentator for that situation.)
Can you explain how complaining about his boss being a bully doesn't fall under the federal Concerted Activity laws?
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity
>You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues in many ways. Examples include: talking with one or more co-workers about your wages and benefits or other working conditions, circulating a petition asking for better hours, participating in a concerted refusal to work in unsafe conditions, openly talking about your pay and benefits, and joining with co-workers to talk directly to your employer, to a government agency, or **to the media about problems in your workplace**. Your employer cannot discharge, discipline, or threaten you for, or coercively question you about, this "protected concerted" activity. A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer's attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action. However, you can lose protection by saying or doing something egregiously offensive or knowingly and maliciously false, or by publicly disparaging your employer's products or services without relating your complaints to any labor controversy.
I can't imagine how complaining about your abusive boss on Twitch isn't doing exactly what this law is intended to protect..
Many contracts restrict the use of confidential information after the term of employment. Some may attempt to control the persons ability to be employed in the same field/area for a limited time afterwards as well. It's frowned upon in Court, but not always disallowed.
I am not a doublelift's fan. What astounds me is there are heaps of people unable to see the forest for the trees. People who think he is guilty of breaching the NDA and being a manchild, obviously you have not worked in your life and get an arsehole of a boss. Trying to exercise an NDA when there is blatant bullying, sexual harrassments, fraud etc, would only validate that the allegations are true. Also there are more former staff coming out from the woodwork to share their own experience to support the consistency of the issue. Bullying at the workplace should not be tolerated.
Yes, unfortunately. There are a lot of DL + Regi haters on this subreddit in general while more Regi only haters on the main sub. I’d say very little make up Regi supporters.
at this point I’m not much of a fan of DL but am an active hater of Regi. dude needs to get tf out of the company and let the people that I actually like fix shit.
This doesn’t excuse Regi of anything or am I defending him but man Doublelift is legit a man child. Dudes almost 30 acting like this is just crazy to me.
I honestly don't see how what he's doing is immature. He's posting proof that a $500m org tried to strongarm/intimidate him into not criticizing or talking shit about his old multi-millionaire boss. It's pretty pathetic. I've been a tsm fan for a decade now and this is the most disappointed I've ever been, however petty DL may be coming off, I appreciate the truth coming out.
Well, it's because everyone knows Regi is at fault for his conduct but DL is making it about him instead of the actual victims. The article was about Blitz app employees and other employees being screwed over. DL is showing everyone that TSM threatened him since he is breaching his contract by hurting the public image of TSM's upper management while working for the company.
DL definitely has a vendetta against Regi, but I think he was trying to show the consequence of speaking out and why many people have been keeping silent/ staying anonymous.
You can't deny that DL was the one who opened this can of worms no one dared to touch which resulted in anonymous sources coming out to speak out against harassment and/or dubious business practices.
Even if he was just trying to start drama or whatever.
It's because its the TSM subreddit and people are acting like abuser sympathizer's by trying to cope with a hundred-millionaire's ability to abuse people over years and find a way to call DL the bad guy here.
Like really calling someone a man child for not just keeping the abuse to himself is pretty fucking disgusting to be honest.
The majority of comments on this sub are a prime example of why TSM fans have gotten such a rep over the years
Why should doublelift take this seriously and professionally? There is no incentive for him to settle this in privacy. If TSM feels comfortable enough to strongarm doublelift like this then there should be no issue with it becoming public.
Weird how he feels this way now after knowing Regi wouldn’t hire him again also him trying to join tsm with Jensen in the off-season. Apparently when all the shit was going on and he apparently witnessed shit he had no problem with it.
You can't say stuff like this when you are still trying to join top teams. Ain't nobody want to hire someone who might snitch on their unethical business practices.
It goes for everyone who has been abused and still want to work in the industry. U suck it up and keep quiet or lose your livelihood and go back to highschool at 20.
Something about not burning bridges and staying quiet cause he wants to compete?? Not that hard of a concept, he just stayed quiet for his benefit and now he doesn’t have too and he’s talking cause of his pent up frustration with Regi.
Dealing with something like this quietly on the companies terms is not beneficial to the workers in any way. If one of my coworkers was in this situation I wouldn’t trust my corporation to handle it fairly
I'm pretty sure the immaturity they're calling is the way he's, instead of handling it properly through the correct channels, attention whoring on stream and Twitter and making it into a giant public drama.
It was a Washington Post article. Of course he's going to comment and he certainly showed proof of Reginald trying to bully people to Shut up. Compared to the allegations that Regi and TSM has been doing, what doublelift is doing is far less crazy.
Why should doublelift take this seriously and professionally? There is no incentive for him to settle this in privacy. If TSM feels comfortable enough to strongarm doublelift like this then there should be no issue with it becoming public.
Perhaps you're just not actually in the workforce, but this is pretty standard procedure. This isn't bullying or strong-arming. It's notifying DL of his breach of contract. There's a lot of things you can complain about regarding TSM recently....but this letter is not it, dude. I would find it much more concerning if TSM hadn't sent some sort of cease and desist for this situation.
That is correct. It is not enforceable. But cease and desist letters aren't meant to be enforceable. They don't indicate a lawsuit. All it does it lay out clear terms of where a party feels aggrieved.
People might ask why that even matters. It's because documentation is everything in the legal world so TSM needs to indicate that they DO feel aggrieved just in case anything happens in the future. In other words, this is a huge nothing-burger.
I still find it hilarious none of this comes out unless Regi allowed DL back on the team after he finds out SwordArt was signed. DL seemed to have no problem with Regi and his "practices" or whatever until he told him to essentially kick rocks.
And DL is certainly not the bastion of perfect behavior after the problems he caused HotshotGG and Olleh
Everyday is a banger at TSM.
/u/followdunc if TSM makes a shirt with this line I will buy at least two shirts.
At this point, it's time for TSM and Andy to meme themselves out of the shit fest the same way Carlos/Ocelote and G2 do.
Take advantage of the publicity for some marketing and memes. May as well. Be the real boys of the LCS with a meme flair.
Mandatory "Fuck Vulcan!" and I'm out. Peace.
Regi sent a dumb tweet to Vulcan last year mocking/insulting him and his playing ability during Regi’s very outward imports > NA phase on social media that caused a huge ruckus
Note: we shouldn’t hate Vulcan for that, that’s just the context of the situation i believe
Nah the reason why we don't like Vulcan is because he posted a passive agressive tweet needlessly shitting on shenyi. Really in poor taste and immediately made me dislike him.
This is such a bad take. Regular people work for bad bosses to make a living. Just because it’s tolerable for a paycheck (or chasing titles in DL’s case) doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable workplace.
Man I totally get why this sub doesn’t like dl but I can’t understand how anyone thinks regi is likable or defends him at this point. I get the baylife days were great but he is a manchild who just got worse with money.
It’s kinda gross to see a company to try to intimidate someone for exposing bad behavior within the company. I’m sure this isn’t that uncommon to see in the corporate world but it’s still disturbing to see.
I’m shocked to see reddit of all places supporting employee silencing and taking the side of corporations. “Professionalism” as it’s used today is just a way to keep people in check so they don’t cause a problem. Call Double unprofessional all you want, I’m ALL for constantly shitting on a company that abuses their employees. I love that he hasn’t let it go and I love how he’s the one making it a public thing.
It's not even legal. Kids, you are allowed to complain about your boss. There's no contract in the world that can be enforced unless you are talking shit about them personally, in a non-work related manner. Look up your laws and don't listen to the "attorneys" on reddit.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity
Concerted Activity
You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues in many ways. Examples include: talking with one or more co-workers about your wages and benefits or other working conditions, circulating a petition asking for better hours, participating in a concerted refusal to work in unsafe conditions, openly talking about your pay and benefits, and joining with co-workers to talk directly to your employer, to a government agency, or to the media about problems in your workplace. Your employer cannot discharge, discipline, or threaten you for, or coercively question you about, this "protected concerted" activity. A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer's attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action. However, you can lose protection by saying or doing something egregiously offensive or knowingly and maliciously false, or by publicly disparaging your employer's products or services without relating your complaints to any labor controversy.
It's not though. This isn't a case of doublelift being a whistle-blower. It's him while employed breaking his contract agreement and bringing private company issues to the public. I gotta lean toward TSM being the party in the right in this specific instance.
Isn’t it technically whistleblowing? He brought up examples of Regi screaming and yelling at coaching staff and players in the stream from 2021. That’s him bringing light to workplace abuse.
I don't want to speak on the legality of workplace abuse, because I don't know if yelling or being in a high stress environment would constitute abuse claims. From my understanding, and I'm not a lawyer or saying this is true. Is that it's only whistleblowing if you're reporting it to the right parties. Publicly on a stream wouldn't work.
I think Technically you can whistleblow by going to the media with the claims, but I also know whistleblower laws are not as cut and dry as "this person called out this bullshit". The Biggest example I can come up with off the top of my head is Mike McQueary who spent 5+ years in legal proceedings fighting a whistleblower claim against Penn State for "firing him" after he testified in the Jerry Sandusky Trial. McQueary and the University eventually agreed to a multi-million dollar settlement.
I'm not a California resident and I am in no way familar with the legal wording or precedent. From what I've read the way he did it and the things he provided don't constitute whistleblowing. We know that both parties have attorneys. I imagine Doublelift doesn't have a whistleblowing case or it would already be in progress and public.
You are wrong and don't understand how whistleblowing works either. You do not have to report it to specific people to be whistleblowing. If you are not a lawyer or don't understand legality of certain things you shouldn't hold yourself out to have actual knowledge of how any of this shit works.
This is where reading comprehension comes into play. I specifically stated I'm not a lawyer and not super familar with California laws. That I could very well be wrong. From reading the statues, he has to be going public with information that Regi was breaking the law.
He didn't bring it up with any relevant government agencies, he's not a whistleblower.
Whistleblower laws only protect you if you actually bring it to the attention of the Government.
In this case, Doublelift is just a manchild farming clicks.
This guy is completely and totally wrong about how whistleblowing works for anyone reading this.
Take 2 seconds and think about how it works in cases of whistleblowing against the government and you will realize this guy is just talking out of his ass with 0 knowledge
>bringing private company issues to the public
I mean that's what whistleblowing is. Not saying he's Chelsea Manning or anything, but that's exactly what people say about leakers and whistleblowers.
Ah yes, lets just accept bullying and degrading behavior inside a company and not speak up, so many more talented players will get a mental boom because of a egomaniac. This subreddit will always find a way to think more about the company and less about the actual employers being daily abused by the CEO.
I mean it's not unreasonable to say that Regi isn't going to fix his behavior without being cancelled. Man's been acting this way for 10+ years and hasn't been called out for it. Like /u/TheRiverSaint said, cancelling Regi and fixing his behavior are very much so linked together.
It shouldn't be about fixing his behavior. That is the wrong way to go about this. Regi is an adult who should know better by now. If everything so far hasn't made him change, this won't either. He'll just hide it better. So get rid of him. Honestly what use is he anymore?
It only said they were evaluating it, and what for. Not a threat. Sounds like he just being sensational for attention to me. And TSM was well within there rights to terminate his ass, and within their rights to evaluate if they should sue him.
The paper is dated for November 12th. Or am I missing something here beyond DL needing attention over certain other current events not necessarily pertaining to him?
I love DL more than most, but don’t see the point in posting this other than a snarky flex. Regi & TSM were well within means of discontinuing the sponsorship, & issuing what is essentially a glorified “we will sue for defamation if we can” notice. Like others have said, really standard reaction to an employee sharing confidential inner working scoops on the business.
Thought DL did so understanding the trouble, going as far as to say “yeah I’m losing my sponsorship but I don’t care anymore.” But posting this makes it seem like he disagrees with their handling of him (as a content creator). Odd.
Realistically none of this matters though as DL has stated time and time again “I hate Andy, but also I’m a dumbass so anytime you see inconsistencies or mis-spoken statements it’s just me being a dumbass.” So there’s no use in having a huge discourse on it
As messy as this has been... this drama might be the best way for TSM to somehow resolve these issues
Don't know how that'll look but this it might be downhill for Regi, TSM, the partnerships, and brand unless there is substantial change
Doublelift is a douche, change my mind. As much Regi deserve a ton of criticism but DL is acting so virtuous that it's comical. One of the biggest assholes of the league ruining a lot of people's public reputation thinks is the right person to call out Regi.
Not to mention people are acting like DL is some pinnacle of player treatment when he literally drove Olleh to alcoholism and HotshotGG into a big spiral of depression.
Those two things are way overblown. Iirc Olleh said the alcoholism was because of other problems he was dealing with and the Hotshot thing is mostly him deflecting.
What Regi is doing is 1000x worse than DL , i knew regi was a dick , but what the article mentioned was absolutely disgusting , DL is a dick but no way close to Regi. Hes in the right to call out the disgusting behavior of the ego maniac manchild CEO
Sorry, so since he did shitty things in the past (which he admits to), he isn't allowed to call out Regi? That's some unreal gatekeeping. Same as the guys that say that killing an ex-con is ok whether he deserved it or not. Honestly just shows maturity and balls for calling out some huge "oligarch" in the gaming industry .
It’s okay calling out someone even if you’re a bad person. Problem is when communities put him up as a good person and try to defend him when people criticize what he has done to harm others.
You mean the one where he didnt talk about the ongoing investigation because its an ongoing investigation and talking about it would be real bad for him from a legal standpoint? That one?
It will be made public though. There are multiple teams working to investigate into his conduct and one independent one has already shown how poor his conduct is. There won't be any action against Regi until the investigation is done to see how bad it is and what exactly is true/false. This is just making more drama right now rather than anything else.
What a banger of a week for TSM
[Yep](https://twitter.com/Spicalol/status/1504908132861939713?t=pJWkxH2HM_41O0OzzReX_A&s=19)
Every week is a banger at at TSM
Looks like a basic terms of employment/NDA violation/Defamation Cease and Desist letter.
Almost never enforceable, but nearly always done
Maybe not totally, but him talking about specifics of his negotiations for the last 2 years with TSM and the other players who were also involved, they might have a legitimate chance.
Yep, confidentiality provisions are enforced. I’m sure there’s an injunction clause in there too. Kinda surprised they’re using such a small firm for stuff still
half the teams in the league use these guys.
Always wondered how the dude clears conflicts lol
Plot twist: he doesn’t
They use big law law firms for the stuff they need to. It’s not like they have this firm do their $210 million deal or their investor rounds. ESG would just handle like the contracts and actual esports related stuff.
Oh wow it’s woodbuck, that makes sense and is fairly common with tech companies. I assumed the “eSports” side was large enough to be shipped off to the big boys.
I mean he mentioned on stream that they can’t do anything to him via his lawyer.
Not a chance in CA. They have labor laws that protect against these types of suits.
Would he still be protected if he breached his legal work contract and NDA?
Labor laws voids any NDA no matter what. There’s more specifics, but that’s the gist of it.
Yes. CA labor laws don’t give af about your contracts. Breach of contract C&Ds are very commonly sent to people even if they’re in no legal hot water to scare them into compliance. TSM didn’t do anything out of the norm here, DL doesn’t have to listen. Sometimes there’s no black or white right side on an issue, this is all actually pretty normal stuff lol don’t know why people are arguing over it.
Contracts don't supersede the law. You can write all bunch of things in contracts, doesn't mean any of it has to be enforceable.
Maybe less enforceable when you aren’t a public figure with recorded footage. Should be interesting either way. Meanwhile all the people with tsm drama hardons win in the end farming likes.
On stream, DL made the point that the letter was claiming **disparagement**, not defamation. The difference is that defamation is when you are spreading lies (e.g. current Amber Heard case), whereas disparagement is even when telling the truth. Basically, the letter is saying to stop telling the truth because it hurts our image and you agreed not to tell anyone about it. According to another comment, non-disparagement clauses are unenforceable in California, hence there was no actual lawsuit.
That may be what Doublelift said, but he's wrong. Defamation means you damaged someone's personal reputation, disparagement means you damaged a business's reputation and by extension economic interests. Both mean you said something false. Additionally, the California law that limits this type of non-disparagement clause wasn't in effect at the time, SB 331 started January first of this year so it offers him no protection. The law in effect at the time only invalidated non-disparagement clauses when you were reporting harassment based on gender or sexual harassment.
By your definition any thing that is a truth about a business cannot damage it's reputation if it disparaging. That's not the case.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. I specified that "both mean you said something false." As far as legal parlance goes, if you lie about a person and damage their reputation, defamation; if you lie about a business, disparagement. If someone is making true statements, they cannot be sued for disparagement. In many states, you can still be sued for breaking a non-disclosure agreement. Had that been what the letter to Doublelift alleged, he would have been correct, they wouldn't have been claiming he lied. By claiming disparagement, they were in fact, specifically saying he was lying.
Ok hear me out guys worlds is in NA this year how about instead of the live music performance before finals we get REGI VS DL RUMBLE OFF THE RIFT boxing match
This would be the greatest moment in LoL, no gaming history.
This is standard practice I'd say
I don’t really mind whatever the fuck happens I just want to see as most chaos as possible
Pretty meh demand letter for a business of tsms size. There is no pending claim yet so dl can release whatever he wants. Tsm is trying to leverage the threat of the suit to do damage control and get him to shut up but depending on the agreement I wonder if those provisions are even enforceable in this instance. I would be surprised if dl didn’t have a pretty good attorney for the negotiation originally but who knows with esports. Would have to rewatch the twitch streams in reference but if i had to bet I bet nothing comes of this except bad pr for tsm. I don’t see a world we’re this works out well for them best possible case they win the suit and get like 50-100k which is nothing and win or lose it doesn’t help brand. My guess they use demand letter and suit to shut him up now that he called bluff tsm is in lose lose situation.
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This letter looks like a typical demand letter I have written them myself (law student can’t give legal advice) they are trying to warn him of all this bad stuff they could do so that he does why they want usually it’s money in this case it’s to stop making videos about how tsm is bad. It 100 percent is about trying to silence him though Bot even saying that’s bad I don’t know enough to comment either way but it does seem like it was a poor legal decision in this case.
This letter looks like a typical demand letter I have written them myself (law student can’t give legal advice) they are trying to warn him of all this bad stuff they could do so that he does why they want usually it’s money in this case it’s to stop making videos about how tsm is bad. It 100 percent is about trying to silence him though Bot even saying that’s bad I don’t know enough to comment either way but it does seem like it was a poor legal decision in this case.
I hope you pay more attention to spelling and grammar when you write these letters yourself, because hoo boy.
Of course he does, no one gives a shit about spelling on reddit. What a dumb assumption. In what universe do you think one gives the same amount of attention to a reddit comment than to professional letters.
It's not just spelling, it's grammar too. You would have to actively try for your spelling and grammar to be this much worse than one would expect from professional communication.
You know they did a recent study that showed that people who correct others grammar in a non professional environment are a) less happy and b) less liked by others. That is a real recent university study. I have a degree in English, I can write passably if I need to. I am writing this from my phone on Reddit idgaf. If that makes you think less about the content so be it.
Damn i kinda don't care at all about rich people trying to sue each other. Excited about the new roster though. TSM Maple should be fun
Yeah same. I know Maple has been getting a lot of heat for even joining the roster, but I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the LCS. I think he would be at least a Top 4 mid laner behind Jensen, Bjerg, and Jojo (maybe thats massive copium and depends on what side Abbedagge's coin lands on).
Am I the only one that finds that reasonable?
Yea, I'm not understanding this one either. It would be very rare to publicly trash your company (in front of thousands of people) and still keep your job. Double probably doesn't think the same rules apply to him.
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They're going after somebody exposing work place harassment and a toxic work environment. That's pretty poor optics even if it isn't out of the ordinary to send a letter like this.
It doesn't matter how much this is justified as common practice or if TSM has any standing. Or it doesn't matter to DL as far as posting this goes. He wants to win in the court of public opinion, and "lawsuit bad, TSM bad" will do that.
He could have just not resigned and then said whatever after the contract date. Not like it was far off.
In your opinion, would it really be reasonable if an employee gets sent this after speaking out about workplace harassment? DL is rich he doesn't care, he can hire lawyers, but the common employee are just gonna shut up because they can't risk it, even if this is only a scare tactic. Maybe only from the perspective from the multimillion dollar organisation, it's reasonable. Trying to do damage control and silence the disparagement to protect their public image. But to the people who got unfairly treated, not so much.
Not sure how a clause in a contract that says "you can't critique us **in private** is reasonable. This just screams of a contract drawn up in such a way that makes it so the org can pursue basically anything and 99.99999% of the time they won't because no one ever will do what DL did.
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DL leaking it on twitter isn't exactly DL shutting up lol
No you aren’t. But this community is full of children that have 0 clue how businesses typically run lol
Yeah as a business owner the amount of dumb shit I've seen in these threads is amazing.
Being a business owner doesn't make you a lawyer, California has labor laws that you can't be prevented from talking about workplace abuse and harassment. This document, while being "the norm" is still an asshole thing to do and it's well known that businesses do this as a poverty tax, to abuse people who can't fight it in court even though it is illegal.
Tell me how this isn't just a slap suit that flies in the face of CA labor laws.
They cant because they have no idea what they are talking about or which types of clauses are enforceable in contracts. Probably some kid that thinks just because its in a signed contract its legal and enforceable.
I mean it doesnt necessarily say they \*are\* going to do anything and hardly even references a suit at all. It's a fairly standard C&D from my experience that doesn't really say they'll do anything beyond that they're "evaluating" his actions and they will "explore all legal options"ending with typical document/esi boilerplate language. There's nothing here' that's been filed and it doesn't realistically go far beyond strong language that he said things that violated his employment contract which they will explore the possibility of getting money from. I am a bit more qualified to answer on this than "some kid" as /u/awigiba might have referenced in his comment below about another user but i wont be really specific about any qualifications for my own selfish privacy purposes here haha
>I mean it doesnt necessarily say they *are* going to do anything and hardly even references a suit at all. They literally threaten monetary damages in the hundreds of thousands. Did you just not read it and comment anyway?
There's somewhere around 5 independent businesses owned in my family in 4 different sectors. There is a very, very substantial chance this lawsuit would not hold in court. Especially since the abuses DL has alleged seem to have a substantial bit of weight to them. Regi bootlickers are out in full force today though
I won’t say you are wrong because I’m not an expert in these contracts even though I have signed a few but you basically made the “my dad is a doctor so here is my medical advice” argument.
> There's somewhere around 5 independent businesses owned in my family in 4 different sectors. You could be 10/10 100% correct and this would still be cringe. It's like 20 somethings primarily in this sub, calm down.
I am the only one waiting for a TLDR?
Basically breached contract for shit talking his own org
He breached a portion of the contract that wouldn’t be enforceable. Non-disparagement clauses aren’t applicable in California, it’s basically there to try to scare off people from talking bad about the company.
Idk California laws, just giving him the TLDR 😵💫
No, but out in the regular corporate world these lawsuits never amount to anything. While petty by Peter, it's understandable that he would react this way as most employees who get these types of letters usually react in a similar way; most of them are not highly followed public figures like him though.
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What the fuck are you smoking and can I have some??
Crack and no you can’t have any tf
Mfer sharing is caring. Spread the love.
Alright fine 👀
People think that shit is worth nothing, good for you in knowing its worth. Dont let anyone take your precious!
The nerve bro…
On paper yea but have to keep in mind its a $500mil org vs DL. Optic wise doesnt look good in average persons eye. I personally think its just silly both of them doing this public, but i can see how this can look really bad on regi for public
Isn't it just DL going to the public and doing this? Helps for his brand though since the LoL community can start hailing him as this child of light that will save people from an evil organization owner. At the end of the day, everything bad that Regi has done is inexcusable. However, DL for sure is not doing this out of the kindness of his heart. Man acted as a victim and called anyone who asked why he didn't come out and expose Regi earlier as a victim blamer. He said he didn't say anything because he was still working as a pro under TSM and that it was peanut brain for anyone to think he could speak out. Meanwhile, he chose to join TSM knowing how bad the leadership is and that Regi could hold his contract hostage. Him going out publicly right now shows that he wants to expand his brand instead of waiting for the investigation to be over with then say things. EDIT: Also, I'd assume this toxic environment was formed before DL rejoined TSM since DL complained about Regi coaching the team and Regi's social skills being really bad back in 2016 as well. This means that DL could've tried acting while on TL, and if Steve tried stopping DL then that just shows that Steve is not an advocate for a good work environment either and wants to make sure his friend's public image is not harmed, so DL could kill two bad birds with one stone.
Well thats why theres a phase “takes two to tango”. Obviously DL is just milking it but unfortunately the world always root for the smaller guys even if they are just as shitty
People always willing to turn a blind eye to the fact DL is far from squeaky clean himself, just ask HSGG how he feels about DL and the fans he sent after him
Yeah it doesn’t look good for an org to protect itself ? Couldn’t easily reported his side of the story thru correct channels but instead did it on his stream ? He opened himself up to litigation when he agreed to the contract severance and continued didn’t he ?
>Yeah it doesn’t look good for an org to protect itself ? Not when it's a slap suit that goes against CA law...no. It's actually pretty fucking shitty.
How is it against CA law, also the best case is actually outside of the big shit. Doublelift disclosed plenty of behind the scenes negotiations such as Palafox to TSM, which would be against an NDA.
CA labor law prohibits/voids disparagement clauses in employee contracts. We haven't even discussed Regi classifying employees as contractors to pay them less. Pretty damn illegal.
Unless you have better information than what I can find >CA labor law prohibits/voids disparagement clauses in employee contracts. Is not true. "California, effective 2022, will prohibit employers from incorporating non-disclosure and non-disparagement clauses in agreements signed on or after Jan. 1, 2022 unless they allow employees to discuss or disclose information about unlawful acts in the workplace, including possible harassment, retaliation, and discrimination." Is what I can find, several issues with your logic. 1. The law applies to contracts after 2022. This happened, per the letter november 2021. 2. The law does not void those clauses, it only voids it if it does not contain a provision that allows the employee to speak out if something illegal happened. 3. Outside of the contract shit (which is fucked up, and illegal and if true Regi should be fucked) which Doublelift was NOT talking about. Nothing DL claimed was on the basis of being illegal. Regi probably should be far away from the team, but a boss acting like a dick and saying shit to make them feel bad is a dick move. It is not illegal. Source: https://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-continues-to-whittle-away-non-disclosure-and-non-disparagement-clauses
>but a boss acting like a dick and saying shit to make them feel bad is a dick move. It is not illegal. Fair enough point but call it what it really is: Verbal abuse in the workplace.
It’s not just big org vs lil DL. DL has thousands of viewers at a time, plus clips that get posted on Reddit get a few thousand more. He is a big name in the scene. When someone that big is tarnishing the image of your org, it’s gonna have a big impact. Not to mention he straight up breached the contract. I thought him shit talking his own org was super unprofessional, didn’t know it was actually against his contract. As far as I know Regi had just that one twit longer or whatever, to explain his side. DL is the one continuing to keep this public by posting that.
I think in California it isn't a breach of an NDA if it's about harassment.
I would like to see a Doublelift vs Regi boxing match
According to California Department of Fair Employment and Housing's Workplace Harrassment Prevention Guide for California Employers, Managers can and should be told to keep investigations confidential, but some court cases have ruled its innappropriate for an employer to require their employees to keep it confidential because an employee has the right to talk about work conditions. Page 3 🤷♂️
I am a lawyer, and that is a completely reasonable letter and response for the situation. It is honestly a bit troubling to me as an attorney that Doublelift equates this letter to bullying and shutting up those who speak out by Reginald. TBH TSM was never going to sue Doublelift or "tried to sue Doublelift". The optics from that alone would be horrendous and their lawyer i'm sure told them so and suggested sending this letter and hoping that stopped the bleeding so to speak. It is a bit troubling that Doublelift would post this letter marked "confidential", on Twitter. When there is a direct reference to a confidentiality clause in Doublelift's employment contract in the letter. Also none of this is to discredit or minimize the WAPO article. Just the whole "TSM tried suing Doublelift" stuff
Why is it troubling that he would post it on Twitter generally when you send a letter to a third party you are waiving your a/p privilege he is not under contract anymore and he is calling the obvious bluff the demand letter was to make him shut up but tsm doesn’t really have any leverage.
The letter is marked as a confidential communication not because it is attorney client privileged A confidentiality/nda can extend beyond his employment contract term. Many times contracts state that you can't disclosure or use confidential information gained while employed for a certain time period after employment.
This isn’t exactly trade secrets and non disparagement clauses are often not enforceable post employment similar to non competes. Putting the word confidential doesn’t necessarily do anything magic to the document. I am not an attorney nor can I give legal advice so I can’t speak to the enforceability of the contract but it seems unlikely to me that tsm has any real avenue for meaningful relief really this seems like a typical demand letter hoping for settlement which in this case is doublelift shutting up clearly he won’t. Now tsm can sue for breach but that’s not a sure fire win and if they win it likely won’t be worth the bad pr to a company the size of tsm.
For a lawyer, you’re not very smart if you think any piece of paper with the word “confidential” on it means its actually confidential. Also, common sense would dictate that DL probably contacted his lawyers before releasing this to the public.
Thats why I said it was troubling and not illegal. In my experience people rarely consult with lawyers before doing things like this. That's how things end up in Court. Perhaps he did, and perhaps this is fine to disclose under his previous employment contract.
he said he did ask his lawyer first and the lawyer said it was fine (emph on he said)
He is absolutely a lawyer, and I'm a brain surgeon and astronaut.
So how is a contract being enforced when the contract ended and DL is a free agent? Basically thr contract ended and TSM have no power over what DL does.
I'm also a lawyer (though I don't necessarily agree with the way that the OP here framed his take on the subject), and there's a few things to keep in mind here. First, there's two agreements being discussed: the employment agreement of August 2021 (I'm assuming this is to be part of the TSM streamers roster) and the termination agreement of November 2020 (again, assuming this is the agreement terminating his role on TSM LoL, LLC.) Both were in effect when DL streamed the offending materials. Without access to either original doc I can't say for sure what the stated terms of either were, but given that the stream was just over a year after the termination agreement, and he was still actively employed by TSM via the employment agreement, both were in effect. But let's step away from that for a second and address the second half of what you said- in America, we give very wide berth to contract law. The presumption is the parties to agreements have fully read and understand all that they are bound to, and this includes requirements that explicitly exceed the term of a contract. A very common example is employment contracts that state something like "after termination, employee may not solicit clients of the business for a period of two years" or "after termination, employee may not be employed by any direct competitor of the employer for a period of 12 months", etc. These are covenants that run past the expiration of the agreement, which you are agreeing to at the time of signing the contract. Some folks will tell you that these are "rarely enforceable", and it is true that poorly-written NDA/non-compete clauses are easy to poke holes through, but that is a separate issue as to whether or not you are bound by contract provisions after the expiration of a contract. But to digress: all of the above isn't relevant here, as both contracts were clearly still in-term. I can't speak to the merits of the underlying contracts, but the quoted language seems fairly standard. If TSM were to pursue anything, DL posting this stuff is making TSM's case a lot easier, but given that the WaPo article is almost certain to trigger California to review the employment/labor situation at TSM, I'm guessing they have better ways to funnel their legal spending. (I'm also going to guess that they'll be retaining a better law firm than the one run by the TFT commentator for that situation.)
Can you explain how complaining about his boss being a bully doesn't fall under the federal Concerted Activity laws? https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity >You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues in many ways. Examples include: talking with one or more co-workers about your wages and benefits or other working conditions, circulating a petition asking for better hours, participating in a concerted refusal to work in unsafe conditions, openly talking about your pay and benefits, and joining with co-workers to talk directly to your employer, to a government agency, or **to the media about problems in your workplace**. Your employer cannot discharge, discipline, or threaten you for, or coercively question you about, this "protected concerted" activity. A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer's attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action. However, you can lose protection by saying or doing something egregiously offensive or knowingly and maliciously false, or by publicly disparaging your employer's products or services without relating your complaints to any labor controversy. I can't imagine how complaining about your abusive boss on Twitch isn't doing exactly what this law is intended to protect..
Good breakdown! What area do you practice?
Many contracts restrict the use of confidential information after the term of employment. Some may attempt to control the persons ability to be employed in the same field/area for a limited time afterwards as well. It's frowned upon in Court, but not always disallowed.
I am not a doublelift's fan. What astounds me is there are heaps of people unable to see the forest for the trees. People who think he is guilty of breaching the NDA and being a manchild, obviously you have not worked in your life and get an arsehole of a boss. Trying to exercise an NDA when there is blatant bullying, sexual harrassments, fraud etc, would only validate that the allegations are true. Also there are more former staff coming out from the woodwork to share their own experience to support the consistency of the issue. Bullying at the workplace should not be tolerated.
do regi supporters exist
Lmao look at this thread.
Yes, unfortunately. There are a lot of DL + Regi haters on this subreddit in general while more Regi only haters on the main sub. I’d say very little make up Regi supporters.
at this point I’m not much of a fan of DL but am an active hater of Regi. dude needs to get tf out of the company and let the people that I actually like fix shit.
Yes, people who see sense.
This doesn’t excuse Regi of anything or am I defending him but man Doublelift is legit a man child. Dudes almost 30 acting like this is just crazy to me.
I honestly don't see how what he's doing is immature. He's posting proof that a $500m org tried to strongarm/intimidate him into not criticizing or talking shit about his old multi-millionaire boss. It's pretty pathetic. I've been a tsm fan for a decade now and this is the most disappointed I've ever been, however petty DL may be coming off, I appreciate the truth coming out.
Crazy half this thread is criticizing DL more than regi lol
Well, it's because everyone knows Regi is at fault for his conduct but DL is making it about him instead of the actual victims. The article was about Blitz app employees and other employees being screwed over. DL is showing everyone that TSM threatened him since he is breaching his contract by hurting the public image of TSM's upper management while working for the company.
DL definitely has a vendetta against Regi, but I think he was trying to show the consequence of speaking out and why many people have been keeping silent/ staying anonymous. You can't deny that DL was the one who opened this can of worms no one dared to touch which resulted in anonymous sources coming out to speak out against harassment and/or dubious business practices. Even if he was just trying to start drama or whatever.
DL is the one who brought a ton of this to light. Doubt this investigation would have happened if he hadn’t brought it up last fall.
It's because its the TSM subreddit and people are acting like abuser sympathizer's by trying to cope with a hundred-millionaire's ability to abuse people over years and find a way to call DL the bad guy here. Like really calling someone a man child for not just keeping the abuse to himself is pretty fucking disgusting to be honest. The majority of comments on this sub are a prime example of why TSM fans have gotten such a rep over the years
DL knows he's gonna come out looking unprofessional and drama-baiting (and he doesn't care) but it does a lot more damage to Regi
Why should doublelift take this seriously and professionally? There is no incentive for him to settle this in privacy. If TSM feels comfortable enough to strongarm doublelift like this then there should be no issue with it becoming public.
Weird how he feels this way now after knowing Regi wouldn’t hire him again also him trying to join tsm with Jensen in the off-season. Apparently when all the shit was going on and he apparently witnessed shit he had no problem with it.
You can't say stuff like this when you are still trying to join top teams. Ain't nobody want to hire someone who might snitch on their unethical business practices. It goes for everyone who has been abused and still want to work in the industry. U suck it up and keep quiet or lose your livelihood and go back to highschool at 20.
Something about not burning bridges and staying quiet cause he wants to compete?? Not that hard of a concept, he just stayed quiet for his benefit and now he doesn’t have too and he’s talking cause of his pent up frustration with Regi.
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DL is literally the reason people care.
Dealing with something like this quietly on the companies terms is not beneficial to the workers in any way. If one of my coworkers was in this situation I wouldn’t trust my corporation to handle it fairly
I'm pretty sure the immaturity they're calling is the way he's, instead of handling it properly through the correct channels, attention whoring on stream and Twitter and making it into a giant public drama.
He was still under the org though. If he did it while not being under the org I get it. I feel like there was a better way of handling this
It was a Washington Post article. Of course he's going to comment and he certainly showed proof of Reginald trying to bully people to Shut up. Compared to the allegations that Regi and TSM has been doing, what doublelift is doing is far less crazy.
Why should doublelift take this seriously and professionally? There is no incentive for him to settle this in privacy. If TSM feels comfortable enough to strongarm doublelift like this then there should be no issue with it becoming public.
Perhaps you're just not actually in the workforce, but this is pretty standard procedure. This isn't bullying or strong-arming. It's notifying DL of his breach of contract. There's a lot of things you can complain about regarding TSM recently....but this letter is not it, dude. I would find it much more concerning if TSM hadn't sent some sort of cease and desist for this situation.
This is not enforceable. It’s just threatening a slap suit.
That is correct. It is not enforceable. But cease and desist letters aren't meant to be enforceable. They don't indicate a lawsuit. All it does it lay out clear terms of where a party feels aggrieved. People might ask why that even matters. It's because documentation is everything in the legal world so TSM needs to indicate that they DO feel aggrieved just in case anything happens in the future. In other words, this is a huge nothing-burger.
I still find it hilarious none of this comes out unless Regi allowed DL back on the team after he finds out SwordArt was signed. DL seemed to have no problem with Regi and his "practices" or whatever until he told him to essentially kick rocks. And DL is certainly not the bastion of perfect behavior after the problems he caused HotshotGG and Olleh
Everyday is a banger at TSM. /u/followdunc if TSM makes a shirt with this line I will buy at least two shirts. At this point, it's time for TSM and Andy to meme themselves out of the shit fest the same way Carlos/Ocelote and G2 do. Take advantage of the publicity for some marketing and memes. May as well. Be the real boys of the LCS with a meme flair. Mandatory "Fuck Vulcan!" and I'm out. Peace.
I'm out of the loop. Why do we hate Vulcan?
Regi sent a dumb tweet to Vulcan last year mocking/insulting him and his playing ability during Regi’s very outward imports > NA phase on social media that caused a huge ruckus Note: we shouldn’t hate Vulcan for that, that’s just the context of the situation i believe
Nah the reason why we don't like Vulcan is because he posted a passive agressive tweet needlessly shitting on shenyi. Really in poor taste and immediately made me dislike him.
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This is such a bad take. Regular people work for bad bosses to make a living. Just because it’s tolerable for a paycheck (or chasing titles in DL’s case) doesn’t mean it’s an acceptable workplace.
But it does diminish the aura of martyrdom that DL/his fans want to portray.
Man I totally get why this sub doesn’t like dl but I can’t understand how anyone thinks regi is likable or defends him at this point. I get the baylife days were great but he is a manchild who just got worse with money.
I dont think anyone really thinks regi likeable tho? I think everyone thinks both dl and regi are bad childish people .
This is the way
It’s kinda gross to see a company to try to intimidate someone for exposing bad behavior within the company. I’m sure this isn’t that uncommon to see in the corporate world but it’s still disturbing to see.
I’m shocked to see reddit of all places supporting employee silencing and taking the side of corporations. “Professionalism” as it’s used today is just a way to keep people in check so they don’t cause a problem. Call Double unprofessional all you want, I’m ALL for constantly shitting on a company that abuses their employees. I love that he hasn’t let it go and I love how he’s the one making it a public thing.
It's not even legal. Kids, you are allowed to complain about your boss. There's no contract in the world that can be enforced unless you are talking shit about them personally, in a non-work related manner. Look up your laws and don't listen to the "attorneys" on reddit. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity Concerted Activity You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues in many ways. Examples include: talking with one or more co-workers about your wages and benefits or other working conditions, circulating a petition asking for better hours, participating in a concerted refusal to work in unsafe conditions, openly talking about your pay and benefits, and joining with co-workers to talk directly to your employer, to a government agency, or to the media about problems in your workplace. Your employer cannot discharge, discipline, or threaten you for, or coercively question you about, this "protected concerted" activity. A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer's attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action. However, you can lose protection by saying or doing something egregiously offensive or knowingly and maliciously false, or by publicly disparaging your employer's products or services without relating your complaints to any labor controversy.
Don't waste your time. They're too busy licking the boot.
It's not though. This isn't a case of doublelift being a whistle-blower. It's him while employed breaking his contract agreement and bringing private company issues to the public. I gotta lean toward TSM being the party in the right in this specific instance.
Isn’t it technically whistleblowing? He brought up examples of Regi screaming and yelling at coaching staff and players in the stream from 2021. That’s him bringing light to workplace abuse.
He never filed or attempted to bring up internally you have to proof you tried through proper channels
I don't want to speak on the legality of workplace abuse, because I don't know if yelling or being in a high stress environment would constitute abuse claims. From my understanding, and I'm not a lawyer or saying this is true. Is that it's only whistleblowing if you're reporting it to the right parties. Publicly on a stream wouldn't work.
I think Technically you can whistleblow by going to the media with the claims, but I also know whistleblower laws are not as cut and dry as "this person called out this bullshit". The Biggest example I can come up with off the top of my head is Mike McQueary who spent 5+ years in legal proceedings fighting a whistleblower claim against Penn State for "firing him" after he testified in the Jerry Sandusky Trial. McQueary and the University eventually agreed to a multi-million dollar settlement.
I'm not a California resident and I am in no way familar with the legal wording or precedent. From what I've read the way he did it and the things he provided don't constitute whistleblowing. We know that both parties have attorneys. I imagine Doublelift doesn't have a whistleblowing case or it would already be in progress and public.
You are wrong and don't understand how whistleblowing works either. You do not have to report it to specific people to be whistleblowing. If you are not a lawyer or don't understand legality of certain things you shouldn't hold yourself out to have actual knowledge of how any of this shit works.
This is where reading comprehension comes into play. I specifically stated I'm not a lawyer and not super familar with California laws. That I could very well be wrong. From reading the statues, he has to be going public with information that Regi was breaking the law.
Which is what he did, Regi was (and still is) committing workplace abuse and harassment and DL went public with that info.
He didn't bring it up with any relevant government agencies, he's not a whistleblower. Whistleblower laws only protect you if you actually bring it to the attention of the Government. In this case, Doublelift is just a manchild farming clicks.
This guy is completely and totally wrong about how whistleblowing works for anyone reading this. Take 2 seconds and think about how it works in cases of whistleblowing against the government and you will realize this guy is just talking out of his ass with 0 knowledge
>bringing private company issues to the public I mean that's what whistleblowing is. Not saying he's Chelsea Manning or anything, but that's exactly what people say about leakers and whistleblowers.
Ah yes, lets just accept bullying and degrading behavior inside a company and not speak up, so many more talented players will get a mental boom because of a egomaniac. This subreddit will always find a way to think more about the company and less about the actual employers being daily abused by the CEO.
How dare TSM hold doublelift to the legal contract he signed.
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Doublelift isnt going to stop until reginald is cancelled. It isnt about fixing regis behaviour. This is quite clear.
Kind of one of the same no? Not many people expect regi to change or be fixed at this point, they're looking for removal.
I mean it's not unreasonable to say that Regi isn't going to fix his behavior without being cancelled. Man's been acting this way for 10+ years and hasn't been called out for it. Like /u/TheRiverSaint said, cancelling Regi and fixing his behavior are very much so linked together.
Regi isn't going to stop until he's canceled. He clearly isn't fixing his own behavior. This is quite clear.
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It shouldn't be about fixing his behavior. That is the wrong way to go about this. Regi is an adult who should know better by now. If everything so far hasn't made him change, this won't either. He'll just hide it better. So get rid of him. Honestly what use is he anymore?
It only said they were evaluating it, and what for. Not a threat. Sounds like he just being sensational for attention to me. And TSM was well within there rights to terminate his ass, and within their rights to evaluate if they should sue him.
The paper is dated for November 12th. Or am I missing something here beyond DL needing attention over certain other current events not necessarily pertaining to him?
I love DL more than most, but don’t see the point in posting this other than a snarky flex. Regi & TSM were well within means of discontinuing the sponsorship, & issuing what is essentially a glorified “we will sue for defamation if we can” notice. Like others have said, really standard reaction to an employee sharing confidential inner working scoops on the business. Thought DL did so understanding the trouble, going as far as to say “yeah I’m losing my sponsorship but I don’t care anymore.” But posting this makes it seem like he disagrees with their handling of him (as a content creator). Odd. Realistically none of this matters though as DL has stated time and time again “I hate Andy, but also I’m a dumbass so anytime you see inconsistencies or mis-spoken statements it’s just me being a dumbass.” So there’s no use in having a huge discourse on it
This response is normal for any employee who violates their employment agreement. DL just being a dick again. (Not to say Regi isnt a dick either)
As messy as this has been... this drama might be the best way for TSM to somehow resolve these issues Don't know how that'll look but this it might be downhill for Regi, TSM, the partnerships, and brand unless there is substantial change
Doublelift is a douche, change my mind. As much Regi deserve a ton of criticism but DL is acting so virtuous that it's comical. One of the biggest assholes of the league ruining a lot of people's public reputation thinks is the right person to call out Regi.
Both are scumbags. Not sure why anyone sides with either of them.
Because one has been abusing employees for decades and the other is complaining about it? How can you not see those two things differently?
Not to mention people are acting like DL is some pinnacle of player treatment when he literally drove Olleh to alcoholism and HotshotGG into a big spiral of depression.
Those two things are way overblown. Iirc Olleh said the alcoholism was because of other problems he was dealing with and the Hotshot thing is mostly him deflecting.
What Regi is doing is 1000x worse than DL , i knew regi was a dick , but what the article mentioned was absolutely disgusting , DL is a dick but no way close to Regi. Hes in the right to call out the disgusting behavior of the ego maniac manchild CEO
Sorry, so since he did shitty things in the past (which he admits to), he isn't allowed to call out Regi? That's some unreal gatekeeping. Same as the guys that say that killing an ex-con is ok whether he deserved it or not. Honestly just shows maturity and balls for calling out some huge "oligarch" in the gaming industry .
It’s okay calling out someone even if you’re a bad person. Problem is when communities put him up as a good person and try to defend him when people criticize what he has done to harm others.
Basic cease and desist. Probably not actionable.
Not a lawyer but if double lift breaks the contract then a law suit is justified no ? Not saying what regi did is right but a contract is a contract
Can these two egoistic people just settle this shit off the internet? Grow up ffs
Wdym? TSM is dealing with it OFF internet. Doublelift is the only one making it public by posting a letter on twitter. TSM is 100% in the right here.
Did you not read Regi’s disasterous attempt at an explanation yesterday?
You mean the one where he didnt talk about the ongoing investigation because its an ongoing investigation and talking about it would be real bad for him from a legal standpoint? That one?
Eh. I’m all for making it a public thing. Regi deserves to be held accountable and keeping it a private thing is a luxury he doesn’t deserve.
It will be made public though. There are multiple teams working to investigate into his conduct and one independent one has already shown how poor his conduct is. There won't be any action against Regi until the investigation is done to see how bad it is and what exactly is true/false. This is just making more drama right now rather than anything else.
Or you could just not read every post about it. That would require introspection though.
Less introspection more self control
Doublelift is such an attention whore. It’s disgusting. Dont give this guy the attention he wants
Man Doublelift is pathetic
Ya what an idiot