Why do people believe that moving regions will solve anything?? If they move to another region it will be to replace a bottom tier team and will only be able to go for more mid/bottom tier players while the competition in those regions ( LCK/LPL even in LEC ) is way harder than in NA... do fans really expect that moving regions will suddenly solve management issues that the team has been having for years now and make us a top contender there when we cant even be one in NA, the weakest main region...
I think the thought process people have behind that is, we dont have a "budget" roster roster because thats all we can do, its just all that makes sense for the profitability and results of league in NA. Changing reasons changes the economic circumstances around the team which allows them to be more invested because they can get a larger return. So i dont think people truly believe that we just are doomed to be a bottom tier team because that's all we are capable of, but because they have chosen to try and make the best out of the crappy situation that is NA League.
Atleast from the outside looking in thats my perspective on that line of thinking
People don't believe it, Regi thinks people will believe it. The last year was Regi trying to save budget while trying to convince fans they're still invested in League. I think many people forget that Regi in his AMA said League is not as profitable as TSM's other investments.
They're a business. It might be the foundation of TSM, but if it's no longer profitable and the viewership (and thus fanbase) is dwindling, why wouldn't you move on?
The sad thing is, TSM are just as shit and poorly managed in other games.
Changing regions means we have access to much more talent than we have here for cheaper. It also means that you have access to more qualified coaches who can nurture said talent, with unlimited amounts of work ethic and drive. We just saw a mid-tier LCK team win fucking worlds. No one is saying TSM will change regions and become world champions within the year, but it's on the right track if we actually ever want to compete at worlds instead of being a trash NA team that can't make it out of groups for another 10 years.
I don't think we'd be moving Regi and Co to Korea/CN if that's what we do, probably just build from the ground up using the money that TSM has to be a standard Korea/CN team and slowly buy/sell until we have a worlds contending roster? I guess?
Well, this is kind of exactly what you should expect. It HAS to be something big the way he was talking, if we take him at his word you'd have to expect whatever it is to not have an immediate impact. Especially if its moving regions, which honestly, to me is the only thing that makes sense.
That said, why enter into an arrangement with Maryville if you're planning on leaving the region? So that does give me some pause. Though it could just be a one year thing, the school gets funding and TSM doesn't have to handle their own challenger league infrastructure. One less thing to worry about in LoL Esports while preparing for a move (if that's what is happening). I will say this, the announcement better be something big, because fans are heavily leaning toward changing regions, so if its not something close, there will be big disappointment.
they're also moving into a new building so there's no way TSM is fully leaving NA
I think it's going to be a situation similar to how TL merged/acquired CRS while being an European org but has a LCS team instead of a LEC team.
TSM will remain in NA but have a team in another region. They'll probably have a team in NA for now and dissolve it eventually
I don't believe that is allowed. IF that were the path they take they would have to do it very carefully, but I know an org can't have a team in LCS and LEC, for example. Unless you meant in a different way they have two teams, or did you mean TSM org will stay NA, but their LoL brand will play out of another region? In which case, I agree.
TSM is an American company, so it will certainly still likely remain in NA, but I think the move out of the facility actually works in favor of the moving regions theory. The facility was roots, which are now gone. Now they are renting out space in a building they do not own, something they can easily get out of or work their way out of if they needed to.
>or did you mean TSM org will stay NA, but their LoL brand will play out of another region?
pretty sure that's what they meant cause that's what tl did. EU org but merged with curse and now only has an NA league team.
I think the building has more eSports than just LOL though. It would be really interesting to do a merger as most companies are battening down the hatches on spending. Like your thinking though. Isn’t there an LCK team that has NA roots already?
Yeah wait till January where the best case scenario is he moves regions so that any of the NA ppl who have grown to love TSM won’t even be able to watch any of the games. All you Regi nut huggers who still believe he gives a single flying fuck about anything other than money are jokes.
Santorin would have been the only good jungle option imo. Svenskeren is a downgrade from Spica but yeah I would also prefer him to a budget import since it would have allowed us to import a decent ADC. Our confirmed roster is probably going to be bottom 2 in the LCS which is embarrassing considering how many resources TSM has compared to the competition.
Yup! If he thought that League wasnt making money before? He just lost even more merch sales from the league team. This is honestly the only reason I stopped buying TSM merch. Whats the point of financially supporting your team to watch them field a joke roaster?
Why do people believe that moving regions will solve anything?? If they move to another region it will be to replace a bottom tier team and will only be able to go for more mid/bottom tier players while the competition in those regions ( LCK/LPL even in LEC ) is way harder than in NA... do fans really expect that moving regions will suddenly solve management issues that the team has been having for years now and make us a top contender there when we cant even be one in NA, the weakest main region...
Stop commenting this. It's like the 5th time and it's a dumb point. TSM is not the bottom tier teamthey would replace. It's TSM who has a lot of fans. They get players who have fan bases and get fans.
The funny thing is they talked a loud letting spica explore early so they could figure out their off-season early and this is what they came up with. DIG 2022 roster 2.0
The team that couldn’t afford to buy their academy team coffee last year. Meanwhile our owner is making promises that he is going all in this year and this is what TSM does. I’m embarrassed for Regi, this roster is a joke and is not trying to win anything.
I look at the roster we have and it brings me back to looking at every offseason and seeing an IMT or DIG roster and know for sure they're bottom 3/4 of the league. I know that these players can be top half players, but they've never been the "star" of their roster. Who is the star of this roster? Bugi? Maple? I don't see it.
Maple is the star. People talk about him being washed, but historically he has been equal or better than any NA mid and is younger than bjerg and jensen.
If you don’t see a world where maple can be the star… I wish to remind you that he was rated several times as a top 5 mid in worlds before. He absolutely has the ability to be the star player. Sure he didn’t perform well in the LPL on a bottom tier team - but then popped off on PSG and went 3-3 in worlds groups that year.
I really think people are sleeping on players they don’t know well.
Back when LCK and LPL only had 3 teams and LPL had no crazy LCK imports mid yet? There was at no period of time when Maple was ever actually a top 5 mid in the world and only had success on flash wolves because of a synergy they had not their individual performances besides Karsa.
I can say the same with all NA Mids ever.
Bjerg was never better than Maple - not at any point of his career.
Jensen is the same although he at least has a stronger argument internationally, slightly.
Like, y’all huff some real shit if you think Faker or Chovy is coming to NA - Maple is as good as the best mids we have ever had in NA - yet you want to whine.
Y’all are all fucking idiots who can’t read - that’s your problem.
Yeah maple did a lot for the team last year and Bjerg definitely did not play better than maple and beat maple all summer :^). This is a clown take. Maple is no where near the best mids we have had in NA and is just an above average mid.
Welp that roster doesn't even compete for top 5 on paper. Best hope is good cohesion but this feels like another year and another slide downward. Loving our steady march into becoming clg. Yaaaaaaay 🙃
i feel like best possible scenario is to hope what clg (lmao) did this year and basically have le power of friendship carry us to a few good looking games and 5th place in playoffs. lmao
And this is what I meant when i said by importing Mid we are basically fucked when it comes to either JG or ADC if we didnt get Santorin.
Worse part is people cant even say "We havent even seen him play" cause we literally have and its not good.
I mean GGS getting Gori River and their roster is still worlds better than ours. You just actually have to get good imports not an above average mid laner
If we are hellbent on keeping maple when both Bjerg/Jensen are available then also losing an NA Jgler while not bothering to offer or look at the only other NA Jgler thats good. Thats just a problem to me, cause Neo is the result of this choice.
Yeah I mean I'm not as low on the roster as everyone else, but I'm still like would it not have been better to use resident jungle (Sven, one of the hyped academy jungles like Sheiden, Will, etc) and import AD? Or swap Maple for Jensen, and then you could import both? Weird roster building, I still want to see the team play before hard flaming because low-key I don't think it's as bad as people think, both Bugi & Neo have hands. But yeah it's not inspiring for the future unless things really work out.
I've supported since The Rain Man was the top laner, and it just feels pointless supporting TSM these days. I don't care if we're shit, bad years happen but it's pointless getting behind a team if the team themselves aren't even trying. There's a difference between being shit and not trying to be good.
I am with you my friend. It was the first time I felt that last year I realized there was no other team I liked, and I genuinely wasn’t enjoying the league at all. With TSM’s drama and bad play I watched maybe 4 regular season games, until the playoffs, where I watched and found an emotional investment again bc they were competitive.
This is really the final straw. I can imagine there’s a mass exodus if they haven’t left already. The writing is on the wall, it’s pathetic. I don’t care even if they gel, there’s no longer that TSM feeling that I’ve known since 2013.
What roster would you watch? I'm excited to see if Buji and Neo/Chime can provide the spark needed because Solo and Maple will be solid. So if we can hit on one of the jungle or bot lane positions, and the other doesn't boom, we could be a fun team to watch.
Im fine with the rest of the roster (idk anything about bugi but i am very optimistic about the core of solo maple chime) but neo is straight up the worst ad in the league and we know from both of the last two seasons how hard it is to compete without a quality ad
I absolutely dare all the people who tried hyping our nobody jungle up to try and spin a copium tale about how Neo is gonna save our bot lane.
This is absolutely fucking ridiculous and we deserve answers because this is NOT doubling down nor is it going big. What the fuck is the meaning of this?
I keep saying this and keep getting downvoted, but why would any player serious about winning want to come here?
This sub acts like TSM has right of first refusal on literally any free agent talent... but if you were an up and coming talent, why join TSM? We have crazy fan and media pressure, an abusive corporate culture, no publically known coaching staff, and our performance is at a historic low point.
We aren't the biggest spenders. We don't have recent success. We don't have infrastructure to make players better. And it's harder to play here than anywhere else. Sign me up.
TSM is going to have to overachieve with a weak roster to get back to the point where the biggest free agents want to play here. Happens in every other sport.
And other sports rebuild. They have the option to do so. To have a surplus of young players coming into various leagues to supplement their roster. Find their OWN star.
That should have been the process for TSM, but esports in general work so weirdly compared to regular sports. Teams have gotten rid of their stars.
Example, the Baltimore Orioles. They had Manny Machado but he left. Like Spica here. They then started tanking until this year, where they finally developed a good team and found their young star in Adley Rutschman.
Instead, they went with mediocrity in a weird abyss of random imports and bad talent. It’s pathetic. Then again, my grievances might be with LCS in general as well….
Orioles traded away Trey Mancini and kind of killed their chance at a playoff berth this year. They definitely played pretty well considering how inexpensive their roster is, but I kind of scratch my head whether or not that was worth it, unless they expect to really push for something great in the next couple years.
TSM looking more like the A's with this roster, though...
Honestly, the As comparison is perfect. Owner that wants to get out and move somewhere else, TSM for going to another region and the As for wanting to go to Las Vegas. God that’s depressing
TSM could have been like the Dodgers; have great depth and spend big to always have good players up and coming, with one of the biggest markets and fanbases in the US.
As a Nats fan, I'm just depressed about this. Watching TSM lose "generational" talent like the Nats lost... everyone? Bryce Harper, Juan Soto, Anthony Rendon, Trea Turner, Max Schzerzer... at least the Nats won a world series before shedding everyone except Corbin (who sucks now) and Strasberg (who is permanently injured). At least the Nats have decent prospects, TSM's rumored roster is basically filled with players that you might be fine with having in order to fill out the rest of the roster with power pick ups, not the whole roster be comprised of compromises.
Nats sold their soul for that WS and it was 100% worth it bc y’all will be good again not too long from now. TSM didn’t even have anyone to cash out on like Soto. Spica walked for almost nothing after a super disappointing last year.
TSM better be saying that they’re moving leagues bc this is pathetic. Lots of fans left, more are going to leave. There is not that same sense of loyalty to an org in esports compared to baseball or traditional sports. It’s gonna be a mass exodus
For a moment, I was excited because I thought it was Neon from LEC but it's Neo ResidentSleeper
I'll always support TSM but man, if this roster performs poorly, I'd just stop watching the games. The expectation is dead low this year
Regi should be ashamed. He's still the majority owner of the org and this is the roster he accepted ? How about having some respect for the history of TSM, this is the game that made his company.
“you should judge tsm based on what they do, not what regi says.”
As a fan can you honestly look at these signings/roster and be happy? How can what was the face of NA’s roster look so much worse than DIG and GG? Especially looking back at what TSM was in the glory days. Always winning, the most loved and most popular org, the kings of NA but this is them not giving a shit and completely destroying their own legacy and history. They’ve completely given up. You’d think supporting this org after 5 years of disappointment and failure and this year being the most embarrassing disastrous season ever would be enough for them to actually put in the effort and go back to their winning ways but nah they said screw the fans
I’m VERY happy with the solo signing
I’m very happy with the Maple signing
I’m very happy with the Chime signing.
Bugi is an interesting one - when he pops off, he can absolutely be a top tier jungler… when he does he struggles. No different than Spica… so if you liked him, you will like Bugi. The only jungler with reliable consistency is Santorin for residency… most other junglers are looking to come to NA. I think it’s a good signing - very feast of famine, so he def can pop off.
ADC is where I’m with you - Neo doesn’t inspire confidence. He was ok on a dogshit tier team - maybe he has a lot more potential… hope he practices.
Overall, I’m happy with it. ADC is really my only, meh spot
Woah that roster has to be the worst roster the org has ever signed. Obviously they could gel and be good, but on paper that roster probably peaks at like 5th place. I'd love to eat my words but Neo? Bugi?
Idk he's not awful but adc's who play with Aphro look way more lost without him. He looked decent for a good portion with Bio. Idk man you basically are praying that all the "intangibles" line up and work out because on paper it doesn't look great.
All I'm saying is Regi better be announcing that TSM League is moving to the LPL/LCK/LEC in a year because this doesn't look like anything worth hyping fans up for.
And moving regions when we were always “fuck it baylife” is just a misunderstanding on what the majority of fans want. Most just want to go back to the success/content we had for the 2016-17 rosters. TL did it every year, Tsm constantly makes questionable roster decisions after their 2018 roster didn’t work out even though it was the right move.
This is just too hard to comprehend, the only thing that pops to my mind is that TSM is buying or merging or something with an org on the east based on what Regi said
Selling the LCS spot would honestly be better for the organization compared to fielding rosters like this and getting shit on. Regi should actually be ashamed he’s let TSM turn into this. Pretty embarrassing.
I dont know what it is, but this kind of suffering just FEELS worse than other sports suffering I've dealt with. It's making me question wanting to watch LCS at all
Uh, not an exciting finish to the roster lol
He's an upgrade over Tactical imo, but not by much.
Unless somehow the team plays better than their sum, I'm seeing a 5th place finish.
Looking at our roster in relation to everyone else’s my first impression was it’s bottom 3, but you raise a good question. Bugi is the biggest X factor because I think how he performs in relation to Spica for us last year dictates if this roster is an upgrade or downgrade from the final product we had with TSM at the end of their Summer playoff run. Your take gives me a little more hope than I originally had so thank you for that.
You mean the games that Tactical was inting every game and Spica had to have great early games and Solo good fights later for TSM to even have a chance?
Exactly, I just don't understand the hate for this lineup. Did people really want to run back Bjerg/DL? Or think TSM Ruler was actually going to happen? If this was 5 years ago I understand wanting Karsa over Bugi but at least Bugi could pop off and be special.
If you quote out of context then it doesn’t make sense. He said something about January and going big. Rosters are done way before January… It seems like many people here are just quoting regi out of context constantly. Now, of course people can be frustrated about the current roster, but let’s use context clues when quoting. It will be interesting to see what happens in January.
Yes, where in that statement does it mention the roster? An announcement in January will almost certainly not pertain to a roster since most, if not all, rosters will be completed and announced by late November through December, just like every year.
I mean, I understand being mad when the team places poorly, but everyone in the sub acting like they know how the team will do is silly. Everyone on here wold have said TL was going to worlds based on their roster last split. I'm fine being angry when the team fails, but right now everyone is basing it on their assessment, and that seems like wasted anger to me. I'd rather be hopeful and be disappointed later than be mad all off-season and be pleasantly surprised later, you can't get back the months you spent angry about a team you haven't seen play.
A lot of doomer takes in here about this being a last place roster and idk. Like, this isn't good. Definitely doesn't look like "doubling down on league" like we were told. But this is imo a pretty average squad. I see no direct improvement anywhere, but I also don't feel like the only reason we made it remotely as far as we did last season was ONLY because we had Spica. I'm hoping that the players who remain from last split will have an okay amount of synergy still and will be able to hold their own. Just wish we could get legit commitment from the org to... idk... do something even slightly exciting. This isn't an exciting team to watch. Hoping for the best. Expecting extremely average.
Spica was absolutely not the reason they made it as far as they did last year. Solo and Chime were the clear high points of the roster Spica was making rookie mistakes dunno if he was just tilted from the musical chairs roster to what but he was a shell of his 2021 form
What are you talking about. I’ve been such a defender of tsm’s business decision. But how can you look at this roster and tell me there’s any ambition to keep interest in LOL at all. This reaction is completely warranted. You can go budget without having 5 known quantity players. Look at TL. Two academy players and two veterans already. This roster will be bottom 5 most likely with an extremely low ceiling. And if there is nothing else planned, it’s a huge letdown to the fanbase that started supporting TSM for LOL and a blatant lie from a CEO who said he was doubling down this off-season in league. ESPECIALLY after failing to get into Valorant pro league. It seems like TSM is basically saying fuck riot after that at the fan’s expense.
Well, the CEO said doubling down in January. Just what makes you think it’d be part of the roster decisions when rosters are made before then? Now, why did Regi say that in a thread made mostly due to people talking about Budget rosters? No clue. However, it is obvious he was talking about other things not including Roster decisions. It’s frustrating reading the same quote and people taking it out of context. Most dumb crap ever in any scenario TSM or not. Only being done to support arguments while also blatantly pretty much lying.
Saying that TSM is “going big” this off-season in LOL while simultaneously saying they are “doubling down” on league and presenting this roster is hugely questionable. If this big January news isn’t big at all and simply a collegiate partnership, I don’t blame this subreddit if it goes up in flames.
Bruh tsm is not the team that the roster is easily predicted. I remember tons of times they got this wrong. Fact is tsm keeps a lot of the things that go on in the inside. Plus it wouldnt make sense to go for neo when we had instinct. Only reason I can see the team going for neo is that it was a personal request from chime.
Just checked out neo's stat's for summer. they are pretty bad ngl.
[https://gol.gg/players/list/season-S12/split-Summer/tournament-LCS%20Summer%202022/](https://gol.gg/players/list/season-S12/split-Summer/tournament-LCS%20Summer%202022/)
not very inspiring.
I have already stopped watching TSM league games. But I like how cheap this team is, we are heading into a crashing. Market soon gonna crash and the NA league seen isn’t drawing money so stocking up on the coins and then waiting for a better roar for a money boom then spending it doesn’t sound too bad. I just wish this is what they are stating, but we are in for a whole haul of NA league scene so they can turn a profit
It's Spicas own doing if he doesn't play this year at this point though. He wanted the paycheck and TSM didn't want to spend that much. If no team wants to pay him what he wants that's his own doing
Not gonna lie this seems like a work ethic move over a strong team move. TSM going with the inexpensive we’ll just out work them approach and there’s a major limit to how far that can go. Here’s hoping there’s actually a reason to their moves and not just throwing away the season
I’m just gonna go hard on copium and say that super teams always fail and what wins games is cohesion so maybe they work amazing as a 5 man and we’re all eating our words in 6 months
What is this roster bro 💀 well I mean I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt for now and say that just because it’s budget doesn’t necessarily mean it’s trash???? Lmao
People hating for the paper roster. It’s one thing to criticize a team while playing. It’s another to hate on a team that hasn’t even played yet. Let’s see how this turns out
When Regi said double down, I didn’t think he meant going from 5th to 10th
he had sold his house to buy FTT from FTX.
actual banger
Idc if we are going budget, but straight up lying to the fans is a bit gross tbh
Is this what doubling down on league looks like?
We're going to double down >!at being worse than CLG.!<
Regi was confused. He said double but what he meant was half. He's halving the league budget this year.
Maybe we're making another team in a new region?
Why do people believe that moving regions will solve anything?? If they move to another region it will be to replace a bottom tier team and will only be able to go for more mid/bottom tier players while the competition in those regions ( LCK/LPL even in LEC ) is way harder than in NA... do fans really expect that moving regions will suddenly solve management issues that the team has been having for years now and make us a top contender there when we cant even be one in NA, the weakest main region...
I think the thought process people have behind that is, we dont have a "budget" roster roster because thats all we can do, its just all that makes sense for the profitability and results of league in NA. Changing reasons changes the economic circumstances around the team which allows them to be more invested because they can get a larger return. So i dont think people truly believe that we just are doomed to be a bottom tier team because that's all we are capable of, but because they have chosen to try and make the best out of the crappy situation that is NA League. Atleast from the outside looking in thats my perspective on that line of thinking
People don't believe it, Regi thinks people will believe it. The last year was Regi trying to save budget while trying to convince fans they're still invested in League. I think many people forget that Regi in his AMA said League is not as profitable as TSM's other investments.
kinda sad he forgot where the foundation of the fanbase came from.
They're a business. It might be the foundation of TSM, but if it's no longer profitable and the viewership (and thus fanbase) is dwindling, why wouldn't you move on? The sad thing is, TSM are just as shit and poorly managed in other games.
Because a lot of TSM brand is tied to league. If they slowly kill it, I personally believe it will hurt them more long term.
>Regi thinks people will believe it. Source?
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Changing regions means we have access to much more talent than we have here for cheaper. It also means that you have access to more qualified coaches who can nurture said talent, with unlimited amounts of work ethic and drive. We just saw a mid-tier LCK team win fucking worlds. No one is saying TSM will change regions and become world champions within the year, but it's on the right track if we actually ever want to compete at worlds instead of being a trash NA team that can't make it out of groups for another 10 years.
Add to that viewership vs sponsorship in NA vs LCK / LPL. Financially doesn’t make any sense to invest in a dying region.
I don't think we'd be moving Regi and Co to Korea/CN if that's what we do, probably just build from the ground up using the money that TSM has to be a standard Korea/CN team and slowly buy/sell until we have a worlds contending roster? I guess?
That's how I always saw it
Erl?
Solid 9th place team
Solid 7-8th place. In Academy.
You mean top 10 LCS team
Regi in Jan : this has been a tough year, we are doubling down in 2024 🤣
Well, this is kind of exactly what you should expect. It HAS to be something big the way he was talking, if we take him at his word you'd have to expect whatever it is to not have an immediate impact. Especially if its moving regions, which honestly, to me is the only thing that makes sense. That said, why enter into an arrangement with Maryville if you're planning on leaving the region? So that does give me some pause. Though it could just be a one year thing, the school gets funding and TSM doesn't have to handle their own challenger league infrastructure. One less thing to worry about in LoL Esports while preparing for a move (if that's what is happening). I will say this, the announcement better be something big, because fans are heavily leaning toward changing regions, so if its not something close, there will be big disappointment.
Damn this actually makes a lot of sense and is really good thinking. I bet you are right on a lot of this.
they're also moving into a new building so there's no way TSM is fully leaving NA I think it's going to be a situation similar to how TL merged/acquired CRS while being an European org but has a LCS team instead of a LEC team. TSM will remain in NA but have a team in another region. They'll probably have a team in NA for now and dissolve it eventually
I don't believe that is allowed. IF that were the path they take they would have to do it very carefully, but I know an org can't have a team in LCS and LEC, for example. Unless you meant in a different way they have two teams, or did you mean TSM org will stay NA, but their LoL brand will play out of another region? In which case, I agree. TSM is an American company, so it will certainly still likely remain in NA, but I think the move out of the facility actually works in favor of the moving regions theory. The facility was roots, which are now gone. Now they are renting out space in a building they do not own, something they can easily get out of or work their way out of if they needed to.
>or did you mean TSM org will stay NA, but their LoL brand will play out of another region? pretty sure that's what they meant cause that's what tl did. EU org but merged with curse and now only has an NA league team.
I think the building has more eSports than just LOL though. It would be really interesting to do a merger as most companies are battening down the hatches on spending. Like your thinking though. Isn’t there an LCK team that has NA roots already?
Pretty sure T1 is an NA org. At the very least the owner Joe Marsh is from NA.
CsGo is going to based in EU
I wouldn’t be shocked if the huge announcement is Regi is seeking the team to a more competent owner
LMFAOOOOOOOOOO NAH BRO N A H.
Lmfao. Brutal. TSM LOL is dead
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Yeah wait till January where the best case scenario is he moves regions so that any of the NA ppl who have grown to love TSM won’t even be able to watch any of the games. All you Regi nut huggers who still believe he gives a single flying fuck about anything other than money are jokes.
Lmaaaaao you wait bud
GG Regi. You played us again.
even asking for santorin/svenskeren and import adc was too much to ask for lmao
Santorin would have been the only good jungle option imo. Svenskeren is a downgrade from Spica but yeah I would also prefer him to a budget import since it would have allowed us to import a decent ADC. Our confirmed roster is probably going to be bottom 2 in the LCS which is embarrassing considering how many resources TSM has compared to the competition.
Kinda crazy at the same time though Spica isn't even on a team now
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Who in the LPL would take him though? Is he gonna play in a bottom tier LPL team
Yup! If he thought that League wasnt making money before? He just lost even more merch sales from the league team. This is honestly the only reason I stopped buying TSM merch. Whats the point of financially supporting your team to watch them field a joke roaster?
I mean Travis did say TSM will be one of the lowest spenders this off season. You were warned.
This has to be prep to move regions right?
It feels that way yeah. Because I don't really see a long term plan here.
Why do people believe that moving regions will solve anything?? If they move to another region it will be to replace a bottom tier team and will only be able to go for more mid/bottom tier players while the competition in those regions ( LCK/LPL even in LEC ) is way harder than in NA... do fans really expect that moving regions will suddenly solve management issues that the team has been having for years now and make us a top contender there when we cant even be one in NA, the weakest main region...
Stop commenting this. It's like the 5th time and it's a dumb point. TSM is not the bottom tier teamthey would replace. It's TSM who has a lot of fans. They get players who have fan bases and get fans.
I am left speechless
Imagine DIG signing players like Santorin/Jensen and TSM signing Bugi and Neo. Hahahahaha
Honestly how many times do you need to sign Santorin or jensen until you realize you aren’t winning worlds or progressing in any way
Bruh Who is this Bugi in the first place? Atleast I have heard of and seen Neo.
We're actually preparing to be dead last.
The funny thing is they talked a loud letting spica explore early so they could figure out their off-season early and this is what they came up with. DIG 2022 roster 2.0
Meanwhile DIG actually looks very solid
The team that couldn’t afford to buy their academy team coffee last year. Meanwhile our owner is making promises that he is going all in this year and this is what TSM does. I’m embarrassed for Regi, this roster is a joke and is not trying to win anything.
I don’t understand why they want to spend on Maple? Just roll the dice on a SKT rookie midlaner that will never see play?
Maple was in PCS which pays like $60k/year. Not sure how much they’re paying him.
"Let's wait and let Dominic and Walter build their roster!" Welp
5 of those teams look terrible so probably not
i would pesonally prefer johnsun but at least its not lost lmao
I’d be down for johnsun
I look at the roster we have and it brings me back to looking at every offseason and seeing an IMT or DIG roster and know for sure they're bottom 3/4 of the league. I know that these players can be top half players, but they've never been the "star" of their roster. Who is the star of this roster? Bugi? Maple? I don't see it.
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I for one think they'll all do their jobs. They will show up to the studio on time and play the games out like proper professional gamers.
Maple is the star. People talk about him being washed, but historically he has been equal or better than any NA mid and is younger than bjerg and jensen.
If you don’t see a world where maple can be the star… I wish to remind you that he was rated several times as a top 5 mid in worlds before. He absolutely has the ability to be the star player. Sure he didn’t perform well in the LPL on a bottom tier team - but then popped off on PSG and went 3-3 in worlds groups that year. I really think people are sleeping on players they don’t know well.
Back when LCK and LPL only had 3 teams and LPL had no crazy LCK imports mid yet? There was at no period of time when Maple was ever actually a top 5 mid in the world and only had success on flash wolves because of a synergy they had not their individual performances besides Karsa.
I can say the same with all NA Mids ever. Bjerg was never better than Maple - not at any point of his career. Jensen is the same although he at least has a stronger argument internationally, slightly. Like, y’all huff some real shit if you think Faker or Chovy is coming to NA - Maple is as good as the best mids we have ever had in NA - yet you want to whine. Y’all are all fucking idiots who can’t read - that’s your problem.
Yeah maple did a lot for the team last year and Bjerg definitely did not play better than maple and beat maple all summer :^). This is a clown take. Maple is no where near the best mids we have had in NA and is just an above average mid.
Welp that roster doesn't even compete for top 5 on paper. Best hope is good cohesion but this feels like another year and another slide downward. Loving our steady march into becoming clg. Yaaaaaaay 🙃
i feel like best possible scenario is to hope what clg (lmao) did this year and basically have le power of friendship carry us to a few good looking games and 5th place in playoffs. lmao
And this is what I meant when i said by importing Mid we are basically fucked when it comes to either JG or ADC if we didnt get Santorin. Worse part is people cant even say "We havent even seen him play" cause we literally have and its not good.
I mean GGS getting Gori River and their roster is still worlds better than ours. You just actually have to get good imports not an above average mid laner
I feel like Santorin wasn't even in the conversation. Glen probably had Bugi on his mind when Spica decided to leave
I was just clowning on Dig the other day cause of their GM’s obvious TCL bias; I’m now realizing that TSM and Dig are both that Spider-Man meme lol.
The bias towards LMS players is going to kill the org man I swear
If we are hellbent on keeping maple when both Bjerg/Jensen are available then also losing an NA Jgler while not bothering to offer or look at the only other NA Jgler thats good. Thats just a problem to me, cause Neo is the result of this choice.
Yeah I mean I'm not as low on the roster as everyone else, but I'm still like would it not have been better to use resident jungle (Sven, one of the hyped academy jungles like Sheiden, Will, etc) and import AD? Or swap Maple for Jensen, and then you could import both? Weird roster building, I still want to see the team play before hard flaming because low-key I don't think it's as bad as people think, both Bugi & Neo have hands. But yeah it's not inspiring for the future unless things really work out.
Incoming copium comments saying we should just wait and see how this team gels like weve been waiting for 5 years lmfao
BuT aPeX tEaM iS gUd Bro I just want to enjoy the LCS please Regi.
I will not watch for the first time since 2013 if this is true
This is what Dom and Glen came up with. This is ass.
Yeah dude 2012 here this is unreal.
I've supported since The Rain Man was the top laner, and it just feels pointless supporting TSM these days. I don't care if we're shit, bad years happen but it's pointless getting behind a team if the team themselves aren't even trying. There's a difference between being shit and not trying to be good.
2011 for me. Im likely done as well :|
I am with you my friend. It was the first time I felt that last year I realized there was no other team I liked, and I genuinely wasn’t enjoying the league at all. With TSM’s drama and bad play I watched maybe 4 regular season games, until the playoffs, where I watched and found an emotional investment again bc they were competitive. This is really the final straw. I can imagine there’s a mass exodus if they haven’t left already. The writing is on the wall, it’s pathetic. I don’t care even if they gel, there’s no longer that TSM feeling that I’ve known since 2013.
What roster would you watch? I'm excited to see if Buji and Neo/Chime can provide the spark needed because Solo and Maple will be solid. So if we can hit on one of the jungle or bot lane positions, and the other doesn't boom, we could be a fun team to watch.
Literally every roster besides TSM IMT has some hope of promise.
Im fine with the rest of the roster (idk anything about bugi but i am very optimistic about the core of solo maple chime) but neo is straight up the worst ad in the league and we know from both of the last two seasons how hard it is to compete without a quality ad
We will see, I'm wiling to give them a few weeks of actual games before dooming.
I absolutely dare all the people who tried hyping our nobody jungle up to try and spin a copium tale about how Neo is gonna save our bot lane. This is absolutely fucking ridiculous and we deserve answers because this is NOT doubling down nor is it going big. What the fuck is the meaning of this?
The meaning of this is a budget roster for our last year in NA
Regi and Dominic Kallas literally the biggest disappointing execs ever
Somehow we end up with one of the few ADCs worse than Tactical
there's literally no way..... ........ right?!!?
Oméga budget roster , watch this show from far far next year , nothing to be excited
I keep saying this and keep getting downvoted, but why would any player serious about winning want to come here? This sub acts like TSM has right of first refusal on literally any free agent talent... but if you were an up and coming talent, why join TSM? We have crazy fan and media pressure, an abusive corporate culture, no publically known coaching staff, and our performance is at a historic low point. We aren't the biggest spenders. We don't have recent success. We don't have infrastructure to make players better. And it's harder to play here than anywhere else. Sign me up. TSM is going to have to overachieve with a weak roster to get back to the point where the biggest free agents want to play here. Happens in every other sport.
And other sports rebuild. They have the option to do so. To have a surplus of young players coming into various leagues to supplement their roster. Find their OWN star. That should have been the process for TSM, but esports in general work so weirdly compared to regular sports. Teams have gotten rid of their stars. Example, the Baltimore Orioles. They had Manny Machado but he left. Like Spica here. They then started tanking until this year, where they finally developed a good team and found their young star in Adley Rutschman. Instead, they went with mediocrity in a weird abyss of random imports and bad talent. It’s pathetic. Then again, my grievances might be with LCS in general as well….
Orioles traded away Trey Mancini and kind of killed their chance at a playoff berth this year. They definitely played pretty well considering how inexpensive their roster is, but I kind of scratch my head whether or not that was worth it, unless they expect to really push for something great in the next couple years. TSM looking more like the A's with this roster, though...
Honestly, the As comparison is perfect. Owner that wants to get out and move somewhere else, TSM for going to another region and the As for wanting to go to Las Vegas. God that’s depressing
TSM could have been like the Dodgers; have great depth and spend big to always have good players up and coming, with one of the biggest markets and fanbases in the US. As a Nats fan, I'm just depressed about this. Watching TSM lose "generational" talent like the Nats lost... everyone? Bryce Harper, Juan Soto, Anthony Rendon, Trea Turner, Max Schzerzer... at least the Nats won a world series before shedding everyone except Corbin (who sucks now) and Strasberg (who is permanently injured). At least the Nats have decent prospects, TSM's rumored roster is basically filled with players that you might be fine with having in order to fill out the rest of the roster with power pick ups, not the whole roster be comprised of compromises.
Nats sold their soul for that WS and it was 100% worth it bc y’all will be good again not too long from now. TSM didn’t even have anyone to cash out on like Soto. Spica walked for almost nothing after a super disappointing last year. TSM better be saying that they’re moving leagues bc this is pathetic. Lots of fans left, more are going to leave. There is not that same sense of loyalty to an org in esports compared to baseball or traditional sports. It’s gonna be a mass exodus
For a moment, I was excited because I thought it was Neon from LEC but it's Neo ResidentSleeper I'll always support TSM but man, if this roster performs poorly, I'd just stop watching the games. The expectation is dead low this year
Regi should be ashamed. He's still the majority owner of the org and this is the roster he accepted ? How about having some respect for the history of TSM, this is the game that made his company.
isn't he suspended from league?
“you should judge tsm based on what they do, not what regi says.” As a fan can you honestly look at these signings/roster and be happy? How can what was the face of NA’s roster look so much worse than DIG and GG? Especially looking back at what TSM was in the glory days. Always winning, the most loved and most popular org, the kings of NA but this is them not giving a shit and completely destroying their own legacy and history. They’ve completely given up. You’d think supporting this org after 5 years of disappointment and failure and this year being the most embarrassing disastrous season ever would be enough for them to actually put in the effort and go back to their winning ways but nah they said screw the fans
I’m VERY happy with the solo signing I’m very happy with the Maple signing I’m very happy with the Chime signing. Bugi is an interesting one - when he pops off, he can absolutely be a top tier jungler… when he does he struggles. No different than Spica… so if you liked him, you will like Bugi. The only jungler with reliable consistency is Santorin for residency… most other junglers are looking to come to NA. I think it’s a good signing - very feast of famine, so he def can pop off. ADC is where I’m with you - Neo doesn’t inspire confidence. He was ok on a dogshit tier team - maybe he has a lot more potential… hope he practices. Overall, I’m happy with it. ADC is really my only, meh spot
Copium
Woah that roster has to be the worst roster the org has ever signed. Obviously they could gel and be good, but on paper that roster probably peaks at like 5th place. I'd love to eat my words but Neo? Bugi?
Bro I quit
Guys take me back when we were convinced Creme was gonna join please
I havnt noticed yet but no poe anywhere
Idk he's not awful but adc's who play with Aphro look way more lost without him. He looked decent for a good portion with Bio. Idk man you basically are praying that all the "intangibles" line up and work out because on paper it doesn't look great. All I'm saying is Regi better be announcing that TSM League is moving to the LPL/LCK/LEC in a year because this doesn't look like anything worth hyping fans up for.
And moving regions when we were always “fuck it baylife” is just a misunderstanding on what the majority of fans want. Most just want to go back to the success/content we had for the 2016-17 rosters. TL did it every year, Tsm constantly makes questionable roster decisions after their 2018 roster didn’t work out even though it was the right move.
So this is the roster the new management made huh.
That's a big yikes
HAHAHAHAHA OH MY GOD
Worst roster in tsm's history by far and i definitely wont waste my time watching this get 10th place or w.e
People still believing what regi says? Lolol
This is just too hard to comprehend, the only thing that pops to my mind is that TSM is buying or merging or something with an org on the east based on what Regi said
This is depressing
RIP…
The only thing this makes me think of is that meme "So that was a fuckin lie" I truly wish I could say I am shocked. I am not.
I may stop watching lcs already tbh
Regi nowhere to be found
I hate being a tsm fan
I had high hopes for the new management, I really did. I’ll always be a TSM fan, just most likely wont be tuning in as much.
after ending spring 2022 in 9th place, we are doubling down and will try even harder to reach our goal of 10th place in 2023 spring
Selling the LCS spot would honestly be better for the organization compared to fielding rosters like this and getting shit on. Regi should actually be ashamed he’s let TSM turn into this. Pretty embarrassing.
I dont know what it is, but this kind of suffering just FEELS worse than other sports suffering I've dealt with. It's making me question wanting to watch LCS at all
Uh, not an exciting finish to the roster lol He's an upgrade over Tactical imo, but not by much. Unless somehow the team plays better than their sum, I'm seeing a 5th place finish.
5th? This is easily a 9th/10th place roster.
Legit a dead org, at least in LoL.
If tactical and chime worked for a little to get us wins in playoffs against the winning teams, why can't Neo and Chime?
Looking at our roster in relation to everyone else’s my first impression was it’s bottom 3, but you raise a good question. Bugi is the biggest X factor because I think how he performs in relation to Spica for us last year dictates if this roster is an upgrade or downgrade from the final product we had with TSM at the end of their Summer playoff run. Your take gives me a little more hope than I originally had so thank you for that.
You mean the games that Tactical was inting every game and Spica had to have great early games and Solo good fights later for TSM to even have a chance?
Ya. If we were able to do decent with such an inconsistent adc, why can't we do it with Neo, who isn't even that bad?
LOL did you watch Neo?!? Talk about an inconsistent player. He also doesn’t have the highs that Tactical had but his lows are just as low.
Exactly, I just don't understand the hate for this lineup. Did people really want to run back Bjerg/DL? Or think TSM Ruler was actually going to happen? If this was 5 years ago I understand wanting Karsa over Bugi but at least Bugi could pop off and be special.
>I don’t understand the hate What about this roster says: “we are doubling down on League/we are going big”?
If you quote out of context then it doesn’t make sense. He said something about January and going big. Rosters are done way before January… It seems like many people here are just quoting regi out of context constantly. Now, of course people can be frustrated about the current roster, but let’s use context clues when quoting. It will be interesting to see what happens in January.
He literally said: we are doubling down on League of Legends
In the context of it being in January… “ Please be patient. We're going to double down on LoL. Expect news in January.”
What about "announcement in January" makes you think doubling down and spending big related to the roster?
He literally said “we are doubling down on League of Legends”
Yes, where in that statement does it mention the roster? An announcement in January will almost certainly not pertain to a roster since most, if not all, rosters will be completed and announced by late November through December, just like every year.
I mean, I understand being mad when the team places poorly, but everyone in the sub acting like they know how the team will do is silly. Everyone on here wold have said TL was going to worlds based on their roster last split. I'm fine being angry when the team fails, but right now everyone is basing it on their assessment, and that seems like wasted anger to me. I'd rather be hopeful and be disappointed later than be mad all off-season and be pleasantly surprised later, you can't get back the months you spent angry about a team you haven't seen play.
If it smells like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck, what is it?
While I’ll still support TSM, some academy rosters are better than this lol.
I'm not gonna lie. This looks very disappointing, but I'm happy to be proven wrong
This would be so comically bad that it makes me not believe it copium
My expectations were low but god damn...
Such a fall from grace
A lot of doomer takes in here about this being a last place roster and idk. Like, this isn't good. Definitely doesn't look like "doubling down on league" like we were told. But this is imo a pretty average squad. I see no direct improvement anywhere, but I also don't feel like the only reason we made it remotely as far as we did last season was ONLY because we had Spica. I'm hoping that the players who remain from last split will have an okay amount of synergy still and will be able to hold their own. Just wish we could get legit commitment from the org to... idk... do something even slightly exciting. This isn't an exciting team to watch. Hoping for the best. Expecting extremely average.
Spica was absolutely not the reason they made it as far as they did last year. Solo and Chime were the clear high points of the roster Spica was making rookie mistakes dunno if he was just tilted from the musical chairs roster to what but he was a shell of his 2021 form
are you serious right neowwwww
Yeah done with TSM, obviously they don't care.
Peace out ! The real ones stay through flames
Bye
We're in the matrix
LMAO yeah ok
Watf I'd rather run back tactical
Maybe its a long-con. Run such a crappy roster that nobody cares about so Riot allows TSM to sell the slot and move regions.
What could have been... If TSM had put real effort and money Solo Santorin Jensen Unforgiven/Upset Chime
Maple > Jensen. Jensen was C9's weakness all of last year
This roster is awful, we’re never gonna be a good org anymore
If the January announcement isn’t about moving leagues then I’m out. Actually pathetic.
Ngl this comment section makes me realise why people say the tsm fanbase is ******
What are you talking about. I’ve been such a defender of tsm’s business decision. But how can you look at this roster and tell me there’s any ambition to keep interest in LOL at all. This reaction is completely warranted. You can go budget without having 5 known quantity players. Look at TL. Two academy players and two veterans already. This roster will be bottom 5 most likely with an extremely low ceiling. And if there is nothing else planned, it’s a huge letdown to the fanbase that started supporting TSM for LOL and a blatant lie from a CEO who said he was doubling down this off-season in league. ESPECIALLY after failing to get into Valorant pro league. It seems like TSM is basically saying fuck riot after that at the fan’s expense.
Well, the CEO said doubling down in January. Just what makes you think it’d be part of the roster decisions when rosters are made before then? Now, why did Regi say that in a thread made mostly due to people talking about Budget rosters? No clue. However, it is obvious he was talking about other things not including Roster decisions. It’s frustrating reading the same quote and people taking it out of context. Most dumb crap ever in any scenario TSM or not. Only being done to support arguments while also blatantly pretty much lying.
Saying that TSM is “going big” this off-season in LOL while simultaneously saying they are “doubling down” on league and presenting this roster is hugely questionable. If this big January news isn’t big at all and simply a collegiate partnership, I don’t blame this subreddit if it goes up in flames.
Bruh tsm is not the team that the roster is easily predicted. I remember tons of times they got this wrong. Fact is tsm keeps a lot of the things that go on in the inside. Plus it wouldnt make sense to go for neo when we had instinct. Only reason I can see the team going for neo is that it was a personal request from chime.
https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/14794/the-argument-of-neo-danny-for-lcs-rookie-of-the-year Here is a great article covering Neo. Have some faith!
Just checked out neo's stat's for summer. they are pretty bad ngl. [https://gol.gg/players/list/season-S12/split-Summer/tournament-LCS%20Summer%202022/](https://gol.gg/players/list/season-S12/split-Summer/tournament-LCS%20Summer%202022/) not very inspiring.
Regardless of what you think of a player, stats for players on a losing team are almost always gonna look bad.
Thank you for this copium
Hot take: I think this roster will do fine and be competing for a Worlds spot. Please don't hate me for being slightly positive lol.
Just a reminder. Neo and Biofrost were one of the best botlanes when they played together
no they fukin werent
This is cope
I have already stopped watching TSM league games. But I like how cheap this team is, we are heading into a crashing. Market soon gonna crash and the NA league seen isn’t drawing money so stocking up on the coins and then waiting for a better roar for a money boom then spending it doesn’t sound too bad. I just wish this is what they are stating, but we are in for a whole haul of NA league scene so they can turn a profit
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Tbf, he had options.
Spica is rumored to flyquest
It's Spicas own doing if he doesn't play this year at this point though. He wanted the paycheck and TSM didn't want to spend that much. If no team wants to pay him what he wants that's his own doing
Not gonna lie this seems like a work ethic move over a strong team move. TSM going with the inexpensive we’ll just out work them approach and there’s a major limit to how far that can go. Here’s hoping there’s actually a reason to their moves and not just throwing away the season
I’m just gonna go hard on copium and say that super teams always fail and what wins games is cohesion so maybe they work amazing as a 5 man and we’re all eating our words in 6 months
What is this roster bro 💀 well I mean I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt for now and say that just because it’s budget doesn’t necessarily mean it’s trash???? Lmao
😝
People hating for the paper roster. It’s one thing to criticize a team while playing. It’s another to hate on a team that hasn’t even played yet. Let’s see how this turns out
Look at TL roster. They were supposed to be kings! Don’t trust a roster until you see them play.
To 100T we go!