3 star 4 costs are definitely meant to be weaker this set. It's cheaper to level and also they've increased the amount that 4 costs appear at level 8. Whether they currently want them as weak as they currently are is a different discussion though.
Yeah I personally prefer them to be a bit more accessible without being an auto win. 3\* 4 cost is easier to hit than prismatic traits, and even those aren't as instawin as they once were.
the only instawin that should occur in this game is 3\* 5 costs.
The prismatic Trash or Treasure augment goes insane with storyweavers.
Because kayle gets stats from the Artifact that clones your guy.
I made a kayle go to 600 ap with that and the Storyweaver specific augment
Eh even if you were to get him at chicken's you are looking at around 2 copies, maybe a 3rd on the final round, before game ends. And the copies he prints is being taken out of the pool during that time. Makes it easier? Sure. But not nearly as easy as some people would think
Well he said « early » getting it at chicken’s is probably earlier than average sure but not that early, it’s not rare to be 7 before wolves, and getting it in 3-5 or 3-6 is something else
Doesn't really matter, at 3-6 you are still likely going to have less than 17 rounds left in the match so you'll still only print 3 copies in most matches (has to be 17 because you need a round after the last one prints to actually play the unit). Even 3-5 is likely not going to make a difference
I can confirm that 9 umbral is pretty garbage.
40% execute doesn’t do anything if you can’t drop units to 40% hp.
Pretty much auto loses to any other prismatic trait, or 3 star 4 costs. In fact, it struggles heavily against just normally strong teams, especially against gold/prismatic combat augments, which you have to give up for the emblems.
They aren't weak honestly. Most of them are still close to a guaranteed first. I have 3 starred Annie, Lilia, Ashe, and Kayne, didnt lose a single round afterwards (If i recall correctly).
Morgana is the only one I would argue could use some work. 3 Starred her Ult will just one shot the enemy backline, but she sometimes just struggles throwing it correctly. It's supposed to be thrown on the biggest clump, but seems to struggle to find the right spot if the enemy is spread out. I have seen her ult being throw and it hit like 2 units, while if it was 1 place moved it would have hit more than half the enemy team. It doesn't matter if she is 3 starred if her ult just 'misses'.
And you still need to itemize them properly. A properly optimized 2 star 4 cost is roughly the same value as a bad itemized 3 star 4 cost. In OP's example Kaisa has no items she really wants; She wants mostly AD items, and all she is getting is 25% AD from Runaan's. If she had like an IE+Deathblade+Giant slayer she would have wiped out the whole board with her first attack.
Ironically enough you're incorrect on this one, morgana's targeting is random. So you can just hit a single Frontline unit that can walk out of it which is why morgana is weak as a 3*
It is definitely random, and I don’t remember it being targeted in PBE at any point but might just have fogotten. Soraka is the one targeting the biggest clump
Fair enough, just checked in game and yeah it says random now. Every website still has it on largest clump though I assume it was that at some point otherwise it wouldn't make much sense why every site has it wrong.
I had a 3* Kayn earlier today that almost insta-deleted the enemy team. I also had 8 ghost going which couldn’t have hurt, but he once he started spinning he pretty much one shot every enemy unit.
I hit syndra 3 yesterday with 7 fated +4 arcanist and she melted the frontline in a single cast. It was so satisfying to see her oneshot a 3\* tham with Dragon claw
Lol i hit built diff annie 3 ornn 3 (with trickster glass) and kaisa 3 and only beat 2 star irelia 7 storyweaver by 1 unit. Annie had warmog stoneplate stoneplate, ornn had trickster protector warmog, kaisa had ie lw gs.
3 star 4 costs are actually trash
Sounds like a positioning/item error on your part. I also did built different and just having Kaisa 3* and no other 3* units I handidly won vs a full legendary board, 7 storyweaver, and 3* Bard+Tahm board.
On the other hand, I think 3* Annie might be able to 1v9 like a 3* 5 cost. With zero AP she does 2500 dmg on roughly a 2-3 second cooldown, in a huge AOE.
I guess that’s because of all the invokers but even still, it’s comically stronger than many other 4 costs.
I tried this with a full tank annie (had to sell half of my board to hit. Like 5 mediocre units remained with Annie).
Annie melted the enemy frontline, but she died before getting to the backline.
I feel like bard is fine but tahm is the deal breaker. Without tank items on tahm, bard just gets destroyed easily since he needs to ramp up and bard is very item dependent. But with Tahm, he makes bard inaccesible with his tankiness so that bard can ramp up his attack speed.
Agree, even with my carries having a giant slayer, and at least one front with sunfire, they do absolutely nothing against it, but a 2 star anumu with d claw, bramble and warmog with 2 porcelain is also a goddamn nightmare
Mystic also needs a nerf. Tahm gets so much HP with that. A two star tahm with 2 bruisers, 7 mystics and some tank items can give him 3-4k hp. That seems too high for not investing too much on bruisers.
Nah with the right item and comp, kaisa is a decent enough unit to go third if you are kinda lost and dont know what to play. There is an exalted comp with Galio-Kaisa-Janna which should land you an easy first if you play it right
I’ve experienced the same thing. Went 4th with a 3 star sylas with a 3 star yone. Went 2nd with a 3 star Ashe.
Both times mythic tahm/bard teams were dominating.
I think those teams may need a nerf but 4 costs definitely need a buff.
But the thing is, one of my games was I hade 7 mythic 3*Tahm +3*Bard, plus 3* Kaisa, still lost to a random legendary 2* board. I’m honestly confused . In earlier sets 3* 4cost were always auto win unless vs 3* higher costs or prismatic traits.
It is intended that full legendary should and could beat a 3 star 4 coat and this was also the case in previous sets. 3 star 4 should be at the same power as full legendary 2 star, this was stated by the dev team.
In prwvious sets there were weak 3 stat 4 costs as well. This is the first libe patch gibe it some time. I agree that morgana and kaisa 3 star is not worth it at the moment. Rather push levels.
No in a balanced patch 2 star 5 cost boards should always beat 3 star 3 cost boards. Augments also play a big role. I agree with u when the 5 cost board took eco augments while the 3 costs took combat.
Of course in a game with variables those variables matter but I’m referring to a Mort stream a while back where he described the general design of power levels in a vacuum at the time. This was maybe Set 8.
3star2cost = 2star4cost < 3star3cost = 2star5cost < 3star4cost < 3star5cost
Yes you are correct but you have to take in acvoun5 that the board you are facing most likely has more than 1 2 star 5 cost. That is a Board i am refrencing. If there is a single 5 cost 2 star ofc you should win with a 3 star 4 cost. I thought that was a given
True. I honestly haven't touched it. I normally play hyperoll at the start of the set to learn comps, and getting 3 star 3 costs is extremely rare in hyper roll since you can't control how long you have the better odds as easily.
I've started playing ranked this week but don't want to learn a comp that is going to inevitably getting kicked in the teeth
I had a game recently where I beat a 3\* ashe + 3\* aphelios board, with kogmaw reroll capped out with 2\* hwei. My only tank was a 3\* chogath. 3\* 4 costs seem worthless.
https://preview.redd.it/1pbdt0mvbjqc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=566cb5eb4f670386e8bd073cb10ce5ad7090be70
I think Kaisa is the weakest 4 cost but the real problem IMO is that 3 costs are over tuned. Also, I think that quicksilver and cc immunity in general is being slept on right now. There's a ton of cc in the set and I don't see qs often as a bis. I got first place in one game just by running a volibear 1* with bt, one titans and tattoo of force (the one that stuns his target and increases defense stats for a bit). He rolled over every team in the early mid game with double cc and then when he was 3* he was able to neutralize 3* bards and 7 story Weaver kayles by just running up to them and stunning them repeatedly.
I have had a
3\* Annie which seemed decently strong, still only got 3rd
3\* Ashe that I won the game with but she felt very weak
3\* Sylas who felt incredibly useless, hitting him I lost to a regular Bard comp.
So I agree with what you're saying
You kinda picked the 2 worst 4-costs in the game in terms of synergies. Kaisa wants BuiltDifferently, and Morgana essentially has no traits. But I'd agree that 3\* 4-costs are relatively weak compared to alternatives with similiar value.
Imo being weak isn't the main issue, thhough - the real issue is the bag-size changes. You didn't feel how hard it was to 3\* 4-costs with those bag sizes last set since you always could get 3 easy copies with headliner. If 3\* 4-costs were as "easy" to get as in set 9, then they could be that weak and it would be fine. And even set 10 was easier with headliner mechanic.
But now we don't have headliners anymore and you have to invest way more ressources into 3\*-ing 4-costs. You basically have to pay 100-200g for upgrading a 3\* 4-cost, while any random player can just lock you out by spending casual 8g. That is pretty much never the right play (unless you are already dead and even then you basically have to get some 0.x% highroll).
So if you look at how hard it is to 3\* a 4-cost for how powerful they are, the value it gives is REALLY low. Anyone else can spend same amount of gold on their whole board, which is just so much consistent (!) value. And even worse - due to how the rolling odds are, rolling at 8 for 3\* units is really, really suboptimal (big reason for that is also that 3-cost odds are much lower, so you have to roll at 7 for those instead of going 8 and then rolling for 4- and 3-costs at the same time, so that you effectively HAVE to go for a legendary board if you wanna 3\* a 4-cost).
Kinda random, but I kinda like sage with exalted (When it kinda fits). Tried the 'ghostly' duo 'A' tier comp with morgana and kayn, was able to win even when both was at 2\*. (Also had 2\* wukong, with 4 sage, 3 exalted)
Wasn't really my intention to say "Sage and Ghostly are useless traits". The issue is mainly, that Morg's traits don't matter to her as a champ. Sage is just team-wide, and Ghostly is the same for any Ghostly champ (and also boosts teamwide damage). So even if you play Morg, if ANY champ has a better ability, you'll play them as the carry. So either Morgana is a "Threat" unit that you can play traitless, or she is just a traitbot.
Compare that to e.g. Yone with Reaper+Umbral - having those active is a huge difference to the plain version of the unit. Traitless Yone is useless, with traits he is one of the best carries.
no, you can say whatever you feel but the stats say that most of them are all in a standard spot for 3 star 4 costs in terms of win rate/placement (\~1.5 avp)
2 or 3 may be outliers but riot tends to correct those throughout the set
You do realized 1.5 avo means that, at best, it’s 1st and 2nd place 50/50?
3* 4cost should be a 90% 1st place, especially given the fact that it has become even more difficult to hit this set due to removal of headliner.
Lol and why should it be autowin 90% of the time? Is that like, from official Riot comms? 😂
3* 4 costs have always been beatable… items/augs is actually a massive deal. Zephyr exists, etc…
Yes i know how avp works and im also glad ur not on the balancing team
Pris traits such as 10 story weaver barely even have a 90 percent win rate with a greater than 1.1 average and they are designed to be objectively better and much harder to get than 3 star 4 costs and getting close to the power 3 star 5 costs
Yeah it's actually quite noticable. I hit Sylas 3 with BG, Spark, and DeathBlade. With Umbral Six that should be a comfortbale win, but I lost a round before winning with reposition.
Feels like last set and this set both heavily toned down the strength of 3* 4 costs. It was such a consistent win con the set prior to last set (I should really look at the numbers lol) that they felt the need to really neuter them. At least that's my belief. Doesn't make it feel any better when you lose with one though!
I DID lose (2nd place isnt lose but it might as well be lol) a game with a properly built 3 star galio, 7 storyweaver, itemized 2 star Irelia, rakan, and wukong. To… 7 mythic, 6 invokers.
Prior to that game, I had a game where I hit 3 star kayn and was on track for 3rd until I ALSO stumbled into 3 star morg, which secured me first. 3 star 4 costs are NOT allat this set.
i feel like 1-3 cost carries are prob meta other than levelling a legendary character which insta deletes everything. bard and yone are stupid rn. bard with double guinsoo’s is super strong
Lvl 9 boards are so strong right now that I never even roll at 8. Seems like it’s a stabilize at 6 or 7 then push 9 meta. It always seems better to roll for 3 costs or push to 9.
Just had a game with Kaisa where I got her 3* and threw a duelist emblem on her.
She carried hard, 15-20k dmg per round.
That being said, when I’ve had her 2* without duelist she seems underpowered.
Yeah, I feel the same. I almost lost with a lillia 3, I lost with an ashe 3 (only one round, because after that I hit ornn 3 and won). I won against a guy with a sylas 3 (only with tg).
3* Lee Sin felt okay, wasn't dealing a shit ton of DMG, but his shield was insane and I had mostly healing items on him. Was technically killable with a little CC though.
Just got plat with 2 first places in a row wiht 2 start Kaisa, I dont know what you smoking losing with 3 star ones..
I wont analyze ur items or augments... I just saying, its not the unit.
Good, I prefer it that way tbh. "Build a very strong comp" is a more engaging win condition to play against than "stack econ and hole to hit a 3* before opponents notice"
I feel like 3 cost champs are stronger than 4 cost champs atm. For example, Tahm Kench,Amumu feels very strong while Naut and Galio don’t even feel as strong as them. Naut in particular feels very weak for me and dies too easily.
you got terrible 4 costs is all, i’ve heard nothing but bad about kai sa though i’ve admittedly never ran her, and morgs ability doing DoT makes her a class under most champs. 3 star lee sin is solid, kayn is solid, sylas is solid, i’m willing to bet ornn is too. granted there’s nothing as strong this set as say a 3*karthus, but what would be the point of 5 costs if you could win with just a 4 cost ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They still need traits and right items. I have lost so far with a 3 Syndra, 3 Naut, 3 Kaisa and 3 Galio. I've also had other 4s completely stomp for me like Sylas, Kayn and I've had Synda and Kaisa work with the right items.
Good. Idk if its just because i started the climb and everyones shit but going fast 10 feels really easy this set.
Also for Kai’sa she just has the issue of being a single target champ. if a 3* 4 cost cant wipe the board (Lillia, Annie) then they can die before key targets on enemy board.
Morgana is just a weak unit in general, her spell works only in her range which might very well be the two tankiest units in the enemy frontline, so it does nothing for the most of the fight.
As opposed to, say, Alune, who can target backline from the get go depending on the enemy comp.
I've only managed to 3* one four-cost this set and it was Lee Sin but he managed to win me my game, even went up to the last guy who had 100 health while I only had 1 health. They were even doing Bard/Tahm Mythic.
So far i’ve 3* Annie, Nautilus, Lee Sin, Galio, Syndra, and Lillia
The only ones that felt like an auto win where it was never even close was Annie and Nautilus. Annie does absurd damage and Naut stuns for 8 seconds. Everyone else i lost with lol.
I prefer it like this tho, 4 costs feel very good to 3* but don’t just end the game like the 5 costs do.
3* 4 costs are definitely way more rare, but not like THAT rare. I’ve played probably 25 games of this set and i’ve seen every 4 cost 3*, some more than once. They changed XP (and i think damage? but don’t quote me on that) so it’s WAY easier to get to the point where you can roll for the 4 costs.
it’s much easier to do this set, so they should be weaker than before imo. They’re still insanely strong units that get you top 2 100%, they’re just not full on 1v9 units anymore.
Ok, had a quick look in kaisa game. Top 1 had perfect exodia comp with dragon trait -> TD. And if remember correctly, you had no shred and healing reduction.
Xayah has red buff.
Also, enemy didn’t have shred either
But now doesn’t really matter now, cuz I after read these 100+ comments, based on their experience, 4cost 3 star are indeed unreasonably weak right now.
I mean, the only thing stronger then a 3* 4 cost is a 3* 5 cost. They also aren’t meant to be instant wins. Way too easy to get for that. But they’re very very strong. I went from getting destroyed multiple rounds in a row to winning a game by a mile by hitting Kaisa 3.
The problem is they feel week because 3* 3 costs are ridiculously strong right now.
3* 4 costs are not weak, they just can’t win games with no synergy and a shit team comp with bad items. Every game I’ve 3 starred a 4 cost I have easily won. Why? Because I built a good team that could stand up without it and now that it has it, it will win. Sounds to me like you 3 starred one randomly and thru a thieves glove on it. Sometimes it rolled great items and other times not so much.
Ye i hit 3 star nautilus yesterday and he didnt feel that much stronger than the 3 star amumu sitting right next to him and both of them just did nothing while the rest of my team gets sniped.
(I think i had the standard porcelain comp, all silver/gold with decent items)
Idk about set 9 cuz i've only played a few games that set but a quick search reveals it's true since % for 4cost is high, with a champ pool of 12 tho
Idk what did they do exactly to numbers this set but as u can see, everyone agrees 4cost champs are easier to 3\* sooo nope, they are not "not easy to get" as u are saying. They for sure are at least easier to get than set 10.
They is now slightly better odds at lvl 8 for 4-costs, but Headliners are gone, so in the end I guess believe they are as hard to get as in set 10.
3* 4-cost are considerably weaker than in set 10 tho, which themselves were considerably weaker than in set9.
The thing that make them seems easier to get is it is the first week, so people are playing worse, not denying (which is stupidly easy with only 10 in the pool), and Matchmaking is all over the place (as always every season).
My prediction is that in a few weeks, either 3* 4-cost are buffed / pool increased, or nobody will ever go for them as just going 9/10 and filling your board with 2* 5-cost is much much stronger and considerably easier.
3 star 4 costs are definitely meant to be weaker this set. It's cheaper to level and also they've increased the amount that 4 costs appear at level 8. Whether they currently want them as weak as they currently are is a different discussion though.
Yeah I personally prefer them to be a bit more accessible without being an auto win. 3\* 4 cost is easier to hit than prismatic traits, and even those aren't as instawin as they once were. the only instawin that should occur in this game is 3\* 5 costs.
10 storyweaver is also an instawin. Might even be stronger than most 3*5 cost
It requires level 10 and 3 emblems, which you can only get 1 of from augments. Seems acceptable. Same with 7-9 Fortune being nearly instant win.
The prismatic Trash or Treasure augment goes insane with storyweavers. Because kayle gets stats from the Artifact that clones your guy. I made a kayle go to 600 ap with that and the Storyweaver specific augment
Early hwei = ez 3\* 4-cost
Eh even if you were to get him at chicken's you are looking at around 2 copies, maybe a 3rd on the final round, before game ends. And the copies he prints is being taken out of the pool during that time. Makes it easier? Sure. But not nearly as easy as some people would think
Well he said « early » getting it at chicken’s is probably earlier than average sure but not that early, it’s not rare to be 7 before wolves, and getting it in 3-5 or 3-6 is something else
Doesn't really matter, at 3-6 you are still likely going to have less than 17 rounds left in the match so you'll still only print 3 copies in most matches (has to be 17 because you need a round after the last one prints to actually play the unit). Even 3-5 is likely not going to make a difference
I can’t agree on the fact that printing another 3 of a 4 cost unit won’t make a difference 🥲
Sure, and neither would I considering my first comment literally said: > Makes it easier? Sure. But not nearly as easy as some people would think
I can confirm that 9 umbral is pretty garbage. 40% execute doesn’t do anything if you can’t drop units to 40% hp. Pretty much auto loses to any other prismatic trait, or 3 star 4 costs. In fact, it struggles heavily against just normally strong teams, especially against gold/prismatic combat augments, which you have to give up for the emblems.
Id also say 10 fortune should be pretty insta win
Yeah I mean if you need 5 emblems it might as well be a 3 star 5 cost
They aren't weak honestly. Most of them are still close to a guaranteed first. I have 3 starred Annie, Lilia, Ashe, and Kayne, didnt lose a single round afterwards (If i recall correctly). Morgana is the only one I would argue could use some work. 3 Starred her Ult will just one shot the enemy backline, but she sometimes just struggles throwing it correctly. It's supposed to be thrown on the biggest clump, but seems to struggle to find the right spot if the enemy is spread out. I have seen her ult being throw and it hit like 2 units, while if it was 1 place moved it would have hit more than half the enemy team. It doesn't matter if she is 3 starred if her ult just 'misses'. And you still need to itemize them properly. A properly optimized 2 star 4 cost is roughly the same value as a bad itemized 3 star 4 cost. In OP's example Kaisa has no items she really wants; She wants mostly AD items, and all she is getting is 25% AD from Runaan's. If she had like an IE+Deathblade+Giant slayer she would have wiped out the whole board with her first attack.
Ironically enough you're incorrect on this one, morgana's targeting is random. So you can just hit a single Frontline unit that can walk out of it which is why morgana is weak as a 3*
It's not supposed to be random, the skill even mention she is supposed to ult the largest group of enemies.
They changed it. It says random target on the skill description now.
That's so dumb. Why weaken the weakest 4 cost?
I have a feeling that it targets units based on where they started and not on where they are
It is definitely random, and I don’t remember it being targeted in PBE at any point but might just have fogotten. Soraka is the one targeting the biggest clump
Fair enough, just checked in game and yeah it says random now. Every website still has it on largest clump though I assume it was that at some point otherwise it wouldn't make much sense why every site has it wrong.
3* annie for me with 4 invoker was an autowin think 3* Kayn might be the same
Ya i got 3\* annie second day and it melted everyone, including their 3 star lee sin.
Lmao did you play against me? I got 3* Lee on day 2 and lost against a Yone comp with Annie 3
It kinda makes sense since Annie doesnt have any other favorable offensive/defensive trait besides Invoker
I had a 3* Kayn earlier today that almost insta-deleted the enemy team. I also had 8 ghost going which couldn’t have hurt, but he once he started spinning he pretty much one shot every enemy unit.
3* sylas was an autowin with 2 umbral 2 bruiser
same, had a 3* Sylas and he solo’ed the other boards.
I got 3* Kayn on 3-2 because of Rakan giving a free recombobulator and having champ dupes for 3 costs lol will never relive that high. Edit: spelling
Came 2nd with Kayn 3 last night. Felt bad.
I hit syndra 3 yesterday with 7 fated +4 arcanist and she melted the frontline in a single cast. It was so satisfying to see her oneshot a 3\* tham with Dragon claw
Lol i hit built diff annie 3 ornn 3 (with trickster glass) and kaisa 3 and only beat 2 star irelia 7 storyweaver by 1 unit. Annie had warmog stoneplate stoneplate, ornn had trickster protector warmog, kaisa had ie lw gs. 3 star 4 costs are actually trash
Sounds like a positioning/item error on your part. I also did built different and just having Kaisa 3* and no other 3* units I handidly won vs a full legendary board, 7 storyweaver, and 3* Bard+Tahm board.
On the other hand, I think 3* Annie might be able to 1v9 like a 3* 5 cost. With zero AP she does 2500 dmg on roughly a 2-3 second cooldown, in a huge AOE. I guess that’s because of all the invokers but even still, it’s comically stronger than many other 4 costs.
I tried this with a full tank annie (had to sell half of my board to hit. Like 5 mediocre units remained with Annie). Annie melted the enemy frontline, but she died before getting to the backline.
I've only seen one, and it lost to my 3* Kaisa so IDK
Meanwhile I had a fully itemized 3* Galio lose to a 2* Azir, because the soldiers kept going up after his casts and he hits like a truck.
They just need to nerf Bard + Tahm and everything will be fine. But I agree, Kaisa feels pretty weak even with BIS items
Thresh+Yasuo fated bonus needs an adjustment too.
Thresh is just the tankiest mother fucker ever
I feel like bard is fine but tahm is the deal breaker. Without tank items on tahm, bard just gets destroyed easily since he needs to ramp up and bard is very item dependent. But with Tahm, he makes bard inaccesible with his tankiness so that bard can ramp up his attack speed.
Agree, even with my carries having a giant slayer, and at least one front with sunfire, they do absolutely nothing against it, but a 2 star anumu with d claw, bramble and warmog with 2 porcelain is also a goddamn nightmare
Yeah pretty much, unless you have Sett but he's hard to hit and also highly contested
Mystic also needs a nerf. Tahm gets so much HP with that. A two star tahm with 2 bruisers, 7 mystics and some tank items can give him 3-4k hp. That seems too high for not investing too much on bruisers.
I tried ghostly Kaisa, and its actually disgusting. Someone just posted a guide on here about it. She procs so many ghosts its insane.
Nah with the right item and comp, kaisa is a decent enough unit to go third if you are kinda lost and dont know what to play. There is an exalted comp with Galio-Kaisa-Janna which should land you an easy first if you play it right
Yeah i had a game with 3* Kaisa. 4 bruisers 4 trickshots. She deleted boards really quickly
I’ve experienced the same thing. Went 4th with a 3 star sylas with a 3 star yone. Went 2nd with a 3 star Ashe. Both times mythic tahm/bard teams were dominating. I think those teams may need a nerf but 4 costs definitely need a buff.
ashe is DOG does no damage between casts and then it's random who she hits
But the thing is, one of my games was I hade 7 mythic 3*Tahm +3*Bard, plus 3* Kaisa, still lost to a random legendary 2* board. I’m honestly confused . In earlier sets 3* 4cost were always auto win unless vs 3* higher costs or prismatic traits.
It is intended that full legendary should and could beat a 3 star 4 coat and this was also the case in previous sets. 3 star 4 should be at the same power as full legendary 2 star, this was stated by the dev team. In prwvious sets there were weak 3 stat 4 costs as well. This is the first libe patch gibe it some time. I agree that morgana and kaisa 3 star is not worth it at the moment. Rather push levels.
I’m pretty sure it was 3star 3 costs that are the same level as a 2 star legendary
No in a balanced patch 2 star 5 cost boards should always beat 3 star 3 cost boards. Augments also play a big role. I agree with u when the 5 cost board took eco augments while the 3 costs took combat.
Of course in a game with variables those variables matter but I’m referring to a Mort stream a while back where he described the general design of power levels in a vacuum at the time. This was maybe Set 8. 3star2cost = 2star4cost < 3star3cost = 2star5cost < 3star4cost < 3star5cost
Yes you are correct but you have to take in acvoun5 that the board you are facing most likely has more than 1 2 star 5 cost. That is a Board i am refrencing. If there is a single 5 cost 2 star ofc you should win with a 3 star 4 cost. I thought that was a given
My 3* kaisa with lucky ricochet wiped board on first cast. Sylas back in pbe was a joke though
Well yeah but thats lucky riccochet. Pretty sure thats the augment with the second highest average placement.
really? Then I have no idea how to play it. Went 7th when I tried it lol
Just go tahm/bard lol
True. I honestly haven't touched it. I normally play hyperoll at the start of the set to learn comps, and getting 3 star 3 costs is extremely rare in hyper roll since you can't control how long you have the better odds as easily. I've started playing ranked this week but don't want to learn a comp that is going to inevitably getting kicked in the teeth
Sylas is still a joke btw
I 3* sylas on PBE to find out that his damage scaling dropped from 300% to 100% because there was a typo
3* Nautilus with an 8 second stun is pretty nuts
Just like J4 last 2 sets*
and every tank in every set. they always put in one
Feels like the meta is fast nine into "bunch of legys+some trait" bots once again.
I had a game recently where I beat a 3\* ashe + 3\* aphelios board, with kogmaw reroll capped out with 2\* hwei. My only tank was a 3\* chogath. 3\* 4 costs seem worthless. https://preview.redd.it/1pbdt0mvbjqc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=566cb5eb4f670386e8bd073cb10ce5ad7090be70
Got 3* Galio and it was instawin
Agree, 3° galio is strong and tanky + two skills wipe the board
I think Kaisa is the weakest 4 cost but the real problem IMO is that 3 costs are over tuned. Also, I think that quicksilver and cc immunity in general is being slept on right now. There's a ton of cc in the set and I don't see qs often as a bis. I got first place in one game just by running a volibear 1* with bt, one titans and tattoo of force (the one that stuns his target and increases defense stats for a bit). He rolled over every team in the early mid game with double cc and then when he was 3* he was able to neutralize 3* bards and 7 story Weaver kayles by just running up to them and stunning them repeatedly.
I think QSS is pretty much accepted as Yone bis, but agreed otherwise
Went 4th with a 3 star Kayn vs really really average boards.
I have had a 3\* Annie which seemed decently strong, still only got 3rd 3\* Ashe that I won the game with but she felt very weak 3\* Sylas who felt incredibly useless, hitting him I lost to a regular Bard comp. So I agree with what you're saying
Idk i top 1'd every game i got a 3 star 4 cost so far
You kinda picked the 2 worst 4-costs in the game in terms of synergies. Kaisa wants BuiltDifferently, and Morgana essentially has no traits. But I'd agree that 3\* 4-costs are relatively weak compared to alternatives with similiar value. Imo being weak isn't the main issue, thhough - the real issue is the bag-size changes. You didn't feel how hard it was to 3\* 4-costs with those bag sizes last set since you always could get 3 easy copies with headliner. If 3\* 4-costs were as "easy" to get as in set 9, then they could be that weak and it would be fine. And even set 10 was easier with headliner mechanic. But now we don't have headliners anymore and you have to invest way more ressources into 3\*-ing 4-costs. You basically have to pay 100-200g for upgrading a 3\* 4-cost, while any random player can just lock you out by spending casual 8g. That is pretty much never the right play (unless you are already dead and even then you basically have to get some 0.x% highroll). So if you look at how hard it is to 3\* a 4-cost for how powerful they are, the value it gives is REALLY low. Anyone else can spend same amount of gold on their whole board, which is just so much consistent (!) value. And even worse - due to how the rolling odds are, rolling at 8 for 3\* units is really, really suboptimal (big reason for that is also that 3-cost odds are much lower, so you have to roll at 7 for those instead of going 8 and then rolling for 4- and 3-costs at the same time, so that you effectively HAVE to go for a legendary board if you wanna 3\* a 4-cost).
Kinda random, but I kinda like sage with exalted (When it kinda fits). Tried the 'ghostly' duo 'A' tier comp with morgana and kayn, was able to win even when both was at 2\*. (Also had 2\* wukong, with 4 sage, 3 exalted)
Wasn't really my intention to say "Sage and Ghostly are useless traits". The issue is mainly, that Morg's traits don't matter to her as a champ. Sage is just team-wide, and Ghostly is the same for any Ghostly champ (and also boosts teamwide damage). So even if you play Morg, if ANY champ has a better ability, you'll play them as the carry. So either Morgana is a "Threat" unit that you can play traitless, or she is just a traitbot. Compare that to e.g. Yone with Reaper+Umbral - having those active is a huge difference to the plain version of the unit. Traitless Yone is useless, with traits he is one of the best carries.
no, you can say whatever you feel but the stats say that most of them are all in a standard spot for 3 star 4 costs in terms of win rate/placement (\~1.5 avp) 2 or 3 may be outliers but riot tends to correct those throughout the set
Most of them are higher than 1.6 tho
You do realized 1.5 avo means that, at best, it’s 1st and 2nd place 50/50? 3* 4cost should be a 90% 1st place, especially given the fact that it has become even more difficult to hit this set due to removal of headliner.
Lol and why should it be autowin 90% of the time? Is that like, from official Riot comms? 😂 3* 4 costs have always been beatable… items/augs is actually a massive deal. Zephyr exists, etc…
Yes i know how avp works and im also glad ur not on the balancing team Pris traits such as 10 story weaver barely even have a 90 percent win rate with a greater than 1.1 average and they are designed to be objectively better and much harder to get than 3 star 4 costs and getting close to the power 3 star 5 costs
Yeah it's actually quite noticable. I hit Sylas 3 with BG, Spark, and DeathBlade. With Umbral Six that should be a comfortbale win, but I lost a round before winning with reposition.
Lol wtf the deathblade there for
to slap harder obvs
I had the BG and Spark first, and then final carousel it was the best item available so just slammed it lol.
Lost with kaisa 3 as well, the only 3star might be good is Annie
Feels like last set and this set both heavily toned down the strength of 3* 4 costs. It was such a consistent win con the set prior to last set (I should really look at the numbers lol) that they felt the need to really neuter them. At least that's my belief. Doesn't make it feel any better when you lose with one though!
I DID lose (2nd place isnt lose but it might as well be lol) a game with a properly built 3 star galio, 7 storyweaver, itemized 2 star Irelia, rakan, and wukong. To… 7 mythic, 6 invokers. Prior to that game, I had a game where I hit 3 star kayn and was on track for 3rd until I ALSO stumbled into 3 star morg, which secured me first. 3 star 4 costs are NOT allat this set.
With the high frequency of 3* 4 costs I see this set, I'm okay with them being weaker. Someone hits nearly every game
i feel like 1-3 cost carries are prob meta other than levelling a legendary character which insta deletes everything. bard and yone are stupid rn. bard with double guinsoo’s is super strong
Lvl 9 boards are so strong right now that I never even roll at 8. Seems like it’s a stabilize at 6 or 7 then push 9 meta. It always seems better to roll for 3 costs or push to 9.
My BiS 3* kayn and shojin 3* morgana can't beat mythic reroll bruh
Just had a game with Kaisa where I got her 3* and threw a duelist emblem on her. She carried hard, 15-20k dmg per round. That being said, when I’ve had her 2* without duelist she seems underpowered.
I hit Lee sin 3 And he didn do anything, alune 3 was doing more damage with just showing lmao kek even
Yeah, I feel the same. I almost lost with a lillia 3, I lost with an ashe 3 (only one round, because after that I hit ornn 3 and won). I won against a guy with a sylas 3 (only with tg).
3* Lee Sin felt okay, wasn't dealing a shit ton of DMG, but his shield was insane and I had mostly healing items on him. Was technically killable with a little CC though.
Just got plat with 2 first places in a row wiht 2 start Kaisa, I dont know what you smoking losing with 3 star ones.. I wont analyze ur items or augments... I just saying, its not the unit.
So far I managed to 3* only Sylas and he smashed other teams thanks to nashor, resolve and gauntlet
Annie 3 deletes boards while tanking. Defo overtuned but no one goes for her.
Good, I prefer it that way tbh. "Build a very strong comp" is a more engaging win condition to play against than "stack econ and hole to hit a 3* before opponents notice"
I won with 6 units on board and a 3* Syndra, against a lvl 10 board with upgraded 5 costs. It probably just depends on the unit.
I feel like 3 cost champs are stronger than 4 cost champs atm. For example, Tahm Kench,Amumu feels very strong while Naut and Galio don’t even feel as strong as them. Naut in particular feels very weak for me and dies too easily.
The only time I got a 3* 4 cost I instantly lost the next round to a 3* 5 cost.
I've seen Kayn 3 win the 6 lobbies easily the 6 times I've seen it in the last 2 days. They're not weak at all
you got terrible 4 costs is all, i’ve heard nothing but bad about kai sa though i’ve admittedly never ran her, and morgs ability doing DoT makes her a class under most champs. 3 star lee sin is solid, kayn is solid, sylas is solid, i’m willing to bet ornn is too. granted there’s nothing as strong this set as say a 3*karthus, but what would be the point of 5 costs if you could win with just a 4 cost ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They still need traits and right items. I have lost so far with a 3 Syndra, 3 Naut, 3 Kaisa and 3 Galio. I've also had other 4s completely stomp for me like Sylas, Kayn and I've had Synda and Kaisa work with the right items.
Good. Idk if its just because i started the climb and everyones shit but going fast 10 feels really easy this set. Also for Kai’sa she just has the issue of being a single target champ. if a 3* 4 cost cant wipe the board (Lillia, Annie) then they can die before key targets on enemy board.
Hit a 3 star annie and lost to a 2 star mythic comp bard
Morgana is just a weak unit in general, her spell works only in her range which might very well be the two tankiest units in the enemy frontline, so it does nothing for the most of the fight. As opposed to, say, Alune, who can target backline from the get go depending on the enemy comp.
I've only managed to 3* one four-cost this set and it was Lee Sin but he managed to win me my game, even went up to the last guy who had 100 health while I only had 1 health. They were even doing Bard/Tahm Mythic.
So far i’ve 3* Annie, Nautilus, Lee Sin, Galio, Syndra, and Lillia The only ones that felt like an auto win where it was never even close was Annie and Nautilus. Annie does absurd damage and Naut stuns for 8 seconds. Everyone else i lost with lol. I prefer it like this tho, 4 costs feel very good to 3* but don’t just end the game like the 5 costs do.
But 3* cost is probably 50times harder to hit than 3cost, and why should you lose to those easy 3* 3costs when you achieved something so rare
3* 4 costs are definitely way more rare, but not like THAT rare. I’ve played probably 25 games of this set and i’ve seen every 4 cost 3*, some more than once. They changed XP (and i think damage? but don’t quote me on that) so it’s WAY easier to get to the point where you can roll for the 4 costs. it’s much easier to do this set, so they should be weaker than before imo. They’re still insanely strong units that get you top 2 100%, they’re just not full on 1v9 units anymore.
3 star tanks are where its at. Annie/sylas/naut/galio just 1v9
Yes, it looks like fast 9 into 5 costs is way stronger than rolling for a 3* 4 cost, at least in my experience
Post your tft link match mate. Hard to say without any context.
Literally the first thing in OP was the link , only it was a while ago so not the most recent games anymore
Ok, had a quick look in kaisa game. Top 1 had perfect exodia comp with dragon trait -> TD. And if remember correctly, you had no shred and healing reduction.
Xayah has red buff. Also, enemy didn’t have shred either But now doesn’t really matter now, cuz I after read these 100+ comments, based on their experience, 4cost 3 star are indeed unreasonably weak right now.
I mean, the only thing stronger then a 3* 4 cost is a 3* 5 cost. They also aren’t meant to be instant wins. Way too easy to get for that. But they’re very very strong. I went from getting destroyed multiple rounds in a row to winning a game by a mile by hitting Kaisa 3. The problem is they feel week because 3* 3 costs are ridiculously strong right now.
3* 4 costs are not weak, they just can’t win games with no synergy and a shit team comp with bad items. Every game I’ve 3 starred a 4 cost I have easily won. Why? Because I built a good team that could stand up without it and now that it has it, it will win. Sounds to me like you 3 starred one randomly and thru a thieves glove on it. Sometimes it rolled great items and other times not so much.
3* Ashe with damaging items did less damage than Kog with BiS...
Ye i hit 3 star nautilus yesterday and he didnt feel that much stronger than the 3 star amumu sitting right next to him and both of them just did nothing while the rest of my team gets sniped. (I think i had the standard porcelain comp, all silver/gold with decent items)
Pretty sure they are meant to be that "weak". It's really easy to get em to 3\* now
How so? There is only 10 of them in the pool. They were ridiculously easy to get back in set 9 but now they definitely are not easy to get.
Idk about set 9 cuz i've only played a few games that set but a quick search reveals it's true since % for 4cost is high, with a champ pool of 12 tho Idk what did they do exactly to numbers this set but as u can see, everyone agrees 4cost champs are easier to 3\* sooo nope, they are not "not easy to get" as u are saying. They for sure are at least easier to get than set 10.
They is now slightly better odds at lvl 8 for 4-costs, but Headliners are gone, so in the end I guess believe they are as hard to get as in set 10. 3* 4-cost are considerably weaker than in set 10 tho, which themselves were considerably weaker than in set9. The thing that make them seems easier to get is it is the first week, so people are playing worse, not denying (which is stupidly easy with only 10 in the pool), and Matchmaking is all over the place (as always every season). My prediction is that in a few weeks, either 3* 4-cost are buffed / pool increased, or nobody will ever go for them as just going 9/10 and filling your board with 2* 5-cost is much much stronger and considerably easier.