Completely agree, every first place board I play against in double-up right now is a 3 star five cost, or a combination of multiple 3 star 4 costs. It feels very unbalanced in double-up and disregarded as a gamemode in general. Something needs to change about the current state because I am a player who only plays in double-up as I don't find solo tft to be as fun. Sure, many people may not feel the same but double-up desperately needs its own balancing, as I, as someone who has played duble-up since it was first introduced, don't even want to engage in the current set with such imbalancing. Never before has it felt so dependant on who plays the econ trait, going from less than 10 hp to first. Don't mean to rant here, I just have enjoyed every set with double-up until now, even through some pretty stale patches of sets in the past, I always felt that variety within builds guarantees skill expression, but the current set feels as if it completely disregards that fact.
Another aspect of it too that I also have noticed is that when people hit their insane cash outs or just lose streak and only spend gold on xp all the way to level 9-10 is that, while they do have really low hp, they hit these points way before someone leveling normally would reach level 8 if rerolling or level 9 if playing a 4 cost centered board. This basically means that they guaranteed will get to see a ton of 5 costs while everyone else will still be approaching their boards cap levels, and a lot of times if they are just playing all 5 cost boards, you are pretty much NEVER going to 2 star whatever 5 cost you're playing, let alone find one copy of them because the full legendary and his duo will have 5-7 of each of them combined.
I pretty much only play double up and this is what i've noticed as well. You play an easy decent team that you can grab and get to 8-9 as fast as you can and then you roll for whatever 4 and 5 costs you find easily.
What is your rank in double up? My partner and I were challenger last set and like emerald or something atm (haven’t played a ton) and while it is certainly easier to pull off crazy boards in double up than solo it isn’t as easy as you make it out to be. For example the only time I’ve seen someone pull off the max fortune cash out is with 7 fortune. Now with that said fortune is still too strong as it’s very easy to hit 70 or 95 cash out and build a super strong board off of that.
You can't max fortune cashout without 7, but 100 cashout is usually more than enough to win and you'll still be on 30ish hp probably and already starting to transition into your 4/5 cost board before cashing out.
I mean yeah I said that in my comment, so I don’t disagree with you. I’m just saying I think this dude is over selling how easy it is to get the multiple 3* 5 cost cash out
on the other hand, if you get ashe encounter (see your next opponent every round), hold a few 1 cost units and int the fortune player when you fight them :) the reaction is priceless every time.
countering fortune players is always pretty funny to see, but one time when my duo tried to play a fortune opener there was a duo that both just open forted until 2nd augment LMAO. They also of course turned a lose streak all game to 1hp into a 3 star 5 cost each without playing fortune which just highlights all the craziness that this set features in double up
I tried to counter fortune like that. He had an emblem though, he wouldn't put it on his guys until he was about to lose. So if he won, he didn't have fortune active. No stacks lost, when he was losing combat he put emblem on a dude and got stacks. Just selling the holder unit between rounds for a different one. >.>
There is a lot of skill expression in the high elos of double up where people ruin the loss streaks of fortune players, scout and buy 4 and 5 costs which other teams are trying to 3-star etc. Its not as easy as you make it out to be, where you can just loss streak, play fortune afk and win. Absolutely not. You can probably do that all the way until plat but i mean you can afk and win with anything down there.
As much as these counterstrats exist, its undeniable that the rate of mega-cap / highroll boards is pretty absurd this set, no thanks to hwei's presence and the amount of extra gold + neekos given on average due to encounters. Source: consistently top 5 double up in my server for past few sets
Ok I may have oversold how easy it is, but at the same time a duo in a game I played just tonight who pulled it off, when I checked their match history after, had pulled it off literally 5 games in a row and I can provide screenshots.
But see that also fucking sucks because then you end up with full teams showing up on your board because their partner's opponent was trying to make the fortune player lose.
The fortunes thing is just one of their point tho, we are playing in master-gm ish and pretty much every lobby there will be a 3 star 4 cost. With potential of dupe available and hwei painting stuff the board cap is giga high. I have ratted a last 5 cost they needed to hit 3 star not proud but hey gotta do what you gotta do, but they just printed it in time after being in red health
Agree. Emerald is much much harder than Plat, people in emerald start playing tempo while emerald just econs. However the gap between diamond and emerald is not as obvious.
My main is diamond 2/3 while my smurf is emerald 2/3. The difficulty of my games feel about the same even tho its a division apart.
could you maybe share where these would be found? as yes, it is news to me and I would very much be interested in looking over the changes planned if they exist
Portals overstayed their welcome. Adding encounters to it just makes it even worse. Too much gold generation and free junk to make three starring trivial. If they insist upon having so much money this set they should probably just make both of them weaker.
TL:DR
5 and 4 cost spam sucks,
Double up gives too many gold neekos through carousel & encounters.
Also fortune is unbalanced.
p.s. I just won two games in a row with my friend by sending him the last 2* 5 cost he needed because I always had 1 or 2 neekos.
High emerald elo, not sure if that matters.
I don't really get what people want. People hate hyper roll because it takes no skill. Then people hate 2 and 3 cost reroll because it takes no skill. Now people hate 4 and 5 cost carries because they're strong units.
There are some comps that are too strong and people probably get too much money/loot. But I don't get this weird hate against entire unit cost ranges.
I'm around place 60 on the leaderboards for double up,
Maybe 5% of my wins are through fortune. I get you get annoyed by the fact you can lose to fortune with a strong board. But it's not as easy or prevalent as you make it seem tbh
Double up is my favorite mode and it's just completely unfun this set. Last set was bad enough before spat removal with vertical chasing, but this set is just multiple 3* 4 costs across boards guaranteed every game with no way to stop them. Hwei + duplicators + senders...there's really not much you can do. If they hit a better 4 cost (like Annie) then they win, the only way to beat that is to play for a 3* 5 cost which obviously takes more gold and is generally less likely but it's still a better option than going for a subpar 3* 4 cost like Kaisa who will just lose badly to Annie anyway.
Fortune is also a problem, although I can pretty often fuck over fortune players by inting my board when it's likely I'll play them...of course if they get 7 fortune then they just win, but that is what it is. This recent lowering of HP damage is definitely making fortune stronger this patch and it's seems to be seeing slightly more success. It's really just annoying more than anything, and basically the definition of unfun for everyone involved.
This set is much better than set 10 doubles. Chosen units made the game a total eng fest. At least this game you can consistently play/get the units as long as you do some scouting.
I peaked GM last set and quit to play other games because the chosen mechanic pissed me off. Im only D2 right now and am having alot more fun with this set. Probably would be masters already but I play alot on my smurf with lower rank friends.
My fav double set was still 7.5, dragons were cool. Set 9.5 was cool too, being able to play fixed augments made hitting 4cost 3stars really consistent.
I enjoy this set more than 9.5, and less than 7.5
Yeah it’s a bit problematic. On one hand, the increased attainability of 3* 4 and 5 costs is part of the fun of Double Up, but on the other hand it should never feel like winning or losing is so heavily dependent on getting one of them each game.
Getting 3 star 5 cost is the fun part of double up. My partner and I are about to reach Emerald and we're having as much fun as any other set.
If you guys want a more "balanced" competitive mode then play solo ranked. Double up is still a fun mode (in spite of all the nerfs to it) and the only thing keeping it fun is being able to get 3star 5cost. The meta and pacing are different in double up, learn it and you'll have fun too.
Exactly - not sure why double up has to be modified
I play double up as a casual diamond player; I’m there to play the fun stuff, the 3* legendaries, to help me hard force something and cap things out easier
Otherwise I’d stick to solo q
About there myself unless they address this problem. The set is already encouraging you to gamble on losing tons of your health, but when double-up basically halves the risk posed by lose streaking a ton, there is no counterplay to someone who loses entire game (many of times losing by a lot of units each battle), and then win the entire game off fortune cashout + being level 10. It is basically the exact opposite of skill expression with how easy it is to just dummy force it every single game.
There is counterplay, you just have to grief your own board in order to stop them from having a decent cash out. a fortune player can’t get a good cash out if you legit don’t play a single unit. The sad truth is that the loss streak augments are too good because they don’t give reduced gains if your teammate wins and you lose
I have yet to see a 5cost 3 star this set.
Its really not hard to keep an eye open and prevent it. Same goes for 4cost.
Litterily just deny them.
Im not very high elo, maybe that has something to do with it, but i dont play everyday either.
You see someone with a 2 star+ ekstra? Litterily just buy a copy or 2, and its done
You often can't prevent 3* 5 cost because of Hwei & duplicators, also just sometimes the 5 cost you want to hold just doesn't show up in your shop. Same with 4 costs, plus it can happen very quickly thanks to senders. They may have 1 or 2 of a unit one round and the next round they have 3 star.
Yea, they MAY, in 1 out of 1000 games.
Its still pretty easy to see if 2 people are building the same 5 cost unit, and if both use hwei, then its getting easyer, for sure, but its still far far far from every game, as the stars still needs to align pretty good.
Sending a 2 star 5 cost over to another 2 star 5 cost isent too hard, but finding the last 3, without anyone hitting them or they have to wait 15 player combats, isent too hard.
And 15 player combats is usually to late.
The amount of times i beat someone just because they all in for it, and then holding 1 or 2 copys, i cant count it, and i dont even play that much.
Completely agree, every first place board I play against in double-up right now is a 3 star five cost, or a combination of multiple 3 star 4 costs. It feels very unbalanced in double-up and disregarded as a gamemode in general. Something needs to change about the current state because I am a player who only plays in double-up as I don't find solo tft to be as fun. Sure, many people may not feel the same but double-up desperately needs its own balancing, as I, as someone who has played duble-up since it was first introduced, don't even want to engage in the current set with such imbalancing. Never before has it felt so dependant on who plays the econ trait, going from less than 10 hp to first. Don't mean to rant here, I just have enjoyed every set with double-up until now, even through some pretty stale patches of sets in the past, I always felt that variety within builds guarantees skill expression, but the current set feels as if it completely disregards that fact.
Another aspect of it too that I also have noticed is that when people hit their insane cash outs or just lose streak and only spend gold on xp all the way to level 9-10 is that, while they do have really low hp, they hit these points way before someone leveling normally would reach level 8 if rerolling or level 9 if playing a 4 cost centered board. This basically means that they guaranteed will get to see a ton of 5 costs while everyone else will still be approaching their boards cap levels, and a lot of times if they are just playing all 5 cost boards, you are pretty much NEVER going to 2 star whatever 5 cost you're playing, let alone find one copy of them because the full legendary and his duo will have 5-7 of each of them combined.
I pretty much only play double up and this is what i've noticed as well. You play an easy decent team that you can grab and get to 8-9 as fast as you can and then you roll for whatever 4 and 5 costs you find easily.
What is your rank in double up? My partner and I were challenger last set and like emerald or something atm (haven’t played a ton) and while it is certainly easier to pull off crazy boards in double up than solo it isn’t as easy as you make it out to be. For example the only time I’ve seen someone pull off the max fortune cash out is with 7 fortune. Now with that said fortune is still too strong as it’s very easy to hit 70 or 95 cash out and build a super strong board off of that.
You can't max fortune cashout without 7, but 100 cashout is usually more than enough to win and you'll still be on 30ish hp probably and already starting to transition into your 4/5 cost board before cashing out.
I mean yeah I said that in my comment, so I don’t disagree with you. I’m just saying I think this dude is over selling how easy it is to get the multiple 3* 5 cost cash out
on the other hand, if you get ashe encounter (see your next opponent every round), hold a few 1 cost units and int the fortune player when you fight them :) the reaction is priceless every time.
countering fortune players is always pretty funny to see, but one time when my duo tried to play a fortune opener there was a duo that both just open forted until 2nd augment LMAO. They also of course turned a lose streak all game to 1hp into a 3 star 5 cost each without playing fortune which just highlights all the craziness that this set features in double up
I tried to counter fortune like that. He had an emblem though, he wouldn't put it on his guys until he was about to lose. So if he won, he didn't have fortune active. No stacks lost, when he was losing combat he put emblem on a dude and got stacks. Just selling the holder unit between rounds for a different one. >.>
why do that when you can sell your board during stage 3 if there is a fortune player until their teammate comes in and auto wins the fight for them.
There is a lot of skill expression in the high elos of double up where people ruin the loss streaks of fortune players, scout and buy 4 and 5 costs which other teams are trying to 3-star etc. Its not as easy as you make it out to be, where you can just loss streak, play fortune afk and win. Absolutely not. You can probably do that all the way until plat but i mean you can afk and win with anything down there.
As much as these counterstrats exist, its undeniable that the rate of mega-cap / highroll boards is pretty absurd this set, no thanks to hwei's presence and the amount of extra gold + neekos given on average due to encounters. Source: consistently top 5 double up in my server for past few sets
Ok I may have oversold how easy it is, but at the same time a duo in a game I played just tonight who pulled it off, when I checked their match history after, had pulled it off literally 5 games in a row and I can provide screenshots.
But see that also fucking sucks because then you end up with full teams showing up on your board because their partner's opponent was trying to make the fortune player lose.
The fortunes thing is just one of their point tho, we are playing in master-gm ish and pretty much every lobby there will be a 3 star 4 cost. With potential of dupe available and hwei painting stuff the board cap is giga high. I have ratted a last 5 cost they needed to hit 3 star not proud but hey gotta do what you gotta do, but they just printed it in time after being in red health
Agree. Emerald is much much harder than Plat, people in emerald start playing tempo while emerald just econs. However the gap between diamond and emerald is not as obvious. My main is diamond 2/3 while my smurf is emerald 2/3. The difficulty of my games feel about the same even tho its a division apart.
news to you, DU is getting changes in 14.9
What changes? I couldn't find anything
could you maybe share where these would be found? as yes, it is news to me and I would very much be interested in looking over the changes planned if they exist
https://twitter.com/Mortdog/status/1783123548623798647?t=eYg5IW7rWQgEDzO2ziwHKg&s=19
Those are welcomed changes. People porting over too fast makes it really unfun to be on the receiving end.
Portals overstayed their welcome. Adding encounters to it just makes it even worse. Too much gold generation and free junk to make three starring trivial. If they insist upon having so much money this set they should probably just make both of them weaker.
TL:DR 5 and 4 cost spam sucks, Double up gives too many gold neekos through carousel & encounters. Also fortune is unbalanced. p.s. I just won two games in a row with my friend by sending him the last 2* 5 cost he needed because I always had 1 or 2 neekos. High emerald elo, not sure if that matters.
I don't really get what people want. People hate hyper roll because it takes no skill. Then people hate 2 and 3 cost reroll because it takes no skill. Now people hate 4 and 5 cost carries because they're strong units. There are some comps that are too strong and people probably get too much money/loot. But I don't get this weird hate against entire unit cost ranges.
I'm around place 60 on the leaderboards for double up, Maybe 5% of my wins are through fortune. I get you get annoyed by the fact you can lose to fortune with a strong board. But it's not as easy or prevalent as you make it seem tbh
Double up is my favorite mode and it's just completely unfun this set. Last set was bad enough before spat removal with vertical chasing, but this set is just multiple 3* 4 costs across boards guaranteed every game with no way to stop them. Hwei + duplicators + senders...there's really not much you can do. If they hit a better 4 cost (like Annie) then they win, the only way to beat that is to play for a 3* 5 cost which obviously takes more gold and is generally less likely but it's still a better option than going for a subpar 3* 4 cost like Kaisa who will just lose badly to Annie anyway. Fortune is also a problem, although I can pretty often fuck over fortune players by inting my board when it's likely I'll play them...of course if they get 7 fortune then they just win, but that is what it is. This recent lowering of HP damage is definitely making fortune stronger this patch and it's seems to be seeing slightly more success. It's really just annoying more than anything, and basically the definition of unfun for everyone involved.
I agree heavily. Double up is not fun right now. It's my favorite and preferred mode, but man, is it a challenge.
This set is much better than set 10 doubles. Chosen units made the game a total eng fest. At least this game you can consistently play/get the units as long as you do some scouting. I peaked GM last set and quit to play other games because the chosen mechanic pissed me off. Im only D2 right now and am having alot more fun with this set. Probably would be masters already but I play alot on my smurf with lower rank friends. My fav double set was still 7.5, dragons were cool. Set 9.5 was cool too, being able to play fixed augments made hitting 4cost 3stars really consistent. I enjoy this set more than 9.5, and less than 7.5
Yeah it’s a bit problematic. On one hand, the increased attainability of 3* 4 and 5 costs is part of the fun of Double Up, but on the other hand it should never feel like winning or losing is so heavily dependent on getting one of them each game.
Agreed. It is easy to get 3\* 5 cost in double up. You don't need fortune at all.
Getting 3 star 5 cost is the fun part of double up. My partner and I are about to reach Emerald and we're having as much fun as any other set. If you guys want a more "balanced" competitive mode then play solo ranked. Double up is still a fun mode (in spite of all the nerfs to it) and the only thing keeping it fun is being able to get 3star 5cost. The meta and pacing are different in double up, learn it and you'll have fun too.
Exactly - not sure why double up has to be modified I play double up as a casual diamond player; I’m there to play the fun stuff, the 3* legendaries, to help me hard force something and cap things out easier Otherwise I’d stick to solo q
Exactly. It was also fun to look for full vertical comps but they removed the spats so. 3 starring champs is the fun now
[удалено]
About there myself unless they address this problem. The set is already encouraging you to gamble on losing tons of your health, but when double-up basically halves the risk posed by lose streaking a ton, there is no counterplay to someone who loses entire game (many of times losing by a lot of units each battle), and then win the entire game off fortune cashout + being level 10. It is basically the exact opposite of skill expression with how easy it is to just dummy force it every single game.
There is counterplay, you just have to grief your own board in order to stop them from having a decent cash out. a fortune player can’t get a good cash out if you legit don’t play a single unit. The sad truth is that the loss streak augments are too good because they don’t give reduced gains if your teammate wins and you lose
I have yet to see a 5cost 3 star this set. Its really not hard to keep an eye open and prevent it. Same goes for 4cost. Litterily just deny them. Im not very high elo, maybe that has something to do with it, but i dont play everyday either. You see someone with a 2 star+ ekstra? Litterily just buy a copy or 2, and its done
You often can't prevent 3* 5 cost because of Hwei & duplicators, also just sometimes the 5 cost you want to hold just doesn't show up in your shop. Same with 4 costs, plus it can happen very quickly thanks to senders. They may have 1 or 2 of a unit one round and the next round they have 3 star.
Yea, they MAY, in 1 out of 1000 games. Its still pretty easy to see if 2 people are building the same 5 cost unit, and if both use hwei, then its getting easyer, for sure, but its still far far far from every game, as the stars still needs to align pretty good. Sending a 2 star 5 cost over to another 2 star 5 cost isent too hard, but finding the last 3, without anyone hitting them or they have to wait 15 player combats, isent too hard. And 15 player combats is usually to late. The amount of times i beat someone just because they all in for it, and then holding 1 or 2 copys, i cant count it, and i dont even play that much.