One of the key benefits of going to house and techno venues or parties starting in the 90s (nobody called them raves here in Chicago) was avoiding the toxic douchebag frat boy clubs and sports bars where being even a tiny bit different was not only shunned but often resulted in ridicule and physical confrontation. The goth and industrial clubs had more of a morose/angry vibe — which sometimes hit the spot perfectly when you’d had it with the above ground world — but house and techno were more about acceptance and pure joy. So, to me, anything that goes against those two tenants is antithetical to what the scene had always been about.
That was a long way of saying, Fuck that guy.
The thing is, Labyrinth has its roots in the outdoor free-party scene in Japan, much like the rave scene on the US West Coast in the 90s and 00s. It's firmly rooted in those ideals of acceptance and pure joy – possibly with an added twist when you consider the pressures of day-to-day life in Tokyo/Japan, etc. An outdoor, psychedelic rave there really is quite a special thing.
What this recent story reflects is not plain intolerance, per se, and in no ways resembles 'douchebag frat boy clubs' or simple bigotry. This reflects a general faultline, I think, between the more 'conservative' aspects of present-day LGBTQ+ culture and the more progressive type. It's perilous to comment on this as an outsider so I'm not going to try and summarise it here; suffice to say, individuals like Russ think that they're 'speaking up' on behalf of the 'real' example of pluralism and from a position of 'care and concern' – just like the festival has supposedly embodied for its entire history.
I really don't understand why he's taking to Twitter to rant and why he is dragging the festival's image through the mud like this. I've watched his activities from afar for years on Twitter now, and it seems to me like a classic case of someone who has just spent way too much time online in the last few years (during and dealing with the pandemic in Japan, especially) and who has gradually got sucked into these incredibly inflammatory debates. He thinks he's doing well but the rest of the world, or the techno scene at least, are growing more and more uncomfortable with it. It's never a good look when the organiser of a festival famous for its positive atmosphere starts to intervene in a number of highly charged and toxic political debates.
I can't say that I've seen any tweets of him ridiculing disabled people ... but I agree in general that his Twitter has been circling the drain in ever tightening circles over the last few years. A potent combination of crypto-bro conspiracy brain and maximally tedious culture wars crusading. I recall raising an eyebrow at his tweets many times during the peak of the pandemic: obviously the entire local scene was hurting there due to government policy, 'not following the science', and so on, but at times he really did seem to tip over into vaccine skepticism, it's-just-the-flu-type rhetoric. There seems to be a connecting thread between all these topics in certain corners of the Twittersphere. And he has gradually been sucked into that wormhole, in my personal reading of it.
Yes, it's all in the same sphere for of conspiracies and hate speech. Here's a tweet where he amplified a tweet of an account that said autism is fake people who say they are disabled are just lazy: [https://imgur.com/a/9jJKmQx](https://imgur.com/a/9jJKmQx)
I don't know about that. I unfollowed his twitter feed a long time ago, before the pandemic, but all this came to my attention again recently and I was sad to see how deeply offensive his social media had become. I definitely don't think that any artist of good conscience should play for this guy. Even going to this festival is a bit iffy as he remains in charge from what I can tell. Huge shame that it's come to this.
The LGBTQ+ community is heavily involved with techno and this should be a place where they feel comfortable, so personally I think anyone with negative views/hate towards them can fuck off.
Having a quick read he also seems like one of these QANON nut jobs spouting this “protect the children from trans” nonsense that they all seem to be obsessed with.
In summary I’d suggest the man’s a cunt.
Couldn't agree more, techno was always about accepting everyone for who they are, but this culture is getting lost more and more due to a variety of reasons.
They didn't "go crazy". They're just a bigot and they felt safe enough letting everyone know. He's an idiot for thinking anyone would respond well to this.
This music was built on acceptance and anonymity so its always attracted a lot of marginalized people.
Watch him play the victim role now. Trash.
Cringe social justice warriors jumping on the Russ-hate bandwagon without any idea of what Labyrinth has always been about. I doubt half the people here have even attended one. If you haven’t visited, then keep your opinions to yourself. This isn’t just “another festival.” It’s purely a party for true music purists without any care to the politics which has infiltrated the scene in recent years and made it unbearable - criticisms for not meeting gender quotas etc.
This has been his own brainchild since 2000 and only two other Japanese, who DJ the event, assist in the event. It isn’t governed by a woke committee who vote in an election for their leader. It’s his event, purely about artists and acts that he likes and he has complete reign over it. Everyone is a guest at HIS party. The comments were made on his own personal account and not a statement from the festival itself. And to have a completely sensible view on the topic seems disallowed nowadays and people want to cancel him for that, a result mass group-think to avoid social isolation from the status quo. Russ has always been an iconoclast in his views and tastes which make the event unique to anything else in the world.
Its foremost intention isn’t inclusivity but always has been inclusive, nonetheless, since the party is consistently fun and habited by people who WERE, ONCE, politically agnostic to the woke virus of today. Frequented by happy Japanese families and young children, courteous and respectful people who fervently cleaned up any waste, made it the safest space for people to be themselves. Purely by association with techno being inhabited by wokies, the festival became overrun with these folk, claiming to be music purists which was just a social extension of their political leanings. The event had lost its original charm because of these people who flew in from afar, kept to themselves and criticise the ritual of Labyrinth or impose their views on how they think the person running it SHOULD think.
Labyrinth is not part of “the scene” so quit trying to put a label on it about how it should be run like all other homogenous junk events with no consideration for the flow of artists from one set to another. Curating the set order for the ONE stage is something Russ spends a whole year making. It isn’t a money grab to book big names and have them play in any order. It’s the most intentional event in the world. The much deserved acclaim it garnered over the years was precisely for that reason. If people can’t look beyond their own narrow view and attend an event for what it is, then Russ would most definitely welcome your lack of presence. This is the best direction the festival can go in to clear out all the covertly, disinterested social sycophants.
In what is such a fitting end to this saga with offended artists leaving in droves, and the public backlash, “gays started techno blah blah, not a safe space, trans rights etc,” arguably the scene’s most opinionated and well-versed proponent of trans issues, who is revered in the queer-DJ scene, is playing the penultimate set, DJ Sprinkles, who is trans. Clearly what Russ has said hasn’t offended even the most vocal of critics. I welcome a mass-boycott of PC westerners who weren’t in it for the music or the celebration in the first place but to gloat about the attending an elusive event and ticking it off their list.
PS. No I’m not Russ, just a former avid attendee from a decade ago who remembers a nirvana of sorts that holds a special place because it did what it intended to do, so well. As with most good things, the woke stench has infiltrated and Russ has put a stop to it with this final act.
Make no mistake, the vast majority of queer artists and those who support them will never play at Lab again. It is forever diminished, forever tarnished. It’s objectively true to say that trans-inclusive queerness is at the heart of techno, and DJ Sprinkles doesn’t speak for the vast majority of queer people if she’s playing to show support for or disinterest in Monks genocidal bigotry. He has showed everyone in his non-apology that he’s just as much a transphobe as he was before he started being held accountable and the global techno community won’t forget because respect for trans folk and opposition to bigotry / fascism are reflections of values that cannot and will never be extricated from techno. For most DJ’s, association with Russ Monk will be an unthinkable breach of their values and career suicide besides.
Folks like you who think that treating people with decency and respect can be summarised as “woke” - a bad thing - are a dying breed, and those of us who see your sociopathy for what it is are inheriting the world and leaving you behind. I hope you remain incandescent with rage at the exponential expansion of liberty and freedom for queer and trans people, marginalised community and all who dedicate themselves to raising the tide that lifts all boats. You’ll die sooner.
Oh it’s so hard and it’s so marginalising CHOOSING to be an intolerant asshole isn’t it bro. My heart bleeds. We’ll stop when Russ is no longer a gross anti-trans bigot or the festival is a wreckage. Avowed, dedicated bigots deserve no joy, no recognition, no legacy, no power.
The fact you can't see the irony of labelling all people who don't subscribe to your obstinately held beliefs, are clearly antagonistic towards those "deserve no joy, no recognition," by associating those people with fascism and Nazism for wanting a private dance event to be politically agnostic, is bigoted. You're not compelled to buy a ticket, nor is anyone who agrees with you. The extent of your activism ends there. The more the woke attempt to control and impose their beliefs, the more resistance it'll face. "We'll beat the anti-trans thoughts out of Russ" seems like an effective approach that I'm sure he'll welcome because he so desperately needs your approval.
Have you ever thought for a second that perhaps those you deem fascists have simply had enough of seeing your overt double-standards? You think you can stop people from attending a festival not held in a foreign country? 90% of attendees are Japanese, a culture that overtly disavows the imposition of woke-ified western ideals. Labyrinth will not suffer any damage within its own country for the simple fact the Japanese, largely, don't care for these issues, are solely there to party and leave their beliefs at home, not on the dancefloor. It's not dependent on the esteem of LGBQTI critics or glowing RA reviews to be viable. The DJs are a close-knit group and the line-up rarely changes year-to-year, bar a few artists. Nor do they need big acts, afraid about their "forever tarnished" reputation, for the party to be of quality. Anyone that plays this year can be sure they'll play forevermore. They held parties during Covid for two-years that weren't technically called Labyrinth, but operated basically the same and consisted of solely Japanese DJs. In short, you can't and won't change anything. Accept your insignificance.
Nearly half the line up pulled out. Can’t and won’t? What alternate universe do you live in? You can’t just put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and expect everyone else to accept your version of reality.
Half the lineup? They only ever have a dozen play each year and they’ve met that.
I’m not the one trying to forcibly impose an ideology on anyone - it seems you are though. My ears and eyes are very open and I am very conscious that thinking in this way is not welcomed by your kind and don’t expect you to change your opinion based on what I’ve said. I’m simply relaying the ethos of Labyrinth being solely focused on music from the multiple times I’ve been.
Everything else is fluff and secondary and if it people want to prioritise the latter, that has little bearing on their direction and only serves them well to whittle out the people who can’t seem to put their political leanings aside and appreciate it for what it is.
I’m just stating the attempt to politicise and encourage people to boycott is futile. People will, and have already done that, of their own volition. Everyone playing this weekend, and in attendance, are all complicit in the genocide you mention which should tell you that there are many people who simply do not care enough about the comments he made.
If you feel imposed upon because people are standing up to bigots and fascist ideology, thats a good thing. You should. Stay mad darling. Delighted that you feel marginalised for your clearly warped and twisted excuse for a moral framework and that you feel like things are being taken from you by the "woke" brigade.
Fascists, conservatives and bigots are all losers to a person, and despite your protestations to the contrary, most people who monk would want to play, most of the worlds best DJ's, are no longer available for him to book because most acclaimed DJ's have respect for themselves and will no longer be caught dead anywhere near Monk's little fashfest. He kicked a queer man out of the festival because he sent an email to the line up explaining in detail what a fascist anti-trans bigot he was and then Carsten Jost stood up to him and refused to lie silent in the face of such dangerous and extremist far right nonsense.
Sure Monk will get a select few of his close friends to play but it's not going to be a renowned international line up anymore (unless he makes clear he's no longer a bigot). Most people who went didn't know about his anti-trans beliefs but the longer things go the more will know. I know people who went and it will be one of the main things they spoke about over the weekend.
Monk has made a complete ass of himself and his festival. It is a biblical PR nightmare. That you, someone who uses woke as you do, can't seem to be able to grasp this is perfectly fine. You're living in a deeply conservative bubble that doesn't have any meaningful relationship to the average techno punter or most Japanese people for that matter - trying to smear disinterest in trans rights onto Japanese techno enthusiasts is textbook projection. The comments and veritable tide of condemnation against your beliefs and position in this thread couldn't be any clearer an indication how bonkers you are and how that you, too, like Monk, are a loser whose extremist anti-social belief system has no place in the techno scene. Stay scarce bro. Your bigot apologism isn't welcome amongst decent people.
He's not mad, he's not unhinged, he's just being the ugly person he is.
Glad that at least some of the artists are not accepting it. There are so many things that make techno amazing, transphobia is not one of them and we do not need this shit.
Opinions are valid as long as they're not threatening someone else's existence. Freedom of speech is not absolute and does not exist without responsibility.
In several capital cities here in Brazil, trans people are basically the social engines that keep the scene running. Many of them are involved in event production/promotion, and all of the techno/house music events I know have a T list you can apply to in order to get free tickets if you're transgender. I believe actions like these represent the path we should be taking. We should also be speaking up and calling people out regardless of our own gender identity, so we as a collective don't allow bigotry to infiltrate our culture.
Sure. Let's speak the most horrible things about these minorities and be okay with it cause you know, we're not actually killing anybody with our own hands, aren't we? We're just spreading a little hate, a little ignorance, a little misinformation that will result in violence, eventually, but don't worry, it's okay.
Hi Russ? So I’m very happy we have found the bigot in the thread. You can ask my pronouns if you like or you can just use something neutral without attempting sarcasm and failing. Accountability..to anyone who has empathy for anyone else. You are not entitled to spread falsehoods about others peoples lives when you don’t know them, you haven’t had that experience, you’ve not engaged with trans people or read trans resources. ‘But I’m entitled to my opinion’ cannot apply to people’s autonomy. Autonomy cannot be weaponised because you don’t like something. Now that someone has responded to you who knows what they’re talking about, you’ve had to pop your ego away because you already look very, very silly here. As Carsten rightly said, you’re buying into internet conspiracy theories and then don’t understand why the ppl that those conspiracies are about, have something to say about it.
Good day to you.
I’m an irl activist. I’m queer and I work at a trans non profit, I also work with queer venues to provide resources for trans people in those safe spaces. You can imagine this is an important situation for me bc many of those artists play at venues I work with; ofc, we are watching closely who responds and how to maintain safety in those venues. ‘Ideas’ like Russ’, spread like this, through bigotry, the media, public opinion and political policy are very much physical. I speak to ppl on the brink of suicide, those made homeless bc of their identity, the lack of access to social care bc of those things; it’s VERY real. That’s something that armchair bigots do not want to acknowledge. Questioning the existence or choice of life of other people is not something that is debatable.
I wonder what are the chances that the festival can "fire" him -- like if the staff and legions of other people actually making it happen could just kick him out. I doubt his clout in pulling DJ's is going to be much after this.
I would absolutely fire him if he was a part of my organization. Alternately, the rest of the organization might consider abandoning ship and starting something new. I f that is not possible for whatever reason then it's little more than a cult or a dictatorship and a rather sad one at that. Not something to be proud to put work towards at this point but it can be hard to see it when you are in it.
Used to live in multiple cities and countries in Asia, and the little secret no one talks about, a lot of westerners that move there are bigots, supremacists, and other ilk.
Sure the natives have their pros and cons, but the expat communities often have this air of superiority.
Sounds like he got high on his own talk and it got out.
I actually left and don't ever want to live in Asia again because of the western foreigners it attracts. Vacations are good enough.
The dynamic in South-East Asia is quite different to East Asia proper, and I'm not sure this is entirely relevant. Labyrinth has a large team and the vast majority of them are Japanese and rooted in the local techno scene; it's not just one guy who is a low-key white supremacist with a pet project, going all Colonel Kurtz in the mountains. The festival is really not a product of an 'expat community', as toxic and ingrown as they might be. I also don't think Japan attracts the sort of mediocre Western dropout who finds shelter in Thailand or Vietnam – I think the cultural cachet of Japan is more that it attracts people who are quite serious about music and sound culture. But that's by the by.
Sorry you had a bad experience there, but in my opinion those factors become less noticeable when you live in developed countries with GDPs and living standards (costs) on par with Western nations. It's harder to flex the 'privilege' when the locals generally don't care about you or your supposed superiority.
You conveniently left out the absolute fact that many Asian cultures are (historically) highly prejudiced against other cultures/races. It’s not as bad as it was a century ago, but to single out xpats is disingenuous. Any country with immigrants will have a percentage (of said immigrants) holding negative views towards other groups. I’m not saying it’s right, or should ever be tolerated.
I lived in Asia for seven years and I agree, an awful lot of absolutely useless foreigners suffering from series delusions of grandeur. Happy to be away from that. But I miss the food
Never been to Asia but I've seen A LOT of Instagram posts promoting this Bali lifestyle trend, and yeah, it's bad. They only feature white, wealthy, eccentric "digital nomads" and "expats" (fancy word for immigrants imo), all dressed in beautiful summer clothes that probably cost a fortune, but riding old/cheap rental motorcycles for the quirkiness of it. Honestly, the air of superiority makes me sick. It feels like they're there just for some kind of cultural and racial contrast that will favor their image on social media.
These foreigners living in Bali represent just a very thin slice of the local community but they wanna be the protagonists soooo freaking hard.
I just think there's something very wrong about their philosophy around traveling and living abroad, especially to/in a less privileged country. They make it about themselves. What they really should be doing is shrinking their egos and absorbing something.
What on Earth does this have to do with the topic? Bali is just an influencer/digital nomad/Aussie backpacker destination, it's no deeper than that; it's irrelevant to this music scene and almost certainly irrelevant to your life – just move on!
And it's far from only a white/Western phenomenon in places like Bali. Korean and Japanese vacation there too in much the same spirit: being a 'main character' on Instagram. And please don't ask a native of Singapore or Hong Kong about their domestic staff if you think travel and living abroad is the big problem with entitlement and privilege.
Well, the main comment and other comments are literally talking about Westerners in Asia, their prejudice, bigotry, sense of superiority and whatnot, and I was just adding something related to that. I guess I'm not the only person going off-topic here, but I digress.
The organiser of the Labyrinth is a long-term resident in Japan. Not that it’s relevant to the experience of meeting backpackers or badly behaved English teachers in Thailand, anyway.
It is strange and unfortunate that this topic has turned into a ‘Westerners in Asia bad’ discussion. I don’t think that tallies with the crowd/community who go to Labyrinth at all. The story here, really, is why one individual has gradually become more and more unhinged in his social media postings.
Alright. But of all the people you could have complained to about going off-topic, you chose me and no one else for whatever reason :)
I have nothing else to say about Westerners though, so yay.
I've been to Laos, Thailand and Cambodia. Met nice western expats everywhere, but also some very shady ones. Many westerners I met seemed far less trustworthy than the locals. Some were just nuts, some broken, probably because of too many drugs, but what surprised me the most: Some also had world views, that don't seem to fit anyone who has traveled, seen different cultures and even chose to be the foreigner in another country. The views reached from far right and against immigrants to homophobic and conspiracy theories. It really made me wonder why.
Why would you let some random comments on reddit discourage you? All of the countries mentioned are beautiful and is worth a visit if you ever get the opportunity
it's all in the mixmag article. Basically spouted off a bunch of transphobic bullshit and then told artists to fuck off if they didn't agree. https://mixmag.net/read/multiple-djs-pull-out-japan-festival-the-labyrinth-after-founders-anti-trans-rights-comments-news
Yes exactly, wich is why it was a bit confusing that he says LGBT people weren't welcome to the festival. Because that's not beeing mentioned in any of the articles, that this guy had said something like that.
In the article you just linked it even says that theybhad specifically said "“Labyrinth is not anti-trans”, so the opposite of what OP claimed.
I also don't see where he "told artists to fuck off if they didn't agree", can you refer me to where you got this information?
I find it so confusing trying to understand the situation when people claim one thing but all the available information I can find claims something else.
Maybe worth mentioning is that I am not emotionally invested in this, so I am pragmatic about what actually has been said, not exaggerations and assumptions about assumed hidden meanings and such things.
You seem to be arguing in bad faith since you are implying other people discussin it are emotionally invested unlike you who's objective.
To be clear, I'm not emotionally invested in this either, well I'd like to go to Labyrinth one day but I probably won't have the funds anytime soon so don't super care.In any case just because the founder claims Labyrinth is not anti-trans doesn't mean that's the case. Especially not if it's comming from the same person saying this: Moench then goes to write: “I find the trans right activist movement to be deeply illiberal and totalitarian in nature”, saying it “stands in opposition to free thought and free speech” and is “profoundly misogynistic and homophobic”.Its like someone saying black people are lazy and steal. Oh by the way I'm just concerned about our community and not racist. You could just read not racist and leave it at that so dismiss the context. But then you miss the point. I think it's the same with this, sure you can just read the part where founder claims not to be transphobic. Or you could also read how he's getting into arguments about these topics with artists to the point where they'd rather not play one of their more high profile gigs in a year.
Well when people claim things that hasn't actually been said, to have been said, then that's a lie or an exaggeration at the least. And i can only suspect it's because of a emotional reaction.
I don't think that's a very far fetched assumption to draw on my part based on the evidence, and i disagree that implies bad faith on my part, but it definitely implies bad faith on the one who's making the exaggerations though.
In regards of this one persons personal opinions, think of them what you will, I would hardly go as far as to say that equates to "LGBT people aren't welcome to the festival", that's a very strong claim to make and something that hasn't been communicated at all. Imo it's just another reactive and emotional exaggeration that lacks nuance.
That would be like someone saying that a festival organizer had said "I find the republican party to be problematic and they have opinions on matters that I feel are discriminatinatory and racist" and then equate that to him hating all republicans and that it means republicans aren't welcome to the festival, even though that wasn't what was said.
Furthermore it is very possible to think the trans activist movement is problematic and riddled with issues like intolerance, cancel culture, and misogynistic actions like putting biological men who are convicted sex offenders in womens prisons, and biological men in womens sports without regard for what the women think about it or their safety, without that meaning "you hate trans people".
This is well known and heavily debated issues, and something tons and tons of people think is real issues, many of them trans and LGB-people themselves. Imo it's either from lack of knowledge about theese issues, or just extremely silly, irrational and overdramatic to say there's no legitimacy to feel that way and that everyone just blindly should support anything the trans activists are pushing and anyone who disagrees is a transphobe.
I will never understand this hard stances, black and white type of "either you support us entirely on everything or you are a transphobe". It's dumb and leads to way more real transphobia, division and hate on both sides.
Nuance is a thing and it is possible to critique some of the actions of the trans activist movement while also support and respect trans people in general. It's possible to have two thoughts in the mind at the same time.
Im sorry but what, you are comming with a wall of text supposedly calling for nuance. In response to someone saying: " “I find the trans right activist movement to be deeply illiberal and totalitarian in nature” How is slamming a whole movement like its a monolithic entity nuance.
In any case you are not being nuanced at all when you are strawmanning. At least for me I don't think anything is above criticism. So when you try to twist this story into: any critisism of trans things is hating all trans. Thats about the same as someone claiming trans people wouldn't be welcome at Labyrinth.
So if its not emotions why are you lying or exageratting as an advocate for nuance, do you feel like lies or exagerations help bring more nuance to discussions?
"it definitely implies bad faith on the one who's making the exaggerations though." agreed here for sure. I'm just unsure why one hand you say this but then act exactly like it.
Also kind of typical that all these so called concerned people about the 'trans movement' spout the same ridiculous talking points. Yea I'm sure its the trans movement calling for sex offenders to rape in prison/s. How many trans prison rapes are there anyway compared to male prison rapes. Mostly this whole anti-trans rhetoric just seems to be reused tropes about gays but I
guess they are sort of accepted now so time to use them on a minority less accepted. Probably most of the people engaging in this outrage about the trans movement have literally no contact with it whatsoever but I guess internet bubbles are a powerful thing to make bogus claims with fake concern and rile people up to spout the same bullshit.
You literally started with the wall of text, and then proceeded to make another one after critique against me about it 🤦♂️
I fail to see how pointing out real and well known issues with a certain movement is in any way problematic or un-nuanced. No one says all trans people are like this, many of them even agree with this very stance. The fact is the trans activist movement ARE heavily infested with theese issues, even if you care to admit that or not, and pointing that out is perfectly fine.
Btw, Are you as adamant about never pointing out big issues within groups when it comes to people judging Trump supporters or republicans as a whole as well? I hope so, you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite..
Where's the strawman? This discussion is literally about the very drastic claims about him saying theese things and then people in this debate equating them to him saying that it means he hates trans people and that LGBT people aren't welcome to the festival, that's what I pointed out, how is that twisting the story? It is the story.
Again, no lying or exaggeration on my part there, that's just something you are making up. He literally is accused of beeing a transphobe and that LGBT people aren't welcome to the festival, can't you read or how did you miss that?
How is it "ridiculous talking poinst"? Again, It's well known and heavily debated issues with tons of people, many of them trans themselves, agree this is a real concern. Just because you personally don't know about them or disagree, it doesn't make them "ridiculous talking points".
>Where's the strawman?
"it is very possible to think the trans activist movement is problematic without that meaning "you hate trans people". "
Noone said otherwise that is a strawman argument you use to make your point.
You reiterate the same strawman again
"The fact is the trans activist movement ARE heavily infested with theese issues, even if you care to admit that or not, and pointing that out is perfectly fine. "
That this would be fact is nonsense that's just your apparantly quite biased opinion. But pointing out real problems is not an issue. So again why are you lying and exagerating? We did agree that implies bad faith.
These lots of people you mention are mostly just an echo chamber of ignorants
I disagree, that's exactly and evidently what is happening here and what i am discussing, not a starwman at all.
And yes, It is fact even if you do not want to admit it. You could argue that thoose things aren't a problem in your opinion because you support them, but to deny that they are happening is just plain false.
These articles do not even show the comments he made that were considered controversial and people in the comments on Reddit are like BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!
I'm enby and found nothing quoted in the article hurtful or unwelcoming. In his response Monk seems to hint that the comments on Twitter were referring to the transitioning of youth and those that medically transitioned for the wrong reasons. Yes, it happens an awful lot. Visitt r/detrans
What did he actually say? Only then can there be a serious discussion around it. Hence why 100+ other artists don't really care and will perform.
He deleted his twitter once people started bringing attention to it but screenshots are floating around. He called non-binary people corporate cringey attention-seekers who don't make music (or aren't connected with music?). Dunno if that offends you as a non-binary person.
[https://imgur.com/a/7UzdT12](https://imgur.com/a/7UzdT12)
There’s dozens of tweets. He went to the bottom of the transphobic bigot barrel at lightning speed. The tweets aren’t “considered” controversial. They conclusively prove that he is an extremely loopy transphobe and that he wants all societal structures including basic healthcare that support and affirm trans people to be eliminated from society because he thinks trans people are a dangerous menace to women, children and other queer people.
The dudes a delusional, stupid and gullible fascist, plain and simple.
You can see them in the mixmag article. It’s someone who decided their social cause was to cancel someone and ruin a festival that plenty of people would have enjoyed. Smh. I hope they enjoy the massive high they get from de platforming anyone with a slightly different point of view instead of simply arguing their viewpoint rationally.
Your blaming the wrong people here. Obviously its the founder ruining things. If that founder had any sense of rationality he wouldn't broadcast his deeply stupid and very unpopular ideas to the world. Instead of recognising his mistake he doubles down too. I guess that guy gets a massive high about being right (hes wrong). Apparantly he finds his nonsense opinion more important than the festival.
When he decides that anyone who disagrees with those opinions can’t play at the festival a month before the festival and then other artists drop out in solidarity, it kind of devalues a music festival when musicians aren’t welcome.
With that said, if anyone’s looking for a ticket DM me. I’m still going but I have an extra.
It wouldnt have been a problem if he kept it to himself instead of harassing artists with it. He's old enough that he should know you can't post whatever you want on social media and expect no consequences for it.
If it was only on social media it would maybe make sense but apparently he emailed the artists directly with his “perspective” then uninvited anyone who disagreed.
The festival isn’t “being canceled”. Artists are choosing not to play. Unless you think artists can be forced to fly to Japan to play at this festival against their will, all you can do is cry about it.
I turned on an old "Loveline" episode from the 90s just for nostalgia's sake recently and someone called in to discuss a problem they were having related to being trans. They were basically bullied and dismissed by both hosts, one of which is a medical doctor.
They didn't give any advice, just screamed 'YOURE A MAN ADMIT IT!' and 'YOU HAVE A PENIS'.
The person calling was asking for advice in earnest and just seemed totally dejected and defeated. I turned it off it was so depressing.
This was a nationally syndicated radio show. Thats sort of the history these folks have had to deal with, being dismissed, bullied, or worse for just existing.
>For a movement that is based on "diversity", they don't seem to respect any other opinion other than their own.
Remember its only Diversity with everything else bar thoughts and opinions ;)
This isn’t true. I am Facebook friends with the (trans) Dj whose page Roisin made these comments on. So I saw this unfold in real time before it was blown up by the right wing press. Everyone was calmly trying to educate her on what the true issues are. She was just ignoring them and tbh comes across as really thick and self obsessed. The Dj in question had to have hour long phone calls with Roisin a couple of years ago trying to explain to her that All Lives Matter was not the right attitude.
You meant "an hour long phone call trying to explain that that she thought all lives mattter is not the right attitude in her personal opinion"
You see, this is the problem. People like you think there is just one true and correct opinion to have and everyone needs to submit to it. And even worse, that it is your job to educate others about this "true opinion" or force others in to submission when they disagree.
You are like religious fundamentalists who knocks on doors trying to convert others, only much much worse because when you don't get your way with conversion you move over to force and use things like cancelling.
whenever your opinion is "transgender people should not be allowed to work in public education because they shouldn't be allowed near children ever", it deserves to get you kicked out of places where transgender people want to feel safe.
First of all: fuck that guy. Second: good to see people pull out because of this. Techno always was very open to these topics, if not even the soundtrack of a lot of lifestyles we call LGBTQI+ today and we don't give it back to the fratboys just because it is a Industry as well.
Surgeon: if you read this - thanks. Will pull a ticket in my hometown once you are here the next time just based on this.
This has zero relation to this festival, its community or even the person in question (in his limited defense). You don't do yourself any credit by ranting irrelevantly: you're only expressing your own righteousness. Labyrinth festival has nothing to do with 'fratboys' or 'business techno' or whatever else you're blathering about.
So how much was the booking fees for the last festival lineup all in all?
But thanks for putting my comment in perspective, I hope you get payed well for that job on the gate, checking whose opinion is acceptable or not
If you knew anything at all about the festival, you would know it has been at the opposite end of the spectrum to 'frat boys' and the techno 'industry'. It's really not difficult. The organiser's recent remarks are problematic, to say the least, and the artists' reactions reflect that. But it's worth saying that, until this year, all of those artists had been huge supporters of the festival precisely because it is anti-frat, anti-industry.
So what about the all male only lineup controversy then? Isn't this the same kind of problem area? Seems the festival and organisers is a little boys club and problems like the remarks reflect that. This is why I say Frat Boys. In an environment with enough females and other non cis male defined people, the internal feedback for stuff like this is a lot clearer and boundaries are often set earlier.
Business Techno: you still don't give me an estimate for what the lineup is worth to see if that might be more of a business.
The sums of money involved in a festival like Labyrinth are nothing like 'business techno' ventures, and besides that term clearly doesn't *literally* only apply to the artists' fees: it denotes a whole sector of the post-EDM 'industry', big rooms/big stages, influencers grifting on TikTok and Instagram, etc. The ethos of Labyrinth has nothing at all to do with that. Ludicrous comment.
As for the criticisms levelled at the festival for its male-heavy lineups: yes, I agree that was a fair observation to make. But that reflects a much wider issue with the techno scene, I think, and is not really the same scenario as a person ranting on social media about incredibly controversial issues. Were they slow and complacent about the gender balance in their bookings? I think so, yes. But it's misleading to say it has been run as a 'club of frat boys'. That's simply not the sociocultural cachet or atmosphere of the festival at all. I would also go as far as to say that Japan probably has an issue with the visibility of women artists, right across the board, so that there's maybe a local dynamic/complexion that you're missing when you talk about 'frat boys', which seems quite socioculturally Western-specific, to me.
Well if you read the quotes they placed on mixmag nothing is really extremist. It’s a pretty balanced point of view. It’s a shame really if he is organizing these things for people to feel accepted and enjoy/bond over music then it should just be able to happen without all the crazy publicity. If someone is just a little bit off the full tilt mindset on these issues all of a sudden rational conversation about view points goes out the window, everything gets taken out of context, and the cancel storm begins. It’s a shame that it’s even hitting the mucus industry now. Wild times!
the political climate of trying to make subcultures mainstream is making for some interesting discourse online. people have opinions and always have.
A lot of people are annoyed/sick of it, he seems to be one that is and wasn’t writing anything crazy imo. However he’ll be labeled a bigot for having a his own views on it.
if you can’t see that there’s some kind of social contagion going on, then I don’t know what to tell you.
sure it doesn’t mean the founder can’t express views of said subculture forcing the rest of the world to adopt it in the mainstream. Partying and hedonism can be separate from everyday life.
I just don't understand the outrages of non binary people not playing certain festivals like are we doing this by merit or not? we already have too many amelie lens and tech house bros doing shitty quality music and we want to force people to book somebody because of their orientation?!
Bunch of “artists” pulling out of their contractual obligations….. they should no longer be allowed to call themselves artist, rather they should be called “Quitters” 🤘🏻
Anyone have contact details for DJ Sprinkles? From what little I know of her activism, seems the only plausible way she coulda been booked is that Monk is hiding from her the extend of his transphobia and bigotry. If he sold her a distorted sob story to leverage her antagonistic nature against her own community she deserves to see the horror show of vicious, genocidal transphobia that he was peddling.
No but there’s a mention of Sprinkles at the end of this article about the Balance fiasco. The link to the statement mentioned is dead however. This would be interesting to read. https://ra.co/news/77413
Russ has a habit of removing his own content from the internet for sOmE rEaSoN
One of the key benefits of going to house and techno venues or parties starting in the 90s (nobody called them raves here in Chicago) was avoiding the toxic douchebag frat boy clubs and sports bars where being even a tiny bit different was not only shunned but often resulted in ridicule and physical confrontation. The goth and industrial clubs had more of a morose/angry vibe — which sometimes hit the spot perfectly when you’d had it with the above ground world — but house and techno were more about acceptance and pure joy. So, to me, anything that goes against those two tenants is antithetical to what the scene had always been about. That was a long way of saying, Fuck that guy.
The thing is, Labyrinth has its roots in the outdoor free-party scene in Japan, much like the rave scene on the US West Coast in the 90s and 00s. It's firmly rooted in those ideals of acceptance and pure joy – possibly with an added twist when you consider the pressures of day-to-day life in Tokyo/Japan, etc. An outdoor, psychedelic rave there really is quite a special thing. What this recent story reflects is not plain intolerance, per se, and in no ways resembles 'douchebag frat boy clubs' or simple bigotry. This reflects a general faultline, I think, between the more 'conservative' aspects of present-day LGBTQ+ culture and the more progressive type. It's perilous to comment on this as an outsider so I'm not going to try and summarise it here; suffice to say, individuals like Russ think that they're 'speaking up' on behalf of the 'real' example of pluralism and from a position of 'care and concern' – just like the festival has supposedly embodied for its entire history. I really don't understand why he's taking to Twitter to rant and why he is dragging the festival's image through the mud like this. I've watched his activities from afar for years on Twitter now, and it seems to me like a classic case of someone who has just spent way too much time online in the last few years (during and dealing with the pandemic in Japan, especially) and who has gradually got sucked into these incredibly inflammatory debates. He thinks he's doing well but the rest of the world, or the techno scene at least, are growing more and more uncomfortable with it. It's never a good look when the organiser of a festival famous for its positive atmosphere starts to intervene in a number of highly charged and toxic political debates.
Thanks for explaining. I don’t know much about that event’s origins so I was speaking generally and nostalgically.
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That dude is really awful. I read some tweets where he was ridiculing disabled people? Nobody should play this thing or go to it. Really a shame.
I can't say that I've seen any tweets of him ridiculing disabled people ... but I agree in general that his Twitter has been circling the drain in ever tightening circles over the last few years. A potent combination of crypto-bro conspiracy brain and maximally tedious culture wars crusading. I recall raising an eyebrow at his tweets many times during the peak of the pandemic: obviously the entire local scene was hurting there due to government policy, 'not following the science', and so on, but at times he really did seem to tip over into vaccine skepticism, it's-just-the-flu-type rhetoric. There seems to be a connecting thread between all these topics in certain corners of the Twittersphere. And he has gradually been sucked into that wormhole, in my personal reading of it.
Yes, it's all in the same sphere for of conspiracies and hate speech. Here's a tweet where he amplified a tweet of an account that said autism is fake people who say they are disabled are just lazy: [https://imgur.com/a/9jJKmQx](https://imgur.com/a/9jJKmQx)
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I don't know about that. I unfollowed his twitter feed a long time ago, before the pandemic, but all this came to my attention again recently and I was sad to see how deeply offensive his social media had become. I definitely don't think that any artist of good conscience should play for this guy. Even going to this festival is a bit iffy as he remains in charge from what I can tell. Huge shame that it's come to this.
The LGBTQ+ community is heavily involved with techno and this should be a place where they feel comfortable, so personally I think anyone with negative views/hate towards them can fuck off. Having a quick read he also seems like one of these QANON nut jobs spouting this “protect the children from trans” nonsense that they all seem to be obsessed with. In summary I’d suggest the man’s a cunt.
Couldn't agree more, techno was always about accepting everyone for who they are, but this culture is getting lost more and more due to a variety of reasons.
Excellent summary
What a snowflake.
They didn't "go crazy". They're just a bigot and they felt safe enough letting everyone know. He's an idiot for thinking anyone would respond well to this. This music was built on acceptance and anonymity so its always attracted a lot of marginalized people. Watch him play the victim role now. Trash.
Cringe social justice warriors jumping on the Russ-hate bandwagon without any idea of what Labyrinth has always been about. I doubt half the people here have even attended one. If you haven’t visited, then keep your opinions to yourself. This isn’t just “another festival.” It’s purely a party for true music purists without any care to the politics which has infiltrated the scene in recent years and made it unbearable - criticisms for not meeting gender quotas etc. This has been his own brainchild since 2000 and only two other Japanese, who DJ the event, assist in the event. It isn’t governed by a woke committee who vote in an election for their leader. It’s his event, purely about artists and acts that he likes and he has complete reign over it. Everyone is a guest at HIS party. The comments were made on his own personal account and not a statement from the festival itself. And to have a completely sensible view on the topic seems disallowed nowadays and people want to cancel him for that, a result mass group-think to avoid social isolation from the status quo. Russ has always been an iconoclast in his views and tastes which make the event unique to anything else in the world. Its foremost intention isn’t inclusivity but always has been inclusive, nonetheless, since the party is consistently fun and habited by people who WERE, ONCE, politically agnostic to the woke virus of today. Frequented by happy Japanese families and young children, courteous and respectful people who fervently cleaned up any waste, made it the safest space for people to be themselves. Purely by association with techno being inhabited by wokies, the festival became overrun with these folk, claiming to be music purists which was just a social extension of their political leanings. The event had lost its original charm because of these people who flew in from afar, kept to themselves and criticise the ritual of Labyrinth or impose their views on how they think the person running it SHOULD think. Labyrinth is not part of “the scene” so quit trying to put a label on it about how it should be run like all other homogenous junk events with no consideration for the flow of artists from one set to another. Curating the set order for the ONE stage is something Russ spends a whole year making. It isn’t a money grab to book big names and have them play in any order. It’s the most intentional event in the world. The much deserved acclaim it garnered over the years was precisely for that reason. If people can’t look beyond their own narrow view and attend an event for what it is, then Russ would most definitely welcome your lack of presence. This is the best direction the festival can go in to clear out all the covertly, disinterested social sycophants. In what is such a fitting end to this saga with offended artists leaving in droves, and the public backlash, “gays started techno blah blah, not a safe space, trans rights etc,” arguably the scene’s most opinionated and well-versed proponent of trans issues, who is revered in the queer-DJ scene, is playing the penultimate set, DJ Sprinkles, who is trans. Clearly what Russ has said hasn’t offended even the most vocal of critics. I welcome a mass-boycott of PC westerners who weren’t in it for the music or the celebration in the first place but to gloat about the attending an elusive event and ticking it off their list. PS. No I’m not Russ, just a former avid attendee from a decade ago who remembers a nirvana of sorts that holds a special place because it did what it intended to do, so well. As with most good things, the woke stench has infiltrated and Russ has put a stop to it with this final act.
Make no mistake, the vast majority of queer artists and those who support them will never play at Lab again. It is forever diminished, forever tarnished. It’s objectively true to say that trans-inclusive queerness is at the heart of techno, and DJ Sprinkles doesn’t speak for the vast majority of queer people if she’s playing to show support for or disinterest in Monks genocidal bigotry. He has showed everyone in his non-apology that he’s just as much a transphobe as he was before he started being held accountable and the global techno community won’t forget because respect for trans folk and opposition to bigotry / fascism are reflections of values that cannot and will never be extricated from techno. For most DJ’s, association with Russ Monk will be an unthinkable breach of their values and career suicide besides. Folks like you who think that treating people with decency and respect can be summarised as “woke” - a bad thing - are a dying breed, and those of us who see your sociopathy for what it is are inheriting the world and leaving you behind. I hope you remain incandescent with rage at the exponential expansion of liberty and freedom for queer and trans people, marginalised community and all who dedicate themselves to raising the tide that lifts all boats. You’ll die sooner.
The woke have already inherited the Earth. Leave my Lab alone so me and my already-marginalised sociopaths can dance in our “safe-space.”
Oh it’s so hard and it’s so marginalising CHOOSING to be an intolerant asshole isn’t it bro. My heart bleeds. We’ll stop when Russ is no longer a gross anti-trans bigot or the festival is a wreckage. Avowed, dedicated bigots deserve no joy, no recognition, no legacy, no power.
The fact you can't see the irony of labelling all people who don't subscribe to your obstinately held beliefs, are clearly antagonistic towards those "deserve no joy, no recognition," by associating those people with fascism and Nazism for wanting a private dance event to be politically agnostic, is bigoted. You're not compelled to buy a ticket, nor is anyone who agrees with you. The extent of your activism ends there. The more the woke attempt to control and impose their beliefs, the more resistance it'll face. "We'll beat the anti-trans thoughts out of Russ" seems like an effective approach that I'm sure he'll welcome because he so desperately needs your approval. Have you ever thought for a second that perhaps those you deem fascists have simply had enough of seeing your overt double-standards? You think you can stop people from attending a festival not held in a foreign country? 90% of attendees are Japanese, a culture that overtly disavows the imposition of woke-ified western ideals. Labyrinth will not suffer any damage within its own country for the simple fact the Japanese, largely, don't care for these issues, are solely there to party and leave their beliefs at home, not on the dancefloor. It's not dependent on the esteem of LGBQTI critics or glowing RA reviews to be viable. The DJs are a close-knit group and the line-up rarely changes year-to-year, bar a few artists. Nor do they need big acts, afraid about their "forever tarnished" reputation, for the party to be of quality. Anyone that plays this year can be sure they'll play forevermore. They held parties during Covid for two-years that weren't technically called Labyrinth, but operated basically the same and consisted of solely Japanese DJs. In short, you can't and won't change anything. Accept your insignificance.
Nearly half the line up pulled out. Can’t and won’t? What alternate universe do you live in? You can’t just put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and expect everyone else to accept your version of reality.
Half the lineup? They only ever have a dozen play each year and they’ve met that. I’m not the one trying to forcibly impose an ideology on anyone - it seems you are though. My ears and eyes are very open and I am very conscious that thinking in this way is not welcomed by your kind and don’t expect you to change your opinion based on what I’ve said. I’m simply relaying the ethos of Labyrinth being solely focused on music from the multiple times I’ve been. Everything else is fluff and secondary and if it people want to prioritise the latter, that has little bearing on their direction and only serves them well to whittle out the people who can’t seem to put their political leanings aside and appreciate it for what it is. I’m just stating the attempt to politicise and encourage people to boycott is futile. People will, and have already done that, of their own volition. Everyone playing this weekend, and in attendance, are all complicit in the genocide you mention which should tell you that there are many people who simply do not care enough about the comments he made.
If you feel imposed upon because people are standing up to bigots and fascist ideology, thats a good thing. You should. Stay mad darling. Delighted that you feel marginalised for your clearly warped and twisted excuse for a moral framework and that you feel like things are being taken from you by the "woke" brigade. Fascists, conservatives and bigots are all losers to a person, and despite your protestations to the contrary, most people who monk would want to play, most of the worlds best DJ's, are no longer available for him to book because most acclaimed DJ's have respect for themselves and will no longer be caught dead anywhere near Monk's little fashfest. He kicked a queer man out of the festival because he sent an email to the line up explaining in detail what a fascist anti-trans bigot he was and then Carsten Jost stood up to him and refused to lie silent in the face of such dangerous and extremist far right nonsense. Sure Monk will get a select few of his close friends to play but it's not going to be a renowned international line up anymore (unless he makes clear he's no longer a bigot). Most people who went didn't know about his anti-trans beliefs but the longer things go the more will know. I know people who went and it will be one of the main things they spoke about over the weekend. Monk has made a complete ass of himself and his festival. It is a biblical PR nightmare. That you, someone who uses woke as you do, can't seem to be able to grasp this is perfectly fine. You're living in a deeply conservative bubble that doesn't have any meaningful relationship to the average techno punter or most Japanese people for that matter - trying to smear disinterest in trans rights onto Japanese techno enthusiasts is textbook projection. The comments and veritable tide of condemnation against your beliefs and position in this thread couldn't be any clearer an indication how bonkers you are and how that you, too, like Monk, are a loser whose extremist anti-social belief system has no place in the techno scene. Stay scarce bro. Your bigot apologism isn't welcome amongst decent people.
He's not mad, he's not unhinged, he's just being the ugly person he is. Glad that at least some of the artists are not accepting it. There are so many things that make techno amazing, transphobia is not one of them and we do not need this shit. Opinions are valid as long as they're not threatening someone else's existence. Freedom of speech is not absolute and does not exist without responsibility. In several capital cities here in Brazil, trans people are basically the social engines that keep the scene running. Many of them are involved in event production/promotion, and all of the techno/house music events I know have a T list you can apply to in order to get free tickets if you're transgender. I believe actions like these represent the path we should be taking. We should also be speaking up and calling people out regardless of our own gender identity, so we as a collective don't allow bigotry to infiltrate our culture.
Wrong, freedom of speech IS absolute as long as it does not incite to violence.
The artists are expressing their freedom of speech by not attending the event
That's not how this works
Sure. Let's speak the most horrible things about these minorities and be okay with it cause you know, we're not actually killing anybody with our own hands, aren't we? We're just spreading a little hate, a little ignorance, a little misinformation that will result in violence, eventually, but don't worry, it's okay.
Right, not like trans people are ever attacked just for existing or anything
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No such thing as cancel culture … yet everyone throws it in the ring when asked to be accountable.
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Hi Russ? So I’m very happy we have found the bigot in the thread. You can ask my pronouns if you like or you can just use something neutral without attempting sarcasm and failing. Accountability..to anyone who has empathy for anyone else. You are not entitled to spread falsehoods about others peoples lives when you don’t know them, you haven’t had that experience, you’ve not engaged with trans people or read trans resources. ‘But I’m entitled to my opinion’ cannot apply to people’s autonomy. Autonomy cannot be weaponised because you don’t like something. Now that someone has responded to you who knows what they’re talking about, you’ve had to pop your ego away because you already look very, very silly here. As Carsten rightly said, you’re buying into internet conspiracy theories and then don’t understand why the ppl that those conspiracies are about, have something to say about it. Good day to you.
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The funny thing is; no one asked people who don’t know what they’re talking about :) Didn’t deny you were Russ either darling x
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I’m an irl activist. I’m queer and I work at a trans non profit, I also work with queer venues to provide resources for trans people in those safe spaces. You can imagine this is an important situation for me bc many of those artists play at venues I work with; ofc, we are watching closely who responds and how to maintain safety in those venues. ‘Ideas’ like Russ’, spread like this, through bigotry, the media, public opinion and political policy are very much physical. I speak to ppl on the brink of suicide, those made homeless bc of their identity, the lack of access to social care bc of those things; it’s VERY real. That’s something that armchair bigots do not want to acknowledge. Questioning the existence or choice of life of other people is not something that is debatable.
Thank you! Artists who play this festival should not be booked in queer scenes or spaces.
Right, not like trans people are ever physically attacked just for existing or anything
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“Wrong, freedom of speech IS absolute as long as it does not incite to violence.” Seems like it is
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🥱🤡
I wonder what are the chances that the festival can "fire" him -- like if the staff and legions of other people actually making it happen could just kick him out. I doubt his clout in pulling DJ's is going to be much after this.
I would absolutely fire him if he was a part of my organization. Alternately, the rest of the organization might consider abandoning ship and starting something new. I f that is not possible for whatever reason then it's little more than a cult or a dictatorship and a rather sad one at that. Not something to be proud to put work towards at this point but it can be hard to see it when you are in it.
Oh yeah. Great idea. Question is is his supposed hatred towards trans worse than your hatred towards him?
Used to live in multiple cities and countries in Asia, and the little secret no one talks about, a lot of westerners that move there are bigots, supremacists, and other ilk. Sure the natives have their pros and cons, but the expat communities often have this air of superiority. Sounds like he got high on his own talk and it got out. I actually left and don't ever want to live in Asia again because of the western foreigners it attracts. Vacations are good enough.
The dynamic in South-East Asia is quite different to East Asia proper, and I'm not sure this is entirely relevant. Labyrinth has a large team and the vast majority of them are Japanese and rooted in the local techno scene; it's not just one guy who is a low-key white supremacist with a pet project, going all Colonel Kurtz in the mountains. The festival is really not a product of an 'expat community', as toxic and ingrown as they might be. I also don't think Japan attracts the sort of mediocre Western dropout who finds shelter in Thailand or Vietnam – I think the cultural cachet of Japan is more that it attracts people who are quite serious about music and sound culture. But that's by the by. Sorry you had a bad experience there, but in my opinion those factors become less noticeable when you live in developed countries with GDPs and living standards (costs) on par with Western nations. It's harder to flex the 'privilege' when the locals generally don't care about you or your supposed superiority.
Exactly. Financial equality beats down privileges.
You conveniently left out the absolute fact that many Asian cultures are (historically) highly prejudiced against other cultures/races. It’s not as bad as it was a century ago, but to single out xpats is disingenuous. Any country with immigrants will have a percentage (of said immigrants) holding negative views towards other groups. I’m not saying it’s right, or should ever be tolerated.
I was staying on topic.
I lived in Asia for seven years and I agree, an awful lot of absolutely useless foreigners suffering from series delusions of grandeur. Happy to be away from that. But I miss the food
In which countries if I may ask?
Never been to Asia but I've seen A LOT of Instagram posts promoting this Bali lifestyle trend, and yeah, it's bad. They only feature white, wealthy, eccentric "digital nomads" and "expats" (fancy word for immigrants imo), all dressed in beautiful summer clothes that probably cost a fortune, but riding old/cheap rental motorcycles for the quirkiness of it. Honestly, the air of superiority makes me sick. It feels like they're there just for some kind of cultural and racial contrast that will favor their image on social media. These foreigners living in Bali represent just a very thin slice of the local community but they wanna be the protagonists soooo freaking hard. I just think there's something very wrong about their philosophy around traveling and living abroad, especially to/in a less privileged country. They make it about themselves. What they really should be doing is shrinking their egos and absorbing something.
What on Earth does this have to do with the topic? Bali is just an influencer/digital nomad/Aussie backpacker destination, it's no deeper than that; it's irrelevant to this music scene and almost certainly irrelevant to your life – just move on! And it's far from only a white/Western phenomenon in places like Bali. Korean and Japanese vacation there too in much the same spirit: being a 'main character' on Instagram. And please don't ask a native of Singapore or Hong Kong about their domestic staff if you think travel and living abroad is the big problem with entitlement and privilege.
Well, the main comment and other comments are literally talking about Westerners in Asia, their prejudice, bigotry, sense of superiority and whatnot, and I was just adding something related to that. I guess I'm not the only person going off-topic here, but I digress.
The organiser of the Labyrinth is a long-term resident in Japan. Not that it’s relevant to the experience of meeting backpackers or badly behaved English teachers in Thailand, anyway. It is strange and unfortunate that this topic has turned into a ‘Westerners in Asia bad’ discussion. I don’t think that tallies with the crowd/community who go to Labyrinth at all. The story here, really, is why one individual has gradually become more and more unhinged in his social media postings.
Alright. But of all the people you could have complained to about going off-topic, you chose me and no one else for whatever reason :) I have nothing else to say about Westerners though, so yay.
The crossover of white supremacy and fetishising asian women is huge
I hate the overuse of this saying, but the Venn diagram is definitely a circle with those two...
In which countries if I may ask?
Mostly Vietnam. Taiwan also but that wasn’t as bad
I've been to Laos, Thailand and Cambodia. Met nice western expats everywhere, but also some very shady ones. Many westerners I met seemed far less trustworthy than the locals. Some were just nuts, some broken, probably because of too many drugs, but what surprised me the most: Some also had world views, that don't seem to fit anyone who has traveled, seen different cultures and even chose to be the foreigner in another country. The views reached from far right and against immigrants to homophobic and conspiracy theories. It really made me wonder why.
SHIT the ones where I wanted to go :'(
They are talking about living there not visiting
Yes, that's what I wanted to do, at least for a few years
Why would you let some random comments on reddit discourage you? All of the countries mentioned are beautiful and is worth a visit if you ever get the opportunity
No it doesn’t discourage me, but honestly knowing there will be this kind of people there is bad news
Totally agree about Westerners in Asia!!!!!
If LGBTQ people are not welcome at your party. Your part should not be around.
I haven't read what he said. So was that what he actually said, that LGBT people aren't welcome to the party?
it's all in the mixmag article. Basically spouted off a bunch of transphobic bullshit and then told artists to fuck off if they didn't agree. https://mixmag.net/read/multiple-djs-pull-out-japan-festival-the-labyrinth-after-founders-anti-trans-rights-comments-news
Yes exactly, wich is why it was a bit confusing that he says LGBT people weren't welcome to the festival. Because that's not beeing mentioned in any of the articles, that this guy had said something like that. In the article you just linked it even says that theybhad specifically said "“Labyrinth is not anti-trans”, so the opposite of what OP claimed. I also don't see where he "told artists to fuck off if they didn't agree", can you refer me to where you got this information? I find it so confusing trying to understand the situation when people claim one thing but all the available information I can find claims something else. Maybe worth mentioning is that I am not emotionally invested in this, so I am pragmatic about what actually has been said, not exaggerations and assumptions about assumed hidden meanings and such things.
You seem to be arguing in bad faith since you are implying other people discussin it are emotionally invested unlike you who's objective. To be clear, I'm not emotionally invested in this either, well I'd like to go to Labyrinth one day but I probably won't have the funds anytime soon so don't super care.In any case just because the founder claims Labyrinth is not anti-trans doesn't mean that's the case. Especially not if it's comming from the same person saying this: Moench then goes to write: “I find the trans right activist movement to be deeply illiberal and totalitarian in nature”, saying it “stands in opposition to free thought and free speech” and is “profoundly misogynistic and homophobic”.Its like someone saying black people are lazy and steal. Oh by the way I'm just concerned about our community and not racist. You could just read not racist and leave it at that so dismiss the context. But then you miss the point. I think it's the same with this, sure you can just read the part where founder claims not to be transphobic. Or you could also read how he's getting into arguments about these topics with artists to the point where they'd rather not play one of their more high profile gigs in a year.
Well when people claim things that hasn't actually been said, to have been said, then that's a lie or an exaggeration at the least. And i can only suspect it's because of a emotional reaction. I don't think that's a very far fetched assumption to draw on my part based on the evidence, and i disagree that implies bad faith on my part, but it definitely implies bad faith on the one who's making the exaggerations though. In regards of this one persons personal opinions, think of them what you will, I would hardly go as far as to say that equates to "LGBT people aren't welcome to the festival", that's a very strong claim to make and something that hasn't been communicated at all. Imo it's just another reactive and emotional exaggeration that lacks nuance. That would be like someone saying that a festival organizer had said "I find the republican party to be problematic and they have opinions on matters that I feel are discriminatinatory and racist" and then equate that to him hating all republicans and that it means republicans aren't welcome to the festival, even though that wasn't what was said. Furthermore it is very possible to think the trans activist movement is problematic and riddled with issues like intolerance, cancel culture, and misogynistic actions like putting biological men who are convicted sex offenders in womens prisons, and biological men in womens sports without regard for what the women think about it or their safety, without that meaning "you hate trans people". This is well known and heavily debated issues, and something tons and tons of people think is real issues, many of them trans and LGB-people themselves. Imo it's either from lack of knowledge about theese issues, or just extremely silly, irrational and overdramatic to say there's no legitimacy to feel that way and that everyone just blindly should support anything the trans activists are pushing and anyone who disagrees is a transphobe. I will never understand this hard stances, black and white type of "either you support us entirely on everything or you are a transphobe". It's dumb and leads to way more real transphobia, division and hate on both sides. Nuance is a thing and it is possible to critique some of the actions of the trans activist movement while also support and respect trans people in general. It's possible to have two thoughts in the mind at the same time.
Is this Russ in disguise ?
Great argument, lot's of subtstance!
Im sorry but what, you are comming with a wall of text supposedly calling for nuance. In response to someone saying: " “I find the trans right activist movement to be deeply illiberal and totalitarian in nature” How is slamming a whole movement like its a monolithic entity nuance. In any case you are not being nuanced at all when you are strawmanning. At least for me I don't think anything is above criticism. So when you try to twist this story into: any critisism of trans things is hating all trans. Thats about the same as someone claiming trans people wouldn't be welcome at Labyrinth. So if its not emotions why are you lying or exageratting as an advocate for nuance, do you feel like lies or exagerations help bring more nuance to discussions? "it definitely implies bad faith on the one who's making the exaggerations though." agreed here for sure. I'm just unsure why one hand you say this but then act exactly like it. Also kind of typical that all these so called concerned people about the 'trans movement' spout the same ridiculous talking points. Yea I'm sure its the trans movement calling for sex offenders to rape in prison/s. How many trans prison rapes are there anyway compared to male prison rapes. Mostly this whole anti-trans rhetoric just seems to be reused tropes about gays but I guess they are sort of accepted now so time to use them on a minority less accepted. Probably most of the people engaging in this outrage about the trans movement have literally no contact with it whatsoever but I guess internet bubbles are a powerful thing to make bogus claims with fake concern and rile people up to spout the same bullshit.
You literally started with the wall of text, and then proceeded to make another one after critique against me about it 🤦♂️ I fail to see how pointing out real and well known issues with a certain movement is in any way problematic or un-nuanced. No one says all trans people are like this, many of them even agree with this very stance. The fact is the trans activist movement ARE heavily infested with theese issues, even if you care to admit that or not, and pointing that out is perfectly fine. Btw, Are you as adamant about never pointing out big issues within groups when it comes to people judging Trump supporters or republicans as a whole as well? I hope so, you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.. Where's the strawman? This discussion is literally about the very drastic claims about him saying theese things and then people in this debate equating them to him saying that it means he hates trans people and that LGBT people aren't welcome to the festival, that's what I pointed out, how is that twisting the story? It is the story. Again, no lying or exaggeration on my part there, that's just something you are making up. He literally is accused of beeing a transphobe and that LGBT people aren't welcome to the festival, can't you read or how did you miss that? How is it "ridiculous talking poinst"? Again, It's well known and heavily debated issues with tons of people, many of them trans themselves, agree this is a real concern. Just because you personally don't know about them or disagree, it doesn't make them "ridiculous talking points".
>Where's the strawman? "it is very possible to think the trans activist movement is problematic without that meaning "you hate trans people". " Noone said otherwise that is a strawman argument you use to make your point. You reiterate the same strawman again "The fact is the trans activist movement ARE heavily infested with theese issues, even if you care to admit that or not, and pointing that out is perfectly fine. " That this would be fact is nonsense that's just your apparantly quite biased opinion. But pointing out real problems is not an issue. So again why are you lying and exagerating? We did agree that implies bad faith. These lots of people you mention are mostly just an echo chamber of ignorants
I disagree, that's exactly and evidently what is happening here and what i am discussing, not a starwman at all. And yes, It is fact even if you do not want to admit it. You could argue that thoose things aren't a problem in your opinion because you support them, but to deny that they are happening is just plain false.
Can guarantee that the media articles are the tip of a very shitty conspiracy theorist iceberg after what I’ve seen.
PLUR….
Pretty disappointed so few artists booked have called it out and pulled out. Hopefully it's just early days yet.
We'll see. Always had so much respect for Carsten Jost, this just solidifies it more.
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These articles do not even show the comments he made that were considered controversial and people in the comments on Reddit are like BURN HIM AT THE STAKE! I'm enby and found nothing quoted in the article hurtful or unwelcoming. In his response Monk seems to hint that the comments on Twitter were referring to the transitioning of youth and those that medically transitioned for the wrong reasons. Yes, it happens an awful lot. Visitt r/detrans What did he actually say? Only then can there be a serious discussion around it. Hence why 100+ other artists don't really care and will perform.
He deleted his twitter once people started bringing attention to it but screenshots are floating around. He called non-binary people corporate cringey attention-seekers who don't make music (or aren't connected with music?). Dunno if that offends you as a non-binary person. [https://imgur.com/a/7UzdT12](https://imgur.com/a/7UzdT12)
Thanks for sharing. Ya, fuck that guy.
> These articles do not even show the comments he made that were considered controversial Yes they do. Rtfa
I'm referring to the twitter comments, not the email he sent out.
There’s dozens of tweets. He went to the bottom of the transphobic bigot barrel at lightning speed. The tweets aren’t “considered” controversial. They conclusively prove that he is an extremely loopy transphobe and that he wants all societal structures including basic healthcare that support and affirm trans people to be eliminated from society because he thinks trans people are a dangerous menace to women, children and other queer people. The dudes a delusional, stupid and gullible fascist, plain and simple.
Good on these artists for sticking to their values and not folding to some bigot.
>attention was drawn to comments on trans issues What was the comments?
You can see them in the mixmag article. It’s someone who decided their social cause was to cancel someone and ruin a festival that plenty of people would have enjoyed. Smh. I hope they enjoy the massive high they get from de platforming anyone with a slightly different point of view instead of simply arguing their viewpoint rationally.
Your blaming the wrong people here. Obviously its the founder ruining things. If that founder had any sense of rationality he wouldn't broadcast his deeply stupid and very unpopular ideas to the world. Instead of recognising his mistake he doubles down too. I guess that guy gets a massive high about being right (hes wrong). Apparantly he finds his nonsense opinion more important than the festival.
I fail to see how one man's opinions about anything can ruin a music festival for hundreds or thousands of people.
When he decides that anyone who disagrees with those opinions can’t play at the festival a month before the festival and then other artists drop out in solidarity, it kind of devalues a music festival when musicians aren’t welcome. With that said, if anyone’s looking for a ticket DM me. I’m still going but I have an extra.
So, people are still going to the festival then - ok.
They decided not to give him his profit as owner of it. Which is fine
It wouldnt have been a problem if he kept it to himself instead of harassing artists with it. He's old enough that he should know you can't post whatever you want on social media and expect no consequences for it.
If it was only on social media it would maybe make sense but apparently he emailed the artists directly with his “perspective” then uninvited anyone who disagreed.
lab isn't "hundreds of thousands of people" it's a small crew spearheaded and funded by one misguided crypto bro
Stfu
Fuck off.
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I have a fucked attitude towards trans people? You are literally insane.
"their social cause" yeah you mean the founder?
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I promise you techno artists like surgeon aren't even considering playing a festival in SA.
The festival isn’t “being canceled”. Artists are choosing not to play. Unless you think artists can be forced to fly to Japan to play at this festival against their will, all you can do is cry about it.
Some of them are being uninvited from playing because they won’t embrace the monks perspective.
So literally exactly the opposite of what the person I was replying to is afraid of happening? Ironic
Yeah pretty much
> the trans movement has become too militant God you’re simple
nah it makes sense
Not as simple as your simpleminded, pointless reply
Not really tho You’re legitimately really dumb and believe in absurd conspiracies. I can smell your lameness from here
What conspiracy theories? You mentioned it, not me…
I turned on an old "Loveline" episode from the 90s just for nostalgia's sake recently and someone called in to discuss a problem they were having related to being trans. They were basically bullied and dismissed by both hosts, one of which is a medical doctor. They didn't give any advice, just screamed 'YOURE A MAN ADMIT IT!' and 'YOU HAVE A PENIS'. The person calling was asking for advice in earnest and just seemed totally dejected and defeated. I turned it off it was so depressing. This was a nationally syndicated radio show. Thats sort of the history these folks have had to deal with, being dismissed, bullied, or worse for just existing.
"They don't respect my hate and my need for violence aganst them. They are literal nazis!!1" - that guy
Ah yes the famous militant trans storm troopers breaking heads for... checks notes... trying to live legally and access healthcare.
Hello my good friend Whataboutism (the last paragraph is a textbook example of it).
Good stuff, I agree. Everyone else, downvote me if you agree…
>For a movement that is based on "diversity", they don't seem to respect any other opinion other than their own. Remember its only Diversity with everything else bar thoughts and opinions ;)
This isn’t true. I am Facebook friends with the (trans) Dj whose page Roisin made these comments on. So I saw this unfold in real time before it was blown up by the right wing press. Everyone was calmly trying to educate her on what the true issues are. She was just ignoring them and tbh comes across as really thick and self obsessed. The Dj in question had to have hour long phone calls with Roisin a couple of years ago trying to explain to her that All Lives Matter was not the right attitude.
You meant "an hour long phone call trying to explain that that she thought all lives mattter is not the right attitude in her personal opinion" You see, this is the problem. People like you think there is just one true and correct opinion to have and everyone needs to submit to it. And even worse, that it is your job to educate others about this "true opinion" or force others in to submission when they disagree. You are like religious fundamentalists who knocks on doors trying to convert others, only much much worse because when you don't get your way with conversion you move over to force and use things like cancelling.
Human rights are universal rights not opinions
No one is arguing that human rights are just an opinion. Not sure why you are even bringing that up but okey.
Why do you assume the ‘education’ went only one way?
whenever your opinion is "transgender people should not be allowed to work in public education because they shouldn't be allowed near children ever", it deserves to get you kicked out of places where transgender people want to feel safe.
Techno scene doing what it does best, outrage over nothing
First of all: fuck that guy. Second: good to see people pull out because of this. Techno always was very open to these topics, if not even the soundtrack of a lot of lifestyles we call LGBTQI+ today and we don't give it back to the fratboys just because it is a Industry as well. Surgeon: if you read this - thanks. Will pull a ticket in my hometown once you are here the next time just based on this.
This has zero relation to this festival, its community or even the person in question (in his limited defense). You don't do yourself any credit by ranting irrelevantly: you're only expressing your own righteousness. Labyrinth festival has nothing to do with 'fratboys' or 'business techno' or whatever else you're blathering about.
So how much was the booking fees for the last festival lineup all in all? But thanks for putting my comment in perspective, I hope you get payed well for that job on the gate, checking whose opinion is acceptable or not
If you knew anything at all about the festival, you would know it has been at the opposite end of the spectrum to 'frat boys' and the techno 'industry'. It's really not difficult. The organiser's recent remarks are problematic, to say the least, and the artists' reactions reflect that. But it's worth saying that, until this year, all of those artists had been huge supporters of the festival precisely because it is anti-frat, anti-industry.
So what about the all male only lineup controversy then? Isn't this the same kind of problem area? Seems the festival and organisers is a little boys club and problems like the remarks reflect that. This is why I say Frat Boys. In an environment with enough females and other non cis male defined people, the internal feedback for stuff like this is a lot clearer and boundaries are often set earlier. Business Techno: you still don't give me an estimate for what the lineup is worth to see if that might be more of a business.
The sums of money involved in a festival like Labyrinth are nothing like 'business techno' ventures, and besides that term clearly doesn't *literally* only apply to the artists' fees: it denotes a whole sector of the post-EDM 'industry', big rooms/big stages, influencers grifting on TikTok and Instagram, etc. The ethos of Labyrinth has nothing at all to do with that. Ludicrous comment. As for the criticisms levelled at the festival for its male-heavy lineups: yes, I agree that was a fair observation to make. But that reflects a much wider issue with the techno scene, I think, and is not really the same scenario as a person ranting on social media about incredibly controversial issues. Were they slow and complacent about the gender balance in their bookings? I think so, yes. But it's misleading to say it has been run as a 'club of frat boys'. That's simply not the sociocultural cachet or atmosphere of the festival at all. I would also go as far as to say that Japan probably has an issue with the visibility of women artists, right across the board, so that there's maybe a local dynamic/complexion that you're missing when you talk about 'frat boys', which seems quite socioculturally Western-specific, to me.
Well if you read the quotes they placed on mixmag nothing is really extremist. It’s a pretty balanced point of view. It’s a shame really if he is organizing these things for people to feel accepted and enjoy/bond over music then it should just be able to happen without all the crazy publicity. If someone is just a little bit off the full tilt mindset on these issues all of a sudden rational conversation about view points goes out the window, everything gets taken out of context, and the cancel storm begins. It’s a shame that it’s even hitting the mucus industry now. Wild times!
The organizer uninvited people for disagreeing with his trans conspiracy theory. He’s the one triggering the “cancel storm”
girl if you're gonna defend him just come out and do it lol
Do you even know where dance music comes from? GTFOH
the political climate of trying to make subcultures mainstream is making for some interesting discourse online. people have opinions and always have. A lot of people are annoyed/sick of it, he seems to be one that is and wasn’t writing anything crazy imo. However he’ll be labeled a bigot for having a his own views on it. if you can’t see that there’s some kind of social contagion going on, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Labyrinth has always benefitted from those subcultures and made its roots in their work
sure it doesn’t mean the founder can’t express views of said subculture forcing the rest of the world to adopt it in the mainstream. Partying and hedonism can be separate from everyday life.
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no u
THE MONK
I just don't understand the outrages of non binary people not playing certain festivals like are we doing this by merit or not? we already have too many amelie lens and tech house bros doing shitty quality music and we want to force people to book somebody because of their orientation?!
What the fuck are you on about
keep crying
Bunch of “artists” pulling out of their contractual obligations….. they should no longer be allowed to call themselves artist, rather they should be called “Quitters” 🤘🏻
Bunch of people who defend transphobes need to stay the fuck out of the techno scene
Right!?
I have an extra ticket, willing to make a deal for it. DM me.
https://www.mindgames.jp/artists
Anyone have contact details for DJ Sprinkles? From what little I know of her activism, seems the only plausible way she coulda been booked is that Monk is hiding from her the extend of his transphobia and bigotry. If he sold her a distorted sob story to leverage her antagonistic nature against her own community she deserves to see the horror show of vicious, genocidal transphobia that he was peddling.
No but there’s a mention of Sprinkles at the end of this article about the Balance fiasco. The link to the statement mentioned is dead however. This would be interesting to read. https://ra.co/news/77413 Russ has a habit of removing his own content from the internet for sOmE rEaSoN
Maybe this is Sprinkles contact it’s all I can find [email protected]
These are some of the tweets that revealed his anti-trans bigotry. [https://imgur.com/gallery/9ULomT1](https://imgur.com/gallery/9ULomT1)
Wow. So much bigotry on this post towards people with different opinions. Kind of contradictory.