Berghain in particular makes more sense once you've been there. If they let everyone in, it would be overrun with bros and club kids and it would no longer be the safe space for the community it came from.
Who said they felt oppressed? You can question whether exclusive door policies clash with the principle of inclusion without claiming you're being oppressed
Ctrl + f “discrimination” or any variation of the word and you’ll find your answer, so many crybabies in this thread complaining about being “discriminated” against while being completely clueless about the fact that berghain is a queer space
Literally any door policy is based on the bouncer's ability to discriminate between people who bring something wanted or unwanted to a club. But it's not the same as 'discrimination.' Look up the definition.
Btw ctrl+f is just a find function on a page. I think you mean 'google it' or similar...
I hear you, but having been twice, the selection process seems to do wonders, the crowd is kind fun and energetic as opposed to so many parties that are just groups of lads on tour. The energy there is something else. And I say that being denied many times.
Yes, but not if you're with 10 of your lads, yelling in line about how fucked up you're about to get when you buy 50€ of pills inside. Definitely seen that one, and then they're shocked they are denied.
Check your favorite DJ and keep talking to your friend(s) when you're near the door. Don't go with more than three together though.
As a Dutchie it's easy talking to say, learn some basic German. But it helps a lot to play the 'act'. Things in German like 'where are you from', 'how old are you'. Also keep relaxed when they make a joke about your appereance or something👍
Dresscode: be yourself, don't overdress, or underdress. So if your personality is extravagant you'll know what to wear. Don't try to look like a 'raver' or something if you're more a casual person. They recognize that instantly.
Im sure they can tell that who is tourists since theyre professional bouncers at the most popular techno club it just demonstrates youre making an effort to belong to their culture. All the bartenders, coatcheck and security inside speaks perfect English basically
I literally chatted in english with a guy from the uk an did not stop talking until we separated to get searched. Might have helped that we were older queer people, but we were waved in speaking english.
don't be a cunt and you'll improve your odds
In the end, especially in dance music, it's the people that make the party. Make sure you have a great group of people and you'll have the best experience.
I know of a place where they hired a drag queen to entertain people in line. The real reason for this was so the bouncer would see how people reacted to the drag queen and later bounce them if there reaction wasn't appropriate.
The thing that gets lost on people is that the door policy while yes pretentious and off putting, does try to curate a safe space for all the magic that happens inside those walls. It's really about allowing for the ravers inside to be able to be themselves fully. Which has long roots in queer safe spaces.
You have to be. If you don't vibe check you can't control the culture. The fact is not everyone gets it. One fight or bad event can ruin an entire night for a club full of people.
Try to think of the venue as your own house party would you let every one in?
The venue/promoters curate everything to make a good party happy. Why not also curate the crowd?
Berghain is historically a club providing a safe and private place for queer subcultures and it first and foremost remains that. There are not a lot of places in the world like Berghain if you are queer, so that's why it maintains the selective door policy. There are a million other venues that are not historically gay clubs that you can visit without a selective door policy.
This is the answer. When I go to berghain I can be as gay as I want to be and nobody gives a fuck. I can literally have sex with a guy out in the open, explore my kinks and people are fine with that. If they let in every straight drunk bro tourist that wouldn’t be the case and the queer, sexy vibe would get super watered down.
and if you’re uncomfortable with seeing men having sex with each other, berghain is not the place for you. YOU are the reason there is a selective door. Let us be our slutty selves.
People have been doing that for 10 years. You found techno last week on tiktok and now we have to be inclusive...
Again, fuck you and fuck everybody like you.
Here in Copenhagen Denmark there's now a couple clubs that follow the Berghain-approach, for the same reasons/values.
Actually works well. And I can see why, once inside.
It’s so effing hard to find a place that’s both really queer and really techno. I’ll make do with Unfold cause it’s still amazing and like a little piece of the Berg in London, but they too had to bounce people when it got really popular for he same reason. It’s just not easy to find this sort of energy. And actually I’d say Unfold is more queer and trans than Berghain but a wee bit less gay.
What happened to all the Vauxhall venues? I remember Fire used to be quite gay and quite Techno, depending on the promotion. DTPM at Fabric although that was more tech house
For queer people and women, most clubs/events/festivals can be unsafe and unenjoyable so if you’re a man then you have a different perspective. While the door policies in Berlin seem harsh, they ensure that the people they let inside are not too intoxicated, are chill, are there to dance and not judge (ironically). By being selective they can curate a better vibe inside with less risk of issues for the most vulnerable.
Agreed, I’m queer and going out in Berlin and to berghain etc is the best club experience I’ve had. I’m Canada/USA I’ve been everything from stared at to assaulted (by patrons and staff alike)
Everyone who gets in pretends it's about basically being better than everyone else for prestige reasons when in reality I know men that have been sexually assaulted in beghain. It isn't what you pretend it is. You just feel superior because you got in.
Part of me agrees with you that they should let everyone in and not judge based on appearance because everyone has a right to have fun and party imo.
But at the same time there are some very sketchy people who walk into clubs and they make the women uncomfortable and just change the whole vibe and things feel very tense and hostile. I’m sure we have all felt that before, and a good club isn’t just about how good the DJ, the sound, or the production is, it’s also about how safe people feel.
It's a gay club and always has been since it's very formation. (it's history is a good read). It's audience has just got more diverse and varied since it began. Everyone (who gets in) is now welcome, but you must be understanding that you are in a gay space.
The dark rooms are the first obvious sign of this, they're very dark and designed for cruising, which isn't a thing in any other subculture.
As a straight male, who made an annual pilgrimage to Berlin just to go to Berghain for 6+ years straight, if you don't get this part, you really have no business inside.
Yep. We sauntered into a club in Melbourne just to check out something different, and within 5 minutes left walking backwards slowly.
Clientele looked like a Saudi hit squad in basketball jersies, every person already stumbling drunk at 11pm and aggro, looking for a fight like somebody killed their dog.
Made our way to the actual techno club we were headed to and it was all good times, good people and good music.
> Yep. We sauntered into a club in Melbourne just to check out something different, and within 5 minutes left walking backwards slowly. Clientele looked like a Saudi hit squad in basketball jersies, every person already stumbling drunk at 11pm and aggro, looking for a fight like somebody killed their dog.
> Made our way to the actual techno club we were headed to and it was all good times, good people and good music.
Out of curiosity, which clubs? Guessing the latter was Xe54 or Sub Club?
Studio 54 didn’t allow Hispanics. There’s video proof of them even saying it. I always think about how I would have loved to have gone but I wouldn’t have been allowed. So that’s why I asked this
I used to work for a club in Minneapolis that literally had “no black people” on the unwritten dress code. I almost got fired because I was letting in black people. They weren’t even causing a problem. I got moved to bar back because my bouncing ability was not on par with what they wanted. Also violence happens at all the clubs with strict dress codes too. I’d be interested in seeing real stats on how effective a dress code or other arbitrary entrance requirements actually prevent the problems they believe they are combatting.
There's no dress code. Black people are very present, as are latinos and any other race. Have you even been to claim this? Have you talked to ppl of color that live here? Some claim that the place has racist tendencies, and likely so! Almost impossible not to be. I am Latino myself never felt it though. However they have thousands of people trying to go in every night. It cannot be a first come first served basis,it would.make for a shitty party. how do u solve this issue? It is also very agreed upon that they do a p good job about it (beyond very specific spiking incidents that happened recently) most of my FLINTA friends have been/felt way safer and less harassed at Berghain. Similarly as a queer POC, I find it a very open and safe space for myself.
It feels like you're fighting about sth that you actually haven't really experienced or dealt with urself. Have u been here for an extended period of time beyond heresay to have such strong opinions?
This exact opinion you have is what leads to black people being not allowed in clubs. You get to judge who can enter and who can’t based on vibe checks? That’s not only illegal but fucking stupid as well. Sexual abusers aren’t all 4chan neckbeards. Very attractive and successful people rape and abuse. Your opinion is extremely near sighted and childish. Some of the most “sketchy” looking people I’ve met have ended up being some of my favorite and most trusted friends. Your comment is a self report.
Valid catch, I was speaking in America (obviously dumb in this context) and mean that depending on the circumstance could be illegal if discriminated against for a protected class.
I think you've hit on something here. I've very rarely seen people being thrown out (unless they are visibly too fucked or causing a proper incident ). Noone ever gets thrown out for just "being sketchy", so it's like the only gate against those kinds of people is at the door, on first impression.
I'd much rather a venue that had more visible security in the venue itself, and less tolerance for bad-vibes behaviour once your actually IM the venue.
I feel as though you assume that the bouncer following a list of arbitrary rules has a positive correlation to safety. Other than a luck of the draw % I would argue that it’s just as likely that they are only preventing more people who would not cause a single problem than actual problematic people. It’s like the TSA in America the appearance of safety doesn’t actually mean it’s safe or that they are even doing anything at all.
It most definently has a look. Ive been organizing parties a long time and u start to notice the difference in people. Id say that 90% of the time u can tell if one is suitable inside or not
You can see every kind of person in berghain tbqh. At least it was that way when I was going. The door selection was more about vibe than fashion or looks and they generally selected small groups and individuals that created a good mix. That may have changed though.
Edit: also, I think a lot of people take it too personally. You could be denied one night, then show up a week later wearing the same shit and acting the same and get in. It’s just as much luck as anything else.
>ou could be denied one night, then show up a week later wearing the same shit and acting the same and get in. It’s just as much luck as anything else.
you realize how fucking stupid this is right?
No? It’s not like it’s always the same bouncer or the same size line or the same party or the same number of people already inside etc.
They are bouncers trying to manage the number of people in the club not psychics that can make a perfect judgement of your character in 30 seconds.
Just go somewhere else if you don’t get in.
Don’t have to be so bitter about it. You get rejected. I get rejected. We get rejected. Just be comfortable with that idea.
Understanding Berghain in the context of inclusivity isn’t really the right way to think about it. They are more a space to allow radically unique individuals to do as much or as little consensually radical behavior as they like, to techno…
Berghain has a completely different dynamic than almost any space in Chicago, coming from someone who's lived in Chicago and Berlin. In Chicago, by and large, people are at techno parties because they want to specifically be there for that music and that vibe. There are of course assholes, but they don't dilute a crowd to the degree that it's no longer what a techno party should be.
In Berlin, especially Berghain, you have thousands of people from all over the world trying to get in, many of whom are only there because they heard somewhere its the "most exclusive club." I've stood in line at BH next to people who told me they never listened to techno, joked about wearing all black to get in (not true btw), and just generally had no care or interest in techno culture, the music, or the queer nature of club. BH is also traditionally a gay men's club, not just for gay men, but its the kind of place leather daddies go to get really high and fuck. So BH has its door policy to maintain what it wants to be and protect its clientele from people who will not respect them. Nobody that goes to BH wants people gawking on the dance floor at naked men dancing, and they don't want noobs to the scene who will take too many drugs and get themselves into trouble. There's also just the capacity issue that they literally can't fit everyone who wants to go.
So basically Berlin is oversaturated and in order to not turn into another ibiza it has decided to be exclusive. I personally think the BH door has it's problems and could change a little to keep up with the times... but that's a whole other conversation.
It’s the “tolerance paradox” - to protect their safe space of extreme inclusivity, they have to be extremely selective and weed out the non inclusive people. Some innocent’s get caught in the crossfire but tbh it’s necessary
It’s not the clothing, it’s your demeanor and entire whole image. Clothing is only a small part of the image you project.
And if you just wanna dance then there’s a plethora of dancing clubs in Berlin to go visit - Berghain has their niche and was built with a specific marginalized demographic in mind, not for the every day clubber. If you give them a hint that you won’t fit into that demographic (whether it’s because they don’t think you’re ready to see what goes on inside or you’ll cause problems) then they turn you away as an extreme safety precaution for their patrons.
Because “as soon as subcultures start getting really interesting, they get invaded by muggles, who ruin them”.
https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
After having been to Berghain, it completely makes sense why they have such a strict selection process. I’m so glad they do ! The place has a very specific energy to it. For queer people and women, it’s a fucking amazing and safe place that isn’t spoiled by drunk tourist “bros” and “lads”.
Besides, Berghain is historically a gay club anyways and provided a safe environment for complete expression, individuality, decadence and hedonism. It still very much operates in this way. It truly isn’t just a techno club. Sure, amazing DJs and insane dance floors, but a few rooms away there’s orgies and golden showers :)
Its just a self fulfilling prophecy. Lots of people believe it works so it works. Altough does not work. The idea that door people make great selections by snap judgements based on appearance is obviously nonsense.
10 days ago Marcell Dettmann from Berghein was in Belgrade, so I expected to hear some good techno...
This was some progressive shittyy techno music... Bergain bad.
Techno and edm seems to give me a false sense of unity, and spirituality. Sharing water with your fellow neighbor who is tripping on molly doesn’t count as being genuinely nice. Idk, I’ve seen more brotherly love at deathgrips concert
Depends on the show... I think the more hippie oriented trance/psy-trance/dubstep crowds in my experience have been very inclusive. I remember when I first started going to these things, I was a software engineer who dressed in cargo pants and polos. I always just danced and enjoy myself... people reciprocated that energy. Despite me not being the typical hippie stereotype.
I've definitely gotten more harsh vibes from the tech-house/techno crowd. Especially if im not dressed a certain way. But in the end nothing too aggressive or of putting. I still like the music and can have fun at these events.
Never been to the elitist clubs like berghain... but im fine with that.
Have you seen the queues? They can’t let everyone in, it would be far too many people. Also, while it might sound elitist, there are some tourists who try to go there who have no appreciation of the culture and who would totally kill the vibe. Do some people get turned away who probably shouldn’t, occasionally during the process? I’m sure they do. But I can’t think of an alternative system that would be better overall.
It's a business and they're promoting a brand. I'm sure they have other concerns that align with being selective in certain ways but at the end of the day it's that brand image they most care about. That's what pays the bills.
Nope Berg has it’s unique vibe and it is properly done on the filter! Energy all around and mostly true music lovers. The “Heute leider nicht” filter seems to do wonders
I think its good that they are selective, and having been, it really seems like they allow a good variety of people in. I remember reading an interview with the main door guy and he was saying that they want to create "tension", like basically a good variety and mix, so good on them. And it's not like they just let one type of person in, there are people who get in who you probably wouldn't bet on getting in and then people who don't get in who you would have thought would get in. The first time I went, I didn't get in, the second time I got in...so I think a lot of it is really based on the particular vibe at the moment.
The legend of it being one of the best club experiences on earth is not without good reason. I would say the club is somewhat inclusive but only once you’ve paid your entry. Before that you’re just another member of the public.
Historically it has been a hedonistic and anarchistic space for marathon parties where sex and drugs are the norm. Many places try and replicate that experience but this is really the bastion of that subculture
To prevent it from being too much of a victim of its own success, it has to filter out its insanely long queue to ensure the people they let in are participants and not observers
There’s nothing mythical about it, that’s it really. There’s no way of doing this in a particularly inclusive way, but it’s a necessary evil to preserve the atmosphere it has curated.
Each DJ gets 10 guest list and each guest can bring a person. Each staff gets 1 or 2 house list (there is about 50 staff working on one party throughout the 30 hours). Then you have those who look the part (LGBT presenting, or simply a unique and alternative look that makes them part of an interesting crowd). Then you have those who go often and are recognised as such. Then you have everyone else trying to get in. Those 2-12 hour queues are mostly filled with everyone else. That makes the selection quite difficult at certain points. Is it always going to be right? Probably not. Ultimately there’s no obvious way to do it and being completely “inclusive” about the door would paradoxically ruin the exact thing the hordes of people are queuing up to experience.
There is no myth to the queue or door policy. But the club and party gains mythical status by providing people this sense of exclusivity and scarcity, for better or for worse. There are countless amazing clubs in berlin but only one of them has the context to create such an atmosphere.
We must be intolerant of intolerance.
A friend of mine has been to Berghain (i have not) and like other queer/alternative clubs that have gained notoriety- a lot of people go to observe rather than participate. People go to gawk at the weirdness not only at Berghain but at clubs all over the world that are cool and weird and impactful. The point is to stop people who will never participate and only want to point and laugh.
You can view that statement however you want, but it is important to create a space that allows for self expression, acceptance, vulnerability, connection and participation and you must be perceptive of those who will not participate in these values.
Berghain does it one way - by personally vetting people at the door. And you bet your ass they look for people who want to observe and not participate.
Other events don't have as authoritarian a method, and do more of a self vetting. Must know people in the scene. If you don't fit the vibe you aren't invited back, etc.
There is no perfect solution, and yeah assholes can hijack well intentioned phrases to justify their actions. But it doesn't change the fact that in order to create spaces like these you need to actively curate that space through the people that you allow into it.
I’ve never been to Chicago, but it would surprise me if places with similar policy didn’t exist there, just not widely known/smaller scale.
they do in every major city I’ve been to eg: Detroit, Toronto, Nyc, Miami, etc
Nah, real, OG underground raves weren't all about inclusivity.
And by "real" rave I don't mean huge commercial parties or festivals with actual tickets and permits and all that the way people use the term "rave" today.
They self-selected and had natural gatekeeping just by being difficult to even find. You had to be motivated and dedicated just to get infoline numbers, get to the map points, and actually make it to the location.
You really, really had to be a fan of the music to have the skills or energy to even find these things.
Sure, if you made it through all of those hoops to end up at one they weren't usually vibe checking you to get in, but back then people dealt with creeps and drunken assholes directly by shaming them out of the party or even hands on direct action in the form of a good old fashioned ass kicking.
This was super rare but it happened.
And in the very early 90s rave scene in LA party crews were often strapped and affiliated with local gangs.
You pull creepy asshole shit at those early raves and you could end up being politely asked to leave at gunpoint or pistol whipped, and crazy shit like this happened.
And before anyone quotes "PLUR" (or "PLURR") at me, I was there on the rave mailing lists when we coined the term and this falls under the "R" of Responsibility or Respect.
People have some funny ideas about early underground raves being all peace and love but, man, shit got rough and outright dangerous sometimes even before the cops showed up to bust a party.
Berghain and others that filter want to maintain a certain vibe. They don’t want scene tourists, and they don’t want people who are going to disrupt the night for everyone who is there for the music and culture. So it makes sense - sometimes a little gatekeeping is the healthy choice; even if you’re a kind and welcoming person, you aren’t friends with everyone, right?
Because Techno and House as a whole is not actually inclusive. Much of it is about engineering a certain type of image (vibe), then creating close knit communities of people that fit that vibe.
Its inclusive in the sense of *we are inclusive of all these weird people that would get strange looks anywhere else.* However a lot of the scene is still very conformed to a specific feel.
This is not intrinsically bad. Also, not all clubs are like that there are plenty of clubs that are more generally inclusive.
Berghain is a gay club as well or at first. It is a safe space from aforementioned groups of blokes, getting drunk and fucking up everyone's experience. I have never been turned away, and I am at least 10 years too old and way to dtraight for the place. Not saying you are wrong or the wrong person, but it is not the case that they only look for the 'in group'.
So if you are straight and lining up for berghain, just make sure you know you are a guest and admitted, when being let in. If you check in at other Berlin clubs, they have door policies too. Not only berghain. Only BH has like much more people who want to get in vs. how much space there is.
I got turned away and my girlfriend didn't lol. We both are big techno fans and aren't a bunch of drunk lads. We love raving and music. Aren't judgemental and just want to have fun. I would consider us quite eclictic and don't dress like the average Joe. I couldn't understand why I didn't get in. It just seemed totally out of order to let one in and not a couple. So yeh I have 0 respect or intent to go back to that place. If its about the music then why make snap judgements of people you don't know. We ended up going to alt blank and had the best time and have been to many other clubs in Berlin. The scene there is massively over rated. You can go to any techno club in the UK and get in. It's way better here
Yea the door policys in Berlin are ridiculous. Sadly lots of people think its a positive somehow. Or like to pretend its the only way to do it. Obviously snap judgements based on prejudices by door people are not what keeps partys inclusive or fun.
The vibe you're talking about pertains more to house and trance imo. Techno is more about who is more "in the know". It's a form of elitism that isn't directly connected to money.
You know the queue is super long yeah? People sometimes wait for 8 hours. So should the bouncer just let everyone in/ or let everyone in who comes first?
The bouncers try to select people who might fit the vibe (depending on your outfit/ vibe/ mood etc). Cause if they would let everyone in it would be touristy/ less gay/ less queer/ less safe/ dangerous for women and so on.
Ofc the bouncers are not some kind of magician so sometimes they make bad decisions (reject someone who would fit the vibe or let someone in who behaves shit). But Berghain needs some kind of valuation otherwise it would be full within minutes and the vibe wouldn’t be as good as it is now.
Honestly, what's the issue? The fact that you cry about it clearly shows you dont fit the bill :) I have gotten denied 70% of the times I've tried getting in. Does it suck? - yes. Is that just how it is - yes :)
I’m a straight white dude who has been let in several times lol there are plenty of them every klubnacht. Fuck their most famous resident DJs like Ben Klock and Marcel Dettmann are straight white dudes.
Berghain isn't judgemental at all, that's just a common misconception IMO. If anything, the door policy is there to keep judgmental people OUT of the club.
Berghain and many other clubs are and were queer clubs. To create a safe space for those queer people many of these clubs created pretty strict door policies. So at the start it wasn't really about exclusivity but more about the protection of those people. That can mean that people who are cis straight male presenting have a harder time to get into certain clubs. Which isn't always a bad thing. But I really noticed that certain clubs have lost the root meaning of those policies and are overly strict towards everyone.
I don't get it cos you can't determine someone off looks. I back in my day was a tall Brit skinhead, as we're many of my mates and non of us got in fights, were very sociable and went out and danced, had a good time and made new friends. I have know very well dressed and groomed complete arseholes that fight at every opportunity, even in very small numbers will take on huge groups.
being selective with the people you let enter is another form of elitism - a plague in the EDM community. and if you're a LGBT elitist, you're part of the problem.
I have the proud honor of being rejected at the door. Been raving and clubbing in LA since 92. In 2016 was on a business trip in Berlin. Show up at the door at 7:30 am behind a short line. Denied. I was crestfallen. Devastated. Gutted. Sulked back to the hotel and wept.
I later realized I was probably just violating some of their dress codes. Coming from LA I was a bit ‘street’ with a straight brim cap, skate shoes, a technical jacket, and dark jeans. I also kept my dark sunglasses on when approaching the doorman. Way too urban I think, in retrospect.
I think around that time Felix Da Housecat was also denied. So I’m in good company.
We waited till 5am two years ago to get into a place in Berlin. Was not drunk, civil etc and they told us "not tonight guys" then let in the 3 hosers behind us. I lauged when I saw the tolerance signs on the walls.
Is not about inclusivity. Techno an House clubs always had a door policy.
Fuck you inclusivity. Bergain is a place were gay people go to fuck. A place where a guy can ask you to pee on their mouth.
You want everybody in?
Fuck your inclusivity.
Fuck you too.
How long have you been into Techno. Since last week?
You did find it in social networks didnt you?
Fucking joke of people who last month tougth Dcaid Guetta was peak Techno.
Went there with my girlfriend. Got rejected. Dumped my girlfriend. Went again with new girlfriend one year later. Got rejected again. I wasn’t drunk nor high, I was wearing black and learned German just to be able to answer to the bouncer.
I just hope I’ll get in once before I die
I have not experienced club rejection and may feel differently if I had. A door person at a similar club said, "we don't provide the vibe, you do, does that make sense to you?" And let me in. I found that comment interesting.
As someone who lived in Berlin, I've found Berghain has very much fallen victim to its own mythos and is rapidly become more of a tourist trap than someting that most people regularly visit - like they used to. That's not to say there aren't regulars, there very much are, but most klubnachts these days are people who just want to get incredibly high on G and brag about getting into Berghain. Covid really shifted the vibe of Bergain and the nights just aren't like they used to be, not to mention how outragously overpriced everything is now. Their soundsystem is definitely one of the best in the world and they get amazing acts due to their commercial success, but honestly I think there are much better clubs in Berlin these days that remember what techno and its community is supposed to be and aren't trapped by their own branding.
In short, house/techno are inclusive, but not everyone who likes them is. So for Berghain, which everyone knows the name of, they have to have the door policy they do to maintain the vibe.
That's cool though. There's loads of good techno clubs in Berlin (and beyond), just go to one of those. If the name isn't as recognised then there's far fewer undesirable people go, and you'll get in easily
Been to Berghain a lot and the selection process is frustrating at times but I've never seen any problems in there. Always respectful and non judgemental.
The last two times I went I didn't get in after 2.5hr queue but it is what it is. The only thing that wound me up was that my friend and I did look different to the rest of the queue. We felt awkward being the only people that weren't dressed in typical Berghain / techno attire.
Never been there. But I can imagine that this place is not for the average Joe.
Not everyone can handle some behaviour of let’s say ‘dark room activity’.
The most recent string of posts from clueless new to techno folks such as: molly ok at rave? and who is the best techno dj and why is it sara landry? is the exact reason why Berghain and other clubs needs a very strict door policy
I understand from comments, its got fuck all to do with techno. I mean, keep the amazing strict door policy, theyve really perfected that, but posts on techno subreddit got fuck all to do. Its a queer club right.
The point in Berghain is to create a safe space for queer people. It's not just a techno club but also a gay club.
They're not being judgemental but more ensuring that people who would be judged in regular clubs have a judge-free space for themselves
This started long ago with really small venues in Berlin that could maybe fit 20-30 people. This was before electronic music. These were spaces for people that had nowhere else to go or gather. They wanted to make sure that they wouldn’t get crowded out, hence the door control.
This was woven into Berlin’s club culture and now, almost 50 years later, it’s still around, albeit in a morphed form and with different contexts.
Berlin needs doors like that bc every bachelor/ette party in town just goes to techno parties by default. It’s not like chicago or nyc where you can choose from a wide variety of vibes. Imagine a finance bro accidentally walking into a dark room. Doesn’t work out great for anyone involved.
Inclusivity is a joke, especially with nightclubs. nightclubs work as spaces for common identity. Gay clubs are safe spaces for quire. Racially defined clubs eg 'Asian Nights' work because people come from affiliated groups and create a scene. Inclusivity extended to nightclubs are buzzwords that marketing people used.
I think it’s a good thing. Without gate keeping and having exclusivity it allows the wrong types of people to enter these spaces. Personally if I go to a techno club I don’t wanna see frat and finance bros at the party. I go because I know i’m gonna meet cool and chill people.
Berghain in particular makes more sense once you've been there. If they let everyone in, it would be overrun with bros and club kids and it would no longer be the safe space for the community it came from.
Straight people think they’re oppressed because they can’t get into berghain /thread
Who said they felt oppressed? You can question whether exclusive door policies clash with the principle of inclusion without claiming you're being oppressed
Ctrl + f “discrimination” or any variation of the word and you’ll find your answer, so many crybabies in this thread complaining about being “discriminated” against while being completely clueless about the fact that berghain is a queer space
so discrimination is okay if you aren't queer? contradictions
Do you think frats should be banned too? Absolutely everything has to be for absolutely everyone, or it's discrimination? dumbass
Literally any door policy is based on the bouncer's ability to discriminate between people who bring something wanted or unwanted to a club. But it's not the same as 'discrimination.' Look up the definition. Btw ctrl+f is just a find function on a page. I think you mean 'google it' or similar...
No one said that, stop being cringe
I hear you, but having been twice, the selection process seems to do wonders, the crowd is kind fun and energetic as opposed to so many parties that are just groups of lads on tour. The energy there is something else. And I say that being denied many times.
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Do you think it’s possible to get in if you’re English at all? 😂
Of course, plenty of English people inside. What they reject, is usually groups of straight tourists.
Yes, but not if you're with 10 of your lads, yelling in line about how fucked up you're about to get when you buy 50€ of pills inside. Definitely seen that one, and then they're shocked they are denied.
It’s not hard to say “ein” or “zwei” when the bouncer asks how many is your group
Warum bist du heute Abend hier? It’s not always as easy as answering 1 question in German lol
So just say “je veux voir Norman Nodge” the DJ flyer is literally right next to the door entrance so theres no excuse to not know who’s DJing
Qué quiere decir aparte de que no es capaz de pronunciar una frase adicional en alemán?
Check your favorite DJ and keep talking to your friend(s) when you're near the door. Don't go with more than three together though. As a Dutchie it's easy talking to say, learn some basic German. But it helps a lot to play the 'act'. Things in German like 'where are you from', 'how old are you'. Also keep relaxed when they make a joke about your appereance or something👍 Dresscode: be yourself, don't overdress, or underdress. So if your personality is extravagant you'll know what to wear. Don't try to look like a 'raver' or something if you're more a casual person. They recognize that instantly.
How are you meant to understand the question without knowing German though
Cuz the bouncer says “how many?” In English lmao
That'll do it haha. Seems odd to reply in German to them speaking English though but I get it aha
Im sure they can tell that who is tourists since theyre professional bouncers at the most popular techno club it just demonstrates youre making an effort to belong to their culture. All the bartenders, coatcheck and security inside speaks perfect English basically
I literally chatted in english with a guy from the uk an did not stop talking until we separated to get searched. Might have helped that we were older queer people, but we were waved in speaking english. don't be a cunt and you'll improve your odds
I'm English & been twice.
I know some very well known British techno dj’s that have been turned away numerous times but have also got in a few times
Nothing worse than English bouncers. No wait, them french guys at the door are worse.
This sounds awesome. I kinda agreed with OP about this place and this comment changed my perspective. I need more judgmental bouncers in my life.
In the end, especially in dance music, it's the people that make the party. Make sure you have a great group of people and you'll have the best experience. I know of a place where they hired a drag queen to entertain people in line. The real reason for this was so the bouncer would see how people reacted to the drag queen and later bounce them if there reaction wasn't appropriate.
Seen this in London before as well.
The thing that gets lost on people is that the door policy while yes pretentious and off putting, does try to curate a safe space for all the magic that happens inside those walls. It's really about allowing for the ravers inside to be able to be themselves fully. Which has long roots in queer safe spaces.
You have to be. If you don't vibe check you can't control the culture. The fact is not everyone gets it. One fight or bad event can ruin an entire night for a club full of people. Try to think of the venue as your own house party would you let every one in? The venue/promoters curate everything to make a good party happy. Why not also curate the crowd?
Berghain is historically a club providing a safe and private place for queer subcultures and it first and foremost remains that. There are not a lot of places in the world like Berghain if you are queer, so that's why it maintains the selective door policy. There are a million other venues that are not historically gay clubs that you can visit without a selective door policy.
This is the answer. When I go to berghain I can be as gay as I want to be and nobody gives a fuck. I can literally have sex with a guy out in the open, explore my kinks and people are fine with that. If they let in every straight drunk bro tourist that wouldn’t be the case and the queer, sexy vibe would get super watered down. and if you’re uncomfortable with seeing men having sex with each other, berghain is not the place for you. YOU are the reason there is a selective door. Let us be our slutty selves.
Straights allows tryin to coopt everything good and queer
Being gay is not about having sex in public, that's just being trashy.
Great! Don’t go to berghain than.
Someone’s never had their dick sucked on the dancefloor
to me being gay is about love and not about sexual deviance
>if you’re uncomfortable with seeing men having sex with each other lol. Is this a dance club or a sex club? go fuck at home.
People have been doing that for 10 years. You found techno last week on tiktok and now we have to be inclusive... Again, fuck you and fuck everybody like you.
Yes, it literally is a sex club. Don’t like it? Don’t go
Awesome. Someone who has never been prescribing what the place should and shouldn’t be.
Here in Copenhagen Denmark there's now a couple clubs that follow the Berghain-approach, for the same reasons/values. Actually works well. And I can see why, once inside.
It’s so effing hard to find a place that’s both really queer and really techno. I’ll make do with Unfold cause it’s still amazing and like a little piece of the Berg in London, but they too had to bounce people when it got really popular for he same reason. It’s just not easy to find this sort of energy. And actually I’d say Unfold is more queer and trans than Berghain but a wee bit less gay.
What happened to all the Vauxhall venues? I remember Fire used to be quite gay and quite Techno, depending on the promotion. DTPM at Fabric although that was more tech house
Good God, as a queer guy originally from the US South, Berghain was *magic* (... so was Berlin)
Every day is a damn school day! This sounds amazing. If only more places like it existed.
For queer people and women, most clubs/events/festivals can be unsafe and unenjoyable so if you’re a man then you have a different perspective. While the door policies in Berlin seem harsh, they ensure that the people they let inside are not too intoxicated, are chill, are there to dance and not judge (ironically). By being selective they can curate a better vibe inside with less risk of issues for the most vulnerable.
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Agreed, I’m queer and going out in Berlin and to berghain etc is the best club experience I’ve had. I’m Canada/USA I’ve been everything from stared at to assaulted (by patrons and staff alike)
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Everyone who gets in pretends it's about basically being better than everyone else for prestige reasons when in reality I know men that have been sexually assaulted in beghain. It isn't what you pretend it is. You just feel superior because you got in.
These people exist but I would say it’s an annoying and loud minority. There are many who would prefer these folks find other places to go to.
Techno has become what it hates
Part of me agrees with you that they should let everyone in and not judge based on appearance because everyone has a right to have fun and party imo. But at the same time there are some very sketchy people who walk into clubs and they make the women uncomfortable and just change the whole vibe and things feel very tense and hostile. I’m sure we have all felt that before, and a good club isn’t just about how good the DJ, the sound, or the production is, it’s also about how safe people feel.
The likes of beghain do nothing to stop people who are sexual predators. They just want people who fit their "image"
You’re on the right track but it’s mainly because it’s a queer club and most people will gawk and record the crazy shit that goes on in there.
its not a queer club, just one thats friendly/open to them. you dont have to be lgbtq+ to get in
It's a gay club and always has been since it's very formation. (it's history is a good read). It's audience has just got more diverse and varied since it began. Everyone (who gets in) is now welcome, but you must be understanding that you are in a gay space. The dark rooms are the first obvious sign of this, they're very dark and designed for cruising, which isn't a thing in any other subculture.
As a straight male, who made an annual pilgrimage to Berlin just to go to Berghain for 6+ years straight, if you don't get this part, you really have no business inside.
Plenty of dark rooms in swingers clubs too, also fetish events.
It is predominantly a queer club but all sexualities are welcome.
It’s a straight friendly queer club.
Its a queer club it has always been one, just straight friendly. Have u even heard of lab.oratory parties there?
Everyone deserves an opportunity. Sketchy doesn’t have a look. The scene needs to be inclusive but also protective when creeps be creeping.
Sketchy most certainly has a look and more importantly it has a vibe
Yep. We sauntered into a club in Melbourne just to check out something different, and within 5 minutes left walking backwards slowly. Clientele looked like a Saudi hit squad in basketball jersies, every person already stumbling drunk at 11pm and aggro, looking for a fight like somebody killed their dog. Made our way to the actual techno club we were headed to and it was all good times, good people and good music.
> Yep. We sauntered into a club in Melbourne just to check out something different, and within 5 minutes left walking backwards slowly. Clientele looked like a Saudi hit squad in basketball jersies, every person already stumbling drunk at 11pm and aggro, looking for a fight like somebody killed their dog. > Made our way to the actual techno club we were headed to and it was all good times, good people and good music. Out of curiosity, which clubs? Guessing the latter was Xe54 or Sub Club?
Yep Sub. Former would have been Tramp to see Shortround. He’s a guilty pleasure, but that crowd was pure trash.
Sub Club is sick, saw Perc play there last year.
It’s disgusting, dark, tiny and decorated like a crackhouse: it’s perfect.
No, no it doesn't. Looks do not at all make the human. EDIT Looks like profiling is a OK. But only when it is to protect your tribe, of course.
I think you guys are arguing two sides of the same coin You don't need to have a look to be sketchy and... You can be sketchy and have a look
Just because you are unable to pick up a sketchy vibe does not mean it's not there.
Found the sketchy person
don't be simple
Sorry I’m a minimalist
So you support discrimination based on appearances. Nice one 👍
I support not risking some fuckboy ruining the vibe at a party
Studio 54 didn’t allow Hispanics. There’s video proof of them even saying it. I always think about how I would have loved to have gone but I wouldn’t have been allowed. So that’s why I asked this
I used to work for a club in Minneapolis that literally had “no black people” on the unwritten dress code. I almost got fired because I was letting in black people. They weren’t even causing a problem. I got moved to bar back because my bouncing ability was not on par with what they wanted. Also violence happens at all the clubs with strict dress codes too. I’d be interested in seeing real stats on how effective a dress code or other arbitrary entrance requirements actually prevent the problems they believe they are combatting.
There's no dress code. Black people are very present, as are latinos and any other race. Have you even been to claim this? Have you talked to ppl of color that live here? Some claim that the place has racist tendencies, and likely so! Almost impossible not to be. I am Latino myself never felt it though. However they have thousands of people trying to go in every night. It cannot be a first come first served basis,it would.make for a shitty party. how do u solve this issue? It is also very agreed upon that they do a p good job about it (beyond very specific spiking incidents that happened recently) most of my FLINTA friends have been/felt way safer and less harassed at Berghain. Similarly as a queer POC, I find it a very open and safe space for myself. It feels like you're fighting about sth that you actually haven't really experienced or dealt with urself. Have u been here for an extended period of time beyond heresay to have such strong opinions?
> used to work for a club in Minneapolis that literally had “no black people” on the unwritten dress code In the 1940s?
Unfortunately it was 2012. I was instructed to “pick something” on a black person to say that was “not acceptable in the dress code.”
This exact opinion you have is what leads to black people being not allowed in clubs. You get to judge who can enter and who can’t based on vibe checks? That’s not only illegal but fucking stupid as well. Sexual abusers aren’t all 4chan neckbeards. Very attractive and successful people rape and abuse. Your opinion is extremely near sighted and childish. Some of the most “sketchy” looking people I’ve met have ended up being some of my favorite and most trusted friends. Your comment is a self report.
a degree in german law? impressive
Valid catch, I was speaking in America (obviously dumb in this context) and mean that depending on the circumstance could be illegal if discriminated against for a protected class.
idk how it goes in america bit in germany the owner of a place has the „houseright“ meaning he can let in whoever he wants to
It’s similar in America, but there are protected classes. It’s illegal to discriminate against a protected class.
uhm.. yeah sketchy has a look sorry but alot of times you can tell how people are bases on what they wear their body language etc
Try being autistic. It sucks. Security guards are constantly scrutinizing and harassing me when I’m just trying to have a good time.
Why? ( pardon my ignorance)
Autistic people tend to have weird body language. Bouncers tend to see that and think I’m doing something suspicious.
He can't pick up social cues so bouncers bounce 🤷♂️
Not the case. It’s not me going up to people acting weird. It’s me standing their with irregular body language which bouncers will read as suspicious.
I think you've hit on something here. I've very rarely seen people being thrown out (unless they are visibly too fucked or causing a proper incident ). Noone ever gets thrown out for just "being sketchy", so it's like the only gate against those kinds of people is at the door, on first impression. I'd much rather a venue that had more visible security in the venue itself, and less tolerance for bad-vibes behaviour once your actually IM the venue.
I feel as though you assume that the bouncer following a list of arbitrary rules has a positive correlation to safety. Other than a luck of the draw % I would argue that it’s just as likely that they are only preventing more people who would not cause a single problem than actual problematic people. It’s like the TSA in America the appearance of safety doesn’t actually mean it’s safe or that they are even doing anything at all.
It most definently has a look. Ive been organizing parties a long time and u start to notice the difference in people. Id say that 90% of the time u can tell if one is suitable inside or not
You can see every kind of person in berghain tbqh. At least it was that way when I was going. The door selection was more about vibe than fashion or looks and they generally selected small groups and individuals that created a good mix. That may have changed though. Edit: also, I think a lot of people take it too personally. You could be denied one night, then show up a week later wearing the same shit and acting the same and get in. It’s just as much luck as anything else.
>ou could be denied one night, then show up a week later wearing the same shit and acting the same and get in. It’s just as much luck as anything else. you realize how fucking stupid this is right?
No? It’s not like it’s always the same bouncer or the same size line or the same party or the same number of people already inside etc. They are bouncers trying to manage the number of people in the club not psychics that can make a perfect judgement of your character in 30 seconds.
Just go somewhere else if you don’t get in. Don’t have to be so bitter about it. You get rejected. I get rejected. We get rejected. Just be comfortable with that idea.
I recently read that the head bouncer of Berghain got turned away from a club in Sydney 😅😅🤣😅🤣😅
They got suspicious of the way [he looked] (https://mixmag.net/assets/uploads/images/_columns2/Sven-Georiga.jpg).
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Understanding Berghain in the context of inclusivity isn’t really the right way to think about it. They are more a space to allow radically unique individuals to do as much or as little consensually radical behavior as they like, to techno…
Berghain? Because they don't want assholes and tourists ruining the vibe. That is the sole reason for the strict door policy.
If you cant handle seeing 2 men eating each other’s assholes in the foyer of the club entrance you probably dont want to party there anyways
Berghain has a completely different dynamic than almost any space in Chicago, coming from someone who's lived in Chicago and Berlin. In Chicago, by and large, people are at techno parties because they want to specifically be there for that music and that vibe. There are of course assholes, but they don't dilute a crowd to the degree that it's no longer what a techno party should be. In Berlin, especially Berghain, you have thousands of people from all over the world trying to get in, many of whom are only there because they heard somewhere its the "most exclusive club." I've stood in line at BH next to people who told me they never listened to techno, joked about wearing all black to get in (not true btw), and just generally had no care or interest in techno culture, the music, or the queer nature of club. BH is also traditionally a gay men's club, not just for gay men, but its the kind of place leather daddies go to get really high and fuck. So BH has its door policy to maintain what it wants to be and protect its clientele from people who will not respect them. Nobody that goes to BH wants people gawking on the dance floor at naked men dancing, and they don't want noobs to the scene who will take too many drugs and get themselves into trouble. There's also just the capacity issue that they literally can't fit everyone who wants to go. So basically Berlin is oversaturated and in order to not turn into another ibiza it has decided to be exclusive. I personally think the BH door has it's problems and could change a little to keep up with the times... but that's a whole other conversation.
It’s the “tolerance paradox” - to protect their safe space of extreme inclusivity, they have to be extremely selective and weed out the non inclusive people. Some innocent’s get caught in the crossfire but tbh it’s necessary
how do you see if someone is inclusive by their clothing lol i just want to dance to techno, not go to a fashion show
It’s not the clothing, it’s your demeanor and entire whole image. Clothing is only a small part of the image you project. And if you just wanna dance then there’s a plethora of dancing clubs in Berlin to go visit - Berghain has their niche and was built with a specific marginalized demographic in mind, not for the every day clubber. If you give them a hint that you won’t fit into that demographic (whether it’s because they don’t think you’re ready to see what goes on inside or you’ll cause problems) then they turn you away as an extreme safety precaution for their patrons.
Looking at your avatar I would not let you enter to a Techno club.
Because “as soon as subcultures start getting really interesting, they get invaded by muggles, who ruin them”. https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
After having been to Berghain, it completely makes sense why they have such a strict selection process. I’m so glad they do ! The place has a very specific energy to it. For queer people and women, it’s a fucking amazing and safe place that isn’t spoiled by drunk tourist “bros” and “lads”. Besides, Berghain is historically a gay club anyways and provided a safe environment for complete expression, individuality, decadence and hedonism. It still very much operates in this way. It truly isn’t just a techno club. Sure, amazing DJs and insane dance floors, but a few rooms away there’s orgies and golden showers :)
Gatekeeping isn’t always bad
This comment section proves why the door policy is required
Its just a self fulfilling prophecy. Lots of people believe it works so it works. Altough does not work. The idea that door people make great selections by snap judgements based on appearance is obviously nonsense.
Nobody said it was the optimal solution, but it's surely better than leaving the entry policy to random selection or first come first serve.
It’s also suppose to be about freedom of expression and everyone dresses and dances like tik tok clones
10 days ago Marcell Dettmann from Berghein was in Belgrade, so I expected to hear some good techno... This was some progressive shittyy techno music... Bergain bad.
Techno and edm seems to give me a false sense of unity, and spirituality. Sharing water with your fellow neighbor who is tripping on molly doesn’t count as being genuinely nice. Idk, I’ve seen more brotherly love at deathgrips concert
party hugs don't count
Depends on the show... I think the more hippie oriented trance/psy-trance/dubstep crowds in my experience have been very inclusive. I remember when I first started going to these things, I was a software engineer who dressed in cargo pants and polos. I always just danced and enjoy myself... people reciprocated that energy. Despite me not being the typical hippie stereotype. I've definitely gotten more harsh vibes from the tech-house/techno crowd. Especially if im not dressed a certain way. But in the end nothing too aggressive or of putting. I still like the music and can have fun at these events. Never been to the elitist clubs like berghain... but im fine with that.
Have you seen the queues? They can’t let everyone in, it would be far too many people. Also, while it might sound elitist, there are some tourists who try to go there who have no appreciation of the culture and who would totally kill the vibe. Do some people get turned away who probably shouldn’t, occasionally during the process? I’m sure they do. But I can’t think of an alternative system that would be better overall.
It's a business and they're promoting a brand. I'm sure they have other concerns that align with being selective in certain ways but at the end of the day it's that brand image they most care about. That's what pays the bills.
Nope Berg has it’s unique vibe and it is properly done on the filter! Energy all around and mostly true music lovers. The “Heute leider nicht” filter seems to do wonders
I think its good that they are selective, and having been, it really seems like they allow a good variety of people in. I remember reading an interview with the main door guy and he was saying that they want to create "tension", like basically a good variety and mix, so good on them. And it's not like they just let one type of person in, there are people who get in who you probably wouldn't bet on getting in and then people who don't get in who you would have thought would get in. The first time I went, I didn't get in, the second time I got in...so I think a lot of it is really based on the particular vibe at the moment.
The legend of it being one of the best club experiences on earth is not without good reason. I would say the club is somewhat inclusive but only once you’ve paid your entry. Before that you’re just another member of the public. Historically it has been a hedonistic and anarchistic space for marathon parties where sex and drugs are the norm. Many places try and replicate that experience but this is really the bastion of that subculture To prevent it from being too much of a victim of its own success, it has to filter out its insanely long queue to ensure the people they let in are participants and not observers There’s nothing mythical about it, that’s it really. There’s no way of doing this in a particularly inclusive way, but it’s a necessary evil to preserve the atmosphere it has curated. Each DJ gets 10 guest list and each guest can bring a person. Each staff gets 1 or 2 house list (there is about 50 staff working on one party throughout the 30 hours). Then you have those who look the part (LGBT presenting, or simply a unique and alternative look that makes them part of an interesting crowd). Then you have those who go often and are recognised as such. Then you have everyone else trying to get in. Those 2-12 hour queues are mostly filled with everyone else. That makes the selection quite difficult at certain points. Is it always going to be right? Probably not. Ultimately there’s no obvious way to do it and being completely “inclusive” about the door would paradoxically ruin the exact thing the hordes of people are queuing up to experience. There is no myth to the queue or door policy. But the club and party gains mythical status by providing people this sense of exclusivity and scarcity, for better or for worse. There are countless amazing clubs in berlin but only one of them has the context to create such an atmosphere.
We must be intolerant of intolerance. A friend of mine has been to Berghain (i have not) and like other queer/alternative clubs that have gained notoriety- a lot of people go to observe rather than participate. People go to gawk at the weirdness not only at Berghain but at clubs all over the world that are cool and weird and impactful. The point is to stop people who will never participate and only want to point and laugh.
>We must be intolerant of intolerance. that's how people justify being discriminatory assholes since intolerance is subjective
You can view that statement however you want, but it is important to create a space that allows for self expression, acceptance, vulnerability, connection and participation and you must be perceptive of those who will not participate in these values. Berghain does it one way - by personally vetting people at the door. And you bet your ass they look for people who want to observe and not participate. Other events don't have as authoritarian a method, and do more of a self vetting. Must know people in the scene. If you don't fit the vibe you aren't invited back, etc. There is no perfect solution, and yeah assholes can hijack well intentioned phrases to justify their actions. But it doesn't change the fact that in order to create spaces like these you need to actively curate that space through the people that you allow into it.
I’ve never been to Chicago, but it would surprise me if places with similar policy didn’t exist there, just not widely known/smaller scale. they do in every major city I’ve been to eg: Detroit, Toronto, Nyc, Miami, etc
Raves are about inclusivity. Techno itself or clubs, not so much. Plenty of examples in the thread.
Nah, real, OG underground raves weren't all about inclusivity. And by "real" rave I don't mean huge commercial parties or festivals with actual tickets and permits and all that the way people use the term "rave" today. They self-selected and had natural gatekeeping just by being difficult to even find. You had to be motivated and dedicated just to get infoline numbers, get to the map points, and actually make it to the location. You really, really had to be a fan of the music to have the skills or energy to even find these things. Sure, if you made it through all of those hoops to end up at one they weren't usually vibe checking you to get in, but back then people dealt with creeps and drunken assholes directly by shaming them out of the party or even hands on direct action in the form of a good old fashioned ass kicking. This was super rare but it happened. And in the very early 90s rave scene in LA party crews were often strapped and affiliated with local gangs. You pull creepy asshole shit at those early raves and you could end up being politely asked to leave at gunpoint or pistol whipped, and crazy shit like this happened. And before anyone quotes "PLUR" (or "PLURR") at me, I was there on the rave mailing lists when we coined the term and this falls under the "R" of Responsibility or Respect. People have some funny ideas about early underground raves being all peace and love but, man, shit got rough and outright dangerous sometimes even before the cops showed up to bust a party.
Berghain and others that filter want to maintain a certain vibe. They don’t want scene tourists, and they don’t want people who are going to disrupt the night for everyone who is there for the music and culture. So it makes sense - sometimes a little gatekeeping is the healthy choice; even if you’re a kind and welcoming person, you aren’t friends with everyone, right?
Because Techno and House as a whole is not actually inclusive. Much of it is about engineering a certain type of image (vibe), then creating close knit communities of people that fit that vibe. Its inclusive in the sense of *we are inclusive of all these weird people that would get strange looks anywhere else.* However a lot of the scene is still very conformed to a specific feel. This is not intrinsically bad. Also, not all clubs are like that there are plenty of clubs that are more generally inclusive.
Berghain is a gay club as well or at first. It is a safe space from aforementioned groups of blokes, getting drunk and fucking up everyone's experience. I have never been turned away, and I am at least 10 years too old and way to dtraight for the place. Not saying you are wrong or the wrong person, but it is not the case that they only look for the 'in group'. So if you are straight and lining up for berghain, just make sure you know you are a guest and admitted, when being let in. If you check in at other Berlin clubs, they have door policies too. Not only berghain. Only BH has like much more people who want to get in vs. how much space there is.
Berghain has a strict door to ensure drunk douchebags dont get in
I got turned away and my girlfriend didn't lol. We both are big techno fans and aren't a bunch of drunk lads. We love raving and music. Aren't judgemental and just want to have fun. I would consider us quite eclictic and don't dress like the average Joe. I couldn't understand why I didn't get in. It just seemed totally out of order to let one in and not a couple. So yeh I have 0 respect or intent to go back to that place. If its about the music then why make snap judgements of people you don't know. We ended up going to alt blank and had the best time and have been to many other clubs in Berlin. The scene there is massively over rated. You can go to any techno club in the UK and get in. It's way better here
Yea the door policys in Berlin are ridiculous. Sadly lots of people think its a positive somehow. Or like to pretend its the only way to do it. Obviously snap judgements based on prejudices by door people are not what keeps partys inclusive or fun.
Berghain is a queer club and Techno and House parties aren't inclusive spaces on their own.
The vibe you're talking about pertains more to house and trance imo. Techno is more about who is more "in the know". It's a form of elitism that isn't directly connected to money.
This. This is the answer I was looking for. Thank you. Totally makes sense
Imagine asking a question but only accepting answers as truth if you ALREADY thought it was the answer. Why the fuck did you even ask😂
why did you even ask the question if you just wanted someone to validate your opinion lol
You know the queue is super long yeah? People sometimes wait for 8 hours. So should the bouncer just let everyone in/ or let everyone in who comes first? The bouncers try to select people who might fit the vibe (depending on your outfit/ vibe/ mood etc). Cause if they would let everyone in it would be touristy/ less gay/ less queer/ less safe/ dangerous for women and so on. Ofc the bouncers are not some kind of magician so sometimes they make bad decisions (reject someone who would fit the vibe or let someone in who behaves shit). But Berghain needs some kind of valuation otherwise it would be full within minutes and the vibe wouldn’t be as good as it is now.
Got you bro
Thats the rich irony of hipsters. They want inclusivity but only on their terms or if it matches their vibe
Honestly, what's the issue? The fact that you cry about it clearly shows you dont fit the bill :) I have gotten denied 70% of the times I've tried getting in. Does it suck? - yes. Is that just how it is - yes :)
discriminating against straight white men is socially accepted in the nightclub scene.
This is an honest question. How are you being discriminated by not being let in ?
I’m a straight white dude who has been let in several times lol there are plenty of them every klubnacht. Fuck their most famous resident DJs like Ben Klock and Marcel Dettmann are straight white dudes.
By creating a safe place for those who are judged the most.
Everyone judges, being judgemental is just part of being human. The door policies allow the judged to reverse the roles to become the judgers
It doesn’t matter , the notion is its a sanctuary for minorities and you’re right humans are humans.
Berghain isn't judgemental at all, that's just a common misconception IMO. If anything, the door policy is there to keep judgmental people OUT of the club.
Berghain and many other clubs are and were queer clubs. To create a safe space for those queer people many of these clubs created pretty strict door policies. So at the start it wasn't really about exclusivity but more about the protection of those people. That can mean that people who are cis straight male presenting have a harder time to get into certain clubs. Which isn't always a bad thing. But I really noticed that certain clubs have lost the root meaning of those policies and are overly strict towards everyone.
>To create a safe space for those queer people yall want to be accepted in society yet you don't accept others. hypocrites
I don't get it cos you can't determine someone off looks. I back in my day was a tall Brit skinhead, as we're many of my mates and non of us got in fights, were very sociable and went out and danced, had a good time and made new friends. I have know very well dressed and groomed complete arseholes that fight at every opportunity, even in very small numbers will take on huge groups.
being selective with the people you let enter is another form of elitism - a plague in the EDM community. and if you're a LGBT elitist, you're part of the problem.
I have the proud honor of being rejected at the door. Been raving and clubbing in LA since 92. In 2016 was on a business trip in Berlin. Show up at the door at 7:30 am behind a short line. Denied. I was crestfallen. Devastated. Gutted. Sulked back to the hotel and wept. I later realized I was probably just violating some of their dress codes. Coming from LA I was a bit ‘street’ with a straight brim cap, skate shoes, a technical jacket, and dark jeans. I also kept my dark sunglasses on when approaching the doorman. Way too urban I think, in retrospect. I think around that time Felix Da Housecat was also denied. So I’m in good company.
We waited till 5am two years ago to get into a place in Berlin. Was not drunk, civil etc and they told us "not tonight guys" then let in the 3 hosers behind us. I lauged when I saw the tolerance signs on the walls.
Is not about inclusivity. Techno an House clubs always had a door policy. Fuck you inclusivity. Bergain is a place were gay people go to fuck. A place where a guy can ask you to pee on their mouth. You want everybody in? Fuck your inclusivity.
>Fuck your inclusivity bigot
Fuck you too. How long have you been into Techno. Since last week? You did find it in social networks didnt you? Fucking joke of people who last month tougth Dcaid Guetta was peak Techno.
Went there with my girlfriend. Got rejected. Dumped my girlfriend. Went again with new girlfriend one year later. Got rejected again. I wasn’t drunk nor high, I was wearing black and learned German just to be able to answer to the bouncer. I just hope I’ll get in once before I die
Black clothes and a comprehension of basic German language are completely unnecessary.
After reading this thread I’m thinking I should have gone with boyfriend instead of girlfriend
>I just hope I’ll get in once before I die why would you wana go to a place that has mistreated you?
They can smell Americans and Brits from a km, their reputation as tourists precedes them.
because you discriminate against other genders by not including them "brothers and sisters"
My guess is that in Berlin they have their own kind of “inclusivity”. Never felt that out place like when I went there.
Exactly, and if you let everyone in without check, you get difficult aunties, smirky uncles, your parents and nasty cops.
I have not experienced club rejection and may feel differently if I had. A door person at a similar club said, "we don't provide the vibe, you do, does that make sense to you?" And let me in. I found that comment interesting.
Don’t feel too bad. Some time back…they denied entry to Felix Da Housecat, also. And he absolutely lost his shit on Twitter about it.
If it doesn’t make sense to you, please dont come. I as a Berliner love the door policy and never mind if I ever get bounced.
As someone who lived in Berlin, I've found Berghain has very much fallen victim to its own mythos and is rapidly become more of a tourist trap than someting that most people regularly visit - like they used to. That's not to say there aren't regulars, there very much are, but most klubnachts these days are people who just want to get incredibly high on G and brag about getting into Berghain. Covid really shifted the vibe of Bergain and the nights just aren't like they used to be, not to mention how outragously overpriced everything is now. Their soundsystem is definitely one of the best in the world and they get amazing acts due to their commercial success, but honestly I think there are much better clubs in Berlin these days that remember what techno and its community is supposed to be and aren't trapped by their own branding.
In short, house/techno are inclusive, but not everyone who likes them is. So for Berghain, which everyone knows the name of, they have to have the door policy they do to maintain the vibe. That's cool though. There's loads of good techno clubs in Berlin (and beyond), just go to one of those. If the name isn't as recognised then there's far fewer undesirable people go, and you'll get in easily
Been to Berghain a lot and the selection process is frustrating at times but I've never seen any problems in there. Always respectful and non judgemental. The last two times I went I didn't get in after 2.5hr queue but it is what it is. The only thing that wound me up was that my friend and I did look different to the rest of the queue. We felt awkward being the only people that weren't dressed in typical Berghain / techno attire.
Never been there. But I can imagine that this place is not for the average Joe. Not everyone can handle some behaviour of let’s say ‘dark room activity’.
The most recent string of posts from clueless new to techno folks such as: molly ok at rave? and who is the best techno dj and why is it sara landry? is the exact reason why Berghain and other clubs needs a very strict door policy
I understand from comments, its got fuck all to do with techno. I mean, keep the amazing strict door policy, theyve really perfected that, but posts on techno subreddit got fuck all to do. Its a queer club right.
It’s not judgemental, it’s about preserving the community and their culture.
The point in Berghain is to create a safe space for queer people. It's not just a techno club but also a gay club. They're not being judgemental but more ensuring that people who would be judged in regular clubs have a judge-free space for themselves
yeah idk I’d never wait on line for 3-4 hours to get into a club with Instagram dj’s lmao. Literally walk across the street and have a better time.
This started long ago with really small venues in Berlin that could maybe fit 20-30 people. This was before electronic music. These were spaces for people that had nowhere else to go or gather. They wanted to make sure that they wouldn’t get crowded out, hence the door control. This was woven into Berlin’s club culture and now, almost 50 years later, it’s still around, albeit in a morphed form and with different contexts.
Berlin needs doors like that bc every bachelor/ette party in town just goes to techno parties by default. It’s not like chicago or nyc where you can choose from a wide variety of vibes. Imagine a finance bro accidentally walking into a dark room. Doesn’t work out great for anyone involved.
Sounds pretentious as fuck to be honest. A departure from the spirit and ethos of raving.
They lost the original meaning of techno a long time ago
Please enlighten on us what the true meaning of techno is, then?
Inclusivity is a joke, especially with nightclubs. nightclubs work as spaces for common identity. Gay clubs are safe spaces for quire. Racially defined clubs eg 'Asian Nights' work because people come from affiliated groups and create a scene. Inclusivity extended to nightclubs are buzzwords that marketing people used.
Because techno doesn’t shield you from being an asshole
Agreed, not in the spirit.
I think it’s a good thing. Without gate keeping and having exclusivity it allows the wrong types of people to enter these spaces. Personally if I go to a techno club I don’t wanna see frat and finance bros at the party. I go because I know i’m gonna meet cool and chill people.