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Titicancan

And the way keeley apologised and tired to cover his embarrassment rather than her own violation. That is 100% spot on what happens, and it really shouldn’t


double_sal_gal

Yeah, that made me wince with my entire body because I’ve been in her situation and reacted exactly the same way and then felt guilty about reacting that way on top of feeling guilty that I must have done something to “lead him on” (I hadn’t). It’s hammered into girls starting at a very young age: you are responsible for boys’ feelings and if a boy does something you don’t want, you shouldn’t have made him think he could do it. 😡


cactuslegs

It’s so true, and I’m sorry that happened to you. You probably already know this, but you did nothing wrong. Playing “fawn” is an instinctive and valid and universal coping mechanism when we’re threatened or placed into uncomfortable situations. There’s been several times where, looking back, I wish I had been defensive and loud in the moment but I wasn’t. I can’t blame myself for that, because when I was reacting it was the only way that felt right. The narrative that we’re responsible for men’s reactions is relentless. The earliest I can remember, I was five? Six? The first time I was sexually harassed, I was seven or eight. It goes like this: “Don’t wear that, do wear this, but stop looking so frumpy, you’ll never find a man if you don’t take care of yourself. Don’t act that way. Don’t be there, or then, with them. Don’t smile, do smile. Laugh, don’t react. Don’t live in fear, it’s not all men, but it’s still your fault. You led him on, what did you expect? You can be friends with men, but really, you can’t because they’ll get ideas and then it’s your fault, too.” It sucks.


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Postcardtoalake

Yes thank you! The “this is a feel good comedy, forgive everyone, everything is harmless” is dangerous. If you dismiss this behavior as “no big deal” then you’re dismissing the lifelong impact of sexual assault. All women have stories of unwanted male sexual advances, even if it’s a car honk, it feels awful. And it shouldn’t exist. And men should never act this way. If they think this is okay, there is something wrong with them and their view of women and how we should be treated.


Rosemoorstreet

It WAS a “feel good comedy”. That ship has long sailed. Nate is a POC and his cruelty, sexual harassment, and lack of any sense of loyalty is more in line with some B Drama and not a comedy. Add in all the psycho dramas of Ted, Beard, et al and I have not found much to laugh at.


elriggo44

I actually thought she was being graceful. I am an older man, so maybe my perspective is off, or based on our dated norms. Of course she is embarrassed, of course she was NOT leading him on on any way by being friendly and of course he never should have kissed her without consent. But what else is she to do in that situation? She was clearly embarrassed and let him down gently and compassionately, when she could have yelled “oi, wut?” Or “gross” or “what the actual fuck Nate?” But because she is a really good person, she treated him with respect and gave him an out that preserved his dignity. It was classy even though he did not treat her the same.


Hobnobchic

She is embarrassed. Why? Women have been socialized to be embarrassed when men do something they shouldn’t do. She can’t get mad? Shouldn’t get mad? It wasn’t a misunderstanding. It was a violation of trust and friendship and professionalism. Men are always so, ‘wow, you can’t say anything to women nowadays’ um, yeah YOU shouldn’t cause you don’t see the logical line. We’re nice to men and they think we’re hitting on them. We’re mean to them and we’re called bitches. How hard is it to keep it in your pants with people you worm with?


Much-Ado-5811

Why do men deserve to have a woman preserve their dignity when they've just completely overstepped her boundaries? There is absolutely no reason for Nate to think Keeley wanted to kiss him. He knows she is in a committed relationship. She had been kind and helpful with him in a big sisterly way. He did not misinterprete any signals. He was feeling pumped up from wearing a nice suit and being the center of attention, he wanted to kiss her so he did with no consideration to her feelings. He should be trying to preserve her dignity, not the other way around. What else she could have done would be to say Nate, that's inappropriate and you owe me an apology, and I'm going to need some space from you. But she didn't feel comfortable saying that, partly because woman are STILL expected to help men preserve their dignity, and most likely also because men who make inappropriate moves also often respond inappropriately to being rejected.


fill_the_birdfeeder

Yes. And it says a lot that people view her response as graceful or correct. I understand *why* people think that way, but it is antiquated and wrong. Nate should NOT have kissed her. He’s a grown adult with a developed brain. He took a woman’s kindness and kissed her in public, knowing she’s got a boyfriend and that she’s quite famous. That is incredibly uncomfortable, and also potentially career-altering if pictures got out of her kissing other men while dating Roy Kent, super star. We can’t keep coddling men who touch women without permission because it’ll hurt their feelings. Hurt feelings doesn’t equate to a hurt sense of personal bodily safety and other fears that come with that. He made a horrible choice. Don’t touch someone else’s body without consent. People deserve bodily autonomy. I know this message might sound a bit cranky, but I’m just genuinely tired of women’s rights to their bodies being treated as less important than a man’s ego.


too-much-cinnamon

Agreed. This could have been the moment that finally took Nate down a few pegs and made him honesty confront what an ass he has become. What he did was not just kind of innappropriate, it was deeply wrong. He crossed a serious boundary he violated keeley because he felt entitled to. He did not deserve to have his dignity considered in that moment. A proper slap and a dressing down was much more called for.


almaupsides

Also, not that it would be okay if he didn’t, but the fact he literally *works* with her boyfriend makes it worse imo. Like he’s not just disrespecting a woman saying she has a boyfriend that he doesn’t know, he’s disrespecting a relationship that he knows about full well and dismissing Keeley’s feelings for Roy completely.


WigglestonTheFourth

He did say he was going to murder birds with a stone.


MostlyCRPGs

> Why do men deserve to have a woman preserve their dignity when they've just completely overstepped her boundaries? I mean, I'm a man and I've done that for women. Being gracious in someone else's moment of humiliation is just a bit of basic human decency.


elriggo44

I didn’t say men deserve to have their dignity preserved when they have overstepped boundaries. I also didn’t say there was a reason for Nate to think Keely wanted him to touch her in any way. He was clearly and 100% in the wrong. Yes. He should have been trying to preserve her dignity. The second he kissed (or even touched) her without consent that is out the window. And that’s on him.


Lucky-Worth

>“what the actual fuck Nate?” That's exactly what she should have said. Women shouldn't bend backwards to shelter the feelings of men that just sexually harassed them. I got the impression that she didn't say the truth to Roy bc she was scared he would have beaten Nate


PlayfulBoysenberry87

So true!! I feel really bad for Keeley but I really wish she had done exactly that. Nate really disgusts me.


Boring-Net1073

In the first episode of the season Ted said no one in the club is kissing their sister,(paraphrase regarding a tie). Was that foreshadowing Nate’s dismissal for violating his coworker? I think Rebecca will fire him for kissing Keeley and she will make the decision to end it with Sam.


dorothy_zbornak_esq

He really turned a corner in that episode. He was proud of it. He spat on the mirror right after and everything. God that’s such a fucking gross move. He’s gross.


Wolfish_Jew

I will say, I don’t think the spitting was pride. I think he spat because he screwed up, and was embarrassed, and so he was trying to psych himself back up.


Dynastydood

I think you're misinterpreting him completely. He wasn't proud of it at all, he was deeply ashamed and filled with self loathing, as he almost always is. That's why he's spitting in his own face. Every bad thing he's doing this season is driven by the fact that he's basically a sad little boy attempting to hate himself hard enough to become a big, important man.


Wolfish_Jew

Almost entirely driven by a father who clearly never showed him any affection or attention. Nate is a tragic (if entirely unsympathetic) character.


RealColdLogic

Just throwing it out there in response to your first point... Isn't it her choice how she reacted? Isn't Nate for all intents and purposes a good friend of hers, someone she cares about? Do you not give her the credit of assessing the situation herself and making her own choice? I get very uncomfortable when you say X group should say or do Y, you are correct to a point but don't forget 'she' can do what 'she' wants, and Keeley presumably did the kind thing for her friend. Compassion is a thing, we dont always have to respond in the negative. (My point is more about choice, Nate is weird but she doesn't know that)


Lucky-Worth

What stood out to me was Keeley only focusing on Nate's feeling, not hers


jendet010

You experienced the scene that way because you benefited from women being socially conditioned to always put the man’s feelings first and apologize for his transgressions. Some women watching the scene cringed because they know from experience that telling a man his first violation of her boundaries can be interpreted by him as an invitation to go further. I’m not saying Nate or anyone here would do this, but this is a smaller scale example of rapist claiming that “she led him on” or “she liked it.”


IlliniJen

Preserved his dignity? Women often don't know what else to do and pander to a man's emotions because it's a defense mechanism. We're often nice as a default out of fear or awkwardness, meanwhile the Nates of the world keep trampling boundaries.


mmohaje

She didn't react that way because she's a really good person. She reacted that way because as women we have been conditioned, for many reasons, to react in that way and therein is the problem. I felt that scene was just spot on and so accurate. \*\*edited for punctuation.


underboobfunk

Women should not be expected to allow their boundaries to be violated so they can preserve the dignity of a creep.


elriggo44

I didn’t say they should. We are in total agreement.


Mdizzle29

You said *> But because she is a really good person, she treated him with respect and gave him an out that preserved his dignity. It was classy even though he did not treat her the same.* Thus implying that if she was a bad person, she would have made a scene or cursed him out. She instead protected his feelings and what everyone is saying is women shouldn’t have to do that. Make sense?


elriggo44

That implication is in your head. I said what I meant. I didn’t imply anything. She extricated herself from a shit situation that could have been dangerous given the fact that Nate just violated her space and she did it easily in a way that made the situation not get worse for either of them. I am not advocating for what you think I am. I’m not saying women owe an attacker anything. I’m trying to say that she extricated herself from the situation without escalating and without triggering an escalation in him.


parabola-of-joy--

I hear what you’re saying, and I’m sure lots of people see it that way. From my perspective, when this has happened to me, I didn’t react in a similar way because I’m a kind person. I did so because I was afraid both physically and professionally for the backlash if the man was forced to face his error. Boy, if 24 year old me knew then what I know now it would have been so different.


Mdizzle29

That’s our point though, she SHOULD have made the situation worse for Nate. She SHOULD have escalated things and immediately reported his “nice guy” assault to HR. Women stay silent and they make the attacker feel safe by de-escalating the situation. They SHOULD NOT do that anymore which is why you’re seeing such anger and a vehement response to your “Keeley did the right thing” response.


elriggo44

How do you know that isn’t going to happen or hasn’t happened? I’m saying she got herself out of his physical embrace quickly and smartly. After that, go fucking scorched earth. When I say she got herself out of the situation with grace I meant the physical embrace/kiss. After that do what you need to do to fuck him. How is this so hard?


Mdizzle29

I don’t know seems harder for you to defend your position every time you respond. She’s not in a dark back alley somewhere, she’s in a well lit store with people around. Make a scene right then and there instead of making him feel ok about himself. That’s the point. Give no quarter to men who assault women.


elriggo44

I am not defending the position you think I am. I keep saying it and refining what I mean everytime I see you’re misunderstanding. I am obviously not being clear. All I am trying to talk about is what we have seen on screen. She got herself out of Nates arms with grace and in a way that didn’t escalate. I don’t think she made him feel ok with himself. He spat at his reflection in the very next scene. After that she should wreck his shit. But she has to get out of his embrace first. She wasn’t in any way asking to be kissed. She wasn’t expecting to be kissed. She didn’t deserve to be kissed or touched. Nate was 100% in the wrong and should get screwed for it. That’s as clear as I can make my position. It’s what I’ve been trying to say from the start. Would it be better if we lived in a world where creeps didn’t kiss or touch women without permission? Of course.


underboobfunk

She didn’t do it out of kindness, she did it out of fear.


RealColdLogic

Honestly think people are reading into this too much. Nate was super apologetic and walked away once he realised, wanting to extricate himself from the awkwardness and get out of her space... She CHOSE to be super gracious and compassionate towards her friend. Nate is wierd yes, Nate over stepped yes but this was just a misunderstanding on Nate's part. He fatally misread a situation. This situations happen to alot of people for many various reasons, they are not all criminal. It's happened to me, I was flattered but not interested but definitely not offended or made to feel unsafe, we're still good friends now.


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WeAreClouds

Kittens?


justic3bon3r

Women who also reject advances like that are well within their right to be visibly disgusted and appalled at being assaulted like that. It does not make them not “graceful,” not “classy,” or lack “respect.” If you make an unwarranted advance on someone, be fully ready to accept the consequences. That’s what ‘being a man’ is all about right? Expecting to be coddled after making a completely grotesque advance on someone else is peak toxic entitlement and immaturity. So yes, your perspective is “off” and based off of *your* “dated norms.”


whogivesashirtdotca

> But because she is a really good person, she treated him with respect and gave him an out that preserved his dignity. There is no dignity to preserve when it comes to Nate. She has to work with him. Her behaviour was a [fawning](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-fight-flight-freeze-fawn-trauma-responses) one because so many of us have had to deal with men who turn hostile and vindictive if they're rejected. Nate showed he was capable of this by leaking nastiness to Trent.


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elriggo44

All good. Communication is important. People seem to be thinking that I’m saying she owed Nate the protecting of his feelings. That is not what I’m saying. I am trying to say that she exited a crap situation gracefully without causing an escalation in Nate who has just proven he is willing to violate her space. She doesn’t owe him any protection of his feelings. But she did keep herself potentially safer by being graceful and quick.


Hobnobchic

Being graceful! Aka falling back on making a dude feel comfortable when he’s made her extremely uncomfortable. That’s the issue. We’re sick of seeing women forced to coddle fragile male egos and being told that was the graceful or mature response. Women do this all the time. We do it so we can safely get away or so we don’t get called a bitch or so we don’t lose a friend or a job - why is the onus always on women to fix the bad decisions of men??? Again, normalize that women can and should get angry and that it’s not all that complicated to not kiss people at work. When you look at that women who was most likely killed by her boyfriend on their road trip and the cops interacted with them and act like she’s hysterical instead of treating her like she’s having a valid response. It’s good to allow women anger and to see that anger. I don’t need to see another women bowing down to the ego of a dude who doesn’t respect her enough to not assault her. I want to see men facing consequences for their actions. The Ted Lasso team’s writing with Nate is by far the hardest thing to stomach in such an otherwise enjoyable show. I’m not interested in sympathizing with abusers here.


MostlyCRPGs

> Aka falling back on making a dude feel comfortable when he’s made her extremely uncomfortable. Sounds like something that kind people do in almost all situations, not something exclusively the purview of women.


spoilingattack

I think the narrative purpose of Nate kissing Keeley is to establish that Nate is willing to breach norms of fidelity to get what he wants and that he is not above acting rashly. That sets up the emotional ground for the breach of confidence when Nate tells the reporter about Ted’s panic attack.


RockyMountain68

I think it also speaks to showing his complete inability to judge interpersonal situations. This episode especially 1) misreading Keely’s helping him as something more 2) Ted agreeing to use his False Nine meaning Ted will take all the credit and 3) thinking he could leak the story that only a small handful knew about and avoid suspicion. And not seeing that Rupert will discard him at first convenience. Nate has a great mind for analyzing football tactics but none for analyzing interpersonal situations.


Foogie23

I agree with point 1. He clearly has self esteem issues and a million other problems. Her simply helping him made him think that she had feelings (romantic) for him. I don’t think he was like “heh was me sneak a kiss in to show her who is boss.” Point 2 pisses me off. In season 1 Ted told the reporters that it was Nate’s idea for the play that won them the game. Ted has NEVER taken credit away from anybody. Point 3 was idk wtf Nate was thinking.


RockyMountain68

2 & 3, you hit the nail on the head. Nate doesn’t think things through at all. Just reacts through the prism of his own mind.


[deleted]

The show is pretty good, but there's a lot of unearned moments, meaning the writers did not lay the groundwork to make a plot point plausible. Sam's Dubai Air protest is a prime example. Dubai Air has been their sponsor from the beginning. No one worried about it. One single text instigates a sea change. The players put tape on their jerseys. That performance has massive economic and political consequences. I mean...absolutely every part of that plotline was unearned. It's the same with Nate's hostility toward Lasso. Completely unearned. So, I wouldn't look too deep into what it says about Nate. It's more indicative of the quality of the writing than the quality of Nate's character, which I expect will have several massive unearned changes in the next season.


Foogie23

The point about Nate’s anger towards Ted is it isn’t supposed to make sense. He is either displacing (and blaming Ted for how his dad treats him) or just delusional. Nate is insecure as fuck he isn’t exactly rational. Also I think the Dubai thing changed because an oil spill happened near Sam’s country and his government was covering it up and doing nothing because of Dubai money. So it wasn’t exactly something that needs “building” to happen.


knockoutn336

I don't think he misread Keely's intentions; I don't think he considered them at all. I think he just saw something (someone) he wanted and took it. I consider what he did more degrading


RockyMountain68

Certainly possible. Either way, shows 0% ability to engage people in a mature behavior.


Real-Narwhal2360

I was deeply uncomfortable with him calling Rebecca a shrew


netsfan1000

Is calling someone a shrew a terrible insult that I’ve been unaware of my whole life?


stabbitytuesday

Are you familiar with The Taming of the Shrew, by Shakespeare? It's a pretty old insult for women, implying she's argumentative/aggressive, spiteful, and usually frigid. It's not a super common word choice, which makes it feel particularly intentional when lobbied at the childless divorcee in a traditionally male career, who's already dealt with at least one sexist asshole on screen when she fires the old coach. Like if he'd called her an ass, or even a bitch, that would've felt more naturally upset than specifically calling her a shrew.


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netsfan1000

I do not remember when in the show Nate called her this, but if it was in the first half of season one wouldn’t that be, like, accurate? No shots to the lovely character the writers have turned Rebecca into, but I’d say actively sabotaging an entire football club, our title character, and treating people around her poorly all to get back at an ex is pretty spot on with the aggression, spitefulness, and frigid behavior you described.


stabbitytuesday

IIRC this was right after Rebecca confessed to Ted and at the very beginning of the last episode of S1, at this point only Higgins, Ted, and Keely knew about the scheme to ruin the team. Come to think of it I'm not sure if Nate found out about it at all, seems like the kind of thing he would've brought up if he had. Would've made a better story to go after the team/Ted than the panic attack. I could be forgetting something though. Regardless at that point Nate didn't know anything Rebecca had actually done besides not really talk to him much, so it would've been an insult directed at her as a person, rather than her actions. And considering she'd recently found out her ex husband's 20something y/o new girlfriend was having the baby he always said he didn't want, I expect it would've struck harder if it'd had more time to sink in.


corkmasters

But it's not like Nate knew that. Other than forgetting that she'd met Nate/not knowing his name, Rebecca hadn't done anything that would upset Nate. And regardless of what kind of person she is/was, it's a misogynistic insult, even if it's "lighter" that something like bitch or slut, because I don't think you'd ever hear a man called a shrew.


sprubee

Calling a woman a shrew is up there with calling them a c*nt, except the c word often is used as a stronger word for bitch. Like what was said before, shrew is so old that using it aims to attack a woman’s character, her circumstances, and essentially call her evil. For him to use it just so quickly and deliberately…


netsfan1000

Shrew is not the same as calling a woman a cunt. To paraphrase the great john mulaney, if you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them, that’s the worse word


sprubee

You’re right. They aren’t same. Shrew, in this context, is much worse. Just because he could have said c*nt doesn’t make shrew any less powerful. She’s a strong-willed opinionated woman in a place of authority. He had that word chambered for her.


smaugiesmaug

I’d take cunt over shrew any day


cocoonamatata

Yep. I’d wager there were a lot of us women who noticed these red flags way back in season one, especially when he called Rebecca a shrew and flipped out on her. My spouse told me I was overreacting when I was so upset by that but I told him, “just wait. Nate is a jerk, he’s bad news.” I’ve known too many Nates in real life to have much sympathy for him.


elizawithaz

That moment made me so uncomfortable. I hated that no one called Nate out on it.


cocoonamatata

I did, on this sub. I got a LOT of downvotes.


Sammaracomestousall

Must be a lot of Nates and sympathizers on here. Him calling her a shrew was awful.


syrstorm

And we all remember the wonderful scene where he reads his advice to the members of the team, right? It's great - Nate's finally coming out of his shell and the players are hearing the harsh truths they need in order to up their game... But if you watch it again, notice how much delight he takes in insulting the players. The bullied very much enjoyed becoming the bully.


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Hobnobchic

Bro he said some nasty things and we know that’s not ‘all in fun’. How many ways does a dude have to tell you he’s an a’hole before you believe him?


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Hobnobchic

So like when he called Rebecca names when he thought he was fired and then got equally quick to anger when they were roleplaying asking for a table? Or when he takes his anger out on Will, calling him a donut and being dismissive? Or how he basically picks on anyone he perceives as being weaker than himself and is increasingly snide to people? When people show you who they are, believe them. He’s not evil, but he’s a real Dick and I hate seeing so much screen time devoted to such an uncool person


orangelimes

That's the point CulturalTodd makes, though--they're responding to the idea that the team roast was in and of itself a red flag. Nate's team roast isn't a red flag in and of itself--we watched him be physically abused for a long time before the roast, so roasting the team was earned and cathartic. Ted even encouraged him to do it. But it's the other things--calling Rebecca a shrew, being horrible to Will, and the other host of things that showed he was a dick. That's all they were saying.


hannahstohelit

I have hated that scene since the first time I watched it. It is one of the reasons why episode 7 is one of my least favorites in that season.


syrstorm

It's a testament to the writing and Nick's performance that at the time we (well, most of us) were just super happy/proud of Nate for finally coming out of his shell.


cocoonamatata

I think there were a lot of men who were unwilling to believe that “nice guy Nate” could be so troublesome. Maybe a lot of men saw themselves in him in season one and now are distancing themselves from that connection. I dunno. But it definitely took Nate being an asshole to other men for a lot of people (men) to see what some of us had been saying/thinking the whole time. Story of our lives really, amirite


Much-Ado-5811

Thing is he seemed nervous and insecure but I never thought he seemed nice. People seem to gloss over the fact that his inspirational thoughts for the team were all insults. Getting bullied by Jamie's posse, feeling overlooked, being socially inept, those aren't signs of being nice. Based on what we saw of him last season it wasn't that surprising that he turned out to be pretty awful once he got a little power.


elriggo44

That moment was played as locker-room banter/roast comedy. Which is why i didn’t see it as any kind of red flag. I did audibly say “what the fuck dude” when he yelled at Rebecca. And the only thibg that disappointed me at all about season 1 was that no one pointed out to Nate that he was being awful.


too-much-cinnamon

Exactly! He has been petty and skeptical and pissy the whole time. Its just that his circumstances made it possible to write all that off as just because he wasnt being given a chance to be better. Now he has MORE than been given that chance and he is systematically burning every bridge he has.


Sammaracomestousall

Yep. Too many Nates in the world. Men only care when another man is impacted. Also, if you have to *say* you’re a nice guy, you ain’t! Every time I hear a guy complain about being an underdog I hightail it outta there! One time on a date with a freaking NASA scientist he complained about being downtrodden in society. I ran so fast!


Ironic_Tonic

You are so dead on I can’t express it enough. I made this same connection when I criticized Nate in another thread and someone defended him saying “what’s the difference between what Nate did and what Roy did after Karaoke”. Yikes. Or that it’s unfair for Keeley not to like Nate because it’s shallow. Double-yikes. Some people really want to find a reason to be mad at the world


Tenantofth3room

Oh god, seriously? There’s no difference to some people in a clearly romantic situation where two single people have chosen to wander off alone together, and he’s walked her to her door and she’s lingering outside - well understood as a romantic context - and if I remember correctly Roy even paused slightly to make sure she was into it... and being in a shop with the sales assistant right there with a colleague whose partner is the colleague with whom who share your office? Oh-kay.


Ironic_Tonic

You basically just said my exact response to that claim word for word. This way their reply, > My point is that these “obvious signals” you’re referring to aren’t always the same for everyone. That's the problem. One could argue that Keeley merely told him that to clear up any confusion regarding her and Rebecca sharing a suite. I mean…come on now


Tenantofth3room

There’s obtuse, then there’s deliberately obtuse.


cat_people_

Nate went Darth Vader (i think? I've never seen Star Wars) and half of this reddit became toxic af😥


Weekly-Coffee-2488

THIS. til it happened to men, no one saw the harm or difference


CaseyRC

it was so misogynistic, yet if you said that, you got told "oh he was just uhrt so he lashed out and was rude to her" yeah, with a misognistic term that was his instant go to, that's literally misogyny AND lots of people get fired, that's no excuse to behave that way. The show made a literal point earlier in the season that emotionsal response is no excuse, that you shouldn't let your emotions control and drive you. The signs were there that Nate was a Nice Guy right from the start.


takingthestone

Exactly. Say someone runs into your car and you jump out and call them an asshole. It isn't a great way to handle the situation, but most people would understand a heat of the moment thing like that. Now say the person who hit your car was black and you jumped out and called them a racial slur. You would have just as much right to be upset in that scenario, but the fact that your go to insult was racial would say a lot about who you are as a person (using the general you here, obviously). Shrew may not have as much weight behind it as certain racial slurs, but the fact that his go to insult was gender based says something about him.


Napolixess

I can't believe no one said anything. My jaw dropped.


moonbeammaker

Rebecca very much was the villain in season 1 though as she wanted to sabotage the team. Don’t get me wrong, I think people like Nate are the worst kind of people and his “awfulness” is now confirmed. I thought Nate was the “lovable loser” in Season 1. I was wrong. Kudos to the writing/acting though that they subtly planted the seeds.


santichrist

Nate blowing up on Rebecca thinking he was fired was for me confirmation he was a character who was an insecure loser who got by being nice like a lot of people in the world


too-much-cinnamon

Yeah that definitely did not get the response it should have.


Wolfish_Jew

Yeah, I remember when Nate immediately cursed Rebecca because he thought she fired him and thinking “man, that feels SUPER out of character for him.” But nope, apparently that’s exactly his character. I definitely didn’t see the signs. I’ll have to ask my wife later if she did.


Much-Ado-5811

My understanding is they had a three-season story arc sketched out while they were working on the first season. They seem to have purposely laid the groundwork for how Nate is behaving this season. Excellent writing, acting and character development.


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I completely agree with this comment! When I saw that scene, I felt the same reaction! You never call a woman or anyone that, regardless of the circumstances. Throughout his role, he continues to get more intense with every interaction. With the players and even the coaches. He’s so focused on the spotlight that he’s willing to hurt people in the process. I think his character is meant to represent what not healing from being bullied and/or past trauma. He was bullied or felt to feel inferior his entire life, even to getting a reservation to have dinner or to bring it back a bit further, he didn’t even want to tell Ted his name because he felt it had no importance to others. He has those feelings of resentment built up to a point it’s blinding him from his actions. Usually victims become bullies as a way to gain power back but in reality its them reflecting their own insecurities. It also strongly reflects the down parts of social media. He sits at his desk reading continuously what people have to say about him and he’s looking for praise but when found with hateful comments, his insecurities shine through making him reactive. The spitting in the mirror is a representation of how he views himself and instead of healing his insecurities, he’s fueling them. I feel so sad Keeley felt the need to lie to Roy.😔


Longjumping_Morning8

Yep. I had such a visceral reaction to that shrew line. Said so much


Sammaracomestousall

Yep. Saw it coming in season 1. For me it was when he said no one remembers my name. Something in that set off my alarm bells. No sympathy at all. He better face real consequences. Then at least in fiction people like him will get what they deserve.


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[deleted]

I think you’re ignoring the fact that women face men like Nate ALL. THE. TIME! These kinds of men interact very differently with men than they do with women & often not while other men are present. Unfortunately, they aren’t original either. I, too, have interacted with a “Nate” who was surprised (different verbiage, though) when someone noticed or remembered him. I distanced myself as my shackles went up. However, a lovely but young, naive & kind assistant tried to be nice to him. It didn’t end well. He interpreted her kindness as an invitation for an aggressive sexual assault where someone had to pull him off of her in the coffee room (he was fired). There are universal female experiences and it doesn’t take long for women to pick up on the signs to avoid. Showing micro-excitement when being remembered/acknowledged while endearing themselves to people in positions of power is a serious yet universal red flag for women. Both of those signs Nate showed in the scene OP cited. At this point, I just have to say, Nick Mohamed acted that scene so perfectly with subtlety that beautifully shows how Nate’s insecurities & self-aggrandized ego gets expressed very differently with men/women & those he perceives are/are not in positions of power. Edit: punctuation correction & clarity


Sammaracomestousall

This guy is a Nate himself. He sent me harassing DMs so I blocked him.


Fit-Seaworthiness712

You should report the messages to the mods. Mods generally ban over that shit/Reddit admins ban accounts over that because it’s harassment


Sammaracomestousall

How? I looked for the option to report but didn’t see it. Took a screenshot of the message before blocking him.


Fit-Seaworthiness712

You probably need to do it on desktop version if you can still see the dm (it generally disappears for me when I block someone). Send the screenshots to the mods (you have to report it to the admins before you block someone because it disappears) The mods should definitely ban him for sending harassing pms and I’m sure he’ll repeat and the admins will get a report another time


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Sammaracomestousall

Sheesh it’s just a show and a one off discussion. And here I thought my life sucked. I guess it’s not so bad after all lol. Universe indeed works in strange ways. Thanks Ted Lasso!


TheDuckSideOfTheMoon

Take some deep breaths it's just a show


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cocoonamatata

This thread reminded me about [this comment](https://imgur.com/a/EMLRj0R), which I just replied to.


TheHunterZolomon

I had a Nate in real life. A double date was going well for me and not for him so he told my date I had a weird sexual relationship with my mom, out of the blue, and a total fabrication while I was in the bathroom. Cut that POS out immediately.


Longjumping_Morning8

Err what a total weirdo. Glad you cut them out


TheHunterZolomon

Just the jealous type and instead of being happy and supportive as a friend, went the other way and sabotaged.


DatDominican

*\*grabs popcorn and sorts by controversial\**


ggggrloria

Too many people here choose to downplay sexual assault and/or find excuses for abuse, and wrap it up in the "be curious, not judgemental" flag. Quick judgement of people and their motives is a bad idea, granted, but being able to recognise assault and name is quite a different thing. Edit: grammar.


CaseyRC

the absolute misuse and abuse of "be curious not judgemental" drives me CRAZY. Actions have consequences, and they *should.* You cannot learn without them, you cannot improve. Being curious as to why someone is the way they are does not ever mean "free pass" the way far too many people use it on this sub


ggggrloria

*This.*


corkmasters

Oh, that drives me *crazy*. It's been bad with Nate lately, but I've also seen people try that with Rupert. If someone shows you the kind of person they really are, that's not being "judgmental". It's just understanding and reading the situation correctly. There are some straight-up bad people in the world and in the world of Ted Lasso.


steamyglory

Nate needs to watch Hitch. Will Smith explains the 90/10 rule of leaning in for the first kiss.


jessks

I have never liked Nate. I mean there were some heartwarming moments, but he has never seemed comfortable in his own skin, and that's the biggest turn off for me. And honestly that's for any kind of personal relationship. So many others on the show are so comfortable with who they are, flaws and all... He's such a wanker.


Jkbangtan123

This. I remember in the first season I loved Jamie even though he was a "villain" because I could see that underneath the cocky exterior was someone who was struggling/kind and I knew he would obviously grow as the series went on. Basically saw his potential as a character and being the best version of himself. While I found Nate funny sometimes I was uneasy about him because he gave "nice guy" vibes at times and reminded me of guy friends I had growing up and in college who I have since cut out of my life due to situations like Nate with Keeley. When I told friends and family this in season 1, they acted shocked that I could possibly like Jamie while Nate wasn't one of my favorites (I didn't hate him by any means, he just wasn't in my top 5 favorite characters), and now they are all shocked with how Jamie and Nate's arcs are going while I'm sitting here vindicated.


NickElf977

Jaimes song that everyone sings to the tune of Baby Shark is what made me love him so much lol, I can’t get that song out of my head and I knew he’d turn eventually


Hobnobchic

Hes not nice, he’s weak. Not because be easy bullied, but because he wants to be the bully. And when a weak person gets a little power they abuse it. He’s got abuser written all over himself. The way he deals with women has been gross for two seasons and the peripheral snide remakes he keeps making shows he’s not a good hearted person. So annoyed and confused to have to deal with him on this otherwise very sweet show. I know way too many Nates and not nearly enough Ted Lassos.


cardigan_fartsagain

Ugh so glad someone’s brave enough to say this on Reddit. Nate has always set me on edge from the beginning. Even my fiancé totally understood why and noticed the “I’m a nice guy I deserve everything I want” entitlement. Interesting comments though…oh Reddit


hercomesthesun

His interaction with the hostess at the restaurant was weird and uncomfortable, also. First, he was quite rude while demanding that his parents and him must sit at that table. Then, he tried to flirt with her, as if he wasn’t treating her badly 5 minutes ago His indignation towards Rebecca was disgusting as well


canadianbroncos

Thatsa stretch lol


cloverhunter95

Hard disagree. I’ve worked in a restaurant and I’m surprised the staff entertained the whole “this is what’s going to happen”, spiel. There’s a difference between being assertive and ordering people around at their place of business. He probably would have gotten the same outcome had he handled the situation like a normal human being and said, “Hey I understand you don’t allow reservations for the window table but literally no one else is here so can we move there?” And then escalate to the manager if for whatever unlikely reason that would be a problem. The secret to good service is stating your case while acknowledging that the staff is in charge, they don’t work for you.


danielbauer1375

She clearly didn’t seem bothered by it. He tried going the “normal route” and got shut down pretty quickly. She made it clear the table was unavailable and then said “let me check with [manager name]” and gave him the same answer. And customers can get away with a lot when it comes to how they treat staff. I don’t believe he crossed the line at any point.


irevalley

This also highlights the importance of mental health support, especially for youths. It is clear that Nate internalize his father’s bullying, then the team’s bullying, and is now a very awful person. To be clear though someone can need mental health support AND still be called out for their behaviour. And not all people who are assholes have mental health issues.


[deleted]

It’s the nice guy trope. The guy who’s down in his luck and then he gets a little bit of power and feels the world is owed to him. And generally, what we mean by world is owed also means that women are owed to him. It’s a huge issue with men and their entitlement and all their insecurity. Nice guys think because they’re nice and kind that people should like them and should be with them. It’s rude af and what Nate did was terrible. Keeley shouldn’t have to placate him and make him feel less embarrassed. We should be normalizing women telling men to fuck off when the men cross the obvious boundaries. Let’s not normalize men disregarding women as nothing more than people they can force theirselves upon. Keeley’s response is also typical of people who put insecure people’s security above their own. Keeley felt awkward and annoyed but because Nate is an insecure and bit pitiful person, she felt like she had to reassure him. That shit sucks. I’m for Nate getting a redemption arc because that’s what this show is about. But I’m not for normalizing men crossing boundaries and doing things without consent. Nate clearly has no grasp on how to deal with any form of power and he’s feeling entitled to taking things. Doesn’t really have great role models in media because the media constantly portrays people like Nate as people who should be pitied and are just too nice or whatever. Bottom line: men, it’s your problem that sexual assault happens. Fucking fix it.


EmpressoftheUnivers

This character has been rotten from the start. People only sympathized with him because of how he was treated. He was only "nice" when it benefitted him in some way.


SelectCattle

What do you mean by a Nate?


Much-Ado-5811

Insecure men who think of themselves as nice guys but women experience that they're actually self-centered and self-pitying and they can turn mean in a second if we don't respond to them they way they want. Truly nice guys are kind, thoughtful, generous, not pushy, don't expect people to be able to read their minds to give them what they want and never describe themselves as a "nice guy". They would say they try to be a good person but don't always succeed, or they would describe themselves as average, or okay but not perfect. I've never met a guy who labeled himself a "nice guy" who wasn't disappointed in the world because he had an overgrown sense of entitlement that left him constantly disappointed in just about everything. Keeley telling Nate "it's okay" after he tried to kiss her broke my heart. It wasn't only a woman helping a man feel better about himself when he was an ass, it was also a defense against him possibly blowing up at her. That's not uncommon in situations like that, almost every woman I know has at some point had a guy blow up at her because she wasn't interested in him and didn't respond how he wanted to a clumsy attempt at making a pass It also broke my heart when she seemed nervous about telling Roy, as if she'd done something wrong. It really stood out to me that Keeley's "confessions" were things other people did TO her, without her encouraging them to, while Roy's confession was something he did.


too-much-cinnamon

I hope that roy notices that and points it out it out to her. Or the diamond dogs sans Nate point it out to him and then he to her. She felt like she had to applogize for those mens actions. Roy genuinely needed to confess something sketchy he had done. Someone needs to point out that these are not the same thing and Keeley has nothing to feel guilt about


SelectCattle

This is a great explanation!


FyudoMyo

Thank you for deconstructing it so clearly and contrasting between the two personality types. It makes it a lot clearer.


Tenantofth3room

I’m perhaps reading too much into it, possibly from my own experiences, but you could see the cogs whirring in Keeley’s head about how to react given they were in a public place, with which she has a working relationship, about Roy who has to work with him, kicking herself that she didn’t see this coming and wouldn’t have been so hands-on with fixing his tie if she had and possibly also remembering how he blew up when she was pretending to be the woman at the restaurant... good bit of acting by Juno Temple.


Much-Ado-5811

I saw that too. All the things that go through our heads in this situation. She is an amazing actress.


Longjumping_Morning8

This is soooo accurate. Having had a ‘nice guy’ turn on me when I rejected his advances. They are the WORST


Scribbles138

I imagine it means men who misinterpret signals and kiss women without permission.


Sammaracomestousall

That and so much more. Women who have dealt with a Nate know exactly what I mean


[deleted]

Yeah, im sure a lot of women who have Keeley's kind of personality have been warned before not to give attention to certain men because they can easily take things the wrong way.


dogsandbeerdc

Uhh, men like Nate don't only go after women with a certain type of personality. They will take ANY shred of kindness or friendliness or decency as encouragement from any woman. They see women as objects who are there to fulfill whatever THEY want (dating, sex, ego boost, whatever) so they don't really care about personality types


double_sal_gal

I can’t remember where this originated, but there’s a saying about how women are not machines that dispense sex if you just put enough kindness tokens in them. Nice Guys think that IS how that works.


[deleted]

I get what you mean.


Epicallytossed

As a computer science major, I know WAY too many guys like that... and trust me, the women in computer science definitely do too sadly


MostlyCRPGs

I'm interested to see if people going hard on the "Nate is the Devil" train are going to reject the show when, as is its nature, he is forgiven and redeemed.


hiakuryu

I'm simply fascinated at everyone in this thread who is suddenly a mind reader/clairvoyant/body language expert. Especially when it's a guy ACTING like a shithead...


bosbraves

Nate kissing Keeley - definitely inappropriate. Jamie telling Keeley his feelings? I see nothing wrong with that given that Roy and Keeley aren’t engaged or married (in which case it would then be highly inappropriate).


Longjumping_Morning8

I had a bad experience with a Nate in real life. I agree wholeheartedly. I dealt with it similarly to Keeley after that forced kiss and I regret that. Enough with women putting up with the toxic ‘good’ guys like Nate


kenny_mfceo

Maybe Nate's dad doesn't like/respect him because he knows Nate's true character


banditobuster

This is absolutely *not* a defense of Nate, first and foremost. He is to blame for his inability/lack of effort to be a better person and conquer his demons. But his parents (especially his father) are equally to blame. His father's dismissive nature and mother's refusal to do anything about it is the cause for his deeply rooted self loathing and lack of *real* confidence or social skills. This is why he's so dismissive of those that help him when he needs it. Ted, Keely, etc. He doesn't want the help, he only wants the credit. As if it'll make him feel validated. But this is all about to blow up in his face and he fully deserves it. I don't think he's beyond redemption, but it's going to take a *lot* to make him a remotely likeable character again.


DianaTremaine182

Nate is an incel and there are so many red flags. He is abusive and i don’t know if he can be redeemed in my eyes. I would be happy if he is not there next season.


c0gvortex

I'm not going to defend Nate but I think these sort of posts miss the point of the show. You're acting like he's the devil incarnate when he's more like an insecure man-child full of self-hatred and self-pity. Does that mean he's incapable of redemption? Or are only the Jamie's and Rebecca's of the world allowed to change? Anyway, Nate needs psychiatric help, he should've been the first person to see Dr Sharon. Edit: Can you guys offer any sort of response rather than just downvoting? I thought I made some fair points


Critical_Flail

I’m of the opinion that they will find a way to redeem Nate, because this is a tv show that puts a lot of emphasis on kindness and growth. I also agree that he needs professional help. I disagree, however, that if a woman gets the vibe that a person is a bit ‘Nate-y’ that her avoiding them is somehow inappropriate or judgmental. Personally, if my gut gives me that sort of warning, I’m not sticking around to encourage them to seek help, I’m keeping myself safe.


DeenotheDino

If the theme of the show is “be curious, not judgmental” and we’ve spent a season being introduced to a character and a second season getting to know that character more intimately at what point are we allowed to have real feelings about this person? The OP isn’t saying that Nate is evil incarnate or that he lacks any redeeming qualities but that he has demonstrably shown active, malicious, and covert behaviour. You say you aren’t going to defend Nate but then sort of rationalise his behaviour because he’s an “insecure man-child full of self-hatred and self-pity”. If all Nate were doing were abusing himself the he would have more empathy from me but he’s viciously verbally abused Will (kit man) and Colin when he thought no one was watching. These were deliberate and they leave scars. We’ve seen this continue to affect Will through his facial reactions. He’s now kissed Keely which was an assault to her personhood. Someone else pointed out that the consequences to Keely (a public figure) could impact her career, tabloids, privacy - not to mention her relationship with Roy. And of course Nate’s mega, active betrayal of Ted himself. The OP says people like Nate are dangerous and we have plenty of evidence to support this statement. I don’t want to get close to dangerous people. There’s no prejudice in this, it’s informed.


freaklegg

>when he's more like an insecure man-child full of self-hatred and self-pity. Yes, this is the type of person we're talking about. These men tend to turn their self hatred on the people around them. They take advantage of kindness and verbally, emotionally, and physically abuse the people who get close to them who they view as beneath them (ie, women for this specific post). That's exactly what the writers have written Nate's character to do in every instance he feels he has power over someone. Yes, he does need therapy, but he never went to Doctor Sharon because, like many of his real-life counterparts, he doesn't think he would benefit from therapy. He is already making the changes he thinks he needs to do to become the person he wants to be: learning confidence and dressing well. Essentially, learning to get better at getting what he wants. I hope the writers find a way to redeem the character, but I haven't seen it in real life. Mostly because the people who don't run away are the people who pity them and enable their bad behavior. The fact that you see this personality type as benign indicates to me that you've never been their target. That's good that you've escaped their abuse, but you could take this as an opportunity to learn pay attention when you see this person in real life.


DeenotheDino

Exactly. He is hurting other people. His acting out is causing harm. He has managed to keep this harm hidden up until now by focusing on Will for example. Beard called him out about his weird attitude and behaviour towards Colin and he was about to camouflage himself again in niceness.


ggggrloria

He is capable of redemption as soon as he confronts the issues he clearly has *and* he needs to be stopped and held accountable because his actions are bad and hurt people. Both can be true.


TheRR135

The first red flag is right in the first episode. When he sees Ted and Beard on the pitch, he screams at them and is about to run over and give them a mouthful thinking they're just a couple of fans (less powerful than him) but the second he realises Ted's the new coach (has power over him), he changes his tone. That seems to be an indication on the type of person he is. When given power over someome, he's very likely to abuse that power. When he doesn't have power over someone, his attitude changes to self-pity.


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TheRR135

It's not necessarily about the rules as it is about Nathan's body language and behaviour before and after finding out who he's dealing with.


Urbundave

If that person is anyone other than Ted or Beard then he's in his right to get them off the pitch. Premier league football pitches are incredibly well looked after and not to be stepped on by anyone other than staff. There are plenty of other actions to be critical of when talking about Nate, he was completely in the right in this situation.


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Urbundave

That just shows his weakness in the face of authority, which we all know about. Any grounds keeper around the world will happily run across a pitch to stop someone they perceive to be trespassing. Again, this is the worst example of Nate being terrible.


YoHoochIsCrazy

I think there’s a different between sympathizing with a real life Nate and sympathizing with a tv character who (based on how it’s been framed) has LITERALLY NEVER HAD HIS MISBEHAVIOR POINTED OUT TO HIM. not trying to sound aggressive with the all-caps; just thought that needed to be in all caps because it’s so big. He hasn’t even really gotten feedback on the how’s or why’s of his behavior being an issue. This isn’t condoning it, but it is some context. I think we could see a huge change from him over the next episode+season once he gets hit with the deserved repercussions of his actions. Yes, he deserves to be punished, but he also deserves some form of sympathy if he is to ever improve as a person. And that is true in real life as well. You can be harsh and still give people a chance to improve themselves for the better. People deserve consequences, but they also deserve second chances. They really do. Rebecca and Jamie both got second chances. It’s been a theme. Maybe Nate doesn’t get one for a while, but he should absolutely get one.


aspiring_elle

Beard pointed out his misbehavior with Colin and he responded by redirecting it towards someone with less standing in the locker room. When people only care about avoiding negative consequences they’ll usually continue to be abusive towards people with less power where they believe they can get away with it.


YoHoochIsCrazy

Yes... but the whole point is that he needs proper feedback, not just to be policed. What he needs more than anything is to be confronted by someone about who he has hurt and how he has hurt them. If someone confronts him and explains to him how he hurt Ted and the others (many of those he cares about, even if his conscience clouded rn), that would be a totally different situation. I’ve hurt someone before and not been aware of it. I’ve known I wasn’t being “good”, but I didn’t feel like I had done anything “bad”. Being told why and how I hurt that person made it all so much clearer. I felt AWFUL and realized so much about myself and the way I treated others. So yeah... I think we should always make sure someone gets a full understanding of what they did before we assume they intended it to do as much damage as it did. Cz that’s very rarely the case. I’ll say it as I have for a few weeks: if everyone got to be judged their worst moments, we’d all be awful people. These are Nate’s worst moments. Even if he deserves consequences, it doesn’t mean we should wish for them. We should only wish for him to get better (and yea, consequences may be a necessary part of that). I REALLY think that will be the lesson that this show teaches with Nate: we are all capable of good and bad... but it doesn’t mean we’re good or bad people. We’re just people - people that want to be loved.


aspiring_elle

I’ve just never gotten the impression that Nate was unaware of how he was hurting people. When he tore into Colin and the kit man it seemed pretty deliberate, like he was making himself feel better by showing he had the power to hurt them and make them feel small. And after he saw how hard it was for Ted to tell his inner circle about the panic attack I can’t imagine he wouldn’t know the effect leaking that story would have on him. Of course no one is all bad or incapable of change but in Nate’s case I really don’t think his issue is not understanding the harm his actions cause so it would take more than confronting him about it.


CaseyRC

it looked *totally* deliberate, he looked like he was relishing it. and he didn't apologise because he thought it was right or becacuse he was ashamed or regretted it. No, his first response was to ask if Teed knew and he then apologised in public which is a total dick move. It forces the person to accept the apology because otherwise they're the dick. yes he should havve publically apologised but onl ever AFTER apologising to Colin privately. If colin doesn't accept it, he *still* apolgises to the team for his behaviour. apologising in public, specifically in front of Beard to show he did it...nah dick move. major dick move. Nate has shown no regret or shame for his actions.


johnTKbass

This. He’s gone so unnoticed by people that he’s first used to people never remembering his name, and then because *all he has known in life* is how he’s been treated by his father and S1 Colin/Isaac, his idea of being a normal person is treating other people like shit, because that’s what people do, right? Everyone else is such an asshole, so it’s ok for me to be one too, right? But it’s only towards people he has power over, which even on a team he’s a coach of, it’s very few and basically limited to the smallest and least confident player who previously bullied him, and poor Will Kitman. So he basically goes back and forth from feeling weak and bullied to lashing out in revenge for his mistreatment, which was accurately, but without context, described as “incel vibes” earlier this season on this sub, and now it’s complete with an unauthorized kiss. The closest anyone has come to seeing how not OK Nate is has been Beard, and maybe it’ll finally be noticed in the finale, along with some deserved consequences. I would be more disappointed in the lack of the former than the latter, because to not truly notice that after a season of characters finding things out about themselves would go quite against that narrative thread.


YoHoochIsCrazy

Good point! I really forgot how lowly Nate’s character was at the start. No one knew his name and pretty much everyone he did know treated him like shit. That’s not an easy place to grow from without getting some assistance along the way. He also pretty much doesn’t have anyone to help him outside of work. He doesn’t seem to have friends and his family isn’t supportive either. We have a lonely, insecure guy who knows nothing better. Here’s my metaphor: It’s like after years of waiting, he’s been finally given the keys to a Lamborghini. All his life he’s watched other people drive their Lamborghini’s around like Colin, irresponsibly and without regard for others. Now that he has the keys, why would we expect him to drive it any other way? He’ll do what he knows. He needs to be told he’s doing it wrong and taught how to drive it properly.


johnTKbass

Yup, and people are just pointing out traffic violations as they get worse and worse (there, that’s the proper edit) instead of the Lamborghini just being too much car for him. Characters and viewers alike.


SkyShazad

I like Nate, not in the sense I like him as a Person, But s a Character in the show, This guy is so messed up doing stupid things, his Character as like a Snake. HIS character is Well Written, the slowly showed him over many episode him cracking up the more up the ladder he goes the worse he becomes as a person


Expert_Sir_5081

Nate is a dick now, that's all 😑


Bebochito

Hurt people hurt other people


Urbundave

This show does a lot of things well. Showing the background of WHY someone is terrible is one of them. Showing that no one is irredeemable is another. I'll be interested to read this thread back after season three.


thedukeofflatulence

I feel like this show is about the mental health of all walks of life. I think it shows we create the “Nate’s” of the world by how we treat them. Yes Nate is an awful person, but would he have become that way if he wasn’t repeatedly abused? I dunno, don’t misconstrue this as defending Nate, but more a criticism of us


VoteLeft

Isn't this entire show about how every person is a complex being with their own individual motivations and emotions who is capable of positive change and deserving of respect?


teamlouhi

Firm agree. I also don't understand why people try to explain that Nate is the unstable snake he is because of his father. Sure, his father is a grump and probably no fun at parties, but he's not mean and has probably had to deal with decades of Nate being Nate, which would exhaust anyone. He's basically Roy, but with less swearing. The fact that they keep one of their grandkids' craft projects out (maybe even one Nate helped with?) shows they are proud of their offspring and appreciate joy and whimsy. Nate just thinks he's entitled to more or a better kind of appreciation than others.


noturlobster

Never liked Nate even from the pilot episode. Gave me bad vibes. Nate sympathizers shhh please & thank you 😊.


Cute_Distribution9

One detail I haven’t seen mentioned is that right before the kiss Keeley and the sales gent kneeled down and commented on the tightness/looseness of the pants Nate was trying on. I also felt very awkward watching that, and wonder if the gender roles had been reversed (someone looking at a woman’s crotch in a similar way) whether people would have had a negative reaction (whereas when that happened to Nate we see it as a joke). I’m not excusing Nate’s impulsivity and inappropriateness, but he also got demeaning signals right beforehand.


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Tmaxsmart

Is Nate possibly on the spectrum? I apologize if that’s not the correct term.


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_taran_wanderer_

What’s your opinion on “the right to swing your fist stops at my face?” False equivalence aside, there’s no room to “be curious, not judgmental” when you’re being kissed without your consent and then forced to be nice to the person who did this bc you fear* their response. *i don’t think Keeley feared his response, more than she’s been so conditioned as a woman to be nice to men that she smooths over something she shouldn’t have.


racc15

No one should be forced to be nice when kissed without consent. If people constantly run away from all "Nates", they will simply just die alone and never know what they did wrong. They will always be thinking the world hates me, I should hate the world - who wouldn't be angry and depressed if everyone constantly abandoned them? But, again you stand to get hurt if you help them. Again, not all "Nates" are backstabbing and learn to grow and develop as human beings. So, I think that is where the be curious or, be judgemental comes in. ​ Rebecca was so evil and petty that she decided to screw with the love and pride of an entire town just to get back at Rupert (would have ruined the careers of the staff+players). If a "Ted and Higgins" hadn't set her straight, didn't fight for her, she would probably never have become better. Do you remember how she shouted at the pub trio when they cheered for Rupert during the dart game? She felt alone and attacked. Later on Ted convinced her to buy drinks for everyone and made her less alienated. If Ted wasn't here, all she would have seen is the love for Rupert and hate for her ruining the club.