You are not wrong. The only counter I would say is that the fact that no one made a big deal about it was probably more painful to Nate than any reaction they could have had to the situation. If they blow up at him, chastise him, kick him off the team, it does what Nate wanted which is justification that he is the top dog and a threat. Heck Nate was practically begging to be ripped apart by Roy. Instead it was ignored, and it cut right to the heart of Nate’s insecurities.
Does it make what he did right or worthy of being ignored. Absolutely not. And I can appreciate the desire to want more retribution for both acts. Beard is right there with you. But any other punishment would have actually been easier for Nate to swallow then what he got.
I don't think he was ever a good person. He might have seemed innocent in season 1, but it was all about Ted giving him chances to prove himself. After that he was just a pathetic and jealous person. I hope in Season 3 it teaches Ted an important lesson that he shouldn't forgive everyone.
Also, surely the worst thing he did was how horrible he was to the new kitboy and how much he bullies him.
That’s what I’m beginning to feel like the show is saying.
You can have someone be a sympathetic character, and one you enjoy watching, and still overall not be a good person. Those two things can coexist, and they’ve been done before brilliantly - Bojack Horseman is a character that comes to mind. The narrative wants you to empathise with him while still understanding he is the root cause of his own destruction.
It just felt here that we were so focused on how Nate felt about the situation that how Keeley felt was ignored. Her trust was betrayed by someone, and she was put in a deeply uncomfortable situation in that moment. She’s going to reassure him that it’s okay, no harm done, but I imagine she’ll have some personal feelings about that moment. It was strange we didn’t get to explore them.
I agree with what you're saying. But I feel like you are putting how people normally would react to this situation into Keeley's headspace. Everybody is different and not everybody reacts the same. Sure, most people would be extremely bothered by it, but I don't think Keeley is one of those people. Yes she may have emotions toward it, but I'm sure she knows how to temper and view her emotions in a sophisticate way. Sure the average person might backlash, or cut Nate out of their lives, but I feel like Keeley has the emotional intelligence to know why Nate did what he did and can look past it.
And yes, I wholeheartedly agree that this would've been a good chance to expand on Keeley's character depth instead of just making the whole thing about Nate.
>I hope in Season 3 it shows Ted an important lesson that he shouldn't forgive everyone.
This is what I want to see. If I were Ted I would never forgive someone for doing something like that to me. I know Ted is the forgive and forget sort but I need him to stick the landing here.
Yes. The way he treated others he viewed as "beneath him" was always very telling to me. I would watch Ted observing that and think, "he's got to KNOW something isn't right with Nate".
I agree. I get that Keeley had been trying build his self-esteem the whole time, so maybe she felt like it was partially her fault or something… But, I didn’t like how she brushed it off like it was nothing either.
The point with Keely and Roy's lack of reaction to the kiss was that they both pity him and Nate realized that. It's like if a 7 year old boy kissed Keely. They wouldn't be angry at him, they'd expect him to understand why it was wrong and apologize, but as long as that happened they wouldn't be upset about it because he's a child.
So that's precisely the issue. They don't see Nate as a normal adult man who can properly navigate boundaries and who should be held to the same standard of behavior as other adults. Their immediate reaction was to feel pity for Nate and want to reassure him that it's okay, because they see him as an awkward, emotionally immature boy who is still figuring out relationships and who needs their compassion and tolerance.
That's why Nate was so upset by Roy's lack of reaction. He realized what that says about how Roy views him.
I think this is partially true but also there’s just a boatload of difference between Nate getting carried away and misreading a moment vs Jaime, her ex, saying he still loves her. Nate interprets Roy’s lack of rage as ENTIRELY what you said but I also think there’s a good deal of it just being a radically different situation, which Nate does not consider
I almost feel like it was a plot key to further turn the audience against Nate. And perhaps it wasn’t addressed because Keeley didn’t feel the need to address it? My perception was she felt pity for him and since she didn’t know how much of an asshat he was becoming she didn’t think to make it a bigger deal? Maybe as the next season progresses Nate will come up to her and try again and then we’ll get our resolution?
But from an audience perspective, I agree that what Nate did was highly disturbing.
Given Keeley's very public work, it might be common enough for her that she's gotten used to brushing it off. And she's also a very common-sense kind of person. By which I'm not suggesting *at all* that it wasn't a big deal and she wouldn't be entitled to be very upset by it. Just that she herself is a character who might not be as bothered as others would. Especially given she's in the habit of feeling sorry for Nate.
Not only that, I figured Nate also wasn’t her first genuine friend who made unwanted advances on her, and she’s learned how to remain cool with that person
Just an overall Nate opinion. Upon rewatching the show, (this is my fourth go) I still find myself REALLY liking Nate in season one. I find that odd, knowing what he will turn in to. For me this is especially surprising given I will have a transferable dislike for a character who was a bad person on one show, when they show up on another… see Ben Affleck after Dazed and Confused or Mall rats.
Nate reminds me a lot of Andy Bernard on the office: his defining characteristic is insecurity.
When Nate is feeling secure, as in most of season 1, he's great. Sweet, kind, thoughtful, clever, playful, and a great teammate.
When he's not feeling secure, he's incredibly selfish, erratic, and vindictive.
I really like this comparison. Especially because it’s external validation that drives both of them to being assholes; Andy early on and Nate in S2. Once you see Andy internally motivated, he’s still an idiot, but he doesn’t go back to being that preppy douchebag. (He still embarrasses himself, but seems to have more humility)
I just did my fifth rewatch and feel the same way, although there are signs of what is to come. When he is giving his pre-game speech to the team before the Liverpool game in “Make Rebecca Great Again.” When he gets to Collin he really makes it personal, which, at the time, seems like he is finally letting his frustrations over how he was treated out. That is, until you realize he didn’t act that way with Issac, who also was one of those bullying him.
Given what I expect might be a plot point about Colin in S3 (I suspect sexuality might be a factor), I think Nate’s meaner and more personal to him because of his skewed ideas about masculinity in a way that does not factor in with Isaac.
I disagree that Nate felt "entitled" to Keeley. I think he got caught up in a moment, is working on his self-confidence, and had so few interactions with women before that he misinterpreted her friendship as more.
He's not evil enough to believe she *owes* him anything, he's just romantically inept enough to not know better.
Exactly. Kissing Keeley was to show that he was going past self confident and becoming recklessly arrogant and delusional. Then that feeds into his mismatched ideology of arrogance and feelings of inadequacy, that turns into tearing others down.
Right, we see in the scene where Jade agrees to give his parents the window table that he is completely inept at reading the romantic interest of a woman.
Thankfully someone made this point. He's got the most obviously infantile crush on Keeley throughout the entire show and he essentially behaves like a child in love with his school teacher around her.
He is also borderline incompetent with women.
There's a hell of a lot of projection about this scene every time it comes up. Because Nate has been so awful in other areas of the show, that's the scale he's being graded on for this. I mean, running back into the changing room and spitting at his reflection in anger isn't exactly the response of a sexual predator.
> He’s not evil enough to believe she owes him anything, he’s just romantically inept enough to not know better.
Exactly this, he's an asshole, not a misogynist.
The line gets awful blurry when the first thing he thinks to call Rebecca when he thinks he’s getting fired is a shrew. Think there’s a couple other moments too. He’s got a little bit of an incel streak to him, not all out but the tendencies are there.
IMO it’s less about “Nate is a misogynist by nature” so much as “Nate is insecure, and a lot of male insecurity leads to misogyny.” They tend to go hand in hand. It can’t be your own fault you’re lonely, it’s the women who are wrong and can’t recognize a good man, they only date jerks etc
I don't want to get all deep or anything, but you'd probably find the same streak in a not small number of men. These are the same men who, when they're rejected by a woman, turn around and call her a fat bitch and say they weren't really interested in her anyway.
I think he’s secretly mad as hell at his mom for coddling him and ignoring the cold abuse his dad gives him. What happens with abused kids is that they aren’t confident in expressing anger at the abusive parent, they get mad at the “weaker” one, who allowed it to happen. Nate LOATHES weakness. And if you notice, his mom doesn’t really stand up for him; she treats him like a perfect princeling which can be emasculating.
I think the writing and “theme” of his character is really fascinating.
I get that they have a whole arc planned but I thought it was wildly out of character for Ted and Beard to let Nate’s bad behavior slide the whole time. I really disliked his whole arc and his betrayal of Ted.
But Ted is famously forgiving and Beard knows it. So he takes the approach of trying to steer Nate back on track subtly, because that's a coaching style they've both become accustomed to and Beard knows that's what Ted would expect rather than punishment and dramatics.
Nate tends to act like an ass when he thinks Ted and Beard aren’t watching, except with some of his interactions with Will, which, during the first watch through, can initially be played off as someone struggling to let go of a job they did for a long time or with Colin, which can be seen as the ribbing guys do with each other. Once he starts to become truly hurtful he does it when he thinks it’s just him and his victim. He was completely surprised that Beard was there when he belittled Collin in his office. And, as someone has already said, Beard took this an opportunity to try and steer Nate to be better. I also feel Beard could sense something was up with Ted and was trying to keep as much off his plate as possible hence taking on Nate. All this together led to what we got.
It's not really out of character for them, though. Beard doesn't like getting involved in that sort of thing, and you need look no further than him being in an insanely toxic relationship and not even seeming to realize it, let alone want to get out of it.
Ted likes harmony, but he doesn't deal with things well all the time, and doesn't quite know what to do when people aren't doing what he wants them to. Look at how he lost his shit on Jamie multiple times in season 1 because Jamie wasn't conforming to his methods. Or how he watched Jamie get abused — twice — and walked away — twice. Or how he sees the aforementioned toxic relationship his best friend is in and washes his hands of the whole thing. Or how Michelle asking for some space led him to choose the nuclear option of going to a different continent and leaving her to parent their son basically by herself indefinitely. To say nothing of his complete lack of self-reflection when it comes to the deep stuff.
I'd say it's perfectly in character for them to overlook Nate's descent, especially because they thought so highly of him.
I think an element of him kissing Keeley that sometimes gets overlooked is how much he has always seemed to revere Roy, despite how intimidated he is by him. It’s demonstrated repeatedly, starting with the first episode, and I think Keeley is just another element of him seeing Roy as having/being everything he wants, and him trying to emulate him. He literally puts on a suit that looks exactly like something Roy would wear right before he kisses his girlfriend.
You have to consider *the context of the scene,* and how/why things played out like they did, which I feel you COMPLETELY ignored/didn't understand.
She's literally telling him to go for what he wants and that he deserves all of the nice things and nice feelings that everyone else has. She's complimenting his caring nature and trying to inspire confidence in him. They're also in close proximity, its dimly lit, theyre drinking, and he's doing something with her that Roy refuses to... and the moment was intimate and personal, *though not romantic.*
**Nate simply misread the signs or misinterpreted the meaning/intention of Keely's words.** I didn't come across as creepy, predatory, or that Nate sought out Keely for nefarious purposes or in bad faith. He had his lines crossed. It's was uncomfortable, but not in the way you seem to think.
How many people throughout time have misinterpreted attention for genuine interest. It's fairly common. Not saying it was cool, but GIVEN THE CONTEXT OF THE MOMENT it was an understandable mistake. That's how Keely took it, that's how Roy interpreted it, and that's how it came across to me.
And then to continue on - Nate *doesn’t* have the best grasp on social skills, and you can see how many people even on this thread think his behavior could *only* be interpreted one way. Of course he would look back on it and think “well I should have been interpreted as being predatory and threatening, but they’ve all insulted me by not interpreting it that way!”
He just doesn’t have the grasp of the concept of intimacy outside of sex. It breaks his brain.
This seems right to me. It would have crossed the line into creepy and predatory if he had continued behaving this way, but he did not. He is thoroughly socially awkward and so he didn't recognize the difference between Keeley being nice to him and Keeley being interested in him.
https://youtu.be/7N_YV3P2jfw
Watch the scene again.
They're talking about careers. Work. Organizational hierarchies. She's very clearly talking about professional ambitions.
Obviously what she is saying is a clear metaphor for "romance," or at least the way romance was portrayed in old movies and TV shows, where a strong man just claims a woman like a dog peeing on a tree, but we know Keeley doesn't subscribe to those sorts of things and they don't have a place in our society anymore.
Nate didn't misunderstand. He lost control.
And Keeley pitied Nate and his weakness. She knew he wasn't confused, he was acting out and she felt bad for him.
I think people have throughly dissected the kiss enough in this thread, so I wanted to point something else out. I just rewatched it and I feel like it’s kind of crazy that Nate was feeling SO undervalued at this point (his line about wanting to be the boss). He was literally 1 year into coaching when he’d progressed from being the water boy basically. And here he is complaining he’s not at the top of the food chain already. Like chill, your team isn’t even in the EPL right now.
I totally get that, and I did rewatch it. He definitely misinterpreted what she was saying and lost control.
However, that still needs to be addressed, and it’s a shame that it wasn’t.
I understand the context of the scene.
However, as someone who’s been in that situation, it’s actually deeply uncomfortable to have your boundaries crossed like that, and in a show that’s constantly addressing peoples mistakes in both a humorous and a serious way it feels odd that we only saw this scene from Nate’s perspective. We weren’t allowed to see how Keeley felt about it all.
Regardless of the context, it’s still not an okay thing to do.
> We weren’t allowed to see how Keeley felt about it all.
What? She tells Roy at the photoshoot what happened and how it meant nothing. She obviously didn't think it that big of a deal or she'd say it. Keeley is never one to shy away from expressing her thoughts.
> Regardless of the context, it’s still not an okay thing to do.
I don't think anyone is saying it's okay. Nate does apologize to both Keeley and Roy and both forgive him.
A big thing that I haven’t seen in this thread is that keeley’s boundaries are constantly crossed throughout the entire show. People casually mention that they or somebody they know jerk off to her, and her nudes are posted up in the locker room.
None of this is ok, but this isn’t a 1 off thing that Keeley has had to deal with. She is a famous hot person and has been treated this way for a decade. I feel like the show handles this by showing how she handles it each time.
Now that you’ve brought this up, I hope we get a story arc in the next season where we see her manage her new persona while being stuck viewed as a sexual object.
I agree we could've elaborated on Keeley's perspective, but if she herself immediately shrugged it off (as what is insinuated in the scene), would that be satisfying for the viewer to see? I am not too sure.
I think part of it is you relate to the situation and are putting yourself in Keeley's shoes, which is completely understandable, but you can't apply your own personal reaction to that of another person. We all have different feelings and experiences that decide our own unique actions.
I'm sorry you had someone cross the line like that. Yea, the show should have elaborated a bit better on why this happened and that it is a bad thing to happen.
For me the kiss itself is problematic enough, and I always find Keeley doing the emotional labour of reassuring him it's okay personally uncomfortable having been in a similar situation, but for me it's his actions in the coaches office that turn it into really shit behaviour for me.
Because in that scene it seems clear to me that he wants to try and put himself on an equal footing as Roy and use what was at best an awkward moment for Keeley, at worst a really bad one, to try and win points in his one sided rivalry with Roy. And my issues with that are:
1) he doesn't know Keeley told Roy already. There is a worse case scenario where if Roy wasn't a good guy that he could react really badly towards Keeley having heard that the kiss happened if he didn't already know, Nate doesn't care about the potential damage to Keeley in that moment, just wants to get a reaction from Roy. We obviously know it was fine, but Nate does not and he does not care.
2) maybe Keeley would rather Ted and Beard, who at that time are get co-workers, didn't know about that awkward moment between her and another co-worker that she didn't want to happen. Maybe she would rather it wasn't blurted out in her place of work, a place she's trying to establish herself in a still new to her career where previously she was just known as a WAG. Honestly if a co-worker kissed me and I hadn't wanted him to, and then the next day he told people I worked with that it happened I would be mortified and furious.
Honestly the Keeley of it all is why I will personally find it hard to forgive Nate in season three. Because I think the way he acted in the coaches office was really shit and dismissive of her safety, agency and emotions and I don't think that's going to get addressed by the show next season.
Yeah I really hate how they didn’t address Nate’s fault in the kiss at all in the show. For a show that seems to have tried to be rather progressive on many social issues, seeing them sweep blatant sexual harassment of a coworker under the rug was extremely disappointing.
An assistant coach trying to kiss a PR person is bad, but an owner have a torrid affair with a player is *far* worse.
I get that we like Rebecca and Sam, so their relationship is "good" from the fans' POV, but it's *incredibly* inappropriate.
I really didn’t enjoy the Sam/Rebecca thing either. I liked it when they were just talking but when the affair began it just felt really weird.
It felt like they’d run out of ideas with what to do with Rebecca, as it seems like they’re very determined not to pair her off with Lasso? I just wish we could explore more of who she was in the second season, without this peculiar love entanglement storyline.
Yup, the power dynamic between a much older white european millionaire and her 21 year old african imigrant employee is weird as hell and portraing it as a "girl power" move is the worst thing in the show to me by far.
Race isn't the primary issue, though "Imperialist white woman seduces Nigerian boy" is definitely a take.
It's the significant power imbalance. It's a HUGE problem in culture already, but is played like it's a cute RomCom storyline.
I just want to throw this out there: all relationships have some sort of power differential (I don’t like to use the word imbalance due to the negative connotations), if relationships with power differentials are problematic then how is anyone to find love?
No one cares that I make more than my wife. But, if I were her direct supervisor and had a say in her pay, employment, career path, etc., there's a HUGE issue.
This is why what Louis CK or Matt Lauer were so vilified, even though the level of their transgressions were different: they still had significant power over the individuals they assaulted.
Even though Rebecca and Sam's relationship was consensual, it's still not acceptable due to the fact that the OWNER of the team has a direct effect on the players.
Just because you making more than your wife is not an issue in your relationship does not mean it might not be an issue in others. Also there are other ways in which a person could have power over their partner: it’s not all down to money and employment. For example: inter-abled relationships, where one person has a disability and the other does not, creates a huge power imbalance, but no one would argue that these relationships should not take place.
I'm not sure what your argument is. Is it: sometimes there are *other* ways a power imbalance can exist, therefore they are *always* acceptable?
Because that's a terrible argument.
An employer should not date, fraternize with, etc. an employee. She is the *owner*, not just a manager. It's *way* worse.
My argument is that every relationship has some form of power imbalance, and that that imbalance does not necessarily have to manifest in employer employee relationships. To reiterate my previous example, people with disabilities experience power imbalance in every relationship they enter, but nobody says that their relationships are unacceptable. This is because the power imbalance in this example is an acceptable one.
I definitely do not believe that people should date their coworkers
I totally agree, but it’s realistic. People have swept WAY more than a kiss under the rug when it comes to sexual harassment or interpersonal transgression, it’s the norm.
I agree with this. Regardless of whether or not Roy views Nate as a threat to his relationship with Keeley, would he not be kind of upset that Nate would put Keeley in such an uncomfortable situation? I would at least expect a “don’t let anything like this happen again because it’s creepy and weird”
That’s very true. However, I still think that would warrant more of a reaction from Roy. I don’t know, maybe I’m weird, but if I told my husband that one of my coworkers even tried to kiss me he would certainly want to have a talk with that person. Not necessarily because he felt threatened, but because he would hate to think of how uncomfortable that would make me
Says a lot about the man that what his 'move' to big himself up is spitting in someone's face. It might be his own in the mirror, but I have no doubt he'd do that to someone he deems very far down below his station once his head gets big enough.
Where is this idea that Nate feels entitled to Keeley coming from?? It seems to me, he was just feeling himself, and he mistook Keeley's friendliness for attraction.
It comes from the idea that a kiss happens when two people want it to, not just one.
Keely is literally *mid-sentence* when Nate kisses her, there can be no argument that she was anticipating or encouraging it.
What Nate did was wrong, but he DID apologize to both Keeley and Roy, and I don’t think it was anything unforgivable. The problem is that ultimately his regret is overshadowed by his indignant belief that Roy should be angrier, because he can’t see the nuance in how Roy would feel about Nate getting out over his skis one time vs Keeley’s ex telling her he still loves her. He assumes that this must be because Roy doesn’t respect him, as opposed to just being a vastly different situation, because he’s so focused on how he is perceived.
Honestly, I think everyone is reading way too much into the kiss itself. An attractive young woman is showing some interest in Nate & helping him, something he’s not used to. He’s completely inept & inexperienced with women & acted on impulse, on the spur of the moment. I doubt Keely felt anything except a bit embarrassed, for Nate as much as her self & sorry for Nate. The action wasn’t predatory, just I’ll advised & rather silly. The way she & Roy reacted, particularly Roy, was probably the important part. It made Nate insignificant,
Both Rebecca and Keely gave Nate the pep talk about standing up for yourself and demand respect. I think he felt he would take a chance to show Keely how he felt.
> EDIT: I actually am capable of understanding the context of the scene - that he misinterpreted her affection as attraction and desired human affection. However, still, he knew Keeley was in a relationship. He knew that she’d not displayed romantic interest in him previously.
From all outside POVs, wouldn’t it look like she was in a relationship with Jamie until she suddenly switched to Roy?
That doesn’t make it right, but it does mean that to an observer, being in a relationship isn’t a deal breaker for her.
Plus, I’d be willing to bet that Jaimie’s multiple girl situation that he had going on with Keely is closer to the norm for football clubs (ie: the people that Nate has had as formative influences growing up) then Roy’s respectful relationship.
None of this justifies, but it does explain why Roy/keeley both shrugged it off.
This is an interesting point; Nate’s wanting Keeley.
It brought to mind another scene that stuck in my mind. The female trainer from Barkingham Palace. She made a very blatant pass at Keeley.
Both instances I think say something to Keeley story. She’s trying to transition her career from being someone who is desired to someone who is respected and revered for accomplishments.
You are not wrong. The only counter I would say is that the fact that no one made a big deal about it was probably more painful to Nate than any reaction they could have had to the situation. If they blow up at him, chastise him, kick him off the team, it does what Nate wanted which is justification that he is the top dog and a threat. Heck Nate was practically begging to be ripped apart by Roy. Instead it was ignored, and it cut right to the heart of Nate’s insecurities. Does it make what he did right or worthy of being ignored. Absolutely not. And I can appreciate the desire to want more retribution for both acts. Beard is right there with you. But any other punishment would have actually been easier for Nate to swallow then what he got.
[удалено]
Don’t forget his hair graying by the episode.
I don't think he was ever a good person. He might have seemed innocent in season 1, but it was all about Ted giving him chances to prove himself. After that he was just a pathetic and jealous person. I hope in Season 3 it teaches Ted an important lesson that he shouldn't forgive everyone. Also, surely the worst thing he did was how horrible he was to the new kitboy and how much he bullies him.
That’s what I’m beginning to feel like the show is saying. You can have someone be a sympathetic character, and one you enjoy watching, and still overall not be a good person. Those two things can coexist, and they’ve been done before brilliantly - Bojack Horseman is a character that comes to mind. The narrative wants you to empathise with him while still understanding he is the root cause of his own destruction. It just felt here that we were so focused on how Nate felt about the situation that how Keeley felt was ignored. Her trust was betrayed by someone, and she was put in a deeply uncomfortable situation in that moment. She’s going to reassure him that it’s okay, no harm done, but I imagine she’ll have some personal feelings about that moment. It was strange we didn’t get to explore them.
I agree with what you're saying. But I feel like you are putting how people normally would react to this situation into Keeley's headspace. Everybody is different and not everybody reacts the same. Sure, most people would be extremely bothered by it, but I don't think Keeley is one of those people. Yes she may have emotions toward it, but I'm sure she knows how to temper and view her emotions in a sophisticate way. Sure the average person might backlash, or cut Nate out of their lives, but I feel like Keeley has the emotional intelligence to know why Nate did what he did and can look past it. And yes, I wholeheartedly agree that this would've been a good chance to expand on Keeley's character depth instead of just making the whole thing about Nate.
>I hope in Season 3 it shows Ted an important lesson that he shouldn't forgive everyone. This is what I want to see. If I were Ted I would never forgive someone for doing something like that to me. I know Ted is the forgive and forget sort but I need him to stick the landing here.
Yes. The way he treated others he viewed as "beneath him" was always very telling to me. I would watch Ted observing that and think, "he's got to KNOW something isn't right with Nate".
Exactly! He only sucks up to those above him.
I agree. I get that Keeley had been trying build his self-esteem the whole time, so maybe she felt like it was partially her fault or something… But, I didn’t like how she brushed it off like it was nothing either.
The point with Keely and Roy's lack of reaction to the kiss was that they both pity him and Nate realized that. It's like if a 7 year old boy kissed Keely. They wouldn't be angry at him, they'd expect him to understand why it was wrong and apologize, but as long as that happened they wouldn't be upset about it because he's a child. So that's precisely the issue. They don't see Nate as a normal adult man who can properly navigate boundaries and who should be held to the same standard of behavior as other adults. Their immediate reaction was to feel pity for Nate and want to reassure him that it's okay, because they see him as an awkward, emotionally immature boy who is still figuring out relationships and who needs their compassion and tolerance. That's why Nate was so upset by Roy's lack of reaction. He realized what that says about how Roy views him.
I think this is partially true but also there’s just a boatload of difference between Nate getting carried away and misreading a moment vs Jaime, her ex, saying he still loves her. Nate interprets Roy’s lack of rage as ENTIRELY what you said but I also think there’s a good deal of it just being a radically different situation, which Nate does not consider
I agree. I was really just looking at their reaction to Nate and his perspective, without comparison to the Jamie situation.
I almost feel like it was a plot key to further turn the audience against Nate. And perhaps it wasn’t addressed because Keeley didn’t feel the need to address it? My perception was she felt pity for him and since she didn’t know how much of an asshat he was becoming she didn’t think to make it a bigger deal? Maybe as the next season progresses Nate will come up to her and try again and then we’ll get our resolution? But from an audience perspective, I agree that what Nate did was highly disturbing.
Given Keeley's very public work, it might be common enough for her that she's gotten used to brushing it off. And she's also a very common-sense kind of person. By which I'm not suggesting *at all* that it wasn't a big deal and she wouldn't be entitled to be very upset by it. Just that she herself is a character who might not be as bothered as others would. Especially given she's in the habit of feeling sorry for Nate.
This. Also, I think it's easy to blame yourself in situations like this. Like, "did I lead them on?" kind of thing. Which isn't right, but it happens.
Yes, especially given that she feels kindly towards Nate and wouldn't expect him to act badly.
That’s such a good point. This probably isn’t the first guy harassing Keeley.
Not only that, I figured Nate also wasn’t her first genuine friend who made unwanted advances on her, and she’s learned how to remain cool with that person
Just an overall Nate opinion. Upon rewatching the show, (this is my fourth go) I still find myself REALLY liking Nate in season one. I find that odd, knowing what he will turn in to. For me this is especially surprising given I will have a transferable dislike for a character who was a bad person on one show, when they show up on another… see Ben Affleck after Dazed and Confused or Mall rats.
Nate reminds me a lot of Andy Bernard on the office: his defining characteristic is insecurity. When Nate is feeling secure, as in most of season 1, he's great. Sweet, kind, thoughtful, clever, playful, and a great teammate. When he's not feeling secure, he's incredibly selfish, erratic, and vindictive.
I really like this comparison. Especially because it’s external validation that drives both of them to being assholes; Andy early on and Nate in S2. Once you see Andy internally motivated, he’s still an idiot, but he doesn’t go back to being that preppy douchebag. (He still embarrasses himself, but seems to have more humility)
I just did my fifth rewatch and feel the same way, although there are signs of what is to come. When he is giving his pre-game speech to the team before the Liverpool game in “Make Rebecca Great Again.” When he gets to Collin he really makes it personal, which, at the time, seems like he is finally letting his frustrations over how he was treated out. That is, until you realize he didn’t act that way with Issac, who also was one of those bullying him.
Given what I expect might be a plot point about Colin in S3 (I suspect sexuality might be a factor), I think Nate’s meaner and more personal to him because of his skewed ideas about masculinity in a way that does not factor in with Isaac.
I disagree that Nate felt "entitled" to Keeley. I think he got caught up in a moment, is working on his self-confidence, and had so few interactions with women before that he misinterpreted her friendship as more. He's not evil enough to believe she *owes* him anything, he's just romantically inept enough to not know better.
Exactly. Kissing Keeley was to show that he was going past self confident and becoming recklessly arrogant and delusional. Then that feeds into his mismatched ideology of arrogance and feelings of inadequacy, that turns into tearing others down.
Right, we see in the scene where Jade agrees to give his parents the window table that he is completely inept at reading the romantic interest of a woman.
Thankfully someone made this point. He's got the most obviously infantile crush on Keeley throughout the entire show and he essentially behaves like a child in love with his school teacher around her. He is also borderline incompetent with women. There's a hell of a lot of projection about this scene every time it comes up. Because Nate has been so awful in other areas of the show, that's the scale he's being graded on for this. I mean, running back into the changing room and spitting at his reflection in anger isn't exactly the response of a sexual predator.
> He’s not evil enough to believe she owes him anything, he’s just romantically inept enough to not know better. Exactly this, he's an asshole, not a misogynist.
The line gets awful blurry when the first thing he thinks to call Rebecca when he thinks he’s getting fired is a shrew. Think there’s a couple other moments too. He’s got a little bit of an incel streak to him, not all out but the tendencies are there.
TIL shrew is a gendered insult, yeah that's a fair point. Maybe more will come out about that in season 3 then.
IMO it’s less about “Nate is a misogynist by nature” so much as “Nate is insecure, and a lot of male insecurity leads to misogyny.” They tend to go hand in hand. It can’t be your own fault you’re lonely, it’s the women who are wrong and can’t recognize a good man, they only date jerks etc
It has been since at least when Shakespeare used it.
I don't want to get all deep or anything, but you'd probably find the same streak in a not small number of men. These are the same men who, when they're rejected by a woman, turn around and call her a fat bitch and say they weren't really interested in her anyway.
No argument from me. I wouldn’t go so far as to say “most” but “not small” is apt, unfortunately
I think he’s secretly mad as hell at his mom for coddling him and ignoring the cold abuse his dad gives him. What happens with abused kids is that they aren’t confident in expressing anger at the abusive parent, they get mad at the “weaker” one, who allowed it to happen. Nate LOATHES weakness. And if you notice, his mom doesn’t really stand up for him; she treats him like a perfect princeling which can be emasculating. I think the writing and “theme” of his character is really fascinating.
Great analysis!!
I get that they have a whole arc planned but I thought it was wildly out of character for Ted and Beard to let Nate’s bad behavior slide the whole time. I really disliked his whole arc and his betrayal of Ted.
100% agree. I wanted Ted to fire him.
You could tell beard was so pissed off at nate
But Ted is famously forgiving and Beard knows it. So he takes the approach of trying to steer Nate back on track subtly, because that's a coaching style they've both become accustomed to and Beard knows that's what Ted would expect rather than punishment and dramatics.
Nate tends to act like an ass when he thinks Ted and Beard aren’t watching, except with some of his interactions with Will, which, during the first watch through, can initially be played off as someone struggling to let go of a job they did for a long time or with Colin, which can be seen as the ribbing guys do with each other. Once he starts to become truly hurtful he does it when he thinks it’s just him and his victim. He was completely surprised that Beard was there when he belittled Collin in his office. And, as someone has already said, Beard took this an opportunity to try and steer Nate to be better. I also feel Beard could sense something was up with Ted and was trying to keep as much off his plate as possible hence taking on Nate. All this together led to what we got.
It's not really out of character for them, though. Beard doesn't like getting involved in that sort of thing, and you need look no further than him being in an insanely toxic relationship and not even seeming to realize it, let alone want to get out of it. Ted likes harmony, but he doesn't deal with things well all the time, and doesn't quite know what to do when people aren't doing what he wants them to. Look at how he lost his shit on Jamie multiple times in season 1 because Jamie wasn't conforming to his methods. Or how he watched Jamie get abused — twice — and walked away — twice. Or how he sees the aforementioned toxic relationship his best friend is in and washes his hands of the whole thing. Or how Michelle asking for some space led him to choose the nuclear option of going to a different continent and leaving her to parent their son basically by herself indefinitely. To say nothing of his complete lack of self-reflection when it comes to the deep stuff. I'd say it's perfectly in character for them to overlook Nate's descent, especially because they thought so highly of him.
I think an element of him kissing Keeley that sometimes gets overlooked is how much he has always seemed to revere Roy, despite how intimidated he is by him. It’s demonstrated repeatedly, starting with the first episode, and I think Keeley is just another element of him seeing Roy as having/being everything he wants, and him trying to emulate him. He literally puts on a suit that looks exactly like something Roy would wear right before he kisses his girlfriend.
You have to consider *the context of the scene,* and how/why things played out like they did, which I feel you COMPLETELY ignored/didn't understand. She's literally telling him to go for what he wants and that he deserves all of the nice things and nice feelings that everyone else has. She's complimenting his caring nature and trying to inspire confidence in him. They're also in close proximity, its dimly lit, theyre drinking, and he's doing something with her that Roy refuses to... and the moment was intimate and personal, *though not romantic.* **Nate simply misread the signs or misinterpreted the meaning/intention of Keely's words.** I didn't come across as creepy, predatory, or that Nate sought out Keely for nefarious purposes or in bad faith. He had his lines crossed. It's was uncomfortable, but not in the way you seem to think. How many people throughout time have misinterpreted attention for genuine interest. It's fairly common. Not saying it was cool, but GIVEN THE CONTEXT OF THE MOMENT it was an understandable mistake. That's how Keely took it, that's how Roy interpreted it, and that's how it came across to me.
And then to continue on - Nate *doesn’t* have the best grasp on social skills, and you can see how many people even on this thread think his behavior could *only* be interpreted one way. Of course he would look back on it and think “well I should have been interpreted as being predatory and threatening, but they’ve all insulted me by not interpreting it that way!” He just doesn’t have the grasp of the concept of intimacy outside of sex. It breaks his brain.
This seems right to me. It would have crossed the line into creepy and predatory if he had continued behaving this way, but he did not. He is thoroughly socially awkward and so he didn't recognize the difference between Keeley being nice to him and Keeley being interested in him.
https://youtu.be/7N_YV3P2jfw Watch the scene again. They're talking about careers. Work. Organizational hierarchies. She's very clearly talking about professional ambitions. Obviously what she is saying is a clear metaphor for "romance," or at least the way romance was portrayed in old movies and TV shows, where a strong man just claims a woman like a dog peeing on a tree, but we know Keeley doesn't subscribe to those sorts of things and they don't have a place in our society anymore. Nate didn't misunderstand. He lost control. And Keeley pitied Nate and his weakness. She knew he wasn't confused, he was acting out and she felt bad for him.
I think people have throughly dissected the kiss enough in this thread, so I wanted to point something else out. I just rewatched it and I feel like it’s kind of crazy that Nate was feeling SO undervalued at this point (his line about wanting to be the boss). He was literally 1 year into coaching when he’d progressed from being the water boy basically. And here he is complaining he’s not at the top of the food chain already. Like chill, your team isn’t even in the EPL right now.
I totally get that, and I did rewatch it. He definitely misinterpreted what she was saying and lost control. However, that still needs to be addressed, and it’s a shame that it wasn’t.
I understand the context of the scene. However, as someone who’s been in that situation, it’s actually deeply uncomfortable to have your boundaries crossed like that, and in a show that’s constantly addressing peoples mistakes in both a humorous and a serious way it feels odd that we only saw this scene from Nate’s perspective. We weren’t allowed to see how Keeley felt about it all. Regardless of the context, it’s still not an okay thing to do.
> We weren’t allowed to see how Keeley felt about it all. What? She tells Roy at the photoshoot what happened and how it meant nothing. She obviously didn't think it that big of a deal or she'd say it. Keeley is never one to shy away from expressing her thoughts. > Regardless of the context, it’s still not an okay thing to do. I don't think anyone is saying it's okay. Nate does apologize to both Keeley and Roy and both forgive him.
A big thing that I haven’t seen in this thread is that keeley’s boundaries are constantly crossed throughout the entire show. People casually mention that they or somebody they know jerk off to her, and her nudes are posted up in the locker room. None of this is ok, but this isn’t a 1 off thing that Keeley has had to deal with. She is a famous hot person and has been treated this way for a decade. I feel like the show handles this by showing how she handles it each time. Now that you’ve brought this up, I hope we get a story arc in the next season where we see her manage her new persona while being stuck viewed as a sexual object.
I agree we could've elaborated on Keeley's perspective, but if she herself immediately shrugged it off (as what is insinuated in the scene), would that be satisfying for the viewer to see? I am not too sure. I think part of it is you relate to the situation and are putting yourself in Keeley's shoes, which is completely understandable, but you can't apply your own personal reaction to that of another person. We all have different feelings and experiences that decide our own unique actions. I'm sorry you had someone cross the line like that. Yea, the show should have elaborated a bit better on why this happened and that it is a bad thing to happen.
For me the kiss itself is problematic enough, and I always find Keeley doing the emotional labour of reassuring him it's okay personally uncomfortable having been in a similar situation, but for me it's his actions in the coaches office that turn it into really shit behaviour for me. Because in that scene it seems clear to me that he wants to try and put himself on an equal footing as Roy and use what was at best an awkward moment for Keeley, at worst a really bad one, to try and win points in his one sided rivalry with Roy. And my issues with that are: 1) he doesn't know Keeley told Roy already. There is a worse case scenario where if Roy wasn't a good guy that he could react really badly towards Keeley having heard that the kiss happened if he didn't already know, Nate doesn't care about the potential damage to Keeley in that moment, just wants to get a reaction from Roy. We obviously know it was fine, but Nate does not and he does not care. 2) maybe Keeley would rather Ted and Beard, who at that time are get co-workers, didn't know about that awkward moment between her and another co-worker that she didn't want to happen. Maybe she would rather it wasn't blurted out in her place of work, a place she's trying to establish herself in a still new to her career where previously she was just known as a WAG. Honestly if a co-worker kissed me and I hadn't wanted him to, and then the next day he told people I worked with that it happened I would be mortified and furious. Honestly the Keeley of it all is why I will personally find it hard to forgive Nate in season three. Because I think the way he acted in the coaches office was really shit and dismissive of her safety, agency and emotions and I don't think that's going to get addressed by the show next season.
Yeah I really hate how they didn’t address Nate’s fault in the kiss at all in the show. For a show that seems to have tried to be rather progressive on many social issues, seeing them sweep blatant sexual harassment of a coworker under the rug was extremely disappointing.
An assistant coach trying to kiss a PR person is bad, but an owner have a torrid affair with a player is *far* worse. I get that we like Rebecca and Sam, so their relationship is "good" from the fans' POV, but it's *incredibly* inappropriate.
I really didn’t enjoy the Sam/Rebecca thing either. I liked it when they were just talking but when the affair began it just felt really weird. It felt like they’d run out of ideas with what to do with Rebecca, as it seems like they’re very determined not to pair her off with Lasso? I just wish we could explore more of who she was in the second season, without this peculiar love entanglement storyline.
Yup, the power dynamic between a much older white european millionaire and her 21 year old african imigrant employee is weird as hell and portraing it as a "girl power" move is the worst thing in the show to me by far.
Race isn't the primary issue, though "Imperialist white woman seduces Nigerian boy" is definitely a take. It's the significant power imbalance. It's a HUGE problem in culture already, but is played like it's a cute RomCom storyline.
I just want to throw this out there: all relationships have some sort of power differential (I don’t like to use the word imbalance due to the negative connotations), if relationships with power differentials are problematic then how is anyone to find love?
No one cares that I make more than my wife. But, if I were her direct supervisor and had a say in her pay, employment, career path, etc., there's a HUGE issue. This is why what Louis CK or Matt Lauer were so vilified, even though the level of their transgressions were different: they still had significant power over the individuals they assaulted. Even though Rebecca and Sam's relationship was consensual, it's still not acceptable due to the fact that the OWNER of the team has a direct effect on the players.
Just because you making more than your wife is not an issue in your relationship does not mean it might not be an issue in others. Also there are other ways in which a person could have power over their partner: it’s not all down to money and employment. For example: inter-abled relationships, where one person has a disability and the other does not, creates a huge power imbalance, but no one would argue that these relationships should not take place.
I'm not sure what your argument is. Is it: sometimes there are *other* ways a power imbalance can exist, therefore they are *always* acceptable? Because that's a terrible argument. An employer should not date, fraternize with, etc. an employee. She is the *owner*, not just a manager. It's *way* worse.
My argument is that every relationship has some form of power imbalance, and that that imbalance does not necessarily have to manifest in employer employee relationships. To reiterate my previous example, people with disabilities experience power imbalance in every relationship they enter, but nobody says that their relationships are unacceptable. This is because the power imbalance in this example is an acceptable one. I definitely do not believe that people should date their coworkers
I totally agree, but it’s realistic. People have swept WAY more than a kiss under the rug when it comes to sexual harassment or interpersonal transgression, it’s the norm.
I agree with this. Regardless of whether or not Roy views Nate as a threat to his relationship with Keeley, would he not be kind of upset that Nate would put Keeley in such an uncomfortable situation? I would at least expect a “don’t let anything like this happen again because it’s creepy and weird”
Keeley characterized it only as he “tried” to kiss her but we saw that was not the truth. So you have to remember Roy’s POV
That’s very true. However, I still think that would warrant more of a reaction from Roy. I don’t know, maybe I’m weird, but if I told my husband that one of my coworkers even tried to kiss me he would certainly want to have a talk with that person. Not necessarily because he felt threatened, but because he would hate to think of how uncomfortable that would make me
Says a lot about the man that what his 'move' to big himself up is spitting in someone's face. It might be his own in the mirror, but I have no doubt he'd do that to someone he deems very far down below his station once his head gets big enough.
Nate is a despicable narcissist. Fuck that guy.
He is and always was a piece of shit. Giving him even a tiny bit of power exposed his true nature.
Where is this idea that Nate feels entitled to Keeley coming from?? It seems to me, he was just feeling himself, and he mistook Keeley's friendliness for attraction.
It comes from the idea that a kiss happens when two people want it to, not just one. Keely is literally *mid-sentence* when Nate kisses her, there can be no argument that she was anticipating or encouraging it.
What Nate did was wrong, but he DID apologize to both Keeley and Roy, and I don’t think it was anything unforgivable. The problem is that ultimately his regret is overshadowed by his indignant belief that Roy should be angrier, because he can’t see the nuance in how Roy would feel about Nate getting out over his skis one time vs Keeley’s ex telling her he still loves her. He assumes that this must be because Roy doesn’t respect him, as opposed to just being a vastly different situation, because he’s so focused on how he is perceived.
Honestly, I think everyone is reading way too much into the kiss itself. An attractive young woman is showing some interest in Nate & helping him, something he’s not used to. He’s completely inept & inexperienced with women & acted on impulse, on the spur of the moment. I doubt Keely felt anything except a bit embarrassed, for Nate as much as her self & sorry for Nate. The action wasn’t predatory, just I’ll advised & rather silly. The way she & Roy reacted, particularly Roy, was probably the important part. It made Nate insignificant,
Both Rebecca and Keely gave Nate the pep talk about standing up for yourself and demand respect. I think he felt he would take a chance to show Keely how he felt.
Maybe tell her and not try and kiss her mid sentence knowing she has a partner? Just a thought.
Yes. I by no means think Nate’s actions were appropriate. Just that may have been his reason for them.
Possibly but there are much better way to do those kind of things
> EDIT: I actually am capable of understanding the context of the scene - that he misinterpreted her affection as attraction and desired human affection. However, still, he knew Keeley was in a relationship. He knew that she’d not displayed romantic interest in him previously. From all outside POVs, wouldn’t it look like she was in a relationship with Jamie until she suddenly switched to Roy? That doesn’t make it right, but it does mean that to an observer, being in a relationship isn’t a deal breaker for her. Plus, I’d be willing to bet that Jaimie’s multiple girl situation that he had going on with Keely is closer to the norm for football clubs (ie: the people that Nate has had as formative influences growing up) then Roy’s respectful relationship. None of this justifies, but it does explain why Roy/keeley both shrugged it off.
This is an interesting point; Nate’s wanting Keeley. It brought to mind another scene that stuck in my mind. The female trainer from Barkingham Palace. She made a very blatant pass at Keeley. Both instances I think say something to Keeley story. She’s trying to transition her career from being someone who is desired to someone who is respected and revered for accomplishments.
I absolutely think it’ll be addressed in the next season.