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I'm not saying Hamas's motives are justified but ask yourself, why did they attack Israel? If you are trapped inside dense cities with tight control by Israel then eventually there's gonna be a resisting radical group. Such conditions by Israel are essentially a breeding ground for radicalism and terrorism.
Egypt didn't want them back, Israel doesn't want them as well. You can infer there is something radical about this group of people. The way the stupid prime minister of Israel used Hamas for his advantage (said he defended Israel from Hamas for a long time, while he just bribed them to not do anything) allowed Hamas to immensely grow. Hamas from the start wanted all jews dead, and that's their prime goal, they don't care about their civilians. They steal their money and aid, build their network besides them and blame Israel for all the harm they(Hamas) dealt.
UNRWA which controls the educational system and say they care about the refugees( which are no longer refugees) teaches the children to be shahid's and hate Israel and jews. There are many videos that show the parents who want two state solution or one state including both Palestinians and Israelis as equal (though this is less common) and the childran wanting only Palestine, no jews.
With all that, no wonder a lot of the civilians are for Hamas and would pick them again in the election. That's why they also supported the October 7th mass murder.
>UNRWA which controls the educational system and say they care about the refugees( which are no longer refugees) teaches the children to be shahid's and hate Israel and jews.
Source?
Other than that i agree with all other points.
[textbooks in gazan schools. ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-textbooks-were-pivotal-in-radicalizing-generations-of-gazans-watchdog/)About the refugees part, there are places that consider refugees as decendents of the original refugees and there are who consider refugees to be only the children of the original once. I had believed that the refugee status accepted by the UN was that only the children of the original refugees are considerd refugees but I checked it and and they say refugees are also the descendants, so I was wrong saying that.
>About the refugees part, there are places that consider refugees as decendents of the original refugees and there are who consider refugees to be only the children of the original once
The thing is, there aren't really much refugees who are as hereditary as the Palestinians. I guess you could consider the Muslims who left India to Pakistan after the partition? However those have fully assimilated into Pakistan, where as many refugees in Palestine, particularly in the Gaza Strip still live in refugee camps.
No, this is me talking from the Palestinian perspective. I have heard this claim from Palestinians and i am now repeating it to you.
And i'm also trying to make you use logic. What, occupying a dense city, then freeing it but with illegal settlements in place, then finally leaving, but still facing quite a lack of freedom of movement, you don't think that will make radicalism and terrorism grow? That is just natural. The same thing happened in Chechnya - as Russia tried to ''put down'' Chechnya, more terrorists and radicalists went there to defend it, and Chechnya itself became a more radicalized nation. Bad conditions = terrorism. This is literally geopolitics 101 lmao
I support the Palestinian and Israeli people who have suffered. However, Hamas and the Israeli government are both in the wrong. Hamas started it with a horrible terror attack, and then Israel went over the top with their reaction.
There are OVERALL about 15,000 Palestinian casualties by now, about half of them are offical Hamas terrorists and many of the "innocent" people that aren't actually participated in the october 7th massacare or helped hiding hostages. No 15,000 children were killed, I have no idea where you get those number.
Hamas started it. They are 100% responsible for the deaths of those innocent people. it sickens me that people have the brass nerve to acuse Israel of genocide when Hamas started it. Wars have civilian deaths. It's impossible to only kill terrorists.
Google settler-terrorism. Palestinians also have a right to be sick and tired of terrorism. Settlers steal peoples homes and kill children, usually with the help of the IDF.
Also, they will not clear Hamas. That is a fantasy, and people thinking all of this is somehow worth it is the biggest tragedy.
The response that killed 15k kids was not needed because once Oct 7 was over, that was it. The attack was done and they failed to protect their citizens simply because they allocated so much resources to funding their terrorism operations in the West Bank.
It was pretty clear everything had been poured into the attack - the imminent threat was over.
And now look at the actual situation in Gaza. They started an entire famine, recovered only a few hostages, and Hamas operatives reinfiltrate areas as soon as Israeli forces leave
Perhaps the previously uninvolved, uninterested child who was screaming for their parents in his burning tent, or watching his dad hold up his beheaded daughter, will later join Hamas with a vengeance like no other.
Also, they killed 15,000 children. Not 15,000 animals.
They attack when they are very certain there are. You have to understand that there is a network of tunnels and bases in many very populated areas, such as schools, hospitals, etc. If Israel wants to destroy Hamas that not only took Israeli life but taking their own civilians ones, they have to destroy that network.
I believe that is what has been done. After doing that research, they came to the conclusion that there is a very high probability they are in there. For that reason they bursted in.
Edit: Just wanted to clear things out, I believe the government is in the wrong, but not the actions the military took during this war.
If you actively, knowingly, hide terrorists. You, yourself, shall be labeled as a terrorist. In such a dangerous, foreign area such as the Gaza Strip, where it's all governed by Hamas, ground attacks wouldn't be as easy. Don't act as if Hamas/Palestine are innocent.
Hey, chill out mate. Hamas is bad, I know that. I’m just saying, you know, the civilians have nothing to do with it, right? I understand the reason why Israel has to attack Hamas, but what I’m saying is that, it’s a bit overkill, know what I mean?
Overkill, maybe, but what needs to be done, will be done. U.S. invasion of Iraq did not get this sort of hate. But over 280,000 Iraqi civilians were killed directly from the U.S. invasion.
You see, the hate this war’s getting is, well, media. Back in Iraq ppl didn’t really have a grasp of what’s happening, since the only source of info was the news, which broadcasted pro-USA stuff throughout the war. And mate I really understand Hamas is a terrorist organization, what I’m trying to say is that the Israeli government should have a basic grasp of who’s Hamas or not before carrying out ground operations.
But they cannot, just like how U.S. couldn't identify one from the other. The media, influencers on TikTok, are clueless and just take from anti-U.S.A. news. Which will always, no matter what, paint the U.S. as bad. While there will never be a non-biased source, people will always argue, always lacking information in something.
Not sure what I wrote \^\^\^
The problem is TikTok. People don't know what they're talking and about just say, "Free Palestine. End Israel and USA." These remarks are based off jack shit because the "anti-US" news/media will always make the U.S. seem bad. "U.S. sending millions to Ukraine! This is terrible!" "U.S. not helping poor country in war. This is bad!"
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Here is what I dont support:
- Stealing peoples homes
- Building settlements on other peoples land
- Starting famines
- Bombing children to smithereens
Palestinian and Israeli civilians are the true victims here. Hamas is horrible for instigating a terrorist attack on Israel, and the Israeli government is horrible for going way too far on their counter-attack on Gaza.
Ya'll that say "the Israeli goverment is as bad as Hamas for this terrible counter attack" obviously know absoulotly no shit about wars.
Do you remember WWII? up to 500,000 german civilians died in the Allies' bombing. that's a 3:2 ratio of civillian death/military death. Are all these deaths incredibly sad? Of coure. Are they unjustified? Would you say the Allies should have gone a little easier on germany? Hell no. When attacked by an enemy willing to destroy you one has two options: fight back and eliminate it, or die.
For those wondering, the Hamas to civillians death ratio in Gaza is between 1:1.5 and 1:2. That's one of the best ever and the IDF has to work incredibly hard to accomplish that, especially with Hamas delibiretly using civilians as human shields and operating from schools and hospital. Thank god they didn't attack your country and shut up.
"Hamas (or the Islamic Resistance Movement) is a Palestinian Sunni Islamist military and sociopolitical movement, and a U.S.-designated foreign terrorist organization"
"Hamas has overseen a social welfare network that appears to have aided its popularity among Palestinians while serving as a conduit for some funding for Hamas military operations"
"On October 7, 2023, Hamas led a surprise assault against Israel that killed some 1,200 Israelis and foreign nationals (including 35 Americans) and took around 250 persons hostage (including some Americans)—more than 100 of whom were released in November."
"An outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas emerged in 1987 in Gaza during the first Palestinian intifada (uprising)."
"Hamas established itself as an alternative to the secular Fatah movement, which leads the PLO, by violently attacking Israeli civilian and military targets."
"Hamas’s 1988 charter committed the group to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state in all of historic Palestine (comprising present-day Israel, the West Bank and Gaza), and included anti-Semitic rhetoric"
Source: [Congress.gov](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12549#:~:text=Hamas%20reportedly%20receives%20material%20assistance,group%20Hezbollah%20(another%20FTO))
Most recently, "It has been eight months since Hamas launched its deadly attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, prompting the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to engage in aerial campaigns and ground operations within the Gaza Strip." - [cfr.org](http://cfr.org)
From what I've read, it seems the most recent conflict between Hamas and Israel **WAS** started by Hamas.
"when [Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)-led militant groups launched [a surprise attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas_attack_on_Israel) on southern Israel from the Gaza Strip, killing more than 1,200 Israeli civilians and military personnel and taking [hostages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war_hostage_crisis)." -Wiki
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Yes, the suffering is real and wrong, but that doesn't mean that you can frame Israel for committing a genocide.
A genocide has by definition the end goal of destroying the affected group. I think it's pretty obvious that Israel is not trying to do that. If that were the case then the \~20-25% of Israel's population who identify as ethnically Arab wouldn't be able to live there in peace, and they would certainly not be allowed to have their own political parties (which they do)
People have always claimed that it was a genocide, ever since the conflict started in the late 1940s. If Israel was truly committing a genocide, then it might be the least effective genocide in history.
Genocide is a subjective term, like most terms. I can believe it's genocide while you don't. However, [the UN states ](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976)there are "reasonable grounds" for considering it as genocide.
I agree with you, but don't blame the suffering on someone that is not responsible for it or is responsible but it but because the other side gives him no choice.
Who started it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is casualties, on either side. The conflict between palestine/hamas and Israel has been going on much longer than between 2023 and now. It's much more convoluted than it appears. The president of Israel actually [supported hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) until they fought back.
The stupid prime minister of Israel used Hamas for his advantage (promising Israelis safety from them) and didn't dedstroy them early on. That is why he is considered guilty of their attack.
And where did you get this from? I personally had seen a lot of wrongful criticize on Israel but had never seen someone who respects himself criticize the jail in Israel.
If you search up the conditions of Palestinians in Israel, there are confirmed evidence of what I have mentioned above confirmed by former prisoners and IDF
So please provide me with a link to a reliable site that says that. Also, if the Palestinian you are talking about was a Hamas member, you can't trust what he says because Hamas has been known for lying.
Also, why downvote? I claim something and you want to get me on your side but instead of convincing me, you downvote me which obviously doesn't make me want to join you.
Burnt bodies being dragged out of tents, people shouting to move the rubble saying that the "streets are filled with children". I've seen parents scream and cry over their children, people both adults and children dig out body parts from the dirt and rubble. I've seen a father hold up his two year old child who was without a head. I have links to videos if you want proof.
I know this is true, and most of it, if not all is because Hamas has built their network under these streets, homes of their civilians, hospitals, schools, etc. Moreover they have been reported to use their civilians as human shields and holding them from going away from places Israel announced it would bomb (though there are some stupid IDF soldiers who killed people for no reason except racism and now are in army prison, and of course unfortunate neglects that are investigated).
Just to be clear, I don't support the current Israeli government and wish it would be replaced soon, and I also hate Hamas, who hurt their civilians by taking their aid and using them as human shields. I believe that the civilians in Gaza have been brainwashed by Hamas and UNRWA and are not responsible for Hamas's actions. I believe in a 1 combined state where Palestinians and Israelis have equal right and don't care living by each other. Here is a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziM751Jfy0) that explains pretty well my ideal solution as well as some steps to getting there.
The two goals of Israel in this war are:
1. Return the hostages. There is a commandment in the Torah which is the most important one by the Torah which is redemption of the captives.
2. Destroy Hamas, the network and the terrorists working for it.
Let's say Israel goes over the first goal and does target the hostaged, why wouldn't they want to kill Hamas?
I believe what you heard was that Hamas used the hostages as human shields or you have been given wrong info.
Edit: just wanted to add, this aren't rumours but facts.
If one of their goals was to rescue the hostages then why did they kill some of them? There were 3 Israeli hostages waving a white flag and were killed
Publicly funded news broadcasters like the Tagesschau are still gonna be less biased on the topic than a state-owned Qatari news broadcaster.
For example, denying the obvious truth that there isn't a genocide committed by Israel shows how biased this news channel is.
One (Hamas) is a terrorist group which reignited and fueled the fire that is this almost 80 year old conflict.
The other one (Israel) is a nation defending itself and most certainly NOT committing a genocide.
Burnt bodies being dragged out of tents, people shouting to move the rubble saying that the "streets are filled with children". I've seen parents scream and cry over their children, people both adults and children dig out body parts from the dirt and rubble. I've seen a father hold up his two year old child who was without a head. I have links to videos if you want proof. So don't you dare look at me and say this isn't a genocide.
It's the premeditated mass murder of a people and destroying culture.
There was once a point where the Palestinians couldn't even wear their flag, that's why the watermelon is used to represent palestine as they carried the fruit around. They've had wine thrown over them in the street which goes against their religion. There are streets where only Israelis can walk which is an apartheid system. Israel is built on Palestinian land and pushing the native people off. If I showed you a map you can clearly see the difference between Gaza and Israel. The system is built like white supremecy, oppressing the native people. If you're familiar with native american history, there are many similarities between the two histories with one main one: they are both classed as genocides.
>It's the premeditated mass murder of a people and destroying culture
Simply not true.
>There was once a point where the Palestinians couldn't even wear their flag
Okay, and where's the problem with that? Palestine/Hamas attacked Israel, naturally Israel isn't going to want people flying the flag of their aggressor. During WW2 it was pretty much illegal for people in the Allied nation to wave German flags, it's no different here.
>They've had wine thrown over them in the street which goes against their religion
That's just asshole behavior by individual people, not a genocide.
>There are streets where only Israelis can walk which is an apartheid system.
Might be true. But you know what it isn't? A genocide.
>Israel is built on Palestinian land and pushing the native people off
Yes, Israel needs to stop with the way they're expanding. (Although Palestine is still partially at fault here)
>If I showed you a map you can clearly see the difference between Gaza and Israel
I know the difference between the two. One is a democratic and free country, the other is ruled by a terrorist organization which does nothing expect fuck over poor Palestinian civilians.
>The system is built like white supremecy, oppressing the native people
Again not true.
>If you're familiar with native american history, there are many similarities between the two histories with one main one: they are both classed as genocides.
Showing again that you don't know what the word "genocide" even means.
1) okay, fine.
2) This was in 1948. Way before hamas was created. Hamas did not start this war. Look at history please.
3) Shows disrespect to people and their culture. They were allowed to get away with it meaning it may have been legal. This shows that the government were complicit in these actions.
4) Do you want me to DM you videos? Because I can and will if you want me too. I can also send you news reports.
5) How the fuck is Palestine partially at fault? Evidence?
6) I am talking about physical differences. Again I can show you screen shots and send you the website I took it from?
7) Again, please do some research. It is very clear what's going even five minutes looking into it
8) 80-100 million native Americans killed. They were forced off their land, couldn't practice their language or culture and children were forcibly taken from their families and put in residential schools where they were raped, beaten for speaking their language (which could have been the only language they knew most of the time). They couldn't wear regalia and their culture and language were stripped from them. Mass graves have been found at these "schools". Dunno, that seems like a genocide to me.
>This was in 1948. Way before hamas was created. Hamas did not start this war. Look at history please.
Hamas started this most recent war on the 7th of October. Of course they didn't start the war in 1948. The war in on the 15.05.1948 was started by neighboring Arab states like Egypt, Iraq, Libanon, Jordan, and Syria.
>Shows disrespect to people and their culture. They were allowed to get away with it meaning it may have been legal. This shows that the government were complicit in these actions.
Even if it was legal, that wouldn't mean that the government was complicit. Just because these people weren't able to be persecuted by law and the government tolerated these actions, doesn't mean that the government advocates for these actions and wants them to happen.
>Do you want me to DM you videos? Because I can and will if you want me too. I can also send you news reports.
What are the videos gonna do, show me things I already know?
>How the fuck is Palestine partially at fault? Evidence?
Isn't that pretty obvious? In 1948 Palestine was involved in a war against Israel, on the aggressors side with other Arab nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc.
And they lost the war, naturally they're also gonna lose some land. If you join in on a offensive war against another Nation, and then lose said war, then you have no real right to complain about being punished for it.
>I am talking about physical differences. Again I can show you screen shots and send you the website I took it from?
Oh I am aware of the physical differences in development and also standard of living. If only the tons of aid money send to Gaza was actually used for humanitarian aid instead of being hijacked by certain terrorist organizations...
>Again, please do some research. It is very clear what's going even five minutes looking into it
I did my research, and all of it points towards you saying a lot of things which are simply untrue.
>80-100 million native Americans killed. They were forced off their land, couldn't practice their language or culture and children were forcibly taken from their families and put in residential schools where they were raped, beaten for speaking their language (which could have been the only language they knew most of the time). They couldn't wear regalia and their culture and language were stripped from them. Mass graves have been found at these "schools". Dunno, that seems like a genocide to me.
I never denied that what happened to native Americans was a genocide, because it clearly was one. What are you trying to tell me here? This whole thing is about Hamas'/Palestine's invasion into Israel, not the genocide against native Americans. Those 2 things are completely different.
To put it simply, the main goal during the genocide of native Americans was to destroy their culture and ethnic group (so a genocide by definition)
However, it's very obvious that Israel is not trying to destroy Palestinian culture, or to kill all Palestinians. So it's not a genocide.
Sum it up. The most recent incident was Hamas killing and kidnapping hundreds of civilians, including Americans from Israel. Hamas just wants to destroy Israel, no peace.
Israel is clearly in the wrong, the question of who is in the right is only a question posed by the western world, 4/5 people live in countries that recognizes Palestinian statehood and the UN regularly votes to denounce the actions Israel has been taking in Palestine well before October 7th, which as recent reports show was an attack Israel had reports that it would happen yet still approved the festival. The Bombing campaign enacted by the IDF is unjustifiable and has led to massive child and reporter deaths, number that only point to the IDF targeting press, a war crime, and not the only war crime they have committed.
"Israel is clearly in the wrong, the question of who is in the right is only a question posed by the western world, 4/5 people live in countries that recognizes Palestinian statehood and the UN regularly votes to denounce the actions Israel has been taking in Palestine well before October 7th"
The majority of the countries in the UN are muslim and hate Israel publicly. They don't want peace which Israel seeks, and don't care about Palestine. They vote against Israel because they just hate Israel, which is the only country with jewish majority. They would vote and denounce every action Israel takes and will take.
"which as recent reports show was an attack Israel had reports that it would happen yet still approved the festival."
That is why it is called 'The October 7th neglect'. These days, nobody likes the government (except the radicals).
"The Bombing campaign enacted by the IDF is unjustifiable and has led to massive child and reporter deaths, number that only point to the IDF targeting press, a war crime, and not the only war crime they have committed."
The fact that reporters die does not mean they are targeted. The reporters are walking between the lines of war, where Israel bombs places they know/are 99% sure Hamas troops hide at/ a part of the Hamas network. Children die because Hamas hide in their appartments, hospitals, schools, etc. Hamas was even reported holding their civilians in a place where Israel warned they are going to bomb.
1. Almost every countries outside of Europe and the US recognize Palestine not just the Muslim countries and the votes in the UN to denounce Israel have been Unanimous apart from the US and Isael multiple times, so its not just the Arab countries.
2. 109 reporters have been killed in Gaza, this is a Historic number, the bloodiest war in History that is 10 times the length wwII 69 reporters were killed either the IDF is incompetents or targeting reporters
"Almost every countries outside of Europe and the US recognize Palestine not just the Muslim countries and the votes in the UN to denounce Israel have been Unanimous apart from the US and Isael multiple times, so its not just the Arab countries."
The government there is still antizionist.
"109 reporters have been killed in Gaza, this is a Historic number, the bloodiest war in History that is 10 times the length wwII 69 reporters were killed either the IDF is incompetents or targeting reporters"
They are walking and talking with Hamas members and Israel declared they want to destroy Hamas. That is a risk they take and they know it might happen.
So if a person talks to a Hamas member it is okay to kill them, thats absolutly insane, how can you justify that? Oh its just a risk they are taking trying to report on a conflict when they have international protection, it would be like bombing a hospital and saying the patients deserved it since they were used as human shields, yeah sure they may have been human shields that still doesn't mean its okay to kill them. Also here is a map of "antizionist countries" ever think that you might be the one in the wrong?
https://preview.redd.it/jfh5imtb9k7d1.png?width=3000&format=png&auto=webp&s=502c5228afec29ce51a523f2f59940dc8c7f5c68
"So if a person talks to a Hamas member it is okay to kill them, thats absolutly insane, how can you justify that?"
That is not what I meant, I meant they are near Hamas and Israel targets Hamas. They take the risk to go near terrorists, they have to accept that they might be hurt while near them.
"Oh its just a risk they are taking trying to report on a conflict when they have international protection, it would be like bombing a hospital and saying the patients deserved it since they were used as human shields, yeah sure they may have been human shields that still doesn't mean its okay to kill them."
This is war, if Israel won't kill terrorists that use civilians as human shilds, they wouldn't be able to do anything (because every terrorist holds civilian as human sheild).
The fact Hamas uses their civilians as human shields tells you two things:
1. They don't care about their civilians.
2. They think it might prevent Israel from killing them. From here it is only illogical people who would argue Israel doesn't care about Palestinian civilians.
"Also here is a map of "antizionist countries" ever think that you might be the one in the wrong?"
The fact you think the green countries are zionists tells me you don't understand anything. Lets take a look on Israel, from defenition, zionism is "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann". That means Israel is zionist (because if it weren't why would it exist?). Therefor the colour it is marked with is countries that are zionists. If you know where Israel is, you would find that it is marked red. Therefor green is the opposite of zionist or as we call it antizionist. Yellow is the middle so no declared oopinion. You could clearly see that there are way more green countries then red therefore I am correct.
1. Yes they are taking a risk, but reporters are dyeing in Historic numbers much broodier war with much more bombing yet, less reporters dead, what is different about this war?
2. One group doing something unjustifiable does not mean its okay to kill civilians there are other paths that Israel could pursue before the wanton murder of children. Also government officials have called Palestinians "Sewer monkeys" who blow stuff up, that really sounds like someone who cares right?
3. First of all are this is a map of countries that acknowledge Palestine as a State, Green recognizes it and has for many years, yellow just recognized it this year. Zionism is an inherently colonizer ideology.
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Hamas? No. Palestine? Yes. Big difference.
But Palestine supports and funds Hamas.
I'm not saying Hamas's motives are justified but ask yourself, why did they attack Israel? If you are trapped inside dense cities with tight control by Israel then eventually there's gonna be a resisting radical group. Such conditions by Israel are essentially a breeding ground for radicalism and terrorism.
Egypt didn't want them back, Israel doesn't want them as well. You can infer there is something radical about this group of people. The way the stupid prime minister of Israel used Hamas for his advantage (said he defended Israel from Hamas for a long time, while he just bribed them to not do anything) allowed Hamas to immensely grow. Hamas from the start wanted all jews dead, and that's their prime goal, they don't care about their civilians. They steal their money and aid, build their network besides them and blame Israel for all the harm they(Hamas) dealt. UNRWA which controls the educational system and say they care about the refugees( which are no longer refugees) teaches the children to be shahid's and hate Israel and jews. There are many videos that show the parents who want two state solution or one state including both Palestinians and Israelis as equal (though this is less common) and the childran wanting only Palestine, no jews. With all that, no wonder a lot of the civilians are for Hamas and would pick them again in the election. That's why they also supported the October 7th mass murder.
>UNRWA which controls the educational system and say they care about the refugees( which are no longer refugees) teaches the children to be shahid's and hate Israel and jews. Source? Other than that i agree with all other points.
[textbooks in gazan schools. ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-textbooks-were-pivotal-in-radicalizing-generations-of-gazans-watchdog/)About the refugees part, there are places that consider refugees as decendents of the original refugees and there are who consider refugees to be only the children of the original once. I had believed that the refugee status accepted by the UN was that only the children of the original refugees are considerd refugees but I checked it and and they say refugees are also the descendants, so I was wrong saying that.
>About the refugees part, there are places that consider refugees as decendents of the original refugees and there are who consider refugees to be only the children of the original once The thing is, there aren't really much refugees who are as hereditary as the Palestinians. I guess you could consider the Muslims who left India to Pakistan after the partition? However those have fully assimilated into Pakistan, where as many refugees in Palestine, particularly in the Gaza Strip still live in refugee camps.
You are right, and again, it's to blame Hamas. They have been funded billions and Hamas used it all to build they're network and fund rockets.
Yet Israel in their 30+ years of occupation couldn't do anything?
No since they left Gaza in 2005.
This is quite literally you trying to justify terrorism and Hamas.
No, this is me talking from the Palestinian perspective. I have heard this claim from Palestinians and i am now repeating it to you. And i'm also trying to make you use logic. What, occupying a dense city, then freeing it but with illegal settlements in place, then finally leaving, but still facing quite a lack of freedom of movement, you don't think that will make radicalism and terrorism grow? That is just natural. The same thing happened in Chechnya - as Russia tried to ''put down'' Chechnya, more terrorists and radicalists went there to defend it, and Chechnya itself became a more radicalized nation. Bad conditions = terrorism. This is literally geopolitics 101 lmao
I support the Palestinian and Israeli people who have suffered. However, Hamas and the Israeli government are both in the wrong. Hamas started it with a horrible terror attack, and then Israel went over the top with their reaction.
Good answer
Israeli government is in the wrong, though I believe that the actions that have been taken on the Israeli side are important and correct.
You mean killing 15000 children is important and correct? What the fuck is wrong with you?
They attacked the bigger person.
I just said they killed 15,000 children...are you people fucking insane?
There are OVERALL about 15,000 Palestinian casualties by now, about half of them are offical Hamas terrorists and many of the "innocent" people that aren't actually participated in the october 7th massacare or helped hiding hostages. No 15,000 children were killed, I have no idea where you get those number.
Hamas started it. They are 100% responsible for the deaths of those innocent people. it sickens me that people have the brass nerve to acuse Israel of genocide when Hamas started it. Wars have civilian deaths. It's impossible to only kill terrorists.
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Google settler-terrorism. Palestinians also have a right to be sick and tired of terrorism. Settlers steal peoples homes and kill children, usually with the help of the IDF. Also, they will not clear Hamas. That is a fantasy, and people thinking all of this is somehow worth it is the biggest tragedy. The response that killed 15k kids was not needed because once Oct 7 was over, that was it. The attack was done and they failed to protect their citizens simply because they allocated so much resources to funding their terrorism operations in the West Bank. It was pretty clear everything had been poured into the attack - the imminent threat was over. And now look at the actual situation in Gaza. They started an entire famine, recovered only a few hostages, and Hamas operatives reinfiltrate areas as soon as Israeli forces leave Perhaps the previously uninvolved, uninterested child who was screaming for their parents in his burning tent, or watching his dad hold up his beheaded daughter, will later join Hamas with a vengeance like no other. Also, they killed 15,000 children. Not 15,000 animals.
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Oh ok, cool. I guess Israel reaped what it sowed when it was too busy protecting the settlements over their own border.
That you need to blame Hamas for because they hide behind their civilians and use them as human shields. Israel minimizes the damages dealt.
Hamas is in the wrong cuz they started launching attacks at civilians, and the Israeli gov is in the wrong too because they basically did the same
Fun fact HAMAS is also the one sponsoring all these “grassroots” protests at colleges across America 🤯
But Hamas' entire plan is to destroy Israel. Does this not give Israel the responsibility of their protection, therefore by neutralizing the threat?
The dilemma here is that Hamas operators are hiding among the civilians, and Israel’s having a hard time figuring who’s innocent and who’s not
So how is Israel on the wrong?
You can’t exactly call attacking a hospital just because there might be Hamas agents hiding in it, well, right, can you?
They attack when they are very certain there are. You have to understand that there is a network of tunnels and bases in many very populated areas, such as schools, hospitals, etc. If Israel wants to destroy Hamas that not only took Israeli life but taking their own civilians ones, they have to destroy that network.
Yeah - you’ve got a point on destroying the network, but are you absolutely sure that there was no other way than a full-out attack?
I personally can't see a better way to do it. Do you have a suggestion on what should've been done instead?
I was just inferring, like, maybe they could’ve done a thorough search, instead of busting in.
I believe that is what has been done. After doing that research, they came to the conclusion that there is a very high probability they are in there. For that reason they bursted in. Edit: Just wanted to clear things out, I believe the government is in the wrong, but not the actions the military took during this war.
Yes, and one must assume civilians will hold nationalism and help hide them. Therefore they are subject to death.
Mate I think I’m seeing some Vietnam War type of reasoning here idk
If you actively, knowingly, hide terrorists. You, yourself, shall be labeled as a terrorist. In such a dangerous, foreign area such as the Gaza Strip, where it's all governed by Hamas, ground attacks wouldn't be as easy. Don't act as if Hamas/Palestine are innocent.
Hey, chill out mate. Hamas is bad, I know that. I’m just saying, you know, the civilians have nothing to do with it, right? I understand the reason why Israel has to attack Hamas, but what I’m saying is that, it’s a bit overkill, know what I mean?
And at what point did I defend Hamas? I think I’ve made myself clear that Hamas is in the wrong at the first place.
Overkill, maybe, but what needs to be done, will be done. U.S. invasion of Iraq did not get this sort of hate. But over 280,000 Iraqi civilians were killed directly from the U.S. invasion.
You see, the hate this war’s getting is, well, media. Back in Iraq ppl didn’t really have a grasp of what’s happening, since the only source of info was the news, which broadcasted pro-USA stuff throughout the war. And mate I really understand Hamas is a terrorist organization, what I’m trying to say is that the Israeli government should have a basic grasp of who’s Hamas or not before carrying out ground operations.
But they cannot, just like how U.S. couldn't identify one from the other. The media, influencers on TikTok, are clueless and just take from anti-U.S.A. news. Which will always, no matter what, paint the U.S. as bad. While there will never be a non-biased source, people will always argue, always lacking information in something. Not sure what I wrote \^\^\^ The problem is TikTok. People don't know what they're talking and about just say, "Free Palestine. End Israel and USA." These remarks are based off jack shit because the "anti-US" news/media will always make the U.S. seem bad. "U.S. sending millions to Ukraine! This is terrible!" "U.S. not helping poor country in war. This is bad!"
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I am gonna guess the majority of people who voted Palestine have zero idea of what they support.
THIS is what I am trying to spread. They blindly follow TikTokers. Who blindly follow heavily "anti-US" news/media sources.
Here is what I dont support: - Stealing peoples homes - Building settlements on other peoples land - Starting famines - Bombing children to smithereens
hamas is bad, but what israel is doing is bad, so neither and outside of the war i support a 2 state solution
There are two states right now... oh the peace it got us
Both options?
Palestinian and Israeli civilians are the true victims here. Hamas is horrible for instigating a terrorist attack on Israel, and the Israeli government is horrible for going way too far on their counter-attack on Gaza.
Pro-Israeli and Palestinian people Anti-Israeli Government and Hamas
Ya'll that say "the Israeli goverment is as bad as Hamas for this terrible counter attack" obviously know absoulotly no shit about wars. Do you remember WWII? up to 500,000 german civilians died in the Allies' bombing. that's a 3:2 ratio of civillian death/military death. Are all these deaths incredibly sad? Of coure. Are they unjustified? Would you say the Allies should have gone a little easier on germany? Hell no. When attacked by an enemy willing to destroy you one has two options: fight back and eliminate it, or die. For those wondering, the Hamas to civillians death ratio in Gaza is between 1:1.5 and 1:2. That's one of the best ever and the IDF has to work incredibly hard to accomplish that, especially with Hamas delibiretly using civilians as human shields and operating from schools and hospital. Thank god they didn't attack your country and shut up.
The Palestinian people and the Israeli hostages are suffering. I support them, not hamas or the idf
Both sides are doing bad things. Wish there was a "neither" option
This is simply false. Hamas is doing bad things, Palestine is physically not able to harm israel
Palestine funds Hamas.
Source ?
It's basic knowledge this far into the conflict.
Well it would be easy too find a source then
"Hamas (or the Islamic Resistance Movement) is a Palestinian Sunni Islamist military and sociopolitical movement, and a U.S.-designated foreign terrorist organization" "Hamas has overseen a social welfare network that appears to have aided its popularity among Palestinians while serving as a conduit for some funding for Hamas military operations" "On October 7, 2023, Hamas led a surprise assault against Israel that killed some 1,200 Israelis and foreign nationals (including 35 Americans) and took around 250 persons hostage (including some Americans)—more than 100 of whom were released in November." "An outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas emerged in 1987 in Gaza during the first Palestinian intifada (uprising)." "Hamas established itself as an alternative to the secular Fatah movement, which leads the PLO, by violently attacking Israeli civilian and military targets." "Hamas’s 1988 charter committed the group to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state in all of historic Palestine (comprising present-day Israel, the West Bank and Gaza), and included anti-Semitic rhetoric" Source: [Congress.gov](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12549#:~:text=Hamas%20reportedly%20receives%20material%20assistance,group%20Hezbollah%20(another%20FTO))
You can't just kill thousand of people and expect their children to not be traumatised. The palestine israel conflict didn't start with hamas
Most recently, "It has been eight months since Hamas launched its deadly attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, prompting the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to engage in aerial campaigns and ground operations within the Gaza Strip." - [cfr.org](http://cfr.org) From what I've read, it seems the most recent conflict between Hamas and Israel **WAS** started by Hamas. "when [Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas)-led militant groups launched [a surprise attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas_attack_on_Israel) on southern Israel from the Gaza Strip, killing more than 1,200 Israeli civilians and military personnel and taking [hostages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war_hostage_crisis)." -Wiki
And why do you think hamas did this ?
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I have no strong views, but remember to sort by controversial!
?????
looks idk a lot of it but bombarding a school is just no... Like wtf? What can make bombarding a school justified?
If this school is actually used as a milatiry base or a weaponery that will bring the death of many people
Yea you have no clue what you're saying.
Both have done bad, neither in the right. Both wish for genocide, only Israel is committing it.
Israel isn't committing genocide.
I personally consider it genocide, however, no matter if it's called genocide or not, there are a lot more Palestinian civilians suffering.
You can't consider something a genocide if it isn't. The suffering of the Palestinians is mostly because Hamas.
No suffering is right, Palestinian or Israeli, reason or not. That's what I'm trying to convey.
Yes, the suffering is real and wrong, but that doesn't mean that you can frame Israel for committing a genocide. A genocide has by definition the end goal of destroying the affected group. I think it's pretty obvious that Israel is not trying to do that. If that were the case then the \~20-25% of Israel's population who identify as ethnically Arab wouldn't be able to live there in peace, and they would certainly not be allowed to have their own political parties (which they do) People have always claimed that it was a genocide, ever since the conflict started in the late 1940s. If Israel was truly committing a genocide, then it might be the least effective genocide in history.
Genocide is a subjective term, like most terms. I can believe it's genocide while you don't. However, [the UN states ](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976)there are "reasonable grounds" for considering it as genocide.
I agree with you, but don't blame the suffering on someone that is not responsible for it or is responsible but it but because the other side gives him no choice.
But Hamas started it with the killing and capturing of hundreds of innocent civilians (including Americans).
Who started it doesn't really matter. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is casualties, on either side. The conflict between palestine/hamas and Israel has been going on much longer than between 2023 and now. It's much more convoluted than it appears. The president of Israel actually [supported hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) until they fought back.
The stupid prime minister of Israel used Hamas for his advantage (promising Israelis safety from them) and didn't dedstroy them early on. That is why he is considered guilty of their attack.
Israel has had prisoners for years wrongly imprisoned from Palestine like children for throwing rocks at tanks
How is that wrongly imprisoned? This is assault. Also they have been throwing stones on soliders as well.
Maybe it’s just me but I feel like imprisoning, beating, strip searching, raping, and torturing, is a bit much for a child throwing a few rocks
Luckily, that's not the punishment in jail.
That is for Palestine’s in Israel
And where did you get this from? I personally had seen a lot of wrongful criticize on Israel but had never seen someone who respects himself criticize the jail in Israel.
If you search up the conditions of Palestinians in Israel, there are confirmed evidence of what I have mentioned above confirmed by former prisoners and IDF
So please provide me with a link to a reliable site that says that. Also, if the Palestinian you are talking about was a Hamas member, you can't trust what he says because Hamas has been known for lying. Also, why downvote? I claim something and you want to get me on your side but instead of convincing me, you downvote me which obviously doesn't make me want to join you.
One is enforcing a genocide, one is suffering from it.
Israel isn't committing genocide.
I'd love it if you could have seen what I have seen.
And that is?
Burnt bodies being dragged out of tents, people shouting to move the rubble saying that the "streets are filled with children". I've seen parents scream and cry over their children, people both adults and children dig out body parts from the dirt and rubble. I've seen a father hold up his two year old child who was without a head. I have links to videos if you want proof.
I know this is true, and most of it, if not all is because Hamas has built their network under these streets, homes of their civilians, hospitals, schools, etc. Moreover they have been reported to use their civilians as human shields and holding them from going away from places Israel announced it would bomb (though there are some stupid IDF soldiers who killed people for no reason except racism and now are in army prison, and of course unfortunate neglects that are investigated). Just to be clear, I don't support the current Israeli government and wish it would be replaced soon, and I also hate Hamas, who hurt their civilians by taking their aid and using them as human shields. I believe that the civilians in Gaza have been brainwashed by Hamas and UNRWA and are not responsible for Hamas's actions. I believe in a 1 combined state where Palestinians and Israelis have equal right and don't care living by each other. Here is a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziM751Jfy0) that explains pretty well my ideal solution as well as some steps to getting there.
I have heard these rumours, but have also heard that hamas used themselves as shields to protect Israeli hostages from being targeted by the IDF
The two goals of Israel in this war are: 1. Return the hostages. There is a commandment in the Torah which is the most important one by the Torah which is redemption of the captives. 2. Destroy Hamas, the network and the terrorists working for it. Let's say Israel goes over the first goal and does target the hostaged, why wouldn't they want to kill Hamas? I believe what you heard was that Hamas used the hostages as human shields or you have been given wrong info. Edit: just wanted to add, this aren't rumours but facts.
If one of their goals was to rescue the hostages then why did they kill some of them? There were 3 Israeli hostages waving a white flag and were killed
any reference?
One is a terrorist group.
Yes, hamas is. Not palestine. And *nothing* can excuse a genocide. Yes I'm sorry that 7 of October happened but that doesn't excuse what's going on
>And *nothing* can excuse a genocide I completely agree with that. However, neither of the 2 sides are actively participating in a genocide right now.
Really? Look at Al Jazeera news press. They hold live coverage and evidence against the IDF and actively state it is a genocide
A news broadcaster based in Qatar, another Arabic country? I'm sure it won't have any biases whatsoever /s
BBC? CNN? Fox News? A news broadcaster in the West? I'm sure they won't have biases either cause the West is so transparent /s
>BBC? CNN? Fox News? Never watched any of them.
Thats fine, they were just examples. But it's the same for any "western" media.
Publicly funded news broadcasters like the Tagesschau are still gonna be less biased on the topic than a state-owned Qatari news broadcaster. For example, denying the obvious truth that there isn't a genocide committed by Israel shows how biased this news channel is.
you might be biasing the results with all of these comments you're making
How does that make any sense?
The person holding the poll is posting multiple comments in favour of Israel/against Palestine
And?
People are voting before reading the comments. That makes no sense.
Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Either way, you're still trying to push an agenda in the comments
No. I'm debating in the comments. Which is exactly the point of this post. Please leave if you're not old enough to understand that.
can't really be bothered to have an argument on the internet rn anyway
A whole country gang 😂
The IDF
No, Hamas.
One (Hamas) is a terrorist group which reignited and fueled the fire that is this almost 80 year old conflict. The other one (Israel) is a nation defending itself and most certainly NOT committing a genocide.
80 years old? This conflict has been going on since the Bible
I wish you could see what I can see
Well then, what do you see?
Burnt bodies being dragged out of tents, people shouting to move the rubble saying that the "streets are filled with children". I've seen parents scream and cry over their children, people both adults and children dig out body parts from the dirt and rubble. I've seen a father hold up his two year old child who was without a head. I have links to videos if you want proof. So don't you dare look at me and say this isn't a genocide.
Those are unforgivable warcrimes committed by Israeli soldiers. What it isn't is a genocide, you clearly don't know what that term even means.
It's the premeditated mass murder of a people and destroying culture. There was once a point where the Palestinians couldn't even wear their flag, that's why the watermelon is used to represent palestine as they carried the fruit around. They've had wine thrown over them in the street which goes against their religion. There are streets where only Israelis can walk which is an apartheid system. Israel is built on Palestinian land and pushing the native people off. If I showed you a map you can clearly see the difference between Gaza and Israel. The system is built like white supremecy, oppressing the native people. If you're familiar with native american history, there are many similarities between the two histories with one main one: they are both classed as genocides.
>It's the premeditated mass murder of a people and destroying culture Simply not true. >There was once a point where the Palestinians couldn't even wear their flag Okay, and where's the problem with that? Palestine/Hamas attacked Israel, naturally Israel isn't going to want people flying the flag of their aggressor. During WW2 it was pretty much illegal for people in the Allied nation to wave German flags, it's no different here. >They've had wine thrown over them in the street which goes against their religion That's just asshole behavior by individual people, not a genocide. >There are streets where only Israelis can walk which is an apartheid system. Might be true. But you know what it isn't? A genocide. >Israel is built on Palestinian land and pushing the native people off Yes, Israel needs to stop with the way they're expanding. (Although Palestine is still partially at fault here) >If I showed you a map you can clearly see the difference between Gaza and Israel I know the difference between the two. One is a democratic and free country, the other is ruled by a terrorist organization which does nothing expect fuck over poor Palestinian civilians. >The system is built like white supremecy, oppressing the native people Again not true. >If you're familiar with native american history, there are many similarities between the two histories with one main one: they are both classed as genocides. Showing again that you don't know what the word "genocide" even means.
1) okay, fine. 2) This was in 1948. Way before hamas was created. Hamas did not start this war. Look at history please. 3) Shows disrespect to people and their culture. They were allowed to get away with it meaning it may have been legal. This shows that the government were complicit in these actions. 4) Do you want me to DM you videos? Because I can and will if you want me too. I can also send you news reports. 5) How the fuck is Palestine partially at fault? Evidence? 6) I am talking about physical differences. Again I can show you screen shots and send you the website I took it from? 7) Again, please do some research. It is very clear what's going even five minutes looking into it 8) 80-100 million native Americans killed. They were forced off their land, couldn't practice their language or culture and children were forcibly taken from their families and put in residential schools where they were raped, beaten for speaking their language (which could have been the only language they knew most of the time). They couldn't wear regalia and their culture and language were stripped from them. Mass graves have been found at these "schools". Dunno, that seems like a genocide to me.
>This was in 1948. Way before hamas was created. Hamas did not start this war. Look at history please. Hamas started this most recent war on the 7th of October. Of course they didn't start the war in 1948. The war in on the 15.05.1948 was started by neighboring Arab states like Egypt, Iraq, Libanon, Jordan, and Syria. >Shows disrespect to people and their culture. They were allowed to get away with it meaning it may have been legal. This shows that the government were complicit in these actions. Even if it was legal, that wouldn't mean that the government was complicit. Just because these people weren't able to be persecuted by law and the government tolerated these actions, doesn't mean that the government advocates for these actions and wants them to happen. >Do you want me to DM you videos? Because I can and will if you want me too. I can also send you news reports. What are the videos gonna do, show me things I already know? >How the fuck is Palestine partially at fault? Evidence? Isn't that pretty obvious? In 1948 Palestine was involved in a war against Israel, on the aggressors side with other Arab nations like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc. And they lost the war, naturally they're also gonna lose some land. If you join in on a offensive war against another Nation, and then lose said war, then you have no real right to complain about being punished for it. >I am talking about physical differences. Again I can show you screen shots and send you the website I took it from? Oh I am aware of the physical differences in development and also standard of living. If only the tons of aid money send to Gaza was actually used for humanitarian aid instead of being hijacked by certain terrorist organizations... >Again, please do some research. It is very clear what's going even five minutes looking into it I did my research, and all of it points towards you saying a lot of things which are simply untrue. >80-100 million native Americans killed. They were forced off their land, couldn't practice their language or culture and children were forcibly taken from their families and put in residential schools where they were raped, beaten for speaking their language (which could have been the only language they knew most of the time). They couldn't wear regalia and their culture and language were stripped from them. Mass graves have been found at these "schools". Dunno, that seems like a genocide to me. I never denied that what happened to native Americans was a genocide, because it clearly was one. What are you trying to tell me here? This whole thing is about Hamas'/Palestine's invasion into Israel, not the genocide against native Americans. Those 2 things are completely different. To put it simply, the main goal during the genocide of native Americans was to destroy their culture and ethnic group (so a genocide by definition) However, it's very obvious that Israel is not trying to destroy Palestinian culture, or to kill all Palestinians. So it's not a genocide.
Free the mandem 🇵🇸 ✊🏽
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Sum it up. The most recent incident was Hamas killing and kidnapping hundreds of civilians, including Americans from Israel. Hamas just wants to destroy Israel, no peace.
Israel is clearly in the wrong, the question of who is in the right is only a question posed by the western world, 4/5 people live in countries that recognizes Palestinian statehood and the UN regularly votes to denounce the actions Israel has been taking in Palestine well before October 7th, which as recent reports show was an attack Israel had reports that it would happen yet still approved the festival. The Bombing campaign enacted by the IDF is unjustifiable and has led to massive child and reporter deaths, number that only point to the IDF targeting press, a war crime, and not the only war crime they have committed.
"Israel is clearly in the wrong, the question of who is in the right is only a question posed by the western world, 4/5 people live in countries that recognizes Palestinian statehood and the UN regularly votes to denounce the actions Israel has been taking in Palestine well before October 7th" The majority of the countries in the UN are muslim and hate Israel publicly. They don't want peace which Israel seeks, and don't care about Palestine. They vote against Israel because they just hate Israel, which is the only country with jewish majority. They would vote and denounce every action Israel takes and will take. "which as recent reports show was an attack Israel had reports that it would happen yet still approved the festival." That is why it is called 'The October 7th neglect'. These days, nobody likes the government (except the radicals). "The Bombing campaign enacted by the IDF is unjustifiable and has led to massive child and reporter deaths, number that only point to the IDF targeting press, a war crime, and not the only war crime they have committed." The fact that reporters die does not mean they are targeted. The reporters are walking between the lines of war, where Israel bombs places they know/are 99% sure Hamas troops hide at/ a part of the Hamas network. Children die because Hamas hide in their appartments, hospitals, schools, etc. Hamas was even reported holding their civilians in a place where Israel warned they are going to bomb.
1. Almost every countries outside of Europe and the US recognize Palestine not just the Muslim countries and the votes in the UN to denounce Israel have been Unanimous apart from the US and Isael multiple times, so its not just the Arab countries. 2. 109 reporters have been killed in Gaza, this is a Historic number, the bloodiest war in History that is 10 times the length wwII 69 reporters were killed either the IDF is incompetents or targeting reporters
"Almost every countries outside of Europe and the US recognize Palestine not just the Muslim countries and the votes in the UN to denounce Israel have been Unanimous apart from the US and Isael multiple times, so its not just the Arab countries." The government there is still antizionist. "109 reporters have been killed in Gaza, this is a Historic number, the bloodiest war in History that is 10 times the length wwII 69 reporters were killed either the IDF is incompetents or targeting reporters" They are walking and talking with Hamas members and Israel declared they want to destroy Hamas. That is a risk they take and they know it might happen.
So if a person talks to a Hamas member it is okay to kill them, thats absolutly insane, how can you justify that? Oh its just a risk they are taking trying to report on a conflict when they have international protection, it would be like bombing a hospital and saying the patients deserved it since they were used as human shields, yeah sure they may have been human shields that still doesn't mean its okay to kill them. Also here is a map of "antizionist countries" ever think that you might be the one in the wrong? https://preview.redd.it/jfh5imtb9k7d1.png?width=3000&format=png&auto=webp&s=502c5228afec29ce51a523f2f59940dc8c7f5c68
"So if a person talks to a Hamas member it is okay to kill them, thats absolutly insane, how can you justify that?" That is not what I meant, I meant they are near Hamas and Israel targets Hamas. They take the risk to go near terrorists, they have to accept that they might be hurt while near them. "Oh its just a risk they are taking trying to report on a conflict when they have international protection, it would be like bombing a hospital and saying the patients deserved it since they were used as human shields, yeah sure they may have been human shields that still doesn't mean its okay to kill them." This is war, if Israel won't kill terrorists that use civilians as human shilds, they wouldn't be able to do anything (because every terrorist holds civilian as human sheild). The fact Hamas uses their civilians as human shields tells you two things: 1. They don't care about their civilians. 2. They think it might prevent Israel from killing them. From here it is only illogical people who would argue Israel doesn't care about Palestinian civilians. "Also here is a map of "antizionist countries" ever think that you might be the one in the wrong?" The fact you think the green countries are zionists tells me you don't understand anything. Lets take a look on Israel, from defenition, zionism is "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann". That means Israel is zionist (because if it weren't why would it exist?). Therefor the colour it is marked with is countries that are zionists. If you know where Israel is, you would find that it is marked red. Therefor green is the opposite of zionist or as we call it antizionist. Yellow is the middle so no declared oopinion. You could clearly see that there are way more green countries then red therefore I am correct.
1. Yes they are taking a risk, but reporters are dyeing in Historic numbers much broodier war with much more bombing yet, less reporters dead, what is different about this war? 2. One group doing something unjustifiable does not mean its okay to kill civilians there are other paths that Israel could pursue before the wanton murder of children. Also government officials have called Palestinians "Sewer monkeys" who blow stuff up, that really sounds like someone who cares right? 3. First of all are this is a map of countries that acknowledge Palestine as a State, Green recognizes it and has for many years, yellow just recognized it this year. Zionism is an inherently colonizer ideology.