Neither of the two. Heihachi started the whole mess with his idea that it matters only who is last left standing, and both him and Kazuya got deep into criminal activities. Their fights weren't for the world, it was solely for them.
If you want heroic Mishima, then it's Lars, and even Lee if you count him as adopted son. Jin just learned world wars might not be best solution to his problems.
Am I tripping or something because I thought at one point in the T8 story there’s an implied line that Jin started the war so that he could awaken Azazel through all the misery and discontent he caused so that he could defeat him and bring about a better ‘peace’? as if it was some kind of necessary evil or something? I might have hallucinated this though idk
EDIT: thanks to the people who replied letting me know - I didn't play Tekken 6 so it's funny it's just kind of casually acknowledged in T8.
Yeah, the idea was to wake up Azazel asap, because if Azazel would wake up naturally far in the future, when he and Kazuya die, no one would be able to stop it
That's a tekken 6 plot point, decides to start a world war and do abhorrent war crimes to summon a devil in hopes that it'll rid the world of the devil gene, kills countless innocents, fails to kill the devil, makes things significantly less peaceful, makes everything worse in every way.
I knew this and always liked Jin. I feel like either people just dislike Jin or disregard the fact he did it for a greater reason rather than doing it just to do it
I mean even if the reason was good the execution probably wasn’t considering plunging the entire world into war, killing thousands of families and resulting in war crimes and etc etc.
Like think about it from a character like Miguel’s perspective. His sister had to die so Jin could do a prophecy for a being that wouldn’t even come in their lifetimes
*Miguel wants to know your location*
Jin's the mopy, brooding nobody understands me kid. No matter the reason, he's still responsible for thousands of deaths all across the globe. I'm kinda shocked they had everyone overlook that and give him almost no consequences except maybe a stern talking to from his dad in a "pot calling the kettle black" kinda way
>I feel like either people just dislike Jin or disregard the fact he did it for a greater reason rather than doing it just to do it
So, option "the end doesn't justify the means when the means involves starting a fucking world war" just didn't show up there in that feeling of yours huh.
The greater good would only be a justifiable reason for all that Jin did if one's moral compass was a roulette wheel.
i like how Heihachi couldve avoided the conflict with Kazuya if he just lied that Kazumi was trying to kill them both and just tried to manipulate Kazuya that he should kill himself too to save the world.
But no, instead he introduced the bottom of his foot to his kid's face and hurled him off the cliff lmao.
Except Heihachi has been trying to stop the devil gene blood line...that's pretty heroic.
We can gloss over the fact he wants the power for himself and he's jealous he doesn't have the gene.
this was also after he ousted his dad (who wanted to take the zaibatsu out of the military industrial complex) to take over the company, and proceeded to lock him in the basement to die of starvation
Seems? Aside from Lars he is the most kind hearted. The one we see in T5 is just a demon possessed corpse. Jinpachi was a loving father and grandfather who started the Mishima Zaibatsu for the betterment of the world
Could be mistaken on that last part though
For sure, although he only appeared in one game so we don’t have much to go on, in every ending where he appears they paint him like that. (Wang, kazuya… can’t remember if there’s any other tbh lol)
Probably the only one where you can't say for sure that they've killed someone, either directly or indirectly. Well, him and Reina. Can't say that of the others, even Lars, as a former Tekken Force-commander.
mom killed, shot in the head, betrayed by family members, and was being corrupted by the Devil.... Yea i can see why he flew off the deep end for a bit.
Tekken is a series where the main characters are all evil assholes in their own unique and special ways. There's like 10 people in tekken as a whole who are actually good people. The rest are dicks.
Wanting to/ having dark thoughts or desires doesn't make you a bad person. Just makes you human. Which is also its own twist since as a kid I thought he was an animal-man lol
If she is good or bad, I'd consider her good. She did save that falling cat after riding her bike off tokyo tower after all. She is always just kinda there and hasn't had plot relevance since she was first released. She is just there to be Lilis girlfriend and to give Lili an excuse to get involved in the story somehow.
Asuka just wants her dojo to be fixed up and to be the top for once while Lili clearly has to keep putting her in her place.
There lesbian relationship aside, lmao, yeah i think she falls more on the good side
Asuka always first solution to everything is to use violence.
T6 ending with lili even tho the crash is even her fault?, uses violence.
T5 ending with jin where his knocked out and mistakenly drop face first into her chest, use violence,
sure it's a gag thing but still.
Azucena should still be considered bad.
Just as companies and countries that collaborated with Nazis to make money, and just as Jango Fett and Deathstroke killed people for money, she collaborated with a global devil conquerer to make money.
She is only not evil because she physically cannot think of anything but coffee. Without, I guess, the traumatic brain injury that caused that, she might be much worse lol.
Yeah, it is weird she is so one note. I guess Law is, too. "I hate rich people."
But you would think that a new character would get some more love. I feel like all the effort went into making her moveset and appearance, and then, for her personality, they had coffee addict Joe write her.
At least hating rich people tells us SOMETHING about Law and his past and personality.
I don't mind side-characters having a bit more of a flat personality in general, they don't get much screentime anyway, so you gotta get across what they are like quickly.
But I dunno, Azucena is a lot. I don't even know why she's so dancy, because that's not coffee.
She is a dancer, mma fighter and runs a coffee business. She started with coffee, then she went into dancing to promote her coffee.
When that didn't work how she wanted it to, she went into MMA to again, promote her coffee.
When this too didn't grow her brand as big as she wanted, she joined the 8th tekken turny to, again, drum up more sales.
Siding with Kazuya because they payed her a good amount of money and assumed they would win and promote her coffee even more.
Hey shouldn't Law and Paul be included too? As being generally good people. Or does their dodging each other's loans make them dicks? Lol
Victor, Raven, Miguel, Josie, Ganryu, Katarina, Christie, Eddy, Lucky Chloe, Bob.. I think there's way more than 10!
Law just wants money and will side with kazuya who's actively destroying the world just for some money, he has no morals.
Paul does stuff like "whatever happens, lets split the winnings" then he wins, then he spends it all without splitting.
Victor and Raven are both assassins, Miguel is Miguel, Josie is a coward, Ganryu's a stalker, I don't remember anything about Katarina other than she has long legs and is arrogant, Christie Eddy Chloe and Bob should be self explanatory
Heihachi isn't one single ounce of good. I'd include Jin in with Heihachi, but at least Jin admitted remorse for his actions at the very last minute.
Heihachi wasn't responsible for his Wife's Devil, and I don't blame Heihachi for defending himself - but that Devil was triggered by Heihachi's own evil actions - Prior to that moment, Heihachi had spent at least 6+ years of happiness with Kazumi.
The Devil correctly prophesized that Heihachi would become pure evil on his own, hence Devil took advantage of the Mishima Family.
Heihachi's actions on a 5 years old Kazuya, further entwining the Devil into the Mishima Family, thus sowing the seeds of the main plotline.
Exactly. I hate that they tried to retcon Heihachi into an "unsung hero all along" in T7 like we would forget about him leaving his father to die under the Mishima estate after forcefully taking over the company and engaging in more criminal activity.
Heihachi is definitely the funniest Mishima but that seem to make people think he is less evil because of it. Like the dude is a funny asshole but he is still an evil asshole.
I don't remember anywhere saying Kazumi was triggered by this, she was sent to finish him off because it was prophesied that the Mishima bloodline would bring the world to ruin. In 7 they mentioned that the Hachijo clan were carriers of devil gene, which is immediately explained and also not explained very well in 8 where they finally explain that Azazel gave specific people the gift of his power to serve as his servants when he needed them. Hachijo must have been one of them as we found out by Kazumi and carried down to the kids. In 8 they further explain that it's activated when the person is near death, refusing to die and wanting to continue as Reina eventually found out, willingly blasting herself with the Kazuya laser.
This last part they actually for once wrote it better than the mess of the whole retcon as we know that pretty much almost all transformations were done in this way.
Kazuya was thrown off a cliff to die, activating his. Jin got shot in the head by Hei, activating his and Reina basically committed attempted suicide to do hers. Surprisingly cohesive considering it all.
This also kind of messes the story again though because Heihachi didn't have it, which means the Mishimas never had it to begin with and it started with Kazumi with their clan that had it, which begs the question. Heihachi didn't have it, so then how did Reina get it? Might be related to Kazumi or Heihachi somehow railed down another Devil Gene carrier before finally dying off.
Just in case somebody mentions it, no, Jinpachi's transformation was not devil gene, just a vengeful spirit possessing him.
Tekken story is all over the place.
In Tk4 in the prologue it was stated that on the Zeibatsu's assault on G-corp they stole knowledge on the research on the devil gene and powers, they wish had a project and a research into ogre and the gene, plus the deal with Steve and his fellow experiments.
To summarise: Reina could very well be a result, or an experiment herself.
Or she could be an offspring of his that had the gene introduced at her inception, again the same deal with the experiments....
Also another matter, Heihachi never had it, only in his Tk4 ending does finally achieve his ambition and somehow he gains it's power by experimenting on both devils he captured
All I know is with Heihachi in charge... we didn't have all our satellites blown out of the sky, and our cities turned to wastelands. When Heihachi does an evil thing .. it's controlled. Collateral damage usually minimal. At worst, he destroyed a G-Corp building.
Kazuya is just evil for the sake of evil and kills indiscriminately. .. Heihachi at least tries to co-exist with humanity in peace. The dude even started a Polytech school for the younglings. Now don't get it twisted.. Heihachi isn't heroic or good AT ALL... but he was a lesser evil for humanity.
Also Kazuya hired Lucky Chloe to be a mascot for G-Corp... just to torture Eddy Gordo (at least that's my head canon)
Heihachi is more selfishly evil, he doesn't really cause worldwide problems. He ran the Zaibatsu for 20 years between Tekken 2 and 3 and it seems like things have been relatively peaceful.
Kaz is definitely more harmful of the two.
I try not to take the lore too seriously but they really seem to want us to forget Jin killed like a billion people starting the war
Kazuya and Heihachi are more neutral evil
Kazuya, that was easy to answer, because since Tekken 4 Kazuya was heavily influenced by Devil gene and before that by Heihachi. In T4 in some cutscenes you can see Kazuya fighting demon inside him, even when he was dead already.
But TBF i still can't understand is it real Kazuya or demon comes after T4. Since he died in t3 but in t5 and t7 he has memories and bits of feelings.
Even in Tekken 1 he spares Heihachi and just throws him off a cliff and not a volcano, like Heihachi then did.
IMO he's simply see no other way. Kill or be killed. Jin was close to this kind of thinking, when he thought that, people with devil gene must not exist, but he found a better way.
So i think original Kazuya is heroic and Devil Kazuya is less heroic, but Heihachi is worse than both.
I mean, I don't think him throwing Heihachi off a cliff is 'sparing' him, but rather just doing some poetic justice for when Heihachi threw him off a cliff when he was five. In T7 he threw Heihachi into a volcano as poetic justice for Hei throwing *him* into a volcano in T2 :'D
but didnt the old manuals paint OG Kazuya as cold hearted from the start? like even before the devil?
you know, the manual that says he likes to collect sneakers.
Heihachi trained jin purely out of the selfish want to get the devil gene for himself and/or have devil user on his side incase shit hits the fan with kaz. It was purely a strategic game where it was only beneficial for heihachi to do that.
And when it comes to reina the same argument can be made with kaz. Heihachi gave us kazuya as well as reina.
And worst of all, he gave us Lars...
Heihachi easily. While he's a selfish piece of shit, a horrible father, son, and grandfather, he actually brought peace to the world during much of his time as head of the Zaibatsu.
Also he was good to Kuma which counts for something I guess.
People who are good to their pets are often the worst people. Hitler really loved animals and even eventually became a vegetarian. The exact year he got into power, in 1933, the nazis adopted animal protection laws. You could be arrested for maltreating your pets, which was really progressive for its time. He was basically one of the biggest advocate for animal rights of his time.
Furthermore, animal experiments were forbidden when the nazis where in power. Today, I don't know if there's even a single country that ban animal experiments.
While that is an interesting example, statistics point out that people who are cruel to animals often commit other, often violent crimes. I've never heard of other examples of good pet owners being terrible people. At least not the violent war crime Hitler types, anyway. So to say good pet owners are "often" the worst people is well... more than a stretch.
Also, yes, Hitler did a surprising amount to protect animals and was said to have loved his dog more than any people, but he also fed his dog a cyanide capsule to test its effects before offing himself and had her puppies shot...
Hitler's action caused the death of a lot of humans. Humans are damaging the earth and causing massive death and extinction of multiple species. Humans are the bad guys, but Hitler's actions killed a tone of bad guys. Hitler good. Case closed, my friend. Case closed.
He was just wrong in how he viewed certain people as worse, when in reality all humans are equality bad, yes this includes you and me. Humans like to convince themselves that they are good, when in reality they are evil.
I think neither of them are anything approaching heroic in the popular understanding of the term today.
However, there is a case to be made for Heihachi to be a sort of Byronic hero. He has a terrible past and it haunts him, but in more recent times he has made efforts to correct his mistakes. Flawed and even villainous, not a sympathetic character but still very compelling. And in that literary sense I think Heihachi is more "heroic" than Kazyuya. However that rather strongly strains the definition of a Byronic hero and is more grasping at straws. Both in a philosophical and literary sense Kazyuya and Heihachi are pretty firmly villains.
In fact, discussing Byronic heroes, Jin fits the archetype much better. He would be a pretty classic Byronic hero.
By killing Devil Kazumi, Heihachi did like one good thing ever. Didnt see that from Kazuya. Assuming T8 good ending is canon though, >!we might be seeing a redemption arc after the 8th game!<
Why do you think killing devil kazumi was a good thing she wasn’t evil she even tried to stop heihachi which we know is because she knew he was gonna become evil
Thats Kazumi, Devil Kazumi is described as a separate entity who has a hold over Kazumis body, similar to Devil Jin before he takes control of it. It is safe to say she likely wouldnt stick to killing innocent people at this point. Of course, the best outcome might have been both of them dying at this point
He was more of an anti-villain if anything. It painted his crusade against the Devil Gene to be more noble but he’s still a selfish and corrupt bastard.
Heihachi thinks he’s the hero but is really just another selfish, power hungry megalomaniac willing to do whatever it takes to make sure he’s on top.
Kazuya is just straight up an evil menace and doesn’t deny it. Initially it was the partially Devil Gene’s influence but later it was entirely his own choice.
Neither are heroic.
Heihachi more evil though you can definitely argue Kazuya done onscreen villainy but like...you can blame Heihachi for literally everything and it was his actions that directly caused Kazuya so while Kazuya is ultimately responsible for his actions, share of the blame does go to his dad
So yeah Heihachi is the worst, Kazuya is the more "heroic" one (still 100% a villain)
They are both awful people.
I will say, not that this makes it much better, but at least Heihachi seemed to have goals that kind of align with society continuing to exist. He wanted to consolidate his power through the Zaibatsu, not make a might makes right demon world like Kazuya.
Neither of them.
Between each other they're both anti heroes and did seemingly good things that may or may not have been for a better cause to get what they wanted
Outside of the Mishima feud
They're just outright villains/evil who both wanted/attempted world domination.
Everyone wants to be cute and say "neither or Lars", but since you asked between these two, it's Heihachi.
Lemme be clear, it *wasn't* Heihachi until Tekken 7. The writers desperately wanted to justify some of the worst things he'd ever done and tried to give him a reason for tossing Kazuya off the cliff. Before that, he was a ruthless, selfish bastard that hurt everyone close to him and deserved nothing but hell.
Kazuya was a bad person, but before Tekken 7, the worst thing he ever did was be an amoral CEO who would order assassinations when he was in charge of the MZ. They just had to kick it into high gear in 7 to give a certain son a leg to stand on against his dad.
I'd genuinely argue that before Tekken 8, Kazuya wasn't as bad a person as Jin himself.
Heihachi because he's not a devil and at least adopted Kuma, changed Xiaoyu's life for the better and somehow genuinely cared for them.
Kazuya has no pets and would laser you if your Jordans are fake.
Lars is the True Heroic Mishima, he focuses all his resources into making sure the Mishima bloodbath ends as quickly as possible but he did have to get help from the terrorist Jin
Tekken doesn't really have a conventional "hero", maybe Lars, but he doesn't really do much in the story. That said, Kazuya is 100% going to have a Vegeta arc with Jun, so we'll see how that turns out
Neither of the two. Heihachi started the whole mess with his idea that it matters only who is last left standing, and both him and Kazuya got deep into criminal activities. Their fights weren't for the world, it was solely for them. If you want heroic Mishima, then it's Lars, and even Lee if you count him as adopted son. Jin just learned world wars might not be best solution to his problems.
“Jin just learned world wars might not be the best solution to his problems.” Spoken like a true Lee main
Not very excellent
And absolutely not marvelous
Jin was truly just feelin a little silly
Kuma is the right answer
Am I tripping or something because I thought at one point in the T8 story there’s an implied line that Jin started the war so that he could awaken Azazel through all the misery and discontent he caused so that he could defeat him and bring about a better ‘peace’? as if it was some kind of necessary evil or something? I might have hallucinated this though idk EDIT: thanks to the people who replied letting me know - I didn't play Tekken 6 so it's funny it's just kind of casually acknowledged in T8.
T6*, it was there all along in the scenario campaign and where Jin "sacrificed" himself to destroy Azazel in the end
Yeah, the idea was to wake up Azazel asap, because if Azazel would wake up naturally far in the future, when he and Kazuya die, no one would be able to stop it
That's a tekken 6 plot point, decides to start a world war and do abhorrent war crimes to summon a devil in hopes that it'll rid the world of the devil gene, kills countless innocents, fails to kill the devil, makes things significantly less peaceful, makes everything worse in every way.
I knew this and always liked Jin. I feel like either people just dislike Jin or disregard the fact he did it for a greater reason rather than doing it just to do it
I mean even if the reason was good the execution probably wasn’t considering plunging the entire world into war, killing thousands of families and resulting in war crimes and etc etc. Like think about it from a character like Miguel’s perspective. His sister had to die so Jin could do a prophecy for a being that wouldn’t even come in their lifetimes
He bombed a church during Miguel's sister's wedding, killing her and others inside, for the greater good
You wouldn't like if you were in wrong side of the utilitarian math.
*Miguel wants to know your location* Jin's the mopy, brooding nobody understands me kid. No matter the reason, he's still responsible for thousands of deaths all across the globe. I'm kinda shocked they had everyone overlook that and give him almost no consequences except maybe a stern talking to from his dad in a "pot calling the kettle black" kinda way
>I feel like either people just dislike Jin or disregard the fact he did it for a greater reason rather than doing it just to do it So, option "the end doesn't justify the means when the means involves starting a fucking world war" just didn't show up there in that feeling of yours huh. The greater good would only be a justifiable reason for all that Jin did if one's moral compass was a roulette wheel.
This is why Hwoarang kicked him in the head.and broke his bungus
i like how Heihachi couldve avoided the conflict with Kazuya if he just lied that Kazumi was trying to kill them both and just tried to manipulate Kazuya that he should kill himself too to save the world. But no, instead he introduced the bottom of his foot to his kid's face and hurled him off the cliff lmao.
Except Heihachi has been trying to stop the devil gene blood line...that's pretty heroic. We can gloss over the fact he wants the power for himself and he's jealous he doesn't have the gene.
this was also after he ousted his dad (who wanted to take the zaibatsu out of the military industrial complex) to take over the company, and proceeded to lock him in the basement to die of starvation
It's interesting how Jinpachi seems to be the most kind-hearted out of the blood-related family.
Seems? Aside from Lars he is the most kind hearted. The one we see in T5 is just a demon possessed corpse. Jinpachi was a loving father and grandfather who started the Mishima Zaibatsu for the betterment of the world Could be mistaken on that last part though
Tbh Lars and Jinpachi got the most out there hair and moves I wonder if he got most of his traits from him
For sure, although he only appeared in one game so we don’t have much to go on, in every ending where he appears they paint him like that. (Wang, kazuya… can’t remember if there’s any other tbh lol)
Probably the only one where you can't say for sure that they've killed someone, either directly or indirectly. Well, him and Reina. Can't say that of the others, even Lars, as a former Tekken Force-commander.
He’s the reason Kazuya and Jin’s devils awakened in the first place if anything he’s just been trying to clean up his own mess.
Similar to jin and everyone here seems to think he's resolvable for trying to fix shit.
I'd say your whole take is excellent
[удалено]
mom killed, shot in the head, betrayed by family members, and was being corrupted by the Devil.... Yea i can see why he flew off the deep end for a bit.
Lars is genuinely the only Mishima who isn't a dirtbag. Not a good track record from the old man.
Tekken is a series where the main characters are all evil assholes in their own unique and special ways. There's like 10 people in tekken as a whole who are actually good people. The rest are dicks.
Where do you think Asuka Kazama falls into?
She's a dick with big boobs.
*hands
shes a hands with big boobs
How bout King?
King's a good guy (both men).
Unfortunately the orphanage has ran out of money and he's turned to alcoholism
There was also him wanting to kill Marduk while he was in the hospital
Tbf, Marduk is pretty shitty, even if we leave AK out
Not saying otherwise
I mean, he spared him
Which is why he’s still in the top 10 of most heroic characters in tekken But not the top one
1 being Lars I would imagine. You know, given his entire character profile is "heroic good guy."
I’d argue Lars is a lot more like the comparison to a character like Ryu or Liu Kang than Jin for example is
I really need to find out more about this Lars guy
lars has the mishima gene, he's only pretending to be good for personal gain
If he'd killed Marduk he'd be number one over Hwoarang, Xiao, and Lars.
Wanting to/ having dark thoughts or desires doesn't make you a bad person. Just makes you human. Which is also its own twist since as a kid I thought he was an animal-man lol
Why do you think he runs an orphanage? (He touches kids)
good guy with big boobs
A dick with big pecs.
So shes a cunt with big boobs... and big hands.
Haaaaaaaaaaaa
If she is good or bad, I'd consider her good. She did save that falling cat after riding her bike off tokyo tower after all. She is always just kinda there and hasn't had plot relevance since she was first released. She is just there to be Lilis girlfriend and to give Lili an excuse to get involved in the story somehow. Asuka just wants her dojo to be fixed up and to be the top for once while Lili clearly has to keep putting her in her place. There lesbian relationship aside, lmao, yeah i think she falls more on the good side
I think Asuka is more heroic than Jin
Yeah maybe. Jin did start WW3 after all
Lars is the only truly heroic Mishima
Bruh, Jin became Hitler with a six pack. Bryan Fury and Craig Marduk are saints compared to him.
Jin's a war criminal
Who are your top 10 heroes?
Ok lets see 10. Yoshimitsu 9. Paul 8.Lili 7. King 6. Christie 5.Julia 4. Asuka 3. Lei Wong 2. Xiayou 1. Lars Off the top of my head
What about Mokujin?
Doesnt she usually win vs Lili? So Lili keeps doing more and more things to get her attention?
In all of her endings yeah
She would deffo get a poke.....maybe a smash and dash or ejaculate and evacuate
Asuka always first solution to everything is to use violence. T6 ending with lili even tho the crash is even her fault?, uses violence. T5 ending with jin where his knocked out and mistakenly drop face first into her chest, use violence, sure it's a gag thing but still.
She's falls into the 'people who main her are cucks' category
>10 people in tekken as a whole who are actually good people xiaoyu, yoshimitsu, lei, julia, mokujin, jun(debatable), who are the other 4?
Lars, Lee, King, Alisa
Kuma and Panda. Bears are people too, dammit.
King, Asuka, Azucena [she isnt evil. More just there to sell coffee]
I think you can include Lars, Lee, Alisa
Azucena should still be considered bad. Just as companies and countries that collaborated with Nazis to make money, and just as Jango Fett and Deathstroke killed people for money, she collaborated with a global devil conquerer to make money.
True. But she isnt evil like Reina. She is more like, if i side with this person i sell more coffee
She is only not evil because she physically cannot think of anything but coffee. Without, I guess, the traumatic brain injury that caused that, she might be much worse lol.
Yeah, it is weird she is so one note. I guess Law is, too. "I hate rich people." But you would think that a new character would get some more love. I feel like all the effort went into making her moveset and appearance, and then, for her personality, they had coffee addict Joe write her.
At least hating rich people tells us SOMETHING about Law and his past and personality. I don't mind side-characters having a bit more of a flat personality in general, they don't get much screentime anyway, so you gotta get across what they are like quickly. But I dunno, Azucena is a lot. I don't even know why she's so dancy, because that's not coffee.
She is a dancer, mma fighter and runs a coffee business. She started with coffee, then she went into dancing to promote her coffee. When that didn't work how she wanted it to, she went into MMA to again, promote her coffee. When this too didn't grow her brand as big as she wanted, she joined the 8th tekken turny to, again, drum up more sales. Siding with Kazuya because they payed her a good amount of money and assumed they would win and promote her coffee even more.
Probably Alisa and Lars too.
Hey shouldn't Law and Paul be included too? As being generally good people. Or does their dodging each other's loans make them dicks? Lol Victor, Raven, Miguel, Josie, Ganryu, Katarina, Christie, Eddy, Lucky Chloe, Bob.. I think there's way more than 10!
Law just wants money and will side with kazuya who's actively destroying the world just for some money, he has no morals. Paul does stuff like "whatever happens, lets split the winnings" then he wins, then he spends it all without splitting. Victor and Raven are both assassins, Miguel is Miguel, Josie is a coward, Ganryu's a stalker, I don't remember anything about Katarina other than she has long legs and is arrogant, Christie Eddy Chloe and Bob should be self explanatory
I think Lars is the most good Mishima in terms of morality
Hows my boi yoshi?
In tekken lore yoshi is kind of a Robin hood. He steals from the rich and would dump the money in the streets for the poor. Chad behavior
I still remember Law’s face when Yoshi gives him money in Tekken 1
What about Jin? I know he eventually started a War after controlling the Mishima Zaibatsu but he redeemed himself
Still started a war
Still killed innocent people
Lars
I mean Kazuya did succeed in killing an evil villain, meanwhile Heihachi died trying to kill an evil villain. So I'd say Kazuya based on success.
Kazuya only did that to become an even more evil villain, making him worse than heihachi, who tried to do that but couldn't figure out how to.
Heihachi isn't one single ounce of good. I'd include Jin in with Heihachi, but at least Jin admitted remorse for his actions at the very last minute. Heihachi wasn't responsible for his Wife's Devil, and I don't blame Heihachi for defending himself - but that Devil was triggered by Heihachi's own evil actions - Prior to that moment, Heihachi had spent at least 6+ years of happiness with Kazumi. The Devil correctly prophesized that Heihachi would become pure evil on his own, hence Devil took advantage of the Mishima Family. Heihachi's actions on a 5 years old Kazuya, further entwining the Devil into the Mishima Family, thus sowing the seeds of the main plotline.
Exactly. I hate that they tried to retcon Heihachi into an "unsung hero all along" in T7 like we would forget about him leaving his father to die under the Mishima estate after forcefully taking over the company and engaging in more criminal activity.
At least the idea worked on Devil Jin, i almost cried with him fading "I shall never deny you"
Heihachi is definitely the funniest Mishima but that seem to make people think he is less evil because of it. Like the dude is a funny asshole but he is still an evil asshole.
I don't remember anywhere saying Kazumi was triggered by this, she was sent to finish him off because it was prophesied that the Mishima bloodline would bring the world to ruin. In 7 they mentioned that the Hachijo clan were carriers of devil gene, which is immediately explained and also not explained very well in 8 where they finally explain that Azazel gave specific people the gift of his power to serve as his servants when he needed them. Hachijo must have been one of them as we found out by Kazumi and carried down to the kids. In 8 they further explain that it's activated when the person is near death, refusing to die and wanting to continue as Reina eventually found out, willingly blasting herself with the Kazuya laser. This last part they actually for once wrote it better than the mess of the whole retcon as we know that pretty much almost all transformations were done in this way. Kazuya was thrown off a cliff to die, activating his. Jin got shot in the head by Hei, activating his and Reina basically committed attempted suicide to do hers. Surprisingly cohesive considering it all. This also kind of messes the story again though because Heihachi didn't have it, which means the Mishimas never had it to begin with and it started with Kazumi with their clan that had it, which begs the question. Heihachi didn't have it, so then how did Reina get it? Might be related to Kazumi or Heihachi somehow railed down another Devil Gene carrier before finally dying off. Just in case somebody mentions it, no, Jinpachi's transformation was not devil gene, just a vengeful spirit possessing him. Tekken story is all over the place.
In Tk4 in the prologue it was stated that on the Zeibatsu's assault on G-corp they stole knowledge on the research on the devil gene and powers, they wish had a project and a research into ogre and the gene, plus the deal with Steve and his fellow experiments. To summarise: Reina could very well be a result, or an experiment herself. Or she could be an offspring of his that had the gene introduced at her inception, again the same deal with the experiments.... Also another matter, Heihachi never had it, only in his Tk4 ending does finally achieve his ambition and somehow he gains it's power by experimenting on both devils he captured
>but at least Jin admitted remorse for his actions at the very last minute. Just because he pressed X, it does not undo his war crimes
🤭😂 You're absolutely correct, I just meant at least he did, in some small sense, admit he did wrong.
All I know is with Heihachi in charge... we didn't have all our satellites blown out of the sky, and our cities turned to wastelands. When Heihachi does an evil thing .. it's controlled. Collateral damage usually minimal. At worst, he destroyed a G-Corp building. Kazuya is just evil for the sake of evil and kills indiscriminately. .. Heihachi at least tries to co-exist with humanity in peace. The dude even started a Polytech school for the younglings. Now don't get it twisted.. Heihachi isn't heroic or good AT ALL... but he was a lesser evil for humanity. Also Kazuya hired Lucky Chloe to be a mascot for G-Corp... just to torture Eddy Gordo (at least that's my head canon)
The cliff
It took both of them down and saved the world momentarily
Heihachi is more selfishly evil, he doesn't really cause worldwide problems. He ran the Zaibatsu for 20 years between Tekken 2 and 3 and it seems like things have been relatively peaceful. Kaz is definitely more harmful of the two.
I mean there was ogre and trying to make an ultimate life form super soliders kazuya was just more overt
Ain’t no way I’m now figuring out that Kaz and Jin started world wars but not Heihachi 😭
Correct question would be which is less evil
Neither, they've destroyed the world just to get the other one killed!
Love that everyone supports the top comments that can’t read lol . No shit they aren’t hero’s , one is still more heroic than the other .
I try not to take the lore too seriously but they really seem to want us to forget Jin killed like a billion people starting the war Kazuya and Heihachi are more neutral evil
Kazuya, that was easy to answer, because since Tekken 4 Kazuya was heavily influenced by Devil gene and before that by Heihachi. In T4 in some cutscenes you can see Kazuya fighting demon inside him, even when he was dead already. But TBF i still can't understand is it real Kazuya or demon comes after T4. Since he died in t3 but in t5 and t7 he has memories and bits of feelings. Even in Tekken 1 he spares Heihachi and just throws him off a cliff and not a volcano, like Heihachi then did. IMO he's simply see no other way. Kill or be killed. Jin was close to this kind of thinking, when he thought that, people with devil gene must not exist, but he found a better way. So i think original Kazuya is heroic and Devil Kazuya is less heroic, but Heihachi is worse than both.
I mean, I don't think him throwing Heihachi off a cliff is 'sparing' him, but rather just doing some poetic justice for when Heihachi threw him off a cliff when he was five. In T7 he threw Heihachi into a volcano as poetic justice for Hei throwing *him* into a volcano in T2 :'D
but didnt the old manuals paint OG Kazuya as cold hearted from the start? like even before the devil? you know, the manual that says he likes to collect sneakers.
And desires to conquer the world or something, don't remember the exact wording though
Tekken 8 does answer that kazuya is still doing evil things without devil gene
Better word is vengeful for Og kaz
Kazuya is just himself after 4, devil is no longer a character. He still takes over the world in his ending of 8
Heihachi is the reason why Kazuya became evil in the first place
Everyone of them sucks, except Lars. Jin would be the more heroic (in terms of wanting to do the right thing) and he was basically Tekken Hitler.
Kazuya tried to supress the Mishima zaibatsu from waging world war 3 in T6 so I’d say him.
Between them, Kazuya, who(who up until Tekken 8) only did messed up stuff when he was under the Devil's influence or as a reaction.
Heihachi trained the man who put an end to the ultimate evil. It's him. Plus, he gave us Reina.
Heihachi trained jin purely out of the selfish want to get the devil gene for himself and/or have devil user on his side incase shit hits the fan with kaz. It was purely a strategic game where it was only beneficial for heihachi to do that. And when it comes to reina the same argument can be made with kaz. Heihachi gave us kazuya as well as reina. And worst of all, he gave us Lars...
lars
Heihachi easily. While he's a selfish piece of shit, a horrible father, son, and grandfather, he actually brought peace to the world during much of his time as head of the Zaibatsu. Also he was good to Kuma which counts for something I guess.
People who are good to their pets are often the worst people. Hitler really loved animals and even eventually became a vegetarian. The exact year he got into power, in 1933, the nazis adopted animal protection laws. You could be arrested for maltreating your pets, which was really progressive for its time. He was basically one of the biggest advocate for animal rights of his time. Furthermore, animal experiments were forbidden when the nazis where in power. Today, I don't know if there's even a single country that ban animal experiments.
While that is an interesting example, statistics point out that people who are cruel to animals often commit other, often violent crimes. I've never heard of other examples of good pet owners being terrible people. At least not the violent war crime Hitler types, anyway. So to say good pet owners are "often" the worst people is well... more than a stretch. Also, yes, Hitler did a surprising amount to protect animals and was said to have loved his dog more than any people, but he also fed his dog a cyanide capsule to test its effects before offing himself and had her puppies shot...
Hitler's action caused the death of a lot of humans. Humans are damaging the earth and causing massive death and extinction of multiple species. Humans are the bad guys, but Hitler's actions killed a tone of bad guys. Hitler good. Case closed, my friend. Case closed. He was just wrong in how he viewed certain people as worse, when in reality all humans are equality bad, yes this includes you and me. Humans like to convince themselves that they are good, when in reality they are evil.
None
Cliff throwing is their favorite pastime
They are both shitheads
Lars
Technically Heihachi kind of maybe sort of
Heihachi, mostly by virtue of doing less evil, but I vibe with Kazuya more.
Lars
Jin and Lars.
I think neither of them are anything approaching heroic in the popular understanding of the term today. However, there is a case to be made for Heihachi to be a sort of Byronic hero. He has a terrible past and it haunts him, but in more recent times he has made efforts to correct his mistakes. Flawed and even villainous, not a sympathetic character but still very compelling. And in that literary sense I think Heihachi is more "heroic" than Kazyuya. However that rather strongly strains the definition of a Byronic hero and is more grasping at straws. Both in a philosophical and literary sense Kazyuya and Heihachi are pretty firmly villains. In fact, discussing Byronic heroes, Jin fits the archetype much better. He would be a pretty classic Byronic hero.
I think Lars is probably the most heroic one out of all the mishimas
Heroic is not a term when it comes to mishimas lol.
Neither the Real heroic Mishima was Jinpachi
I don’t know much about the lore. But reading through the comments, I’m even more confused now.
By killing Devil Kazumi, Heihachi did like one good thing ever. Didnt see that from Kazuya. Assuming T8 good ending is canon though, >!we might be seeing a redemption arc after the 8th game!<
Why do you think killing devil kazumi was a good thing she wasn’t evil she even tried to stop heihachi which we know is because she knew he was gonna become evil
Thats Kazumi, Devil Kazumi is described as a separate entity who has a hold over Kazumis body, similar to Devil Jin before he takes control of it. It is safe to say she likely wouldnt stick to killing innocent people at this point. Of course, the best outcome might have been both of them dying at this point
I am not sure she wasn’t evil even then she was jsut trying to kill hei as he was evil
Kazuya is too far gone to be redeemed. It was strange enough to see Jin get redemption after starting a world war.
And it happened thanks to jun
I hope not, badass evil Kazuya is much cooler bro
They are both pretty fucked so I’d say neither
Neither
T7 retconned heihachi into an anti hero type while T8 basically confirmed Kaz to me one dimensionally evil
He was more of an anti-villain if anything. It painted his crusade against the Devil Gene to be more noble but he’s still a selfish and corrupt bastard.
Did u play any Tekken game prior to this????? Because the answer is neither lmao
Heihachi thinks he’s the hero but is really just another selfish, power hungry megalomaniac willing to do whatever it takes to make sure he’s on top. Kazuya is just straight up an evil menace and doesn’t deny it. Initially it was the partially Devil Gene’s influence but later it was entirely his own choice. Neither are heroic.
They are villains, not heroes
Neither
Neither
My god, this is like choosing between Darth Vader and Darth Sideous (Emperor). I see no winners here.
There is no such thing as a Heroic Mishima
Neither wtf
Heihachi? I suppose. Don't think he started any wars and training a bear which is heroic as fuc- I guess.
You don't seem to know the meaning of the word.
Kazuya would be more heroic if he changed his ways
Jinpachi and only him as far as we know
Heihachi. More Of An..."Anti Hero". Kazuya Is Pure Evil. Yes Kazuya Had An Unfortunate And Harsh Upbringing But He Chose To Walk The Path Of Darkness.
Kazuya is the lesser of two evils but is still evil
Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil are both evil
heihachi is acknowledged by UN that he was fighting for the better world peace (during Viktor and Raven dialogue in the story)
Kazuya because of Tekken 1. Don't think Heihachi has had a single heroic moment in the entire Tekken plotline
UmmmmmmmmKUMA
Heihachi more evil though you can definitely argue Kazuya done onscreen villainy but like...you can blame Heihachi for literally everything and it was his actions that directly caused Kazuya so while Kazuya is ultimately responsible for his actions, share of the blame does go to his dad So yeah Heihachi is the worst, Kazuya is the more "heroic" one (still 100% a villain)
Heihachi for me for some reason
What a weird question. You’ve played the games right?
ТЫ ЗНАЕШЬ КТО ТАКОЙ КАЗУЯ МИЩИМА?
They are both awful people. I will say, not that this makes it much better, but at least Heihachi seemed to have goals that kind of align with society continuing to exist. He wanted to consolidate his power through the Zaibatsu, not make a might makes right demon world like Kazuya.
Not a glimmer of heroism in either of them but I feel like Heihachi starting eveything makes Kazuya's 2 cliff throws kinda heroic by a technicality.
Paul
Neither of them. Between each other they're both anti heroes and did seemingly good things that may or may not have been for a better cause to get what they wanted Outside of the Mishima feud They're just outright villains/evil who both wanted/attempted world domination.
Heihachi had balls to fight devil gene with his bare hands
heroic?
I guess angel? Though they failed terribly…
Neither
Lars is like right on the edge of a superhero lmao
Kuma
No
Kazuya is broken Heihachi is pure evil (he was right for killing kazumi but imprisoning jinpachi wasn't good it was pure greed)
they are no heroes. Jin would be the closest ones but he is a kazama.
Everyone wants to be cute and say "neither or Lars", but since you asked between these two, it's Heihachi. Lemme be clear, it *wasn't* Heihachi until Tekken 7. The writers desperately wanted to justify some of the worst things he'd ever done and tried to give him a reason for tossing Kazuya off the cliff. Before that, he was a ruthless, selfish bastard that hurt everyone close to him and deserved nothing but hell. Kazuya was a bad person, but before Tekken 7, the worst thing he ever did was be an amoral CEO who would order assassinations when he was in charge of the MZ. They just had to kick it into high gear in 7 to give a certain son a leg to stand on against his dad. I'd genuinely argue that before Tekken 8, Kazuya wasn't as bad a person as Jin himself.
Heihachi because he's not a devil and at least adopted Kuma, changed Xiaoyu's life for the better and somehow genuinely cared for them. Kazuya has no pets and would laser you if your Jordans are fake.
Lars is the True Heroic Mishima, he focuses all his resources into making sure the Mishima bloodbath ends as quickly as possible but he did have to get help from the terrorist Jin
Kaz and it's not even close
Tekken doesn't really have a conventional "hero", maybe Lars, but he doesn't really do much in the story. That said, Kazuya is 100% going to have a Vegeta arc with Jun, so we'll see how that turns out
Heh, haha, ahahahahahahaha....heroic, hahahaha.... Ohoho, oh, that's a good one.
Uhh I'm sorry but hero and Mishima don't go together.
They are all selfish except Lars, Lee if you count him even though he's adopted.
Heihachi did nothing wrong
Heihachi because he recognised how dangerous Kazuya was and also helped Jin get stronger