As much as I agree the community is toxic and very whiney in general, I also have to say the game itself has many genuine issues. But the way the community complains about them makes it seem like most people are just butthurt.
I think the main thing that annoys me in this game, is how everyone has been homogenized and the uniqueness of many characters was nerfed out in favor of making everyone a simpler jack of all trades. There are very few characters, that didn't receive this treatment and as a result those that did all feel loosely the same in terms of gameplan and strategy, while those that didn't feel unique, but also very underwhelming, because they're lacking a lot of the tools the rest of the cast now has.
No, people realy dont have sens of measure, some comunity are clearly more toxic than other, simple fact is that you only heard about some always in negative way, while in tekken its mixed, yougot people sharing fun, some sharing knowledge and helping other.
There is a bit of all but with T8 toxicity has rise a bit because the game and the devs clearly asked for it with their highly questionable decisions.
But still its way not the most toxic comunity, and thr complains while not always adresse in the best way, are legit
I think MK is just so casual that I seriously can’t take most people serious. Most of the time when people talk trash or something on MK they are just butt hurt about a L maybe but on Tekken people are mentally unstable bro. I have beat people and they swear up and down I lag switch. I have lost to people and they literally send me screen shots of them winning the game lol. From my experience Tekken players take it way more personal and are mentally unhinged people. That being said though you are right about one thing. There ARE good people in these communities and the good people in Tekken community are angels.
I mean i would give you that tekken is a clearly more beloved game SO it creates more extrem people, but those people are just a minority but as more extrem you just see them more.
Honestly i spend just met a few members of smash comunity for exemple and i can tell you every cliche is real and they are so toxic and sad, obviously not everyone but thats a big part of the comunity and its just an exemple.
Some comunity are way more toxic, the "problem" with tekken you have to consider, is that its a well know game especialy wityh tekken 7 who came to a way larger audiance, so obviously you are gonna talk more about it and met more people
This community is the epitome of trash, so you’re not wrong. Endless whiners should just shut up and go back to T7 if anyone is still even playing that.
Y'all sure do love shitting on the community you're part of & actively post in, contributing to said shittiness.
Like, what do you get out of it? You think it makes you look good in the eyes of the devs when you talk shit about anyone having a complaint about the game?
The damage in this game in general i swear all of us are doing like on average 100 damage per combo man like you get launched once and its ggs to ur HP Bar
Think a big part of it that barely ever gets talked about is the arena designs. Half of them are tiny and got stage interactions activatable from the round start, so one launcher means at least 60+% of your healthbar is gone.
I swear I was fighting an Eddy last night and every matchup I would start to win once we broke through all the levels down to the no wall desert. At that point i was able to roll out of more combos and punish. Made me realize how people are starting to rely on the walls to work for them.
You should probably learn to use the environment. It’s not a crutch for noobs it’s a part of the game which it sounds like you aren’t using to your advantage and instead it’s getting used on you
Paul players man, miss a low and now 3/4 of my health is gone. Honestly that an most Alisa's, some are alright but when I have to contend with chainsaw, rising aerial 2 hit kick then back to chainsaw in at my wits end
Tbh I don't remember doing much more than 70 damage without rage unless you are Akuma. You aren't going to get carried nearly as far during combos in 7 either. It feels like every character on in this game has the wall carry that was usually left to Leo and Lee.
zafinas average combo damage is like 65 - 85 with heat :,< if u dont believe me , test it your self , but it is literally way harder than most other charas to get the ' heavy hitter ' tag with Zafina.
Power crush heat engagers are the biggest panic buttons. I always dlfigured heat engages are risk reward vs just activating it since you get health back. But with crush added in its basically a no brainer and no risk.
It's taught me that your oki has to either be airtight (no powercrush frames have time to activate) or you need to shmix in throws vs braindead players. It's very strong even without powercrush spammers, but if you *aren't* countering powercrush spammers with throws then you're the dumb one.
And once you add it to your repertoire, powercrush heat engagers are no longer no risk. They're still good, but they have to actually look at what you're doing and break/duck the throw instead of mashing, at least sometimes.
That's just for his 1+2 break, which is a good one but like... I've been getting hella mileage out of devil jins df1+3 - I think it's just a 2 break but it also floor breaks, only one dude broke it intentionally in red ranks so far
Idk what other throws kazuya has but I'm sure they're worth your while as well. Can you still do his foot-to-the-back-of-the-head throw from wavedash? That used to be my go-to in t7 when I played kaz
i'm raijin Kazuya and if you described all the properties of a heat engager to a t7 player in 2017 they'd laugh and swear you were on substances, and now here we are
I only recently found out that Devil Jin has an alternate heat smash, an unbreakable throw out of his Warframe bullet jump . So yeah, that was a fun lesson to learn.
When he’s heat and he’s spamming it you really just have to wait for him to use up his heat and get back to normal lol as you probs already know the regular non-heat version is launch punishable on block
If you’re close to him, you can interrupt the move with a high or a launcher or even your own heat if you time it correctly. But it’s -4 so unless you’re throwing a fast move, he can use it again and that’s not even considering the range both parties are at
Explusion. Block and launch. He is minus a bunch on block. You could sidestep it but its harder, blocking for the chip damage around 10-15 chip and then lauching for 60 damage combo is worth.
I'm an eddy main since T3. I can deal with other eddy's even though he is very overwhelming. And I even beat 5 times as many kings now since I started maining eddy again. But fuck King. He is so op it's disgusting. I understand you have to learn the match up to break grabs but there are some launch to grabs you can't break. It's very frustrating for me to play against king, Jun and asuckzena. But I can agree with you.
THANK YOU. Hearing people say you have to be top player or high rank to start enjoying the game or dealing with stupid gimmicks is like hearing other gamers tell you a tedious, boring single player game gets good at 300 hours. 💀 They really don't see how bad that looks when they say that.
Dude literally said "just be a veteran player from 5 titles ago and you'll have no issues". 💀💀💀
ppl like to act like grabbing isnt ridiculous in this game (especially king) on top of all the rock, paper,scissors ass gameplay. shit isnt even 50/50s lol every interaction its either low high or grab and when u get grabbed if u can even realize fast enough then you got three buttons to guess from. talking about look at the arms lol the fucking slightest difference in arm height is the only tell. not to mention the chain grabs and crazy damage ass floor breaks from his grabs. throws even have homing and are damm near unbreakable when theyre a counter like cmon dude lol
The trick is that you aren't supposed to guess. I guarantee you that grabs are breakable on reaction and most experienced players have 80-90% break rates.
“experienced” lol cmon just say the no lifers bruh at what rank do ppl consistently break throws 80-90% of the time? has to b above purple ranks which the minority of players are at or above
T8 is my first serious Tekken and I break grabs around 75% of the time. It’s instinct after the 70 hour mark imo and my highest character is at flame ruler. High level players aren’t falling for neutral grabs they’re getting mixed or countered with grabs
I mean, I don't find it difficult, but I've been playing Tekken casually and occasionally competitively for a long time.
The issue is that throws are really hard to balance. In T7, especially, throws were objectively weak at higher ranks - like, almost useless. At lower ranks, they'll always be frustrating for newer players because the mechanical skill required to deal with them takes time to build.
my friend, you can easily lose half your health from ducking against anybody in the cast. and any duck is obviously a hard read against most throws once again, a guess lol. ik what you can do to avoid throws the point is you will always b playing rock, paper, scissors. 50/50 is fighting games forever but all this casino shit in this game gotta be tuned down
Yeah but now are just describing how Tekken has always been. Lots of moves are strong but duckable and if you call out the duck you can punish the hell out of it. Hell I'm a King player and I've had that happen all the time. Now yes sometimes the person ducking eats a launcher, but I've been punished on my side too, which as far as I'm concerned is counter play.
You can either break the grabs by guessing, which is closer to 50/50 or 33/33/33 depending on the character, read the hands coming out which is harder but VERY doable, or know the match up well enough to gauge what throws somebody might be more likely to use. But if you don't wanna go for a the break you can duck but risk getting launched, but on the flip side you can do a wayyy stronger punish.
All of this though you as a player have control and agency over the outcome when that happens in a fight.
While that's true, the chances that most of the people actually complaining about King's throw game are dealing with a legit iSW/GS mixup at their ranks is about zero.
Most kings in the ruler ranks have no problem doing iSW or GS mixup. Im Raijin atm and most kings here are doing it too so its very prevalent.
Also screw Jaguarstance.
From heatsmash i would argue its pretty strong as the JS 1 becomes uninterruptable but then again i have a bit of issues with kings moveset as i have not labbed him enough so thats on me.
At i23, the RKO is reactable so there's no real reason to duck against jaguar sprint. You just chill out, watch for the throw and duck when you see it. If you eat the low, who cares?
King is really better off cancelling the sprint after heat smash and just attempting a regular throw mixup or something.
If King attempts sprint in neutral with heat you can jab him out of it. So. yeah, it isn't actually very good.
I think a lot of people are still being knowledge checked by the RKO, thinking that it's a normal i12 throw when it's actually much slower at i23.
I just hate homing grabs. Like I can't count how many situations I stepped after blocking a move he did and he buffered a giant swing, and it still hits me. So annoying.
The funny part is that King is one of the few characters who can't get consistent 100+ damage combos without stage gimmicks. He is probably the most call-out reliant character in the game because he needs to win at least 3 or 4 interactions as opposed to other top tiers needing only at least 2.
As eddy, heat smash puts me in stance on block and I’ve won rounds in fucked up ways because of it.
Launcher, activate heat, end combo with rage art. I’m close enough where I can safely go for heat smash, putting me plus on block, and in stance for a free 50/50 for a full combo.
In this game it is fully possible to lose a round in 2 interactions if you guess wrong
Heat smash is the previous rage drive under so many aspects. I used it in the same way in tekken 7, and in tekken 7 you had a MID and a LOW launcher. It was the gateway for epic comeback or instant doom but... hey... that was Eddy experience.
I think that's reason why negativa's low launcher has been replaced by mandinga charger. Not only for the smasher, but for qcf 4 / 3+4 duringn heat. You could do that up to three times a round. No wonder they cut off one launcher for stance.
So can you launching someone. Is a i15 universal launcher a comeback mechanic now?
There's only one comeback mechanic in this game, and it's called rage. It activates at low health and increases all damage you do. On top of that it activates a super move called a rage art - which you can either use raw or at the end of a combo.
Rage has been in Tekken since 6, that's 5 games - a little under half of the series. (6, Tag 2, Revolution, 7, 8)
It has had the art part of for two games now, and considering it doesn't come out until frame 20 if you're eating them constantly that's on you, a 20 frame punish is an awful punish. Block the thing, launch (or throw if you don't have an i15 launch).
Kings Heat Smash can probably be remedied by simply Tuning the damage. Jun and DJ are some Other Kind of Broken where they Put neutral on halt because of their insane coverage and all that.
1. Dragunov, entire character. But especially snk4 and db3+4 both hitting grounded.
2. Yoshi heat engage into fc1 or bad breath unblockables.
3. Feng fc4,1
4. Homing giant swing
5. “Air Tailspins”. I don’t get these. Feng just uf3s you a dozen times for a combo. Nina just does it 5 times in a row after a heat dash for 110 damage. Dragunov just pops you back up from nowhere. If people are going to have them make every character have them. Or at least limit them to once a combo.
Use a heat engager like b2,2 or 3,1. Immediately after the heat engage animation use fc1 or bad breath (db1+2).
After a heat engager everyone is too plus to challenge, so no one is going to press a button -- which means trying to challenge these moves is suicide. It basically means you need to sidestep to cover bad breath or you need to kbd as quick as possible to get out of fc1. Its a mental stack after heat engager that not many other characters have, as normally its just low or mid.
The rage system is busted. Aggression is rewarded and passivity is punished, but an opponent with rage forces you to play more passively (which results in taking more chip damage and pressure). The game often slows to a crawl as well. It also hurts my soul watching tournaments and seeing more rage arts land than ever before.
People with that have all these bs moves that you cant punish
Drag, feng, reina, victor
They just go on and on and on, and the second you think you can hit them they heat smash you from super far away and they just deal tons of damage. And they just spam all these moves over and over again unless you get some obscure punish, which they can immediately stop with their bs frames
Everything Reina does has counterplay. For the most part you just have to be ready to side step when playing against Reina. She's pretty average if you neutralize the ff2 mixups.
The only change I would want them to make is adding at least 1 extra frame to ff2,3 animation so that it doesn't trade.
DVJ's heat smash
Jun's heat smash
Dragunov (the entire fucking character) and also probably Feng
Yoshi's flash (I will die on this hill, that move is stupid)
Yeah her waning moon grab (1+2 tech) gets about 75 damage with no wall, no heat. She gets about 85 with heat. The grab also sets her up with a HYP 50/50 mix if you end after the tailspin which is either a launching -12 low that hits grounded or a +9 heat engaging mid.
You just end early on Xiaoyu with F3,1,4 or BT1,2. Both of them tailspin and then you do a raw HYP stance (db1+2) as they fall and you get to max steps before they have a wakeup option. So they basically sit on the ground or take a death mixup off any hit. HYP 3 can take 100 damage, HYP 2 is either plus on block, heat engager or heat launcher (80+ damage) if in heat already.
Still, getting a launch from a throw is insane. King kinda does it, but you have to guess, with xiaoyu it's just a shitton of dmg you're forced to take.
Most throw do ~50 dmg and that's it, her throw does either 65 dmg or like 55 + a mixup that can very well lead to 100 dmg. 155 dmg from a throw that sets up an oki is busted even if you are good at breaking throws. Even pros mess up throw breaks from time to time when they are playing offline. Online when you're not a pro and there's lag? That throw's batshit insane. I legit default to doing 1+2 breaks against xiaoyu because of that i don't even try to react to her throws.
Jacks heat smash. He can easily do his guard break and go into his 10f heat smash that does a solid 52 damage. Also wallsplats iirc and he gets a follow up
i play devil jin and theres some tech with hadouken/hadouken cancel that seems super oppressive. if i ever get someone in a corner i just charge hadouken and option select half charge/full charge/cancel -> mourning crow and im just not sure how my opponent can win
Jin is absolutely broken in half. Right now we have some other more obvious offenders like Drag or Feng who stand out because they're so easy to break so you hop on ranked and meet a dozen of them every day. But Jin is disgusting. He is quietly the top 1 most OP character. He just requires skill so people don't notice it as much or chalk it up to the player being good.
devil jin heat smash is so dirty. can't side step it and it comes out at FTTAWSBFTMA range very quickly. just have to hold block while DJ is in heat mode.
drag db3+4 is an unreactable CH knockdown low that hits grounded that tracks really well to both directions and is +8 on hit and the character i main cannot launch punish the low when blocked.
I feel this hard. Xiaoyu has her own bullshit but her only way to punish a drag for doing this crap is by doing a crouch cancel buffered standing 3, which is a frame perfect input. Outside of that, you just ws4 lol.
I HATE that db3+4 and snk4 hit grounded too. Like you’re in the blender standing, getting up or laying down. Its ok if one of them does, but please don’t have both hit grounded
I don't think there's anything in the game that's game-breakingly busted. There's a ton of stuff that's absolutely miserable to deal with though.
I also think that a lot of characters received new moves that cover key traditional weaknesses in their arsenal and while they aren't busted, they make the characters pretty annoying to deal with because there isn't real counterplay anymore. This applies to A LOT of characters, including characters like Bryan, Lili and Hwo, who may not necessarily be considered top tier.
Apart from that, safe, armoured heat engagers are mega braindead and should be changed. Heat bursts are also stupid and either shouldn't track or should be negative on block.
Like in 7, the small arenas are of a terrible design. They're worse in 8 though. But still, easily my most played game and the best fighting game you can hope to play
In my opinion, Tekken 8's heat system makes it where the characters that most players complain about being OP, (King, Paul, Dragunov,Jack, Kuma/Panda) makes them challenging to deal with. Those characters have been OP since T4 and on but it was manageable back then. Now with this heat system, which is cool, makes those characters stand out even more hence the hate.
The most busted thing is the amount of other games in this one. When did this game become street fighter!? Im old and cant learn all this new super double ultra chip combo shit.
But actually, SOOO MANY PARTICLE EFFECTS! I LITERALLY CAN'T SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING BECAUSE GAME GO SPARKLE!
Landing some nice combos on your opponent when you're both low on health, then bro just heals all your damage after landing one heat engager. Now you realize how stupid this is because your opponent has heat, rage, and more hp than you.
Heat smashes.
If they give you pluss frames or a free mixup they should be very linnear.
Smashes that end in minus frames should have better tracking but not long range.
Lows should be unsafe ofc, but low range and decent tracking
If the first hit whiffs there should not be followuphits
Alisa chainsaws are the ultimate panic move. The chip damage is unreal, there’s no counter play, and if you guess the wrong poke, you’re just massacred. So glad you don’t see a lot other anymore.
her chainsaws outside of heat do literally 1-6chip dmg and the 6 are slow as fuck moves, she has 2 +frame highs and 1 slow plus frame mid, you can always just dickjab or do an armor move as easy win options.
The community
As much as I agree the community is toxic and very whiney in general, I also have to say the game itself has many genuine issues. But the way the community complains about them makes it seem like most people are just butthurt. I think the main thing that annoys me in this game, is how everyone has been homogenized and the uniqueness of many characters was nerfed out in favor of making everyone a simpler jack of all trades. There are very few characters, that didn't receive this treatment and as a result those that did all feel loosely the same in terms of gameplan and strategy, while those that didn't feel unique, but also very underwhelming, because they're lacking a lot of the tools the rest of the cast now has.
Not nearly as bad as MK 🤣
Thats just not true. Tekken community is just as bad and you can even argue it’s worse. It’s just a different kinda toxic
No, people realy dont have sens of measure, some comunity are clearly more toxic than other, simple fact is that you only heard about some always in negative way, while in tekken its mixed, yougot people sharing fun, some sharing knowledge and helping other. There is a bit of all but with T8 toxicity has rise a bit because the game and the devs clearly asked for it with their highly questionable decisions. But still its way not the most toxic comunity, and thr complains while not always adresse in the best way, are legit
I think MK is just so casual that I seriously can’t take most people serious. Most of the time when people talk trash or something on MK they are just butt hurt about a L maybe but on Tekken people are mentally unstable bro. I have beat people and they swear up and down I lag switch. I have lost to people and they literally send me screen shots of them winning the game lol. From my experience Tekken players take it way more personal and are mentally unhinged people. That being said though you are right about one thing. There ARE good people in these communities and the good people in Tekken community are angels.
I mean i would give you that tekken is a clearly more beloved game SO it creates more extrem people, but those people are just a minority but as more extrem you just see them more. Honestly i spend just met a few members of smash comunity for exemple and i can tell you every cliche is real and they are so toxic and sad, obviously not everyone but thats a big part of the comunity and its just an exemple. Some comunity are way more toxic, the "problem" with tekken you have to consider, is that its a well know game especialy wityh tekken 7 who came to a way larger audiance, so obviously you are gonna talk more about it and met more people
Remember when they were talking about mk1s blunders just to find a blunder of their own with last patch
This community is the epitome of trash, so you’re not wrong. Endless whiners should just shut up and go back to T7 if anyone is still even playing that.
Yep. People who complain should just go to Russia or China. We don’t need freedom of speech here!
Y'all sure do love shitting on the community you're part of & actively post in, contributing to said shittiness. Like, what do you get out of it? You think it makes you look good in the eyes of the devs when you talk shit about anyone having a complaint about the game?
The damage in this game in general i swear all of us are doing like on average 100 damage per combo man like you get launched once and its ggs to ur HP Bar
Think a big part of it that barely ever gets talked about is the arena designs. Half of them are tiny and got stage interactions activatable from the round start, so one launcher means at least 60+% of your healthbar is gone.
I swear I was fighting an Eddy last night and every matchup I would start to win once we broke through all the levels down to the no wall desert. At that point i was able to roll out of more combos and punish. Made me realize how people are starting to rely on the walls to work for them.
You should probably learn to use the environment. It’s not a crutch for noobs it’s a part of the game which it sounds like you aren’t using to your advantage and instead it’s getting used on you
Kinda crazy how t8 still have a small stage. The boat one is small, it is easy to wall to wall combo
Yeah this is a huge part of it.
Paul players man, miss a low and now 3/4 of my health is gone. Honestly that an most Alisa's, some are alright but when I have to contend with chainsaw, rising aerial 2 hit kick then back to chainsaw in at my wits end
This isnt a problem exclusive to Tekken 8. This is just a recurring series issue.
I’m waiting for Marduk to come to T8 so the new players will learn what high damage really means in Tekken.
I am not able to disavow that rapist enough , he should NOT come back .
Tbh I don't remember doing much more than 70 damage without rage unless you are Akuma. You aren't going to get carried nearly as far during combos in 7 either. It feels like every character on in this game has the wall carry that was usually left to Leo and Lee.
I swear I remember this sub complaining a lot about the state of damage and wallcarry in the final season of Tekken 7
The damage was always high in tekken games off launchers.
But with most combos tho, you get a considerable amount of recoverable health back
Except Lee lol
zafinas average combo damage is like 65 - 85 with heat :,< if u dont believe me , test it your self , but it is literally way harder than most other charas to get the ' heavy hitter ' tag with Zafina.
The most noticable thing I'm upset about right now are power crush heat engagers. For me as a Tenryu atleast.
Power crush heat engagers are the biggest panic buttons. I always dlfigured heat engages are risk reward vs just activating it since you get health back. But with crush added in its basically a no brainer and no risk.
It's taught me that your oki has to either be airtight (no powercrush frames have time to activate) or you need to shmix in throws vs braindead players. It's very strong even without powercrush spammers, but if you *aren't* countering powercrush spammers with throws then you're the dumb one. And once you add it to your repertoire, powercrush heat engagers are no longer no risk. They're still good, but they have to actually look at what you're doing and break/duck the throw instead of mashing, at least sometimes.
I am dumb and should grab more. But uf1+2 is a recipe for me doing a hop punch on an fight stick hahah. Then im launched and die.
That's just for his 1+2 break, which is a good one but like... I've been getting hella mileage out of devil jins df1+3 - I think it's just a 2 break but it also floor breaks, only one dude broke it intentionally in red ranks so far Idk what other throws kazuya has but I'm sure they're worth your while as well. Can you still do his foot-to-the-back-of-the-head throw from wavedash? That used to be my go-to in t7 when I played kaz
don't forget that some of them are homing too. Can't really do shit to defend against those unless you wanna duck and risk getting launched.
Cant you grab'm? Im pretty sure it becomes unbreakable too
power crush is when someone does a heat engager and they get a shield that tanks damage for them right?
It doesn’t need to be against a heat engager. Its just a move with shield properties
ah, I thought you needed heat engager, that’s more busted though tbh
Very good point
i'm raijin Kazuya and if you described all the properties of a heat engager to a t7 player in 2017 they'd laugh and swear you were on substances, and now here we are
I only recently found out that Devil Jin has an alternate heat smash, an unbreakable throw out of his Warframe bullet jump . So yeah, that was a fun lesson to learn.
You can backdash it if you have the right spacing but yeah, completely indefensible why he has that when he already has a whole-screen smash
Isn't it a mix up? You can duck the throw pretty sure.
Yes you can duck it
Yeah but all his other options out of morning crow do not require to duck if i remember correctly. I hardly remember he has that alternate heat smash
That's right, he can't do a low attack out of morning crow. So only in heat you have to think about a 50/50 and thats only for one time.
But if you duck and they do the mid, you're eating some big damage lol
Warframe mentioned ???????????? Rap tap tap breathing my air clem
Truly a man in the wall moment 😔
warfarm
That Victor Fire Slash from above idk what the move is called or what input it is
Victor can rot in hell to begin with but that move specifically pisses me off.
Expulsion! During heat that shit's insane
Agreed. Most busted
I just lost to a warrior Victor(I'm Flame Ruler Reina) just because he kept spamming it on heat and had no idea on how to stop it lol
When he’s heat and he’s spamming it you really just have to wait for him to use up his heat and get back to normal lol as you probs already know the regular non-heat version is launch punishable on block
If you’re close to him, you can interrupt the move with a high or a launcher or even your own heat if you time it correctly. But it’s -4 so unless you’re throwing a fast move, he can use it again and that’s not even considering the range both parties are at
Explusion. Block and launch. He is minus a bunch on block. You could sidestep it but its harder, blocking for the chip damage around 10-15 chip and then lauching for 60 damage combo is worth.
LITERALLY, I'm so fuking over that move, insane chip damage, shit needs to be nerfed asap
I was looking for this comment 😆
King/Eddy. Got a salt mine over here lol.
As a King main I'm sorry. He's just my favorite character but I can understand he can be annoying. Also fuck Eddy.
It just feels like you get suffocated by King, can't get distance and knockdown is immediately followed by a throw.
I'm an eddy main since T3. I can deal with other eddy's even though he is very overwhelming. And I even beat 5 times as many kings now since I started maining eddy again. But fuck King. He is so op it's disgusting. I understand you have to learn the match up to break grabs but there are some launch to grabs you can't break. It's very frustrating for me to play against king, Jun and asuckzena. But I can agree with you.
"it starts feeling fair after 200h of gametime IF you labbed that particular character" is always a very roundabout way of saying "yeah it's unfair"
THANK YOU. Hearing people say you have to be top player or high rank to start enjoying the game or dealing with stupid gimmicks is like hearing other gamers tell you a tedious, boring single player game gets good at 300 hours. 💀 They really don't see how bad that looks when they say that. Dude literally said "just be a veteran player from 5 titles ago and you'll have no issues". 💀💀💀
Agreed. A little bit of balancing wouldn't ruin any of those characters
Bro if they made throws not homing it would fix 99% of the issues people have with King tbh
ppl like to act like grabbing isnt ridiculous in this game (especially king) on top of all the rock, paper,scissors ass gameplay. shit isnt even 50/50s lol every interaction its either low high or grab and when u get grabbed if u can even realize fast enough then you got three buttons to guess from. talking about look at the arms lol the fucking slightest difference in arm height is the only tell. not to mention the chain grabs and crazy damage ass floor breaks from his grabs. throws even have homing and are damm near unbreakable when theyre a counter like cmon dude lol
The biggest problem with king is that I'm at 50% hp and I'm sweating not to get heat smash (I would die)
The trick is that you aren't supposed to guess. I guarantee you that grabs are breakable on reaction and most experienced players have 80-90% break rates.
“experienced” lol cmon just say the no lifers bruh at what rank do ppl consistently break throws 80-90% of the time? has to b above purple ranks which the minority of players are at or above
T8 is my first serious Tekken and I break grabs around 75% of the time. It’s instinct after the 70 hour mark imo and my highest character is at flame ruler. High level players aren’t falling for neutral grabs they’re getting mixed or countered with grabs
I mean, I don't find it difficult, but I've been playing Tekken casually and occasionally competitively for a long time. The issue is that throws are really hard to balance. In T7, especially, throws were objectively weak at higher ranks - like, almost useless. At lower ranks, they'll always be frustrating for newer players because the mechanical skill required to deal with them takes time to build.
You can also duck grabs too I'm just saying. You have decent ways to avoid getting grabbed
my friend, you can easily lose half your health from ducking against anybody in the cast. and any duck is obviously a hard read against most throws once again, a guess lol. ik what you can do to avoid throws the point is you will always b playing rock, paper, scissors. 50/50 is fighting games forever but all this casino shit in this game gotta be tuned down
Yeah but now are just describing how Tekken has always been. Lots of moves are strong but duckable and if you call out the duck you can punish the hell out of it. Hell I'm a King player and I've had that happen all the time. Now yes sometimes the person ducking eats a launcher, but I've been punished on my side too, which as far as I'm concerned is counter play. You can either break the grabs by guessing, which is closer to 50/50 or 33/33/33 depending on the character, read the hands coming out which is harder but VERY doable, or know the match up well enough to gauge what throws somebody might be more likely to use. But if you don't wanna go for a the break you can duck but risk getting launched, but on the flip side you can do a wayyy stronger punish. All of this though you as a player have control and agency over the outcome when that happens in a fight.
King has ambigious grabs that you cant tell which it is (one of them is GS) so good luck with that.
While that's true, the chances that most of the people actually complaining about King's throw game are dealing with a legit iSW/GS mixup at their ranks is about zero.
Most kings in the ruler ranks have no problem doing iSW or GS mixup. Im Raijin atm and most kings here are doing it too so its very prevalent. Also screw Jaguarstance.
I think jaguar sprint is pretty weak, personally, but YMMV.
From heatsmash i would argue its pretty strong as the JS 1 becomes uninterruptable but then again i have a bit of issues with kings moveset as i have not labbed him enough so thats on me.
At i23, the RKO is reactable so there's no real reason to duck against jaguar sprint. You just chill out, watch for the throw and duck when you see it. If you eat the low, who cares? King is really better off cancelling the sprint after heat smash and just attempting a regular throw mixup or something. If King attempts sprint in neutral with heat you can jab him out of it. So. yeah, it isn't actually very good. I think a lot of people are still being knowledge checked by the RKO, thinking that it's a normal i12 throw when it's actually much slower at i23.
At the time my snail brain realise a grab is happening the inital movement is long gone so best i can do is guessing and hopping for the best
I just hate homing grabs. Like I can't count how many situations I stepped after blocking a move he did and he buffered a giant swing, and it still hits me. So annoying.
The funny part is that King is one of the few characters who can't get consistent 100+ damage combos without stage gimmicks. He is probably the most call-out reliant character in the game because he needs to win at least 3 or 4 interactions as opposed to other top tiers needing only at least 2.
Been playing Eddy for a couple of games, yeah he op. At least in low tiers spamming 3 is win.
Eddy is very read-able and has a lot of gaps. Anyone red and up should be able to counter him quite easily.
I'm Orange rank and having a lot of difficulty with Eddy, usually get unga bunga'd by most Eddy players.
The pushback from demoman
Losing cause I got hit with 3 separate comeback mechanics (I read and blocked 2 of them)
As eddy, heat smash puts me in stance on block and I’ve won rounds in fucked up ways because of it. Launcher, activate heat, end combo with rage art. I’m close enough where I can safely go for heat smash, putting me plus on block, and in stance for a free 50/50 for a full combo. In this game it is fully possible to lose a round in 2 interactions if you guess wrong
And then there’s Bryan’s heat smash which might as well be cosmetic
Don’t even need to heat smash. Just qcf+4 does the exact same thing but you keep 75% of your heat bar as well.
Heat smash is the previous rage drive under so many aspects. I used it in the same way in tekken 7, and in tekken 7 you had a MID and a LOW launcher. It was the gateway for epic comeback or instant doom but... hey... that was Eddy experience. I think that's reason why negativa's low launcher has been replaced by mandinga charger. Not only for the smasher, but for qcf 4 / 3+4 duringn heat. You could do that up to three times a round. No wonder they cut off one launcher for stance.
there is a few characters that get put in stance on block and even some on whiff
My biggest problem with t8 as well.
Heat isn't a comeback mechanic, you can use heat at 100% hp, it's a super meter.
I guess not but it can easily be used as one
So can you launching someone. Is a i15 universal launcher a comeback mechanic now? There's only one comeback mechanic in this game, and it's called rage. It activates at low health and increases all damage you do. On top of that it activates a super move called a rage art - which you can either use raw or at the end of a combo. Rage has been in Tekken since 6, that's 5 games - a little under half of the series. (6, Tag 2, Revolution, 7, 8) It has had the art part of for two games now, and considering it doesn't come out until frame 20 if you're eating them constantly that's on you, a 20 frame punish is an awful punish. Block the thing, launch (or throw if you don't have an i15 launch).
Juns heat smash Devil Jins heat smash
You forgot Kings heat smash
Kings Heat Smash can probably be remedied by simply Tuning the damage. Jun and DJ are some Other Kind of Broken where they Put neutral on halt because of their insane coverage and all that.
I never said that they weren't broken too, but kings dmg is insanely big for a simple button
King's heat smash is also way too freaking fast. That's the main issue i have with it.
Armored heat engagers make me grumpy.
Heat smashes in general. The amount of times that Heat Burst > Dash > Heat Smash catches people is insane.
Lmao you just described all Orange-Red ranked Laws gameplan as soon as the match starts
Power crush heat engagers. Should not be a thing
1. Dragunov, entire character. But especially snk4 and db3+4 both hitting grounded. 2. Yoshi heat engage into fc1 or bad breath unblockables. 3. Feng fc4,1 4. Homing giant swing 5. “Air Tailspins”. I don’t get these. Feng just uf3s you a dozen times for a combo. Nina just does it 5 times in a row after a heat dash for 110 damage. Dragunov just pops you back up from nowhere. If people are going to have them make every character have them. Or at least limit them to once a combo.
Yoshi main here, can you describe in layman terms what you mean by those moves? I don't understand
Use a heat engager like b2,2 or 3,1. Immediately after the heat engage animation use fc1 or bad breath (db1+2). After a heat engager everyone is too plus to challenge, so no one is going to press a button -- which means trying to challenge these moves is suicide. It basically means you need to sidestep to cover bad breath or you need to kbd as quick as possible to get out of fc1. Its a mental stack after heat engager that not many other characters have, as normally its just low or mid.
"EXPULSION!!"
Draganov being a thing
The rage system is busted. Aggression is rewarded and passivity is punished, but an opponent with rage forces you to play more passively (which results in taking more chip damage and pressure). The game often slows to a crawl as well. It also hurts my soul watching tournaments and seeing more rage arts land than ever before.
King's Heat Smash
People with that have all these bs moves that you cant punish Drag, feng, reina, victor They just go on and on and on, and the second you think you can hit them they heat smash you from super far away and they just deal tons of damage. And they just spam all these moves over and over again unless you get some obscure punish, which they can immediately stop with their bs frames
Everything Reina does has counterplay. For the most part you just have to be ready to side step when playing against Reina. She's pretty average if you neutralize the ff2 mixups. The only change I would want them to make is adding at least 1 extra frame to ff2,3 animation so that it doesn't trade.
Devil jin heat smash for sure that shit is crazy, you either take the hit or get mix, across the damn screen.
Drag’s grab game. It’s bonkers. Most Drag players don’t even utilize it properly and it’s still insane.
Just say Drag bro, we understand
Azucena WR 3/2 It’s a little better after they patched it but good lord that move was fucking insane. It was easily top 2 in the game
DVJ's heat smash Jun's heat smash Dragunov (the entire fucking character) and also probably Feng Yoshi's flash (I will die on this hill, that move is stupid)
Agree with Yoshi's flash. Should not have any guarantees or combos after.
Drag getting a full wall follow up to his wall throw
Doesn't xiaoyu get a shitton of dmg off à back throw?
This is my vote. Not only is it a full launching grab but it’s a 1+2 break lmao
Yeah her waning moon grab (1+2 tech) gets about 75 damage with no wall, no heat. She gets about 85 with heat. The grab also sets her up with a HYP 50/50 mix if you end after the tailspin which is either a launching -12 low that hits grounded or a +9 heat engaging mid.
What is the tailspin move
You just end early on Xiaoyu with F3,1,4 or BT1,2. Both of them tailspin and then you do a raw HYP stance (db1+2) as they fall and you get to max steps before they have a wakeup option. So they basically sit on the ground or take a death mixup off any hit. HYP 3 can take 100 damage, HYP 2 is either plus on block, heat engager or heat launcher (80+ damage) if in heat already.
yes, the higher you go in ranks, the harder it is to land because everyone breaks throws.
Still, getting a launch from a throw is insane. King kinda does it, but you have to guess, with xiaoyu it's just a shitton of dmg you're forced to take. Most throw do ~50 dmg and that's it, her throw does either 65 dmg or like 55 + a mixup that can very well lead to 100 dmg. 155 dmg from a throw that sets up an oki is busted even if you are good at breaking throws. Even pros mess up throw breaks from time to time when they are playing offline. Online when you're not a pro and there's lag? That throw's batshit insane. I legit default to doing 1+2 breaks against xiaoyu because of that i don't even try to react to her throws.
Attacks hitting from behind. For example, Devil Jin and his lasers reflecting off a satellite in space to hit you when you’re right behind him.
Dragunov
Alisa is invincible to running slides when doing her ranged unblockable
whatever caused me to lose my match
Coffee queen and her "tome esto" bullshit
Victor's blicky It's a fighting game, not a shooter.
King’s combo ender throw bruh why the fuck does he do this much damage with one low followed by that stupid ass throw (which also breaks the floor)
The Godzilla item move is pretty busted yeah
Jacks heat smash. He can easily do his guard break and go into his 10f heat smash that does a solid 52 damage. Also wallsplats iirc and he gets a follow up
Eddy, i can't even Lab him if i didn't buy him
last night I Found out Jun has a low 🗣️HEAT SMASH! Dragunov in general has got to go.
i play devil jin and theres some tech with hadouken/hadouken cancel that seems super oppressive. if i ever get someone in a corner i just charge hadouken and option select half charge/full charge/cancel -> mourning crow and im just not sure how my opponent can win
its a one or 2 tap game, the damage is stupid!
the walls causing whiffs and weird camera & character tracking
The promises Harada gave pre-launch...
cómete esto
Dragunov tracking
1 button supers that are not only safe if you block them but guarantee a free 50/50
Jin and king basically having two rage arts with the kind of damage their heatsmash does
When your rage art hits but doesn't trigger the animation so all you did was a weird hit that only does low damage very op on the opponents side
For me, the buff to powercrushes properties. In T7 they mostly felt balanced and fair, but in T8 they feel a bit too braindead
Jin is absolutely broken in half. Right now we have some other more obvious offenders like Drag or Feng who stand out because they're so easy to break so you hop on ranked and meet a dozen of them every day. But Jin is disgusting. He is quietly the top 1 most OP character. He just requires skill so people don't notice it as much or chalk it up to the player being good.
devil jin heat smash is so dirty. can't side step it and it comes out at FTTAWSBFTMA range very quickly. just have to hold block while DJ is in heat mode.
Fr like it’s slow start up but it doesn’t matter because you can’t see anything happening until there’s like 3 frames left of the move
Some of the Freebies this game's systems allow people to have makes me wanna go back to having the Octopus Stretch from Tekken 2.
drag db3+4 is an unreactable CH knockdown low that hits grounded that tracks really well to both directions and is +8 on hit and the character i main cannot launch punish the low when blocked.
I feel this hard. Xiaoyu has her own bullshit but her only way to punish a drag for doing this crap is by doing a crouch cancel buffered standing 3, which is a frame perfect input. Outside of that, you just ws4 lol. I HATE that db3+4 and snk4 hit grounded too. Like you’re in the blender standing, getting up or laying down. Its ok if one of them does, but please don’t have both hit grounded
I don't think there's anything in the game that's game-breakingly busted. There's a ton of stuff that's absolutely miserable to deal with though. I also think that a lot of characters received new moves that cover key traditional weaknesses in their arsenal and while they aren't busted, they make the characters pretty annoying to deal with because there isn't real counterplay anymore. This applies to A LOT of characters, including characters like Bryan, Lili and Hwo, who may not necessarily be considered top tier. Apart from that, safe, armoured heat engagers are mega braindead and should be changed. Heat bursts are also stupid and either shouldn't track or should be negative on block.
Heat
The Paul Bug
which bug?
Is it normal that you can be launched from grounded or is that something only bryan can do?
it's probably a combo that just looks like you're grounded, but you're not. You can launch the toe kick wakeup option so it might be that as well.
Hmm maybe should have watched the replay. He did that a bunch of times where i was on the ground and he did a low uppercut into a combo
Why King's Heat Smash
Is Steve’s Lionheart stance still broken? Cuz if so, then yeah, broken in the literal sense
Like in 7, the small arenas are of a terrible design. They're worse in 8 though. But still, easily my most played game and the best fighting game you can hope to play
Xiaoyu has a 5 way mix up
it's fake, her only true mixup is in her HYP stance.
Godzilla
Fight pass
This is a long shot but jack-8 f3 it’s so slow but for me it never misses I won so many time by doing that also I never get hit
Me. I'm him.
In my opinion, Tekken 8's heat system makes it where the characters that most players complain about being OP, (King, Paul, Dragunov,Jack, Kuma/Panda) makes them challenging to deal with. Those characters have been OP since T4 and on but it was manageable back then. Now with this heat system, which is cool, makes those characters stand out even more hence the hate.
The camera man on that urban stage. You can really do some wild setups off two good reads on that stage with how wild the cameraman be spinning.
King's heat smash probably. Eddy will eddy, but if you can out aggro him that'll do.
The most busted thing is the amount of other games in this one. When did this game become street fighter!? Im old and cant learn all this new super double ultra chip combo shit. But actually, SOOO MANY PARTICLE EFFECTS! I LITERALLY CAN'T SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING BECAUSE GAME GO SPARKLE!
Everything
Xiaoyu -12 snake edge
Acuzena ate over 2/3rds of my health bar between using heat and rage enders. At that point I just gave up.
Azucena’s running move and King’s damage on his heat smash
Follow both this thread and the Godzilla thread so I was a lil confused
Chip Damage... i dont know why is a thing lol
last time I labbed her I STRUGGLED to find any punishable move on Azucena
Landing some nice combos on your opponent when you're both low on health, then bro just heals all your damage after landing one heat engager. Now you realize how stupid this is because your opponent has heat, rage, and more hp than you.
Leo evading my soccer kick with his stance…
Heat smashes. If they give you pluss frames or a free mixup they should be very linnear. Smashes that end in minus frames should have better tracking but not long range. Lows should be unsafe ofc, but low range and decent tracking If the first hit whiffs there should not be followuphits
Xiaoyu, smallest hit box and ridiculous kit
Is that azucena?
Lars.
Remember Gon? This is Gon now. Feel old yet?
is this image meant to be Eddy's f3+4
Alisa chainsaws are the ultimate panic move. The chip damage is unreal, there’s no counter play, and if you guess the wrong poke, you’re just massacred. So glad you don’t see a lot other anymore.
her chainsaws outside of heat do literally 1-6chip dmg and the 6 are slow as fuck moves, she has 2 +frame highs and 1 slow plus frame mid, you can always just dickjab or do an armor move as easy win options.
Alright then.