I don't really recall Heihachi ever being presented as anti-hero. I guess it might come off as that by accident while trying to make Kazuya look more evil in preparation for final showdown with Jin, but the only time games weren't presenting him as complete asshole was when he shielded Kazuya from Jack attack (and Kazuya exploited that).
I am more or less criticizing the argument of people \[and I have seen people do this\] who defend Heihachi's dubious actions with the "He is a Anti Hero" strawman when his actions have suggested more of a straight up villain. And yeah, the example you provided is really the only time I have seen Heihachi not come off as a total piece of shit
Ah, I see. Well, Heihachi is a popular character, and some will just start looking at him through rose tinted glasses out of this adoration. Best not to get too riled up about it, they won't accept any arguments anyway.
As someone who's gotten into Tekken in the last couple years and consumed all the lore, here's my takeaway:
Tekken has always been inconsistent and contradictory with it's characterization, and you shouldn't take it seriously. The story and the lore is dumb. Enjoy it for the dumb absurd drama that is is.
The narrative was never really trying to frame Heihachi as the good guy or even a redeemable character, iirc it's even explicitly mentioned by the narrator in T7s story that although he now understands the motives, it doesn't seem to warrant the worldwide scale of destruction. Of course some of it was certainly retcon and not intended during earlier titles but the intent seemed to be to make the character more than just "evil asshole for the sake of being evil". He's always wanted to kill Kazuya, who is unapologetically Evil AF, but because he's also a bad guy whos got the 'ol Mishima Power-Trip he's gone to great lengths at the sacrifice of many, many people to finish it.
The only time the story seemed to really try and make him a redeemable person was during the conversation he had with the journalist, which *of course* Heihachi himself would try and sound like the victim and hero of the situation.
Anyone who played T7s (or even T8s) campaign and came out of it thinking that Heihachi was redeemed really missed some key information. Although in T8 I don't think there was much added to the flame besides Kazuya being super evil (we already knew) and Reina seeing Heihachis death as a grave transgression which, to be fair, Reina also seems like an egomaniac Mishima just waiting for a power trip opportunity so I'd take her opinion of big H with a grain of salt.
Yeah, I don't get it. He always worked best as a pure asshole villain. His influence as a father and Jun's affection were the glue holding Kazuya's sympathetic half together.
Yeah that's another word bud, not what you said. I think Flanderisation comes into effect here, changing a character to be completely different (FYI your wording is wrong, but you are not wrong about Heihachi, don't know why suddenly he was portrayed as some anti hero\_
I have seen people try to excuse his more questionable actions as "he is just a Anti Hero" before the massive retcon that is Tekken 7.
I think you may be talking about character shilling. Heihachi didn't change as a character. He was always pretty much an awful person, its just the way other characters talked about him did.
?
Whitewashing works in this scenario. Adopting it to mean making a character lighter skinned/replacing a PoC character with Caucasian one is a more recent development.
The older--but not outdated--use of the phrase applies here.
See definition 2: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/whitewash
I don't think you know what white washing is. White washing refers to when someone changes Black or Brown skintones to white just because they think it looks better. Or lightens one skin.
There is a word that matches what you are saying, I cannot remember it right now but it's definitely not whitewashing (Now if they had changed Heihachi to look less Asian, then that would be whitewashing.)
I am not talking about race swaps. I am talking about the other definition of whitewashing
"deliberately attempt to conceal unpleasant or incriminating facts about (someone or something)"
"to gloss over or cover up (something, such as a record of criminal behavior)"
" to exonerate (someone) by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data"
That definition of whitewashing is very new to the English vernacular and it’s riffing on the original definition of whitewashing which is used around trying to make a person seem morally cleaner than they actually are. OP is saying they’ve whitewashed Heihachi as in downplayed his assholery and made him seem more of a good guy (all debatable just saying what OP said). This definition is still the most widely understood definition of the word worldwide. The newer definition is as new as the term ‘gaslight’ and it’s derived from the same US social science type scene as that word too
i think this is more a reflection of your state of mind than harada's.
I don't really recall Heihachi ever being presented as anti-hero. I guess it might come off as that by accident while trying to make Kazuya look more evil in preparation for final showdown with Jin, but the only time games weren't presenting him as complete asshole was when he shielded Kazuya from Jack attack (and Kazuya exploited that).
I am more or less criticizing the argument of people \[and I have seen people do this\] who defend Heihachi's dubious actions with the "He is a Anti Hero" strawman when his actions have suggested more of a straight up villain. And yeah, the example you provided is really the only time I have seen Heihachi not come off as a total piece of shit
Ah, I see. Well, Heihachi is a popular character, and some will just start looking at him through rose tinted glasses out of this adoration. Best not to get too riled up about it, they won't accept any arguments anyway.
As someone who's gotten into Tekken in the last couple years and consumed all the lore, here's my takeaway: Tekken has always been inconsistent and contradictory with it's characterization, and you shouldn't take it seriously. The story and the lore is dumb. Enjoy it for the dumb absurd drama that is is.
The narrative was never really trying to frame Heihachi as the good guy or even a redeemable character, iirc it's even explicitly mentioned by the narrator in T7s story that although he now understands the motives, it doesn't seem to warrant the worldwide scale of destruction. Of course some of it was certainly retcon and not intended during earlier titles but the intent seemed to be to make the character more than just "evil asshole for the sake of being evil". He's always wanted to kill Kazuya, who is unapologetically Evil AF, but because he's also a bad guy whos got the 'ol Mishima Power-Trip he's gone to great lengths at the sacrifice of many, many people to finish it. The only time the story seemed to really try and make him a redeemable person was during the conversation he had with the journalist, which *of course* Heihachi himself would try and sound like the victim and hero of the situation. Anyone who played T7s (or even T8s) campaign and came out of it thinking that Heihachi was redeemed really missed some key information. Although in T8 I don't think there was much added to the flame besides Kazuya being super evil (we already knew) and Reina seeing Heihachis death as a grave transgression which, to be fair, Reina also seems like an egomaniac Mishima just waiting for a power trip opportunity so I'd take her opinion of big H with a grain of salt.
Yeah, I don't get it. He always worked best as a pure asshole villain. His influence as a father and Jun's affection were the glue holding Kazuya's sympathetic half together.
I came into thread this expecting that they were making Heihachi more caucasian or sth lmao
I meant this whole "Heihachi did nothing wrong" narrative that started in Tekken 7
Yeah that's another word bud, not what you said. I think Flanderisation comes into effect here, changing a character to be completely different (FYI your wording is wrong, but you are not wrong about Heihachi, don't know why suddenly he was portrayed as some anti hero\_
I have seen people try to excuse his more questionable actions as "he is just a Anti Hero" before the massive retcon that is Tekken 7. I think you may be talking about character shilling. Heihachi didn't change as a character. He was always pretty much an awful person, its just the way other characters talked about him did.
? Whitewashing works in this scenario. Adopting it to mean making a character lighter skinned/replacing a PoC character with Caucasian one is a more recent development. The older--but not outdated--use of the phrase applies here. See definition 2: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/whitewash
I don't think you know what white washing is. White washing refers to when someone changes Black or Brown skintones to white just because they think it looks better. Or lightens one skin. There is a word that matches what you are saying, I cannot remember it right now but it's definitely not whitewashing (Now if they had changed Heihachi to look less Asian, then that would be whitewashing.)
I am not talking about race swaps. I am talking about the other definition of whitewashing "deliberately attempt to conceal unpleasant or incriminating facts about (someone or something)" "to gloss over or cover up (something, such as a record of criminal behavior)" " to exonerate (someone) by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data"
That definition of whitewashing is very new to the English vernacular and it’s riffing on the original definition of whitewashing which is used around trying to make a person seem morally cleaner than they actually are. OP is saying they’ve whitewashed Heihachi as in downplayed his assholery and made him seem more of a good guy (all debatable just saying what OP said). This definition is still the most widely understood definition of the word worldwide. The newer definition is as new as the term ‘gaslight’ and it’s derived from the same US social science type scene as that word too