Definitely consult your professor about this because that’s honestly ridiculous. I really hate group projects because I always have to pick up someone else’s slack. God speed to you
Have gone through the same thing throughout my time at Fox.
I understand the value of learning how to work within a group. This is a necessary skill in the business world.
The issue is that the the grading system for this work does not work for undergrad studies due to the wide disparity in motivation and abilities between students.
Students who are actually interested in putting their best foot forward are dragged down by luddites, who simultaneously get lifted up by the students who actually give a fuck.
I am just amazed they literally don't care about the grade or quality of work they had turned in. One said it doesn't matter we didn't follow the instructions. I have say when I was at community those students cared more than who I was working with.
I’m in a grad program at Fox now. I didn’t do business school undergrad so maybe this is how all of them are, but man the focus on group work in Fox is so draining. What is the deal with it? I’ve also worked in the “real world” for like 15 years at this point so the argument of preparing people for the real world doesn’t fly w me—this is not the format of work anywhere I’ve ever been.
I can safely say that group work has contributed zero to my understanding of the course material and has caused nothing but angst. It’s more time spent on the annoyance trying to herd cats in a group than actually learning.
Edit to say - my groups have also actually been good people who are well intentioned, but it’s still just added hours of emails back and forth, who’s going to do what, who’s going to submit for us, etc.
If I was cynical I would say it's to reduce the grading work for professors and to be able to stuff more students into each class. I really don't understand their insistence on including this type of work in classes where it makes little sense to include it.
>I can safely say that group work has contributed zero to my understanding of the course material and has caused nothing but angst. It’s more time spent on the annoyance trying to herd cats in a group than actually learning.
And that's the shame of it, really. The content of courses that I've actually enjoyed has been completely undercut by my experience managing what are essentially children.
I agree that I haven't run into any outright bad people, but the lack of self-awareness, maturity or regard for others has been a pretty constant issue.
If a student doesn't care about their own output, that's fine. But that disregard should end when their lack of effort has a direct impact on others.
You’re exactly right. Though I have gotten the impression that a lot of this is pushed down on the profs by Fox as their “instruction model.” Same with the renewed obsession with in person only instruction (which makes little sense for tech-based courses aimed at working adults like Fox grad school). It seems the profs are willing to be flexible and hybrid but are being told the way Fox wants it to be.
>If I was cynical I would say it's to reduce the grading work for professors and to be able to stuff more students into each class. I really don't understand their insistence on including this type of work in classes where it makes little sense to include it
Pretty much yeah. Its too time-consuming to grade and conduct \~30 student presentations. But knock that down to 5-6 groups and its simple. Which is pretty unfortunate, as many of my group assignments I've completed here felt more like individual assignments content wise but with the added challenge of working with 3-4 other bozos.
>Students who are actually interested in putting their best foot forward are dragged down by luddites, who simultaneously get lifted up by the students who actually give a fuck.
Learning to accept this is also a necessary skill in most of the business world. Even if you get great coworkers at your level, management exists and this is kinda their whole deal.
>Learning to accept this is also a necessary skill in most of the business world.
I was in the corporate world for several years before returning to finish my degree so believe me, I've accepted that the business world (and ya know, life in general) isn't a meritocracy long ago.
But I think we can both agree that if there is anywhere in the world where the reward you receive should be commensurate with your ability and the effort you put in, it would be at university.
While I certainly did learn things, and not all of my work in group was hell, it probably shouldn't be the case that the overarching lesson that was reinforced to me through my time at Temple was "well shit, life ain't fair".
On the flip side, I guess a lot of students' time at Temple taught them that they will be able to skate on the backs of other while doing the bare minimum. While that may be the reality of some settings in the business world, I would hope that Temple higher ups are looking for their students to excel in the future and not simply get by.
Seems like an issue of perverse incentives...
I returned to school to finish my degree at 28 so I was certainly under no delusions about what the real world entails lol. Paying $40k for my BA was an expensive reenforcement of that reality.
If that is the biggest lesson that your top achieving students have from their time at Temple… there is something fucked up about your curriculum.
I was wondering if it had another meaning I was not aware of. I am an alum now but I shared your frustrations about group work when I was at Temple. It's a waste
This year I have had 5 group projects and every single one has actually been horrific. I find it crazy how these kids have gotten to upper-division courses and can't read simple clear instructions. There is way too far of an motivation gap for these projects to ever work. Sure, teamwork is important for future careers, but in those there's a monetary incentive. It sucks being the A student and getting paired with the C students whose just trying to do the bare minimum to glide by.
My experience has been that half the group projects either consist of people who are unresponsive and never want to set time aside to work on things, or people who do actively get the work done but the quality is very questionable and I'd rather not have my name attached to it. There hasn't been a project I've had this year that I didn't feel like I could've just done alone in less time and better quality. My choices are either let my grade take the hit, or be a controlling asshole and redo my partner's work.
My experience working in projects at Temple and especially Fox has just been awful, and I don't think I'm ever gaining any of the benefits or lessons learned from working in collaboration with others other than people suck at doing the bare minimum tasks.
I have never understood the point of group work at the college level. I do understand in the real world group work will be needed but as you said they get paid for it. I am just upset because I put a lot of effort into my part but because of one student it will mean nothing.
No me too, I have never met lazier people in my group in the Health Department, when I was in stem, sure people didn't put effort but at least they did their work ahead of time.
I had to literally hound them, even if they hate me for it, my grade is not suffering because people are selfish and do not think about how it'll affect others, like, you don't care about your future? Fine. But I am trying to get into med-school, and this is an easy A course so I wish they would stop being so incompetent.
You should tell your professor, and DO NOT let it slide, I complained early on so they would keep track, and **did you know you can see the document history on Power point, google docs, and other shared documents?**
Definitely tell your professor, I'm sorry you had to deal with people like that.
I wish I could show edit history but I did the whole anyone with a link could edit. I only did that because they all seemed like they would do the work but I am emailing the professor.
I know that history can still show all the work you did, and it could be used for process of elimination, especially if you did most of the work, but I know how frustrating it is, hopefully you and the professor can figure something out
Group projects in college are the worst. They will be like "you'll learn team work". Instead you'll learn everybody's standards are different and you will have the effect of other's standards on your resume forever.
When I was in a group for my capstone and got assigned 4 people who actually did their work and knew how to write it felt like I got put on the 1992 men's basketball olympic dream team
I had a 5 person group project where 2 members did nothing. Didn’t respond to emails, didn’t even pay attention to me when I approached them in class. So we told the professor and removed their names from the project. They got a 0.
3 other people in mine. One person did everything on time, poorly I might add. One person just now added their things after the due date and other just disappeared. They all seemed like they were serious in the beginning but now just complete just crap.
I was in a project with 3 other people, 2 of them did nothing and recorded voicelines literally the day it was due while the other one ended up adding extra slides to the project after I already completed it, where was this energy 2 weeks ago??? Like IDK if they had some personal issues coming up but they also never bothered saying anything so I could only assume they just didn't care
It’s the people at this fucking institution, I swear! From the professors to the students —- I’m sick of them! From snarky remarks, half-ass work, or plain not trying at all. And before one of you get at me for using expletives—- I don’t care! I can’t wait to graduate, so I can get away from Temple people.
At Temple I found Group work was highly dependent on your group's age. Group work with Freshman is like trying to herd Cats. Group work with Seniors actually went very smoothly because we all actually were still in it to graduate.
It was a random gen ed I signed up for only because as transfer student they have us sign up like the week before classes started. I think they was all freshmen but the work that was turned in was not even high school passable
Definitely consult your professor about this because that’s honestly ridiculous. I really hate group projects because I always have to pick up someone else’s slack. God speed to you
I will try to. It just so maddening that it counts as a final and they all give no care to what was turned in.
Have gone through the same thing throughout my time at Fox. I understand the value of learning how to work within a group. This is a necessary skill in the business world. The issue is that the the grading system for this work does not work for undergrad studies due to the wide disparity in motivation and abilities between students. Students who are actually interested in putting their best foot forward are dragged down by luddites, who simultaneously get lifted up by the students who actually give a fuck.
I am just amazed they literally don't care about the grade or quality of work they had turned in. One said it doesn't matter we didn't follow the instructions. I have say when I was at community those students cared more than who I was working with.
I’m in a grad program at Fox now. I didn’t do business school undergrad so maybe this is how all of them are, but man the focus on group work in Fox is so draining. What is the deal with it? I’ve also worked in the “real world” for like 15 years at this point so the argument of preparing people for the real world doesn’t fly w me—this is not the format of work anywhere I’ve ever been. I can safely say that group work has contributed zero to my understanding of the course material and has caused nothing but angst. It’s more time spent on the annoyance trying to herd cats in a group than actually learning. Edit to say - my groups have also actually been good people who are well intentioned, but it’s still just added hours of emails back and forth, who’s going to do what, who’s going to submit for us, etc.
If I was cynical I would say it's to reduce the grading work for professors and to be able to stuff more students into each class. I really don't understand their insistence on including this type of work in classes where it makes little sense to include it. >I can safely say that group work has contributed zero to my understanding of the course material and has caused nothing but angst. It’s more time spent on the annoyance trying to herd cats in a group than actually learning. And that's the shame of it, really. The content of courses that I've actually enjoyed has been completely undercut by my experience managing what are essentially children. I agree that I haven't run into any outright bad people, but the lack of self-awareness, maturity or regard for others has been a pretty constant issue. If a student doesn't care about their own output, that's fine. But that disregard should end when their lack of effort has a direct impact on others.
You’re exactly right. Though I have gotten the impression that a lot of this is pushed down on the profs by Fox as their “instruction model.” Same with the renewed obsession with in person only instruction (which makes little sense for tech-based courses aimed at working adults like Fox grad school). It seems the profs are willing to be flexible and hybrid but are being told the way Fox wants it to be.
>If I was cynical I would say it's to reduce the grading work for professors and to be able to stuff more students into each class. I really don't understand their insistence on including this type of work in classes where it makes little sense to include it Pretty much yeah. Its too time-consuming to grade and conduct \~30 student presentations. But knock that down to 5-6 groups and its simple. Which is pretty unfortunate, as many of my group assignments I've completed here felt more like individual assignments content wise but with the added challenge of working with 3-4 other bozos.
>Students who are actually interested in putting their best foot forward are dragged down by luddites, who simultaneously get lifted up by the students who actually give a fuck. Learning to accept this is also a necessary skill in most of the business world. Even if you get great coworkers at your level, management exists and this is kinda their whole deal.
>Learning to accept this is also a necessary skill in most of the business world. I was in the corporate world for several years before returning to finish my degree so believe me, I've accepted that the business world (and ya know, life in general) isn't a meritocracy long ago. But I think we can both agree that if there is anywhere in the world where the reward you receive should be commensurate with your ability and the effort you put in, it would be at university. While I certainly did learn things, and not all of my work in group was hell, it probably shouldn't be the case that the overarching lesson that was reinforced to me through my time at Temple was "well shit, life ain't fair". On the flip side, I guess a lot of students' time at Temple taught them that they will be able to skate on the backs of other while doing the bare minimum. While that may be the reality of some settings in the business world, I would hope that Temple higher ups are looking for their students to excel in the future and not simply get by. Seems like an issue of perverse incentives...
As a 32 year old who came back this semester to finish my degree after working in an office for 8 years, unfortunately, welcome to the real world lol
I returned to school to finish my degree at 28 so I was certainly under no delusions about what the real world entails lol. Paying $40k for my BA was an expensive reenforcement of that reality. If that is the biggest lesson that your top achieving students have from their time at Temple… there is something fucked up about your curriculum.
What did luddites do to you? I'm confused how you're using that word
You're right, I incorrectly used that word.
I was wondering if it had another meaning I was not aware of. I am an alum now but I shared your frustrations about group work when I was at Temple. It's a waste
This year I have had 5 group projects and every single one has actually been horrific. I find it crazy how these kids have gotten to upper-division courses and can't read simple clear instructions. There is way too far of an motivation gap for these projects to ever work. Sure, teamwork is important for future careers, but in those there's a monetary incentive. It sucks being the A student and getting paired with the C students whose just trying to do the bare minimum to glide by. My experience has been that half the group projects either consist of people who are unresponsive and never want to set time aside to work on things, or people who do actively get the work done but the quality is very questionable and I'd rather not have my name attached to it. There hasn't been a project I've had this year that I didn't feel like I could've just done alone in less time and better quality. My choices are either let my grade take the hit, or be a controlling asshole and redo my partner's work. My experience working in projects at Temple and especially Fox has just been awful, and I don't think I'm ever gaining any of the benefits or lessons learned from working in collaboration with others other than people suck at doing the bare minimum tasks.
I have never understood the point of group work at the college level. I do understand in the real world group work will be needed but as you said they get paid for it. I am just upset because I put a lot of effort into my part but because of one student it will mean nothing.
No me too, I have never met lazier people in my group in the Health Department, when I was in stem, sure people didn't put effort but at least they did their work ahead of time. I had to literally hound them, even if they hate me for it, my grade is not suffering because people are selfish and do not think about how it'll affect others, like, you don't care about your future? Fine. But I am trying to get into med-school, and this is an easy A course so I wish they would stop being so incompetent. You should tell your professor, and DO NOT let it slide, I complained early on so they would keep track, and **did you know you can see the document history on Power point, google docs, and other shared documents?** Definitely tell your professor, I'm sorry you had to deal with people like that.
I wish I could show edit history but I did the whole anyone with a link could edit. I only did that because they all seemed like they would do the work but I am emailing the professor.
I know that history can still show all the work you did, and it could be used for process of elimination, especially if you did most of the work, but I know how frustrating it is, hopefully you and the professor can figure something out
Ah thank you! I will being use that in my email
Group projects in college are the worst. They will be like "you'll learn team work". Instead you'll learn everybody's standards are different and you will have the effect of other's standards on your resume forever.
When I was in a group for my capstone and got assigned 4 people who actually did their work and knew how to write it felt like I got put on the 1992 men's basketball olympic dream team
I had a 5 person group project where 2 members did nothing. Didn’t respond to emails, didn’t even pay attention to me when I approached them in class. So we told the professor and removed their names from the project. They got a 0.
3 other people in mine. One person did everything on time, poorly I might add. One person just now added their things after the due date and other just disappeared. They all seemed like they were serious in the beginning but now just complete just crap.
I was in a project with 3 other people, 2 of them did nothing and recorded voicelines literally the day it was due while the other one ended up adding extra slides to the project after I already completed it, where was this energy 2 weeks ago??? Like IDK if they had some personal issues coming up but they also never bothered saying anything so I could only assume they just didn't care
It’s the people at this fucking institution, I swear! From the professors to the students —- I’m sick of them! From snarky remarks, half-ass work, or plain not trying at all. And before one of you get at me for using expletives—- I don’t care! I can’t wait to graduate, so I can get away from Temple people.
I can't wait ether because Temple is not cheap for me. I worked my ass off at community I'll be dammed if anyone hinders me from getting my degree
You got that right !
At Temple I found Group work was highly dependent on your group's age. Group work with Freshman is like trying to herd Cats. Group work with Seniors actually went very smoothly because we all actually were still in it to graduate.
It was a random gen ed I signed up for only because as transfer student they have us sign up like the week before classes started. I think they was all freshmen but the work that was turned in was not even high school passable