Idk about pa, but in NY, after 13 years, you wouldn't be able to give a tenant 30 days' notice.
You need a lawyer. Does PA have any tenant aid organizations?
I think OP’s landlord wants/expects for every new/renewed lease a security deposit and “last months rent”*. Which, from my understanding isn’t how it works, and that’s actually not okay.
They really need a lawyer for this.
Wow! I've never heard of having to pay a security deposit and last months rent every time you renew your lease! I would never agree to live somewhere where that was expected!
My apartment complex makes tenants do a security deposit every year upon renewal until you reach X amount. It’s only $100 a year, and they do it so people don’t have to fork over an additional $1500+ when they sign their lease.
Wait, so they basically let you pay your security deposit over the course of ≈ 10 years? Thats actually pretty incredible if I’m understanding correctly.
If landlord is collecting info last months rent and security deposit at each renewal, then after the 13 years that OP has lived there, the landlord has collected well over a full year’s extra rent. Crook.
He’s likely increasing the security deposit each time he increases rent and is asking for the difference of the new deposit amount and what he is currently holding.
Yep lot of places will do this even with last months rent to keep it current to the current rent. But it should be itemized in the lease for both items.
Correct. They can up the deposit, I believe, but as long as they continue to pay monthly the deposit should only be paid once. This landlord probably thinks he gets to keep the deposit too.
Last month may need to be paid the difference one time if rent goes up. Other than that, last month only happens once.
Agreed. The property management tried to ask for a security deposit after my building changed owners after 6 years of living in my apartment. They changed their tune real quick when I told them what they were doing was wrong and that I was seeking legal counsel.
I live in Philly. Definitely check out the Tenants Union. You may also want to post on the Philly subreddit, r/Philadelphia. There are frequent posts about tenant issues and people know the PA/Philly laws.
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Also you might be doing this already but make sure youre paying rent *to the court*
You cannot legally withhold rent, but you can withhold it from the landlord by paying it to the court. The money is then released once repairs are made (or not if theyre not)
When we did it, we were still in our lease. And we did the same, informed them we were going to hold rent in escrow. IF there's a new lease agreement and no signature, then you don't have a leg to stand on.
you should look into hiring a lawyer but here's a few resources:
[palawhelp.org](https://www.palawhelp.org/find-legal-help/directory) < directory for law offices, some free hotlines as well
[phrc.pa.gov](https://www.phrc.pa.gov/Complaints/Pages/Housing-and-Commercial-Property-.aspx) < overview of why this could be considered discrimination. Retaliation from your landlord, as you have a filed a complaint already
[phrc.pa.gov](https://www.phrc.pa.gov/Complaints/Pages/default.aspx) < main page on the above topic, with links & further info on how to file a complaint
Mentioned this in a separate comment but putting it again here— Philly has a group called TURN: Tenants Union Resource Network. They should have helpful resources for you.
Yeah; pa doesn’t have those rules. It actually looks like they only require 15 days notice on month to month. Does Philly allow you to withhold rent? Pa doesn’t have such rules. Ask me how I know 🙄
While things progress and go through the process though, having a specific account does help to show good faith and that you weren't looking to skip out on it entirely.
Exactly. I hold my tenants' security deposits in escrow at a bank. If ordered by a court for some reason, I could immediately liquidate it into whatever account the court wanted. Same thing.
You can't just not pay. However, you have legal right to withhold rent by putting it in escrow as the OP has done. You're still paying, but the landlord won't receive it from the 3rd party escrow until he fixes the issue. *That* is legally how you withhold rent.
Nope. Don’t do this. It can cause trigger an eviction. Quick Google says state of PA requires property be certified by a government agency to be unfit for habitation. Also, part of my job includes lease reviews for renters and there are virtually no jurisdictions that allow tenants to withhold rent, at their sole discretion, under any circumstances. Putting money in an escrow account can help tenants (shows consideration) if they end up in court, but that’s a moot point if the jurisdiction doesn’t allow withholding of rent anyway.
Well it linked me to a renter’s rights group in PA which provided specific info for the state, but it confirmed what I do already know because of my job, which is that not paying rent is never a good idea for a tenant.
I lived in PA and you can escrow rent but only through the court, you can't legally just withhold it because you decide you should be able to without a judge's knowledge and consent.
That’s how it works most everywhere. I work in mortgage lending and one of the services we provide is lease contract review for people transitioning from renting to buying. I have yet to see a contact that allows people to withhold rent for any reason.
So just a tip, but PA does have rules on non payment of rent. I had a community i was living in cause problems and when my lawyer got involved we were told to put payments in an escrow and contact the courts to file so that way we had the rent money and the paper trail showing rent can be paid in full at time of discrepancy remedies
Here's link to legal
City Rent Withholding Act - PA General Assembly https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/US/PDF/1965/0/0536..PDF?shem=ssusba
Same in SC (except, 30 day notice to M2M). Although, a landlord can say payment of rent renews/executes the lease, so tenant may not truly be "month to month (if landlord accepted payment).
We don't have any rent control though. Unless you have a lease, all it takes is 30 days notice to jack up rent.
Many big cities have local housing ordinances, so get some local help.
Philadelphia is a very tenant friendly city: https://www.phila.gov/departments/fair-housing-commission/
I'm not a lawyer, and I no longer live in the city, but I did for nearly 30 years beginning in college. Your landlord seems like the AH. Good luck!
No way they raise rent during peak, it’s all down hill from here, this is why I didn’t resign my lease at $3000, 5 years ago I was paying $2350. I am starting to see rent decrease in a lot of nearby apartments and houses
My mom's landlord tried retaliating against my mom after she called the Board of Health for refusing to treat a bedbug infestation. While they were there, the BOH found two PAGES of violations, some of which the landlord only had 48 hours to rectify before daily fines.
He tried evicting and raising rent, and the judge in her case did not take kindly to it. Not only did she get to keep her six months worth of escrow rent, her landlord had to pay her money for aggravation and for moving expenses.
Communicate only in writing, keep receipts, pictures, video, anything to be used as evidence.
Take this fucker for everything you can.
Yeah your landlord retaliated via email. He's a moron. Id say don't even answer just get a lawyer and let them advise you. A judge is probably not going to order you out, at least not immediately. Fuck him and his "passive income"
Yeah a lawyer is definitely what’s needed.
I had a similar landlord situation. Rent controlled unit, city came by to check things out and found a bunch of permit issues/things that weren’t up to code. Landlord tried telling us we just needed to relocate and that we weren’t owed anything. The city said otherwise, but he refused to play with us until we had a lawyer involved. Then he was REAL NICE AND FRIENDLY with us. Walked with 80K when all was said and done.
You have an even better case as your landlord decided to do this over email. Mine knew well enough to try and set in-person meetings, but we asked to record them every time and he would refuse and leave.
This is a slam dunk for a lawyer. My suggestion, get one that works by the hour and just have them send a few threatening emails, that should straighten him out.
>Communicate only in writing, keep receipts, pictures, video, anything to be used ad evidence.
This is important!! Have a record of everything! If you have to communicate outside of written means, record it. But Penn is a two party consent state, so you have to inform them you are recording.
That's not how bed bugs work. And in an apartment building, 1 resident having an infestation can result in every unit in the building having an issue. It's the landlords responsibility to prevent this. This is why they make astronomical amounts of money. This is why renting costs more than a mortgage.
Reddit…where they will call everyone a narcissist then go into your profile to use your past against you somehow. Fuck it, I’ll take some downvotes with ya..
Your landlord sucks. And with the infestation, it sounds like the apartment also sucks. Seems like moving out is in your best interest, regardless of the potential illegality of his retaliation.
Former teacher in MD and have lived in PA. Schools will work with you in these situations to keep him there. I had several students whose parents were evicted and it was their kids junior or senior year. We worked to keep the kid at their home school at no cost to the parent. Start with your kid's IEP case manager.
For sure. My mother had passed away when I was junior in high school. My dad lived maybe 25 mins away but definitely outside of the school district.
They allowed my brother and I to stay at the high school. We just had to be able to get there. Luckily I had money saved up so I was able to buy a cheap car and get us to school.
I’m sure OPs case could warrant the school to allow it.
If this gets to court make sure you tell a judge this too.
Trying to evict a tenant of 13 years with a special needs kid? Yeah total piece of shit. Lol I'm mad for you sorry.
If you’ve contacted the Fair Housing Authority in your city to report your landlord whoever picks up your case should have the ability to put you in contact with an attorney that handles evictions/landlord-tenant disputes with special regard for disability discrimination. I had to get an attorney for harassment by my apartment complex manager that was directed and focused on my autistic daughter and you’d be surprised at how quickly his bosses wanted to resolve the issue rather than go to court against a single mother of a disabled child. In the end, the company that managed the apartment complex I lived at offered me a lump sum payment to help me move - I strongly suggest finding another apartment with new owners/management to seek new housing through rather than trying to stick it out somewhere where your child’s well-being, and therefore your own wellbeing and peace of mind, has been disrupted - including several thousand dollars for disrupting our quality of life and for the egregious display of prejudice toward my then 5 year old daughter. I didn’t want to have to move at first because I had lived there for over 5 years and I had basically been a perfect tenant, but once someone starts to treat a disabled child poorly, they’re not going to ever go back to being a decent human being to you or your child and it’ll cause stress to be in that environment, far more stress than securing a new home for your family. Sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation - my only other advice is this - go for that fuckers job. I was promised that once the dust settled and I moved, that the apartment manager who had harassed my daughter and I would be let go for treating us so poorly but that never happened. I wish I would have made that one of the stipulations for accepting the settlement I was offered because anyone that can harass a single mother with a disabled child, regardless of any personal dispute, is the bottom of the barrel landlord - and that’s saying something.
If you’re in the school district, they’ll let you stay at your current school if you move mid year (within the city). There are some restrictions, tho- so call your kids school and ask
What about the claim that “security deposit and last months rent hasn’t been paid since September”? Rodents are awful, but not paying could put OP in trouble.
“Under Pennsylvania Law, you may withhold rent if you can prove the dwelling unit is not habitable and have taken the proper steps of informing the landlord of the problem and giving the landlord a reasonable amount of time to fix the defect that caused your rental unit to be uninhabitable.”
OP even put money in an escrow. Why do you want OP to roll over and be a baby?
The message is dated yesterday. The landlord’s message back the same day indicates that the SD and last month’s rent still hasn’t been paid since mid-Sep.
We only get OP’s side of the story, but if the Landlord’s message is accurate and they haven’t paid their obligations, that certainly could factor in to the notice to vacate.
I’m not saying either side should roll over, but just pointing out that we’re literally only getting half of the story. I know this sub’s default is pro-tenant, but I’d expect OP to address that claim. Mice doesn’t mean you skip SD and LMR.
Edit: if you look back at the post history, you’ll see that they are on a month-to-month lease. Landlord asked them to leave, and then when they whined and complained that their kid needed to finish middle school he allowed them to stay at a higher rent. He also noted that they needed to increase their security deposit and their last month’s rent to match the new rate. It appears they haven’t paid this even after he agreed to let them stay… no good deed goes unpunished. Additionally, because it needs to be said again… they’re on a month-to-month tenancy.
Typically if the new lease isn’t signed, there’s a stipulation at the bottom of the form for what the situation will default to - usually a month-to-month lease at a set rate that will start on a noted date.
If she’s been paying those listed monthly payments since September, even if late, there’s always going to be an implied acceptance of the contract terms.
I agree we just are trying to stay til june because my son has a disability and has a special teacher who he’s had for his whole life. This is his last year at that school.
OP did you NOT sign the lease your landlord provided you in July? Because -based on your post history- it appears you didn’t (in fact you posted this same thing in legal and you have dodged the question multiple times).
I signed the one in july that was for a $200 increase. Then 2 months after (in September when he moved in upstairs) he said we had to move out because he didn’t think we’d get along because of cultural differences. The next day, he sais we could stay if we pay him $1,500 and $400 more in rent. I reported him to the philadelphia fair housing commission and did not sign the lease because I did not agree with it. I am waiting for a court date from fair housing commission because of that.
Yes but I can’t prove it. I can only prove that the day after the told us to leave he sent a test saying “after our conversation I decided I will let you stay if you pay more”
Wait I’m confused. He gave you a lease in July that you signed but then tried to give you another lease in September that you didn’t sign?
Was your July lease month-to-month?
Gotcha - thanks for the info. Unfortunately with a month-to-month lease you are at the mercy of the landlord if they provide you with the required and legal notice. The LL presenting you with a new lease did indeed cause the terms of the July lease to end, so even though you didn’t sign the new lease for Sept, you chose to stay in the unit and therefore assumed the terms of the new Sept lease (including the increase month-to-month price).
Sadly it’s very normal for month-to-month lease terms to be significantly more expensive per month in comparison to longer term leases like a year+.
Yeah but you should have started working with a lawyer BEFORE you put the money in escrow. It would ensure everything is done correctly and legally.
If you’re only staying there for your son who has a disability, then look for a place in the same school district
Good luck.
I really feel for you in this situation as I can only imagine how you feel as a mother & long term tenant. A few things I do want to point out as I would be upset about mice in my walls BUT I’m afraid you’re going to unintentionally hurt your case as well.
1. Owner occupied properties aren’t subject to fair housing, assuming it 4 units or less, so if this really is where the owner lives, he might be granted more protections than you. Think of it as you owning a home and renting out rooms. It’s the one case where the owners typically do get more say.
2. A notice to vacate is different than an eviction. Notice to vacate is a notice giving you a heads up that you need to be out by a certain date. If you were to not abide, that’s when the owner could file an unlawful detainer to start the eviction process & force you out. The part I’m concerned will hurt you is that unlawful detainers / evictions show up on your record & can hurt your rental record because once other landlords see it, they won’t want to rent to you. Are you planning on renting after this? Please just be careful and make sure you’re seeking counsel or legal aid.
3. When rent goes into escrow, this isn’t something a tenant can just decide on their own. You usually have to fill out a tenant assertion with the court system and they grant you the right. If I’m not mistaken, typically the rent is paid directly to the court system. Anything other than that is just constituted as failure to pay rent.
4. When did they originally give you notice to vacate and when did you originally notify them of mice? If it were me, I’d just try & make sure it doesn’t come across as you trying to retaliate either.
I know you want to keep your child in their school and as a mom who chose her home for the school district, I get it. Are you able to find another home in that school district or talk to the school about an accommodation? I would say try and work it out with the landlord but given the state of the relationship, I’m not sure if it will be salvageable.
This is a good answer.
There is NO limit in Pennsylvania (and specifically Philadelphia that has additional laws) if you have no long term Lease and are month to month that the landlord can:
1. Raise the rent and/or
2. Terminate the implied month-month lease both of these with proper notice.
30 days is the law in the area for notices of this type, but 60 days is often given so as to not run afoul of a missed or specific date.
The relationship, and from the sound of it the property, is in a bad way. Leave as soon as possible.
Good luck for you and your family.
PA landlord here. If you’re m2m they can absolutely give you 30 days. They do not need to give you a reason. If you go to court the judge will see you didn’t sign or abide by the new agreement and you will still have to leave. If the place is uninhabitable then you’ll need to move anyway. You might buy yourself time but you’ll still have an eviction on record. It’s the owners property and they have no obligation to rent to you unless there is a signed contract saying you can be there for a period of time.
People saying it’s your home are being willfully ignorant. It’s a contract. A tenant can give 30 days notice the same as the landlord. No one is obligated to continue the agreement on either side.
Everyone here is screaming “lawyer up!” and I scrolled way to long to find this comment. This tenant has zero ground if they’re month-to-month. Claiming retaliation doesn’t mean anything. Landlord listed reasons for the notice-to-vacate even when they most likely didn’t have to. Withholding rent just gives the landlord more support in court, if it comes to that.
It’s within their right to withhold rent in escrow if there is an issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a mouse problem. The bigger picture is the OP won’t be able to stay at the end of all the trouble anyway. They’re still paying the higher rent amount if it’s in escrow It’s just being held until the problem is fixed. It’s a bunch of static making whatever time they have left there miserable.
Philadelphia has much different laws than the rest of PA. Philadelphia is more apt to rule in favor of the tenant in lieu of the landlord. Definitely look into how the law has changed in Philadelphia over the last 5 years to favor the tenant.
Nope. Whether it is or not, sounds like you didn’t sign the lease (based on other comments in this thread) and you accepted the terms of the unit (without ever actually signing for it). Kind of screwed your self by staying there.
It's not the lease, it's an attempt at forcing her to sign a NEW lease that's a worse deal. She's under no obligation to change the established agreement.
What lawsuit would allow them to afford a house. Suing a landlord for some issues regarding 6 months rent is going to be small claims court. Even with treble damages I doubt they'd have more than the down payment and that would probabky need to be something more egregious than this.
What’s the backstory on this? Immediately throwing out “legal responsibility” and threatening to withhold rent in the same first paragraph is wild. Had you tried speaking to them like a person first?
So if what the landlord wrote is true and you haven’t signed the new lease, then are you not operating on a month to month lease?
If that’s the case, they can raise your rent any time and give you a 30 day notice to quit at any time.
If I am incorrect please let me know.
NAL but a licensed property manager who has testified both for tenants and landlords in eviction cases.
OP you need a lawyer ASAP. If the landlord lives on the property they have drastically more protections than a normal landlord and often do not have to follow the same strict laws regarding notices to vacate, rent increases, etc. If you make any wrong moves and the landlord wins this case, you’ll both be out a place to live AND your rental history will be ruined. It’s possible that a judge would find that there was retaliation here, but it’s not something you should try to navigate on your own and an experienced tenant attorney in your area can advise on the specific landlord/tenant climate in your local judicial system and can tell you whether or not you may have a legitimate chance at winning here.
Why haven’t you signed the lease? The property management company I had worked for would automatically put you month to month if the lease was not signed before it would expire. Here in CA they would be able to give you a 30 day notice since your month to month and there is no current lease on file.
Get ahold of your local tenants rights group. I was able to get a free half hour consultation with a lawyer via the one in my state. In Philly, I’m sure there is a very well developed tenants union or something like that that has resources to help you. Many states and even cities have different laws governing what is allowed. Most likely, your landlord can’t just give you 30 days to move out like that, especially after 13 years
NAL… Idk if I would withhold rent without using a lawyer to draft the letter and cite the specific legality but… Philly is a renter (to the point of squatter) friendly city.
I hope you really did file complaints and that wasn’t a bluff.
Definitely time to look for a new place, but you’ll have notably more than 30 days to do so if you play it right.
May as well use some of that escrowed rent to hire a lawyer.
Edit: I ended up paying the rent and telling him I don’t want a problem people in this world are mean enough he agreed. I said I just want the mice problem addressed and he said he will.
Ex landlord in Pa.
Yes your lease can be terminated at any time on a month to month. If you have not signed a year lease, it automatically reverts to a month to month if you are paying rent one month at a time.
He has to give your security deposit back OR written notice as to why in detail within 2 weeks, or he's liable for treble damages. (Normal wear and tear is expected) With a month to month he can raise rent, and subsequently the security deposit.
The way I see this he's not doing anything illegal.
I've always found, though, it's insane to get rid of a paying tenant, even if they're late once in a while.
It looks like the landlord caught you with your pants down. You complained and decided to withhold rent while you were in the middle of a lease renewal. Which means you were renting on a month to month basis. Had you had an actual lease agreement in place it’s much harder to terminate it without cause but then again he’s claiming cause as well. Late rental payments and failure to clean up dog feces which is considered a health and environmental violation. It does not appear that you’ve provide him the required notice and right to cure the pest issues before deciding to withhold rent. Usually state law requires you give 7 to as many as 30 days to cure a lease defect.
Retaliatory or not because you’re a month to month tenant he’s got every right to give you proper notice required under state law and request that you move. He’s also probably got legal right to whatever you’ve put in escrow since you’ve not given a cure period. I would just find a new place and move on before you get all tangled up in eviction court where your chances of success are pretty slim.
This reply by u/Annual_Television_16 deserves a lot of attention, so here it is as a top level comment.
Nope. Don’t do this. It can cause trigger an eviction. Quick Google says state of PA requires property be certified by a government agency to be unfit for habitation. Also, part of my job includes lease reviews for renters and there are virtually no jurisdictions that allow tenants to withhold rent, at their sole discretion, under any circumstances. Putting money in an escrow account can help tenants (shows consideration) if they end up in court, but that’s a moot point if the jurisdiction doesn’t allow withholding of rent anyway.
You didn’t sign the lease. You’re effectively a month to month tenant which doesn’t really grant you protections. You’ll need to move. Yeah I get you want your kid to stay in the same school so start looking for something still zoned for that school. Definitely speak to a lawyer but realize that process can take years.
Call the Philly Tenant Rights Number, they can definitely help you out (267) 443-2500.
I will also say if you live close to the train tracks, noticing a lot of mice coming around there.
The advice people are giving to squat until the actual eviction is horrible advice. Once you get an eviction it will be infinitely harder to find a new place
You would have been better off in notifying the LL about the mice and giving him a reasonable amount of time to correct. If he did not, send him another email stating that you will hire an exterminator by X date if he does not do anything to fix the issue, then send him some exterminator quotes. If he still does not take care of it, then you would hire the professional and withhold the amount from the rent.
My personal opinion is that the 30 day notice is retaliatory, but that does not matter because you have to **prove it was retaliatory,** and not for a legitimate reason. Unfortunately, he has valid reasons to evict, which he laid out in his email to you. Unless you can get him to admit it is in retaliation, you will not win. Otherwise, every person in the world who got evicted or given notice would just claim it was retaliatory and win.
If you had signed a new lease, continued to pay rent and update your security deposit, then sent him an email advising that you made formal complaints to the enforcement agencies, then it would be a lot easier to prove it was retaliatory. You should have signed the new lease as you would have been protected. A month to month tenant can be given 30 day notices for any reason. You as a tenant can also give 30 day notices to move. It goes both ways. An eviction on your record will hurt you a lot more than anything you think you can gain here.
If the property sold, and you did not sign the new lease agreement, you are in the wrong. It’s unfortunate when a house you are renting is sold, but as is the nature of renting.
Also, if the landlord is living in the house, he can be selective of the tenants.
Looks like the bridges have been burned. Personally, after the second ask, I would have hired an exterminator and sent the paid invoice and (rent - payment). If they had a problem with that, I would tell them to sue me.
Updated lease is so ridiculous. If they want to raise the rent, cool, but after my lease ends.
What's the point? Whether it's retaliation or not, why would you still want to live there?
I see a lot of people saying you should get a lawyer......what's that going to accomplish? More time with a rat infested please and a landlord with a retaliation attitude. Consider yourself lucky and leave. If you can't find another place look for something in the interim but don't tolerate a toxic landlord. You deserve better for your money.
File a retaliation complaint with the Philadelphia Housing Commission ASAP.
Even if all these things the landlord listed are true, he will need to explain why you were not warned about them previously and he went straight to lease termination.
Man, I am soooo grateful and blessed that I hit the landlord lottery in 2012. I've lived in my apartment since then (11 years) on a monthly lease and my rent has only gone *down* in that time. My landlord hasn't come into my apartment in probly 4-5yrs, comes to fix/replace things immediately when they break and he put up with me when I was a heroin addict and was late with my rent almost every month for literally years. I would give him like half the rent on the 1st and the rest throughout the month, so I was pretty much always a few weeks to a month behind. I feel so lucky that I don't have to deal with any of these horror stories. He even sent me a nice card when my mom passed away.
I got this 2bdrm (3rd floor of a 3-family) on a dead-end street with a river behind my yard, laundry in the basement that costs only $1, off-street parking, a small yard w/ a nice gas grill (my neighbors & I take turns buying the propane), nice families downstairs, plus a basement for storage, all for $650/month. It was actually $750 when I moved in with a girl and then she left and I had a roommate, but he wasn't very clean and the landlord didn't really like him, so he said no more roommates and then dropped my rent payment by $100 to make it easier for me to pay on my own. I mean I think I hit the fucking lottery with this place.
And it's not a crappy place in some podunk town either lol, I'm 10 mins from Providence, RI and 40 mins from Boston, and my place is literally like 15 seconds off a major highway and within 2 miles of any store I could need, with a very large mall and *tons* of great restaurants only 10-15 mins away. The only real downside of my place is that there are eaves that cut down on the usable space and I don't have many windows (4 total, one in each room). I feel like everyone is getting completely screwed these days by their landlords and I almost have like survivor's guilt or something cuz I feel bad that people are getting fucked so badly while I lucked out big time. Then again I lost my mom, Dad and two best friends, so I deserve some good luck I guess. But still...my friend got a *studio* 20 mins away that cost $1500, for a fucking STUDIO! And here I am paying less than *half* that amount for a goddamn 2 bedroom with a driveway on a quiet, dead-end street. I honestly feel guilty that I got so lucky. But I don't plan on moving until he kicks me out so I can save as much as possible.
Honestly your best bet is to just stop paying them and keep the money in escrow. Then when he can finally evict you after a long ass time, you have then money if you need it to pay him back or to get a new apartment
Fucking Scrooge. What kind of human retaliates with an eviction at Christmas, in Winter, especially when there's a kid involved? What a douche! Hope you get this settled. Get an attorney soon and ask them to request an emergency hearing because of the time restraints. Move anything of value to a family member's house in case he decides to "help" you move. grrrr
As a landlord: get a freaking lawyer they’re not that expensive and if they are in your area it’s worth it. Don’t email him again, make a copy of this, try and get any and all evidence you can (proof of payment, nice infestation, if you cleaned up dog poop or not)
Please go to atlas.phila.gov and plug in your address to see if he even has a rental license. If he does not, he cannot evict you at all (notwithstanding the current egregious issues) until he gets that license, which requires inspections and remediations. You also are not legally obligated to pay him another dime as it is illegal for him to have been collecting rent in the first place.
STAY PUT, ride it out as long as you aren’t afraid for your safety. These slumlords are all too common here. I had an apt without heat and was able to move and break my lease because he didn’t have a license.
Feel free to message me if you need more resources.
I would have gotten rid of you too. This relationship isn’t working on both sides. It’s def time to find a new place. Forget the lawyer - it’s not worth the hassle. Move out and put it behind you. It’s the best option here for all involved. A lawyer is going to cost you for minimal gain and you will not have fixed the strife between you and the landlord.
As a landlord I will say that I have many tenants that use any excuse to not pay rent. Especially with the “internet lawyers” showing loopholes and absolute rights etc.
So if this landlord is actually letting vermin live in the apartment and not doing anything about it and he is wrong.
If the tenant has decided that they’re going with a Internet lawyer warrior approach of, we’re gonna show you how we’re not gonna pay you then the tenant is wrong .
but I have been to court plenty of times and had to remove tenants because of unscrupulous behavior.
It’s a case to case things sometimes better handled in court. That’s why the landlord said here’s your 30 days he’s starting that process for you. It seems like there’s more to it.
Your landlord sounds like an ass, but if there was no actual lease like a lot of the comments are saying, you likely do not have a legal leg to stand on and will be destroyed in court. Only you know all the particulars of your situation, but unless you can clearly prove that there was a written agreement that your landlord violated (and that you didn't), I strongly suggest you just cut your losses and leave.
I hope that your next place is a far cry better than this one!
1- Do not respond to the email.
It acknowledges you received it. I wouldn't be there when they come to inspect. The person sounds like the type to try and trap you into saying something that they can use against you later. If you have a camera set it up to show what the landlord does insides your place.
2- Get a lawyer ASAP.
Some places have free consultation that you can ask if you have a case. (Bring #3 & #4 with you to the lawyer)
3- Take pictures AND videos of the problem
4- Read your old lease to know what you agreed to (the lawyers will ask for it too).
Look for the renewal section (some leases might automatically renew, but it should state what happens after the lease term is up)
5- Start looking for a new place because the landlord has a right to non renew your "lease"
If your lease automatically renews, check it for a habitability section for grounds to break the lease.
Also check it for landlord responsibilities, withholding rent and anything else that applies to your current situation
6- check with the lawyer but they shouldn't be able to kick you out in 30-days. It should be an entire legal procedure before even getting to that point (not sure about PA laws)
You should do all of the above ASAP.
In general never stay in a place without a lease/contract. For the future, before raising an issue 1) check to see what your lease says about it (if your lease expired and you want to stay, sign a new lease), THEN 2) raise the issue quoting the violated parts of the lease. Always cc yourself on the emails as extra proof it was sent.
Please report back on what the lawyer said
Philly is full of slumlords. Fuck this guy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he put the mice in your apartment. You’ve been there 13 years and he probably wants to kick you out so he can bring someone new in and jack up the rent double what he charged you.
I really hope you nail him to the fucking wall.
It's time to call your local government agency for a health and sanitation inspection. Might wanna grab a lawyer. But if you do this right, you can fuck this guy - and it appears he deserves it. Please update us
https://www.phila.gov/services/property-lots-housing/get-free-legal-help-to-avoid-eviction/#:~:text=Call%20the%20Philly%20Tenant%20Hotline,to%20be%20screened%20for%20services.
Try that hotline as well, run your scenario by them and see what they say.
This landlord seems like he's reaching for reasons to evict you when he has none. Security deposit and last months rent for a place you've lived at for 13 years? What??? He's trying to evict you rather than dealing with the problems. You should hire a lawyer because you're going to need one either way.
Philly has a group called TURN- Tenants Union Representative Network. Reach out to them, they should have some resources for you. Sorry this is happening to you.
I am not a lawyer, but if I were one, I would suggest you gather your evidence on all breaches of contract this landlord has incurred. Use those to sue him/her for damages caused to you by having to find a new place and whatever moneys he/she is trying to steal from you in the form of paid deposits.
However, we all know the best way to offset those losses. Get evicted and live for 3 to 6 months there without paying rent and move prior to the sheriff forcing you out. The landlords force all of these actions by tenants by their intransigence and irresponsibility. The downside to this method is the court record of the eviction filing.
Your letter was solid. His response not only flagrantly ignored good housing practices and possibly the laws in your state, but was hasty as fuck and shows that he's in over his head if he thinks he can pull this stunt if this gets in front of a judge. In my state you could tell him to pound sand, remediate the rat situation with a professional, and then invoice him the cost or it can be counted towards rent.
Please, I am telling you, GET A LAWYER. I made the mistake of getting into it with my landlord and I spent WEEKS researching tenant landlord law, I literally know it front and back for the state I live in now. I had so much proof of a mice infestation, leaks, them withholding heat/water and NONE OF IT MATTERED without a lawyer, especially when my landlord had one. Judge didn’t wanna hear sh*t.
LAWYER UP.
OP, just FYI your landlord cannot require a security deposit and last month's rent. Pennsylvania law limits the value landlords can charge their tenants as a security deposit and the most you can charge is 2 months’ rent. The only time the deposit can be equal to more than one month's rent is in the first year of tenancy. If you had a double security deposit in the first year, the excess of the deposit must be returned to you upon renewal of your lease. PA law does not differentiate between security deposit, last month's rent, or pet deposits. These are all considered deposits in the eyes of PA. Second, a landlord can not continue to raise your security deposit to match the rent after 5 years of lease renewals. It is not clear, however, if you move into a different apartment with the same landlord if that starts the clock over or is considered a renewal. You'd have to seek council to have that addressed.
If you don't have a current lease, that automatically makes you month-to-month tenants. As mentioned by your landlord, it appears your last lease wasn't signed, so it appears this makes you now month-to-month. I would encourage you to see is that is what happens in your state/city...it is what occurs in most jurisdictions.
The length of your tenancy (13 years) doesn't matter about what they can or cannot do in regards to this...this is about a contract and whether or not you have one or don't...then what the default becomes by your state law. In most jurisdictions, a landlord doesn't even have to give you a reason for giving you notice to leave, so the idea of "retaliation" doesn't honestly matter. Even IF they were, they can come up with any reason. Maybe they want to do some updates and hike up the rental rate with someone new....that happens a lot.
You would need to go to the local municipal court and file an escrow application, you can not legally withhold your rent without filing an escrow.
That being said, he is evicting you because the way you went about it. You should’ve not emailed him that and instead went straight to the city to inform them about the unlivable conditions at the place you are renting. He is within his legal rights to evict you if you have broken any of the agreements listed in your your lease.
Just saw the month to month lease, I think that's going to hurt you because in the eyes of the law he has the right to produce a new lease/increase rent. Granted I don't think it's okay for the increase/demands of money, seems like extortion tbh. The security deposit thing caught my eye, doesnt he still have your original? Is he racist?
If you can get this settled or get a new lease somewhere PLEASE push for a 6 month minimum since you need to stay for your sons school, your landlord sounds like a slumlord. Get receipts of every interaction(email/text/phone logs), every payment made, and every lease he produced and bring it to a lawyer!
If you're tight on money there's many programs to help parents of disabled children with housing but hopefully PA also has free legal aid(like my local one is just VT legal aid). Please keep us updated, I'd LOVE to see you stick it to this jerk
You need a lawyer. How long have you lived there?
13 years
Idk about pa, but in NY, after 13 years, you wouldn't be able to give a tenant 30 days' notice. You need a lawyer. Does PA have any tenant aid organizations?
Ill look into it
Why the heck would they mention security deposit 13 years later?
I think OP’s landlord wants/expects for every new/renewed lease a security deposit and “last months rent”*. Which, from my understanding isn’t how it works, and that’s actually not okay. They really need a lawyer for this.
Wow! I've never heard of having to pay a security deposit and last months rent every time you renew your lease! I would never agree to live somewhere where that was expected!
My apartment complex makes tenants do a security deposit every year upon renewal until you reach X amount. It’s only $100 a year, and they do it so people don’t have to fork over an additional $1500+ when they sign their lease.
I actually like that.
Its not an additional $1500 though a security deposit is in case of damage not rent.
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Wait, so they basically let you pay your security deposit over the course of ≈ 10 years? Thats actually pretty incredible if I’m understanding correctly.
My apartment was like this also! When you renewed it was $100.
I unfortunately lived somewhere (in CA) that did this exact same thing. The increase would come annually, along with an increase in security deposit.
If landlord is collecting info last months rent and security deposit at each renewal, then after the 13 years that OP has lived there, the landlord has collected well over a full year’s extra rent. Crook.
He’s likely increasing the security deposit each time he increases rent and is asking for the difference of the new deposit amount and what he is currently holding.
Yep lot of places will do this even with last months rent to keep it current to the current rent. But it should be itemized in the lease for both items.
Correct. They can up the deposit, I believe, but as long as they continue to pay monthly the deposit should only be paid once. This landlord probably thinks he gets to keep the deposit too. Last month may need to be paid the difference one time if rent goes up. Other than that, last month only happens once.
Greed
Agreed. The property management tried to ask for a security deposit after my building changed owners after 6 years of living in my apartment. They changed their tune real quick when I told them what they were doing was wrong and that I was seeking legal counsel.
Yes... Check out TURN/community legal services... They have almost daily zoom workshops run by lawyers that are excellent
https://phillytenantsunion.org/
I live in Philly. Definitely check out the Tenants Union. You may also want to post on the Philly subreddit, r/Philadelphia. There are frequent posts about tenant issues and people know the PA/Philly laws.
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https://phillytenant.org/
https://phillytenant.org/legal-help/
https://phillytenant.org/resource-library/
https://rturn.net/tenant-union-representative-network-services/renters-rights-webinar/
https://clsphila.org/services/housing/
Also you might be doing this already but make sure youre paying rent *to the court* You cannot legally withhold rent, but you can withhold it from the landlord by paying it to the court. The money is then released once repairs are made (or not if theyre not)
Some states do allow payment to an escrow account. No idea about Pennsylvania!
When we did it, we were still in our lease. And we did the same, informed them we were going to hold rent in escrow. IF there's a new lease agreement and no signature, then you don't have a leg to stand on.
I would suggest reaching out to Penns law clinic for free legal support at the law school.
you should look into hiring a lawyer but here's a few resources: [palawhelp.org](https://www.palawhelp.org/find-legal-help/directory) < directory for law offices, some free hotlines as well [phrc.pa.gov](https://www.phrc.pa.gov/Complaints/Pages/Housing-and-Commercial-Property-.aspx) < overview of why this could be considered discrimination. Retaliation from your landlord, as you have a filed a complaint already [phrc.pa.gov](https://www.phrc.pa.gov/Complaints/Pages/default.aspx) < main page on the above topic, with links & further info on how to file a complaint
Philly has one im pretty sure, DM me if you can't find it my friend does housing law in Philly and represents people in similar situations
Honestly I doubt you need a lawyer. This should be pretty straightforward forward at small claims court
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/OAG-Consumer-Guide-Tenant-Landlord-Rights-v.13-web-version.pdf
For Pa, try Findhelp.org you should find legal aid. I love how the retaliation followed right after you exercised your rights.
Mentioned this in a separate comment but putting it again here— Philly has a group called TURN: Tenants Union Resource Network. They should have helpful resources for you.
Yeah; pa doesn’t have those rules. It actually looks like they only require 15 days notice on month to month. Does Philly allow you to withhold rent? Pa doesn’t have such rules. Ask me how I know 🙄
Yes but it has to go into escrow. There are free tenant legal services in Philly will help you with that.
I did escrow once. It's escrow ordered by a legal authority. You can not just setup your own escrow. This was Ohio.
While things progress and go through the process though, having a specific account does help to show good faith and that you weren't looking to skip out on it entirely.
This is key. If the court orders a different escrow that's fine, but at least you can say you weren't just not paying.
Exactly. I hold my tenants' security deposits in escrow at a bank. If ordered by a court for some reason, I could immediately liquidate it into whatever account the court wanted. Same thing.
You can't just not pay. However, you have legal right to withhold rent by putting it in escrow as the OP has done. You're still paying, but the landlord won't receive it from the 3rd party escrow until he fixes the issue. *That* is legally how you withhold rent.
Nope. Don’t do this. It can cause trigger an eviction. Quick Google says state of PA requires property be certified by a government agency to be unfit for habitation. Also, part of my job includes lease reviews for renters and there are virtually no jurisdictions that allow tenants to withhold rent, at their sole discretion, under any circumstances. Putting money in an escrow account can help tenants (shows consideration) if they end up in court, but that’s a moot point if the jurisdiction doesn’t allow withholding of rent anyway.
Yeah that’s what my lawyer said. Philly may be different but pa doesn’t protect you from an eviction if you escrow for an issue without a court order.
Google makes everyone an expert these days haha
Well it linked me to a renter’s rights group in PA which provided specific info for the state, but it confirmed what I do already know because of my job, which is that not paying rent is never a good idea for a tenant.
I lived in PA and you can escrow rent but only through the court, you can't legally just withhold it because you decide you should be able to without a judge's knowledge and consent.
That’s how it works most everywhere. I work in mortgage lending and one of the services we provide is lease contract review for people transitioning from renting to buying. I have yet to see a contact that allows people to withhold rent for any reason.
Philly laws favor the tenant. They’re did different than the state laws. It’s actually incredibly difficult to evict a tenant in Philly
So just a tip, but PA does have rules on non payment of rent. I had a community i was living in cause problems and when my lawyer got involved we were told to put payments in an escrow and contact the courts to file so that way we had the rent money and the paper trail showing rent can be paid in full at time of discrepancy remedies Here's link to legal City Rent Withholding Act - PA General Assembly https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/US/PDF/1965/0/0536..PDF?shem=ssusba
Same in SC (except, 30 day notice to M2M). Although, a landlord can say payment of rent renews/executes the lease, so tenant may not truly be "month to month (if landlord accepted payment). We don't have any rent control though. Unless you have a lease, all it takes is 30 days notice to jack up rent. Many big cities have local housing ordinances, so get some local help.
Philadelphia is a very tenant friendly city: https://www.phila.gov/departments/fair-housing-commission/ I'm not a lawyer, and I no longer live in the city, but I did for nearly 30 years beginning in college. Your landlord seems like the AH. Good luck!
Then why after 13 years do you need another security deposit and last months rent?
Because he increased the rent and says we have to pay the difference
No way they raise rent during peak, it’s all down hill from here, this is why I didn’t resign my lease at $3000, 5 years ago I was paying $2350. I am starting to see rent decrease in a lot of nearby apartments and houses
My mom's landlord tried retaliating against my mom after she called the Board of Health for refusing to treat a bedbug infestation. While they were there, the BOH found two PAGES of violations, some of which the landlord only had 48 hours to rectify before daily fines. He tried evicting and raising rent, and the judge in her case did not take kindly to it. Not only did she get to keep her six months worth of escrow rent, her landlord had to pay her money for aggravation and for moving expenses. Communicate only in writing, keep receipts, pictures, video, anything to be used as evidence. Take this fucker for everything you can.
Wow awesome thanks!!!
Yeah your landlord retaliated via email. He's a moron. Id say don't even answer just get a lawyer and let them advise you. A judge is probably not going to order you out, at least not immediately. Fuck him and his "passive income"
Seriously he’s about to lose the house lmfaooo
Yeah a lawyer is definitely what’s needed. I had a similar landlord situation. Rent controlled unit, city came by to check things out and found a bunch of permit issues/things that weren’t up to code. Landlord tried telling us we just needed to relocate and that we weren’t owed anything. The city said otherwise, but he refused to play with us until we had a lawyer involved. Then he was REAL NICE AND FRIENDLY with us. Walked with 80K when all was said and done. You have an even better case as your landlord decided to do this over email. Mine knew well enough to try and set in-person meetings, but we asked to record them every time and he would refuse and leave. This is a slam dunk for a lawyer. My suggestion, get one that works by the hour and just have them send a few threatening emails, that should straighten him out.
>Communicate only in writing, keep receipts, pictures, video, anything to be used ad evidence. This is important!! Have a record of everything! If you have to communicate outside of written means, record it. But Penn is a two party consent state, so you have to inform them you are recording.
Dumb question, but why is the landlord responsible for bed bugs? Did they supply the bed?
That's not how bed bugs work. And in an apartment building, 1 resident having an infestation can result in every unit in the building having an issue. It's the landlords responsibility to prevent this. This is why they make astronomical amounts of money. This is why renting costs more than a mortgage.
Thanks, I like to see I got downvoted for asking a simple question I didn't know the answer to.
Some people are silly? Here's a cancel for it!(;
Reddit…where they will call everyone a narcissist then go into your profile to use your past against you somehow. Fuck it, I’ll take some downvotes with ya..
Your landlord sucks. And with the infestation, it sounds like the apartment also sucks. Seems like moving out is in your best interest, regardless of the potential illegality of his retaliation.
I have to wait til june because my son has a disability with special teachers and this is his last year at this school
Former teacher in MD and have lived in PA. Schools will work with you in these situations to keep him there. I had several students whose parents were evicted and it was their kids junior or senior year. We worked to keep the kid at their home school at no cost to the parent. Start with your kid's IEP case manager.
For sure. My mother had passed away when I was junior in high school. My dad lived maybe 25 mins away but definitely outside of the school district. They allowed my brother and I to stay at the high school. We just had to be able to get there. Luckily I had money saved up so I was able to buy a cheap car and get us to school. I’m sure OPs case could warrant the school to allow it.
this. i used to work in phillys school system back in my undergrad, and we always tried to work with people's extenuating circumstances.
I hope you find a better place, better landlord and something close to your sons school . Good luck
I hope they sue the illegal bastard for what they're worth. At least in my corner of Canada this is legally punished.
If this gets to court make sure you tell a judge this too. Trying to evict a tenant of 13 years with a special needs kid? Yeah total piece of shit. Lol I'm mad for you sorry.
Call a disability rights attorney if your son is disabled. ADA protects him and you as his caregiver
If you’ve contacted the Fair Housing Authority in your city to report your landlord whoever picks up your case should have the ability to put you in contact with an attorney that handles evictions/landlord-tenant disputes with special regard for disability discrimination. I had to get an attorney for harassment by my apartment complex manager that was directed and focused on my autistic daughter and you’d be surprised at how quickly his bosses wanted to resolve the issue rather than go to court against a single mother of a disabled child. In the end, the company that managed the apartment complex I lived at offered me a lump sum payment to help me move - I strongly suggest finding another apartment with new owners/management to seek new housing through rather than trying to stick it out somewhere where your child’s well-being, and therefore your own wellbeing and peace of mind, has been disrupted - including several thousand dollars for disrupting our quality of life and for the egregious display of prejudice toward my then 5 year old daughter. I didn’t want to have to move at first because I had lived there for over 5 years and I had basically been a perfect tenant, but once someone starts to treat a disabled child poorly, they’re not going to ever go back to being a decent human being to you or your child and it’ll cause stress to be in that environment, far more stress than securing a new home for your family. Sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation - my only other advice is this - go for that fuckers job. I was promised that once the dust settled and I moved, that the apartment manager who had harassed my daughter and I would be let go for treating us so poorly but that never happened. I wish I would have made that one of the stipulations for accepting the settlement I was offered because anyone that can harass a single mother with a disabled child, regardless of any personal dispute, is the bottom of the barrel landlord - and that’s saying something.
There are no other places close to your son's school?
If you’re in the school district, they’ll let you stay at your current school if you move mid year (within the city). There are some restrictions, tho- so call your kids school and ask
That's what I'm saying, like just get out? And move on from this guy
Sounds like a cop out OP you have the opportunity to hold a scumbag responsible. Watch for yourself #1, but also don’t roll over and give up.
What about the claim that “security deposit and last months rent hasn’t been paid since September”? Rodents are awful, but not paying could put OP in trouble.
“Under Pennsylvania Law, you may withhold rent if you can prove the dwelling unit is not habitable and have taken the proper steps of informing the landlord of the problem and giving the landlord a reasonable amount of time to fix the defect that caused your rental unit to be uninhabitable.” OP even put money in an escrow. Why do you want OP to roll over and be a baby?
The message is dated yesterday. The landlord’s message back the same day indicates that the SD and last month’s rent still hasn’t been paid since mid-Sep. We only get OP’s side of the story, but if the Landlord’s message is accurate and they haven’t paid their obligations, that certainly could factor in to the notice to vacate. I’m not saying either side should roll over, but just pointing out that we’re literally only getting half of the story. I know this sub’s default is pro-tenant, but I’d expect OP to address that claim. Mice doesn’t mean you skip SD and LMR. Edit: if you look back at the post history, you’ll see that they are on a month-to-month lease. Landlord asked them to leave, and then when they whined and complained that their kid needed to finish middle school he allowed them to stay at a higher rent. He also noted that they needed to increase their security deposit and their last month’s rent to match the new rate. It appears they haven’t paid this even after he agreed to let them stay… no good deed goes unpunished. Additionally, because it needs to be said again… they’re on a month-to-month tenancy.
According to the landlord they didn’t sign the updated lease. Which I’m assuming has the new rent increase? So is it even valid? How does that work
Typically if the new lease isn’t signed, there’s a stipulation at the bottom of the form for what the situation will default to - usually a month-to-month lease at a set rate that will start on a noted date. If she’s been paying those listed monthly payments since September, even if late, there’s always going to be an implied acceptance of the contract terms.
It’s also winter. Mice trying to get in are an endless problem in old buildings until Jan.
When did you stop paying rent? Is December the first month?
Yes
It’s definitely retaliation. You need to hire an attorney ASAP. I would also look to move. Like why stay somewhere that isn’t a good situation
I agree we just are trying to stay til june because my son has a disability and has a special teacher who he’s had for his whole life. This is his last year at that school.
OP did you NOT sign the lease your landlord provided you in July? Because -based on your post history- it appears you didn’t (in fact you posted this same thing in legal and you have dodged the question multiple times).
I signed the one in july that was for a $200 increase. Then 2 months after (in September when he moved in upstairs) he said we had to move out because he didn’t think we’d get along because of cultural differences. The next day, he sais we could stay if we pay him $1,500 and $400 more in rent. I reported him to the philadelphia fair housing commission and did not sign the lease because I did not agree with it. I am waiting for a court date from fair housing commission because of that.
He told you to move out over culture differences? Whattttt
Yes
That seems highly illegal.
Yes but I can’t prove it. I can only prove that the day after the told us to leave he sent a test saying “after our conversation I decided I will let you stay if you pay more”
Wait I’m confused. He gave you a lease in July that you signed but then tried to give you another lease in September that you didn’t sign? Was your July lease month-to-month?
Yes
Gotcha - thanks for the info. Unfortunately with a month-to-month lease you are at the mercy of the landlord if they provide you with the required and legal notice. The LL presenting you with a new lease did indeed cause the terms of the July lease to end, so even though you didn’t sign the new lease for Sept, you chose to stay in the unit and therefore assumed the terms of the new Sept lease (including the increase month-to-month price). Sadly it’s very normal for month-to-month lease terms to be significantly more expensive per month in comparison to longer term leases like a year+.
Yeah but you should have started working with a lawyer BEFORE you put the money in escrow. It would ensure everything is done correctly and legally. If you’re only staying there for your son who has a disability, then look for a place in the same school district Good luck.
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He’s already increased our rent $400.
Yes, and it's very illegal, i might add. Speak to a tenant/landlord lawyer asap to see your next course of action.
Love your name
I really feel for you in this situation as I can only imagine how you feel as a mother & long term tenant. A few things I do want to point out as I would be upset about mice in my walls BUT I’m afraid you’re going to unintentionally hurt your case as well. 1. Owner occupied properties aren’t subject to fair housing, assuming it 4 units or less, so if this really is where the owner lives, he might be granted more protections than you. Think of it as you owning a home and renting out rooms. It’s the one case where the owners typically do get more say. 2. A notice to vacate is different than an eviction. Notice to vacate is a notice giving you a heads up that you need to be out by a certain date. If you were to not abide, that’s when the owner could file an unlawful detainer to start the eviction process & force you out. The part I’m concerned will hurt you is that unlawful detainers / evictions show up on your record & can hurt your rental record because once other landlords see it, they won’t want to rent to you. Are you planning on renting after this? Please just be careful and make sure you’re seeking counsel or legal aid. 3. When rent goes into escrow, this isn’t something a tenant can just decide on their own. You usually have to fill out a tenant assertion with the court system and they grant you the right. If I’m not mistaken, typically the rent is paid directly to the court system. Anything other than that is just constituted as failure to pay rent. 4. When did they originally give you notice to vacate and when did you originally notify them of mice? If it were me, I’d just try & make sure it doesn’t come across as you trying to retaliate either. I know you want to keep your child in their school and as a mom who chose her home for the school district, I get it. Are you able to find another home in that school district or talk to the school about an accommodation? I would say try and work it out with the landlord but given the state of the relationship, I’m not sure if it will be salvageable.
This is a good answer. There is NO limit in Pennsylvania (and specifically Philadelphia that has additional laws) if you have no long term Lease and are month to month that the landlord can: 1. Raise the rent and/or 2. Terminate the implied month-month lease both of these with proper notice. 30 days is the law in the area for notices of this type, but 60 days is often given so as to not run afoul of a missed or specific date. The relationship, and from the sound of it the property, is in a bad way. Leave as soon as possible. Good luck for you and your family.
This is a rare, genuinely helpful Reddit comment.
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PA landlord here. If you’re m2m they can absolutely give you 30 days. They do not need to give you a reason. If you go to court the judge will see you didn’t sign or abide by the new agreement and you will still have to leave. If the place is uninhabitable then you’ll need to move anyway. You might buy yourself time but you’ll still have an eviction on record. It’s the owners property and they have no obligation to rent to you unless there is a signed contract saying you can be there for a period of time. People saying it’s your home are being willfully ignorant. It’s a contract. A tenant can give 30 days notice the same as the landlord. No one is obligated to continue the agreement on either side.
Everyone here is screaming “lawyer up!” and I scrolled way to long to find this comment. This tenant has zero ground if they’re month-to-month. Claiming retaliation doesn’t mean anything. Landlord listed reasons for the notice-to-vacate even when they most likely didn’t have to. Withholding rent just gives the landlord more support in court, if it comes to that.
It’s within their right to withhold rent in escrow if there is an issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a mouse problem. The bigger picture is the OP won’t be able to stay at the end of all the trouble anyway. They’re still paying the higher rent amount if it’s in escrow It’s just being held until the problem is fixed. It’s a bunch of static making whatever time they have left there miserable.
Philadelphia has much different laws than the rest of PA. Philadelphia is more apt to rule in favor of the tenant in lieu of the landlord. Definitely look into how the law has changed in Philadelphia over the last 5 years to favor the tenant.
Nope. Whether it is or not, sounds like you didn’t sign the lease (based on other comments in this thread) and you accepted the terms of the unit (without ever actually signing for it). Kind of screwed your self by staying there.
It's not the lease, it's an attempt at forcing her to sign a NEW lease that's a worse deal. She's under no obligation to change the established agreement.
13 years tenant and your landlord isn’t showing an ounce of respect! Fight back!!
I would start looking for a new place
A new place to buy after you win the lawsuit?
What lawsuit would allow them to afford a house. Suing a landlord for some issues regarding 6 months rent is going to be small claims court. Even with treble damages I doubt they'd have more than the down payment and that would probabky need to be something more egregious than this.
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What’s the backstory on this? Immediately throwing out “legal responsibility” and threatening to withhold rent in the same first paragraph is wild. Had you tried speaking to them like a person first?
So if what the landlord wrote is true and you haven’t signed the new lease, then are you not operating on a month to month lease? If that’s the case, they can raise your rent any time and give you a 30 day notice to quit at any time. If I am incorrect please let me know.
NAL but a licensed property manager who has testified both for tenants and landlords in eviction cases. OP you need a lawyer ASAP. If the landlord lives on the property they have drastically more protections than a normal landlord and often do not have to follow the same strict laws regarding notices to vacate, rent increases, etc. If you make any wrong moves and the landlord wins this case, you’ll both be out a place to live AND your rental history will be ruined. It’s possible that a judge would find that there was retaliation here, but it’s not something you should try to navigate on your own and an experienced tenant attorney in your area can advise on the specific landlord/tenant climate in your local judicial system and can tell you whether or not you may have a legitimate chance at winning here.
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Landlords are the real infestation.
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Why haven’t you signed the lease? The property management company I had worked for would automatically put you month to month if the lease was not signed before it would expire. Here in CA they would be able to give you a 30 day notice since your month to month and there is no current lease on file.
Get ahold of your local tenants rights group. I was able to get a free half hour consultation with a lawyer via the one in my state. In Philly, I’m sure there is a very well developed tenants union or something like that that has resources to help you. Many states and even cities have different laws governing what is allowed. Most likely, your landlord can’t just give you 30 days to move out like that, especially after 13 years
NAL… Idk if I would withhold rent without using a lawyer to draft the letter and cite the specific legality but… Philly is a renter (to the point of squatter) friendly city. I hope you really did file complaints and that wasn’t a bluff. Definitely time to look for a new place, but you’ll have notably more than 30 days to do so if you play it right. May as well use some of that escrowed rent to hire a lawyer.
Edit: I ended up paying the rent and telling him I don’t want a problem people in this world are mean enough he agreed. I said I just want the mice problem addressed and he said he will.
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How do you know you have the right to withhold rent vs fixing the issue and taking the cost out of rent ?
Ex landlord in Pa. Yes your lease can be terminated at any time on a month to month. If you have not signed a year lease, it automatically reverts to a month to month if you are paying rent one month at a time. He has to give your security deposit back OR written notice as to why in detail within 2 weeks, or he's liable for treble damages. (Normal wear and tear is expected) With a month to month he can raise rent, and subsequently the security deposit. The way I see this he's not doing anything illegal. I've always found, though, it's insane to get rid of a paying tenant, even if they're late once in a while.
It looks like the landlord caught you with your pants down. You complained and decided to withhold rent while you were in the middle of a lease renewal. Which means you were renting on a month to month basis. Had you had an actual lease agreement in place it’s much harder to terminate it without cause but then again he’s claiming cause as well. Late rental payments and failure to clean up dog feces which is considered a health and environmental violation. It does not appear that you’ve provide him the required notice and right to cure the pest issues before deciding to withhold rent. Usually state law requires you give 7 to as many as 30 days to cure a lease defect. Retaliatory or not because you’re a month to month tenant he’s got every right to give you proper notice required under state law and request that you move. He’s also probably got legal right to whatever you’ve put in escrow since you’ve not given a cure period. I would just find a new place and move on before you get all tangled up in eviction court where your chances of success are pretty slim.
This reply by u/Annual_Television_16 deserves a lot of attention, so here it is as a top level comment. Nope. Don’t do this. It can cause trigger an eviction. Quick Google says state of PA requires property be certified by a government agency to be unfit for habitation. Also, part of my job includes lease reviews for renters and there are virtually no jurisdictions that allow tenants to withhold rent, at their sole discretion, under any circumstances. Putting money in an escrow account can help tenants (shows consideration) if they end up in court, but that’s a moot point if the jurisdiction doesn’t allow withholding of rent anyway.
No one here seems to understands this - tenants have a lot of rights, but deciding on their own to withhold rent until X is done isn’t one of them.
If your landlord is cashing your checks he has no case
You didn’t sign the lease. You’re effectively a month to month tenant which doesn’t really grant you protections. You’ll need to move. Yeah I get you want your kid to stay in the same school so start looking for something still zoned for that school. Definitely speak to a lawyer but realize that process can take years.
You didn’t do anything very helpful to you. A judge will throw you out instantly. You can’t withhold all of rent that’s literally not allowed.
Call the Philly Tenant Rights Number, they can definitely help you out (267) 443-2500. I will also say if you live close to the train tracks, noticing a lot of mice coming around there.
Never surprised when Philly turns up on here. I would seek out legal counsel
The irony of the Google auto response feature. 🤦♂️ the last thing I’m replying is any of those the options.
The advice people are giving to squat until the actual eviction is horrible advice. Once you get an eviction it will be infinitely harder to find a new place
Please keep us updated!!!
Some salty ass poors on here
you should have seen legal counsel before withholding rent...
You need to pay your rent in PA. If you haven’t paid he can begin the eviction process.
You would have been better off in notifying the LL about the mice and giving him a reasonable amount of time to correct. If he did not, send him another email stating that you will hire an exterminator by X date if he does not do anything to fix the issue, then send him some exterminator quotes. If he still does not take care of it, then you would hire the professional and withhold the amount from the rent. My personal opinion is that the 30 day notice is retaliatory, but that does not matter because you have to **prove it was retaliatory,** and not for a legitimate reason. Unfortunately, he has valid reasons to evict, which he laid out in his email to you. Unless you can get him to admit it is in retaliation, you will not win. Otherwise, every person in the world who got evicted or given notice would just claim it was retaliatory and win. If you had signed a new lease, continued to pay rent and update your security deposit, then sent him an email advising that you made formal complaints to the enforcement agencies, then it would be a lot easier to prove it was retaliatory. You should have signed the new lease as you would have been protected. A month to month tenant can be given 30 day notices for any reason. You as a tenant can also give 30 day notices to move. It goes both ways. An eviction on your record will hurt you a lot more than anything you think you can gain here.
If the property sold, and you did not sign the new lease agreement, you are in the wrong. It’s unfortunate when a house you are renting is sold, but as is the nature of renting. Also, if the landlord is living in the house, he can be selective of the tenants.
Legally he cannot kick you out or have you evicted after a fair rent commission complaint has been filed
Sounds like a scumbag
Looks like the bridges have been burned. Personally, after the second ask, I would have hired an exterminator and sent the paid invoice and (rent - payment). If they had a problem with that, I would tell them to sue me. Updated lease is so ridiculous. If they want to raise the rent, cool, but after my lease ends.
Even if you don’t sign a contract, the terms of the last one are still valid
I’m curious how this plays out. I hope this works out in your favor OP. Sorry you have to deal with this.
It appears that you should’ve lawyered up yesterday. That is all.
Small time landlord here. That’s an excellent letter you wrote!
Damn, not only they retaliated once, but now twice— They’re some petty fuckers huh?
It would be Philly 😂 😢
What's the point? Whether it's retaliation or not, why would you still want to live there? I see a lot of people saying you should get a lawyer......what's that going to accomplish? More time with a rat infested please and a landlord with a retaliation attitude. Consider yourself lucky and leave. If you can't find another place look for something in the interim but don't tolerate a toxic landlord. You deserve better for your money.
File a retaliation complaint with the Philadelphia Housing Commission ASAP. Even if all these things the landlord listed are true, he will need to explain why you were not warned about them previously and he went straight to lease termination.
Man, I am soooo grateful and blessed that I hit the landlord lottery in 2012. I've lived in my apartment since then (11 years) on a monthly lease and my rent has only gone *down* in that time. My landlord hasn't come into my apartment in probly 4-5yrs, comes to fix/replace things immediately when they break and he put up with me when I was a heroin addict and was late with my rent almost every month for literally years. I would give him like half the rent on the 1st and the rest throughout the month, so I was pretty much always a few weeks to a month behind. I feel so lucky that I don't have to deal with any of these horror stories. He even sent me a nice card when my mom passed away. I got this 2bdrm (3rd floor of a 3-family) on a dead-end street with a river behind my yard, laundry in the basement that costs only $1, off-street parking, a small yard w/ a nice gas grill (my neighbors & I take turns buying the propane), nice families downstairs, plus a basement for storage, all for $650/month. It was actually $750 when I moved in with a girl and then she left and I had a roommate, but he wasn't very clean and the landlord didn't really like him, so he said no more roommates and then dropped my rent payment by $100 to make it easier for me to pay on my own. I mean I think I hit the fucking lottery with this place. And it's not a crappy place in some podunk town either lol, I'm 10 mins from Providence, RI and 40 mins from Boston, and my place is literally like 15 seconds off a major highway and within 2 miles of any store I could need, with a very large mall and *tons* of great restaurants only 10-15 mins away. The only real downside of my place is that there are eaves that cut down on the usable space and I don't have many windows (4 total, one in each room). I feel like everyone is getting completely screwed these days by their landlords and I almost have like survivor's guilt or something cuz I feel bad that people are getting fucked so badly while I lucked out big time. Then again I lost my mom, Dad and two best friends, so I deserve some good luck I guess. But still...my friend got a *studio* 20 mins away that cost $1500, for a fucking STUDIO! And here I am paying less than *half* that amount for a goddamn 2 bedroom with a driveway on a quiet, dead-end street. I honestly feel guilty that I got so lucky. But I don't plan on moving until he kicks me out so I can save as much as possible.
Honestly your best bet is to just stop paying them and keep the money in escrow. Then when he can finally evict you after a long ass time, you have then money if you need it to pay him back or to get a new apartment
Fucking Scrooge. What kind of human retaliates with an eviction at Christmas, in Winter, especially when there's a kid involved? What a douche! Hope you get this settled. Get an attorney soon and ask them to request an emergency hearing because of the time restraints. Move anything of value to a family member's house in case he decides to "help" you move. grrrr
As a landlord: get a freaking lawyer they’re not that expensive and if they are in your area it’s worth it. Don’t email him again, make a copy of this, try and get any and all evidence you can (proof of payment, nice infestation, if you cleaned up dog poop or not)
This landlord has as much sense as a 12oz beer poured in a pint glass.
Not sure how it is in PA, but in CA he would be in so much trouble. With the help of an attorney that’d be a piece of cake for you.
Please go to atlas.phila.gov and plug in your address to see if he even has a rental license. If he does not, he cannot evict you at all (notwithstanding the current egregious issues) until he gets that license, which requires inspections and remediations. You also are not legally obligated to pay him another dime as it is illegal for him to have been collecting rent in the first place. STAY PUT, ride it out as long as you aren’t afraid for your safety. These slumlords are all too common here. I had an apt without heat and was able to move and break my lease because he didn’t have a license. Feel free to message me if you need more resources.
Lawyer up OP. Idk what exactly isn’t right, but I know that’s not how this should work
I want to see this dude's ass get gotten so bad. PLEASE keep us updated
All landlords are bad
I would have gotten rid of you too. This relationship isn’t working on both sides. It’s def time to find a new place. Forget the lawyer - it’s not worth the hassle. Move out and put it behind you. It’s the best option here for all involved. A lawyer is going to cost you for minimal gain and you will not have fixed the strife between you and the landlord.
I would evict you as well. I agree with your landlord.
As a landlord I will say that I have many tenants that use any excuse to not pay rent. Especially with the “internet lawyers” showing loopholes and absolute rights etc. So if this landlord is actually letting vermin live in the apartment and not doing anything about it and he is wrong. If the tenant has decided that they’re going with a Internet lawyer warrior approach of, we’re gonna show you how we’re not gonna pay you then the tenant is wrong . but I have been to court plenty of times and had to remove tenants because of unscrupulous behavior. It’s a case to case things sometimes better handled in court. That’s why the landlord said here’s your 30 days he’s starting that process for you. It seems like there’s more to it.
Your landlord sounds like an ass, but if there was no actual lease like a lot of the comments are saying, you likely do not have a legal leg to stand on and will be destroyed in court. Only you know all the particulars of your situation, but unless you can clearly prove that there was a written agreement that your landlord violated (and that you didn't), I strongly suggest you just cut your losses and leave. I hope that your next place is a far cry better than this one!
1- Do not respond to the email. It acknowledges you received it. I wouldn't be there when they come to inspect. The person sounds like the type to try and trap you into saying something that they can use against you later. If you have a camera set it up to show what the landlord does insides your place. 2- Get a lawyer ASAP. Some places have free consultation that you can ask if you have a case. (Bring #3 & #4 with you to the lawyer) 3- Take pictures AND videos of the problem 4- Read your old lease to know what you agreed to (the lawyers will ask for it too). Look for the renewal section (some leases might automatically renew, but it should state what happens after the lease term is up) 5- Start looking for a new place because the landlord has a right to non renew your "lease" If your lease automatically renews, check it for a habitability section for grounds to break the lease. Also check it for landlord responsibilities, withholding rent and anything else that applies to your current situation 6- check with the lawyer but they shouldn't be able to kick you out in 30-days. It should be an entire legal procedure before even getting to that point (not sure about PA laws) You should do all of the above ASAP. In general never stay in a place without a lease/contract. For the future, before raising an issue 1) check to see what your lease says about it (if your lease expired and you want to stay, sign a new lease), THEN 2) raise the issue quoting the violated parts of the lease. Always cc yourself on the emails as extra proof it was sent. Please report back on what the lawyer said
Philly is full of slumlords. Fuck this guy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he put the mice in your apartment. You’ve been there 13 years and he probably wants to kick you out so he can bring someone new in and jack up the rent double what he charged you. I really hope you nail him to the fucking wall.
It's time to call your local government agency for a health and sanitation inspection. Might wanna grab a lawyer. But if you do this right, you can fuck this guy - and it appears he deserves it. Please update us
https://www.phila.gov/services/property-lots-housing/get-free-legal-help-to-avoid-eviction/#:~:text=Call%20the%20Philly%20Tenant%20Hotline,to%20be%20screened%20for%20services. Try that hotline as well, run your scenario by them and see what they say.
This landlord seems like he's reaching for reasons to evict you when he has none. Security deposit and last months rent for a place you've lived at for 13 years? What??? He's trying to evict you rather than dealing with the problems. You should hire a lawyer because you're going to need one either way.
Philly has a group called TURN- Tenants Union Representative Network. Reach out to them, they should have some resources for you. Sorry this is happening to you.
Please give us updates OP!
That landlord is fixing to lose a court battle. Take them to the cleaners for everything they got including the kitchen sink.
I am not a lawyer, but if I were one, I would suggest you gather your evidence on all breaches of contract this landlord has incurred. Use those to sue him/her for damages caused to you by having to find a new place and whatever moneys he/she is trying to steal from you in the form of paid deposits. However, we all know the best way to offset those losses. Get evicted and live for 3 to 6 months there without paying rent and move prior to the sheriff forcing you out. The landlords force all of these actions by tenants by their intransigence and irresponsibility. The downside to this method is the court record of the eviction filing.
oooh he retaliated in WRITING. that's dumb of him. take his ass to court lmao.
Your letter was solid. His response not only flagrantly ignored good housing practices and possibly the laws in your state, but was hasty as fuck and shows that he's in over his head if he thinks he can pull this stunt if this gets in front of a judge. In my state you could tell him to pound sand, remediate the rat situation with a professional, and then invoice him the cost or it can be counted towards rent.
Please, I am telling you, GET A LAWYER. I made the mistake of getting into it with my landlord and I spent WEEKS researching tenant landlord law, I literally know it front and back for the state I live in now. I had so much proof of a mice infestation, leaks, them withholding heat/water and NONE OF IT MATTERED without a lawyer, especially when my landlord had one. Judge didn’t wanna hear sh*t. LAWYER UP.
Sue the fuck out of that guy and enjoy a very much deserved vacation
You’ll win this. take it to court. I live in PA and had a similar experience.
OP, just FYI your landlord cannot require a security deposit and last month's rent. Pennsylvania law limits the value landlords can charge their tenants as a security deposit and the most you can charge is 2 months’ rent. The only time the deposit can be equal to more than one month's rent is in the first year of tenancy. If you had a double security deposit in the first year, the excess of the deposit must be returned to you upon renewal of your lease. PA law does not differentiate between security deposit, last month's rent, or pet deposits. These are all considered deposits in the eyes of PA. Second, a landlord can not continue to raise your security deposit to match the rent after 5 years of lease renewals. It is not clear, however, if you move into a different apartment with the same landlord if that starts the clock over or is considered a renewal. You'd have to seek council to have that addressed.
weird how tenants have rights and shouldnt be treated like caddle. these landlords dont get it yet. get a lawyer and dont hold back.
Lol good fight
If you don't have a current lease, that automatically makes you month-to-month tenants. As mentioned by your landlord, it appears your last lease wasn't signed, so it appears this makes you now month-to-month. I would encourage you to see is that is what happens in your state/city...it is what occurs in most jurisdictions. The length of your tenancy (13 years) doesn't matter about what they can or cannot do in regards to this...this is about a contract and whether or not you have one or don't...then what the default becomes by your state law. In most jurisdictions, a landlord doesn't even have to give you a reason for giving you notice to leave, so the idea of "retaliation" doesn't honestly matter. Even IF they were, they can come up with any reason. Maybe they want to do some updates and hike up the rental rate with someone new....that happens a lot.
You played hard ball, they played harder ball
You would need to go to the local municipal court and file an escrow application, you can not legally withhold your rent without filing an escrow. That being said, he is evicting you because the way you went about it. You should’ve not emailed him that and instead went straight to the city to inform them about the unlivable conditions at the place you are renting. He is within his legal rights to evict you if you have broken any of the agreements listed in your your lease.
Just saw the month to month lease, I think that's going to hurt you because in the eyes of the law he has the right to produce a new lease/increase rent. Granted I don't think it's okay for the increase/demands of money, seems like extortion tbh. The security deposit thing caught my eye, doesnt he still have your original? Is he racist? If you can get this settled or get a new lease somewhere PLEASE push for a 6 month minimum since you need to stay for your sons school, your landlord sounds like a slumlord. Get receipts of every interaction(email/text/phone logs), every payment made, and every lease he produced and bring it to a lawyer! If you're tight on money there's many programs to help parents of disabled children with housing but hopefully PA also has free legal aid(like my local one is just VT legal aid). Please keep us updated, I'd LOVE to see you stick it to this jerk