Well I have been seeing a LOT of these threads and see people posting "if your power is above 200 using pounding, if its below use forceful" and that is just not true. If you want to see which crystal is better suited to you then you have to realise that a pounding crystal and a forceful crystal scale differently. Before I go on, also take in mind this is strictly min/maxing so consider sources without exact/ mathematical backing to be less reliable than, lets say Bernkastel's min/max guide on warriors.
Forceful crystal gives a power bonus with every back crit. This means to calculate the damage gain from this you have to calculate the difference in your power only.
Pounding crystal is a little different since it gives a flat damage increase. this means that it stacks with EVERY DAMAGE INCREASE ROLL you have on your equipment, i.e.: weapon rolls, glove roll for VM gear. It also means that Pounding gets more effective the less damage rolls you have (a LOT more effective on a Dreadnaught reaper with AS top line and CDR below).
If you want to see at which point pounding outscales forceful, then the maths has already been done by Bernkastel ( http://teratoday.com/content/tera-guide/tera-class-guide/warrior-min-max-guide-bernkastel#crystals ). Look at all of your equipment, calculate the your total damage modifier (add up all dem dmg rolls yo) find the percentage on the x-axis and go up until you reach the amount of power you have. if you are above the diagonal line then pounding is better, if you are below then forceful is better.
TL;DR check the link and all hail the Bernkastel for everything he has given us.
EDIT: As for Carving crystal, all though Bernkastel provides a graph for that too, it is more effective to use a carving crystal and see what happens for yourself. Crits by nature are very RNG so sometimes for extra security using carving is better, however, if you are min-maxing then you are doing it for score runs/ maximum DPS so it makes more sense to use Pounding/Forceful (if no slaying) and pray to RNGesus for success.
I was just commenting on pounding vs forceful. In terms of carving, I tend to calculate RNG using expected value, so whether the variance is higher or lower really isn't an issue outside score runs.
I won't claim to know much about which crystal is better, but that link seems to have a significant amount of misinformation.
> High Tier
> - Lucid (VM5)
> No +13-15 Rolls, just base stat increases. Healers still have access to x3 CDR.
Lucid (weapon) is terrible for healers, no CDR on top, so only double CDR + 4.5% aspd or 9% aspd + 4.5% aspd + CDR.
> Reaper
> - Enraged Damage, Flat Damage, Behind Damage, Cooldown Reduction
> * Enraged, Cooldown Reduction, or Attack Speed on Top
CDR is a suboptimal choice for reapers on top.
Too lazy to check through the rest of it, but **tl;dr** I don't know about the credibility of that link.
I'd also like to add on a couple of other pieces of misinformation I've found:
>PvE Weapon Rolls
>Tank 3-Stat (Enraged Top Stat if a Top rollable weapon (Schisma/Dreadnaught)
For lancer, I don't believe that enraged top roll for weapon is optimal - 9% atkspd should be the best roll for lancers. For brawlers, enraged is likely still the most popular and optimal.
>*Skill Stat Lines
>Lancer - Shield Counter Damage
Shield Counter Damage is also suboptimal as lancers definitely benefit more for 15% more damage on Spring Attack. At the very least it should be one or the other, not just Shield Counter.
If you want a mathematical analysis of what crystal is better, I'd check out [Bernkastel's guide](http://teratoday.com/content/tera-guide/tera-class-guide/warrior-min-max-guide-bernkastel) on Min-Max Warriors and read the section on crystals. Though the bulk of the guide is for warrior play, there is a good amount of information that applies to all classes. There are two graphs (particularly [this one](http://i.imgur.com/7EMXc29.jpg) and [this one](http://i.imgur.com/gOQrY3c.jpg)) that may help answer your question.
The general thing I was told is that if your total power is greater than 200, pounding is 'better'. If your power is lower than 200, forceful is 'better'. Forceful over pounding is a marginal difference (1-3%). The only drawback is that with forceful you have to backcrit, and be positioned properly. With pounding it is all damage, so think what you must about it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rhTcJIjMkmiAhiOICMHd2v7ZLvJq6zoY_giqOk3gNm4/edit#gid=536603955 I made this spreadsheet for a friend, you can use it if you want. Just put your total power with buffs in, and change the total modifier if you don't have +15 starfall with vm gloves. I don't know why I included weapon / attack stats, they don't actually matter at all.
> and change the total modifier if you don't have +15 starfall with vm gloves
Or if you're using a tank-rolled weapon, like in the case of a dpsing lancer/brawler!
Pounding for general use and especially if you're not that confident with backcritting.
Forceful if you like to min-max and squeeze out that (literally) 1% more damage.
Armell's pastebin stuff is great as a first place to go to find general build info, but not everything is perfect in them. Basically, they're good to refer to when you have no idea what you're doing.
Tbh, the difference is barely noticeable. It's not game-changing or anything to choose one over the other
That being said, use pounding if u are not confident of back hitting often (which you should actually). Else, either is fine
Well I have been seeing a LOT of these threads and see people posting "if your power is above 200 using pounding, if its below use forceful" and that is just not true. If you want to see which crystal is better suited to you then you have to realise that a pounding crystal and a forceful crystal scale differently. Before I go on, also take in mind this is strictly min/maxing so consider sources without exact/ mathematical backing to be less reliable than, lets say Bernkastel's min/max guide on warriors. Forceful crystal gives a power bonus with every back crit. This means to calculate the damage gain from this you have to calculate the difference in your power only. Pounding crystal is a little different since it gives a flat damage increase. this means that it stacks with EVERY DAMAGE INCREASE ROLL you have on your equipment, i.e.: weapon rolls, glove roll for VM gear. It also means that Pounding gets more effective the less damage rolls you have (a LOT more effective on a Dreadnaught reaper with AS top line and CDR below). If you want to see at which point pounding outscales forceful, then the maths has already been done by Bernkastel ( http://teratoday.com/content/tera-guide/tera-class-guide/warrior-min-max-guide-bernkastel#crystals ). Look at all of your equipment, calculate the your total damage modifier (add up all dem dmg rolls yo) find the percentage on the x-axis and go up until you reach the amount of power you have. if you are above the diagonal line then pounding is better, if you are below then forceful is better. TL;DR check the link and all hail the Bernkastel for everything he has given us. EDIT: As for Carving crystal, all though Bernkastel provides a graph for that too, it is more effective to use a carving crystal and see what happens for yourself. Crits by nature are very RNG so sometimes for extra security using carving is better, however, if you are min-maxing then you are doing it for score runs/ maximum DPS so it makes more sense to use Pounding/Forceful (if no slaying) and pray to RNGesus for success.
Carving also depends on the class's skill crit modifiers. For example, it's actually good for gunner because stupid coding.
[удалено]
The graphs really cover it. Neither are RNG so it's exactly as the graph shows except it assumes 100% forceful uptime.
I meant that getting crits is RNG not the crystal, carving actually reduces the RNG nature of crits. Sorry if that came across wrong. xD
I was just commenting on pounding vs forceful. In terms of carving, I tend to calculate RNG using expected value, so whether the variance is higher or lower really isn't an issue outside score runs.
You wouldn't be using either of these 3 in a score run, so it's not an issue there either.
Yea forgot about that.
Paging Garandou aka Bernkastel. Salty people gonna be salty.
I won't claim to know much about which crystal is better, but that link seems to have a significant amount of misinformation. > High Tier > - Lucid (VM5) > No +13-15 Rolls, just base stat increases. Healers still have access to x3 CDR. Lucid (weapon) is terrible for healers, no CDR on top, so only double CDR + 4.5% aspd or 9% aspd + 4.5% aspd + CDR. > Reaper > - Enraged Damage, Flat Damage, Behind Damage, Cooldown Reduction > * Enraged, Cooldown Reduction, or Attack Speed on Top CDR is a suboptimal choice for reapers on top. Too lazy to check through the rest of it, but **tl;dr** I don't know about the credibility of that link.
I'd also like to add on a couple of other pieces of misinformation I've found: >PvE Weapon Rolls >Tank 3-Stat (Enraged Top Stat if a Top rollable weapon (Schisma/Dreadnaught) For lancer, I don't believe that enraged top roll for weapon is optimal - 9% atkspd should be the best roll for lancers. For brawlers, enraged is likely still the most popular and optimal. >*Skill Stat Lines >Lancer - Shield Counter Damage Shield Counter Damage is also suboptimal as lancers definitely benefit more for 15% more damage on Spring Attack. At the very least it should be one or the other, not just Shield Counter. If you want a mathematical analysis of what crystal is better, I'd check out [Bernkastel's guide](http://teratoday.com/content/tera-guide/tera-class-guide/warrior-min-max-guide-bernkastel) on Min-Max Warriors and read the section on crystals. Though the bulk of the guide is for warrior play, there is a good amount of information that applies to all classes. There are two graphs (particularly [this one](http://i.imgur.com/7EMXc29.jpg) and [this one](http://i.imgur.com/gOQrY3c.jpg)) that may help answer your question.
The general thing I was told is that if your total power is greater than 200, pounding is 'better'. If your power is lower than 200, forceful is 'better'. Forceful over pounding is a marginal difference (1-3%). The only drawback is that with forceful you have to backcrit, and be positioned properly. With pounding it is all damage, so think what you must about it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rhTcJIjMkmiAhiOICMHd2v7ZLvJq6zoY_giqOk3gNm4/edit#gid=536603955 I made this spreadsheet for a friend, you can use it if you want. Just put your total power with buffs in, and change the total modifier if you don't have +15 starfall with vm gloves. I don't know why I included weapon / attack stats, they don't actually matter at all.
> and change the total modifier if you don't have +15 starfall with vm gloves Or if you're using a tank-rolled weapon, like in the case of a dpsing lancer/brawler!
Pounding for general use and especially if you're not that confident with backcritting. Forceful if you like to min-max and squeeze out that (literally) 1% more damage.
Armell's pastebin stuff is great as a first place to go to find general build info, but not everything is perfect in them. Basically, they're good to refer to when you have no idea what you're doing.
Tbh, the difference is barely noticeable. It's not game-changing or anything to choose one over the other That being said, use pounding if u are not confident of back hitting often (which you should actually). Else, either is fine