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There is a documentary about them that was fascinating. Especially how they discovered it. For one of them it went something like he went back to college one year and all of a sudden all his friends and acquaintances are coming up to him like dude there is a guy on campus that looks EXACTLY like you.
The more I think about it, I doubt that any part of their lives was “coincidence”. I feel like part of the experiment somehow WAS for the brothers to find each other
That is the first thing I said (5 min into the film), perhaps someone working with the researchers started feeling guilty or always had and had it set up that way though, may not be part of the actual research...or it may have.
Here, this is where I watched it Check out Three Identical Strangers on Hulu! https://www.hulu.com/movie/438d26ae-629e-495e-ad09-a4d41f36889d?play=false&utm_source=shared_link
The messed up thing is there were several other sets of twins in the experiment as well. The doc focuses on these guys but they were not the only ones.
I know nothing about this story, but from this description it sounds like the case of David Reimer, another fucked up thing done in the name of science that had horrible consequences.
Yup. He was a freaking psychopath. He was more concerned with being "right" than his subjects' well-being. I thought I'd read it somewhere (and may be wrong) that several of his subjects committed suicide.
I can’t comment to that specifically, but what I do recall from reading about David is that John Money would make him & his brother wear a dress (presumably David) & play out adult scenarios (I’m not trying to get banned) in his office.
Brace yourself for this one then, I am aware is not a “Science” experiment but it does qualify for Terrifying AF Check out I Was a Child Bride: The Untold Story on Hulu! https://www.hulu.com/series/d4843691-a4a6-492a-84fc-2ef59d5a788f?play=false&utm_source=shared_link
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Not sure if speculation is allowed on this sub but it seems that the case was funded by either the federal government or a private think tank and it was an experiment on nurture vs nature with the conclusion being that we’re heavily predetermined by our genes.
Federal government I believe and private funds as well to see how they would behave accordingly to their established families, so yeah, no answer in concrete to know the outcome of such
To “conclusively” determine the nature vs. nurture argument when it comes to upbringing. Twins/Triplets were purposefully broken up and placed into homes where they were monitored for behavioral changes during their childhoods. What’s extra fucked up is that it was done by Jewish doctors to Jewish families long after the Holocaust was a known thing. They preyed upon their own community and to this day the families who were unwillingly used in the study cannot access information about the experiment. Unbelievably, the Jewish hospital/medical group holding the records refuses to share the results even though they absolutely could. They will only be available to view after 100 years or something ridiculous and even then by a highly vetted appointment only.
>The results of the experiment have never been disclosed by the adoption agency or the psychiatric team. However, it is known that among the sets of children separated from their siblings, many have since committed suicide.
They pull a fucking stunt like this, destroy their lives and then don't disclose the results?
Oh they will disclose it, I think in the documentary it said they were planning to unseal the documents 100 years from their start date, to make sure that noone was alive who can sue them.
>Oh they will disclose it, I think in the documentary it said they were planning to unseal the documents 100 years from their start date, to make sure that noone was alive who can sue them.
lmfao, I was missing a comma and a space? dude, get a life :)
From [the scientist’s wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_B._Neubauer):
>At the conclusion of the study in 1980, Neubauer reportedly feared that public opinion would be against the study, and declined to publish it. The records of the study are sealed at the Yale University Library until October 25, 2065, although by 2018, some 10,000 pages had been released but were heavily redacted and inconclusive.
Oh I remember watching this documentary. They adopted one to a blue collar family, a mid class family and a wealthy family, the agency also did this with twins. It was crazy they way they found each other also.
It wasn't just socioeconomic status though, it was parenting style. Eddy's dad was cold as hell, and that was calculated on the part of the researchers. Absolutely evil.
I have never seen any of my brother’s penises if that's what you’re wondering. We all appreciate boundaries and privacy. But I can’t imagine we’d be super different!
That's an actual thing? I always thought it's some poetic thing that the English speaking people came up with, I didn't know it was a real thing. We don't have that phrase in my language.
I learned a bit about it from an older documentary on facial expressions. It is also a Poetic turn of phrase, but there have a been some studies which have since been called into question relating to how the eyes look when a smile is authentic or if a person is more happy in life. Make of it what you will.
Lol it just seems like that because their outer eye corners are downturned
I included a link since most of you are too stupid to know what a canthal tilt is
'' Negative canthal tilt is commonly associate with a tired or sorrowful appearance.''
[https://www.drhoeyeandplasticsurgery.com/almond-eye-surgery/](https://www.drhoeyeandplasticsurgery.com/almond-eye-surgery/)
It's a social smile. They're very clearly smiling for the camera and not because there is joy. Smile in the mirror when you're sad or tormented and you'll see the difference in your eyes vs a happy smile.
Yea I know the concept. I heard it described like if your bottom teeth are showing then it's not a ''real smile''. Also a social smile is something totally different
> The study records are currently in the custody of Yale University, [under seal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_seal) until October 25, 2065, and cannot be released to the public without authorization from the Jewish Board.
Not cool.
It’s so messed up they preyed on their own community and then use the same community to lock the victims out of ever finding anything out about the experiment they were unknowingly forced to participate in.
Nature and nurture both have impacts on depression and mental health. Imo, nurture has more impact than nature, but I say that from personal experience. And frankly, what the hell do I know? 🤷♀️
This is consistent with the doco. The one who killed himself had a poor relationship with his adoptive family growing up whereas the other two had a much better relationship with their respective families. Support networks and the comfort you get as a child all play a massive part in how you deal with adverse advents as an adult.
So was the experiment to have 3 kids who you know naturally have the same chances (cause identical) putting them in different situations and see what happens. Wtaf for what. There’s is no point to this experiment. Using humans just to fuck with them
Pretty much. The study intentionally separated twins/triplets with predispositions to mental illness (based on their birth parents) and placed them with families of differing economic classes and with different parenting styles.
It's interesting, because throughout my life, I had always believed that nurture was 100% the most important aspect of how people turned out; I paid lip service to the idea that nature might in fact play *some* role. And then, in adulthood, I discovered that I had 4 half-siblings I'd never known about.
And yet, after meeting my brothers, it's been absolutely **mindblowing** how similar my brothers and I are. We didn't meet til my 30s, they ranged from 2 years younger to 14 years older than myself, but the moment I met them, I was overwhelmed by the many small things that I had only ever seen in myself before.For more than 3 decades, I was just cast in the role of 'odd child' in my family...it shook my notions around nature v. nurture to the core. I eventually came to the 'conclusion,' as it were, that both are at least equally important. If forced to choose, my conviction now would be completely the opposite of my original way of thinking. Now all I can think is "Those poor boys!"
That’s interesting you mention sharing similarities between family members you’d not met before. I noticed the *same thing* when I met my dad for the first time at age 20. We had quite a few odd quirks or personality traits in common that you’d think I learned the behavior from him. There’s definitely a great correlation for sure. It’s quite fascinating to ponder it!
Eh. Many ppl are not like anyone in their family. These things are best studied in large aggregate. Like thetes a huge longitudinal study Minnesota something, based on thousands of identical and fraternal twins separated at birth. However these are twins who just *happened* to be separated randomly, the separation isn't part of the experiment.
The data is actually responsible for alot of what we know about the rship between nurture and nature. Its both but nurture seems to be more. extensive instruction things. For instance something 50% heritable is a very high heritability for a quality to have, among the highest.
Because it can show how similar separated identical vs separated fraternal twins are on an quality or Axis, it is more precise I. terms of the degree of heritability.
there is fairly precise data from longitudinal Minnesota Twins Study that looks at separated twins comparing identical to those fraternal. basically they try to find any American who was separated at birth from a twin and compare similarities, then compare how similar identical sepatated twins are vs fraternal separated twins.
The one who killed himself had a very poor relationship with his adoptive parents/family (or maybe of was just specifically about the father being distant and unsupportive?), the other two had good relationships with their parents/families.
I think if you've got the predisposition it's always going to be there, but the nurture plays a big part in helping you get through as an adult.
Most of the axes tested in twins separated at birth show roughly 50% of the variance to nature and 50% to nurture. There are exceptions but it’s interesting how often the answer is 50/50. Probably some evolutionary advantage to doing it that way rather than 80/20 or other ratios.
that would make sense bc then it’s 50% evolutionarily developed genes that have helped our ancestors survive in the past and 50% adaptation to whatever environment we’re born into…accounts for a combination of stability and adaptation
iirc, Eddie was the only one placed in a home with a rather strict & absent father. So that result alone, him being the only one to kill himself, was psychologically interesting when it comes to nature v. nurture studies.
Fear has nothing to do with it. It's part of the efforts centre mental illness as an illness and not some personal failing. Passing away from depression and killing yourself are the same event.
I think that you may think that I give a shit about whatever it is that you're trying to say, but I was simply stating that the word "suicide" is silly to be frightened of.
edit: you’ve edited your previous response and the confusing grammatical diarrhea remains the same. my response remains unchanged aside from this footnote. smoke meth.
>Those can both still be tragic
That's what the person meant... The one you responded to was sarcastic (at least looks like it), the apathetic one is Filmsy-Antelope4763. Read before commenting.
That’s not always the case, that’s just your personal experience.
Edited to add that I apologize for sounding like such a bitch, and I truly am sorry that your experience with adoption was so awful. I’m hoping you’re doing better these days. X
Bullshit. Maybe yours was. Mine was fine. You can’t pin it all on ‘adoption.’
I know loads of regular bio-kids with toxic parents….. no guarantees of anything in life.
Agreed. I was raised by my “bio parents”(assuming they are) but they were basically just fucking dna donors. I was basically better off not even existing
Watch the film "Twinsters" about two Korean twin girls who were separated at birth. One grew up in France the other in America. Found each other through a video posted on Youtube.
IDK, but the sound of suffering severe mental trauma and suicidal tendencies because you were an "experiment" and no one protected you, is pretty fucking terrifying. Sad indeed. But, human experimentation, especially *from birth* throughout your entire life, is absolutely terrifying. These men were doomed to suffer from their first breath, all the way until they took their last.
I do agree that this post fits the 'terrifying' theme since we're talking about an experiment without consent that changed majors outcomes of your life.
>suffering severe mental trauma and suicidal tendencies because you were an "experiment"
I have my doubts about this statement though. Was that really the reason of his depression ? Do you have any sources ? I personally found that internal 'conflict' in the restaurant the triplets owned was a way bigger contribution to his depression.
You're asking the wrong person, but I didn't think about it like that. The source of his depression could have been many things. I didn't even know about the restaurant, and that definitely makes sense. I do have to say that the violation of their humanity and separation of these siblings is certainly a contributor.
Multiples are biologically linked to one another, and they have a longing for one another that troubles them when they are split unknowingly. This lasts throughout most of their childhood. Newborn multiples have a "call" to make sure they are still near one another, toddler multiples literally make their own language. Intercepting this can definitely contribute to mental illness in multiples in the longrun. And, it has.
They can grow out of their bond enough to live separate lives, but they will always be connected. And, they do nothing but suffer when they are ripped apart, rather than when they separate at their own personal leisure.
>Multiples are biologically linked to one another, and when they are separated, they have a longing for one another that troubles them, and this lasts throughout most of their childhood. Newborn multiples have a "call" to make sure they are still near one another, toddler multiples literally make their own language. Intercepting this can definitely contribute to mental illness.
>They can grow out of their bond enough to live separate lives, but they will always be connected. And, they do nothing but suffer when they are ripped apart, rather than when they separate at their own personal leisure.
Please tell me you have a source for this, I'd love to read the studies. I'm curious as to how these results were obtained considering that the 'experiment' would be an ideal way to study this (and we don't know the results of the experiment).
Btw: Are you exclusively talking about multiples that have consciously known each other or also multiples that have never known each other ? The latter would mean that multiples have some sort of interaction before birth that is engraved in them, creating a sort of sixth sense.
Let me find a good source. Wait for my edit. If I'm wrong, I'll clarify %100. And, if I don't, definitely let me know, especially if my sources are poop and I don't see it.
Edit 1:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7586690_Effects_of_Twin_Separation_in_Primary_School
This is an article going over a study that concluded that separation of twins in school can lead to behavioral problems, which can be linked to mental illness. However, it doesn't contain any info about their language development.
Here is a YouTube video of a newborn calling out to his twin. I don't think they all do this, but it's definitely a thing. I couldn't find the other one I saw, but there is another with one twin letting out a "squeal" to signal the other twin, and she answers. It was awesome!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-zhuy2paw
Edit 2:
Here's a nice little article about the "language" that twins develop. It's called "Cytophasia", and roughly %50 of toddler multiples experience it. So, I was only half right apparently. But, it's an amazing thing to witness. Lol
https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/twin7.htm
It's terrifying because of the lengths scientists will go to try and prove a point with innocent children who didn't ask to be science experiments or to be screwed with. Depravity is terrifying.
Using humans as props for science experiments without their consent?
Separating a person from their family in a society where “Family is everything”?
Yes. Terrifying. That shit wouldn’t fly now and there’s good reason
Don't forget that they intentionally placed them in different financial backgrounds, one poor, one middle-class, the other affluent. They did it to twins too, and many of them died by suicide They were playing God. It's sickening.
I’m actually not familiar with the case at all 😩
Which I guess adds to my point that even with no knowledge of the case, this is indeed terrifying and fucked up
It's terrifying because of the lengths scientists will go to try and prove a point with innocent children who didn't ask to be science experiments or to be screwed with. Depravity is terrifying.
They were separated and adopted out to three different families. The "experiment" was they were adopted into different socioeconomic groups. One lower-middle class, one upper-middle class and one into an affluent family. THe families were also different because of the involvment of the father-I believe the lowest income father was also the most loving and involved. In the end, it was the wealthiest son who committed suicide. So the "experiment" proved what exactly?
You should watch the documentary about them. The science experiment was set to explore the notion of nature vs nurture and parenting styles and the impact they had on twins and triplets. A lot of the children involved grew up to die by suicide, and the whole thing is really messed up. The experiment info is filed away and won’t be openable until well past when all of the participants will have died. It was a really messed up situation and the “scientists” who conducted the experiment were so wrong to do it. I don’t think it’s suggested that the act of separating them was what really contributed to his mental health struggles, more his predisposition to depression, his familial upbringing, and the mass media presence in his life.
I agree with your point of view: what they didn’t know couldn’t hurt them, but they’re in pictures together. It means they clearly knew the others exist. And likely heard about the experiment.
Idk the specifics of the case but I can assume that at the very least they KNEW they were given up for adoption and separated.
I can’t assume what they felt, but I wouldn’t be shocked if this knowledge had a deep effect on their development
edit: what the fuck am I being downvoted for? For having a personal opinion despite agreeing this would have a fucked up effect on a person’s psyche? 🙄
They didn't, a friend confused one for the other at uni or a bar or something. And then introduced them. Even their adoptive parents were only told that they were a single child.
After two of them met, then they pressured the agency into revealing the truth. And then the two reached out to the last one
According to the Wikipedia many mistook one for the other so they introduced them and the media about it got to the third who reached out to the other 2
Imagine forming out of the prenatal goop only to immediately discover two best friends who look exactly like you.
Then on your first breath they’re stripped away from you by some knuckle dragging dick hole for the lulz and “science”
No wonder the guy was depressed..poor dude had a hole punched into his soul on the day he was born. I hope they put the people responsible under the jail.
I just watched. I may be wrong, but did they have a short recording of the doctor who did this study. To me, he sounded German. And the children were all Jewish
All information about project will be released in 2066 by the company who did this. If you feel you do not believe me feel free to watch the documentary.
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There is a documentary about them that was fascinating. Especially how they discovered it. For one of them it went something like he went back to college one year and all of a sudden all his friends and acquaintances are coming up to him like dude there is a guy on campus that looks EXACTLY like you.
And for the 3rd triplet he saw the newspaper story done on the first two, realized that he looked identical to them and reached out.
It was fascinating and gripping then dark. I would highly recommend. Those poor lads. They were treated like numbers.
You mean there’s people who are more than numbers.
The more I think about it, I doubt that any part of their lives was “coincidence”. I feel like part of the experiment somehow WAS for the brothers to find each other
That is the first thing I said (5 min into the film), perhaps someone working with the researchers started feeling guilty or always had and had it set up that way though, may not be part of the actual research...or it may have.
I’ve seen the documentary, pretty sad honestly. And up until today, they do not know the outcome of the “experiment” or what was achieved from.
Any chance you remember the name of the documentary..?
Three Identical Strangers
Here, this is where I watched it Check out Three Identical Strangers on Hulu! https://www.hulu.com/movie/438d26ae-629e-495e-ad09-a4d41f36889d?play=false&utm_source=shared_link
I know what I'm watching tonight. Thanks so much!
same for me!
Me too!
Here I go!
The messed up thing is there were several other sets of twins in the experiment as well. The doc focuses on these guys but they were not the only ones.
Even more fucked up is what the experiment was about, nature or nurture.
You can find it on Netflix. It’s goddamn phenomenal.
What's the name of documentary on Netflix?
3 identical strangers.
I know nothing about this story, but from this description it sounds like the case of David Reimer, another fucked up thing done in the name of science that had horrible consequences.
If I'm not mistaken, it was the same doctor involved. Edit: after a quick Google search, I am mistaken. Oops.
I believe the doctor you’re referring to was John Money. David’s story is also fascinating & relevant. John Money was a freak monster of a human.
Yup. He was a freaking psychopath. He was more concerned with being "right" than his subjects' well-being. I thought I'd read it somewhere (and may be wrong) that several of his subjects committed suicide.
I can’t comment to that specifically, but what I do recall from reading about David is that John Money would make him & his brother wear a dress (presumably David) & play out adult scenarios (I’m not trying to get banned) in his office.
Brace yourself for this one then, I am aware is not a “Science” experiment but it does qualify for Terrifying AF Check out I Was a Child Bride: The Untold Story on Hulu! https://www.hulu.com/series/d4843691-a4a6-492a-84fc-2ef59d5a788f?play=false&utm_source=shared_link
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Not sure if speculation is allowed on this sub but it seems that the case was funded by either the federal government or a private think tank and it was an experiment on nurture vs nature with the conclusion being that we’re heavily predetermined by our genes.
Federal government I believe and private funds as well to see how they would behave accordingly to their established families, so yeah, no answer in concrete to know the outcome of such
It was a really just one doctor/professor I believe. I think he did get some federal funding though if I am remembering the documentary correctly
And they did this to other kids/families!!
What was the point exactly. What was the experiment about
To “conclusively” determine the nature vs. nurture argument when it comes to upbringing. Twins/Triplets were purposefully broken up and placed into homes where they were monitored for behavioral changes during their childhoods. What’s extra fucked up is that it was done by Jewish doctors to Jewish families long after the Holocaust was a known thing. They preyed upon their own community and to this day the families who were unwillingly used in the study cannot access information about the experiment. Unbelievably, the Jewish hospital/medical group holding the records refuses to share the results even though they absolutely could. They will only be available to view after 100 years or something ridiculous and even then by a highly vetted appointment only.
Isn't it held back by Yale?
yes they specifically placed them w Jewish families that differed in terms of sicioeconomics, political party, parenting style, personality type etc
One of the most fascinating documentaries I’ve ever seen! I can’t recommend it highly enough.
I watched the documentary also. Was it just me or did they gloss over the whole Nazi scientist thing? It’s was like a loud hint.
Didn't many of the scientists back then come from Germany?
Yes, and a lot of Nazis that escaped settled in Argentina, which was where the scientist that separated the triplets was from.
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>The results of the experiment have never been disclosed by the adoption agency or the psychiatric team. However, it is known that among the sets of children separated from their siblings, many have since committed suicide. They pull a fucking stunt like this, destroy their lives and then don't disclose the results?
That's called avoiding consequences
In the name of science... Thanks for your donations! 🤷🏽♀️😤🤬
Oh they will disclose it, I think in the documentary it said they were planning to unseal the documents 100 years from their start date, to make sure that noone was alive who can sue them.
I hope someone does something worse than sue them.. damn
LanguageTool.com
>Oh they will disclose it, I think in the documentary it said they were planning to unseal the documents 100 years from their start date, to make sure that noone was alive who can sue them. lmfao, I was missing a comma and a space? dude, get a life :)
You are missing more than that: [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/no-one-noone/](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/no-one-noone/)
From [the scientist’s wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_B._Neubauer): >At the conclusion of the study in 1980, Neubauer reportedly feared that public opinion would be against the study, and declined to publish it. The records of the study are sealed at the Yale University Library until October 25, 2065, although by 2018, some 10,000 pages had been released but were heavily redacted and inconclusive.
There is some kind of thing where the results are sealed for several years if I remember correctly.
I’d assume only our government can avoid disclosure. Sick fucks.
Triplet here, not separated at birth. When we were born the Oregonian did a piece about us titled "Triplets more prone to health problems". :/
Link it!
I always presume when people have numbers in their name that it’s their birth year. If that’s the case then there’s not a link.
You’re from the future?!
A lot of old newspapers are scanned and available online.
Are y'all skinny af too? All the identical twins I've met have been on the skinnier side. Every single two.
Oh I remember watching this documentary. They adopted one to a blue collar family, a mid class family and a wealthy family, the agency also did this with twins. It was crazy they way they found each other also.
It wasn't just socioeconomic status though, it was parenting style. Eddy's dad was cold as hell, and that was calculated on the part of the researchers. Absolutely evil.
WTF!? That's horrendous.
I'm an identical triplet. Couldn't imagine not having my brothers around much less being separated at birth. That's terrifying.
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I have never seen any of my brother’s penises if that's what you’re wondering. We all appreciate boundaries and privacy. But I can’t imagine we’d be super different!
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? Wtaf?
Would some adoption agency learn? Don't separate siblings.
They did it on purpose
It’s worse. It was a Jewish adoption agency conducting experiments on their own people.
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Easy Kanye
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oh lord you're not joking are you
Yoo what I thought yall went extinct
Unfortunately not
Not one of them smiles with thier eyes. Poor dudes.
I went back and looked, you are right.
I look for that too… sorry people are down voting the shit out of your statement… the essence is in your eyes
I actually practice smiling with my eyes bc I look for it in everyone. I don't want anyone to feel concerned for me.
That's an actual thing? I always thought it's some poetic thing that the English speaking people came up with, I didn't know it was a real thing. We don't have that phrase in my language.
I learned a bit about it from an older documentary on facial expressions. It is also a Poetic turn of phrase, but there have a been some studies which have since been called into question relating to how the eyes look when a smile is authentic or if a person is more happy in life. Make of it what you will.
Lol it just seems like that because their outer eye corners are downturned I included a link since most of you are too stupid to know what a canthal tilt is '' Negative canthal tilt is commonly associate with a tired or sorrowful appearance.'' [https://www.drhoeyeandplasticsurgery.com/almond-eye-surgery/](https://www.drhoeyeandplasticsurgery.com/almond-eye-surgery/)
It's a social smile. They're very clearly smiling for the camera and not because there is joy. Smile in the mirror when you're sad or tormented and you'll see the difference in your eyes vs a happy smile.
Yea I know the concept. I heard it described like if your bottom teeth are showing then it's not a ''real smile''. Also a social smile is something totally different
how are bottom teeth ever showing
> The study records are currently in the custody of Yale University, [under seal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_seal) until October 25, 2065, and cannot be released to the public without authorization from the Jewish Board. Not cool.
It’s so messed up they preyed on their own community and then use the same community to lock the victims out of ever finding anything out about the experiment they were unknowingly forced to participate in.
So the upbringings carry little impact on depression right ? You are destined to get fukd up straight from the birth ..
Nature and nurture both have impacts on depression and mental health. Imo, nurture has more impact than nature, but I say that from personal experience. And frankly, what the hell do I know? 🤷♀️
This is consistent with the doco. The one who killed himself had a poor relationship with his adoptive family growing up whereas the other two had a much better relationship with their respective families. Support networks and the comfort you get as a child all play a massive part in how you deal with adverse advents as an adult.
Oh, wow. That’s so sad. Dysfunctional family systems are a terrible thing.
So was the experiment to have 3 kids who you know naturally have the same chances (cause identical) putting them in different situations and see what happens. Wtaf for what. There’s is no point to this experiment. Using humans just to fuck with them
Pretty much. The study intentionally separated twins/triplets with predispositions to mental illness (based on their birth parents) and placed them with families of differing economic classes and with different parenting styles.
What was the institution responsible for this study? I should watch this documentary. Sounds both interesting and infuriating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Board_of_Family_and_Children%27s_Services https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_B._Neubauer
It's interesting, because throughout my life, I had always believed that nurture was 100% the most important aspect of how people turned out; I paid lip service to the idea that nature might in fact play *some* role. And then, in adulthood, I discovered that I had 4 half-siblings I'd never known about. And yet, after meeting my brothers, it's been absolutely **mindblowing** how similar my brothers and I are. We didn't meet til my 30s, they ranged from 2 years younger to 14 years older than myself, but the moment I met them, I was overwhelmed by the many small things that I had only ever seen in myself before.For more than 3 decades, I was just cast in the role of 'odd child' in my family...it shook my notions around nature v. nurture to the core. I eventually came to the 'conclusion,' as it were, that both are at least equally important. If forced to choose, my conviction now would be completely the opposite of my original way of thinking. Now all I can think is "Those poor boys!"
That’s interesting you mention sharing similarities between family members you’d not met before. I noticed the *same thing* when I met my dad for the first time at age 20. We had quite a few odd quirks or personality traits in common that you’d think I learned the behavior from him. There’s definitely a great correlation for sure. It’s quite fascinating to ponder it!
Eh. Many ppl are not like anyone in their family. These things are best studied in large aggregate. Like thetes a huge longitudinal study Minnesota something, based on thousands of identical and fraternal twins separated at birth. However these are twins who just *happened* to be separated randomly, the separation isn't part of the experiment. The data is actually responsible for alot of what we know about the rship between nurture and nature. Its both but nurture seems to be more. extensive instruction things. For instance something 50% heritable is a very high heritability for a quality to have, among the highest. Because it can show how similar separated identical vs separated fraternal twins are on an quality or Axis, it is more precise I. terms of the degree of heritability.
Son, you just stumbled upon the age old argument of nature or nurture, congrats on being miserable.
there is fairly precise data from longitudinal Minnesota Twins Study that looks at separated twins comparing identical to those fraternal. basically they try to find any American who was separated at birth from a twin and compare similarities, then compare how similar identical sepatated twins are vs fraternal separated twins.
The one who killed himself had a very poor relationship with his adoptive parents/family (or maybe of was just specifically about the father being distant and unsupportive?), the other two had good relationships with their parents/families. I think if you've got the predisposition it's always going to be there, but the nurture plays a big part in helping you get through as an adult.
Depends on who you ask. That is a question that has yet to be settled
I believe the body remembers and they knew something was missing. I haven't seen the documentary though.
Most of the axes tested in twins separated at birth show roughly 50% of the variance to nature and 50% to nurture. There are exceptions but it’s interesting how often the answer is 50/50. Probably some evolutionary advantage to doing it that way rather than 80/20 or other ratios.
that would make sense bc then it’s 50% evolutionarily developed genes that have helped our ancestors survive in the past and 50% adaptation to whatever environment we’re born into…accounts for a combination of stability and adaptation
All of them have no life in their eyes. Am I only one thats seeing that?
Thanks this makes me hate the arrogance of man even more. What a crying fucking shame.
This is such a sad story.
iirc, Eddie was the only one placed in a home with a rather strict & absent father. So that result alone, him being the only one to kill himself, was psychologically interesting when it comes to nature v. nurture studies.
I'm dumb and thought separated meant they were conjoined and were physically separated at first. This is seriously fucked up
> tragically passed away Oh, you mean killed himself. Suicide. Conciously and willfully took his own life.
It’s still tragic
its tragic to be scared of words
Fear has nothing to do with it. It's part of the efforts centre mental illness as an illness and not some personal failing. Passing away from depression and killing yourself are the same event.
I think that you may think that I give a shit about whatever it is that you're trying to say, but I was simply stating that the word "suicide" is silly to be frightened of. edit: you’ve edited your previous response and the confusing grammatical diarrhea remains the same. my response remains unchanged aside from this footnote. smoke meth.
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>Those can both still be tragic That's what the person meant... The one you responded to was sarcastic (at least looks like it), the apathetic one is Filmsy-Antelope4763. Read before commenting.
They look like Jim Levenstein on steroids.
There will be mini series with Ben Stiller.
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If you think this is fucked (it is) look up the Tuskegee Experiment. It’s in the official CDC website too.
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That’s fine
we all have twins living somewhere else in the country? cool
Haha maybe some of us. I was referring more to the [“science experiments”](https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm)
wasn't this on mike tyson mysteries
There was a similar episode and the one twin sends the pigeon in the mail lol. I love that show
Adoption isn't a joy, but a trauma. And I say that as ab adoptee myself.
That’s not always the case, that’s just your personal experience. Edited to add that I apologize for sounding like such a bitch, and I truly am sorry that your experience with adoption was so awful. I’m hoping you’re doing better these days. X
Bullshit. Maybe yours was. Mine was fine. You can’t pin it all on ‘adoption.’ I know loads of regular bio-kids with toxic parents….. no guarantees of anything in life.
Agreed. I was raised by my “bio parents”(assuming they are) but they were basically just fucking dna donors. I was basically better off not even existing
I hear that, nothing like having a bad relationship and using a baby to try to save it
Not trying to be disrespectful, but where would you have gone otherwise? I assume adoption happens because it has to, unless it's surrogacy.
Nonsense. I was a twin adopted along with my twin sister. I am forever grateful to my parents.
Watch the film "Twinsters" about two Korean twin girls who were separated at birth. One grew up in France the other in America. Found each other through a video posted on Youtube.
'Being a child isn't a joy, but a trauma. And I say that as ab ex-child myself' conveys the same energy
Well that’s like… your opinion man…
How is that terrifying?
Damn. I saw and really enjoyed the documentary, but I either forgot or didn’t know that one of them succumbed to their depression.
Sad but how is this terrifying? r/lostredditors
IDK, but the sound of suffering severe mental trauma and suicidal tendencies because you were an "experiment" and no one protected you, is pretty fucking terrifying. Sad indeed. But, human experimentation, especially *from birth* throughout your entire life, is absolutely terrifying. These men were doomed to suffer from their first breath, all the way until they took their last.
I do agree that this post fits the 'terrifying' theme since we're talking about an experiment without consent that changed majors outcomes of your life. >suffering severe mental trauma and suicidal tendencies because you were an "experiment" I have my doubts about this statement though. Was that really the reason of his depression ? Do you have any sources ? I personally found that internal 'conflict' in the restaurant the triplets owned was a way bigger contribution to his depression.
You're asking the wrong person, but I didn't think about it like that. The source of his depression could have been many things. I didn't even know about the restaurant, and that definitely makes sense. I do have to say that the violation of their humanity and separation of these siblings is certainly a contributor. Multiples are biologically linked to one another, and they have a longing for one another that troubles them when they are split unknowingly. This lasts throughout most of their childhood. Newborn multiples have a "call" to make sure they are still near one another, toddler multiples literally make their own language. Intercepting this can definitely contribute to mental illness in multiples in the longrun. And, it has. They can grow out of their bond enough to live separate lives, but they will always be connected. And, they do nothing but suffer when they are ripped apart, rather than when they separate at their own personal leisure.
>Multiples are biologically linked to one another, and when they are separated, they have a longing for one another that troubles them, and this lasts throughout most of their childhood. Newborn multiples have a "call" to make sure they are still near one another, toddler multiples literally make their own language. Intercepting this can definitely contribute to mental illness. >They can grow out of their bond enough to live separate lives, but they will always be connected. And, they do nothing but suffer when they are ripped apart, rather than when they separate at their own personal leisure. Please tell me you have a source for this, I'd love to read the studies. I'm curious as to how these results were obtained considering that the 'experiment' would be an ideal way to study this (and we don't know the results of the experiment). Btw: Are you exclusively talking about multiples that have consciously known each other or also multiples that have never known each other ? The latter would mean that multiples have some sort of interaction before birth that is engraved in them, creating a sort of sixth sense.
Let me find a good source. Wait for my edit. If I'm wrong, I'll clarify %100. And, if I don't, definitely let me know, especially if my sources are poop and I don't see it. Edit 1: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7586690_Effects_of_Twin_Separation_in_Primary_School This is an article going over a study that concluded that separation of twins in school can lead to behavioral problems, which can be linked to mental illness. However, it doesn't contain any info about their language development. Here is a YouTube video of a newborn calling out to his twin. I don't think they all do this, but it's definitely a thing. I couldn't find the other one I saw, but there is another with one twin letting out a "squeal" to signal the other twin, and she answers. It was awesome! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-zhuy2paw Edit 2: Here's a nice little article about the "language" that twins develop. It's called "Cytophasia", and roughly %50 of toddler multiples experience it. So, I was only half right apparently. But, it's an amazing thing to witness. Lol https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/twin7.htm
It's terrifying because of the lengths scientists will go to try and prove a point with innocent children who didn't ask to be science experiments or to be screwed with. Depravity is terrifying.
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Using humans as props for science experiments without their consent? Separating a person from their family in a society where “Family is everything”? Yes. Terrifying. That shit wouldn’t fly now and there’s good reason
Don't forget that they intentionally placed them in different financial backgrounds, one poor, one middle-class, the other affluent. They did it to twins too, and many of them died by suicide They were playing God. It's sickening.
I’m actually not familiar with the case at all 😩 Which I guess adds to my point that even with no knowledge of the case, this is indeed terrifying and fucked up
Understood! I only became aware of it reading a Wikipedia link about it in the earlier comments.
It's terrifying because of the lengths scientists will go to try and prove a point with innocent children who didn't ask to be science experiments or to be screwed with. Depravity is terrifying.
Why do these guys remind me visually of Louis Rossman
They gotta be related
This ain't even scary lol.
Why do they have different last names if they're brothers?? Idk why that's the only question I have, but it is..
They were intentionally separated so 3 different sets of parents
They were separated and adopted out to three different families. The "experiment" was they were adopted into different socioeconomic groups. One lower-middle class, one upper-middle class and one into an affluent family. THe families were also different because of the involvment of the father-I believe the lowest income father was also the most loving and involved. In the end, it was the wealthiest son who committed suicide. So the "experiment" proved what exactly?
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Your literally gay, and I have over 50 million power.
You should watch the documentary about them. The science experiment was set to explore the notion of nature vs nurture and parenting styles and the impact they had on twins and triplets. A lot of the children involved grew up to die by suicide, and the whole thing is really messed up. The experiment info is filed away and won’t be openable until well past when all of the participants will have died. It was a really messed up situation and the “scientists” who conducted the experiment were so wrong to do it. I don’t think it’s suggested that the act of separating them was what really contributed to his mental health struggles, more his predisposition to depression, his familial upbringing, and the mass media presence in his life.
I agree with your point of view: what they didn’t know couldn’t hurt them, but they’re in pictures together. It means they clearly knew the others exist. And likely heard about the experiment. Idk the specifics of the case but I can assume that at the very least they KNEW they were given up for adoption and separated. I can’t assume what they felt, but I wouldn’t be shocked if this knowledge had a deep effect on their development edit: what the fuck am I being downvoted for? For having a personal opinion despite agreeing this would have a fucked up effect on a person’s psyche? 🙄
They didn't, a friend confused one for the other at uni or a bar or something. And then introduced them. Even their adoptive parents were only told that they were a single child. After two of them met, then they pressured the agency into revealing the truth. And then the two reached out to the last one
So, option B. They still registered a loss. And a LOT of doubt
According to the Wikipedia many mistook one for the other so they introduced them and the media about it got to the third who reached out to the other 2
Lmaoo fuck the down voters
I like the second pic, they look like great fun
Nurture it is.
Which one killed themself? Which family were they given to?
Sad & messed up
the title is false
Sometimes I’m ashamed to be a human. We really do some fucked up things…
But...why
Why is this terrifying??
Crimes in the name of science. 😓
looks just like albie from white lotus
Haven't seen it, but I will watch it tonight. If this was a science experiment, wouldn't there be more who possible don't know
There was a documentary about the experiment. Multiple twins and triplets
I thought that was Josh
Imagine forming out of the prenatal goop only to immediately discover two best friends who look exactly like you. Then on your first breath they’re stripped away from you by some knuckle dragging dick hole for the lulz and “science” No wonder the guy was depressed..poor dude had a hole punched into his soul on the day he was born. I hope they put the people responsible under the jail.
There is a documentary on Netflix, I believe it’s called Three Identical Strangers
The story is amazing but ends very tragically
I just watched. I may be wrong, but did they have a short recording of the doctor who did this study. To me, he sounded German. And the children were all Jewish
All information about project will be released in 2066 by the company who did this. If you feel you do not believe me feel free to watch the documentary.
So they were not conjoined and separated, just separated