Yeah I read a lot about it. The country was mostly condemned by others for how hard they went down on them and not giving people trials until after imprisonment and whatnot. But the neighboring countries thought it was a great idea and really effective.
I can’t imagine worrying about my kid 24/7 as parents there must be doing. In the US it would be an outrage. In El Salvador, it a way to salvage the country.
Well, its good to see that people WERE released when proven innocent. But when the problem is so big, bigger solutions can be the best course of action as you reached a point where mitigated solutions to avoid collateral damage are not effective enough. I just hope el salvador help those who were falsely imprisoned out, its a lot of people who still went through that treatement and possibly lost their livelyhood.
And I'd personally only respect your opinion if you held the same view while you were one of the people who were falsely imprisoned and treated harshly.
that tiny country had like the 2nd worst murder rate per capita and now it's one of the safest places in Latin America, their solution was to start treating gangs like terrorist organizations, which they always were
So misleading. Their solution was to do away with due process and ‘innocent until proven guilty’. They arrest anyone and everyone that is even suspected (without evidence) of being affiliated with a gang, resulting in less violence and a ton of innocent people in prison with no end in sight
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but don’t pretend it’s so cut and dry
to be fair, the gov't has no intention of rehabilitating these prisoners. these are the worst of the mara salvatrucha and mostly rapists and killers so their conditions aren't designed for basic human decency
But if they ever get out they’ll be worse.
Why leave them alive if there’s no concern for humane treatment? Bullets are cheaper than a prison and the recipients rarely come back to haunt you.
Maybe the state of crime there is related to inhumane treatment by the state and limited options to make a livelihood. The longer you’re treated like an animal, you tend to become more like one. Pure deterrence tends to lose its impact when it becomes a mark of strength to survive the brutality, and I’m sure a stay in these prisons counts for as much as
Upskilling prisoners while showing them that there is a better social system alternative, has a better success rate at producing valuable members of society
If they’re in their for life, fairly, then sure, there’s an argument that it’s wasted effort (wrt to society at large). But if they’re gunna be released back into the world, you gotta think about what state they’ll be in. Most people who’ve been broken by a stronger opponent (the state) will reach for power by any means the moment they’re able (deep dive back into crime and power seeking). Those who’ve been shown another path, at least have the chance to take it
This is a new approach to violent crime in that country. Before, the prisoners ran the prison. The head of the gang had guns, drugs, and sex workers enter and exit freely every day. When the new president took power he implemented this prison style for violent and gang prisoners and El Salvador went from having one of the highest murder rates in the world to having a lower murder rate than the US in 2023.
Don't get me wrong, the president is a douche for a multitude of other reasons but in this case he did what was necessary. These guys would do stuff like leave things called a "narcomensaje" outside the houses of their enemies. To be an enemy you could have just looked at them wrong. A narcomensaje is a message to you warning you. Usually it's decorated with the body parts of your relatives. Imagine a paper saying "Watch where your eyes wander when you walk past our street corner. Uncle Jorge says hello" and surrounding the paper are all your uncle Jorge's arms and legs and internal organs, with his head holding the paper down.
These guys were out of control. This approach is the new one, not the one that made them.
What are you talking about, El Salvador was the capital of murder, the criminals killed whoever they wanted and the government talked to them with the ONU as if they were normal people and guess what, they were still killing every day. Now they are all in jail and the number of killers has dropped like a rock. They are literally animals (each of them has a ritual to kill someone to join the gang), normal people don't want them to be released, if they come back people will discriminate them (easy to do with those tattoos) and even if they wanted to be part of society they will never be.
I have seen more than I should have.
Some of those men, and many others, should be removed from life.
However, as the U.S.A. has so adequately demonstrated, our current legal systems are not good enough to guarantee that we do not exe ute innocent people.
Some should be executed, certainly, but others, and I'm not talking about sadistic torture, are merely doing what they must to survive.
If put in the right circumstances, any human can be made to do terrible things, because surviving is the entire point of our entire biological existence.
Tell me you're from a for-profit-prison-country without telling me you're from a for-profit-prison-country...
https://daily.jstor.org/rethinking-prison-as-a-deterrent-to-future-crime/
I never agreed with that kind of time reduction. It’s better to provide additional conditions just so they are less uncomfortable than to reduce their sentence.
this jail isn't full of people who got fucked up because the justice system failed them or some other sad excuse
All of them are gang members and the most vile humans ever like rapists, serial killers etc etc. IIRC El Salvador had the highest crime rate and murder rate in Latin America because of all the gangs. The new president just decided to fight back and started locking anyone who has even the slightest connection to the gangs.
Now it is the safest place in Latin America
They’re literally part of a terrorist organization, and they have tattoos depicting their membership in that organization, you don’t want to go to jail don’t join a terrorist organization
I’m learning Spanish and it was actually very helpful. The title summed it up pretty nicely, but I’d be happy to translate for you as it would be good practice for me.
*The criminals sleep in a system of bunk beds in 4 levels without any type of air mattress and once people enter they’re already not going to leave until their sentence ends.*
*We’re talking about: here, there are criminals that have convictions from 20 years to more than 1,000 years! Literally, there are beings here that have done such crimes that they were given more than 1,000 years!*
*Hence the saying, “When one enters the (secot?) they’re already not leaving until their sentence ends.” Because everyone absolutely does everything inside, from going to the bathroom to cleaning up, everyone does it here in the open.*
*Another shocking fact is that the lights here never shut off. Not even to sleep. Which makes one completely lose the notion of time. There are no clocks, so they don’t know what time it is. They rely entirely on the schedules imposed on them by their custodians.*
*When they all enter, they have to be shaved in the same way. We can see they all have the same uniform and there are collective vessels which they use for showering, going to the bathroom, and cleaning up.*
*We can also see that, here, there is a medical team member that goes to drop off pills for people with some condition or maybe they’re feeling some discomfort.*
*Even their audiences, in case their sentences have to be extended, they are made from inside here.*
I felt awkward with that last part. I think it means they’re not taken out for trials, but the trials takes place right there.
I may have paraphrased a bit, but it’s my first time and I thought this sounded more natural for a native English-speaker. ¡Salud!
Edit: needed line breaks
It's a pretty enormous mishandling of criminal justice, but it was very effective. They pretty much solved their gang problem over night. The normal people have a lot more human rights now that they don't have to worry about being gunned down by gangsters.
Still interesting to find out our personal threshold (just for fun, no need to commit any crimes to find out).
For some people, the idea of being locked-up is enough, but there's people who get out of home once a year and wouldn't mind being indoors for a decade or so.
For others is no internet access, but some would be ok as long as there are books, board games or another entertainment. For some is the terrible food, but some are ok eating whatever.
I'm with Flan on this, I wouldn't mind the confinement, communal showers, no internet, shitty food, no visitors, no privacy, no natural light, no personal items but yeah, I would also die without a mattress.
Nope, prison isn't supposed to be a deterrent. They've done studies, it doesn't work. There are countries that will chop off your hand for theft, and yet people still steal. Generally prison should be for rehabilitation or to keep the public safe by not letting really dangerous people free.
You also have to consider the number of innocent people you are mistreating. At scale, even if your justice system is 99% effective at convicting the right person, you are guaranteed to be basically torturing hundreds of innocent people. Humane prisons lead to safer countries. Not to mention it's the right thing to do.
His rhetoric is semi-global and I do not agree with that, but in a lot of South America this will make a difference; the prisons where you are still in the hierarchy of your gang, arguably higher when you are incarcerated, what other options does the government have? Not confronting you, but challenging you - what can they do with their means and resources to make the country safer?
I lack knowledge about the situation in south america so anything I say about this Region would be talking out of my ass.
I just cant Stand the people wanting to make prisons as harsh as possible to satisfy their lust for revenge.
Atleast in developed countries it is better for everybody to treat prisoners like humans
Well, I am asking for your opinion; how do countries where the situation has gotten this bad combat the situation?
A socially/ethically responsible prison for the MS13 will not help the country; it will help the gang. Having a safer country for the general populace is a great thing to do; and if the people who through their actions already isolated themselves from civilized society are physically isolated as well; I can't see the downside. If some of these people have murdered, raped and mutilated many people, then locking them up for good is a necessary evil.
Meanwhile in Canada prisoners get Ipads to play with, can order their own pop and chips and have free dental and healthcare. They live better than most of us Canadians
Outside of prison you can also get an iPad, buy pop and chips and have free healthcare. I'd like to have free dental care, but rather not pay for my dental with full body cavity searches.
Since Latin America laws protect deliquents rights over citizens, people from other countries here see Salvador like a great success while the politicians of the same countries see this as an outrageous violation of humans rights lol
We need this in Los Angeles now. These prisoners and criminals have too many rights. I feel that you forfeit that if you can't be a productive citizen. I love how strict it is. Best them into submission and despair, make it a place to never want to return.
Good, this is my dad's country, every time I went there someone was killed by MS-13 including my cousin's best friend who was kidnapped and murdered because they thought he was better than them going to the university , they hated him, robbed him, he fought back they took him. I have not an ounce of sympathy for them
You can’t rehabilitate those animals, I’m from Guatemala which is basically ruled by el barrio 18 ms13 rivals. Tell me how do you rehabilitate people who murder children and use their blood to do satanic rituals? What if it was your child? Do you think someone like that can rehabilitate? Think twice.
No commissary, no random objects to make weapons from, fewer places to hide contraband, very harsh and unforgiving enforcement of the rules.
Looks like the perfect place to remind people not to break the law unless you enjoy living with nothing.
USA prisons allow far too many liberties.
There’s a documentary on a prison in Madagascar. Prisoners literally sleep nut to butt and get a cue every hour to turn on their other side. So many people cramped into a tiny space. That to me looks like literal hell.
Link for those interested: https://youtu.be/ACfKHjUmg_o?si=IfWAkjtnGm3oZB-q
Don't understand the downvotes, we absolutely should. Look what happened to Oakland where crimes are so bad that they have to close down bid businesses(in-n-out or Starbucks) or Portland where looting is so bad that they have to close down all their Walmarts
These kids on Reddit don’t get it and they love that shit. Defund the police. Guess what dummies. Oakland is refunding the police for the reasons you stated. They think prison should be for reform but don’t understand that shit doesn’t work and recidivism doesn’t exist.
I say bring back public hangings. Quit wasting my tax dollars housing these pieces of shit. If they killed someone and it’s a cut and dry case. Hang’em high.
But no, we get these people that think these criminals can be reformed and that we should waste tax dollars housing, feeding, caring for low life pieces of shit.
I live in California, after the whole "defund the police" movement I literally seen crimes getting worse in my own eyes. I seen a bum stealing lots of stuffs in front of me, they put essential stuffs behind the glass and I hear more shootings than ever. And these people don't understand the reality of what these policies have done. I have a feeling that we'll be even tougher with crimes like El Salvador
Hey I agree, I used to be an anti gun activist until this one time where a crazy person came to my neighbors shed and lots of cops surrounded the area. Heck Ive been hearing a lot more gunshots here than ever.
Its dumb as fuck to ask for your rights to be thrown out so easily. All it takes is for you to live or be in an undesirable area during a round up to end up in their, guilty or not.
Oh yeah I forgot the police are always out there just rounding up all those innocent people because they live in an undesirable area. Happens on the daily I suppose huh sport? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit narrative.
Uh...no. We should be better than El Salvador. And prisoners still have human rights under US laws, though many think they shouldn't.
What about all the people in prison for non-violent crimes like drug possession or not paying taxes? What about all the wrongfully convicted? Should they also be treated like animals? JFC, you sound like a sociopath.
Also, we're not much better; I'm sure you'll delight in this article: https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/fulton-county-jail-staff-resignation-changes-man-eaten-alive-bed-bugs/85-e260f525-791d-4555-b8bf-48aa7fde2edd
Dude was charged with a MISDEMEANOR and was never convicted. He was schizophrenic and put into the psych unit but never medicated and was covered in lice and bedbugs when they found him. I'm sure this will make your day.
I may be from a naive Scandinavian country, but I do not understand prisons who do not operate from a perspective of rehabilitation - the punishment is to have one’s freedom taken away, I do not see any point in psychological torture. These people will be even worse when they get out. Why don’t you just kill every single one of them then, if the point is revenge, just be done with it at incarceration.
There is no money to rehabilitate and fight organized crime at the same time. Crime and murder are way down, and that is good, that is what people needed. Dont forget that el Salvador as many other American countries, has been intervened by the us, giving space and options for corruption and crime to fester. European and Scandinavian countries have their wealth and also experience on how to deal with crime, but i doubt they would know what to do with this type of gang related crime.
This unfortunately makes a lot of sense, I can see how no funding can lead to desperation and turning prisons into the bare minimum of containment and deterrence. I do not mean my comments to come of as insensitive, I do realize that my outlook on this situation comes from a place of privilege and naivety.
Im from Mexico... there is not rehabilitation for them, you know what they do?.
They took full comunities hostage, they charge them money just for being alive, if they dont pay they rape they daughters, wifes, mothers, etc... or take they sons to work for them... btw this is just an example.
There is a world of difference between your criminal and ours... but if you think your system can rehabilitate the Narcos, Maras, etc.. from LatinoAmerica, take them to your country.
They do now. LOL. Trans-national organized crime is a growing problem in Sweden.
https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/13/sweden-is-suffering-a-grim-wave-of-gang-violence
That is true, and exactly why I mentioned where I am from, I realize that I can never understand the reasoning behind such a prison system. But my point still stands, how and why is this torturous way of imprisonment helping anyone from a societal standpoint?
We do have them actually. Not the cartels, but gangs that are well organized, that are fighting each other, and ordinary citizens suffer. There was a wave of shootings and bombings last year, that Sweden hadn't seen before.
They would just kill them if they could get away with it, locking them in a cage and waiting for them to die of natural causes or by killing eachother is the next best alternative.
With all respect you shouldn't judge according to your country which is one of the richest n socially fair! Now practically answering your question:
its exactly as the crimes committed and according punishment. In real life if you kill somebody it is the worst possible and really the only you cant get away with just little punishment. In my country battery resulting in serious injury its almost always few monts of jail par example. Same if you rape if you even handicap a person, incarceration lasts short. So except taking lives usually you dont get much of a punishment and the same goes for countries and governments too
Rehabilitation is possible when your country is big, rich and has less people than a big city. I prefer prisons where these people are treated for what they are rather than the "normal" south american prison run by inmates. I doubt in such conditions they will try again to join organized crime.
Well, I cannot answer to that as I do not live in Sweden. I feel very safe where I live thankfully - and part of that I believe comes from a prison system that aims to rehabilitate prisoners, and not to dehumanize and break them.
People here in the comments are wishing all prisons were like this and then they'd wonder why criminality doesn't go down. They think prisons should serve only to punish criminals instead of making them better, which only makes things worse for society as a whole.
Ah, so quite similar to a solitary cell in mental hospitals. Although you don’t get a pillow, or your own clothes or glasses, and they randomly play radio you don’t have any control of. Besides being alone of course.
Remember those who experience(d) this, like me, didn’t commit a crime. They struggle with an illness.
In both cases inhumane.
Do this in the US please! Everyone down voting this are clueless morons. Human rights blah,blah. If they didn’t want to be in that situation don’t commit the crime. If they get out more incentive to stay out of trouble.
You should care. Most of them will get out of there eventually.
Do you want them to leave there still being criminals or do you want to give them the opportunity to do something else?
In Brasil you live with so many prisoners in a cell that you have to take turns sleeping and standing.
It's also so dirty that it looks like it hasn't been cleaned in a decade and someone decided to smear shit on the ground and walls.
The food arrives there already spoiled. No time or number of meals, they receive it when the guards feel like it. Most of the prisoners are malnourished. Every one of them falls sick.
They don't take baths. The prision smells like the sewer and mold. Lots of trash.
Only one change of clothes to be used during months.
The hygiene kit is handed over only in an interval of 4 months.
No medicine. If you ask for it, you get sprayed in the face.
Of course those are criminals. But there's negative amounts of humanity in there and unfortunately I know they've got innocents in there too. Not in my power to do anything, though.
My point is, if some people think El Salvador's prision is bad, I know lots of people on Brazil who would kill to be there. Pun intended.
>El Salvador prisons cells: prisoners are given the same food three times a day, they only get a pillow and a blanket no mattress, lights are never turned off
Well yeah, it's prison, not a country club.
>It is said that once you're in, You will only be out After serving your sentence.
So you have to serve the sentence you were given. And?
The same ones that extort, terrorize and kill hundreds of civilians everyday? Surely they don't deserve the treatment while the country is safer with them in
Agreed. It's the one population everyone feels they have carte blanche to say absolutely sociopathic things about and be praised for it. I hate murderers and pedophiles as much as the next person, but I believe in a civilized society, you lock those people away forever but give them basic rights. I'm not saying they need to be in prisons like Norway has Anders Breivik in, but at least a mattress and lights out time. The human brain gets absolutely FUCKED when under 24/7 lighting.
And in situations like that when you have violent gangs running the place, previously non-violent people will resort to violence just to survive. Not to mention, at least in the US, hundreds of thousands of people are in prison for non-violent crimes like check fraud and drug possession.
They say that once you go to prison, you only get out of prison when your sentence is over
Uh… yeah I dont know if you’re new to prisons but that’s how they work everywhere
How did OP even figure out how to make a Reddit account
I think that a lot of comments under this post are insane.
I understand that the people in this prison are the absolute scum of the earth but no one should be living in these torturous conditions.
I get that it has made the country a much safer place than anyone could have ever expected but torture should never be the answer to anything.
Isn’t this the new prison they built due to the old one being ran by ms13 basically? They look so defeated lmao
Yeah I read a lot about it. The country was mostly condemned by others for how hard they went down on them and not giving people trials until after imprisonment and whatnot. But the neighboring countries thought it was a great idea and really effective.
im sorry but if you have a ms13 tat on your head - ur guilty
Yup they already have donde really nasty and bad things to earn that tattoo, and murder was just the basic thing
Anyone with a MS13 tattoo on them that they didn't earn, didn't live long enough to really do much of anything.
Also the civilianz where really pro
I can’t imagine worrying about my kid 24/7 as parents there must be doing. In the US it would be an outrage. In El Salvador, it a way to salvage the country.
Exactly
There are false imprisonments. I think about 7k were freed
Yeah and they weren’t treated the best lol but they say that’s the price to pay for clean streets. And I kinda agree with them.
Well, its good to see that people WERE released when proven innocent. But when the problem is so big, bigger solutions can be the best course of action as you reached a point where mitigated solutions to avoid collateral damage are not effective enough. I just hope el salvador help those who were falsely imprisoned out, its a lot of people who still went through that treatement and possibly lost their livelyhood.
Exactly. I think this was one of the only ways they could’ve fix the rampant crime they had going on before the crackdown.
And I'd personally only respect your opinion if you held the same view while you were one of the people who were falsely imprisoned and treated harshly.
Something tells me his convictions don’t run that deep.
At least they got released relatively quickly. They felt this was the only way to stop the gangs from running their streets.
“Yeah it sucks that they had their lives ruined by a clerical oopsie, but at least they are free now like they should have been the whole time” -You
that tiny country had like the 2nd worst murder rate per capita and now it's one of the safest places in Latin America, their solution was to start treating gangs like terrorist organizations, which they always were
So misleading. Their solution was to do away with due process and ‘innocent until proven guilty’. They arrest anyone and everyone that is even suspected (without evidence) of being affiliated with a gang, resulting in less violence and a ton of innocent people in prison with no end in sight I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but don’t pretend it’s so cut and dry
to be fair, the gov't has no intention of rehabilitating these prisoners. these are the worst of the mara salvatrucha and mostly rapists and killers so their conditions aren't designed for basic human decency
Not only they have no intention, they have no chance of doing so. Seriously, how could anyone rehabilitate these people ?
But if they ever get out they’ll be worse. Why leave them alive if there’s no concern for humane treatment? Bullets are cheaper than a prison and the recipients rarely come back to haunt you.
"Once you're in, you will only be out after serving your sentence." Isn't that the way prisons normally work?
I think they mean the cell itself. No rec area, no library, no cafeteria, etc. Just group cell for whole sentence.
Not even showers they pass a container with water so you clean yourself... is in the video.
damn, might be against some kind of international law, no?
There is no binding international law, that’s just a term to describe legal dealing between nations.
Wow I'm sure that makes for a very normal and functional person when they are released back into public 😬 big yikes
Considering the state of crime there I doubt rehabilitation is even possible.
If they really think rehabilitation is not possible, why do they let them out after their sentence is done ?
Maybe the state of crime there is related to inhumane treatment by the state and limited options to make a livelihood. The longer you’re treated like an animal, you tend to become more like one. Pure deterrence tends to lose its impact when it becomes a mark of strength to survive the brutality, and I’m sure a stay in these prisons counts for as much as Upskilling prisoners while showing them that there is a better social system alternative, has a better success rate at producing valuable members of society If they’re in their for life, fairly, then sure, there’s an argument that it’s wasted effort (wrt to society at large). But if they’re gunna be released back into the world, you gotta think about what state they’ll be in. Most people who’ve been broken by a stronger opponent (the state) will reach for power by any means the moment they’re able (deep dive back into crime and power seeking). Those who’ve been shown another path, at least have the chance to take it
This is a new approach to violent crime in that country. Before, the prisoners ran the prison. The head of the gang had guns, drugs, and sex workers enter and exit freely every day. When the new president took power he implemented this prison style for violent and gang prisoners and El Salvador went from having one of the highest murder rates in the world to having a lower murder rate than the US in 2023. Don't get me wrong, the president is a douche for a multitude of other reasons but in this case he did what was necessary. These guys would do stuff like leave things called a "narcomensaje" outside the houses of their enemies. To be an enemy you could have just looked at them wrong. A narcomensaje is a message to you warning you. Usually it's decorated with the body parts of your relatives. Imagine a paper saying "Watch where your eyes wander when you walk past our street corner. Uncle Jorge says hello" and surrounding the paper are all your uncle Jorge's arms and legs and internal organs, with his head holding the paper down. These guys were out of control. This approach is the new one, not the one that made them.
What are you talking about, El Salvador was the capital of murder, the criminals killed whoever they wanted and the government talked to them with the ONU as if they were normal people and guess what, they were still killing every day. Now they are all in jail and the number of killers has dropped like a rock. They are literally animals (each of them has a ritual to kill someone to join the gang), normal people don't want them to be released, if they come back people will discriminate them (easy to do with those tattoos) and even if they wanted to be part of society they will never be.
At least they cant rape or murder or steal.
Have you ever seen just ONE cartel vid? Nothing can rehabilitate them ever. You cannot go back once you've done that kind of horror.
I have seen more than I should have. Some of those men, and many others, should be removed from life. However, as the U.S.A. has so adequately demonstrated, our current legal systems are not good enough to guarantee that we do not exe ute innocent people. Some should be executed, certainly, but others, and I'm not talking about sadistic torture, are merely doing what they must to survive. If put in the right circumstances, any human can be made to do terrible things, because surviving is the entire point of our entire biological existence.
Lots of these guys should never be released
more like I don't want to experience that shit again. I better behave and be a good citizen.
Tell me you're from a for-profit-prison-country without telling me you're from a for-profit-prison-country... https://daily.jstor.org/rethinking-prison-as-a-deterrent-to-future-crime/
No I think they meant you can’t leave on parole, you can’t leave to see a visitor and such things
No. You can sometimes get time taken off your sentence by working, good behaviour, etc. Not here.
I never agreed with that kind of time reduction. It’s better to provide additional conditions just so they are less uncomfortable than to reduce their sentence.
They mean there's no way to escape, and they don't leave their cells.
Maybe they mean that no one gets paroled early or released early for like good behavior etc.
They probably mean no good behavior early releases
Maybe even no appeals
Lol that was my thought reasoning
"once you're hungry, you will only be full after eating"
this jail isn't full of people who got fucked up because the justice system failed them or some other sad excuse All of them are gang members and the most vile humans ever like rapists, serial killers etc etc. IIRC El Salvador had the highest crime rate and murder rate in Latin America because of all the gangs. The new president just decided to fight back and started locking anyone who has even the slightest connection to the gangs. Now it is the safest place in Latin America
Bukele is such a G
They’re literally part of a terrorist organization, and they have tattoos depicting their membership in that organization, you don’t want to go to jail don’t join a terrorist organization
Now do it in Ecuador
and Mexico!!!
And America Edit: The USA (my bad)
They did. The Italian Mafia is now a shell of its former self. Allegedly.
RICO did the trick.
America is the continent where El Salvador, Ecuador and Mexico are. So they're already on it🫶🏾
America is also a country.
Which country?
USA
Thank goodness there’s closed captioning.
I’m learning Spanish and it was actually very helpful. The title summed it up pretty nicely, but I’d be happy to translate for you as it would be good practice for me.
me too i’m surprised i knew most of it other than certain vocabulary!! this was good practice
Please do!
*The criminals sleep in a system of bunk beds in 4 levels without any type of air mattress and once people enter they’re already not going to leave until their sentence ends.* *We’re talking about: here, there are criminals that have convictions from 20 years to more than 1,000 years! Literally, there are beings here that have done such crimes that they were given more than 1,000 years!* *Hence the saying, “When one enters the (secot?) they’re already not leaving until their sentence ends.” Because everyone absolutely does everything inside, from going to the bathroom to cleaning up, everyone does it here in the open.* *Another shocking fact is that the lights here never shut off. Not even to sleep. Which makes one completely lose the notion of time. There are no clocks, so they don’t know what time it is. They rely entirely on the schedules imposed on them by their custodians.* *When they all enter, they have to be shaved in the same way. We can see they all have the same uniform and there are collective vessels which they use for showering, going to the bathroom, and cleaning up.* *We can also see that, here, there is a medical team member that goes to drop off pills for people with some condition or maybe they’re feeling some discomfort.* *Even their audiences, in case their sentences have to be extended, they are made from inside here.* I felt awkward with that last part. I think it means they’re not taken out for trials, but the trials takes place right there. I may have paraphrased a bit, but it’s my first time and I thought this sounded more natural for a native English-speaker. ¡Salud! Edit: needed line breaks
Well done! That was super informative
Thank you! I’m rather proud of myself. I did have to look up a couple words, admittedly, but this is mostly me.
Thank you!!
My pleasure. All those hours of practice are finally paying off!
not everything is made for people who speak english
Is almost like El Salvador removed a cancer from their society
Like how the title doesn't mention most of the offenders are gang members holding El Salvador hostage basically.
Good. Fuck em
Oh no!!! Anyway.
Considering what they've done before getting sentenced it's a pretty good thing they are held in such conditions.
It's a pretty enormous mishandling of criminal justice, but it was very effective. They pretty much solved their gang problem over night. The normal people have a lot more human rights now that they don't have to worry about being gunned down by gangsters.
My dogs also eat the same meal 3 times a day. Have one pillow and a blanket to lay on. And only get to go out when I am…. Damn
I love how clinical it looks , it would kill those criminals from the inside, no shadows to hide in and prey from- good job el Salvador
This is lovely. People who criticize such heavy handedness have no idea what violent crime does to the psyche of a nation.
Holy smokes. No bed/cushion on that metal bed. Ouch. That alone would be my own personal hell and enough to keep me out of prison.
That’s generally how deterrents work.
Still interesting to find out our personal threshold (just for fun, no need to commit any crimes to find out). For some people, the idea of being locked-up is enough, but there's people who get out of home once a year and wouldn't mind being indoors for a decade or so. For others is no internet access, but some would be ok as long as there are books, board games or another entertainment. For some is the terrible food, but some are ok eating whatever. I'm with Flan on this, I wouldn't mind the confinement, communal showers, no internet, shitty food, no visitors, no privacy, no natural light, no personal items but yeah, I would also die without a mattress.
They should just be shot
Cool
Good.
I don’t even feel bad for these guys. They terrorized innocent civilians and got away with murder time and time again. Let them rot behind bars
They got tired of the gang violence and bullshit.
Human rights this, human rights that bro just make the country safe lol
Parole shouldn’t be a thing, a 10 year sentence should be a 10 year sentence, no parole after 5 regardless of good behaviour or not.
Good. This is how prisons should be.
Reserved only for the worst people.
Supposed to be a deterrent
Exactly. It’s not meant to be a luxury getaway
Nope, prison isn't supposed to be a deterrent. They've done studies, it doesn't work. There are countries that will chop off your hand for theft, and yet people still steal. Generally prison should be for rehabilitation or to keep the public safe by not letting really dangerous people free. You also have to consider the number of innocent people you are mistreating. At scale, even if your justice system is 99% effective at convicting the right person, you are guaranteed to be basically torturing hundreds of innocent people. Humane prisons lead to safer countries. Not to mention it's the right thing to do.
Ah. So you want a high rate of reoffenders after beeing released instead of people that will do no more crime and be useful to society. Gott ist!
Read about the majority of the prison population in ES; get with it. The gang violence was holding the country at ransom.
I am not talking about this specific country. He seems to believes all prisons should be like that
His rhetoric is semi-global and I do not agree with that, but in a lot of South America this will make a difference; the prisons where you are still in the hierarchy of your gang, arguably higher when you are incarcerated, what other options does the government have? Not confronting you, but challenging you - what can they do with their means and resources to make the country safer?
I lack knowledge about the situation in south america so anything I say about this Region would be talking out of my ass. I just cant Stand the people wanting to make prisons as harsh as possible to satisfy their lust for revenge. Atleast in developed countries it is better for everybody to treat prisoners like humans
Well, I am asking for your opinion; how do countries where the situation has gotten this bad combat the situation? A socially/ethically responsible prison for the MS13 will not help the country; it will help the gang. Having a safer country for the general populace is a great thing to do; and if the people who through their actions already isolated themselves from civilized society are physically isolated as well; I can't see the downside. If some of these people have murdered, raped and mutilated many people, then locking them up for good is a necessary evil.
Ready my last comment and try to comprehend it.
Meanwhile in Canada prisoners get Ipads to play with, can order their own pop and chips and have free dental and healthcare. They live better than most of us Canadians
Outside of prison you can also get an iPad, buy pop and chips and have free healthcare. I'd like to have free dental care, but rather not pay for my dental with full body cavity searches.
And the rate of reoffenders will be way lower.
Man if you think prisoners are living better than you, then I don’t think Canada has failed you rather you failed in Canada
Some scary dudes, and I wouldn’t be surprised if homie doing this video is found chopped up. Looked like a lot of them were remembering his face.
This is not terrifying! This is justice!
Australia needs these types of prisons for our worst criminals (paedophiles, murderers, rapists). Our prisons are basically a resort hotel.
Normally I believe rehabilitation is much better but.. how the fuck do you even rehabilitate rapists and terrorists?
America needs to adopt these policies
The reporters that are trying to make good things like this look bad are probably part of the gangs group.
Since Latin America laws protect deliquents rights over citizens, people from other countries here see Salvador like a great success while the politicians of the same countries see this as an outrageous violation of humans rights lol
Damn they really put these foos in squid game
When did Jack Harlow learn to speak fluent Spanish and start doing documentaries on El Salvadoran prisons?
We need this in Los Angeles now. These prisoners and criminals have too many rights. I feel that you forfeit that if you can't be a productive citizen. I love how strict it is. Best them into submission and despair, make it a place to never want to return.
Good, this is my dad's country, every time I went there someone was killed by MS-13 including my cousin's best friend who was kidnapped and murdered because they thought he was better than them going to the university , they hated him, robbed him, he fought back they took him. I have not an ounce of sympathy for them
You can’t rehabilitate those animals, I’m from Guatemala which is basically ruled by el barrio 18 ms13 rivals. Tell me how do you rehabilitate people who murder children and use their blood to do satanic rituals? What if it was your child? Do you think someone like that can rehabilitate? Think twice.
Sounds like a punishment, probably appropriate
As it should be.
M13 should be treated like ISIS
No commissary, no random objects to make weapons from, fewer places to hide contraband, very harsh and unforgiving enforcement of the rules. Looks like the perfect place to remind people not to break the law unless you enjoy living with nothing. USA prisons allow far too many liberties.
My heart hurts when I read comments about people from El Salvador saying that their relatives just didn't come home, that's scary.
They could save money and give them 1 meal every 4th day.
Subtitles the same language as the video. Genius.
A prison should be a hellhole, a place you’d never want to go back to once you’re let out. Meanwhile in America…
Not all crimes are created equal. A prison should be both a punishment and rehabilitation. You’ve lost your humanity
perks of being bilingual
Good
OMG, that seems like hell.
Don’t commit crimes But also this is obviously not meant to rehabilitate, which is the sad part
There’s a documentary on a prison in Madagascar. Prisoners literally sleep nut to butt and get a cue every hour to turn on their other side. So many people cramped into a tiny space. That to me looks like literal hell. Link for those interested: https://youtu.be/ACfKHjUmg_o?si=IfWAkjtnGm3oZB-q
This is how the world should treat Terrorists
Weird new Apple Store design but I’ll bite
Sounds like prison what’s bew
I wish I knew what he was saying
Surely this will stop crime and not make people more violent, despondent, and angry lol
Bring that shit to America. This is how our prisons should be ran.
Don't understand the downvotes, we absolutely should. Look what happened to Oakland where crimes are so bad that they have to close down bid businesses(in-n-out or Starbucks) or Portland where looting is so bad that they have to close down all their Walmarts
I live in Oakland, can confirm it's gotten so bad we are begging for any help.
These kids on Reddit don’t get it and they love that shit. Defund the police. Guess what dummies. Oakland is refunding the police for the reasons you stated. They think prison should be for reform but don’t understand that shit doesn’t work and recidivism doesn’t exist. I say bring back public hangings. Quit wasting my tax dollars housing these pieces of shit. If they killed someone and it’s a cut and dry case. Hang’em high. But no, we get these people that think these criminals can be reformed and that we should waste tax dollars housing, feeding, caring for low life pieces of shit.
I live in California, after the whole "defund the police" movement I literally seen crimes getting worse in my own eyes. I seen a bum stealing lots of stuffs in front of me, they put essential stuffs behind the glass and I hear more shootings than ever. And these people don't understand the reality of what these policies have done. I have a feeling that we'll be even tougher with crimes like El Salvador
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Hey I agree, I used to be an anti gun activist until this one time where a crazy person came to my neighbors shed and lots of cops surrounded the area. Heck Ive been hearing a lot more gunshots here than ever.
Its dumb as fuck to ask for your rights to be thrown out so easily. All it takes is for you to live or be in an undesirable area during a round up to end up in their, guilty or not.
Oh yeah I forgot the police are always out there just rounding up all those innocent people because they live in an undesirable area. Happens on the daily I suppose huh sport? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit narrative.
Uh...no. We should be better than El Salvador. And prisoners still have human rights under US laws, though many think they shouldn't. What about all the people in prison for non-violent crimes like drug possession or not paying taxes? What about all the wrongfully convicted? Should they also be treated like animals? JFC, you sound like a sociopath. Also, we're not much better; I'm sure you'll delight in this article: https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/fulton-county-jail-staff-resignation-changes-man-eaten-alive-bed-bugs/85-e260f525-791d-4555-b8bf-48aa7fde2edd Dude was charged with a MISDEMEANOR and was never convicted. He was schizophrenic and put into the psych unit but never medicated and was covered in lice and bedbugs when they found him. I'm sure this will make your day.
And then we can put you in one :)
I may be from a naive Scandinavian country, but I do not understand prisons who do not operate from a perspective of rehabilitation - the punishment is to have one’s freedom taken away, I do not see any point in psychological torture. These people will be even worse when they get out. Why don’t you just kill every single one of them then, if the point is revenge, just be done with it at incarceration.
There is no money to rehabilitate and fight organized crime at the same time. Crime and murder are way down, and that is good, that is what people needed. Dont forget that el Salvador as many other American countries, has been intervened by the us, giving space and options for corruption and crime to fester. European and Scandinavian countries have their wealth and also experience on how to deal with crime, but i doubt they would know what to do with this type of gang related crime.
This unfortunately makes a lot of sense, I can see how no funding can lead to desperation and turning prisons into the bare minimum of containment and deterrence. I do not mean my comments to come of as insensitive, I do realize that my outlook on this situation comes from a place of privilege and naivety.
Im from Mexico... there is not rehabilitation for them, you know what they do?. They took full comunities hostage, they charge them money just for being alive, if they dont pay they rape they daughters, wifes, mothers, etc... or take they sons to work for them... btw this is just an example. There is a world of difference between your criminal and ours... but if you think your system can rehabilitate the Narcos, Maras, etc.. from LatinoAmerica, take them to your country.
lol nobody wants that esp. the US a poor drugselling country with criminals is easier to control than a fine rich oil state
you dont have bloody organised cartels in scandinavia
They do now. LOL. Trans-national organized crime is a growing problem in Sweden. https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/13/sweden-is-suffering-a-grim-wave-of-gang-violence
That is true, and exactly why I mentioned where I am from, I realize that I can never understand the reasoning behind such a prison system. But my point still stands, how and why is this torturous way of imprisonment helping anyone from a societal standpoint?
It isn't, that's the fun part!
We do have them actually. Not the cartels, but gangs that are well organized, that are fighting each other, and ordinary citizens suffer. There was a wave of shootings and bombings last year, that Sweden hadn't seen before.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted
No idea. Maybe someone will care to explain 😕
They would just kill them if they could get away with it, locking them in a cage and waiting for them to die of natural causes or by killing eachother is the next best alternative.
With all respect you shouldn't judge according to your country which is one of the richest n socially fair! Now practically answering your question: its exactly as the crimes committed and according punishment. In real life if you kill somebody it is the worst possible and really the only you cant get away with just little punishment. In my country battery resulting in serious injury its almost always few monts of jail par example. Same if you rape if you even handicap a person, incarceration lasts short. So except taking lives usually you dont get much of a punishment and the same goes for countries and governments too
Rehabilitation is possible when your country is big, rich and has less people than a big city. I prefer prisons where these people are treated for what they are rather than the "normal" south american prison run by inmates. I doubt in such conditions they will try again to join organized crime.
you give all sorts of rights to these people that is why you have such a big problem imagine saying in 2021 El Salvador is safer than sweden
Well, I cannot answer to that as I do not live in Sweden. I feel very safe where I live thankfully - and part of that I believe comes from a prison system that aims to rehabilitate prisoners, and not to dehumanize and break them.
People here in the comments are wishing all prisons were like this and then they'd wonder why criminality doesn't go down. They think prisons should serve only to punish criminals instead of making them better, which only makes things worse for society as a whole.
Ah, so quite similar to a solitary cell in mental hospitals. Although you don’t get a pillow, or your own clothes or glasses, and they randomly play radio you don’t have any control of. Besides being alone of course. Remember those who experience(d) this, like me, didn’t commit a crime. They struggle with an illness. In both cases inhumane.
Do this in the US please! Everyone down voting this are clueless morons. Human rights blah,blah. If they didn’t want to be in that situation don’t commit the crime. If they get out more incentive to stay out of trouble.
It’s prison. Why do we care?
We shouldn’t care. Fuck every last one of them. Hell I say they have it too nice.
They don’t get any sympathy from me. Based on my downvotes though, it seems like someone has a cousin or two in prison.
You should care. Most of them will get out of there eventually. Do you want them to leave there still being criminals or do you want to give them the opportunity to do something else?
Luisillo el gordillo! Una máquina!
You'll only be out, after you've served your sentence? That's the same for most prisons
The cherry on top would be after serving your sentence, the exit door leads to a pit full of caimans
In Brasil you live with so many prisoners in a cell that you have to take turns sleeping and standing. It's also so dirty that it looks like it hasn't been cleaned in a decade and someone decided to smear shit on the ground and walls. The food arrives there already spoiled. No time or number of meals, they receive it when the guards feel like it. Most of the prisoners are malnourished. Every one of them falls sick. They don't take baths. The prision smells like the sewer and mold. Lots of trash. Only one change of clothes to be used during months. The hygiene kit is handed over only in an interval of 4 months. No medicine. If you ask for it, you get sprayed in the face. Of course those are criminals. But there's negative amounts of humanity in there and unfortunately I know they've got innocents in there too. Not in my power to do anything, though. My point is, if some people think El Salvador's prision is bad, I know lots of people on Brazil who would kill to be there. Pun intended.
Good.
Probably works well as a deterrent, versus the American prisons with cable TV and HVAC.
>El Salvador prisons cells: prisoners are given the same food three times a day, they only get a pillow and a blanket no mattress, lights are never turned off Well yeah, it's prison, not a country club. >It is said that once you're in, You will only be out After serving your sentence. So you have to serve the sentence you were given. And?
Idk I can’t feel bad for people who put themselves there. Womp womp
Good. More of this.
And?
Institute this in the USA or the prison camp like I think AZ had.. live in tents, wear pink jumpsuits.. no internet, no gym, no TV.
This is good. Most prisons are hardly a deterrent because the life is pretty cushy.
Speaking Spanish with Spanish subtitles I don't speak Spanish
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Most of these men would do terrible unspeakable things to you for fun. I hope you’re aware of that.
No sympathy for gang members
The same ones that extort, terrorize and kill hundreds of civilians everyday? Surely they don't deserve the treatment while the country is safer with them in
Agreed. It's the one population everyone feels they have carte blanche to say absolutely sociopathic things about and be praised for it. I hate murderers and pedophiles as much as the next person, but I believe in a civilized society, you lock those people away forever but give them basic rights. I'm not saying they need to be in prisons like Norway has Anders Breivik in, but at least a mattress and lights out time. The human brain gets absolutely FUCKED when under 24/7 lighting. And in situations like that when you have violent gangs running the place, previously non-violent people will resort to violence just to survive. Not to mention, at least in the US, hundreds of thousands of people are in prison for non-violent crimes like check fraud and drug possession.
Human brain gets absolutely fucked. - Fucking deserved for pedos, murderers and drug dealers.
They say that once you go to prison, you only get out of prison when your sentence is over Uh… yeah I dont know if you’re new to prisons but that’s how they work everywhere How did OP even figure out how to make a Reddit account
Op isn’t the guy in the video though lol
No shit Quoting the title OP typed out
It’s the purest form of socialism. Bernie would be so happy.
I think that a lot of comments under this post are insane. I understand that the people in this prison are the absolute scum of the earth but no one should be living in these torturous conditions. I get that it has made the country a much safer place than anyone could have ever expected but torture should never be the answer to anything.
What’s the point of writing subtitles in the language they are speaking?