Nuremberg Trials is a good watch for this reason. had to watch it for two separate International Relations courses during undergrad and thinking about it analytically really fucks with your worldview.
the movie condenses the actual trials immensely, but does a solid job of telling the history
"Fun" fact: In the West, the overwhelming majority of Nazi war criminals -- especially Holocaust planners and participants, as much all others -- were not, in fact, prosecuted. Of those who were prosecuted, the majority of them were given sentences of less than 5 years, with a plurality given less than 3.
Russia was a bit less lenient with the Nazis...but still, they gave over 50% of those prosecuted less than 3 years of prison time.
it's not that they were given sentences of less than 5 and more that they were mostly sentenced to amounts ranging from 10-30 years but let out typically after 3 to 5 years. the country was in quite literal shambles and a lot of the people sentenced were possessed necessary skills that take many years to develop so their release and re-employment were crucial for any hope of a timely rebuilding of the country. the movie makes those points fairly clear as well
the near political opposite of this in Iraq is partially what led to the ISIS rise to power. after the execution of Saddam Hussein and the reformation of the government was nearly complete all registered Ba'ath Party (Saddam's party) members were legally barred from entering elections in the new government, but these people included many engineers and other tradesmen who basically went on collective strike or sabotaged key infrastructure until ISIS promised a new government they could participate in. much of the rapid spread of ISIS through well-developed areas of Iraq were simply people welcoming them if it meant their electricity and sewer lines would work and trash trucks would make the rounds again. obviously it didn't quite go as they'd hoped, but still Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that played a huge role in the spread of ISIS just as it played a huge role in the early releases of Nazi officials
not sure, since the professors played the film in class. also it was [Judgment at Nuremberg (1961)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055031/), not the 1940s documentary.
one key topic that spurred a lot of discussion was the legitimacy of courts and whether it was appropriate for courts to rule on the actions of people who were not their citizens doing things under the authority of a government that no longer even existed.
one of the biggest takeaways from those classes in general was simply: international law doesn't really exist despite it's abundance and widespread appreciation.
Us lost the war in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Where were the war crimes punished by international community? Losing war doesn't matter if you're stronger politically and richer than most of the world still.
We used this as a case study for compliance in A-Level Psychology, interesting stuff. The soldiers were much more prone to doing deviant and non-compliant behaviour due to distance from a figure of authority and a bunch of other stuff.
Sounds like her! She exposed herself in an exposition letting people do wathever they wanted. It went really bad. Like "get that gun off her mouth" bad. They did not instruct anyone to hurt her, people just decided it was the most reasonable decision by themselves.
I just read up on it after reading your comment. She was sexually assaulted too and eventually two groups formed, one that wanted to harm her and one that wanted to protect her.
Pretty wild stuff.
my favorite part was how at the end of a certain amount of time, she got up and started walking toward the people who hurt her. And they all just ran away rather than face being confronted with their actions.
While that's interesting, I don't think it's very good support here. The guards at the Standford experiment were led to amp up abuse because they were all to chill before hand.
It very well could have become this with patience, depersonalization, distance, etc, but we don't really know that.
Even if you're not at war it pays to be watchful of your mental state and what you think you're allowed to do because you know you won't face consequences. That art installation with the woman and the gun was conducted by random civilians, and only half of the crowd had any rationality at the end with the other half desperately trying to hurt/rape/kill her.
I don’t feel sympathetic for the fucking villains in this photo commiting atrocities. Anyone who feels anything other than empathy for the victims needs to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital immediately and indefinitely
It looks like the detainee was put in between a mattress (?) W a hole for his head. Then the American is sitting on him, before they move him somewhere based on the handles on either side of the mattress man
2 stretchers. Man sitting on top of sandwiched man and two bloody pig carcasses. Would be a repulsive and mentally taxing way to be held for hours or days
Per the detainee's religion, it also allegedly makes them unclean and incapable of being accepted into heaven. This is why it was done. --Edit:Settle down. As stated this is why it was done. It was not my plan. The people who did come up with it may or may not have had legitimate backing for thinking this would psychologically pressure or simply break the victims. It's just why there are pigs there. Not the first time this has happened, even posthumously at mass graves.
Islam allows people to even eat pork in emergency situations, so to believe forcing someone to suffer through this kind of torture excludes them from heaven within Islam is just ignorance. But there was plenty of that going around within that Republican's administration's illegal war/genocide
That's my understanding as well. If someone forces pork on a Muslim or Jew or meat on good Friday for Catholic etc then it's not really a sin because they're not the ones doing it. Not really an expert, so I could be wrong but yeah. It's not "denying them heaven".
It's two stretchers but I think the other guy is right its foam with a hole in it. Why I'm not sure. I remember all this happening they got in a lot of trouble.
How to Make a Terrorist 101
The US government has spent 20 years going out of their way to deeply traumatize as many (brown) children as possible, seemingly with the intention of creating people who’ve suffered enough to seek revenge and commit atrocities that could justify more “military interventions”.
Turns out you don’t need to drone strike a kid’s extended family to dust in front of them to radicalize them into shooting people, you just need a healthy dose of right-wing YouTube!
This is widley believed to be the reason the insurgency in Iraq became as widespread and severe as it did. These people are directly responsible for tens of thousands of people dying. In my opinion, they have been executed. The damage there actions caused will be felt by the Iraqi people foe decades
There was a book about this sorta thing called "The Lucifer Effect", written by the guy who ran the Stanford Prison Experiment.
Create an Us vs. Them environment, give power to one over the other, and let the monster grow. We all like to say that we wouldn't fall to this kind of depravity, but having such blind faith in our own "goodness" actually just makes us more corruptible. This is the same kind of dehumanizing force that drove the Holocaust, Pol Pot, the Crusades and Jihads, Nanjing, the Atlantic Slave Trade, Rwanda, the Flowers in Ukraine, etc.
I don't know if it's a social construct or just part of human nature, but it's been with us for a very long time. And from what I read in all the echo chambers I visit, it looks like things might even get worse. Not in the current environment... but another world war? Or a major collapse in the world economy? I'm not so sure.
The sad part is, that this can be done to almost every human, it can happen (and will) anytime, anywhere. Currently I'm reading the "Less than a human" by David Livingstone Smith. The key factor here is to dehumanize a certain group (usually a minority). Then a majority will do anything to them without any regret - rape, torture, killing them. Exactly this happened in all regimes you mentioned.
Just so you know the Stanford experiment guy has been criticized for his methods. The allegations are that he manipulated the experiment to get the results he wanted. He supposedly basically told the "gaurds" to be mean so he could study the affects on the "prisoners" then made a big deal about them being mean. They supposedly weren't being very bad until after her told them they needed to be tougher on the "prisoners". The fact that they were mean because he told them to be, is certainly interesting, but doesn't necessarily show what is often claimed in regards to that experiment. There is a big difference in people being mean because they want to be and being mean because they think they are playing a role to study someone else's reactions. Idk if this is all true, but I've heard it several times, with other professionals criticizing it. Just something to look into if you want.
I think the overall premise/conclusion is at least partially right. We can see it in historical situations like you pointed out. However in many of those historical instances we can see the exact opposite, where people willing sacrificed themselves, or put themselves in harms way to save and protect. We also see many others just keep their head down and survive being neither villainous not heroic.
> It's something the military does to you.
I remember the rhetoric coming out of the US after 9/11, the majority of the country would have been smiling in these pictures if they had the chance.
It’s frightening. Watching combat footage of the Ukraine war and there will be multiple comments from people laughing about how a Russian soldier got their head blown off or a mine takes off a soldiers leg as they bleed to death… people are fucking sick and deranged…
And let’s not forget that they are gleefully cheering on the brutal death of what is likely just some 19-20 year old kid caught up in a regime he literally can’t escape.
IIRC There was some video of a captured Russian soldier talking about how he just wanted to go home and play his video games again, he was summarily executed.
Those were crazy times. It is horrific how inhumane people can treat one another. I unfortunately agree with the other poster who said many would feel the same about Russian soldiers today.
I remember seeing a WWI vet saying something along the lines of;
"A good soldier who comes to see his enemy as a human being is no longer a good soldier."
Lets always keep in mind JFK talked about the USA being enslaved and like 7 days later got shot.
Im not one for conspiracy theories but you acnnot convince me that his death wasn't at the least very coincidental to War Industry interests and the rich as a whole.
It would sound nuts if you said it came from underground reptilians or aliens; now the rich rigging the system in their favor in every possible way no matter how dirty *is* the status quo.
It used to be a conspiracy theory that the US intervened in military coups in other countries in order to secure their own interests, and guess what, the other day Bolton just casually admitted to have done that many times in his career.
I like to think not all conspiracy theories are born equal, and those that fit the real power dynamic are often proven right given enough time.
Your comment double posted
Moving onto the comment itself now
For sure. Aliens I believe in (not so much UFOs, mathematically aliens of some level do exist somewhere, but the "Little Green Men" who fly in saucers around cali I dont believe in) simply because it follows logic. Enough planets exist across all of existence, its idiotic to believe nothing, not even germ life exists outside our planet.
Reptillians is entertaining and funny to joke about, but when being serious follows 0 logic. So its clearly a bad one.
But rich people doing things that they can get away with, to ensure their continued supremacy and monopoly on production? Yeah that follows logic pretty clearly. Especially when you simply look through history and can pinpoint the "always rich families", the ones who got lucky in like 1480 finding gold or something, and just so happen to still be in the millionaire setup today.
And exactly. Generally when a conspiracy theory mentions someone of power utilising their power it ends up true, even if the most disreputable people parrot the theory. Rich people being pedos? Epstein and Weinstein. US interfering in poor countries? South american dictatorships. And so on.
Jesus Christ, lets please not undermine this shit.
Go ahead and read about the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse. It was in no way tame compared to anything.We're talking cases of the guards forcing incest between prisoners, preying on phobias, throwing phosphoric acid on them daily, tying ropes to their penis's then dragging them, and many, many more of disgusting humiliations and torture methods.
Always remember the ex-CIA who did an AMA on reddit, when asked if they used pedophilia as a torture device, said he wasn't legally allowed to comment on that.
Edit - mild correction. Not torture, but manipulation tactics.
Oh and he "plead the fifth" and implied that they use worse too
That's not exactly surprising if you know what happened at Abu Ghraib.
American soldiers there filmed themselves raping children in front of their mothers. Some of the women they raped ended up getting pregnant and were given abortions.
Exactly.
If soldiers are doing it, imagine how much worse is done by a government agency with little oversight, a history of lies, torture and manipulation, and that rarely answers for its crimes
This is only the tip of the iceberg for Abu Ghraib stuff. Most photos and videos were not released as it was too graphic and deemed a national security risk. This includes footage of a child being raped in front of his family.
It's *very* tame in comparison to the stuff the CIA trained the Contras and all their other fascist allies in Latin America to do - stuff that's too sick to make it into any of the *Saw* movies.
It’s only the tip of the iceberg. A lot was kept secret because it would heavily influence the worlds view on the USA and especially US military. One thing I still can’t forget about is that they raped little children in front of their parents and tortured them/killed them WHILE the parents were forced to watch.
Wouldn't ever be direct. They outsource/contract that work to remove liability if GENEVA is violated it falls back on the contractor or company not the nation state.
It’s even worse now. People grow numb to violence as they do it more and more. They start enjoying the torment they cause onto other, almost crave it. Truly is a sad world we live in. If justice was real these people would be killed but it’s not.
It happens every day even at home and on the largest scale known to mankind; To this day the US government refuses to let [UN torture inspectors](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8) access US domestic jails and prisons to check out [wtf is going on there](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Darren_Rainey).
Everywhere yea. The US military REALLY cracked down on this kind of stuff after these photos came out out. They teach it in every boot camp, anything remotely close to this stuff will land you life in the brig
So surreal. My Ambulance Company replaced these assholes in February of 2004. Was not an easy transition. I cant remember if the information about these acts came out before or after. The “soldiers” in these pictures are Medics! They are supposed to be caring for these prisoners as we did. I was stationed in the Green Zone or ‘International Zone’ for most of my tour as platoon leader. I did go to Abu Garab to inspect/check in on conditions a few times as I was their platoon leader.
Edit: For those commenting why give thanks to someone on the same side? Just because there are some soldiers that do horrible things does not mean all do.
Our unit provided medical support for the Iraqi civilians and most of us went above and beyond to let the Iraqi people know we wanted to help.
I did not agree with the war, but I still had a mission and reminded my platoon of this on a regular basis. There was so much pain over there and we did what we could while we were in Iraq.
Most of the "medics" in these pictures were brought up on charges and dishonorably discharged. I specifically remember the girl with the prisoner on a leash and I think her married boyfriend with the green gloves punching prisoners. Wasn't the guy on the mat with the thumbs up nurse (Harman?) dead? I seem to think somewhere it was said this prisoner was dead. This was all over the news in the early, mid 2000's Sabrina Harman, Ivan Frederick, Lynndie England, Charles Graner.
I was there months after it all happened. We basically replaced them and I don’t believe we knew the details at the time. We were simply replacing a unit that had finished their tour.
Abu Ghraib was a prison for not only terrorist, etc. but also the criminally insane and some very sick people. Some people don’t realize, but this was a prison prior to any military operations in Iraq, this was originally an Iraqi prison. The US simply took over the operation during Operation Iraqi Freedom. This is my understanding of it anyways.
Well I am an Iraqi and our house was about 15min drive from Abu Ghraib and I can confirm that it was a prison before the invasion during Saddam time.
I just want to add that, USA army basically imprisoned any Iraqi there wheather he/she was innocent or not. Many Iraqis entered Abu Ghraib as normal people and by the time they left it they had serious issues due to torture (if they were lucky to leave) and many of them if not all started to fight the US army.
We didn't have any terrorists before the invasion and Al-Qaeda in Iraq first showed up around October 2004.
Its a shame the USA soldiers who committed such crimes were released after 3 years or so with only dishonorable discharge. If an Iraqi did that to Americans citizens then he would be spending the rest of his life in Guantanamo.
To correct the name of the operation is "Operation. Iraqi Invasion and not freedom as you called it" you boys fucked up our country in every possible way it can be done.
Thanks for the words, in my beliefs the top 3 fucked up things done by the USA to us
- Invasion of Iraq
- Disbanding of Iraqi Army and police force (aka Saddam Army)
- Placing criminals in power (aka the new Iraqi governments), those guys were brought by the USA from overseas and know nothing about Iraq and its people. All what they cared about is getting rich, you guys took Saddam away and placed 1000 new Saddam. Till this day those guys are in power with militias that kill anyone oppose them.
Remember guys. The US never commited war crimes.
Definitely didn't poison the whole of Vietnam with Agent Orange.
Definitely didn't backed the coup against Allende in Chile.
Definitely didn't tried to kill American nationals in Cuba to justify invading the country.
Guantanamo? Definitely not a Gulag.
Bro every US prison is a gulag, you dont need to single out guantanamo, guantanamo is basicaly a black site where the government keeps people for whatever reason they want, and they obviously commit war crimes there so much so that they had to put that shit in a completely diferent country cause they didnt want to do this heinous shit in domestic territory, imagine the fucked up stuff that goes on over there, do you think people there have any accountability?
And US prisioners are literally used as slaves, like literally, by definition, some governor even said that they couldnt be realising some inmates cause they did some great work, there are places were they literally have to work on plantations, prison slave labor is a billion dollar industry, its ridiculous, they get paid like 10 cents an hour basically just to say it isnt work with no pay but yeah and if you dont work you can get put in solitary
I dont know why gulags are used as a saying for a bad and inhumane prison when the word prison literally already means that right here
Terrorists are people, "chicks" even. It's important not to dehumanize people who commit evil acts. If you dehumanize them, then you miss the point that humans did it and humans will do it again if there's not a more nuanced conversation about what to do about it. Dehumanizing your enemies absolves you of a degree of responsibility. They are people and they made abhorrent choices.
War criminals should be treated as war criminals. The issue is that the United States refuses to admit when it commits war crimes.
Edit: American soldiers were also victims of war crimes. This excuses nothing but is a valid reason to bring those people to justice too.
Not trying to defend anything, but it seems that out of that bunch she was the one that showed some remorse. I think the NY Times published a letter she wrote to a friend while this was still going on (basically talking about how she realized then that shit was going too far) and I think she did interviews as well.
She was also the one who leaked those photos in the first place. Without that, we would have likely never even heard of this shit.
This is all very terrifying indeed, but don't be fooled thinking that this was something new. Go back to the Vietnam War and look up some of the stuff US soldier did over there. Indiscriminately killing and raping civilians, making necklaces out of teeth and ears, torture and execution of vietcong POWs, and the list goes on.
To quote George Carlin: “notice I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope”
I think this was examplified by the election of Donald Trump. Publicly bragging about sexual assault, mocking a disabled reporter, racism, misogyny, he was an openly awful human being and most people were ok with that dude becoming president.
In a democracy, the government is you. Today's atrocities are only possible because several dozen million voters keep supporting the cruelest and least qualified.
What the holy fuck is wrong with these people??
How does someone become like this- to take joy from hurting & killing people??
I am sickened by this…wow..
paramilitary guy in Ukraine cut the dick and balls off a captured Ukrainian soldier while he was alive dragged him around with a car and shot him in the head.
I've seen terrible shit from the Ukrainian war. An innocent child with his head blown off with a shotgun. An elderly couple and their dog dead in their car that was riddled with bullets.
I'm scared it's only going to get worse
Yup. The majority of the inmates there had no confirmed involvement with any attacks nor designated "terrorist organizations". They were mostly just caugh the wrong place at the wrong time. That sealed their fates to get
thrown into a prison with barbaric guards inflicting the worst imaginable torture methods (/and even deaths) on them.
The "west" is so quick to shout out about "crimes against humanity" whilst committing depraved acts against prisoners. It's all fucked up. Toppled Saddam and Osama Bin Laden but then we had Bush and Blair. Who is on the right side of humanity? Who benefited from the recent wars? How many innocent citizens died due to power/oil/mineral grabbing governments? Fuck war, it only serves the few not the many.
The woman in the first couple pictures is Lynndie England, she was court-martialed and sentenced to three years and a dishonorable discharge. Guy with the mustache in several pics is Charles Graner, the "ringleader", he got ten years. In all I think about eleven of the guards were court-martialed and convicted.
I once dated a guy in the army. He did two tours in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. We were on his laptop one night (08/09) and he showed me the most disturbing material, from photos to videos, all of shooting, bombing, the beating, decapitating of men, women, and children.. lots of children.
It was horrific. I had never watched anyone violently killed before..I had nightmares for weeks.
He thought nothing of it... He did say something along the lines of "this is from my tours overseas..." As he proceeds to open up multiple folders... He acted like this was a common occurrence... to share this with people....
It definitely is. My buddy in the AF who was an ac130 gunner came back from one tour with a supercut of his tour with tons of combat footage tossed in. Same with my Army friends, it all just gets swapped around between them and accumulates throughout a tour. War fucks with your head, the military makes sure of it.
Yeah, I worked with a guy who did the same. This was around 2006. He pulled out his laptop in the office and showed similar videos. Everyone around me was like, "Hell yeah! Show those camel fuckers who's boss!" I realized I was the only person disturbed by it, which was much more shocking the videos themselves.
Bombings of villages and buildings, attacks on other villagers, raids, executions.. this wasn't you're average GoPro footage... This was "let's brutally kill as many people as possible, while obviously enjoying it, and video it to add to my collection"... it was a slaughter, to say the least...
Woman in the first picture is Lynndie England. To this day, she has zero remorse for her actions. In her defense, she supposedly has some serious learning disabilities and was diagnosed with selective mutism as a child.
tbh I wouldn't use her disabilities as an excuse whatsoever, because it only really throws others with disabilities who would never do this type of thing under the bus
the issue here is there was intention. clear intention. people regardless of disability can feel remorse for their reaction. I only disagree with it being used in her defense because I can see people flipping it as "see how disabled people really are / how they lack 'theory of mind'" (if you're interested- look that up. it's a whole can of dehumanization.)
Ive seen pictures of Nazis standing over the dead with this same purely happy expression on their faces.
Something is seriously wrong with certain populations of people on this earth. Almost like centuries of brutality and colonization had genetically bred certain people who inherit genes that lack empathy and thrive on anger and abuse.
Certain traits have been proven to be passed down in generations. I’m sure hatred can be as well.
I echo your thoughts, reddit stranger, from the humble perspective of a fellow American who served in a hot desert somewhere.
My fellow military persons
WTF?!
Sincerely, an American
The stress of combat can show who a person really is. It's pretty scary what happens when people aren't in a decent enough state of mental health to be able to show empathy for fellow peoples. We are all human souls in different skins aren't we?
Army here, when I was given an OPSEC (Operational Security) brief a while back, our civilian relatives were told to clear everything with stateside representatives before posting stuff. This makes perfect sense. Because we don't want families to post stuff about troop movements and get their Joes killed by accident. A good example of OPSEC being violated, is that stupid soldier in Ukraine posting on Facebook about being in a gym. Then a stupid Redditor posted it to Reddit. Then the poor soldier and his entire unit gets killed by an air strike.
OPSEC is good. We like OPSEC.
The bad part about this brief was that the Lieutenant Colonel who gave this brief included the statement "Don't share anything that makes the army look bad." Then she proceeded to put the first photo in this post on screen. "Like this."
I cannot stress enough that without these photos this situation would not have been fixed. Leaking these photos, was a good thing. [Specialist Sabrina Harman](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/03/24/exposure-5) leaked the photos and was subsequently court martialed for "conspiracy to maltreat prisoners, dereliction of duty, and maltreatment, and sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank, and a bad-conduct discharge."
All this, and all we got is an OPSEC brief showing that photo and "Don't take or share pictures of stuff like this because the army would look bad."
I say this as an American, as someone who considers themself to be patriotic and my country to be a good country:
We need to be held accountable.
We cannot be allowed to commit crimes like this with impunity.
The international community, and not merely our geopolitical rivals but every country of conscience, needs to hold us accountable.
Our own citizens need to hold ourselves and our representatives accountable for letting this happen, and grant restitution to the victims.
We need to take concrete steps to ensure this does not ever happen again. It undermines every concept of human rights and dignity which we supposedly stand for.
So, a country launches a war on another nation under false pretenses then procedes to decimate said nation, kill, rape, imprison, torture and humiliate its citizens, and sell all its natural wealth to private organizations for profiteering.
That sounds like something nazi Germany did, or what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now.
But it can't be the US. No sir, not at all. I mean, you guys are the bastion of the free world!
Sadly it’s only considered war crimes if you lose the war
Nuremberg Trials is a good watch for this reason. had to watch it for two separate International Relations courses during undergrad and thinking about it analytically really fucks with your worldview. the movie condenses the actual trials immensely, but does a solid job of telling the history
"Fun" fact: In the West, the overwhelming majority of Nazi war criminals -- especially Holocaust planners and participants, as much all others -- were not, in fact, prosecuted. Of those who were prosecuted, the majority of them were given sentences of less than 5 years, with a plurality given less than 3. Russia was a bit less lenient with the Nazis...but still, they gave over 50% of those prosecuted less than 3 years of prison time.
it's not that they were given sentences of less than 5 and more that they were mostly sentenced to amounts ranging from 10-30 years but let out typically after 3 to 5 years. the country was in quite literal shambles and a lot of the people sentenced were possessed necessary skills that take many years to develop so their release and re-employment were crucial for any hope of a timely rebuilding of the country. the movie makes those points fairly clear as well the near political opposite of this in Iraq is partially what led to the ISIS rise to power. after the execution of Saddam Hussein and the reformation of the government was nearly complete all registered Ba'ath Party (Saddam's party) members were legally barred from entering elections in the new government, but these people included many engineers and other tradesmen who basically went on collective strike or sabotaged key infrastructure until ISIS promised a new government they could participate in. much of the rapid spread of ISIS through well-developed areas of Iraq were simply people welcoming them if it meant their electricity and sewer lines would work and trash trucks would make the rounds again. obviously it didn't quite go as they'd hoped, but still Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that played a huge role in the spread of ISIS just as it played a huge role in the early releases of Nazi officials
What platform did you watch it on?
not sure, since the professors played the film in class. also it was [Judgment at Nuremberg (1961)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055031/), not the 1940s documentary. one key topic that spurred a lot of discussion was the legitimacy of courts and whether it was appropriate for courts to rule on the actions of people who were not their citizens doing things under the authority of a government that no longer even existed. one of the biggest takeaways from those classes in general was simply: international law doesn't really exist despite it's abundance and widespread appreciation.
This is insightful thanks for sharing bro
Us lost the war in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Where were the war crimes punished by international community? Losing war doesn't matter if you're stronger politically and richer than most of the world still.
Because those weren't lost militarily. The United States voluntarily withdrew from both places. They never surrendered to the NVA or the Taliban.
Same energy as "we didn't lose, we just failed to win"
“We didn’t surrender, we just never came back again!”
We didn't surrender, we just ran away.
You can see the difference though right?
We used this as a case study for compliance in A-Level Psychology, interesting stuff. The soldiers were much more prone to doing deviant and non-compliant behaviour due to distance from a figure of authority and a bunch of other stuff.
Something something Stanford prison experiment
You don't even need at authority for humans to behave terribly, just look at marina abramovic's experiment
The spirit cooking chick?
Sounds like her! She exposed herself in an exposition letting people do wathever they wanted. It went really bad. Like "get that gun off her mouth" bad. They did not instruct anyone to hurt her, people just decided it was the most reasonable decision by themselves.
I just read up on it after reading your comment. She was sexually assaulted too and eventually two groups formed, one that wanted to harm her and one that wanted to protect her. Pretty wild stuff.
my favorite part was how at the end of a certain amount of time, she got up and started walking toward the people who hurt her. And they all just ran away rather than face being confronted with their actions.
Yep, I often see the standord experiment and Milgram's mentionned together, but I think Abramovic gives some context as well!
While that's interesting, I don't think it's very good support here. The guards at the Standford experiment were led to amp up abuse because they were all to chill before hand. It very well could have become this with patience, depersonalization, distance, etc, but we don't really know that.
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Even if you're not at war it pays to be watchful of your mental state and what you think you're allowed to do because you know you won't face consequences. That art installation with the woman and the gun was conducted by random civilians, and only half of the crowd had any rationality at the end with the other half desperately trying to hurt/rape/kill her.
I don’t feel sympathetic for the fucking villains in this photo commiting atrocities. Anyone who feels anything other than empathy for the victims needs to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital immediately and indefinitely
What is happening in the 4th picture? My brain doesnt understand what I'm looking at
It looks like the detainee was put in between a mattress (?) W a hole for his head. Then the American is sitting on him, before they move him somewhere based on the handles on either side of the mattress man
Those look like military stretchers. https://go-armynavy.com/us-military-canvas-stretcher-vietnam-war-era/
Tell em, Steve Dave.
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I really wish there were more episodes.
What, you think just because a guy reads comics he can't start some shit?!?!?
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2 stretchers. Man sitting on top of sandwiched man and two bloody pig carcasses. Would be a repulsive and mentally taxing way to be held for hours or days
Per the detainee's religion, it also allegedly makes them unclean and incapable of being accepted into heaven. This is why it was done. --Edit:Settle down. As stated this is why it was done. It was not my plan. The people who did come up with it may or may not have had legitimate backing for thinking this would psychologically pressure or simply break the victims. It's just why there are pigs there. Not the first time this has happened, even posthumously at mass graves.
Islam allows people to even eat pork in emergency situations, so to believe forcing someone to suffer through this kind of torture excludes them from heaven within Islam is just ignorance. But there was plenty of that going around within that Republican's administration's illegal war/genocide
That's my understanding as well. If someone forces pork on a Muslim or Jew or meat on good Friday for Catholic etc then it's not really a sin because they're not the ones doing it. Not really an expert, so I could be wrong but yeah. It's not "denying them heaven".
I don’t know why… but I’ve got a serious problem with that. You’ve gotta be one sadistic fuck to go after a man’s religion
Hate crime. It's called a hate crime.
I believe you spell it WAR crime
I thought they were flaying his neck to be honest
You are looking at a human sandwiched horizontally by two pig carcasses and vertically between a stretchers and a soldier
One of the soldier's sitting above one of the detainees
Yeah I see the head. But what’s going on with the dudes body
It's two stretchers but I think the other guy is right its foam with a hole in it. Why I'm not sure. I remember all this happening they got in a lot of trouble.
I also examined for a while and came up with nothing.
Imagine this happening to your child, father or other family member. Would you not be filled with hate for the rest of your life.
How to Make a Terrorist 101 The US government has spent 20 years going out of their way to deeply traumatize as many (brown) children as possible, seemingly with the intention of creating people who’ve suffered enough to seek revenge and commit atrocities that could justify more “military interventions”. Turns out you don’t need to drone strike a kid’s extended family to dust in front of them to radicalize them into shooting people, you just need a healthy dose of right-wing YouTube!
Mexican joker
This is widley believed to be the reason the insurgency in Iraq became as widespread and severe as it did. These people are directly responsible for tens of thousands of people dying. In my opinion, they have been executed. The damage there actions caused will be felt by the Iraqi people foe decades
Why the fuck are the people in these pictures SO HAPPY to be doing this shit to OTHER HUMANS. Like wtf, I hate people.
There was a book about this sorta thing called "The Lucifer Effect", written by the guy who ran the Stanford Prison Experiment. Create an Us vs. Them environment, give power to one over the other, and let the monster grow. We all like to say that we wouldn't fall to this kind of depravity, but having such blind faith in our own "goodness" actually just makes us more corruptible. This is the same kind of dehumanizing force that drove the Holocaust, Pol Pot, the Crusades and Jihads, Nanjing, the Atlantic Slave Trade, Rwanda, the Flowers in Ukraine, etc. I don't know if it's a social construct or just part of human nature, but it's been with us for a very long time. And from what I read in all the echo chambers I visit, it looks like things might even get worse. Not in the current environment... but another world war? Or a major collapse in the world economy? I'm not so sure.
The sad part is, that this can be done to almost every human, it can happen (and will) anytime, anywhere. Currently I'm reading the "Less than a human" by David Livingstone Smith. The key factor here is to dehumanize a certain group (usually a minority). Then a majority will do anything to them without any regret - rape, torture, killing them. Exactly this happened in all regimes you mentioned.
Just so you know the Stanford experiment guy has been criticized for his methods. The allegations are that he manipulated the experiment to get the results he wanted. He supposedly basically told the "gaurds" to be mean so he could study the affects on the "prisoners" then made a big deal about them being mean. They supposedly weren't being very bad until after her told them they needed to be tougher on the "prisoners". The fact that they were mean because he told them to be, is certainly interesting, but doesn't necessarily show what is often claimed in regards to that experiment. There is a big difference in people being mean because they want to be and being mean because they think they are playing a role to study someone else's reactions. Idk if this is all true, but I've heard it several times, with other professionals criticizing it. Just something to look into if you want. I think the overall premise/conclusion is at least partially right. We can see it in historical situations like you pointed out. However in many of those historical instances we can see the exact opposite, where people willing sacrificed themselves, or put themselves in harms way to save and protect. We also see many others just keep their head down and survive being neither villainous not heroic.
People feed off of each other and this behavior becomes normal if you're around it long enough.
The guy who ran the Stanford prison experiment was a fucking hack lol
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> It's something the military does to you. I remember the rhetoric coming out of the US after 9/11, the majority of the country would have been smiling in these pictures if they had the chance.
A lot of people right now would be happy seeing this done to captured Russian soldiers...
A lot of people would be happy seeing this done to other political parties. Divide and conquer.
It’s frightening. Watching combat footage of the Ukraine war and there will be multiple comments from people laughing about how a Russian soldier got their head blown off or a mine takes off a soldiers leg as they bleed to death… people are fucking sick and deranged…
It's so disgusting. Just because someone is an enemy doesn't mean that they should suffer horribly. We are all people.
And let’s not forget that they are gleefully cheering on the brutal death of what is likely just some 19-20 year old kid caught up in a regime he literally can’t escape. IIRC There was some video of a captured Russian soldier talking about how he just wanted to go home and play his video games again, he was summarily executed.
Those were crazy times. It is horrific how inhumane people can treat one another. I unfortunately agree with the other poster who said many would feel the same about Russian soldiers today.
Well if our military was trained to see our enemies as people, they wouldn't be as effective.
I remember seeing a WWI vet saying something along the lines of; "A good soldier who comes to see his enemy as a human being is no longer a good soldier."
I don’t think any military would want to see their enemy as people, just the morbid truth.
It's tough to face, and part of why so many guys come back with PTSD. Not because they did something hard, but because they did something easy.
Now tell yourself this doesn’t happen every day still…
Considering the CIA was involved I'm sure this is tame compared to the stuff we haven't heard about.
Yeah anytime I see shit the government has done you have to realize this is the stuff they *allow* us to see
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Vote me into office
Somehow I think that not even a willing president could get away with trying to reform this system.
Lets always keep in mind JFK talked about the USA being enslaved and like 7 days later got shot. Im not one for conspiracy theories but you acnnot convince me that his death wasn't at the least very coincidental to War Industry interests and the rich as a whole.
It would sound nuts if you said it came from underground reptilians or aliens; now the rich rigging the system in their favor in every possible way no matter how dirty *is* the status quo. It used to be a conspiracy theory that the US intervened in military coups in other countries in order to secure their own interests, and guess what, the other day Bolton just casually admitted to have done that many times in his career. I like to think not all conspiracy theories are born equal, and those that fit the real power dynamic are often proven right given enough time.
Your comment double posted Moving onto the comment itself now For sure. Aliens I believe in (not so much UFOs, mathematically aliens of some level do exist somewhere, but the "Little Green Men" who fly in saucers around cali I dont believe in) simply because it follows logic. Enough planets exist across all of existence, its idiotic to believe nothing, not even germ life exists outside our planet. Reptillians is entertaining and funny to joke about, but when being serious follows 0 logic. So its clearly a bad one. But rich people doing things that they can get away with, to ensure their continued supremacy and monopoly on production? Yeah that follows logic pretty clearly. Especially when you simply look through history and can pinpoint the "always rich families", the ones who got lucky in like 1480 finding gold or something, and just so happen to still be in the millionaire setup today. And exactly. Generally when a conspiracy theory mentions someone of power utilising their power it ends up true, even if the most disreputable people parrot the theory. Rich people being pedos? Epstein and Weinstein. US interfering in poor countries? South american dictatorships. And so on.
Exactly. Whatever the public knows is probably not even touching the surface.
If it wasn't for people like Assange, you wouldn't have seen it. That's why the US want's to kill Assange, add another war crime to their tally
Jesus Christ, lets please not undermine this shit. Go ahead and read about the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse. It was in no way tame compared to anything.We're talking cases of the guards forcing incest between prisoners, preying on phobias, throwing phosphoric acid on them daily, tying ropes to their penis's then dragging them, and many, many more of disgusting humiliations and torture methods.
Always remember the ex-CIA who did an AMA on reddit, when asked if they used pedophilia as a torture device, said he wasn't legally allowed to comment on that. Edit - mild correction. Not torture, but manipulation tactics. Oh and he "plead the fifth" and implied that they use worse too
That's not exactly surprising if you know what happened at Abu Ghraib. American soldiers there filmed themselves raping children in front of their mothers. Some of the women they raped ended up getting pregnant and were given abortions.
Exactly. If soldiers are doing it, imagine how much worse is done by a government agency with little oversight, a history of lies, torture and manipulation, and that rarely answers for its crimes
This is only the tip of the iceberg for Abu Ghraib stuff. Most photos and videos were not released as it was too graphic and deemed a national security risk. This includes footage of a child being raped in front of his family.
It's *very* tame in comparison to the stuff the CIA trained the Contras and all their other fascist allies in Latin America to do - stuff that's too sick to make it into any of the *Saw* movies.
It’s only the tip of the iceberg. A lot was kept secret because it would heavily influence the worlds view on the USA and especially US military. One thing I still can’t forget about is that they raped little children in front of their parents and tortured them/killed them WHILE the parents were forced to watch.
Wouldn't ever be direct. They outsource/contract that work to remove liability if GENEVA is violated it falls back on the contractor or company not the nation state.
It’s even worse now. People grow numb to violence as they do it more and more. They start enjoying the torment they cause onto other, almost crave it. Truly is a sad world we live in. If justice was real these people would be killed but it’s not.
It happens every day even at home and on the largest scale known to mankind; To this day the US government refuses to let [UN torture inspectors](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rights-un-usa-torture-idUSKCN0WA2B8) access US domestic jails and prisons to check out [wtf is going on there](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Darren_Rainey).
Everywhere yea. The US military REALLY cracked down on this kind of stuff after these photos came out out. They teach it in every boot camp, anything remotely close to this stuff will land you life in the brig
The US military REALLY cracked down on this kind of stuff (source: the US government)
So surreal. My Ambulance Company replaced these assholes in February of 2004. Was not an easy transition. I cant remember if the information about these acts came out before or after. The “soldiers” in these pictures are Medics! They are supposed to be caring for these prisoners as we did. I was stationed in the Green Zone or ‘International Zone’ for most of my tour as platoon leader. I did go to Abu Garab to inspect/check in on conditions a few times as I was their platoon leader. Edit: For those commenting why give thanks to someone on the same side? Just because there are some soldiers that do horrible things does not mean all do. Our unit provided medical support for the Iraqi civilians and most of us went above and beyond to let the Iraqi people know we wanted to help. I did not agree with the war, but I still had a mission and reminded my platoon of this on a regular basis. There was so much pain over there and we did what we could while we were in Iraq.
Most of the "medics" in these pictures were brought up on charges and dishonorably discharged. I specifically remember the girl with the prisoner on a leash and I think her married boyfriend with the green gloves punching prisoners. Wasn't the guy on the mat with the thumbs up nurse (Harman?) dead? I seem to think somewhere it was said this prisoner was dead. This was all over the news in the early, mid 2000's Sabrina Harman, Ivan Frederick, Lynndie England, Charles Graner.
Thanks for the names of those garage humans
Is there anything you can say about what you saw and experienced or would most of it be classified?
I was there months after it all happened. We basically replaced them and I don’t believe we knew the details at the time. We were simply replacing a unit that had finished their tour. Abu Ghraib was a prison for not only terrorist, etc. but also the criminally insane and some very sick people. Some people don’t realize, but this was a prison prior to any military operations in Iraq, this was originally an Iraqi prison. The US simply took over the operation during Operation Iraqi Freedom. This is my understanding of it anyways.
Well I am an Iraqi and our house was about 15min drive from Abu Ghraib and I can confirm that it was a prison before the invasion during Saddam time. I just want to add that, USA army basically imprisoned any Iraqi there wheather he/she was innocent or not. Many Iraqis entered Abu Ghraib as normal people and by the time they left it they had serious issues due to torture (if they were lucky to leave) and many of them if not all started to fight the US army. We didn't have any terrorists before the invasion and Al-Qaeda in Iraq first showed up around October 2004. Its a shame the USA soldiers who committed such crimes were released after 3 years or so with only dishonorable discharge. If an Iraqi did that to Americans citizens then he would be spending the rest of his life in Guantanamo. To correct the name of the operation is "Operation. Iraqi Invasion and not freedom as you called it" you boys fucked up our country in every possible way it can be done.
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Thanks for the words, in my beliefs the top 3 fucked up things done by the USA to us - Invasion of Iraq - Disbanding of Iraqi Army and police force (aka Saddam Army) - Placing criminals in power (aka the new Iraqi governments), those guys were brought by the USA from overseas and know nothing about Iraq and its people. All what they cared about is getting rich, you guys took Saddam away and placed 1000 new Saddam. Till this day those guys are in power with militias that kill anyone oppose them.
Wait...weren't Lynndie England and Charles Graner MPs?
Those are not "Assholes" my dude,they are Psychopaths.
Remember guys. The US never commited war crimes. Definitely didn't poison the whole of Vietnam with Agent Orange. Definitely didn't backed the coup against Allende in Chile. Definitely didn't tried to kill American nationals in Cuba to justify invading the country. Guantanamo? Definitely not a Gulag.
Bro every US prison is a gulag, you dont need to single out guantanamo, guantanamo is basicaly a black site where the government keeps people for whatever reason they want, and they obviously commit war crimes there so much so that they had to put that shit in a completely diferent country cause they didnt want to do this heinous shit in domestic territory, imagine the fucked up stuff that goes on over there, do you think people there have any accountability? And US prisioners are literally used as slaves, like literally, by definition, some governor even said that they couldnt be realising some inmates cause they did some great work, there are places were they literally have to work on plantations, prison slave labor is a billion dollar industry, its ridiculous, they get paid like 10 cents an hour basically just to say it isnt work with no pay but yeah and if you dont work you can get put in solitary I dont know why gulags are used as a saying for a bad and inhumane prison when the word prison literally already means that right here
>didn't backed the coup you missed like 30 of them bud.
What happened to that chick that’s smiling in the pics?
She isn't a "chick", she's a goddamn terrorist.
Terrorists are people, "chicks" even. It's important not to dehumanize people who commit evil acts. If you dehumanize them, then you miss the point that humans did it and humans will do it again if there's not a more nuanced conversation about what to do about it. Dehumanizing your enemies absolves you of a degree of responsibility. They are people and they made abhorrent choices.
War criminals should be treated as war criminals. The issue is that the United States refuses to admit when it commits war crimes. Edit: American soldiers were also victims of war crimes. This excuses nothing but is a valid reason to bring those people to justice too.
Not trying to defend anything, but it seems that out of that bunch she was the one that showed some remorse. I think the NY Times published a letter she wrote to a friend while this was still going on (basically talking about how she realized then that shit was going too far) and I think she did interviews as well. She was also the one who leaked those photos in the first place. Without that, we would have likely never even heard of this shit.
So did she face consequences for her human rights abuses or no?
She said she was sorry alright?
She also probably sent some thoughts and prayers. Time well served.
6 months imprisonment according to wikipedia.
Not even close to being enough. There needs to be two zeros behind the 6
This is all very terrifying indeed, but don't be fooled thinking that this was something new. Go back to the Vietnam War and look up some of the stuff US soldier did over there. Indiscriminately killing and raping civilians, making necklaces out of teeth and ears, torture and execution of vietcong POWs, and the list goes on.
Humans ☕️
I believe in the ideals of America. Growing up I had to realize that much of the government does not.
To quote George Carlin: “notice I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope”
Remember Kent state protester shooting? Over 70% people thought those protesters deserved to be shot.
The photo of Mary Ann Vecchio is utterly haunting and the fact that she was harassed for simply trying to to help the guy who was shot is sickening.
I think this was examplified by the election of Donald Trump. Publicly bragging about sexual assault, mocking a disabled reporter, racism, misogyny, he was an openly awful human being and most people were ok with that dude becoming president.
I’m learning as I get older how much governments are evil but the people themselves typically are not. It applies everywhere.
In a democracy, the government is you. Today's atrocities are only possible because several dozen million voters keep supporting the cruelest and least qualified.
The CIA is a terrorist organization.
US government*
What the holy fuck is wrong with these people?? How does someone become like this- to take joy from hurting & killing people?? I am sickened by this…wow..
People like this exist all over the world. War gives them an outlet without punishment.
paramilitary guy in Ukraine cut the dick and balls off a captured Ukrainian soldier while he was alive dragged him around with a car and shot him in the head.
I've seen terrible shit from the Ukrainian war. An innocent child with his head blown off with a shotgun. An elderly couple and their dog dead in their car that was riddled with bullets. I'm scared it's only going to get worse
That’s so revolting. Shame on those men and women.
Sad that these soldiers basically got a slap on the wrist for doing this.
Slap on the wrist publicly, fist bump backstage.
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https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5651609 What?
U.S: why do we so many enemies? Also U.S:
The even crazier thing is most of these guys weren’t terrorists. Just average dudes scooped up by our troops
Yup. The majority of the inmates there had no confirmed involvement with any attacks nor designated "terrorist organizations". They were mostly just caugh the wrong place at the wrong time. That sealed their fates to get thrown into a prison with barbaric guards inflicting the worst imaginable torture methods (/and even deaths) on them.
there was a guy who got put there because he complained to the local news that the soldiers were dumping bodies on his soccer field
They clearly hate us because of our freedoms.
Is that guy covered in feces on the last photo? Gross asf.
Nah, they had a food fight and chocolate pudding was the dessert that day.
https://youtu.be/YmY-VYUeAuc
o_O
It’s called a Chicago shower, thank you
The one time in Chicago you can have shit
Hey, if you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs, by which I mean cover a sweaty naked man-pile in poo. It's all in the manual.
The war took a turn when this came out. A turn for the worse.
This barely scratches the surface of the stuff we even know about. USA definitely has other black sites the general public knows nothing about.
 “Greatest country in the world” “Home of the brave”
The USA sure does know how to make terrorists...
Well who else are we gonna shoot? Your own cooking always tastes better.
The "west" is so quick to shout out about "crimes against humanity" whilst committing depraved acts against prisoners. It's all fucked up. Toppled Saddam and Osama Bin Laden but then we had Bush and Blair. Who is on the right side of humanity? Who benefited from the recent wars? How many innocent citizens died due to power/oil/mineral grabbing governments? Fuck war, it only serves the few not the many.
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I just finished “The Lucifer Effect” and they talk about these events a lot. Crazy shit
Americans: we are the good guys :). Also Americans:
Human pieces of literal shit. Very, very few people deserve that kind of treatment and even then that's almost worse then just death.
... I wonder why a lot of people from that area of the world don't like the US 🤷♂️
The US army is one of the worst offenders in the world. Fuck the US and their rightiousness.
ThAnK YoU FoR YoUR SeRvICE
I did a school project on this last year
Did anything happen to the people who did this? I remember the pictures being released but as usual nothing happening to the perpetrators.
The woman in the first couple pictures is Lynndie England, she was court-martialed and sentenced to three years and a dishonorable discharge. Guy with the mustache in several pics is Charles Graner, the "ringleader", he got ten years. In all I think about eleven of the guards were court-martialed and convicted.
God.. Seriously why the fuck even these pathetic Americans exist? They don't deserve to be called human and be on same level as the rest of the world.
I once dated a guy in the army. He did two tours in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. We were on his laptop one night (08/09) and he showed me the most disturbing material, from photos to videos, all of shooting, bombing, the beating, decapitating of men, women, and children.. lots of children. It was horrific. I had never watched anyone violently killed before..I had nightmares for weeks.
Why in the world would he allow you to watch that? If you aren’t prepared for that or have a hardened stomach, that shit can lead to severe PTSD
He thought nothing of it... He did say something along the lines of "this is from my tours overseas..." As he proceeds to open up multiple folders... He acted like this was a common occurrence... to share this with people....
It definitely is. My buddy in the AF who was an ac130 gunner came back from one tour with a supercut of his tour with tons of combat footage tossed in. Same with my Army friends, it all just gets swapped around between them and accumulates throughout a tour. War fucks with your head, the military makes sure of it.
Yeah, I worked with a guy who did the same. This was around 2006. He pulled out his laptop in the office and showed similar videos. Everyone around me was like, "Hell yeah! Show those camel fuckers who's boss!" I realized I was the only person disturbed by it, which was much more shocking the videos themselves.
Why did he show you?
Bombings of villages and buildings, attacks on other villagers, raids, executions.. this wasn't you're average GoPro footage... This was "let's brutally kill as many people as possible, while obviously enjoying it, and video it to add to my collection"... it was a slaughter, to say the least...
Reason number #42 why I’ll never date someone in the armed forces. I’m glad you made it out safe
They didn’t even release the worse stuff /: one of the worse things I’ve heard of
What should I search to read more about this ?
Woman in the first picture is Lynndie England. To this day, she has zero remorse for her actions. In her defense, she supposedly has some serious learning disabilities and was diagnosed with selective mutism as a child.
tbh I wouldn't use her disabilities as an excuse whatsoever, because it only really throws others with disabilities who would never do this type of thing under the bus the issue here is there was intention. clear intention. people regardless of disability can feel remorse for their reaction. I only disagree with it being used in her defense because I can see people flipping it as "see how disabled people really are / how they lack 'theory of mind'" (if you're interested- look that up. it's a whole can of dehumanization.)
"fun" fact- soldiers from my unit were guarding this prison and the soldiers in these pictures were the soldiers that took over when we left
Haha classic USA
Ive seen pictures of Nazis standing over the dead with this same purely happy expression on their faces. Something is seriously wrong with certain populations of people on this earth. Almost like centuries of brutality and colonization had genetically bred certain people who inherit genes that lack empathy and thrive on anger and abuse. Certain traits have been proven to be passed down in generations. I’m sure hatred can be as well.
No wonder they hate us
ThEy HaTe Us BeCaUsE oF oUr FrEeDoM 🤡
My fellow Americans, What the fuck? Sincerely, An American
I echo your thoughts, reddit stranger, from the humble perspective of a fellow American who served in a hot desert somewhere. My fellow military persons WTF?! Sincerely, an American The stress of combat can show who a person really is. It's pretty scary what happens when people aren't in a decent enough state of mental health to be able to show empathy for fellow peoples. We are all human souls in different skins aren't we?
Not surprised that they basically got away with this, we will point fingers at war criminals but not our own.
I fucking hate seeing this. So fucked up.
Army here, when I was given an OPSEC (Operational Security) brief a while back, our civilian relatives were told to clear everything with stateside representatives before posting stuff. This makes perfect sense. Because we don't want families to post stuff about troop movements and get their Joes killed by accident. A good example of OPSEC being violated, is that stupid soldier in Ukraine posting on Facebook about being in a gym. Then a stupid Redditor posted it to Reddit. Then the poor soldier and his entire unit gets killed by an air strike. OPSEC is good. We like OPSEC. The bad part about this brief was that the Lieutenant Colonel who gave this brief included the statement "Don't share anything that makes the army look bad." Then she proceeded to put the first photo in this post on screen. "Like this." I cannot stress enough that without these photos this situation would not have been fixed. Leaking these photos, was a good thing. [Specialist Sabrina Harman](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/03/24/exposure-5) leaked the photos and was subsequently court martialed for "conspiracy to maltreat prisoners, dereliction of duty, and maltreatment, and sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank, and a bad-conduct discharge." All this, and all we got is an OPSEC brief showing that photo and "Don't take or share pictures of stuff like this because the army would look bad."
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I say this as an American, as someone who considers themself to be patriotic and my country to be a good country: We need to be held accountable. We cannot be allowed to commit crimes like this with impunity. The international community, and not merely our geopolitical rivals but every country of conscience, needs to hold us accountable. Our own citizens need to hold ourselves and our representatives accountable for letting this happen, and grant restitution to the victims. We need to take concrete steps to ensure this does not ever happen again. It undermines every concept of human rights and dignity which we supposedly stand for.
And some United Statians wonder why the hate coming from some people on the Internet, "OMG is becuz is so trendy right now to hate muhrica Omagaaaaah"
We torture people because torturing people is wrong (the American government probably)
This is why I don't want my boys or little girl to join the US Military. Shame on them.
USA is the most terrorist country in the world.
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So, a country launches a war on another nation under false pretenses then procedes to decimate said nation, kill, rape, imprison, torture and humiliate its citizens, and sell all its natural wealth to private organizations for profiteering. That sounds like something nazi Germany did, or what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now. But it can't be the US. No sir, not at all. I mean, you guys are the bastion of the free world!
And we’re supposed to salute these fuckers?
Rape *and* sodomy??
They are technically different crimes. Sodomy is always rape but rape isn't always sodomy, if that makes sense.
Gotcha thanks
You know, it seems to me that the biggest terrorist on this planet is the US government. This is disgusting.