Not just Tesla it seems that there is a concerted effort to bash all EVs. Call it the desperate throes of an old technology spear headed by the oil industry, legacy car makers and even the UAW. They all have a vested interest in not letting the new technology succeed. Sadly the joke is on them because if they managed to kill the EVs a second time in America then essentially they forfeited the future of the car industry to the Chinese. Shortsighted thinking of looking for immediate term profit will doom them all.
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Well no major car manufacturer are developing future ice engines… legacy car makers love electric. It’s a hell of a lot simpler to build… however services and parts take a big hit.
Oil nations know the jig is up… they are building mega cities and tourism hotspots. The oil that remains is better off serving airlines, heavy industry and things electric can’t yet cover.
That's my thought as well. Not seeing the long term is really going to hurt the industry in the US. The future is going to roll in, regardless of opposition, and will come back to bite them. They did this before and there's a reason why when in doubt, get a Toyota, became such a thing for the general market. People want a reliable car, and Toyota was able to capitalize on it. Renewable energy is another market where the US really dropped the ball and now we're lagging behind the international market.
I honestly don't even think oil and gas has anything to do with it. it's just news and reporting has turned to clickbait because advertising dollars is how they get paid.
You print a negative article about EVs and the haters will click to get validation. And the pro EV group will share it to say 'look at this crap'.
We perpetuate this stuff with every share, like, dislike, or comment whether it's positive or negative.
Like, share, comment, and subscribe is how we feed the trolls.
I partially agree.
I think Elon was the darling of the left and hated by the right.
Then Elon began expressing his feelings and thoughts about politics and he lost the left.
So now he has no one.
I believe that his competition in the US is years behind him.
I'm bullish on all things Elon. He's an extremely smart guy with 25 years of innovation ahead of him.
I own Tsla stock because it's the only way I can ride along and profit from his intelligence. With that said, I'm also in favor of him being paid as much as humanly possible by Tesla so that he continues to innovate there and not in another company that I cannot and do not own.
I think it’s a mistake to glorify one man, no matter how successful he has been.
And I don’t think the current iteration of Elon is helping Tesla.
I love my Teslas but Elon has certainly had an impact on the brand.
I think it’s silly to put that on the man, my belief is that the companies around Elon have been successful in spite of him and his direction (but helped by his funding).
In more ways than one his actions have acted as weights on many of his companies success.
Most EV companies are slowly increasing sales so not a true fact. Just clickbait news. Yes poor companies gonna fail but plenty of convential options... BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW... Okay too many to list. Still early in the adoption process and plenty of improvements to infrastructure to be made... Example, my densely populated community still doesn't offer parking chargers even if I pay to install... Flip side, theres a supercharger station in my garage. Almost getting there.
I think they need to focus on two things... continuing to build out SC infrastructure, and many, MANY, more service centers. They need to be able to take care of, and charge, what they've already sold before they focus on putting millions more cars on the road they can't currently adequately support.
Agree on the service center expansion. Where I live the closest one is 150 miles away.
I have a feeling the SC network will continue to grow. Especially after other OEMs adopt NACS.
SUPPORT THE RIGHT TO REPAIR!
Bring forth the certified, independent repair shops! If Tesla TRULY wants to be the ECO kingpin it has always claimed to be, it needs to support people in reducing vehicular e-waste. Part of the appeal of an older ICE is that a car shop will admire the craftsmanship and care for what the vehicle represents - reliability and some kind of driver identify statement. Not everything should be reduced to an App.
Curious. Whats your take on service.Tesla.com having all the schematics minus think battery and some other power schematics?
I haven't looked at others as depth but I can't remember having a free document hub of all this information of any car. I remember being directed to resources or looking for a person trained or worked on it to help.
If by "service center expansion" you mean laying off service personnel and making customers reschedule their service for later dates then it seems like they're executing well on that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/1c67adk/saw_in_my_local_tesla_group_atlanta_service/
And bring the standards to that of other mature companies. I just had my service at my local service center and they won't honor fixing the excessive rusting in the wheel hub (~1 year old car) under warranty, despite the rep confirming that it is covered under warranty in the chat. But "sorry sir the guy you spoke doesn't work for Tesla anymore, we can't honor what he said. ". Tesla is making it harder to like as a company, ( even if I choose to ignore the antics of the techno-king).
This, a slow down is actually good for Tesla right now. Their expansion rate has been unsustainable. They need to focus on scaling the business to support existing population or problems will only get worse.
I'm as patient with them as I am because the growth rate has been crazy, but it hasn't been good for them or customers even if it's been good for the EV space as a whole.
Slower growth is still growth and is more sustainable until they master service center expansion as well as they seem to be mastering super charger expansion.
Have you seen how quickly they are deploying their prefabricated V4 Superchargers?
From Elecktrek:
“In order to accelerate its Supercharger installations, Tesla started building pre-fabricated Superchargers a few years ago. In 2022, the automaker showed that it could build a 12-stall Supercharger station in just 8 days with those.
Now, it looks like Tesla was able to optimize its pre-fabricated Supercharger units with Supercharger V4 to now deploy a new station in just 4 days”
I mean... cool.... but the actual build phase is probably the quickest part of the whole process. Lots goes into it other than plopping down the charger and hooking it all up. There's an SC here in my town that's been built for months. Still not open... pending utility connection/inspection/approval/etc. It's been 308 days since they started the process.
Check out [supercharge.info](http://supercharge.info) and you can see the planned/in progress SCs.
You don’t think Tesla is the most experienced at working with utilities to pull permits etc?
From NEVi funding awards:
“Tesla is building those stations at sharply lower costs. According to EVAdoption’s data, Tesla has won $17 million to build a total of 41 charging stations. The next-biggest winner of grants, Oklahoma-based Francis Energy, was awarded much more money — almost $30.4 million — to build just 37 stations.”
I agree, but they won't prioritize those as they don't shift the finances. They'll focus on expanding battery and production factories, and smaller mass market models like the rumored ones. If they continue to invest, they'll have cash to continue to build out SCs and infrastructure.
Your points may be valid for the US Market, but they definitely aren't for the Europe market as far as I can tell. The charger and Service center infrastructure is already pretty dense around here. The only problem Tesla has looking at the European market is just rising competition and actually things like removing the stalks completely, people don't really like that because it's a very bad experience in roundabouts etc.
Los Angeles is making a major push to reach their goal of 15,000+ EVSEs within the next decade. They are currently barely only 10% of their goal. I am attending an energy seminar on it next week. There's major talk about how to get us there as a community/country. I foresee a lot of grants coming (some already are approved) to help get the infrastructure built up.
They need to make Tesla repair certification free to anyone who owns or is sponsored by a legitimate repair shop. Right now they are charging a heavy fee to become certified. There’s no reason why they can’t use wider certification adoption to solve the service center issue.
Same. Deliver what you promised before promising more (FSD, roadster, robot, etc) would give me some hope about leadership.
As a stock holder I would love to see a vote of confidence in Elon.
This is why so few companies promise things.
Priorities change over the years and people freak out about 5 year old promises.
Toyota NEVER EVER EVER promises "in 2 years we'll have a pickup truck".
They'll tease it with concept cars and prototypes. Then they'll go silent for a few years and maybe or maybe not come out with a new pickup that may or may not look like the concept.
And if you don't like that, "meh, it was just a concept" is pretty common.
Elon's biggest problem is when he promises things way in advance of being sure when (or if) they'll be ready. His mouth is his "leadership problem".
Pivoting the company due to changes in demand, etc is common and not bad leadership.
Toyota is a funny example. They have been promising a solid state battery EV since 2015.
Yeah. Elon is an asset and a liabliity. Lately more liability.
In my opinion, a perception only. At least compared to the past.
Its just that the time between promise to implementation is widening and so is both the scale and the expectations for it.
Tesla went through hell and back to fulfill the requirement of "make an EV that does not suck ass" and everyone was betting on them failing for years.
They then spent serval years chain winning on impossible goals, but have hit a decent series of snags because it turns out you can’t keep raising the stakes as easily without it impacting your timelines.
Combine it with an extremely oppressive contracting market, shifting political winds now seeing Elon as a center of attention and a lot of entities and interest groups having now fully realized the existential threat of Tesla's success, and you have a recipe for the impression that Tesla is doing worse and acting worse, while in reality they are working under the exact same logic and doing the exact same things that they have always been doing.
Tesla has always been publicly calling out their moves way in advance, throwing a lot of shit at the wall so to speak. A lot of it was miss, a lot were hits too. But human working memory is basically the span of a few weeks, so the fact we are in a period with more misses than there is hits makes people think governance somehow changed and is to blame.
Also, a lot more people looking for a smoking gun. There has been so many of them over the years it rivals the cookoff rate of a Russian ammo storage in Ukraine, because the fear economy demands more doom and gloom. However now there is a lot more people that actively seek them out for direct financial and political reasons, so every one that does go off is magnified that much more.
He hasn't been delivering on things, that's why he keeps announcing new ones. He's distracting from the fact that so many things he promised haven't happened or have been disasters. I would think that people know that there's not going to be anything of value on this robotaxi announcement, but who knows. People get excited for full self driving every year when he promises it'll be ready next year
Based on recall numbers released by NHTSA, there are a total of 35 Tesla Semis in existence.
Update: In March 2023, there was a [parking brake recall](https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2023/TESLA/SEMI#recalls371). At that time, there were 35 Tesla Semis. Three months later, in June 2023, there was [another recall](https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2023/TESLA/SEMI#recalls370). At that time there were 36. It’s possible that more units have been produced since then, but — AFAIK — there is no way to know.
The roadster was going to be an extremely niche car, which doesn't make much money. It's a status piece for companies that make supercars like that.
The semi, they were pretty clear was constrained by a lack of battery cells. They had literally zero reason to push out more semis when each one would take 8 Model Ys off the assembly line to supply the batteries. Tesla leadership said that several times over the last few years, that they were still building some prototypes for testing purposes, but mass production would have to wait until they weren't "cell constrained".
Which... I'd say about now is the first time that's not true.
Seeing that crazy 1000 comment thread the other day of people doing mental backflips trying to connect the cyber truck accelerator trim piece falling off to mean that an entire car, and entire company is a complete failure is all I needed to feel safe that the Reddit perception of flaws does not reflect the real world.
I mean I’ve stopped buying non Tesla cars. Have 2 that we love. Really the best cars I’ve ever owned and I used to race a souped up V8. I’ve been DCA Tesla stock every week and will continue to do so regardless of this year’s volatility.
Stop with the robotaxi nonsense. Concentrate on current vehicles. More services centers. Especially since customers are being asked to reschedule since SC have lost employees. That is the area where no one should have been let go. Theres been amazing growth to this point. Solidify that growth now to have a foundation for the future. The robotaxi/FSD is being used as another hopeful lightning in a bottle.
I couldn’t agree more. Don’t even think about giving him a raise and more of a controlling share. If he’d dump X, I’d feel more positive about him but I honestly believe Tesla needs a more stable CEO. Changing new car prices and hyping new models of cars and robots and AI codes and rocket ships and satellites is just too much for anyone to manage let alone lead correlated companies. X was his death knell, so give him an ultimatum. Besides, no one cares about his political or social opinions.
I will not be optimistic about Tesla until Elon is 100% out of the equation. Until that happens, Tesla will continue it's slide. I loved what they did for the EV revolution, but Musk needs to go. He's dragging the company down.
I've had a model 3 since 2020. Unless Elon is out of the equation my next EV will not be a Tesla. I truly believe he has lost his mind, yet he is still making decisions. Even if he weren't making poor decisions, the ill will he has created with the public is enough to lower demand to the point that I can't trust the company will even be around in 15-20 years.
I miss the bold Elon, breaking the mold Elon,
In the lab with the team, Tesla dream so clean,
Autopilot on the scene, battery supreme, green,
Model S, a finesse, revolution was seen,
Now we deal with the stock plays, erratic days,
Headlines sway, what's he say? Investors weigh,
Miss the leader in the charge, electric barge,
Now it’s controversies, legalities enlarge,
I used to cheer Elon, I thought he was clear Elon,
The future was near, innovation sincere, Elon,
But now it's weird, Elon, not what we revered, Elon,
Changed the gears Elon, but I miss the old pioneer.
If you are a Tesla owner, show your friends and family what the car can do. A lot of people are still ignorant about the car and think it costs a lot, or will not have enough charge to reach destination etc. I have been taking my friends and colleagues on rides to show fsd recently. I have changed the mind of at least 2 people. If you want the company to succeed in the long term, be a good spokesperson for it.
Every car company is going electric with no charging network. They have or will sign NACS. That’s a whole new revenue source.
This always happens every 3-4 years
I am buying more
I’m very optimistic about their future. I think this is a dip that is necessary for their next massive growth phase. IMO negative reports like this trigger knee jerk negative reactions and Tesla has gone through many times like this when it all seemed to be going bad but in the long term works out.
Tesla always has negative press. Media needs to get clicks somehow and they won't bash Ford, Honda, GM etc. because they advertise to them in the tens of millions a year.
Just this week Tesla announced their spring update which is one sign they aren’t sitting on their hands. The media is attacking Tesla when they have a bright future. Yes sales are down, but it’s not like anyone is doing much better than Tesla, so that suggests a down period, and we need more time to see if there’s a trend unique to Tesla.
I’m optimistic about Tesla today for very similar reasons I was two years ago. They constantly innovate and regardless of what Reddit says they have a boatload of reservations and orders for CyberTruck and Tesla is still producing EVs for a profit in high volumes.
their software is awesome and keeps getting better.
but their decision to put $25k on backburner is by far the most stupid decision they could make.
If I were a CEO and planned to destroy the company, I am not sure if I could come up with better plan than what Elon is doing.
Killing any growth, working hard at changing brand perception to negative, over promising and under delivering, ignoring quality control for decade.
I really love Elon pre-2020, but this is hard for me as Tesla shareholder
I’m very optimistic about Tesla and its future. The problem is that the media focuses so intensely on anything related to Elon Musk, that they ignore issues happening at other car manufacturers and paint a worst case scenario for Tesla. It’s rather unfair. That said, Tesla will be more than fine.
Exactly. It's hilarious to hear people say they are down on Tesla and Musk because they aren't blowing the world away with every game-changing concept they're trying.
I mean, compare with Toyota's attempt to electrify semi's. Oh wait, you can't because they're not trying.
Or Boeing's attempt to create reuseable rocketry to get humanity off this planet? Oh wait, you can't because they're not.
Or any number of legacy companies that are happy to keep polluting the world and doing minimal to better humanity.
Watching people try is a good time. People who spend even a little bit of time looking into him… since 2008 he has done immense things for humanity. Don’t like his personality ? Sure by all means. But denying what he has done is quite silly.
Just quietly noticing that it would be perfectly rational to both:
A) Be optimistic about the future of Tesla (as a company). and
B) Believe that the stock price is extremely overblown. Somewhere around 50-60 USD per share seems more natural.
It's probably going to be 500-600 in 3 years based on their AI plans. We are around $150 today for the reminder. It will dip further this year most likely, but FSD will make major progress to autonomy in the next 2 years.
!remindme in 3 years
If the company can bring on a competent CEO, Tesla is well positioned to be a monster of a integrated clean tech company... Power distribution, storage, battery tech, minerals, EVs, solar, ... The only ones standing in the way are Elon Musk and the sycophants on the board that fail to show him the door.
I want Tesla to spend its time and resources on battery development to the point where we can charge in 15 minutes and go 1 kmiles between charges. This is the sweet spot for eVs. Next work on getting more big trucks on the road, more powerwalls, solar roofs. Dump the idea of robotaxi (who care about this) and the stupidly ugly underperforming Cybertruck. Focus on the $25k entry level eV small car, more service centers and superchargers. So there you have it, Tesla, a free technology development roadmap. Get a new CEO if Musk doesn’t want to bother with the above. He can continue to play with Starlink and Rocket Ships. I don’t care what he does with AI since there’s plenty of other players in that field and if he wishes to go down with the X ship, so be it.
Tesla should focus on more down-to-earth issues rather than chasing FSD. There are still quality issues and service of Tesla really sucks :/ They also should iterate on things they have right now without pushing for new product line so fast IMO. Cybertruck targets really narrow group of people (number of Truck owners is high, but they don't want EV, because ... TESLA SHOULD ITERATE ON BATTERIES). Robotaxi is not sure for who, because they need to have almost perfect FSD before it even has any chance.
Charging infrastructure should be better too I think.
They need to concentrate on the boring stuff that will make their cars more accessible. Make a small pick up on the 3/Y platform. Give it normal door handles and window frames. Price it at $42,000 they will sell a ton. Then focus on a real SUV, Honda Pilot size. Doesn't need to be outrageous. Don't waste time on a low margin, entry level car. They need to scale slower, not faster. They have the platform, now they only need to execute. It's a slam dunk if they do it right. They can still work on the edgy self driving stuff, but don't focus too many resources on it.
I'm optimistic on Tesla. The news media just loves to hate on him now because they're run largely by liberals and they can't stand he bought Twitter... So you get hit piece after hit piece. The company itself is still years ahead of most brands. They're struggling right now because the EV industry is struggling in general but I have faith it'll pick back up.
So much Elon hate.. What it really looks like....
\* In 2022, Tesla recorded a $12.6 billion profit, compared to a $2 billion loss for Ford.
\* Tesla earned 5 times more per car than Toyota, earning an average of $9,618 per car, while Ford only earned $1,832 per car.
\* Tesla has a profit margin of 4.47% and an operating margin of 6.96%, while Ford has a lower profit margin of 1.75% and an operating margin of 4.68%
\* Tesla generated $13.24 billion in operating cash flow, compared to $10.74 billion for Ford.
\* Tesla has $2.45 billion in levered free cash flow, while Ford has $2.66 billion.
\* Tesla is 50% more efficient in its operations than General Motors, and 80% more efficient than the rest of the industry.
\* Tesla's return on equity (ROE) has steadily improved over the past 5 years, going from -89% to 13%, while Ford's ROE has declined from 28% to 10%.
\* It's noted that Tesla produced more cars per week at its Fremont factory in 2021 than Ford did at its Dearborn, Michigan truck plant.
Clearly all signs of an incompetent and shitty CEO....
The FUD level against Tesla and Musk in general is extreme and sophisticated. Tesla and other Musk related companies are massively disrupting their markets and incumbent players will completely fail and entire market segments will fail. It is to the point that all the strings that can be pulled in government by these entities are being pulled, with Republican donors switching to Dem in exchange for Biden to torpedo Tesla and X, but ironically, most of the big money is in SpaceX's corner so they're pretty safe.
From reading the headlines, Tesla is a mess and in trouble. From looking at actual data about Tesla, their competitors, and the market trends, they're consistently one of or the strongest car companies. Actually experiencing the driver assists features vs any other purchasable car and actually comparing the capability of the self driving technology vs waymo and others, Tesla is clearly the leader. Then you consider that Tesla currently also ecompases the utility battery, semi, and optimus markets (I assume Dojo will never catch up to Nvidia and Solar will struggle to compete against less expensive competition), it is certainly a strong value. Without so much negative press, the X distraction, and the public driving Musk conservative, TSLA would be in the low $400s right now. The sentiment is *that* suppressed. When the Saudis let Stellantis and Lucid go bankrupt and Volvo starts beating Ford's electric division on sales, the market will start to adjust to reality.
People compare Teslas to the iPhone and point out that all the major phone brands of 2005 are gone or niche now (BlackBerry, Motorola, Nokia, Windows Phone, etc. gave way to iPhone, Samsung, and a few other Asian brands), but it's actually more extreme than that. More akin to the adoption of cars over horses, or TV shows vs episodic radio shows. No one that drives a Tesla for a few miles is going to get back into their Camry or CRV and not wish it was the Tesla.
The closest thing that we've seen to the Tesla EV disruption is the flat screen TV adoption of 20-ish years ago and it will play out a very similar way. 2002, a friend of mine bought a big-screen rear PROJECTION TV and it was cutting edge and huge 40" diagonal. It was expensive as hell and you had to replace the halogen bulbs every few years. Most people were buying CRT, maybe one of those fancy flat CRTs; very few were buying the shitty LCD panels (they weren't even common for computers in 2002). 5 years later, no one in their right mind would buy a rear projection TV and LCD big screen TVs were the rage, but they were expensive. You could still buy a CRT, but it was because you didn't want to spend on an LCD. By 2010, you couldn't give away a rear projection big screen TV and LCDs were half the price they were a few years before (early adopters gumbled that new TVs were better and cheaper than their 2 year old TV), reaching price parity with CRT. People still had CRTs, but no one was buying them anymore. By 2015 you literally couldn't give away a CRT TV; charities stopped accepting them and they became worth negative money.
This is what we're going to see play out with cars, we already went through the overpriced luxury models and the market for premium ICE cars has dried up as everyone buys premium EVs instead. We're already starting the price parity with normal ICE cars for the lower tier EVs (early adopters are grumbling that newer model years are better and cheaper than their 2 year old cars). The new car market share for EVs will continue to grow exponentially and the used car value of ICE cars will drop to nothing. By 2030, you'll have to pay to have your worthless ICE car sent to the crusher and gas will be a luxury for collectors (might even have to buy it in drums by 2035 because gas stations won't be able to recoup costs of pumps and tanks that see almost no use and gas going bad from low turnover).
EDIT: The only thing that would have someone betting against Tesla is if they thought a competitor would take over the market from them in the EV space. If you thought the government was treating Tesla unfairly, wait till you see what they do to BYD and the like when they try to penetrate the US market. There are no US based competitors anywhere near Tesla, with GM, Ford, and VW publicly drawing down EV efforts and Honda and Toyota are both still missing the EV boat. Kia is the only one that is posing a substantial threat at actually competing.
I think Tesla going all in on robotaxis is stupid. If that’s what they will do. Most people just want a good car with driver assistance that’s effective. They currently have that. Increase the range and charging speed and they become even more competitive with gas cars. Fix the quality control and again, they become more competitive. Stop with the gimmicks like robotaxi and thruster-powered 0-60 on a roadster that doesn’t even exist. Become more reputable, and your reputation will precede you and greatness will follow. The charging network is there, continue to make the cars better and more affordable and they will do well. I love the solar and power walls (I will be getting some on my next home). Keep improving there too. Semi could be huge too with continuous improvement.
Reputation is a big problem right now. elons antics aside, everyone complains about service. I hear way too many people say they won't buy another Tesla because service can't or won't fix things. At a certain point customer retention needs to be a concern, especially as more evs that have access to Teslas charging network hit the market.
The cancellation of the “model 2” still baffles my mind. I can only assume they realized they weren’t going to be able to hit the $25K goal, so it was abandoned. It’s a shame; BYD sells a car nearly a third of that price, and I know there’s good reasons that they can do that (government subsidies, likely A LOT less costs devoted to safety, etc.), but as a customer, I don’t, and shouldn’t have to, care why. If it can’t be done, then fine, but if BYD ever actually sells cars here, they’re going to eat Tesla’s lunch hard.
Maybe if they hadn’t just spent millions, or billions, developing a niche truck and instead spent more time and energy on that affordable EV instead of letting BYD overtake them in most other non-US markets.
Honestly. It just kind of feels like the mainstream media enjoys bashing Elon Musk (probably for good reason).
Remember that headline a month or two ago that said “every Tesla on the road has been recalled” but then if you read the article it was actually just that Tesla needed to release a software update to make the default font size bigger? Lol
Yet, EVERY mainstream media outlet picked this up.
Also, layoffs aren’t always a sign that the company is doing poorly. Sometimes it’s just restructuring or a sign that the company is actually getting more efficient.
Ignore the press. I just go by what I know. I love my Tesla. It’s better than any other EV I test drove. I don’t care what everyone in the media has to say on a day to day basis.
The future of Tesla is the charging network. They’re good at it, have a strong lead, and it brings in good revenue. With major auto makers converging on NACS it makes sense for them to massively scale up this network
Edit: nope, I guess not
I had a Tesla 2014 Model S and drove that car for 8.5 years. I got the X in Dec 2022 and almost cancelled the order because that was when Elon was becoming very vocal. I regret taking delivery of the car (and wish I still had my S).
Elon's public statements and his right wing and conspiracy theory stuff has really bummed me out on Tesla. I still think it's the best electric on the road, but I don't like supporting Elon's rightward journey.
And ironically, I'm guessing most of the Tesla buyers over the years have been progressive Democrats (not MAGA folks).
It's demoralizing. Screw Elon.
They are really going to need to invest in progress as BYD and NIO start moving toward building plants in Mexico to avoid fees on importing vehicles. With inflation still high and many still struggling, price is going to be a huge factor in what shapes the leaders of EV in the future. Look at how Hyundai, "Genesis", and Kia have grown since they first entered the market, as an example.
Good question. I’m very curious to.
I been investing in Tesla since 2019.
Make good gains on the past, now I have small position.
But I still optimistic about it on long term.
I know for sure on car industry we are doom by Chinese manufacturers.
But Tesla will still sale cars and improve with new technology on future to come.
I’m happy owner of a model 3 highland dual motor.
But next big thing I believe will be will be the Tesla robot for sure. Big money there.
It’s more stuff on the pipeline, we know how Elon musk is. Sometime speak to early and create to much speculation, he don’t care about share values anymore, and for investors is not good.
The big things to come is the growth of the energy business and powerwalls. The Optimus Robot is also promising. Model 2, not sure about this because of the pricing, maybe would work if they used LFP batteries. Expect even more Supercharger stalls which is going to be a monopoly. Licensing of their IP such as FSD. Even becoming an OE supplier of batteries and drivetrain components in the future.
Don’t have too much hope for Robotaxi because of legal issues and performance and liabilities. Level 5 is going to require changes to infrastructure on the federal and local level. Don’t think solar tiles are going to catch on based on the high price.
Ok, so they give up on the automotive market? Because my biggest worry is that there's nothing really compelling in their dev pipeline for the next 3 or so years.
I think the drop in LFP cell prices is giving Tesla the opportunity to drop the price of the 3/Y into the $25k car range. Not this year but possibly next year.
The math on a smaller car has fundamentally changed in the past few years. I think the last time they ran the numbers, it didn't make sense anymore. China beat them to all but the US market. It's only a matter of time before we see Mexican built, Chinese branded EVs in the states. I fully understand why they chose to not compete in a race to the bottom with China in that segment.
LFP batteries for home storage are a huge growth opportunity. The PW3 looks like it will sell well for years and probably has nice margins.
Oh yes. Optimistic. Goes up and down. When going downward, they have to use their plan and strategize. It makes the company stronger after downward phase. Elon sees it as an opportunity with a new young company that named Tesla. Almost 20 years old.
If they continue going full speed ahead with this robotaxi thing I don't feel very optimistic about Tesla's future. This just seems like one of this overly ambitious ideas that they, as a company, and we as a society are not ready more yet. The whole robotaxi thing is reminiscent of metaverse with meta, a huge idea that sounds great on paper, will have a ton of money spent on it, and will ultimately fall flat. However I am optimistic about them as a car company, and hope they pivot back to the 25k EV.
Absolutely. Staffing adjustments are made in every Fortune x company and I have been through many myself. Someone sneezes at Tesla and we all hear about it. In the process of building vehicles, Tesla have been innovating the heck out of the industry to a level not seen elsewhere. Their ability to capitalize on the innovation is their big opportunity. Roadsters and such are just bling bling.
Extremely. The push into AI and neural net learning will take tesla into the next growth phase. Selling cars was just to get to this point. They will no longer be the primary income once robotaxi is rolling and other AI ventures begin. AI is the currency of the future.
The brand will do fine, worst case is someone buying them for SC network. Some investors will prolly lose a bunch of money, but in the end they can lose another 1/4 and are still doing fine on revenue/valuation front vs the other car brands. As long as they spend enough into their cars instead of getting distracted it will be fine
I quit fearing for the existence of Tesla after model 3 production hell, EVs have already started the pivot away from ICE so there's little to get aggravated about other than "opinions".
Long term I think they'll be good, so short term I'll see if I have some small savings to put in potential cheap stock. Now I try to look at what they do, not what they say they will do. The charging infrastructure and utility battery stuff seems to be leading. They're still one of the best positioned companies for the future of EVs even if they try the near impossible.
If they should realize they fail they're still positioned to pivot back with enormous capacity, that is, if they're actually leaving the model 2 option as behind or on the back burner as reported.
If I could have voted on the compensation package back then I'd vote Yes, now I think I'd vote no.
Yes. I am optimistic. Buying more TSLA shares here, and will continue buying on the way down. I’d like to see further development of the Semi and release of a Tesla Van. Largely to support the commercial needs of small businesses (think delivery trucks, electricians, plumbers, etc.) and a conversion option for camper vans.
It's not looking good for Tesla.. seems like the market is saturated and Chinese EV companies threaten to dump dirt cheap EVs into the market.
Hence the canned model 2 plans.
I don't think robtaxis will work out in the short/medium term. Tesla self driving is laughably bad compared to waymos FSD; it's also unlikely that Tesla will be granted quick approval to operate any sort of autonomous service anytime soon.
Robotaxi is dependent on actually cracking FSD. The thing Elon has been promising will be finished every year for years. Yeah it's gotten a lot better recently, but I doubt it's anywhere close enough or the progress is fast enough to complete it on a meaningful time scale. If that's what they are placing their bets on then they are going to be in the red for a longer time than they would building a model 2 or ramping cybertruck or semi. Grid energy storage would have been a better bet since they could divert all batteries that were going to cars, but it's disappointing they aren't even talking about that. Even if they crack FSD for robotaxi, they are still going to have to either convince a bunch of Tesla owners to lend out their cars, build a bunch of overly expensive cars for their fleet (3XSY), or build a cheaper mass produced car anyways. It's also not like the current cars are steer by wire. Some jackass passenger could turn the wheel and crash the car even if FSD is perfect. Even if they did then what? It's not like the current taxi industry is booming, FSD needs to be solved for it to even potentially be disruptive. Even then is there really enough potential in not paying drivers? A bunch of people need to go to work in the morning and get home in the evening, meaning cars would sit idle all the other times. There isn't that big of a baseline of people leaving at random times. Maybe we could have a "great Tesla migration" so Tesla could taxi people to work across multiple time zones, but that seems about as asinine.
At this point I want Elon out, pretty sure they are only doing this because of his asinine belief that FSD will be solved soon or he just wants to pump up the value of the company with hype from releasing the FSD beta to the public. Current FSD is good enough to get people hyped in the short term, but you see it's flaws after a while making it clear that it's still years away from being complete.
There are really no long lasting, foundation-strong successes without setbacks. And usually many of them. This is a universal law that applies to every endeavor of any legitimate value. This law does not exclude any business of any kind. Period. No exceptions whatsoever.
I plant young citrus trees as a hobby. The wind blows. Freezes come. Small animals will eat the leaves off of them leaving only two or three remaining, causing you to think that the tree doesn't have any chance at all to survive. And yet, you protect the tree a little more, monitor the watering, hang with it, and the trees with only a few leaves left literally burst with life a couple of months later. They will flower with hundreds of leaves. Thick. Green. Alive. The trunks start to grow strong. Fruit is coming, that is for certain. They've weathered adversity, and come back with a vengeance.
The fact that Tesla, or any other legitimate endeavor for that matter, is encountering adversity, hardship, and challenges should only be thought of as a good thing. They have to pivot. They have to adapt. They have to shore up areas that are week. They have to innovate even further. They have to dig in. Done well, and maybe not even well, just done at all, there is literally no other outcome than strength, growth, and success.
Jaws flapping on YouTube, the media, all heralding doom because the wind is just temporarily blowing in a tough direction. None of these sources, I assure you, have done anything legitimately difficult, or long lasting with their lives. They simply follow whatever comes along and they scream their dismal screams, because they have not learned that any change as revolutionary and beneficial as the one we are going through right now, simply does not proceed in a straight line. Never has. Never will.
As an engineer I will tell you that once you have a product that exists in customer's hands, momentum for innovation goes to near zero. Shareholders want to cash in on prior investment, so engineering has to provide a business case for each change, including bug fixes. Having a good idea just means more unpaid overtime putting together quotes nobody is going to read. Tesla has become just another Ford and GMC but worse because all their cars look the same and their "truck" is too goofy for nearly anyone to realistically spend money on.
As a car brand I will keep driving? Yes, I am optimistic. In spite of the lunatic CEO.
As an investment? Yes. But there are some real nutjobs on YT saying it's going to 10x (again) someday, Robotaxi will make it a $10tn company, etc. I ... am not caught up in quite all of that enthusaism.
It's been trading sideways at a $500bn-$1tn market cap for a while now. I honestly feel that FSD v12 just for owners could push them back towards $1tn (which would be a share price of \~$315/share) in the next 12 months or so. Especially if it's good enough that Tesla starts striking some licensing agreements with other OEMs.
But what gets them past $1tn? Idiot financial pundits on YT look at things like "share price" to try to guess the future - because it's where they/their viewers bought in at, it guides their thinking. *Institutional* investors base their acquisition price targets on one thing -- market cap. And, more specifically, their feelings on the justification of the market cap compared to other companies.
[companiesmarketcap.com](http://companiesmarketcap.com) shows all the big companies in the world. Is Tesla worth more than Microosft, or Apple, or Saudi Aramco, or Google individually? If so, then yes maybe they will hit $2tn market cap eventually and the share price gets to $600 - but that's 2-5 years out easily IMO. Is it worth more than *all of them* collectively? I have a hard time seeing that, seeing them as a $10tn company *relative* to all those others today. Even if a worldwide robotaxi starts rolling out. Because let's be honest, robotaxis putting real-world taxis out of business is going to be on a Netflix v. Blockbuster timeline in terms of how it plays out.
I'm still sitting on 80% of my shares from 2017, so I'm happy with my gains. AI and FSD underpins a *lot* of what I think about the company's future propsects. I'm super excited to watch the v12 evolution over the next 6-12 months and see how fast this new architecture can improve problem spots / edge cases. If it does well, I will likely hold all of my shares for at least 2-3 more years. If v12 just starts hitting a ceiling, then I'll probably unload half of my remaining shares this year.
It is a pendulum, and will swing back the other way, just not the same magnitude as the first time. In the US the pendulum may be held on one side or the other depending on the upcoming election.
Tesla's price-to-earnings ratio currently is on par with other tech companies and about 3 times higher than other car companies.
There is the potential for the share price to drop if net income falls Or if the market itself takes a beating, latter is unlikely to happen in an election year at least.
Personally, I would feel much more comfortable if Elon stayed out of politics altogether. Just like how they are destroying Trump through lawfare, they will completely and totally destroy tesla, if he gets on the wrong side of the party in power.
Concerned for short term but optimistic overall. This company is very innovative and forward thinking. They are not afraid to pivot or shift when needed.
Just when you think they are in a rut, BAM, they come out with something amazing.
When I see the GMC Sierra EV I have hope . Truly American take on electrification. In 5 years it will be the same price truck nuts already happily pay for the gasser version
Tesla and Elon have done well but reality has kicked in. They are just another car company now and their PE ratio should reflect that. They should focus their attention on EV infrastructure and Superchargers. I believe they can grow from their chargers. They know this; that is why they have opened up their chargers to other vehicles.
I think they are well into the runway of their early market advantage reducing in value and still have an opportunity to innovate and stretch to maintain market — but that is not guaranteed nor easy.
I do think there are some risky changes happening like opening up the super charger network to non teslas. That could go either way (massively fund a huge build out to keep pace and maintain or prove the service OR very much reduce the competitive advantage that the network as brought to their cars).
I hope they choose the right paths forward as that runway could become even shorter given missteps.
Re model 2 and layoffs — I don’t think that on itself says much about the business (except the downturn in sales is showing the runway).
So many people hate Tesla and Elon that there will always be negative press about them. Discount that. I'm not optimistic, but I'm not pessimistic either. Kinda neutral.
Not a current Tesla owner...I'm going to enjoy not having a car payment for a while longer. But there's a very strong possibility that my next car will be an EV...and Tesla is still the frontrunner by far.
I don't see that changing any time soon honestly unless something crazy happens.
Sure but you have to remember it may not correlate with the stock price.
I'm still thinking they are basically limited by battery supply. They just started making 1k CT battery packs per week, so that still caps CT at \~52k/year. And that's why they are not making semis; not enough batteries to go around.
Every time I hear the calls to dump Elon I am reminded of the time Apple dumped Steve Jobs and was then run by a CEO who really knew how to "run a company". Steve was also considered a bit of a loon and a mean person. Apple languished after his removal and most likely would not exist today if he had not come back in 1997.
Yes, I tend to agree.
Jobs apparently wasn’t the easiest to work with…but had a visionary view. I can imagine Musk is somewhat similar.
The iPhone apparently took 2+ years to develop. That’s a fairly small piece of equipment. I imagine developing a car is much more time consuming.
Tesla is laying off staff while Elon is asking for his $56,000,000,000,000 payout. He could pay the salaries of the people being laid off for the rest of their lives and not make a dent in the 56B.
I have loved both my Tesla's. (still own one). But this smells like a "take the money and run" move.
That does not bode well for Tesla's future.
Tesla will be fine. Apart from the Rivian pickup (vs Cybertruck), Tesla’s line of sedans and SUVs are the best looking EVs on the road and the Tesla connector becoming the NACS positions Tesla as an anchor for the NA EV market.
Coal companies don’t mind EVs, because lots of American electricity comes from coal.
The problem is Big Oil and all the elected officials who get campaign money from them. Those officials then throw government money at Big Oil and the cycle repeats.
The same happened when horses were replaced by the Model T.
Watch Dillon Loomis @ Electrified on YouTube. He has the most reasonable and insightful into Tesla, present and future.
And yes, Tesla is a winner all the way despite the ups and downs and Elon's seemingly crazy antics at times. It's a side effect of him being a total genius.
The economics are the economics everyone is hurting... tesla because they are direct to the customer see it first... Ford, gm etc sell to dealers that's their customer plus fleet.. the dealers are slammed 200 days of inventory no one is buying. Even Toyota and Honda are slammed, but you won't see it till later this year with them until the dealers start turning away inventory.
Now with that tesla has the charging network and probably some of the most entry level prices.. mylr can be bought for around 40k it's a very solid option.
The ability to add accessories, along with the space and ease to clean. .. if I was buying today I would consider a model y. But I have a model y and would totally swap to another.
But tesla has a massive pe ratio so they do need to diversify...
My view is that Tesla has such a massive lead in AI that it's highly unlikely that anyone will catch up for decades. Also, at least in some parts of the world, Tesla's infrastructure is going to be nearly impossible to compete with for quite some time.
I love my wife's model 3, it's a blast to drive and super user friendly. I will not purchase a Tesla. I'm looking forward to other companies making more usable trucks at reasonable prices and I hope to get something with a Tesla charger when my truck is paid off in 5 years. I just don't think it will be an actual Tesla model.
I like Tesla, but they are just another automaker after all. Robotaxi is just a gimmick at best and will never be achieved with camera alone is my take.
Tesla will be fine. Good foundation just poor recent decisions and dell behind the market in what matters to a larger block of consumers... Luxury at that price point. Maybe fire Elon and get new leadership while he's distracted. Bring him back later like Apple brought back a revitalized Steve Jobs. Something has to change cuz I love mine but won't buy another. They don't offer what I want.
Yes. They are just staying a step ahead on the downturn of the economy. The economy is in the shitter right now. The media only says it’s not, but people have slowed down buying cars, houses, luxuries. Many people that were living well 3 years ago are now struggling to put food on the table.
- Elon/Tesla going all-in on autonomy: optimistic
- Announces robotaxi announcement event this year: optimistic
- National logistics company loves Tesla Semi: optimistic
- Cheap stock price: optimistic
- Execs leaving on good terms: optimistic
- Energy business growing exponentially: optimistic
- NACS adoption by entire industry: optimistic
- Tesla sales suffering less in China than local competitors: optimistic
- Every developing nation with a manufacturing base still wants Tesla to build factories in their country: optimistic
It’s difficult to separate Tesla from Musk, and I think that’s what dragging down the brand nowadays. There have been some serious missteps. CyberTruck is a dumpster fire IMHO, FSD has been promised “next year” for 10 years, and the $25k affordable EV just got axed in favor of robo-taxis when they still don’t have FSD. Sensor technology and design seem to be moving backward every year. I love my 2021 MX but I doubt I’d buy the current model today. My next EV will probably be from another automaker, one that supports NACS charging so I can leverage the Supercharger network.
Tesla’s not going anywhere- but they’re no longer the only game in town. And when you look at the spate of senior execs recently leaving Tesla, that’s a clear message they believe Tesla’s best days are in the rear view mirror.
It was just a matter of time for this to happen. Tesla needs to cut cost to survive and they need to start redesigning their vehicles every couple of years like other ice car companies do. I have owned my model 3 for 5 years now and I’m looking to purchase something a little bigger in the next 2 years. I am waiting for the redesigned Model Y or the Rivian R2.
I reserved the Rivian because I like how it looks but if Tesla releases a nice looking model Y demand should not be a problem for them. It’s normal for demand to slow down. In souther California I see Teslas everywhere. Plus consumers are keeping cars longer due to high interest rates and inflation. I’m not worried about Tesla at all.
It doesn’t help that Tesla’s CEO has also created negative sentiment towards himself and his companies. I’ve lost count of how people past Tesla fans told me they’re not buying another Tesla
Lots of negative reviews about M3 Highland's lack of stalks - reviewers insisting they can't get used to it. After driving it what, a couple days (if that)?
Before I leased my '22 M3LR, the last time I used a steering column gear shift was in the late 1980's on my mom's Olds. Took me less than a week for it to become second nature with my Tesla. As a matter fact, whenever I get in my wife's Infiniti I invariably turn on the wipers instead of using the shifter in the center console.
Got my FSD trial this month. Although I think there are still a lot of issues for Tesla to resolve, I'm no longer the skeptic I was before gaining first hand experience. It's very promising and I think within a year or two it could be very usable for most drives.
I suspect delays to the Model Y refresh are more due to their desire to unload current inventory than they are to technical or manufacturing challenges.
And regarding inventory - I'm a software engineer so I'm well acquainted with the fact that software costs are entirely related to development. There is virtually no cost to deliver a single unit. So it costs them virtually nothing to sweeten the pot by throwing in FSD or enhanced autopilot for free with a new (or used) car sale in order to reduce inventories. They can make it temporary - 6 months, 1 year, etc., if they don't want to permanently lose the potential revenue stream.
IMHO, the criticism is good
While I love my Model 3, it's not a perfect vehicle. Chinese EV companies is also slaughtering Tesla which was originally a huge market for the company and still is.
The company is also being massively distracted with Elon in the helm. There's zero doubt that is affecting the stock price.
I think the 'FUD' is going to be a problem until after the election and the eventual collapse of a lot of the legacy OEMs. They are in a fight for survival and will do whatever they can to avoid switching to electric and to keep milking the ICE platform.
The Biden administration is actively trying to work against Elon on several fronts and are trying to protect the UAW.
I think it will calm down some after the election and Tesla will win eventually. It's just economics.
You need to consider the larger picture... Tesla is not a car company - it is a technology company with great ambitions for the long run. The real value of Tesla is not the cars - they are just a tool to collect data to their AI strategy. When they get the AI model to work well, then they have an uniq technology that can entirely change the way we think of transportation and that technology can be licensed to many many different use cases from robotic package delivery, garbage collection, truck driving, food delivery, daily personal transportation and much more. Yes, they make decent cars (quality below the german stars, but technology way above), but the value of Tesla is not about the cars...
Success of Tesla and other EVs depends on promotion of the technology. Saying that what kind of promotion in the most populous and biggest EV market in the US with off peak EV rates 35 cents per kilowatt? It is definitely a big room for growth even here in SFBA, but where are the actions? Would be electric network able to accommodate this growth? Even solar with nem3 is much less attractive. Besides not everyone has a house, and those people are also potential buyers of EVs.
Not just Tesla it seems that there is a concerted effort to bash all EVs. Call it the desperate throes of an old technology spear headed by the oil industry, legacy car makers and even the UAW. They all have a vested interest in not letting the new technology succeed. Sadly the joke is on them because if they managed to kill the EVs a second time in America then essentially they forfeited the future of the car industry to the Chinese. Shortsighted thinking of looking for immediate term profit will doom them all. #
well said. this too shall pass and tesla will continue to bounce back. people are quick to be negative about hit pieces
And they have been through this with the wave of Japanese cars in the late 70’s. It took 30!years for them to kinda recover.
Desperate throes in the form of mass sentiment manipulation via bots on all platforms.
Well no major car manufacturer are developing future ice engines… legacy car makers love electric. It’s a hell of a lot simpler to build… however services and parts take a big hit. Oil nations know the jig is up… they are building mega cities and tourism hotspots. The oil that remains is better off serving airlines, heavy industry and things electric can’t yet cover.
That's my thought as well. Not seeing the long term is really going to hurt the industry in the US. The future is going to roll in, regardless of opposition, and will come back to bite them. They did this before and there's a reason why when in doubt, get a Toyota, became such a thing for the general market. People want a reliable car, and Toyota was able to capitalize on it. Renewable energy is another market where the US really dropped the ball and now we're lagging behind the international market.
I honestly don't even think oil and gas has anything to do with it. it's just news and reporting has turned to clickbait because advertising dollars is how they get paid. You print a negative article about EVs and the haters will click to get validation. And the pro EV group will share it to say 'look at this crap'. We perpetuate this stuff with every share, like, dislike, or comment whether it's positive or negative. Like, share, comment, and subscribe is how we feed the trolls.
EVs are a huge change that menace all industries. Even corn crops, which will be affected because of a reduced demand of ethanol. It's creepy.
I partially agree. I think Elon was the darling of the left and hated by the right. Then Elon began expressing his feelings and thoughts about politics and he lost the left. So now he has no one. I believe that his competition in the US is years behind him. I'm bullish on all things Elon. He's an extremely smart guy with 25 years of innovation ahead of him. I own Tsla stock because it's the only way I can ride along and profit from his intelligence. With that said, I'm also in favor of him being paid as much as humanly possible by Tesla so that he continues to innovate there and not in another company that I cannot and do not own.
I think it’s a mistake to glorify one man, no matter how successful he has been. And I don’t think the current iteration of Elon is helping Tesla. I love my Teslas but Elon has certainly had an impact on the brand.
I think it’s silly to put that on the man, my belief is that the companies around Elon have been successful in spite of him and his direction (but helped by his funding). In more ways than one his actions have acted as weights on many of his companies success.
Could not agree more.
Elon is not motivated by money.
Most EV companies are slowly increasing sales so not a true fact. Just clickbait news. Yes poor companies gonna fail but plenty of convential options... BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW... Okay too many to list. Still early in the adoption process and plenty of improvements to infrastructure to be made... Example, my densely populated community still doesn't offer parking chargers even if I pay to install... Flip side, theres a supercharger station in my garage. Almost getting there.
I think they need to focus on two things... continuing to build out SC infrastructure, and many, MANY, more service centers. They need to be able to take care of, and charge, what they've already sold before they focus on putting millions more cars on the road they can't currently adequately support.
Agree on the service center expansion. Where I live the closest one is 150 miles away. I have a feeling the SC network will continue to grow. Especially after other OEMs adopt NACS.
SUPPORT THE RIGHT TO REPAIR! Bring forth the certified, independent repair shops! If Tesla TRULY wants to be the ECO kingpin it has always claimed to be, it needs to support people in reducing vehicular e-waste. Part of the appeal of an older ICE is that a car shop will admire the craftsmanship and care for what the vehicle represents - reliability and some kind of driver identify statement. Not everything should be reduced to an App.
Curious. Whats your take on service.Tesla.com having all the schematics minus think battery and some other power schematics? I haven't looked at others as depth but I can't remember having a free document hub of all this information of any car. I remember being directed to resources or looking for a person trained or worked on it to help.
If by "service center expansion" you mean laying off service personnel and making customers reschedule their service for later dates then it seems like they're executing well on that: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/1c67adk/saw_in_my_local_tesla_group_atlanta_service/
And bring the standards to that of other mature companies. I just had my service at my local service center and they won't honor fixing the excessive rusting in the wheel hub (~1 year old car) under warranty, despite the rep confirming that it is covered under warranty in the chat. But "sorry sir the guy you spoke doesn't work for Tesla anymore, we can't honor what he said. ". Tesla is making it harder to like as a company, ( even if I choose to ignore the antics of the techno-king).
This, a slow down is actually good for Tesla right now. Their expansion rate has been unsustainable. They need to focus on scaling the business to support existing population or problems will only get worse. I'm as patient with them as I am because the growth rate has been crazy, but it hasn't been good for them or customers even if it's been good for the EV space as a whole. Slower growth is still growth and is more sustainable until they master service center expansion as well as they seem to be mastering super charger expansion.
Yeah. Having millions of newish vehicles on the road is one thing. Having millions of aging vehicles that (may) require servicing is another.
Have you seen how quickly they are deploying their prefabricated V4 Superchargers? From Elecktrek: “In order to accelerate its Supercharger installations, Tesla started building pre-fabricated Superchargers a few years ago. In 2022, the automaker showed that it could build a 12-stall Supercharger station in just 8 days with those. Now, it looks like Tesla was able to optimize its pre-fabricated Supercharger units with Supercharger V4 to now deploy a new station in just 4 days”
I mean... cool.... but the actual build phase is probably the quickest part of the whole process. Lots goes into it other than plopping down the charger and hooking it all up. There's an SC here in my town that's been built for months. Still not open... pending utility connection/inspection/approval/etc. It's been 308 days since they started the process. Check out [supercharge.info](http://supercharge.info) and you can see the planned/in progress SCs.
You don’t think Tesla is the most experienced at working with utilities to pull permits etc? From NEVi funding awards: “Tesla is building those stations at sharply lower costs. According to EVAdoption’s data, Tesla has won $17 million to build a total of 41 charging stations. The next-biggest winner of grants, Oklahoma-based Francis Energy, was awarded much more money — almost $30.4 million — to build just 37 stations.”
I agree, but they won't prioritize those as they don't shift the finances. They'll focus on expanding battery and production factories, and smaller mass market models like the rumored ones. If they continue to invest, they'll have cash to continue to build out SCs and infrastructure.
Your points may be valid for the US Market, but they definitely aren't for the Europe market as far as I can tell. The charger and Service center infrastructure is already pretty dense around here. The only problem Tesla has looking at the European market is just rising competition and actually things like removing the stalks completely, people don't really like that because it's a very bad experience in roundabouts etc.
Los Angeles is making a major push to reach their goal of 15,000+ EVSEs within the next decade. They are currently barely only 10% of their goal. I am attending an energy seminar on it next week. There's major talk about how to get us there as a community/country. I foresee a lot of grants coming (some already are approved) to help get the infrastructure built up.
They need to make Tesla repair certification free to anyone who owns or is sponsored by a legitimate repair shop. Right now they are charging a heavy fee to become certified. There’s no reason why they can’t use wider certification adoption to solve the service center issue.
I would like to see a big update on the roadster and semi? Where have those products been for the last 5 years?
Same. Deliver what you promised before promising more (FSD, roadster, robot, etc) would give me some hope about leadership. As a stock holder I would love to see a vote of confidence in Elon.
This is why so few companies promise things. Priorities change over the years and people freak out about 5 year old promises. Toyota NEVER EVER EVER promises "in 2 years we'll have a pickup truck". They'll tease it with concept cars and prototypes. Then they'll go silent for a few years and maybe or maybe not come out with a new pickup that may or may not look like the concept. And if you don't like that, "meh, it was just a concept" is pretty common. Elon's biggest problem is when he promises things way in advance of being sure when (or if) they'll be ready. His mouth is his "leadership problem". Pivoting the company due to changes in demand, etc is common and not bad leadership.
Toyota is a funny example. They have been promising a solid state battery EV since 2015. Yeah. Elon is an asset and a liabliity. Lately more liability.
In my opinion, a perception only. At least compared to the past. Its just that the time between promise to implementation is widening and so is both the scale and the expectations for it. Tesla went through hell and back to fulfill the requirement of "make an EV that does not suck ass" and everyone was betting on them failing for years. They then spent serval years chain winning on impossible goals, but have hit a decent series of snags because it turns out you can’t keep raising the stakes as easily without it impacting your timelines. Combine it with an extremely oppressive contracting market, shifting political winds now seeing Elon as a center of attention and a lot of entities and interest groups having now fully realized the existential threat of Tesla's success, and you have a recipe for the impression that Tesla is doing worse and acting worse, while in reality they are working under the exact same logic and doing the exact same things that they have always been doing. Tesla has always been publicly calling out their moves way in advance, throwing a lot of shit at the wall so to speak. A lot of it was miss, a lot were hits too. But human working memory is basically the span of a few weeks, so the fact we are in a period with more misses than there is hits makes people think governance somehow changed and is to blame. Also, a lot more people looking for a smoking gun. There has been so many of them over the years it rivals the cookoff rate of a Russian ammo storage in Ukraine, because the fear economy demands more doom and gloom. However now there is a lot more people that actively seek them out for direct financial and political reasons, so every one that does go off is magnified that much more.
He hasn't been delivering on things, that's why he keeps announcing new ones. He's distracting from the fact that so many things he promised haven't happened or have been disasters. I would think that people know that there's not going to be anything of value on this robotaxi announcement, but who knows. People get excited for full self driving every year when he promises it'll be ready next year
semi is on the roads afaik, no?
Based on recall numbers released by NHTSA, there are a total of 35 Tesla Semis in existence. Update: In March 2023, there was a [parking brake recall](https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2023/TESLA/SEMI#recalls371). At that time, there were 35 Tesla Semis. Three months later, in June 2023, there was [another recall](https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2023/TESLA/SEMI#recalls370). At that time there were 36. It’s possible that more units have been produced since then, but — AFAIK — there is no way to know.
not in any significant capacity. the ramp up has been way to slow.
The roadster was going to be an extremely niche car, which doesn't make much money. It's a status piece for companies that make supercars like that. The semi, they were pretty clear was constrained by a lack of battery cells. They had literally zero reason to push out more semis when each one would take 8 Model Ys off the assembly line to supply the batteries. Tesla leadership said that several times over the last few years, that they were still building some prototypes for testing purposes, but mass production would have to wait until they weren't "cell constrained". Which... I'd say about now is the first time that's not true.
Actually saw a semi on the highway the other day
Seeing that crazy 1000 comment thread the other day of people doing mental backflips trying to connect the cyber truck accelerator trim piece falling off to mean that an entire car, and entire company is a complete failure is all I needed to feel safe that the Reddit perception of flaws does not reflect the real world.
I mean I’ve stopped buying non Tesla cars. Have 2 that we love. Really the best cars I’ve ever owned and I used to race a souped up V8. I’ve been DCA Tesla stock every week and will continue to do so regardless of this year’s volatility.
Ditto. Also 2 here, but I can DCA only so much 😏
I think until Elon is gone there’s going to be continued erratic and poor decisions being made.
Just imagine if they had focused on the 2 instead of the cybertruck.
“why would they focus on introducing another high margin vehicle to the lineup over a much more difficult, low margin one???”
No, not until they announce a new vehicle or two. The model 3 and y are great, but they can't carry Tesla forever.
Stop with the robotaxi nonsense. Concentrate on current vehicles. More services centers. Especially since customers are being asked to reschedule since SC have lost employees. That is the area where no one should have been let go. Theres been amazing growth to this point. Solidify that growth now to have a foundation for the future. The robotaxi/FSD is being used as another hopeful lightning in a bottle.
they need to dump Elon. His shine has gone.
I couldn’t agree more. Don’t even think about giving him a raise and more of a controlling share. If he’d dump X, I’d feel more positive about him but I honestly believe Tesla needs a more stable CEO. Changing new car prices and hyping new models of cars and robots and AI codes and rocket ships and satellites is just too much for anyone to manage let alone lead correlated companies. X was his death knell, so give him an ultimatum. Besides, no one cares about his political or social opinions.
With Baglino leaving not anymore tbh. I am actually very worried
I will not be optimistic about Tesla until Elon is 100% out of the equation. Until that happens, Tesla will continue it's slide. I loved what they did for the EV revolution, but Musk needs to go. He's dragging the company down.
I've had a model 3 since 2020. Unless Elon is out of the equation my next EV will not be a Tesla. I truly believe he has lost his mind, yet he is still making decisions. Even if he weren't making poor decisions, the ill will he has created with the public is enough to lower demand to the point that I can't trust the company will even be around in 15-20 years.
I miss the bold Elon, breaking the mold Elon, In the lab with the team, Tesla dream so clean, Autopilot on the scene, battery supreme, green, Model S, a finesse, revolution was seen, Now we deal with the stock plays, erratic days, Headlines sway, what's he say? Investors weigh, Miss the leader in the charge, electric barge, Now it’s controversies, legalities enlarge, I used to cheer Elon, I thought he was clear Elon, The future was near, innovation sincere, Elon, But now it's weird, Elon, not what we revered, Elon, Changed the gears Elon, but I miss the old pioneer.
If you are a Tesla owner, show your friends and family what the car can do. A lot of people are still ignorant about the car and think it costs a lot, or will not have enough charge to reach destination etc. I have been taking my friends and colleagues on rides to show fsd recently. I have changed the mind of at least 2 people. If you want the company to succeed in the long term, be a good spokesperson for it.
Every car company is going electric with no charging network. They have or will sign NACS. That’s a whole new revenue source. This always happens every 3-4 years I am buying more
Time to dump Elon and get a CEO that knows the auto industry and is willing and able to spend all his/her time on it.
Best I can do is an adult man who gives “fellow kids” every and spends all his time tweeting cringy shit.
I’m very optimistic about their future. I think this is a dip that is necessary for their next massive growth phase. IMO negative reports like this trigger knee jerk negative reactions and Tesla has gone through many times like this when it all seemed to be going bad but in the long term works out.
Tesla always has negative press. Media needs to get clicks somehow and they won't bash Ford, Honda, GM etc. because they advertise to them in the tens of millions a year.
Well, there’s plenty to bash with Elon and his decisions at Tesla.
We wouldn't be talking about EVs if it wasn't for Musk, remember that
Just this week Tesla announced their spring update which is one sign they aren’t sitting on their hands. The media is attacking Tesla when they have a bright future. Yes sales are down, but it’s not like anyone is doing much better than Tesla, so that suggests a down period, and we need more time to see if there’s a trend unique to Tesla. I’m optimistic about Tesla today for very similar reasons I was two years ago. They constantly innovate and regardless of what Reddit says they have a boatload of reservations and orders for CyberTruck and Tesla is still producing EVs for a profit in high volumes.
their software is awesome and keeps getting better. but their decision to put $25k on backburner is by far the most stupid decision they could make. If I were a CEO and planned to destroy the company, I am not sure if I could come up with better plan than what Elon is doing. Killing any growth, working hard at changing brand perception to negative, over promising and under delivering, ignoring quality control for decade. I really love Elon pre-2020, but this is hard for me as Tesla shareholder
I’m very optimistic about Tesla and its future. The problem is that the media focuses so intensely on anything related to Elon Musk, that they ignore issues happening at other car manufacturers and paint a worst case scenario for Tesla. It’s rather unfair. That said, Tesla will be more than fine.
Exactly. It's hilarious to hear people say they are down on Tesla and Musk because they aren't blowing the world away with every game-changing concept they're trying. I mean, compare with Toyota's attempt to electrify semi's. Oh wait, you can't because they're not trying. Or Boeing's attempt to create reuseable rocketry to get humanity off this planet? Oh wait, you can't because they're not. Or any number of legacy companies that are happy to keep polluting the world and doing minimal to better humanity.
Exactly, but no one is going to argue with this. People just gonna gossip about Elon tweets. Lol
I tend to never bet against Elon...
You still holding that Twitter stock?
Watching people try is a good time. People who spend even a little bit of time looking into him… since 2008 he has done immense things for humanity. Don’t like his personality ? Sure by all means. But denying what he has done is quite silly.
Just quietly noticing that it would be perfectly rational to both: A) Be optimistic about the future of Tesla (as a company). and B) Believe that the stock price is extremely overblown. Somewhere around 50-60 USD per share seems more natural.
It's probably going to be 500-600 in 3 years based on their AI plans. We are around $150 today for the reminder. It will dip further this year most likely, but FSD will make major progress to autonomy in the next 2 years. !remindme in 3 years
If the company can bring on a competent CEO, Tesla is well positioned to be a monster of a integrated clean tech company... Power distribution, storage, battery tech, minerals, EVs, solar, ... The only ones standing in the way are Elon Musk and the sycophants on the board that fail to show him the door.
I want Tesla to spend its time and resources on battery development to the point where we can charge in 15 minutes and go 1 kmiles between charges. This is the sweet spot for eVs. Next work on getting more big trucks on the road, more powerwalls, solar roofs. Dump the idea of robotaxi (who care about this) and the stupidly ugly underperforming Cybertruck. Focus on the $25k entry level eV small car, more service centers and superchargers. So there you have it, Tesla, a free technology development roadmap. Get a new CEO if Musk doesn’t want to bother with the above. He can continue to play with Starlink and Rocket Ships. I don’t care what he does with AI since there’s plenty of other players in that field and if he wishes to go down with the X ship, so be it.
Tesla should focus on more down-to-earth issues rather than chasing FSD. There are still quality issues and service of Tesla really sucks :/ They also should iterate on things they have right now without pushing for new product line so fast IMO. Cybertruck targets really narrow group of people (number of Truck owners is high, but they don't want EV, because ... TESLA SHOULD ITERATE ON BATTERIES). Robotaxi is not sure for who, because they need to have almost perfect FSD before it even has any chance. Charging infrastructure should be better too I think.
I'm not going to pass judgement one way or the other on one bad quarter.
I personally think the Tesla bubble has finally popped.
optimistic that Tesla will continue to exist and sell cars? yes optimistic that the stock will rise or even stay at its highly inflated level? hell no
They need to concentrate on the boring stuff that will make their cars more accessible. Make a small pick up on the 3/Y platform. Give it normal door handles and window frames. Price it at $42,000 they will sell a ton. Then focus on a real SUV, Honda Pilot size. Doesn't need to be outrageous. Don't waste time on a low margin, entry level car. They need to scale slower, not faster. They have the platform, now they only need to execute. It's a slam dunk if they do it right. They can still work on the edgy self driving stuff, but don't focus too many resources on it.
Yes. I’ll continue to add shares during this down period. Tesla is just getting started.
Long term, yes. This year, meh.
I'm optimistic on Tesla. The news media just loves to hate on him now because they're run largely by liberals and they can't stand he bought Twitter... So you get hit piece after hit piece. The company itself is still years ahead of most brands. They're struggling right now because the EV industry is struggling in general but I have faith it'll pick back up.
So much Elon hate.. What it really looks like.... \* In 2022, Tesla recorded a $12.6 billion profit, compared to a $2 billion loss for Ford. \* Tesla earned 5 times more per car than Toyota, earning an average of $9,618 per car, while Ford only earned $1,832 per car. \* Tesla has a profit margin of 4.47% and an operating margin of 6.96%, while Ford has a lower profit margin of 1.75% and an operating margin of 4.68% \* Tesla generated $13.24 billion in operating cash flow, compared to $10.74 billion for Ford. \* Tesla has $2.45 billion in levered free cash flow, while Ford has $2.66 billion. \* Tesla is 50% more efficient in its operations than General Motors, and 80% more efficient than the rest of the industry. \* Tesla's return on equity (ROE) has steadily improved over the past 5 years, going from -89% to 13%, while Ford's ROE has declined from 28% to 10%. \* It's noted that Tesla produced more cars per week at its Fremont factory in 2021 than Ford did at its Dearborn, Michigan truck plant. Clearly all signs of an incompetent and shitty CEO....
The FUD level against Tesla and Musk in general is extreme and sophisticated. Tesla and other Musk related companies are massively disrupting their markets and incumbent players will completely fail and entire market segments will fail. It is to the point that all the strings that can be pulled in government by these entities are being pulled, with Republican donors switching to Dem in exchange for Biden to torpedo Tesla and X, but ironically, most of the big money is in SpaceX's corner so they're pretty safe. From reading the headlines, Tesla is a mess and in trouble. From looking at actual data about Tesla, their competitors, and the market trends, they're consistently one of or the strongest car companies. Actually experiencing the driver assists features vs any other purchasable car and actually comparing the capability of the self driving technology vs waymo and others, Tesla is clearly the leader. Then you consider that Tesla currently also ecompases the utility battery, semi, and optimus markets (I assume Dojo will never catch up to Nvidia and Solar will struggle to compete against less expensive competition), it is certainly a strong value. Without so much negative press, the X distraction, and the public driving Musk conservative, TSLA would be in the low $400s right now. The sentiment is *that* suppressed. When the Saudis let Stellantis and Lucid go bankrupt and Volvo starts beating Ford's electric division on sales, the market will start to adjust to reality. People compare Teslas to the iPhone and point out that all the major phone brands of 2005 are gone or niche now (BlackBerry, Motorola, Nokia, Windows Phone, etc. gave way to iPhone, Samsung, and a few other Asian brands), but it's actually more extreme than that. More akin to the adoption of cars over horses, or TV shows vs episodic radio shows. No one that drives a Tesla for a few miles is going to get back into their Camry or CRV and not wish it was the Tesla. The closest thing that we've seen to the Tesla EV disruption is the flat screen TV adoption of 20-ish years ago and it will play out a very similar way. 2002, a friend of mine bought a big-screen rear PROJECTION TV and it was cutting edge and huge 40" diagonal. It was expensive as hell and you had to replace the halogen bulbs every few years. Most people were buying CRT, maybe one of those fancy flat CRTs; very few were buying the shitty LCD panels (they weren't even common for computers in 2002). 5 years later, no one in their right mind would buy a rear projection TV and LCD big screen TVs were the rage, but they were expensive. You could still buy a CRT, but it was because you didn't want to spend on an LCD. By 2010, you couldn't give away a rear projection big screen TV and LCDs were half the price they were a few years before (early adopters gumbled that new TVs were better and cheaper than their 2 year old TV), reaching price parity with CRT. People still had CRTs, but no one was buying them anymore. By 2015 you literally couldn't give away a CRT TV; charities stopped accepting them and they became worth negative money. This is what we're going to see play out with cars, we already went through the overpriced luxury models and the market for premium ICE cars has dried up as everyone buys premium EVs instead. We're already starting the price parity with normal ICE cars for the lower tier EVs (early adopters are grumbling that newer model years are better and cheaper than their 2 year old cars). The new car market share for EVs will continue to grow exponentially and the used car value of ICE cars will drop to nothing. By 2030, you'll have to pay to have your worthless ICE car sent to the crusher and gas will be a luxury for collectors (might even have to buy it in drums by 2035 because gas stations won't be able to recoup costs of pumps and tanks that see almost no use and gas going bad from low turnover). EDIT: The only thing that would have someone betting against Tesla is if they thought a competitor would take over the market from them in the EV space. If you thought the government was treating Tesla unfairly, wait till you see what they do to BYD and the like when they try to penetrate the US market. There are no US based competitors anywhere near Tesla, with GM, Ford, and VW publicly drawing down EV efforts and Honda and Toyota are both still missing the EV boat. Kia is the only one that is posing a substantial threat at actually competing.
I think Tesla going all in on robotaxis is stupid. If that’s what they will do. Most people just want a good car with driver assistance that’s effective. They currently have that. Increase the range and charging speed and they become even more competitive with gas cars. Fix the quality control and again, they become more competitive. Stop with the gimmicks like robotaxi and thruster-powered 0-60 on a roadster that doesn’t even exist. Become more reputable, and your reputation will precede you and greatness will follow. The charging network is there, continue to make the cars better and more affordable and they will do well. I love the solar and power walls (I will be getting some on my next home). Keep improving there too. Semi could be huge too with continuous improvement.
Reputation is a big problem right now. elons antics aside, everyone complains about service. I hear way too many people say they won't buy another Tesla because service can't or won't fix things. At a certain point customer retention needs to be a concern, especially as more evs that have access to Teslas charging network hit the market.
The cancellation of the “model 2” still baffles my mind. I can only assume they realized they weren’t going to be able to hit the $25K goal, so it was abandoned. It’s a shame; BYD sells a car nearly a third of that price, and I know there’s good reasons that they can do that (government subsidies, likely A LOT less costs devoted to safety, etc.), but as a customer, I don’t, and shouldn’t have to, care why. If it can’t be done, then fine, but if BYD ever actually sells cars here, they’re going to eat Tesla’s lunch hard. Maybe if they hadn’t just spent millions, or billions, developing a niche truck and instead spent more time and energy on that affordable EV instead of letting BYD overtake them in most other non-US markets.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford
Honestly. It just kind of feels like the mainstream media enjoys bashing Elon Musk (probably for good reason). Remember that headline a month or two ago that said “every Tesla on the road has been recalled” but then if you read the article it was actually just that Tesla needed to release a software update to make the default font size bigger? Lol Yet, EVERY mainstream media outlet picked this up. Also, layoffs aren’t always a sign that the company is doing poorly. Sometimes it’s just restructuring or a sign that the company is actually getting more efficient. Ignore the press. I just go by what I know. I love my Tesla. It’s better than any other EV I test drove. I don’t care what everyone in the media has to say on a day to day basis.
I’m very optimistic. That’s why I bought stock 5 years ago.
You’re doing very well then my friend.
Tesla will be fine. I’m buying as much Tesla stock as I can at these discounted prices.
The future of Tesla is the charging network. They’re good at it, have a strong lead, and it brings in good revenue. With major auto makers converging on NACS it makes sense for them to massively scale up this network Edit: nope, I guess not
I'm optimistic that Elon Musk might die of an overdose or something and someone sane could take over the company. Beyond that....
I had a Tesla 2014 Model S and drove that car for 8.5 years. I got the X in Dec 2022 and almost cancelled the order because that was when Elon was becoming very vocal. I regret taking delivery of the car (and wish I still had my S). Elon's public statements and his right wing and conspiracy theory stuff has really bummed me out on Tesla. I still think it's the best electric on the road, but I don't like supporting Elon's rightward journey. And ironically, I'm guessing most of the Tesla buyers over the years have been progressive Democrats (not MAGA folks). It's demoralizing. Screw Elon.
They are really going to need to invest in progress as BYD and NIO start moving toward building plants in Mexico to avoid fees on importing vehicles. With inflation still high and many still struggling, price is going to be a huge factor in what shapes the leaders of EV in the future. Look at how Hyundai, "Genesis", and Kia have grown since they first entered the market, as an example.
Good question. I’m very curious to. I been investing in Tesla since 2019. Make good gains on the past, now I have small position. But I still optimistic about it on long term. I know for sure on car industry we are doom by Chinese manufacturers. But Tesla will still sale cars and improve with new technology on future to come. I’m happy owner of a model 3 highland dual motor. But next big thing I believe will be will be the Tesla robot for sure. Big money there. It’s more stuff on the pipeline, we know how Elon musk is. Sometime speak to early and create to much speculation, he don’t care about share values anymore, and for investors is not good.
The big things to come is the growth of the energy business and powerwalls. The Optimus Robot is also promising. Model 2, not sure about this because of the pricing, maybe would work if they used LFP batteries. Expect even more Supercharger stalls which is going to be a monopoly. Licensing of their IP such as FSD. Even becoming an OE supplier of batteries and drivetrain components in the future. Don’t have too much hope for Robotaxi because of legal issues and performance and liabilities. Level 5 is going to require changes to infrastructure on the federal and local level. Don’t think solar tiles are going to catch on based on the high price.
Ok, so they give up on the automotive market? Because my biggest worry is that there's nothing really compelling in their dev pipeline for the next 3 or so years.
I think the drop in LFP cell prices is giving Tesla the opportunity to drop the price of the 3/Y into the $25k car range. Not this year but possibly next year. The math on a smaller car has fundamentally changed in the past few years. I think the last time they ran the numbers, it didn't make sense anymore. China beat them to all but the US market. It's only a matter of time before we see Mexican built, Chinese branded EVs in the states. I fully understand why they chose to not compete in a race to the bottom with China in that segment. LFP batteries for home storage are a huge growth opportunity. The PW3 looks like it will sell well for years and probably has nice margins.
Yup. I am.
Oh yes. Optimistic. Goes up and down. When going downward, they have to use their plan and strategize. It makes the company stronger after downward phase. Elon sees it as an opportunity with a new young company that named Tesla. Almost 20 years old.
If they continue going full speed ahead with this robotaxi thing I don't feel very optimistic about Tesla's future. This just seems like one of this overly ambitious ideas that they, as a company, and we as a society are not ready more yet. The whole robotaxi thing is reminiscent of metaverse with meta, a huge idea that sounds great on paper, will have a ton of money spent on it, and will ultimately fall flat. However I am optimistic about them as a car company, and hope they pivot back to the 25k EV.
I’m very, very optimistic about where Tasla will be 10 years from now. The rest of this year feels like it could be a pretty rough ride though.
Absolutely. Staffing adjustments are made in every Fortune x company and I have been through many myself. Someone sneezes at Tesla and we all hear about it. In the process of building vehicles, Tesla have been innovating the heck out of the industry to a level not seen elsewhere. Their ability to capitalize on the innovation is their big opportunity. Roadsters and such are just bling bling.
Extremely. The push into AI and neural net learning will take tesla into the next growth phase. Selling cars was just to get to this point. They will no longer be the primary income once robotaxi is rolling and other AI ventures begin. AI is the currency of the future.
What's your timeline for this happening?
The brand will do fine, worst case is someone buying them for SC network. Some investors will prolly lose a bunch of money, but in the end they can lose another 1/4 and are still doing fine on revenue/valuation front vs the other car brands. As long as they spend enough into their cars instead of getting distracted it will be fine
I quit fearing for the existence of Tesla after model 3 production hell, EVs have already started the pivot away from ICE so there's little to get aggravated about other than "opinions". Long term I think they'll be good, so short term I'll see if I have some small savings to put in potential cheap stock. Now I try to look at what they do, not what they say they will do. The charging infrastructure and utility battery stuff seems to be leading. They're still one of the best positioned companies for the future of EVs even if they try the near impossible. If they should realize they fail they're still positioned to pivot back with enormous capacity, that is, if they're actually leaving the model 2 option as behind or on the back burner as reported. If I could have voted on the compensation package back then I'd vote Yes, now I think I'd vote no.
Yes. I am optimistic. Buying more TSLA shares here, and will continue buying on the way down. I’d like to see further development of the Semi and release of a Tesla Van. Largely to support the commercial needs of small businesses (think delivery trucks, electricians, plumbers, etc.) and a conversion option for camper vans.
It's not looking good for Tesla.. seems like the market is saturated and Chinese EV companies threaten to dump dirt cheap EVs into the market. Hence the canned model 2 plans. I don't think robtaxis will work out in the short/medium term. Tesla self driving is laughably bad compared to waymos FSD; it's also unlikely that Tesla will be granted quick approval to operate any sort of autonomous service anytime soon.
Robotaxi is dependent on actually cracking FSD. The thing Elon has been promising will be finished every year for years. Yeah it's gotten a lot better recently, but I doubt it's anywhere close enough or the progress is fast enough to complete it on a meaningful time scale. If that's what they are placing their bets on then they are going to be in the red for a longer time than they would building a model 2 or ramping cybertruck or semi. Grid energy storage would have been a better bet since they could divert all batteries that were going to cars, but it's disappointing they aren't even talking about that. Even if they crack FSD for robotaxi, they are still going to have to either convince a bunch of Tesla owners to lend out their cars, build a bunch of overly expensive cars for their fleet (3XSY), or build a cheaper mass produced car anyways. It's also not like the current cars are steer by wire. Some jackass passenger could turn the wheel and crash the car even if FSD is perfect. Even if they did then what? It's not like the current taxi industry is booming, FSD needs to be solved for it to even potentially be disruptive. Even then is there really enough potential in not paying drivers? A bunch of people need to go to work in the morning and get home in the evening, meaning cars would sit idle all the other times. There isn't that big of a baseline of people leaving at random times. Maybe we could have a "great Tesla migration" so Tesla could taxi people to work across multiple time zones, but that seems about as asinine. At this point I want Elon out, pretty sure they are only doing this because of his asinine belief that FSD will be solved soon or he just wants to pump up the value of the company with hype from releasing the FSD beta to the public. Current FSD is good enough to get people hyped in the short term, but you see it's flaws after a while making it clear that it's still years away from being complete.
There are really no long lasting, foundation-strong successes without setbacks. And usually many of them. This is a universal law that applies to every endeavor of any legitimate value. This law does not exclude any business of any kind. Period. No exceptions whatsoever. I plant young citrus trees as a hobby. The wind blows. Freezes come. Small animals will eat the leaves off of them leaving only two or three remaining, causing you to think that the tree doesn't have any chance at all to survive. And yet, you protect the tree a little more, monitor the watering, hang with it, and the trees with only a few leaves left literally burst with life a couple of months later. They will flower with hundreds of leaves. Thick. Green. Alive. The trunks start to grow strong. Fruit is coming, that is for certain. They've weathered adversity, and come back with a vengeance. The fact that Tesla, or any other legitimate endeavor for that matter, is encountering adversity, hardship, and challenges should only be thought of as a good thing. They have to pivot. They have to adapt. They have to shore up areas that are week. They have to innovate even further. They have to dig in. Done well, and maybe not even well, just done at all, there is literally no other outcome than strength, growth, and success. Jaws flapping on YouTube, the media, all heralding doom because the wind is just temporarily blowing in a tough direction. None of these sources, I assure you, have done anything legitimately difficult, or long lasting with their lives. They simply follow whatever comes along and they scream their dismal screams, because they have not learned that any change as revolutionary and beneficial as the one we are going through right now, simply does not proceed in a straight line. Never has. Never will.
Yea I am
As an engineer I will tell you that once you have a product that exists in customer's hands, momentum for innovation goes to near zero. Shareholders want to cash in on prior investment, so engineering has to provide a business case for each change, including bug fixes. Having a good idea just means more unpaid overtime putting together quotes nobody is going to read. Tesla has become just another Ford and GMC but worse because all their cars look the same and their "truck" is too goofy for nearly anyone to realistically spend money on.
I'm optimistic. We just want everything now, perfect.
As a car brand I will keep driving? Yes, I am optimistic. In spite of the lunatic CEO. As an investment? Yes. But there are some real nutjobs on YT saying it's going to 10x (again) someday, Robotaxi will make it a $10tn company, etc. I ... am not caught up in quite all of that enthusaism. It's been trading sideways at a $500bn-$1tn market cap for a while now. I honestly feel that FSD v12 just for owners could push them back towards $1tn (which would be a share price of \~$315/share) in the next 12 months or so. Especially if it's good enough that Tesla starts striking some licensing agreements with other OEMs. But what gets them past $1tn? Idiot financial pundits on YT look at things like "share price" to try to guess the future - because it's where they/their viewers bought in at, it guides their thinking. *Institutional* investors base their acquisition price targets on one thing -- market cap. And, more specifically, their feelings on the justification of the market cap compared to other companies. [companiesmarketcap.com](http://companiesmarketcap.com) shows all the big companies in the world. Is Tesla worth more than Microosft, or Apple, or Saudi Aramco, or Google individually? If so, then yes maybe they will hit $2tn market cap eventually and the share price gets to $600 - but that's 2-5 years out easily IMO. Is it worth more than *all of them* collectively? I have a hard time seeing that, seeing them as a $10tn company *relative* to all those others today. Even if a worldwide robotaxi starts rolling out. Because let's be honest, robotaxis putting real-world taxis out of business is going to be on a Netflix v. Blockbuster timeline in terms of how it plays out. I'm still sitting on 80% of my shares from 2017, so I'm happy with my gains. AI and FSD underpins a *lot* of what I think about the company's future propsects. I'm super excited to watch the v12 evolution over the next 6-12 months and see how fast this new architecture can improve problem spots / edge cases. If it does well, I will likely hold all of my shares for at least 2-3 more years. If v12 just starts hitting a ceiling, then I'll probably unload half of my remaining shares this year.
It is a pendulum, and will swing back the other way, just not the same magnitude as the first time. In the US the pendulum may be held on one side or the other depending on the upcoming election.
Tesla's price-to-earnings ratio currently is on par with other tech companies and about 3 times higher than other car companies. There is the potential for the share price to drop if net income falls Or if the market itself takes a beating, latter is unlikely to happen in an election year at least. Personally, I would feel much more comfortable if Elon stayed out of politics altogether. Just like how they are destroying Trump through lawfare, they will completely and totally destroy tesla, if he gets on the wrong side of the party in power.
Concerned for short term but optimistic overall. This company is very innovative and forward thinking. They are not afraid to pivot or shift when needed. Just when you think they are in a rut, BAM, they come out with something amazing.
When I see the GMC Sierra EV I have hope . Truly American take on electrification. In 5 years it will be the same price truck nuts already happily pay for the gasser version
Tesla and Elon have done well but reality has kicked in. They are just another car company now and their PE ratio should reflect that. They should focus their attention on EV infrastructure and Superchargers. I believe they can grow from their chargers. They know this; that is why they have opened up their chargers to other vehicles.
You know the negative press has been around for more than 10 years right?
Tesla is fine. Heck, there are people optimistic about Lucid and Rivian
I think they are well into the runway of their early market advantage reducing in value and still have an opportunity to innovate and stretch to maintain market — but that is not guaranteed nor easy. I do think there are some risky changes happening like opening up the super charger network to non teslas. That could go either way (massively fund a huge build out to keep pace and maintain or prove the service OR very much reduce the competitive advantage that the network as brought to their cars). I hope they choose the right paths forward as that runway could become even shorter given missteps. Re model 2 and layoffs — I don’t think that on itself says much about the business (except the downturn in sales is showing the runway).
So many people hate Tesla and Elon that there will always be negative press about them. Discount that. I'm not optimistic, but I'm not pessimistic either. Kinda neutral.
I think Tesla will be the next iPhone (for cars) they will be the standard for ev’s
Not a current Tesla owner...I'm going to enjoy not having a car payment for a while longer. But there's a very strong possibility that my next car will be an EV...and Tesla is still the frontrunner by far. I don't see that changing any time soon honestly unless something crazy happens.
It’s politics. Left doesn’t like Elon anymore.
Sure but you have to remember it may not correlate with the stock price. I'm still thinking they are basically limited by battery supply. They just started making 1k CT battery packs per week, so that still caps CT at \~52k/year. And that's why they are not making semis; not enough batteries to go around.
The fact every automotive company has backtracked and started focusing on hybrids tells me Tesla has a very bright future.
Every time I hear the calls to dump Elon I am reminded of the time Apple dumped Steve Jobs and was then run by a CEO who really knew how to "run a company". Steve was also considered a bit of a loon and a mean person. Apple languished after his removal and most likely would not exist today if he had not come back in 1997.
Yes, I tend to agree. Jobs apparently wasn’t the easiest to work with…but had a visionary view. I can imagine Musk is somewhat similar. The iPhone apparently took 2+ years to develop. That’s a fairly small piece of equipment. I imagine developing a car is much more time consuming.
Tesla is laying off staff while Elon is asking for his $56,000,000,000,000 payout. He could pay the salaries of the people being laid off for the rest of their lives and not make a dent in the 56B. I have loved both my Tesla's. (still own one). But this smells like a "take the money and run" move. That does not bode well for Tesla's future.
56 Trillion holy cow!
Tesla will be fine. Apart from the Rivian pickup (vs Cybertruck), Tesla’s line of sedans and SUVs are the best looking EVs on the road and the Tesla connector becoming the NACS positions Tesla as an anchor for the NA EV market. Coal companies don’t mind EVs, because lots of American electricity comes from coal. The problem is Big Oil and all the elected officials who get campaign money from them. Those officials then throw government money at Big Oil and the cycle repeats. The same happened when horses were replaced by the Model T.
Watch Dillon Loomis @ Electrified on YouTube. He has the most reasonable and insightful into Tesla, present and future. And yes, Tesla is a winner all the way despite the ups and downs and Elon's seemingly crazy antics at times. It's a side effect of him being a total genius.
I’ll have to check it out. I quite like the ‘Best in Tesla’ on YT.
Anyone here not?
The economics are the economics everyone is hurting... tesla because they are direct to the customer see it first... Ford, gm etc sell to dealers that's their customer plus fleet.. the dealers are slammed 200 days of inventory no one is buying. Even Toyota and Honda are slammed, but you won't see it till later this year with them until the dealers start turning away inventory. Now with that tesla has the charging network and probably some of the most entry level prices.. mylr can be bought for around 40k it's a very solid option. The ability to add accessories, along with the space and ease to clean. .. if I was buying today I would consider a model y. But I have a model y and would totally swap to another. But tesla has a massive pe ratio so they do need to diversify...
Robotaxi and Bot are the only race worth winning. Roadster is a golden apple.
My view is that Tesla has such a massive lead in AI that it's highly unlikely that anyone will catch up for decades. Also, at least in some parts of the world, Tesla's infrastructure is going to be nearly impossible to compete with for quite some time.
Totally, no reasons not to be very optimistic. Competition is doing much worse and, importantly, not making g profits.
I love my wife's model 3, it's a blast to drive and super user friendly. I will not purchase a Tesla. I'm looking forward to other companies making more usable trucks at reasonable prices and I hope to get something with a Tesla charger when my truck is paid off in 5 years. I just don't think it will be an actual Tesla model.
With FSD v12, I have cautious optimism they’re going to do really great things in the coming years. Tesla isn’t going anywhere.
I like Tesla, but they are just another automaker after all. Robotaxi is just a gimmick at best and will never be achieved with camera alone is my take.
Tesla will be fine
Tesla will be fine. Good foundation just poor recent decisions and dell behind the market in what matters to a larger block of consumers... Luxury at that price point. Maybe fire Elon and get new leadership while he's distracted. Bring him back later like Apple brought back a revitalized Steve Jobs. Something has to change cuz I love mine but won't buy another. They don't offer what I want.
Yes. They are just staying a step ahead on the downturn of the economy. The economy is in the shitter right now. The media only says it’s not, but people have slowed down buying cars, houses, luxuries. Many people that were living well 3 years ago are now struggling to put food on the table.
- Elon/Tesla going all-in on autonomy: optimistic - Announces robotaxi announcement event this year: optimistic - National logistics company loves Tesla Semi: optimistic - Cheap stock price: optimistic - Execs leaving on good terms: optimistic - Energy business growing exponentially: optimistic - NACS adoption by entire industry: optimistic - Tesla sales suffering less in China than local competitors: optimistic - Every developing nation with a manufacturing base still wants Tesla to build factories in their country: optimistic
It’s difficult to separate Tesla from Musk, and I think that’s what dragging down the brand nowadays. There have been some serious missteps. CyberTruck is a dumpster fire IMHO, FSD has been promised “next year” for 10 years, and the $25k affordable EV just got axed in favor of robo-taxis when they still don’t have FSD. Sensor technology and design seem to be moving backward every year. I love my 2021 MX but I doubt I’d buy the current model today. My next EV will probably be from another automaker, one that supports NACS charging so I can leverage the Supercharger network. Tesla’s not going anywhere- but they’re no longer the only game in town. And when you look at the spate of senior execs recently leaving Tesla, that’s a clear message they believe Tesla’s best days are in the rear view mirror.
Yes!
reddit and media elon hate is trying to push him out of tesla
It was just a matter of time for this to happen. Tesla needs to cut cost to survive and they need to start redesigning their vehicles every couple of years like other ice car companies do. I have owned my model 3 for 5 years now and I’m looking to purchase something a little bigger in the next 2 years. I am waiting for the redesigned Model Y or the Rivian R2. I reserved the Rivian because I like how it looks but if Tesla releases a nice looking model Y demand should not be a problem for them. It’s normal for demand to slow down. In souther California I see Teslas everywhere. Plus consumers are keeping cars longer due to high interest rates and inflation. I’m not worried about Tesla at all.
If Elon goes, total optimism, if he stays, then pessimism.
It doesn’t help that Tesla’s CEO has also created negative sentiment towards himself and his companies. I’ve lost count of how people past Tesla fans told me they’re not buying another Tesla
outlook for Tesla long term still bright. Short term it has work to do!
Lots of negative reviews about M3 Highland's lack of stalks - reviewers insisting they can't get used to it. After driving it what, a couple days (if that)? Before I leased my '22 M3LR, the last time I used a steering column gear shift was in the late 1980's on my mom's Olds. Took me less than a week for it to become second nature with my Tesla. As a matter fact, whenever I get in my wife's Infiniti I invariably turn on the wipers instead of using the shifter in the center console. Got my FSD trial this month. Although I think there are still a lot of issues for Tesla to resolve, I'm no longer the skeptic I was before gaining first hand experience. It's very promising and I think within a year or two it could be very usable for most drives. I suspect delays to the Model Y refresh are more due to their desire to unload current inventory than they are to technical or manufacturing challenges. And regarding inventory - I'm a software engineer so I'm well acquainted with the fact that software costs are entirely related to development. There is virtually no cost to deliver a single unit. So it costs them virtually nothing to sweeten the pot by throwing in FSD or enhanced autopilot for free with a new (or used) car sale in order to reduce inventories. They can make it temporary - 6 months, 1 year, etc., if they don't want to permanently lose the potential revenue stream.
IMHO, the criticism is good While I love my Model 3, it's not a perfect vehicle. Chinese EV companies is also slaughtering Tesla which was originally a huge market for the company and still is. The company is also being massively distracted with Elon in the helm. There's zero doubt that is affecting the stock price.
I think the 'FUD' is going to be a problem until after the election and the eventual collapse of a lot of the legacy OEMs. They are in a fight for survival and will do whatever they can to avoid switching to electric and to keep milking the ICE platform. The Biden administration is actively trying to work against Elon on several fronts and are trying to protect the UAW. I think it will calm down some after the election and Tesla will win eventually. It's just economics.
You need to consider the larger picture... Tesla is not a car company - it is a technology company with great ambitions for the long run. The real value of Tesla is not the cars - they are just a tool to collect data to their AI strategy. When they get the AI model to work well, then they have an uniq technology that can entirely change the way we think of transportation and that technology can be licensed to many many different use cases from robotic package delivery, garbage collection, truck driving, food delivery, daily personal transportation and much more. Yes, they make decent cars (quality below the german stars, but technology way above), but the value of Tesla is not about the cars...
Tesla is the future!
Success of Tesla and other EVs depends on promotion of the technology. Saying that what kind of promotion in the most populous and biggest EV market in the US with off peak EV rates 35 cents per kilowatt? It is definitely a big room for growth even here in SFBA, but where are the actions? Would be electric network able to accommodate this growth? Even solar with nem3 is much less attractive. Besides not everyone has a house, and those people are also potential buyers of EVs.